# Recap 2023 cohorts transcripts ## Cohort 1 00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:05.060 good morning good afternoon good evening 00:00:05.060 --> 00:00:08.359 Wherever You Are 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:13.760 One Planet many time zones 00:00:15.540 --> 00:00:18.119 okay can you hear me oh something's 00:00:18.119 --> 00:00:21.140 wrong here let's see 00:00:22.380 --> 00:00:24.980 um all right so it's open kind of open 00:00:24.980 --> 00:00:28.640 conversation session 00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:33.899 Holly did you cut your hair 00:00:33.899 --> 00:00:35.040 oh 00:00:35.040 --> 00:00:38.280 it looked like you had a real boycott 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:40.379 which it was cool that would have been 00:00:40.379 --> 00:00:41.700 cool but 00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:45.920 um okay sorry get distracted 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.180 um so we have two questions two prompts 00:00:48.180 --> 00:00:50.059 and we could do this 00:00:50.059 --> 00:00:52.680 uh in 00:00:52.680 --> 00:00:54.840 um just one session or we could have 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:56.640 maybe we should have breakout groups and 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.079 see one two three four 00:00:58.079 --> 00:00:59.640 three four seven eight nine 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.280 and maybe we could have two breakout 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.140 groups 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:06.060 and 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.060 let's see and 00:01:09.060 --> 00:01:11.100 we'll mix up who you're with the second 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:13.020 time okay 00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:16.020 um and or I'll just let the computer do 00:01:16.020 --> 00:01:18.000 it it'll be somewhat mixed up or 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.420 something like that but we're gonna have 00:01:21.420 --> 00:01:24.180 two questions and when you go on your 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.220 first group 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:29.580 okay I know how to do it okay 00:01:29.580 --> 00:01:30.900 um 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:34.380 there's two questions so when we first 00:01:34.380 --> 00:01:36.960 break out we you choose which question 00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:38.700 you want to talk about okay in your 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:40.140 group 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:41.880 and then 00:01:41.880 --> 00:01:45.119 um when we come back we'll 00:01:45.119 --> 00:01:47.820 we'll make it so that you go in one room 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:49.560 if you want to tell about this question 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:51.119 you go in the other room it throws away 00:01:51.119 --> 00:01:53.159 that question so you will be in groups 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:55.619 that talked about both questions does 00:01:55.619 --> 00:01:56.880 that make sense 00:01:56.880 --> 00:01:59.640 all right so I won't assign the question 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:01.380 to the first group you just feel like 00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:02.700 what does that group want to talk about 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:05.159 but you'll get a chance to be with a 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:06.659 group that wants to talk about the other 00:02:06.659 --> 00:02:08.759 question in the second half 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:10.679 all right because one's kind of an 00:02:10.679 --> 00:02:12.120 intellectual 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.840 um 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:15.720 lens and one is more of a feeling lens 00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:20.099 so uh that's what it's the same question 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:22.680 from these two different lenses okay so 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:23.760 I'm good 00:02:23.760 --> 00:02:27.180 all right so the two questions are what 00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:30.060 is new in a new theory of the body 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.700 so that's kind of the 00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:35.220 intellectual or propositional question 00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:37.739 what is new in the new theory of the 00:02:37.739 --> 00:02:39.980 body 00:02:43.440 --> 00:02:45.660 thank you 00:02:45.660 --> 00:02:48.239 the second question is how do you relate 00:02:48.239 --> 00:02:52.680 to your body or bodies differently now 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.959 Samuel said something wonderful about 00:02:54.959 --> 00:02:58.140 the course on Twitter about how much how 00:02:58.140 --> 00:03:00.780 different it is when 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:03.780 feels like a child in his body again 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:05.580 so it made me think of asking this 00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:07.739 question so you see that they're really 00:03:07.739 --> 00:03:10.379 two different lenses 00:03:10.379 --> 00:03:12.440 um 00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:14.040 and 00:03:14.040 --> 00:03:16.260 um yeah could you say the second 00:03:16.260 --> 00:03:18.959 question again I missed it yeah how do 00:03:18.959 --> 00:03:22.500 you relate to your body core bodies in 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:26.360 general uh differently now 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.060 and obviously there's overlap 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:41.099 um but in the first question we kind of 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:43.580 want to have 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:48.440 material for the the essay 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.239 also does that make sense 00:03:51.239 --> 00:03:54.239 okay so if everybody takes the same one 00:03:54.239 --> 00:03:56.580 then when you go back everybody can take 00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:59.819 we can just have the same groups uh 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:02.659 force them 00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:05.340 uh in some way to do the other thing 00:04:05.340 --> 00:04:07.140 okay 00:04:07.140 --> 00:04:07.799 um 00:04:07.799 --> 00:04:10.640 let's see 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:16.620 oh I think I'll do three three okay 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:20.220 that's good and 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.759 absolutely cool all right good 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.400 uh I'm gonna move this person John are 00:04:29.400 --> 00:04:33.500 you real are you here here 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:38.040 well I didn't realize uh so I wasn't 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.199 prepared and I've got my day lined out 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.380 so okay so I'm gonna 00:04:43.380 --> 00:04:46.080 yeah don't add me yeah you know I'm glad 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:48.120 you but I'm gonna add a fourth one of 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.100 the rooms after four people and I'll put 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:51.720 the fourth person 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:53.280 in 00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:54.300 um 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:58.139 uh I'll put the fourth person in with 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:01.500 you so that but I want this I don't want 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:03.000 this to happen either 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:07.560 and what are their instructions the 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.060 people okay all right so 00:05:14.820 --> 00:05:17.479 it's a person 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:22.199 uh this person 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.560 to that room whereas and then John's 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:27.060 gonna have 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:30.360 the fourth person not these guys so 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:31.680 okay 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:33.180 there 00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:35.340 all right so John's in a room with four 00:05:35.340 --> 00:05:36.900 people because there's one room who has 00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:38.520 four people but he's not might not be 00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:39.960 able to participate so it's actually 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:43.560 more balanced out now 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.380 um so let's do uh 00:05:46.380 --> 00:05:48.780 let's do 45 minutes on the first one and 00:05:48.780 --> 00:05:52.440 we'll do a shorter one on the second one 00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:55.500 um yeah and you can go back and forth 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.479 between the questions obviously this is 00:05:57.479 --> 00:06:00.180 not real rules okay enjoy your company 00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:03.020 enjoy your conversation 00:06:26.479 --> 00:06:30.300 so Brian the last the last edit you sent 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:32.759 me I don't even know which one it is 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:37.319 oh okay I I didn't know 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.259 I'm sorry I hope you understand I don't 00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:42.360 sit here doing this I know they're good 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.539 if they pop out you know but I that one 00:06:45.539 --> 00:06:47.940 I I read it I'm like well I could have 00:06:47.940 --> 00:06:48.780 been 00:06:48.780 --> 00:06:51.300 you know I get into these zones and I 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:54.060 start writing things and and it can be 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:57.240 powerful but like I don't even know what 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.160 the hell this old one was cute because 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:00.840 it could be that or it could be that so 00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:04.080 I just left it done once I changed yeah 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:07.259 and that word inimical 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.139 that is I can't believe it doesn't mean 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:12.060 when I've always thought of me and I 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:13.680 always use that word 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.020 yeah I 00:07:16.020 --> 00:07:18.780 I and I you know I've looked I look up 00:07:18.780 --> 00:07:22.500 words I don't know yeah like really this 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:24.240 is the opposite of what I was trying to 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.180 say yeah it's like and then like like 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:28.259 yeah 00:07:28.259 --> 00:07:32.660 so you didn't correct one that I that I 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:36.539 included in the PS well you have to send 00:07:36.539 --> 00:07:38.580 that to me again then because it was 00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:39.419 like 00:07:39.419 --> 00:07:42.660 H low you know instead of I think it 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:46.860 can't tell if it's glow or flow or oh if 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:50.039 I don't find it I'll let you 00:07:50.039 --> 00:07:51.240 know okay 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:52.680 okay 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.620 so how'd we do you had some sneaky 00:07:55.620 --> 00:07:59.840 visitors come into your room some of you 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.560 um so my recording yeah all right so 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.720 what'd you come up with 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:12.800 I'll take notes 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:17.039 um aloha 00:08:17.039 --> 00:08:19.099 yeah 00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:22.080 I think maybe the sneaky visitors were 00:08:22.080 --> 00:08:24.860 here all along 00:08:38.219 --> 00:08:40.860 is that Zoe's mom 00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:44.700 yeah that's my mom hello nice to see you 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:47.640 you couldn't tell you look alike 00:08:47.640 --> 00:08:50.580 sorry I said you look like each other if 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:53.220 you if you changed glasses 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:56.820 all right we hardly know who was who 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:00.440 watched this watch the transformation 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:09.600 she looks more like her dad I think 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.800 really 00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:14.600 he looks more like her dad yeah 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:18.360 all right yeah 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.720 go ahead Atlas was saying I I've not 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.380 visited before so it's like it's always 00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:28.440 just introducing me to to what you're 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.080 doing and it sounds really really lovely 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.980 yeah yeah nice to meet you 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:36.360 yeah 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:37.620 just 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:39.660 crazy way we meet each other okay what'd 00:09:39.660 --> 00:09:41.040 you guys talk about 00:09:41.040 --> 00:09:43.500 did you it's okay if you just talk about 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.399 something else but 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:57.839 I can say that Samuel I did 00:09:57.839 --> 00:09:59.519 um 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.800 see your comment on Twitter which 00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:04.680 created the second question how do you 00:10:04.680 --> 00:10:07.019 relate to your body in a different way 00:10:07.019 --> 00:10:08.040 now 00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:11.220 and that you were saying that and I 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:13.320 guess combined with Alexander technique 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:17.399 which is a great methodology that your 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.160 feeling more like a younger 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:23.899 child like a young person 00:10:25.140 --> 00:10:27.899 yeah yeah I was referencing this this 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.240 tweet uh I did like when I went when I 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:32.220 learned Alexander technique and there 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:33.959 was a moment where I really felt it so 00:10:33.959 --> 00:10:37.100 strongly and this was like 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:39.180 surprising shift 00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:41.279 and and I remember saying okay that 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.019 that's going to be my default that I 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:44.600 want I want that as my teeth forward 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:48.420 exactly and yeah and I just could remind 00:10:48.420 --> 00:10:50.660 it back to that uh 00:10:50.660 --> 00:10:54.420 now with this module the last module and 00:10:54.420 --> 00:10:58.320 just try to connect it in some ways uh 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.500 felt like yeah and just yeah just yeah I 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:03.720 mean this whole body knowledge makes it 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.700 even more like 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:06.660 um 00:11:06.660 --> 00:11:08.519 before that was just like expanding 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:11.720 awareness whatever it can mean 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.540 reflex awareness is all just a word but 00:11:15.540 --> 00:11:18.540 I know so much more about it yeah 00:11:18.540 --> 00:11:20.040 and 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:22.140 there was like there was another course 00:11:22.140 --> 00:11:24.180 that it was kind of technique and it was 00:11:24.180 --> 00:11:26.279 some practice and I felt like man this 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:27.360 is this is 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.880 I felt it there also too and this was 00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:32.760 just like connected out this way 00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:34.980 uh 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:37.440 yeah so I would say that you know 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.790 obviously 00:11:38.790 --> 00:11:41.860 [Music] 00:11:42.540 --> 00:11:47.459 but like when I when I was doing this 00:11:47.459 --> 00:11:49.860 you know it was like I had my practice 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:51.899 with the horses in nature and then I had 00:11:51.899 --> 00:11:53.760 my intellectual life and there was no 00:11:53.760 --> 00:11:56.100 Bridge it was just like bouncing back 00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:59.579 and forth and there was this sense that 00:11:59.579 --> 00:12:02.760 the embodied work yeah that's good but 00:12:02.760 --> 00:12:04.260 that's like 00:12:04.260 --> 00:12:05.940 you got to get over that you know 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:09.959 everything is is all the 00:12:09.959 --> 00:12:12.300 you know like the way you grow in 00:12:12.300 --> 00:12:14.579 developmental stage there is you get 00:12:14.579 --> 00:12:17.640 more and more sophisticated as a thinker 00:12:17.640 --> 00:12:22.920 in this this has this uh I think what 00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:24.660 you're saying or what I would add to it 00:12:24.660 --> 00:12:27.600 is is that now someone who also is 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.600 interested in 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.120 Concepts and and 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:34.260 um 00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:36.720 and all kinds of intellectual I mean we 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:37.920 all are 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:39.899 um we can see that there's a direct line 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:42.240 right down to the Bodywork you know it's 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:43.920 not like you do this and then you do 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:46.220 that or you do this so you can 00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:49.079 get your energy out so you can do that 00:12:49.079 --> 00:12:51.060 there there 00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:53.339 yeah they're one kind of 00:12:53.339 --> 00:12:56.100 it's more integrative so 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.160 um 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.399 I was talking to Jonathan Rossum of 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.440 perspectiva the other day and 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.300 and I was telling him how 00:13:08.579 --> 00:13:12.360 that makes a difference when people 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.120 are saying young people who were born in 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:19.260 the internet age the digital Nomads 00:13:19.260 --> 00:13:20.220 um 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:23.399 when they when when they realize that 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:25.320 rats consent you know other animal 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.600 animals can create simulations and then 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.100 rats can create hypothetical 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:30.899 environments in their sleep 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.600 are saying they just it's so meaningful 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.880 to them and he's like why 00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:38.639 and I'm like because 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.920 you don't feel like you just cut off 00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:42.720 like okay we're people we can run 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.420 simulations we live in a simulation 00:13:45.420 --> 00:13:48.660 there is nature we're destroying nature 00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:51.959 and you know and I was just saying just 00:13:51.959 --> 00:13:56.779 people knowing that it makes a big deal 00:13:56.880 --> 00:14:00.420 then you can get curious like wow how 00:14:00.420 --> 00:14:03.839 can I figure out like 00:14:03.839 --> 00:14:05.639 you know use that term like Michael 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:07.680 Levin does this how can I use that term 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.500 and not it's like Elon Musk we're just 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:13.079 in a simulation anyways or the Zen we 00:14:13.079 --> 00:14:14.820 don't even mean it like the Zen thing 00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:17.519 like we don't mean that 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.740 it's a simulation and there's nothing 00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:20.760 real 00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:24.660 that's not what we mean we we mean 00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:28.560 something else so anyways 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:35.700 um 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:37.079 so 00:14:37.079 --> 00:14:39.000 this is what I shared in the group I 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.940 haven't I've been involved 00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:45.480 um with um my son who's fixing up a 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:46.199 house 00:14:46.199 --> 00:14:48.480 but more than that and so so I've been 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.180 drawn physically I've been drawn to be 00:14:51.180 --> 00:14:54.899 quite engaged and less 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.019 um I don't have I don't have a space to 00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:00.480 read right now and I don't have space to 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.220 be in in here as much as as as as as 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:06.000 following like 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.120 this much larger sense of energy moving 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.620 and participating 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:13.579 and um 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.339 a question I wanted to answer but here's 00:15:17.339 --> 00:15:19.699 the answer 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.260 um 00:15:22.260 --> 00:15:25.019 and so I thought okay I haven't been 00:15:25.019 --> 00:15:26.760 part of the pop-up 00:15:26.760 --> 00:15:30.540 and as much as I would like and 00:15:30.540 --> 00:15:31.320 um 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.480 but the feeling is 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.160 in the body 00:15:35.160 --> 00:15:40.019 that um that all of that that's 00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:42.660 that's it's all like my body is like 00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:45.720 this huge antenna or something and that 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:47.880 and that it's 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:50.880 and the trusting 00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:51.779 um 00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:55.380 where I'm drawn and and being as wide 00:15:55.380 --> 00:15:58.019 open as I can in that that that's that 00:15:58.019 --> 00:15:59.880 that's part of it and that I'm part of 00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:05.060 this uh unfolding and um 00:16:07.079 --> 00:16:08.519 I don't know there was something that 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.199 you said earlier that both of you said 00:16:10.199 --> 00:16:14.240 that I wanted to respond to but um 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.880 and it feels like that that like the the 00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:20.459 locus 00:16:20.459 --> 00:16:22.920 of 00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:25.260 understanding 00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:30.560 and the locus of New Life 00:16:32.579 --> 00:16:35.880 is all over all over the place 00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:38.459 and it's not 00:16:38.459 --> 00:16:40.980 uh it doesn't come from 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:43.019 figuring anything out 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:47.540 that's way too slow 00:16:47.540 --> 00:16:51.660 but but it comes from 00:16:51.660 --> 00:16:53.720 um 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:59.100 being as available as I possibly can 00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:01.100 um 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:04.140 you know to 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.839 to what's moving me and then having the 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.660 understanding 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:12.620 to trust that 00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:17.339 um which is which is developed 00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:21.199 it isn't I don't arrive at that 00:17:21.199 --> 00:17:24.360 just from experience experience sort of 00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:25.980 has to be 00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:26.880 um 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.880 questions 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:34.679 it's like if you were playing incredibly 00:17:34.679 --> 00:17:36.960 beautiful music 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.500 and you're very very skilled 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.500 so that the music itself 00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:47.760 can come through your hands 00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:48.720 um 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.000 your hands are part of it but they're 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.100 but they're skilled enough to get out of 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:55.400 the way 00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:59.580 I don't know if I said anything no no 00:17:59.580 --> 00:18:01.500 you know dude I've had this recurring 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:03.179 dream 00:18:03.179 --> 00:18:05.700 and I've never been actually able to do 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.940 it well in real life and that is 00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.919 I'm this pianist 00:18:10.919 --> 00:18:16.700 and it's kind of like uh what's his name 00:18:19.860 --> 00:18:22.740 he did lausanne and Bremen he's this 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:26.360 jazz pianist he's amazing 00:18:29.780 --> 00:18:33.299 anyways we're like you just speak 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:35.100 directly through the playing the piano 00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:39.360 you know and when I've tried to do that 00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:40.620 um 00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:42.539 you know not in front of an audience or 00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:45.840 anything I I find I get into I get into 00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.960 habits that I've learned it's very hard 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:55.260 to like know the piano so well that 00:18:57.299 --> 00:19:00.780 there's as much character in what you're 00:19:00.780 --> 00:19:03.120 playing as 00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:05.820 is arising in your 00:19:05.820 --> 00:19:07.740 yeah 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:09.740 um 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:22.200 a kind of similar when you do extratic 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.559 Dance I mean like you you also 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.059 have to find yourself in repeated 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:29.100 patterns and then you see your breakout 00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:31.140 but then it's still kind of like a 00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:33.360 pattern 00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:36.480 and it's really 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.240 feel like there's uh there's a 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.760 completely new happening it's 00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:44.419 so easy 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.360 oh we're I'm still unmuted 00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:02.480 um 00:20:04.620 --> 00:20:08.520 we spent our breakout mostly talking 00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:10.020 about 00:20:10.020 --> 00:20:13.020 the second all the way we were all 00:20:13.020 --> 00:20:15.660 talking about the second question 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:19.400 and it was really 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.000 from my 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.580 Viewpoint intimate 00:20:26.580 --> 00:20:28.620 rather than 00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:31.500 conceptual 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:35.000 and um 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.480 I think that that's symbolic of 2023 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.280 pop-up 00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:42.960 that we've 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:46.320 come into relationship 00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:49.820 in a clearer 00:20:49.820 --> 00:20:53.580 caring way with each other trying to 00:20:53.580 --> 00:20:55.440 figure out this thing called the new 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.360 theory of the body 00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.160 that it's 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.160 through 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.880 our bodies and we spent very little time 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.240 talking about 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.900 relating to bodies differently 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:15.200 it seemed 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.720 our focused in the breakout was more 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.840 about how we relate to our bodies 00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:24.799 differently 00:21:25.919 --> 00:21:30.500 and my sense is that 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.980 we need to dig a Little Deeper to get to 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.240 the first question 00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:40.260 how now 00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:44.400 are we sensing a new Theory of the body 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.720 through how we relate to 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.059 the world differently 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:55.260 other bodies human non-human visible not 00:21:55.260 --> 00:21:56.760 visible 00:21:56.760 --> 00:21:59.940 that was my clip about new people 00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.340 entering the rooms maybe they're here 00:22:02.340 --> 00:22:05.159 you know the invisible bodies maybe 00:22:05.159 --> 00:22:08.640 there's something else here you know so 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:09.900 um 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:12.179 I think that that the two questions 00:22:12.179 --> 00:22:14.480 aren't separate I think they're really 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:18.440 dovetailed into each other and there is 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:21.840 a beauty in 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:26.000 starting at home where you're sitting 00:22:28.620 --> 00:22:32.700 and there's there's a a spaciousness 00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:34.320 that I feel 00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:38.220 In My World Views this year in the 00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:40.880 pop-up School 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.559 my experience has been slightly 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.900 different from what David was describing 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.900 and that I've been noticing that I'm 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.200 actually drawing on the world around me 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.600 to know my own body better 00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:29.520 and so 00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:32.159 um that there's a choice to 00:23:32.159 --> 00:23:34.620 look around me and 00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:37.440 tend to 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.000 the world 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.360 which has a lot of Stillness and dynamic 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:45.179 movement in it 00:23:45.179 --> 00:23:46.919 and to see how that is actually 00:23:46.919 --> 00:23:49.140 reflecting 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.039 what's here 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.340 the whole thing is like a 00:24:06.659 --> 00:24:09.059 yeah 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:11.039 they also came to the conclusion in our 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.320 group which was great that the pop-up 00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:15.840 school is actually a rehab center for to 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:17.840 rehab all the malware so we're all 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:21.360 addicts getting help 00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:25.380 no the malware goes very deep you know 00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:26.940 um 00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:28.320 which is 00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:31.559 uh yeah 00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:34.620 it's um 00:24:34.620 --> 00:24:38.220 that's the actual you know I get what 00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:41.340 David is saying it the we're using our 00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:45.120 bodies more and interpreting less but 00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:47.340 people have also been very good at being 00:24:47.340 --> 00:24:52.100 able to notice and let go of the malware 00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:54.780 uh even when there's nothing to put it 00:24:54.780 --> 00:24:57.780 in its place like sometimes we have like 00:24:57.780 --> 00:25:00.120 little theories you can hold on to or 00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:03.900 but even when we had like 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.059 some of these sessions where we come to 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:07.860 a conclusion and it's really cool then 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:09.840 the next session is fresh again it's not 00:25:09.840 --> 00:25:14.100 like we don't like latch on to 00:25:14.100 --> 00:25:16.100 um 00:25:16.860 --> 00:25:19.200 and then make it all about what that 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:20.820 great Insight that we experience 00:25:20.820 --> 00:25:22.799 together at the time before which is 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.380 what communities usually do and then 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:27.299 they latch onto it and become a cult or 00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:29.520 they have a doc you know it becomes the 00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:32.100 Dogma the Dharma so 00:25:32.100 --> 00:25:34.140 um yeah so 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:36.419 it's not 00:25:36.419 --> 00:25:40.320 it's not easy to so they call a hand in 00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.360 hand so the more everybody trusted each 00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:44.820 other the less 00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:47.940 scary it is to 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:50.039 actually allow some of the deep 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:51.779 criticisms of some of the things you 00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:56.340 really love or spent your time doing 00:25:56.340 --> 00:25:59.039 um allow that to dissolve 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.779 um 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:04.080 it's not easy you know it's not 00:26:04.080 --> 00:26:07.940 it's not easy and 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.279 there's something going on where you you 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.679 you know that the purpose of the pop-up 00:26:13.679 --> 00:26:17.039 school is to be not contracted 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.140 but a lot of the 00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:22.620 Journey you know you you go through 00:26:22.620 --> 00:26:26.039 these contracted states that are part of 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.740 the 00:26:27.740 --> 00:26:31.980 attacking the mental malware 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:33.960 um not some you know David's going like 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.600 this you you all are pretty good but if 00:26:36.600 --> 00:26:39.539 you remember early on it's a lot it's a 00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:42.440 lot harder because 00:26:52.320 --> 00:26:54.659 and even like our new theory of the body 00:26:54.659 --> 00:26:55.940 is more of a 00:26:55.940 --> 00:26:57.600 [Music] 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:01.260 a handbook for for going through a 00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:03.539 journey then 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:05.640 creating an actual 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.500 you know they're just like the Alexandra 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:09.000 technique it's 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.400 when you're teaching it yeah you have in 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:13.860 qigong's the same way you describe 00:27:13.860 --> 00:27:15.900 things in certain ways and you have 00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:19.260 ideas and stuff but it's really just the 00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:22.200 physical Journey that uh 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.140 is you know 99.9 of everything 00:28:01.679 --> 00:28:05.419 so we um 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.240 I'm not sure we did a great job of of 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.940 deciding to answer one or two in our 00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:13.559 group we 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:18.179 we so we I think we focused on 00:28:18.179 --> 00:28:19.440 you know 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.960 the how we relate to our own our bodies 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.179 but we but we also 00:28:24.179 --> 00:28:26.520 drifted into 00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:28.500 question number one 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:30.539 you know the 00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:33.840 you know for me the the 00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:36.840 I forget where where I where you wrote 00:28:36.840 --> 00:28:39.240 it but you talked about the bee in the 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.940 city being brought out to the 00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:46.620 Countryside and and that disorientation 00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:49.220 of of 00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:53.600 re connecting with their beingness and 00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:57.200 that toggle 00:28:57.659 --> 00:28:59.640 um 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.380 of you know 00:29:04.320 --> 00:29:07.919 in in in in in that in that for at least 00:29:07.919 --> 00:29:11.100 for me it was like oh you know and and 00:29:11.100 --> 00:29:13.559 maybe this is combining some of the the 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:18.059 before Socrates work you know that that 00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:21.059 picturing 00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:27.799 a human human before language and before 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:32.539 um and and then not not not not uh 00:29:32.539 --> 00:29:36.120 recognizing that that that 00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:39.059 in toggling to this 00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:43.940 humanness you know didn't didn't 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.260 um 00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:48.720 you know and Christopher Alexander came 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:49.500 up 00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:51.659 um in our group as well something that 00:29:51.659 --> 00:29:52.559 that 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.960 a quote that that you'd used 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.260 you know and thinking about his work and 00:29:58.260 --> 00:30:01.380 you know he still built he still shaped 00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:06.320 the landscape he built buildings and and 00:30:06.360 --> 00:30:07.140 um 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:11.120 so not thinking that 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:13.020 um 00:30:13.020 --> 00:30:15.899 it was just that that toggle of being 00:30:15.899 --> 00:30:20.220 disoriented and reoriented and that this 00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:21.960 has been this 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.120 Journey for me in answering that 00:30:24.120 --> 00:30:26.220 question of how I relate to the bot you 00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:26.940 know 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.700 this to my body differently and 00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:34.380 continuing to experience that 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:36.360 um 00:30:36.360 --> 00:30:41.360 in in this process this year and 00:30:57.899 --> 00:31:01.140 so in in in our group Holly Holly has 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:03.179 already spoken but Sandra was in it and 00:31:03.179 --> 00:31:06.659 Samuel came a little bit later and we we 00:31:06.659 --> 00:31:10.020 tackle the second question 00:31:10.020 --> 00:31:11.940 and but we quite quickly moved to 00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:15.360 describing bodies as well initially like 00:31:15.360 --> 00:31:18.679 bodies of people automatically 00:31:18.679 --> 00:31:21.799 coordinating crazy traffic situations 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.740 like cyclists and trans you know moving 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:28.559 really fast and somehow not crashing a 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.120 kind of 00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:31.500 um so we spoke about that and then 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:33.899 Sandra spoke we spoke about 00:31:33.899 --> 00:31:36.919 storm that Sandra had experienced and 00:31:36.919 --> 00:31:39.779 what nature was saying what that body 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:42.240 that what that nature was what what the 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.159 storm was saying what 00:31:44.159 --> 00:31:48.659 so body became nature quite quickly and 00:31:48.659 --> 00:31:52.020 body also became reality 00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:56.460 quite quickly in terms of 00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:58.799 I was talking about how there's a kind 00:31:58.799 --> 00:31:59.460 of 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:03.960 I keep getting saved by my reality 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.840 um a kind of Regulation 00:32:06.840 --> 00:32:07.620 um 00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:10.620 comes in and I think and 00:32:10.620 --> 00:32:13.380 when when I when I notice it it's it's 00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:15.659 it's there um and then I think Holly 00:32:15.659 --> 00:32:17.580 took it 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:19.799 a step further 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.700 into into 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:25.980 a kind of communication 00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:28.100 um 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:32.520 so these were all beautiful Reflections 00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:35.220 I thought on kind of quite personal 00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:38.279 Reflections on on how we related to it 00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.500 and then we you know we also brought in 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.899 a little bit of the the sadness for me 00:32:42.899 --> 00:32:45.120 anyway I felt the sadness of how often 00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:47.700 it's occluded you know we were talking 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:50.880 about the malware we wear malware as a 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.980 kind of sensory shroud right 00:32:55.860 --> 00:32:57.779 um and we become 00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:00.600 well we can't see but we also can't be 00:33:00.600 --> 00:33:03.000 found somehow we're not findable and we 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.460 were we had a little anecdote of birds 00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:08.580 screaming at us saying you know 00:33:08.580 --> 00:33:11.760 come on you know wake up you know you 00:33:11.760 --> 00:33:13.740 you can't see us you're not findable 00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.559 right now and how often maybe nature is 00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:18.539 saying that 00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:19.559 um 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.840 and you know that came with with with 00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:25.220 with some sadness 00:33:30.659 --> 00:33:34.080 new line I have a new line malware a 00:33:34.080 --> 00:33:35.580 little fashion line 00:33:35.580 --> 00:33:36.720 up 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.120 uh and you're not findable so these are 00:33:39.120 --> 00:33:41.720 all great 00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:46.159 yeah it goes to both ways right 00:34:04.159 --> 00:34:08.399 yeah there's something about that you're 00:34:08.399 --> 00:34:12.800 not findable which I mean I I get 00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:15.060 and 00:34:15.060 --> 00:34:19.440 it means immediately it uh it just drips 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.020 with sadness 00:34:21.020 --> 00:34:24.540 and yet I'm wondering if that's 00:34:24.540 --> 00:34:27.480 if it's I mean it's accurate on one 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:29.720 level 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.700 but the fact of saying it 00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:37.639 um 00:34:38.580 --> 00:34:42.560 if I can recognize the observation 00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:46.940 I'm immediately findable 00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:50.399 um 00:34:50.399 --> 00:34:53.339 and so it's 00:34:53.339 --> 00:34:57.540 I I don't have to imagine myself as the 00:34:57.540 --> 00:34:59.820 perpetrator or the victim of my 00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:02.540 separation 00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:08.119 because I'm immediately findable 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.160 even when I'm not 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.320 so would you say then it's more like I 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.200 think we understand the the move but 00:35:28.200 --> 00:35:30.839 it's more like we run we walk around as 00:35:30.839 --> 00:35:34.440 if we're not findable hence we're not we 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:36.960 go that's our Mantra we're not findable 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.320 but then it's immediately as you notice 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.300 the as if 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:46.079 then you get the switch that Rey Rey is 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.579 talking about 00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:50.300 correct 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.980 and and for me anyway to recognize that 00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:57.900 they're not I mean the presence of one 00:35:57.900 --> 00:36:01.339 is the presence of the other 00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:07.500 that actually pings back on the Good 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:09.660 Samaritan very much so I've been reading 00:36:09.660 --> 00:36:11.940 a lot of iliads because I'm going to be 00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.579 doing a course for parallax 00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:16.020 and 00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:18.140 um 00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:22.220 he talks about that how with the 00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:26.520 institutionalization of the service 00:36:26.520 --> 00:36:28.140 uh 00:36:28.140 --> 00:36:30.960 with the institutionalization of care 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.500 erad people of the need and the 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:36.900 possibility of discovering the other 00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:39.300 who's in need and they're no longer 00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:41.280 findable I mean that's a it's a 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.160 interesting thing to that 00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:48.140 um and he's and he says 00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:51.060 it creates a society where there's never 00:36:51.060 --> 00:36:54.720 enough Health Never Enough education and 00:36:54.720 --> 00:36:57.560 never enough money 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.680 so that that touches on uh something 00:37:10.680 --> 00:37:13.440 that came up for me right at the end of 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.900 our group 00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:17.339 um 00:37:17.339 --> 00:37:20.339 where 00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.420 um 00:37:23.640 --> 00:37:26.359 that was 00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:29.640 uh reminding myself of different 00:37:29.640 --> 00:37:32.700 um ways that I've experienced like the 00:37:32.700 --> 00:37:34.920 the the the curriculum of the course 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.000 over the over the years and what's 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.520 what's being integrated what's not how 00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:43.740 does it show up and 00:37:43.740 --> 00:37:46.640 um and then right at the end I came to 00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:50.579 uh thinking about my work and how I show 00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.740 up in work context 00:37:52.740 --> 00:37:56.220 and particularly 00:37:56.220 --> 00:37:58.500 like I often have to travel great 00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:02.400 distances to get to places that you know 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.140 where the work is 00:38:04.140 --> 00:38:05.880 and 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.880 um and a lot of the work is I guess 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.820 you could say it's framed around service 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:15.599 which means that there's an elaborate 00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:20.280 justification system that is sort of 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.640 built into it and it's so easy to get 00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:25.859 kind of 00:38:25.859 --> 00:38:28.040 um 00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:32.300 multiple visitors 00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:39.540 excuse 00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:41.540 me 00:38:47.700 --> 00:38:51.800 yeah go ahead and Marie 00:38:52.930 --> 00:38:53.520 [Music] 00:38:53.520 --> 00:38:54.140 um 00:38:54.140 --> 00:38:57.119 well it's a photo bombing you but just 00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.060 yeah 00:38:59.060 --> 00:39:02.940 which helps to make my point that when 00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:05.579 you know when there's elaborate 00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:08.280 justifications that are surrounding the 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.320 work that we do it makes it harder just 00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.740 to drop into being a body in space and 00:39:13.740 --> 00:39:16.020 showing up and letting that sort of all 00:39:16.020 --> 00:39:18.000 fall to the 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.599 to the Wayside and let it be enough to 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.000 just show up and 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.339 um uh 00:39:26.339 --> 00:39:29.460 uh and be present to what's what's 00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:34.400 actually there and uh what's possible 00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:38.160 so this is actually a big question for 00:39:38.160 --> 00:39:39.780 me because 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:42.359 you know I was at uh 00:39:42.359 --> 00:39:45.300 uh Symposium in Vermont and Greg 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.760 Enriquez was there I had occasion to 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.420 talk to him 00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:54.420 and we really tried to get on the same 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:56.540 page with this notion of justification 00:39:56.540 --> 00:40:00.000 and and 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.520 it was very frustrating you know because 00:40:02.520 --> 00:40:05.579 he was trying really hard 00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:09.240 um and and I was trying really hard and 00:40:09.240 --> 00:40:13.260 it was like two people having a zero 00:40:13.260 --> 00:40:16.079 communication literally like like 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.480 literally I just couldn't 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:21.200 like like 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.560 because 00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:29.940 everything I said he's he because he has 00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:33.180 this this model 00:40:33.180 --> 00:40:36.300 and then you have mine three is 00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:39.240 the justification system The Narrative 00:40:39.240 --> 00:40:41.040 and justification system 00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:43.800 so everything I said he was like well 00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.079 that's just justification but I was 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.500 trying to point to something that wasn't 00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:54.960 justification right and I I was not able 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:59.099 to say yes but 00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:02.280 we happen to be talking but we could 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.339 actually 00:41:04.339 --> 00:41:07.380 climb a mountain 00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:09.960 and something could happen right so 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.060 don't I know I'm justifying my position 00:41:12.060 --> 00:41:14.640 right now like I was in this Loop do you 00:41:14.640 --> 00:41:16.980 see what I'm saying because because we 00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:19.320 were talking about everything to him 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.200 nothing could Point outside of the 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:24.599 dialogical loop 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:27.000 and 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.220 you know I started with the animals 00:41:29.220 --> 00:41:31.619 consumerately went and then we got to 00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:35.040 the justification system for him 00:41:35.040 --> 00:41:37.740 it tops off you know the next thing for 00:41:37.740 --> 00:41:40.079 him is AI 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.260 Ai and it's an it's an emergent new 00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.660 level of mind 00:41:45.660 --> 00:41:49.579 and I thought wow like 00:41:52.339 --> 00:41:55.200 this it's so claustrophobic like you get 00:41:55.200 --> 00:41:57.960 to mind the type of Minds human have and 00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.660 it's all the justification system 00:42:00.660 --> 00:42:03.060 and then the only the only thing out is 00:42:03.060 --> 00:42:06.960 to level up is what they like to say and 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:13.380 now you have mind four which is a i 00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:15.720 interface with 00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:19.859 humans and I'm not 100 against AI 00:42:19.859 --> 00:42:22.020 interface with humans but you see how 00:42:22.020 --> 00:42:24.300 it's laid out in his mind that was just 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.400 not going to only accelerate the Justice 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.040 there's no orthogonal move 00:42:29.040 --> 00:42:32.220 like like there's no move to be like in 00:42:32.220 --> 00:42:34.760 your body and then use AI 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.260 cleverly like I said to rear back what 00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:39.839 if what if we used AI 00:42:39.839 --> 00:42:42.000 what if we invited AI into Collective 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.480 presidency 00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:47.220 because people get these hits and they 00:42:47.220 --> 00:42:50.460 they say a phrase and then they get 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:52.680 to stay in their body get too locked up 00:42:52.680 --> 00:42:54.780 and you can't talk 00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:57.119 now ai won't make much sense out of it 00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:58.619 but it can generate all kinds of 00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:00.359 gibberish and then you can get a hit 00:43:00.359 --> 00:43:03.000 like oh you know what I'm saying anyways 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.700 my point was is I'm not totally against 00:43:05.700 --> 00:43:09.200 AI but 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.240 the way it's set up is it's it's 00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:15.420 everything is jammed into this 00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:19.520 this ladder that keeps you know 00:43:19.520 --> 00:43:24.000 he asked me to weigh and watch his and 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.359 John's first two 00:43:26.359 --> 00:43:30.000 transcendental naturalism videos and 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.099 they just like yeah something's emerging 00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:34.319 we're leveling up like everything is 00:43:34.319 --> 00:43:37.079 just jammed in on top of all the malware 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.599 there's no way to get out there's no 00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.000 there's no exit 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.040 there's no exit 00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:45.720 in 00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:49.319 what they how they View 00:43:49.319 --> 00:43:51.119 the world 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:52.680 that we're just going to be more and 00:43:52.680 --> 00:43:56.900 more similar you know more and more yeah 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:00.780 I find it very 00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:03.480 frustrating because I can tell he's you 00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:06.119 know he's positively motivated to 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.500 understand 00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:11.040 sort of a little bit of a one-track mind 00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:13.700 there but 00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:18.420 it's like he you can he he has 00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:22.020 because I complained he did add he used 00:44:22.020 --> 00:44:23.760 to call it behavioral mind and now he 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:27.060 calls it animal mind not animal behavior 00:44:27.060 --> 00:44:29.579 which is a big improval 00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:30.900 sort of 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:33.540 but for him 00:44:33.540 --> 00:44:36.480 it's like it's one and done okay now but 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.339 now that's in our past 00:44:38.339 --> 00:44:40.500 we have that but now we have the you 00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:41.220 know 00:44:41.220 --> 00:44:45.119 and that's not the way I see it like 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.800 it's not one and done 00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:53.760 but the justification I've got to think 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.700 more about that because I wasn't able to 00:44:56.700 --> 00:44:58.380 make 00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:02.300 clear enough distinctions 00:45:06.839 --> 00:45:09.180 I did point out the difference between 00:45:09.180 --> 00:45:12.599 Barack Obama's Nobel Prize speech and 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:14.700 bios 00:45:14.700 --> 00:45:17.540 article 00:45:18.180 --> 00:45:19.859 but he would just see them as different 00:45:19.859 --> 00:45:22.680 justification systems 00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:25.280 like 00:45:25.319 --> 00:45:28.460 I don't know it's weird 00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:32.760 it sounds like you would have to do some 00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.400 sense breaking 00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.220 to even 00:45:38.220 --> 00:45:41.420 move through that 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.640 it's it's that point at which I think 00:45:53.640 --> 00:45:56.339 this pings back to 00:45:56.339 --> 00:45:58.859 David and that is 00:45:58.859 --> 00:46:01.740 when I'm talking to Greg it's just a 00:46:01.740 --> 00:46:04.680 language model and you can't no matter 00:46:04.680 --> 00:46:06.540 like in the pop-up school there's a 00:46:06.540 --> 00:46:08.579 point at which someone uses like this 00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:12.300 this what Ray just said it's not the 00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:14.640 words the words was doing something to 00:46:14.640 --> 00:46:17.099 our bodies right so that's real 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:19.980 communication like it's what happened 00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:23.280 between Holly and Claudia and Ray like 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.880 something actually 00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.060 moved us moved our innards right like 00:46:30.060 --> 00:46:32.460 and so that's how those words were 00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:34.380 functioning 00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:36.420 um and 00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:39.960 with talking to people like 00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:41.400 Greg 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:45.480 like every once in a while I'll drop in 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.660 and and he he got he melted he felt 00:46:48.660 --> 00:46:51.780 really sweet right but then once you use 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:56.240 language you can't use it as 00:46:58.319 --> 00:47:02.220 an action protocol you can't use it to 00:47:02.220 --> 00:47:04.079 switch 00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:08.280 ah I see you and I looking at it from 00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:11.880 different what perspectives okay now 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.040 we can talk about this whole other way 00:47:14.040 --> 00:47:16.859 of looking at it and it was impossible 00:47:16.859 --> 00:47:20.220 very you know it's the same challenge I 00:47:20.220 --> 00:47:22.200 had with verveiki when I talked to 00:47:22.200 --> 00:47:25.260 verbaki and Thomas duninger 00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:26.880 um 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:30.000 a little bit challenging with soyu that 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:32.339 that video interview wasn't great but 00:47:32.339 --> 00:47:35.880 I've had experiences with him that are 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.560 cut through language so 00:47:41.700 --> 00:47:44.339 so I'm I'm wondering if I'm using the 00:47:44.339 --> 00:47:46.800 term correctly or in the way that you 00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.079 intended it with the with my example 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.000 because 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:55.500 I think what I was trying to get at is 00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:59.460 the way in which like 00:47:59.460 --> 00:48:00.480 um 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.880 certain 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:04.440 um 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.160 uh 00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:13.079 in in my case so the work ends up being 00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.079 um it has certain language it's built 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:17.579 into 00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:22.619 um uh structures of bureaucracy and and 00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.079 um and that's how it's carried out and 00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:26.700 you have 00:48:26.700 --> 00:48:29.220 um all of these systems that sort of 00:48:29.220 --> 00:48:31.260 enable 00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:35.099 um the work to take place and and and 00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:37.800 and what I was more and more noticing is 00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:40.740 how everyone is relating to that that it 00:48:40.740 --> 00:48:43.380 ends up structuring what it is how we're 00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:45.960 in relationship with one another and 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:51.960 what is sort of lost are uh bodies in 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:53.160 space 00:48:53.160 --> 00:48:56.160 and and how 00:48:56.160 --> 00:48:59.819 um and and this relates to 00:48:59.819 --> 00:49:02.339 um a trajectory of my experience with 00:49:02.339 --> 00:49:05.460 this work where I had to there was a 00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:08.760 disintegration of the sense of what kind 00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.420 of impact is this work having or what is 00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:15.180 its intention or how best to do it and 00:49:15.180 --> 00:49:17.280 being preoccupied with those kind of 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.800 conversations and having those like 00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:23.160 completely fall away and just not have 00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:25.260 any grip at all anymore and not having 00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:27.680 anything to replace them for a long time 00:49:27.680 --> 00:49:30.900 and then coming to 00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:34.680 um this last trip I took was like just 00:49:34.680 --> 00:49:35.640 um 00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:39.000 being interested in 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.119 who's in the room and who am I and 00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:45.119 what's possible here yeah so those 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.119 systems those bureaucratic systems and 00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.540 you know and this is how he uses the 00:49:51.540 --> 00:49:53.700 term justification system so there's a 00:49:53.700 --> 00:49:56.720 law there's international law there's 00:49:56.720 --> 00:50:00.480 rules of in all these things 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.540 um are 00:50:02.540 --> 00:50:05.540 his claim would be that without 00:50:05.540 --> 00:50:08.400 justification systems you couldn't have 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.900 collective intelligence and I mean there 00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:15.060 is there look there's a great deal of 00:50:15.060 --> 00:50:17.819 practical truth to that you know and in 00:50:17.819 --> 00:50:21.300 terms of but everything is very holistic 00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:23.579 right because 00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:25.319 um 00:50:25.319 --> 00:50:28.560 nature doesn't have any uh justification 00:50:28.560 --> 00:50:30.720 systems and there's obviously it's 00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:32.880 collective intelligence right it's 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:37.079 integrated holistic intelligence and 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.619 um but once you everything we talk about 00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:42.180 is all 00:50:42.180 --> 00:50:44.400 Kings back to everything else once you 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.160 imagine a future of global Mass 00:50:47.160 --> 00:50:49.260 coordination of bodies 00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:51.599 then you need justification systems 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.160 because you need to standardize 00:50:53.160 --> 00:50:56.099 everything right and 00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:59.880 um so yes on a certain level 00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:01.940 um 00:51:02.520 --> 00:51:06.540 I'm not saying they're all bad but what 00:51:06.540 --> 00:51:09.119 happens in his model is eliminates the 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:11.280 possibility that 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:14.579 you can feel like but there's a way out 00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:16.980 there's a way of being that that doesn't 00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:19.440 have to be inside and then of course 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:22.380 your your dream is what if I could do 00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:25.380 the work that I want to do work and I 00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:26.220 could 00:51:26.220 --> 00:51:29.339 leverage this way of being that's not 00:51:29.339 --> 00:51:31.380 like that I mean and then you start to 00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:34.020 imagine it so clearly you can taste it 00:51:34.020 --> 00:51:35.119 and then it's 00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:36.740 profoundly 00:51:36.740 --> 00:51:39.420 impossible right because 00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:41.700 because of the density of the 00:51:41.700 --> 00:51:44.579 justification system so 00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:45.839 um 00:51:45.839 --> 00:51:47.700 uh 00:51:47.700 --> 00:51:50.099 yeah that tension is frustrating but 00:51:50.099 --> 00:51:52.800 it's also very interesting like to keep 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.839 going through the emotions and always be 00:51:54.839 --> 00:51:57.619 asking like 00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:00.540 you know that thing I talked about and 00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:02.640 the wisdom is like yeah this feels so 00:52:02.640 --> 00:52:04.859 claustrophobic and yet I know there's 00:52:04.859 --> 00:52:06.359 like a rule 00:52:06.359 --> 00:52:08.400 like a natural 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.760 law that there is enough space right for 00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.680 the light to get through so this 00:52:13.680 --> 00:52:17.119 interesting way to 00:52:22.380 --> 00:52:24.960 keep it in your face and keep asking the 00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.599 question you know 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.240 I love your expression the density of 00:52:30.240 --> 00:52:33.540 the justification systems and and it's 00:52:33.540 --> 00:52:36.359 as if once you're inside of that the 00:52:36.359 --> 00:52:39.839 only way through is born more elaborate 00:52:39.839 --> 00:52:42.960 and maybe more subtle justification 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.720 systems but they're not 00:52:45.720 --> 00:52:49.500 uh they're still staying within the 00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:53.640 Safety and Security of that density and 00:52:53.640 --> 00:52:56.220 what happens if we 00:52:56.220 --> 00:52:57.420 Trust 00:52:57.420 --> 00:53:00.140 that there's something that's more 00:53:00.140 --> 00:53:04.140 porous and something that's more alive 00:53:04.140 --> 00:53:06.420 and uh 00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:09.599 and one way that I am learning to 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:13.980 practice that is if it doesn't feel good 00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.359 it's not true 00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:21.660 and so then the question is what feels 00:53:21.660 --> 00:53:22.559 good 00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:24.240 what is true 00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:26.400 and to lift myself like yesterday I had 00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:28.859 a very reactive 00:53:28.859 --> 00:53:31.380 to something that wasn't true but I was 00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:33.000 engaging 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:36.599 at that level and there's no new space 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.480 in that so 00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:43.079 what is true I have to find a place 00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:45.359 where given that 00:53:45.359 --> 00:53:49.020 I can feel something new I can feel 00:53:49.020 --> 00:53:52.020 expansive 00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:52.680 um 00:53:52.680 --> 00:53:55.140 and I can feel 00:53:55.140 --> 00:53:58.200 um that I am not 00:53:58.200 --> 00:54:00.300 the source 00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:02.160 of the new 00:54:02.160 --> 00:54:05.940 but there is something that is 00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:09.140 um available 00:54:09.180 --> 00:54:11.240 um 00:54:11.700 --> 00:54:14.420 and um 00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:16.500 my response when you tell a story about 00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:21.000 this guy is anger and it's like it's 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.260 like 00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:25.260 um hubris it's like get off your 00:54:25.260 --> 00:54:29.460 freaking head you know and 00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:32.160 um and so I want to say that 00:54:32.160 --> 00:54:34.920 the other day 00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:36.839 I'm at David's house 00:54:36.839 --> 00:54:41.040 and these two young men came plumbers 00:54:41.040 --> 00:54:44.339 and they were glorious 00:54:44.339 --> 00:54:48.180 they just were beautiful and I said to 00:54:48.180 --> 00:54:49.260 them 00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:51.180 you are such 00:54:51.180 --> 00:54:54.720 beautiful men 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:58.040 and they had 00:54:58.740 --> 00:55:01.099 so much uh 00:55:01.099 --> 00:55:04.800 positivity and and uh 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.359 I don't know if I can recreate but 00:55:06.359 --> 00:55:10.380 they're just full of the life force of 00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:11.640 service 00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:15.900 and kindness and creativity and problem 00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:19.319 solving and it was so beautiful and 00:55:19.319 --> 00:55:21.300 humble 00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:24.180 and this young man Paul said nobody's 00:55:24.180 --> 00:55:27.000 ever said that to me before 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:31.680 it's like we've lost the robustness 00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:34.559 uh and the and the um 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.559 limitlessness 00:55:38.579 --> 00:55:40.680 of male 00:55:40.680 --> 00:55:43.579 prowess 00:55:44.180 --> 00:55:47.040 and male goodness 00:55:47.040 --> 00:55:48.820 in this 00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:49.020 [Music] 00:55:49.020 --> 00:55:51.020 um 00:55:51.720 --> 00:55:54.119 battle 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:57.119 to conquer 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:01.020 the mental territory in a way 00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:02.220 um 00:56:02.220 --> 00:56:04.680 and and 00:56:04.680 --> 00:56:09.000 it all feels doesn't feel good and so 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:12.359 what feels good is 00:56:12.359 --> 00:56:13.980 uh 00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:16.440 well I won't answer that question that's 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:20.720 an ongoing question laughs 00:56:21.540 --> 00:56:24.720 yeah so my my failure came yesterday to 00:56:24.720 --> 00:56:26.940 shoot the horses and he has a broken leg 00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:29.640 he's kind of 00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:32.280 hard luck guy but he has 00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:35.040 a helper who just started out with him a 00:56:35.040 --> 00:56:37.140 few months ago who had to do a lot of 00:56:37.140 --> 00:56:39.540 the work right and 00:56:39.540 --> 00:56:42.300 I noticed that in the 12 weeks that 00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.520 between when I saw him last time like 00:56:44.520 --> 00:56:48.180 how how how how good that kid had gotten 00:56:48.180 --> 00:56:50.579 you know and I and I told them it was 00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:54.020 the same thing like he 00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:57.119 he goes around showing horses for people 00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:58.920 I'm not rich but a lot of rich people 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:01.260 and they're just they're just peasants 00:57:01.260 --> 00:57:03.000 you know like they're just 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:06.500 because of this whole 00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:10.260 inflation we have we have this like 00:57:10.260 --> 00:57:14.099 secret ladder of values where this you 00:57:14.099 --> 00:57:15.900 know that's just that's just peasant 00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:20.040 work or something but I uh when you were 00:57:20.040 --> 00:57:23.599 saying this I got this 00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:27.300 um what came into me is another kind of 00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:28.859 integration of what we were talking 00:57:28.859 --> 00:57:31.200 about and that is when Marie was talking 00:57:31.200 --> 00:57:33.480 and we were talking about being dense 00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:36.599 and claustrophobic also you could have 00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:38.400 this thought experiment when you're in 00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:40.980 that situation of 00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:43.200 you know so it's very bureaucratic and 00:57:43.200 --> 00:57:44.940 you got to do all this stuff and then 00:57:44.940 --> 00:57:47.280 you could keep telling yourself but I'm 00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:51.180 findable like me Marie at this desk then 00:57:51.180 --> 00:57:52.500 that doesn't look like they're looking 00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:53.579 at me 00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:57.079 but if you just like but I am findable 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:00.720 and this can really help just shapeshift 00:58:00.720 --> 00:58:03.960 your posture or something you know where 00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:07.859 where and then someone is like oh that's 00:58:07.859 --> 00:58:10.319 not the lady who who shuffles paper 00:58:10.319 --> 00:58:14.940 that's Marie and that also is a is a and 00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:17.700 and and so you what the plumbers weren't 00:58:17.700 --> 00:58:21.059 doing that but they were surprised you 00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:22.619 know they were surprised that they were 00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:24.780 findable 00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:27.480 then you found them right so somehow 00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.240 this is all that cool little 00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:31.559 conversation 00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:34.200 I just want to say that that's a 00:58:34.200 --> 00:58:36.059 beautiful way of thinking about they 00:58:36.059 --> 00:58:38.640 didn't know they were findable and yet 00:58:38.640 --> 00:58:40.680 here they were 00:58:40.680 --> 00:58:41.640 um 00:58:41.640 --> 00:58:44.460 fixing the pipe 00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:46.920 for the washing machine that washes the 00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:50.160 clothes that was so 00:58:50.160 --> 00:58:51.660 uh 00:58:51.660 --> 00:58:53.520 um closed in 00:58:53.520 --> 00:58:56.000 uh with gunk 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.180 so so the work they did was to come 00:58:59.180 --> 00:59:02.460 clean the pipe so that the water could 00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:04.440 come through and the clothes could be 00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:09.480 clean it's such a beautiful metaphor of 00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:10.440 um 00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:13.440 yes we have to be awake to being 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:15.480 findable 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:18.240 but and uh 00:59:18.240 --> 00:59:20.040 maybe I don't know that's all I wanted 00:59:20.040 --> 00:59:22.799 to say you know what breaks my heart if 00:59:22.799 --> 00:59:27.180 I can expand on this is 00:59:27.180 --> 00:59:28.680 um 00:59:28.680 --> 00:59:31.260 like years ago I've been in the trades 00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:33.059 for a long time right in landscape 00:59:33.059 --> 00:59:35.339 construction hired a lot of years ago 00:59:35.339 --> 00:59:38.940 you would never see 00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:41.819 less than a two or three man crew fixing 00:59:41.819 --> 00:59:43.980 the telephone poles 00:59:43.980 --> 00:59:46.920 and now you see one guy in a truck 00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:49.260 I think that it breaks my heart all 00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:52.920 these traits like it's hard work and the 00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.740 and part of what is good about it is 00:59:55.740 --> 00:59:57.720 doing it with another person and it's 00:59:57.720 --> 01:00:01.260 jovion it's got this male like you said 01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:04.079 this young thing and when I see those 01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:06.900 guys like in the pouring rain 01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:09.180 because they have it's all automated in 01:00:09.180 --> 01:00:11.880 their own but it just it breaks my heart 01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:14.520 they spend all day alone 01:00:14.520 --> 01:00:17.599 it breaks my heart 01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:23.880 yeah Phoebe I don't know if this is part 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.640 of your experience but like as you were 01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:28.740 talking about those plumbers and 01:00:28.740 --> 01:00:30.780 revealing something in them you were 01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:33.000 helping reveal something already in the 01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:34.619 I almost get this since too at least 01:00:34.619 --> 01:00:36.299 when I've had similar experiences that 01:00:36.299 --> 01:00:39.240 something in you also gets revealed you 01:00:39.240 --> 01:00:40.740 know like it's 01:00:40.740 --> 01:00:43.980 it it moves and so it's beautiful 01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:45.480 because it draws something out in you as 01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:48.240 well to to notice that and to highlight 01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:50.540 that 01:00:52.319 --> 01:00:54.359 well I'll be more 01:00:54.359 --> 01:00:58.140 transparent I was so 01:00:58.140 --> 01:01:01.799 odd by the beauty of these men and this 01:01:01.799 --> 01:01:03.660 one in particular one was named Luke and 01:01:03.660 --> 01:01:06.180 one was named Paul talk about biblical 01:01:06.180 --> 01:01:10.500 names and I was talking to Paul 01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:12.839 and the more I 01:01:12.839 --> 01:01:16.260 I just felt the hunger for being 01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:18.960 findable to use that language and the 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.859 more I felt him the more findable he 01:01:22.859 --> 01:01:27.000 became and the and more real it was it 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.740 was uh and his own then he started 01:01:28.740 --> 01:01:29.819 talking about his own meditation 01:01:29.819 --> 01:01:33.240 practice and and going to Indonesia to 01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:36.240 go surfing and but it was very tender 01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:38.520 and very beautiful and at the same time 01:01:38.520 --> 01:01:41.880 I just felt this streaming energy coming 01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:43.619 through me 01:01:43.619 --> 01:01:45.960 um that uh 01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.220 uh I I was such Grace that 01:01:50.220 --> 01:01:53.119 that I could 01:01:54.660 --> 01:01:56.780 um 01:01:59.520 --> 01:02:03.780 be in this dream of findability 01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:07.200 of goodness of 01:02:07.200 --> 01:02:08.880 care and 01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:10.980 seeing 01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:13.619 uh I just want to paint a picture of the 01:02:13.619 --> 01:02:18.119 situation I was standing there writing a 01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:19.140 check 01:02:19.140 --> 01:02:20.940 or the service 01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:25.140 and I hadn't been given the amount 01:02:25.140 --> 01:02:30.079 and this energy came through Phoebe 01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:35.220 and I was able to open a door for my 01:02:35.220 --> 01:02:37.220 robust 01:02:37.220 --> 01:02:40.940 manhood as well 01:02:41.339 --> 01:02:44.339 and I think that the um 01:02:44.339 --> 01:02:47.339 the uh pop-up School 01:02:47.339 --> 01:02:52.740 percolating and bubbling in all of us is 01:02:52.740 --> 01:02:55.220 to find 01:02:55.220 --> 01:02:58.319 opportunities that present themselves in 01:02:58.319 --> 01:03:02.880 real life just in the daily living 01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:04.020 to 01:03:04.020 --> 01:03:06.240 break through 01:03:06.240 --> 01:03:11.839 just to break the F through 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.720 but when I'm getting uh from 01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:33.839 because we have we're having work done 01:03:33.839 --> 01:03:35.700 on our roof we've done a lot of 01:03:35.700 --> 01:03:37.440 Renovations we have workers coming 01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:41.460 through here all the time and I love 01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:44.880 knowing how like becoming familiar with 01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:46.740 their 01:03:46.740 --> 01:03:49.619 their culture and how they they relate 01:03:49.619 --> 01:03:51.960 to one another either like within a 01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:54.900 group and across groups and I don't 01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:58.260 think it's that dissimilar in my own uh 01:03:58.260 --> 01:04:01.380 job situation where I know how to 01:04:01.380 --> 01:04:04.920 operate in that system and 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:08.819 um and that can either be what drives me 01:04:08.819 --> 01:04:11.700 or I can just know that in order to be 01:04:11.700 --> 01:04:15.000 how to function and then 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.140 and then something else can also happen 01:04:19.140 --> 01:04:20.940 um so it's not that 01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:23.040 are yeah 01:04:23.040 --> 01:04:25.680 um what I was calling the justification 01:04:25.680 --> 01:04:28.140 system it's more than that it's just 01:04:28.140 --> 01:04:30.720 it's it's ways that we know each other 01:04:30.720 --> 01:04:33.260 in a context and we can understand 01:04:33.260 --> 01:04:36.180 uh you know this person belongs here 01:04:36.180 --> 01:04:38.579 that person doesn't and then you get 01:04:38.579 --> 01:04:41.220 that kind of fluentness in a certain 01:04:41.220 --> 01:04:44.760 context and 01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:46.380 um 01:04:46.380 --> 01:04:50.040 and then more possibly can happen 01:04:50.040 --> 01:04:52.819 I don't know 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:21.140 you can hear the birds 01:05:21.359 --> 01:05:24.020 outside 01:05:32.819 --> 01:05:35.400 okay I think this was a very great 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:36.920 conversation 01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:39.540 thank you so much for 01:05:39.540 --> 01:05:41.640 sharing 01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:44.520 these wonderful insights 01:05:44.520 --> 01:05:46.640 um 01:05:47.220 --> 01:05:49.980 they're very powerful you know it's a 01:05:49.980 --> 01:05:53.119 very powerful in science 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.000 thank you so much ## Cohort 2 00:00:02.060 --> 00:00:10.319 okay so hi Catalia Cattleya Catalia 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:14.300 your music is that a good 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:21.020 a good guess how to say your name 00:00:21.420 --> 00:00:24.180 yeah so um 00:00:24.180 --> 00:00:26.939 oh forget somebody else 00:00:26.939 --> 00:00:30.779 this is a recap session and we're happy 00:00:30.779 --> 00:00:34.620 to uh be in service to 00:00:34.620 --> 00:00:35.700 um 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:39.300 new people who 00:00:39.300 --> 00:00:40.260 um 00:00:40.260 --> 00:00:42.540 who are interested in what of what we've 00:00:42.540 --> 00:00:44.460 been doing for like January 3rd March 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:47.879 April May June July six months 00:00:47.879 --> 00:00:51.239 so please feel 00:00:51.239 --> 00:00:52.500 um 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:54.559 yeah feel 00:00:54.559 --> 00:00:57.719 enthusiastic about butting in and asking 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.079 questions and and being the Catalyst 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:02.640 that we need 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.860 uh because we've been 00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:07.080 doing this for 00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:09.360 for all years so 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:11.880 you know there's this great 00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:14.780 video 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:19.799 I'm trying to remember the name of it I 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.280 sh I'll put it in the in the show notes 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:27.060 of the recap of this video 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:30.479 and it's about these 00:01:30.479 --> 00:01:32.400 three women 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:35.119 who 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:38.579 conceive of an expedition conceive of 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:40.619 something they want to do and what they 00:01:40.619 --> 00:01:43.020 want to do is roll 00:01:43.020 --> 00:01:46.159 around the world 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.000 and so 00:01:50.119 --> 00:01:54.659 and there's a crew of three no crew of 00:01:54.659 --> 00:01:56.520 four 00:01:56.520 --> 00:01:58.740 and what they do is something like I'm 00:01:58.740 --> 00:02:02.640 gonna get it wrong but like 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.420 they're couples in the first pair of 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:09.000 rows for like eight hours 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.280 and then they eat and go to sleep and 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.819 the second pair Rose to eight hours and 00:02:14.819 --> 00:02:17.580 they eat and go to sleep 24 hours a day 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:22.379 seven days a week 30 days a year a month 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:25.379 this is their routine like that's all 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:28.560 that's all they're doing that's all 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.319 they're doing right 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:33.840 and 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:35.640 but 00:02:35.640 --> 00:02:39.720 they realize like the first four people 00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:41.940 one of them 00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:44.519 can only make the first 00:02:44.519 --> 00:02:47.580 uh phase it's like it's in four three or 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:50.099 four I think in three phases like they 00:02:50.099 --> 00:02:52.160 can only make it from San Francisco 00:02:52.160 --> 00:02:55.140 California to 00:02:55.140 --> 00:02:58.379 okay Hawaii or something and then Hawaii 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:00.500 to whatever and 00:03:00.500 --> 00:03:04.860 so they have to lose one of the 00:03:04.860 --> 00:03:09.920 participants in each one of these stages 00:03:10.379 --> 00:03:14.879 and what's very very interesting is 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:18.300 when they get to the next stage and this 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:20.819 they start off with three p four people 00:03:20.819 --> 00:03:24.440 who are rowers like like competitive 00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:28.319 athletic Olympic Olympian rowers 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.140 and then when they get to the next thing 00:03:31.140 --> 00:03:33.420 they take someone who like 00:03:33.420 --> 00:03:36.780 kind of knows how to row 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.420 but has a good attitude and when they 00:03:39.420 --> 00:03:42.420 get to the next phase 00:03:42.420 --> 00:03:44.640 they take someone who's never been on a 00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:47.239 boat before 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:49.739 and then when they get to Australia then 00:03:49.739 --> 00:03:51.959 they get to someone I think no the next 00:03:51.959 --> 00:03:54.299 space they get someone who's never rode 00:03:54.299 --> 00:03:56.519 before and they get to Australia to make 00:03:56.519 --> 00:03:57.360 the 00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:59.040 final round 00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:02.480 This Woman's never been on a boat before 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:07.379 and oh uh losing side of shore it's a 00:04:07.379 --> 00:04:08.640 great video 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:13.319 and why it's an amazing it's an amazing 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.000 documentary 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.600 because they begin to understand 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.359 that they don't need to add a fourth 00:04:21.359 --> 00:04:22.979 rower 00:04:22.979 --> 00:04:29.040 they need to add a naive perspective 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:33.720 a sophisticated naive perspective 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.040 to get them going 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.380 it's a completely underrated film 00:04:40.380 --> 00:04:43.080 because most people just see it as like 00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:44.639 some kind of like 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.120 physical documentary about like some 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:49.759 physical 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:54.840 exceptionalism but this decision this 00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:57.060 thing that they understood and what's 00:04:57.060 --> 00:05:00.720 really interesting is like the woman in 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.380 the first two phases that was like 00:05:04.380 --> 00:05:06.600 the other physical people were falling 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.060 apart and she's just like I just love to 00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:12.180 see I just love the work she starts to 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:14.340 fall apart in the third phase 00:05:14.340 --> 00:05:17.100 and this Australian woman who doesn't 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:19.080 even know how to swim 00:05:19.080 --> 00:05:22.440 literally they brought on board someone 00:05:22.440 --> 00:05:24.539 who didn't know how to swim and never 00:05:24.539 --> 00:05:26.400 been on a boat 00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:30.600 she ends up being complementary 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.740 and saving this woman it's the I it's 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:36.720 the most brilliant 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.259 uh I don't even I so I come to this 00:05:40.259 --> 00:05:42.300 course tonight I don't think about 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:45.000 saying this I see Catalia and I'm 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.660 thinking like 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:50.460 this is the energy 00:05:50.460 --> 00:05:54.360 of new enthusiasm right like like this 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.080 is what we want to bring uh 00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:01.020 to what we're doing in this course and 00:06:01.020 --> 00:06:02.880 the rest of us have lots and lots of 00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:05.100 blah blah blah to say about what we've 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:07.139 been doing the last six months 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:10.919 but just as an invitation like 00:06:10.919 --> 00:06:13.020 um and when I post this video of 00:06:13.020 --> 00:06:16.080 tonight's course I'll put that video 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:18.720 link to that video how many of you have 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:20.400 seen that I think I've linked it maybe a 00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:22.080 couple of times before 00:06:22.080 --> 00:06:26.780 uh it's just it's just an amazing video 00:06:26.780 --> 00:06:31.500 and it's underrepresented because if you 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:34.139 watch the video it really pays more 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:36.900 attention to like the extraordinary 00:06:36.900 --> 00:06:39.360 feeds of this and 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.000 but it's just it's this decision they 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.240 made 00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:48.800 you know they put out like 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.600 this social media thing who wants to do 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.020 this and they started in each phase 00:06:55.020 --> 00:06:57.000 uh 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.000 choosing 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:03.919 according to different 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.919 parameters or whatever I don't know so 00:07:07.919 --> 00:07:10.620 like I'm projecting that all on on the 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:14.100 new people here Eric I've seen before 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:18.000 um Catalina is new but like like I'm 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.580 kind of just telling the people who are 00:07:20.580 --> 00:07:23.039 veterans of the pop-up school not to be 00:07:23.039 --> 00:07:27.440 like veterans but to have this other 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:29.300 foreign 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:32.880 maybe someone can help me out here 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:36.419 and yeah 00:07:36.419 --> 00:07:39.539 and then we'll go on to tonight's uh 00:07:39.539 --> 00:07:42.199 topic 00:07:44.340 --> 00:07:45.960 another bedroom 00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:47.400 so 00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:50.699 I just reread uh the beginning of a book 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:53.160 called The Feminine face of God 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.460 and in the beginning this woman has a 00:07:56.460 --> 00:07:57.960 Jewish woman 00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:00.720 here here's the word Shekinah or 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.240 Shekinah and she doesn't even know what 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:04.620 it is she's never heard it before but 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:06.900 she hears it twice and she and she's 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:08.639 really intrigued it seems to have a lot 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.220 of input and so finally she's looking 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:13.199 looking it up asking her friends or 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.479 family and finally uh so her friend 00:08:15.479 --> 00:08:18.180 comes over with um 00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:21.240 something a book about the Kabbalah and 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:22.800 they look it up and she finds out what 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.599 it means it means the feminine face of 00:08:24.599 --> 00:08:25.319 God 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:29.099 and she gets deeply you can tell me if 00:08:29.099 --> 00:08:31.379 I'm wrong I just read it to David she 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:33.479 gets um 00:08:33.479 --> 00:08:36.120 well it touched deeply a dream that she 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.479 had and in the dream 00:08:39.479 --> 00:08:42.060 I won't go through the whole dream 00:08:42.060 --> 00:08:44.459 but she comes 00:08:44.459 --> 00:08:47.100 I guess through a dragon she comes to a 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:49.080 a place where there's open doors and she 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.779 walks in and she meets uh 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:53.399 a man 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:55.260 with a saber 00:08:55.260 --> 00:08:58.080 she gets a saber but he's he lets her 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.440 lead the way and she goes into 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.839 um I can't remember but open some doors 00:09:03.839 --> 00:09:06.000 and into the back and Away in the back 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:10.440 she has this awe because there is the 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.980 Torah and as a child she's never 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:17.459 was able to see the Torah being female 00:09:17.459 --> 00:09:21.060 and so when she gets up there 00:09:21.060 --> 00:09:24.839 they open it and it's blank there's 00:09:24.839 --> 00:09:27.540 nothing on the scroll there's nothing 00:09:27.540 --> 00:09:28.680 there 00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:30.720 and the 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.320 um 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.600 person that she's with 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.920 says um 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:38.700 puts it 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:42.120 inside of her body from her head all the 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.980 way down to her knees 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:48.420 and the message that she gets is that 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:50.220 um it's hers 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:52.200 to write 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:53.519 and 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:56.220 I can't remember the sequence but as 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:59.640 soon as she at one as soon as she gets 00:09:59.640 --> 00:10:02.160 that then there are all these men that 00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:04.920 show up and traditional Jewish Garb 00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:08.100 including Moses and King David and King 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:09.959 Solomon and they're all dancing and 00:10:09.959 --> 00:10:11.519 they're all joyful 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.880 and she has this feeling of 00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:18.480 indescribable kindness and she asks you 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.120 know something about how am I supposed 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:23.640 to do this and he says you know just 00:10:23.640 --> 00:10:27.060 talk to your women friends women it's 00:10:27.060 --> 00:10:28.440 women's 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:31.500 um we our ways don't work anymore 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:34.680 we don't know the way and it's up to you 00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:38.160 to write the Torah going forward I 00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:39.839 butchered this but that's the basic 00:10:39.839 --> 00:10:42.620 feeling and it 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:47.600 I just love the um 00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:50.640 it's a similar realization 00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:52.800 our ways don't 00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:55.860 won't get us where we want to go 00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:58.040 so you said 00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:01.560 Indescribable in not able to be 00:11:01.560 --> 00:11:04.560 described 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:10.320 this is the Torah that is not able to be 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.040 described described 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:23.579 I just would like to add when Bibi read 00:11:23.579 --> 00:11:24.839 me this 00:11:24.839 --> 00:11:27.360 preface to the book 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.600 I felt like 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.540 the story you were telling about the new 00:11:33.540 --> 00:11:37.320 energy coming in is the only way to 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:40.500 create a novel future 00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:42.660 it's not about 00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:44.880 dissecting 00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:48.540 through reflection the past that's the 00:11:48.540 --> 00:11:51.300 only way to create a new future and the 00:11:51.300 --> 00:11:52.680 and and 00:11:52.680 --> 00:11:54.180 um 00:11:54.180 --> 00:11:56.760 the other thing that struck me really 00:11:56.760 --> 00:12:01.860 deeply is that this idea of the Torah 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:05.339 being inserted into the woman who is 00:12:05.339 --> 00:12:09.440 going to teach the other women 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.860 how to move to this novel future was a 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:18.360 blank Torah in her body 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.980 through her body to find the way 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.839 so I thought it related to 00:12:26.839 --> 00:12:31.079 getting the mind okay 00:12:31.079 --> 00:12:34.320 I have not recorded 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.480 I thought you did 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.480 oh I am okay sorry okay 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:42.560 sorry continue 00:12:42.959 --> 00:12:45.180 so 00:12:45.180 --> 00:12:50.519 for her to teach the way for women to 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.399 lead the future 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.100 is through her getting her mind into her 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:02.279 body and writing the Torah in her body 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.740 I just thought it related to our course 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.399 this year 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:12.959 thank you David and PBI 00:13:12.959 --> 00:13:15.000 I shared something a while back in 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.380 Collective presidency which I've been 00:13:16.380 --> 00:13:19.680 doing what for three years or so now 00:13:19.680 --> 00:13:22.139 um and part of perspective I have on new 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.600 people coming in is there's a there's a 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.940 gravity to the group that is there most 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:29.220 often and people are not in the group 00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:31.260 are coming from some energetic distance 00:13:31.260 --> 00:13:33.660 and as they get pulled in there's a 00:13:33.660 --> 00:13:35.339 velocity with which they're being pulled 00:13:35.339 --> 00:13:37.740 by this sort of joyful and they're 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:39.720 radiating that sort of like a comet 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.680 comes close to the Sun there's this 00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:44.880 off-putting of energy that falls into 00:13:44.880 --> 00:13:46.680 the space and they're getting high just 00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:48.000 from a velocity with which they're 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.600 moving towards us 00:13:55.079 --> 00:13:59.279 but I also experienced like we have to 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.019 we have to 00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:04.680 be aware of the other because like like 00:14:04.680 --> 00:14:08.240 when when a group gets really 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.320 intimate and and Collective on itself 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:17.540 it's hard for it to like 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.760 have the attraction energy move out 00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:27.120 so this is a problem in a lot of my 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.760 res-based practices is like this group 00:14:29.760 --> 00:14:32.720 got really like 00:14:33.380 --> 00:14:36.420 mind melded and people had their own 00:14:36.420 --> 00:14:38.579 ideas and then new people would come in 00:14:38.579 --> 00:14:39.899 and they're like what the are you 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:41.339 talking about and they felt like really 00:14:41.339 --> 00:14:46.380 so like what it is to expand in into 00:14:46.380 --> 00:14:48.600 that so pretty soon we're gonna ask 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:53.279 Catalia to talk or just like just like 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.260 scream or something whatever you want to 00:14:55.260 --> 00:14:57.779 do because we're pretty we're pretty 00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:59.639 open to that but 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.459 uh we'll pick on Eric first because he's 00:15:02.459 --> 00:15:05.639 been here twice and second time yeah 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.579 yeah we'll see if we you and Eric yeah 00:15:08.579 --> 00:15:11.760 maybe you can paint social dancing off 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:15.959 of uh sure Catalia yeah do it sure here 00:15:15.959 --> 00:15:17.760 we go 00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:19.940 um 00:15:20.699 --> 00:15:23.760 like it's it's a fascinating topic isn't 00:15:23.760 --> 00:15:27.480 it the the I've NFL uh I've been a 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:31.920 newcomer to a like an established space 00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:34.320 more than once and 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.180 um there are similar feelings that come 00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:39.660 up which is like that like what what the 00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:41.339 hell are you guys talking about what's 00:15:41.339 --> 00:15:43.320 actually the purpose of this that's 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.079 that's that's typically uh at the heart 00:15:46.079 --> 00:15:49.199 of of uh how I 00:15:49.199 --> 00:15:52.260 um start to engage with what goes on and 00:15:52.260 --> 00:15:53.459 then 00:15:53.459 --> 00:15:56.639 the the I really like the the challenge 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:00.660 of this this naive energy that's 00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:04.920 required to be kind of nourished or 00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:09.600 allowed uh to spark the Innovation to 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.600 ensure that rigidity is not maintained 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.660 or that Innovation can occur 00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:16.199 um 00:16:16.199 --> 00:16:19.260 the challenge I guess in a set space in 00:16:19.260 --> 00:16:20.579 a group with 00:16:20.579 --> 00:16:22.380 um you know in this I want to say an 00:16:22.380 --> 00:16:24.300 established hierarchy I'm not not saying 00:16:24.300 --> 00:16:25.800 that there necessarily is a hierarchy 00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:28.620 here but like they're they're is a set 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.860 kind of there is some sort of order and 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:33.720 then a newcomer 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.800 coming in with A New Perspective while 00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:40.680 the the group view has been established 00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:42.240 somewhat 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.600 and then allowing space for the the the 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.839 input that that could be coming that 00:16:48.839 --> 00:16:51.120 could be fruitful input or could not be 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.420 or could just be naive stupid input 00:16:54.420 --> 00:16:58.199 um and then allowing the evolution of 00:16:58.199 --> 00:16:59.459 things 00:16:59.459 --> 00:17:02.220 it's quite a powerful thing uh and I 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:07.699 think somewhat under utilized typically 00:17:10.020 --> 00:17:12.540 leave it at that 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:16.980 yeah in in in in in conversational space 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:18.980 I call it naives 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:23.040 sophisticated naive Observers 00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:26.100 so it's not that like you have no clue 00:17:26.100 --> 00:17:29.100 but 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:32.400 um 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.240 the the naivete of the observation and 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.059 you're sophisticated is extremely 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:40.919 important 00:17:40.919 --> 00:17:43.860 at a certain phase in development of a 00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:47.400 like a theory or a new model of 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:52.380 uh the body or something like that and 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:54.539 um this is something that we have to do 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:58.440 intentionally because as tribal you know 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.020 people sit around a circle and then the 00:18:01.020 --> 00:18:05.039 circle feels really good and like 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.100 um 00:18:07.260 --> 00:18:09.720 that's just we have to understand that 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.720 as a first phase so 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.020 um yeah yeah I I would really like to 00:18:16.020 --> 00:18:18.120 respond one more time if that's okay oh 00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:19.620 yeah 00:18:19.620 --> 00:18:21.799 um 00:18:22.919 --> 00:18:27.600 so as a newcomer my experience is that 00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:30.179 you know you you notice an established 00:18:30.179 --> 00:18:33.539 form you notice you you notice you know 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:36.240 the the energy or the you know the 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.559 approach 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.260 and then 00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:42.840 you also know you can also sometimes 00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:46.039 spot the rigidity 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:50.100 but it's almost I know I wonder if if 00:18:50.100 --> 00:18:52.679 there's something like a bit counter 00:18:52.679 --> 00:18:55.740 intuitive to allowing the because 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:57.960 there's almost a challenger energy that 00:18:57.960 --> 00:18:59.340 comes with the in 00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:04.020 um in the um pardon with with the 00:19:04.020 --> 00:19:05.880 newcomers View 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.419 that naivete their the 00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:12.120 sorry I'm just uh 00:19:12.120 --> 00:19:15.179 just trying to find the right words 00:19:15.179 --> 00:19:18.080 the Navy 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.260 enables a 00:19:22.260 --> 00:19:25.740 so spotting the rigidity understand the 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:28.320 limitations of the current construct 00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:31.620 the fresh set of eyes enables you to 00:19:31.620 --> 00:19:34.380 maybe get some kind of critical 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:36.840 um commentary you know to form some 00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:40.440 critical commentary I don't think but 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.660 there's some kind of not wanting to hear 00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:44.340 the critical commentary in the way it's 00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:47.100 intended because there's a stronger 00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:50.220 drive to maintain what is then to evolve 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:52.080 necessarily because there is all this 00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:54.179 discomfort that is associated with 00:19:54.179 --> 00:19:56.700 having to evolve again after 00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.940 establishing a certain level of comfort 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:03.179 Yeah just something I'm wondering about 00:20:03.179 --> 00:20:05.780 I mean 00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:12.140 [Music] 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:16.400 and in the stowa 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:18.960 um the way Peter Lindbergh was running 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.480 it is like he just featured a lot of 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.880 different perspectives 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.720 and so a lot of people came from the 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:29.520 store and I had to say this is not like 00:20:29.520 --> 00:20:32.340 the store like this is my thing like I 00:20:32.340 --> 00:20:34.799 teach my thing my view 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:39.419 uh where are you my blah blah blah but 00:20:39.419 --> 00:20:41.600 over time it's become much more 00:20:41.600 --> 00:20:44.100 co-creative because people will say 00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:45.419 things 00:20:45.419 --> 00:20:47.580 and so 00:20:47.580 --> 00:20:50.220 I might put it into words or put it into 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:53.640 a model but it's definitely something I 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.100 would not have thought of when I did it 00:20:56.100 --> 00:20:59.760 so there is kind of like you know I talk 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:01.620 about it like 00:21:01.620 --> 00:21:05.820 um new theory of the body okay so when 00:21:05.820 --> 00:21:08.880 your insulin levels 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.700 your sugar levels I guess go too high 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:16.440 all the cells in your body suffer 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.900 but only your pancreas can do something 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:21.600 about it right only your paint and so 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:22.919 it's like 00:21:22.919 --> 00:21:26.340 like we were different organs of 00:21:26.340 --> 00:21:27.360 something 00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:32.460 and I have a certain so so 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.880 yeah so there's a strong asymmetry and 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:38.580 that's okay because like 00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:41.700 like there's a strong asymmetry in your 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:43.860 pancreas what the pancreas can do for 00:21:43.860 --> 00:21:46.740 your the rest of your body but 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.799 um 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.740 that should also and this is what I hear 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:56.039 you saying that should also be open to 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:58.320 transformation 00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:00.900 yeah it's almost like an ID board sorry 00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:02.820 yeah no 00:22:02.820 --> 00:22:05.280 it's almost like an ID box it's required 00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:07.020 like you know where can you deposit 00:22:07.020 --> 00:22:10.740 these ideas that that for for evolution 00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:13.260 um you know any kind of simplistic way 00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:14.940 of looking at it but 00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:17.159 it is kind of like that how do you how 00:22:17.159 --> 00:22:19.799 do you transfer that idea in a 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.320 constructive way and how does it get the 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:24.299 attention it requires to be considered 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:26.880 properly so that Evolution if if it is 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.480 indeed an evolution a positive evolution 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.360 is gonna create it 00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:37.340 exactly and and how 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:45.539 we want a better world we want better 00:22:45.539 --> 00:22:48.000 futures for our children we want to 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.400 plant that flourish I mean 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.220 it's it's very 00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:55.620 frustrating that there's all these 00:22:55.620 --> 00:22:59.539 common goals common 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.740 and then there's this 00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:08.820 there's something misunderstood between 00:23:08.820 --> 00:23:12.120 having common vision 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:15.240 and the lack of execution 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:17.940 and 00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.179 um in the middle there's all this 00:23:21.179 --> 00:23:23.760 chaos where it's like yeah yeah but no 00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:26.400 but yes but no but yes because we're 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.720 trying to marry 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:35.100 the fundamental desire of life 00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:37.799 to to 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.020 the outcome 00:23:40.020 --> 00:23:42.299 and in the middle we're confused 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:43.860 basically 00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:48.600 as a species I would say I mean myself 00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:51.380 including 00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:56.640 for me purpose comes up a lot and then 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.360 like you know re get having Clarity of 00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:03.000 purpose and then understanding the scope 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:08.039 that therefore is yours to play in and 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:09.600 then you know if you if you get over 00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:12.179 ambitious and there's scope creep uh in 00:24:12.179 --> 00:24:14.640 regard in the alignment with the actual 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:18.299 purpose that's sometimes where you know 00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.880 where the sub-optimal stuff starts to 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:22.500 happen and we're pretending to be 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.900 something we're not or 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.299 yeah interesting uh it's interesting 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:30.679 Dynamics right yeah 00:24:36.419 --> 00:24:40.820 um so Eric got me curious as he was 00:24:40.820 --> 00:24:44.520 describing what a naive Observer coming 00:24:44.520 --> 00:24:47.880 into a group can see and I was just 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.159 wondering if uh Eric you might be 00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:53.460 willing to share any of the observation 00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:56.280 that 00:24:56.280 --> 00:24:56.940 um 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:58.679 uh 00:24:58.679 --> 00:25:01.559 yeah that you might have of the girls 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.360 sure 00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:05.940 so 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:08.220 um I just gonna I'm just gonna preface 00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:12.659 it with um saying that uh 00:25:12.659 --> 00:25:16.500 the I've got two key examples that that 00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:18.600 that and in the back of that of 00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:22.500 experienced that uh made me kind of uh 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.020 wonder about this and this this setting 00:25:25.020 --> 00:25:26.880 is not one of the examples that I have 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:29.700 in here in my in my head around hey this 00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:32.100 is very clearly where where the naive 00:25:32.100 --> 00:25:34.740 new uh or the new person with the naive 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:37.799 mindset comes in and has a view that 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.380 isn't being heard yet or there so this 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:42.960 is this is my second time here so it's 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.200 too early to have any kind of big ones 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.240 it's it's more like I was in the senior 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.760 leadership team at work where this was 00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:52.559 really clearly kind of observed when I 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.900 was just new coming in and I I spent 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.480 some time with Collective presencing and 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.820 I I you know I felt very strongly there 00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:02.520 that there was this this this situation 00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:05.400 where all the feedback could could have 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.100 been heard and for the evolution of of 00:26:08.100 --> 00:26:11.279 it that you know I didn't feel 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.279 um uh uh there was any kind of fertile 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:16.380 ground for or anything or an opportunity 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.779 so 00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.779 my first impression I I'll share that if 00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:23.700 that's required if that's the request 00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:27.600 Mary uh if if that's appreciated at all 00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:28.500 um 00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:33.240 first impression it's fascinating 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.419 um uh field 00:26:35.419 --> 00:26:39.299 uh really strong 00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:42.779 um uh input and 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:45.659 um very skillful 00:26:45.659 --> 00:26:46.700 um 00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:51.799 guiding by Bonita on a uh on a a a 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.539 fascinating topic that's kind of like at 00:26:54.539 --> 00:26:58.799 the edge of things so I think the the 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.620 the many the the big kind of continuous 00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:04.140 evolution of the of the 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:06.120 of the let's call it the literature 00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:09.059 around that that is uh for the pop-up 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:12.840 school is as phenomenal and a lot of 00:27:12.840 --> 00:27:16.020 hungry nurse around engaging on the 00:27:16.020 --> 00:27:19.380 topic is my first impression 00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:20.400 um 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.100 what I think will what what I'm 00:27:23.100 --> 00:27:28.860 interested to learn is where the 00:27:28.860 --> 00:27:30.840 Practical 00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:34.260 um you know so is it is it is it 00:27:34.260 --> 00:27:36.980 philosophy 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.000 philosophizing so I think well 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:43.320 philosophying or is it going to be also 00:27:43.320 --> 00:27:48.000 adding to how I position myself in the 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.580 world and you know how much of it going 00:27:50.580 --> 00:27:52.679 is is it going to be the practical 00:27:52.679 --> 00:27:54.480 application at some point After 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.720 experiencing it for a while or will it 00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.520 be more of a 00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:03.299 conceptual theoretical uh experience and 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:05.880 I have no idea so because I'm this much 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.820 this might like what my my tuna first 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:11.460 I've spent two and a half hours here so 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:13.559 I know nothing really 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.659 but I'm yeah I'm super intrigued and 00:28:15.659 --> 00:28:18.720 it's fascinating stuff and uh it feels 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:20.700 really 00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:24.419 it feels like uh they feel uh I feel 00:28:24.419 --> 00:28:26.520 there's a whole lot of depth there and a 00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:28.200 lot of quality so yeah I'm super 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.740 intrigued 00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.860 okay I have to run for just three 00:28:46.860 --> 00:28:50.039 seconds three minutes but but 00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:51.059 um 00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:57.679 yeah so I I I maybe people can help uh 00:28:57.679 --> 00:29:00.900 make the case for practicality and I 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.179 know you have stories and I'll be right 00:29:03.179 --> 00:29:04.200 back 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.380 I'll um I'll share 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.720 um so I'm kind of having the experience 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.419 of I've been away mostly but I haven't 00:29:12.419 --> 00:29:14.159 really been present for like six months 00:29:14.159 --> 00:29:16.320 or so kind of other things that I had 00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:19.740 been uh at the top of school since the 00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:21.000 start of it 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.320 um 00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:24.960 and you know it was I'd wanted to be 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.760 here but couldn't for various reasons 00:29:26.760 --> 00:29:29.340 but like also in that I 00:29:29.340 --> 00:29:31.320 recognize that actually there's also 00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:33.960 maybe some some good in that for me in 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:35.820 the way of like 00:29:35.820 --> 00:29:39.980 it gave me opportunity to 00:29:40.020 --> 00:29:43.080 see all right how am I actually 00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:45.240 practicing this how am I embodying this 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.460 like in relationships with people who 00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:48.960 don't have all this lingo who aren't 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.340 coming to these classes who aren't 00:29:50.340 --> 00:29:51.720 necessarily interested in having these 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.140 conversations uh from uh a point of like 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.360 philosophizing about it but like 00:29:57.360 --> 00:29:59.700 just people in my life 00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:03.000 um who I have just various different 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.840 kinds of relationships with how 00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:09.240 yeah how does this translate 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.299 um and also making sure that I guess 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.940 there was a there was also a way of like 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:18.240 making uh just checking myself to be 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:19.919 like am I just like aping this stuff 00:30:19.919 --> 00:30:22.200 because I'm around hearing about it a 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.360 lot and I kind of it can you know you 00:30:24.360 --> 00:30:26.220 can think oh yeah cool yeah I know this 00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.679 this stuff conceptually so this is where 00:30:28.679 --> 00:30:30.600 I'm at you know 00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:31.740 um 00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:34.559 and serving the time away has given me a 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.860 good chance to sort of have that 00:30:37.860 --> 00:30:40.500 reflection space but also yeah the 00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:41.880 practice 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:42.840 um 00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:45.240 and yeah like I can see there's there's 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.580 loads of the you know terminology and 00:30:47.580 --> 00:30:49.500 things like that that just that goes out 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.700 the window like eventually you know 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:55.799 isn't the thing that's at the Forefront 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:56.880 um 00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.620 but just little things about just 00:30:58.620 --> 00:31:00.779 learning to to notice more like kind of 00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:02.159 being more in touch with my body and 00:31:02.159 --> 00:31:04.559 being able to just even even little 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.679 tricks of like uh like kind of hacks of 00:31:07.679 --> 00:31:10.500 being able to kind of move into 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:13.080 um like Alison Chuck mode more like kind 00:31:13.080 --> 00:31:15.720 of thin kind of egocentric just even 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.340 little things we learned early on we're 00:31:17.340 --> 00:31:18.299 just like 00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:20.159 you know focusing your eyes on the 00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:23.039 peripheral and noticing how just 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.340 employing those like yeah those things 00:31:26.340 --> 00:31:27.600 like kind of in different situations 00:31:27.600 --> 00:31:30.779 that helped me to navigate and move in 00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:32.880 another way 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:33.840 um 00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:35.460 you know there's there's loads that I 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:38.159 could go back and I'd love to like I'm 00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:40.860 here for the recap of this last session 00:31:40.860 --> 00:31:43.260 um and now it's this lasts uh six months 00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:44.360 or so 00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:46.260 and 00:31:46.260 --> 00:31:49.559 yeah there's never gonna be the same 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.080 just like having that recap or even just 00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:53.820 watching the videos back you know as 00:31:53.820 --> 00:31:55.320 being in the space of people and 00:31:55.320 --> 00:31:56.820 developing those relationships and 00:31:56.820 --> 00:31:58.620 practice 00:31:58.620 --> 00:31:59.399 um 00:31:59.399 --> 00:32:02.279 yeah I've also been on on my other 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:05.460 Journeys and and bringing 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:07.559 what I've also gathered 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:11.520 there back into this space now 00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:13.640 um 00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:19.919 I'd also say uh 00:32:19.919 --> 00:32:22.799 kind of similar I guess but 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.799 I find this a lot of stuff here like 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.659 even though it can get like 00:32:27.659 --> 00:32:31.399 theories and stuff theoretical 00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.080 I don't know just the way maybe 00:32:34.080 --> 00:32:36.720 she presents it or it's presented and 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.120 just little pieces of advice here and 00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:41.279 there it's almost like it doesn't 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.340 like maybe some Frameworks or courses 00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:46.080 and stuff can kind of Silo people into 00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:47.279 different 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.179 ways of thinking and it can kind of 00:32:51.179 --> 00:32:53.100 make it difficult to talk about with 00:32:53.100 --> 00:32:56.760 other people but I find this stuff 00:32:56.760 --> 00:32:58.620 maybe it's just the ways presented as 00:32:58.620 --> 00:33:00.539 being like don't focus on the theory too 00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:03.720 much but it kind of it doesn't do that 00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.899 for me anyway like it 00:33:06.899 --> 00:33:09.360 I find I get more engaged with other 00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:13.140 people and the world as opposed to you 00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:15.539 know being a siled sort of yeah 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:18.440 framework 00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:27.960 I think I'd like to share 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:31.220 um as sort of new to this group 00:33:31.220 --> 00:33:34.559 I've been to I think 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.399 um three or four sessions 00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:40.380 um 00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:42.960 and I think it's it's interesting to 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.120 hear what you're saying Eric because I 00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:47.039 definitely feel like I'm walking into a 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.159 space that's very different 00:33:50.159 --> 00:33:50.760 um 00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:53.159 but has a different 00:33:53.159 --> 00:33:56.760 culture horizon line than the one that 00:33:56.760 --> 00:33:59.039 I'm from I come from 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.679 Dance Movement therapy which is a very 00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:03.720 matrilineal 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.899 community and it's very focused on 00:34:06.899 --> 00:34:10.440 creative process dance in the body so 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.919 this is the language with which I 00:34:13.919 --> 00:34:16.760 have been have been trained 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:19.919 and the thing that I feel so gratified 00:34:19.919 --> 00:34:24.300 by and encouraged by is within this 00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:27.060 space when I 00:34:27.060 --> 00:34:30.720 move into it when I offer something I 00:34:30.720 --> 00:34:34.080 have an experience of it being 00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:35.300 um 00:34:35.300 --> 00:34:38.879 Landing in a different way than it does 00:34:38.879 --> 00:34:42.740 in a lot of the rest of the world 00:34:43.020 --> 00:34:44.300 um 00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:47.639 and so that first of all feels really 00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:49.320 really wonderful 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.099 I'm also very conscious of myself as 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.839 um I think you said maybe disruptor Eric 00:34:56.839 --> 00:34:59.820 like something like David do you 00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:01.380 remember when I came in and I just sang 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:04.380 to you guys in the small in the small 00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.200 group I was ready to bring in something 00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:09.599 that was like what 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.480 Let's Dance right it was a dance it was 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.020 a song an invitation to dance and 00:35:16.020 --> 00:35:17.700 um 00:35:17.700 --> 00:35:20.520 and it go it goes like this it's David 00:35:20.520 --> 00:35:23.400 both you probably heard it but it like 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:28.020 let's dance put on your Red Shoes and 00:35:28.020 --> 00:35:31.020 Dance the Blues 00:35:31.020 --> 00:35:33.839 yeah so it's it's I was trying to see 00:35:33.839 --> 00:35:37.200 like what happens in the body like 00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:39.359 that's I guess the inquiry like what 00:35:39.359 --> 00:35:42.900 happens when you hear a call to dance 00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:46.859 when you hear a song like 00:35:46.859 --> 00:35:49.740 do we move into the the thoughts of the 00:35:49.740 --> 00:35:53.579 song do we do we connect somehow into a 00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:55.859 memory or into you know um build that 00:35:55.859 --> 00:35:58.440 observational piece through an 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.400 instigation or like a provocation that 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.280 hopefully is playful 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.960 um so 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.020 yeah I think that that's that's what I'm 00:36:10.020 --> 00:36:13.020 feeling is just a lot of gratitude to be 00:36:13.020 --> 00:36:16.079 in a space where although the languaging 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.660 is different we are we are creating 00:36:21.660 --> 00:36:25.099 uh scaffolding together 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:32.579 so and I you know I I love the vision to 00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:34.920 to shift something and I wonder like 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.920 there's a lot of something in the world 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.440 and I think when we are called in in a 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:42.839 way that is 00:36:42.839 --> 00:36:47.220 um joyful pleasureful engaging like like 00:36:47.220 --> 00:36:50.720 that's how I want to change the world 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.800 so 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:56.420 that's awesome for me 00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:05.960 I think I would like to share 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:09.800 um 00:38:10.140 --> 00:38:15.500 I loved the phrase you used Eric 00:38:16.579 --> 00:38:20.579 fascinating guiding 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:24.000 and 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:29.160 for me the pop-up school has been 00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:32.000 practical 00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:37.520 I've 00:38:37.859 --> 00:38:40.859 digested 00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:46.099 through an open 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:49.260 consciousness 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.920 ideas that have come from the 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:56.579 fascinating guiding 00:38:57.540 --> 00:39:01.440 and opened myself up 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:03.480 to 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:08.280 be more clear about who I am as I walk 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.859 my walk 00:39:10.859 --> 00:39:15.359 and how is that practical 00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:20.000 I don't have 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.640 that many 00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:26.220 interpretations and judgments about the 00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:30.240 sun shining I'm feeling in my body the 00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:33.560 Sun's shining 00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:36.480 that's really practical 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:40.160 the day is the day 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.640 so it comes through 00:39:47.640 --> 00:39:50.099 the philosophy 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.740 exploration 00:39:52.740 --> 00:39:56.700 you know for me to ask myself so what's 00:39:56.700 --> 00:39:59.220 my disposition before I hit my feet on 00:39:59.220 --> 00:40:02.099 the ground in the morning 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:05.640 kind of an interesting question 00:40:05.640 --> 00:40:08.339 in the middle of my lunch to say hey 00:40:08.339 --> 00:40:10.320 wait a minute what am I participating 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.680 with 00:40:15.180 --> 00:40:19.440 kind of simple stuff and yet this is the 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.760 way 00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:24.800 that it's practical for me 00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.300 there is this whole 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:34.200 you know peace 00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:37.079 I mean it's a big piece 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.579 let me just look around here 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.820 oh it's just Marie and Bonita 00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:48.180 and maybe one of the horse that inspired 00:40:48.180 --> 00:40:51.780 that picture but we've had a personal 00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.260 Direct 00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:55.859 connected 00:40:55.859 --> 00:40:58.260 experience of each other 00:40:58.260 --> 00:41:03.119 we know we were present with each other 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:07.500 so there's this uh camaraderie that's 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:09.960 very real as well 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:14.180 and that is practical 00:41:15.240 --> 00:41:17.700 okay having said that is is Kimberly 00:41:17.700 --> 00:41:19.320 still oh yeah 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.920 one thing about what Kimberly shared 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:24.839 she didn't come into the breakout 00:41:24.839 --> 00:41:27.180 thinking she was going to sing a song I 00:41:27.180 --> 00:41:29.160 mean I'm projecting that or I'm thinking 00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:30.119 that 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.400 it was something that just arose for her 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.800 and she just did it and we just kind of 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.000 flowed with it it was this kind of 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:41.640 the unfolding 00:41:41.640 --> 00:41:44.940 of the connection and the committed 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:47.760 listening and being together in that 00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.760 that happened so I was glad to have her 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.500 remind me of that 00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.839 that broke something to mind and I'm 00:41:57.839 --> 00:41:59.220 going to say it's practical research 00:41:59.220 --> 00:42:01.260 practical in my life 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:04.260 I was Thursday I was flipping through 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:08.160 the Washington Post online and I passed 00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.280 something and something in me 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:13.260 flipped back 00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:17.099 and I saw the word Embry now I'm retired 00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:17.760 and 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.920 this guy 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.020 um his wife died and I worked with him 00:42:22.020 --> 00:42:23.940 before I retired 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:26.940 and the Wake was the next day I said I 00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.099 need to be there I know I need to be 00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:31.280 there 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.140 so I went 00:42:34.140 --> 00:42:36.420 and I hugged him I told him I was sorry 00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:38.760 I told him I loved loved him and he 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.220 cried and I cried and I spoke to him for 00:42:41.220 --> 00:42:42.900 a while and I left 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:44.339 but 00:42:44.339 --> 00:42:47.099 what occurs in these spaces in this 00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:50.460 space is it loosens up 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.160 thoughts that I have shells that I 00:42:53.160 --> 00:42:56.040 created of knowing something so that I 00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:58.380 can pick up stuff like that and act on 00:42:58.380 --> 00:43:01.220 it when it's time to 00:43:09.720 --> 00:43:12.780 yeah it resonates just these last few 00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:17.579 weeks um I've come to see my uh mum at 00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:20.520 Spain and it was 00:43:20.520 --> 00:43:22.920 well I came here to support her through 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:24.780 her husband passing 00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:26.880 um we got here like five days before and 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.460 I've been out here another like almost 00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:31.980 two weeks since and 00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:34.319 yeah just even in that and just the way 00:43:34.319 --> 00:43:35.579 that I'm 00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:38.700 just being present with her and even 00:43:38.700 --> 00:43:40.800 just trying to 00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:42.540 um 00:43:42.540 --> 00:43:44.579 yeah it's just I'm you know I'm trying 00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:46.560 to just help her like kind of through 00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:49.859 this moment but also kind of like set 00:43:49.859 --> 00:43:52.140 herself up for like kind of going 00:43:52.140 --> 00:43:53.400 forward 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:55.980 um I just found that so much that 00:43:55.980 --> 00:43:57.119 there's like there's lots of little 00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:58.920 things it's just hard to name 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:01.680 but just ways that I'm able to kind of 00:44:01.680 --> 00:44:04.560 show up and kind of move energy and like 00:44:04.560 --> 00:44:07.920 kind of really be attentive to like her 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.520 and her energy and also like 00:44:11.520 --> 00:44:13.980 yeah just knowing which bits to kind of 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:16.079 I don't know sometimes just to 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:17.940 to give some 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:20.400 support to and like kind of and like how 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.500 to maybe yeah see it see a kind of a 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:23.819 thought or a line that's kind of maybe 00:44:23.819 --> 00:44:26.400 going somewhere that like uh and just 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:28.380 like little ways of just 00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:29.520 um 00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:31.920 yeah just I guess just really really 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:33.300 being present 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:36.119 um with her and just like 00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:38.520 no encounter 00:44:38.520 --> 00:44:43.579 kind of take on like 00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:46.380 I guess like kind of yeah be be with her 00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.420 without like kind of taking on things in 00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:50.040 a way that's also like kind of not good 00:44:50.040 --> 00:44:52.079 for me or like kind of just again just 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.420 there's ways of just 00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:56.940 yeah moving energy that I feel like I've 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:59.819 definitely developed a lot of skill in 00:44:59.819 --> 00:45:02.819 spaces 00:45:06.500 --> 00:45:09.740 moving energy 00:45:11.220 --> 00:45:13.920 on it speaking of having embodied 3D 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.560 memories of people I have that with JJ 00:45:16.560 --> 00:45:17.640 and 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:20.400 hearing the story about his caretaking 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.339 brings up memories of how JJ shows up in 00:45:23.339 --> 00:45:24.900 the world which 00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:28.140 uh it's just yeah 00:45:28.140 --> 00:45:30.180 brings up a lot a lot of very good 00:45:30.180 --> 00:45:32.099 feelings for me um 00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:35.400 and that phrase moving energy 00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:36.000 um 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.460 often yeah the public school is the 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:39.660 place where I come to have things 00:45:39.660 --> 00:45:42.000 pointed at that like I have a hard time 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.640 seeing I'm like what is I 00:45:44.640 --> 00:45:49.579 I get what are you pointing at uh and 00:45:49.579 --> 00:45:52.800 uh but part of what 00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:55.099 I've noticed a lot of arousal energy 00:45:55.099 --> 00:45:58.380 I'll put it that way moment it's like 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.859 damn this is a lot as I'm sitting here 00:46:01.859 --> 00:46:04.980 but part of and that's an image having 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:06.900 something pointed at that I can't see 00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:09.780 trying to like bring that image back 00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:12.359 into my body and be with this arousal 00:46:12.359 --> 00:46:15.240 energy in a different way that I am 00:46:15.240 --> 00:46:17.700 being challenged or provoked into 00:46:17.700 --> 00:46:20.760 holding uh in new ways and I still don't 00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:22.560 still 00:46:22.560 --> 00:46:24.960 still trying to figure that one out and 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.839 then even in real time right now right 00:46:27.839 --> 00:46:30.300 here and I suspect it has something to 00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:31.920 do with what Bonnie wrote down I want 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.200 the words to come out of my mouth the 00:46:34.200 --> 00:46:35.819 way the dance comes out of my body 00:46:35.819 --> 00:46:40.380 entirely free of my mind so that's a big 00:46:40.380 --> 00:46:43.260 yeah yeah 00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:45.720 how to how to let this 00:46:45.720 --> 00:46:50.220 what's right here uh 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.319 blow out to everything that's out there 00:46:52.319 --> 00:46:55.560 in new ways uh potentially 00:46:55.560 --> 00:46:57.420 still squinting though 00:46:57.420 --> 00:46:59.480 yeah 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.660 okay I'll have to tell a story 00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:09.599 are we ready for a story like that has 00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.940 nothing to do with this but 00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:15.319 has something to do with this 00:47:15.720 --> 00:47:18.480 uh so you know I 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.599 just spent 30 years trying to figure out 00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:26.579 horses and what a horse is and I had 00:47:26.579 --> 00:47:27.900 this 00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:30.180 I still have her she's quite old now 00:47:30.180 --> 00:47:33.119 this horse that I was doing 100 mile 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.700 endurance races with 00:47:35.700 --> 00:47:39.060 and the problem was she was too 00:47:39.060 --> 00:47:40.680 competitive like 00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:43.500 I had to start two hours after everybody 00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:47.400 else started because if she saw like 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:51.060 horses in front of her she just got like 00:47:51.060 --> 00:47:54.060 way too competitive and I'm like 00:47:54.060 --> 00:47:55.560 yeah but 00:47:55.560 --> 00:47:58.020 we gotta go 100 miles you can't like 00:47:58.020 --> 00:48:01.339 expend your whole energy 00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:04.319 you know like so endurance writing you 00:48:04.319 --> 00:48:06.359 have to be very patient and understand 00:48:06.359 --> 00:48:10.560 the long Arc and I happen to have bought 00:48:10.560 --> 00:48:14.040 a horse that was very uh short-term racy 00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:15.780 so 00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:20.160 I started working with this horse Guru 00:48:20.160 --> 00:48:22.280 um 00:48:23.339 --> 00:48:25.619 I don't know how much you want to know 00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:27.359 about her but she's 00:48:27.359 --> 00:48:32.160 she was lived in a very rural area and 00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:36.180 her father made these living by training 00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:37.680 ponies 00:48:37.680 --> 00:48:40.440 but he had his young children train 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:42.960 ponies because they weren't 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:46.079 big enough to push them around so they 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.560 had to actually use clever ways to train 00:48:49.560 --> 00:48:50.760 ponies 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.920 and this is how this woman got to be 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:57.900 uh so clever about 00:48:57.900 --> 00:49:00.300 horses because she trained them since 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:02.220 she was like four or five years old 00:49:02.220 --> 00:49:05.359 didn't go to school 00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:07.680 and 00:49:07.680 --> 00:49:09.540 um because if you're that little and you 00:49:09.540 --> 00:49:11.760 have a pony and you can't push it around 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.079 you have to figure out how to 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.000 communicate with it 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:17.460 so 00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:19.640 um 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.460 now I have I got lost in my story and I 00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:28.200 tried to figure out how I'm gonna get it 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:31.380 I wanted to bridge this with Sam but the 00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:34.020 whole point is it's like 00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:36.140 um 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:41.579 what were you saying Sam okay I have to 00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:44.540 bring myself out of the story and two 00:49:44.540 --> 00:49:47.099 uh reality here 00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:49.980 and that is 00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:52.160 um 00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:04.500 so the whole journey was like I made it 00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:07.339 too complex 00:50:07.680 --> 00:50:10.380 like I I confronted the horse and I was 00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:12.300 like why isn't she like me what isn't 00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:15.180 she care about me what you know the 00:50:15.180 --> 00:50:18.119 whole situation was too complex and my 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:21.060 point here which I'm trying to make is 00:50:21.060 --> 00:50:25.040 that I have nothing to teach 00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:28.740 all I'm trying to do like I have this 00:50:28.740 --> 00:50:31.740 this this thing I say all the time you 00:50:31.740 --> 00:50:34.020 know you see these videos of cows 00:50:34.020 --> 00:50:37.319 getting on grass for the first time and 00:50:37.319 --> 00:50:38.880 they think it's an extraordinary 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.780 experience because literally what 00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:45.420 they're feeling is like this amazing 00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:47.339 State experience 00:50:47.339 --> 00:50:50.760 but cows and grass 00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:53.700 it's just natural right but if you've 00:50:53.700 --> 00:50:56.760 been deprived of that when you get put 00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:58.819 in this experience you're like 00:50:58.819 --> 00:51:02.099 whoa like this is like some high State 00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:03.480 experience 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.180 and all I'm trying to do in the office 00:51:06.180 --> 00:51:09.540 go is put the cows 00:51:09.540 --> 00:51:11.640 on the grass 00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:14.220 everything else is the complexity of 00:51:14.220 --> 00:51:17.099 language and all this stuff 00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:20.339 once I started to realize like 00:51:20.339 --> 00:51:22.980 what is a horse 00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:25.680 they're not that they're they're complex 00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:27.540 in the sense that they're complexly 00:51:27.540 --> 00:51:31.740 embedded in nature and stuff like that 00:51:31.740 --> 00:51:35.160 but they're the complexity is elegant 00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:39.240 that as on Old Nas would say 00:51:39.240 --> 00:51:43.819 we want to understand elegant complexity 00:51:43.819 --> 00:51:46.800 which is life-bearing or life-giving 00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.140 those words sometimes are too 00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:55.920 what is elegant complexity you know like 00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.579 so 00:51:58.740 --> 00:52:01.559 and I'll tell one other story so because 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.839 I didn't get from here to there 00:52:03.839 --> 00:52:05.220 uh 00:52:05.220 --> 00:52:06.559 quickly 00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.079 and with my horse Guru 00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:11.460 oh 00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:14.460 who ate squirrels when she was kids when 00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:16.559 I talked about 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:17.339 um 00:52:17.339 --> 00:52:19.700 she also was third in the world 00:52:19.700 --> 00:52:22.500 championships five times and you know 00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:24.920 like 00:52:25.319 --> 00:52:28.440 but one time she's like she took me to 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.920 this 00:52:31.200 --> 00:52:33.720 workshop with horses 00:52:33.720 --> 00:52:37.319 I took my my mare this 00:52:37.319 --> 00:52:40.819 hyper uh competitive mayor 00:52:40.819 --> 00:52:42.310 and 00:52:42.310 --> 00:52:42.780 [Music] 00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:43.740 um 00:52:43.740 --> 00:52:46.559 we were in this really really she was 00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:48.540 not a fancy she didn't have fancy 00:52:48.540 --> 00:52:50.880 facilities I don't have fancy facilities 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:51.839 but 00:52:51.839 --> 00:52:55.140 we were asked to demo in this really 00:52:55.140 --> 00:52:58.380 fancy facility and we were in this huge 00:52:58.380 --> 00:53:02.119 Arena and there was like there's glass 00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:04.680 Amphitheater where like these rich 00:53:04.680 --> 00:53:07.079 people were looking at us working with 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:09.619 my horse 00:53:09.780 --> 00:53:11.700 and 00:53:11.700 --> 00:53:16.319 that was really weird to me and 00:53:16.319 --> 00:53:18.780 my horse and so I'm trying to do these 00:53:18.780 --> 00:53:20.880 things that she taught me my horses all 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.440 over the place 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.020 but it's really like my horse she's 00:53:25.020 --> 00:53:29.819 she's jumping she's wearing shoes 00:53:29.819 --> 00:53:31.200 like 00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:33.960 a lot of Chaos 00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:36.780 and my horse Guru comes over to me and 00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:38.040 she says 00:53:38.040 --> 00:53:39.119 um 00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:42.180 Margaret Beeman she says like you gotta 00:53:42.180 --> 00:53:44.520 slow yourself down 00:53:44.520 --> 00:53:47.099 and so then I try to slow myself down 00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:49.800 and it's still not working and then 00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.300 she's like no slow yourself down and she 00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:57.380 took my hands 00:53:57.780 --> 00:54:00.900 and she pushed me on the ground like 00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:05.160 that and she walked me like this one 00:54:05.160 --> 00:54:07.559 two three 00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:10.859 four and I'm like no I'm quit 00:54:10.859 --> 00:54:13.260 people are watching 00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:15.000 and she's 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.220 stuck her finger up her nose and said 00:54:17.220 --> 00:54:19.859 well what are you worried about whether 00:54:19.859 --> 00:54:21.780 you can control your horse or the 00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:24.599 people are watching 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:29.119 I mean literally she did that 00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:32.760 this was a reflection of how up I 00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.000 was 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.839 literally 00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:44.579 it's not complex you see what I'm saying 00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:48.900 it's not complex it's not rocket 00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:51.319 science 00:54:52.980 --> 00:54:56.660 it is laws that we understand 00:54:56.660 --> 00:55:01.800 intuitively as people and we neglect 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.180 you see what I'm saying 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.319 you see what I'm saying this is what we 00:55:10.319 --> 00:55:13.380 have to teach 00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:16.800 the rest is like the complexity of 00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:18.540 getting from here to there getting 00:55:18.540 --> 00:55:21.359 someone who's got like all these ideas 00:55:21.359 --> 00:55:23.400 and this and that 00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:28.680 getting the rest is just uh 00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:32.940 getting from here to there 00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:36.559 yeah so what do you think about that 00:55:46.380 --> 00:55:50.640 what do you think about that I 00:55:50.640 --> 00:55:54.839 I had like I had goosebumps running 00:55:54.839 --> 00:55:56.640 um on my back 00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:59.339 um and I feel it in my face I had tears 00:55:59.339 --> 00:56:01.079 coming to my eyes when you said about 00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:04.140 the cows being on the grass that's what 00:56:04.140 --> 00:56:05.760 you're trying to do here 00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:08.099 I'm in awe that's what I think about 00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:10.400 that 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.640 and I want to say for those who are 00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:31.500 listening if they watch this recording 00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:34.859 we're not talking about humans getting 00:56:34.859 --> 00:56:36.540 on the grass 00:56:36.540 --> 00:56:39.540 in a physical sense because humans want 00:56:39.540 --> 00:56:41.700 to get on to language humans want to get 00:56:41.700 --> 00:56:46.680 on Concepts it's not we're not trying to 00:56:46.680 --> 00:56:49.380 negate 00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:52.980 the other expressions of Being Human 00:56:52.980 --> 00:56:55.859 but we want us to really really 00:56:55.859 --> 00:56:59.099 understand what is the grass 00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:01.680 for humans 00:57:01.680 --> 00:57:04.319 versus the machine 00:57:04.319 --> 00:57:05.880 right 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:11.099 so one we're not saying grass like okay 00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:13.440 so you become a vegan 00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:15.420 we're not reductionists like that but 00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:17.880 what is 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:21.240 grass for human versus maybe the machine 00:57:21.240 --> 00:57:24.240 whatever 00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:27.359 yeah and I know that's not what you're 00:57:27.359 --> 00:57:30.480 saying Eric but I just wanted to 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:35.180 uh make sure people understood that 00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:42.660 all right so I have something unrelated 00:57:42.660 --> 00:57:43.920 to say 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.119 or maybe related 00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:51.480 okay I want to say it's never unrelated 00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.619 when you speak 00:57:57.180 --> 00:58:00.800 um now I forgot what it was 00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:05.819 so 00:58:05.819 --> 00:58:09.140 a friend of mine says 00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:12.599 okay so Charles eisenstein says 00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.720 that uh I'm totally into 00:58:15.720 --> 00:58:18.540 um the leadership possible leadership of 00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:22.319 uh Robert Kennedy I'm very excited I'm 00:58:22.319 --> 00:58:25.800 very deeply moved and excited and but 00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:27.359 the thing is what Charles eisenstein 00:58:27.359 --> 00:58:28.980 says is that 00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:31.700 uh 00:58:31.819 --> 00:58:36.119 he can't change anything 00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:40.020 without us like he can't anyone any 00:58:40.020 --> 00:58:42.240 leader quote-unquote leader cannot speak 00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:45.599 something new into a field if the field 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.160 isn't eating it you know hungry for it 00:58:50.160 --> 00:58:52.799 so there's nothing that can change in 00:58:52.799 --> 00:58:54.540 our world and whether or not you like 00:58:54.540 --> 00:58:57.660 RFK there's nothing that can change 00:58:57.660 --> 00:59:02.339 unless we are an embodiment of the 00:59:02.339 --> 00:59:05.640 change that we want to see catalyze 00:59:05.640 --> 00:59:07.020 somewhere 00:59:07.020 --> 00:59:10.880 and my friend says 00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.000 you know we have to become 00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.720 we have to come into our own 00:59:18.720 --> 00:59:20.460 purest 00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:22.020 finest 00:59:22.020 --> 00:59:25.020 vibration ourselves 00:59:25.020 --> 00:59:30.020 and that we have we um 00:59:30.359 --> 00:59:34.400 and maybe that's like eating the grass 00:59:35.339 --> 00:59:38.400 and meanwhile 00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:40.740 I was watching a congressional hearing 00:59:40.740 --> 00:59:44.460 and there was a a Democrat a couple 00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:46.859 Democrats who got me so 00:59:46.859 --> 00:59:49.020 pissed off 00:59:49.020 --> 00:59:52.380 I became so hateful 00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:55.619 listening to what I thought was hateful 00:59:55.619 --> 00:59:58.619 so here we have this hateful hateful 00:59:58.619 --> 01:00:01.740 that's the world we live in polarity 01:00:01.740 --> 01:00:04.200 reactivity 01:00:04.200 --> 01:00:04.859 um 01:00:04.859 --> 01:00:07.319 and 01:00:07.319 --> 01:00:10.680 and meanwhile in this particular the 01:00:10.680 --> 01:00:14.240 censorship thing I was watching 01:00:14.520 --> 01:00:17.819 he had some stuff leveled at him that 01:00:17.819 --> 01:00:20.400 was hateful that was trying to censor 01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:22.920 him in the censorship thing and what I 01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:26.220 watched him do was 01:00:26.220 --> 01:00:28.079 well the first thing he did addressing 01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:31.260 this woman was refer to something that 01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:32.339 she said 01:00:32.339 --> 01:00:34.559 that moved him 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:38.520 that touched him and lift up 01:00:38.520 --> 01:00:41.520 the the the beauty in her own life 01:00:41.520 --> 01:00:45.119 purpose so I saw him go from this 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:46.579 hateful hateful 01:00:46.579 --> 01:00:48.359 to 01:00:48.359 --> 01:00:50.420 um 01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.240 curving space 01:00:57.240 --> 01:01:00.720 by being more 01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:02.700 um 01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:06.059 really who he is and by lots of things 01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:08.760 taking ownership all sorts of things but 01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:12.380 so the challenge is 01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:21.200 to go so far beyond 01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:25.400 how we know how to be with each other 01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:30.599 and also to take responsibility for 01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:33.540 every time 01:01:33.540 --> 01:01:36.780 I see something out there 01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:40.559 that uh gets me angry 01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:43.380 that I don't like 01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:47.960 um that I contract around 01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:51.920 and now how can I be 01:01:53.339 --> 01:01:55.680 somebody new 01:01:55.680 --> 01:01:58.819 in that context 01:01:59.160 --> 01:02:02.160 so that that person 01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:05.040 has something new available 01:02:05.040 --> 01:02:06.960 there's new energy 01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:09.720 and it's like the idea of Mana 01:02:09.720 --> 01:02:12.299 you can't carry it with you 01:02:12.299 --> 01:02:16.079 it's always something 01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:17.400 uh 01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:21.799 that's available if we're available 01:02:24.059 --> 01:02:27.319 so that's what I'm working with 01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:11.700 so one thing we might 01:03:11.700 --> 01:03:14.160 um do 01:03:14.160 --> 01:03:19.160 or not it's completely up to 01:03:19.740 --> 01:03:24.260 what we feel here is to 01:03:29.520 --> 01:03:32.099 integrate this with 01:03:32.099 --> 01:03:34.819 like 01:03:35.640 --> 01:03:38.099 we've been working on this new theory of 01:03:38.099 --> 01:03:41.220 the body like like 01:03:41.220 --> 01:03:43.339 um 01:04:03.540 --> 01:04:07.460 how does this um 01:04:07.579 --> 01:04:10.799 redefine what a body is 01:04:10.799 --> 01:04:12.599 or 01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:15.799 um integrate with 01:04:16.200 --> 01:04:18.319 um 01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:24.540 I got Justin wrote a comment 01:04:24.540 --> 01:04:27.359 today that takes a little further or it 01:04:27.359 --> 01:04:30.180 takes it takes this this course 01:04:30.180 --> 01:04:32.339 trajectory 01:04:32.339 --> 01:04:34.440 because we've been working a lot with 01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:38.660 putting their mind back into the body 01:04:38.819 --> 01:04:42.780 um and Justin wrote a comment today I 01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:48.720 can't remember what and what thread but 01:04:48.720 --> 01:04:50.099 um 01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:53.160 which we're going to return to in the 01:04:53.160 --> 01:04:55.260 fall and that is like and then put the 01:04:55.260 --> 01:04:58.920 body back into nature right 01:04:58.920 --> 01:04:59.579 um 01:04:59.579 --> 01:05:01.920 so maybe we could think about the 01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.140 trajectory 01:05:04.140 --> 01:05:06.140 um 01:05:08.819 --> 01:05:11.780 just a thought 01:05:18.240 --> 01:05:22.280 um my thoughts with that is that 01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:26.339 the mind never really left the body 01:05:26.339 --> 01:05:29.700 the body really never left nature 01:05:29.700 --> 01:05:32.579 however there's many models or ways of 01:05:32.579 --> 01:05:34.319 thinking frames of viewing the world 01:05:34.319 --> 01:05:36.720 which locate the Mind somewhere outside 01:05:36.720 --> 01:05:39.119 of the body locate the individual or the 01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:41.640 self somewhere outside of nature 01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:42.540 um 01:05:42.540 --> 01:05:44.460 so it's really nice to have models and 01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.040 Frames to help us see the models and 01:05:47.040 --> 01:05:48.420 frames that kind of 01:05:48.420 --> 01:05:50.760 separate mind from body and body from 01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:52.020 nature 01:05:52.020 --> 01:05:53.280 um 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:55.380 and can kind of 01:05:55.380 --> 01:05:58.400 break that spell 01:05:59.520 --> 01:06:00.839 that's one of the things I've been 01:06:00.839 --> 01:06:06.180 really benefiting from in this course uh 01:06:06.240 --> 01:06:09.059 just having 01:06:09.059 --> 01:06:13.140 some tools to look at what frames 01:06:13.140 --> 01:06:15.660 are kind of presupposing mind outside of 01:06:15.660 --> 01:06:17.940 body presupposing body outside of Nature 01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:20.880 and um 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:22.799 seeing that Napier it's actually a lot 01:06:22.799 --> 01:06:25.079 simpler than that maybe I don't need to 01:06:25.079 --> 01:06:27.960 do Parts work and maybe 01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:30.020 um 01:06:33.539 --> 01:06:34.859 yeah 01:06:34.859 --> 01:06:36.420 Parts work is the thing that's come into 01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:38.339 mind right now but there's there's so 01:06:38.339 --> 01:06:40.200 many therapeutic modalities leadership 01:06:40.200 --> 01:06:41.880 modalities 01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:42.599 um 01:06:42.599 --> 01:06:45.660 community building modalities that 01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:48.299 actually presuppose a separation deep 01:06:48.299 --> 01:06:51.059 down at the core 01:06:51.059 --> 01:06:54.980 and they've they don't feel right 01:06:57.359 --> 01:06:59.640 so 01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:02.700 yeah I'm interested in um 01:07:02.700 --> 01:07:06.180 how to act from a place that is 01:07:06.180 --> 01:07:07.619 where we don't even have to talk of 01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:09.960 about mind back and body body back in 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:12.480 nature just like that's the way it is we 01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:16.280 all agree let's let's act from there 01:07:22.619 --> 01:07:25.859 yeah to uh 01:07:25.859 --> 01:07:27.660 say something along those lines I kind 01:07:27.660 --> 01:07:29.039 of come at it from a little bit of a 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.039 different angle because I 01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:33.539 feel like I've put my body back into 01:07:33.539 --> 01:07:36.299 nature first like and it's just been 01:07:36.299 --> 01:07:38.160 really interesting 01:07:38.160 --> 01:07:39.000 um 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.000 because the body knows the body knows 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.299 how to be like in nature it's it's I've 01:07:45.299 --> 01:07:47.520 just been noticing as I've been out in 01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:49.160 this pretty open 01:07:49.160 --> 01:07:52.920 landscape that I lived on 01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:54.420 um I haven't had to have much 01:07:54.420 --> 01:07:56.880 instruction my body has just kind of 01:07:56.880 --> 01:08:00.240 known how to move and 01:08:00.240 --> 01:08:02.339 um it's really 01:08:02.339 --> 01:08:04.980 changed my thinking and 01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:07.680 um but yeah I think it's going back to 01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:10.020 that thing of simplifying it's not 01:08:10.020 --> 01:08:11.880 nearly as complicated as we make it and 01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:14.520 if we can get our body back into nature 01:08:14.520 --> 01:08:18.060 more freely readily easily our body will 01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:19.500 just know our body just kind of knows 01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:20.819 what to do at least that's how I've 01:08:20.819 --> 01:08:22.920 experienced 01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:27.199 my my participation in that 01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:39.600 yeah I realized when are you speaking 01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:42.420 Eric for the first time it occurred to 01:08:42.420 --> 01:08:44.520 me oh I've been here for a little while 01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:45.660 now 01:08:45.660 --> 01:08:49.020 and I thought oh that's interesting and 01:08:49.020 --> 01:08:52.380 then what arose or what I was aware of 01:08:52.380 --> 01:08:54.359 is that 01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:56.640 and and this has occurred to me a few 01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:58.980 times just recently 01:08:58.980 --> 01:09:02.640 that what is happening for me here 01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:04.679 there's a lot of things happening but 01:09:04.679 --> 01:09:07.920 what is initially happening always 01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:10.199 is that 01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:14.400 there is an invitation to come and see 01:09:14.400 --> 01:09:18.000 and I love that and I can see it's 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.779 beautifully like I know I hear what 01:09:21.779 --> 01:09:23.759 you've been saying about 01:09:23.759 --> 01:09:25.679 where you see 01:09:25.679 --> 01:09:28.140 yourself Benita 01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:32.400 um but I I see a beautiful that's an 01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:35.819 elegant structure it's beautiful how the 01:09:35.819 --> 01:09:38.160 invitation is given and how it's put 01:09:38.160 --> 01:09:42.600 together and how I can enter and be in 01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:47.100 that space and it's not even a space 01:09:47.100 --> 01:09:49.440 um it's to be with what's real 01:09:49.440 --> 01:09:51.719 and it's really simple 01:09:51.719 --> 01:09:55.380 and I really love that and I would just 01:09:55.380 --> 01:09:58.380 share one experience which I can only 01:09:58.380 --> 01:10:01.620 use metaphors but it's real because I 01:10:01.620 --> 01:10:03.960 don't I can't quite get the words we did 01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:06.360 the session on awareness 01:10:06.360 --> 01:10:09.719 I I came to the second session and all I 01:10:09.719 --> 01:10:11.820 kept doing was smiling 01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:14.460 and I'm still smiling I'm always smiling 01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:18.120 I go places and nothing's changed really 01:10:18.120 --> 01:10:20.699 like there's a sense in which nothing at 01:10:20.699 --> 01:10:22.800 all has changed my life just people are 01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:24.960 like they are and situations are like 01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:27.659 they are but everything has changed and 01:10:27.659 --> 01:10:29.580 I just smile 01:10:29.580 --> 01:10:34.020 and how it is for me and partly your 01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:37.860 Holly I can't quite 01:10:37.860 --> 01:10:42.420 see or be we same as you but it's like 01:10:42.420 --> 01:10:44.460 what happened was after that session 01:10:44.460 --> 01:10:46.800 it's like there was a knock on the door 01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:48.060 right 01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:51.900 and I just opened the door and it's like 01:10:51.900 --> 01:10:54.780 the whole world says well where have you 01:10:54.780 --> 01:10:57.380 been like 01:10:57.380 --> 01:11:00.420 we're here haven't you don't you 01:11:00.420 --> 01:11:02.219 remember all those little and I do I 01:11:02.219 --> 01:11:05.280 remember all those not all of them but I 01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:09.179 remember lots of incidents where yeah 01:11:09.179 --> 01:11:11.820 I didn't know the world was here I did 01:11:11.820 --> 01:11:15.239 feel that but now it's like 01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:18.780 yeah I get the grass 01:11:18.780 --> 01:11:22.199 I think it's a very very beautiful 01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:24.000 um and I have quite a lot of energy 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.860 around 01:11:25.860 --> 01:11:26.580 um 01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:28.560 a lot of stuff that's been said like a 01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:30.960 lot of sparkings going on 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:33.360 um and I would like to respond to shreky 01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:36.179 now or srina if I may 01:11:36.179 --> 01:11:37.080 um 01:11:37.080 --> 01:11:39.780 as as the 01:11:39.780 --> 01:11:42.719 the feminine Divine I just would like to 01:11:42.719 --> 01:11:45.719 say that the presentation of that in the 01:11:45.719 --> 01:11:50.460 1300s was was not about a separation 01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:53.820 there was no separation offered in in 01:11:53.820 --> 01:11:57.239 the Zohar in the Kabbalah about 01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:59.640 the masculine and feminine it was like 01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:03.840 oh no it's about a union about you don't 01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.360 have the separation at all It's Tricky 01:12:06.360 --> 01:12:07.800 now 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.080 um you might call it presents 01:12:10.080 --> 01:12:15.239 and I really I hear all this talk here a 01:12:15.239 --> 01:12:20.280 lot today about something new but what I 01:12:20.280 --> 01:12:23.040 really love about the Zohar is it's 01:12:23.040 --> 01:12:24.719 ancient anew 01:12:24.719 --> 01:12:27.900 it's it's it's you you you're just not 01:12:27.900 --> 01:12:29.760 doing the separation game 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.040 I really love that 01:12:32.040 --> 01:12:35.699 um and that feels also real to me 01:12:35.699 --> 01:12:37.920 um you know I'm not separating the 01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:41.880 separating 01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:43.500 yeah I don't know if any of that makes 01:12:43.500 --> 01:12:46.080 any sense but it's been 01:12:46.080 --> 01:12:48.179 I really love being here and you people 01:12:48.179 --> 01:12:50.219 are absolutely amazing and thank you 01:12:50.219 --> 01:12:53.420 very much they're very cool 01:13:16.860 --> 01:13:19.260 okay so we know at some point we're 01:13:19.260 --> 01:13:22.920 gonna call on Catalia 01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:26.420 but not right now maybe 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:30.659 um but I feel the energy there and uh 01:13:30.659 --> 01:13:33.060 David who has extraordinary 01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:35.120 interpersonal 01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:39.199 intuition uh maybe the person 01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:44.000 who can open that portal 01:13:54.540 --> 01:13:57.120 I'd rather just quote a friend of mine 01:13:57.120 --> 01:13:59.040 stand up and say something anything 01:13:59.040 --> 01:14:01.940 Catalia 01:14:03.900 --> 01:14:06.300 hello 01:14:06.300 --> 01:14:08.460 um so happy to be here I've been 01:14:08.460 --> 01:14:09.780 watching you guys like I've been 01:14:09.780 --> 01:14:11.760 watching videos for like months and 01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:13.620 months now so it's actually really 01:14:13.620 --> 01:14:15.840 surreal to be like actually in it I keep 01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:17.640 forgetting that I'm actually in the 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:19.500 video call now 01:14:19.500 --> 01:14:21.900 um right now I'm actually terrified like 01:14:21.900 --> 01:14:26.219 we're like nervous and like shaking 01:14:26.219 --> 01:14:28.679 um but like kind of chill as well but 01:14:28.679 --> 01:14:30.840 just talking about 01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:35.219 I don't know I find my words um 01:14:35.219 --> 01:14:38.000 I like it's 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:42.239 like undeniable to me that like I'm very 01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:45.600 trapped in the mind or I have been and 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:50.100 you know like would like I don't know 01:14:50.100 --> 01:14:54.080 for me it's like um all the 01:14:54.420 --> 01:14:56.760 all the beautiful things like in nature 01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:59.040 I'm like downfall like I can be in my 01:14:59.040 --> 01:15:02.280 body for that but like I think when you 01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:03.840 realize that you're really mind trapped 01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:06.000 you've been mind trapped and you know 01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.320 your senses are really dull 01:15:09.659 --> 01:15:10.380 um 01:15:10.380 --> 01:15:12.060 you're kind of like in a little bit of 01:15:12.060 --> 01:15:14.159 danger I don't know like you know what I 01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:15.780 mean like I'm like I'm down for like the 01:15:15.780 --> 01:15:17.520 good stuff like you know we talk about 01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:20.520 like you know being in a I wanna I Wanna 01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:21.900 Dance 01:15:21.900 --> 01:15:24.840 as well but like you know 01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:26.400 it's a lot of 01:15:26.400 --> 01:15:29.480 I don't know do you know 01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:32.340 it's like a lot of the 01:15:32.340 --> 01:15:34.080 a lot of the dancing is also like scary 01:15:34.080 --> 01:15:35.880 as well like and you know not 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:37.980 necessarily stuff I want to do but it's 01:15:37.980 --> 01:15:39.719 also like 01:15:39.719 --> 01:15:41.940 a part of it like yeah I don't know 01:15:41.940 --> 01:15:44.699 that's all I have to say I'm like 01:15:44.699 --> 01:15:47.760 I want to do this like I I'm like 01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:50.159 but I'm also so scared as well like I'm 01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:53.040 I'm down for the stuff I like but I'm 01:15:53.040 --> 01:15:55.860 scared of the stuff I don't like 01:15:55.860 --> 01:16:00.540 you know but yeah so this is a beautiful 01:16:00.540 --> 01:16:02.420 invitation 01:16:02.420 --> 01:16:04.199 to 01:16:04.199 --> 01:16:05.940 um bring forth 01:16:05.940 --> 01:16:07.080 um 01:16:07.080 --> 01:16:09.540 some voices that are in the same 01:16:09.540 --> 01:16:10.739 position 01:16:10.739 --> 01:16:13.980 so what is the pull of the Mind why does 01:16:13.980 --> 01:16:16.260 the mind 01:16:16.260 --> 01:16:18.060 the mind 01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:20.640 uh have this 01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:26.040 power to pull us out of Nature and dance 01:16:26.040 --> 01:16:28.020 does this resonate with what you're 01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:31.020 saying like like there's this there's 01:16:31.020 --> 01:16:33.780 this feeling that nature and dance is my 01:16:33.780 --> 01:16:37.020 home but what is this other thing that 01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:40.440 what is this other Paul 01:16:40.440 --> 01:16:45.060 so I'm thinking Matt and JJ and Sam 01:16:45.060 --> 01:16:48.480 um maybe Aaron 01:16:48.480 --> 01:16:50.760 um Kimberly maybe 01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:52.020 um 01:16:52.020 --> 01:16:54.500 or anyone 01:16:54.500 --> 01:16:57.659 what is that struggle 01:16:57.659 --> 01:17:00.420 what is that struggle 01:17:00.420 --> 01:17:01.739 yeah 01:17:01.739 --> 01:17:04.620 tell us out 01:17:04.620 --> 01:17:09.239 um I mean for me this struggle is really 01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:13.080 it has to do with death disease decay 01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:15.120 pain 01:17:15.120 --> 01:17:17.040 down to be in my body but my body's 01:17:17.040 --> 01:17:19.260 gonna rot it's going to die It suffers 01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:21.060 it breaks 01:17:21.060 --> 01:17:22.620 um 01:17:22.620 --> 01:17:25.500 so there's this pull to kind of get away 01:17:25.500 --> 01:17:27.480 to find something transcended to find 01:17:27.480 --> 01:17:30.860 something that is um 01:17:30.900 --> 01:17:35.840 not as ephemeral or fragile 01:17:37.739 --> 01:17:40.679 susceptible to 01:17:40.679 --> 01:17:44.659 getting just hurt 01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:51.719 yeah I resonate with that 01:17:51.719 --> 01:17:55.380 um I I think there's a tremendous amount 01:17:55.380 --> 01:17:59.000 of courage and vulnerability involved in 01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:02.640 connecting with the place that is 01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:04.140 me 01:18:04.140 --> 01:18:06.360 um and specifically in dance I'm not 01:18:06.360 --> 01:18:08.159 sure 01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:09.239 um 01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:12.960 Catalia what kind of dance you are 01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:15.360 curious about but 01:18:15.360 --> 01:18:17.219 um 01:18:17.219 --> 01:18:19.440 takes courage to enter into a dance 01:18:19.440 --> 01:18:21.540 space and be improvisational for some 01:18:21.540 --> 01:18:23.880 people and to try something entirely new 01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:26.640 or allow their body to lead them into 01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:29.040 movement and to listen to that and 01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:29.940 follow 01:18:29.940 --> 01:18:32.760 for for other people it would take a 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:35.340 tremendous amount of courage to dance 01:18:35.340 --> 01:18:38.340 with another person 01:18:38.340 --> 01:18:41.699 and listen to another's body 01:18:41.699 --> 01:18:44.940 As you move 01:18:44.940 --> 01:18:46.860 um and so 01:18:46.860 --> 01:18:48.659 I think 01:18:48.659 --> 01:18:50.760 I think in terms of the question of like 01:18:50.760 --> 01:18:52.980 what the Mind gives us I think it gives 01:18:52.980 --> 01:18:55.580 us that separation from that 01:18:55.580 --> 01:18:58.560 vulnerability of being in touch with 01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:02.400 what is as it arises 01:19:02.400 --> 01:19:06.420 um and so I I totally relate to 01:19:06.420 --> 01:19:09.300 um what you're saying and and 01:19:09.300 --> 01:19:10.860 um 01:19:10.860 --> 01:19:13.920 and hear it so often in the work that I 01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:16.040 do 01:19:17.940 --> 01:19:20.880 yeah like um I want more novelty and 01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:22.800 more surprise like 01:19:22.800 --> 01:19:24.719 but then sometimes when I think about it 01:19:24.719 --> 01:19:27.780 I'm like oh but that I'm also like 01:19:27.780 --> 01:19:30.179 really scared of what I don't know and I 01:19:30.179 --> 01:19:32.100 think that's why I'm very like in my 01:19:32.100 --> 01:19:35.880 head but not 100 not completely like but 01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:39.480 that's a that's big like and that's 01:19:39.480 --> 01:19:41.820 where the courage has to come in and 01:19:41.820 --> 01:19:43.860 that needs to be yeah 01:19:43.860 --> 01:19:45.620 um 01:19:45.620 --> 01:19:49.739 uh like yeah the yeah worked on or 01:19:49.739 --> 01:19:51.420 that's where the practice is coming like 01:19:51.420 --> 01:19:54.260 that I get I guess 01:19:54.620 --> 01:19:57.179 I'm gonna take a shot at this 01:19:57.179 --> 01:19:58.620 um 01:19:58.620 --> 01:20:01.440 it seems to me that part of what the 01:20:01.440 --> 01:20:04.440 Mind does when it's making declarations 01:20:04.440 --> 01:20:06.480 and trying to create something in the 01:20:06.480 --> 01:20:10.020 world is trying to fix Motion in place 01:20:10.020 --> 01:20:12.179 which isn't isn't easy to do but when 01:20:12.179 --> 01:20:13.920 you're trying to create something that's 01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:15.900 what you're doing and if you want to 01:20:15.900 --> 01:20:16.800 really 01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:18.719 so if you want to be a lawyer you got to 01:20:18.719 --> 01:20:20.699 stay focused for a long time right and 01:20:20.699 --> 01:20:21.900 there's a certain amount of energy that 01:20:21.900 --> 01:20:26.040 gets bound up in that but it feels 01:20:26.040 --> 01:20:29.040 confining too it is creative but the 01:20:29.040 --> 01:20:30.659 narrowness of it means you're ignoring 01:20:30.659 --> 01:20:32.640 everything around you so 01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:36.360 I think oftentimes in my own experience 01:20:36.360 --> 01:20:38.940 I'll go oh my God that was stupid and 01:20:38.940 --> 01:20:40.620 the mind goes okay I got it you're 01:20:40.620 --> 01:20:42.659 stupid it just does what I tell them to 01:20:42.659 --> 01:20:45.000 do and it holds it tends to hold those 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:46.739 things in place and the more I repeat 01:20:46.739 --> 01:20:50.400 them the more solid like they become 01:20:50.400 --> 01:20:53.280 so part of what my product my 50 years 01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:55.500 of yoga is to let go 01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:58.920 as porous as I can be and I think 01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:02.040 this is my belief now is that there has 01:21:02.040 --> 01:21:04.560 to be a free-flowing oscillation between 01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:07.440 focused attention and letting go and 01:21:07.440 --> 01:21:09.480 making declarations to try to fix 01:21:09.480 --> 01:21:11.159 something in place and letting go 01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:12.960 because I do need some stability in my 01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:14.580 life I don't want to be free-floating 01:21:14.580 --> 01:21:16.199 completely 01:21:16.199 --> 01:21:18.840 but when I'm focused on something it's 01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:20.760 hard to let go when I'm free-floating 01:21:20.760 --> 01:21:23.820 it's hard to get back active so I had to 01:21:23.820 --> 01:21:25.440 allow the space 01:21:25.440 --> 01:21:28.500 to do both and notice when it's time to 01:21:28.500 --> 01:21:30.860 let go 01:21:33.179 --> 01:21:36.600 what comes up for me is uh I think about 01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:39.840 the mind's capacity to simulate and I 01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:41.460 kind of this you know Aaron was saying 01:21:41.460 --> 01:21:44.340 like guys this fear of death or you know 01:21:44.340 --> 01:21:46.560 it can be all kinds of fears that you're 01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:49.140 trying to like get ahead of to like 01:21:49.140 --> 01:21:51.900 figure out like yeah not just to fear 01:21:51.900 --> 01:21:53.880 like kind of 01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.820 this thing is like you you're diverging 01:21:56.820 --> 01:21:59.100 from your embodied reality to simulate 01:21:59.100 --> 01:22:01.739 something so that you can like figure 01:22:01.739 --> 01:22:03.540 out maybe ahead of time with these kind 01:22:03.540 --> 01:22:04.620 of things but then it's like when you 01:22:04.620 --> 01:22:07.320 start or when you we've grown up in a 01:22:07.320 --> 01:22:09.540 culture where we're living more in that 01:22:09.540 --> 01:22:12.000 simulated capacity than in our embodying 01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.219 capacity I think that's where a lot of 01:22:14.219 --> 01:22:15.060 us 01:22:15.060 --> 01:22:16.860 um write for myself that's where I kind 01:22:16.860 --> 01:22:19.620 of I came into this from 01:22:19.620 --> 01:22:21.960 and so it's kind of being okay that's a 01:22:21.960 --> 01:22:23.940 great capacity to have 01:22:23.940 --> 01:22:26.100 but like putting in its right place 01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:28.739 putting that mind back in the body and 01:22:28.739 --> 01:22:30.780 that kind of that sort the practice 01:22:30.780 --> 01:22:33.600 really has been for me 01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:36.980 that continues to be 01:22:37.020 --> 01:22:39.179 I'm thinking of the origins of the self 01:22:39.179 --> 01:22:41.159 it might be an overload for you the 01:22:41.159 --> 01:22:43.679 delay so much information coming at you 01:22:43.679 --> 01:22:47.659 how are you going just checking in 01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:50.940 um I'm thinking of one of the videos I 01:22:50.940 --> 01:22:53.400 watched twice recently that Bonnie had 01:22:53.400 --> 01:22:55.320 about the model the origins of the self 01:22:55.320 --> 01:22:58.940 I got it here actually 01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:05.580 and what comes up or what came up when 01:23:05.580 --> 01:23:08.460 you were speaking is about almost like 01:23:08.460 --> 01:23:09.840 the shift 01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:12.060 that I've experienced I feel a couple 01:23:12.060 --> 01:23:15.540 years ago from going from me into I 01:23:15.540 --> 01:23:18.600 and then moving away from culture or you 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:21.420 have to move away from the kind of mind 01:23:21.420 --> 01:23:22.940 that we have 01:23:22.940 --> 01:23:27.179 to this almost narcissistic way of being 01:23:27.179 --> 01:23:30.179 that's being forced or pushed back by 01:23:30.179 --> 01:23:32.580 culture itself so it's a very very 01:23:32.580 --> 01:23:35.760 vulnerable place I feel to be in and to 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:38.100 and to actually step into that place of 01:23:38.100 --> 01:23:42.300 The Sovereign or like an eye a self and 01:23:42.300 --> 01:23:44.520 and they show up with other eyes so it's 01:23:44.520 --> 01:23:48.060 like a a real we that emerges from that 01:23:48.060 --> 01:23:50.880 sovereignty of eye places 01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:53.580 and that was one of the biggest shifts I 01:23:53.580 --> 01:23:56.159 I made and this model of the origins of 01:23:56.159 --> 01:23:59.400 the cells really starts to yeah give 01:23:59.400 --> 01:24:01.500 that depth to the void or to the 01:24:01.500 --> 01:24:04.199 universe of the things that I I feel I 01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:06.840 have a responsibility to reclaim like 01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:10.380 you know and like animal nature and the 01:24:10.380 --> 01:24:13.199 biotics and elements and and everything 01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:17.400 that I've forgotten that is already here 01:24:17.400 --> 01:24:20.580 and I really feel almost like a flip 01:24:20.580 --> 01:24:22.980 that the unconscious becomes even more 01:24:22.980 --> 01:24:25.560 conscious than the conscious 01:24:25.560 --> 01:24:27.840 that's a that's that's hilarious 01:24:27.840 --> 01:24:30.780 actually it's like hilarious to be 01:24:30.780 --> 01:24:33.120 to have that capacity and that that has 01:24:33.120 --> 01:24:36.179 been taken away from me by 01:24:36.179 --> 01:24:38.100 by Society 01:24:38.100 --> 01:24:40.739 and yeah I'm very 01:24:40.739 --> 01:24:43.980 very grateful that I can see again with 01:24:43.980 --> 01:24:45.480 us here 01:24:45.480 --> 01:24:49.340 so yeah that's me 01:24:50.699 --> 01:24:52.860 yeah I I don't know where this comes 01:24:52.860 --> 01:24:54.719 from but there's 01:24:54.719 --> 01:24:56.880 there's like something about like want 01:24:56.880 --> 01:25:00.120 trying to make it less intense by 01:25:00.120 --> 01:25:02.400 bonsaiing everything into friendlier 01:25:02.400 --> 01:25:05.100 shapes then they might just naturally 01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:09.480 want to take uh and making things less 01:25:09.480 --> 01:25:13.380 weird because in the mind things can 01:25:13.380 --> 01:25:16.260 make sense in a meta stable kind of way 01:25:16.260 --> 01:25:19.860 but if we let go of that then order is 01:25:19.860 --> 01:25:21.719 something that we it's it's almost like 01:25:21.719 --> 01:25:24.480 uh the metaphysical version of Aaron's 01:25:24.480 --> 01:25:26.699 Decay it's like 01:25:26.699 --> 01:25:29.699 order something we just achieve over and 01:25:29.699 --> 01:25:32.780 over and over again together and we're 01:25:32.780 --> 01:25:36.120 constantly letting it go and re-reach 01:25:36.120 --> 01:25:38.520 achieving it and it's just weird 01:25:38.520 --> 01:25:41.040 it's just weird 01:25:41.040 --> 01:25:43.020 so yeah I don't know that's that's 01:25:43.020 --> 01:25:46.340 what's coming through right now 01:25:55.980 --> 01:25:58.560 yeah I have this like little theory that 01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:01.320 like our our mind is kind of in this 01:26:01.320 --> 01:26:03.360 process actually of initiation 01:26:03.360 --> 01:26:05.400 where it's like severed and gone away 01:26:05.400 --> 01:26:08.460 from like the home and it's and it's 01:26:08.460 --> 01:26:10.440 like has all this like really naive 01:26:10.440 --> 01:26:12.179 energy you know 01:26:12.179 --> 01:26:14.400 um it's this adolescent that that um 01:26:14.400 --> 01:26:16.800 things that knows everything and 01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:19.320 um kind of can tantrum really easily and 01:26:19.320 --> 01:26:21.300 and really lacks maturity 01:26:21.300 --> 01:26:24.719 and um my sense is hopefully we're in a 01:26:24.719 --> 01:26:27.300 phase where it's getting initiated and 01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:29.699 it's remembering to come back home and 01:26:29.699 --> 01:26:30.840 hopefully 01:26:30.840 --> 01:26:33.300 now more eventually hopefully more 01:26:33.300 --> 01:26:36.239 mature in knowing what it's capable of 01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:39.900 but also as as a contributor to the 01:26:39.900 --> 01:26:42.420 bigger whole of our body and of nature 01:26:42.420 --> 01:26:44.940 so I feel like we're just at a very 01:26:44.940 --> 01:26:47.340 adolescent stage in our culture and 01:26:47.340 --> 01:26:49.699 Society 01:26:52.199 --> 01:26:54.179 one thing that just came to me when 01:26:54.179 --> 01:26:57.500 Holly was talking is that 01:26:57.540 --> 01:27:01.560 all my mechanisms they fixed places 01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:04.260 where I am I put them in place 01:27:04.260 --> 01:27:06.480 I did it nobody else did you know 01:27:06.480 --> 01:27:08.280 culture gave me a certain container that 01:27:08.280 --> 01:27:10.320 I had to you know play around within and 01:27:10.320 --> 01:27:13.020 be influenced by my parents obviously 01:27:13.020 --> 01:27:16.100 but um 01:27:16.580 --> 01:27:20.639 stepping back and seeing oh I did that 01:27:20.639 --> 01:27:23.580 it's like literally it's not a joke take 01:27:23.580 --> 01:27:25.860 responsibility for the choices that I 01:27:25.860 --> 01:27:29.100 made even if I adopted someone else's 01:27:29.100 --> 01:27:32.580 and to let go of the energy that I use 01:27:32.580 --> 01:27:34.500 to put it in Plants doesn't mean it's 01:27:34.500 --> 01:27:36.480 going to disappear immediately but at 01:27:36.480 --> 01:27:40.199 least if I see it I am seeing it I no 01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:42.239 longer am it and there's a sense of 01:27:42.239 --> 01:27:44.639 freedom in that 01:27:44.639 --> 01:27:48.780 so this is a big insight 01:27:48.780 --> 01:27:50.400 um 01:27:50.400 --> 01:27:52.500 and 01:27:52.500 --> 01:27:53.280 um 01:27:53.280 --> 01:27:57.620 yeah so there is a there is this 01:27:57.620 --> 01:28:01.260 constant inundation of cultural 01:28:01.260 --> 01:28:04.040 conditioning 01:28:04.620 --> 01:28:08.179 and then there's this little 01:28:09.179 --> 01:28:13.440 just little wobbly thing in you that 01:28:13.440 --> 01:28:16.760 is suspect 01:28:16.800 --> 01:28:18.900 do you know what I'm saying like like 01:28:18.900 --> 01:28:21.540 when you're a child like okay this stuff 01:28:21.540 --> 01:28:24.420 is like your parents say this 01:28:24.420 --> 01:28:27.300 okay we're gonna have a raise hand raise 01:28:27.300 --> 01:28:29.639 here your parents are telling you this 01:28:29.639 --> 01:28:31.380 you're telling you that this is how it 01:28:31.380 --> 01:28:32.520 is 01:28:32.520 --> 01:28:35.100 who remembers the little thing that is 01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:37.520 skeptical 01:28:40.139 --> 01:28:43.139 okay Sam come on raise your hands I'm 01:28:43.139 --> 01:28:46.920 looking for right hand raised like 01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:50.040 so that little that little 01:28:50.040 --> 01:28:52.860 Plum Bob 01:28:52.860 --> 01:28:55.159 is attached to 01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:58.880 the natural law 01:29:00.420 --> 01:29:03.179 and so that's what you're you're saying 01:29:03.179 --> 01:29:06.620 Justin like like 01:29:07.800 --> 01:29:10.620 there's like it's like you're the well 01:29:10.620 --> 01:29:12.600 we don't have okay there's like a little 01:29:12.600 --> 01:29:15.199 thing 01:29:15.739 --> 01:29:17.760 all right 01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:20.719 and and 01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:24.000 it's not it doesn't have to be 01:29:24.000 --> 01:29:26.159 revolutionary it doesn't have to be like 01:29:26.159 --> 01:29:29.219 radically uh 01:29:29.219 --> 01:29:31.560 but there's something there paying off 01:29:31.560 --> 01:29:33.239 of me I forgot what I was talking about 01:29:33.239 --> 01:29:35.540 here 01:29:37.260 --> 01:29:41.000 kind of reminds me of like 01:29:41.159 --> 01:29:42.780 kind of bring it back to like what 01:29:42.780 --> 01:29:44.580 Catalan started with like the fear of 01:29:44.580 --> 01:29:45.960 not knowing 01:29:45.960 --> 01:29:47.639 and it's like 01:29:47.639 --> 01:29:51.260 I don't know it feels like 01:29:51.719 --> 01:29:54.480 when you're your most honest and real 01:29:54.480 --> 01:29:58.139 like when you do that it's like it's a 01:29:58.139 --> 01:30:00.360 lot it can be 01:30:00.360 --> 01:30:02.760 especially if it doesn't go with like 01:30:02.760 --> 01:30:05.639 you fitting into a group or your family 01:30:05.639 --> 01:30:08.340 or being at work or whatever 01:30:08.340 --> 01:30:11.300 it feels like 01:30:11.340 --> 01:30:14.820 it's just real like it's I don't know 01:30:14.820 --> 01:30:16.620 and maybe 01:30:16.620 --> 01:30:19.679 going to that eye place like what Anna 01:30:19.679 --> 01:30:21.300 was saying like 01:30:21.300 --> 01:30:23.940 you know recapturing that eye and taking 01:30:23.940 --> 01:30:25.739 responsibility 01:30:25.739 --> 01:30:27.420 is 01:30:27.420 --> 01:30:31.219 is like honoring that 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:36.920 which is scary sometimes 01:30:37.080 --> 01:30:38.940 when you first said he was skeptical 01:30:38.940 --> 01:30:41.699 when I went back the first thing I 01:30:41.699 --> 01:30:44.760 remember was I don't understand 01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:47.280 now maybe that arose from that sense 01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:49.020 that it's not right 01:30:49.020 --> 01:30:52.080 but it wasn't so much 01:30:52.080 --> 01:30:56.280 are you sure it was I don't get it 01:30:56.280 --> 01:30:58.940 foreign 01:31:06.260 --> 01:31:09.480 the word interference and you know 01:31:09.480 --> 01:31:12.000 there's there's so much interference 01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:14.159 um to you know 01:31:14.159 --> 01:31:17.219 with our b or to our being 01:31:17.219 --> 01:31:20.400 that that that in in nature in its 01:31:20.400 --> 01:31:22.260 natural state is probably in a certain 01:31:22.260 --> 01:31:24.300 way and then there's this these powerful 01:31:24.300 --> 01:31:26.219 pressures put on us through Society 01:31:26.219 --> 01:31:27.719 through through all these social 01:31:27.719 --> 01:31:30.540 constructs that put like interference 01:31:30.540 --> 01:31:33.480 with our being and then we we respond to 01:31:33.480 --> 01:31:36.600 that by by positioning by kind of 01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:37.679 bending 01:31:37.679 --> 01:31:40.860 and then I think uh the the and I wonder 01:31:40.860 --> 01:31:43.020 or I think that the the bending is that 01:31:43.020 --> 01:31:45.179 mind thing that 01:31:45.179 --> 01:31:48.600 um that then you know creates this this 01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:51.179 this bended person and you know there's 01:31:51.179 --> 01:31:52.620 there's all kinds of pressures in 01:31:52.620 --> 01:31:55.380 society like in media they use it a lot 01:31:55.380 --> 01:31:58.139 because it's you know it it invokes all 01:31:58.139 --> 01:31:59.940 kinds of kind of 01:31:59.940 --> 01:32:02.639 feelings of sensation in you and it's 01:32:02.639 --> 01:32:04.320 almost like an addiction which they play 01:32:04.320 --> 01:32:06.380 to I think and then 01:32:06.380 --> 01:32:10.139 reconnecting to self and then uncovering 01:32:10.139 --> 01:32:12.480 the the interference that you've 01:32:12.480 --> 01:32:16.199 responded to and now dealing with keep 01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:19.020 keeping yourself centered while 01:32:19.020 --> 01:32:21.420 accepting the interference was there but 01:32:21.420 --> 01:32:22.440 not 01:32:22.440 --> 01:32:24.960 not bending anymore 01:32:24.960 --> 01:32:27.840 that that just opens up this this this 01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:30.540 new space in yourself that you're kind 01:32:30.540 --> 01:32:34.219 of in a way neglected 01:32:34.320 --> 01:32:36.840 um or haven't 01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:38.280 claimed 01:32:38.280 --> 01:32:39.540 well 01:32:39.540 --> 01:32:43.820 I'm not sure so now I'm going to 01:32:45.020 --> 01:32:50.000 throw in a atomic bomb here 01:32:52.320 --> 01:32:55.020 so here's a trivial statement which is 01:32:55.020 --> 01:32:57.420 what is more real 01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:01.739 will end up being real right I mean 01:33:01.739 --> 01:33:04.860 if you have like these these 01:33:04.860 --> 01:33:08.639 ideas of different Futures obviously the 01:33:08.639 --> 01:33:11.340 one that is more real will become more 01:33:11.340 --> 01:33:13.440 real are you with me there 01:33:13.440 --> 01:33:16.320 can I get a hands up on that thumbs up 01:33:16.320 --> 01:33:19.739 okay so what is more real will become 01:33:19.739 --> 01:33:21.970 real 01:33:21.970 --> 01:33:23.639 [Music] 01:33:23.639 --> 01:33:27.480 so that's number one and 01:33:27.480 --> 01:33:31.020 then you can think about 01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:35.880 like what you said is that 01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:38.580 there are all these mechanisms of 01:33:38.580 --> 01:33:41.239 delusion 01:33:41.360 --> 01:33:43.139 that 01:33:43.139 --> 01:33:44.820 persist 01:33:44.820 --> 01:33:49.020 because they have 01:33:49.020 --> 01:33:52.440 positive feedback loops right so I could 01:33:52.440 --> 01:33:54.960 tell my boss that I like him 01:33:54.960 --> 01:33:58.080 there's a positive feedback loop all 01:33:58.080 --> 01:34:01.800 these I mean the whole world is run on 01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:05.960 diluted positive feedback loops 01:34:07.080 --> 01:34:09.659 you understand that right like this is 01:34:09.659 --> 01:34:10.440 true 01:34:10.440 --> 01:34:12.900 so what if 01:34:12.900 --> 01:34:17.520 you took seriously that 01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:21.239 what is real 01:34:21.239 --> 01:34:25.820 is actually the thing you can bet on 01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.980 like what if you just really really 01:34:28.980 --> 01:34:31.159 really 01:34:32.420 --> 01:34:35.780 internalize that 01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:42.659 now it's not easy to be 100 about what 01:34:42.659 --> 01:34:46.020 is real given the complexity of 01:34:46.020 --> 01:34:47.460 everything 01:34:47.460 --> 01:34:50.040 but 01:34:50.040 --> 01:34:54.300 this is one way to 01:34:54.300 --> 01:34:56.840 re 01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:00.179 configure your relationship to business 01:35:00.179 --> 01:35:01.440 let's say 01:35:01.440 --> 01:35:03.540 you notice that everybody's walking 01:35:03.540 --> 01:35:07.040 around talking about 01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:10.560 reacting to things that you know is not 01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:12.179 real and I'm going to give you a very 01:35:12.179 --> 01:35:14.699 simple example so simple 01:35:14.699 --> 01:35:18.080 that you feel like I'm trivializing 01:35:18.080 --> 01:35:21.600 your question but I'm not I'm trying not 01:35:21.600 --> 01:35:23.900 to 01:35:24.360 --> 01:35:27.300 so you know I worked in landscape 01:35:27.300 --> 01:35:29.460 construction for a long time we worked 01:35:29.460 --> 01:35:32.880 for Henry Kissinger and Henry and Nancy 01:35:32.880 --> 01:35:34.800 Kissinger were having a state department 01:35:34.800 --> 01:35:36.480 dinner 01:35:36.480 --> 01:35:39.260 one year 01:35:39.780 --> 01:35:43.020 did you hear the story already 01:35:43.020 --> 01:35:46.380 no okay so they had like a half a mile 01:35:46.380 --> 01:35:49.260 drive where they had she was into white 01:35:49.260 --> 01:35:50.820 white everything 01:35:50.820 --> 01:35:53.820 so she always had these State Department 01:35:53.820 --> 01:35:57.540 dinners at a house when the peonies were 01:35:57.540 --> 01:35:59.639 in full blossom and all these white 01:35:59.639 --> 01:36:02.159 things were in full blossom 01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:05.340 and it happened to be a year where it 01:36:05.340 --> 01:36:08.820 was really cold and rainy and the 01:36:08.820 --> 01:36:12.120 peonies erotted 01:36:12.120 --> 01:36:15.060 and she said 01:36:15.060 --> 01:36:17.760 I want them replaced I mean they were 20 01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:20.219 year old peonies 01:36:20.219 --> 01:36:24.060 and the whole office I witnessed went 01:36:24.060 --> 01:36:25.080 into 01:36:25.080 --> 01:36:27.540 like crisis mode they were on the phone 01:36:27.540 --> 01:36:30.120 they were trying to do and I'm like 01:36:30.120 --> 01:36:32.639 I stood on my head in the middle of the 01:36:32.639 --> 01:36:34.679 office 01:36:34.679 --> 01:36:36.239 and people like 01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:38.760 why is she standing on her head because 01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:42.239 like people were 01:36:42.239 --> 01:36:44.639 triggered 01:36:44.639 --> 01:36:49.320 into responses that were not real 01:36:49.320 --> 01:36:52.800 you couldn't replace a half a mile of 20 01:36:52.800 --> 01:36:55.020 year old peonies 01:36:55.020 --> 01:36:57.300 it's not real 01:36:57.300 --> 01:37:00.500 it's just not real 01:37:01.380 --> 01:37:03.960 and so 01:37:03.960 --> 01:37:06.320 there's this 01:37:06.320 --> 01:37:11.699 bonus onus is a real world weird word 01:37:11.699 --> 01:37:15.139 bonus on us 01:37:15.239 --> 01:37:18.120 to be visioners 01:37:18.120 --> 01:37:20.699 but to also understand that hard 01:37:20.699 --> 01:37:24.900 constraints are our friends 01:37:24.900 --> 01:37:28.560 our constraints are our friends 01:37:28.560 --> 01:37:31.800 we're not about like walking into like 01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:34.620 some freaking fantasy 01:37:34.620 --> 01:37:37.620 although that is helpful to be imaginal 01:37:37.620 --> 01:37:40.199 and unders and think well what if this 01:37:40.199 --> 01:37:42.920 what if that 01:37:43.280 --> 01:37:47.639 were about understanding 01:37:48.659 --> 01:37:52.080 and partnering partnering 01:37:52.080 --> 01:37:55.219 with reality 01:37:55.500 --> 01:37:58.020 in creative ways 01:37:58.020 --> 01:38:00.600 and so 01:38:00.600 --> 01:38:03.540 I forgot actually what triggered this 01:38:03.540 --> 01:38:04.920 but 01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:10.260 I don't know maybe I I went too far off 01:38:10.260 --> 01:38:13.940 um but maybe you can comment on that 01:38:16.080 --> 01:38:17.820 I'm just thinking this 01:38:17.820 --> 01:38:19.980 is becoming intimate with those hard 01:38:19.980 --> 01:38:23.280 constraints that's how we really develop 01:38:23.280 --> 01:38:24.719 wisdom 01:38:24.719 --> 01:38:27.659 right just like kind of just really 01:38:27.659 --> 01:38:31.560 being in touch with reality like yeah at 01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:33.179 that experience over the past couple of 01:38:33.179 --> 01:38:34.980 weeks being closer to death than I'd 01:38:34.980 --> 01:38:36.060 ever been 01:38:36.060 --> 01:38:37.800 I'm just like 01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:41.280 yeah being with it and not 01:38:41.280 --> 01:38:43.020 not trying to 01:38:43.020 --> 01:38:45.480 dissociate from it not trying to just go 01:38:45.480 --> 01:38:47.040 into a story about it but just being 01:38:47.040 --> 01:38:50.900 really present with it okay 01:38:50.940 --> 01:38:53.940 he also kind of felt like when you said 01:38:53.940 --> 01:38:57.600 hard constraints I felt relief 01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:59.639 it's like ah okay 01:38:59.639 --> 01:39:02.159 there's there's something like 01:39:02.159 --> 01:39:03.360 it's 01:39:03.360 --> 01:39:04.800 I don't know maybe it's just me but 01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:07.440 sometimes it's like the possibilities 01:39:07.440 --> 01:39:09.719 and if it's endless it's like 01:39:09.719 --> 01:39:12.179 it's like I don't know it can be a lot 01:39:12.179 --> 01:39:13.800 it's like 01:39:13.800 --> 01:39:16.139 kind of reminds me of the story of like 01:39:16.139 --> 01:39:18.300 I remember you saying of like going 01:39:18.300 --> 01:39:21.120 under anesthesia and you're like oh 01:39:21.120 --> 01:39:23.580 thank God like it wasn't like you could 01:39:23.580 --> 01:39:25.920 die but it's like all right well it 01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:29.340 like you know my dad died 01:39:29.340 --> 01:39:32.480 not my control 01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:54.060 so I don't know what you mean by hard 01:39:54.060 --> 01:39:56.159 constraints 01:39:56.159 --> 01:39:57.600 um the 01:39:57.600 --> 01:39:59.219 um 01:39:59.219 --> 01:40:03.239 the biblical story of feeding the 5 000 01:40:03.239 --> 01:40:06.540 they start with hard constraints 01:40:06.540 --> 01:40:10.880 there's a huge crowd and 01:40:11.400 --> 01:40:16.739 and there's very little food 01:40:16.739 --> 01:40:20.300 and so as The Story Goes 01:40:20.300 --> 01:40:23.460 please don't take this as a religious 01:40:23.460 --> 01:40:25.980 lecture but it's a story as the story 01:40:25.980 --> 01:40:30.540 goes uh Jesus gives thanks and blesses 01:40:30.540 --> 01:40:33.300 the hard constraint 01:40:33.300 --> 01:40:35.100 and 01:40:35.100 --> 01:40:37.199 there's more than enough to feed 01:40:37.199 --> 01:40:38.760 everyone 01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:42.659 and my experiences a heart constraint I 01:40:42.659 --> 01:40:44.719 had the other day was 01:40:44.719 --> 01:40:48.420 feeling angry at a friend of mine I've 01:40:48.420 --> 01:40:49.980 talked a lot about anger I got a lot of 01:40:49.980 --> 01:40:51.360 bankrupt from right now 01:40:51.360 --> 01:40:54.900 and having no room for love 01:40:54.900 --> 01:40:58.080 like or not being in touch with love 01:40:58.080 --> 01:40:59.460 of her 01:40:59.460 --> 01:41:01.199 and 01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:04.199 the grief that's underneath that that I 01:41:04.199 --> 01:41:05.580 wasn't able 01:41:05.580 --> 01:41:09.120 because I was angry that and I was in a 01:41:09.120 --> 01:41:12.780 hard world that may seem real like she's 01:41:12.780 --> 01:41:15.179 doing this and it makes me you know and 01:41:15.179 --> 01:41:18.719 it's and it has a real impact on me and 01:41:18.719 --> 01:41:22.139 what and so how do I shift out of that 01:41:22.139 --> 01:41:26.100 hard constraint or and and what I did 01:41:26.100 --> 01:41:30.300 was ask for help the only thing I had to 01:41:30.300 --> 01:41:34.560 do was to say wow 01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:39.320 I'm in a place that's too small 01:41:39.719 --> 01:41:42.619 and I like it there 01:41:42.619 --> 01:41:46.260 and I am invested in it and I don't know 01:41:46.260 --> 01:41:49.159 how to get bigger 01:41:49.260 --> 01:41:51.659 and 01:41:51.659 --> 01:41:54.840 even just opening the door that little 01:41:54.840 --> 01:41:57.560 teeny bit 01:41:58.020 --> 01:42:01.699 changed everything for me 01:42:07.980 --> 01:42:10.639 foreign 01:42:11.580 --> 01:42:14.219 starting there is what is whatever the 01:42:14.219 --> 01:42:16.139 heart constraint is 01:42:16.139 --> 01:42:18.960 what there also is is how we're holding 01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:20.460 what is 01:42:20.460 --> 01:42:23.520 how we're fixating fixing ourselves in 01:42:23.520 --> 01:42:24.659 place 01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:28.800 because of how we're holding what is 01:42:28.800 --> 01:42:30.800 um 01:42:31.260 --> 01:42:33.900 and I want to say something 01:42:33.900 --> 01:42:36.600 intimate 01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:39.679 about us 01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:47.159 every day I've been visiting David uh a 01:42:47.159 --> 01:42:48.900 week now and then I was with my son and 01:42:48.900 --> 01:42:51.540 before that I was with David and and 01:42:51.540 --> 01:42:55.159 every day we have these amazing 01:42:55.159 --> 01:42:58.080 connections we're we're calling it 01:42:58.080 --> 01:42:59.340 coffee time 01:42:59.340 --> 01:43:02.159 and I think and then and then the next 01:43:02.159 --> 01:43:03.780 day will come and I think okay this is 01:43:03.780 --> 01:43:06.060 going to be an ordinary day this is just 01:43:06.060 --> 01:43:10.440 going to be a normal ordinary day and um 01:43:10.440 --> 01:43:13.619 and nothing's gonna shift but meanwhile 01:43:13.619 --> 01:43:16.380 something some hard constraint 01:43:16.380 --> 01:43:19.260 has shown up in my life 01:43:19.260 --> 01:43:22.920 and maybe I've prayed about it 01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:26.580 and what happens in that 01:43:26.580 --> 01:43:29.280 I think because we've become 01:43:29.280 --> 01:43:30.600 we 01:43:30.600 --> 01:43:33.360 come to the altar so to speak or come to 01:43:33.360 --> 01:43:35.580 the yoga mat every day 01:43:35.580 --> 01:43:40.020 so often that there's already a current 01:43:40.020 --> 01:43:42.119 of available 01:43:42.119 --> 01:43:43.560 for 01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:45.360 um 01:43:45.360 --> 01:43:48.060 for newness in relationship to whatever 01:43:48.060 --> 01:43:51.239 happens and so before we know it 01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:53.520 there's all sorts of stuff coming 01:43:53.520 --> 01:43:56.100 through and moving and inspiring and 01:43:56.100 --> 01:43:57.960 there's so much energy and now it's not 01:43:57.960 --> 01:44:00.239 coffee time it's coffee time and then 01:44:00.239 --> 01:44:02.280 lunch time and then it's afternoon time 01:44:02.280 --> 01:44:05.460 and it keeps going on and on and on 01:44:05.460 --> 01:44:07.580 um 01:44:10.080 --> 01:44:11.880 so occurs to me to say do you want to 01:44:11.880 --> 01:44:13.940 sing 01:44:23.400 --> 01:44:25.260 well the only thing I want to say is 01:44:25.260 --> 01:44:27.540 it's a good question what are hard 01:44:27.540 --> 01:44:31.139 constraints yes so I wanna I want to 01:44:31.139 --> 01:44:34.679 talk about how hard constraints 01:44:34.679 --> 01:44:38.780 because they're not negative 01:44:39.000 --> 01:44:43.440 they're the most reliable 01:44:43.560 --> 01:44:47.219 things in the universe okay let me 01:44:47.219 --> 01:44:49.440 explain this 01:44:49.440 --> 01:44:51.300 [Music] 01:44:51.300 --> 01:44:53.820 so 01:44:53.820 --> 01:44:56.340 you could think of like 01:44:56.340 --> 01:45:00.600 imagine trying to fly 01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:03.719 in the airplane and you and someone said 01:45:03.719 --> 01:45:05.100 well 01:45:05.100 --> 01:45:07.500 you can't fly because everything falls 01:45:07.500 --> 01:45:11.480 to the Earth that's a hard constraint 01:45:12.060 --> 01:45:15.780 but without the fact that gravity pulls 01:45:15.780 --> 01:45:17.820 everything down to the Earth you could 01:45:17.820 --> 01:45:19.260 not fly 01:45:19.260 --> 01:45:20.340 because 01:45:20.340 --> 01:45:24.119 fly is about the discrepancy between 01:45:24.119 --> 01:45:27.420 pressure of air that's pulled down to 01:45:27.420 --> 01:45:29.719 the Earth 01:45:30.060 --> 01:45:32.400 so hard constraints are actually our 01:45:32.400 --> 01:45:34.639 friend 01:45:35.159 --> 01:45:39.500 this is something to really understand 01:45:39.500 --> 01:45:44.820 that the inviolable laws of the universe 01:45:44.820 --> 01:45:48.900 their promises their promises that they 01:45:48.900 --> 01:45:53.360 will do this hence I can 01:45:53.940 --> 01:45:56.580 I can uh 01:45:56.580 --> 01:46:00.420 I could depend upon them so I say if 01:46:00.420 --> 01:46:02.699 this if the Rock 01:46:02.699 --> 01:46:07.639 or what I said if the stone 01:46:08.040 --> 01:46:11.820 would not agree to lay upon the earth I 01:46:11.820 --> 01:46:15.480 could not pick her up and throw it 01:46:15.480 --> 01:46:18.239 because just be 01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:21.300 so hard constraints 01:46:21.300 --> 01:46:24.380 are our friends 01:46:25.800 --> 01:46:28.440 every day I will be hungry 01:46:28.440 --> 01:46:32.100 this is your friend and so 01:46:32.100 --> 01:46:35.639 this is another big reframe in the in 01:46:35.639 --> 01:46:39.000 the pop-up school that 01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:40.920 that 01:46:40.920 --> 01:46:43.020 there are opportunities to leverage 01:46:43.020 --> 01:46:45.780 that's not what I'm saying but hard 01:46:45.780 --> 01:46:48.060 constraints 01:46:48.060 --> 01:46:51.480 are promises promises that the universe 01:46:51.480 --> 01:46:53.760 will hold together in such a way now you 01:46:53.760 --> 01:46:55.260 think about yourself 01:46:55.260 --> 01:46:59.159 I have a tendency to go to anger this 01:46:59.159 --> 01:47:01.860 may be a hard constraint 01:47:01.860 --> 01:47:03.659 but 01:47:03.659 --> 01:47:06.000 if you think of it as a certain kind of 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:08.960 arousal energy 01:47:09.300 --> 01:47:12.179 that's a hard constraint then you can 01:47:12.179 --> 01:47:14.760 say well what is 01:47:14.760 --> 01:47:19.320 what is the affordance of this 01:47:19.320 --> 01:47:22.920 you will probably notice that people 01:47:22.920 --> 01:47:25.440 love you understand what the affordance 01:47:25.440 --> 01:47:29.000 of your heart constraint is 01:47:29.219 --> 01:47:33.060 oh yeah she's gonna get angry and that's 01:47:33.060 --> 01:47:35.040 workable 01:47:35.040 --> 01:47:37.080 do you see what I'm saying 01:47:37.080 --> 01:47:41.219 like I'm not saying don't get less angry 01:47:41.219 --> 01:47:43.920 that's not what I'm saying but hard 01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:45.480 constraints 01:47:45.480 --> 01:47:47.400 are 01:47:47.400 --> 01:47:50.820 fuels for possibility because they're 01:47:50.820 --> 01:47:53.420 predictable 01:47:54.119 --> 01:47:57.300 the fact that the gravity always pulls 01:47:57.300 --> 01:47:59.040 to the ground 01:47:59.040 --> 01:48:03.060 is a really really big 01:48:03.060 --> 01:48:04.860 thing for me 01:48:04.860 --> 01:48:07.020 so 01:48:07.020 --> 01:48:09.600 um that's what I I've written about this 01:48:09.600 --> 01:48:12.659 at the sage can see the affordances and 01:48:12.659 --> 01:48:14.159 hard constraints 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:18.360 so the person who's just like in fantasy 01:48:18.360 --> 01:48:21.060 ran thinks oh there are no hard 01:48:21.060 --> 01:48:24.360 constraints I can like fantasize be all 01:48:24.360 --> 01:48:26.520 I can walk through walls and all this 01:48:26.520 --> 01:48:27.540 stuff 01:48:27.540 --> 01:48:31.340 uh that's a fantasy but the sage 01:48:31.340 --> 01:48:35.100 acknowledges hard constraints and can 01:48:35.100 --> 01:48:36.659 see 01:48:36.659 --> 01:48:40.260 that it affords possibilities that would 01:48:40.260 --> 01:48:42.119 not have been possible if the 01:48:42.119 --> 01:48:44.699 constraints weren't hard 01:48:44.699 --> 01:48:48.480 and if you go back and look at my sage I 01:48:48.480 --> 01:48:50.159 think I have three or four Sage things 01:48:50.159 --> 01:48:51.480 so 01:48:51.480 --> 01:48:53.760 this is very important organizations 01:48:53.760 --> 01:48:56.460 like I tell people like people I can 01:48:56.460 --> 01:48:58.920 play oh my boss is always an and 01:48:58.920 --> 01:49:01.080 he's always I'm like but he's always 01:49:01.080 --> 01:49:04.739 like that and they're like yes okay this 01:49:04.739 --> 01:49:07.440 is a good thing because he's predictable 01:49:07.440 --> 01:49:09.840 it's a hard constraint 01:49:09.840 --> 01:49:12.619 so 01:49:13.380 --> 01:49:16.560 you can you see the incredible we're 01:49:16.560 --> 01:49:18.600 talking about practicality incredible 01:49:18.600 --> 01:49:20.400 practicality 01:49:20.400 --> 01:49:24.920 of understanding hard constraints does 01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:29.219 affording and enormous possibility 01:49:29.219 --> 01:49:32.340 sticky and this perspective will shift 01:49:32.340 --> 01:49:36.960 is very important in terms of 01:49:36.960 --> 01:49:40.920 practical experience in the world 01:49:40.920 --> 01:49:43.940 it makes me think of yeah 01:49:43.940 --> 01:49:45.900 that's just gonna say it makes me think 01:49:45.900 --> 01:49:47.040 of that 01:49:47.040 --> 01:49:49.440 um the Paradox of free will decide when 01:49:49.440 --> 01:49:51.659 you acknowledge that you don't have it 01:49:51.659 --> 01:49:54.060 in some domain or something is you know 01:49:54.060 --> 01:49:56.040 constraining you so anyone's you 01:49:56.040 --> 01:49:57.600 acknowledge it you have the potential to 01:49:57.600 --> 01:49:59.699 actually expand your pre-work capacity 01:49:59.699 --> 01:50:02.040 exactly whenever you find a hard 01:50:02.040 --> 01:50:04.139 constraint 01:50:04.139 --> 01:50:06.719 on the other side 01:50:06.719 --> 01:50:11.360 you gotta affords because it's 100 01:50:11.360 --> 01:50:15.619 reliable because it's a hard constraint 01:50:15.619 --> 01:50:18.960 you see the perspective come on help me 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:20.580 out you're laughing here you understand 01:50:20.580 --> 01:50:22.520 it right 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:28.139 yeah yeah excuse me yes yes I do it's 01:50:28.139 --> 01:50:30.659 I don't know just it's just brilliant 01:50:30.659 --> 01:50:33.540 yeah I've not heard it used with that 01:50:33.540 --> 01:50:36.960 word in that way but it's certainly I 01:50:36.960 --> 01:50:41.659 experienced that more and more 01:50:41.960 --> 01:50:45.119 yeah yeah it's cool thank you sorry I 01:50:45.119 --> 01:50:47.639 I'll try and think of an experience yeah 01:50:47.639 --> 01:50:50.280 it's very tai chi I mean you know my 01:50:50.280 --> 01:50:51.860 background's I teach 01:50:51.860 --> 01:50:54.960 he always leads this way he always leads 01:50:54.960 --> 01:50:57.000 us he always 01:50:57.000 --> 01:50:58.380 okay 01:50:58.380 --> 01:51:01.440 well that's you know that's something to 01:51:01.440 --> 01:51:03.780 understand but anyways it's not always 01:51:03.780 --> 01:51:05.940 easy actually I just thought of an 01:51:05.940 --> 01:51:08.639 example last night I went to 01:51:08.639 --> 01:51:10.500 um my brother and his wife are going 01:51:10.500 --> 01:51:12.960 over to live in Tahiti so I went to a 01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:15.179 family get-together where we had a meal 01:51:15.179 --> 01:51:19.139 now my brother is always a certain way 01:51:19.139 --> 01:51:21.600 he has a certain thing with jokes and 01:51:21.600 --> 01:51:24.420 the way he perceives and it can be a 01:51:24.420 --> 01:51:25.320 little 01:51:25.320 --> 01:51:27.239 sometimes it's a bit 01:51:27.239 --> 01:51:29.760 a little on the edge or a little bit 01:51:29.760 --> 01:51:32.940 nasty maybe one could say but 01:51:32.940 --> 01:51:35.880 means because I know this when I'm going 01:51:35.880 --> 01:51:38.880 it means how I am with 01:51:38.880 --> 01:51:42.840 is it's just it's fine it's absolutely 01:51:42.840 --> 01:51:45.480 fine this constraint that he gives means 01:51:45.480 --> 01:51:47.239 that there's so many possibilities 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:51.060 available in terms of how I respond how 01:51:51.060 --> 01:51:53.400 that affects the person next to me and 01:51:53.400 --> 01:51:55.739 then the whole thing last night was 01:51:55.739 --> 01:51:59.280 Bloody hilarious we had so much fun with 01:51:59.280 --> 01:52:01.619 this constraint that and he always went 01:52:01.619 --> 01:52:03.480 back to it he kept going back and back 01:52:03.480 --> 01:52:07.619 to this same way but it allowed so many 01:52:07.619 --> 01:52:10.440 fun things to happen last night and it 01:52:10.440 --> 01:52:13.320 was great I really liked it but I do 01:52:13.320 --> 01:52:15.000 have to say sometimes in those 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:19.139 situations before I go I need to be I 01:52:19.139 --> 01:52:22.139 catch myself sometimes going into the 01:52:22.139 --> 01:52:23.760 mind I suppose it is I don't know what 01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:25.380 wherever I go 01:52:25.380 --> 01:52:26.100 um 01:52:26.100 --> 01:52:28.560 and getting a little concerned all this 01:52:28.560 --> 01:52:30.780 might not be nice or this might blah 01:52:30.780 --> 01:52:32.639 blah blah all of this blah blah stuff 01:52:32.639 --> 01:52:35.340 about what might happen and then I'm 01:52:35.340 --> 01:52:37.380 like can you just stop 01:52:37.380 --> 01:52:39.960 it let it go you don't need any of that 01:52:39.960 --> 01:52:42.960 just go knowing what you know and see 01:52:42.960 --> 01:52:45.119 what happens anyway and maybe one day he 01:52:45.119 --> 01:52:46.980 won't even have second straight who 01:52:46.980 --> 01:52:49.679 knows but at the moment it's very very 01:52:49.679 --> 01:52:51.900 yeah anyway that's all I have to say 01:52:51.900 --> 01:52:54.320 about that 01:52:55.920 --> 01:52:57.780 would you say the 01:52:57.780 --> 01:52:59.900 um 01:53:00.900 --> 01:53:03.780 the opposite of sort of accepting hard 01:53:03.780 --> 01:53:07.500 constraints is like naive hopefulness 01:53:07.500 --> 01:53:10.139 like oh 01:53:10.139 --> 01:53:13.920 like this person are you asking me yeah 01:53:13.920 --> 01:53:18.179 anyone really okay like well I'm always 01:53:18.179 --> 01:53:21.540 in the mind I think growing up naturally 01:53:21.540 --> 01:53:24.780 I maybe I mean I'm very 01:53:24.780 --> 01:53:27.000 my mindset has been oh like 01:53:27.000 --> 01:53:30.780 infinite kind of like possibilities sort 01:53:30.780 --> 01:53:34.500 of so too really in the fantasy I guess 01:53:34.500 --> 01:53:36.540 and 01:53:36.540 --> 01:53:38.639 it's like 01:53:38.639 --> 01:53:41.100 I I've tended to always hold oh there's 01:53:41.100 --> 01:53:43.199 always a chance that it could not be a 01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:44.760 hard constraint like there could always 01:53:44.760 --> 01:53:47.880 be like a little oh man what if I just 01:53:47.880 --> 01:53:51.960 you know like and it feels like that has 01:53:51.960 --> 01:53:54.600 I don't know I can see how that could 01:53:54.600 --> 01:53:58.500 could help or stop from accepting your 01:53:58.500 --> 01:54:00.780 heart constraint and then actually using 01:54:00.780 --> 01:54:03.360 it to do something 01:54:03.360 --> 01:54:06.960 yeah yeah Max I think for me what was 01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:10.280 some coming up here is that I used to 01:54:10.280 --> 01:54:15.659 really want really want Pollyanna land 01:54:15.659 --> 01:54:19.580 this was a big thing for me and I often 01:54:19.580 --> 01:54:23.760 would be looking for that 01:54:23.760 --> 01:54:27.239 and it's really it's it's not helpful 01:54:27.239 --> 01:54:30.600 it's it's not helpful at all 01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:34.380 um and I would say part of that is a 01:54:34.380 --> 01:54:36.780 response always these things can be a 01:54:36.780 --> 01:54:39.179 response to whatever but I think when I 01:54:39.179 --> 01:54:41.580 look at my sister 01:54:41.580 --> 01:54:45.360 um I see who are wanting Pollyanna land 01:54:45.360 --> 01:54:47.219 and then when she doesn't get Pollyanna 01:54:47.219 --> 01:54:49.800 land she gets really angry and she does 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:51.960 her thing and goes crazy at me or 01:54:51.960 --> 01:54:54.060 someone else and then she's all sorry 01:54:54.060 --> 01:54:57.600 and blah blah but it's very 01:54:57.600 --> 01:54:59.760 she really wants it to be how it's not 01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:02.340 and she just cannot 01:55:02.340 --> 01:55:06.540 well she at this stage so she can't I 01:55:06.540 --> 01:55:09.420 mean she just doesn't yeah all I'm 01:55:09.420 --> 01:55:10.560 thinking of all the time here is 01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:12.060 Pollyanna land 01:55:12.060 --> 01:55:14.639 and I feel that that's also 01:55:14.639 --> 01:55:16.800 for me 01:55:16.800 --> 01:55:20.760 um I really love this effort that we've 01:55:20.760 --> 01:55:21.659 been 01:55:21.659 --> 01:55:23.699 I really like just just love their way 01:55:23.699 --> 01:55:25.619 that comes together because 01:55:25.619 --> 01:55:27.960 whenever the arousal arise it's like I'm 01:55:27.960 --> 01:55:29.760 always experimenting with this now so 01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:33.000 when an arousal arises of anger 01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:36.719 I'm like okay it's just being with that 01:55:36.719 --> 01:55:38.639 because that's real that's actually for 01:55:38.639 --> 01:55:41.460 me now what is part of being real so 01:55:41.460 --> 01:55:46.139 what am I seeing what is how am I going 01:55:46.139 --> 01:55:49.679 to what is going to satisfy this because 01:55:49.679 --> 01:55:53.100 before I would do care but not real care 01:55:53.100 --> 01:55:55.260 oh no the key would arise and I would do 01:55:55.260 --> 01:55:57.659 care but it wasn't really here 01:55:57.659 --> 01:55:59.880 in fact I would think I'd satisfied it 01:55:59.880 --> 01:56:03.119 no and then it's just to allow all of it 01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:07.199 to whatever arises just to be with that 01:56:07.199 --> 01:56:08.880 um and I've always sort of said that but 01:56:08.880 --> 01:56:11.040 this is exciting I mean I find this 01:56:11.040 --> 01:56:12.719 really exciting what's going to satisfy 01:56:12.719 --> 01:56:16.260 that how is this working oh look at that 01:56:16.260 --> 01:56:19.440 oh he's a it wasn't he 01:56:19.440 --> 01:56:22.440 um like it's just whatever whatever is 01:56:22.440 --> 01:56:24.900 present in the moment and I can't write 01:56:24.900 --> 01:56:27.960 a manual or a book or a how to do this 01:56:27.960 --> 01:56:30.239 like this is for this situation this is 01:56:30.239 --> 01:56:32.940 the exit no sorry I can't 01:56:32.940 --> 01:56:35.280 it can't be like that and there's still 01:56:35.280 --> 01:56:37.560 lots of challenges 01:56:37.560 --> 01:56:39.780 um as well but I love to experiment more 01:56:39.780 --> 01:56:42.179 and more with this now and I have a 01:56:42.179 --> 01:56:45.179 question about that which I uh maybe 01:56:45.179 --> 01:56:46.739 I'll raise it another day 01:56:46.739 --> 01:56:48.179 um because I think we're near the end of 01:56:48.179 --> 01:56:50.040 the time around that 01:56:50.040 --> 01:56:53.940 um yeah yeah but it's enabled me let's 01:56:53.940 --> 01:56:56.159 finish with your question what's my 01:56:56.159 --> 01:56:58.440 question okay 01:56:58.440 --> 01:57:00.560 um 01:57:00.659 --> 01:57:04.340 do I need a context 01:57:05.100 --> 01:57:06.960 we talked about 01:57:06.960 --> 01:57:10.619 um ethics and we saw how quickly uh we 01:57:10.619 --> 01:57:13.080 can in our culture and I do this though 01:57:13.080 --> 01:57:15.840 from the ethics to the story to the 01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:18.540 emotion it gets all blah blah blah and 01:57:18.540 --> 01:57:21.599 also it's there is a sense in which we 01:57:21.599 --> 01:57:24.900 also talked about coming from top down 01:57:24.900 --> 01:57:28.440 and how this is has really closes down 01:57:28.440 --> 01:57:30.960 say we're talking about care so we've 01:57:30.960 --> 01:57:34.080 closed down effect of care completely 01:57:34.080 --> 01:57:37.139 now this is a little diversion 01:57:37.139 --> 01:57:39.119 but one of the things that I'm looking 01:57:39.119 --> 01:57:41.940 at now at the moment in relation to my 01:57:41.940 --> 01:57:44.699 family history is I'm actually asking 01:57:44.699 --> 01:57:47.340 some real questions around the Holocaust 01:57:47.340 --> 01:57:50.219 now if I couldn't be with anger and I 01:57:50.219 --> 01:57:52.139 couldn't be with the whole like violence 01:57:52.139 --> 01:57:53.520 and all of that I couldn't be doing 01:57:53.520 --> 01:57:56.159 these questions but what I'm wondering 01:57:56.159 --> 01:58:00.000 and asking myself often here is what has 01:58:00.000 --> 01:58:02.099 happened to care in this context and 01:58:02.099 --> 01:58:05.760 this big context of the Holocaust 01:58:05.760 --> 01:58:07.800 um and I'm not I don't know the answer 01:58:07.800 --> 01:58:09.719 but I'm wondering 01:58:09.719 --> 01:58:13.080 where have these people gone and it's 01:58:13.080 --> 01:58:14.400 not that 01:58:14.400 --> 01:58:16.619 I'm wanting to make a judgment on them 01:58:16.619 --> 01:58:19.080 because we can all go where they went we 01:58:19.080 --> 01:58:22.260 can all be I mean the whole population 01:58:22.260 --> 01:58:25.380 was pretty much complicit and 01:58:25.380 --> 01:58:28.380 participated in the whole thing and if I 01:58:28.380 --> 01:58:29.880 was there I probably would have as well 01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:32.099 possibly don't know that's a big 01:58:32.099 --> 01:58:33.900 question but I just don't know where the 01:58:33.900 --> 01:58:35.239 Kia 01:58:35.239 --> 01:58:38.580 lives anymore in that sense is it 01:58:38.580 --> 01:58:42.060 completely squashed I don't know I'm not 01:58:42.060 --> 01:58:44.360 sure 01:58:45.420 --> 01:58:48.980 the need to help me out 01:58:50.159 --> 01:58:52.280 um 01:58:56.760 --> 01:58:59.880 I was hoping your question would be 01:58:59.880 --> 01:59:02.099 kind of lively 01:59:02.099 --> 01:59:03.080 um 01:59:03.080 --> 01:59:07.280 this is endless sadness 01:59:08.280 --> 01:59:10.080 you know there's this little book called 01:59:10.080 --> 01:59:12.080 the um 01:59:12.080 --> 01:59:14.699 rediscovery in North America 01:59:14.699 --> 01:59:18.599 are uh Barry Lopez I highly recommend it 01:59:18.599 --> 01:59:19.770 it's a tiny little book 01:59:19.770 --> 01:59:22.679 [Music] 01:59:22.679 --> 01:59:25.920 and it talks about the Spaniards coming 01:59:25.920 --> 01:59:29.900 into the new world 01:59:31.320 --> 01:59:33.719 and destroying all the cultures that 01:59:33.719 --> 01:59:35.219 were there 01:59:35.219 --> 01:59:37.280 um 01:59:38.639 --> 01:59:42.060 it's kind of a holocaust right it's a 01:59:42.060 --> 01:59:43.739 holocaust of 01:59:43.739 --> 01:59:48.679 20 30 40 50 cultures 01:59:51.719 --> 01:59:53.880 so 01:59:53.880 --> 01:59:56.400 I think 01:59:56.400 --> 01:59:59.219 the move here is to say this is Who We 01:59:59.219 --> 02:00:00.179 Are 02:00:00.179 --> 02:00:02.780 yeah 02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:05.639 this is who we are and not that's who 02:00:05.639 --> 02:00:08.119 they are or whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah 02:00:08.119 --> 02:00:10.619 this is who we are Inspire our 02:00:10.619 --> 02:00:13.020 commercial love Faith says we're on a 02:00:13.020 --> 02:00:15.500 slave ship 02:00:15.659 --> 02:00:19.040 this is Who We Are 02:00:26.219 --> 02:00:29.040 I think it's an interesting question is 02:00:29.040 --> 02:00:32.900 like when did we become this 02:00:33.420 --> 02:00:35.880 and I'm not saying it's 02:00:35.880 --> 02:00:39.719 in the Advent of colonialism 02:00:39.719 --> 02:00:42.960 uh at one point we're just a species of 02:00:42.960 --> 02:00:47.540 animals so we weren't like that 02:00:47.760 --> 02:00:49.880 um 02:00:53.400 --> 02:00:55.679 so that's how I would start this 02:00:55.679 --> 02:00:59.880 question like at some point 02:00:59.880 --> 02:01:02.820 we're just animals and then we're like 02:01:02.820 --> 02:01:07.560 kind of human animals and 02:01:07.619 --> 02:01:11.219 um we don't have this power and then at 02:01:11.219 --> 02:01:12.300 some point 02:01:12.300 --> 02:01:16.619 all across the globe this is the kind of 02:01:16.619 --> 02:01:18.420 uh 02:01:18.420 --> 02:01:21.659 behaviors or results we have 02:01:21.659 --> 02:01:23.460 collectively that's an interesting 02:01:23.460 --> 02:01:27.659 question to to ask it that way right so 02:01:27.659 --> 02:01:31.199 I just want to say that the Holocaust 02:01:31.199 --> 02:01:34.040 and 02:01:34.199 --> 02:01:36.260 um 02:01:36.300 --> 02:01:39.000 what we did in the new world is very 02:01:39.000 --> 02:01:43.440 similar the the the total Extinction of 02:01:43.440 --> 02:01:45.480 certain cultures and now we're 02:01:45.480 --> 02:01:50.940 Extinction of other animals 02:01:50.940 --> 02:01:52.199 um 02:01:52.199 --> 02:01:55.199 but this notion of like 02:01:55.199 --> 02:01:57.119 it's not a hard constraint I don't think 02:01:57.119 --> 02:02:01.080 it's like this is who we are Maybe 02:02:01.080 --> 02:02:03.900 maybe this is Who We Are 02:02:03.900 --> 02:02:05.940 if it's already constrained that's an 02:02:05.940 --> 02:02:08.099 interesting question but to put to 02:02:08.099 --> 02:02:11.420 actually think about it 02:02:13.800 --> 02:02:17.280 openly like that and see 02:02:17.280 --> 02:02:19.139 what you learn you know it's a thought 02:02:19.139 --> 02:02:21.780 experiment so 02:02:21.780 --> 02:02:23.900 um 02:02:30.000 --> 02:02:32.880 you know I think that we don't do this 02:02:32.880 --> 02:02:35.400 in the pop-up School 02:02:35.400 --> 02:02:38.880 it's online it's not easy 02:02:38.880 --> 02:02:41.659 but 02:02:42.540 --> 02:02:44.580 everything we do here in the pop-up 02:02:44.580 --> 02:02:45.780 School 02:02:45.780 --> 02:02:48.619 has 02:02:52.020 --> 02:02:54.119 a 02:02:54.119 --> 02:02:56.940 aspect of it that's not included and 02:02:56.940 --> 02:02:59.040 that is these what I call monstrous 02:02:59.040 --> 02:03:01.440 conversations 02:03:01.440 --> 02:03:04.679 and I'm not happy to do them online I 02:03:04.679 --> 02:03:07.260 don't think you can do them online 02:03:07.260 --> 02:03:10.980 but I don't think the deepest questions 02:03:10.980 --> 02:03:15.000 that you're starting to 02:03:15.000 --> 02:03:17.760 think about or 02:03:17.760 --> 02:03:20.820 uh bump into 02:03:20.820 --> 02:03:22.520 our 02:03:22.520 --> 02:03:25.139 resolvable without 02:03:25.139 --> 02:03:27.800 that 02:03:31.920 --> 02:03:36.060 from my own experience like 02:03:36.060 --> 02:03:38.880 but this attitude of like this is who we 02:03:38.880 --> 02:03:41.340 are this is what we do 02:03:41.340 --> 02:03:44.340 not overly 02:03:44.340 --> 02:03:47.099 you know you don't get emotionally too 02:03:47.099 --> 02:03:50.460 depressed or whatever like you just 02:03:50.460 --> 02:03:52.199 be with it 02:03:52.199 --> 02:03:54.840 um this is not something we we have done 02:03:54.840 --> 02:03:58.739 at the pop-up School I'm not sure that 02:03:58.739 --> 02:04:01.500 want to do it online so 02:04:01.500 --> 02:04:04.619 okay okay so I'll just leave there yeah 02:04:04.619 --> 02:04:07.860 but I mean I hope I'm in this I mean I'm 02:04:07.860 --> 02:04:09.780 sitting in this so but thank you for 02:04:09.780 --> 02:04:11.880 that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because 02:04:11.880 --> 02:04:13.199 it's definitely in the literature 02:04:13.199 --> 02:04:15.360 there's a move towards everyone 02:04:15.360 --> 02:04:17.760 could have done that I mean this this is 02:04:17.760 --> 02:04:20.400 where they're going and and yeah yeah so 02:04:20.400 --> 02:04:23.580 it's a question of 02:04:23.580 --> 02:04:27.119 it's it's an interesting question yeah 02:04:27.119 --> 02:04:30.119 but we're building capacity here so 02:04:30.119 --> 02:04:34.020 maybe uh we can go there 02:04:34.020 --> 02:04:37.020 and and just and you know 02:04:37.020 --> 02:04:40.139 so one day 02:04:40.139 --> 02:04:45.540 before the internet you know I'm older 02:04:45.540 --> 02:04:47.820 um we had this little bookstore in this 02:04:47.820 --> 02:04:51.780 little town where I used to work 02:04:51.780 --> 02:04:53.639 and 02:04:53.639 --> 02:04:56.040 you know I'd be on lunch break or 02:04:56.040 --> 02:04:57.840 something and I like to like browse at 02:04:57.840 --> 02:05:00.420 the bookstore and 02:05:00.420 --> 02:05:02.520 I had a lot of art books and this and 02:05:02.520 --> 02:05:04.500 that and they had 02:05:04.500 --> 02:05:08.280 um James naturally do you know him 02:05:08.280 --> 02:05:11.400 uh James naturally 02:05:11.400 --> 02:05:14.400 I didn't know him and I was just 02:05:14.400 --> 02:05:18.239 browsing and I was like oh go in that 02:05:18.239 --> 02:05:21.480 corner with this huge book 02:05:21.480 --> 02:05:25.500 and it was called uh let me see if I can 02:05:25.500 --> 02:05:27.179 find it 02:05:27.179 --> 02:05:29.219 um 02:05:29.219 --> 02:05:31.739 and if you want to come 02:05:31.739 --> 02:05:34.280 here 02:05:37.139 --> 02:05:39.800 uh 02:05:42.420 --> 02:05:45.840 okay so it's this book 02:05:45.840 --> 02:05:48.659 it's a very large format book that I 02:05:48.659 --> 02:05:51.139 have here 02:05:53.940 --> 02:05:58.340 and it was just like in this corner 02:05:58.860 --> 02:06:01.800 and now it might like my hand was like I 02:06:01.800 --> 02:06:03.540 had to go there 02:06:03.540 --> 02:06:06.920 and I bought this book 02:06:08.099 --> 02:06:11.280 and it changed my life but it's a very 02:06:11.280 --> 02:06:15.420 very very deep descent 02:06:15.420 --> 02:06:19.820 into the dark side of humanity 02:06:19.820 --> 02:06:22.440 without it 02:06:22.440 --> 02:06:24.360 um 02:06:24.360 --> 02:06:26.580 the teachings of the pop-up School are 02:06:26.580 --> 02:06:30.320 not complete let me just say that 02:06:31.199 --> 02:06:33.360 Bonita I 02:06:33.360 --> 02:06:35.880 um want to take a contrary point of view 02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:39.599 and say that even the Good Samaritan 02:06:39.599 --> 02:06:42.780 story even Ilitch the Good Samaritan 02:06:42.780 --> 02:06:45.380 story is 02:06:45.380 --> 02:06:49.980 leans into that where did the caring go 02:06:49.980 --> 02:06:54.179 yes I think that the direction of the 02:06:54.179 --> 02:06:57.960 pop-up School into 02:06:58.679 --> 02:07:02.940 um be values and being more human 02:07:02.940 --> 02:07:05.699 requires 02:07:05.699 --> 02:07:09.420 looking back and looking forward and 02:07:09.420 --> 02:07:11.699 going through as you put today the hard 02:07:11.699 --> 02:07:13.500 constraints 02:07:13.500 --> 02:07:16.920 so I understand I think what you're 02:07:16.920 --> 02:07:19.860 saying that this is not the best format 02:07:19.860 --> 02:07:24.239 to talk about a time in history 02:07:24.239 --> 02:07:27.119 and I think I understand what you're 02:07:27.119 --> 02:07:31.260 saying that in order to talk about that 02:07:31.260 --> 02:07:34.020 kind of thing we need to ask the 02:07:34.020 --> 02:07:36.179 questions publicly 02:07:36.179 --> 02:07:37.500 yeah 02:07:37.500 --> 02:07:39.599 I mean it's hard to have monstrous 02:07:39.599 --> 02:07:42.380 conversations 02:07:42.980 --> 02:07:44.639 and 02:07:44.639 --> 02:07:45.480 um 02:07:45.480 --> 02:07:48.300 maybe that's next next year 02:07:48.300 --> 02:07:52.619 pop up 2023 monstrous monstrous 02:07:52.619 --> 02:07:55.679 conversations with monsters the monsters 02:07:55.679 --> 02:07:57.960 that we are and the monsters that we 02:07:57.960 --> 02:07:59.219 produce 02:07:59.219 --> 02:08:03.300 I mean at some point 02:08:03.300 --> 02:08:06.540 um that's part of the journey right you 02:08:06.540 --> 02:08:08.520 need to build capacity and then you need 02:08:08.520 --> 02:08:11.239 to be able to 02:08:12.540 --> 02:08:16.159 look at reality 02:08:17.460 --> 02:08:20.099 and then that reality becomes hard 02:08:20.099 --> 02:08:23.460 constraints and you see possibility you 02:08:23.460 --> 02:08:25.980 know so 02:08:25.980 --> 02:08:27.840 yeah 02:08:27.840 --> 02:08:29.940 it's been excellent 02:08:29.940 --> 02:08:31.619 um session 02:08:31.619 --> 02:08:34.679 I hope you all uh 02:08:34.679 --> 02:08:37.139 uh so we all 02:08:37.139 --> 02:08:39.199 um 02:08:39.540 --> 02:08:42.179 gain something from reception a session 02:08:42.179 --> 02:08:44.840 like this but we also have the recording 02:08:44.840 --> 02:08:47.520 that's in service to other people who 02:08:47.520 --> 02:08:49.139 are watching it and I think this is 02:08:49.139 --> 02:08:52.860 something that uh will be very valuable 02:08:52.860 --> 02:08:55.260 to other people and I thank you so much 02:08:55.260 --> 02:08:59.900 for being a part of making this happen 02:09:00.580 --> 02:09:03.649 [Music] ## Cohort 3 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:06.360 foreign 00:00:22.180 --> 00:00:25.300 [Music] 00:00:29.180 --> 00:00:32.480 so this is uh 00:00:32.480 --> 00:00:36.120 one cohort three color three of the 00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:39.480 recap it's really an open mic 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:44.040 um but I'm also interested in 00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:45.120 um 00:00:45.120 --> 00:00:48.719 yeah recapping like what did this 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:50.039 journey 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.879 uh what stood out for you this journey 00:00:53.879 --> 00:00:57.379 um we talked a little bit how it changed 00:00:57.379 --> 00:00:59.940 might have changed some of our outlook 00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:02.039 on life where the way we experience 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:03.840 things 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:05.960 um 00:01:06.960 --> 00:01:09.479 also if there are still some whoa all 00:01:09.479 --> 00:01:12.000 these people coming in if there are 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.780 still um 00:01:14.820 --> 00:01:17.520 some distinctions that some people want 00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:18.230 to talk about 00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:20.280 [Music] 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:22.860 um well you know what is the question or 00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:25.320 where is 00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:28.680 where is why does it matter 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:30.960 why isn't 00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:33.240 what do we have to say in the world why 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:35.100 are they wrong and we're right if you 00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:36.900 want to put in plan three 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:40.320 uh what what what's the argument about I 00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:42.180 don't know 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:42.900 um 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:47.460 any of those things or or just uh 00:01:47.460 --> 00:01:49.680 uh yeah what's going on today how you 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.920 feeling 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:54.600 I'm in a little weird space because my 00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:57.060 sister just left and we had a kind of a 00:01:57.060 --> 00:02:00.619 difficult week with my mom and 00:02:00.720 --> 00:02:02.820 it turned into a conversation between 00:02:02.820 --> 00:02:04.740 herself and me like what are we gonna do 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:06.360 with that old like we could see 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:08.700 ourselves like this was our trajectory 00:02:08.700 --> 00:02:09.840 and so 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.940 we just had a nice lunch and 00:02:11.940 --> 00:02:14.520 conversation about that so yeah it's 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:19.020 open for uh any and all of 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:21.180 let's just be here enjoy our 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:25.280 conversation and enjoy our company 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:30.060 yeah I just wanted to bring up something 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.099 that's been coming up for me 00:02:32.099 --> 00:02:32.940 um 00:02:32.940 --> 00:02:34.620 just how this courses opened up so much 00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:38.099 and it's been so rich and fulfilling and 00:02:38.099 --> 00:02:39.900 um such a beautiful orientation to the 00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:43.700 world and also as I'm starting to really 00:02:43.700 --> 00:02:47.640 notice how deep the malware runs 00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:48.360 um 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:52.680 just how painful it also really is like 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.780 um how frustrating it really feels 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.959 sometimes to recognize 00:02:57.959 --> 00:02:59.459 about 00:02:59.459 --> 00:03:02.459 um little I see and how kind of 00:03:02.459 --> 00:03:05.940 possessed I can get by my thoughts 00:03:05.940 --> 00:03:07.379 um and so it's just been a real struggle 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:08.940 I mean keep trying to come back to that 00:03:08.940 --> 00:03:11.580 elocentric but sometimes it just feels 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:15.060 Relentless and overwhelming and like too 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:18.319 big to take on sometimes 00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:33.200 thank you ollie the first thing that 00:03:33.420 --> 00:03:34.860 um 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:36.420 I've had a 00:03:36.420 --> 00:03:39.420 absolutely 00:03:40.580 --> 00:03:43.140 bizarre week 00:03:43.140 --> 00:03:45.299 um the one previous to this 00:03:45.299 --> 00:03:46.560 because 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.760 um I actually went to a retreat 00:03:50.760 --> 00:03:54.420 um a warm data Retreat and I've been 00:03:54.420 --> 00:03:57.980 you know working with this 00:03:57.980 --> 00:03:59.760 inquiry 00:03:59.760 --> 00:04:03.720 since March 2020. 00:04:03.720 --> 00:04:06.299 and 00:04:06.299 --> 00:04:08.780 um it was 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:15.239 so bizarre to all of a sudden be in what 00:04:15.239 --> 00:04:17.579 we call in real life with people I've 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:19.859 seen 00:04:19.859 --> 00:04:21.540 um 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:23.400 um Zoom 00:04:23.400 --> 00:04:25.380 basis 00:04:25.380 --> 00:04:28.280 and 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:33.060 I I felt this 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:33.780 um 00:04:33.780 --> 00:04:38.639 you know intense confirmation of what 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:39.900 led me 00:04:39.900 --> 00:04:43.820 to come here to 00:04:43.820 --> 00:04:46.740 the pop-up School 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:50.400 and yet I I couldn't really 00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:52.979 speak to it 00:04:52.979 --> 00:04:53.880 um 00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:59.280 I mean didn't have to either but 00:04:59.880 --> 00:05:03.720 um despite chance I I watched 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:05.400 um 00:05:05.400 --> 00:05:12.240 a question funny you post to David Kelly 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:14.540 on his book 00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:18.720 that where you referred to 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.780 uh him quoting 00:05:21.780 --> 00:05:22.500 um 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:24.840 evangelich 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:26.600 on the 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:31.560 having come out of the Bates and spell 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.759 and I went back to find that passage to 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.580 help me sort of navigate 00:05:38.580 --> 00:05:41.060 my 00:05:41.060 --> 00:05:45.539 very unward sense of 00:05:45.539 --> 00:05:47.580 how to navigate 00:05:47.580 --> 00:05:49.680 this 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.580 kind of 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:55.800 uh 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.680 when do I call it parallax 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.500 it's kind of a parallax 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:02.880 um 00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:05.160 and 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.360 I just uh I really want to 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:13.259 attempt to speak to 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:15.479 oh 00:06:15.479 --> 00:06:19.500 how important it was to feel 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.020 like even though I couldn't articulate 00:06:22.020 --> 00:06:23.520 it 00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:27.380 it really helped me 00:06:27.780 --> 00:06:29.639 somehow 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:31.319 navigate 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:35.160 that experience and 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:36.840 you know 00:06:36.840 --> 00:06:41.520 I think one of the things that 00:06:41.520 --> 00:06:44.819 stuck out for me was you know how 00:06:44.819 --> 00:06:48.240 Spinoza says we don't yet know what a 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.880 body can do 00:06:50.880 --> 00:06:56.539 I I really feel like that's what you are 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.460 not only 00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:02.460 unraveling 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.479 but also clearly something that we're a 00:07:06.479 --> 00:07:10.460 long way from knowing what 00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:14.840 thought in a body can do 00:07:16.020 --> 00:07:18.919 and 00:07:19.380 --> 00:07:22.340 you know I feel like 00:07:22.340 --> 00:07:24.780 it's been 00:07:24.780 --> 00:07:29.520 um a beginning of a very different way 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:31.880 home 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:34.560 even 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.560 if 00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:40.699 um 00:07:45.479 --> 00:07:47.220 I guess 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:49.979 I'm also 00:07:49.979 --> 00:07:52.220 deeply moved by 00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:56.340 the the care and and 00:07:56.340 --> 00:07:59.360 the labor and the 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.199 dwellings 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:04.560 or maybe even better 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.560 dilation 00:08:08.340 --> 00:08:11.940 of the space of the people 00:08:11.940 --> 00:08:16.940 who have surrounded you in this work 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.639 it's 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:23.039 deeply moving 00:08:23.039 --> 00:08:26.520 um and so so so necessary 00:08:26.520 --> 00:08:31.379 and even though I'm a newbie still I 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:36.959 feel and it's okay to the pop-up School 00:08:36.959 --> 00:08:39.080 um 00:08:39.180 --> 00:08:40.500 you know 00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:41.940 um 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:43.700 it's it's 00:08:43.700 --> 00:08:46.339 the the 00:08:46.339 --> 00:08:51.180 rigorous Attunement to this kind of belt 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:52.740 uh 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:54.959 singularity 00:08:54.959 --> 00:08:58.140 you know of each of us 00:08:58.140 --> 00:09:00.540 being a body 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:04.519 and feeling thought 00:09:04.800 --> 00:09:06.899 and 00:09:06.899 --> 00:09:11.040 and the way the learning kind of 00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:12.480 glitches 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.880 glitches 00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:16.820 you know 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:20.640 previously unnoticed 00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:22.760 um 00:09:23.040 --> 00:09:26.640 other wiseness 00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:30.899 and and and the outside Finds Its way 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:33.180 inside 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:39.120 and you kind of swim in these floaty 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.120 ambiguities 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.860 and and I love the way the geek thinking 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:51.180 game seems to be played very differently 00:09:51.180 --> 00:09:53.779 like 00:09:54.180 --> 00:09:57.300 I feel like Bonnie you 00:09:57.300 --> 00:10:00.959 you sneakily add another chair every 00:10:00.959 --> 00:10:03.480 time the Music Stops instead of taking 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.140 one away 00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:08.700 you know 00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:09.600 um 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.540 and 00:10:11.540 --> 00:10:16.800 the ways of the intergenerational 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:22.920 attending to the extra of the ordinary 00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:28.320 is you know has no sort of flailing 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.040 you know 00:10:31.260 --> 00:10:33.720 um but with just the right amount of 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.820 playfulness necessary to 00:10:37.820 --> 00:10:43.019 Dodge and Duck and dignify all these 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:45.860 pins and needles 00:10:45.860 --> 00:10:49.320 and and and which doesn't preclude 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.220 arriving at moments of 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.660 serendipitous insight 00:10:54.660 --> 00:10:59.959 and I'll close by 00:10:59.959 --> 00:11:03.660 saying that it's also 00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:05.420 to me 00:11:05.420 --> 00:11:08.100 profoundly sincere 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.920 and and I go to the 00:11:10.920 --> 00:11:15.360 kind of etymology of that word which is 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.339 very curious 00:11:17.339 --> 00:11:20.820 um which means without wax 00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:24.899 because if the marble 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:28.440 um of the sculpture was chipped cracked 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.680 or damaged dishonest sculptor would melt 00:11:31.680 --> 00:11:34.260 lacks into the marble dust 00:11:34.260 --> 00:11:37.380 using it to conceal the flaw 00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:39.959 or imperfection 00:11:39.959 --> 00:11:43.260 so an honest Sculptor 00:11:43.260 --> 00:11:46.019 would make the statement that the 00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:50.760 sculpture was seen Etc without wax 00:11:50.760 --> 00:11:53.160 and that's what I 00:11:53.160 --> 00:11:56.120 have encountered here again and again 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.620 and I feel like I have to start the 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:01.279 whole course over 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.040 during the rest of the summer before the 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:05.820 fall 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:09.079 in order to even 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.480 you know 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:17.899 continue to walk in this other way home 00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:21.680 so yeah 00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:25.380 and I thought I was gonna cry it might 00:12:25.380 --> 00:12:27.860 still happen 00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:40.800 thank you I just want to say 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:44.579 um I'm very much aware how tough it is 00:12:44.579 --> 00:12:47.639 when you first get in to this course 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:49.680 you know and 00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:53.459 um in remembering you as a new student 00:12:53.459 --> 00:12:55.980 or whatever because you know people come 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:58.680 in and they want to 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:01.740 contribute and shine and and we're doing 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:03.720 something so weird here that it's like 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.420 nah not that when you first come in it's 00:13:06.420 --> 00:13:10.260 like yeah good try but nah it's not that 00:13:10.260 --> 00:13:13.019 so there's a lot of I mean does anybody 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:16.500 experience that like At first like yeah 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:21.060 and so on this end uh I just want to 00:13:21.060 --> 00:13:25.200 reflect back that I realized it it takes 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.920 a certain stubbornness and and and of 00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:31.620 course magazine what was helpful by the 00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:33.300 time you joined is you're like the one 00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:34.920 of these what do these other people look 00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:36.660 like they're having such a good time you 00:13:36.660 --> 00:13:38.040 know what I mean 00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:40.920 um but it is a and it takes different 00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:43.320 forms like you know the Zen people who 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.079 are all empty of self I tease them in a 00:13:46.079 --> 00:13:48.839 certain way and there's this there's 00:13:48.839 --> 00:13:52.380 this uh 00:13:52.380 --> 00:13:55.380 there's this door Christ defeat you have 00:13:55.380 --> 00:14:01.519 to pay uh so I just kudos to people who 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.440 um 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:09.240 do the work I mean it's not easy to to 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.160 um go through that that 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.899 I I recognize is it can be 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:20.639 an initial 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.399 uh challenge so 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.320 um 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.720 yeah I don't know I guess that must make 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.180 sense to everyone yeah 00:14:30.180 --> 00:14:34.139 um because it is in a sense 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:36.360 there's something uncompromising about 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.279 what we're doing but it's not any of the 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:40.139 things you think were uncompromising 00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:42.600 about I don't even know what to say what 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.940 it is because we're not uncompromising 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:47.760 about being embodied versus being this 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.279 or being that versus being that or 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.440 whatever that's hard to find but there 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.139 is a sense that 00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:57.779 uh we're holding each other up to 00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:59.820 uncompromising and and I just want to 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.399 say that um it's it's gotten so it's not 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.560 only me now 00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:07.139 so for example someone said Claudia said 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:08.940 last time something about not findable 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:11.699 and we we sat with that and it was true 00:15:11.699 --> 00:15:15.899 but then someone said but you know like 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:18.720 um this is this is not saturated fully 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.480 saturated with understanding yet right 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.240 and so this notion of 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.519 not being fully saturated with 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.980 understanding and if it's not then keep 00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:32.820 it open and if it is then move on uh so 00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:35.579 yeah so there's something that I just 00:15:35.579 --> 00:15:38.820 want to acknowledge on the other side of 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:41.760 the compliment is always 00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:44.639 uh work that people are doing on the 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.620 other side to make it happen amongst 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:49.320 other things just just pointing this 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.459 particular 00:15:50.459 --> 00:15:53.160 one out and other people want to speak 00:15:53.160 --> 00:15:56.940 to that that's cool too but yeah like at 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.100 the beginning I don't even let you use 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:01.620 words right the way you want to use 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:03.420 words stuff like that 00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:06.260 yeah David 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.279 um thank you it was me that raised the 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.440 hand I don't know how to lower him 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:20.060 you get this out of this space 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:23.720 oh my God Marie 00:16:24.839 --> 00:16:27.019 um 00:16:31.680 --> 00:16:33.959 I raise my hand because of what you said 00:16:33.959 --> 00:16:36.600 about your day and your week Bonnie 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.839 and I raise my hand in response to 00:16:39.839 --> 00:16:44.180 madalena and Holly 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.560 to try to trigger 00:16:49.560 --> 00:16:53.399 the ability to thrive in the pop-up 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:59.339 school here and now and moving into the 00:16:59.339 --> 00:17:00.899 fall 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:05.819 the ability to thrive here now 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:09.959 and I think it's going to take 17 of us 00:17:09.959 --> 00:17:15.079 so I invite you all into my 00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:20.120 what do we call it cramming session 00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:23.339 cramming session 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:25.679 and I'm really talking to Sandra and 00:17:25.679 --> 00:17:28.220 array too 00:17:32.179 --> 00:17:35.760 this is mystery and genius 00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:38.760 2023 00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:54.120 so my attention 00:17:54.120 --> 00:17:57.840 this morning and we got into 00:17:57.840 --> 00:18:00.840 Kairos so the time is gone so I couldn't 00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:02.760 cram so I'm lighting you into my 00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:05.539 cramming room 00:18:07.860 --> 00:18:10.580 you know 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.799 we did seven modules 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.820 in a row 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:23.600 oh my tension my tension is I love 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:27.120 conviviality and I love your stories the 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:31.100 warm data Retreat the difficulty holding 00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:36.900 life's reality I love that you know me 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:39.360 and yet 00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:42.780 I look at this word recap and I want to 00:18:42.780 --> 00:18:46.620 go back and reflect on what the things 00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:50.700 that brought me to today are 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:54.320 how does memory 00:18:54.860 --> 00:18:59.700 dovetail with the justification system 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:02.940 not how does it sit next to it how does 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.299 it dovetail in my present time now 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:09.799 how does perception 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:17.220 elegantly fit into disposition affect 00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:19.620 and emotion 00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:23.840 so that's what I want to cram on today 00:19:23.840 --> 00:19:28.020 so that we can create a new theory in 00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:32.940 the days ahead so that we can thrive in 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.460 this mystery 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:38.220 that Bonnie somehow is trying to share 00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:40.760 with us 00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:54.900 so I'm going to drop a couple of quotes 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:58.919 and see and I'm here to 00:19:58.919 --> 00:20:01.080 I want to start by giving you a massage 00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:05.100 and then I want to start and continue by 00:20:05.100 --> 00:20:07.799 seeing where it leads do we lead into a 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.380 breakout do we do what do we do here 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:12.780 today to 00:20:12.780 --> 00:20:15.660 support thriving together 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:17.700 to going out on the walk this afternoon 00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:19.799 was you know it's morning here you go 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:21.059 out and walk 00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.460 and so I can bring Katie with me and 00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:26.240 evil with me 00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:32.640 memory it is selective and in service of 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.900 presence 00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:35.700 or future 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:40.020 and get shaped by what we want to be the 00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:41.700 case 00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.960 rather than 00:20:45.419 --> 00:20:50.720 what was actually the case 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:03.299 as we build our taxonomy of embodied 00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:05.160 experience 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.160 it is important to distinguish what we 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.880 mean by imagination 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:18.440 from what we mean by virtual perception 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.720 flux is a form of flow 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.360 but not one 00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:34.919 but with one crucial difference 00:21:34.919 --> 00:21:38.720 water can flow in a river or traffic 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.380 down a street 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.220 what goes 00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:46.440 in at one end 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.500 and what comes out at the other 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:53.880 is the same thing water 00:21:54.780 --> 00:21:59.760 or cars in Biochemistry Lux is the flow 00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:02.640 of things that are transformed along the 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.320 way 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:07.740 imagine a car entering a street let's 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:09.960 say it's a VW Beetle 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.960 no certainly no sooner has it gone 10 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.659 yards down 00:22:15.659 --> 00:22:19.860 then there's a blinding Flash and it 00:22:19.860 --> 00:22:23.000 becomes a Volvo 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:28.980 affect Laden arousal energy therefore is 00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:31.760 part of the primordial 00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:34.500 perceptual stream 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:38.400 it is what affords the energy of the 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.039 perceptual motion 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.700 the seed as it were that germinates 00:22:44.700 --> 00:22:48.360 but also what constrains the search 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:51.380 field to Gold directed 00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:55.280 purposeful relevance 00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:03.900 I'll just give my statement the Elegance 00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:08.880 of pure abstraction the Elegance of math 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.320 and pure abstraction 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.720 meaning and the justification system 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.480 so what's your disposition right now 00:23:23.580 --> 00:23:26.840 right or Sandra 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.780 what is it like to be me 00:23:42.780 --> 00:23:45.919 In This Moment 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.700 wobbly 00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:56.100 excited 00:24:00.600 --> 00:24:03.299 something like this 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:06.500 in listening to you 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.620 and 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:14.950 what Drew my attention 00:24:14.950 --> 00:24:17.059 [Music] 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.799 was the the 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.260 shaping 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:24.360 that we do 00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:27.000 in memory 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.020 so the particular thing that just came 00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:34.679 that I remembered was 00:24:34.679 --> 00:24:38.280 losing the key to my car 00:24:38.280 --> 00:24:41.880 recently and insisting like I know it 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.220 was on the dining room table 00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:47.039 my husband must have taken it 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.919 because it looks just like his key and 00:24:49.919 --> 00:24:53.039 he's he's that kind of person who puts 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.440 all the keys in his pocket 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.559 but that wasn't the case and I kept 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.720 looking and kind of being in that 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.940 vigilant 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:05.460 it's got to be somewhere I want to find 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:08.340 it I want to find it I want to find it 00:25:08.340 --> 00:25:09.840 and then 00:25:09.840 --> 00:25:12.720 in the same way that things often happen 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.700 when I've lost them 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:21.419 I sat down to put on my shoes 00:25:21.419 --> 00:25:23.340 and I had the thought I want that key 00:25:23.340 --> 00:25:24.779 right now 00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:27.659 and I picked up my sneaker and it was in 00:25:27.659 --> 00:25:30.260 my sneaker 00:25:32.340 --> 00:25:35.580 so that's kind of 00:25:35.580 --> 00:25:39.840 how it is at the pop-up school for me 00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:43.460 that that 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.380 flux 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.779 a sneaker is not just a sneaker it's a 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.360 key holder 00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:55.340 um is happening more and more 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:59.940 and I love that you want us to like 00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.919 Assemble 00:26:01.919 --> 00:26:06.539 and reconfigure and 00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:10.500 um marinade or digest or some you know 00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:12.779 something 00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:15.000 that 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.120 um 00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:20.960 gathers us 00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:23.960 and 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.200 as Bonnie said kind of you know it's 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:31.799 there's always movement and 00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.620 sort of this evolutionary 00:26:34.620 --> 00:26:37.340 potential 00:26:37.340 --> 00:26:40.700 of the whole 00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.360 and I think you know to just add one 00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:53.039 more thing the appreciation 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.520 that I've had and have 00:26:56.520 --> 00:26:59.720 In This Moment 00:27:02.820 --> 00:27:06.419 that the screen in front of me is 00:27:06.419 --> 00:27:08.820 feels 00:27:08.820 --> 00:27:12.320 not at all virtual 00:27:12.659 --> 00:27:15.779 like increasingly I have a deepening 00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:20.580 sense of who these humans are that some 00:27:20.580 --> 00:27:25.279 some I've seen in person and many not 00:27:25.919 --> 00:27:28.559 and the connections feel very strong and 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.080 and 00:27:30.080 --> 00:27:32.100 real and 00:27:32.100 --> 00:27:35.059 nourishing 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:40.080 so I'll pass it over to Marie 00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:44.960 with her hand waving in the corner 00:28:03.120 --> 00:28:06.860 Marie you have to unmute 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.320 there we go thank you 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:16.260 so going back to 00:28:16.260 --> 00:28:18.919 um what is challenging about 00:28:18.919 --> 00:28:23.220 uh this the the learning we're being 00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:25.380 invited into here 00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:26.760 and 00:28:26.760 --> 00:28:27.659 um 00:28:27.659 --> 00:28:31.740 I'm wanting to kind of Express see if I 00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:34.080 can put words to my own 00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:36.240 um experience of that 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.840 one thing that I love about 00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:41.220 um 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:45.240 the modules is the Precision 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.940 that is 00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:53.039 um kind of core you know that there's 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.940 um a preciseness to the definitions and 00:28:56.940 --> 00:28:58.919 the different concepts 00:28:58.919 --> 00:29:05.240 and yet at the same time when I try and 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:09.120 pass that through my mind to articulate 00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:11.700 something it's like 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:15.059 I'm reminded a bit of what it's like 00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:17.880 when I wake up in the morning and try 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.659 and tell about a dream like the more I 00:29:21.659 --> 00:29:25.320 talk about it the more like the dream is 00:29:25.320 --> 00:29:31.190 just gone like the access and is is 00:29:31.190 --> 00:29:31.620 [Music] 00:29:31.620 --> 00:29:32.460 um 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:36.440 it like there's 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.500 um 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:40.500 it just doesn't work that way right to 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:45.179 be able to access the content of a dream 00:29:45.179 --> 00:29:47.299 um 00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:52.500 and similarly oftentimes when I try and 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:55.500 access the Precision of the language in 00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:58.279 some of the modules it sort of just 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.980 dissolves on me and it's it's like I'm 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.919 using the wrong 00:30:04.919 --> 00:30:07.860 the wrong quality of mind like trying to 00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:10.159 use 00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:12.659 um 00:30:12.659 --> 00:30:15.480 I'm reminded of the quote that you put 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.240 in the chat last time 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.679 Bonnie about how I want to 00:30:22.679 --> 00:30:26.940 um dance I wanna I want my body to 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.159 express dance I'm not going to get the 00:30:29.159 --> 00:30:30.720 words right 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:35.880 um I want my mind to be able to 00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:36.500 um 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:40.200 to think in the way that my body 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.100 responds to dancing you're gonna 00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:46.020 um 00:30:46.020 --> 00:30:49.080 and it's without the mind 00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:50.880 um 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:54.140 something like that 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:55.799 so 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.659 um 00:30:57.659 --> 00:31:00.200 yeah 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.100 that's what I wanted to say 00:31:12.840 --> 00:31:15.679 David 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:20.039 I'm David I'm curious why is it that I 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:21.419 heard that you said you wanted to hear 00:31:21.419 --> 00:31:24.919 from me as well is that correct 00:31:27.899 --> 00:31:32.659 two or three times I said that okay 00:31:36.120 --> 00:31:38.240 um 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:41.940 so 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:43.919 talked about this a while ago the way 00:31:43.919 --> 00:31:45.539 that 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:47.159 um 00:31:47.159 --> 00:31:51.120 a few years ago I decided to 00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:54.299 try to digest this kind of information 00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:58.559 was by making lots of notes and reading 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.860 and rereading and 00:32:00.860 --> 00:32:04.919 and I realized that that's not how I 00:32:04.919 --> 00:32:08.299 learn it's not how I'm gonna 00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:13.020 kind of uh I don't even know 00:32:13.020 --> 00:32:15.779 how to say it but 00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:20.100 to to to to allow 00:32:20.340 --> 00:32:23.940 the experience of life to to have a kind 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:25.919 of poignancy 00:32:25.919 --> 00:32:28.799 and directness that 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:32.100 um is a base of longing for for as long 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:34.380 as I can remember 00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:37.200 so there was there was this a handful of 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.120 teachings over the past couple of years 00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:42.000 in a pop-up School 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.700 that seemed so 00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:47.940 rich and poignant and and kind of 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.880 saturated that I just keep returning to 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.080 those 00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:53.820 and then 00:32:53.820 --> 00:32:56.039 the other course materials kind of 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:57.899 filler 00:32:57.899 --> 00:33:01.279 it's not filler it 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:04.200 part of the teaching comes through in 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.539 certain ways that fortifies 00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:09.899 this this kind of I'm going to call it 00:33:09.899 --> 00:33:12.840 Simplicity but it's anything but simple 00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:14.940 this this kind of Simplicity that's 00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:16.860 that's 00:33:16.860 --> 00:33:20.700 that I think is has become 00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:23.700 more and more apparent 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:25.860 um and it's it's 00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:28.320 there's a reciproc um 00:33:28.320 --> 00:33:30.179 that's not the right word there's a 00:33:30.179 --> 00:33:32.640 relationality 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:35.519 if I go for a walk and I see some weeds 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.059 happen the other day again 00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:41.039 these weeds are like 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.899 I don't know they're moving in slow 00:33:42.899 --> 00:33:46.440 motion like there there's more of 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:48.840 there's not more weeds but there's more 00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:51.419 of the weed that's available and 00:33:51.419 --> 00:33:55.220 sometimes it's so striking that 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.299 I that the visual continues a good half 00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:02.340 mile down the road 00:34:02.340 --> 00:34:06.740 and I can still see these weeds kind of 00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:08.520 unfolding 00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:11.300 and 00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.639 and so there's that that I've kind of 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:21.300 finally figured out to just let alone 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:23.099 and 00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:24.659 um 00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:28.260 let that unfold as it does 00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:30.960 and the other thing that was 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.260 that was uh really 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:35.760 struck me 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.300 um was Bonnie when you posted some of um 00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:40.980 Christopher Alexander's writings 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:42.540 on 00:34:42.540 --> 00:34:46.080 on in in a sense the eye that I 00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:48.659 experience as as so-called mind is 00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:51.179 actually the the presence of the eye of 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:52.919 the universe 00:34:52.919 --> 00:34:57.619 of the presence of Eye of life and 00:34:59.240 --> 00:35:02.820 and that 00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:05.760 just kind of lives on my shoulder 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.280 now 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.380 um 00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.960 and so that sense of I started thinking 00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.079 about everybody just this sense of I it 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.060 it didn't have to be cultivated it 00:35:18.060 --> 00:35:21.240 cultivated it was given 00:35:21.240 --> 00:35:25.099 it was just freely given 00:35:30.060 --> 00:35:34.020 so there's a there's a kind of Grace for 00:35:34.020 --> 00:35:36.540 me in that 00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:39.180 and there's a Grace for me in letting 00:35:39.180 --> 00:35:43.099 myself learn the way that I learn and 00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:49.380 I remember back in the early days we 00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:52.640 were Elder Lauren 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.200 Bonnie looked at me and said something 00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:58.680 like like don't you say anything 00:35:58.680 --> 00:36:00.780 or 00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:02.880 you always do this you don't say 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.060 anything 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.220 and there's something about learning how 00:36:08.220 --> 00:36:09.480 to let that 00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:12.020 be 00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:16.200 um and because the moment I try to 00:36:16.200 --> 00:36:18.960 perform that not only is it gone it's 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.339 just it's just silly 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:25.920 so 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.339 this course and all the material 00:36:29.339 --> 00:36:32.700 all the all the nuance and the uh the 00:36:32.700 --> 00:36:34.859 Precision like Marie mentioned 00:36:34.859 --> 00:36:37.560 and all the incredible depth 00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:40.619 most of which it seems like I miss but 00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.240 there's quality there's threads of it 00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:43.260 that have 00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:46.200 feeding me tremendously like I can't 00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:49.460 even I can't imagine 00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:57.359 and so yeah that the other part of this 00:36:57.359 --> 00:36:59.880 is this I I just finished for the sixth 00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.540 time reading wild mind wild Earth 00:37:03.540 --> 00:37:06.660 and there's something in in that little 00:37:06.660 --> 00:37:09.119 book that uh just keeps feeding back 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.480 into 00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.619 what we're all learning at the pop-up 00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:15.920 screen 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.260 all right one one last thing there's 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:47.760 something 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:49.680 and I I never thought that I would say 00:37:49.680 --> 00:37:51.920 this 00:37:52.560 --> 00:37:55.619 but there but there's there's but the 00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:57.960 only thing that's left is 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.260 even with the weeds is this feeling of 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.079 love this relationality that 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.859 is is always available and it's like 00:38:07.859 --> 00:38:10.380 overwhelming sometimes 00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:11.820 so I would 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:13.560 I don't know what else to call that but 00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:15.800 love 00:38:39.839 --> 00:38:42.119 and a shitload of gratitude for all of 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:44.240 you 00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:19.619 foreign 00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:25.579 thank you Ray 00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:30.920 I'm a bit emotional but my memory 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.540 organizes around 00:39:33.540 --> 00:39:37.980 arriving at Bonnie's Ranch driving with 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:40.140 an hours 00:39:40.140 --> 00:39:42.660 arriving and Sandy saying no I don't 00:39:42.660 --> 00:39:45.359 park there pointing over park over there 00:39:45.359 --> 00:39:49.460 and in the distance I saw you 00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:53.460 but I find my way into the house and got 00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:57.680 ready and hugged and kissed a few of you 00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:00.240 and I saw you 00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:03.060 in the Corral 00:40:03.060 --> 00:40:05.640 when I saw you on the side of the 00:40:05.640 --> 00:40:07.380 mountain 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:12.020 and I saw you on the side of the barn 00:40:12.780 --> 00:40:14.160 and 00:40:14.160 --> 00:40:17.160 silence 00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:18.839 in 00:40:18.839 --> 00:40:21.859 our world 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:26.400 and as I sit here listening to you 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:30.839 I feel the same kind of Grace 00:40:30.839 --> 00:40:34.140 that opened up the door for me to feel 00:40:34.140 --> 00:40:35.880 the horses 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:40.380 and feel you and to be a Marine 00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:43.760 and who else oh 00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.119 maybe young about it so thank you for 00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:49.980 the grace of sharing yourself with us 00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:51.300 today right 00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:53.400 thank you for sharing yourself with me 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.000 on that day 00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:28.020 Bonnie I have a question 00:41:28.020 --> 00:41:30.359 the quote that you put in I want the 00:41:30.359 --> 00:41:32.400 words to come out of my mouth the way 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.920 the dance comes out of my body entirely 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.240 free of my mind 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.820 is entirely free of my mind or is it 00:41:43.820 --> 00:41:47.420 entirely free of 00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:49.820 the mind 00:41:49.820 --> 00:41:53.460 entirely a mind free of entirely free of 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:55.820 malware 00:41:57.240 --> 00:42:01.020 is it you know well that's a big 00:42:01.020 --> 00:42:03.380 question 00:42:09.380 --> 00:42:12.240 and is that possible 00:42:12.240 --> 00:42:14.640 it hurts well it's definitely possible 00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:19.260 but then of course it also requires us 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:22.560 being precise with what we mean by mind 00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:25.020 versus what we don't mean by mind and 00:42:25.020 --> 00:42:27.960 blah blah blah but 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:33.540 um I would say mind here 00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:36.240 maps onto 00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:39.540 um so I'm gonna use 00:42:39.540 --> 00:42:42.839 first thing I use Greg Enriquez 00:42:42.839 --> 00:42:46.380 system you know he has animal Minds we 00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:48.900 call it animal nature 00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.660 and then he has 00:42:51.660 --> 00:42:53.839 um 00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:02.040 not sure he calls it mind one human mind 00:43:02.040 --> 00:43:04.500 one and then he has minds too which is 00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:07.560 the justification system 00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:10.579 narrative representation 00:43:10.579 --> 00:43:13.319 uh what else what did I call narrative 00:43:13.319 --> 00:43:15.240 representation justification system 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:19.319 that's what I wanted to be free of 00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.960 um but for me when you're free of that 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:26.839 it's you're you're really basically 00:43:28.560 --> 00:43:31.560 uh very close to working with the you 00:43:31.560 --> 00:43:33.420 know animal nature you're still 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:36.839 simulating the animals can simulate sub 00:43:36.839 --> 00:43:40.339 language animals have language 00:43:40.680 --> 00:43:43.680 but you're not in narrative or the 00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:46.020 justification system now having said 00:43:46.020 --> 00:43:49.619 that I like to tell stories but that's 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:52.260 different than narrative mind that 00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:54.660 even the stories I tell even the stories 00:43:54.660 --> 00:43:57.900 I tell about me for my childhood 00:43:57.900 --> 00:43:59.940 I don't even know how to relate to them 00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.339 whether they're real or that to me or 00:44:02.339 --> 00:44:04.380 they're not they're they're useful and 00:44:04.380 --> 00:44:07.380 they arise in the moment 00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:09.839 um because they're brought out by what's 00:44:09.839 --> 00:44:12.480 ever happening in the moment 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.599 um and so 00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.119 I heard myself tell the same story in 00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:19.980 different ways sometimes it's just the 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.920 same story that wants to come out 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:24.780 um so that's what I would mean by mind 00:44:24.780 --> 00:44:26.940 that part that we talked about narrative 00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:28.920 the justification system and Ice 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.040 representational thinking 00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:34.260 um it 00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:37.160 what I'm saying isn't 00:44:37.160 --> 00:44:40.079 representing anything really there it's 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.300 this use of language is pointing out or 00:44:42.300 --> 00:44:45.119 pointing to something 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:46.800 um 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.079 sometimes it's a little more complex 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.480 because I'd be pointing out a passage in 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:53.400 a book that then points to something 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.940 we're talking about so it could have 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:59.579 oh it could be layered in a certain way 00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:02.280 it was a certain complexity to it but 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.560 that's the closest I can get to say I 00:45:04.560 --> 00:45:07.380 mean I hope you you heard what I just 00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:08.460 said is 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:13.440 I literally mean it like entirely free 00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.000 of 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.800 what he calls mind 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.260 to 00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:20.400 um 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.079 and 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.200 um 00:45:26.220 --> 00:45:30.060 so my the mind also that is free of is 00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:33.599 the mind that expects a goal okay I have 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.339 a goal I'm gonna say something I have a 00:45:35.339 --> 00:45:37.560 goal at the end and I'm going to Fashion 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:40.140 what I say to keep moving toward that 00:45:40.140 --> 00:45:41.700 goal 00:45:41.700 --> 00:45:43.619 um so sometimes I do that sometimes I 00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:45.300 have to do that especially when I'm 00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:47.940 talking to people like Greg and I'm like 00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:51.660 how can I say this different but 00:45:51.660 --> 00:45:53.940 that's not what you know I want I want 00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:57.200 this other thing to happen 00:45:57.720 --> 00:46:01.200 um single Loop you know single Loop 00:46:01.200 --> 00:46:04.140 speaking not covet compiles your 00:46:04.140 --> 00:46:06.420 sentences and 00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:09.180 go forward and backwards and stuff like 00:46:09.180 --> 00:46:10.680 that so that's that's kind of what I 00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:13.560 mean about it and of course dancing with 00:46:13.560 --> 00:46:15.540 entirely free of your mind's not easy 00:46:15.540 --> 00:46:18.540 either right who's watching me you know 00:46:18.540 --> 00:46:21.420 you know so the difficulty is not of a 00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:23.579 different order 00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:26.700 because sometimes it's hard to dance 00:46:26.700 --> 00:46:30.119 free of your self-conscious mind or you 00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:33.180 know the looping the loopy loop 00:46:33.180 --> 00:46:36.599 um another way to put it is 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.060 this is where the Precision in our in 00:46:39.060 --> 00:46:41.460 our course comes because it's a very 00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:43.140 sophisticated question and if we 00:46:43.140 --> 00:46:44.819 couldn't make distinctions how could I 00:46:44.819 --> 00:46:47.640 possibly answer it right but another way 00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:49.500 to think about it is that like other 00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:51.780 animals we can simulate our environments 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.640 and we can simulate hypothetical 00:46:53.640 --> 00:46:55.380 environments 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.380 but unlike what other animals we 00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:01.020 simulate ourselves right 00:47:01.020 --> 00:47:02.700 and so 00:47:02.700 --> 00:47:05.520 a lot of times when we're dancing what 00:47:05.520 --> 00:47:07.859 we're actually we're simulating oh this 00:47:07.859 --> 00:47:09.720 is what I must look like to other people 00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:12.900 right we have a we're running we're 00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:15.119 simultaneously running a simulation of 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:16.920 ourselves 00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:19.619 and that's the that's the kind of 00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:21.720 simulation is what I would call the mind 00:47:21.720 --> 00:47:24.720 that I Want to Be Free of and the same 00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:27.420 with think speaking we're not it's just 00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:30.060 not a first order we're on participating 00:47:30.060 --> 00:47:31.319 with you 00:47:31.319 --> 00:47:33.960 I'm running it simultaneously running a 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.000 simulation of what are we saying who's 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.180 winning what is where is this going 00:47:38.180 --> 00:47:40.920 that's and it's the same with dancing 00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:42.540 the same kind of simulation you're 00:47:42.540 --> 00:47:44.099 running because you wonder what you must 00:47:44.099 --> 00:47:46.680 look like and you know 00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:49.260 um so that that would be what I want to 00:47:49.260 --> 00:47:52.079 be entirely for you so those are I 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.319 hadn't actually uh unpacked it before 00:47:55.319 --> 00:47:58.020 but that's I would say that's the gist 00:47:58.020 --> 00:48:00.260 of it 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.640 okay so I want to say something 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.200 this morning 00:48:10.200 --> 00:48:14.339 I was playing with arousal 00:48:14.339 --> 00:48:18.500 and justification systems 00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:21.599 and else I really want to see if I can 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.079 get this 00:48:25.020 --> 00:48:26.339 um 00:48:26.339 --> 00:48:29.460 because our arousal 00:48:29.460 --> 00:48:32.280 is contained 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.980 it gets trained 00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:36.960 to live inside of our justification 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.440 systems 00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:42.480 and 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:44.660 um 00:48:47.060 --> 00:48:50.720 what is it like 00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:56.599 to enter into the arousal 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:02.339 in a way that aware 00:49:02.339 --> 00:49:06.060 oh I love I love what um Marie had said 00:49:06.060 --> 00:49:08.940 she got from one of the last of the last 00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:14.420 series of when we're aware of awareness 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.160 where does that awareness be aware of 00:49:17.160 --> 00:49:19.140 awareness live 00:49:19.140 --> 00:49:21.480 and I wasn't there but I got the answer 00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:25.079 from Marie the body and I'm like oh yeah 00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.740 so but anyways so 00:49:28.740 --> 00:49:32.760 if I can be aware of 00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:36.380 my justification system 00:49:38.819 --> 00:49:43.380 and the arousal as it is captivated 00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:46.740 by the justification system 00:49:46.740 --> 00:49:50.460 and if I can in that new level of 00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:53.000 awareness 00:49:55.020 --> 00:49:56.819 Maybe 00:49:56.819 --> 00:50:01.880 let the arousal go 00:50:02.220 --> 00:50:04.500 let the arousal 00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:08.280 become unshaped 00:50:16.140 --> 00:50:18.599 and maybe in that maybe the 00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:21.859 justification system 00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:24.720 can 00:50:24.720 --> 00:50:28.460 dismantle a little bit 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:33.980 and then 00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:36.180 what is 00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:42.319 what what how is the arousal alive 00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:58.619 I don't know if I can 00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:01.640 bring it here 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:12.140 but 00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:16.460 it feels like the arousal 00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:20.599 is Grace 00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:24.619 and that 00:51:28.319 --> 00:51:30.300 if I can 00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:31.619 um 00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:34.280 soften 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.520 and something 00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:46.619 and let the arousal 00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:49.579 foreign 00:52:02.640 --> 00:52:06.680 and also move through 00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:34.680 unloading 00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:36.780 I'm noticing myself feeling 00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:39.780 self-conscious 00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:44.000 and um 00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:50.760 I want to speak to the intimate 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.760 relationality 00:52:54.359 --> 00:52:57.380 of arousal 00:53:14.520 --> 00:53:17.640 and so maybe what 00:53:17.640 --> 00:53:21.480 maybe it's hard here to take this 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.160 further 00:53:23.160 --> 00:53:25.160 um 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.119 because of that because there's 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:33.720 the need in order for that arousal 00:53:33.720 --> 00:53:36.079 to 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.480 flow 00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:50.280 there needs to be a 00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:51.960 um 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:56.940 a way in which we're like Grace said 00:53:56.940 --> 00:54:00.480 available to the love 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:03.020 together 00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:36.079 and I think also there's an element of 00:54:37.940 --> 00:54:43.339 arousal that yearns for touch 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:47.460 that yearns to come close 00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:50.760 my arousal yearns 00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:53.220 to 00:54:53.220 --> 00:54:59.599 to be an Embrace or in them together 00:55:04.940 --> 00:55:09.619 like and and sweet 00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:13.520 um 00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:16.859 communion 00:55:16.859 --> 00:55:20.000 or a sweet 00:55:20.700 --> 00:55:22.760 um 00:55:24.319 --> 00:55:26.640 sharing or or 00:55:26.640 --> 00:55:29.819 touching with you 00:55:29.819 --> 00:55:33.300 and with aliveness as it is 00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:36.200 as it is 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:37.980 um 00:55:37.980 --> 00:55:40.640 forming itself in you 00:55:40.640 --> 00:55:43.719 [Music] 00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:50.819 so there's a a way in which 00:55:50.819 --> 00:55:52.500 when we 00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:56.359 are coming close to each other 00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:00.559 um 00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:03.720 I have an opportunity 00:56:03.720 --> 00:56:08.420 not maybe to have my arousal 00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:13.380 defined by my justification system 00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:16.260 and go jerk off someplace 00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:18.720 you know or be in or be in my own jerk 00:56:18.720 --> 00:56:23.720 off so to speak but to have my arousal 00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.920 be um 00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:34.339 sweetened 00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:41.119 by coming close to Europe 00:56:41.940 --> 00:56:44.520 sweetened and 00:56:44.520 --> 00:56:46.640 um 00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:50.839 and also 00:56:50.839 --> 00:56:53.940 invited or welcomed 00:56:53.940 --> 00:56:55.500 into a 00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:57.420 into 00:56:57.420 --> 00:56:59.160 more 00:56:59.160 --> 00:57:00.839 in me 00:57:00.839 --> 00:57:04.140 because of you being there 00:57:04.140 --> 00:57:06.359 being you 00:57:06.359 --> 00:57:08.760 so this 00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:11.460 beautiful mutuality 00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:14.460 that 00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:26.520 in which I get to love more than I ever 00:57:26.520 --> 00:57:29.359 loved before 00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:34.940 I think that's good foreign 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:12.500 Bonita could you 01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:18.000 um people to the extemporaneous 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:27.780 um yeah so if you know when I think it 01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:30.359 was eyeball he had this great 01:00:30.359 --> 01:00:33.079 personal 01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:37.500 uh definition of extemporaneous 01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:40.920 um that um 01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:44.280 maybe he can share which which I really 01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:48.059 like his interpretation of it but for me 01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:52.200 uh for him it was like extemporaneous 01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:54.540 kind of like outside of time or 01:00:54.540 --> 01:00:56.640 something for me it was just that word 01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:59.099 you know when they say oh he got up and 01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:01.740 he did the whole speech extemporaneously 01:01:01.740 --> 01:01:03.839 it just means he didn't have a script he 01:01:03.839 --> 01:01:06.299 didn't have even a mental script in his 01:01:06.299 --> 01:01:10.319 head he didn't have it written down 01:01:10.319 --> 01:01:12.180 um and 01:01:12.180 --> 01:01:18.240 um and that is kind of like dancing you 01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:22.020 know speaking without your your entirely 01:01:22.020 --> 01:01:24.599 free of your mind is a little bit like 01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:25.740 that 01:01:25.740 --> 01:01:28.339 um but it's at the end of my chapter on 01:01:28.339 --> 01:01:30.960 dispatches from A Time In Between Worlds 01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:34.700 because we're forced to speak 01:01:34.700 --> 01:01:36.839 extemporaneously because we can't use 01:01:36.839 --> 01:01:40.319 the old systems we don't know the so we 01:01:40.319 --> 01:01:43.020 have to make it up as we go along 01:01:43.020 --> 01:01:45.000 um so this is who we are the people 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.920 assembled at the end of the the old 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:50.640 world is we're extemporary aliens you 01:01:50.640 --> 01:01:52.440 know so 01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.440 um 01:01:54.839 --> 01:01:57.599 so that's kind of kind of what I I meant 01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.480 you know I wrote that in the in the 01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:02.160 chapter meta modern chapter that came 01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:04.200 out last year the year before 01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:06.599 but it was from an article I wrote in I 01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:11.160 think 2010 uh called uh Doom to Parish 01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:15.420 destined to rise again uh 01:02:15.420 --> 01:02:17.520 if you if you Google that you can see 01:02:17.520 --> 01:02:20.040 the little article that's stored on the 01:02:20.040 --> 01:02:22.140 internet somewhere 01:02:22.140 --> 01:02:23.819 um and at the end I said who are we 01:02:23.819 --> 01:02:25.680 these people assembled at the end of the 01:02:25.680 --> 01:02:28.500 world we are at the extemporary in 01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:30.660 Aliens so 01:02:30.660 --> 01:02:33.680 I've had that that that 01:02:33.680 --> 01:02:38.339 image or that phrase 01:02:38.339 --> 01:02:42.740 that Mantra since for quite a while 01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:46.799 thank you I am 01:02:46.799 --> 01:02:49.520 all right 01:02:49.619 --> 01:02:52.680 I want to add some things 01:02:52.680 --> 01:02:54.720 perhaps a little dark 01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:59.460 but I think Evo will remember there was 01:02:59.460 --> 01:03:00.420 a share 01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.700 in one of the 01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:05.099 calls with 01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:08.520 um Ukraine that has 01:03:08.520 --> 01:03:11.520 really been with me sitting on my 01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:14.760 shoulder very different Grace 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:16.079 um 01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:19.380 since where this woman I don't remember 01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:21.480 her name 01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:24.540 but she started out by saying you know 01:03:24.540 --> 01:03:26.520 what I'm gonna say could be 01:03:26.520 --> 01:03:30.540 misunderstood but I just I'm I'm just 01:03:30.540 --> 01:03:32.640 gonna risk it I'm just gonna say it 01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:35.280 because I have to and she said 01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:37.440 before the invasion 01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:42.440 we were all to each other 01:03:45.299 --> 01:03:47.520 and 01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:49.559 you know it's not like she went into 01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:51.720 details 01:03:51.720 --> 01:03:54.839 but I think everybody understood what 01:03:54.839 --> 01:03:56.819 she was talking about 01:03:56.819 --> 01:04:01.260 and um and then she said but since I've 01:04:01.260 --> 01:04:02.640 seen 01:04:02.640 --> 01:04:06.440 a level of cooperation that I 01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:10.579 didn't even know existed 01:04:11.640 --> 01:04:16.020 and skipping to the end she said in 01:04:16.020 --> 01:04:18.559 these words 01:04:18.839 --> 01:04:22.200 I'm not advocating for an invasion I'm 01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:26.579 saying do whatever the you have to 01:04:26.579 --> 01:04:27.660 do 01:04:27.660 --> 01:04:29.400 to access 01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:33.299 that level of cooperation 01:04:33.299 --> 01:04:35.220 that I can tell you 01:04:35.220 --> 01:04:37.079 is 01:04:37.079 --> 01:04:40.099 is with us 01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:41.880 and 01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:46.980 to me this work and and other work I 01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:49.200 feel I've been trying to do as an 01:04:49.200 --> 01:04:51.900 extemporane in 01:04:51.900 --> 01:04:53.640 it I feel like 01:04:53.640 --> 01:04:57.359 you know just trying to dig gracefully 01:04:57.359 --> 01:05:00.299 um has so much to do with that 01:05:00.299 --> 01:05:03.960 um without obviously falling in to the 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:05.640 pitfalls and 01:05:05.640 --> 01:05:09.780 malware of you know monocultures and 01:05:09.780 --> 01:05:13.619 isms and ideology and all that and I 01:05:13.619 --> 01:05:17.339 think this mind back and body body back 01:05:17.339 --> 01:05:18.839 in nature 01:05:18.839 --> 01:05:22.799 old tremendous Force 01:05:22.799 --> 01:05:26.780 in having us 01:05:27.200 --> 01:05:30.960 perhaps get a glimpse of what it would 01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:33.440 be like 01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:38.359 to access that level of cooperation 01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:53.000 I wonder if Evo could 01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:00.660 you imagine yeah I missed the letter 01:06:00.660 --> 01:06:03.720 part of your question like somehow 01:06:03.720 --> 01:06:07.040 um you muted yourself 01:06:10.619 --> 01:06:13.619 no I mean I just know you followed this 01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:16.140 very very closely and very intimately 01:06:16.140 --> 01:06:19.099 and 01:06:19.319 --> 01:06:21.380 um 01:06:22.640 --> 01:06:26.880 how maybe between your 01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:31.880 these two spaces you could perhaps 01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:33.180 um 01:06:33.180 --> 01:06:36.380 offer something 01:06:46.520 --> 01:06:49.380 yeah thanks uh let's see what bubbles up 01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:51.180 well first of all it's good to be kind 01:06:51.180 --> 01:06:53.400 of back here it's been a while uh I 01:06:53.400 --> 01:06:55.740 haven't had a lot of chance to join and 01:06:55.740 --> 01:06:57.480 um 01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:59.220 you know it's it feels good to just 01:06:59.220 --> 01:07:01.740 admit immediately 01:07:01.740 --> 01:07:02.640 um 01:07:02.640 --> 01:07:05.819 tap into the field like it is some kind 01:07:05.819 --> 01:07:07.319 of like sense that we don't really 01:07:07.319 --> 01:07:09.780 acknowledge much I think 01:07:09.780 --> 01:07:12.480 um to be able to kind of jump in and out 01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:13.680 of spaces 01:07:13.680 --> 01:07:16.440 and immediately feel a sense of home or 01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.260 or or belonging but even more than that 01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:20.880 like 01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:24.180 like a certain 01:07:24.180 --> 01:07:25.440 um 01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:28.020 direction of travel so that's that's 01:07:28.020 --> 01:07:29.640 really 01:07:29.640 --> 01:07:30.960 um 01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.900 yeah beautiful to to to see and thanks 01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:35.880 thanks Bonnie for 01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:37.740 holding that 01:07:37.740 --> 01:07:38.880 um 01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:40.500 and it was through her that I learned 01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:45.359 this term extemporaneous and uh so often 01:07:45.359 --> 01:07:47.960 I completely 01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:50.819 misinterpreted but rightly appropriated 01:07:50.819 --> 01:07:52.020 it 01:07:52.020 --> 01:07:55.260 um you know so like properly in the in 01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:57.599 in the vein of like speculative uh 01:07:57.599 --> 01:07:59.280 realism Maybe 01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:01.680 but 01:08:01.680 --> 01:08:05.520 um um yeah I think about time a lot and 01:08:05.520 --> 01:08:07.680 usually it's like you know one moment to 01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:10.200 the next and it follows it's sequential 01:08:10.200 --> 01:08:11.700 and uh 01:08:11.700 --> 01:08:13.740 I interpreted extemporaneous as 01:08:13.740 --> 01:08:16.400 something like 01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:19.739 taking yourself outside of the time 01:08:19.739 --> 01:08:23.480 stream and um 01:08:23.819 --> 01:08:26.400 and and coming to insights knowledge 01:08:26.400 --> 01:08:30.420 almost in a manner of mining 01:08:30.420 --> 01:08:34.020 um and then resurfacing at sometimes 01:08:34.020 --> 01:08:36.660 resurfacing to to have a look maybe in 01:08:36.660 --> 01:08:38.219 the future 01:08:38.219 --> 01:08:39.540 um 01:08:39.540 --> 01:08:41.940 take things from the past with you and 01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:44.819 place them ahead 01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:48.060 um it was inspired by what the Tibetan 01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:50.160 sometimes called turmer teachings you 01:08:50.160 --> 01:08:51.660 know they have teachings that are not 01:08:51.660 --> 01:08:54.299 produced just to meet the needs of the 01:08:54.299 --> 01:08:56.520 present moment and meet the needs uh 01:08:56.520 --> 01:08:58.859 meet the need of uh you know students in 01:08:58.859 --> 01:09:01.620 in the present moment but they're kind 01:09:01.620 --> 01:09:06.299 of put out there for future humans to 01:09:06.299 --> 01:09:09.839 find so they are tuned and appropriate 01:09:09.839 --> 01:09:12.900 for the Times ahead and 01:09:12.900 --> 01:09:15.239 um you know this school here while we 01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:17.580 are here I often sense it like that is 01:09:17.580 --> 01:09:18.660 what we're doing 01:09:18.660 --> 01:09:21.779 it's uh it's it's ahead of its time in 01:09:21.779 --> 01:09:24.120 many ways right like 01:09:24.120 --> 01:09:26.960 and then 01:09:28.020 --> 01:09:30.600 yeah so it's it's leaving like uh the 01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:32.460 breadcrumbs behind 01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:34.560 um let's say so for others to find so 01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:36.540 they can find their ways and so that's 01:09:36.540 --> 01:09:38.880 how I interpreted extemporaneous and 01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:41.040 it's not just like a term or 01:09:41.040 --> 01:09:42.719 characterization but actually an actual 01:09:42.719 --> 01:09:43.679 skill 01:09:43.679 --> 01:09:45.660 to 01:09:45.660 --> 01:09:48.839 maybe be you know the embodiment of a 01:09:48.839 --> 01:09:50.819 wormhole sometimes and just create these 01:09:50.819 --> 01:09:52.080 Loops maybe you've seen these images 01:09:52.080 --> 01:09:54.719 where you were spaced on curves right 01:09:54.719 --> 01:09:56.460 and there's like a shortcut and you can 01:09:56.460 --> 01:09:58.980 just jump to another part of it go 01:09:58.980 --> 01:10:01.260 through the go through the donut hole 01:10:01.260 --> 01:10:02.460 let's say 01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:06.360 so that's how I I interpret 01:10:06.360 --> 01:10:11.580 um yeah extemporaneity it's a 01:10:11.580 --> 01:10:15.719 being being fluid in that and um 01:10:15.719 --> 01:10:17.580 and I mean I don't wanna 01:10:17.580 --> 01:10:20.460 I mean since we're speaking of malware I 01:10:20.460 --> 01:10:22.620 don't want to characterize like the 01:10:22.620 --> 01:10:25.320 linear uh experience that we have of 01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:27.120 time that we live past present future 01:10:27.120 --> 01:10:29.400 and the now seems to move along right 01:10:29.400 --> 01:10:32.760 and we have memories and and the past is 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:34.560 like what what what has crystallized 01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:37.860 into uh the real let's say and the 01:10:37.860 --> 01:10:40.500 future hasn't happened yet and uh 01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:43.199 but the 01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.320 um 01:10:45.739 --> 01:10:49.140 but yeah what is considered 01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:51.320 you know right action Right View 01:10:51.320 --> 01:10:53.460 everything right for the Buddha 01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:55.800 characterizes right there's many of them 01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:59.219 you know of today is the malware of the 01:10:59.219 --> 01:11:02.040 future in some sense right so 01:11:02.040 --> 01:11:03.719 I think it's always good to keep that in 01:11:03.719 --> 01:11:04.860 mind 01:11:04.860 --> 01:11:06.980 um 01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:12.020 and yeah so 01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:18.120 yeah I think I'll just leave it at that 01:11:18.120 --> 01:11:20.520 I've I've much more more words are 01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:23.760 coming like in this uh 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:25.800 it's it's a it's it's a really rich 01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.580 inquiry I think to just kind of tweet 01:11:29.580 --> 01:11:32.570 tweak with the experience of time and 01:11:32.570 --> 01:11:32.940 [Music] 01:11:32.940 --> 01:11:34.940 um 01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:39.860 to reappreciate the present moment 01:11:40.500 --> 01:11:42.239 in that way 01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:44.580 and also just explore the the 01:11:44.580 --> 01:11:48.960 possibilities that that are ahead and um 01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:51.239 yeah I also just want to make like a 01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:53.580 real 01:11:53.580 --> 01:11:55.739 appreciation of the malware let's say 01:11:55.739 --> 01:11:58.140 you know what's used as well I keep I 01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:00.600 still keep my old blackberry and I keep 01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:03.780 my old iPhone 5 and I'm I've got an 01:12:03.780 --> 01:12:06.540 iPhone 10 right now and uh you know it's 01:12:06.540 --> 01:12:09.420 it's I'm ready to retire it but they 01:12:09.420 --> 01:12:11.520 also tell a story there they give like a 01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:13.560 sense of direction the the the lift 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:16.040 breadcrumbs let's say and 01:12:16.040 --> 01:12:18.360 who knows where we're going you know the 01:12:18.360 --> 01:12:21.780 breadcrumbs are now made by AI the 01:12:21.780 --> 01:12:25.140 or engaging with them we eat them and uh 01:12:25.140 --> 01:12:27.540 so yeah I'm just kind of wondering like 01:12:27.540 --> 01:12:29.280 what some sort of 01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:32.219 Trail is being spun out but I do think 01:12:32.219 --> 01:12:34.500 that as humans we have like a specific 01:12:34.500 --> 01:12:36.480 kind of responsibility to become these 01:12:36.480 --> 01:12:38.640 extemporarians and to 01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:40.920 you know learn how to put the Periscope 01:12:40.920 --> 01:12:42.480 up in different 01:12:42.480 --> 01:12:45.239 you know uh points in the space-time 01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:46.679 metric and Beyond actually because 01:12:46.679 --> 01:12:48.600 that's that's what it's really about and 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.780 to to Source pieces of uh understanding 01:12:51.780 --> 01:12:54.540 and knowledge and uh and have a duty to 01:12:54.540 --> 01:12:56.340 communicate like as happens in schools 01:12:56.340 --> 01:12:58.980 right like this school so 01:12:58.980 --> 01:13:02.219 so yeah uh thanks thanks for sharing and 01:13:02.219 --> 01:13:04.739 sorry to not have been a real part of of 01:13:04.739 --> 01:13:08.820 this for the journey but uh just just uh 01:13:08.820 --> 01:13:10.800 like right now I'm an extemporanean not 01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:12.900 having been here and now I am here so 01:13:12.900 --> 01:13:15.960 it's it's that so you know pop them up 01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:18.420 in spaces like this is being just that 01:13:18.420 --> 01:13:20.040 I'm practicing just that and getting a 01:13:20.040 --> 01:13:21.840 quick felt sense of it so it's it's 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:24.300 practicing a certain kind of 01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:26.699 sense that we don't usually acknowledge 01:13:26.699 --> 01:13:30.800 as a sense it's um 01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:33.719 yeah it's really it's really really cool 01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:35.000 so 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:39.620 thanks for uh inviting me to speak 01:13:43.980 --> 01:13:46.640 no one 01:16:04.140 --> 01:16:08.179 we've all become little rays 01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:23.340 so just a couple of notes that you know 01:16:23.340 --> 01:16:24.540 I took 01:16:24.540 --> 01:16:25.920 um 01:16:25.920 --> 01:16:28.699 what they mean when Phoebe was being 01:16:28.699 --> 01:16:31.320 extemporaneous there 01:16:31.320 --> 01:16:33.380 um 01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:36.360 it was kind of like she was asking the 01:16:36.360 --> 01:16:38.340 question and answering at the same time 01:16:38.340 --> 01:16:41.219 in a beautiful way and that is 01:16:41.219 --> 01:16:43.140 what happens when 01:16:43.140 --> 01:16:46.380 my naive arousal bumps into the 01:16:46.380 --> 01:16:50.340 justification system right I mean like 01:16:50.340 --> 01:16:51.840 um 01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:53.760 of course this is the question every 01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:56.400 teenager has to answer when they just 01:16:56.400 --> 01:16:57.780 wanna 01:16:57.780 --> 01:17:00.960 everything and drive their 01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:02.580 motorcycle down the road and then they 01:17:02.580 --> 01:17:04.380 notice that there's this justification 01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:08.219 system that is in place or 01:17:08.219 --> 01:17:08.940 um 01:17:08.940 --> 01:17:11.880 and uh so that's an interesting question 01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:14.760 because what what she was answering also 01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:16.500 it's not that 01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:19.760 we're just saying 01:17:22.440 --> 01:17:26.120 that that's not a real 01:17:27.659 --> 01:17:29.460 event 01:17:29.460 --> 01:17:32.120 but 01:17:32.340 --> 01:17:34.340 um 01:17:34.940 --> 01:17:37.920 but then I I think that 01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:39.900 um 01:17:39.900 --> 01:17:41.820 uh 01:17:41.820 --> 01:17:45.060 it's this notion of you know the 01:17:45.060 --> 01:17:47.460 difference between flux and flow right 01:17:47.460 --> 01:17:50.400 and that's kind of like uh when we first 01:17:50.400 --> 01:17:52.260 start with a dispositional state we're 01:17:52.260 --> 01:17:53.820 trying we're trying to have a 01:17:53.820 --> 01:17:56.460 dispositional state that allows the 01:17:56.460 --> 01:17:58.860 Iran's and states to come and go and 01:17:58.860 --> 01:18:04.920 shift and flux and so you could be like 01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:07.860 have all this energy and then it's like 01:18:07.860 --> 01:18:09.840 not socially acceptable or something now 01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:11.820 you've bumped into this thing if you're 01:18:11.820 --> 01:18:14.460 not aware of the justification systems 01:18:14.460 --> 01:18:16.500 in the social norms something else will 01:18:16.500 --> 01:18:18.900 happen right but as soon as you're aware 01:18:18.900 --> 01:18:20.940 of it and then you're and then you're 01:18:20.940 --> 01:18:23.580 like now your arousal energy has to flux 01:18:23.580 --> 01:18:25.739 and now what is it oh 01:18:25.739 --> 01:18:28.620 this is interesting and when she was 01:18:28.620 --> 01:18:30.659 describing 01:18:30.659 --> 01:18:32.820 being aware of the justification system 01:18:32.820 --> 01:18:34.980 and the arousal energy at the same time 01:18:34.980 --> 01:18:37.320 well that's what we call reflexive 01:18:37.320 --> 01:18:39.800 awareness right because you're not just 01:18:39.800 --> 01:18:44.219 aware of your arousal and then let it do 01:18:44.219 --> 01:18:47.000 you know so it's this 01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:50.880 comprehensive being with what is 01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:54.679 um and then noticing 01:18:55.380 --> 01:18:58.199 is the justification system living in my 01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:01.620 head or is there someone standing across 01:19:01.620 --> 01:19:04.260 from me that 01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:07.040 um you know 01:19:07.860 --> 01:19:10.140 is being aroused being angry because 01:19:10.140 --> 01:19:12.179 they're they're inside a justification 01:19:12.179 --> 01:19:14.520 system that I'm not inside of but all 01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:15.600 these things 01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:18.540 are part of real human experience so yes 01:19:18.540 --> 01:19:21.620 we're not saying 01:19:23.100 --> 01:19:27.440 we should be untrained pets 01:19:27.900 --> 01:19:29.219 um 01:19:29.219 --> 01:19:32.880 but notice that 01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:35.040 when I bump up into the justification 01:19:35.040 --> 01:19:38.400 system the arousal energy changes 01:19:38.400 --> 01:19:40.920 what's my dispositional state with that 01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:43.679 so that's interesting why is it like 01:19:43.679 --> 01:19:45.960 that 01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:48.840 um what's more useful here 01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:51.600 what's the message in it 01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:53.719 um 01:20:00.120 --> 01:20:02.520 can I shift it can it be distorted can 01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.679 it be dissolved or do I have to or do I 01:20:04.679 --> 01:20:06.719 need to do something with my body that's 01:20:06.719 --> 01:20:09.780 not distorting things or in that 01:20:09.780 --> 01:20:12.560 direction so 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:16.580 these are all interesting questions 01:20:25.260 --> 01:20:27.600 take yeah just take different modules 01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.600 and say how do they relate go ahead yep 01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:33.980 um she raised her finger 01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:38.219 okay so uh David and I were 01:20:38.219 --> 01:20:40.739 watching a uh 01:20:40.739 --> 01:20:42.659 an interview last night and the 01:20:42.659 --> 01:20:44.699 interviewer 01:20:44.699 --> 01:20:47.120 spoke for half of the time but no the 01:20:47.120 --> 01:20:49.500 introducer and the questioner of the 01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:50.460 interview 01:20:50.460 --> 01:20:54.360 spoke for half the time and and then the 01:20:54.360 --> 01:20:57.300 second half the person being interviewed 01:20:57.300 --> 01:20:58.500 spoke 01:20:58.500 --> 01:21:01.920 and in his speech 01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:04.679 some intense this was a rabbi and some 01:21:04.679 --> 01:21:06.420 intense Venom 01:21:06.420 --> 01:21:09.260 came someone from the audience just 01:21:09.260 --> 01:21:12.440 yelled that's not true in this intense 01:21:12.440 --> 01:21:15.960 Venom came into the space 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:17.340 and 01:21:17.340 --> 01:21:19.380 um and he as 01:21:19.380 --> 01:21:22.920 as a the convener and as the Director of 01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:23.820 the space 01:21:23.820 --> 01:21:26.760 basically said be quiet and I need to 01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:28.140 say what I'm going to say and we've got 01:21:28.140 --> 01:21:30.239 an agenda and let's keep going and then 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:33.719 later on somebody came in with this 01:21:33.719 --> 01:21:37.980 intense uh Beauty who was so grateful to 01:21:37.980 --> 01:21:40.260 the speaker and just I have to tell you 01:21:40.260 --> 01:21:43.380 I'm so thank you so much and it was it 01:21:43.380 --> 01:21:44.880 was an equal 01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:47.880 um sort of invasion of the space 01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:51.840 and so what what I was thinking and both 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:53.340 times he said you know he said to the 01:21:53.340 --> 01:21:55.560 second guy listen if you if you shut up 01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:57.780 I'll give you the first opportunity to 01:21:57.780 --> 01:21:59.880 ask a question afterwards but right now 01:21:59.880 --> 01:22:01.320 be quiet 01:22:01.320 --> 01:22:04.320 and I thought well 01:22:04.320 --> 01:22:07.440 here's this space and this person had 01:22:07.440 --> 01:22:09.179 spoken with tremendous passion and 01:22:09.179 --> 01:22:12.000 energy and it had kind of evoked these 01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.460 intense responses which are it was a 01:22:14.460 --> 01:22:16.620 cultural issue and those responses were 01:22:16.620 --> 01:22:19.020 in the culture right now this polarity 01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:20.520 stuff 01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:23.400 and I was wondering what if he could 01:22:23.400 --> 01:22:24.540 have 01:22:24.540 --> 01:22:27.000 so those are both arousal things 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:28.560 that have 01:22:28.560 --> 01:22:32.040 you know been aroused by the context and 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.080 are 01:22:33.080 --> 01:22:36.960 invading the space as they are and what 01:22:36.960 --> 01:22:38.580 would it be like and this is in response 01:22:38.580 --> 01:22:40.920 to what you'd said Bonnie about I can't 01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:42.360 remember exactly how you said it but 01:22:42.360 --> 01:22:43.440 like 01:22:43.440 --> 01:22:44.280 um 01:22:44.280 --> 01:22:46.199 what do we do 01:22:46.199 --> 01:22:49.320 and and is there a way of 01:22:49.320 --> 01:22:52.500 noticing our arousal and dancing with it 01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:54.300 differently and I was wondering what 01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:57.239 would it be like as the convener of the 01:22:57.239 --> 01:22:59.400 space 01:22:59.400 --> 01:23:03.000 if um this Rabbi when the first negative 01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:05.520 thinking crashing in like 01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:11.120 had just said whoa whoa that was intense 01:23:11.120 --> 01:23:14.159 whoa and then just just asked everybody 01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:16.980 let's thank you thank you for bringing 01:23:16.980 --> 01:23:20.820 that in and let's all be with this 01:23:20.820 --> 01:23:23.100 energy that came in that's part of our 01:23:23.100 --> 01:23:27.800 culture right now and um 01:23:27.960 --> 01:23:31.400 and so my question is 01:23:31.860 --> 01:23:33.719 could we 01:23:33.719 --> 01:23:36.980 as a collective 01:23:37.500 --> 01:23:40.460 uh 01:23:41.219 --> 01:23:44.159 hold the arousal in its in a way 01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:46.320 inappropriateness or its limited-ness 01:23:46.320 --> 01:23:50.159 its reactivity whatever it is 01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:54.719 and and hold a space that um 01:23:54.719 --> 01:23:57.540 allows it to 01:23:57.540 --> 01:23:59.640 be as it is 01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:01.679 exactly as it is 01:24:01.679 --> 01:24:03.840 and then 01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:05.900 um 01:24:06.300 --> 01:24:08.580 to flux 01:24:08.580 --> 01:24:11.640 to go from flow to flux 01:24:11.640 --> 01:24:15.440 because of a welcoming 01:24:16.620 --> 01:24:20.040 so of both energies and and could what 01:24:20.040 --> 01:24:23.219 would happen in that group 01:24:23.219 --> 01:24:26.340 if it could have 01:24:26.340 --> 01:24:28.860 um held and not just stayed in the 01:24:28.860 --> 01:24:31.080 intention of the interviewer to hold 01:24:31.080 --> 01:24:32.940 this interview and hold this content 01:24:32.940 --> 01:24:34.679 that's pre predetermined and this is 01:24:34.679 --> 01:24:38.640 what we want to talk about but to to you 01:24:38.640 --> 01:24:40.739 know if he could have held a space for 01:24:40.739 --> 01:24:42.239 well this may be what I want to talk 01:24:42.239 --> 01:24:44.640 about but holy moly there's a lot here 01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:48.120 that wants to be included you know so 01:24:48.120 --> 01:24:50.179 um 01:24:52.560 --> 01:24:55.140 and could we together 01:24:55.140 --> 01:24:59.100 invite arousal 01:24:59.699 --> 01:25:01.679 to 01:25:01.679 --> 01:25:06.140 to dance in new ways together 01:25:40.980 --> 01:25:44.480 and I think what I would like to add is 01:25:44.480 --> 01:25:48.120 my arousal 01:25:48.120 --> 01:25:49.800 wants to play 01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:52.580 with that 01:25:53.100 --> 01:25:57.420 my arousal wants to 01:25:57.420 --> 01:25:59.600 um 01:26:02.460 --> 01:26:05.280 be personalized 01:26:05.280 --> 01:26:07.880 me 01:26:08.100 --> 01:26:11.000 in the moment 01:26:17.400 --> 01:26:20.699 so so that I can be accommodate and I 01:26:20.699 --> 01:26:22.560 can welcome 01:26:22.560 --> 01:26:26.060 without reactivity 01:26:26.100 --> 01:26:28.159 um 01:26:29.580 --> 01:26:33.120 but kind of in respect 01:26:33.120 --> 01:26:35.760 to 01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:38.400 the energy behind 01:26:38.400 --> 01:26:39.900 the anger 01:26:39.900 --> 01:26:42.420 or the energy behind the Gratitude 01:26:42.420 --> 01:26:45.360 that's that's coming through 01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:48.260 for all of us 01:27:06.920 --> 01:27:11.239 today's pick on Ray did 01:27:11.239 --> 01:27:13.800 so at that time when I was telling them 01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:16.860 you don't talk we were involved in those 01:27:16.860 --> 01:27:19.679 three years of experience in Collective 01:27:19.679 --> 01:27:21.780 Insight practice and that was what we 01:27:21.780 --> 01:27:22.920 did we 01:27:22.920 --> 01:27:24.900 really worked on 01:27:24.900 --> 01:27:27.900 allowing 01:27:31.860 --> 01:27:34.500 not to get hung up on what people were 01:27:34.500 --> 01:27:38.040 saying but to really be able to witness 01:27:38.040 --> 01:27:40.860 not witness that seems too detached but 01:27:40.860 --> 01:27:44.060 to experience 01:27:44.639 --> 01:27:48.360 uh the Wild and chaotic sometimes 01:27:48.360 --> 01:27:52.260 interplay of arousal Energies 01:27:52.260 --> 01:27:54.260 um 01:27:54.300 --> 01:27:57.860 but there's a certain 01:27:57.900 --> 01:28:03.320 what I learned is from that experiment 01:28:04.440 --> 01:28:06.560 um 01:28:07.080 --> 01:28:08.940 there's two sides of the coin one is 01:28:08.940 --> 01:28:12.840 doing what you said being able to like 01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:15.360 be completely 01:28:15.360 --> 01:28:19.280 yelled at and 01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:23.580 not having it phase you and over time 01:28:23.580 --> 01:28:26.520 teaching that Consciousness course was 01:28:26.520 --> 01:28:29.159 really good for that I'd be going along 01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:30.960 and all of a sudden someone would just 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:32.820 like 01:28:32.820 --> 01:28:35.219 whatever they were saying and I would 01:28:35.219 --> 01:28:37.380 just 01:28:37.380 --> 01:28:40.080 say things like wow where'd that come 01:28:40.080 --> 01:28:41.699 from do you feel better now and people 01:28:41.699 --> 01:28:43.679 would laugh yeah they did just noticing 01:28:43.679 --> 01:28:45.540 that there was something that triggered 01:28:45.540 --> 01:28:46.380 and 01:28:46.380 --> 01:28:49.800 and not to shame them or whatever like 01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:53.159 some and but that's easier because I 01:28:53.159 --> 01:28:55.020 there's asymmetric power in the 01:28:55.020 --> 01:28:56.040 classroom 01:28:56.040 --> 01:28:59.400 when you're in a peer-to-peer 01:28:59.400 --> 01:29:00.239 um 01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:02.040 it's harder 01:29:02.040 --> 01:29:04.440 and 01:29:04.440 --> 01:29:07.620 um so one is to allow 01:29:07.620 --> 01:29:10.620 something that in normal situations you 01:29:10.620 --> 01:29:12.900 would be defensive about 01:29:12.900 --> 01:29:14.699 uh 01:29:14.699 --> 01:29:18.060 to come at you let's say sometimes it's 01:29:18.060 --> 01:29:19.500 not even about you so you have to be 01:29:19.500 --> 01:29:22.860 careful not to suck 01:29:22.860 --> 01:29:27.420 the the Venom into your own uh uh 01:29:27.420 --> 01:29:30.300 suspicious part you know so sometimes 01:29:30.300 --> 01:29:32.219 it's very clearly someone's shouting at 01:29:32.219 --> 01:29:35.460 you and they mean you so uh that's one 01:29:35.460 --> 01:29:39.719 thing but another thing is at us another 01:29:39.719 --> 01:29:42.239 level so that's the first step but at 01:29:42.239 --> 01:29:45.179 another level is 01:29:45.179 --> 01:29:47.760 and if you talk to re about this is 01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:50.820 something she knows about me is 01:29:50.820 --> 01:29:52.679 so you're doing Collective presencing 01:29:52.679 --> 01:29:55.620 and you check once you check twice 01:29:55.620 --> 01:29:58.860 you notice that there's a lot of arousal 01:29:58.860 --> 01:30:01.500 energy but people are doing Collective 01:30:01.500 --> 01:30:03.480 presencing so they're sitting there 01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:05.179 being nice 01:30:05.179 --> 01:30:09.719 so and for me it's like so I feel the 01:30:09.719 --> 01:30:11.699 arousal energy too I'm just gonna let it 01:30:11.699 --> 01:30:14.159 say and for me it's kind of 01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:17.219 embarrassing because she's teaching how 01:30:17.219 --> 01:30:19.199 to be like balanced and this and that 01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:20.940 and I'm the teacher of the class when 01:30:20.940 --> 01:30:23.699 she used to come through and and and 01:30:23.699 --> 01:30:25.500 from a certain perspective this is like 01:30:25.500 --> 01:30:27.000 well body doesn't know how to do 01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:28.920 Collective presence in because she 01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:30.600 didn't pick up the stick she didn't take 01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:32.770 her turn she just went wow 01:30:32.770 --> 01:30:34.580 [Music] 01:30:34.580 --> 01:30:37.739 but usually what happens in those 01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:40.320 situations is then the two people that 01:30:40.320 --> 01:30:42.719 are mad they start yelling at me and 01:30:42.719 --> 01:30:45.780 then someone in someone then connects 01:30:45.780 --> 01:30:48.840 with them and the energy is dissolved so 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:51.900 you become the fuse in the grounding of 01:30:51.900 --> 01:30:54.659 what is happening there and it's not 01:30:54.659 --> 01:30:57.000 inauthentic because you are also 01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:01.020 triggered too so but here's the thing 01:31:01.020 --> 01:31:02.820 having said that 01:31:02.820 --> 01:31:05.639 this work will kill you because you have 01:31:05.639 --> 01:31:09.000 to have extremely high capacity the 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:11.100 whole group has to have extremely high 01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:13.260 capacity 01:31:13.260 --> 01:31:15.840 so 01:31:15.840 --> 01:31:17.820 of course this is what the kids are 01:31:17.820 --> 01:31:20.159 trying to work out by doing all these 01:31:20.159 --> 01:31:22.199 circling things over and over and over 01:31:22.199 --> 01:31:23.880 again but 01:31:23.880 --> 01:31:27.540 um but one of the things is is you know 01:31:27.540 --> 01:31:29.340 from my perspective the way I like to 01:31:29.340 --> 01:31:31.800 design it it's not rigorous enough it's 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:34.199 not precise enough the way that it needs 01:31:34.199 --> 01:31:36.840 something like this school because 01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:38.880 it's really 01:31:38.880 --> 01:31:41.880 um so there's a term in 01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:43.860 when you train horses especially 01:31:43.860 --> 01:31:46.139 stallion is this term you can get over 01:31:46.139 --> 01:31:49.380 faced the stat you just don't have the 01:31:49.380 --> 01:31:51.420 capacity to work with the energy that 01:31:51.420 --> 01:31:52.980 the stallion has 01:31:52.980 --> 01:31:55.500 and what you usually do then is resort 01:31:55.500 --> 01:31:58.320 to Technologies like bigger bits or more 01:31:58.320 --> 01:32:01.800 whips or something like that 01:32:01.800 --> 01:32:04.739 um and so 01:32:04.739 --> 01:32:07.620 um most people are over faced in these 01:32:07.620 --> 01:32:10.560 situations and we don't know how yeah I 01:32:10.560 --> 01:32:13.159 have not met anyone who's good at this 01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:16.460 it always looks 01:32:16.460 --> 01:32:19.320 dis deviant 01:32:19.320 --> 01:32:21.179 um and then you can come back the next 01:32:21.179 --> 01:32:24.360 day you can like compare notes 01:32:24.360 --> 01:32:29.219 um and I you know I I had and so we have 01:32:29.219 --> 01:32:32.699 to be careful because if we uh if we are 01:32:32.699 --> 01:32:35.940 ideological about doing this 01:32:35.940 --> 01:32:37.940 um you're going to get a reality check 01:32:37.940 --> 01:32:41.699 really fast because we as human beings 01:32:41.699 --> 01:32:43.560 are not capable 01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:46.080 of doing this certainly not in large 01:32:46.080 --> 01:32:48.360 scale or on mass 01:32:48.360 --> 01:32:52.380 um and what we're just starting to do is 01:32:52.380 --> 01:32:54.960 build a pedagogy or methodology I 01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:59.520 consider this my work so that we can 01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:02.340 um get from here to there and you notice 01:33:02.340 --> 01:33:03.840 how the pop-up school started people 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:05.520 don't even know what embodiment means 01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:06.360 they don't even know what they're 01:33:06.360 --> 01:33:09.060 talking about they'll say guys not in 01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:12.900 bodied in some woman who's a narrative 01:33:12.900 --> 01:33:14.940 fantasy about her own psychic projection 01:33:14.940 --> 01:33:17.699 is embodied and so you get people 01:33:17.699 --> 01:33:20.460 together and now this stuff is happening 01:33:20.460 --> 01:33:23.040 and they they're fighting about stuff 01:33:23.040 --> 01:33:25.620 that there's not enough Precision uh 01:33:25.620 --> 01:33:27.780 with so 01:33:27.780 --> 01:33:30.239 so yes I think 01:33:30.239 --> 01:33:31.560 um it's it's part of the human 01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:35.100 trajectory but I think that 01:33:35.100 --> 01:33:36.300 um 01:33:36.300 --> 01:33:39.420 it's a big ask out of the human system 01:33:39.420 --> 01:33:41.219 right now 01:33:41.219 --> 01:33:43.400 um 01:33:44.340 --> 01:33:46.260 then when you think of the arousal 01:33:46.260 --> 01:33:48.420 energy at the collective level like why 01:33:48.420 --> 01:33:52.679 is Russia and Ukraine at War you just if 01:33:52.679 --> 01:33:54.480 you you sit in with five people you 01:33:54.480 --> 01:33:56.580 can't deal with the arousal energy of 01:33:56.580 --> 01:33:59.340 strangers that never even punched each 01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:00.719 other 01:34:00.719 --> 01:34:02.699 and then you've got 01:34:02.699 --> 01:34:05.760 years and years of history and ideology 01:34:05.760 --> 01:34:08.880 across the boundary uh and you wonder 01:34:08.880 --> 01:34:12.300 why people go to war it seems quite 01:34:12.300 --> 01:34:14.520 obvious if people can't do what you're 01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:16.080 saying 01:34:16.080 --> 01:34:19.560 um but it seems quite obvious to me that 01:34:19.560 --> 01:34:22.699 we're far far far away from the 01:34:22.699 --> 01:34:24.900 ideologies that some 01:34:24.900 --> 01:34:26.820 some of these 01:34:26.820 --> 01:34:29.280 communities think is just around the 01:34:29.280 --> 01:34:31.580 corner 01:34:36.480 --> 01:34:38.159 yeah thanks for saying that Bonnie 01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:39.900 because you know I think we put like 01:34:39.900 --> 01:34:41.699 really people that are engaged in these 01:34:41.699 --> 01:34:43.320 practices are putting really high 01:34:43.320 --> 01:34:45.540 standards upon themselves to be able to 01:34:45.540 --> 01:34:46.820 do this 01:34:46.820 --> 01:34:49.980 and usually the conversation you know 01:34:49.980 --> 01:34:52.620 like the the Salient landscape kind of 01:34:52.620 --> 01:34:55.260 the the spectrum is conflict on one end 01:34:55.260 --> 01:34:57.120 and Harmony on the other right and and 01:34:57.120 --> 01:34:59.159 we move between these things and because 01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:00.659 we're all supposed to be nice and 01:35:00.659 --> 01:35:03.000 collaborate and uh you know there's 01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:04.980 there's climate change to solve and if 01:35:04.980 --> 01:35:06.780 we don't really manage to get our act 01:35:06.780 --> 01:35:08.760 together together you know and work 01:35:08.760 --> 01:35:11.580 toward trauma and Shadow and projection 01:35:11.580 --> 01:35:15.360 and blah blah blah blah blah then 01:35:15.360 --> 01:35:17.100 um you know we will be able to kind of 01:35:17.100 --> 01:35:20.219 move towards solving these higher level 01:35:20.219 --> 01:35:22.560 goals that we you know do formulate 01:35:22.560 --> 01:35:24.120 together it's really easy to kind of 01:35:24.120 --> 01:35:26.400 agree on these things but 01:35:26.400 --> 01:35:29.940 um you know the the path there in some 01:35:29.940 --> 01:35:32.340 sense is just 01:35:32.340 --> 01:35:35.159 um incongruent you know or methods that 01:35:35.159 --> 01:35:37.440 we design our our social structures that 01:35:37.440 --> 01:35:40.080 we kind of like envisioned even through 01:35:40.080 --> 01:35:44.100 our imagination are so incongruent or or 01:35:44.100 --> 01:35:47.460 uh non-isomorphic with this Relentless 01:35:47.460 --> 01:35:50.100 unfolding of reality that is happening 01:35:50.100 --> 01:35:53.760 anyway right the only time where you 01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:56.940 sometimes really feel what is going on 01:35:56.940 --> 01:35:59.940 real time and by this I include the 01:35:59.940 --> 01:36:03.780 divisions of yourselves the you know the 01:36:03.780 --> 01:36:06.060 biochemistry kind of unfolding and 01:36:06.060 --> 01:36:08.280 happening 01:36:08.280 --> 01:36:11.159 um you know harnessing that 01:36:11.159 --> 01:36:15.000 like that level of awareness is 01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:18.179 completely incompatible with 01:36:18.179 --> 01:36:21.239 consciously working on these higher 01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:25.020 level problems that require some kind of 01:36:25.020 --> 01:36:27.120 cognitive cognition you know like like 01:36:27.120 --> 01:36:28.460 an abstraction 01:36:28.460 --> 01:36:31.620 and and and and so our bodies are just 01:36:31.620 --> 01:36:34.620 not not used to handling all of that 01:36:34.620 --> 01:36:37.139 um I mean if you just spent time in that 01:36:37.139 --> 01:36:39.780 and just sit like with what is going on 01:36:39.780 --> 01:36:43.500 this is of course why why we 01:36:43.500 --> 01:36:44.219 um 01:36:44.219 --> 01:36:47.480 do Retreat sometimes but to parse that 01:36:47.480 --> 01:36:51.780 to to to turn it into like a creativity 01:36:51.780 --> 01:36:55.199 that we share I mean the ask is just 01:36:55.199 --> 01:36:57.960 tremendous and 01:36:57.960 --> 01:36:59.360 um 01:36:59.360 --> 01:37:03.540 yeah I don't see it yet right I I mean 01:37:03.540 --> 01:37:05.460 sometimes there's experiments maybe you 01:37:05.460 --> 01:37:07.500 remember like these these videos from 01:37:07.500 --> 01:37:08.699 the uh 01:37:08.699 --> 01:37:11.219 I guess from the 80s or watch that like 01:37:11.219 --> 01:37:13.639 uh documentary about the Osho Community 01:37:13.639 --> 01:37:16.080 right that's like when talking Flame 01:37:16.080 --> 01:37:18.420 Wild Wild Country and maybe some of you 01:37:18.420 --> 01:37:19.580 have seen it 01:37:19.580 --> 01:37:23.040 you know these are just these immature 01:37:23.040 --> 01:37:25.199 attempts of of trying to channel 01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:27.420 something that goes towards that it 01:37:27.420 --> 01:37:30.420 eventually is meant to give us some sort 01:37:30.420 --> 01:37:33.600 of narrative about the power of love you 01:37:33.600 --> 01:37:35.940 know that were meant to harness as a 01:37:35.940 --> 01:37:38.540 society which then is a doorway into 01:37:38.540 --> 01:37:42.239 solving our issues but so so far it's 01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:44.639 just been handling Dynamite I mean and 01:37:44.639 --> 01:37:45.840 coming back to this notion of 01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:48.659 extemporaneity 01:37:48.659 --> 01:37:50.780 um 01:37:51.139 --> 01:37:53.940 if you place yourself outside of it the 01:37:53.940 --> 01:37:55.739 the only good thing that kind of comes 01:37:55.739 --> 01:37:58.080 out out of it is that you if you place 01:37:58.080 --> 01:38:00.120 yourself out of it you get to see 01:38:00.120 --> 01:38:03.360 Humanity for for really where it's at in 01:38:03.360 --> 01:38:05.520 its evolutionary history you know we we 01:38:05.520 --> 01:38:07.920 are just living and you know we're I 01:38:07.920 --> 01:38:10.800 don't know I'm 50 years old and 01:38:10.800 --> 01:38:13.440 we we have some sort of weird date like 01:38:13.440 --> 01:38:15.300 from the birth of Jesus you know we have 01:38:15.300 --> 01:38:20.340 this year it's 2023 but to see where 01:38:20.340 --> 01:38:22.320 we're at what we're evolutionary in an 01:38:22.320 --> 01:38:24.239 evolutionary sense are capable of you 01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:26.219 you get to see that like really clearly 01:38:26.219 --> 01:38:28.800 and we're just in our infancy you know 01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:31.800 to really get a grasp of that in an 01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:35.040 objective sense is just rare and you 01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:37.080 know like in terms of 01:38:37.080 --> 01:38:39.060 getting outside of self-criticism 01:38:39.060 --> 01:38:41.040 outside of or you know if you see 01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:43.440 society as our Collective superego for 01:38:43.440 --> 01:38:45.239 what we're supposed to be doing and and 01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:47.639 you know these little schools and 01:38:47.639 --> 01:38:50.340 setting our goals then um 01:38:50.340 --> 01:38:53.699 I mean it's just so so hard to be 01:38:53.699 --> 01:38:56.340 objective and to give us also the 01:38:56.340 --> 01:38:59.639 Forgiveness that we sometimes need to be 01:38:59.639 --> 01:39:02.639 um you know that allows us to be where 01:39:02.639 --> 01:39:05.159 we are and to work it out and to up 01:39:05.159 --> 01:39:08.520 and to just shout at each other and to 01:39:08.520 --> 01:39:10.020 um 01:39:10.020 --> 01:39:14.000 well I don't know I mean 01:39:15.860 --> 01:39:18.600 yeah I guess I guess I guess I'm 01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:20.460 speaking to the to the size of questions 01:39:20.460 --> 01:39:23.280 here you know how far is the reach of a 01:39:23.280 --> 01:39:25.620 question how big is a question can we 01:39:25.620 --> 01:39:28.040 can we put like a 01:39:28.040 --> 01:39:31.020 can we put some sort of measure on that 01:39:31.020 --> 01:39:33.120 as well so we can start to relate to it 01:39:33.120 --> 01:39:35.460 as the humans that we are right instead 01:39:35.460 --> 01:39:38.159 of just be having it be ideology so 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:40.320 because ideology is a question in 01:39:40.320 --> 01:39:43.080 Disguise can we live up to it 01:39:43.080 --> 01:39:45.300 and 01:39:45.300 --> 01:39:47.400 and mostly the answer is no right 01:39:47.400 --> 01:39:48.840 because 01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:51.960 it's a 01:39:51.960 --> 01:39:55.800 yeah work in progress so yeah these 01:39:55.800 --> 01:39:58.020 These are these physical technology 01:39:58.020 --> 01:40:00.600 should be run as EXP 01:40:00.600 --> 01:40:02.699 eriment as ideologies of course then 01:40:02.699 --> 01:40:04.679 people get so they teach them and they 01:40:04.679 --> 01:40:07.199 trademark them and then people expect 01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:09.420 them to deliver Goods that they don't 01:40:09.420 --> 01:40:11.699 deliver and on and on but they shouldn't 01:40:11.699 --> 01:40:13.280 be RDR 01:40:13.280 --> 01:40:15.780 ideologies nor 01:40:15.780 --> 01:40:18.000 um understood as natural laws because 01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:19.679 they don't they're 01:40:19.679 --> 01:40:22.380 they don't they don't achieve outcomes 01:40:22.380 --> 01:40:24.860 that are predicted by their own Theory 01:40:24.860 --> 01:40:27.199 so uh 01:40:27.199 --> 01:40:28.980 so 01:40:28.980 --> 01:40:31.040 um 01:40:32.159 --> 01:40:34.500 and what one of the things one of the 01:40:34.500 --> 01:40:38.639 the how you can smell an ideology is 01:40:38.639 --> 01:40:40.679 that when people 01:40:40.679 --> 01:40:42.960 call a retreat let's say and then it 01:40:42.960 --> 01:40:46.139 doesn't go well they blame the people 01:40:46.139 --> 01:40:48.300 they don't think there's something wrong 01:40:48.300 --> 01:40:50.820 with the methodology or their Theory 01:40:50.820 --> 01:40:54.960 they don't use the negative results to 01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:58.139 say ah there's something I gotta I gotta 01:40:58.139 --> 01:40:59.760 improve what I'm doing gotta improve my 01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:01.440 pedagogy I gotta improve what I'm 01:41:01.440 --> 01:41:02.580 talking I don't know what I'm actually 01:41:02.580 --> 01:41:05.280 doing as a facilitator 01:41:05.280 --> 01:41:07.980 um they they blame 01:41:07.980 --> 01:41:10.380 um the group until they get five or six 01:41:10.380 --> 01:41:12.840 people that self-select and it works it 01:41:12.840 --> 01:41:15.840 works well because 01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:18.920 just by the law of 01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:21.120 rejecting people that don't work and 01:41:21.120 --> 01:41:23.219 then they don't come back and then 01:41:23.219 --> 01:41:25.500 you've got a group that's right that 01:41:25.500 --> 01:41:28.320 that's learned implicitly 01:41:28.320 --> 01:41:31.380 um how to function the way that they 01:41:31.380 --> 01:41:33.659 expect to function so 01:41:33.659 --> 01:41:35.219 so 01:41:35.219 --> 01:41:38.239 um all that being said you know we are a 01:41:38.239 --> 01:41:41.280 species that experiments 01:41:41.280 --> 01:41:44.400 um we can imagine hypothetical 01:41:44.400 --> 01:41:46.500 environments and then experiment with 01:41:46.500 --> 01:41:48.739 them 01:41:48.840 --> 01:41:50.639 um and 01:41:50.639 --> 01:41:52.260 um but 01:41:52.260 --> 01:41:55.139 the question is 01:41:55.139 --> 01:41:58.679 um when does the negative results or the 01:41:58.679 --> 01:42:02.219 lack of results then say 01:42:02.219 --> 01:42:05.159 um come back on the designer of the 01:42:05.159 --> 01:42:08.699 methodology versus 01:42:09.060 --> 01:42:11.760 um yeah so that's that's the question 01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:15.420 and one could even ask this question of 01:42:15.420 --> 01:42:17.460 you know any of the 01:42:17.460 --> 01:42:20.219 the Traditions 01:42:20.219 --> 01:42:23.460 um you know three thousand years of uh 01:42:23.460 --> 01:42:26.580 Western Abraham abrahamic traditions and 01:42:26.580 --> 01:42:29.520 5 000 years of meditation they don't 01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:31.199 have really good results 01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:35.460 let's be honest so we need to be in an 01:42:35.460 --> 01:42:39.000 experimental attitude for a long time 01:42:39.000 --> 01:42:42.719 because we're not doing very well 01:42:42.719 --> 01:42:44.760 it's not working 01:42:44.760 --> 01:42:46.739 I mean we have to work with what we have 01:42:46.739 --> 01:42:48.540 but we have to have I like what you said 01:42:48.540 --> 01:42:53.060 the Relentless unfolding of reality 01:42:54.960 --> 01:42:57.540 it's not good enough 01:42:57.540 --> 01:43:00.440 it's not good enough 01:43:00.659 --> 01:43:03.380 Anna 01:43:03.659 --> 01:43:06.960 she erased her wonderful 01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:08.940 last name I know it's something 01:43:08.940 --> 01:43:12.540 something abander plonk yeah something 01:43:12.540 --> 01:43:15.000 something vanity plank 01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:17.040 thanks Bonnie there's a lot of energy 01:43:17.040 --> 01:43:20.520 here for me arising and 01:43:20.520 --> 01:43:22.080 I have to give it an action that 01:43:22.080 --> 01:43:25.340 satisfies I'm going to speak 01:43:25.920 --> 01:43:28.100 um 01:43:30.480 --> 01:43:33.119 for me there are some elements that are 01:43:33.119 --> 01:43:35.280 arising and it's how that language has 01:43:35.280 --> 01:43:38.760 been constructed and especially in the 01:43:38.760 --> 01:43:42.659 places where this harmony is 01:43:42.659 --> 01:43:46.320 almost being forcefully created it 01:43:46.320 --> 01:43:49.219 becomes a force 01:43:49.320 --> 01:43:51.179 that 01:43:51.179 --> 01:43:53.940 oh I'm gonna say this where the second 01:43:53.940 --> 01:43:56.340 person perspective a lot of the times is 01:43:56.340 --> 01:43:57.540 absent 01:43:57.540 --> 01:44:02.760 so it's almost forcing a view or a not 01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:05.820 allowing what actually is arising to be 01:44:05.820 --> 01:44:08.100 with that and speak to that 01:44:08.100 --> 01:44:10.440 and it can be something that's totally 01:44:10.440 --> 01:44:12.540 opposite or something that has never 01:44:12.540 --> 01:44:16.980 ever been named or voiced or been with 01:44:16.980 --> 01:44:19.199 but it's almost like 01:44:19.199 --> 01:44:22.619 a lack of trust to be with that without 01:44:22.619 --> 01:44:25.860 having to include that perspective but 01:44:25.860 --> 01:44:28.980 just the allowing of being with that is 01:44:28.980 --> 01:44:31.199 is creating this spaciousness or this 01:44:31.199 --> 01:44:33.780 mouriness of the aloe Centric 01:44:33.780 --> 01:44:37.219 and I'm very curious about 01:44:37.219 --> 01:44:40.080 about our energy signatures and about 01:44:40.080 --> 01:44:42.420 creating and developing these what I 01:44:42.420 --> 01:44:44.580 don't know what is a healthy eye what is 01:44:44.580 --> 01:44:46.800 a healthy eye I don't know but just 01:44:46.800 --> 01:44:50.040 having these energy signatures that we 01:44:50.040 --> 01:44:52.679 are and ground and be with that in our 01:44:52.679 --> 01:44:55.080 bodies and just you know just speak to 01:44:55.080 --> 01:44:58.040 what is arising and therefore connect 01:44:58.040 --> 01:45:01.920 who's there in that same space but 01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:04.260 there's like an 01:45:04.260 --> 01:45:06.260 um 01:45:08.940 --> 01:45:11.520 I always get like on high alert when 01:45:11.520 --> 01:45:13.440 people tell me what to do or what to say 01:45:13.440 --> 01:45:16.260 and I think off and why am I not 01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:18.659 saying off you know why is that 01:45:18.659 --> 01:45:20.580 culturally not okay 01:45:20.580 --> 01:45:23.219 because I do feel that I want to say 01:45:23.219 --> 01:45:26.280 off I don't agree with that and 01:45:26.280 --> 01:45:28.080 please don't tell me what to do or what 01:45:28.080 --> 01:45:30.719 to say because I don't feel it but I'm 01:45:30.719 --> 01:45:33.000 happy to explain where I am and I'm 01:45:33.000 --> 01:45:34.980 getting emotional now so ooh this is big 01:45:34.980 --> 01:45:36.900 for me 01:45:36.900 --> 01:45:39.960 um yeah there's a lot here that that I 01:45:39.960 --> 01:45:42.119 really want to speak to and explore and 01:45:42.119 --> 01:45:45.480 play with and and I feel this is a 01:45:45.480 --> 01:45:47.340 beautiful Edge that's got so much 01:45:47.340 --> 01:45:50.460 potentiality and I do feel a huge 01:45:50.460 --> 01:45:52.739 capacity here with us like you know 01:45:52.739 --> 01:45:54.659 already 01:45:54.659 --> 01:45:57.239 how do you say off and not distance 01:45:57.239 --> 01:45:59.639 the person stay in relationship this is 01:45:59.639 --> 01:46:02.280 what Phoebe was saying how do you how do 01:46:02.280 --> 01:46:05.639 you do that and stay with the person I 01:46:05.639 --> 01:46:08.760 think I just have the awareness exactly 01:46:08.760 --> 01:46:12.540 because because 01:46:12.900 --> 01:46:14.699 foreign 01:46:14.699 --> 01:46:17.230 your 01:46:17.230 --> 01:46:18.480 [Music] 01:46:18.480 --> 01:46:20.639 you can't control how the other person 01:46:20.639 --> 01:46:23.880 reacts but you can control that you 01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:26.159 didn't you weren't trying to be out of 01:46:26.159 --> 01:46:27.900 relationship 01:46:27.900 --> 01:46:30.719 you are trying to you know used to be 01:46:30.719 --> 01:46:33.719 easier like in the movies you just slap 01:46:33.719 --> 01:46:35.880 the hysterical person and you start all 01:46:35.880 --> 01:46:38.940 over and now it's all dialogic right 01:46:38.940 --> 01:46:41.219 um but that's basically what you're 01:46:41.219 --> 01:46:43.199 trying to do when you say off it's 01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:44.880 like the whole you're just trying to 01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:47.460 reset the the you want to stay in 01:46:47.460 --> 01:46:49.440 relationship but 01:46:49.440 --> 01:46:51.560 um 01:46:55.639 --> 01:46:58.560 this this conversation is so weird 01:46:58.560 --> 01:47:00.780 because 01:47:00.780 --> 01:47:02.960 um 01:47:03.780 --> 01:47:06.679 because you know I was just in Vermont 01:47:06.679 --> 01:47:10.619 at this Retreat being spoken to by a 01:47:10.619 --> 01:47:11.940 rabbi 01:47:11.940 --> 01:47:15.480 who I told to off I use the F-bomb 01:47:15.480 --> 01:47:17.820 like six times 01:47:17.820 --> 01:47:20.820 doctors only into his speech for like 12 01:47:20.820 --> 01:47:22.679 minutes I'm like you don't get 01:47:22.679 --> 01:47:25.380 to talk to me that way just stop 01:47:25.380 --> 01:47:27.060 it if you have something to say 01:47:27.060 --> 01:47:30.000 like put it into three bullets and just 01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:31.679 say them and then let us talk I mean 01:47:31.679 --> 01:47:34.020 it's funny because she said Rabbi and 01:47:34.020 --> 01:47:37.460 you said this and 01:47:37.679 --> 01:47:41.040 to his credit he we we stayed in 01:47:41.040 --> 01:47:43.679 relationship and this was a very big 01:47:43.679 --> 01:47:47.060 deal for me to 01:47:47.060 --> 01:47:50.340 uh we had a nice little conversation 01:47:50.340 --> 01:47:52.260 afterwards and then we went for a walk 01:47:52.260 --> 01:47:55.020 the next day and really kind of shared 01:47:55.020 --> 01:47:57.860 uh 01:47:58.199 --> 01:48:00.960 different things that were in that NRG 01:48:00.960 --> 01:48:03.179 but but 01:48:03.179 --> 01:48:04.260 um 01:48:04.260 --> 01:48:07.320 so that's a very high some people were 01:48:07.320 --> 01:48:11.400 horrified and came up to me and started 01:48:11.400 --> 01:48:13.440 accusing me of this and accusing me of 01:48:13.440 --> 01:48:16.560 that and I had to like you know get on 01:48:16.560 --> 01:48:21.300 their page and say you know that I had 01:48:21.300 --> 01:48:23.760 taken dotted my eyes and crossed my 01:48:23.760 --> 01:48:26.040 teeth whatever some people were not at 01:48:26.040 --> 01:48:28.020 high capacity but many people were at 01:48:28.020 --> 01:48:32.280 high capacity and this Rabbi is an 01:48:32.280 --> 01:48:33.380 energy 01:48:33.380 --> 01:48:36.719 Contra person anyways 01:48:36.719 --> 01:48:38.760 um so it was all a discussion at that 01:48:38.760 --> 01:48:41.100 level but 01:48:41.100 --> 01:48:42.960 um that that's those people were at high 01:48:42.960 --> 01:48:47.639 capacity uh I would say even still I had 01:48:47.639 --> 01:48:50.159 to I went into my room and cried like a 01:48:50.159 --> 01:48:52.679 baby and it's really hard to work on it 01:48:52.679 --> 01:48:55.139 was the shame wanted to come up you know 01:48:55.139 --> 01:48:58.199 because I was with my peers so very very 01:48:58.199 --> 01:48:59.880 difficult 01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:03.800 I I got in my car and played Enya 01:49:03.800 --> 01:49:06.119 evangelist and danced in a medal the 01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:08.820 next morning and I was crying and that 01:49:08.820 --> 01:49:10.320 felt good and then every once in a while 01:49:10.320 --> 01:49:12.239 it'd be I think I told this story the 01:49:12.239 --> 01:49:14.460 other day like why is it so painful to 01:49:14.460 --> 01:49:16.980 cry and that was because 01:49:16.980 --> 01:49:18.840 um 01:49:18.840 --> 01:49:21.659 I was I because 01:49:21.659 --> 01:49:24.060 a little story would come up you know so 01:49:24.060 --> 01:49:26.699 it's very very difficult it's it's very 01:49:26.699 --> 01:49:28.980 very difficult in 01:49:28.980 --> 01:49:29.580 um 01:49:29.580 --> 01:49:31.980 uh 01:49:31.980 --> 01:49:34.920 even when in general there's high 01:49:34.920 --> 01:49:37.080 capacity and then the next day the 01:49:37.080 --> 01:49:38.880 energy went up again in somebody else 01:49:38.880 --> 01:49:41.699 who I very much admire freaked out and 01:49:41.699 --> 01:49:43.739 started screaming 01:49:43.739 --> 01:49:45.840 screaming that I don't even know where 01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:48.320 it came from and I was like you know 01:49:48.320 --> 01:49:52.260 like so this is what I'm saying we have 01:49:52.260 --> 01:49:54.900 to realize how 01:49:54.900 --> 01:49:56.880 uh 01:49:56.880 --> 01:50:00.360 yeah like emo was saying how how were 01:50:00.360 --> 01:50:04.800 babies at this you know uh it's and it's 01:50:04.800 --> 01:50:06.960 not clear whether this is something we 01:50:06.960 --> 01:50:09.480 have to go through or because of the 01:50:09.480 --> 01:50:12.840 shape of culture today is impossible is 01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:13.920 just 01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:16.739 foreign puts too much 01:50:16.739 --> 01:50:19.139 taxes our nervous system too much it's 01:50:19.139 --> 01:50:21.840 not clear they're probably both both 01:50:21.840 --> 01:50:23.460 correct but 01:50:23.460 --> 01:50:24.900 um 01:50:24.900 --> 01:50:27.000 yeah 01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:29.580 things and and what it arises when you 01:50:29.580 --> 01:50:32.100 were speaking body is like if I can't 01:50:32.100 --> 01:50:34.560 say off and have my boundaries with 01:50:34.560 --> 01:50:37.139 my husband then how the F or with my 01:50:37.139 --> 01:50:38.820 friends or with my children then how can 01:50:38.820 --> 01:50:41.520 I do that in society so where where 01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:44.219 where's this sacred or playful 01:50:44.219 --> 01:50:46.320 playground or where is it starting I 01:50:46.320 --> 01:50:48.900 feel that that for me is the the circles 01:50:48.900 --> 01:50:51.060 the first circles and then it expands 01:50:51.060 --> 01:50:54.540 like people are shouting their ideas on 01:50:54.540 --> 01:50:58.020 on Facebook if they face an energy 01:50:58.020 --> 01:51:00.420 that's pushing or resisting and then 01:51:00.420 --> 01:51:02.460 they give their comment and then that 01:51:02.460 --> 01:51:04.679 precious energy that actually can change 01:51:04.679 --> 01:51:08.100 something is gone in The Ether yeah and 01:51:08.100 --> 01:51:09.960 you have to be able to take it as much 01:51:09.960 --> 01:51:12.780 as give it right like there's been times 01:51:12.780 --> 01:51:15.000 where like there's so much pressure on 01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:16.679 the other person and then they'll just 01:51:16.679 --> 01:51:19.860 like I said this other person you've got 01:51:19.860 --> 01:51:22.139 it and then they're just and now it's 01:51:22.139 --> 01:51:24.860 coming your way 01:51:25.619 --> 01:51:28.679 in reality the person I told he didn't 01:51:28.679 --> 01:51:30.900 get to talk to me that way was using 01:51:30.900 --> 01:51:33.420 nice words saying nice things being 01:51:33.420 --> 01:51:36.179 conceptual and he didn't get to 01:51:36.179 --> 01:51:38.100 talk to me that way and the one that was 01:51:38.100 --> 01:51:41.040 screaming at me like standing this guy 01:51:41.040 --> 01:51:43.440 and like screaming at me 01:51:43.440 --> 01:51:46.560 that was that was okay and I understood 01:51:46.560 --> 01:51:49.139 what was coming that was arousal energy 01:51:49.139 --> 01:51:52.139 so 01:51:53.400 --> 01:51:55.619 and I think what you're describing is we 01:51:55.619 --> 01:51:56.880 tell people the up is because 01:51:56.880 --> 01:51:59.040 they're being nice and it's implicit and 01:51:59.040 --> 01:52:01.560 they're manipulating and this is why you 01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:03.060 can get embarrassed because you look 01:52:03.060 --> 01:52:05.000 like the one that's the 01:52:05.000 --> 01:52:08.340 especially if nobody else is they're 01:52:08.340 --> 01:52:12.239 like okay with it you know so I mean in 01:52:12.239 --> 01:52:14.159 this case there was a whole group of 01:52:14.159 --> 01:52:16.260 people that felt the same way and they 01:52:16.260 --> 01:52:21.000 understood that he that was just 01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:23.699 getting that energy out from underneath 01:52:23.699 --> 01:52:25.619 the table but 01:52:25.619 --> 01:52:28.139 yeah so we're talking about the these 01:52:28.139 --> 01:52:29.580 are all different social psycho 01:52:29.580 --> 01:52:31.619 technologies that we are interested in 01:52:31.619 --> 01:52:34.800 in uh experimenting with but there 01:52:34.800 --> 01:52:37.260 really are experiments 01:52:37.260 --> 01:52:39.600 um we really don't know what we're doing 01:52:39.600 --> 01:52:42.239 and 01:52:42.239 --> 01:52:45.840 even after the fact you explain it but 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:47.940 like at one point I was telling 01:52:47.940 --> 01:52:50.520 explaining my situation and I had to say 01:52:50.520 --> 01:52:52.080 in the second case I'm like and then 01:52:52.080 --> 01:52:54.480 something happened and actually I I 01:52:54.480 --> 01:52:56.400 don't even really know what happened 01:52:56.400 --> 01:52:59.940 so much was happening at the same time 01:52:59.940 --> 01:53:03.060 um so uh we have to be careful not to 01:53:03.060 --> 01:53:05.520 narratively reconstruct it so it looks 01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:08.400 like someone else's fault and not yours 01:53:08.400 --> 01:53:13.199 uh which is a tendency we have because 01:53:13.199 --> 01:53:16.199 in those situations all everyone will 01:53:16.199 --> 01:53:17.639 have a different narrative because 01:53:17.639 --> 01:53:21.300 nobody really knew it's not clear what 01:53:21.300 --> 01:53:22.739 actually happens the whole thing 01:53:22.739 --> 01:53:25.260 explodes 01:53:25.260 --> 01:53:27.960 uh but people will go they'll sit with 01:53:27.960 --> 01:53:29.119 their friends 01:53:29.119 --> 01:53:32.880 they'll shape a common narrative uh that 01:53:32.880 --> 01:53:34.260 makes them look good and the other one 01:53:34.260 --> 01:53:36.239 bad and this is something that we have 01:53:36.239 --> 01:53:39.000 to also uh 01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:41.940 be careful with 01:53:41.940 --> 01:53:44.699 this is who we are this is 01:53:44.699 --> 01:53:48.440 we think we're grown up but 01:53:49.500 --> 01:53:51.500 yeah thanks for saying that 01:53:51.500 --> 01:53:54.119 go ahead whoever was like trying to 01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:55.100 speak 01:53:55.100 --> 01:53:58.739 spoken it was just a quick comment I I 01:53:58.739 --> 01:54:00.600 was listening to Michael Lewin the other 01:54:00.600 --> 01:54:04.619 day and he was um talking about 01:54:04.619 --> 01:54:07.139 um diversity of intelligences I mean 01:54:07.139 --> 01:54:10.440 even within your own body that we kind 01:54:10.440 --> 01:54:13.320 of overvalue you know the brain and this 01:54:13.320 --> 01:54:15.900 that and the other but if we really 01:54:15.900 --> 01:54:18.600 really focused on what the liver is 01:54:18.600 --> 01:54:22.020 doing you know it's it's like an 01:54:22.020 --> 01:54:24.840 incredible intelligence that only the 01:54:24.840 --> 01:54:28.440 liver can perform I mean there's not 01:54:28.440 --> 01:54:31.440 another liver there's that River doing 01:54:31.440 --> 01:54:34.980 that and I think I don't know if this 01:54:34.980 --> 01:54:37.440 makes sense to anybody else but 01:54:37.440 --> 01:54:40.800 in trying to stay away from 01:54:40.800 --> 01:54:44.480 um these these blame or praise 01:54:44.480 --> 01:54:47.040 polarities because they work the same 01:54:47.040 --> 01:54:49.080 way really 01:54:49.080 --> 01:54:49.820 um 01:54:49.820 --> 01:54:53.900 that this this malware I could almost 01:54:53.900 --> 01:54:58.320 try to describe it as as a zero-sum 01:54:58.320 --> 01:55:00.420 mandate 01:55:00.420 --> 01:55:04.219 I mean there's kind of this learned 01:55:04.219 --> 01:55:07.440 zero-sum mandate across the board that 01:55:07.440 --> 01:55:10.679 just affects different organisms 01:55:10.679 --> 01:55:12.980 in different ways and different 01:55:12.980 --> 01:55:16.800 intelligences in different ways and you 01:55:16.800 --> 01:55:20.880 know to wean ourselves out of this 01:55:20.880 --> 01:55:23.639 um mandate you know I I really don't 01:55:23.639 --> 01:55:26.400 think it's possible after a certain age 01:55:26.400 --> 01:55:28.560 and and 01:55:28.560 --> 01:55:30.420 you know I kind of went into this 01:55:30.420 --> 01:55:32.940 Retreat last week with this total 01:55:32.940 --> 01:55:35.580 conviction that we need to abolish High 01:55:35.580 --> 01:55:37.139 School 01:55:37.139 --> 01:55:39.719 just a minute 01:55:39.719 --> 01:55:42.659 you know just kind of abolish High 01:55:42.659 --> 01:55:43.500 School 01:55:43.500 --> 01:55:45.659 because that's where 01:55:45.659 --> 01:55:48.179 this Middle Passage 01:55:48.179 --> 01:55:52.500 kind of starts to really condition to 01:55:52.500 --> 01:55:55.679 this zero-sum mandate and we treat it 01:55:55.679 --> 01:55:59.699 like oh it's you know something that 01:55:59.699 --> 01:56:02.639 um you have to go through in order to 01:56:02.639 --> 01:56:05.760 face the adult reality or whatever but 01:56:05.760 --> 01:56:08.760 that's exactly where we lose 01:56:08.760 --> 01:56:12.900 I think access to what could be a 01:56:12.900 --> 01:56:16.320 different co-evolutionary moment for a 01:56:16.320 --> 01:56:19.380 species it's only 300 000 years old I 01:56:19.380 --> 01:56:22.380 mean jury's still out as to whether 01:56:22.380 --> 01:56:24.000 we're going to learn 01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:27.119 how to be with the ecosystems that we 01:56:27.119 --> 01:56:29.460 need to 01:56:29.460 --> 01:56:31.860 um it's just very we're very recent with 01:56:31.860 --> 01:56:35.520 the youngest species on the planet so 01:56:35.520 --> 01:56:36.900 you know 01:56:36.900 --> 01:56:38.900 um 01:56:39.360 --> 01:56:43.320 Amy yeah there's Factoria that are 01:56:43.320 --> 01:56:45.060 younger than us but 01:56:45.060 --> 01:56:46.020 um 01:56:46.020 --> 01:56:48.199 um 01:56:48.719 --> 01:56:52.139 yeah so civilization started around 15 01:56:52.139 --> 01:56:54.780 000 years ago and all civilizations 01:56:54.780 --> 01:56:56.699 they're predicated on the down 01:56:56.699 --> 01:56:59.460 regulation of arousal energy right and 01:56:59.460 --> 01:57:02.400 one with one kind of ideology or another 01:57:02.400 --> 01:57:06.360 this is what Freud's point was uh 01:57:06.360 --> 01:57:09.119 um so there's a trade-off uh 01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:11.460 civilization and then you have it's 01:57:11.460 --> 01:57:14.820 discontents right so 01:57:14.820 --> 01:57:17.520 um so this is this is an interesting 01:57:17.520 --> 01:57:20.460 question about our future 01:57:20.460 --> 01:57:22.520 um 01:57:22.920 --> 01:57:24.300 but 01:57:24.300 --> 01:57:26.300 um 01:57:30.300 --> 01:57:32.040 yeah 01:57:32.040 --> 01:57:35.219 with this kind of conversation for 01:57:35.219 --> 01:57:38.520 example or practice 01:57:38.520 --> 01:57:41.880 you know has has never really been done 01:57:41.880 --> 01:57:43.619 before 01:57:43.619 --> 01:57:46.980 and that's part of it I'm not as scary I 01:57:46.980 --> 01:57:48.900 mean no yeah 01:57:48.900 --> 01:57:52.320 um and it's in it and it takes a lot so 01:57:52.320 --> 01:57:54.840 I'm gonna have to run this is a great 01:57:54.840 --> 01:57:57.360 conversation I mean we have whenever we 01:57:57.360 --> 01:57:59.159 have energy to keep going after two 01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:00.900 hours that means there's 01:58:00.900 --> 01:58:04.139 it's not really depleted us 01:58:04.139 --> 01:58:06.900 um that even heard from Susan yet and I 01:58:06.900 --> 01:58:08.820 know she holds back she's trying to be 01:58:08.820 --> 01:58:11.360 like Ray 01:58:13.500 --> 01:58:15.780 just teasing 01:58:15.780 --> 01:58:19.679 um but uh but thank you so much for a 01:58:19.679 --> 01:58:21.599 conversation and maybe David if you want 01:58:21.599 --> 01:58:23.760 to come to the next one uh we'll look at 01:58:23.760 --> 01:58:25.800 more of the text because when you read 01:58:25.800 --> 01:58:28.139 that doc to me that I was very tempted 01:58:28.139 --> 01:58:31.440 to uh talk about the writing so maybe 01:58:31.440 --> 01:58:34.760 I'll use my Force Major 01:58:34.760 --> 01:58:38.780 uh to get on that page 01:58:38.880 --> 01:58:41.820 I'll be back 01:58:41.820 --> 01:58:43.560 thank you very much 01:58:43.560 --> 01:58:46.340 bye everyone ## Cohort 4 00:00:01.380 --> 00:00:03.500 thank you 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:20.100 this chorus sometimes reminds me of that 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:22.920 movie it's like a science fiction movie 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:25.320 not I mean a horror movie 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:27.300 I want to say it's 10 Little Indians but 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:29.039 it isn't but anyways these people they 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:30.900 get invited to this dinner party and 00:00:30.900 --> 00:00:33.120 then look one after another 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:35.700 they start to die 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:38.579 what was that movie 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:41.040 and of course every time someone dies 00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:42.960 people are flustered because everybody 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:44.879 thought it was sure that that was the 00:00:44.879 --> 00:00:46.620 person that was you know they got it set 00:00:46.620 --> 00:00:48.719 up so the person that you think is the 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:51.120 murderer is the person that falls off 00:00:51.120 --> 00:00:52.980 next I can't I have no idea how the 00:00:52.980 --> 00:00:55.020 movie ends or anything 00:00:55.020 --> 00:00:57.780 but anyways it's not supposed to be more 00:00:57.780 --> 00:00:59.940 but it's supposed to be funny 00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:01.800 um 00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:05.220 um but yeah so here we are I'm sure this 00:01:05.220 --> 00:01:07.439 will be some late late skis seems like 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:09.180 babies alive 00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:12.520 oh baby's alive I didn't mean that 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:13.979 [Music] 00:01:13.979 --> 00:01:15.860 foreign 00:01:15.860 --> 00:01:18.780 will be the last person standing he will 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:21.180 be the one that knife 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:23.520 all right so I thought we did something 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:26.340 a little different today to start off 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:27.850 um if that's okay with you 00:01:27.850 --> 00:01:29.159 [Music] 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:31.680 because it's a problem I'm torturing 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:33.780 myself with 00:01:33.780 --> 00:01:36.659 um so I figured I'd try to spread the 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:39.600 torture uh distributed you know 00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:42.479 ecosystems 00:01:42.479 --> 00:01:46.140 so let me just like this is a really bad 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:48.240 illustration 00:01:48.240 --> 00:01:51.540 um because I I put it up on PowerPoint 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:53.399 you know me and when I'm trying to work 00:01:53.399 --> 00:01:56.100 out something I have all these drawings 00:01:56.100 --> 00:01:58.020 and fries and Rhymes trying to figure 00:01:58.020 --> 00:02:00.360 out and then I'm like well I can't I 00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:01.680 can't show that it doesn't make any 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.720 sense and so I did this PowerPoint thing 00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:06.479 but it's not very good like it but it's 00:02:06.479 --> 00:02:09.239 I just want to show you what is that's 00:02:09.239 --> 00:02:11.160 kind of at stake what we're trying to 00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:13.560 formulate here right so 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.060 um 00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:17.580 um if you don't get it then it's because 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:20.640 it's not it's not such a great uh great 00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:23.120 thing okay 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:26.040 um and I've seen Claudia there she 00:02:26.040 --> 00:02:28.980 sometimes and takes my stuff and then 00:02:28.980 --> 00:02:31.379 draws these great illustrations and 00:02:31.379 --> 00:02:33.599 Sandra sometimes takes it and draws 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:36.599 these connections so I'd be very happy 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.900 to see some improvement 00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:42.300 on this pathetic thing I'm going to 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:46.700 share with you live online today 00:02:46.700 --> 00:02:50.120 distributed torture 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:55.260 we got the DTs here okay so 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.440 we're going to share this thing I'm 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:01.459 going to hide 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:05.040 Okay so 00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:08.480 here we have 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:12.720 space or something you know just 00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:15.080 space 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:18.900 and then into this space we have a 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.120 person is in this space but the person 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.519 is a compound individual you see how the 00:03:23.519 --> 00:03:25.440 person's made up of like all these other 00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:28.680 cells and all these these bacteria and 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.680 these invasive species in some cases are 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:33.780 in their gut and stuff so I'll show you 00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:35.640 that again the thing is we have to 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:38.459 really come to terms with the fact 00:03:38.459 --> 00:03:40.980 that we're talking about 00:03:40.980 --> 00:03:43.860 both the single individual here which 00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:45.540 we're calling a person 00:03:45.540 --> 00:03:50.060 and somehow having to keep in mind 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:52.920 that is composed of all these other 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:55.500 dimensions of reality right 00:03:55.500 --> 00:03:57.540 and each one of these little dot 00:03:57.540 --> 00:04:00.540 dimensions of reality itself is composed 00:04:00.540 --> 00:04:02.760 about by dot dimensions of reality does 00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:04.080 that kind of make sense with this little 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:07.080 slide is just gonna thumbs up or 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:09.000 something okay so that's all that means 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.620 and I'll show you too once again you 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:16.280 gotta try to come to terms with the body 00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:19.440 as this 00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:23.299 habitat of other bodies 00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:29.340 okay 00:04:29.340 --> 00:04:31.940 now 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:36.860 this body walks into a meadow 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.780 and experiences this this compound 00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:45.479 individual experiences the metal is full 00:04:45.479 --> 00:04:48.360 with flowers grasses 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:52.560 it doesn't experience the meadow as 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.080 a bunch of little dots right I mean this 00:04:55.080 --> 00:04:56.940 is the ordinary we're looking at the 00:04:56.940 --> 00:04:59.580 compound individual as a bunch of dots 00:04:59.580 --> 00:05:01.620 but the compound individual themselves 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:05.639 is just experiencing the metal in in 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:08.160 this ordinary human way 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.360 and just walking by them that are 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.400 noticing on a nice spring day it's just 00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:19.100 a little metal walk and in the process 00:05:20.460 --> 00:05:21.060 um 00:05:21.060 --> 00:05:23.639 begins to 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.100 Ingress this is the word we have the 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:30.360 habitat that's walking through begins to 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.100 be 00:05:32.100 --> 00:05:36.300 not only something that is apprehended 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:37.620 by 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:43.620 their awareness but also somehow 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:46.620 that 00:05:48.780 --> 00:05:51.720 gets trains all the other individuals 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.800 somehow got awareness gets also trained 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.220 all the other 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:01.500 sub-individuals get trained on to that 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:04.259 information also does that make sense 00:06:04.259 --> 00:06:06.180 like 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:07.500 books 00:06:07.500 --> 00:06:09.539 we're gonna have to look at him yet so 00:06:09.539 --> 00:06:11.880 he's what first is this compound 00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:15.000 individual walking through the metal the 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.220 fact that it can walk is because of 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:20.520 these compounds all these things are 00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:23.280 acting in some kind of Unison and then 00:06:23.280 --> 00:06:26.340 he gets this awareness Meadow at 00:06:26.340 --> 00:06:28.440 whatever level of complexity can become 00:06:28.440 --> 00:06:30.120 a narrative it could become a Disney 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.180 movie whatever anyways the first so so 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:35.699 this is the first 00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:38.940 but it's it's not 00:06:38.940 --> 00:06:41.940 the fact that he they that he has this 00:06:41.940 --> 00:06:43.979 awareness is because 00:06:43.979 --> 00:06:47.699 the metal is directly Ingress into 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:50.699 the populations that is the person so 00:06:50.699 --> 00:06:53.400 the fact that you can have the idea of a 00:06:53.400 --> 00:06:55.860 meadow means that the cells in your 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:58.680 brain are directly involved in creating 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.759 that idea 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:04.199 do you see what I'm saying 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.100 the Ingress actually goes directly to 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:11.039 which begs then the question is what is 00:07:11.039 --> 00:07:12.720 the compound individual this has all 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:14.520 kinds of problems I told you this is a 00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:17.220 torturous thing okay now we have uh 00:07:17.220 --> 00:07:19.139 something else bizarre happening and 00:07:19.139 --> 00:07:21.660 this actually very common thing and now 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:23.400 he's bumps into there's somebody else 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:26.759 walking into the meadow 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:29.759 and they are a compound individual and 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.300 now they're exchanging thought Bubbles 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:37.020 and stuff like that and becoming more of 00:07:37.020 --> 00:07:39.360 a different type of com they're 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:40.979 constituting a different type of 00:07:40.979 --> 00:07:42.780 compound individual 00:07:42.780 --> 00:07:47.060 uh which is culture 00:07:57.960 --> 00:07:59.520 so 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:02.759 I want to go back to the slide that I 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.599 showed in the hollow series of distilla 00:08:06.599 --> 00:08:09.840 and it shows the anabra these are 00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:12.720 Aboriginal drawings and I was trying to 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:18.319 show a view of reality in which 00:08:18.479 --> 00:08:22.080 you have all these living centers 00:08:22.080 --> 00:08:26.039 and they self-organize in such a way to 00:08:26.039 --> 00:08:29.039 become compound individuals but they 00:08:29.039 --> 00:08:31.379 also 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:34.860 in the background their participation is 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.560 living centers at this lower layer 00:08:37.560 --> 00:08:40.080 doesn't go away 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.320 right so when we look at the stars in 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:48.240 the night sky and we see a bull 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.519 the bull is 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.100 the Stars themselves are still there 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:56.339 there's a certain organization that's 00:08:56.339 --> 00:08:57.720 happening 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.899 in which the beings 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:02.600 um 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:06.240 become causal agents at a another level 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.880 of reality another scale of reality 00:09:32.339 --> 00:09:36.720 and of course this is part of our 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:38.700 investigation of now how do we put the 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:42.899 body back into nature and one could see 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:47.279 this as the cosmic microwave background 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.459 which was the original pattern at the 00:09:50.459 --> 00:09:53.519 beginning of the beginning so 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:57.779 um that's kind of the way my mind works 00:09:57.779 --> 00:09:58.920 um 00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:01.500 and 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:02.940 um 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:07.500 yeah it's very hard to 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:09.959 you have to like use your mind in 10 00:10:09.959 --> 00:10:13.760 Dimensions kind of like 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.700 thank you 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:21.080 all right that's all I got to say 00:10:32.459 --> 00:10:35.160 obviously it's not a problem to be 00:10:35.160 --> 00:10:39.320 solved it's a mystery to be 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:44.040 experienced or explored I mean how how 00:10:44.040 --> 00:10:47.160 because then there are questions like is 00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:50.660 there a level of 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:56.399 if if I 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.640 see it gets very very tricky because 00:10:59.640 --> 00:11:02.339 again if I'm walking through the meadow 00:11:02.339 --> 00:11:04.680 and I'm aware of I am walking through a 00:11:04.680 --> 00:11:07.040 meadow 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:13.320 that phenomenon itself is because all 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:17.420 the subunits in me are also directly 00:11:17.420 --> 00:11:22.260 interacting in the meadow which is why 00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:24.980 I get served up 00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:28.079 this perception that it seems to exist 00:11:28.079 --> 00:11:31.019 only at the scale of the human right so 00:11:31.019 --> 00:11:33.060 I mean that's true it seems to exist 00:11:33.060 --> 00:11:35.459 only at the scale of the human 00:11:35.459 --> 00:11:38.339 and so what we actually have is some 00:11:38.339 --> 00:11:42.180 kind of porous direct participation 00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:45.779 of everything across all these scales 00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:50.519 and that somehow though creates 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:57.779 experiences that are are accessible and 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:00.420 experiences that are not accessible the 00:12:00.420 --> 00:12:04.380 experience that maybe maybe one of my 00:12:04.380 --> 00:12:07.019 brain cells is being attacked by you 00:12:07.019 --> 00:12:10.680 know some bacteria and and somebody and 00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:12.660 the other immune systems cleaning that 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:16.440 up I can't experience that from as my 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.940 experience it right and whatever happens 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:22.680 to the neurons 00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:24.779 they don't experience you know they 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:26.579 don't do language oh look it's a metal 00:12:26.579 --> 00:12:28.980 oh look it's a butterfly 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:31.440 um that experience at that level is not 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.899 acceptable accessible to me but the 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:36.120 point is is that the participation 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:40.220 itself is seamless 00:12:40.260 --> 00:12:44.240 the kind of experience 00:12:45.380 --> 00:12:48.480 that any agent any individual or 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.519 compound individuals have any there's 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.899 only a radius of accessibility 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:56.579 and 00:12:56.579 --> 00:12:59.300 but 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.700 the participation is is seamless and 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:04.940 direct 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.120 it's not like I'm walking through the 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.240 meadow I have an experience or thought 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.100 of I'm walking through the meadow and 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.860 then that thought creates downward 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:19.500 causation it can't be just like that 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:21.360 because the fact that I have a thought 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.660 is because there's cells in my brains 00:13:24.660 --> 00:13:28.079 being individual agents themselves 00:13:28.079 --> 00:13:30.000 so it's kind of a big deal what I'm 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.220 trying to say I don't know how to say I 00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:34.740 mean it's one of these loopy things 00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:37.200 um but 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.060 that's kind of 00:13:39.060 --> 00:13:40.740 um 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:42.720 when we're not I think we did a good job 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:44.639 putting the Mind back into the body it's 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.680 quite easy because we just use the 00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:50.839 animal body and see how much 00:13:50.839 --> 00:13:54.420 uh some you know how familiar our our 00:13:54.420 --> 00:13:57.300 ways are but putting the body back into 00:13:57.300 --> 00:14:02.540 nature requires a kind of uh 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.760 a perspectival shift that is quite 00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:08.300 complex 00:14:11.880 --> 00:14:14.880 well I think a decent example is that 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:16.800 we always see a tiny part of the 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:19.079 electromagnetic spectrum right and yet 00:14:19.079 --> 00:14:21.240 all of it is hitting us energetically 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.500 all of it BC more than we do right 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.680 it's what we are 00:14:27.680 --> 00:14:31.320 enculturated and physically oriented to 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.240 focus our attention on is wear your 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.519 attention I think it was 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.440 Meister Eckhart said something like 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.680 where you put your attention God is 00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:42.600 you know so it's a matter of where is 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.120 your attention it's only it tends to be 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.519 in the arena in which you were trained 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:50.940 to sing but it's broad I mean I had two 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:52.500 children when they're newborn they're 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.360 not focused on jack they're just 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.480 like where the hell am I of course they 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:59.699 can't have that but you can't see where 00:14:59.699 --> 00:15:03.120 they are you can see the space of them 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.860 but they're not focused 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.579 yeah so they're much more of a compound 00:15:11.579 --> 00:15:15.420 individual until then we so Michael 00:15:15.420 --> 00:15:18.180 Levin says we're used to seeing you know 00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:19.399 this is 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.620 the verbeki's notion of relevance 00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:25.860 realization but Michael Levin says that 00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:30.000 we're used to assigning agency 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.920 to things like us 00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:34.980 anything that's much bigger or much 00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:39.000 smaller much faster or much slower 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.600 we don't it's very hard for us to use 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.720 words like alive or cognitive or 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:49.380 intelligent agent right and 00:15:49.380 --> 00:15:51.899 um and so I think that's kind of 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:57.779 interesting to just notice that 00:15:57.779 --> 00:16:00.300 yeah those four terms anything much 00:16:00.300 --> 00:16:03.240 bigger like the universe anything much 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:04.500 smaller 00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:07.920 anything much faster like a photon or 00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.260 whatever or anything much slower like a 00:16:10.260 --> 00:16:13.680 mountain you know that actually changes 00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:15.740 um 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:19.079 when we see these photographs like when 00:16:19.079 --> 00:16:22.620 people speed up like the oceans it looks 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:24.000 like the Earth is breathing right so 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.019 anything that's 00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:28.800 but if anything that's slow yeah so this 00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:32.060 isn't also interesting 00:16:34.199 --> 00:16:36.240 and that being that you were talking 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.220 about is composed of all those different 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:39.600 particles 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.540 and that entity works with the nature 00:16:42.540 --> 00:16:45.180 just like uh 00:16:45.180 --> 00:16:47.880 uh when we interact with nature it tells 00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:49.560 all those different layers but it's all 00:16:49.560 --> 00:16:51.540 seamless seamless on both ends down 00:16:51.540 --> 00:16:55.139 inside of us and outside of us 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:57.000 it seems to me what 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:02.240 nice representation inside and outside 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.280 what's interesting for me is it's easy 00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:08.939 for me to assign agency to myself you 00:17:08.939 --> 00:17:10.199 know because it looks like Pond life 00:17:10.199 --> 00:17:11.880 right this is the kind of thing I talk 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:12.540 about 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:14.220 but 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:17.640 when I think of myself as part of a 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.520 compound individual then I don't know 00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:24.179 where to put that boundary is the whole 00:17:24.179 --> 00:17:25.319 Earth 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:26.760 or 00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:31.200 um like I don't think myself I mean and 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:33.900 and the pond and the trees here is a 00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:36.919 compound individual 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:39.419 um but then sometimes I think well maybe 00:17:39.419 --> 00:17:42.720 all of humans is like this now this gets 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.780 very weird to me like moving down is 00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:47.660 easy for me to understand 00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:52.679 but what kinds of collections like I 00:17:52.679 --> 00:17:56.039 could imagine a Galaxy being a compound 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.760 individual 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.220 but I don't think you can just draw any 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:04.620 boundary and say that's a compound 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:07.260 individual and so 00:18:07.260 --> 00:18:11.940 what goes rules are so something is Auto 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.660 auto catalytic sets uh semi-permius 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.140 membrane all these things are uh all 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.660 these definitions are in but 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:23.700 um 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:27.539 yeah yeah yeah you're right 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.120 different out there 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:32.460 see the Earth and the moon could be a 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.860 compound individual and not us in the 00:18:34.860 --> 00:18:38.220 earth it's it's impossible to to figure 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:42.080 out what is the actual 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:45.539 what did you say was the compound 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.960 individual out there the moon and the it 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.820 could be I'm not saying it is 00:18:50.820 --> 00:18:52.980 right I don't know how you would know 00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.539 really oh 00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:58.200 um but for the Sun and the Earth 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.679 um is is even more more believable but 00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:06.000 yeah so so that's that's and of course 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.860 this is tricky like is is 00:19:09.860 --> 00:19:14.039 humanity and Ai and a real compound 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:15.419 individual 00:19:15.419 --> 00:19:17.760 I don't know 00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:18.600 um 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:21.840 what are what are your criteria I don't 00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:23.460 know that's what I'm saying it's like 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:25.980 it's hard to 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:28.919 I mean you discern can we discern 00:19:28.919 --> 00:19:32.400 criteria I don't 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:34.980 well if we take the human as a compound 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.320 individual 00:19:37.320 --> 00:19:38.640 um 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.320 so let's take an animal because it's 00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:43.200 easier because we're like you know like 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.419 so I don't think all 00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:50.700 all 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:52.860 elephants 00:19:52.860 --> 00:19:55.260 on the face of the Earth our compound 00:19:55.260 --> 00:19:57.059 individual 00:19:57.059 --> 00:19:59.640 now some people argue that human 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.059 technology and language is the mechanism 00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:04.380 by which 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:07.919 humans have are growing and then you add 00:20:07.919 --> 00:20:12.660 AI are becoming a compound individual 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.380 that's what uh some people would argue 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:20.000 which means it would have 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.059 it would be served up awareness that's 00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.320 inaccessible to us 00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:29.039 so 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.220 you you we would be doing the serving up 00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.400 uh but it would compound into an 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.380 experience 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:40.679 an awareness of an experience that would 00:20:40.679 --> 00:20:42.660 be inaccessible to us who are doing all 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.880 the heavy heavy lifting right that's how 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.220 my cells feel I do all the heavy lifting 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:51.059 and then she signs the autographs 00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:53.460 you know like a sports a sports 00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.200 celebrity their muscles are like 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.059 complaining we do all the honey living 00:20:57.059 --> 00:20:58.919 and she's signed her name on the 00:20:58.919 --> 00:21:01.260 autograph all right yeah 00:21:01.260 --> 00:21:04.620 something like that so it's it would be 00:21:04.620 --> 00:21:08.460 some kind of identity formation right 00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:11.580 um but I so 00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:13.919 um but some people argue that yes the 00:21:13.919 --> 00:21:18.000 the elephants don't have compounds now 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.780 um 00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:20.940 that a compound individual is different 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.100 than collective intelligence like a pod 00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:26.340 of Dolphins just like humans have 00:21:26.340 --> 00:21:29.460 collective intelligence right we we this 00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:31.740 distributed organs of perception and 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.840 communication 00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:38.480 um yeah so it gets very 00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:44.340 like like so it gets very 00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:47.059 uh 00:21:48.659 --> 00:21:52.100 I think it's very tricky 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:54.360 I think that's something I'm sure I've 00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:56.760 mentioned here before but 00:21:56.760 --> 00:21:58.559 I've been obsessed with this sort of 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.659 since I read it in a book um I don't 00:22:00.659 --> 00:22:02.460 know eight or ten years ago that our 00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:05.039 entire solar system goes up and down in 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.500 the plane of the Galaxy about every 72 00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:10.500 million years now that's really slow but 00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:13.140 I'm convinced that 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:14.760 you know we should be able to experience 00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:17.220 that we're all in it we're all in it and 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:18.900 there's no escaping as long as you're on 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:20.400 this planet 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.840 and there's something about the 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.720 singularity and the motion and what 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.940 drives that motion that I just find 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:29.700 Enchanting for some reason 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:32.880 okay so that's actually a good something 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.720 we we can use because it suggests that 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:38.539 you can 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:41.520 hypothesize compound individuals by some 00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:43.919 kind of rhythmic pattern 00:22:43.919 --> 00:22:47.220 right so so 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:48.179 um 00:22:48.179 --> 00:22:52.280 they share some rhythmicity I would say 00:22:52.280 --> 00:22:54.500 duration and 00:22:54.500 --> 00:22:59.419 rhythmicity so like 00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:06.780 you know this is this is actually very 00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:09.240 interesting because 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.360 um 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.179 yeah so something something like that 00:23:21.179 --> 00:23:23.340 some kind of rhythmic 00:23:23.340 --> 00:23:27.600 pattern that both changes but there's a 00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:29.580 permanence and then there's fluctuations 00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:33.480 right but there's some signature uh 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.860 rhythmicity 00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:38.780 and duration 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.179 so every 72 million years right so this 00:23:42.179 --> 00:23:45.960 is the duration of its stability of its 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:47.580 identity or something like that that's 00:23:47.580 --> 00:23:49.919 interesting 00:23:49.919 --> 00:23:51.780 um it's actually what very close to what 00:23:51.780 --> 00:23:54.799 white had said that 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:01.620 I was in one of the sessions a few weeks 00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:04.799 back before the recap and we were it was 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.659 a common the exact question you asked 00:24:06.659 --> 00:24:07.559 Bonnie 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.260 um we went into breakout groups and it 00:24:10.260 --> 00:24:11.880 was and he said the hymn was you know 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.120 putting the Mind back in the body 00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:17.760 um and like in that we the group I was 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:19.919 in we kind of also went on this kind of 00:24:19.919 --> 00:24:22.200 tangent also kind of looking into like 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.600 it feels really unformed I don't know 00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:26.100 how to put it but something around 00:24:26.100 --> 00:24:28.140 polarity as well 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:30.360 and how yeah a magnet when you you cut 00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:31.860 it in half it doesn't become enough in 00:24:31.860 --> 00:24:33.539 this the South piece but actually 00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.240 there's still that polarity 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.919 on larger and smaller scales 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:45.900 yeah so this word is also it's important 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:49.740 so we're popular in our answer here but 00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:51.960 um and it's it's it's the question of 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.960 decomposability 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.900 um so uh uh uh magnets maximally 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:00.059 decomposable you can keep slicing and 00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:03.200 slicing and it still is a magnet 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.620 plantaria have this too 00:25:07.620 --> 00:25:10.020 um but then this becomes problematic 00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:11.820 with people because 00:25:11.820 --> 00:25:16.280 uh we're not very decomposable 00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:17.100 um 00:25:17.100 --> 00:25:20.460 we can replace our parts but 00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:24.539 were were were so special we're a 00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:26.340 compound individual that's got it's very 00:25:26.340 --> 00:25:27.620 specialized 00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:31.039 and so 00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:35.700 it's hard to yeah so from from so 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:37.799 decomposability has something to do with 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.919 it and 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:44.659 but then 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.960 ah maybe it's the opposite Maybe 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.659 if it's maximally decomposable it's a 00:25:51.659 --> 00:25:54.659 single individual 00:25:54.659 --> 00:25:56.059 I don't know 00:25:56.059 --> 00:25:58.020 decomposability has something to do with 00:25:58.020 --> 00:25:59.520 it but I've never been able to make it 00:25:59.520 --> 00:26:02.159 work lacrosse all 00:26:02.159 --> 00:26:05.179 all cases 00:26:05.340 --> 00:26:07.740 yeah that's interesting 00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.700 the way I kind of came into that oh 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:14.940 no no go right ahead it's just like the 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:16.440 way I came into that thought in that 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.240 session was kind of I think it was 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.340 something about like uh awareness I 00:26:20.340 --> 00:26:22.500 can't remember the exact question 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.279 um 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.080 and I was like how how do I know I'm 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:27.659 aware of something and the the image 00:26:27.659 --> 00:26:29.820 that came to me was like a waveform and 00:26:29.820 --> 00:26:31.200 it's like kind of you know there's that 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.419 point in that point and that's like 00:26:33.419 --> 00:26:35.159 the Peaks and trough is kind of what 00:26:35.159 --> 00:26:38.279 brought me to the the polarity idea it's 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.760 like that 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.220 yeah the range of experience 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.140 yeah I really I haven't got the words 00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:47.460 through it like kind of I haven't been 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:48.900 able to put together but there's 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.360 something that feels like something 00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:54.140 there for me yeah 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.240 so I'll 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.900 talk to the Collective 00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.779 shared experience 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:07.500 um 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:10.860 so so as I watch the 00:27:10.860 --> 00:27:13.940 the image of a human being that is 00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:17.279 comprised of all of these centers of 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:22.140 being and and uh what what comes to me 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:24.539 is that we're a compositive shared 00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:27.779 subjectivities but there's all these you 00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:28.919 know 00:27:28.919 --> 00:27:33.480 sources of uh action and choice inside 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.580 of us and 00:27:35.580 --> 00:27:37.140 um and 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:41.039 so we come from this all this these 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.860 components live in the universe and then 00:27:43.860 --> 00:27:45.900 for some reason they have 00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:49.440 come into a centralized organization in 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.159 terms of a human and but but and maybe 00:27:53.159 --> 00:27:56.820 in the Aboriginal before modern man we 00:27:56.820 --> 00:27:58.100 continue to 00:27:58.100 --> 00:28:01.380 disengage from that awareness of being 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:05.000 part of this vast field of 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.679 subjectivities and become more and more 00:28:07.679 --> 00:28:09.179 isolated from it so that we no longer 00:28:09.179 --> 00:28:11.760 identify and maybe part of then and but 00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.260 becoming more and more distinct as 00:28:13.260 --> 00:28:16.799 individuals and then now maybe and even 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.679 in the images you showed that that from 00:28:19.679 --> 00:28:20.880 there 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.520 we wake up again and maybe also through 00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:25.200 our science and through meditation 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.200 practices and we start to realize oh I 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.659 I'm not seeing the meadow because I just 00:28:30.659 --> 00:28:33.299 have a a thought that the met you know 00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:34.860 that the meta was something outside of 00:28:34.860 --> 00:28:36.299 me but it's because there's some 00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:40.580 something in me that is already a meadow 00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:44.820 that is in relationship to Meadow 00:28:44.820 --> 00:28:48.740 or that is Meadow in a continuous form 00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:52.320 and so I was thinking like 00:28:52.320 --> 00:28:54.500 foreign 00:28:55.919 --> 00:28:58.080 when you said what is a compound 00:28:58.080 --> 00:29:00.539 individual and what are the criteria in 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:02.760 that so I thought I came I had was 00:29:02.760 --> 00:29:05.940 shared subjectivities that are somehow 00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:09.539 there's so there's a dance between 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:11.520 the multi 00:29:11.520 --> 00:29:12.980 uh 00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:15.900 multiplicity that I am 00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:19.260 and the organization in my own awareness 00:29:19.260 --> 00:29:21.779 Consciousness which hopefully been 00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:25.980 opens back into and participates with 00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:30.059 the um the shared complexity or 00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:31.380 Multiplicity 00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:35.120 and then uh 00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:39.120 um consciously Interactive 00:29:39.120 --> 00:29:42.020 subjectivities 00:29:44.520 --> 00:29:46.700 I wrote that and I don't remember what 00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:50.880 why I wrote that but 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.500 um 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.960 So when you say you know the compound 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.260 individual that there's rhythmic 00:29:58.260 --> 00:29:59.940 patterns 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:05.159 duration and and uh rhythmicity that's 00:30:05.159 --> 00:30:07.140 um 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:09.240 that's movement 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.100 and uh 00:30:11.100 --> 00:30:15.380 effect and time and space 00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:20.580 and aliveness 00:30:20.580 --> 00:30:22.679 and I don't know where awareness comes 00:30:22.679 --> 00:30:24.799 in 00:30:27.179 --> 00:30:30.419 but it feels like you know you know when 00:30:30.419 --> 00:30:33.240 they say when you become aware of 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:33.910 something 00:30:33.910 --> 00:30:35.640 [Music] 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.100 it becomes self-aware even even 00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:39.960 something that's not 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:41.880 what we think of is something that would 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.460 be self-aware but that that almost 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:46.860 imbuing awareness 00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:51.179 onto things by recognizing their their 00:30:51.179 --> 00:30:54.080 own uh 00:30:54.179 --> 00:30:57.179 subjectivity somehow 00:30:57.179 --> 00:30:59.580 so that's a whole bunch of 00:30:59.580 --> 00:31:00.179 um 00:31:00.179 --> 00:31:02.820 unrelated or not this dispersal 00:31:02.820 --> 00:31:04.740 dispersed thoughts that I have that's 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:07.860 all I can say in the moment 00:31:07.860 --> 00:31:11.000 good thoughts 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.340 yeah 00:31:16.340 --> 00:31:18.840 no go ahead 00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:21.360 I just had this thought when uh Phoebe 00:31:21.360 --> 00:31:23.100 was talking 00:31:23.100 --> 00:31:24.299 that 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.899 the mind as it we have developed it into 00:31:27.899 --> 00:31:30.360 it's not an evolutionary mistake it's 00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:32.399 something's going on there and I just 00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:34.940 wondered if 00:31:34.940 --> 00:31:39.059 that the purpose of it is peaked in its 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:40.860 oscillation and putting the Mind back 00:31:40.860 --> 00:31:42.960 into the body as we're returning towards 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:47.220 as part of an oscillation 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:50.580 that's what aurobindo thought 00:31:50.580 --> 00:31:53.340 you know his Descent of spirit 00:31:53.340 --> 00:31:55.620 um had that overtones to 00:31:55.620 --> 00:31:59.279 translated like that but he wasn't I 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:01.440 don't think he was he was this was a 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.179 whole Vision he had so it wasn't just 00:32:03.179 --> 00:32:04.980 about humans 00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:07.140 taking 00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:09.720 spirit and descending it it was more 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:11.760 like what you just said that the whole 00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:14.940 Spirit itself has this oscillation where 00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.100 it's like the it's like the lake turning 00:32:17.100 --> 00:32:19.159 over in the winter or the summer or 00:32:19.159 --> 00:32:21.600 whenever it turns over 00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:25.080 no yeah that's a beautiful that's a 00:32:25.080 --> 00:32:26.399 beautiful insight 00:32:26.399 --> 00:32:28.799 I'm not a um 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.659 or have been no 00:32:30.659 --> 00:32:32.580 um expert by any means but I've read a 00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:33.960 bunch of stuff 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.000 and the way I took some of which I 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.220 really loved basically is he basically 00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:40.140 he says something like 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:42.679 matter is 00:32:42.679 --> 00:32:46.440 concrete confined Joy 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:49.080 and that part of what we are doing is we 00:32:49.080 --> 00:32:51.600 are reaching into the depths of that to 00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:55.320 release the joy into its own freedom to 00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:57.240 be enjoyed 00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.580 and I like that isolation process of 00:32:59.580 --> 00:33:02.700 going down into what we might call pain 00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:05.340 find and releasing it so that it becomes 00:33:05.340 --> 00:33:07.559 a joy that it once was before was 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.299 contracted and hidden 00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:10.980 that's one of the 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.140 views that I took for more ability that 00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:15.679 I still love 00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:21.120 that takes into consideration a temporal 00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:25.200 framework that is bigger than what we 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:26.700 normally think oh people are going to 00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:29.640 die species in Europe you know I love 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.980 this that that you anything that happens 00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:35.340 that that really macrocosmic scale I I 00:33:35.340 --> 00:33:38.580 think we can assume has much longer 00:33:38.580 --> 00:33:40.740 temporal Frameworks even the species 00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:43.200 Evolution has a much longer temporal 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.019 framework and it's hard for people to 00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:48.740 to 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.159 it's hard for that to be as real for 00:33:53.159 --> 00:33:55.740 people as you know the the normal cycle 00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:58.620 of maybe one or two generations 00:33:58.620 --> 00:34:02.179 um but it's really this question of 00:34:02.399 --> 00:34:05.460 and yet what is this larger thing 00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:08.220 that is moving 00:34:08.220 --> 00:34:10.859 um yeah that's that's beautiful thank 00:34:10.859 --> 00:34:12.060 you 00:34:12.060 --> 00:34:15.240 see one thing I like that 00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:17.820 think that I'm practicing is having 00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:21.419 these longer wavelength experiences and 00:34:21.419 --> 00:34:23.220 then bringing them into the body so my 00:34:23.220 --> 00:34:25.560 body doesn't freak out you know sort of 00:34:25.560 --> 00:34:27.899 it's like the range from which I can 00:34:27.899 --> 00:34:29.940 move from the longest to the shortest 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.879 and be fluid and be able to move along 00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:37.679 that Spectrum as I widen it uh seems to 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.899 be a project of mine 00:34:39.899 --> 00:34:42.839 yeah but that's the point right because 00:34:42.839 --> 00:34:44.460 because when you're aware of your body 00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:47.359 or aware of that 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.899 because you're saying fundamentally on 00:34:51.899 --> 00:34:55.139 this I feel as if I mean rationalizing 00:34:55.139 --> 00:34:56.820 it doesn't work but if you get to the 00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:58.680 point that your practice makes you feel 00:34:58.680 --> 00:35:03.780 like fundamentally you're these long 00:35:03.859 --> 00:35:07.140 Cosmic rhythms 00:35:07.140 --> 00:35:09.480 and that feels like 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.380 your body 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.579 then you know that's that's Joy I would 00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:18.359 say 00:35:18.359 --> 00:35:19.859 because you always have this little 00:35:19.859 --> 00:35:24.060 terror right this little terror of 00:35:24.060 --> 00:35:25.440 uh 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.079 little terror of confusion 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:30.240 the little house of Terror the little 00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:32.339 terror of confusion 00:35:32.339 --> 00:35:35.579 of why 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:39.119 how can it be so meaningful 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.040 and so 00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:44.520 temporal finite at the same time this is 00:35:44.520 --> 00:35:46.920 this is a little confusion I have 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.800 noticed that my notion of feeling stable 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.140 and feeling unstable oscillates quite a 00:35:52.140 --> 00:35:54.560 lot too 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.880 I want to bring into uh Alexander 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:04.800 byner's work on the bigger picture I 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.060 think it was something that you were 00:36:06.060 --> 00:36:07.920 referring to a little bit Bonnie where 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.320 people are looking at it as one larger 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.839 entity out there this is his work on the 00:36:12.839 --> 00:36:16.020 psychedelics uh he's the co-founder of 00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:17.579 Rebel wisdom 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:20.220 and um I haven't read it all but I'm in 00:36:20.220 --> 00:36:21.720 a zoom call with four other people 00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:25.859 weekly no bi-weekly or my bi-monthly and 00:36:25.859 --> 00:36:28.140 uh one of them says he doesn't buy into 00:36:28.140 --> 00:36:31.680 it being one big entity that we are 00:36:31.680 --> 00:36:33.660 but it seems like minor might be 00:36:33.660 --> 00:36:36.119 referring a little bit to that from his 00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.060 uh psychedelic testing man it's I think 00:36:39.060 --> 00:36:40.980 it's intense testing 00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:42.839 uh I just wanted to throw that in 00:36:42.839 --> 00:36:44.700 because that's some of the group I think 00:36:44.700 --> 00:36:46.680 you're referring to that looking at it 00:36:46.680 --> 00:36:50.180 as one entity out there 00:36:51.540 --> 00:36:54.420 and then that joy and that stimulations 00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:56.880 out into it I mean we you know the sun 00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.099 is a star the stars are out there the 00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:01.940 galaxies 00:37:02.220 --> 00:37:04.140 who knows 00:37:04.140 --> 00:37:06.660 but it is fascinating things uh this 00:37:06.660 --> 00:37:09.680 conversation this morning 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.359 and so I feel it in like moments of like 00:37:12.359 --> 00:37:13.800 what we call like synchronicity right 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.300 where it kind of feels like you know if 00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.760 you imagine that your body is constantly 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.380 synchronizing all these different like 00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:20.760 different cells different things are 00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.859 kind of moving with these larger 00:37:22.859 --> 00:37:24.599 patterns and sometimes it's like see 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:26.940 something kind of Flow by and all these 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:28.980 things connect I get like a lot yeah and 00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:30.960 like kind of while traveling also like 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.400 can I mentioned like we've had 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.920 psychedelic experiences as well but also 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:36.780 I find it interesting that it happens a 00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.339 lot when I travel you know it's like 00:37:38.339 --> 00:37:41.040 when I'm not in my usual pattern I'm 00:37:41.040 --> 00:37:42.540 like kind of moving around meeting all 00:37:42.540 --> 00:37:43.619 different kinds of people and kind of 00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:45.180 just really going with with loads of 00:37:45.180 --> 00:37:47.220 things rather than a like a rigid 00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:48.720 schedule 00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:51.300 and just like yeah so if those are those 00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:53.460 moments where it does kind of feel like 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:56.480 a larger body 00:37:56.520 --> 00:38:00.119 that's exactly how I live my life and 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.160 um using you know a Deepak tropical 00:38:02.160 --> 00:38:04.619 simple destiny using intentions and 00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:06.720 using the synchronicities to be guided 00:38:06.720 --> 00:38:09.359 by but at the same time 00:38:09.359 --> 00:38:09.960 um 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.200 I just lost my train of thought but uh 00:38:13.200 --> 00:38:16.079 but yeah 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.540 um anyway I like what you just said 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.800 sorry John were you were you saying no 00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.720 not me yeah this this intention thing 00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:32.040 um 00:38:32.040 --> 00:38:34.980 you know I don't yeah can we use that to 00:38:34.980 --> 00:38:37.140 help us kind of Define what and 00:38:37.140 --> 00:38:38.820 you know the boundary of what we're 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:40.859 talking about but 00:38:40.859 --> 00:38:41.760 um 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.940 and maybe it's in the imaginal but 00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:47.940 I sometimes wonder whether there is this 00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:51.359 you know this this intentionality 00:38:51.359 --> 00:38:53.880 um in the world around me 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:55.260 um 00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:58.440 that well I mean at some level there 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.000 totally is I mean it feels like every 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.680 plant wants to kind of 00:39:01.680 --> 00:39:05.460 grow and express itself and 00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:08.040 um you know increase itself and and and 00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:10.920 all of this and who knows what the cause 00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:13.020 and effect is when I kind of look at it 00:39:13.020 --> 00:39:15.540 you know so it's all interpenetrating 00:39:15.540 --> 00:39:18.060 but you know I can't shake this this 00:39:18.060 --> 00:39:20.040 kind of you know this this this this 00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:22.200 feeling that this Attunement that that 00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:27.420 that we can feel is kind of you know 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:30.839 with with an intentionality that's not 00:39:30.839 --> 00:39:32.460 just mine right 00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:34.260 um and so I don't know how that kind of 00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:36.240 fits with it maybe this is 00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:38.220 you know I'm sort of taking it from a 00:39:38.220 --> 00:39:40.500 different a different angle 00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:42.480 um 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.780 but I'm sure I think that's reasonable 00:39:44.780 --> 00:39:47.220 yeah you just 00:39:47.220 --> 00:39:49.859 I mean I love it when I when I notice it 00:39:49.859 --> 00:39:51.839 um and 00:39:51.839 --> 00:39:54.000 you know and then then you know then I 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.680 think this probably isn't the imaginal 00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:58.320 realm I don't know but then then you you 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.240 almost 00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:02.040 you you almost 00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:03.240 um 00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:04.800 that the world starts kind of doing 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.140 everything 00:40:07.140 --> 00:40:08.880 um and so then it is the intention of 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.020 the world 00:40:10.020 --> 00:40:12.839 and not yours right uh so I don't know I 00:40:12.839 --> 00:40:14.940 mean maybe this is just the porosity of 00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:17.280 the the boundaries that you're trying to 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.200 draw but 00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.700 um Bonita 00:40:20.700 --> 00:40:22.380 but um 00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:24.540 and it seems that it shifts right so it 00:40:24.540 --> 00:40:26.160 just takes a different shape depending 00:40:26.160 --> 00:40:28.859 kind of of where you put your attention 00:40:28.859 --> 00:40:31.380 and where you participate so you know 00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:32.460 we're trying to draw a line around 00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:35.040 something that just is moving so much 00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:38.339 but but you know sometimes you use this 00:40:38.339 --> 00:40:41.400 kind of phrasing um Bonita which is that 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:45.260 we have this feeling of 00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:48.180 well this feeling of I'm going to use 00:40:48.180 --> 00:40:50.220 the word intentionality 00:40:50.220 --> 00:40:52.980 seems to me because there is a something 00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:54.900 a bigger intentionality whatever a 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:57.359 bigger will that we're participating 00:40:57.359 --> 00:41:01.940 with but um yeah who knows right 00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:05.820 that's how interesting uh but I think we 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:07.740 have a lot of autonomy in it from our 00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:10.440 own intentions somebody else that it 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:11.940 doesn't have intentions are just 00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:14.280 following along as a sheeple 00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:16.200 and uh 00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:19.020 also what I was saying what I'm what I 00:41:19.020 --> 00:41:21.119 forgot to say is that this course 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.980 bringing the Mind into the body and the 00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:24.359 body and the nature I've been listening 00:41:24.359 --> 00:41:26.220 to everyone's conversations 00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:29.579 is a really fine-tuned things uh for me 00:41:29.579 --> 00:41:32.940 to uh utilize Synchro Destiny so much 00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:35.339 more effectively and I don't think I 00:41:35.339 --> 00:41:38.820 would have been where I am right now uh 00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:41.520 in my path if it had been for this 00:41:41.520 --> 00:41:44.240 course because it simplified the 00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:48.599 complexity of my erratic mind 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:52.859 but uh I think uh I don't know one man 00:41:52.859 --> 00:41:55.500 said on my call says uh you know we have 00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:58.500 we can't give up totally autonomy within 00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:02.760 this bigger picture well uh what mine or 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:04.740 seems to be saying is we are this one 00:42:04.740 --> 00:42:06.720 big entity and so then we tend to give 00:42:06.720 --> 00:42:09.960 up this uh individuality so 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:13.320 very interesting points 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:16.859 okay so I actually this was pinging back 00:42:16.859 --> 00:42:18.540 on to Phoebe and I couldn't remember 00:42:18.540 --> 00:42:20.940 what it was bringing up and then I 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:23.460 remembered what I was trying my memory 00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:26.640 was trying to remember for me 00:42:26.640 --> 00:42:28.560 um and I remembered it was in this book 00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:30.000 this notebook 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.500 so 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.099 um 00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:36.839 uh so if you imagine you know a bow tie 00:42:36.839 --> 00:42:39.300 like a bow tie okay and in the middle 00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:41.700 there like imagine a dot in the middle 00:42:41.700 --> 00:42:44.700 and then two white cones going out this 00:42:44.700 --> 00:42:47.820 is the bow tie okay 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:51.480 and on this side there is 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.200 uh 00:42:55.579 --> 00:42:58.319 multiple initial States because we have 00:42:58.319 --> 00:43:01.260 to remember that all these sub agents in 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.339 US 00:43:02.339 --> 00:43:04.619 they don't just have our history but 00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:07.560 like the bacteria have an evolutionary 00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:09.599 history that's a different branch and 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.839 the and the different 00:43:11.839 --> 00:43:14.460 cells have different you know so it's 00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:17.220 not just the every time you 00:43:17.220 --> 00:43:19.859 every time you pick a scale the scale of 00:43:19.859 --> 00:43:21.359 human then we see our evolutionary 00:43:21.359 --> 00:43:24.540 history but if you pick the scale of 00:43:24.540 --> 00:43:28.800 um the mitochondria in our cells uh it 00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.700 goes way back way before and so we have 00:43:32.700 --> 00:43:36.180 so this cone on this side is all those 00:43:36.180 --> 00:43:39.119 multiple initial States 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.119 the dot in the middle is me the human 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:44.640 the agent the compound individual but 00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:48.359 there's this whole 00:43:48.359 --> 00:43:51.000 coming together in this in this 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.760 Singularity this is what an agent is 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.920 this is singularity so you have like 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.380 these multiple initial States 00:43:58.380 --> 00:44:02.400 even for iron let's say the thing in the 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.280 middle is just the molecule the atom the 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:06.780 element iron 00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:09.240 it has to go I forget how it is you get 00:44:09.240 --> 00:44:11.460 these initial stars and then they have 00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:13.260 to smash into each other at certain 00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:15.599 Heats and then the heavier elements 00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.839 arise so it's Evolution comes from all 00:44:18.839 --> 00:44:21.780 these multiple complex initial States 00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:23.579 right 00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:26.339 in multiple so maybe it's all about time 00:44:26.339 --> 00:44:29.579 so multiple complex initial States as 00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:32.940 Justin was are moving toward multiple 00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:37.040 future potential States 00:44:38.220 --> 00:44:41.220 and what an agent is in this flow is 00:44:41.220 --> 00:44:44.160 it's a transducer 00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:47.060 so when the multiple possible 00:44:47.060 --> 00:44:50.700 multiple initial States 00:44:50.700 --> 00:44:53.640 um hit this Singularity called Bonnie 00:44:53.640 --> 00:44:56.160 if something else comes out the 00:44:56.160 --> 00:45:02.400 trajectories are now no longer uh 00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:07.500 isomorphic they they become lensed and 00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:09.440 then now they've changed the 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:11.400 trajectories of everything that's 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.400 involved is changed so on this side you 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:15.359 have 00:45:15.359 --> 00:45:18.359 the agent is a singularity emerging from 00:45:18.359 --> 00:45:21.839 many possible previous States 00:45:21.839 --> 00:45:24.359 from which many possible future States 00:45:24.359 --> 00:45:28.020 emerging and the Agents is 00:45:28.020 --> 00:45:30.839 why it's not just the Flux Of Time the 00:45:30.839 --> 00:45:33.900 flow of time but the Flux Of 00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:35.579 creation 00:45:35.579 --> 00:45:37.560 what do you think 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:39.660 it's good enough for government work 00:45:39.660 --> 00:45:42.020 yeah I like it 00:45:42.020 --> 00:45:45.920 theory of reality 00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:50.460 it relates to uh thing Deepak Chopra has 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:53.880 designed and is like a bow tie but one 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:59.160 funnel is goes goes uh uh body-minded 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:01.500 spirit body-minded Spirit on one side 00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:04.200 and then our soul is to enter into the 00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:07.260 other side Soul then Collective Soul and 00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:12.300 then on out there so well okay so this 00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:14.700 is an interesting question because 00:46:14.700 --> 00:46:17.940 my thing is two-dimensional but the 00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:20.520 points themselves may have this kind of 00:46:20.520 --> 00:46:21.920 dimension 00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:25.560 uh and I would say the points and those 00:46:25.560 --> 00:46:27.599 would be like singularities like Simone 00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:31.680 done and Whitehead and 00:46:31.680 --> 00:46:34.859 yeah that's it I'm seeing it like if it 00:46:34.859 --> 00:46:37.079 was 3D or if it was 2D like loads of 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.839 different size circles and then like a 00:46:39.839 --> 00:46:41.460 point where they all meet but then you 00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:42.780 could like kind of have that sort of as 00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:44.579 a sphere as well because like you know 00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.619 with what Claudia was saying earlier 00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:49.319 around the yeah it also does feel like 00:46:49.319 --> 00:46:51.540 multiple you know it's not just like one 00:46:51.540 --> 00:46:54.180 kind of agent I I when I first kind of 00:46:54.180 --> 00:46:56.099 became aware of it I was like oh cool 00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:58.200 this is like kind of it's guiding the 00:46:58.200 --> 00:47:00.780 way right but then kind of late it was 00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:02.099 like 00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:05.339 uh they were kind of multiple sometimes 00:47:05.339 --> 00:47:07.800 they're conflicting you know and like 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.560 you do have agency of like kind of what 00:47:10.560 --> 00:47:12.119 you want to kind of give your energy to 00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:14.760 I I notice it a lot in my time in 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.740 Nigeria actually 00:47:16.740 --> 00:47:18.180 um and then traveling back and forth 00:47:18.180 --> 00:47:20.099 into different and you're kind of going 00:47:20.099 --> 00:47:22.020 over different places like I think again 00:47:22.020 --> 00:47:25.740 it shifts you out of um 00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:27.780 yeah just I guess they have their 00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:29.339 rhythms to it right and like kind of you 00:47:29.339 --> 00:47:31.440 can easily kind of get caught and just 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:33.300 go in the Rhythm 00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:35.339 then things that sort of jolt you out of 00:47:35.339 --> 00:47:38.640 it give you capacity to kind of uh it's 00:47:38.640 --> 00:47:41.040 like having bifocal uh like kind of 00:47:41.040 --> 00:47:42.599 vision right and like kind of gives you 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.099 more depth Clarity to it 00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:49.380 maybe our the bacteria is in charge 00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:52.079 right or the iron particles are in 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:53.280 charge 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.339 well learn marvelous said that bacteria 00:47:56.339 --> 00:47:58.859 were in charge that 00:47:58.859 --> 00:48:01.680 that we were just temporary forms in 00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:04.040 this huge 00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:07.859 microcosmic micro Cosmos of single cell 00:48:07.859 --> 00:48:09.599 organisms I spent the there's this 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.960 YouTube channel called the micro Cosmos 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.900 I think I might have shown you some 00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:19.319 some things from there and 00:48:19.319 --> 00:48:22.440 I spent I spent a lot of time looking at 00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.200 them thinking like what are you what do 00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:27.780 you little things doing in that that 00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:31.260 adds up to like action 00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:33.480 I did read once that there are more 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.880 bacteria on the planet than all other 00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.160 organic material combined which is 00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.260 pretty mind-boggling 00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.780 but the difference that I'm noting when 00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:45.720 I was listening here is that 00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:48.960 as a human the range of what we can 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:51.960 attend to is way broader than any other 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.839 animal thus the impact of our choices 00:48:54.839 --> 00:48:56.579 and the possibility of being creative 00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:59.819 within that is immensely magnified so 00:48:59.819 --> 00:49:01.680 your little bow tie we have many more 00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:03.660 options coming in even though we're 00:49:03.660 --> 00:49:05.460 influenced by the environment completely 00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:07.859 and many poor possibilities going out 00:49:07.859 --> 00:49:09.720 yeah 00:49:09.720 --> 00:49:12.240 I I just want to add it sounds to me 00:49:12.240 --> 00:49:14.460 like the pop-up School your bow tie 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:15.420 Theory 00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:19.380 you pull it you place your your thumb up 00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:21.000 is the thing in the middle people come 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:24.480 in and then they pop out and then but 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:28.380 specifically Bonnie your 00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:32.819 um initial States bringing the tune 00:49:32.819 --> 00:49:36.060 we arrive in the middle as an agent and 00:49:36.060 --> 00:49:40.859 the transducer the music turns into some 00:49:40.859 --> 00:49:45.140 kind of weird potential state 00:49:46.380 --> 00:49:48.960 well actually that's that's kind of you 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.460 know like people complain because I'm 00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:52.260 not prescriptive and I don't say well 00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:55.619 then you should do this or I mean and 00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:57.839 and basically oh I had that's what it 00:49:57.839 --> 00:49:59.460 was years ago I had this argument with 00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:00.960 Zack Stein and I said the difference 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.660 between you and me it's like you have a 00:50:03.660 --> 00:50:06.540 moral Cannon and and you have it all 00:50:06.540 --> 00:50:08.460 worked out and I just want to inject 00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:10.680 novelty into the system because to me 00:50:10.680 --> 00:50:13.020 it's like like it's just we don't know 00:50:13.020 --> 00:50:15.000 what to do but can we just change the 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.160 shape of our bodies or some do something 00:50:17.160 --> 00:50:20.520 that's not in the same Groove 00:50:20.520 --> 00:50:21.440 um 00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:26.280 because I I I I I believe that the the 00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.440 potential is latent in the system and 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.980 it's the habit and the groove uh that 00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:34.500 can potentially suck the energy out of 00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:35.579 it you know 00:50:35.579 --> 00:50:38.720 and yeah 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:41.579 as I said I told this joke to you before 00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:44.819 but at one of the graduations of one of 00:50:44.819 --> 00:50:46.619 the cohorts the mother was looking at 00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:49.140 her child who seemed to be headed for a 00:50:49.140 --> 00:50:51.839 life of crime and poverty and I said 00:50:51.839 --> 00:50:53.760 well we promise to make them different 00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.280 we don't promise to make them better 00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:58.700 foreign 00:51:02.240 --> 00:51:05.040 this is our slogan transformational 00:51:05.040 --> 00:51:07.740 education we promise to make you 00:51:07.740 --> 00:51:10.020 different we don't promise to make you 00:51:10.020 --> 00:51:12.319 better 00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:15.420 so I just want to come in with um I was 00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:17.280 very stirred by um 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:19.260 uh Justin 00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:22.920 tuning into the slowest you know deepest 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:26.880 vibration and continuing your reach in 00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.400 terms of what's perceptible and what 00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:33.780 what can I actually in my being 00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:36.900 participate in on some level and then 00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:38.700 and then the other side potentially of 00:51:38.700 --> 00:51:41.520 the cone is how can I participate on 00:51:41.520 --> 00:51:45.059 these micro levels and have that that be 00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:47.520 and it feels like maybe part of the of 00:51:47.520 --> 00:51:50.760 the project of Consciousness which is 00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.540 putting in very 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:57.180 um structured words is 00:51:57.180 --> 00:51:58.980 holding 00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:03.720 to use your word Claudia intentionality 00:52:03.720 --> 00:52:04.800 um 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:08.760 in a in a broad spectrum 00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:12.359 so that each at each 00:52:12.359 --> 00:52:13.880 vibrational 00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:16.680 manifestation maybe can be 00:52:16.680 --> 00:52:20.880 also true and also true and also true 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:25.260 or also alive or something but but 00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:27.260 um 00:52:30.180 --> 00:52:35.160 I I I feel deeply stirred by 00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:39.619 the possibility that I can hold 00:52:41.540 --> 00:52:43.440 Way Beyond 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:48.420 somehow and it's not up to me to be able 00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:52.319 to do that I think on my own devices 00:52:52.319 --> 00:52:55.559 I wouldn't be able to do that and so 00:52:55.559 --> 00:53:00.839 it's how do I not be me in such a way 00:53:00.839 --> 00:53:01.920 that 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.200 what else is there 00:53:04.200 --> 00:53:07.460 I can experience 00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:20.099 when I share a little section of a poem 00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:21.900 that's come into mind 00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:24.500 foreign 00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:35.099 family community Lovers and Friends 00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:38.640 a biosphere so near indeed smiling sun 00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:40.579 and ocean tears 00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:43.260 microbiome Melodies gyrating golden 00:53:43.260 --> 00:53:45.660 galaxies 00:53:45.660 --> 00:53:48.359 neutral co-arising is the name of the 00:53:48.359 --> 00:53:49.559 game 00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:53.400 I am no Island nor an isolated brain 00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.400 embodied as FaceTime mixing mythical 00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:01.319 space rhymes the self sings with silence 00:54:01.319 --> 00:54:05.880 grateful for how Grace shines 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.420 can I ask you to say to read it again 00:54:09.420 --> 00:54:13.819 and but I want everyone 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.020 to 00:54:15.020 --> 00:54:19.260 hear that the eye that is talking is the 00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:23.240 Ultimate Compound individual God 00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:28.980 I am who I am 00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:32.220 to the webs that I swim 00:54:32.220 --> 00:54:34.859 family communities 00:54:34.859 --> 00:54:37.680 Lovers and Friends 00:54:37.680 --> 00:54:41.640 a biosphere so near indeed 00:54:41.640 --> 00:54:45.260 smiling sun and ocean tears 00:54:45.260 --> 00:54:48.180 microbiome Melodies gyrating golden 00:54:48.180 --> 00:54:50.880 galaxies 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:54.000 Mutual co-arising is the name of the 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.800 game 00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.020 I am no Island 00:54:58.020 --> 00:55:01.440 you know an isolated brain 00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:04.140 embodied at space-time 00:55:04.140 --> 00:55:08.700 mixing mythical space rhymes 00:55:08.700 --> 00:55:12.900 this self sings with silence 00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:17.300 grateful for how Grace shines 00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:34.079 this was great hearing us at the second 00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.260 time with this invitation within a just 00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:39.240 I I just like to just have to see like 00:55:39.240 --> 00:55:41.099 before this this picture of a mobile 00:55:41.099 --> 00:55:44.520 strip come also you know this band this 00:55:44.520 --> 00:55:46.680 trip where you have this twist inside 00:55:46.680 --> 00:55:50.520 like this is also like just um 00:55:50.520 --> 00:55:52.500 like the like the thing you you 00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:55.740 mentioned yeah 00:55:55.740 --> 00:55:57.540 yeah it reminds me of something you once 00:55:57.540 --> 00:55:59.940 said Barney about truth sense 00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:03.920 there's a truth sense about that color 00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:13.140 there's also something 00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:15.359 extremely 00:56:15.359 --> 00:56:16.980 precious 00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:19.700 because 00:56:19.859 --> 00:56:21.900 Stevie was saying well when you walk in 00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:24.780 the middle the meadow is walking in 00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:27.119 itself kind of thing and that all 00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:30.110 prompted me thinking that 00:56:30.110 --> 00:56:31.260 [Music] 00:56:31.260 --> 00:56:33.780 um well that 00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:35.080 yeah 00:56:35.080 --> 00:56:36.960 [Music] 00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.540 so when you think of it as God saying 00:56:39.540 --> 00:56:42.420 that it's obviously that God is saying 00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:44.960 that because 00:56:46.859 --> 00:56:49.260 that's the mobile strip I think that 00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:52.260 yeah 00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:56.059 but um 00:56:59.220 --> 00:57:01.980 I might have to use that as the as the 00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:04.680 you know when you write a book and then 00:57:04.680 --> 00:57:07.200 there's one page that hasn't quote 00:57:07.200 --> 00:57:10.150 so my book The Once and Future God 00:57:10.150 --> 00:57:14.670 [Music] 00:57:14.670 --> 00:57:16.240 [Applause] 00:57:16.240 --> 00:57:19.390 [Music] 00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:26.300 hey welcome to all right God AKA JJ 00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:33.720 the god in the room instead of the 00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:35.700 elephant in the room this is interesting 00:57:35.700 --> 00:57:38.700 question so yeah like when you're doing 00:57:38.700 --> 00:57:40.500 like Collective inside practice or 00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:42.240 Collective presencing and people like oh 00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:44.880 there's an Elephant Room you could say 00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:48.440 where's the god in the room 00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:00.780 you know I just want to bring back the 00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:03.800 idea of flash mob 00:58:03.800 --> 00:58:06.980 and uh 00:58:07.319 --> 00:58:09.420 whatever we were talking about 00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:10.280 um 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:13.819 compounding division 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.960 and the joy 00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:24.500 the joy of being part of something 00:58:24.500 --> 00:58:26.760 moving differently 00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:29.420 through 00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:33.000 all of these distinct in this case 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.740 humans 00:58:34.740 --> 00:58:37.020 um and maybe more maybe butterflies and 00:58:37.020 --> 00:58:39.299 whatever else is there 00:58:39.299 --> 00:58:40.079 um 00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:44.819 and yet moving together with a shared 00:58:44.819 --> 00:58:45.960 um 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.119 a shared Joy 00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.119 than a shared 00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:54.599 attentiveness and maybe a shared sense 00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.440 of writing a purpose that is bigger than 00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:02.059 than I personally than my subjectivity 00:59:02.059 --> 00:59:06.059 can compose 00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:20.339 I mean there's so there's a flash mod 00:59:20.339 --> 00:59:22.799 going on inside us already isn't there 00:59:22.799 --> 00:59:24.540 so before we 00:59:24.540 --> 00:59:26.640 kind of flash mob between people there's 00:59:26.640 --> 00:59:30.619 one going on inside us 00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:32.940 you know there's a convivial Society 00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:35.240 isn't there already 00:59:35.240 --> 00:59:38.339 going on inside us 00:59:38.339 --> 00:59:40.460 um 00:59:40.680 --> 00:59:44.280 yeah I can get out of the way that is 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:46.260 yeah well even if you don't have to you 00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:48.240 know it's kind of the you know my livers 00:59:48.240 --> 00:59:50.040 all the cells there are being at the 00:59:50.040 --> 00:59:52.440 moment convivial with each other or 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.319 Flash mobbing 00:59:55.319 --> 00:59:57.720 so yeah how yeah 00:59:57.720 --> 01:00:01.520 what they're following a rhythm 01:00:02.040 --> 01:00:04.160 um 01:00:04.740 --> 01:00:06.900 yeah what does Michael Levin say in 01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:09.780 Morpher space right or something what 01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:11.579 does that mean 01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:14.280 no no immune system too you know they're 01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:16.020 just killing and then something happens 01:00:16.020 --> 01:00:18.980 they're like shh 01:00:20.520 --> 01:00:22.380 they all meet up 01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:27.440 beat up things usually but that's okay 01:00:40.859 --> 01:00:43.700 Bonnie earlier you said 01:00:43.700 --> 01:00:47.940 beings as causal agents at another scale 01:00:47.940 --> 01:00:50.520 of reality 01:00:50.520 --> 01:00:54.720 so how does that relate to this 01:00:54.720 --> 01:00:57.359 fleshing out of compound 01:00:57.359 --> 01:01:00.079 beings 01:01:06.299 --> 01:01:08.880 so 01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:12.720 one way in which people humans have 01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:15.299 always assigned 01:01:15.299 --> 01:01:18.780 agency to or some kind of spirit or 01:01:18.780 --> 01:01:23.880 intention is is by their cause causal 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:29.280 properties right so the the 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:33.059 you know people the animists think that 01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:36.260 the weather patterns like the the 01:01:36.260 --> 01:01:39.059 tornado is actually a being 01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:42.720 because it has causal properties 01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:45.599 um and the mountain is a being because 01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:49.859 it has causal properties I mean it it 01:01:49.859 --> 01:01:52.400 is responsible for how the weather 01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:55.380 accumulates up there and I mean and here 01:01:55.380 --> 01:01:57.420 we can actually say causal properties is 01:01:57.420 --> 01:02:00.299 just transduction right that things go 01:02:00.299 --> 01:02:02.220 in and they're different when they bump 01:02:02.220 --> 01:02:06.799 into something so it's some kind of 01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:11.579 transduction pattern let's say so 01:02:11.579 --> 01:02:13.559 um a magnet 01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:16.500 seems like a being because it attracts 01:02:16.500 --> 01:02:23.359 things right and so so but all but 01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:25.200 um 01:02:25.200 --> 01:02:28.500 so but those are at different scales 01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:32.520 right like like an electron 01:02:32.520 --> 01:02:34.700 um 01:02:35.819 --> 01:02:40.200 so a a tornadoes are very big causal 01:02:40.200 --> 01:02:42.540 thing with a smoke with us very short 01:02:42.540 --> 01:02:46.140 temper direct temporal duration comes 01:02:46.140 --> 01:02:47.940 and goes 01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:48.540 um 01:02:48.540 --> 01:02:51.059 and 01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:52.380 um 01:02:52.380 --> 01:02:55.799 so one way to identify we're trying to 01:02:55.799 --> 01:02:57.839 figure out where do we assign a compound 01:02:57.839 --> 01:03:01.260 individual so the kind of causal 01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:04.859 properties I have are different than the 01:03:04.859 --> 01:03:08.819 causal properties that my bacteria and 01:03:08.819 --> 01:03:11.520 my gut have and so 01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:14.780 if we think of 01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:19.319 and that's where we can say that they're 01:03:19.319 --> 01:03:22.020 different that I'm a compounded from 01:03:22.020 --> 01:03:24.599 them because when I look at their life 01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:26.339 then they have a different kind of 01:03:26.339 --> 01:03:30.299 causal agency that I have right so 01:03:30.299 --> 01:03:32.579 um and then of course there's overlap 01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:35.299 you know I'm not going to say a a 01:03:35.299 --> 01:03:38.400 paraplegic person who can't run and 01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:40.440 doesn't have the causal agency that I 01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:42.240 have it's not a human being so there's 01:03:42.240 --> 01:03:45.359 there's there's more to this but 01:03:45.359 --> 01:03:46.079 um 01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:47.940 and so 01:03:47.940 --> 01:03:50.000 um 01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.980 so those are just causal agents at 01:03:52.980 --> 01:03:54.660 different scales so it's one way to 01:03:54.660 --> 01:03:57.059 understand how we categorize 01:03:57.059 --> 01:03:59.640 what is an agent 01:03:59.640 --> 01:04:02.099 um and a lot of times how we categorize 01:04:02.099 --> 01:04:03.059 that 01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:05.520 is the kind of causality 01:04:05.520 --> 01:04:08.280 that it has 01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:10.460 um 01:04:10.740 --> 01:04:14.160 so now we can work that backwards so 01:04:14.160 --> 01:04:16.619 people are doing physics 01:04:16.619 --> 01:04:19.920 and they see that there's they can't 01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.040 account for certain effects 01:04:23.040 --> 01:04:24.960 so they must say ah there must be a 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.819 causal agent there called the Higgs 01:04:26.819 --> 01:04:29.280 boson then they go looking for it 01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:31.619 so can it can work backwards and 01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:34.680 sometimes as humans we've actually made 01:04:34.680 --> 01:04:38.160 up things like that that that we I mean 01:04:38.160 --> 01:04:39.920 they're useful because 01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:42.480 they're words that stand in as 01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:45.839 placeholders for real effects that we 01:04:45.839 --> 01:04:47.280 see 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.400 um but even the physicists sometimes 01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:52.559 criticize themselves because of the 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.380 complexity and the subtlety of what 01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:58.140 they're looking at is so heavily relied 01:04:58.140 --> 01:05:01.319 on Theory that they're not sure it's 01:05:01.319 --> 01:05:05.160 useful to call it an actual thing right 01:05:05.160 --> 01:05:07.079 so 01:05:07.079 --> 01:05:10.799 I said that I Define science as a set of 01:05:10.799 --> 01:05:14.119 action protocols 01:05:14.700 --> 01:05:17.760 um to achieve results predicted by the 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:18.900 theory 01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:21.119 and sometimes 01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:23.040 um that gives you correct information 01:05:23.040 --> 01:05:26.819 it's the the and sometimes 01:05:26.819 --> 01:05:29.700 it gives you 01:05:29.700 --> 01:05:34.200 a context in which your theory uh seems 01:05:34.200 --> 01:05:36.240 to be validated but there's there's 01:05:36.240 --> 01:05:38.400 aspects of the experiment that you don't 01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:41.339 understand so it's a false it's a false 01:05:41.339 --> 01:05:45.720 validation it's called like 01:05:45.720 --> 01:05:49.859 yeah it's called the epistemic fallacy 01:05:49.859 --> 01:05:51.920 um 01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:55.680 very simply I know I'm going out but 01:05:55.680 --> 01:05:57.839 very simply I could walk onto an Indian 01:05:57.839 --> 01:06:00.839 reservation and prove that people of 01:06:00.839 --> 01:06:05.640 Native American descent uh have lower IQ 01:06:05.640 --> 01:06:08.520 and I could do that very rigorously but 01:06:08.520 --> 01:06:10.980 the context I'm missing is the whole 01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:14.040 history of Indians in in Indian 01:06:14.040 --> 01:06:16.140 reservations and the whole historical 01:06:16.140 --> 01:06:18.599 cultural so this is what is often the 01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:21.240 case in the scientific experiment except 01:06:21.240 --> 01:06:24.240 what's missing is not so obvious as you 01:06:24.240 --> 01:06:27.559 have to be an idiot to miss that 01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:31.260 although in the recent past people have 01:06:31.260 --> 01:06:33.420 run empirical studies like that and 01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:35.400 actually completely missed the context 01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:38.220 that took the postmodernists to uh 01:06:38.220 --> 01:06:40.680 to point that out so 01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:42.380 um 01:06:42.380 --> 01:06:45.599 yeah it doesn't I mean language itself 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:48.780 in its course green nature just do that 01:06:48.780 --> 01:06:50.940 with like our experience like to even 01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:53.039 call Meadow 01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:55.740 a thing a medical isn't really it's not 01:06:55.740 --> 01:06:58.020 really a meadow it's 01:06:58.020 --> 01:07:02.539 right language is very tricky it's but 01:07:02.539 --> 01:07:07.579 it depends okay where it depends what 01:07:07.579 --> 01:07:11.339 you want language to do language is very 01:07:11.339 --> 01:07:15.359 good at me saying Beto 01:07:15.359 --> 01:07:18.299 and maybe you can't see it yet so I 01:07:18.299 --> 01:07:19.980 could also point to it that's not so 01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:22.200 tricky you wouldn't be so skeptical if I 01:07:22.200 --> 01:07:25.079 pointed at something right now what's if 01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:29.280 I'm going like this and then I say bird 01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:32.760 so this is much more simple functional 01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:35.880 of language right so a lot of times 01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:38.520 language is just a way to point 01:07:38.520 --> 01:07:40.260 um they could point out emotions you 01:07:40.260 --> 01:07:43.200 could point out all kinds of things 01:07:43.200 --> 01:07:46.319 um and so in that case 01:07:46.319 --> 01:07:50.400 um the word metal is not problematic 01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:52.260 but then when I try to deconstruct what 01:07:52.260 --> 01:07:54.960 a meadow is I'm actually trying to 01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:57.599 deconstruct the word and then it it 01:07:57.599 --> 01:07:59.119 it it 01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:01.260 deconstructs itself because it's just 01:08:01.260 --> 01:08:05.099 it's just a point it's just a pointer 01:08:05.099 --> 01:08:07.859 right yeah and when does it obstruct our 01:08:07.859 --> 01:08:11.039 direct experience of phenomenon right 01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:14.160 right so then sometimes 01:08:14.160 --> 01:08:16.440 um in all kinds of things can happen you 01:08:16.440 --> 01:08:18.779 could grow up thinking the first time 01:08:18.779 --> 01:08:22.020 your mother pointed to a meadow you saw 01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:23.640 a blackbird 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:26.520 and then you know next time the little 01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:30.120 kid goes backward you know because these 01:08:30.120 --> 01:08:32.040 things that can be funny like that but 01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:33.480 but 01:08:33.480 --> 01:08:36.900 the more the more Rich you're trying to 01:08:36.900 --> 01:08:39.900 uh 01:08:40.799 --> 01:08:42.960 point the more subtle you're trying to 01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:45.179 point to the more language gets tricky 01:08:45.179 --> 01:08:48.960 and the the you know Alan Watts said 01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:53.640 this any kind of Guru or uh teacher 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:56.100 a lot of the methodology in the pop-up 01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.319 School is 01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:00.480 to make sure that people aren't looking 01:09:00.480 --> 01:09:03.179 at the language and running a simulation 01:09:03.179 --> 01:09:05.279 in their mind 01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:07.380 but always trying to use language to 01:09:07.380 --> 01:09:10.020 point to something I mean when we're 01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:12.000 talking about these crazy things we've 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:13.380 talked about today these are actually 01:09:13.380 --> 01:09:15.480 expected with a philosophy and we're all 01:09:15.480 --> 01:09:19.500 in the imaginary with each other but 01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:21.560 um 01:09:23.759 --> 01:09:26.880 yeah so it's it's very tricky 01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:28.140 um and of course there's a lot of 01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:30.859 teachers that 01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:34.620 I would say viveki is one of them and a 01:09:34.620 --> 01:09:38.100 most western Buddhist who 01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:40.259 when they're pointing to stuff they're 01:09:40.259 --> 01:09:43.679 really pointing to the abstraction and 01:09:43.679 --> 01:09:46.199 not you know that they're not able to 01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:48.600 really understand 01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:51.060 moving and out of what language is doing 01:09:51.060 --> 01:09:53.219 you've seen me talk to some of these 01:09:53.219 --> 01:09:55.199 meditators and I and I have to say now 01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:57.480 you gotta you gotta cut me a break 01:09:57.480 --> 01:09:59.760 because every time I use a word you're 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:01.140 going to tell me well that's just an 01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:03.120 abstraction 01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:06.000 and I have to say I'm just that's not 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.340 how I'm using words I know that I'm 01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:10.560 using abstractions but that's not what 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.260 I'm talking about you know because 01:10:13.260 --> 01:10:16.320 they've learned very quickly to 01:10:16.320 --> 01:10:18.480 deconstruct they're Western Buddhists 01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:19.920 because they're post-modern Buddhists 01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:23.460 they you know so but language is is an 01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:26.940 instrument can be a very valuable tool 01:10:26.940 --> 01:10:28.860 um 01:10:28.860 --> 01:10:30.980 um 01:10:33.080 --> 01:10:36.120 especially if 01:10:36.120 --> 01:10:39.300 um you know can be a valuable tool it's 01:10:39.300 --> 01:10:43.400 very helpful to tool for people to 01:10:43.400 --> 01:10:49.560 run uh shared simulations right so 01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:50.880 um that's a little bit of what we're 01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:54.000 doing today and Phoebe's got an idea 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:56.239 she's simulating something imaginary 01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:59.880 she's she's wants to share that 01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:01.620 um 01:11:01.620 --> 01:11:04.860 it's it's always it's not the content of 01:11:04.860 --> 01:11:08.820 experiences of a problem it's it's if 01:11:08.820 --> 01:11:12.060 you're aware of what kind of experience 01:11:12.060 --> 01:11:15.780 is it that is happening you know like 01:11:15.780 --> 01:11:18.380 like 01:11:18.659 --> 01:11:21.000 you've seen two people argue and they 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:22.620 argue and they argue and they argue and 01:11:22.620 --> 01:11:24.120 they start splitting hairs and gets more 01:11:24.120 --> 01:11:25.440 and more abstract 01:11:25.440 --> 01:11:28.260 and then you step back and you say what 01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:29.940 is it about people that they do this 01:11:29.940 --> 01:11:31.920 okay so now you're like 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:34.440 you're not inside the experience you're 01:11:34.440 --> 01:11:39.659 like how what is what is this you know 01:11:39.659 --> 01:11:41.719 um 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:44.460 but it's very hard like I was trying to 01:11:44.460 --> 01:11:46.380 tell Greg Enriquez the other day that 01:11:46.380 --> 01:11:48.840 that we can speak that we have a 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:50.760 language humans 01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:54.420 is part of our cognitive capacity 01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:57.239 the same way that other animals have 01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:59.580 languages right 01:11:59.580 --> 01:12:03.540 that we use language to create big huge 01:12:03.540 --> 01:12:07.219 justification systems 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:12.600 doesn't mean that what we justify is 01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:15.719 cognitively correct 01:12:15.719 --> 01:12:18.060 like you can see 01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:19.800 cognition 01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:22.440 expanding 01:12:22.440 --> 01:12:25.159 but 01:12:25.620 --> 01:12:28.260 you could use language a species could 01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:30.800 use language in a way that's completely 01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:33.500 evolutionarily dead end 01:12:33.500 --> 01:12:36.120 that we use language in a more 01:12:36.120 --> 01:12:38.580 sophisticated way is a higher cognitive 01:12:38.580 --> 01:12:39.840 capacity 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:41.460 that 01:12:41.460 --> 01:12:44.400 we use it to make all those theories and 01:12:44.400 --> 01:12:47.100 epistemologies could be 01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:49.560 an evolutionary dead end 01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:51.179 and what 01:12:51.179 --> 01:12:54.600 most people think is that once you get 01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:56.400 human language everything they do with 01:12:56.400 --> 01:12:59.880 it is higher on the latter no 01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:02.340 there could be a species that uses 01:13:02.340 --> 01:13:04.800 language in a way that we wouldn't 01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:06.840 recognize as language maybe that's what 01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:10.320 we do years down the line so the what we 01:13:10.320 --> 01:13:12.780 do with language 01:13:12.780 --> 01:13:14.640 you see the difference 01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:16.679 that language becomes more and more 01:13:16.679 --> 01:13:19.679 sophisticated is hardwired into the 01:13:19.679 --> 01:13:22.920 fabric of evolution 01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:25.620 but that are epistemologies get more and 01:13:25.620 --> 01:13:27.480 more sophisticated doesn't mean it's not 01:13:27.480 --> 01:13:30.800 an evolutionary dead end 01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:34.080 just like there are species who have 01:13:34.080 --> 01:13:36.840 languages that didn't 01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:39.179 you know they might have gone extinct 01:13:39.179 --> 01:13:41.520 because it didn't fit the situation the 01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:45.900 way so this is a distinction that 01:13:45.900 --> 01:13:49.219 the cognitive science show is not able 01:13:49.219 --> 01:13:53.460 to do so they think for example that 01:13:53.460 --> 01:13:55.440 realizing God is at the end of 01:13:55.440 --> 01:13:56.699 philosophy 01:13:56.699 --> 01:14:00.179 not up the cognitive stock like Justin 01:14:00.179 --> 01:14:03.380 said like 01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:06.300 does that make sense 01:14:06.300 --> 01:14:08.900 a little 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:11.719 yeah it feels connected to like 01:14:11.719 --> 01:14:15.300 oh so JJ I'm just going to say language 01:14:15.300 --> 01:14:17.640 that way 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:20.940 yeah like JJ's poem uh is up the 01:14:20.940 --> 01:14:23.760 cognitive stock I don't mean to make 01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:26.940 language like the postman I'm just 01:14:26.940 --> 01:14:30.060 mad no no I'm just I'm just 01:14:30.060 --> 01:14:35.420 riffing like the way JJ use language 01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:37.860 I would say is up the cognitive stock 01:14:37.860 --> 01:14:40.739 because you can see that it's reflecting 01:14:40.739 --> 01:14:44.760 a cognitive cognitive awareness 01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:47.580 that is higher it was like the 01:14:47.580 --> 01:14:51.739 Aboriginal painting exactly 01:14:51.900 --> 01:14:54.239 so I was just gonna say what you were 01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:55.620 saying kind of yeah makes me think of 01:14:55.620 --> 01:14:56.699 like when you're talking about the 01:14:56.699 --> 01:14:57.960 difference between the nature of mind 01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:01.800 and kinds of Mind exactly exactly so the 01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:03.840 nature of mind gets to language and 01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:07.140 that's a bigger mutation 01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:10.679 um and this is actually true in in you 01:15:10.679 --> 01:15:12.540 know I always beat up on developmental 01:15:12.540 --> 01:15:16.280 stage Theory uh 01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:18.540 I have to tell you this can you before 01:15:18.540 --> 01:15:20.280 when you first came to the pop-up school 01:15:20.280 --> 01:15:23.100 I interviewed interacted with you in a 01:15:23.100 --> 01:15:24.000 weird way 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.640 because I had conflated you with Katie 01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:28.920 hikingen who's a developmental stage 01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:30.060 terrorist and I don't know if you 01:15:30.060 --> 01:15:32.340 remember a couple of times I said things 01:15:32.340 --> 01:15:33.600 and I'm like 01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:36.600 it was weird then I met Katie hiking in 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:40.260 this past month at Maple and I and it 01:15:40.260 --> 01:15:42.060 pinged back and I was like that's what 01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:46.440 was going on with me I forget 01:15:46.440 --> 01:15:49.140 for what I don't didn't even think so 01:15:49.140 --> 01:15:51.420 Suzanne quick writer said you know when 01:15:51.420 --> 01:15:53.580 you're when you're doing these tests at 01:15:53.580 --> 01:15:54.659 these people 01:15:54.659 --> 01:15:57.000 the tests High 01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.580 that when you take her course she always 01:15:59.580 --> 01:16:01.140 shows you know she shows all the 01:16:01.140 --> 01:16:03.000 sophisticated reasoning and those and 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:05.280 then she shows you a roomy poem and she 01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:07.440 said how do you how do you instantly 01:16:07.440 --> 01:16:10.199 know this is higher it's 01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:12.300 simpler in a way and the words are 01:16:12.300 --> 01:16:15.600 smaller and you don't have all this 01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:18.300 systemic reasoning and so this is the 01:16:18.300 --> 01:16:21.960 distinction that you know is is made but 01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:26.420 often undervalued or overlooked 01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:31.739 I love that question how do you know 01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:35.640 that the roomy poem is a higher yeah 01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:37.620 it's a great question 01:16:37.620 --> 01:16:39.659 and of course when she puts it up there 01:16:39.659 --> 01:16:42.239 everybody knows there's a muscle that 01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:43.500 knows right 01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:46.199 but to be in that question how do I know 01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:49.199 yeah that's like that's 01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:52.020 opening the 01:16:52.020 --> 01:16:54.060 what we it's actually what we're doing 01:16:54.060 --> 01:16:55.940 in our pop-up School 01:16:55.940 --> 01:17:01.159 how do I know what you know yeah 01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:05.280 I was just gonna say uh I wrote my 01:17:05.280 --> 01:17:07.980 thesis uh in theology school 01:17:07.980 --> 01:17:11.580 debt a couple decades ago and I and I 01:17:11.580 --> 01:17:13.920 was talking about how um 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:16.860 going into my father's Armory 01:17:16.860 --> 01:17:19.920 which was his study his Library 01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:23.040 and there were all these books that held 01:17:23.040 --> 01:17:25.199 the meaning of the world 01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:29.580 and what I was left with was but why 01:17:29.580 --> 01:17:33.260 don't I know who I am 01:17:34.080 --> 01:17:37.260 and that's that's not to say every 01:17:37.260 --> 01:17:38.940 single book was 01:17:38.940 --> 01:17:39.900 um 01:17:39.900 --> 01:17:42.420 the the whatever you said earlier that 01:17:42.420 --> 01:17:45.360 it was not necessarily true that the 01:17:45.360 --> 01:17:46.520 cognition 01:17:46.520 --> 01:17:49.560 to something true but there's so much 01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:53.159 there that we give authority to and how 01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:55.020 do we know 01:17:55.020 --> 01:17:58.320 how do we know when there is more 01:17:58.320 --> 01:18:00.420 Authority in something or more or more 01:18:00.420 --> 01:18:03.480 truth and and I'll say when when well 01:18:03.480 --> 01:18:05.940 all of this conversation has been deeply 01:18:05.940 --> 01:18:08.640 stirring and exciting 01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:11.159 um and but in particular Justin when you 01:18:11.159 --> 01:18:13.260 talked about that that 01:18:13.260 --> 01:18:18.000 hire our that longer Arc of vibration my 01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:19.640 whole body said 01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:24.239 whoa you know there's a There's 01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:27.920 Something Real and True here 01:18:28.679 --> 01:18:32.060 and it's not in language 01:18:32.219 --> 01:18:34.080 no which is why I keep coming back to 01:18:34.080 --> 01:18:36.360 the Aboriginal painting when Justin was 01:18:36.360 --> 01:18:39.120 sharing that I went back into that 01:18:39.120 --> 01:18:41.340 painting and 01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:44.760 at the realization that the mind that 01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:46.320 made this painting is a different mind 01:18:46.320 --> 01:18:47.640 than 01:18:47.640 --> 01:18:50.960 than we are 01:18:55.940 --> 01:18:59.960 I have something bubbling 01:19:01.739 --> 01:19:04.460 who's leaving 01:19:09.120 --> 01:19:10.440 um oh 01:19:10.440 --> 01:19:12.620 um 01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:17.340 I came into the class today to see what 01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:20.420 I was looking at 01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:26.820 and I knew my mind would be stimulated 01:19:26.820 --> 01:19:29.400 and I wanted to see 01:19:29.400 --> 01:19:34.140 moment to moment what am I looking at 01:19:34.140 --> 01:19:38.659 so what I've been seeing 01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:44.940 is this play 01:19:44.940 --> 01:19:46.380 with 01:19:46.380 --> 01:19:49.159 language 01:19:49.400 --> 01:19:53.640 and so many of you when you were sharing 01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.640 deeply 01:19:57.480 --> 01:20:00.719 used gestures 01:20:00.719 --> 01:20:05.420 Claudia said Bonnie's art 01:20:08.400 --> 01:20:11.219 and what's bubbling for me 01:20:11.219 --> 01:20:14.040 is 01:20:14.040 --> 01:20:18.300 the intention of the meadow coming 01:20:18.300 --> 01:20:21.300 into 01:20:21.620 --> 01:20:26.040 the flesh Mob of the body the intention 01:20:26.040 --> 01:20:29.760 of the meadow and what is this intention 01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:33.719 of nature as we sit here 01:20:33.719 --> 01:20:37.500 to give us the gesture and to give us 01:20:37.500 --> 01:20:40.560 the body sense of what the person is 01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:44.300 saying beyond the words 01:20:44.340 --> 01:20:47.000 what 01:20:48.719 --> 01:20:51.360 so it seems like 01:20:51.360 --> 01:20:55.260 we are moving into nature today 01:20:55.260 --> 01:20:58.440 through our I mean Katie knows I think 01:20:58.440 --> 01:21:02.400 with my hands but 01:21:02.940 --> 01:21:06.300 there's just something 01:21:06.300 --> 01:21:09.360 bigger about how each of you has been 01:21:09.360 --> 01:21:13.580 gesturing as you use language 01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:20.040 I will say that 01:21:20.040 --> 01:21:22.800 in my perspective 01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:24.960 the longer wavelengths are more 01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:26.300 conscious 01:21:26.300 --> 01:21:29.040 infants are riding longer wavelengths 01:21:29.040 --> 01:21:31.320 and we teach them to narrow it down they 01:21:31.320 --> 01:21:33.840 don't ever lose that my children are 40 01:21:33.840 --> 01:21:36.480 and 39 or whatever they are and they're 01:21:36.480 --> 01:21:39.719 still their Essence is still there 01:21:39.719 --> 01:21:42.420 so when something touches that longer 01:21:42.420 --> 01:21:44.640 wavelength 01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:45.840 like 01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:49.679 JJ's poem it reverberates oh I know that 01:21:49.679 --> 01:21:50.760 space 01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:53.159 it's familiar here 01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:56.880 and even the the children that live on 01:21:56.880 --> 01:21:58.699 this planet 01:21:58.699 --> 01:22:01.920 they might not be touching that 72 01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:04.500 million year span I don't know 01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:07.080 I mean they may come from the spinning 01:22:07.080 --> 01:22:09.300 of the planet for all I know but they're 01:22:09.300 --> 01:22:10.800 all there and they're all available but 01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:14.820 the longest wavelengths in my experience 01:22:14.820 --> 01:22:18.420 are quieter softer 01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:21.140 and deep 01:22:24.360 --> 01:22:26.640 it reminds me of 01:22:26.640 --> 01:22:28.500 some 01:22:28.500 --> 01:22:30.239 I don't know what 01:22:30.239 --> 01:22:32.280 religion it was Buddhist or whatever 01:22:32.280 --> 01:22:34.679 when you looked into the Buddha's mouth 01:22:34.679 --> 01:22:36.659 and you opened his mouth but no it was 01:22:36.659 --> 01:22:38.820 Krishna or something and the whole world 01:22:38.820 --> 01:22:41.420 was there 01:22:45.980 --> 01:22:49.500 no you you go Bonnie 01:22:49.500 --> 01:22:51.600 I was going to also say more intimate as 01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:53.699 just a question he said longer deeper I 01:22:53.699 --> 01:22:54.900 think 01:22:54.900 --> 01:22:57.360 um and more intimate and oh I I'm 01:22:57.360 --> 01:22:59.460 wondering about more intimate and the 01:22:59.460 --> 01:23:01.320 reason I'm saying that is while we were 01:23:01.320 --> 01:23:03.140 talking about language I was remembering 01:23:03.140 --> 01:23:05.640 listening to a Tracker who was talking 01:23:05.640 --> 01:23:08.460 about following footprints 01:23:08.460 --> 01:23:11.640 or paw prints or something and was 01:23:11.640 --> 01:23:13.620 making the link between that and letters 01:23:13.620 --> 01:23:15.360 you know what would future in the future 01:23:15.360 --> 01:23:18.120 become letters and writing 01:23:18.120 --> 01:23:18.840 um 01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:22.739 and he also taught a kind of long 01:23:22.739 --> 01:23:25.440 intimate 01:23:25.440 --> 01:23:28.560 you know deep trying using your words 01:23:28.560 --> 01:23:31.620 and adding intimacy participation with 01:23:31.620 --> 01:23:34.739 the track with the language right so it 01:23:34.739 --> 01:23:37.800 was kind of reading 01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:40.199 reality 01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:42.900 reading the language right of reality in 01:23:42.900 --> 01:23:46.260 the tracks and 01:23:46.260 --> 01:23:50.400 yeah developing those kinds of eyes 01:23:50.400 --> 01:23:54.179 you know beyond tracks I think is maybe 01:23:54.179 --> 01:23:56.820 a little bit also David what you were 01:23:56.820 --> 01:24:02.580 trying to read in nature somehow yeah 01:24:02.580 --> 01:24:04.380 but also we're kind of pulling in I 01:24:04.380 --> 01:24:06.300 think yeah the other bit was 01:24:06.300 --> 01:24:09.239 kind of pulling into the the intimacy 01:24:09.239 --> 01:24:10.320 would 01:24:10.320 --> 01:24:12.840 pull him into the track and then see 01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:13.679 more 01:24:13.679 --> 01:24:16.140 and ask more questions and not really 01:24:16.140 --> 01:24:17.820 close them but just keep asking 01:24:17.820 --> 01:24:19.080 questions 01:24:19.080 --> 01:24:21.360 of what the track was trying to say and 01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:23.880 he would rarely kind of answer the 01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:25.860 question you know like what time did 01:24:25.860 --> 01:24:28.260 this animal come through which would 01:24:28.260 --> 01:24:30.300 create another question which direction 01:24:30.300 --> 01:24:31.980 was it going which would create another 01:24:31.980 --> 01:24:34.219 question so there was this kind of 01:24:34.219 --> 01:24:37.860 opening that just was endless 01:24:37.860 --> 01:24:39.420 and and we don't really treat language 01:24:39.420 --> 01:24:41.760 that way do we language for us is kind 01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:43.560 of a hard stop but this language of the 01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:44.940 track 01:24:44.940 --> 01:24:48.560 was a different kind of language 01:24:50.699 --> 01:24:55.400 I think also one could 01:24:55.400 --> 01:24:59.699 hypothesize or imagine that the speed in 01:24:59.699 --> 01:25:02.880 which we Everything Changes like as it 01:25:02.880 --> 01:25:04.140 speeds up 01:25:04.140 --> 01:25:08.040 is actually like Justin said like it's 01:25:08.040 --> 01:25:10.320 just going to self-destruct like we're 01:25:10.320 --> 01:25:13.080 at this peak where like 01:25:13.080 --> 01:25:16.320 everybody's on a action reaction cycle 01:25:16.320 --> 01:25:21.239 of a nanosecond right with the 01:25:23.040 --> 01:25:25.320 we move at the speed of the electrons 01:25:25.320 --> 01:25:28.140 and the electrons just flip bits at like 01:25:28.140 --> 01:25:30.780 the fastest thing in the world and 01:25:30.780 --> 01:25:35.040 and we allow that to organize our 01:25:35.040 --> 01:25:38.040 our knowledge right there's some I don't 01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:39.300 know there's something I'm playing with 01:25:39.300 --> 01:25:42.719 it but there's there's something about 01:25:42.719 --> 01:25:45.239 I agree with Justin I would say even 01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:46.620 when we were doing the awareness 01:25:46.620 --> 01:25:48.840 exercises you notice you had to stop 01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:51.199 being 01:25:51.960 --> 01:25:54.239 this and this and this and you you 01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:56.340 actually feel like you're spreading out 01:25:56.340 --> 01:25:58.620 and you can feel that if you have the 01:25:58.620 --> 01:26:02.040 capacity to spread out 01:26:02.040 --> 01:26:04.139 to the universe you could be you had 01:26:04.139 --> 01:26:06.600 enough time and space to be aware of 01:26:06.600 --> 01:26:09.360 everything at the same time which would 01:26:09.360 --> 01:26:10.800 be could be a definition of more 01:26:10.800 --> 01:26:15.179 conscious it wouldn't be more yeah and 01:26:15.179 --> 01:26:17.219 then you would experience 01:26:17.219 --> 01:26:20.699 the prime primordial rhythmicity of what 01:26:20.699 --> 01:26:23.000 whatever 01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:24.960 however 01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:27.900 open your awarenesses 01:26:27.900 --> 01:26:32.760 it dials in what rhythmicity you can tap 01:26:32.760 --> 01:26:34.739 into I would say that there's some kind 01:26:34.739 --> 01:26:37.080 of relationship there 01:26:37.080 --> 01:26:39.139 um 01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:43.260 I just wanted to read this uh in 01:26:43.260 --> 01:26:44.880 response to David there's so many 01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:47.219 synchronicities happening here 01:26:47.219 --> 01:26:48.960 um that 01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:51.960 I had just read this this morning that 01:26:51.960 --> 01:26:55.620 janza Wiki calls gesture which she calls 01:26:55.620 --> 01:26:58.860 gesture is the immediate untutored 01:26:58.860 --> 01:27:02.280 response of a human being to meaning 01:27:02.280 --> 01:27:05.040 the immediate untutored response of a 01:27:05.040 --> 01:27:09.440 human being to meaning is gesture 01:27:12.480 --> 01:27:14.400 would you say that one more time 01:27:14.400 --> 01:27:16.679 please I'll write it in the chat because 01:27:16.679 --> 01:27:17.760 it's 01:27:17.760 --> 01:27:20.699 kind of a mouthful 01:27:20.699 --> 01:27:23.159 I want to say to Kate Claudia rather 01:27:23.159 --> 01:27:25.980 that um I think intimacy is a good word 01:27:25.980 --> 01:27:28.800 for that softer length because I 01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:31.260 remember once saying to a friend of mine 01:27:31.260 --> 01:27:33.360 in response to something she said the 01:27:33.360 --> 01:27:35.760 vulnerability is the access to intimacy 01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:37.620 and I think those kinds of words do 01:27:37.620 --> 01:27:39.080 portray 01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:44.159 that those deeper spaces and like JJ's 01:27:44.159 --> 01:27:47.639 words arise from that space and point to 01:27:47.639 --> 01:27:50.100 it just like or Bender or Meister record 01:27:50.100 --> 01:27:52.199 anybody else we like reading that stuff 01:27:52.199 --> 01:27:55.560 because we resonate some have a part of 01:27:55.560 --> 01:27:57.659 us is resonating in that space just like 01:27:57.659 --> 01:28:00.659 Tai Chi is this 01:28:00.659 --> 01:28:02.820 you know it's not rapid it's like 01:28:02.820 --> 01:28:04.679 getting yourself in tune with something 01:28:04.679 --> 01:28:06.840 that's moving a bit slower than our 01:28:06.840 --> 01:28:09.199 normal 01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:13.020 attention span focuses on or attention 01:28:13.020 --> 01:28:15.980 folks and so on 01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:34.920 foreign 01:28:42.360 --> 01:28:47.100 maybe maybe part of intimacy is 01:28:47.100 --> 01:28:49.739 slowing down enough 01:28:49.739 --> 01:28:53.699 to be able to experience 01:28:53.699 --> 01:28:56.760 and perceive and therefore to help come 01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:58.620 alive 01:28:58.620 --> 01:29:02.699 all a spectrum of speed a spectrum of 01:29:02.699 --> 01:29:04.920 vibrational 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:09.780 um being and so uh so so there's a way 01:29:09.780 --> 01:29:13.580 in which it's inclusive 01:29:14.940 --> 01:29:17.600 so that 01:29:20.040 --> 01:29:22.260 and the possibility for what's being 01:29:22.260 --> 01:29:25.400 inclusive to be 01:29:25.679 --> 01:29:26.699 um 01:29:26.699 --> 01:29:28.679 you know 01:29:28.679 --> 01:29:31.620 alive in itself 01:29:31.620 --> 01:29:35.060 Mirror Mirror 01:29:42.120 --> 01:29:44.280 yeah just ping off that I I think the 01:29:44.280 --> 01:29:47.520 intimacy can broaden the bandwidth let's 01:29:47.520 --> 01:29:49.380 say 01:29:49.380 --> 01:29:53.540 into a kind of field you know whatever 01:29:56.520 --> 01:29:59.880 yeah that's that's good that's the uh we 01:29:59.880 --> 01:30:02.219 just said that bandwidth the the long 01:30:02.219 --> 01:30:04.980 thing is about an intimacy and then 01:30:04.980 --> 01:30:07.620 intimacy can 01:30:07.620 --> 01:30:11.100 yeah the the two sides of the same coin 01:30:11.100 --> 01:30:14.360 in a lid yeah 01:30:18.719 --> 01:30:20.880 Anthony how do you link intimacy with 01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:23.880 sensitivity 01:30:26.460 --> 01:30:28.580 um 01:30:29.280 --> 01:30:31.320 well I think we have to be careful 01:30:31.320 --> 01:30:33.260 because 01:30:33.260 --> 01:30:37.100 these words sensitivity vulnerability 01:30:37.100 --> 01:30:40.219 they have negative 01:30:40.219 --> 01:30:43.020 meanings right like oh she's so 01:30:43.020 --> 01:30:44.520 sensitive or something and the problem 01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:46.440 is is because 01:30:46.440 --> 01:30:48.659 it's very hard for us to be intimate so 01:30:48.659 --> 01:30:50.880 we always get hurt and we get hurt when 01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:53.520 we're vulnerable and in a healthy 01:30:53.520 --> 01:30:56.219 Society those wouldn't be so close 01:30:56.219 --> 01:30:58.520 together 01:30:59.940 --> 01:31:02.340 you wouldn't you you know you would be 01:31:02.340 --> 01:31:04.560 sensitive or senseful to the other but 01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:07.739 you wouldn't feel sensitive so the so 01:31:07.739 --> 01:31:09.179 it's just I don't know 01:31:09.179 --> 01:31:10.739 how you're asking the question but 01:31:10.739 --> 01:31:13.380 that's what first comes to me it should 01:31:13.380 --> 01:31:15.659 be tricky you know 01:31:15.659 --> 01:31:18.320 um uh 01:31:18.320 --> 01:31:21.900 vulnerability and intimacy 01:31:21.900 --> 01:31:24.300 are so tightly coupled to things that 01:31:24.300 --> 01:31:26.520 make us nervous and scared 01:31:26.520 --> 01:31:28.380 uh and you know every day so that's 01:31:28.380 --> 01:31:30.300 something wrong with our 01:31:30.300 --> 01:31:32.340 Society something we have to deal with 01:31:32.340 --> 01:31:34.440 because 01:31:34.440 --> 01:31:36.560 um 01:31:37.080 --> 01:31:38.540 because we don't really understand 01:31:38.540 --> 01:31:42.120 intimacy right so 01:31:42.120 --> 01:31:44.219 that's one thing and I think this has 01:31:44.219 --> 01:31:45.540 something to do with the actual 01:31:45.540 --> 01:31:48.060 definition of intimacy mean being a long 01:31:48.060 --> 01:31:50.699 bandwidth right if you're intimate with 01:31:50.699 --> 01:31:52.440 someone and then 01:31:52.440 --> 01:31:55.199 they yell at you or everything seems to 01:31:55.199 --> 01:31:58.080 be going south and you have this very 01:31:58.080 --> 01:32:01.139 very long perspective 01:32:01.139 --> 01:32:04.080 then it doesn't disrupt that and you 01:32:04.080 --> 01:32:06.620 don't feel 01:32:06.719 --> 01:32:10.679 you don't feel hurt by it 01:32:10.679 --> 01:32:14.340 um and you wouldn't necessarily then use 01:32:14.340 --> 01:32:17.340 the word I was vulnerable to him see if 01:32:17.340 --> 01:32:19.040 I use that word 01:32:19.040 --> 01:32:21.120 it makes me 01:32:21.120 --> 01:32:23.580 um it shows that I'm always dealing with 01:32:23.580 --> 01:32:25.139 a certain amount of anxiety around 01:32:25.139 --> 01:32:27.600 whether I'm going to get hurt 01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:30.480 um so this is a fact of our current 01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:34.679 situation but I don't think it's a prima 01:32:34.679 --> 01:32:37.620 fashion whatever the uh you say that you 01:32:37.620 --> 01:32:39.659 only see it written in academic I never 01:32:39.659 --> 01:32:42.659 hear anyone but she won't say that word 01:32:42.659 --> 01:32:46.260 um involved in the deeper notion of 01:32:46.260 --> 01:32:48.179 intimacy 01:32:48.179 --> 01:32:50.100 um and so 01:32:50.100 --> 01:32:52.100 um 01:32:52.380 --> 01:32:54.960 but I also when you when you're asking 01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:57.900 that question what immediately comes to 01:32:57.900 --> 01:33:00.440 my mind is that 01:33:00.440 --> 01:33:03.840 intimacy so there's I think what I'm 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:05.460 going to say now is like just another 01:33:05.460 --> 01:33:08.300 way to say what I just said now that but 01:33:08.300 --> 01:33:14.159 intimacy without this nervousness 01:33:14.159 --> 01:33:14.940 um 01:33:14.940 --> 01:33:20.940 it's a kind of sensitivity with clarity 01:33:20.940 --> 01:33:24.000 right so that you have the sensitivity 01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:27.060 to see someone perfectly in the intimacy 01:33:27.060 --> 01:33:29.520 for that to be show up as love right so 01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:32.040 everything perfectly seen is loved you 01:33:32.040 --> 01:33:33.659 have to have a tremendous amount of 01:33:33.659 --> 01:33:36.420 sensitivity to see something perfectly 01:33:36.420 --> 01:33:38.460 and 01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:40.760 um but also 01:33:40.760 --> 01:33:44.239 uh profound Clarity 01:33:44.239 --> 01:33:47.460 and this is I used to say this all the 01:33:47.460 --> 01:33:49.500 time when I did the collective Insight 01:33:49.500 --> 01:33:52.139 Retreats that 01:33:52.139 --> 01:33:53.880 because you know when you start a 01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:55.320 collective Insight Retreats you have 01:33:55.320 --> 01:33:59.400 this normal polarity that uh that the 01:33:59.400 --> 01:34:02.760 masculine wants to have Clarity and The 01:34:02.760 --> 01:34:04.739 Feminine wants to be embodied and be 01:34:04.739 --> 01:34:08.940 real sensitive and I would say you know 01:34:08.940 --> 01:34:12.360 they're both distortions and how and we 01:34:12.360 --> 01:34:15.179 don't and we see them as a polarity 01:34:15.179 --> 01:34:17.820 um but this is also a distortion of the 01:34:17.820 --> 01:34:20.820 of the human experience that they they 01:34:20.820 --> 01:34:25.320 actually work toward the same direction 01:34:25.320 --> 01:34:26.880 um and one without the other is a 01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:29.280 distortion right but we have the body 01:34:29.280 --> 01:34:31.139 Minds we have and so there are some 01:34:31.139 --> 01:34:33.239 people who are very talented at being 01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:35.940 sensitive but they're overwhelmed and so 01:34:35.940 --> 01:34:38.639 they can't you know the the they're not 01:34:38.639 --> 01:34:42.020 clear and then we so we're kind of we 01:34:42.020 --> 01:34:44.219 these energies are kind of like 01:34:44.219 --> 01:34:46.440 distributed functions in our society we 01:34:46.440 --> 01:34:47.940 shouldn't be fighting with it but the 01:34:47.940 --> 01:34:51.060 goal of the of a human being in the 01:34:51.060 --> 01:34:54.360 future uh what I would say is is the 01:34:54.360 --> 01:34:57.060 goal of insight practice or these free 01:34:57.060 --> 01:35:01.020 space practices is to see them 01:35:01.020 --> 01:35:04.020 as as 01:35:04.020 --> 01:35:05.880 um 01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:08.880 see that when they're separated they're 01:35:08.880 --> 01:35:11.120 broken 01:35:11.580 --> 01:35:13.380 um so how can you be sensitive with 01:35:13.380 --> 01:35:16.139 Clarity this is it this is a lifelong 01:35:16.139 --> 01:35:18.000 project but it's it's a I like it 01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:19.440 because it's a project for both 01:35:19.440 --> 01:35:21.900 masculine and feminine types it's the 01:35:21.900 --> 01:35:24.179 same project 01:35:24.179 --> 01:35:27.679 go you know so 01:35:27.900 --> 01:35:30.780 that's not to me to say that what ends 01:35:30.780 --> 01:35:32.699 up is everyone looks the same there's 01:35:32.699 --> 01:35:35.100 still different skill sets and different 01:35:35.100 --> 01:35:39.000 uh uh categories but 01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:41.960 um for me this is the challenge for 01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:45.480 especially when when we started these 01:35:45.480 --> 01:35:49.080 groups years ago there was a very strong 01:35:49.080 --> 01:35:52.520 so we're already there 01:35:59.699 --> 01:36:02.219 I asked Ria back if she wanted to do 01:36:02.219 --> 01:36:05.580 experiments with chat GPT and Collective 01:36:05.580 --> 01:36:06.780 presidency 01:36:06.780 --> 01:36:09.659 so that to see chat GPT could give 01:36:09.659 --> 01:36:12.600 language to some of these Expressions 01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:15.199 that 01:36:15.360 --> 01:36:17.520 people have when they really feel 01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:19.920 something and and that they're not 01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:22.500 they're not that clear about it 01:36:22.500 --> 01:36:24.120 I mean I think it would be fun I don't 01:36:24.120 --> 01:36:27.199 think it would be useful but 01:36:27.360 --> 01:36:29.940 well somebody in the group did Brandon 01:36:29.940 --> 01:36:33.239 David Phoebe know did ask GPT a question 01:36:33.239 --> 01:36:36.719 and it gave a very eloquent answer and 01:36:36.719 --> 01:36:38.880 Rio's response was some of those words 01:36:38.880 --> 01:36:43.260 are mine yeah okay so this is this is 01:36:43.260 --> 01:36:44.760 actually 01:36:44.760 --> 01:36:46.739 um 01:36:46.739 --> 01:36:49.800 so the people on the liminal web or the 01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:53.159 people that like you you all would take 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:55.199 courses from it's not a very large group 01:36:55.199 --> 01:36:58.020 of people and you could train chat GPT 01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:00.900 on the select group of people so it 01:37:00.900 --> 01:37:03.480 would retrain people's minds you know so 01:37:03.480 --> 01:37:05.699 like I have some someone who's building 01:37:05.699 --> 01:37:06.780 one 01:37:06.780 --> 01:37:09.540 um and the cool thing about it they're 01:37:09.540 --> 01:37:11.639 building one on my work is that I can 01:37:11.639 --> 01:37:13.560 write any old thing doesn't have the 01:37:13.560 --> 01:37:16.139 sentence structure doesn't have to make 01:37:16.139 --> 01:37:18.139 sense or anything because it's just 01:37:18.139 --> 01:37:21.600 training on how like these phrases I use 01:37:21.600 --> 01:37:25.320 more than so so you can just like keep 01:37:25.320 --> 01:37:27.840 pouring in and like one of the 01:37:27.840 --> 01:37:29.580 things we're training is not to talk 01:37:29.580 --> 01:37:32.699 about complex adaptive systems they have 01:37:32.699 --> 01:37:35.580 to talk about comp take all these 01:37:35.580 --> 01:37:38.219 dynamics that refer to complex adaptive 01:37:38.219 --> 01:37:40.739 system and speak in the language of 01:37:40.739 --> 01:37:43.380 complex potential States 01:37:43.380 --> 01:37:46.679 to have to so like these little these 01:37:46.679 --> 01:37:48.900 little things that like I think are 01:37:48.900 --> 01:37:53.100 malware we were reading were were we 01:37:53.100 --> 01:37:55.380 wanted to say things in these other ways 01:37:55.380 --> 01:38:00.020 this I think is very useful uh tool 01:38:00.020 --> 01:38:03.659 uh to it's what we do the pop-up school 01:38:03.659 --> 01:38:05.880 we just keep refirming and refunding and 01:38:05.880 --> 01:38:09.239 reframing in ways that try to exit the 01:38:09.239 --> 01:38:12.199 old way of thinking 01:38:17.639 --> 01:38:20.820 I have to leave but I just wanted to say 01:38:20.820 --> 01:38:22.980 that 01:38:22.980 --> 01:38:26.040 um since the last session 01:38:26.040 --> 01:38:28.260 um the 01:38:28.260 --> 01:38:31.980 making friends or even I'll go further 01:38:31.980 --> 01:38:35.340 and say you know falling in love with 01:38:35.340 --> 01:38:39.020 heart constraints 01:38:39.380 --> 01:38:42.840 has become a bit of a game 01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:46.739 and now that you just said 01:38:46.739 --> 01:38:47.520 um 01:38:47.520 --> 01:38:51.060 complex potential States I think that 01:38:51.060 --> 01:38:53.940 that's the perspective of ship 01:38:53.940 --> 01:38:55.260 that 01:38:55.260 --> 01:38:57.480 if you make friends with hard 01:38:57.480 --> 01:39:01.320 constraints then it's complex potential 01:39:01.320 --> 01:39:02.840 states 01:39:02.840 --> 01:39:05.159 that that 01:39:05.159 --> 01:39:09.020 but I just have found myself that 01:39:09.020 --> 01:39:12.840 whenever I'm confronted since that 01:39:12.840 --> 01:39:15.600 conversation and I'm confronted with one 01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:19.500 of those fur balls of you know do more 01:39:19.500 --> 01:39:22.440 you know I just I just had this 01:39:22.440 --> 01:39:26.520 little smile you know ah here we go hard 01:39:26.520 --> 01:39:28.500 to constraints 01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:32.120 but to get it on baby 01:39:32.120 --> 01:39:36.060 and uh and write it you know and yeah I 01:39:36.060 --> 01:39:39.320 think I think if you're along 01:39:39.320 --> 01:39:42.739 writing you know and how the the horse 01:39:42.739 --> 01:39:47.580 and and wanted to go and be competitive 01:39:47.580 --> 01:39:49.620 and you needed to hold it back and then 01:39:49.620 --> 01:39:51.960 you've got that advice and and you are 01:39:51.960 --> 01:39:53.760 like and you know what are people gonna 01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:55.739 think and she's like what the you 01:39:55.739 --> 01:39:56.639 know 01:39:56.639 --> 01:39:59.100 um that's not what matters so it's kind 01:39:59.100 --> 01:40:02.280 of combined into this little 01:40:02.280 --> 01:40:04.080 you know 01:40:04.080 --> 01:40:07.320 thing that goes from hard constraints 01:40:07.320 --> 01:40:09.780 writing what the do you care what 01:40:09.780 --> 01:40:13.320 people think and then complex potential 01:40:13.320 --> 01:40:15.960 States is what you just gave me now you 01:40:15.960 --> 01:40:20.340 know to to kind of do the swoop exactly 01:40:20.340 --> 01:40:22.920 yeah and then if you're not adapting to 01:40:22.920 --> 01:40:25.020 anything then you're not you don't have 01:40:25.020 --> 01:40:27.659 this action reaction cycle to what 01:40:27.659 --> 01:40:30.840 happens it's just how can I just 01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:33.420 open potential and then you can sit back 01:40:33.420 --> 01:40:35.040 oh wow 01:40:35.040 --> 01:40:37.080 that's interesting 01:40:37.080 --> 01:40:39.780 what happened there any and even from an 01:40:39.780 --> 01:40:42.239 existential standpoint all this kind of 01:40:42.239 --> 01:40:45.000 emphasis on crisis and all this other 01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:46.500 stuff sort of 01:40:46.500 --> 01:40:49.199 turns into this set of way I mean 01:40:49.199 --> 01:40:52.380 because then you go looking for other 01:40:52.380 --> 01:40:56.280 times uh like I think I found out you 01:40:56.280 --> 01:40:58.380 know like if you think of what it might 01:40:58.380 --> 01:41:01.340 have been like between like 1820 and 01:41:01.340 --> 01:41:04.620 1860 where people went from horses to 01:41:04.620 --> 01:41:07.800 steam engines and trains and I mean 01:41:07.800 --> 01:41:11.040 that's got to be insane I mean there 01:41:11.040 --> 01:41:13.560 were projections of how cities were 01:41:13.560 --> 01:41:15.179 going to be covered in horseshit 01:41:15.179 --> 01:41:18.300 everywhere because that was like a 01:41:18.300 --> 01:41:21.600 massive problem so on one side you had 01:41:21.600 --> 01:41:25.260 you know Horsehead and then now you've 01:41:25.260 --> 01:41:28.020 got all this speed in in all these 01:41:28.020 --> 01:41:30.960 completely different ways of living I 01:41:30.960 --> 01:41:33.260 mean that had to have been 01:41:33.260 --> 01:41:36.659 hugely destabilizing in terms of 01:41:36.659 --> 01:41:39.540 day-to-day life but that's the 01:41:39.540 --> 01:41:42.360 definition of what we just depend back 01:41:42.360 --> 01:41:44.880 on what it is to be causally effective 01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:47.880 agent it's not to take the past and 01:41:47.880 --> 01:41:50.580 increase its tractions 01:41:50.580 --> 01:41:54.300 so uh trajectory like I said okay we've 01:41:54.300 --> 01:41:57.060 got some horses and now we'll look into 01:41:57.060 --> 01:41:58.560 the future we're gonna have a lot of 01:41:58.560 --> 01:41:59.760 horses 01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:02.400 it's to take the pass and when it goes 01:42:02.400 --> 01:42:04.320 through your mind or your body or your 01:42:04.320 --> 01:42:06.420 gesture what comes out is something 01:42:06.420 --> 01:42:08.400 different 01:42:08.400 --> 01:42:11.760 so to be causally effective is to take 01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:14.580 the initial conditions the stream of 01:42:14.580 --> 01:42:17.340 causal reality that's coming in 01:42:17.340 --> 01:42:20.820 and when it goes that way it's it's got 01:42:20.820 --> 01:42:24.060 a different class of potential now of 01:42:24.060 --> 01:42:26.280 course that doesn't mean it these are 01:42:26.280 --> 01:42:28.280 just little micro 01:42:28.280 --> 01:42:31.320 nudges we can do as human beings but 01:42:31.320 --> 01:42:33.719 it's a completely different way to look 01:42:33.719 --> 01:42:36.060 at you don't have a problem situation 01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:39.900 you have a situation room you work with 01:42:39.900 --> 01:42:42.500 and 01:42:44.699 --> 01:42:48.980 yeah we're transducers 01:43:02.400 --> 01:43:05.460 personally laughing in the background I 01:43:05.460 --> 01:43:08.239 didn't see her before 01:43:10.139 --> 01:43:12.380 foreign 01:43:24.659 --> 01:43:28.880 no I want to add 01:43:29.040 --> 01:43:34.199 this quote just your quote feels to me 01:43:34.199 --> 01:43:39.020 like a layer got pulled off of 01:43:39.600 --> 01:43:45.440 a doorway into woo way through play 01:43:45.440 --> 01:43:49.860 untutored response 01:43:57.840 --> 01:44:01.040 that's tutored 01:44:11.040 --> 01:44:12.960 yeah and what you're talking about 01:44:12.960 --> 01:44:15.260 Bonnie Wright like requires a certain 01:44:15.260 --> 01:44:20.280 like minimum viable intimacy 01:44:20.280 --> 01:44:23.940 right so such that our encounter with 01:44:23.940 --> 01:44:26.520 what's coming in we're made vulnerable 01:44:26.520 --> 01:44:27.600 to it 01:44:27.600 --> 01:44:30.000 I mean such that what comes out 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:31.800 can truly 01:44:31.800 --> 01:44:34.080 be different or not an ideology or 01:44:34.080 --> 01:44:36.860 strategy or 01:44:37.560 --> 01:44:41.699 be determined yeah also something like 01:44:41.699 --> 01:44:44.159 if you're not intimate because one of 01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:46.500 the definitions intimacy is porosity if 01:44:46.500 --> 01:44:49.199 I'm intimate with you like things become 01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:52.739 poor self-awther becomes so mostly in a 01:44:52.739 --> 01:44:53.780 context 01:44:53.780 --> 01:44:56.460 adaptive if you're thinking of adapting 01:44:56.460 --> 01:44:59.100 to evolutionary pressure or adapting to 01:44:59.100 --> 01:45:00.600 the situation 01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:03.239 we actually wanted we're like put up our 01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:05.699 Shields and we just wanted to bounce off 01:45:05.699 --> 01:45:08.639 of us right and so you can't transduce 01:45:08.639 --> 01:45:11.100 at all you just become part of the ping 01:45:11.100 --> 01:45:12.320 pong 01:45:12.320 --> 01:45:15.780 billiard ball game on this side 01:45:15.780 --> 01:45:18.420 um and it's variable way or it's very 01:45:18.420 --> 01:45:20.820 Tai Chi you know when the attacker comes 01:45:20.820 --> 01:45:22.980 at once it comes at you it's very Yin 01:45:22.980 --> 01:45:25.139 you just 01:45:25.139 --> 01:45:27.300 you move out of the way in a way that 01:45:27.300 --> 01:45:29.100 makes the other person move in a 01:45:29.100 --> 01:45:32.960 different way you know it's all like 01:45:33.780 --> 01:45:36.780 um yeah so the the theory of complex 01:45:36.780 --> 01:45:39.719 potential States is is just a theory 01:45:39.719 --> 01:45:43.860 it's just a useful imaginary but I 01:45:43.860 --> 01:45:45.600 created it because 01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:47.820 almost everything we talk about in 01:45:47.820 --> 01:45:50.580 society and systems thinking we have 01:45:50.580 --> 01:45:52.980 this go-winning attitude that there's 01:45:52.980 --> 01:45:55.380 pressure put into the system and then 01:45:55.380 --> 01:45:58.020 you have to adapt and it's just like 01:45:58.020 --> 01:46:01.320 Action Reaction Cycles so 01:46:01.320 --> 01:46:03.000 everything's gotten to be like that 01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:07.679 economy and geopolitics and it it closed 01:46:07.679 --> 01:46:10.980 it actually closes the system 01:46:10.980 --> 01:46:14.179 um to think that way 01:46:15.600 --> 01:46:19.820 it creates arms races of all kinds 01:46:21.300 --> 01:46:23.699 I do want to say that um 01:46:23.699 --> 01:46:27.360 vulnerability and intimacy also it's not 01:46:27.360 --> 01:46:30.000 just about what you share it what it's 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:33.000 what the space can then evoke from you 01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:35.280 that you didn't know was there if you 01:46:35.280 --> 01:46:36.480 open up 01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:38.639 because in this space I mean it took me 01:46:38.639 --> 01:46:39.840 I don't know eight or ten months before 01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:41.520 I started talking much 01:46:41.520 --> 01:46:45.179 and the more I get acclimated the more 01:46:45.179 --> 01:46:49.500 of my unknown parts of me that are 01:46:49.500 --> 01:46:51.560 included by the energy of everybody 01:46:51.560 --> 01:46:55.440 who's here get drawn out of me 01:46:55.440 --> 01:46:57.139 and 01:46:57.139 --> 01:47:00.719 spaces that I can like JJ 01:47:00.719 --> 01:47:03.600 speak them into existence because I'm 01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:06.360 then I'm vulnerable to allow the space 01:47:06.360 --> 01:47:09.619 to affect me that way 01:47:11.040 --> 01:47:13.860 so people trans you can feel yourself 01:47:13.860 --> 01:47:18.060 being transduced by real agency right 01:47:18.060 --> 01:47:19.860 like 01:47:19.860 --> 01:47:23.940 now I'm being transduced by Justin's 01:47:23.940 --> 01:47:25.199 statement 01:47:25.199 --> 01:47:29.239 or by this experience 01:47:30.239 --> 01:47:31.619 Bonnie what do you think of forest 01:47:31.619 --> 01:47:33.300 Landry's definition you know love is 01:47:33.300 --> 01:47:35.880 that which enables choice 01:47:35.880 --> 01:47:37.940 um 01:47:37.940 --> 01:47:40.560 you know the problem with these the 01:47:40.560 --> 01:47:44.880 reason why the these curve phrases that 01:47:44.880 --> 01:47:47.280 we share the pop-ups will work for us is 01:47:47.280 --> 01:47:49.380 because of just what Justin said because 01:47:49.380 --> 01:47:51.239 we have this history and we're becoming 01:47:51.239 --> 01:47:53.159 intimate 01:47:53.159 --> 01:47:56.880 we might take one of our cool phrases 01:47:56.880 --> 01:47:59.159 and ask somebody the question and they'd 01:47:59.159 --> 01:48:00.840 be like well that's a cool phrase you 01:48:00.840 --> 01:48:03.300 know so I don't know what he means I 01:48:03.300 --> 01:48:06.000 mean I think it sounds reasonable but it 01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:08.100 I don't know 01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:10.380 like and I could project a lot of 01:48:10.380 --> 01:48:13.500 meaning around it but I don't 01:48:13.500 --> 01:48:16.560 because it's not it hasn't been like a 01:48:16.560 --> 01:48:20.239 process I don't know 01:48:21.600 --> 01:48:25.220 um now having said that my my my 01:48:25.220 --> 01:48:27.380 [Music] 01:48:27.380 --> 01:48:28.980 opinion 01:48:28.980 --> 01:48:32.040 about it so so 01:48:32.040 --> 01:48:35.340 um that would be the generous answer 01:48:35.340 --> 01:48:38.940 um but I also know something about uh 01:48:38.940 --> 01:48:41.460 Forest Landry as a human being and what 01:48:41.460 --> 01:48:44.219 he struggles with so when I hear that I 01:48:44.219 --> 01:48:46.440 hear something a lot about his 01:48:46.440 --> 01:48:50.100 psychological uh struggle only because I 01:48:50.100 --> 01:48:54.260 I know I know that so 01:48:54.600 --> 01:48:56.659 um 01:48:58.139 --> 01:49:00.540 it's like when I read David Graver and 01:49:00.540 --> 01:49:04.020 when when girls book um 01:49:04.020 --> 01:49:06.420 um the dawn of everything 01:49:06.420 --> 01:49:10.260 I don't I could I can feel them 01:49:10.260 --> 01:49:12.900 really biasing their story because 01:49:12.900 --> 01:49:17.100 they're anarchists I don't I it doesn't 01:49:17.100 --> 01:49:19.139 you're having a conversation with people 01:49:19.139 --> 01:49:21.179 who are 01:49:21.179 --> 01:49:22.980 um 01:49:22.980 --> 01:49:25.920 are shaping The Narrative consciously 01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:29.460 you know so so 01:49:29.460 --> 01:49:31.679 whereas sometimes it doesn't I mean 01:49:31.679 --> 01:49:34.139 there's obviously something always 01:49:34.139 --> 01:49:36.540 that play there 01:49:36.540 --> 01:49:39.239 um you know I try to be transparent that 01:49:39.239 --> 01:49:41.159 you know I think most of my work is 01:49:41.159 --> 01:49:42.840 because we're destroying the environment 01:49:42.840 --> 01:49:47.340 so I shape how I think and I shape how I 01:49:47.340 --> 01:49:49.139 teach and I shape 01:49:49.139 --> 01:49:51.679 um so 01:49:52.380 --> 01:49:54.360 um but I know choice is a big deal in 01:49:54.360 --> 01:49:56.280 his metaphysics 01:49:56.280 --> 01:49:58.340 um 01:50:14.520 --> 01:50:17.900 what do you think about it 01:50:19.260 --> 01:50:22.500 I I think it pings with this potential 01:50:22.500 --> 01:50:24.360 State thing a little bit because if you 01:50:24.360 --> 01:50:25.739 love someone 01:50:25.739 --> 01:50:28.020 it does seem that you can you kind of 01:50:28.020 --> 01:50:30.840 give them space for more possibility 01:50:30.840 --> 01:50:32.880 to kind of Express themselves fully 01:50:32.880 --> 01:50:34.619 let's say or to 01:50:34.619 --> 01:50:37.639 um yeah 01:50:37.860 --> 01:50:40.260 see I and I don't hear that in the word 01:50:40.260 --> 01:50:43.139 choice to me choice I I feel much more 01:50:43.139 --> 01:50:44.639 like 01:50:44.639 --> 01:50:48.360 control but but 01:50:48.360 --> 01:50:51.000 yeah it's out of context it'd be agency 01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:53.780 yeah yeah 01:50:58.619 --> 01:51:00.060 I'm just going to say something about 01:51:00.060 --> 01:51:01.920 the word love too because 01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:03.780 um 01:51:03.780 --> 01:51:07.619 I met my wife in 1977 and my whole being 01:51:07.619 --> 01:51:10.800 just went who are you you know and 01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:13.739 there's a certain velocity I experienced 01:51:13.739 --> 01:51:17.040 in moving towards the energy of who she 01:51:17.040 --> 01:51:17.940 is 01:51:17.940 --> 01:51:19.980 you know we've been married 43 years and 01:51:19.980 --> 01:51:21.960 we there it's like a binary star system 01:51:21.960 --> 01:51:24.840 now the velocity with which we are 01:51:24.840 --> 01:51:25.980 moving 01:51:25.980 --> 01:51:30.600 is nowhere near what it was before so 01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:32.760 the oh my God I love you oh my God I 01:51:32.760 --> 01:51:34.020 love it that's out there the love is 01:51:34.020 --> 01:51:36.900 there but there's a there's a peaceful 01:51:36.900 --> 01:51:39.860 Harmony to it so it's not this 01:51:39.860 --> 01:51:42.300 overwhelming love it's just a matter of 01:51:42.300 --> 01:51:43.980 fact yeah 01:51:43.980 --> 01:51:45.840 yeah we love each other that's how it is 01:51:45.840 --> 01:51:48.239 but the sensation a lot of people point 01:51:48.239 --> 01:51:50.340 to when they say I'm in love 01:51:50.340 --> 01:51:52.800 I would not describe 01:51:52.800 --> 01:51:55.320 I would describe that as velocity of 01:51:55.320 --> 01:51:58.800 lotion towards each other 01:51:58.800 --> 01:52:01.440 I love that word philosophy in this 01:52:01.440 --> 01:52:03.600 context and as soon as you said velocity 01:52:03.600 --> 01:52:06.980 I thought of orbit 01:52:09.540 --> 01:52:11.460 right like 01:52:11.460 --> 01:52:13.760 yeah 01:52:15.119 --> 01:52:17.040 now the interesting thing about that is 01:52:17.040 --> 01:52:19.440 she likes to travel not so much so 01:52:19.440 --> 01:52:21.420 she'll be gone for 10 days I can feel 01:52:21.420 --> 01:52:23.880 the difference when she comes back the 01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:26.280 motion towards just in that little bit 01:52:26.280 --> 01:52:28.380 of time time frame 01:52:28.380 --> 01:52:31.159 it's lovely 01:53:14.880 --> 01:53:18.080 there's something that in this 01:53:18.080 --> 01:53:20.880 conversation about vulnerability and 01:53:20.880 --> 01:53:23.460 intimacy and 01:53:23.460 --> 01:53:24.960 um 01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:26.580 potential 01:53:26.580 --> 01:53:29.040 States 01:53:29.040 --> 01:53:32.760 uh the word that keeps arising in my 01:53:32.760 --> 01:53:36.960 awareness is receptivity 01:53:38.159 --> 01:53:40.880 that 01:53:40.980 --> 01:53:43.880 the 01:53:45.540 --> 01:53:48.619 the openness to 01:53:48.619 --> 01:53:52.920 a different kind of causality 01:53:52.920 --> 01:53:55.320 feels very much a part of what we're 01:53:55.320 --> 01:53:57.920 talking about 01:54:01.440 --> 01:54:04.860 so that's perfect because I was thinking 01:54:04.860 --> 01:54:08.159 saying this and I I forgot but it's like 01:54:08.159 --> 01:54:11.460 remember last year we were talking about 01:54:11.460 --> 01:54:14.820 the core self has to figure out the 01:54:14.820 --> 01:54:17.460 definitions of self-othering world 01:54:17.460 --> 01:54:20.100 and that is a lifelong process well 01:54:20.100 --> 01:54:21.600 that's kind of what we've been doing 01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:23.699 today like what is a compound self is 01:54:23.699 --> 01:54:25.980 itself or others it combined you know 01:54:25.980 --> 01:54:28.920 like what is if what is a self at the 01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:31.080 universal scale what is the world is it 01:54:31.080 --> 01:54:34.619 a self I mean we're basically in this 01:54:34.619 --> 01:54:37.739 conversation again and remember when I 01:54:37.739 --> 01:54:40.320 said when you're doing that 01:54:40.320 --> 01:54:43.739 it's always a question of causality that 01:54:43.739 --> 01:54:46.980 the question of what causality is is 01:54:46.980 --> 01:54:49.739 embedded in the construction of some 01:54:49.739 --> 01:54:52.739 other worlds so that this is this is 01:54:52.739 --> 01:54:56.040 perfect because this is exactly 01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:57.719 the project 01:54:57.719 --> 01:55:01.699 uh at a late late stage 01:55:01.980 --> 01:55:03.420 kind of 01:55:03.420 --> 01:55:08.400 uh you know we're not reproducing Early 01:55:08.400 --> 01:55:10.739 Childhood experience but we're bringing 01:55:10.739 --> 01:55:15.360 that one project way into a higher 01:55:15.360 --> 01:55:17.639 inquiry 01:55:17.639 --> 01:55:21.000 but yeah you're right it's always in 01:55:21.000 --> 01:55:23.239 that 01:55:24.260 --> 01:55:27.780 inquiry is always the nature of cause 01:55:27.780 --> 01:55:30.500 causation 01:55:31.800 --> 01:55:34.139 because if we're members of a larger 01:55:34.139 --> 01:55:37.320 compound individual that would explain a 01:55:37.320 --> 01:55:39.239 lot about synchronicities in this you 01:55:39.239 --> 01:55:41.360 know so all of these things directly 01:55:41.360 --> 01:55:45.080 directly relate 01:55:48.780 --> 01:55:51.600 one thing just popped into my head you 01:55:51.600 --> 01:55:53.880 know Don Juan Carlos Costa native the 01:55:53.880 --> 01:55:55.560 sorcerer friend 01:55:55.560 --> 01:55:58.320 in one of his books he said he basically 01:55:58.320 --> 01:56:00.060 what he said other words is will the 01:56:00.060 --> 01:56:02.040 souls come from the Star and they go 01:56:02.040 --> 01:56:04.320 back to the star 01:56:04.320 --> 01:56:07.139 I kind of like that too makes sense to 01:56:07.139 --> 01:56:09.119 me 01:56:09.119 --> 01:56:11.780 you 01:56:12.300 --> 01:56:13.980 know 01:56:13.980 --> 01:56:16.560 One Last Thing One Last ping we might 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:18.119 have another one 01:56:18.119 --> 01:56:20.760 um so once this friend of mine I talk 01:56:20.760 --> 01:56:22.619 about him a lot very fonds and intimate 01:56:22.619 --> 01:56:25.139 with him and he's the person that is 01:56:25.139 --> 01:56:27.600 lives in Germany psychotic 01:56:27.600 --> 01:56:29.699 but he used to say the only difference 01:56:29.699 --> 01:56:31.619 between you 01:56:31.619 --> 01:56:35.480 and the stars is time 01:56:43.380 --> 01:56:45.600 is there a way to share this with my 01:56:45.600 --> 01:56:48.179 crew Bonnie my small group 01:56:48.179 --> 01:56:50.100 um 01:56:50.100 --> 01:56:52.139 um the recording David 01:56:52.139 --> 01:56:56.639 yeah if anyone can share any recordings 01:56:56.639 --> 01:56:57.920 yeah 01:56:57.920 --> 01:57:00.540 I'm happy that you asked because 01:57:00.540 --> 01:57:02.219 everybody should you just should have 01:57:02.219 --> 01:57:04.080 consent of everyone 01:57:04.080 --> 01:57:06.179 because I don't think something like 01:57:06.179 --> 01:57:08.119 that happened today but sometimes 01:57:08.119 --> 01:57:12.800 sometimes these recordings get a little 01:57:14.159 --> 01:57:16.679 um what we don't do is don't share them 01:57:16.679 --> 01:57:19.320 in a way that they can go around social 01:57:19.320 --> 01:57:22.320 media like 01:57:22.320 --> 01:57:24.320 um 01:57:24.320 --> 01:57:26.880 just ask people not to then all right 01:57:26.880 --> 01:57:28.679 this would be a private group yeah and 01:57:28.679 --> 01:57:30.719 then they asked them not to share an 01:57:30.719 --> 01:57:34.159 opinion around social media 01:57:35.719 --> 01:57:39.239 but how do you share off the platform 01:57:39.239 --> 01:57:42.860 yeah just have them yeah 01:57:42.860 --> 01:57:45.659 exactly you got straight to Youtube It's 01:57:45.659 --> 01:57:47.940 unlisted it's not private 01:57:47.940 --> 01:57:50.400 so if you go off of sub stack just to 01:57:50.400 --> 01:57:51.780 the YouTube 01:57:51.780 --> 01:57:53.820 does that make sense yeah they can just 01:57:53.820 --> 01:57:55.980 watch it on YouTube but what you don't 01:57:55.980 --> 01:57:57.900 want them to do is go on Twitter then 01:57:57.900 --> 01:58:00.179 and post post the YouTube 01:58:00.179 --> 01:58:02.159 they can then send it to someone else 01:58:02.159 --> 01:58:05.040 via email it just I don't want the link 01:58:05.040 --> 01:58:08.400 to go on social media 01:58:08.400 --> 01:58:10.679 right 01:58:10.679 --> 01:58:13.920 hey Bonnie how do we 01:58:13.920 --> 01:58:16.440 um get you up to number one on sub stack 01:58:16.440 --> 01:58:19.500 what's what's I don't know Sandy asked 01:58:19.500 --> 01:58:21.659 me like I don't even know I don't know 01:58:21.659 --> 01:58:24.179 what the criteria is Peter limber showed 01:58:24.179 --> 01:58:26.460 me that and then Sandy said well how do 01:58:26.460 --> 01:58:28.139 they determine and I'm like 01:58:28.139 --> 01:58:29.650 I don't know because 01:58:29.650 --> 01:58:31.380 [Music] 01:58:31.380 --> 01:58:33.800 so that's a good question you know 01:58:33.800 --> 01:58:37.380 activity subscribers or whatever 01:58:37.380 --> 01:58:39.599 uh but it'll be fun to be number one 01:58:39.599 --> 01:58:41.820 even if it's just you know for like a 01:58:41.820 --> 01:58:44.480 day or something 01:58:47.599 --> 01:58:51.119 let's do it so potential States exist in 01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:53.719 the universe 01:58:53.940 --> 01:58:55.860 thank you my friends it's a fantastic 01:58:55.860 --> 01:58:57.960 conversation 01:58:57.960 --> 01:59:00.239 um have a good day 01:59:00.239 --> 01:59:02.840 agree ## Cohort 5 00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:08.880 okay 00:00:20.279 --> 00:00:23.600 here we are 00:00:23.900 --> 00:00:26.939 denim ultimate 00:00:26.939 --> 00:00:30.240 word that starts with a P 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:33.740 uh interestingly 00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:39.719 one time I was on a call with you know 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:41.820 one of these these call center people 00:00:41.820 --> 00:00:44.399 and I was reading back a code tour and I 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.879 said p as in ptarmigen 00:00:47.879 --> 00:00:49.739 what's this look 00:00:49.739 --> 00:00:52.200 uh that didn't work 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.300 um 00:00:54.300 --> 00:00:58.100 so what do we want to talk about today 00:00:58.100 --> 00:01:02.280 uh we're at the second to the last 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.379 this is the second to the last of the 00:01:04.379 --> 00:01:06.479 first to the last this is the first to 00:01:06.479 --> 00:01:08.220 the last 00:01:08.220 --> 00:01:11.400 session but I think usually we call it 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.560 the second to the last right but if 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.240 you're second to the last or third in 00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:16.619 line 00:01:16.619 --> 00:01:19.260 this is very confusing these things are 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:21.659 very confusing to me today 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.880 oh yeah 00:01:23.880 --> 00:01:28.439 um I'll have to ask Chad GPT about that 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:32.340 so it's an off by one error it's off by 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:35.520 one error exactly 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:38.820 this is the world we have to live in so 00:01:38.820 --> 00:01:41.600 confusing 00:01:41.820 --> 00:01:42.540 um 00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:46.320 which reminds me of a great video that 00:01:46.320 --> 00:01:48.479 I'll try to attach to the comments 00:01:48.479 --> 00:01:50.939 section of this 00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:53.720 recap 00:01:54.060 --> 00:01:57.659 um okay so it's a recap on what we've 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:00.240 been doing one of the things we can try 00:02:00.240 --> 00:02:02.700 to do or I'll put out there I don't 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:05.460 think we necessarily could go out want 00:02:05.460 --> 00:02:07.500 to go at it directly and this was the 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:09.599 problem same problem we used to have in 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:11.459 my Master's course and toward the end of 00:02:11.459 --> 00:02:14.340 the Master's course we would do this one 00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:17.819 session where 00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:20.220 we would help each other like people 00:02:20.220 --> 00:02:22.560 would complain like what I'm doing is 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.540 really great and every weekend I go home 00:02:24.540 --> 00:02:26.700 and my husband says oh you know you can 00:02:26.700 --> 00:02:28.500 see him all she jazzed up and he says oh 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.300 what are you been talking about and and 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:32.700 as soon as I start to talk either it 00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:34.200 sounds stupid 00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:38.879 or I have nothing to say and so this is 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.519 not a problem for you to worry about 00:02:41.519 --> 00:02:44.220 because it doesn't mean that whatever 00:02:44.220 --> 00:02:46.980 we're talking about hasn't landed but it 00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:50.580 is a obstacle to spreading the word 00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:51.900 right I mean you don't have to worry 00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:53.760 about it in terms of your own self you 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:56.099 know that something is in you and this 00:02:56.099 --> 00:02:58.440 and that that's not what it's meant to 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:02.180 be but there is this uh pernicious 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:06.180 obstacle uh 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:08.099 yeah 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:09.540 um so that's something we can play 00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:12.120 around with and I only bring it in 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.540 because of it reminded me of the end of 00:03:15.540 --> 00:03:18.120 the Master's classes but 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:21.360 um yeah but whatever whatever we want we 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.459 want to talk about 00:03:23.459 --> 00:03:24.739 um 00:03:24.739 --> 00:03:27.840 I totally agree with you I 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:30.300 plant one of my friends on the zoom call 00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:32.940 he said he might talk with you he 00:03:32.940 --> 00:03:35.400 reviewed one of the meetings I don't 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:38.940 know if he ever did or or printed things 00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:41.340 in but he asked me what does Bonnie said 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:44.819 this week I I couldn't come up with it 00:03:44.819 --> 00:03:47.580 and I felt exactly the same way as hard 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:49.019 to describe 00:03:49.019 --> 00:03:52.680 but I think the reviewing what he did of 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:56.159 the possibly the last cohort 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:00.060 fourth maybe uh he said he really 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:02.700 had some questions uh obviously he would 00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:04.680 but uh 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.000 uh 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:10.640 anyway I'm just agreeing with you 00:04:12.659 --> 00:04:17.519 enough said go on no no I'll show you 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:18.959 something interesting 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.019 um 00:04:21.050 --> 00:04:22.460 [Music] 00:04:22.460 --> 00:04:25.020 my computer's slow today and understand 00:04:25.020 --> 00:04:27.660 why it's just not right there hold on 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:30.440 here we come 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:39.960 all right 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:44.639 um here's something interesting that 00:04:45.479 --> 00:04:48.320 uh 00:04:49.320 --> 00:04:52.620 so can you all see this 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:56.400 this is a um really cool 00:04:56.400 --> 00:04:57.900 um 00:04:57.900 --> 00:05:01.800 a really cool uh free online thing 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.340 called pod smart and it will take audio 00:05:05.340 --> 00:05:08.580 recordings and you can upload them and 00:05:08.580 --> 00:05:10.380 again then it does this meta summary so 00:05:10.380 --> 00:05:12.840 this is the audio recording of our first 00:05:12.840 --> 00:05:14.340 recap 00:05:14.340 --> 00:05:17.460 and and the speakers delve into topics 00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:19.259 related to organizing conversation 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:21.360 session writing processes body awareness 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:23.160 integration of digital Nomads they also 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:24.539 touching the costs at the apocal 00:05:24.539 --> 00:05:26.340 technology addiction evolving 00:05:26.340 --> 00:05:28.259 relationship too blah blah blah gives 00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:29.820 you this meta summary 00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:35.340 and then it organizes it into topics 00:05:35.340 --> 00:05:39.020 uh this should be bolded 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.720 um 00:05:49.380 --> 00:05:51.600 findability remember this those of you 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:53.580 that were there 00:05:53.580 --> 00:05:56.580 um and then here's the transcript 00:05:56.580 --> 00:05:57.600 um 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.900 and of course it makes certain mistakes 00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:02.900 um 00:06:02.940 --> 00:06:06.479 but in in the transcript but 00:06:06.479 --> 00:06:07.380 um 00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:09.600 and then it goes on and on and on and on 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:15.139 and on and on and on and then we have 00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:19.139 number two is here and then that is 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:22.259 summary number two uh significance of 00:06:22.259 --> 00:06:24.180 adding a naive perspective to a rowing 00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:25.319 team if you remember that the 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:26.880 exploration of the feminine face of God 00:06:26.880 --> 00:06:28.680 the challenge is faced by newcomers and 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:29.880 established groups the importance of 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:31.259 collective presence and feedback and 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:33.300 Leadership teams to transfer men of 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:35.520 power of dance and music personal growth 00:06:35.520 --> 00:06:37.919 self-awareness I mean it makes you feel 00:06:37.919 --> 00:06:40.979 like no one's over exhausted the episode 00:06:40.979 --> 00:06:42.780 Begins by highlighting significance 00:06:42.780 --> 00:06:45.840 adding more naive rowing team blah blah 00:06:45.840 --> 00:06:47.699 blah power dance the Jewish woman 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:50.340 Shekinah the Texas integrating minded 00:06:50.340 --> 00:06:52.199 body Torah within the speakers all this 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.539 challenge Vision newcomers we it goes 00:06:54.539 --> 00:06:56.699 over and over authors experience a new 00:06:56.699 --> 00:06:59.639 group in the role as a disrupter Shares 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:00.720 are reflecting their personal Journey 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.460 conclude Simplicity natural experience 00:07:02.460 --> 00:07:04.560 profound and complexity on Highlights 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.720 emphasizes all this stuff and then here 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.240 are the it picks these out you know it 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:10.919 picks these titles up how New 00:07:10.919 --> 00:07:12.780 Perspectives enthusiasm exploring the 00:07:12.780 --> 00:07:14.220 meaning of Shekinah and the Torah don't 00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:15.660 remember that unless it's been peeing 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:17.819 navigate getting group dynamics and 00:07:17.819 --> 00:07:19.080 fresh perspective exploring 00:07:19.080 --> 00:07:20.400 transformation and common goals 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:22.259 observations on Collective presence and 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:24.419 personal growth Exploring Creation 00:07:24.419 --> 00:07:26.819 condescending and so one of the things 00:07:26.819 --> 00:07:28.680 about this what I like is you could come 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.479 home all exhausted from one of these 00:07:30.479 --> 00:07:33.660 weekends and just slap this document on 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:37.020 the table when they ask you like what 00:07:37.020 --> 00:07:39.060 did you guys talk about you just slapped 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:41.039 this document so this is just two of 00:07:41.039 --> 00:07:45.599 them and there's 58 pages in 25 800 00:07:45.599 --> 00:07:47.220 words 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:49.319 um so 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:50.819 um 00:07:50.819 --> 00:07:55.220 yeah so uh 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:01.940 that's that's one way to look at it 00:08:11.460 --> 00:08:16.160 so many words so many words 00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:18.900 well let me say this we didn't speak 00:08:18.900 --> 00:08:20.460 that many words because it doesn't 00:08:20.460 --> 00:08:22.199 matter summary and then it does a good 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:23.699 thing and then it does the transcript 00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:26.639 but I'm I'm just saying 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:30.240 it can collect into a document because I 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.279 asked I asked it to do a long summary 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.159 which does all those all those things 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.260 actually the second one was a long 00:08:37.260 --> 00:08:39.000 summary the first was a medium summary 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:42.479 the medium summary is better I think but 00:08:42.479 --> 00:08:44.539 um 00:08:45.060 --> 00:08:49.860 but it's an interesting way to relate to 00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:51.779 you know the first the first person 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:54.480 experience of it 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.160 um 00:08:56.160 --> 00:08:57.959 and I know we do these transcripts right 00:08:57.959 --> 00:09:00.120 now but the this meta summaries and the 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.980 summaries are interesting because of the 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:04.980 way it 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:09.000 creates these topics you know that then 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.580 need to be unpacked so 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:14.600 that's interesting 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:19.260 what was the name of the tool that you 00:09:19.260 --> 00:09:21.779 used to do that it's it's just called 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:25.260 pod smart dot AI it's either podsmart 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:30.060 ai.com or pods podsmart.ai 00:09:30.300 --> 00:09:31.620 um 00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:33.720 um 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:35.820 it's free until you start using it too 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:37.500 much then it's like nine dollars a week 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.480 or something but 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.260 um let me just say this if you use it it 00:09:43.260 --> 00:09:47.339 it says it will use transcribe MP m4as 00:09:47.339 --> 00:09:51.600 and and zoom gives you the audio in m4a 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:55.019 format but I always get an error message 00:09:55.019 --> 00:09:57.959 so I have to use a converter to convert 00:09:57.959 --> 00:10:00.899 the m4a into MP3 and I'm not sure if 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.360 it's my system or they got a bug or 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:04.680 something 00:10:04.680 --> 00:10:05.519 um 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.680 um so 00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:10.140 um I I haven't it would be nice if you 00:10:10.140 --> 00:10:12.600 could just drop the the zoom audio into 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.580 pod smart 00:10:14.580 --> 00:10:17.279 um but for some reason in both attempts 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.680 like I tried three times in both 00:10:19.680 --> 00:10:21.360 sessions and I couldn't get it to take 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.200 an M for it 00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:29.640 I have a question about what you want 00:10:29.640 --> 00:10:31.320 what we're going to do after this 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.420 there's one more session which I I'll 00:10:33.420 --> 00:10:36.420 only partially be there for and then 00:10:36.420 --> 00:10:39.300 what's the plan there's a summer off or 00:10:39.300 --> 00:10:41.700 uh and then you're gonna do that other 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:44.899 course and then start something up again 00:10:44.899 --> 00:10:47.940 or can you talk about that a little bit 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:50.399 Yeah so the other course doesn't really 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:52.860 have anything to do with this 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:53.959 um 00:10:53.959 --> 00:10:57.060 you know with what we're doing here 00:10:57.060 --> 00:11:02.339 um except that I like to make available 00:11:02.339 --> 00:11:04.440 you know my deal when I do courses with 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.339 other other academies or other 00:11:07.339 --> 00:11:10.680 institutions is that I get to make 00:11:10.680 --> 00:11:12.660 available the recordings to the paid 00:11:12.660 --> 00:11:15.360 subscribers of the pop-up school so it's 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.480 kind of an added benefit I know some of 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.579 you are going to be in the course which 00:11:20.579 --> 00:11:22.560 is really cool because it's different 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:25.920 than we're doing here and I hope that 00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:29.040 the Parallax type people who tend to be 00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:31.860 more like digital Nomads and kind of 00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:33.779 street smart and 00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:37.500 a little more aggressive than we are uh 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:39.839 it's nice to have a different kind kind 00:11:39.839 --> 00:11:42.000 of an audience you know and see how that 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.040 I am going to have a conversation with 00:11:44.040 --> 00:11:46.380 David Kaley who is 00:11:46.380 --> 00:11:47.839 um 00:11:47.839 --> 00:11:52.560 lifelong friend and the biographer of 00:11:52.560 --> 00:11:55.800 Ivan illit and if you've seen the course 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:57.000 content 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.399 I've set it up to be very pop of 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:00.540 school-like because I have these 00:12:00.540 --> 00:12:03.000 provocations right like these things 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.760 that Ivan Elliott said that go against 00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:09.240 the grain of what our community you know 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.560 Gaia I mean the certain communities 00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:16.260 might really like how how can we be fans 00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:18.540 of him and it yet he says these things 00:12:18.540 --> 00:12:21.300 and ends with this great provocation 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:24.240 about well the Good Samaritan which we 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.700 know but this whole thing that he talked 00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:27.680 about 00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:30.839 uh God didn't become man he became and 00:12:30.839 --> 00:12:34.620 fleshed right and this of course is a is 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:35.339 a 00:12:35.339 --> 00:12:37.440 Prime pop-up thing so there's some 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:38.820 overlap but 00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:41.160 and the and uh 00:12:41.160 --> 00:12:43.620 um the the second the third module on 00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:46.920 the communal self uh will be familiar to 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:49.320 you but again having I want to make it 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.760 more provocative depending upon who's 00:12:50.760 --> 00:12:52.260 there and having a certain kind of edge 00:12:52.260 --> 00:12:54.420 to it so 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:58.320 um that's running in uh every Sunday in 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:01.380 October uh September it's it said it 00:13:01.380 --> 00:13:03.120 started on September 3rd but we pushed 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.440 it back one week because of David 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:10.019 Kaylee's schedule so now what we have uh 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:13.019 I'll share my screen again and what we 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:16.200 have coming here and then maybe we could 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:17.760 talk about this because I'm not quite 00:13:17.760 --> 00:13:20.760 sure what to do is 00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:22.200 um 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.139 everything we've been doing today I mean 00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:27.779 this year is called background in other 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:30.300 words we needed to understand the pieces 00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:32.339 quote unquote 00:13:32.339 --> 00:13:35.639 um uh we needed to understand the pieces 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.279 in order to develop the new theory of 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:39.720 the body 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.579 and so 00:13:41.579 --> 00:13:43.639 um 00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:45.839 uh 00:13:45.839 --> 00:13:48.779 um this is the wrong screen 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:52.160 um and where am I 00:13:52.160 --> 00:13:55.920 uh yuck 00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:58.980 okay okay so 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:01.040 um 00:14:01.380 --> 00:14:04.740 so these so we're so part two is 00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:08.339 developing this new theory of the body 00:14:08.339 --> 00:14:12.420 um and we need to start thinking of the 00:14:12.420 --> 00:14:14.040 body not from a first personal 00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:16.740 experience which is we use that to 00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:20.820 understand our body but to figure out 00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:22.800 the collective 00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:26.279 aspect of the body to 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.579 um so September is just origins of the 00:14:29.579 --> 00:14:32.880 body this we're going to talk about we 00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:35.399 put the Mind back into the body during 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:37.620 the these sessions I'm going to try to 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:40.079 put the body back into nature and the 00:14:40.079 --> 00:14:41.699 cosmos 00:14:41.699 --> 00:14:43.380 um 00:14:43.380 --> 00:14:45.060 so 00:14:45.060 --> 00:14:46.139 um 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:47.940 that 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:48.980 um 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.060 that that's that's what we'll do in 00:14:51.060 --> 00:14:53.220 September now to October then now we 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:55.980 have to move into this human culture and 00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:57.660 this notion of collective Consciousness 00:14:57.660 --> 00:15:00.540 and a compound individual 00:15:00.540 --> 00:15:02.959 um try to think of ourselves 00:15:02.959 --> 00:15:07.680 as uh in these collectivized senses 00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:09.240 November we're going to talk about the 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.339 moral animal 00:15:11.339 --> 00:15:12.420 um 00:15:12.420 --> 00:15:15.000 to figure out like 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:15.600 um 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:21.180 what is it ours to do in this in this 00:15:21.180 --> 00:15:24.120 in this whole Collective body 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.000 um and then in December we'll talk about 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.180 individuation in the new human 00:15:30.180 --> 00:15:32.040 um something forward-looking now I don't 00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:33.899 know what the schedule should be I want 00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:36.720 to do something different 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.959 um I have some ideas 00:15:39.959 --> 00:15:44.880 um but what's tricky about this is 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:46.680 so many time zones so many different 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:48.300 schedules 00:15:48.300 --> 00:15:51.360 um and it's and it's hard to 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.000 um accommodate 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.620 um 00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:58.440 yeah so part of me wants to do like a 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.240 longer immersion but then there's fewer 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.959 times fewer times you meet and so you 00:16:03.959 --> 00:16:06.180 have to try to hit a sweet spot which is 00:16:06.180 --> 00:16:08.519 impossible given all the different 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.880 schedules and the time zones 00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:14.459 in the pop-up school so 00:16:14.459 --> 00:16:16.459 um 00:16:16.680 --> 00:16:18.959 um I'm not sure 00:16:18.959 --> 00:16:20.279 um 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.279 I'm not sure I'm not sure what the what 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:24.720 if it's going to be different than what 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:26.279 we've been doing just just kind of Shake 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.779 It Up 00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:32.940 um but I'm not sure uh what it will 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:35.399 will look like yet I don't know any 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.380 suggestions what you're hungry for 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.459 I mean one thing go ahead oh I was just 00:16:50.459 --> 00:16:53.279 gonna say I I found that um when we were 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.019 doing those like four postures and I 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:57.420 know there was hesitancy to doing that 00:16:57.420 --> 00:16:59.339 online but I found that really helpful 00:16:59.339 --> 00:17:01.259 those were some really helpful sessions 00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:03.240 for me those um practicing those four 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:05.959 postures together 00:17:06.959 --> 00:17:09.000 yeah we'll probably do more of that 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.799 stuff in the festival and less 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.780 presentation stuff and just because 00:17:12.780 --> 00:17:14.640 that's I hear that a lot and so maybe 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.400 the whole festival will just do 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.079 um certain types of meditations or 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.179 practices 00:17:21.179 --> 00:17:23.040 um 00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:26.100 one of the things I'm thinking is to run 00:17:26.100 --> 00:17:28.220 the 00:17:28.220 --> 00:17:31.080 these these sessions it's all very 00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:33.960 tricky to run these sessions more as 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.480 like each session 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.140 as a as a course 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.860 um so that people can can like okay the 00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:46.140 first session I mean it's so cheap but 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.120 like 00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:51.539 to promote each side each module as a 00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:53.100 course Standalone course that would cost 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:55.080 somebody 40 bucks right to sign up for 00:17:55.080 --> 00:17:58.080 the month and then maybe try to get some 00:17:58.080 --> 00:17:58.980 more 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.100 um 00:18:01.679 --> 00:18:03.780 some more engagement but the problem 00:18:03.780 --> 00:18:05.160 with that is that a lot of people 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.020 haven't done any of the background work 00:18:07.020 --> 00:18:10.740 and so it gets it gets 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:13.500 it gets to be difficult because 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:17.059 I tend to try to give 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.919 you know what will end up happening is 00:18:19.919 --> 00:18:21.360 we'll just start making all the 00:18:21.360 --> 00:18:24.120 distinctions that we made all year and 00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:26.640 not getting to the to the meat of it 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.120 yeah Charlie 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.020 so 00:18:31.020 --> 00:18:33.720 I uh I just wanted to say that I I came 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.120 in like I think more than halfway 00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:38.580 through uh you know and only subscribed 00:18:38.580 --> 00:18:40.799 to the pop-up school I think I'm not 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.020 even sure if it was April or May but so 00:18:43.020 --> 00:18:44.820 I was just looking back at what I missed 00:18:44.820 --> 00:18:45.960 and 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:46.679 um 00:18:46.679 --> 00:18:51.720 that it's it's a lot even with just the 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.820 half that I got and I also haven't been 00:18:53.820 --> 00:18:55.740 attending and you know I really 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.020 appreciate you making the effort to try 00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:00.360 to hit such 00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:03.000 sort of it's different than anything 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.980 I've ever engaged in because of the way 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:07.799 that all the times are so sort of all 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.900 over the place which I get why you do it 00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:12.419 but what it means is that I'm just not 00:19:12.419 --> 00:19:14.460 able to attend every session because I 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:17.400 work full-time and um have a pretty full 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.940 life so I'm I'm very interested you know 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.100 as I was just looking back now I really 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:25.679 wish that I'd caught the affect one at 00:19:25.679 --> 00:19:28.080 the beginning but my psychiatrist had 00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:30.660 pointed me towards Sylvan Tompkins and I 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.820 read a whole bunch of stuff you know a 00:19:32.820 --> 00:19:36.419 year or so ago on that so I get it but 00:19:36.419 --> 00:19:40.860 um I'm personally finding that 00:19:40.860 --> 00:19:43.860 it's just incredibly challenging like 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:46.260 every effort that I make to really tune 00:19:46.260 --> 00:19:49.500 in to my own body is 00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:54.539 sort of repulsed or repelled by I think 00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:58.020 my childhood experiences you know which 00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:00.679 I won't go on 00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:06.720 us you know uh trauma response so in any 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.360 case I just wanted to offer that there's 00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:11.160 no real question or 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.160 um 00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:20.220 yeah this is a design problem okay so we 00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:22.799 get this right we get it from the sense 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.960 of the design problem 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.799 um and and again I offer a lot of time 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:30.660 spots so different people can come in 00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:35.520 but because many people come often then 00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:37.740 if you come to the third time slot we've 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.360 already built 00:20:39.360 --> 00:20:42.480 build capacity so that's I mean that's a 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.059 that's a good thing and one of the 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:48.620 things that I'm hoping we can do and 00:20:48.620 --> 00:20:51.320 which is good about playing with this AI 00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:55.200 is to turn this into 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.840 um like more conventional courses it's 00:20:57.840 --> 00:20:59.700 it's the same it's true for like we have 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:02.039 all these like 9 500 free subscribers 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:03.960 and part of it is they're just 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.340 subscribers but part of it is that in no 00:21:08.340 --> 00:21:10.860 way are they gonna you know they do they 00:21:10.860 --> 00:21:13.260 have the time to spend 00:21:13.260 --> 00:21:13.860 um 00:21:13.860 --> 00:21:16.320 in the in the kinds of course courses 00:21:16.320 --> 00:21:20.280 that that we do so could we have little 00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:24.299 little mini courses on 00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:27.660 on on on just these modules 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:29.660 um 00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:33.360 in a sort of popcorn pop of popcorn way 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:36.419 and how how to design to how to design 00:21:36.419 --> 00:21:38.220 that so 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:41.220 um if you remember I don't uh some of us 00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:43.200 remember like 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.700 um 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.100 um Phoebe was having difficulty and I'm 00:21:47.100 --> 00:21:48.539 like wait till we get to the imaginal 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.980 because that will be you know that's 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:52.260 where she shined and so in some sense 00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:54.419 you could have people 00:21:54.419 --> 00:21:56.400 um uh 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.260 um 00:21:58.260 --> 00:22:00.419 you know pick what their their most 00:22:00.419 --> 00:22:02.460 interested in 00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:04.500 um but 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:05.760 um 00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:09.179 yeah so this this question of pedagogy 00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:12.539 and what to do with it and 00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:14.220 um 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:16.740 and also you know there's a question I I 00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:20.220 think of of some of you uh wanting to 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.780 host 00:22:21.780 --> 00:22:24.900 um some some 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:30.120 some like novice uh sessions on some of 00:22:30.120 --> 00:22:32.340 those modules you know 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:34.320 um there's a there's a huge number of 00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:37.100 people who would like to be 00:22:37.100 --> 00:22:40.320 participate that would like 00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:40.980 um 00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:44.460 it translated into to more kind of 00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:48.539 concrete practical practical things 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:50.340 um 00:22:50.340 --> 00:22:52.559 yeah so you build a cohort like how many 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.720 people can meet on Thursdays at this 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.900 time and this is led by so and so and 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:01.440 and and it would be around the topic the 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.679 main topic would be one or two of the 00:23:04.679 --> 00:23:07.860 modules that say affect and something 00:23:07.860 --> 00:23:10.320 else but 00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:13.080 um the person hosting it will have 00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:15.120 done all the backgrounds so they can 00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:16.980 make distinctions like someone's going 00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:19.020 to ask you when you're an athlete well 00:23:19.020 --> 00:23:20.520 what is it what's the isn't that the 00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:23.100 imaginal how do I know 00:23:23.100 --> 00:23:24.780 um and 00:23:24.780 --> 00:23:26.340 um 00:23:26.340 --> 00:23:29.640 and so it's important to be able to 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.799 make those make those distinctions so 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.860 that's another thing I'm thinking about 00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:36.419 um 00:23:36.419 --> 00:23:40.140 um like three weeks same time same place 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:45.059 around one topic and and then the fourth 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.820 week maybe a couple of sessions where 00:23:47.820 --> 00:23:50.100 everybody who have been doing the side 00:23:50.100 --> 00:23:51.900 sessions 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.900 um can come together and ask me 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:57.480 questions or something like that and 00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.039 if the teachers were there it would be 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.700 great because then they could clarify 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.380 you know sometimes people ask questions 00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:06.059 you don't know really where it comes 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:07.440 from and someone can say oh we were 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:09.960 talking about this and this was the gist 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:11.700 of it or something like that I mean 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:13.740 there's so much demand 00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:17.760 um it's really the problem is how to 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:20.400 design something that doesn't ruin what 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.679 the pop-up school is 00:24:22.679 --> 00:24:24.480 um 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.760 but 00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.640 um extends it so this is also 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.980 interesting because you know there are a 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:34.200 couple of organizations that would like 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.059 to 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:39.179 um take over the public school and do 00:24:39.179 --> 00:24:42.720 courses but then again it becomes very 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.020 course-like and and and not with the 00:24:46.020 --> 00:24:48.000 pop-up School how the pop-up School 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.940 builds capacity so I don't know it's an 00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:52.860 interesting question I mean these are 00:24:52.860 --> 00:24:55.980 not unsolvable questions there's just 00:24:55.980 --> 00:25:00.240 it's kind of like what do they call uh 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.179 when you have 00:25:03.179 --> 00:25:06.480 like it's like the curse of too much or 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.760 the the burden of a feast there's a 00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:10.440 phrase for it like 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.799 the problem of having too many choices 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:18.419 or uh too much richness or something 00:25:18.419 --> 00:25:21.059 so 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.340 um yeah and I love the fact Charlie that 00:25:23.340 --> 00:25:25.140 people like you show up because it gives 00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:29.039 us a bass line to notice the parameters 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.340 of what what doesn't work you know or 00:25:32.340 --> 00:25:34.919 what is the threads that are cut you 00:25:34.919 --> 00:25:37.740 know and then they're not in and the 00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:40.380 question of every time like there's 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:42.179 other people like my friend eche right 00:25:42.179 --> 00:25:43.740 you all see her I've known her forever 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:46.260 she tries really hard and she's really 00:25:46.260 --> 00:25:49.080 smart but she also knows that she she 00:25:49.080 --> 00:25:51.419 has she's gonna ask a question that's 00:25:51.419 --> 00:25:53.520 been answered by this systematic 00:25:53.520 --> 00:25:55.559 progress we've been making 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.620 and so this is someone like I know so 00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:00.960 many people like that that 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:01.679 um 00:26:01.679 --> 00:26:04.440 if if it could be more if they could 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.020 learn more on their own 00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:09.840 um I'm not sure how that would happen 00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:13.020 um without because you know because 00:26:13.020 --> 00:26:14.700 you're not gonna actually learn things 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:18.360 by watching our video Recaps because 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:19.799 they're too 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.679 um live in participatory so 00:26:22.679 --> 00:26:25.980 um these are interesting questions and 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:27.840 um 00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:30.679 uh 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:34.760 I'm not sure how to 00:26:35.159 --> 00:26:37.140 I'm not sure what which one has more 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:39.720 energy for me in the first place 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:41.760 and so I don't put a lot of energy into 00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:44.340 if I if I could see one and ah this 00:26:44.340 --> 00:26:45.960 really grabbed me then I would put in 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.960 energy into designing for it 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.880 um but right now I just see all these 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:55.640 this possibility and the lack of 00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:59.700 uh the lack of uh Focus 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:01.320 um 00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:04.799 and I'm I'm thinking of this the fall 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:06.720 courses this is like what we're going to 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:08.400 do in the fall is like a is a big deal 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.020 it's a big challenge yeah Claudia 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:16.080 yeah I was wondering whether 00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:17.940 um you have plans to create some kind of 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.460 you know stand-alone 00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:23.159 book or textbook on let's say the theory 00:27:23.159 --> 00:27:24.600 of the body 00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:25.740 um 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:28.260 like a textbook 00:27:28.260 --> 00:27:31.140 um yeah that that could serve as a kind 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:33.360 of introductions with people 00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:35.640 um There's Something About Books people 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.100 people sort of make the time a little 00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:40.760 bit for books 00:27:41.120 --> 00:27:43.740 yeah so 00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:45.779 you know Jonathan Ralston has been very 00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:49.559 good uh every couple of months he asks 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.020 me how am I doing on the book 00:27:52.020 --> 00:27:54.480 the book 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.279 um 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.380 this has been a problem for me for a 00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.820 long time first of all one of the 00:27:59.820 --> 00:28:02.940 reasons why is because I you know I was 00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:06.120 a landscaper and a horse person and I 00:28:06.120 --> 00:28:07.740 read a lot of books but I'm not an 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.080 academic and I didn't have to write a 00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:13.980 lot of papers and so there's it doesn't 00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:17.520 come easy to me and then 00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:19.580 um 00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:22.380 as as I think 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:24.900 this is all kinds of justification I 00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:25.860 guess 00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:28.140 um but just more of describing my 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.120 journey rather than trying to justify it 00:28:30.120 --> 00:28:32.279 and then like when I get onto something 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.520 like my before Socrates series like that 00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:39.539 was 140 Pages at the end of the day so I 00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:41.880 can sustain something 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:44.120 um I'm a little I'm a little 00:28:44.120 --> 00:28:46.980 disappointed that I have more energy to 00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:49.679 critique you know to make up things as a 00:28:49.679 --> 00:28:52.200 critique as I go along the way I noticed 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.700 that that uh 00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:59.580 that is something I want to leave behind 00:28:59.580 --> 00:29:00.840 um 00:29:00.840 --> 00:29:05.159 but uh and I have hundreds and hundreds 00:29:05.159 --> 00:29:08.039 of pages of written on in one note about 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:09.840 different projects that could go into 00:29:09.840 --> 00:29:11.279 this book 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.000 um but I don't see 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.880 you see this is the problem with very 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.679 late stage if you want to call it that 00:29:19.679 --> 00:29:24.020 cognition is that it's it's no longer 00:29:24.020 --> 00:29:26.820 systematized I I don't 00:29:26.820 --> 00:29:28.559 I don't 00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.960 have two things they don't have a third 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.240 person perspective on myself and I can't 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:35.700 systematize my own work because I 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:36.899 basically 00:29:36.899 --> 00:29:41.100 am writing like I'm dancing entirely 00:29:41.100 --> 00:29:44.940 free of my mind so so this is weird for 00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:46.140 me because 00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.480 when I used to run the landscape 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.399 operations and I used to take these 00:29:50.399 --> 00:29:52.020 tests like what you're really good at 00:29:52.020 --> 00:29:57.360 for your for your uh kind of job like I 00:29:57.360 --> 00:30:01.320 not only score way like at the top of 00:30:01.320 --> 00:30:03.480 systemization 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.760 like women there's two there's scores 00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:07.860 for women and men because women are less 00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:10.140 systematizers I score the top one 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:13.320 percentile for men for systematization 00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:15.299 and so 00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:18.179 um so 00:30:18.179 --> 00:30:20.299 um 00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:22.919 so Jonathan's been helping me because I 00:30:22.919 --> 00:30:24.480 send him all kinds of stuff and he's 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.820 helping me see it in a systemic fashion 00:30:26.820 --> 00:30:30.620 you know and and trying to he's very 00:30:30.620 --> 00:30:33.419 systematic you know and trying to find 00:30:33.419 --> 00:30:35.279 he keeps on telling me just right you 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.039 don't have to see the thread 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.080 um so 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:41.760 um so there's there's a couple of things 00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:43.620 there's 00:30:43.620 --> 00:30:47.220 um the new theory of the body 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:49.380 so right now what we're looking at is 00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:52.200 not a huge textbook like a new Theory 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:54.360 the body although this AI I think can 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:55.559 help 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.320 um but a 00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:00.899 um the the Project's called The Once and 00:31:00.899 --> 00:31:02.520 Future god 00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:05.640 um perspective uh has pretty much 00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:07.799 guaranteed they'll they will publish it 00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:09.240 for me they're trying to get me to write 00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:10.980 it and come into a publication date 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:13.559 there's a lot of pressure 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:15.480 um and 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.539 um 00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.320 and it will contain it will be what 00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:25.860 we're trying to do is take things like 00:31:25.860 --> 00:31:27.539 um very complex potential States 00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:29.940 cognition in the world the new theory of 00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:31.260 the body 00:31:31.260 --> 00:31:34.200 and see how they could be a collection 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.240 of essays 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.760 that are enveloped around this concept 00:31:38.760 --> 00:31:40.980 of a one Once and Future God and then 00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:44.399 like the last essay would be the ones 00:31:44.399 --> 00:31:46.200 the once in future God right you can see 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.480 how that that works 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.020 um I I definitely agree that this is 00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:55.740 necessary for me to do uh because then 00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:57.779 you would get on all kinds of podcasts 00:31:57.779 --> 00:31:59.640 talking about the book and people will 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:01.140 have read the book so they will know how 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:04.919 to interview me which they don't 00:32:04.919 --> 00:32:06.360 um 00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:08.100 oh 00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:11.100 but 00:32:11.159 --> 00:32:13.799 yeah 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:16.200 it's not that I don't want to do it and 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.120 I don't feel that I'm resistant to do it 00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:19.919 and I write and I write it's just I 00:32:19.919 --> 00:32:21.779 can't see it from here to there and if 00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:24.419 you can't see it's very hard to 00:32:24.419 --> 00:32:26.399 accomplish it but this has happened to 00:32:26.399 --> 00:32:30.419 me before and once you can see it 00:32:30.419 --> 00:32:32.539 um 00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:34.740 you know even like that book chapter in 00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:38.240 the in the in the meta modern book 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:41.640 poor Jonathan you know I struggled with 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.520 it and this and that and I I declined to 00:32:44.520 --> 00:32:46.200 do it twice 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.960 and it's a really great chapter you know 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.200 and I believe he says so and 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:53.640 um 00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:56.220 yeah and so I just have to think of it 00:32:56.220 --> 00:32:58.200 as writing a bunch of chapters and then 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:02.039 letting him help me uh 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:04.559 thread it in such a way it sounds like 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.200 it's in you know if it's all fits in the 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.899 same book I got plenty of stuff 00:33:09.899 --> 00:33:12.840 that's not the problem 00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:15.600 but what happens is every time I do 00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:19.679 research and I'm writing I'm like oh 00:33:19.679 --> 00:33:22.679 I can use that and then I go back and 00:33:22.679 --> 00:33:26.399 and I ping off everything so 00:33:26.399 --> 00:33:29.100 um yeah so 00:33:29.100 --> 00:33:31.320 this is I'm not arguing with you I'm not 00:33:31.320 --> 00:33:33.720 trying to defend it I it's it's the 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:35.940 obvious thing to do 00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.940 it's so obvious it's like duh but it 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:40.980 turns out to be 00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:43.700 uh 00:33:43.860 --> 00:33:47.340 not a case of linear cause and effect 00:33:47.340 --> 00:33:50.220 someone suggested someone in the pop-up 00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:51.059 School 00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:54.299 got in touch with this Ghost Writer 00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:58.019 and it made me so mad like we have this 00:33:58.019 --> 00:33:59.640 ghost friend really she's really great 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.039 she could write so like there's 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.919 something there too like like I don't 00:34:04.919 --> 00:34:09.060 know I'd rather you know uh because it 00:34:09.060 --> 00:34:14.580 made me so mad in a funny way uh 00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:19.440 it made me realize something you know 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.480 that I didn't want to do it 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:22.679 um 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.899 yeah Holly thanks for asking the 00:34:24.899 --> 00:34:25.980 question I don't know you have a 00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:29.460 follow-up you can see I'm kind of 00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:31.859 all over the place my only follow-up is 00:34:31.859 --> 00:34:34.399 to do with the theory of the body I mean 00:34:34.399 --> 00:34:36.899 and these theory of the body would kind 00:34:36.899 --> 00:34:38.280 of change everything 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:39.599 um you know like if you think about 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.780 education it's all based on a theory of 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:44.580 the human a theory of 00:34:44.580 --> 00:34:48.859 who we are and if we've got that wrong 00:34:49.379 --> 00:34:50.760 um 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.679 and if we you know if we've got richly 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.080 you know we have a new Theory could 00:34:55.080 --> 00:34:56.099 really 00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:59.220 clarify new education you know I'd love 00:34:59.220 --> 00:35:02.040 kids to do this course 00:35:02.040 --> 00:35:04.619 yeah so this is what happens to me and 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:06.000 maybe you can help me and then I know we 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.940 have two hands raised so I start I said 00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:11.640 the same thing I'm like okay 00:35:11.640 --> 00:35:14.040 let me coming off this course let me 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:15.480 write a new theory of the body I got all 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:18.740 this course content okay then I start 00:35:18.740 --> 00:35:21.599 and I think I start to make a sentence 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.579 and then I'm like well of course I have 00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:25.680 to bring jungling in and of course this 00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:27.540 person said that and then there's Katie 00:35:27.540 --> 00:35:29.040 Lang said that about the Divide itself 00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:31.500 and I st and then and then it's like 00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:34.680 then it's like 00:35:34.680 --> 00:35:38.280 all this you know this kind of academic 00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:42.320 sort of contextualizing it comes in and 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.660 and then I realized okay you know this 00:35:45.660 --> 00:35:47.520 is going to turn into Ian mcgilchrist 00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:49.619 thing I'm not capable of a sustaining 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.320 this kind of energy over ten thousand 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.720 pages and so then I just say like like 00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:59.640 what would you just put the Mind back in 00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:01.440 the body in the body back into nature 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:03.260 and that phrase 00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:06.060 stands in for all of that and like so 00:36:06.060 --> 00:36:08.599 I'm I'm stuck between the simplest 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:11.880 caricature of what I'm doing and this 00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:15.060 other thing that happens so it's it's 00:36:15.060 --> 00:36:16.440 about 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.540 it's about 00:36:18.540 --> 00:36:21.540 how to start without 00:36:21.540 --> 00:36:23.280 feeling 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.280 that 00:36:27.540 --> 00:36:30.720 you know this situation situate these 00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:32.040 things but when you're writing a book 00:36:32.040 --> 00:36:33.599 you do I don't know 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.700 I totally agree with you and then the 00:36:35.700 --> 00:36:39.680 organism goes like that 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:42.599 children's book yeah 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:43.920 um that would that would be for someone 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:46.079 else to write I think 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.300 um you know if I see this as a thing if 00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:50.460 I had that book then people could do all 00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:53.339 these other these other things but I 00:36:53.339 --> 00:36:56.540 think I'm getting there yeah 00:36:56.640 --> 00:36:59.300 Holly 00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:01.619 yeah I mean I just wanted to offer some 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:02.700 feedback 00:37:02.700 --> 00:37:05.040 um I mean all of your writing is really 00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:07.500 for me phenomenal but some of the more 00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:09.180 profound pieces were 00:37:09.180 --> 00:37:11.339 your dispatches from Maple like where 00:37:11.339 --> 00:37:13.140 you were interweaving a personal 00:37:13.140 --> 00:37:15.960 experience in with with the theory so 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:18.599 that the two are meeting 00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:21.180 um so that really personal element 00:37:21.180 --> 00:37:22.200 um 00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:23.820 I just remember those pieces really 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:26.640 having a really profound impact 00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:28.619 and and then also thinking like you know 00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:29.880 you're writing you're writing for the 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.140 future that's that's often what I'm 00:37:31.140 --> 00:37:32.339 thinking about when I read your stuff 00:37:32.339 --> 00:37:35.400 it's like this is for like when you're 00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.320 when you're gone and we're all gone you 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.540 know people are gonna people it's like 00:37:39.540 --> 00:37:41.280 you're kind of ahead of your time and 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:43.020 it's gonna take time I think for people 00:37:43.020 --> 00:37:44.280 to 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.020 to catch up 00:37:46.020 --> 00:37:47.339 um but your work is going to be there 00:37:47.339 --> 00:37:50.280 and um what I what I really love too 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.099 about the sub stack is that it allows it 00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:55.680 allows all of us to participate in the 00:37:55.680 --> 00:37:57.119 pieces as well 00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:58.980 so I think of those as like it's like a 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:00.480 living Canon that you're creating a 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.180 library that you're creating and and we 00:38:03.180 --> 00:38:05.099 get to participate in that with comments 00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:07.020 and with um responses and then you 00:38:07.020 --> 00:38:09.780 respond back and so the future will get 00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:13.260 to see kind of the real time responses 00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:14.880 and dialogue that's being created from 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.460 the pieces versus a book you know where 00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:19.079 you're it's kind of static and you're 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.240 not getting to see how the community is 00:38:21.240 --> 00:38:25.380 participating and co-creating the work 00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:27.359 um so anyways I just wanted to offer 00:38:27.359 --> 00:38:29.160 that that feedback because 00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.940 um 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:33.000 uh yeah I also a lot of times my mind 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.859 goes is how how is how are the future 00:38:34.859 --> 00:38:36.359 generations going to be receiving this 00:38:36.359 --> 00:38:38.540 work 00:38:38.700 --> 00:38:42.300 yeah thank you for that Jonathan is very 00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:44.099 generous he's generous he says the same 00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.320 thing he's like what you we want you 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.720 know he wants to write 00:38:48.720 --> 00:38:49.619 um 00:38:49.619 --> 00:38:51.599 though he's like that people want to get 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.520 to nobody you know like they want the 00:38:53.520 --> 00:38:58.500 abstract and stuff like and and 00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:02.520 you know like like I can't tell you what 00:39:02.520 --> 00:39:03.839 it feels like you know that story I've 00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:05.520 told a million times like my mother 00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:07.320 taught me to pray and I'm like a mess 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.020 like why when I sit down and write that 00:39:10.020 --> 00:39:11.940 it's like this is like the stupidest 00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.520 thing like it's like I don't have a 00:39:14.520 --> 00:39:18.720 voice for it like like uh now if it can 00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:21.300 come out in a sub stack like that but 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:22.740 but 00:39:22.740 --> 00:39:24.660 and and I think like you're absolutely 00:39:24.660 --> 00:39:26.700 like right like one of the reasons why I 00:39:26.700 --> 00:39:29.400 can write for the pop-up school is this 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.020 problem I have with not having a third 00:39:31.020 --> 00:39:33.180 person perspective and then you you guys 00:39:33.180 --> 00:39:36.300 are like instead of an inner monologue I 00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:39.540 have this right in the in the real world 00:39:39.540 --> 00:39:41.579 um and 00:39:41.579 --> 00:39:42.480 um 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:43.619 and 00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:45.480 um and I have my elves at night I can 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:49.020 tell when I sometimes I wake up with new 00:39:49.020 --> 00:39:50.579 material and I don't know I'm I'm 00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:52.320 working at it but 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.440 um uh 00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.020 um 00:39:58.020 --> 00:40:01.800 yeah so that that process is very 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:03.780 generative for me 00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:04.619 um 00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:07.079 and uh 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:09.240 the thing about Maple like I came back 00:40:09.240 --> 00:40:11.940 from the last Maple thing which was 00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:16.020 kind of chaotic and and really 00:40:16.020 --> 00:40:17.339 um 00:40:17.339 --> 00:40:19.740 had a lot more motivation to write this 00:40:19.740 --> 00:40:21.359 because I'm like there were so many 00:40:21.359 --> 00:40:24.359 people that that really are would want 00:40:24.359 --> 00:40:26.579 want like you said documents and 00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:29.339 alternative ways to organize thoughts 00:40:29.339 --> 00:40:31.740 and stuff like that so 00:40:31.740 --> 00:40:33.900 um I I felt that there would be outside 00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:36.180 of the people in the pop-up School other 00:40:36.180 --> 00:40:38.460 people some other people would read such 00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:40.500 a thing you know 00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.839 um how did it be able to write those I'm 00:40:42.839 --> 00:40:44.940 curious for you like those dispatches 00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:46.740 what was that oh the dispatches were 00:40:46.740 --> 00:40:49.260 great I mean because I was under this 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:51.660 foul of a wonderful experience and 00:40:51.660 --> 00:40:53.880 wanted to share that 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:54.480 um 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.400 and 00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:59.720 um uh 00:41:00.839 --> 00:41:03.780 yeah but you know 00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:05.820 I was in I was in a certain 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:08.099 dispositional state where it was like 00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:11.400 being high you know 00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:16.040 um and I'm not fortunately not Pi like 00:41:16.040 --> 00:41:18.119 I was like 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:19.980 I don't know what to do I try and I 00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:22.200 tried I went back 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:25.220 it was horrible 00:41:26.640 --> 00:41:31.260 so uh it's not based on just place 00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:33.300 the place was falling apart 00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:34.619 but um 00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:37.520 Sandra 00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.260 you know I've been pondering 00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.680 your 00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:50.220 Insight guide pedagogy and I think part 00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:51.060 of 00:41:51.060 --> 00:41:53.099 um 00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:56.099 part of why I spend so much time trying 00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:59.760 to diagram and draw and do this figure 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:03.720 out the thing put the puzzle together 00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:04.500 um 00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:08.720 is because I do want to translate 00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:12.359 my sort of a combination of my 00:42:12.359 --> 00:42:16.079 experience but also there's something so 00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:18.599 deep and rich in what you're doing 00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:21.420 and you it 00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:25.380 it's it's the difference between 00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:28.800 sort of the spoon-fed version of it and 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:31.680 the Insight version of it 00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:33.260 and 00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:37.740 somewhere there's a spoon-fed version 00:42:37.740 --> 00:42:39.780 that's 00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:41.700 um that's probably not the right term 00:42:41.700 --> 00:42:43.740 but somewhere there's there's a there's 00:42:43.740 --> 00:42:45.780 a version 00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:48.599 that people could actually walk around 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.859 in and try on 00:42:51.980 --> 00:42:56.940 that's different than your writing and 00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:01.920 this the sustenance of the pop-up School 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.380 and I don't know if it's actually for 00:43:04.380 --> 00:43:06.599 you to write that Bonnie I think it's 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.140 maybe for 00:43:09.140 --> 00:43:12.720 you know the dialogue that happens on 00:43:12.720 --> 00:43:15.240 sub stack or it's maybe it comes from a 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:16.079 different 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:20.339 a different place or it comes from 00:43:20.339 --> 00:43:23.940 maybe sitting and interviewing you but 00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:26.520 not the way that we did it Ray and 00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:28.920 um Marie's house maybe a a much 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:33.420 different more free form less 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:34.560 um 00:43:34.560 --> 00:43:36.000 I don't know that felt like 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.660 interrogation to me somehow not not an 00:43:39.660 --> 00:43:41.460 interview 00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:42.240 um 00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:44.780 so I think it 00:43:44.780 --> 00:43:47.819 it's something we can work on together I 00:43:47.819 --> 00:43:50.339 mean I think it's something 00:43:50.339 --> 00:43:52.859 that you don't have to be the lone 00:43:52.859 --> 00:43:54.240 writer 00:43:54.240 --> 00:43:58.200 trying to please Academia 00:43:58.200 --> 00:44:01.020 there's something much more 00:44:01.020 --> 00:44:03.020 um 00:44:03.020 --> 00:44:04.740 basic 00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:08.700 in the experience that you're offering 00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:10.079 that 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.200 doesn't have to be a thousand footnotes 00:44:13.200 --> 00:44:16.260 and Ian mcgilchrist 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:18.540 and I understand the rabbit holes I mean 00:44:18.540 --> 00:44:20.940 I get that that should be genuine and 00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:22.859 that should be this and oh I have to 00:44:22.859 --> 00:44:25.260 bring in this person oh there's David 00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:29.460 Hinton and there's you know I get that 00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:30.359 um 00:44:30.359 --> 00:44:33.420 and at the same time 00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:36.420 I think there's just a very distilled 00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:38.280 version 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:40.859 that would not be such a struggle 00:44:40.859 --> 00:44:42.180 and 00:44:42.180 --> 00:44:44.940 I'll jump in with you any anything yeah 00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.099 no no I agree agree with you like 00:44:47.099 --> 00:44:48.540 there's definitely a thread there like 00:44:48.540 --> 00:44:51.599 I'm not I'm not worried that there's 00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.619 that that 00:44:54.839 --> 00:44:56.640 because there's definitely a thread 00:44:56.640 --> 00:44:58.440 there we see it all the time then once 00:44:58.440 --> 00:44:59.880 you get into the third then you realize 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.280 oh three months ago we were doing that 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.319 from it you know you can see that there 00:45:04.319 --> 00:45:07.619 so that's I'm not worried about that you 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.280 have to impose some kind of thread over 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:13.800 these disparate things 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.140 um and I don't want to go meta and say 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:18.060 and and figure out what that threat is 00:45:18.060 --> 00:45:21.900 this is an impossible like the next Ken 00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:23.880 Wilbur can do that or something and you 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.819 just get one of these crazy models right 00:45:26.819 --> 00:45:28.740 um but 00:45:28.740 --> 00:45:31.920 um although uh quite often ask chat pt4 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.800 I have a really someone bought me a 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.020 subscription to a really good thing 00:45:37.020 --> 00:45:38.400 that's in the whole nother thing we'll 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.260 talk about that but 00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:41.760 um uh 00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.720 the word that comes to mind is peacock 00:45:44.720 --> 00:45:49.740 uh you have to be to write a book uh to 00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:51.420 sustain the energy write a book you have 00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:53.280 to be you have to channel your internal 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:55.380 peacock 00:45:55.380 --> 00:46:00.119 um and I unders I know that energy and I 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.000 you can't force it but I'm I The Closer 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.160 I Get to 00:46:05.160 --> 00:46:07.619 we're envisioning the book The more then 00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:09.540 that nlg will come up and then I'll be 00:46:09.540 --> 00:46:11.640 able to write the book and I'm not 00:46:11.640 --> 00:46:13.200 afraid that it's not going to come up 00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:15.060 because I have this thing the inner 00:46:15.060 --> 00:46:16.619 peacock's got to come out you know and 00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:18.000 then 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:18.839 um 00:46:18.839 --> 00:46:20.880 and the inner peacock just wants to show 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:23.819 off like like I know how to do that uh 00:46:23.819 --> 00:46:25.980 everything they know and this is what 00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:27.780 we're doing and 00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:30.300 um yeah the inner Peak now the Gap flies 00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:31.800 got to die 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:33.540 um for this book 00:46:33.540 --> 00:46:40.079 um the gadfly is much more uh uh 00:46:40.200 --> 00:46:43.680 is much more enthusiastic about running 00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:46.319 the show than the the peacock 00:46:46.319 --> 00:46:49.440 um and well the paint the godfly used to 00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.420 see this thing the gadfly was the 00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:53.940 peacock right like the godfly likes to 00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:55.260 Peacock 00:46:55.260 --> 00:46:58.079 um and I and and I just need to like 00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.560 peacock the peacock and let the godfly 00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:04.980 buzz around somewhere else so yes these 00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:07.500 these these things make sense 00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:08.819 um 00:47:08.819 --> 00:47:13.020 so that is uh you could have a theory of 00:47:13.020 --> 00:47:15.540 why that's true blah blah blah women I 00:47:15.540 --> 00:47:17.520 don't want to get into that but it is 00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:20.240 what it is and so how to peacock without 00:47:20.240 --> 00:47:23.460 uh to give it a peacock energy from 00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:26.280 somewhere else that's not the godfly is 00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.380 the question 00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:33.119 um so uh the peacock 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:37.319 um and if the peacock comes out 00:47:37.319 --> 00:47:40.140 like the dispatches I don't think I 00:47:40.140 --> 00:47:42.599 could sustain that it could be one it 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:45.660 could be one essay in a in a collection 00:47:45.660 --> 00:47:51.060 of essays uh that level of personal 00:47:51.060 --> 00:47:52.560 um 00:47:52.560 --> 00:47:54.480 yeah you could tell this comes from a 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.980 different place 00:47:55.980 --> 00:47:58.760 um but 00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:00.359 um 00:48:00.359 --> 00:48:02.400 yeah this is an interesting conversation 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:04.200 just for the record book like the 00:48:04.200 --> 00:48:06.660 certain challenges and 00:48:06.660 --> 00:48:07.859 um 00:48:07.859 --> 00:48:10.640 uh 00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:20.760 yeah the peacock is is got a lot of it's 00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.520 got to come from arrows that's the 00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:25.859 peacock and it's got to be the peacock 00:48:25.859 --> 00:48:29.160 not the what's the female the the 00:48:29.160 --> 00:48:31.260 collective is p foul and then there's a 00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:33.060 peacock they don't call it the P hen 00:48:33.060 --> 00:48:36.720 can't be a p hen the P hen 00:48:36.720 --> 00:48:38.940 um the P Heng does not want to write a 00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:41.060 book 00:48:51.839 --> 00:48:54.180 nobody goes around saying I want to buy 00:48:54.180 --> 00:48:56.400 a peahen 00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:58.940 foreign 00:48:59.780 --> 00:49:02.160 s felt like they had that peacock that 00:49:02.160 --> 00:49:04.619 Arrow Synergy yeah even the dispatchers 00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:06.900 they had arrows but it was peacock era 00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:10.200 energy to write really you really need 00:49:10.200 --> 00:49:11.280 to have 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.680 see the feminine I I talked about this 00:49:13.680 --> 00:49:15.060 once 00:49:15.060 --> 00:49:17.099 um you have to understand this in the 00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.220 right way because you know that I don't 00:49:20.220 --> 00:49:22.020 usually talk about feminine and 00:49:22.020 --> 00:49:23.760 masculine 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.960 but when I work with women a couple of 00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.660 women I've had consultations with that 00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:33.440 are like their leaders and their 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:37.020 feminine leaders uh if it's a serious 00:49:37.020 --> 00:49:38.940 conversation I get to the point where I 00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:41.400 ask them to consider that feminine uh 00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.380 leadership withdraws 00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:46.260 you can't see it 00:49:46.260 --> 00:49:49.140 um I think this is actually the case 00:49:49.140 --> 00:49:51.540 it's certain historically the case you 00:49:51.540 --> 00:49:53.880 can't one of the reasons why we know a 00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:55.040 lot about 00:49:55.040 --> 00:49:58.440 patriarchal rituals and systems is 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:01.200 because they peacock they leave they 00:50:01.200 --> 00:50:03.540 leave a lot of evidence 00:50:03.540 --> 00:50:05.640 um but 00:50:05.640 --> 00:50:06.780 um 00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.000 this and I teach this thing called Yen 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:13.140 leadership and Leadership withdraws you 00:50:13.140 --> 00:50:14.940 withdraw 00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:18.119 you withdraw from the the space you're 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:19.800 standing in and someone comes there and 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.980 then you withdraw again and it it's it's 00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:25.619 and when you withdraw 00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:29.700 is kind of like you know so these levels 00:50:29.700 --> 00:50:31.940 um you're you're you're 00:50:31.940 --> 00:50:36.300 building up leadership in the other but 00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:39.720 you're always withdrawing right in and 00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:43.560 and eventually you disappear so the 00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:47.160 mother for Oregon though you know didn't 00:50:47.160 --> 00:50:48.599 write anything 00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.619 but most people believe that orbindo was 00:50:52.619 --> 00:50:54.720 just channeling their mother and he 00:50:54.720 --> 00:50:56.640 didn't understand his own writing right 00:50:56.640 --> 00:50:59.400 and so this is why it's very hard to 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:03.000 understand or window because this he was 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.300 peacocking for the mother and 00:51:06.300 --> 00:51:06.960 um 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.800 and one of the things to remember about 00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:15.540 uh this is it takes a huge amount of 00:51:15.540 --> 00:51:22.079 uh understanding of the power of uh 00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:22.980 um 00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:26.880 being powerful and never being seen 00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.940 um is a is a feminine is truly if all 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.980 this other aggressive feminism is is a 00:51:31.980 --> 00:51:33.540 confusion 00:51:33.540 --> 00:51:37.220 um it requires it requires a huge 00:51:37.220 --> 00:51:40.559 understanding of 00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.380 um so you you see why this I don't mean 00:51:43.380 --> 00:51:47.220 never being seen and and you're pushed 00:51:47.220 --> 00:51:49.500 away to this but it's not the point the 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.680 point is how to understand power that 00:51:52.680 --> 00:51:56.119 withdraws and of course 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.839 um yeah so so anyways that's just a long 00:52:00.839 --> 00:52:03.359 thing why the PN won't write a book but 00:52:03.359 --> 00:52:05.700 you have to channel the peacock uh the 00:52:05.700 --> 00:52:09.359 peacock wants you know more than wants 00:52:09.359 --> 00:52:10.859 to be seen 00:52:10.859 --> 00:52:15.480 um and this is uh yeah so this is 00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:17.160 interesting 00:52:17.160 --> 00:52:19.220 um 00:52:21.540 --> 00:52:23.819 it's an interesting 00:52:23.819 --> 00:52:27.740 um way of looking at it 00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.380 see the powerful Yin wants to withdraw 00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:35.040 in the uh yielding so you know there's 00:52:35.040 --> 00:52:37.319 there's powerful young and there's weak 00:52:37.319 --> 00:52:39.180 young and there's powerfully in in 00:52:39.180 --> 00:52:45.119 weekend and uh week young wants to it 00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.640 wants to Peacock 00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:51.059 now powerful young wants to Peacock and 00:52:51.059 --> 00:52:53.700 Powerful Yin wants to withdraw and weak 00:52:53.700 --> 00:52:56.640 Ian wants to Peacock 00:52:56.640 --> 00:52:59.640 so they become like sexual symbols and 00:52:59.640 --> 00:53:01.920 Powerful Yin wants to withdraw so 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:03.839 there's both yielding and creative 00:53:03.839 --> 00:53:05.220 forces 00:53:05.220 --> 00:53:07.319 and so 00:53:07.319 --> 00:53:09.380 um 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.680 that's why uh 00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:18.900 Whatchamacallit got it wrong David Dade 00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:22.220 when he talks about the female wants to 00:53:22.220 --> 00:53:26.220 be seen by the gays of the male this is 00:53:26.220 --> 00:53:29.099 not true they're masculine peacocks and 00:53:29.099 --> 00:53:31.980 we know this from Gay Culture that they 00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:35.760 peacock much much more strongly than 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:40.440 women do this is an inversion really 00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:41.640 um 00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:44.819 which is fine because women should be 00:53:44.819 --> 00:53:48.480 able to Peacock if they want to also but 00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.020 yeah 00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.980 why are we talking about this 00:53:55.200 --> 00:53:56.819 because it could be 00:53:56.819 --> 00:53:59.460 so that you'll write your book yeah so 00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:01.700 okay 00:54:02.700 --> 00:54:05.660 write my book 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:20.339 exactly it's very Taoist 00:54:20.339 --> 00:54:21.000 um 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.599 that's why the what you something about 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:28.619 the Yang but stick with the yin which is 00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:30.780 yeah go ahead 00:54:30.780 --> 00:54:32.400 I mean I 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.040 I guess I'm 00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:37.319 since the beginning I think I've been in 00:54:37.319 --> 00:54:40.800 this wondering about 00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:42.920 um 00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:45.900 how to 00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:49.920 how to make this accessible to the 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.079 people you go home to without slapping 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:53.280 the 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:54.119 um 00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:58.380 pod smart summary on the on the table I 00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:01.559 mean I think that's then 00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:04.500 a question for me 00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:05.880 um 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:09.480 so that I I do find 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.720 the language here coming into my own 00:55:12.720 --> 00:55:15.780 work I do find ways that the the 00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:18.599 metaphors and the imagery works 00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.500 and then 00:55:22.200 --> 00:55:25.380 could it be could there be a version 00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:27.780 that would be sort of paint by number 00:55:27.780 --> 00:55:29.819 for some people 00:55:29.819 --> 00:55:32.400 who just 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.680 even want to take a step in this 00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.660 direction 00:55:36.660 --> 00:55:38.700 um 00:55:38.700 --> 00:55:40.859 and that you know that may not be at all 00:55:40.859 --> 00:55:42.900 your job to do Bonnie that may be our 00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:45.440 job to do 00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:49.800 numbers is is 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.900 um needs to be done I don't think that's 00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:54.660 yeah that's not what I'm going to do 00:55:54.660 --> 00:55:56.940 um who's my audience for this book let's 00:55:56.940 --> 00:55:59.520 say this is very helpful 00:55:59.520 --> 00:56:01.619 um you know people like you obviously 00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:06.900 but it would just be recapping but um 00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:09.119 somebody won't be paint by numbers is 00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:10.500 because the audience would be like the 00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:13.140 people I meet at Maple and these like 22 00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:15.780 to 45 year olds they don't need Paint by 00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:18.020 numbers they wouldn't repaint by numbers 00:56:18.020 --> 00:56:20.760 there are a whole bunch of like people 00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:22.200 that 00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:24.260 um 00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:27.839 um if you read Peter lindberg's sub 00:56:27.839 --> 00:56:31.079 stack less foolish this is paint by 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.140 numbers I would say so and and there's 00:56:34.140 --> 00:56:36.839 you know huge community that he holds 00:56:36.839 --> 00:56:38.339 very well 00:56:38.339 --> 00:56:41.700 um that you won't see a lot of the 00:56:41.700 --> 00:56:44.460 phrases I use there but it's like is the 00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:47.040 is the view coming from 00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:48.720 um what would you know the kind of shift 00:56:48.720 --> 00:56:51.119 in view that we have here 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:55.200 um and uh and 00:56:55.200 --> 00:56:57.059 um 00:56:57.059 --> 00:56:59.640 yeah it would once you get to paint by 00:56:59.640 --> 00:57:02.040 numbers it it it's occluded you know you 00:57:02.040 --> 00:57:03.900 paint by numbers doesn't mean use my 00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:06.500 phrases and then I start by 00:57:06.500 --> 00:57:08.700 demanding that you have a specific 00:57:08.700 --> 00:57:10.859 language so we can talk to each other 00:57:10.859 --> 00:57:12.119 but 00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:15.960 um I think that that happens and 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.880 um 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.059 um 00:57:20.520 --> 00:57:22.440 yeah like we were talking about when we 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.740 were at that that course in 00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:27.960 um Socrates you know like you have to 00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:30.359 you can't you can't be uptight when you 00:57:30.359 --> 00:57:32.460 it's obvious that people are building a 00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.319 community around your work but they're 00:57:34.319 --> 00:57:36.359 using their paint by number systems and 00:57:36.359 --> 00:57:37.740 they're not citing you and stuff like 00:57:37.740 --> 00:57:39.119 that 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:41.220 um so that's cool 00:57:41.220 --> 00:57:41.940 um 00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.339 because the frustration around that 00:57:44.339 --> 00:57:46.619 really is if I if I feel frustrated 00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:48.240 around that it really comes from the 00:57:48.240 --> 00:57:50.520 fact that I yet again haven't written my 00:57:50.520 --> 00:57:52.800 book right so 00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.020 um that's really where the the energy of 00:57:55.020 --> 00:57:56.880 frustration should come from now because 00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:58.440 other people are 00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.640 doing stuff with it 00:58:01.859 --> 00:58:03.000 but 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:06.480 um yeah Claudia 00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:08.099 yeah we have a project at the moment 00:58:08.099 --> 00:58:10.020 where we've asked 00:58:10.020 --> 00:58:12.960 some guy Andrew merman who knows a lot 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:14.460 about the UK 00:58:14.460 --> 00:58:17.520 University system and we've just asked 00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:21.540 him to write a report whatever feedback 00:58:21.540 --> 00:58:22.800 on 00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:24.660 how easy difficult it would be to get 00:58:24.660 --> 00:58:27.000 ecological economics 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:28.700 into the university 00:58:28.700 --> 00:58:32.400 but and you know I think we've defined 00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.200 ecological or economics deeply enough 00:58:34.200 --> 00:58:37.559 I'm not sure probably not but 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:39.359 um 00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:41.460 you know this is still sort of operating 00:58:41.460 --> 00:58:43.920 on the hope that the existing kind of 00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:47.040 educational institutions 00:58:47.040 --> 00:58:49.260 you know aren't totally right 00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:52.799 that they can somehow 00:58:52.799 --> 00:58:54.540 and in different countries it might be 00:58:54.540 --> 00:58:57.180 different but somehow accommodate a 00:58:57.180 --> 00:58:59.180 different way of of 00:58:59.180 --> 00:59:03.780 that's yeah about the education okay 00:59:03.780 --> 00:59:05.280 um or maybe I should say it more 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.559 strongly can shift quite rapidly let's 00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:09.119 say 00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:10.500 um 00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:12.480 so yeah we'll see what the report says 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:13.740 whatever 00:59:13.740 --> 00:59:15.960 um but 00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.380 yeah what's your thoughts on influencing 00:59:19.380 --> 00:59:20.839 current 00:59:20.839 --> 00:59:24.420 mainstream whatever educational uh the 00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:26.160 the the the mainstream educational 00:59:26.160 --> 00:59:29.339 system maybe at different pages 00:59:29.339 --> 00:59:32.099 yeah so this is a great question we will 00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:34.079 talk about this more kind of thing more 00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.900 in The Parallax course but it's very 00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:39.180 important to understand two things and 00:59:39.180 --> 00:59:41.460 then I and Magdalena I think this is up 00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:42.839 your alley too 00:59:42.839 --> 00:59:44.160 and then 00:59:44.160 --> 00:59:46.619 um and the two things are this number 00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:49.079 one is 00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.980 the human system is extremely stratified 00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:54.900 there's people at the bottom and there's 00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:56.339 people at the top 00:59:56.339 --> 00:59:58.859 you have to understand that this is the 00:59:58.859 --> 01:00:00.780 case and it's going to be the case for 01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:02.280 many generations to come because 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.819 Generations can't change that fast so 01:00:05.819 --> 01:00:07.500 this is very important 01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:09.299 but the second thing is to understand 01:00:09.299 --> 01:00:12.119 that the people who are most important 01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.119 are not at the top 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.760 some of them might be and and probably 01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:21.299 not at the very bottom and the uh and 01:00:21.299 --> 01:00:24.079 and so you need a system to understand 01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:27.059 that the human system is stratified and 01:00:27.059 --> 01:00:30.480 to identify those with the most promise 01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:32.700 it's not an egalitarian thing because 01:00:32.700 --> 01:00:35.599 we're not egalitarian it's just not true 01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:39.240 right now right then but it's also not 01:00:39.240 --> 01:00:42.960 true that the privileged Elites aren't 01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.960 the ones we're looking for 01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:48.960 you have to say what is the stratifying 01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:53.400 thing along the metrics I'm looking for 01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:55.559 is it a kind of Consciousness I talk 01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:59.099 about like the the this new mind is 01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:02.400 latent in the system already some people 01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:05.220 have it to one degree or another and 01:01:05.220 --> 01:01:08.460 some people don't and that's 01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:11.339 who you want to design like new 01:01:11.339 --> 01:01:14.640 education systems for and this is so the 01:01:14.640 --> 01:01:16.740 hardest thing is identifying what is 01:01:16.740 --> 01:01:18.720 that metric what is what am I looking 01:01:18.720 --> 01:01:21.960 for it is it is a hierarchy it is a 01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:23.880 metric 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:26.460 um and so we don't care so much that 01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:27.960 there's privilege at least going to 01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.640 college because they're not the one 01:01:29.640 --> 01:01:31.440 there might be some there but they're 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:33.780 not it's not the same 01:01:33.780 --> 01:01:36.540 ordinary way we think about how Society 01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:38.760 is stratified 01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.440 and so 01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:42.540 um now developmental stage story 01:01:42.540 --> 01:01:47.040 actually grew out of this kind of urge 01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:49.680 to see you know they were everybody's 01:01:49.680 --> 01:01:52.920 like hooked on Wilbur and to see what is 01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:55.740 the new mind but because their stage 01:01:55.740 --> 01:01:59.460 theorists they look at it on top of all 01:01:59.460 --> 01:02:01.920 these other stages and I'm saying that 01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:05.660 it's orthogonal like it can look deviant 01:02:05.660 --> 01:02:10.700 and um but it is it is 01:02:11.700 --> 01:02:14.940 comes to terms with like as Ivo said 01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:16.559 last time you know the Relentless 01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:18.839 unfolding of reality we lived in a 01:02:18.839 --> 01:02:21.359 stratified uh 01:02:21.359 --> 01:02:24.119 um highly stratified human system in 01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:26.880 terms of capacities for doing this kind 01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:28.079 of work 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:32.220 and how can we identify 01:02:32.220 --> 01:02:34.319 um we can't be a hundred percent correct 01:02:34.319 --> 01:02:37.020 and is latency like something can look 01:02:37.020 --> 01:02:39.000 deviant for a long time but how can we 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.460 do design for that and then and still 01:02:41.460 --> 01:02:44.460 and then the responsibility 01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:47.819 to design you know keep designing for 01:02:47.819 --> 01:02:51.180 more and more of the the collective 01:02:51.180 --> 01:02:54.900 um so does that make sense does it does 01:02:54.900 --> 01:03:00.180 it helpful like like so so this this 01:03:00.180 --> 01:03:02.640 and and so some educational institutions 01:03:02.640 --> 01:03:05.640 have to so this is the upshot some don't 01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:07.980 need to be changed that much because 01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:10.859 there's a huge group of people that 01:03:10.859 --> 01:03:12.540 aren't for the future they're not 01:03:12.540 --> 01:03:14.280 they're not they're not they're not 01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:17.480 going to make it to the Future 01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:19.559 um and there's a there's some people 01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:22.140 that are already from the future 01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:23.579 um and that's just the truth if you 01:03:23.579 --> 01:03:25.440 start thinking about it as designing 01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:27.839 like from public Mass education you're 01:03:27.839 --> 01:03:30.059 going to hit the mark on all ends of the 01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:32.460 spectrum and that's what happens now 01:03:32.460 --> 01:03:37.559 right so so you have to kind of be 01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:40.319 out of fashion in terms in in one sense 01:03:40.319 --> 01:03:43.500 in the in the in the conversation 01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:45.359 um and and 01:03:45.359 --> 01:03:48.780 uh but but you understand that it is the 01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:53.220 most uh any the long-term goal is more 01:03:53.220 --> 01:03:55.319 egalitarian because you'll get there 01:03:55.319 --> 01:03:57.180 faster 01:03:57.180 --> 01:03:58.440 um 01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:00.540 does that make sense 01:04:00.540 --> 01:04:02.400 put those how do you put those two 01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:05.599 things together Sandra 01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:09.780 I just read a book called the future of 01:04:09.780 --> 01:04:11.579 children 01:04:11.579 --> 01:04:18.420 and it's it it's a 40-year experiment 01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:19.260 um 01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:23.299 with a that started as a free school in 01:04:23.299 --> 01:04:26.339 1971 and 01:04:26.339 --> 01:04:28.440 based on 01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:32.760 loving children and demonstrating that 01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:36.540 children who love are loved and learned 01:04:36.540 --> 01:04:39.660 to love the Earth will protect it and 01:04:39.660 --> 01:04:42.540 defend it and grow into adults 01:04:42.540 --> 01:04:45.839 who have that 01:04:45.839 --> 01:04:48.000 new kind of mind that you're talking 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.480 about it's it's not it's somewhat based 01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:54.059 in a developmental model but not in the 01:04:54.059 --> 01:04:56.700 way that we think about progress 01:04:56.700 --> 01:04:57.299 um 01:04:57.299 --> 01:05:00.059 more in the way that we think about 01:05:00.059 --> 01:05:02.180 process 01:05:02.180 --> 01:05:05.640 and so you know 01:05:05.640 --> 01:05:09.420 the stories in it are stories of what 01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:11.220 these kids were like as children and who 01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:13.319 they turned into as adults 01:05:13.319 --> 01:05:15.500 and it 01:05:15.500 --> 01:05:18.000 you know there's just a tremendous 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:20.339 amount of Hope in that 01:05:20.339 --> 01:05:23.640 potential even if it's a small scale 01:05:23.640 --> 01:05:26.520 experiment 01:05:26.520 --> 01:05:29.460 that yields the kind of results that 01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:31.980 that they're talking about and 01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:34.020 you know the person who was a director 01:05:34.020 --> 01:05:35.579 at the school was a student of 01:05:35.579 --> 01:05:38.400 Buckminster Fuller and they had ROM Doss 01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.200 come and they had you know Native 01:05:40.200 --> 01:05:43.980 American people come they had just 01:05:43.980 --> 01:05:47.880 a whole progression of 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:49.980 um learning 01:05:49.980 --> 01:05:53.280 that's the kind of learning that we 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:55.200 actually need 01:05:55.200 --> 01:05:57.299 and I think the question that it raises 01:05:57.299 --> 01:05:59.339 for me is how to 01:05:59.339 --> 01:06:02.160 you know I I'm thinking like you Claudia 01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:04.559 is there like some way to influence 01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.780 what's already there or is it better to 01:06:06.780 --> 01:06:08.160 just 01:06:08.160 --> 01:06:10.460 begin these little 01:06:10.460 --> 01:06:15.000 pockets of experimentation 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:15.900 um 01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.900 and it's not an either or I guess 01:06:18.900 --> 01:06:21.319 yeah 01:06:21.540 --> 01:06:23.520 yeah it's not it's about not being 01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:25.920 ideological on either end of the 01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:27.480 spectrum 01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:28.500 um 01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:30.319 and so 01:06:30.319 --> 01:06:33.960 of course you know if you're if you're 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:37.260 running projects like Claudia is 01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:40.319 um it's very hot people want 01:06:40.319 --> 01:06:44.099 want to to get to an ideology and then 01:06:44.099 --> 01:06:48.359 one and done and and um but but if 01:06:48.359 --> 01:06:51.240 you're yourself an ideological you can 01:06:51.240 --> 01:06:56.280 try to support or juggle many different 01:06:56.280 --> 01:06:57.599 you know 01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:00.480 many different initiatives and some of 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:03.260 them are more conservative 01:07:03.260 --> 01:07:06.299 than others at the same time knowing 01:07:06.299 --> 01:07:08.400 that there's this other this other thing 01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:11.400 this other thing going on 01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:13.520 um 01:07:13.740 --> 01:07:16.559 and as long as we can continue to have 01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:21.180 successful experiments and curiosity and 01:07:21.180 --> 01:07:22.559 um 01:07:22.559 --> 01:07:25.500 the interest to experiment in if as long 01:07:25.500 --> 01:07:28.020 as that's in the human system then when 01:07:28.020 --> 01:07:31.740 it hits the sweet spot you know 01:07:31.740 --> 01:07:34.020 the same the same thing that makes 01:07:34.020 --> 01:07:36.119 people want to just have an ideology and 01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:38.339 have it work if one of these experiments 01:07:38.339 --> 01:07:41.400 works and and 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:42.079 um 01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:45.539 it's easier then you then you get mass 01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:48.359 mass adoption of it and then you'll be 01:07:48.359 --> 01:07:50.880 looking at the next thing but 01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:51.720 um 01:07:51.720 --> 01:07:53.940 the fact that people are lazy you know 01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:55.140 they like water they're going to run 01:07:55.140 --> 01:07:57.359 downhill to the to the easiest thing and 01:07:57.359 --> 01:07:59.700 then that becomes the thing you invented 01:07:59.700 --> 01:08:01.799 becomes a little ideological as long as 01:08:01.799 --> 01:08:05.220 it changes people's behavior then then 01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:08.160 that's good right so 01:08:08.160 --> 01:08:10.760 song 01:08:12.240 --> 01:08:14.400 it reminds me of you know that I 01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:16.140 subscribe to this video channel where 01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:17.640 this woman 01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:20.040 um she she gets called in and she saves 01:08:20.040 --> 01:08:22.380 bees you know like that there's bees in 01:08:22.380 --> 01:08:24.600 your garage or bees and she does 01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:26.460 everything with her bare hands and she's 01:08:26.460 --> 01:08:30.120 really sweet voice and 01:08:30.120 --> 01:08:33.060 as she's moving the comb into a new Hive 01:08:33.060 --> 01:08:34.859 and this and that and she's so gentle 01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:37.020 she's always looking for the queen bee 01:08:37.020 --> 01:08:38.400 because once she gets the queen in the 01:08:38.400 --> 01:08:40.620 clip and she puts it in right and so 01:08:40.620 --> 01:08:42.839 that's what it is like once once you 01:08:42.839 --> 01:08:46.319 find the the queen of the you know the 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:49.560 queen educational approach and you put 01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:53.400 it in this still be there'll be a swarm 01:08:53.400 --> 01:08:55.739 right and 01:08:55.739 --> 01:08:58.319 um the challenge for people to be from 01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:01.020 the future and metacognitive or do these 01:09:01.020 --> 01:09:02.880 weird things and you know the problem 01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:04.679 with doing these alternative things is 01:09:04.679 --> 01:09:07.080 to not you don't succeed in society in 01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:09.779 the conventional way and blah blah blah 01:09:09.779 --> 01:09:12.179 um but it's like this queen bee like 01:09:12.179 --> 01:09:14.819 just insert the queen bee 01:09:14.819 --> 01:09:16.799 um shift the queen bee from here to 01:09:16.799 --> 01:09:20.580 there and and give the masses a little 01:09:20.580 --> 01:09:23.580 smoke so you know and then 01:09:23.580 --> 01:09:27.420 they'll go Magdalena 01:09:28.739 --> 01:09:29.900 um 01:09:29.900 --> 01:09:32.940 it's not gonna be 01:09:32.940 --> 01:09:35.520 you know it's gonna be pretty erratic 01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:36.839 because 01:09:36.839 --> 01:09:39.239 I think one of the things just nothing 01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:41.580 new I mean Zach's starting to talk about 01:09:41.580 --> 01:09:44.400 it and lots of people talked about it I 01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:45.420 mean that 01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:48.480 what is already manifesting 01:09:48.480 --> 01:09:50.839 is is is 01:09:50.839 --> 01:09:54.179 kind of all these 01:09:54.179 --> 01:09:57.840 you know uh 01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:01.739 I mean really Insanity I mean it's 01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:04.800 already like so widespread I mean even 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:09.060 in my whatever small circle within a 01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:10.440 week 01:10:10.440 --> 01:10:13.620 there was a mother who lost a 22 year 01:10:13.620 --> 01:10:16.260 old to something that was spiked with 01:10:16.260 --> 01:10:19.380 fentanyl I mean this is not like 01:10:19.380 --> 01:10:22.560 somebody who is in drugs or whatever you 01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:24.840 know I mean what do you say to this 01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.020 person you know and and the only thing I 01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:30.659 could come up with was your son's a 01:10:30.659 --> 01:10:33.679 casualty of a war 01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:38.460 like this is not your fault because it 01:10:38.460 --> 01:10:41.900 is not something you could have done 01:10:42.420 --> 01:10:43.080 um 01:10:43.080 --> 01:10:45.239 but there is a war 01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:47.840 against 01:10:48.620 --> 01:10:50.219 subsistence 01:10:50.219 --> 01:10:54.659 I mean at at a very basic level 01:10:54.659 --> 01:10:56.580 and the subsistence is not just 01:10:56.580 --> 01:11:00.000 subsistence of what you eat or what roof 01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:02.880 you have over your head it's 01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:05.360 um an automatized 01:11:05.360 --> 01:11:10.800 Dynamic that makes us Mutual aggressors 01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.520 you know to each other and that's the 01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:15.659 the 01:11:15.659 --> 01:11:18.780 so I was reading something that I really 01:11:18.780 --> 01:11:23.100 wanted to ask you to to think 01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:28.320 um with us about if it resonates 01:11:28.320 --> 01:11:30.659 that at some point in in what is 01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:31.920 philosophy 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:34.380 um the lesson guitar you talk about 01:11:34.380 --> 01:11:37.380 shame 01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:44.120 that as a not a personal shame but as a 01:11:44.340 --> 01:11:45.719 as a 01:11:45.719 --> 01:11:50.400 con as a meeting the Intolerable 01:11:50.400 --> 01:11:54.020 and that that can become 01:11:54.060 --> 01:11:58.380 a a geophysical Force you know and and 01:11:58.380 --> 01:12:00.360 the beginning of a geophysical 01:12:00.360 --> 01:12:02.640 philosophy 01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:06.060 um and you know I 01:12:06.060 --> 01:12:09.199 I I don't really want to say 01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:12.480 much more about that but you know in the 01:12:12.480 --> 01:12:15.060 affect realm you know what where do you 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:17.719 place shame 01:12:18.480 --> 01:12:20.400 okay we'll talk about that and then 01:12:20.400 --> 01:12:21.960 we'll do the shift I think that's 01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:23.520 required here 01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:24.900 um so 01:12:24.900 --> 01:12:28.320 I make that now just like a lot of these 01:12:28.320 --> 01:12:30.420 words different people use it in 01:12:30.420 --> 01:12:31.920 different ways so there's shame and 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:33.480 guilt and some people mean guilt when 01:12:33.480 --> 01:12:35.159 they say shame and some people mean 01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:37.080 shame when they say guilt and blah blah 01:12:37.080 --> 01:12:38.640 blah so 01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:42.840 um where I how I work with it is 01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:46.800 guilt is when you know something's wrong 01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:49.920 it's it's going to be 01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:51.960 um you even believe it's wrong yourself 01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:53.520 right 01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:56.400 uh you're gonna do it anyways right so 01:12:56.400 --> 01:12:59.040 kids go in and you steal candy at the 01:12:59.040 --> 01:13:00.780 candy store you know it's wrong that's 01:13:00.780 --> 01:13:02.940 half the fun of it right so you're 01:13:02.940 --> 01:13:04.320 guilty 01:13:04.320 --> 01:13:06.420 um and 01:13:06.420 --> 01:13:10.320 um shame is when something energy in you 01:13:10.320 --> 01:13:13.679 arises spontaneously like the kid that 01:13:13.679 --> 01:13:16.800 goes and break something or I tell the 01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:19.380 story when I caught that tomcat and I 01:13:19.380 --> 01:13:21.900 started twirling it around by its tail 01:13:21.900 --> 01:13:24.000 and at the time I didn't and then all of 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.159 a sudden the little switch came off and 01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:29.219 I felt ashamed right because I didn't 01:13:29.219 --> 01:13:31.020 want to hurt it I didn't mean to hurt it 01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:32.940 I was just a little kid and I didn't 01:13:32.940 --> 01:13:36.659 have like oh this is bad but then that 01:13:36.659 --> 01:13:38.699 awareness came in and I felt ashamed so 01:13:38.699 --> 01:13:41.520 Shane is wearing something authentic or 01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:43.140 rises in you 01:13:43.140 --> 01:13:45.840 uh like you're masturbating when you're 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:47.760 a child and someone says don't do that 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.500 and then all of a sudden there was a 01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:51.480 before when it was authentic and now 01:13:51.480 --> 01:13:52.800 you're ashamed 01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:54.960 and I find Shane being extremely 01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:59.340 problematic because it pervert it puts 01:13:59.340 --> 01:14:02.280 the person into a double bind they know 01:14:02.280 --> 01:14:04.219 it was authentic it comes from nature 01:14:04.219 --> 01:14:06.360 and yet 01:14:06.360 --> 01:14:11.100 it's not acceptable and and so either I 01:14:11.100 --> 01:14:16.500 have to deny uh natural arousal or I 01:14:16.500 --> 01:14:18.420 have to create a false self 01:14:18.420 --> 01:14:21.140 now there's so so 01:14:21.140 --> 01:14:23.880 curiosity around these things where do 01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:25.739 you want the energy to go what it is 01:14:25.739 --> 01:14:27.719 more much more 01:14:27.719 --> 01:14:31.080 uh in in interesting to me than Shame 01:14:31.080 --> 01:14:33.540 Shame is going to come up anyways we 01:14:33.540 --> 01:14:35.460 want I don't think we should maximize it 01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:37.260 in the system 01:14:37.260 --> 01:14:38.520 um 01:14:38.520 --> 01:14:41.820 what I think is important in political 01:14:41.820 --> 01:14:44.580 let's say systems is more people need to 01:14:44.580 --> 01:14:46.440 have single Loop feedback if you do 01:14:46.440 --> 01:14:48.620 something wrong you get 01:14:48.620 --> 01:14:52.500 at a small scale you get punished at a 01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:57.060 small scale you know like if we if you 01:14:57.060 --> 01:14:59.820 if you use too much electricity you 01:14:59.820 --> 01:15:01.140 don't get punished because the 01:15:01.140 --> 01:15:03.120 punishment's at the end of some complex 01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:05.100 climate change things so that's that's 01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:07.560 one thing that it can be problematic but 01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:10.020 how do we Define how do we 01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:12.960 um design single Loop 01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:15.300 um feedback systems into the society as 01:15:15.300 --> 01:15:17.219 a question has all kinds of problems 01:15:17.219 --> 01:15:18.659 because people aren't Sovereign they 01:15:18.659 --> 01:15:19.980 don't have Choice blah blah blah okay 01:15:19.980 --> 01:15:22.679 but what's more important to me about 01:15:22.679 --> 01:15:26.400 this question you asked is they can only 01:15:26.400 --> 01:15:28.199 be and this is a shift we're going to do 01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:29.640 when we come back and without they can 01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:33.719 only be solved by a collective 01:15:33.719 --> 01:15:36.980 perspective so 01:15:37.140 --> 01:15:39.300 it's you have to say well here's the 01:15:39.300 --> 01:15:41.719 human system it's one body 01:15:41.719 --> 01:15:44.940 and parts of the body are dying like 01:15:44.940 --> 01:15:47.159 from Fentanyl and parts of the body are 01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:49.920 making Fentanyl and and opioids and 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.080 getting there's something wrong with the 01:15:52.080 --> 01:15:54.179 body that is the human body you see 01:15:54.179 --> 01:15:57.480 there's there's it's like part you can 01:15:57.480 --> 01:16:00.140 there's kind of an autoimmune 01:16:00.140 --> 01:16:05.880 disease that is the human body and so so 01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:08.460 so there is stratifications you know 01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:10.500 some parts of the body are making 01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:12.120 histamine in some parts of the body 01:16:12.120 --> 01:16:13.560 trying to kill the things that are 01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:15.960 making histamine and blah blah blah blah 01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:18.480 but 01:16:18.480 --> 01:16:20.520 um the the question we have to ask is 01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:24.120 what's wrong with the human body 01:16:24.120 --> 01:16:27.239 what's wrong with the human body what 01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:30.120 does human body need 01:16:30.120 --> 01:16:32.760 um now I would argue more access to 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:34.380 Nature more different kinds of 01:16:34.380 --> 01:16:36.300 ontological design all these other 01:16:36.300 --> 01:16:39.060 things which is a different argument 01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:41.219 than 01:16:41.219 --> 01:16:43.980 trying to change the relationship 01:16:43.980 --> 01:16:46.380 between the parts in the human body you 01:16:46.380 --> 01:16:47.219 know 01:16:47.219 --> 01:16:51.060 um now there there's there's there's a 01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:54.179 place and time for like I you know 01:16:54.179 --> 01:16:56.159 frustrates me that 01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:58.679 the pharmaceutical companies have not 01:16:58.679 --> 01:17:02.340 been I'd give them death or life 01:17:02.340 --> 01:17:04.980 sentences for the opioid epidemic and 01:17:04.980 --> 01:17:06.900 they very clearly understood what they 01:17:06.900 --> 01:17:10.159 were doing in the same way that the lead 01:17:10.159 --> 01:17:13.679 in lead and gas people knew what they're 01:17:13.679 --> 01:17:16.080 doing that killed 10 10 million people 01:17:16.080 --> 01:17:17.940 or something and made everybody in 01:17:17.940 --> 01:17:19.320 America 01:17:19.320 --> 01:17:20.040 um 01:17:20.040 --> 01:17:22.800 what would I choose by whatever you know 01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:24.960 all these things that the scientists 01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:28.320 knew that companies knew the So within 01:17:28.320 --> 01:17:30.239 in the system there's a time and place 01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:32.520 for like these repercussions to be 01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:34.140 happening 01:17:34.140 --> 01:17:37.320 um but when you're asked the question at 01:17:37.320 --> 01:17:38.659 the larger level 01:17:38.659 --> 01:17:41.880 it's this question like what's wrong 01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:44.400 with the 01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:48.060 yeah it's like watching a bunch of 01:17:48.060 --> 01:17:51.659 um it's like watching a a bunch of of 01:17:51.659 --> 01:17:54.300 bats come out too early in the year and 01:17:54.300 --> 01:17:56.040 start to fight and there's no food and 01:17:56.040 --> 01:17:58.679 like for you for years and years and 01:17:58.679 --> 01:18:01.440 years Ten Thousand Years they've had a 01:18:01.440 --> 01:18:03.300 rhythm that made sense and you so you 01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:05.340 say what's wrong with the bats not why 01:18:05.340 --> 01:18:07.140 is this bat chopping the head off of 01:18:07.140 --> 01:18:09.719 that bat there's something extremely 01:18:09.719 --> 01:18:12.500 wrong with the collective Behavior 01:18:12.500 --> 01:18:14.340 and 01:18:14.340 --> 01:18:16.080 um and so 01:18:16.080 --> 01:18:20.159 so it's that kind of question 01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:22.860 um or that kind of perspective that is I 01:18:22.860 --> 01:18:26.159 think a more interesting question 01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:27.960 um 01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:31.340 but yeah it's it's 01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:38.219 and in the meantime you know you're 01:18:38.219 --> 01:18:41.900 watching the human body 01:18:42.120 --> 01:18:45.719 it's kind of like I you know we're 01:18:45.719 --> 01:18:47.940 relatively Young 01:18:47.940 --> 01:18:51.060 we're a young enough species that it's 01:18:51.060 --> 01:18:52.560 not like 01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:55.380 we've hung on forever 01:18:55.380 --> 01:18:58.860 um it's like watching a young body die 01:18:58.860 --> 01:19:00.960 you don't know what's wrong with it you 01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:02.940 know and you're testing this and it's 01:19:02.940 --> 01:19:04.980 not cancer and it's not this and it's 01:19:04.980 --> 01:19:08.340 and you know and it's maybe it and it's 01:19:08.340 --> 01:19:11.000 not that and everything you do 01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:14.640 every year it's just whittles away and 01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:17.060 whittles away and it's not an old body 01:19:17.060 --> 01:19:20.400 and so what's wrong with it you know 01:19:20.400 --> 01:19:22.860 what's what's what's going on is an 01:19:22.860 --> 01:19:24.239 interesting question and it's not linear 01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:26.699 it's not like oh take carbon out of the 01:19:26.699 --> 01:19:28.500 atmosphere and the body will be fine 01:19:28.500 --> 01:19:30.420 it's 01:19:30.420 --> 01:19:33.420 so 01:19:33.540 --> 01:19:36.600 and we may just be watching it die I 01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:40.380 mean maybe that's what's happening 01:19:40.380 --> 01:19:42.500 um 01:19:42.659 --> 01:19:46.380 that could be true also 01:19:46.380 --> 01:19:48.780 and then the question is 01:19:48.780 --> 01:19:51.300 to what extent I I read once like you 01:19:51.300 --> 01:19:53.699 know the passenger pigeons there was 01:19:53.699 --> 01:19:56.159 such a collective species that there was 01:19:56.159 --> 01:19:58.560 still like hundreds of or thousands of 01:19:58.560 --> 01:20:00.960 them left but in order to survive they 01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:03.300 needed to have the hundreds of thousands 01:20:03.300 --> 01:20:06.480 like colonies so so once the threshold 01:20:06.480 --> 01:20:09.420 went they all disappeared 01:20:09.420 --> 01:20:12.179 um what's the threshold for human you 01:20:12.179 --> 01:20:13.380 know 01:20:13.380 --> 01:20:15.780 you get down to what 01:20:15.780 --> 01:20:18.000 in this in this part of our history you 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:22.760 get down to like what 500 000 people 01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:25.920 imagine living through that I mean it's 01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:29.159 a possibility from Seven not eight nine 01:20:29.159 --> 01:20:33.020 million to 500 000 people 01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:37.679 um and then of course you have to make 01:20:37.679 --> 01:20:41.760 the next next move and that is 01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:43.380 um we're part of nature 01:20:43.380 --> 01:20:45.060 and 01:20:45.060 --> 01:20:47.060 um 01:20:47.699 --> 01:20:50.400 it for people to go down to five this is 01:20:50.400 --> 01:20:52.860 a monster's conversation go down to 500 01:20:52.860 --> 01:20:56.100 000 people a lot of animals would die 01:20:56.100 --> 01:20:57.960 because a lot of animals are farm 01:20:57.960 --> 01:21:01.140 animals and pets and nature preserves 01:21:01.140 --> 01:21:02.699 and 01:21:02.699 --> 01:21:05.460 and then say what would be left would 01:21:05.460 --> 01:21:09.060 regenerate itself in a way that we can't 01:21:09.060 --> 01:21:11.840 possibly imagine and so 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:16.320 so maybe what's wrong with the planetary 01:21:16.320 --> 01:21:20.699 body is this you know humans are out of 01:21:20.699 --> 01:21:23.820 balance and that has to be rebalanced so 01:21:23.820 --> 01:21:26.159 these are all interesting questions when 01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:28.440 you start to 01:21:28.440 --> 01:21:30.840 shift these perspectives and wonder 01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:32.880 whether 01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:35.940 that just results in paralysis or does 01:21:35.940 --> 01:21:40.860 it result in a way to tell a new story 01:21:40.860 --> 01:21:42.900 that starts to heal 01:21:42.900 --> 01:21:47.239 the problem I don't know 01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:50.719 but 01:21:52.980 --> 01:21:54.840 yeah 01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:57.980 does that make sense 01:21:58.860 --> 01:22:03.540 no I it it it it it does especially in 01:22:03.540 --> 01:22:05.400 the context of everything else you're 01:22:05.400 --> 01:22:07.920 doing if that's how you were saying it 01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:11.600 would be monstrous as you just said 01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:14.300 I mean 01:22:14.300 --> 01:22:17.280 you're you're actively 01:22:17.280 --> 01:22:20.280 injecting 01:22:20.340 --> 01:22:24.300 um uh uh uh the the 01:22:24.300 --> 01:22:30.840 I think the this autoimmune disease you 01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:32.820 know with 01:22:32.820 --> 01:22:33.420 um 01:22:33.420 --> 01:22:38.699 what it this body this human body 01:22:38.699 --> 01:22:41.400 um needs and we feel it before we 01:22:41.400 --> 01:22:43.739 understand it in because the 01:22:43.739 --> 01:22:47.600 understanding is is is is is literally 01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:49.940 narrow impaired 01:22:49.940 --> 01:22:53.239 by all kinds of 01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:55.620 justificatory systems I mean this is 01:22:55.620 --> 01:22:59.100 where this language really really 01:22:59.100 --> 01:23:01.620 helps to 01:23:01.620 --> 01:23:04.739 not be paralyzed 01:23:04.739 --> 01:23:07.260 okay you can go back to what's the 01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:09.540 justificatory system or you can say oh 01:23:09.540 --> 01:23:12.179 okay that's what it is let's keep let's 01:23:12.179 --> 01:23:15.120 keep going okay and that's where I 01:23:15.120 --> 01:23:18.000 really agree with with Claudia and 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:22.020 Sandra on the on on the importance of 01:23:22.020 --> 01:23:25.320 how this could 01:23:25.320 --> 01:23:27.060 um 01:23:27.060 --> 01:23:31.800 and I have no idea how how how the how 01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:37.800 but how urgent it is in terms of of the 01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:41.760 younger less conditioned members of of 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.840 this human body to not have to be 01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:48.360 suffocated again 01:23:48.360 --> 01:23:50.640 you know 01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:54.120 and that to me is high school I mean I 01:23:54.120 --> 01:23:58.980 really feel like this pop-up School 01:23:58.980 --> 01:24:04.140 um could very much meet not match but 01:24:04.140 --> 01:24:06.800 meat a kind of 01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:10.920 complexity and aporia which they're 01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:13.020 already know in their bodies and we just 01:24:13.020 --> 01:24:16.260 have to stop lying to them 01:24:16.260 --> 01:24:18.719 and say oh no pull yourself up by the 01:24:18.719 --> 01:24:21.239 bootstraps and just you know keep going 01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:24.239 and yeah you know they know implicitly 01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:26.040 and they 01:24:26.040 --> 01:24:27.659 've had and that's your entire knowledge 01:24:27.659 --> 01:24:30.540 knowledge into wrote like large language 01:24:30.540 --> 01:24:34.080 modules but you know one of the things I 01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:36.420 want to say because came to me it's kind 01:24:36.420 --> 01:24:38.340 of like once you switch to the whole 01:24:38.340 --> 01:24:39.480 body 01:24:39.480 --> 01:24:43.020 like my doc you know he got 01:24:43.020 --> 01:24:46.260 he got snatched by a hawk and he's a 01:24:46.260 --> 01:24:48.360 tiny little duck but 01:24:48.360 --> 01:24:52.760 a lot it was too heavy for the hawk and 01:24:52.760 --> 01:24:56.580 uh and um he ended up coming back you 01:24:56.580 --> 01:24:58.080 know he's got like a big scrape down his 01:24:58.080 --> 01:25:00.360 back it's not a bad problem but he broke 01:25:00.360 --> 01:25:02.880 one of his legs 01:25:02.880 --> 01:25:05.880 you know so he uses his wings I don't 01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:06.780 know 01:25:06.780 --> 01:25:09.360 thing he's got one eye I bought him 01:25:09.360 --> 01:25:11.580 because his name is Popeye he was born 01:25:11.580 --> 01:25:13.800 without one eye of course that's why the 01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.500 hawk got him anyways 01:25:16.500 --> 01:25:18.300 so 01:25:18.300 --> 01:25:22.199 um so I bring them I bring them in and I 01:25:22.199 --> 01:25:25.380 put a soft cast on his on his leg on his 01:25:25.380 --> 01:25:28.560 foot on his broken leg right now the 01:25:28.560 --> 01:25:30.360 thing is 01:25:30.360 --> 01:25:34.320 there's a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny 01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:36.480 little chance that you can heal a duck's 01:25:36.480 --> 01:25:39.360 leg because it's all cartilage doesn't 01:25:39.360 --> 01:25:43.260 work like that usually it falls off 01:25:43.260 --> 01:25:46.739 and there's nothing I can do 01:25:46.739 --> 01:25:49.320 there's nothing I can do except feed 01:25:49.320 --> 01:25:51.540 okay so the second day so he's doing 01:25:51.540 --> 01:25:53.820 well the first day because he felt safe 01:25:53.820 --> 01:25:57.000 the second day he starts to 01:25:57.000 --> 01:25:59.400 like he wants to die he wants to die 01:25:59.400 --> 01:26:00.540 because he wants to be in his other 01:26:00.540 --> 01:26:03.780 Ducks friends so I take them down to the 01:26:03.780 --> 01:26:05.940 barn where he looks like completely 01:26:05.940 --> 01:26:07.080 pathetic 01:26:07.080 --> 01:26:09.120 the other duck his friends won't go out 01:26:09.120 --> 01:26:10.560 right now because they're too freaked 01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:12.060 out about the hawk so they're right 01:26:12.060 --> 01:26:13.380 there in the barn 01:26:13.380 --> 01:26:15.540 so I put him down there and then they 01:26:15.540 --> 01:26:17.040 notice them they come over and they 01:26:17.040 --> 01:26:19.020 start pecking him to death because 01:26:19.020 --> 01:26:22.920 that's what Ducks do okay and so 01:26:22.920 --> 01:26:25.380 now it's fine now they understand it's 01:26:25.380 --> 01:26:28.739 him and he is separated from them in the 01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:30.480 duck house because I don't want them to 01:26:30.480 --> 01:26:31.980 pack him to death they pack him to death 01:26:31.980 --> 01:26:33.239 because he doesn't act like a normal 01:26:33.239 --> 01:26:35.280 duck and they're like it freaks him out 01:26:35.280 --> 01:26:38.340 right but now I notice they're all over 01:26:38.340 --> 01:26:40.739 there sleeping next to where he is so 01:26:40.739 --> 01:26:43.800 he's becoming a part of the thing and my 01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:45.179 point here is 01:26:45.179 --> 01:26:46.980 that 01:26:46.980 --> 01:26:50.699 I have zero control I can try to nudge 01:26:50.699 --> 01:26:52.860 this and try to nudge that 01:26:52.860 --> 01:26:54.480 but 01:26:54.480 --> 01:26:57.480 um whether he heals is one thing I mean 01:26:57.480 --> 01:27:00.300 I've had Ducks I had this one duck she 01:27:00.300 --> 01:27:03.000 was born with her four five other uh 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:05.520 friends uh brothers and sisters and she 01:27:05.520 --> 01:27:07.139 was born late like she came out two days 01:27:07.139 --> 01:27:09.000 later than the others 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:10.679 and the mother didn't like the mother 01:27:10.679 --> 01:27:12.060 rejected her 01:27:12.060 --> 01:27:13.980 and then eventually the mother forgot 01:27:13.980 --> 01:27:16.800 because the timing was off right it was 01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:19.679 like what is this you know she was done 01:27:19.679 --> 01:27:21.659 with thinking of her babies as babies 01:27:21.659 --> 01:27:25.199 and and the hormones change but anyways 01:27:25.199 --> 01:27:28.020 she eventually hung out with other 01:27:28.020 --> 01:27:30.540 brothers and sisters but they picked on 01:27:30.540 --> 01:27:33.780 her and then I tried to isolate her the 01:27:33.780 --> 01:27:35.460 more you isolated her the more they 01:27:35.460 --> 01:27:37.020 thought her as other and the more they 01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:39.420 picked on her and then one day she 01:27:39.420 --> 01:27:41.280 wouldn't come in she got so she she 01:27:41.280 --> 01:27:42.540 wouldn't come into the duck house 01:27:42.540 --> 01:27:44.100 because she was like 01:27:44.100 --> 01:27:47.880 stuck in there with bullies and she 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:49.440 stayed out and of course something got 01:27:49.440 --> 01:27:51.780 her and so my point is is that when you 01:27:51.780 --> 01:27:55.020 think of the body the human body as 01:27:55.020 --> 01:27:57.719 nature there are things we have no 01:27:57.719 --> 01:28:00.239 control over it's not because we are 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:03.120 doing this and it's causing that 01:28:03.120 --> 01:28:07.380 and you still try to do like this is 01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:08.580 what I'm going to talk about the moral 01:28:08.580 --> 01:28:11.940 animal like what comes up 01:28:11.940 --> 01:28:19.500 in your system despite the fact that you 01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:22.139 know you don't have a direct cause and 01:28:22.139 --> 01:28:23.880 effect in any of this 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:27.239 and it can be very humbling to to 01:28:27.239 --> 01:28:30.300 realize that the simplest level 01:28:30.300 --> 01:28:32.340 I'm not gonna you know the only thing I 01:28:32.340 --> 01:28:34.739 can do I can't isolate him forever 01:28:34.739 --> 01:28:36.719 because he doesn't want to live I can't 01:28:36.719 --> 01:28:38.520 put him with a bunch of bullies because 01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:40.440 they'll kill him I can't let them go 01:28:40.440 --> 01:28:41.940 outside because he's the first one the 01:28:41.940 --> 01:28:44.280 hawk will get and this is 01:28:44.280 --> 01:28:47.820 the systemic this is called entanglement 01:28:47.820 --> 01:28:49.560 everybody likes to say everything's 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:51.780 entangled and you think this is like a 01:28:51.780 --> 01:28:55.320 beautiful thing no entangled means 01:28:55.320 --> 01:28:58.920 something else it means it's very rich 01:28:58.920 --> 01:28:59.840 and 01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:02.880 saturated and painful and beautiful at 01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:04.560 the same time and so this is what we're 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:06.060 going to talk about in the fall like 01:29:06.060 --> 01:29:09.420 this perspective is the collective 01:29:09.420 --> 01:29:14.000 perspective and and and uh 01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:17.880 and the complexity is overwhelming it's 01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:18.900 it's 01:29:18.900 --> 01:29:21.500 so then how do you become a moral animal 01:29:21.500 --> 01:29:24.300 understanding yourself as a member of 01:29:24.300 --> 01:29:25.380 this 01:29:25.380 --> 01:29:28.199 this I hate these word system but you 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:30.000 know what I mean and this is like what 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:31.980 the new theory of the body is it's from 01:29:31.980 --> 01:29:34.320 this perspective which it eventually 01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:36.659 becomes a more mystical perspective and 01:29:36.659 --> 01:29:38.400 you don't really 01:29:38.400 --> 01:29:40.860 less practical maybe but it shifts 01:29:40.860 --> 01:29:42.300 perception 01:29:42.300 --> 01:29:44.219 and 01:29:44.219 --> 01:29:47.639 um and uh 01:29:47.639 --> 01:29:49.820 um 01:29:51.480 --> 01:29:55.880 yeah something like that Holly 01:29:57.540 --> 01:29:59.960 yeah I mean I remember hearing Charles 01:29:59.960 --> 01:30:02.639 eisenstein say you know our our goal 01:30:02.639 --> 01:30:04.500 shouldn't be to survive like survival 01:30:04.500 --> 01:30:06.540 shouldn't really be our goal per se it's 01:30:06.540 --> 01:30:08.520 a species 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:10.080 um and something I I've been really 01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:12.840 holding close is is this word devotion 01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:14.159 and 01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:16.020 being devoted 01:30:16.020 --> 01:30:17.940 um 01:30:17.940 --> 01:30:20.159 being a devoted human being to the world 01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:21.420 around me 01:30:21.420 --> 01:30:22.080 um 01:30:22.080 --> 01:30:23.580 and that includes just like giving 01:30:23.580 --> 01:30:27.480 praise for for what's around me 01:30:27.480 --> 01:30:29.580 um and I keep coming back Bonnie to that 01:30:29.580 --> 01:30:30.960 story you told at the workshop about 01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:33.659 trust and The Ledger and like how much 01:30:33.659 --> 01:30:35.219 you hated The Ledger you noticed 01:30:35.219 --> 01:30:37.440 The Ledger was alive and it was like I 01:30:37.440 --> 01:30:39.780 hate this thing 01:30:39.780 --> 01:30:42.120 um which kind of gave this motivation to 01:30:42.120 --> 01:30:44.460 really work with it and um I'm just 01:30:44.460 --> 01:30:47.580 noticing again like How Deeply the 01:30:47.580 --> 01:30:48.960 malware runs 01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:52.679 um as I'm like really devoting myself 01:30:52.679 --> 01:30:54.000 um 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.280 it's Relentless it's like and and I just 01:30:56.280 --> 01:30:57.900 keep having to come back to this like 01:30:57.900 --> 01:31:00.000 Mantra of like do not feed the malware 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:01.980 do not feed the monsters don't feed them 01:31:01.980 --> 01:31:03.840 they they feed on your attention and 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.600 they Feast on your fear 01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:10.020 but it's it's really hard and 01:31:10.020 --> 01:31:11.040 um 01:31:11.040 --> 01:31:12.840 and I you know it's like I don't know 01:31:12.840 --> 01:31:14.460 any other way though I don't you know 01:31:14.460 --> 01:31:16.500 other than to just keep coming back to 01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:18.000 this 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:19.440 um 01:31:19.440 --> 01:31:21.719 thou to being devoted to the world 01:31:21.719 --> 01:31:24.239 around me because that's there's like no 01:31:24.239 --> 01:31:25.679 other way there's no that's like what 01:31:25.679 --> 01:31:27.239 I'm called to do 01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:28.199 um 01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:30.600 and trusting that I have the capacity to 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:32.159 hold that like trusting that I have the 01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:34.260 capacity to 01:31:34.260 --> 01:31:36.179 work through whatever whatever malware 01:31:36.179 --> 01:31:39.679 needs to be worked through 01:31:48.420 --> 01:31:51.739 that that ledger 01:31:51.739 --> 01:31:54.600 conversation and 01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:58.560 how it ties to justification 01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.080 has been really 01:32:01.080 --> 01:32:05.600 a very much in my body 01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:09.239 noticing the 01:32:09.239 --> 01:32:10.679 uh 01:32:10.679 --> 01:32:16.440 the subtle and not so subtle tracking of 01:32:16.440 --> 01:32:21.199 this and that and the 01:32:21.780 --> 01:32:25.860 the calibration that is part of the 01:32:25.860 --> 01:32:30.540 malware is profound it just 01:32:30.540 --> 01:32:33.120 and I hate the Ledger and it's 01:32:33.120 --> 01:32:35.780 still here 01:32:40.440 --> 01:32:42.239 's eisenstein thoughts about the gift 01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:43.980 economy this is what he's talking about 01:32:43.980 --> 01:32:47.580 like the very it's interesting because 01:32:47.580 --> 01:32:50.820 we all agree but then when you expose 01:32:50.820 --> 01:32:53.820 the malware in yourself at this micro 01:32:53.820 --> 01:32:56.219 level 01:32:56.219 --> 01:32:57.960 um 01:32:57.960 --> 01:33:00.659 um but but the but the good news is is 01:33:00.659 --> 01:33:02.520 that's where you actually have leverage 01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:04.860 to change like you can't go out and 01:33:04.860 --> 01:33:07.080 create you know and so it's yes Holly 01:33:07.080 --> 01:33:09.480 it's hard to get rid of but you only 01:33:09.480 --> 01:33:11.639 have one enemy and it's right there and 01:33:11.639 --> 01:33:14.580 you just keep like you know blasting it 01:33:14.580 --> 01:33:17.639 with like some kind of turbocharged 01:33:17.639 --> 01:33:22.199 laser stand you use your mental stare 01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:25.560 it's like the you know like as lasers to 01:33:25.560 --> 01:33:28.980 burn it out like and and and 01:33:28.980 --> 01:33:31.320 um uh 01:33:31.320 --> 01:33:33.780 and then you have maximum then so that's 01:33:33.780 --> 01:33:36.120 the good news about it that that it's 01:33:36.120 --> 01:33:38.219 not so complex it's a little bit 01:33:38.219 --> 01:33:40.739 complicated and it 01:33:40.739 --> 01:33:42.960 gets subtler and subtler and more clever 01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:45.960 uh that's kind of funny but it's right 01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:47.219 there it's right there where you can 01:33:47.219 --> 01:33:48.780 work with it 01:33:48.780 --> 01:33:50.880 um especially once it gets loud because 01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:53.159 it gets it's it's so loud that even even 01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:55.560 as it gets subtler it seems very loud 01:33:55.560 --> 01:33:58.560 like like your mother tries to tell you 01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:00.960 to clean up your room and she notices 01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:03.000 you get mad and then she goes can you 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:05.040 please clean up your room and you're so 01:34:05.040 --> 01:34:08.460 triggered like this is this is using 01:34:08.460 --> 01:34:11.460 that kind of trigger mechanism 01:34:11.460 --> 01:34:16.920 um to to to get that get that out and 01:34:16.920 --> 01:34:18.840 um uh 01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:20.219 yeah 01:34:20.219 --> 01:34:22.199 that was a good question I think I think 01:34:22.199 --> 01:34:25.199 Sophia asked that but 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:26.639 um that's a big one it's a big one 01:34:26.639 --> 01:34:29.300 because we live in you know capitalist 01:34:29.300 --> 01:34:33.600 society and I don't know I don't know 01:34:33.600 --> 01:34:35.400 how far back it goes 01:34:35.400 --> 01:34:36.900 um which is different than a sense of 01:34:36.900 --> 01:34:39.239 fairness but 01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:40.320 um 01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:43.020 yeah it's nice to see that reflected 01:34:43.020 --> 01:34:45.480 back because this is how the I am with 01:34:45.480 --> 01:34:49.440 all this malware like like just 01:34:49.440 --> 01:34:51.620 um 01:34:52.199 --> 01:34:54.739 yeah 01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:00.300 it also gives you compassion for the way 01:35:00.300 --> 01:35:02.340 the world works because 01:35:02.340 --> 01:35:06.540 um to even have the experience someone 01:35:06.540 --> 01:35:08.760 pointing it out to you so you can see it 01:35:08.760 --> 01:35:11.580 so you can work on it is is not 01:35:11.580 --> 01:35:13.800 something that many people have the 01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:17.360 opportunity to experience 01:35:21.719 --> 01:35:23.760 so for those of you listening or haven't 01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:25.880 heard The Ledger is like 01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:29.040 when you find yourself I was talking 01:35:29.040 --> 01:35:30.900 about in a relationship with your 01:35:30.900 --> 01:35:34.380 partner you find yourself having like a 01:35:34.380 --> 01:35:36.239 little Ledger I'm doing a little more 01:35:36.239 --> 01:35:39.600 he's owes me a little less and and then 01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:41.520 you notice you're doing this at work and 01:35:41.520 --> 01:35:43.320 you're doing this with society and 01:35:43.320 --> 01:35:47.000 you're always calculating like 01:35:47.639 --> 01:35:49.980 it making sure you get as much as you 01:35:49.980 --> 01:35:53.520 give and and it's and 01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:55.800 um so it's one thing to have that 01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:58.080 relationship with the bank uh it's 01:35:58.080 --> 01:36:00.360 another thing to notice that there's a 01:36:00.360 --> 01:36:02.639 little Ledger in your head that is 01:36:02.639 --> 01:36:04.620 calculating 01:36:04.620 --> 01:36:07.679 um experience like this all the time 01:36:07.679 --> 01:36:08.400 um 01:36:08.400 --> 01:36:10.500 and of course 01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:14.100 um rarely is does The Ledger tell you 01:36:14.100 --> 01:36:16.380 that you owe everybody else a lot more 01:36:16.380 --> 01:36:18.239 this is a double whammy The Ledger 01:36:18.239 --> 01:36:20.699 itself is horrible but it's usually 01:36:20.699 --> 01:36:25.620 rather biased in what it calculates uh 01:36:25.620 --> 01:36:26.940 um especially because you can't have 01:36:26.940 --> 01:36:29.460 first person experience of what effort 01:36:29.460 --> 01:36:32.820 somebody else has put into you so 01:36:32.820 --> 01:36:36.600 um yeah it's a it's a cruel cruel uh 01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:39.139 master 01:36:40.620 --> 01:36:43.199 let's face it there's a lot of slackers 01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:45.679 out there 01:36:53.639 --> 01:36:55.679 yeah it just feels like this work is not 01:36:55.679 --> 01:36:57.000 for the faint of heart it really does 01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:58.739 take a lot of courage and then it takes 01:36:58.739 --> 01:37:00.300 it takes a community it takes other 01:37:00.300 --> 01:37:03.139 people you know 01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:11.219 yeah especially because you sometimes we 01:37:11.219 --> 01:37:13.500 have a ledger around our work like 01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:16.020 little Sudley down the road I think I'm 01:37:16.020 --> 01:37:17.820 gonna write the book and make a lot of 01:37:17.820 --> 01:37:20.040 money you know like 01:37:20.040 --> 01:37:21.900 like it's just 01:37:21.900 --> 01:37:25.639 it's just dizzying 01:37:28.080 --> 01:37:30.540 yeah and we also have the world to help 01:37:30.540 --> 01:37:31.440 us 01:37:31.440 --> 01:37:34.560 there's always Beautiful Moments you 01:37:34.560 --> 01:37:36.679 know 01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:42.920 so do peacocks have a ledger 01:37:43.139 --> 01:37:45.960 well that's interesting I don't think so 01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:48.840 I think peacocks are just 01:37:48.840 --> 01:37:51.440 they're just 01:37:51.440 --> 01:37:54.800 peacocking I mean 01:37:56.460 --> 01:37:58.800 I think they really like to show off I 01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:02.940 don't think it's like like uh I don't 01:38:02.940 --> 01:38:04.380 even think it's that I think that's the 01:38:04.380 --> 01:38:06.960 I think that's the consequence but I 01:38:06.960 --> 01:38:09.600 think they just like to show show off 01:38:09.600 --> 01:38:11.340 you know 01:38:11.340 --> 01:38:13.400 um 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:18.980 especially like well never mind 01:38:28.500 --> 01:38:31.739 which is why well I suppose I just say 01:38:31.739 --> 01:38:34.860 which is why you need peacock energy to 01:38:34.860 --> 01:38:38.040 to write a book because you have to have 01:38:38.040 --> 01:38:40.380 energy whether it's gonna make you're 01:38:40.380 --> 01:38:42.060 gonna get laid or not you know that's to 01:38:42.060 --> 01:38:44.340 me what peacock energy is It's gotta you 01:38:44.340 --> 01:38:45.840 just gotta 01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:48.420 yeah go ahead John 01:38:48.420 --> 01:38:50.400 I'm just saying that's supposed to be a 01:38:50.400 --> 01:38:52.800 peacock but I raised by my mother so I'm 01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:56.340 kind of a combination and uh definitely 01:38:56.340 --> 01:39:02.639 that's not my goal uh but uh I have uh 01:39:02.639 --> 01:39:05.520 I do have that non-receptable care and a 01:39:05.520 --> 01:39:07.679 person that I'm living with but I I do 01:39:07.679 --> 01:39:11.219 have a ledger because she she's supposed 01:39:11.219 --> 01:39:15.000 to do 300 worth of work a month and it 01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:18.300 should be 500. uh but she has just her 01:39:18.300 --> 01:39:20.580 own thing and I can't enforce her so 01:39:20.580 --> 01:39:23.400 it's non-recipical and so I have my 01:39:23.400 --> 01:39:26.159 ledger so because I keep trying to work 01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:28.760 with it 01:39:28.860 --> 01:39:31.260 but she's valuable for the company for 01:39:31.260 --> 01:39:34.580 my centers so you know it's an exchange 01:39:34.580 --> 01:39:39.239 so so I just have to balance that out so 01:39:39.239 --> 01:39:41.040 thanks to the conversation 01:39:41.040 --> 01:39:43.739 yeah so a ledger is good for an economy 01:39:43.739 --> 01:39:45.780 if you're in an economic relationship 01:39:45.780 --> 01:39:48.000 and this is a very good constraint you 01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:49.880 never want your kids never to understand 01:39:49.880 --> 01:39:52.739 their value and exchange value and stuff 01:39:52.739 --> 01:39:54.960 like that it's whether you're running a 01:39:54.960 --> 01:39:57.900 ledger in these other domains 01:39:57.900 --> 01:39:59.820 um where you probably shouldn't be 01:39:59.820 --> 01:40:01.679 running a ledger like between you and 01:40:01.679 --> 01:40:03.600 your husband or you and your kids or you 01:40:03.600 --> 01:40:08.820 and some kind of moral devotion uh and 01:40:08.820 --> 01:40:11.280 that's not really what's happening so so 01:40:11.280 --> 01:40:14.340 it's we talk about The Ledger in in yeah 01:40:14.340 --> 01:40:18.060 those domains of care so you so it's not 01:40:18.060 --> 01:40:21.960 that The Ledger is uh inappropriate and 01:40:21.960 --> 01:40:25.260 in times it's much better it can solve 01:40:25.260 --> 01:40:28.199 very complicated complex relational 01:40:28.199 --> 01:40:30.540 problems but 01:40:30.540 --> 01:40:32.400 it's this other thing that's always 01:40:32.400 --> 01:40:36.360 counting and never in the and it counts 01:40:36.360 --> 01:40:38.040 in a way that it's never enough the 01:40:38.040 --> 01:40:39.600 return is Never Enough the always 01:40:39.600 --> 01:40:41.840 charging more interest on your labor 01:40:41.840 --> 01:40:46.440 than uh yeah so 01:40:46.440 --> 01:40:48.600 um and and when it's in the wrong domain 01:40:48.600 --> 01:40:50.340 it's completely 01:40:50.340 --> 01:40:51.679 um 01:40:51.679 --> 01:40:56.060 destructive of those relationships 01:41:06.800 --> 01:41:10.199 and body it also wants to speak 01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:14.540 sometimes doesn't it but 01:41:16.620 --> 01:41:19.920 yeah so so 01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:21.960 it depends on what level you're working 01:41:21.960 --> 01:41:24.120 with it you know sometimes it's just 01:41:24.120 --> 01:41:27.179 there and in between a relationship you 01:41:27.179 --> 01:41:29.520 just have to say I just feel like I give 01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:31.620 give give give and you don't give 01:41:31.620 --> 01:41:34.020 anything back because it's important 01:41:34.020 --> 01:41:36.179 that someone knows that you feel that 01:41:36.179 --> 01:41:39.360 way and and you don't say in a way that 01:41:39.360 --> 01:41:42.420 I give give give and you just don't give 01:41:42.420 --> 01:41:43.739 back that's not what you're saying 01:41:43.739 --> 01:41:46.980 you're saying my you know I just I just 01:41:46.980 --> 01:41:49.380 always feel this way then you can look 01:41:49.380 --> 01:41:51.060 at it why do people feel that way and 01:41:51.060 --> 01:41:52.560 there's all kinds of sometimes simple 01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:54.179 reasons 01:41:54.179 --> 01:41:56.699 um that's gotten very complex 01:41:56.699 --> 01:41:58.739 um so yes 01:41:58.739 --> 01:42:00.600 um but then there's another level at 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:03.719 which which is uh more of a 01:42:03.719 --> 01:42:05.780 uh kind of 01:42:05.780 --> 01:42:08.280 you know 01:42:08.280 --> 01:42:10.920 um wisdom practice level or something 01:42:10.920 --> 01:42:13.380 where you you just 01:42:13.380 --> 01:42:15.560 you just wanna 01:42:15.560 --> 01:42:17.940 experiment with not having that at all 01:42:17.940 --> 01:42:20.340 and that's a kind of a more radical 01:42:20.340 --> 01:42:21.780 thing 01:42:21.780 --> 01:42:22.800 um 01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:26.219 if you're if it helps then if you don't 01:42:26.219 --> 01:42:27.780 have like a real business but when 01:42:27.780 --> 01:42:29.100 you're in a business environment that's 01:42:29.100 --> 01:42:31.619 transactional too these are interesting 01:42:31.619 --> 01:42:34.080 questions you know like 01:42:34.080 --> 01:42:35.699 um and it's so you have to move between 01:42:35.699 --> 01:42:38.340 these different domains 01:42:38.340 --> 01:42:39.360 um 01:42:39.360 --> 01:42:41.280 but yeah 01:42:41.280 --> 01:42:43.280 um 01:42:43.440 --> 01:42:47.580 sometimes it's energy it's built up as a 01:42:47.580 --> 01:42:50.460 ledger because it's it's energy that 01:42:50.460 --> 01:42:51.659 should have been released as 01:42:51.659 --> 01:42:55.340 conversation so 01:42:56.100 --> 01:42:58.619 yeah that's that's an energy with it 01:42:58.619 --> 01:43:02.340 that sometimes wants to speak and you 01:43:02.340 --> 01:43:04.260 kind of know that 01:43:04.260 --> 01:43:06.060 um 01:43:06.060 --> 01:43:07.800 if you're going to speak with that kind 01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:11.219 of energy you have to slow way down 01:43:11.219 --> 01:43:14.119 moves too fast 01:43:46.380 --> 01:43:48.360 and I'm just going to say one more thing 01:43:48.360 --> 01:43:50.520 because you feel something like that and 01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:52.800 then I always want to put sometimes 01:43:52.800 --> 01:43:55.139 after it because 01:43:55.139 --> 01:43:56.880 you kind of don't want to make a big 01:43:56.880 --> 01:43:59.880 declaration for all time 01:43:59.880 --> 01:44:01.860 you know because 01:44:01.860 --> 01:44:05.360 the feeling changes 01:44:14.040 --> 01:44:16.080 yeah I appreciate that Claudia I noticed 01:44:16.080 --> 01:44:18.000 that when I'm like using the words 01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.840 always never or should like I there's 01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:23.820 something there's the red flags you know 01:44:23.820 --> 01:44:26.219 like what am I doing and that's great it 01:44:26.219 --> 01:44:28.260 causes me to slow down and investigate 01:44:28.260 --> 01:44:30.800 further 01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:32.280 yeah I'm usually foreclosing on 01:44:32.280 --> 01:44:34.520 something 01:44:42.900 --> 01:44:45.360 we could we could and if you want to 01:44:45.360 --> 01:44:47.400 just close this conversation Around The 01:44:47.400 --> 01:44:49.440 Ledger what what we didn't do in that 01:44:49.440 --> 01:44:51.960 workshop and 01:44:51.960 --> 01:44:54.840 um so we did the trust 01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:57.780 the trust Workshop always comes with 01:44:57.780 --> 01:45:00.900 trust power and action thresholds 01:45:00.900 --> 01:45:03.179 um so hopefully maybe we can do it in 01:45:03.179 --> 01:45:05.940 that same venue the other two but 01:45:05.940 --> 01:45:09.719 um The Ledger and and this I think is 01:45:09.719 --> 01:45:13.560 maybe helpful so The Ledger is an 01:45:13.560 --> 01:45:16.980 economy an economy 01:45:16.980 --> 01:45:17.820 um 01:45:17.820 --> 01:45:20.159 has to do with 01:45:20.159 --> 01:45:23.940 um action action threshold so 01:45:23.940 --> 01:45:25.800 so 01:45:25.800 --> 01:45:28.040 um all economic 01:45:28.040 --> 01:45:31.260 instruments are created to lower action 01:45:31.260 --> 01:45:34.860 thresholds right so it's easier for me 01:45:34.860 --> 01:45:37.340 to barter a sheepskin 01:45:37.340 --> 01:45:41.540 for a pound of rice if I have a coin 01:45:41.540 --> 01:45:44.699 that can evaluate it so now it's much 01:45:44.699 --> 01:45:46.920 easier we have to sit and bargain and 01:45:46.920 --> 01:45:50.760 okay and so it's easier much easier to 01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:54.780 create a credit card now everything in 01:45:54.780 --> 01:45:58.139 the system can move faster so every if 01:45:58.139 --> 01:46:01.440 you want to define a economy it has an 01:46:01.440 --> 01:46:03.420 instrument like a ledger which is a 01:46:03.420 --> 01:46:06.239 system of valuation that lowers action 01:46:06.239 --> 01:46:07.980 thresholds if it doesn't lower action 01:46:07.980 --> 01:46:10.619 thresholds it's not an economy it works 01:46:10.619 --> 01:46:12.360 in the opposite way 01:46:12.360 --> 01:46:14.760 and so what you're talking about Claudia 01:46:14.760 --> 01:46:17.580 is The Ledger that builds up and builds 01:46:17.580 --> 01:46:19.739 up until it lowers the action threshold 01:46:19.739 --> 01:46:22.320 you have to say it 01:46:22.320 --> 01:46:24.440 um and and and 01:46:24.440 --> 01:46:28.260 this is also the ancient ledgers where 01:46:28.260 --> 01:46:30.980 you know you keep accounting of how much 01:46:30.980 --> 01:46:35.100 someone in the community has has O's and 01:46:35.100 --> 01:46:39.179 O's and O's until you have to break that 01:46:39.179 --> 01:46:42.600 cycle or something like that so 01:46:42.600 --> 01:46:44.580 um economies always lower action 01:46:44.580 --> 01:46:46.560 thresholds of course the problem with 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:49.139 the modern system is we have too many 01:46:49.139 --> 01:46:51.420 economic action protocols so everything 01:46:51.420 --> 01:46:55.679 we do is to speed up us and we have the 01:46:55.679 --> 01:46:57.900 other two things which is trust and 01:46:57.900 --> 01:46:59.280 power 01:46:59.280 --> 01:47:04.860 um that should uh cycle with uh 01:47:04.860 --> 01:47:08.699 there are there are breaks on 01:47:08.699 --> 01:47:11.219 no system should just blow action 01:47:11.219 --> 01:47:13.679 thresholds there's needs to be systems 01:47:13.679 --> 01:47:15.420 in a healthy system 01:47:15.420 --> 01:47:18.540 that also raises the thresholds for 01:47:18.540 --> 01:47:20.520 Action right 01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:23.580 um so trust is something trust and trust 01:47:23.580 --> 01:47:27.780 is something that will raise uh the 01:47:27.780 --> 01:47:29.880 threshold for Action so if someone's 01:47:29.880 --> 01:47:33.000 going out on a binge uh you don't trust 01:47:33.000 --> 01:47:35.159 them with that you you take the you know 01:47:35.159 --> 01:47:36.780 you take the keys away from your kid 01:47:36.780 --> 01:47:38.699 that you don't trust because the keys 01:47:38.699 --> 01:47:40.619 are making 01:47:40.619 --> 01:47:42.900 action there's too much action on the 01:47:42.900 --> 01:47:45.679 other side so trust ideally 01:47:45.679 --> 01:47:49.739 counter valences uh 01:47:49.739 --> 01:47:52.440 the economy so trust is the purview of 01:47:52.440 --> 01:47:54.840 the of the governance the problem our 01:47:54.840 --> 01:47:56.820 government is only an economic system 01:47:56.820 --> 01:48:00.360 now you see this is It's supposed to be 01:48:00.360 --> 01:48:03.179 like uh complex systems have complex 01:48:03.179 --> 01:48:06.060 feedback loops sometimes it adds and 01:48:06.060 --> 01:48:08.219 sometimes it takes away and then the 01:48:08.219 --> 01:48:11.219 third one is the power situation all 01:48:11.219 --> 01:48:16.800 all complex systems go through cycles of 01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:20.340 power cycles and 01:48:20.340 --> 01:48:22.560 um and 01:48:22.560 --> 01:48:24.679 um trust and and 01:48:24.679 --> 01:48:27.360 governance the trust system which is the 01:48:27.360 --> 01:48:28.980 governance and the action threshold 01:48:28.980 --> 01:48:30.480 system which is the economy by 01:48:30.480 --> 01:48:33.119 themselves will not Balance power so you 01:48:33.119 --> 01:48:37.320 need a third system a welfare system or 01:48:37.320 --> 01:48:40.080 education and all these other systems 01:48:40.080 --> 01:48:42.260 that are in a healthy uh 01:48:42.260 --> 01:48:43.920 Society 01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:47.280 is the third the third Dynamic and 01:48:47.280 --> 01:48:49.800 sometimes that system skews power one 01:48:49.800 --> 01:48:52.920 way or the other and again we don't we 01:48:52.920 --> 01:48:55.199 we have those and we have a governance 01:48:55.199 --> 01:48:57.500 in our society but almost all of them 01:48:57.500 --> 01:49:02.659 are set up like action threshold 01:49:02.659 --> 01:49:05.159 they're all take on the action protocol 01:49:05.159 --> 01:49:07.380 of the economic system 01:49:07.380 --> 01:49:10.739 and they're not they're not balanced so 01:49:10.739 --> 01:49:16.500 um yeah so that's part of the larger uh 01:49:16.500 --> 01:49:19.619 the larger we just did that little piece 01:49:19.619 --> 01:49:22.920 on trust we didn't really do 01:49:22.920 --> 01:49:24.920 the larger 01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:28.199 macro system that is a society but 01:49:28.199 --> 01:49:32.300 that's an interesting conversation too 01:49:37.619 --> 01:49:41.520 you see one of the things about power is 01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:44.760 how do you how do you balance power in a 01:49:44.760 --> 01:49:46.320 system 01:49:46.320 --> 01:49:49.260 um well right now our system balances 01:49:49.260 --> 01:49:51.000 Power by 01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:56.179 see so power is my resources 01:49:56.219 --> 01:49:59.159 and skills by skills and resources 01:49:59.159 --> 01:50:02.639 divided by my needs and wants that's my 01:50:02.639 --> 01:50:04.560 power equation 01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:07.980 so I meet up with a bear I have certain 01:50:07.980 --> 01:50:10.560 skills and resources and the bear has 01:50:10.560 --> 01:50:12.659 certain skills and resources and I have 01:50:12.659 --> 01:50:14.040 certain needs and wants and that bear 01:50:14.040 --> 01:50:15.960 has certain needs and wants and whoever 01:50:15.960 --> 01:50:18.960 whatever happens in the interaction 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:22.639 will be determined by the that that 01:50:22.639 --> 01:50:26.159 equation right so 01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:28.800 um if the barrel has a lot of want for 01:50:28.800 --> 01:50:30.119 my food 01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:32.280 that puts them in a certain power 01:50:32.280 --> 01:50:35.820 equation that if I have a gun uh then I 01:50:35.820 --> 01:50:38.520 put but if I have a if I don't have any 01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:41.820 karaoke eats my food or not so you see 01:50:41.820 --> 01:50:44.940 and the problem with our culture 01:50:44.940 --> 01:50:47.600 is that it only uh talks about 01:50:47.600 --> 01:50:50.699 increasing your skills and resources 01:50:50.699 --> 01:50:53.420 because it works with the economy 01:50:53.420 --> 01:50:56.340 everything is skewed and it doesn't talk 01:50:56.340 --> 01:50:58.679 about lowering the needs and wants 01:50:58.679 --> 01:51:00.960 and the best way if you want in this 01:51:00.960 --> 01:51:01.980 culture 01:51:01.980 --> 01:51:04.139 to get gain power 01:51:04.139 --> 01:51:07.020 is to lower your needs and wants and not 01:51:07.020 --> 01:51:08.520 spend all your time trying to increase 01:51:08.520 --> 01:51:11.900 your skills or resources 01:51:13.320 --> 01:51:17.100 and this is the and you can see why the 01:51:17.100 --> 01:51:18.780 the the top of the equation is 01:51:18.780 --> 01:51:22.080 emphasized because it feeds into 01:51:22.080 --> 01:51:24.780 increasing more action so everything the 01:51:24.780 --> 01:51:27.179 other two sides of the system are all 01:51:27.179 --> 01:51:29.820 skewed toward the third side of the 01:51:29.820 --> 01:51:32.060 system 01:51:38.100 --> 01:51:40.260 so and now we go off in that tangent 01:51:40.260 --> 01:51:42.119 that's a whole nother 01:51:42.119 --> 01:51:45.000 well it seems to be related to what uh 01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:48.420 you read in your book in a way 01:51:48.420 --> 01:51:51.360 and me promoting my Center 01:51:51.360 --> 01:51:53.460 I'm trying to get deeper into my 01:51:53.460 --> 01:51:56.280 meditation teaching and I'm going out to 01:51:56.280 --> 01:51:59.040 do that and it's trying to acquire more 01:51:59.040 --> 01:52:00.600 but then so 01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:03.239 I can have more power but now you're 01:52:03.239 --> 01:52:06.239 saying I I'd have more power but not 01:52:06.239 --> 01:52:07.920 doing all of that and just being happy 01:52:07.920 --> 01:52:10.920 in my little corner balanced out in all 01:52:10.920 --> 01:52:12.840 my resources 01:52:12.840 --> 01:52:15.480 but at the same time you want to go out 01:52:15.480 --> 01:52:18.260 there I want to go out there 01:52:18.260 --> 01:52:20.699 there's a constant check like the first 01:52:20.699 --> 01:52:25.320 time I gave that that Workshop was in um 01:52:25.320 --> 01:52:27.420 just outside of Berlin at a retreat 01:52:27.420 --> 01:52:30.780 center and you know it's the same thing 01:52:30.780 --> 01:52:32.400 like in the trust you do this little 01:52:32.400 --> 01:52:33.480 thing 01:52:33.480 --> 01:52:35.520 if someone looked up and said 01:52:35.520 --> 01:52:38.219 that's why my wife has more power than 01:52:38.219 --> 01:52:39.480 me 01:52:39.480 --> 01:52:41.940 it was so obvious 01:52:41.940 --> 01:52:43.860 because she didn't really give a 01:52:43.860 --> 01:52:46.980 about and he was always constantly 01:52:46.980 --> 01:52:48.960 needing her attention 01:52:48.960 --> 01:52:52.739 and it was so obvious to him that that 01:52:52.739 --> 01:52:54.960 that that that was the part of the 01:52:54.960 --> 01:52:57.360 equation he had to work on 01:52:57.360 --> 01:53:00.739 that he wasn't sovereign 01:53:01.440 --> 01:53:04.260 but it looked like it's the same like 01:53:04.260 --> 01:53:06.840 when you're a teenager this is this this 01:53:06.840 --> 01:53:08.940 one thing could be taught this is a good 01:53:08.940 --> 01:53:10.320 thing for high school you want to talk 01:53:10.320 --> 01:53:12.659 about High School curriculum if you're a 01:53:12.659 --> 01:53:14.280 teenager I can honestly speak as a 01:53:14.280 --> 01:53:16.560 teenage girl and you walk in you know 01:53:16.560 --> 01:53:18.900 like a little party and this guy comes 01:53:18.900 --> 01:53:20.760 over to you and 01:53:20.760 --> 01:53:23.760 your your whole body shits right you 01:53:23.760 --> 01:53:26.940 because you can't talk okay this person 01:53:26.940 --> 01:53:29.520 has power over you 01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:33.060 because power is who gets to move who 01:53:33.060 --> 01:53:35.820 who gets to move who that could be 01:53:35.820 --> 01:53:37.920 interpreted as that person is being 01:53:37.920 --> 01:53:40.320 aggressive just by the fact that your 01:53:40.320 --> 01:53:42.600 hormones are moving because that is what 01:53:42.600 --> 01:53:44.580 power is who gets to move who he's 01:53:44.580 --> 01:53:49.800 moving my whole body right he's like so 01:53:49.800 --> 01:53:54.000 the problem is you identify them as an 01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:56.760 aggressor versus like you don't have 01:53:56.760 --> 01:54:00.780 sovereignty over your own your own body 01:54:00.780 --> 01:54:02.639 um so 01:54:02.639 --> 01:54:03.659 um 01:54:03.659 --> 01:54:04.619 um 01:54:04.619 --> 01:54:08.159 yeah understanding this this the complex 01:54:08.159 --> 01:54:09.900 uh 01:54:09.900 --> 01:54:12.360 system with complex field Loops it is 01:54:12.360 --> 01:54:15.420 the human system at this level the 01:54:15.420 --> 01:54:18.060 institutional level is very is very 01:54:18.060 --> 01:54:19.860 interesting 01:54:19.860 --> 01:54:21.920 um 01:54:22.320 --> 01:54:24.060 yeah 01:54:24.060 --> 01:54:27.360 yeah but I don't know I mean there I 01:54:27.360 --> 01:54:29.699 think I sense a little bit of 01:54:29.699 --> 01:54:30.300 um 01:54:30.300 --> 01:54:34.860 you know I want to hold the Paradox you 01:54:34.860 --> 01:54:37.139 know of one of the sessions where you 01:54:37.139 --> 01:54:39.600 ended still rings in my ears saying 01:54:39.600 --> 01:54:42.900 people just don't care people just don't 01:54:42.900 --> 01:54:46.619 care I mean so I mean where where does 01:54:46.619 --> 01:54:48.659 the body the human body 01:54:48.659 --> 01:54:52.619 and our sovereignty in this whole idea 01:54:52.619 --> 01:54:56.159 that you are to master that you know 01:54:56.159 --> 01:54:58.199 hormonal whatever 01:54:58.199 --> 01:55:01.219 as opposed to 01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:04.619 um perhaps being able to 01:55:04.619 --> 01:55:07.560 you know make a joke about it like you 01:55:07.560 --> 01:55:09.900 just walked up to me and look at me I'm 01:55:09.900 --> 01:55:13.920 just red all over and and where you make 01:55:13.920 --> 01:55:16.500 fun of yourself and in that way 01:55:16.500 --> 01:55:18.360 you know kind of 01:55:18.360 --> 01:55:22.260 um um slide off the spell of this 01:55:22.260 --> 01:55:25.139 supposed power to move you 01:55:25.139 --> 01:55:27.239 I don't know if this is making any sense 01:55:27.239 --> 01:55:28.739 I think I was saying people don't care 01:55:28.739 --> 01:55:30.179 because they don't care about the 01:55:30.179 --> 01:55:31.679 environment they don't really care about 01:55:31.679 --> 01:55:33.300 nature they don't really care about 01:55:33.300 --> 01:55:35.699 other people they're just overwhelmed 01:55:35.699 --> 01:55:38.699 with themselves basically 01:55:38.699 --> 01:55:40.920 um they you know that's why they have we 01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:42.900 have ledgers and all this stuff and so 01:55:42.900 --> 01:55:45.780 that's what I was saying we we don't 01:55:45.780 --> 01:55:47.460 take care of things because we don't 01:55:47.460 --> 01:55:50.280 care about those things and we 01:55:50.280 --> 01:55:53.040 you know it's all very 01:55:53.040 --> 01:55:54.840 everything we evaluate everything 01:55:54.840 --> 01:55:58.920 according to our own our own self 01:55:58.920 --> 01:56:00.600 um including 01:56:00.600 --> 01:56:03.840 um yeah so uh that's the shift from 01:56:03.840 --> 01:56:06.420 egocentric to allocentric 01:56:06.420 --> 01:56:07.700 um so 01:56:07.700 --> 01:56:08.159 [Music] 01:56:08.159 --> 01:56:09.719 um 01:56:09.719 --> 01:56:11.820 um but 01:56:11.820 --> 01:56:12.860 um 01:56:12.860 --> 01:56:14.719 what is 01:56:14.719 --> 01:56:16.980 what is 01:56:16.980 --> 01:56:20.300 um the move here is to understand 01:56:20.300 --> 01:56:23.820 why is it that this is happening to me 01:56:23.820 --> 01:56:28.440 and that it's that it's not uh what I 01:56:28.440 --> 01:56:29.780 you know 01:56:29.780 --> 01:56:32.460 what I I mean a lot of people know this 01:56:32.460 --> 01:56:34.679 they're aware of this but 01:56:34.679 --> 01:56:37.940 and understanding that the 01:56:37.940 --> 01:56:40.980 situation is is unstable because your 01:56:40.980 --> 01:56:44.820 body is unstable and perhaps uh 01:56:44.820 --> 01:56:47.040 understanding that the if you want to 01:56:47.040 --> 01:56:51.060 fix that then the direct method is to 01:56:51.060 --> 01:56:55.139 have control of your dispositional state 01:56:55.139 --> 01:56:58.560 um and but we noticed that and then you 01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:02.219 might notice that despite this feeling I 01:57:02.219 --> 01:57:05.159 keep approaching uh that situation I 01:57:05.159 --> 01:57:06.960 don't avoid it and that's an interesting 01:57:06.960 --> 01:57:08.639 question 01:57:08.639 --> 01:57:11.040 um and then 01:57:11.040 --> 01:57:14.340 um understanding that the situation is 01:57:14.340 --> 01:57:17.639 more complex than than what maybe the 01:57:17.639 --> 01:57:21.300 societal script will have me no 01:57:21.300 --> 01:57:25.139 um maybe bodies sometimes are like uh 01:57:25.139 --> 01:57:27.840 are Like Moths To Flames here's another 01:57:27.840 --> 01:57:30.599 monstrous conversations maybe my body is 01:57:30.599 --> 01:57:33.420 like a moth to Flame and it's not just 01:57:33.420 --> 01:57:36.119 that the other person's an 01:57:36.119 --> 01:57:38.760 um so like I had what I call bad boy 01:57:38.760 --> 01:57:40.920 syndrome for a long time I mean I just 01:57:40.920 --> 01:57:44.280 was very attracted to men who I would 01:57:44.280 --> 01:57:46.320 call bad boy syndromes you know like 01:57:46.320 --> 01:57:49.260 they're not people you want to devote 01:57:49.260 --> 01:57:51.360 yourself to but 01:57:51.360 --> 01:57:54.300 there was a reality there I'm off to a 01:57:54.300 --> 01:57:56.460 flame moth to a flame moth to a flame 01:57:56.460 --> 01:57:58.679 moth to a flame what's that what's going 01:57:58.679 --> 01:57:59.760 on there 01:57:59.760 --> 01:58:03.360 that's an interesting phenomenon uh it's 01:58:03.360 --> 01:58:05.340 I'm not saying we should be like that or 01:58:05.340 --> 01:58:08.400 we have but it is something that some 01:58:08.400 --> 01:58:10.739 people go phases they are they go 01:58:10.739 --> 01:58:13.860 through what is that what is that's a 01:58:13.860 --> 01:58:16.980 very interesting thing and 01:58:16.980 --> 01:58:19.679 um it's in this comes back to shame I 01:58:19.679 --> 01:58:21.659 don't want to be ashamed that I was like 01:58:21.659 --> 01:58:23.340 a moth to a flame 01:58:23.340 --> 01:58:27.000 uh because it was authentic and I knew 01:58:27.000 --> 01:58:31.500 it and yet yeah yeah I'm off to a flame 01:58:31.500 --> 01:58:34.980 um so that's what I mean that it's the 01:58:34.980 --> 01:58:38.760 complexity of what is actually uh 01:58:38.760 --> 01:58:41.400 in the system that I'm not that that I'm 01:58:41.400 --> 01:58:43.139 excluding 01:58:43.139 --> 01:58:44.280 um 01:58:44.280 --> 01:58:46.340 um 01:58:46.440 --> 01:58:48.780 and and the social scripts will only 01:58:48.780 --> 01:58:51.179 exclude you know I think this script or 01:58:51.179 --> 01:58:52.619 this script or this script they're too 01:58:52.619 --> 01:58:54.719 tidy they exclude what is actually a 01:58:54.719 --> 01:58:56.159 case 01:58:56.159 --> 01:58:59.580 um yeah so something like that 01:58:59.580 --> 01:59:00.480 um 01:59:00.480 --> 01:59:03.119 so this has been good because it shows 01:59:03.119 --> 01:59:05.580 that we did something very systematic 01:59:05.580 --> 01:59:09.900 and module like but all these real 01:59:09.900 --> 01:59:14.300 questions should be able to be 01:59:14.300 --> 01:59:18.540 seen in a new light from some of the uh 01:59:18.540 --> 01:59:21.239 background that that we've been working 01:59:21.239 --> 01:59:23.159 with and 01:59:23.159 --> 01:59:25.020 um and 01:59:25.020 --> 01:59:28.020 um yeah moving on to 01:59:28.020 --> 01:59:28.860 um 01:59:28.860 --> 01:59:29.960 yeah 01:59:29.960 --> 01:59:33.780 this is an interesting thing so 01:59:33.780 --> 01:59:37.320 um okay so with that I would like to say 01:59:37.320 --> 01:59:39.780 thank you for being here I enjoyed the 01:59:39.780 --> 01:59:42.000 company and the conversation very much 01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:44.159 and we'll have one more read it cap 01:59:44.159 --> 01:59:45.599 maybe we could look at more of what 01:59:45.599 --> 01:59:47.639 we're going to do uh when we come back 01:59:47.639 --> 01:59:50.119 in the fall ## Cohort 6 00:00:01.260 --> 00:00:03.860 foreign 00:00:05.100 --> 00:00:09.600 music as a psychotechnology 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:19.699 okay this is the final final 00:00:19.699 --> 00:00:23.100 recap session which is the final module 00:00:23.100 --> 00:00:27.119 of the 2023 00:00:27.119 --> 00:00:28.670 uh background series 00:00:28.670 --> 00:00:31.500 [Music] 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:35.360 um and I'm just going to leave it there 00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:40.379 and ask you all to uh reflect 00:00:40.379 --> 00:00:43.920 or a genufact uh 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.940 I mean reflect uh get that Catholic 00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:50.579 thing out of here 00:00:50.579 --> 00:00:56.039 um on uh yeah this year so far and 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:57.600 um 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.559 what you hope like it'd be great to know 00:01:01.559 --> 00:01:08.040 what you hope will be included 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:10.159 um 00:01:10.860 --> 00:01:15.380 in the fall sessions and if there's 00:01:15.380 --> 00:01:19.340 outstanding like 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:25.860 holes or questions or needs or something 00:01:25.860 --> 00:01:28.920 like that like something that's absent 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:34.500 um that we might uh take special pains 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:35.460 um 00:01:35.460 --> 00:01:40.439 or special Joy uh to weave into 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.159 um the content as we go forward so 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:46.140 that's just a prompt it doesn't have to 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:49.740 be that but it's something that um I 00:01:49.740 --> 00:01:52.439 hadn't prompted before so 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:56.399 um yeah what do you think and you know 00:01:56.399 --> 00:01:59.759 okay that's all I'm gonna say 00:01:59.759 --> 00:02:02.899 and I'll leave it at that 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.360 all right Bonnie I'll genuflect 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:11.280 I don't know how 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:16.220 is it this thing I'm not sure 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.720 oh okay 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:25.980 I have a question I'm a little confused 00:02:25.980 --> 00:02:30.540 in the justification module 00:02:30.959 --> 00:02:32.640 um 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:35.220 I'll read you a sentence that's kind of 00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:37.440 like where I'm stuck 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:40.260 in our theory of the body we can Chase 00:02:40.260 --> 00:02:42.900 trace the origins 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:45.300 and root ground of the justification 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:49.319 system in the virtual perceptions and 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.540 the virtual Perceptions in the animal 00:02:51.540 --> 00:02:56.400 bodies sensory motor processes 00:02:58.980 --> 00:03:01.019 so 00:03:01.019 --> 00:03:03.840 and maybe I'm getting like confused 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.239 between 00:03:05.239 --> 00:03:07.519 simulation 00:03:07.519 --> 00:03:11.519 justification virtual 00:03:11.519 --> 00:03:15.019 um perception 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:20.280 when I look at the how I justify things 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:24.780 or my own justification system 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:26.819 it 00:03:26.819 --> 00:03:31.200 seems very rooted in my egocentric 00:03:31.200 --> 00:03:33.420 psyche schema 00:03:33.420 --> 00:03:35.900 landscape 00:03:35.900 --> 00:03:39.319 so I'm just 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:42.260 wondering how that 00:03:42.260 --> 00:03:46.700 relates to the animal bodies 00:03:46.700 --> 00:03:48.840 sensory motor 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:51.540 processes 00:03:51.540 --> 00:03:53.580 if that makes sense 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:55.319 yeah it makes sense it's a poorly 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.200 constructed sentence uh 00:03:58.200 --> 00:04:01.080 because it it okay it's a poorly 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:04.200 constructed sentence and and it's 00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:05.940 simpler than you're trying to make it 00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:08.159 okay so 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.319 um but all the parts are there the way 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:14.519 you described it so there's two types of 00:04:14.519 --> 00:04:17.220 um ways we use the word justification 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:19.919 and one is like when I'm trying to 00:04:19.919 --> 00:04:23.160 justify or rationalize my behavior 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:25.800 and certainly that's a subset of 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:29.340 justification but 00:04:29.340 --> 00:04:31.979 um a lot we're trying to use the 00:04:31.979 --> 00:04:34.440 justification system 00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:37.620 as Greg Enriquez uses it and that is 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:38.520 like 00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:40.560 well Obama's 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.720 thing is kind of like trying to 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:48.320 rationalize it but if you if you 00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:52.500 had a child in your car that was dying 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:55.919 or really injured and you and you were 00:04:55.919 --> 00:04:58.560 going faster than the speed limit and a 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.900 cop pulled you over you would use a 00:05:00.900 --> 00:05:04.520 shared justification system 00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:08.699 the per the cop would understand how you 00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:11.940 were justifying something right 00:05:11.940 --> 00:05:14.580 um so marriage is a shared justification 00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:17.940 system it has certain economic contracts 00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:20.040 and certain protections under this state 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.800 and all these things so they're not 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.979 necessarily bad okay they're not 00:05:25.979 --> 00:05:30.020 necessarily serving the ego and in fact 00:05:30.020 --> 00:05:33.419 the term as Greg uses it is much more 00:05:33.419 --> 00:05:35.940 like it's much broader more broadly 00:05:35.940 --> 00:05:39.360 Collective because 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.240 you're trying to 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.180 like if you're saying I'm speeding 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:48.919 because like 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:53.039 who talks to me told me to speak that is 00:05:53.039 --> 00:05:55.979 not necessarily a justification system 00:05:55.979 --> 00:05:58.440 right because it's it's not collectively 00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:02.900 held so now the fact that we can have 00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:06.600 shared justification systems is that we 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.120 have shared simulations of reality right 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.699 so when you tell the cop I'm speeding 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:15.180 because my child is there's a whole 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.479 bunch of things 00:06:17.479 --> 00:06:21.000 that simultaneously line up in your mind 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.080 in the in the cop's mind and their 00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:27.419 mental constructs really right 00:06:27.419 --> 00:06:30.960 and you can understand them 00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:33.780 and so they don't seem like simulations 00:06:33.780 --> 00:06:36.660 when they're that uh strongly shared but 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:38.400 if you have different justification 00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:39.900 systems 00:06:39.900 --> 00:06:43.440 then the other person seems like just a 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:45.720 construct and yours seems more real so 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.539 that's what a justification system is 00:06:48.539 --> 00:06:51.240 and 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:53.360 um 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:54.720 um 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.840 and the fact that we can have them come 00:06:57.840 --> 00:06:59.039 to the fact that we can share 00:06:59.039 --> 00:07:00.960 simulations you know it's interesting 00:07:00.960 --> 00:07:02.880 questions what whether animals share 00:07:02.880 --> 00:07:04.979 simulations or not 00:07:04.979 --> 00:07:07.680 uh that's that's that we didn't really 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:09.240 talk about that but that's does that 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.360 does that help like it doesn't really it 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:13.860 doesn't only mean when I'm trying to 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:15.960 justify myself because I'm trying to 00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:18.600 rationalize my behavior it's appealing 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:20.639 to the correct justification system 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:22.979 because it's a shared construct or 00:07:22.979 --> 00:07:25.740 shared simulation or shared social 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:29.520 imaginary you might say imaginary is we 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:32.639 just use that term simulation 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:33.180 um 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:35.099 and 00:07:35.099 --> 00:07:39.300 yeah so is is there any other is there a 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:41.039 follow-up to that or does that make 00:07:41.039 --> 00:07:44.220 sense well that definitely helps I mean 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:49.259 I think I've been watching 00:07:49.440 --> 00:07:52.919 it's not justification systems I've been 00:07:52.919 --> 00:07:55.979 watching narratives 00:07:55.979 --> 00:07:58.400 that are 00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:01.979 anti-helpful and narratives of 00:08:01.979 --> 00:08:04.560 Separation that are just sort of 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.080 Habitual 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:08.280 um 00:08:08.280 --> 00:08:10.020 and I think it goes back to something 00:08:10.020 --> 00:08:12.300 Phoebe was talking about in terms of 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:15.599 intimacy that 00:08:15.599 --> 00:08:17.639 um 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.400 I can see that if it's a justification 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:23.160 system it's larger than 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.139 my personal 00:08:25.139 --> 00:08:29.639 being and it's a way that it's more like 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.760 propositional or it's more 00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:34.500 um 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:36.360 a way of actually 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.180 maybe being more intimate 00:08:39.180 --> 00:08:41.039 um yeah and they and they get very 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.200 institutionalized actually I'll actually 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.500 use a an example so I was at my mom's 00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:48.899 all day yesterday most of the day today 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:51.180 and my sister's like a really great 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:53.760 nurse okay and so my mom's really old 00:08:53.760 --> 00:08:56.040 and she's my mom had a hard day 00:08:56.040 --> 00:08:58.320 yesterday so my sister's like call the 00:08:58.320 --> 00:08:59.940 emergency department you have to call 00:08:59.940 --> 00:09:01.800 you have to call an ambulance to get to 00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:03.420 the emergency department in order to get 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:04.980 her to rehab 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:07.620 so she's like appealing to like what is 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:09.060 the best thing to do and she's 00:09:09.060 --> 00:09:11.279 justifying it by this thing she's done 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.980 for hundreds of terminally ill patients 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:15.660 she works in the Cancer Ward with 00:09:15.660 --> 00:09:19.080 elderlies and stuff and I said 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:20.720 I mean actually 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:23.339 because my mom been through this like 00:09:23.339 --> 00:09:25.500 last year and we didn't want to wait 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:27.480 that long it wasn't a bad idea but I'm 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.779 like look I just don't have the time to 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:32.580 uh go through all that it was already 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:35.880 like five o'clock at night so I said you 00:09:35.880 --> 00:09:37.740 know I gotta shuttle to come early in 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:40.040 the morning 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:43.500 and so I come early in the morning and 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.740 she's like the kitchen table because she 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:48.420 fell 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:50.279 and the reason why I'm laughing is 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.279 because I walk in and I could tell she 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.800 was actually in better shape 00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:57.959 the fact that she'd Fallen then she was 00:09:57.959 --> 00:10:00.120 yesterday because yesterday she spent 26 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.580 hours on the couch and that's why her 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:04.380 back hurt and she couldn't get up and 00:10:04.380 --> 00:10:07.080 she was cognitively failing so I'm like 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.300 what are you doing under there 00:10:09.300 --> 00:10:12.779 then she's like I fell I'm like how long 00:10:12.779 --> 00:10:14.820 you been there she's like 20 25 minutes 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:16.800 I'm like does your back feel better and 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:18.899 she's like yeah because instead of 00:10:18.899 --> 00:10:21.720 laying on the couch for 26 minutes she 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:24.480 was letting the floor waiting for me 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:25.500 right 00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:28.920 so you see I'm not appealing to any 00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:31.740 justification system of why I'm doing 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:35.040 what I'm doing uh she had a pretty good 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.600 day 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:38.760 um but I'm not faulting my sister 00:10:38.760 --> 00:10:41.279 because you know there's institutions 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.680 and at a certain point I mean it's great 00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:45.779 because when she got really bad last 00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:47.640 year my sister gets on the phone she 00:10:47.640 --> 00:10:50.220 gets all her favors called in you get 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:54.079 into all the right places you know so 00:10:54.079 --> 00:10:59.899 so that's like the difference between 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.760 something and something the difference 00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:04.920 between something and something now I 00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:06.839 mean I wouldn't been laughing at my mom 00:11:06.839 --> 00:11:09.120 for being on the floor but I'm telling 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.480 you she was she just looked so much or 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.860 more alive 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.200 and when I tried to get her up she had a 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.000 lot of strength to help then she did 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:19.980 yesterday when she was sitting on the 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:22.680 couch for 26 hours it almost killed her 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:23.519 so 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.640 so like like 00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:29.880 my sister sees it through the lens uh oh 00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:31.800 and this is gonna happen and this is 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:34.560 gonna happen and it happens but I see it 00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:36.060 through the lens of yeah that happened 00:11:36.060 --> 00:11:37.140 but 00:11:37.140 --> 00:11:40.800 I don't know like whatever I'll go there 00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:43.560 tomorrow and see and she did send me a 00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:45.360 note today she thought I did the right 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.920 thing you know so so 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.300 a lot of the reason why people get on 00:11:54.300 --> 00:11:57.120 the phone and send their family member 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.100 to a nursing home is because they want 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:01.399 to justify 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.680 their their response 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:08.519 I can't just I have no justification for 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:10.680 why 00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:13.940 I let my mom 00:12:13.940 --> 00:12:16.940 to stay at home tonight even those shoes 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.800 no do you know what I'm saying so like 00:12:19.800 --> 00:12:23.820 like so so in a way it's good that we 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:25.920 have justification systems it's Solid 00:12:25.920 --> 00:12:28.200 Ground to stand on 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.600 um but to be Beyond justification 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.820 systems there's a little bit of kind of 00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:35.160 it's extremely unconventional it's it's 00:12:35.160 --> 00:12:37.920 experimental ground right so because 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:40.980 when you experiment that way 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:42.420 uh 00:12:42.420 --> 00:12:44.760 let's say I came in the morning I 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:46.860 actually was driving in I'm like what if 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.860 she's dead like then you can't justify 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:51.480 yourself because you had you didn't 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.300 follow protocol you didn't have any idea 00:12:54.300 --> 00:12:56.880 what you were doing 00:12:56.880 --> 00:12:58.980 um and so it is a collective thing you 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:00.839 see how it's really a collective thing 00:13:00.839 --> 00:13:03.120 it helps you 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.560 um it gets you off the hook uh for your 00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:11.399 guess work otherwise in reality we're 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.680 doing guesswork you know and it's kind 00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:19.200 of an interesting person who wants to do 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.740 guesswork 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:27.019 is that more helpful 00:13:27.839 --> 00:13:30.839 Bonnie 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:34.880 yeah so that's how it works 00:13:34.880 --> 00:13:37.680 thank you 00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:39.839 it seems to me that what you're talking 00:13:39.839 --> 00:13:45.480 about is lying on a shared map or a 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:49.920 shared uh way of contextualizing what I 00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:53.240 do so that I don't have to risk 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.480 trusting how life is moving through me 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:01.380 and trusting being suspending 00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:03.480 something like 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.700 she needs to go to the hospital because 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:08.220 it doesn't feel right and it's hard to 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:10.200 have a justification a shared 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:14.399 justification system for Life showing up 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.740 in the moment 00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:22.279 um in unscripted ways and uh 00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:28.019 and for participating in something and 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.120 and my being 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:34.079 uh being uh responding to and being 00:14:34.079 --> 00:14:36.480 aroused by 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.139 um something Beyond me that isn't the 00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:44.459 shared consensual agreement field 00:14:44.459 --> 00:14:47.820 um but that includes shared consensual 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.279 if if you're with other people who want 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.620 to play that way 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:54.800 um 00:14:55.079 --> 00:14:56.940 but it feels like 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.519 a cop out for 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.519 um 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:04.699 trusting 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:10.019 you know the life comes to meet us that 00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:12.300 life is alive and that there's and and 00:15:12.300 --> 00:15:14.100 trusting the possibility of something 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:17.519 new in the moment even if it means 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:21.440 falling down to find it 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.820 I and I'll say I thought justification 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:29.160 systems was more like 00:15:29.160 --> 00:15:32.699 creating a a schema to make sense of the 00:15:32.699 --> 00:15:35.820 world so that for me when I read in 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:40.199 depth all of John Herron's stuff 00:15:40.199 --> 00:15:44.220 it gave me a way to chart myself in the 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:44.940 wild 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.220 to have a relationship beyond what I 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:50.279 knew before and and it gave me enough 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.860 that I could continually 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:56.279 make myself Anew in relationship to the 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.519 Wild and then after a while it felt like 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.600 I don't actually need this chart anymore 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:06.480 I'm interested in playing with 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.240 um not knowing and not making sense 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.880 because there's enough in place 00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:16.860 that I can play beyond that and not uh 00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:18.240 be lost 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.860 in the way that I might have been in the 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.380 class so that's a different 00:16:22.380 --> 00:16:24.420 way that I understood justification 00:16:24.420 --> 00:16:26.279 system probably because I didn't read as 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.339 closely as Stanford no no it's the same 00:16:29.339 --> 00:16:31.860 thing it's just that it's a it's just a 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:35.699 much more it's a smaller uh more 00:16:35.699 --> 00:16:38.579 eclectic justification system right I 00:16:38.579 --> 00:16:41.579 mean if the whole world adopted John 00:16:41.579 --> 00:16:43.560 Herron's justification system and then 00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:46.019 it became institutionalized which how 00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:48.180 that could happen I don't know then it 00:16:48.180 --> 00:16:50.399 would seem like this larger thing but 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.100 yeah it's a shared John Herron had a 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.320 small community not that's you know not 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.220 insignificant that understood experience 00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:02.240 and Justified certain 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.419 interpretations and through the his 00:17:06.419 --> 00:17:09.120 system so that that was a justification 00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:11.100 system so that's what I'm saying it's 00:17:11.100 --> 00:17:14.059 not necessarily 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:18.959 bad or good or bad 00:17:18.959 --> 00:17:21.079 um um 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.280 their their 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.020 useful until they're not useful right 00:17:28.020 --> 00:17:30.000 they work until they don't work 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.720 it seems to me that religions are 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.780 in the initially 00:17:36.780 --> 00:17:40.380 in the an expression of an attempt to 00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.100 move beyond the fixity of of living and 00:17:44.100 --> 00:17:47.039 and into mystery and how do we how do we 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.320 have an ongoing relationship with 00:17:49.320 --> 00:17:51.500 mystery and then those things become 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:55.919 codified and justified in a way that uh 00:17:55.919 --> 00:17:58.500 are are power based or whatever and then 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.440 and then and then the original 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.400 disappears for the most part 00:18:04.679 --> 00:18:06.840 yeah and the problem with justification 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:09.660 systems is they compete right so if I'm 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:12.120 against abortion because of a religious 00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:15.299 claim and you're someone who worked for 00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:17.880 women's rights forever and you just keep 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.980 telling me but it's legal it's legal or 00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:22.200 it's not legal or whatever but when it 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.240 was legal then you have just two 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.059 competing justification systems and 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:28.760 people are just 00:18:28.760 --> 00:18:31.320 appealing to the justification system 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:33.840 many people aren't really actually 00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:35.700 touching 00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:39.419 base with with with their own feelings 00:18:39.419 --> 00:18:43.140 or an intimate exploration 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:44.880 um so 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.000 um 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.670 [Music] 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.799 justification is uh it's a good example 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.820 for why I come here in this sense 00:18:59.820 --> 00:19:02.160 I long ago 20 years or more gave up 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.500 trying to figure out who I am but who 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.200 I'm not fascinates me you know there's 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.940 oh no I'm not that and I'm not that I'm 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:10.860 not that oh there's that no not that 00:19:10.860 --> 00:19:11.700 either 00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:14.160 and sometimes you know I have an 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.960 experience and the words associated with 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.000 arise I go oh those things are connected 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.100 in this case 00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:22.679 going through justification pointed out 00:19:22.679 --> 00:19:25.740 the Contours of it now I know how it 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:28.980 feels not what it is but it has a it has 00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:31.320 a general feeling in my body now there 00:19:31.320 --> 00:19:32.940 may be different kinds of justifications 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.580 that I but I know how my normal 00:19:35.580 --> 00:19:38.280 justification pattern feels so anytime I 00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:40.440 feel like oh they're expressing that way 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.240 today and that way and there's that way 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.160 and there's that way so if for me it's 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.280 like once I know the feeling I can start 00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:49.260 to see all the forms that it shows up in 00:19:49.260 --> 00:19:51.900 and that is extremely valuable and 00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:53.580 that's why I come here I don't have to 00:19:53.580 --> 00:19:55.559 remember a lot of stuff I just got to 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.360 get a sense of what it feels like in my 00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:59.700 body and then recognize it every time I 00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:01.080 feel that 00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:03.480 yeah that's why it's included because it 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.400 has a biomarker 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.700 right it has a buyer motor oh now I'm in 00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:10.380 this state or I'm in this whatever 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:14.760 feeling oh this is what is is 00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:17.880 the thing you're doing now whatever yeah 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.780 excellent 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:41.580 it almost feels like it has like a 00:20:41.580 --> 00:20:43.799 it's like oh yeah like that makes sense 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.340 like the cop pulled the woman over and 00:20:47.340 --> 00:20:49.799 then talking like oh yeah okay like I 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:51.600 don't know just kind of 00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:55.760 to me it feels almost like a little 00:20:56.100 --> 00:20:59.039 I don't know just like people I don't 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.679 know like Common Sense maybe I don't 00:21:01.679 --> 00:21:05.360 know it's kind of like a warm feeling 00:21:09.179 --> 00:21:11.340 yeah I mean if there wasn't any just 00:21:11.340 --> 00:21:14.100 share justification then can you imagine 00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:16.200 how long that conversation would have to 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.000 be then you have to say but you know all 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.880 the life of my job if the other person 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:24.059 only had the justification system of a 00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:26.520 robot which is one of the problems with 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:29.640 robots policing things it would be like 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.220 you're speeding I gotta pull you over I 00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:34.799 gotta tow your car away 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.460 so 00:21:37.679 --> 00:21:40.280 when you can appeal to a different 00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:45.200 justification system then you have 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.559 more more uh understanding but if a cop 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.760 is just like a robot 00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.559 that's programmed just to do one thing 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.900 catch feeders 00:21:57.900 --> 00:21:59.340 um then 00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:01.679 sliding across different justification 00:22:01.679 --> 00:22:03.480 systems you're not going to really find 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.200 any common common understanding there 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.659 right is it like 00:22:09.659 --> 00:22:11.340 you don't have to go through all the 00:22:11.340 --> 00:22:13.980 little like points to make your case 00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:19.380 like a lawsuit yeah yeah you just say my 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:21.840 child is bleeding to death like okay 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.900 that's a moral justification 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:25.740 um 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:29.059 and he and and a human being 00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:32.340 mostly slips right into that 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:34.740 slips through that to one from one 00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:37.700 system to an X 00:22:38.280 --> 00:22:40.919 and so that's the connection to the 00:22:40.919 --> 00:22:44.039 body's sensory motor system 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.320 like my child is bleeding to death 00:22:48.780 --> 00:22:51.000 we respond 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.980 with the body 00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:55.860 to a statement like that 00:22:55.860 --> 00:22:59.820 yeah and the justification system is a 00:22:59.820 --> 00:23:01.500 virtual 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.799 place we go to satisfy certain arousal 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.659 States 00:23:06.659 --> 00:23:09.000 right so we have an arousal State we 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.960 don't go to 00:23:12.179 --> 00:23:14.520 I mean you could 00:23:14.520 --> 00:23:18.000 take your child out and show the cough 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.360 but you don't go to external perception 00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:26.159 you jump to a very complex virtual 00:23:26.159 --> 00:23:28.260 construction which is which is not just 00:23:28.260 --> 00:23:31.080 virtual perception but mental models and 00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:37.400 blah blah blah so uh in in 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:42.360 so part of that Loop a lot of things can 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:44.159 get satisfied by the justification 00:23:44.159 --> 00:23:47.039 system the problem is like people are 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.380 there's so many competing justification 00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:51.960 systems now and there's the internet 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:56.700 that that is breaking down you know like 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:58.700 like 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:01.500 what if 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.400 what if 00:24:04.679 --> 00:24:07.440 what can replace the justification 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.740 system at at scale the problem the thing 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:12.299 that's good about the justification 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:15.179 system is that it exists at scale right 00:24:15.179 --> 00:24:17.580 whether it's John Herron's group or the 00:24:17.580 --> 00:24:20.039 whole country or whatever 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.860 its power is that it can 00:24:22.860 --> 00:24:25.860 exist at scale 00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:27.539 um 00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:30.679 yeah so 00:24:33.360 --> 00:24:36.539 but as far as I know animals don't 00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:38.760 justify 00:24:38.760 --> 00:24:41.720 um I mean certainly not linguistically 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.299 narratively conceptually 00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:49.520 um because we can 00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:52.440 you know we're cross modal synesthetes 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.720 we probably could find something in the 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.460 animal kingdom that we say oh that's 00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:59.460 kind of like a justification but I don't 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:02.220 that's the only module where it really 00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:05.360 sticks out as something that humans do 00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:07.799 collectively that 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.659 um 00:25:09.659 --> 00:25:12.780 doesn't seem to happen 00:25:12.780 --> 00:25:14.340 um 00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:17.480 at the animal level 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:22.799 do we need justification systems like 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.900 just thinking of like Alternatives like 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.980 if I'm like thinking about this properly 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:33.120 like just doing going via like your AFX 00:25:33.120 --> 00:25:34.200 and 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.340 what you're feeling like 00:25:37.860 --> 00:25:40.200 I mean I suppose 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:42.240 you could create in a culture like that 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.820 is the justification system like oh I'm 00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:49.500 just going by my effects and feelings 00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:51.620 um 00:25:51.659 --> 00:25:54.440 yeah 00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:57.960 yeah it gets crazy so let's look at this 00:25:57.960 --> 00:25:59.279 is surprising that we're talking about 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.140 this but look at let's look at the Trump 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:03.240 indictment does everybody know about the 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.640 Trump indictment 00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:09.900 again he's indicted for conspiracy and 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:13.080 what is his defense 00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:15.600 it's a First Amendment defense 00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:19.200 because there's many precedents that uh 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.840 you can't be 00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:24.539 imprisoned or convicted for lying 00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:28.440 right so his justification is I lied 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:30.900 okay well over 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.820 the first line is is uh protected under 00:26:35.820 --> 00:26:38.159 the First Amendment right 00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:41.039 now you get into Gobbledy book and The 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.140 Gobbledy book is well 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:46.200 most you have to use language to commit 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.080 fraud you have to use language to commit 00:26:49.080 --> 00:26:50.640 conspiracy 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.240 so it's not I mean this is like the 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.720 postmodern nightmare being played out on 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.659 the federal scene at the highest level 00:27:00.659 --> 00:27:04.320 of indictment ever like 00:27:04.320 --> 00:27:06.720 um it's you know it actually it even 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.320 trumps the Clinton defends what the word 00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:14.940 is is right so like like once you start 00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:16.620 getting into 00:27:16.620 --> 00:27:18.140 foreign 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:21.539 this realm it gets it's a very slippery 00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:25.440 it's very very slippery slope 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.700 um so 00:27:28.919 --> 00:27:32.400 you this is exactly what you see is you 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.659 have 00:27:33.659 --> 00:27:37.200 uh one party justifying it by the fact 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.980 that lying is a First Amendment right in 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:43.400 this country 00:27:43.620 --> 00:27:46.559 and the other part is saying well you're 00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.200 not indicted for lying you're indicted 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.440 for conspiracy 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:55.559 conspiracy conspiratorial actions which 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:59.000 happen to be speech Acts 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:04.799 and it's very and so the question is 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:08.400 what is exactly 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.279 let's let's pretend that the whole thing 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.440 is not politically motivated let's say 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.039 this is a real thought 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.919 a real thing happening for some people 00:28:19.919 --> 00:28:22.020 it is real but 00:28:22.020 --> 00:28:26.360 no what is exactly being decided here 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.760 you know and it's it's being decided in 00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.740 the arm of the government called The 00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:33.659 Justice right 00:28:33.659 --> 00:28:38.220 because it's all about justification so 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.220 um 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.320 it's an interesting question 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.740 um 00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:15.539 I'm curious when you say hi it's nice to 00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:16.860 be here again 00:29:16.860 --> 00:29:18.840 it's weird because I've been watching it 00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:21.600 so I feel like I have been here but I 00:29:21.600 --> 00:29:24.960 haven't that's weird it's weird 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.899 um sometimes I am I was curious because 00:29:27.899 --> 00:29:30.960 don't if somebody kills somebody but 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.059 because they have an affects train like 00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:35.399 it's like they catch their Partners 00:29:35.399 --> 00:29:37.559 having sex with somebody else 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.080 they're they're protected isn't there 00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:42.539 like the justification is a little bit 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:46.500 uh it'll allows it gives them space to 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:48.899 do that basically it's saying you can't 00:29:48.899 --> 00:29:50.820 handle that amount of energy in your 00:29:50.820 --> 00:29:52.860 body so therefore it's okay to kill 00:29:52.860 --> 00:29:55.559 somebody else like isn't something 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.799 but it's not okay but the penalty is 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.840 less than if you sit there and 00:30:00.840 --> 00:30:04.679 cold-bloodedly premeditate their murder 00:30:04.679 --> 00:30:06.899 um so Crimes of Passion are still you 00:30:06.899 --> 00:30:12.179 can go to prison for 10 12 years uh 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:15.539 and depending upon whether you rehabil 00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.820 Crimes of Passion that people are are 00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:22.399 are fairly easily rehabilitated 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.380 um but so so yes it's taken into 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:27.480 consideration 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:32.159 um but it's not it's not okay so then so 00:30:32.159 --> 00:30:33.659 then someone yeah maybe it's not okay 00:30:33.659 --> 00:30:35.640 but I was just thinking from your from 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.740 the language of the pop-up school that's 00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.380 actually what that's justifying is that 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.799 it's an agreement that it's hard to be 00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.020 with that amount of energy exactly so 00:30:46.020 --> 00:30:48.480 there's somehow there's a whole system 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.539 of just the whole penal system is it 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.640 just a Victoria system 00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:58.980 around all kinds of of distinctions 00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:02.460 in trying to standardize it to someone I 00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.100 mean there's a great quite a in some it 00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:06.720 goes back and forth but in the U.S 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.080 there's there's some degree 00:31:10.080 --> 00:31:11.899 [Music] 00:31:11.899 --> 00:31:14.700 there's some degrees of freedom for the 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.399 for the judge so she said you know she 00:31:17.399 --> 00:31:22.620 can sentence from eight to 48 years 00:31:22.620 --> 00:31:26.340 and so she can feel the context but she 00:31:26.340 --> 00:31:28.620 can't sentence less than eight or more 00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:31.620 than 48 or something like that 00:31:31.620 --> 00:31:33.059 um 00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:36.360 and then yeah so 00:31:36.360 --> 00:31:41.039 yeah so those are that is taken into a 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.260 fountain certainly mental insanity is 00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:45.179 taken into account but that's also a 00:31:45.179 --> 00:31:48.179 slippery slope you know it's serial 00:31:48.179 --> 00:31:51.419 killer is in a way a mentally insane 00:31:51.419 --> 00:31:53.520 person but they could be kind of 00:31:53.520 --> 00:31:57.000 rationally in control 00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:58.799 um so 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.580 um yeah 00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:10.919 but Crimes of Passion are a certain case 00:32:10.919 --> 00:32:14.520 it's versus premeditated right so it's 00:32:14.520 --> 00:32:17.410 manslaughter versus premeditary 00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:18.799 [Music] 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:21.720 one is more like dealing with the effect 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.640 stream of the moment and the other one 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:25.320 is more 00:32:25.320 --> 00:32:26.480 um 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:30.120 just justifying and stay in the room you 00:32:30.120 --> 00:32:33.960 know to justify you had time 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:34.799 um 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.039 less remorse like people who like just 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:39.960 lash out 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.779 they don't even know why they'll report 00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:45.419 they don't even I don't even they don't 00:32:45.419 --> 00:32:47.580 I did it I didn't eat and they they feel 00:32:47.580 --> 00:32:49.140 horrible they don't even know why they 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:51.960 did it you know there's a it's they got 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.480 overwhelmed yeah and that's the thing is 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.399 the chances of them doing it again are 00:32:56.399 --> 00:32:59.580 very are very awesome because they don't 00:32:59.580 --> 00:33:02.419 want to kill anyone 00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:04.640 um 00:33:09.179 --> 00:33:12.179 if we get like things like 00:33:12.179 --> 00:33:15.360 you know Murder and stuff from these 00:33:15.360 --> 00:33:18.360 affect streams 00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:21.840 to me then that sounds almost like these 00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:23.480 are not 00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.360 always the best things to be following 00:33:27.360 --> 00:33:28.799 sort of 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:30.840 I guess my understanding before was kind 00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:31.799 of like 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.799 you know yeah we don't get murder from 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.080 athletes 00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:39.740 okay 00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:44.100 um it is very hard to imagine someone 00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:45.960 wanting to murder someone without a 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:48.320 narrative 00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:52.500 right so dog walks in he sees his his 00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.740 the dog he's another dog 00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:57.539 I feel like get mad but he's not gonna 00:33:57.539 --> 00:33:59.880 like sit around and you know you know 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:01.860 they get a fight 00:34:01.860 --> 00:34:04.260 um but mostly what happens with people 00:34:04.260 --> 00:34:07.080 is like he's cheating on me and my 00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:10.740 identity and we promised and that is 00:34:10.740 --> 00:34:15.839 more fuel than just sexual aggression in 00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:19.440 in general that's what is involved in 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.440 crimes of passion is not yeah their 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.500 bodies are a mess but it's this this 00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:27.599 other thing 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.460 um that fuels 00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:33.359 feels the the fire really 00:34:33.359 --> 00:34:35.220 um so 00:34:35.220 --> 00:34:37.379 I would not say that affects which are 00:34:37.379 --> 00:34:39.899 part of our animal nature is responsible 00:34:39.899 --> 00:34:42.179 for murder 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:43.320 um 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:44.700 um 00:34:44.700 --> 00:34:47.399 killing yes I mean but 00:34:47.399 --> 00:34:50.580 hey you know animal skill to eat other 00:34:50.580 --> 00:34:52.500 animals and we kill a lot of animals to 00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:54.240 eat them but that's not a crime of 00:34:54.240 --> 00:34:58.260 passion that's that's something else and 00:34:58.260 --> 00:34:59.460 um so 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:02.160 if if you 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:05.580 um if you really notice most of the 00:35:05.580 --> 00:35:07.380 passion in Crimes of Passion are 00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:09.859 narratives 00:35:09.859 --> 00:35:11.960 seething 00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:15.359 you know like 00:35:15.359 --> 00:35:18.500 and to tell 00:35:18.839 --> 00:35:20.000 like 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.280 there goes 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.740 I guess my mind goes to like being able 00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:28.020 to distinguish between these narratives 00:35:28.020 --> 00:35:32.099 versus affects and like as a felt sense 00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.640 like 00:35:36.020 --> 00:35:39.599 like like I've like right now there's I 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.839 have a a friend and 00:35:42.839 --> 00:35:46.640 or something and 00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.599 is it would a difference be like 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.480 being run by sort of a narrative 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.579 feel almost like sometimes I feel like 00:35:56.579 --> 00:35:59.880 yeah I get maybe some Rage or hate or 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:01.320 something but then 00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.140 it doesn't it feels almost like it 00:36:04.140 --> 00:36:06.780 doesn't feel like 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.800 it almost feels like feeble or like 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.560 something off with it like it doesn't 00:36:13.560 --> 00:36:16.320 feel quite genuine like all this there's 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.780 something else like would that be a 00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:21.060 distinction whereas if it was an affect 00:36:21.060 --> 00:36:23.099 it would be more like oh 00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:26.040 like that's the feeling or that's what 00:36:26.040 --> 00:36:28.320 it is more solid 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.960 so if we go back to the definition of 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.400 anger 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.560 anger 00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:35.579 um 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:38.940 is there's a boundary that is being 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:42.180 crossed so you might be angry that 00:36:42.180 --> 00:36:45.180 your friend is dating the woman you want 00:36:45.180 --> 00:36:47.280 to date because you put a boundary 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.220 around her like you think there's you've 00:36:50.220 --> 00:36:52.680 got a her in a container 00:36:52.680 --> 00:36:54.720 and that boundary has been crossed and 00:36:54.720 --> 00:36:58.020 the question is is that boundary 00:36:58.020 --> 00:37:01.079 like what is that boundary do you want 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:02.579 to try to 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:06.480 preserve that boundary but it's not them 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.460 that you're angry at it's the question 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.740 is whether or not what does that 00:37:10.740 --> 00:37:14.579 boundary mean to you so if I'm a mom I 00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:18.119 put a boundary around my child like big 00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:19.800 time 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.560 Big Time boundary you're not gonna 00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:24.240 with my child 00:37:24.240 --> 00:37:28.320 so when I get angry I say oh I know what 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.800 that is they're they're pushing on that 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:34.020 boundary good for me I want that 00:37:34.020 --> 00:37:36.240 boundary so the question is is the 00:37:36.240 --> 00:37:38.280 boundary worth what's going on in your 00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:39.119 life 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.560 and can you take responsibility for that 00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:49.920 um and why why are you you know and if 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.320 you're putting a boundary around a grown 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.720 individual that's something else to 00:37:54.720 --> 00:37:57.060 think about why can I put a boundary 00:37:57.060 --> 00:37:58.920 around 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.020 an adult human 00:38:01.020 --> 00:38:04.260 well that's a maybe a little weird you 00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:06.119 know what I'm saying and even when you 00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.440 have a child at some point the boundary 00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.119 you have to let it go you know you have 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:13.560 to let it 00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:16.380 the boundary you put around it 00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:19.260 at first your actual physical body as a 00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:22.619 mother is the boundary around your child 00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:26.579 and then that becomes 00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:30.300 and then as your child grows it's like 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:32.220 where's this boundary that I'm 00:38:32.220 --> 00:38:34.920 constantly upholding like is this useful 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:36.960 is this correct is it in the right 00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.300 relationship too 00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:41.760 this person 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.760 um yeah so putting a boundary around 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.040 another adult human being that's kind of 00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:48.599 interesting like 00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:50.880 what's going on but what's going on with 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.119 that 00:38:53.339 --> 00:38:56.599 it was more like 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.859 like at work 00:39:01.859 --> 00:39:03.300 like I know 00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:06.780 you know we have like no vaping or 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:07.820 whatever 00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:11.400 work and then I know one person was like 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:12.900 oh I'm just gonna go to the washroom and 00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:14.460 bait and to me when I heard that I was 00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.240 like 00:39:15.240 --> 00:39:17.820 oh that feels like 00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.339 well hey like what are we doing like hey 00:39:20.339 --> 00:39:24.359 like this is what you know we agreed on 00:39:24.359 --> 00:39:26.520 or something it's like I don't know it 00:39:26.520 --> 00:39:27.780 just felt 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:30.119 right so that was a boundary this person 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.000 was crossing yeah 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:35.070 okay 00:39:35.070 --> 00:39:38.169 [Music] 00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:54.780 anger is always related to some boundary 00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:56.760 that's being maintained or not 00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.400 maintained or violated or 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.280 in question or 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:04.200 yeah and I didn't know how to 00:40:04.200 --> 00:40:05.940 because I thought about it afterwards 00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:07.859 and I was like 00:40:07.859 --> 00:40:10.079 I didn't know how to like I felt like I 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:11.820 had to have a reason or give reasons and 00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:15.359 I couldn't I don't know why I felt like 00:40:15.359 --> 00:40:18.119 I couldn't get at them but yeah yeah so 00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.099 like somebody can come in with the 00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:22.260 person the whole justification system 00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.660 but you're talking about something much 00:40:24.660 --> 00:40:25.920 more 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:30.900 simple like the fact that somehow you 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:33.540 bought into this boundary or you're part 00:40:33.540 --> 00:40:36.780 of this boundary it and and 00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:39.420 the whole point is to you know whether 00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:43.220 or not it's useful to you that's all 00:40:43.220 --> 00:40:46.800 and and to to be uh you know if it's 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.660 useful to you then 00:40:48.660 --> 00:40:50.820 you're not so confused when you and 00:40:50.820 --> 00:40:52.619 you're not so 00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:54.599 uh 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.060 it doesn't cost you a lot to just smack 00:40:57.060 --> 00:40:59.520 the guy in the face and say you 00:40:59.520 --> 00:41:01.079 you're not vaping here 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:02.520 yeah 00:41:02.520 --> 00:41:06.060 it's just because you're satisfied with 00:41:06.060 --> 00:41:08.280 the fact that you're 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:09.060 um 00:41:09.060 --> 00:41:11.339 you're upholding that boundary 00:41:11.339 --> 00:41:13.700 yeah 00:41:14.220 --> 00:41:16.440 yeah like when I when I question it and 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.180 get try to get to the reasons that 00:41:18.180 --> 00:41:21.720 that's where I feel like oh like it 00:41:21.720 --> 00:41:24.000 doesn't feel so 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.099 like like you know we don't do that here 00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:27.540 it feels more like oh I'm not sure 00:41:27.540 --> 00:41:30.560 anymore yeah 00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:36.900 I just want to know that in my 00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:39.420 experience not always but seems like 00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:41.160 often enough 00:41:41.160 --> 00:41:45.060 anger is a volume and velocity of 00:41:45.060 --> 00:41:48.480 sadness or grief that is arising and 00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.700 somehow it transitions into anger it 00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:53.099 seems like the same energy that's moving 00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:55.500 really fast and there's a whole lot of 00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:56.220 it 00:41:56.220 --> 00:41:59.280 and then at the core of it 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.040 is grief that it appears to be often the 00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:04.560 case as I've observed it over time maybe 00:42:04.560 --> 00:42:07.440 not always yeah if this may not be 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.960 correct but in my experience this is 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:11.940 very common 00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:13.079 on men 00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.980 because men aren't allowed to be in 00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:21.300 grief so the energy quickly uh 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:24.540 shape shifts into anger 00:42:24.540 --> 00:42:27.359 the boundaries that that is there is 00:42:27.359 --> 00:42:30.180 you're not allowed to be in grief 00:42:30.180 --> 00:42:33.660 so so you're angry at the boundary that 00:42:33.660 --> 00:42:36.119 Society puts on you the opposite happens 00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:39.900 with with women when anger is the 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:43.380 authentic uh emotion they go into grief 00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:45.900 and sadness because socially they're not 00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:48.480 allowed to be angry so this is quite 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.180 common and it goes very fast like you 00:42:51.180 --> 00:42:53.940 said it goes very fast 00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.200 um 00:42:55.200 --> 00:42:57.240 um this may not be the case for you but 00:42:57.240 --> 00:43:00.180 I but I've seen this many times 00:43:00.180 --> 00:43:02.400 um and 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.460 um 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.099 so what is what is if you're saying the 00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:10.859 authentic emotion is grief 00:43:10.859 --> 00:43:13.800 and uh 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:15.960 the anger might be like I'm not allowed 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.060 to grieve there's a social boundary 00:43:18.060 --> 00:43:19.800 there for me 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.500 somebody put a barrier up there between 00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.440 me and that 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.420 um and for women is is quite often the 00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:29.099 opposite 00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:31.560 uh it's why women get passive aggressive 00:43:31.560 --> 00:43:33.960 because they quickly get angry that's 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.140 authentic and then they go into weepy 00:43:37.140 --> 00:43:39.240 Moshi 00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:41.520 things that it gets very confusing like 00:43:41.520 --> 00:43:43.500 I thought you were angry and now you're 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:46.200 like devastated I don't know what to do 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:48.480 with that 00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:51.300 well part of it for me is and I I've 00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:52.920 noticed this in a couple of instances 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.140 but there was a moment of trauma when I 00:43:55.140 --> 00:43:56.160 was young 00:43:56.160 --> 00:44:00.000 and that I made a rule about it and when 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.099 the rule is violated anywhere in my 00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:05.040 environment it's it's almost like a 00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:06.720 protective measure to keep from 00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:08.880 re-experiencing the trauma which is a 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:10.380 kind of grief 00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:13.319 and that's part of why I have those two 00:44:13.319 --> 00:44:16.319 Associated yeah because the rule is a 00:44:16.319 --> 00:44:19.760 boundary right yeah 00:44:25.940 --> 00:44:28.800 no you go ahead 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.220 no yeah okay uh I was just circulating 00:44:32.220 --> 00:44:35.760 on the uh justification system 00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.540 and how 00:44:39.540 --> 00:44:43.800 how that then hinders us from you know 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:47.280 getting the FX stream and truly 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:48.720 embodying 00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:50.579 the 00:44:50.579 --> 00:44:51.300 um 00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:53.520 the thing that we are then meant to 00:44:53.520 --> 00:44:55.800 strive for I guess 00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.560 the and I I know yeah I was just 00:44:58.560 --> 00:45:03.079 wondering if the justification system 00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:06.060 inherently uh you know has the potential 00:45:06.060 --> 00:45:09.500 to inherently disembody those 00:45:09.500 --> 00:45:14.220 subscribing to the justification system 00:45:14.220 --> 00:45:16.140 um which I thought was kind of 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:20.700 interesting and my mind went to you know 00:45:20.700 --> 00:45:22.920 during covet you know you had to have 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.099 your vaccination or because you know and 00:45:26.099 --> 00:45:27.960 there were all these reasons and all of 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.180 a sudden it wasn't a meaningful debate 00:45:30.180 --> 00:45:32.579 anymore it was just that you know you 00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:34.200 had to you had to support the 00:45:34.200 --> 00:45:37.319 justification system 00:45:37.319 --> 00:45:39.180 um and I you know when Matt mentioned 00:45:39.180 --> 00:45:41.099 about The Vaping I thought you know if 00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:43.680 you if there is a rule about there's no 00:45:43.680 --> 00:45:46.200 vaping and you just accept that sweet 00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:48.240 and then when you get confronted with 00:45:48.240 --> 00:45:50.040 somebody going against a justification 00:45:50.040 --> 00:45:52.280 system you might not be 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.500 empowered to or embodied to really 00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:57.900 properly respond in that moment and only 00:45:57.900 --> 00:45:59.579 kind of get 00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:02.160 um you know confronted with hey 00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:04.260 something is arousing for me that I that 00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:06.480 I'm I'm now I'm jumping to this 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:07.920 conclusion 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.140 rather than embodying it or having 00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:12.240 embodied it and knowing that the 00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:15.180 conclusion is that uh and that creates 00:46:15.180 --> 00:46:17.339 some kind of sub-optimal thing 00:46:17.339 --> 00:46:20.640 sorry a bit wordy but um yeah I did 00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:22.440 think it was quite interesting even 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.500 though maybe only for myself no no 00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:27.900 that's how that's that's exactly the 00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:31.260 richness in the question like we swim in 00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:34.140 justification systems really as a 00:46:34.140 --> 00:46:36.180 collective and one of the questions is 00:46:36.180 --> 00:46:38.460 uh 00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:40.680 so the justification system is helpful 00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:41.760 because 00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.880 it's it's it's scaled and it's it's 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.819 shared easily and it's scaled right 00:46:47.819 --> 00:46:51.060 um so the question is well well what 00:46:51.060 --> 00:46:53.520 other aspect of the human condition is 00:46:53.520 --> 00:46:56.700 shared easily and and can scale 00:46:56.700 --> 00:46:57.300 um 00:46:57.300 --> 00:46:59.460 maybe scaling is a problem that's always 00:46:59.460 --> 00:47:02.520 a question but but 00:47:02.520 --> 00:47:04.260 um 00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:08.280 people often pivot you know when the 00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:10.440 situation is just too confusing 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:12.359 what else what other recourses an 00:47:12.359 --> 00:47:15.900 individual have you just you just 00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:17.460 um 00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:19.800 rely on the justification system and 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:21.839 also the you know the other thing is 00:47:21.839 --> 00:47:24.180 like I was at the bank today 00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:27.359 and my bank just got a big upgrade 00:47:27.359 --> 00:47:29.700 because they emerge with someone else so 00:47:29.700 --> 00:47:32.960 now like there's like three party 00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:38.640 authentication and you have to you know 00:47:38.640 --> 00:47:40.800 it's all very gotten much more high tech 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:42.420 and 00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:44.579 I just needed I went to the bank because 00:47:44.579 --> 00:47:45.960 I needed something 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:48.300 um we call it uh notarized you know 00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:49.859 where you sign something some of the 00:47:49.859 --> 00:47:52.500 witnesses you sign and they put the seal 00:47:52.500 --> 00:47:54.720 but there was like four people ahead of 00:47:54.720 --> 00:47:57.240 me and it took so long because they were 00:47:57.240 --> 00:47:58.220 all 00:47:58.220 --> 00:48:02.280 60 to 70 years and older 00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:04.260 they didn't have cell phones they were 00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:06.660 locked up and there was like 00:48:06.660 --> 00:48:09.119 and the guy was like you have to go home 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:10.980 and 00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:14.640 answer your phone and get the code 00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:18.000 you know his wife he can't hear his wife 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.560 wouldn't understand what was doing 00:48:19.560 --> 00:48:21.359 doesn't have kids that can help them 00:48:21.359 --> 00:48:24.780 like he just get locked out the the 00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:27.480 technological justification system just 00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:29.119 locks out 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.579 you know whole generations of people and 00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:35.460 it's generational but also 00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:37.680 um economic right because if you're you 00:48:37.680 --> 00:48:39.480 could be a young person growing up in a 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:42.359 rural or inner city and not have any 00:48:42.359 --> 00:48:46.140 idea what all the subscription is 00:48:46.140 --> 00:48:50.040 um and the guy the young guy who was the 00:48:50.040 --> 00:48:51.480 the 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.660 uh you know the manager the bank manager 00:48:54.660 --> 00:48:56.700 he was really patient with the guy and 00:48:56.700 --> 00:48:59.280 he kept on saying over and over and over 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:03.359 what to do and the guy the 00:49:03.359 --> 00:49:07.500 it was just there was no way that 00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:11.400 that person was understanding what had 00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:14.940 just happened in reality uh 00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:19.640 and yeah it was very 00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.780 you see this everywhere it's really kind 00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:26.280 of sad 00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.079 um because the justification systems 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.000 become extremely abstract and 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.640 sophisticated and increasingly turned 00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:38.040 over to computational machines right so 00:49:38.040 --> 00:49:39.540 um that's why I had to get a smartphone 00:49:39.540 --> 00:49:41.220 because everything I was trying to do 00:49:41.220 --> 00:49:44.819 online I needed to scan barcodes and 00:49:44.819 --> 00:49:48.140 the workaround for that is is impossible 00:49:48.140 --> 00:49:51.180 and so that's a kind of justification 00:49:51.180 --> 00:49:54.780 system now that's not conceptual based 00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:56.599 it's it's 00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:59.880 technological Security based 00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:03.859 um it's extremely sophisticated 00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:13.980 so so they're shared justification 00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:15.720 systems and there's also internal 00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:18.480 justification systems right and it's the 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.060 internal justification system 00:50:21.060 --> 00:50:25.200 also what makes us jump from you know at 00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:27.540 an early stage in the arousal phase to 00:50:27.540 --> 00:50:30.119 the uh you know the anticipated end 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:32.040 state is and then the justification 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:34.800 system makes us jump there is that kind 00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:38.339 of how it works exactly yeah in in our 00:50:38.339 --> 00:50:42.480 society and what about in our person 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.420 yeah but it's the kinds of people we are 00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:47.579 today it's not like some 00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:51.359 natural law of organism or even of 00:50:51.359 --> 00:50:52.800 humans 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:55.680 um it's just it's enculturated in 00:50:55.680 --> 00:50:57.420 modernity really 00:50:57.420 --> 00:51:00.960 so if we were to go back to Nature 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.380 um and be truly in touch with you know 00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:06.780 uh and and everything we do is always 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:08.400 embodied 00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:10.980 no justification system would exist 00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:13.619 internally 00:51:13.619 --> 00:51:16.020 yeah I mean there's no real if you're so 00:51:16.020 --> 00:51:18.420 low yeah but there's no real going back 00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:23.819 it's the question is what other kinds of 00:51:23.819 --> 00:51:24.780 um 00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.619 things can be shared 00:51:27.619 --> 00:51:30.559 collectively that function 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.900 sort of to take care of the benefits of 00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:35.280 that 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.800 um so so we read during the 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.700 justification module we read Obama's 00:51:40.700 --> 00:51:43.280 Nobel Prize expect 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.460 acceptance speech which is the most 00:51:46.460 --> 00:51:48.960 bombastic piece of justification's 00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:51.960 beautiful speech he goes from justifying 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.839 the just War to just saying we have to 00:51:54.839 --> 00:51:56.579 justify peace 00:51:56.579 --> 00:52:00.119 right like it's just like not from Saint 00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:05.579 Thomas Aquinas like and then so it's and 00:52:05.579 --> 00:52:07.760 then we read bio 00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:11.040 kamalafes uh black lives matter but to 00:52:11.040 --> 00:52:13.800 whom and he tells stories and he does 00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:16.740 this and he does that and his metaphors 00:52:16.740 --> 00:52:20.040 and he's in the art of persuasion but 00:52:20.040 --> 00:52:23.160 he's not using justification in the way 00:52:23.160 --> 00:52:25.920 we know it we we just noticed that 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.079 there's something different going on we 00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.319 couldn't really name it and so in that 00:52:31.319 --> 00:52:33.900 module we have to say well as humans we 00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:37.140 are in the art of persuasion 00:52:37.140 --> 00:52:40.740 um but it seems like justification 00:52:40.740 --> 00:52:43.920 systems are are like many other things 00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:47.400 breaking down and the main the main 00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:49.980 thrust to replacing them is 00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:53.819 technological uh Ai and you have to 00:52:53.819 --> 00:52:55.200 justify things 00:52:55.200 --> 00:52:59.040 to the algorithm right so this gets very 00:52:59.040 --> 00:53:03.180 scary because God forbid you lose you 00:53:03.180 --> 00:53:07.140 know like like when I bought my first 00:53:07.140 --> 00:53:08.520 Volvo 00:53:08.520 --> 00:53:11.520 the VIN number 00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:14.880 on the metal piece in the car and the 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:17.760 VIN number on the manufacturer's 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.119 certificate were they didn't match there 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:24.540 was some clerical mistake but you go and 00:53:24.540 --> 00:53:26.640 you talk to a person and they're like oh 00:53:26.640 --> 00:53:28.619 well obviously it's the same car blah 00:53:28.619 --> 00:53:30.420 blah blah but 00:53:30.420 --> 00:53:34.559 you know how computers are that's that's 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.740 a deal breaker for a computer one digit 00:53:37.740 --> 00:53:41.540 is off and it'd be like no 00:53:42.180 --> 00:53:45.079 right no 00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:50.220 so you see the the uh yeah so that's in 00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:52.319 the that's an alternative that's that 00:53:52.319 --> 00:53:54.900 we're moving toward away from kind of 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:57.119 conventional justification which has 00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.940 some jurors and slippery slope and 00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:01.920 language and all this stuff it's gotten 00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:04.200 more and more sophisticated but it's 00:54:04.200 --> 00:54:07.440 kind of used up and what what Society is 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.059 putting in its place is this 00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.040 technological justification and the 00:54:11.040 --> 00:54:14.460 question is is there another way 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:17.940 to go in small groups there's a lot of 00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:21.000 ways to go the Quakers have interesting 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.760 justification systems they have a 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.280 handful of rules and then they process 00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.099 process you know the individual gets to 00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:31.079 talk and the elders the whole 00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:32.940 congregations that surround and they 00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:34.980 process and process and processes along 00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:39.920 drawn out process it doesn't scale but 00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:42.720 we're you know we didn't have any 00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:45.180 solutions we were just kind of looking 00:54:45.180 --> 00:54:48.180 at it as 00:54:48.180 --> 00:54:48.960 um 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:51.559 yeah 00:54:55.020 --> 00:54:59.040 what's the movement toward 00:54:59.040 --> 00:55:01.319 um Ai and 00:55:01.319 --> 00:55:04.990 kind of you know non-human interaction 00:55:04.990 --> 00:55:06.059 [Music] 00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:10.160 going to do to subjectivity 00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:12.480 well people are going to become more 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.180 like machines 00:55:15.180 --> 00:55:18.359 in fact I have this I have you know my 00:55:18.359 --> 00:55:20.640 agent in the machine I have one of the 00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:23.880 founders of AI being simulated saying 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:26.640 exactly that the dangers 00:55:26.640 --> 00:55:29.400 I I said this years ago in my medium 00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:32.880 publication that that 00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:35.220 machines haven't 00:55:35.220 --> 00:55:38.160 it can be arguable that machines aren't 00:55:38.160 --> 00:55:39.960 becoming more intelligent but people are 00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:42.900 becoming more like machines and the case 00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:44.940 is probably that but that the direction 00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:47.040 is in both ways 00:55:47.040 --> 00:55:50.220 so you standardize medicine 00:55:50.220 --> 00:55:52.500 your doctor starts acting I mean you can 00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:54.540 take my mom to the her general 00:55:54.540 --> 00:55:56.520 practitioner he just gets on his 00:55:56.520 --> 00:55:59.819 computer he he's useless why put a 00:55:59.819 --> 00:56:02.520 person between her and the Machine 00:56:02.520 --> 00:56:05.520 well because that's just the phase we're 00:56:05.520 --> 00:56:07.079 in pretty soon it'll just be the machine 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:09.660 you know and so 00:56:09.660 --> 00:56:11.579 um 00:56:11.579 --> 00:56:13.319 um this has been happening for a long 00:56:13.319 --> 00:56:16.980 time in terms of how kids write essays 00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:20.099 and how they they you know 00:56:20.099 --> 00:56:25.440 uh their the the um yeah so people have 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:28.800 becoming we swim in we we swim in the 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.440 language of machines and 00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:33.300 were becoming more and more like 00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:35.280 machines so 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:36.119 um 00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:37.619 yeah 00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:39.359 that's what's happening the production 00:56:39.359 --> 00:56:42.300 of subjectivity is the human is becoming 00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:43.980 the human interior is becoming more 00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:46.200 machine-like 00:56:46.200 --> 00:56:50.220 I just happen to read the summary of a 00:56:50.220 --> 00:56:51.059 visit 00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:54.780 that I had last week to an orthopedist 00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:56.280 and 00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:59.099 the summary was nothing like the visit 00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:02.359 it said he prescribed an 00:57:02.359 --> 00:57:05.460 anti-inflammatory which I did not get it 00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:08.640 said he you know I'm reading the thing 00:57:08.640 --> 00:57:11.760 and it's all just boilerplate but it had 00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:14.040 nothing to do with it was written right 00:57:14.040 --> 00:57:17.520 by a Chachi it's just like 00:57:17.520 --> 00:57:21.619 click here click here click it yeah and 00:57:21.619 --> 00:57:25.559 medicines right online for that and 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:27.900 um the next thing that's online that's 00:57:27.900 --> 00:57:31.520 have well finances has been heavily 00:57:31.520 --> 00:57:34.800 algorithms have made most of the large 00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:37.140 financial decisions for a long time now 00:57:37.140 --> 00:57:38.880 I mean they just trade faster than 00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:40.680 people can that's they make their own 00:57:40.680 --> 00:57:41.640 decisions 00:57:41.640 --> 00:57:43.380 and 00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:46.559 um in fact you could not audit the the 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:49.440 treasury of the United States 00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:51.599 you couldn't audit it because it would 00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:53.579 take you'd have to stop everything and 00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:56.460 it would take you 15 to 20 years to 00:57:56.460 --> 00:57:59.220 audit it with the help of AI 00:57:59.220 --> 00:58:01.800 it's just too big who knows what's being 00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:04.440 paid for nobody knows 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:06.720 nobody knows it's too big 00:58:06.720 --> 00:58:10.079 and then increasingly ai's medical 00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:12.480 decisions very steeped in medical 00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:15.780 decisions and increasingly AI is going 00:58:15.780 --> 00:58:19.319 to make judicial decisions based upon 00:58:19.319 --> 00:58:23.700 these uh technological security things 00:58:23.700 --> 00:58:27.420 and the whole justification is that AI 00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:28.859 is not biased 00:58:28.859 --> 00:58:31.020 you're not going to be a juror who's 00:58:31.020 --> 00:58:33.780 like got any bias or read the newspaper 00:58:33.780 --> 00:58:37.920 or falls in love with the celebrity 00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:40.520 who's the celebrity killer or whatever 00:58:40.520 --> 00:58:44.000 and and eventually 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.640 people will be thrown into that 00:58:47.640 --> 00:58:50.099 uh world and their subjectivity will 00:58:50.099 --> 00:58:53.119 become like machines 00:58:54.180 --> 00:58:55.079 um 00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:57.720 yeah that's that's pretty easy to see 00:58:57.720 --> 00:59:01.319 it's already the case so 00:59:01.319 --> 00:59:03.380 um 00:59:05.160 --> 00:59:07.859 and the thing is 00:59:07.859 --> 00:59:09.859 um 00:59:09.900 --> 00:59:11.599 it's it's it's 00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:15.980 non-linear in the sense that 00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:19.980 where that's true today will be less 00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:23.119 true in 50 years 00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:25.200 but 00:59:25.200 --> 00:59:27.660 in the developing world because they're 00:59:27.660 --> 00:59:28.880 becoming 00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:33.119 increasingly they're urbanizing faster 00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:35.760 than the Western World in the Western 00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:37.500 World we don't have any kids anymore and 00:59:37.500 --> 00:59:39.180 this and that 00:59:39.180 --> 00:59:43.140 um it will become that that Brave New 00:59:43.140 --> 00:59:45.359 World will become realized in the third 00:59:45.359 --> 00:59:47.640 world 00:59:47.640 --> 00:59:51.000 just at the time that the first world 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:54.720 quote unquote uh will be filled with 00:59:54.720 --> 00:59:59.220 holes and punched to death and uh 00:59:59.220 --> 01:00:03.720 probably uh examining something new 01:00:03.720 --> 01:00:05.819 so it's not kind of like we'll go to 01:00:05.819 --> 01:00:09.059 third world they're going to be uh 01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:11.400 indigenous and this and that now all the 01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:14.220 uh Mo because you know you come in 01:00:14.220 --> 01:00:17.640 they they they leap through 01:00:17.640 --> 01:00:19.500 sell you know they lead through land 01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:21.299 lines and this and that they go from 01:00:21.299 --> 01:00:23.819 like third world to like Brave New World 01:00:23.819 --> 01:00:25.380 really fast 01:00:25.380 --> 01:00:28.859 and so uh the acceleration is going to 01:00:28.859 --> 01:00:31.500 happen there 01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:34.559 um although the West started it the 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:36.540 acceleration and the completion will 01:00:36.540 --> 01:00:38.460 happen there 01:00:38.460 --> 01:00:40.319 um so 01:00:40.319 --> 01:00:43.099 uh 01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:55.040 Anna 01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.240 wow this is I find it fascinating and a 01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:01.920 lot is arising around that Tech 01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.220 justification and around algorithms 01:01:05.220 --> 01:01:07.799 around 01:01:07.799 --> 01:01:10.920 um the boundaries herself 01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:14.280 and my I have a lot of questions only I 01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:16.500 don't have any answers but my question 01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:20.579 is what is enslavement 01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:23.280 um what is athlete's perception like 01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:26.880 perceptual organs the sixth senses uh 01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.520 introception proprioception exterior 01:01:29.520 --> 01:01:32.280 section sorry 01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:35.400 and then the unmediated cognition 01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.660 so when I'm when I'm anchoring this 01:01:39.660 --> 01:01:41.819 perception in the world with as the 01:01:41.819 --> 01:01:44.280 world's perception how is that linked 01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:45.780 into boundaries 01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:49.140 and then my perceptual organs when I 01:01:49.140 --> 01:01:52.680 when I assume I know but because I think 01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:53.460 I 01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:56.160 for me all my organs have its own 01:01:56.160 --> 01:01:58.680 Consciousness I know that I'm a 01:01:58.680 --> 01:02:00.599 relationship to that 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:05.000 so am I being up here 01:02:05.220 --> 01:02:09.260 well probably not you so much 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.099 um 01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:19.079 so so I'm going to show you something I 01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:21.079 um 01:02:21.359 --> 01:02:24.720 I get a show this is this it should help 01:02:24.720 --> 01:02:27.059 you what you're saying obviously it's 01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:30.420 not an answer so if you draw like a 01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:33.660 ladder here try like a ladder there and 01:02:33.660 --> 01:02:35.819 in this ladder because remember we said 01:02:35.819 --> 01:02:38.280 there's the nature of mind and there's 01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:41.460 the kind of mind we have right so this 01:02:41.460 --> 01:02:43.260 is the argument I sent this to Greg 01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:46.640 Enriquez now here's like 01:02:46.640 --> 01:02:51.420 uh uh Mind of a a worm and here we have 01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:53.880 other animal minds and like we've been 01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.819 saying and 01:02:56.819 --> 01:02:59.819 um so each one of these mutations in 01:02:59.819 --> 01:03:02.280 evolution create a more sophisticated 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:05.180 mind and in this case I'm going to 01:03:05.180 --> 01:03:09.180 highlight this mutation this this is 01:03:09.180 --> 01:03:11.640 just sensory motor feedback 01:03:11.640 --> 01:03:14.520 this is an animal that can simulate its 01:03:14.520 --> 01:03:15.720 environment 01:03:15.720 --> 01:03:18.059 this is an animal that can simulate 01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:21.420 hypothetical environments and here is 01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:23.880 the animal that can simulate itself 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:27.059 that's human as far as we know animals 01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:29.160 can do all of these but as far as we 01:03:29.160 --> 01:03:31.700 know only a human has a little 01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:34.020 homunculus in their mind 01:03:34.020 --> 01:03:36.960 uh that they mistake for their embodied 01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.960 self and they live through that Avatar 01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:42.960 okay so this is the human can simulate 01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:45.180 themselves 01:03:45.180 --> 01:03:48.420 so when you can simulate yourself you 01:03:48.420 --> 01:03:50.460 can enter a justification system you 01:03:50.460 --> 01:03:52.920 could say well what if you were a person 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:54.900 that killed someone or what if you know 01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:58.020 what I'm saying now Greg Enriquez 01:03:58.020 --> 01:03:59.599 puts 01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:04.559 the AI cyborg justification system as 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:06.839 the Next Mutation 01:04:06.839 --> 01:04:11.280 and Consciousness and I say no the fact 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:14.040 that we can simulate ourselves and we 01:04:14.040 --> 01:04:16.500 can speak doesn't mean everything we say 01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:18.119 and simulate 01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.660 is evolutionarily positive 01:04:21.660 --> 01:04:24.480 right so there are some animals that 01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:26.579 could simulate hypothetical environments 01:04:26.579 --> 01:04:28.260 and they went extinct because the 01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:31.380 hypothetical environment so so the 01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:33.900 difference between these mutations and 01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:36.660 the Next Mutation in consciousness 01:04:36.660 --> 01:04:39.240 it's not at the end of a justification 01:04:39.240 --> 01:04:42.299 system it's not what we do with this new 01:04:42.299 --> 01:04:46.200 mutation that then goes on 01:04:46.200 --> 01:04:50.220 to be the next it's it's a different 01:04:50.220 --> 01:04:52.579 it's a different 01:04:52.579 --> 01:04:55.799 Dynamic Series right we can't possibly 01:04:55.799 --> 01:04:58.020 predict what this is any more than 01:04:58.020 --> 01:05:00.359 before we could simulate you know you 01:05:00.359 --> 01:05:03.599 can't predict these things but he thinks 01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:07.380 that the justification system is this 01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:10.260 next wrong and up here is 01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:14.940 the emerging of AI and humans into this 01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:17.760 larger mind form and I'm trying to tell 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:21.059 them no that's the scenario that's on 01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:22.200 this path 01:05:22.200 --> 01:05:25.260 and there's something else that can be 01:05:25.260 --> 01:05:28.020 coming in The evolutionary mutation does 01:05:28.020 --> 01:05:30.780 that make sense yeah I'm thinking what 01:05:30.780 --> 01:05:33.480 happened to uh Suzanne cook reuter when 01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:36.480 she did a sentence completion test and 01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:38.400 um I I'm not sure who gave it to her but 01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.319 one of the integral people think gave 01:05:40.319 --> 01:05:42.720 her the sentence completion test made by 01:05:42.720 --> 01:05:45.960 aai and I think she said what the 01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:48.359 is this this is who what kind of human 01:05:48.359 --> 01:05:51.960 uses so many words yeah she rated it at 01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:55.740 3.5 yeah on stages on the stages model 01:05:55.740 --> 01:05:58.680 so I'm very curious about algorithms and 01:05:58.680 --> 01:06:01.079 the people who who just create those 01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.839 algorithms around the 3.5 Mark at the 01:06:03.839 --> 01:06:06.839 moment and I'm very curious about 01:06:06.839 --> 01:06:08.880 the implications if I'm looking at that 01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.640 ladder that makes a lot of sense because 01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:14.940 you know there's so much more than than 01:06:14.940 --> 01:06:17.520 an algorithm to something 01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:20.880 and it has so much influence because its 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:23.940 capacity is just it's bleeding out in 01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:26.880 everything like the bangs like my phone 01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:31.980 like Wi-Fi my everything I am is almost 01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:34.260 like creating a layer upon a layer upon 01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:37.260 layer and almost taking away and that's 01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:39.299 the question that stands with me from 01:06:39.299 --> 01:06:41.579 the beginning of our course what is 01:06:41.579 --> 01:06:45.299 being taken away from us a lot yeah and 01:06:45.299 --> 01:06:47.099 that's what I feel is one of the biggest 01:06:47.099 --> 01:06:49.500 things that's taken away from me is 01:06:49.500 --> 01:06:54.000 these layers that are being put upon 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:56.400 I can only speak for myself but there is 01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:59.460 like I'm feeling I'm feeling devastated 01:06:59.460 --> 01:07:02.760 at times like why can't I just be with 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:04.980 all the sensors Tory things that are 01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:07.700 arising and just it's like it's like a 01:07:07.700 --> 01:07:10.619 Orchestra all the time but I don't want 01:07:10.619 --> 01:07:12.720 to hear the orchestra of a helicopter 01:07:12.720 --> 01:07:14.039 Chopper 01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.079 hoovering across my house in the middle 01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:17.760 of nature what the are you doing 01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:19.740 here off you know 01:07:19.740 --> 01:07:24.480 because you can and I think those things 01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:26.940 and then it's being asked of me to stay 01:07:26.940 --> 01:07:29.160 with that and integrate it but I don't 01:07:29.160 --> 01:07:31.099 want to 01:07:31.099 --> 01:07:34.380 that's one of these boundaries put a 01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:37.260 boundary around nature and say off 01:07:37.260 --> 01:07:41.400 and that makes you mad but so these 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:43.319 boundaries are not it's not I'm not 01:07:43.319 --> 01:07:46.020 saying it's wrong to put a boundary 01:07:46.020 --> 01:07:49.559 and get enraged uh but just just 01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:52.260 understand what you're doing and make it 01:07:52.260 --> 01:07:54.599 obligate you know voluntary obligation 01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:56.460 toward it 01:07:56.460 --> 01:07:59.339 um and a lot of times their boundaries 01:07:59.339 --> 01:08:02.160 and we get mad and they're like the 01:08:02.160 --> 01:08:04.020 stupidest things we've 01:08:04.020 --> 01:08:06.380 somehow been conditioned 01:08:06.380 --> 01:08:09.660 on Facebook but the thing is it's just 01:08:09.660 --> 01:08:13.700 like you're saying it's like it's just 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:17.460 young people think that the future 01:08:17.460 --> 01:08:19.859 scenario without internet without this 01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:23.460 without that like the model that plays 01:08:23.460 --> 01:08:25.920 on the head is like how horrible life 01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:28.620 must have been in the 40s or something 01:08:28.620 --> 01:08:30.600 and I'm telling you 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:34.380 life was not worse in the 40s maybe I'll 01:08:34.380 --> 01:08:36.000 I 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:39.179 there's many many things that have been 01:08:39.179 --> 01:08:41.940 robbed from Human Experience 01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:45.779 and so like this whole part of the 01:08:45.779 --> 01:08:48.299 meeting crisis and this crisis and that 01:08:48.299 --> 01:08:51.000 crisis is getting people like 01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.640 like all hyped up like what if our 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:55.679 supply chains you know like we used to 01:08:55.679 --> 01:08:58.679 eat mustard sandwiches and cucumber and 01:08:58.679 --> 01:09:01.319 butter on white toast 01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:05.339 and we didn't know it was like cucumbers 01:09:05.339 --> 01:09:08.940 and you know it was fun we had fun 01:09:08.940 --> 01:09:11.279 squishing the bread and 01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:15.000 you know and God forbid people think 01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:17.520 they're like they they like it's like 01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.799 having AIDS or something if you go back 01:09:19.799 --> 01:09:22.980 to living like it was in the 40s it was 01:09:22.980 --> 01:09:25.500 fun in the 40s we went to the woods and 01:09:25.500 --> 01:09:29.520 started fires and filled caves and 01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:32.160 yeah and 01:09:32.160 --> 01:09:34.679 so this is but it's all hype you know 01:09:34.679 --> 01:09:39.540 it's all like like uh it's all fueled by 01:09:39.540 --> 01:09:42.900 perverse and senses well Velveeta cheese 01:09:42.900 --> 01:09:44.759 they didn't even have Velveeta cheese 01:09:44.759 --> 01:09:49.279 when I grew up craft though craft dad 01:09:50.160 --> 01:09:52.020 um what do you know about Velveeta 01:09:52.020 --> 01:09:53.640 cheese you were on like a freaking 01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:56.340 commune 01:09:56.340 --> 01:09:59.120 foreign 01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.380 I just stayed out of a garden it was 01:10:04.380 --> 01:10:07.219 before that 01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:14.160 meat potatoes a soggy vegetable yeah I 01:10:14.160 --> 01:10:16.920 hadn't seen a real brussels sprouts I 01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:18.900 never even knew what a brussels sprouts 01:10:18.900 --> 01:10:20.219 was 01:10:20.219 --> 01:10:22.860 growing up for fresh asparagus you 01:10:22.860 --> 01:10:24.600 didn't you worked you didn't have 01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:26.699 vitamin deficiencies because you didn't 01:10:26.699 --> 01:10:29.219 eat vitamin water and have like 01:10:29.219 --> 01:10:32.460 expensive organic food this is not the 01:10:32.460 --> 01:10:35.820 way it actually works it's just all 01:10:35.820 --> 01:10:38.820 advertising 01:10:54.540 --> 01:10:58.020 not 100 sure how it relates 01:10:58.020 --> 01:10:59.820 but I had this really interesting 01:10:59.820 --> 01:11:02.719 conversation with somebody I work with 01:11:02.719 --> 01:11:07.340 who has a child who's 25 lives at home 01:11:07.340 --> 01:11:11.100 plays video games all day is on a beige 01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:12.380 diet 01:11:12.380 --> 01:11:15.840 which means just eats white bread 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:19.500 chicken fries chips anything kind of 01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:23.580 white beige-ish no vegetables please and 01:11:23.580 --> 01:11:25.739 then 01:11:25.739 --> 01:11:30.120 um regularly doesn't sleep at all uh 01:11:30.120 --> 01:11:32.460 during the night and then struggles to 01:11:32.460 --> 01:11:36.420 go to work uh the next day because 01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:39.719 um of mental health issues 01:11:39.719 --> 01:11:41.760 and 01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:47.280 I was I was listening to it and 01:11:47.280 --> 01:11:50.340 I was like you know 01:11:50.340 --> 01:11:55.260 quite sad for the perception that the 01:11:55.260 --> 01:11:57.780 young person had of 01:11:57.780 --> 01:11:59.460 what it's 01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:01.560 um you know was able to do to him to 01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:03.840 themselves while thinking they would 01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.719 also be able to maintain some of the 01:12:06.719 --> 01:12:10.340 expectations put on him her 01:12:10.340 --> 01:12:13.679 by Society such as you know working if 01:12:13.679 --> 01:12:16.199 you're committing to a job 01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:17.699 um 01:12:17.699 --> 01:12:19.860 and I was also reflecting back on how 01:12:19.860 --> 01:12:22.020 how my own Journey was where you know 01:12:22.020 --> 01:12:25.320 you kind of yes you think you can do all 01:12:25.320 --> 01:12:28.140 these extra things on top of what you're 01:12:28.140 --> 01:12:31.980 what you you feel your obligation is and 01:12:31.980 --> 01:12:34.440 then that mismatch that can exist like 01:12:34.440 --> 01:12:35.400 you know 01:12:35.400 --> 01:12:37.620 I had a period in my life where I 01:12:37.620 --> 01:12:39.360 thought it was okay to drink alcohol 01:12:39.360 --> 01:12:42.360 every evening and I thought it was just 01:12:42.360 --> 01:12:45.480 normal or I was I thought I could get 01:12:45.480 --> 01:12:47.520 away with eating all kinds of junk Foods 01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:50.460 many many uh times a week 01:12:50.460 --> 01:12:54.659 and uh feel fine and it was only when I 01:12:54.659 --> 01:12:57.900 really started to examine those 01:12:57.900 --> 01:13:00.300 I guess it's in a way it's a 01:13:00.300 --> 01:13:03.000 justification system in in action or at 01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:04.739 least an element of it 01:13:04.739 --> 01:13:07.080 when I started investigating and I gave 01:13:07.080 --> 01:13:10.920 up alcohol entirely actually and I 01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:14.400 stopped eating junk food and the big 01:13:14.400 --> 01:13:17.699 changes that that occurred for me that 01:13:17.699 --> 01:13:19.980 um kind of I felt like I was becoming 01:13:19.980 --> 01:13:22.380 more centered again as a human being I 01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:24.659 felt more centered I felt way more way 01:13:24.659 --> 01:13:25.620 better 01:13:25.620 --> 01:13:29.100 and I'm not in uh you know I'm not off 01:13:29.100 --> 01:13:32.100 to believe that it's it's a poison or 01:13:32.100 --> 01:13:34.560 it's a disease that I you know I need to 01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:38.159 be kept away from no no I prefer not 01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:40.620 drinking I prefer not eating junk food 01:13:40.620 --> 01:13:44.100 and you know it's enabled me to Center 01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:45.360 myself 01:13:45.360 --> 01:13:48.600 in a in a different way than I felt 01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:51.900 before or maybe I've I'm truly getting 01:13:51.900 --> 01:13:53.400 more centered 01:13:53.400 --> 01:13:56.340 but I was I guess my point kind of was 01:13:56.340 --> 01:13:59.820 or is that I really wanted to talk to 01:13:59.820 --> 01:14:02.460 the 25 year olds and have a conversation 01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:04.140 about like you know what are some of 01:14:04.140 --> 01:14:05.940 these misconceptions 01:14:05.940 --> 01:14:08.340 uh and not not in a judgmental way but 01:14:08.340 --> 01:14:10.800 more like you know hey how do you see 01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:14.340 this like are you aware that that you 01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:16.440 know staying up all night filling your 01:14:16.440 --> 01:14:18.900 your body with adrenaline through the 01:14:18.900 --> 01:14:20.760 expressive shooter games you play all 01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:23.640 night uh everything that goes on there 01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:25.920 you know do you realize there's a cause 01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:28.440 and effect going on here and you know 01:14:28.440 --> 01:14:30.480 like just this kind of cause and effect 01:14:30.480 --> 01:14:32.340 stuff 01:14:32.340 --> 01:14:33.659 um 01:14:33.659 --> 01:14:35.400 and then you step back and you think 01:14:35.400 --> 01:14:38.159 there's these big industries that play 01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:42.000 that that uh that you know inject their 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:45.360 their justifications into society and 01:14:45.360 --> 01:14:47.340 people just swallow it 01:14:47.340 --> 01:14:50.699 and there is there is you know an 01:14:50.699 --> 01:14:52.020 um especially with the internet and 01:14:52.020 --> 01:14:53.280 everything 01:14:53.280 --> 01:14:57.360 it's just there's all these sub-optimal 01:14:57.360 --> 01:14:58.739 um 01:14:58.739 --> 01:15:02.400 Justified ways of being that don't serve 01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:03.960 at all 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:06.719 and they're just being maintained and 01:15:06.719 --> 01:15:08.940 it's all interrelated I'm gonna stop 01:15:08.940 --> 01:15:11.400 talking first wait talking way too much 01:15:11.400 --> 01:15:12.719 but like 01:15:12.719 --> 01:15:14.880 it's just to me it feels like it's all 01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:17.760 interrelated but and I I see the 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:21.420 components but it's also quite blurred 01:15:21.420 --> 01:15:24.840 it's bloody fascinating but 01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:27.900 I think you know is it that we can just 01:15:27.900 --> 01:15:30.239 do best for ourselves 01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:33.300 is that where the focus should be or or 01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:34.980 is it something that we as a collective 01:15:34.980 --> 01:15:38.000 need to kind of try and influence others 01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:40.739 or is this what we should be creating 01:15:40.739 --> 01:15:42.900 YouTube channels for 01:15:42.900 --> 01:15:44.580 you know and I loved your expression 01:15:44.580 --> 01:15:46.320 last time about the cow introducing 01:15:46.320 --> 01:15:49.140 bringing the cows back to the grass uh 01:15:49.140 --> 01:15:50.880 or yeah I'm butchering it a little bit 01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:53.820 but like I think the ambition 01:15:53.820 --> 01:15:57.000 sorry I'm going to shut up but like yeah 01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.940 stuff that goes on in the head 01:15:59.940 --> 01:16:04.520 yeah so it's really sad because 01:16:04.679 --> 01:16:06.300 I first started YouTube 01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:08.820 right it was kind of cool you could look 01:16:08.820 --> 01:16:11.219 up this I I remember learning about 01:16:11.219 --> 01:16:13.739 ducks on YouTube and learning about all 01:16:13.739 --> 01:16:15.540 kinds of weird things people would put 01:16:15.540 --> 01:16:20.940 on YouTube and it was a comment and now 01:16:20.940 --> 01:16:23.159 everything has got ads everything is 01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:27.659 monetized like like in the short period 01:16:27.659 --> 01:16:29.960 of time it 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:33.840 YouTubers and what YouTube used to be 01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:35.910 um it's actually 01:16:35.910 --> 01:16:36.300 [Music] 01:16:36.300 --> 01:16:38.300 um 01:16:41.219 --> 01:16:45.120 there's some if you there it take it's a 01:16:45.120 --> 01:16:47.699 real struggle to make it worthwhile now 01:16:47.699 --> 01:16:51.320 whereas before it was simpler and more 01:16:51.320 --> 01:16:55.500 uh friendly and worthwhile now you can 01:16:55.500 --> 01:16:57.719 find more heavily produced cool things 01:16:57.719 --> 01:17:00.719 but there's so much noise and there's so 01:17:00.719 --> 01:17:02.580 much advertising and I think they even 01:17:02.580 --> 01:17:04.739 put ads on on the pop-up school things 01:17:04.739 --> 01:17:06.719 or something I mean like it's like I 01:17:06.719 --> 01:17:09.360 don't get monetized I don't didn't ask 01:17:09.360 --> 01:17:11.460 for that 01:17:11.460 --> 01:17:12.300 um 01:17:12.300 --> 01:17:14.460 and 01:17:14.460 --> 01:17:16.580 um 01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:19.980 and the and 01:17:19.980 --> 01:17:23.460 it's kind of like these incentives are 01:17:23.460 --> 01:17:26.100 sucking the life world out of children 01:17:26.100 --> 01:17:28.020 really 01:17:28.020 --> 01:17:30.020 um 01:17:33.420 --> 01:17:36.420 you know it's it's not as little as the 01:17:36.420 --> 01:17:38.159 Matrix where there are actual bodies 01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:40.320 laying down and then electrodes in their 01:17:40.320 --> 01:17:42.540 heads but it's not really any different 01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:44.420 because you're using 01:17:44.420 --> 01:17:50.040 the the the the Ambient Energy the cha a 01:17:50.040 --> 01:17:54.440 young person has and it's psychological 01:17:54.440 --> 01:18:00.960 needs uh make it ideal to uh be for the 01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:03.659 system to parasitize 01:18:03.659 --> 01:18:05.880 um and that's actually more of the 01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:08.880 literal truth of it than 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:11.640 any other kind of justification you can 01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:13.320 have 01:18:13.320 --> 01:18:14.900 um 01:18:14.900 --> 01:18:18.900 so uh 01:18:27.659 --> 01:18:31.260 it's got to be heartbreaking to you know 01:18:31.260 --> 01:18:34.860 like in Japan they have a real 01:18:34.860 --> 01:18:37.679 disease where like I don't know 40 of 01:18:37.679 --> 01:18:40.320 men between the ages of 20 and 40 never 01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:42.600 come out of their their room they just 01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:44.159 play video games 01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:49.080 and their parents take care of them like 01:18:49.260 --> 01:18:51.360 yeah there's something 01:18:51.360 --> 01:18:55.400 very sad about that Charlie 01:18:58.860 --> 01:19:00.840 you know and 01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:04.679 so much of this fascinating and I'm also 01:19:04.679 --> 01:19:07.980 you know trying to figure out 01:19:07.980 --> 01:19:11.580 where my own I think that 01:19:11.580 --> 01:19:13.320 you know the the little bit that I've 01:19:13.320 --> 01:19:16.380 been here with you all I'm 01:19:16.380 --> 01:19:18.960 getting a lot of value out but I also 01:19:18.960 --> 01:19:21.719 realize that 01:19:21.719 --> 01:19:24.000 the reason that I have so much further 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:25.920 to go 01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:29.120 you know relates to 01:19:29.120 --> 01:19:31.860 dysfunction in various parts of these 01:19:31.860 --> 01:19:35.000 areas with respect to 01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:38.880 not having been embodied my entire life 01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:40.199 and 01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:42.960 and the way that that played out was 01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.380 that 01:19:45.780 --> 01:19:48.900 at a certain point sometime I think in 01:19:48.900 --> 01:19:50.880 my early 30s 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:54.060 I deliberately made the choice that I 01:19:54.060 --> 01:19:55.560 was going to try to 01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:58.679 engage as much as I could in technology 01:19:58.679 --> 01:20:00.179 and 01:20:00.179 --> 01:20:02.159 I found that that really worked for me 01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:04.920 because you don't have to be embodied to 01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.199 understand 01:20:06.199 --> 01:20:09.300 when there's a binary right and it's 01:20:09.300 --> 01:20:12.000 either yes or it's no and 01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:16.920 that really worked in my favor because I 01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:19.080 didn't have the capacity to handle 01:20:19.080 --> 01:20:20.520 complexity 01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:22.080 but yet 01:20:22.080 --> 01:20:26.040 I could sort of make my way through from 01:20:26.040 --> 01:20:28.140 the bottom up in understanding 01:20:28.140 --> 01:20:30.480 technology and 01:20:30.480 --> 01:20:32.960 there was a point I was actually working 01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:36.120 more than 20 years ago at a company that 01:20:36.120 --> 01:20:39.480 was back then trying to do Ai and 01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:41.880 sometime in the afternoon everybody in 01:20:41.880 --> 01:20:43.560 the office most of whom were younger 01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:46.380 than me they were all in their early 20s 01:20:46.380 --> 01:20:49.040 they would all start to play video games 01:20:49.040 --> 01:20:52.980 and I had an experience with golf early 01:20:52.980 --> 01:20:54.840 in my life where I realized that like 01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:57.000 it's one of those things where the the 01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:59.280 learning curve at the bottom is too long 01:20:59.280 --> 01:21:01.980 I wasn't interested in devoting the 01:21:01.980 --> 01:21:03.960 effort to get good at golf because 01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:05.640 what's the payoff then you can hit a 01:21:05.640 --> 01:21:07.199 ball into a hole 01:21:07.199 --> 01:21:09.960 um and and I saw the same thing about 01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:12.900 video games that is in order to compete 01:21:12.900 --> 01:21:14.580 with everybody else you actually had to 01:21:14.580 --> 01:21:16.800 spend all this time and so I 01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:19.440 deliberately didn't and in my head I was 01:21:19.440 --> 01:21:21.840 literally saying 01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:24.000 trying to figure out how the computer 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:27.600 works is a much better game for me to 01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:32.580 play and so I did and it's worked out in 01:21:32.580 --> 01:21:37.500 the long run and and so hearing 01:21:37.500 --> 01:21:39.420 and again you're not the only people to 01:21:39.420 --> 01:21:42.840 be sort of fear-mongering about where 01:21:42.840 --> 01:21:46.020 we're going with the future and AI 01:21:46.020 --> 01:21:47.820 it's just I have a very different 01:21:47.820 --> 01:21:50.340 perspective 01:21:50.340 --> 01:21:53.120 and 01:21:54.900 --> 01:21:58.320 you know I guess my hope is that as you 01:21:58.320 --> 01:22:01.800 were saying that humans will get more 01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:03.540 machine-like 01:22:03.540 --> 01:22:08.340 there are a subset of AI researchers who 01:22:08.340 --> 01:22:10.739 are trying to make machines more 01:22:10.739 --> 01:22:13.800 human-like right and to introduce Nuance 01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:16.920 into the software in the right ways but 01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.080 I also understand the dysfunction that 01:22:19.080 --> 01:22:21.480 you witnessed at the bank and in fact 01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:24.260 you know technology is my day job I just 01:22:24.260 --> 01:22:27.659 was you know a guy who was my professor 01:22:27.659 --> 01:22:30.600 40 years ago who can't figure out how to 01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:33.480 log into his Gmail account and you know 01:22:33.480 --> 01:22:36.900 it's it there's nothing to do about it 01:22:36.900 --> 01:22:40.860 except try to be patient and help but 01:22:40.860 --> 01:22:43.860 it's I don't know if I have much of a 01:22:43.860 --> 01:22:45.659 point but 01:22:45.659 --> 01:22:47.580 like Eric I feel like I've talked too 01:22:47.580 --> 01:22:50.100 much no like okay 01:22:50.100 --> 01:22:54.719 so we're not actually that 01:22:54.719 --> 01:22:57.560 uh 01:22:57.840 --> 01:23:01.980 so like here's a question why is the bot 01:23:01.980 --> 01:23:06.300 it you the body is attracted to AI this 01:23:06.300 --> 01:23:09.060 is this is the truth our bodies are 01:23:09.060 --> 01:23:11.280 attracted to AI 01:23:11.280 --> 01:23:13.080 um 01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:15.480 um I'm actually building something 01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:19.739 called the cognoscope which is an AI 01:23:19.739 --> 01:23:23.400 thing it's built obviously on a chat 01:23:23.400 --> 01:23:27.659 jpt4 but were my team is revising it to 01:23:27.659 --> 01:23:29.940 build it on something called action 01:23:29.940 --> 01:23:31.620 logic so 01:23:31.620 --> 01:23:34.560 I think that 01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:36.739 um 01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:41.040 you know everything is very non-linear 01:23:41.040 --> 01:23:43.500 and 01:23:43.500 --> 01:23:46.320 um I'm just saying that this is this is 01:23:46.320 --> 01:23:48.719 what we're going through you can have 01:23:48.719 --> 01:23:51.540 many many people that are doctors you 01:23:51.540 --> 01:23:53.159 know years ago you could be a doctor you 01:23:53.159 --> 01:23:56.300 get a career you lived in the town you 01:23:56.300 --> 01:24:00.300 grew up with the children and you raised 01:24:00.300 --> 01:24:04.679 babies and you put their people to their 01:24:04.679 --> 01:24:07.940 last days and you became a wise person 01:24:07.940 --> 01:24:10.980 and today to have a career as a doctor 01:24:10.980 --> 01:24:15.060 is not very well suited to become wise 01:24:15.060 --> 01:24:17.940 if you're just doing AI so these things 01:24:17.940 --> 01:24:21.000 are real but on the other hand 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:21.780 um 01:24:21.780 --> 01:24:24.480 why is the human body attracted to AI 01:24:24.480 --> 01:24:27.360 what is it I I was saying to someone the 01:24:27.360 --> 01:24:29.340 other day yesterday 01:24:29.340 --> 01:24:31.440 oh people are going to love this this 01:24:31.440 --> 01:24:33.719 cognoscope we're building and I kept on 01:24:33.719 --> 01:24:36.420 saying moth to a flame moth now was that 01:24:36.420 --> 01:24:38.400 you guys I was saying like I'm off to a 01:24:38.400 --> 01:24:40.440 flame oh no I was talking about bad boy 01:24:40.440 --> 01:24:42.900 syndrome but there's something about Ai 01:24:42.900 --> 01:24:44.699 and people it's like moth to a flame 01:24:44.699 --> 01:24:47.400 moth to a flame moth to a flame 01:24:47.400 --> 01:24:51.260 and so on the one hand we need to be 01:24:51.260 --> 01:24:56.280 aware of the dysfunction that it brings 01:24:56.280 --> 01:24:59.159 um and on the other hand understand 01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:01.980 there's something about AI That's like 01:25:01.980 --> 01:25:06.780 moth to a flame and this is an 01:25:06.780 --> 01:25:09.120 interesting question like if you zoom 01:25:09.120 --> 01:25:11.880 out uh it's an interesting question 01:25:11.880 --> 01:25:13.980 what's on the other side of this I don't 01:25:13.980 --> 01:25:17.100 know but what I do know is that the 01:25:17.100 --> 01:25:19.500 price the humanity is going to pay is 01:25:19.500 --> 01:25:22.500 for many generations of Lost Children 01:25:22.500 --> 01:25:25.260 let's say identity formation on 01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:28.140 computers is horrible 01:25:28.140 --> 01:25:33.179 um and this is this is a very large 01:25:33.179 --> 01:25:36.659 price and yet it's not a project you're 01:25:36.659 --> 01:25:38.760 going to stop 01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:41.340 um so 01:25:41.340 --> 01:25:45.420 I'm not like we're not exactly on 01:25:45.420 --> 01:25:48.120 the same page in terms of the journey to 01:25:48.120 --> 01:25:50.699 get here both of us here in this time 01:25:50.699 --> 01:25:53.580 space capsule on the internet 01:25:53.580 --> 01:25:54.360 um 01:25:54.360 --> 01:25:58.580 but the the question 01:25:58.620 --> 01:26:01.920 is not that different really do you know 01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:06.260 what I'm saying so so 01:26:07.860 --> 01:26:10.440 the last thing you want is a bunch of 01:26:10.440 --> 01:26:12.540 embodied people that don't know anything 01:26:12.540 --> 01:26:17.280 about AI you know I uh we what we want 01:26:17.280 --> 01:26:20.520 is a network of people who can 01:26:20.520 --> 01:26:23.219 can 01:26:23.219 --> 01:26:27.540 agree on on what's happening in sort of 01:26:27.540 --> 01:26:29.520 a kind of 01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:32.280 this is what is actually happening right 01:26:32.280 --> 01:26:35.300 and without a doubt uh it's it's 01:26:35.300 --> 01:26:38.820 costing many generations of older people 01:26:38.820 --> 01:26:41.520 a lot of confusion it's very sad it's 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:43.739 costing a lot of young especially men 01:26:43.739 --> 01:26:46.260 well women too on Tick Tock it's costing 01:26:46.260 --> 01:26:48.360 them a lot in terms of certain 01:26:48.360 --> 01:26:50.820 Generations because of identity 01:26:50.820 --> 01:26:53.580 formation is really 01:26:53.580 --> 01:26:57.840 screwy on social media but 01:26:57.840 --> 01:26:59.960 um 01:27:05.340 --> 01:27:08.040 yeah I guess the the one thing that it 01:27:08.040 --> 01:27:10.980 feels like it may be helpful to add is 01:27:10.980 --> 01:27:11.940 that 01:27:11.940 --> 01:27:14.820 all of the successes that we have right 01:27:14.820 --> 01:27:18.060 now and there are many with AI are 01:27:18.060 --> 01:27:22.260 narrow AI where you're in the single 01:27:22.260 --> 01:27:26.239 domain and doing incredible things and 01:27:26.239 --> 01:27:29.219 again the guy that I was working for 01:27:29.219 --> 01:27:31.199 more than 20 years ago who's still in 01:27:31.199 --> 01:27:33.120 the game and right there you know 01:27:33.120 --> 01:27:34.980 pushing forward sort of on his own 01:27:34.980 --> 01:27:36.659 because he doesn't work for Google or 01:27:36.659 --> 01:27:39.120 Microsoft or whatever 01:27:39.120 --> 01:27:42.239 um you know is you know the goal is 01:27:42.239 --> 01:27:44.580 artificial general intelligence right to 01:27:44.580 --> 01:27:49.500 try to come up and in fact embodiment is 01:27:49.500 --> 01:27:51.420 maybe the key right how do you figure 01:27:51.420 --> 01:27:54.480 out how to 01:27:54.480 --> 01:27:58.860 get the software to have some feeling of 01:27:58.860 --> 01:28:01.199 being embodied because 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:03.840 if that can happen then maybe there's 01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.420 some way you can simulate affect any 01:28:06.420 --> 01:28:08.280 help 01:28:08.280 --> 01:28:11.100 yeah it'll be interesting to have this 01:28:11.100 --> 01:28:14.639 conversation after I finish my agent 01:28:14.639 --> 01:28:18.360 the action you know the agent first one 01:28:18.360 --> 01:28:20.460 was what agent in the machine and then 01:28:20.460 --> 01:28:22.080 the next one is going to be the agent in 01:28:22.080 --> 01:28:24.120 the world and 01:28:24.120 --> 01:28:27.800 um but uh 01:28:28.080 --> 01:28:30.060 it's an interesting question and there's 01:28:30.060 --> 01:28:31.920 a lot of like 01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:33.840 like 01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:35.840 um 01:28:35.880 --> 01:28:38.460 there's there's a lot of 01:28:38.460 --> 01:28:40.739 people 01:28:40.739 --> 01:28:43.080 um asking questions at this level you 01:28:43.080 --> 01:28:45.000 know on both sides of the 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:48.600 the sis the coin so 01:28:48.600 --> 01:28:51.060 um yeah 01:28:51.060 --> 01:28:53.520 it'll be interesting 01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:56.219 um but it certainly has momentum of its 01:28:56.219 --> 01:29:00.060 own and it's not like you can get ahead 01:29:00.060 --> 01:29:03.300 of it and turn the clock back or 01:29:03.300 --> 01:29:05.159 something 01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:08.460 it's the era we live in they are you 01:29:08.460 --> 01:29:11.060 grew up in 01:29:14.520 --> 01:29:17.239 Adriana 01:29:19.560 --> 01:29:22.380 um yes I was just I might change a 01:29:22.380 --> 01:29:24.600 little bit I was I raised my hand for 01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:28.199 some reason and then that fast so I'll 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:30.300 just I'll just try to make it alive 01:29:30.300 --> 01:29:32.280 again I am 01:29:32.280 --> 01:29:34.020 I think there was one in one of the 01:29:34.020 --> 01:29:36.780 videos that um I watched of this recap 01:29:36.780 --> 01:29:39.420 which has been really uh useful for me 01:29:39.420 --> 01:29:41.219 because I haven't participated for so 01:29:41.219 --> 01:29:43.139 long so it was kind of like a 01:29:43.139 --> 01:29:46.139 appreciated David your summary your 01:29:46.139 --> 01:29:48.840 encapsulators I appreciated everybody's 01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:51.659 input because for somebody that hasn't 01:29:51.659 --> 01:29:55.500 participated live for so long 01:29:55.500 --> 01:29:56.940 um 01:29:56.940 --> 01:29:59.219 um I was just remembering the 01:29:59.219 --> 01:30:02.340 applications in other people's worlds 01:30:02.340 --> 01:30:05.699 and having bunny Riff on that and 01:30:05.699 --> 01:30:07.440 um so I just wanted to offer a few 01:30:07.440 --> 01:30:10.020 things that arose for me I mean through 01:30:10.020 --> 01:30:11.699 the conversation it feels like one long 01:30:11.699 --> 01:30:13.980 conversation for me which all the Recaps 01:30:13.980 --> 01:30:16.440 that I listened and now this one that 01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:18.060 I'm participating in 01:30:18.060 --> 01:30:20.699 and I think that one of the things that 01:30:20.699 --> 01:30:23.880 was interesting for me to watch as 01:30:23.880 --> 01:30:25.920 opposed to participate which I hadn't 01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:29.159 thought of is that I have to be with the 01:30:29.159 --> 01:30:32.340 trouble in in regards to my effect every 01:30:32.340 --> 01:30:34.980 time I have an arousal or not a fact I 01:30:34.980 --> 01:30:38.159 have an arousal I can't act on it and 01:30:38.159 --> 01:30:41.760 because I know people here a little bit 01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:43.560 because I have been in the sessions it's 01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.540 it's kind of interesting for me because 01:30:45.540 --> 01:30:47.280 my mind plays games that I am in the 01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:49.679 session but I'm not so 01:30:49.679 --> 01:30:53.159 um even now the screen switched to a 01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:55.020 recording of the last session so I 01:30:55.020 --> 01:30:56.520 didn't know which one I was in I was 01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:58.260 like oh oh this is the recording and 01:30:58.260 --> 01:31:00.120 this is the one I am 01:31:00.120 --> 01:31:01.500 and 01:31:01.500 --> 01:31:05.219 so the the way that I have to be with 01:31:05.219 --> 01:31:08.239 the arouser without participating 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:11.460 percolates in me in a way that thoughts 01:31:11.460 --> 01:31:13.860 that are generated wouldn't have been 01:31:13.860 --> 01:31:16.080 generated if I was here because I'm 01:31:16.080 --> 01:31:18.300 shaping like I'm helping shape this 01:31:18.300 --> 01:31:21.920 field so my mind is an actor here 01:31:21.920 --> 01:31:24.540 whereas all these six months or whatever 01:31:24.540 --> 01:31:27.120 that I haven't been an actor 01:31:27.120 --> 01:31:30.540 I haven't been able to inject my 01:31:30.540 --> 01:31:31.800 patterns 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:33.540 and therefore that has been really 01:31:33.540 --> 01:31:36.600 really useful for me because uh it just 01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:40.679 has undone other things like I I have um 01:31:40.679 --> 01:31:42.679 and I had to sit with other people's 01:31:42.679 --> 01:31:45.480 minds how it landed for David and Justin 01:31:45.480 --> 01:31:49.440 and Eric and and then I was like ah I 01:31:49.440 --> 01:31:51.540 would never have produced these thoughts 01:31:51.540 --> 01:31:54.060 but if I let them sit with me for long 01:31:54.060 --> 01:31:55.040 enough 01:31:55.040 --> 01:31:58.800 then some creativity is generated so 01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:02.219 that was a very useful recognition so 01:32:02.219 --> 01:32:02.820 um 01:32:02.820 --> 01:32:05.100 that's one thing that I was like uh I 01:32:05.100 --> 01:32:07.020 didn't feel like I was missing as not 01:32:07.020 --> 01:32:08.580 being part of that I thought I was 01:32:08.580 --> 01:32:10.440 gaining a different way of acting with 01:32:10.440 --> 01:32:12.239 you know um 01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:15.239 and and then somebody else said about I 01:32:15.239 --> 01:32:16.920 think there were people sharing about 01:32:16.920 --> 01:32:19.440 the embodiment piece that the course has 01:32:19.440 --> 01:32:21.659 given them or how like being really 01:32:21.659 --> 01:32:25.260 alive and what what has been true for me 01:32:25.260 --> 01:32:27.960 in my experience is less that nobody 01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:30.179 doesn't give me but I think because I 01:32:30.179 --> 01:32:33.960 came from uh having other teachers that 01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:37.260 have primarily focused on that well this 01:32:37.260 --> 01:32:39.300 course has given me is the bridge with 01:32:39.300 --> 01:32:41.639 the mind which I find really really 01:32:41.639 --> 01:32:43.800 useful like I can't even explain how 01:32:43.800 --> 01:32:45.719 useful it is because it's like having a 01:32:45.719 --> 01:32:47.639 shared justification 01:32:47.639 --> 01:32:50.639 because the other features that I have 01:32:50.639 --> 01:32:52.800 been with which I love and they're so 01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:56.719 helpful they have really helped 01:32:56.719 --> 01:32:59.820 resensitize my body so that's to to 01:32:59.820 --> 01:33:01.560 Charlie's 01:33:01.560 --> 01:33:04.260 point I was also numb and I mean if you 01:33:04.260 --> 01:33:06.600 do research I work a lot with a female 01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:09.920 body and and and and and and and and 01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:13.100 there's so many things that the female 01:33:13.100 --> 01:33:15.900 reproductive system uh you know if you 01:33:15.900 --> 01:33:18.300 put a pill on that for many years that 01:33:18.300 --> 01:33:20.100 shapes the whole minds of generations 01:33:20.100 --> 01:33:22.199 and that's okay I'm not even saying that 01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:24.120 but I'm I'm just saying that there's so 01:33:24.120 --> 01:33:26.639 much that we don't do we don't know what 01:33:26.639 --> 01:33:28.800 goes on we don't understand the female 01:33:28.800 --> 01:33:31.260 physiology as opposed to the male and 01:33:31.260 --> 01:33:34.080 and the FX stream and how it lands but 01:33:34.080 --> 01:33:37.699 so I'm I'm saying all that because 01:33:37.699 --> 01:33:40.739 through listening to the new ones and 01:33:40.739 --> 01:33:42.719 the fine-graining 01:33:42.719 --> 01:33:44.340 of 01:33:44.340 --> 01:33:45.300 um that's 01:33:45.300 --> 01:33:48.179 being given by you Bonnie and then 01:33:48.179 --> 01:33:50.580 grappled with by by the pop-up school 01:33:50.580 --> 01:33:53.340 and then hashed out 01:33:53.340 --> 01:33:56.219 it's given me so much more touch points 01:33:56.219 --> 01:33:58.620 how to Shared reality with people 01:33:58.620 --> 01:34:01.679 because I'm I'm noticing that what my 01:34:01.679 --> 01:34:03.840 work so that has helped a lot in my work 01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:07.040 because in my work I work a lot with 01:34:07.040 --> 01:34:11.219 uh reconnecting maybe even describe my 01:34:11.219 --> 01:34:13.800 work as trying to create a justification 01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.800 system that's more supportive to the 01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:20.000 female physiology so so if you do have 01:34:20.000 --> 01:34:22.080 dispositional states that change 01:34:22.080 --> 01:34:24.300 throughout the month every day 01:34:24.300 --> 01:34:26.280 that in that is true I mean it's true 01:34:26.280 --> 01:34:28.080 for everybody but in the female body 01:34:28.080 --> 01:34:30.960 that is really true in the cocktail of 01:34:30.960 --> 01:34:33.480 hormones so then the interface with 01:34:33.480 --> 01:34:36.960 reality uh and progress the way the 01:34:36.960 --> 01:34:39.659 progress is gonna show up or the uh how 01:34:39.659 --> 01:34:44.179 body calls the Cosmopolitan cells 01:34:44.179 --> 01:34:46.639 interfaces with that 01:34:46.639 --> 01:34:49.199 produces a certain justification that I 01:34:49.199 --> 01:34:51.360 see in the women that I work with which 01:34:51.360 --> 01:34:54.000 is not helpful at all it just Loops in 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:57.060 itself and it's not creative so then I 01:34:57.060 --> 01:34:59.340 now I can have much more language what 01:34:59.340 --> 01:35:00.960 what this course has given me is that 01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:03.239 when I say to women dispositional State 01:35:03.239 --> 01:35:05.699 and I and we can create our own language 01:35:05.699 --> 01:35:08.100 but they understand they're not 01:35:08.100 --> 01:35:11.300 emotional they go like oh my 01:35:11.300 --> 01:35:14.100 dispositional my state shift every day 01:35:14.100 --> 01:35:16.860 it's not that I'm erratic and then 01:35:16.860 --> 01:35:19.320 slowly they start having more touch 01:35:19.320 --> 01:35:22.679 points to their experience and then we 01:35:22.679 --> 01:35:26.040 can communicate to the other physiology 01:35:26.040 --> 01:35:29.639 which might be a man or a trans man or a 01:35:29.639 --> 01:35:31.739 trans woman so all these different touch 01:35:31.739 --> 01:35:34.320 points with more language and then we 01:35:34.320 --> 01:35:36.320 can go like okay how do we cross over 01:35:36.320 --> 01:35:39.060 and then I notice that there is less 01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:42.060 tension in the field because we're 01:35:42.060 --> 01:35:44.159 actually actively trying we're not 01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:46.199 assuming we're the same 01:35:46.199 --> 01:35:48.179 we're not we're not we don't have this 01:35:48.179 --> 01:35:49.980 shared 01:35:49.980 --> 01:35:52.260 um justification it's like oh we're all 01:35:52.260 --> 01:35:53.699 the same it's like no we're actually 01:35:53.699 --> 01:35:56.880 let's course correct that assumption 01:35:56.880 --> 01:36:00.060 that starting point and then 01:36:00.060 --> 01:36:02.400 and then from there we can we can go 01:36:02.400 --> 01:36:04.440 back to saying that we're almost the 01:36:04.440 --> 01:36:07.020 same but because we have come so far too 01:36:07.020 --> 01:36:09.480 not noticing that anyway so I'm just 01:36:09.480 --> 01:36:12.000 saying that your course has given me not 01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:13.860 only me but I 01:36:13.860 --> 01:36:16.139 noticed that the language piece with the 01:36:16.139 --> 01:36:18.659 body is just it helps the body actually 01:36:18.659 --> 01:36:22.679 truly because we're language people so 01:36:22.679 --> 01:36:25.020 yeah 01:36:25.020 --> 01:36:27.540 yeah that's beautiful and and then 01:36:27.540 --> 01:36:30.120 notice that the dispositional so it's 01:36:30.120 --> 01:36:33.000 like everything is an inversion so the a 01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:36.000 normal I love that first of all that 01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:39.540 Insight you had that taking the pill for 01:36:39.540 --> 01:36:43.020 a woman is like a man being on a video 01:36:43.020 --> 01:36:45.480 saying it interrupts something extremely 01:36:45.480 --> 01:36:47.280 natural 01:36:47.280 --> 01:36:51.360 um and yet the the the cycle 01:36:51.360 --> 01:36:53.960 the physiology is never 01:36:53.960 --> 01:36:56.340 extermined exterminated so it just 01:36:56.340 --> 01:36:58.620 confuses everything but yeah to 01:36:58.620 --> 01:37:03.179 understand the the female cycle as a a 01:37:03.179 --> 01:37:05.880 rhythm of a dispositional state 01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:08.639 and once you understand that you don't 01:37:08.639 --> 01:37:10.920 have to attach a narrative or an emotion 01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:14.280 to it see because when I grew up like if 01:37:14.280 --> 01:37:16.980 your dispositional state was like that 01:37:16.980 --> 01:37:18.900 and that's not like the standard 01:37:18.900 --> 01:37:21.239 Cosmopolitan self then you have to go 01:37:21.239 --> 01:37:22.980 looking for a reason so maybe it's 01:37:22.980 --> 01:37:24.719 because you yelled at me or because of 01:37:24.719 --> 01:37:27.320 this or because of that versus 01:37:27.320 --> 01:37:31.020 the inversion which is this is I can 01:37:31.020 --> 01:37:34.080 watch you know the Gap exercise to be 01:37:34.080 --> 01:37:35.940 aware of your dispositional states to be 01:37:35.940 --> 01:37:38.880 surprised it's always moving 01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:42.000 um and and 01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:43.800 um and that it has a natural 01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:47.100 intelligence to it and there's it's a 01:37:47.100 --> 01:37:48.960 resource so 01:37:48.960 --> 01:37:49.560 um 01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:51.679 um 01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:54.480 and that a lot of the frustration is 01:37:54.480 --> 01:37:57.780 because there's a mismatch between that 01:37:57.780 --> 01:38:00.780 kind of time and Cosmopolitan time let's 01:38:00.780 --> 01:38:02.460 say you know in the 01:38:02.460 --> 01:38:04.739 even if you don't have a job you have to 01:38:04.739 --> 01:38:07.380 send your kids in this time stamps and 01:38:07.380 --> 01:38:09.120 there's this and there's that and 01:38:09.120 --> 01:38:11.659 everything is 01:38:11.659 --> 01:38:14.699 that temporal order is artificial 01:38:14.699 --> 01:38:17.460 relative to 01:38:17.460 --> 01:38:21.120 the steeper temporal order so 01:38:21.120 --> 01:38:22.620 um 01:38:22.620 --> 01:38:24.840 and you don't have to justify the fact 01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:27.420 that the mismatch is there you have to 01:38:27.420 --> 01:38:29.460 learn to 01:38:29.460 --> 01:38:31.580 um 01:38:31.800 --> 01:38:35.460 to work with it obviously 01:38:35.460 --> 01:38:36.179 um 01:38:36.179 --> 01:38:39.780 but you don't have to justify why the 01:38:39.780 --> 01:38:43.880 mismatch is there the mismatch is there 01:38:44.340 --> 01:38:47.000 foreign 01:39:02.719 --> 01:39:05.760 stops being internalized as 01:39:05.760 --> 01:39:06.719 um 01:39:06.719 --> 01:39:10.620 a pathology like oh I you know I oh I'm 01:39:10.620 --> 01:39:12.179 always like that I'm like well you're 01:39:12.179 --> 01:39:13.860 experiencing you're a dispositional 01:39:13.860 --> 01:39:16.320 state actually wasn't supposed to be one 01:39:16.320 --> 01:39:19.260 right and and it has very different 01:39:19.260 --> 01:39:22.139 flavors to it it's not noticing and and 01:39:22.139 --> 01:39:24.780 then they go like oh someone so the 01:39:24.780 --> 01:39:27.360 frame of just I'm not crazy can release 01:39:27.360 --> 01:39:29.760 so much energy from the system just 01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:31.620 because of this mismatch for the 01:39:31.620 --> 01:39:34.920 Cosmopolitan yeah it's probably similar 01:39:34.920 --> 01:39:37.260 to why children have so much problem 01:39:37.260 --> 01:39:40.860 going through puberty now same reason 01:39:40.860 --> 01:39:43.860 that they don't they don't expect to 01:39:43.860 --> 01:39:46.620 have their bodies feel like that and and 01:39:46.620 --> 01:39:50.580 and they don't expect to have it be such 01:39:50.580 --> 01:39:53.940 a mismatch with external reality that 01:39:53.940 --> 01:39:55.940 tells you 01:39:55.940 --> 01:39:59.159 no the girls that happen to be girlish 01:39:59.159 --> 01:40:01.620 and boys I had to do boyish that's what 01:40:01.620 --> 01:40:03.780 externally and if that's not the case 01:40:03.780 --> 01:40:06.480 then you must not be one of those 01:40:06.480 --> 01:40:10.080 yes exactly it's a confusion it is a 01:40:10.080 --> 01:40:14.400 confusion it is a confusion yeah 01:40:14.400 --> 01:40:17.060 hmm 01:40:21.719 --> 01:40:24.480 I have something to say about 01:40:24.480 --> 01:40:29.239 um the AI discussion 01:40:29.820 --> 01:40:33.780 that we become more machine like 01:40:33.780 --> 01:40:37.139 and lose subjectivity and then the flip 01:40:37.139 --> 01:40:39.360 side of the coin of making the machine 01:40:39.360 --> 01:40:42.420 or human-like 01:40:42.420 --> 01:40:45.860 is either one of those good 01:40:48.620 --> 01:40:51.719 yeah I mean okay 01:40:51.719 --> 01:40:55.139 my point is 01:40:55.139 --> 01:40:58.679 I'm still intrigued by 01:40:58.679 --> 01:40:59.840 that 01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:03.360 exterraneous being that you were Bonnie 01:41:03.360 --> 01:41:06.719 laughing with your mother having fallen 01:41:06.719 --> 01:41:08.940 on the floor 01:41:08.940 --> 01:41:11.940 and it seems to me like 01:41:11.940 --> 01:41:16.219 what Eric was pointing at 01:41:16.620 --> 01:41:20.040 there's so much complexity or we are a 01:41:20.040 --> 01:41:22.380 justification systems based on our 01:41:22.380 --> 01:41:24.360 personal 01:41:24.360 --> 01:41:29.280 pleasure or the collective about somehow 01:41:29.280 --> 01:41:34.400 values in the collective domain 01:41:37.020 --> 01:41:40.880 aren't we headed toward 01:41:41.420 --> 01:41:44.159 values we don't even know what the heck 01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:46.940 they are yet 01:41:46.980 --> 01:41:49.860 not the justification for peace because 01:41:49.860 --> 01:41:53.659 of what Obama said but a justification 01:41:53.659 --> 01:41:57.659 for a value that we're no longer even 01:41:57.659 --> 01:42:02.000 sure what that value might be 01:42:04.400 --> 01:42:08.460 are we open and you said it also Bonnie 01:42:08.460 --> 01:42:10.500 you said we don't know what it's going 01:42:10.500 --> 01:42:12.780 to look like Beyond 01:42:12.780 --> 01:42:15.920 the AI 01:42:18.780 --> 01:42:21.480 and I'm hoping 01:42:21.480 --> 01:42:23.699 I have faith 01:42:23.699 --> 01:42:28.340 that we when we get into November 01:42:30.840 --> 01:42:37.219 we spend we expend energy into 01:42:37.320 --> 01:42:40.199 so what are our values now and what are 01:42:40.199 --> 01:42:42.360 our values we're going to bring into the 01:42:42.360 --> 01:42:46.280 moral animal we're becoming 01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:57.860 more like your horses 01:42:58.380 --> 01:43:00.780 that they feel through the ground and 01:43:00.780 --> 01:43:03.679 they communicate without words and they 01:43:03.679 --> 01:43:09.679 have a life that includes these humans 01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:14.179 you know more something like that 01:43:22.199 --> 01:43:26.699 yeah so you know this is the interesting 01:43:26.699 --> 01:43:28.440 thing 01:43:28.440 --> 01:43:31.860 that I I hear and what you're saying 01:43:31.860 --> 01:43:34.920 is we're saying that humans are becoming 01:43:34.920 --> 01:43:37.380 more machine-like 01:43:37.380 --> 01:43:41.659 perhaps more than machines 01:43:42.540 --> 01:43:46.920 and animals meet like horses they move 01:43:46.920 --> 01:43:50.340 way over here into the human world 01:43:50.340 --> 01:43:53.600 and in reality humans have very very 01:43:53.600 --> 01:43:56.460 little Talent 01:43:56.460 --> 01:43:58.619 to learning the language of other 01:43:58.619 --> 01:43:59.940 species 01:43:59.940 --> 01:44:03.119 the the others the the other animals 01:44:03.119 --> 01:44:06.540 really understand us that pigeons 01:44:06.540 --> 01:44:08.460 understand me more than I understand 01:44:08.460 --> 01:44:12.659 them and so this awareness of how 01:44:12.659 --> 01:44:16.500 ignorant we are uh and how limited we 01:44:16.500 --> 01:44:20.639 are to our own language module models 01:44:20.639 --> 01:44:23.100 um and then of course AI is built around 01:44:23.100 --> 01:44:27.060 our language models and 01:44:27.060 --> 01:44:29.040 um that 01:44:29.040 --> 01:44:32.280 that there's something equal and 01:44:32.280 --> 01:44:34.980 opposite in the animal world the animals 01:44:34.980 --> 01:44:38.119 also move way into our world and 01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:41.340 we have very little capacity 01:44:41.340 --> 01:44:44.460 for empathic projection we called it to 01:44:44.460 --> 01:44:47.400 move into the reality of the other 01:44:47.400 --> 01:44:50.580 beings uh were actually very coarse 01:44:50.580 --> 01:44:53.040 grained and so as we become more and 01:44:53.040 --> 01:44:55.380 more machine like we move even further 01:44:55.380 --> 01:44:58.800 or further away from this whole language 01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:01.760 and communication that's available 01:45:01.760 --> 01:45:04.739 hugely available 01:45:04.739 --> 01:45:09.119 um on the other side is really 01:45:09.119 --> 01:45:11.119 um 01:45:15.300 --> 01:45:18.659 maybe what bodies are starving for and 01:45:18.659 --> 01:45:21.239 that's why they're Like Moths To Flames 01:45:21.239 --> 01:45:24.900 with the AI because they're starting so 01:45:24.900 --> 01:45:27.920 the junk food 01:45:28.199 --> 01:45:30.900 a quick fix or something but 01:45:30.900 --> 01:45:34.020 this is you know in in that 01:45:34.020 --> 01:45:36.719 article I wrote is it tells 01:45:36.719 --> 01:45:39.540 and toward the end it talks about like 01:45:39.540 --> 01:45:41.699 the first time philosophers were freaked 01:45:41.699 --> 01:45:43.560 out about language was because they 01:45:43.560 --> 01:45:46.380 taught the chimpanzees to sign 01:45:46.380 --> 01:45:48.480 did you read that one 01:45:48.480 --> 01:45:51.900 oh so if you read the post is it toast 01:45:51.900 --> 01:45:54.179 it talks about Ai and then it talks 01:45:54.179 --> 01:45:56.940 about Vicki Hearn who was a philosopher 01:45:56.940 --> 01:45:59.520 and a poet at Harvard and an animal 01:45:59.520 --> 01:46:03.360 trainer and she talks so she died a long 01:46:03.360 --> 01:46:06.420 time ago before AI but she she's talking 01:46:06.420 --> 01:46:09.420 about like this hysteria that comes over 01:46:09.420 --> 01:46:12.000 the philosophy Department because they 01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:14.639 had just taught the first two 01:46:14.639 --> 01:46:16.800 chimpanzees how to use American Sign 01:46:16.800 --> 01:46:18.600 Language they raised him up as children 01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:20.280 in human home and they could use 01:46:20.280 --> 01:46:23.420 American Sign Language 01:46:23.520 --> 01:46:25.739 and so because she has a credential 01:46:25.739 --> 01:46:27.840 she's a dog trainer and she's a 01:46:27.840 --> 01:46:29.340 philosopher at Harvard 01:46:29.340 --> 01:46:32.940 she gets a invitation to come into the 01:46:32.940 --> 01:46:36.840 home and meet these two chimpanzees and 01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:39.719 uh there it's at breakfast and she says 01:46:39.719 --> 01:46:41.699 you know 01:46:41.699 --> 01:46:45.600 um the the chimpanzee says you know Coco 01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:50.100 wants fruit Coco wants this in in 01:46:50.100 --> 01:46:52.800 to her it's obvious that communication 01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:54.900 is happening but it's not clear if it's 01:46:54.900 --> 01:46:56.340 communication 01:46:56.340 --> 01:47:00.119 or if the chimpanzees have learned what 01:47:00.119 --> 01:47:01.920 they want and how to get it you know 01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:04.560 language is very weird right 01:47:04.560 --> 01:47:09.060 but then she goes on to say uh but the 01:47:09.060 --> 01:47:12.119 disturbing thing is that Coco and the 01:47:12.119 --> 01:47:14.639 other one they're in cages and when they 01:47:14.639 --> 01:47:16.679 go out for a walk going for a walk 01:47:16.679 --> 01:47:18.360 entails 01:47:18.360 --> 01:47:19.920 uh 01:47:19.920 --> 01:47:21.199 um 01:47:21.199 --> 01:47:24.840 collars and Cattle prods 01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:27.360 because they can sign language but 01:47:27.360 --> 01:47:29.880 they're not trustable because they will 01:47:29.880 --> 01:47:31.500 kill you if they're not in the right 01:47:31.500 --> 01:47:34.139 mood and then says a dog trainer she 01:47:34.139 --> 01:47:36.420 says what I know about dogs is they 01:47:36.420 --> 01:47:39.600 share a common vocabulary which means 01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:42.960 they you can trust them and they trust 01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:45.480 you and when trust is broken 01:47:45.480 --> 01:47:48.540 take it you can build it back and she's 01:47:48.540 --> 01:47:52.400 like that's communication 01:47:52.520 --> 01:47:55.260 not the ability to use the linguistic 01:47:55.260 --> 01:47:56.699 signifiers 01:47:56.699 --> 01:47:59.159 and so yeah I encourage you to read it 01:47:59.159 --> 01:48:01.320 it's called is it toast and 01:48:01.320 --> 01:48:05.400 in the end it's like so when while we're 01:48:05.400 --> 01:48:09.360 playing with AI uh and so she asked this 01:48:09.360 --> 01:48:11.719 question 01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:13.860 um she talks about Camp David these are 01:48:13.860 --> 01:48:16.679 old because she wrote in the 50s but she 01:48:16.679 --> 01:48:18.960 said like this is what the promise of 01:48:18.960 --> 01:48:21.719 Camp David is is that you could you 01:48:21.719 --> 01:48:25.800 could talk yourself through 01:48:25.980 --> 01:48:28.739 killing toward peace but we haven't been 01:48:28.739 --> 01:48:31.800 able actually to prove this yet and and 01:48:31.800 --> 01:48:35.179 so in it ends up it says something like 01:48:35.179 --> 01:48:39.360 so as we're interfacing with AI some of 01:48:39.360 --> 01:48:42.600 us will be good dogs but most of us are 01:48:42.600 --> 01:48:45.600 likely to be chimpanzees 01:48:45.600 --> 01:48:48.480 the mistake that language is happening 01:48:48.480 --> 01:48:51.179 but we're not not developing trust not 01:48:51.179 --> 01:48:53.159 developing character not developing 01:48:53.159 --> 01:48:55.500 social relationships which he says is 01:48:55.500 --> 01:48:57.600 what communication actually is is 01:48:57.600 --> 01:48:59.580 establishing a vocabulary of these 01:48:59.580 --> 01:49:01.080 social skills 01:49:01.080 --> 01:49:04.860 so AI cannot establish the vocabulary of 01:49:04.860 --> 01:49:06.360 social skills 01:49:06.360 --> 01:49:09.540 and in that case it should be in a cage 01:49:09.540 --> 01:49:10.800 so 01:49:10.800 --> 01:49:13.260 um that's the first in the series of the 01:49:13.260 --> 01:49:14.940 articles on AI and the other ones are 01:49:14.940 --> 01:49:16.920 called Agent the agent in this and the 01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:19.320 agent and that so 01:49:19.320 --> 01:49:23.300 um but it's really cool because I I 01:49:23.300 --> 01:49:27.060 excerpt it how like it was really like a 01:49:27.060 --> 01:49:28.860 big thing people were talking about like 01:49:28.860 --> 01:49:31.500 what is what are humans if language if 01:49:31.500 --> 01:49:34.139 chimpanzees consign it was the same kind 01:49:34.139 --> 01:49:36.480 of problem space that people were 01:49:36.480 --> 01:49:39.139 juggling with 01:49:41.900 --> 01:49:44.820 I think I may have read it but I you 01:49:44.820 --> 01:49:46.380 know I can't remember everything yeah 01:49:46.380 --> 01:49:49.500 yeah and it's got a funny name so 01:49:49.500 --> 01:49:50.219 um 01:49:50.219 --> 01:49:52.500 you know part of what I was 01:49:52.500 --> 01:49:54.659 aiming toward 01:49:54.659 --> 01:49:56.100 s 01:49:56.100 --> 01:50:00.600 what is the animal nature that we have 01:50:00.600 --> 01:50:05.400 as humans that allows us to 01:50:05.400 --> 01:50:06.179 um 01:50:06.179 --> 01:50:10.320 be drawn to being a Good Samaritan or 01:50:10.320 --> 01:50:12.900 something like that or what are the 01:50:12.900 --> 01:50:15.320 values that we might 01:50:15.320 --> 01:50:20.280 somehow come to in this day and age 01:50:20.280 --> 01:50:23.040 with all that recognition that you 01:50:23.040 --> 01:50:25.639 talked about 01:50:26.460 --> 01:50:30.780 having been drawn to the machine 01:50:30.780 --> 01:50:33.540 what are the values that are emerging 01:50:33.540 --> 01:50:36.060 now that will 01:50:36.060 --> 01:50:39.060 facilitate 01:50:40.139 --> 01:50:44.719 a more beautiful a more beautiful world 01:50:44.960 --> 01:50:49.560 that's my life yeah so the morale animal 01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:52.320 that there's no animal who could be a 01:50:52.320 --> 01:50:55.260 Good Samaritan in Ivan Eric's terms 01:50:55.260 --> 01:50:57.540 because the Good Samaritan 01:50:57.540 --> 01:51:01.560 your animal nature is disgusted and yes 01:51:01.560 --> 01:51:06.239 and yet you take care of it right so 01:51:06.239 --> 01:51:08.460 um so 01:51:08.460 --> 01:51:11.340 this is the the question of the new 01:51:11.340 --> 01:51:13.980 human is is nature growing a new organ 01:51:13.980 --> 01:51:16.500 which is the moral organ and it's not 01:51:16.500 --> 01:51:19.639 you know it's not yet 01:51:19.639 --> 01:51:23.460 uh uh developed 01:51:23.460 --> 01:51:25.500 um because you're not going to go and 01:51:25.500 --> 01:51:29.699 find those kinds of action Logics in the 01:51:29.699 --> 01:51:31.199 animal kingdom I mean you can find 01:51:31.199 --> 01:51:34.280 exceptions and some sweet stories but 01:51:34.280 --> 01:51:38.520 not intentionally so the Good Samaritan 01:51:38.520 --> 01:51:40.980 would be 01:51:40.980 --> 01:51:42.659 that's why we said it doesn't work 01:51:42.659 --> 01:51:45.840 you're disgusted by the person you're 01:51:45.840 --> 01:51:48.719 going to help and yet 01:51:48.719 --> 01:51:51.600 some other kind of valuation some kind 01:51:51.600 --> 01:51:55.020 of instinct uh Zach Stone calls it a new 01:51:55.020 --> 01:51:57.900 Instinct it's basically a new Instinct 01:51:57.900 --> 01:52:02.280 in nature to help so 01:52:02.280 --> 01:52:04.260 um and that you know we'll talk about 01:52:04.260 --> 01:52:06.360 that in that course I think you might be 01:52:06.360 --> 01:52:10.699 interested in but that's really 01:52:10.760 --> 01:52:14.100 what was remarkable about what illich is 01:52:14.100 --> 01:52:15.840 is saying and that he thought the church 01:52:15.840 --> 01:52:19.139 destroyed because the church just 01:52:19.139 --> 01:52:19.880 um 01:52:19.880 --> 01:52:24.119 corporatized and institutionalized care 01:52:24.119 --> 01:52:26.460 you know so we have hospitals and this 01:52:26.460 --> 01:52:30.719 and that but it gets it it allowed us to 01:52:30.719 --> 01:52:33.420 justify not caring for our neighbors 01:52:33.420 --> 01:52:36.900 because we give money to the taxes to 01:52:36.900 --> 01:52:39.179 have social welfare programs and stuff 01:52:39.179 --> 01:52:42.060 like that so it's it's really 01:52:42.060 --> 01:52:44.520 that is quite radical and when we talk 01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:47.340 about the moral animal 01:52:47.340 --> 01:52:50.040 they will all will truly be out of our 01:52:50.040 --> 01:52:53.520 animal nature or saying that that 01:52:53.520 --> 01:52:56.400 Nature's basing on us 01:52:56.400 --> 01:53:00.000 uh betting on us as the organ of 01:53:00.000 --> 01:53:03.260 the moral instinct 01:53:03.900 --> 01:53:06.080 um 01:53:06.780 --> 01:53:09.000 not that it's separate from nature right 01:53:09.000 --> 01:53:13.020 it's we we realize we are this organ of 01:53:13.020 --> 01:53:15.119 Nature and just like when we talk about 01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:17.340 organs of nature 01:53:17.340 --> 01:53:20.460 um just like in our body when my insulin 01:53:20.460 --> 01:53:23.400 level is out of whack my all my cells 01:53:23.400 --> 01:53:24.960 suffer 01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:27.239 but only my pancreas can do something 01:53:27.239 --> 01:53:28.560 about it 01:53:28.560 --> 01:53:29.820 so 01:53:29.820 --> 01:53:32.100 when the human 01:53:32.100 --> 01:53:34.500 impact on the earth is out of whack 01:53:34.500 --> 01:53:37.860 everybody suffers but only the moral 01:53:37.860 --> 01:53:41.400 animal the moral organ uh can do 01:53:41.400 --> 01:53:42.840 something about it 01:53:42.840 --> 01:53:47.840 and that's the metaphor we'll use 01:53:50.520 --> 01:53:52.199 because you're not going to find it in 01:53:52.199 --> 01:53:56.300 the other aspects of nature 01:54:00.600 --> 01:54:03.900 reminds me of this story of your duck 01:54:03.900 --> 01:54:06.179 oh yeah 01:54:06.179 --> 01:54:08.280 um although some they were picking on 01:54:08.280 --> 01:54:10.199 them the other day and one of the boy 01:54:10.199 --> 01:54:13.139 docs who's quite big his name is pipe 01:54:13.139 --> 01:54:16.139 pipe Penny but it 01:54:16.139 --> 01:54:19.260 he's a boy he he beat on the one that 01:54:19.260 --> 01:54:21.900 was beating on the 01:54:21.900 --> 01:54:22.820 the 01:54:22.820 --> 01:54:25.739 sick one and I thought oh that's kind of 01:54:25.739 --> 01:54:28.280 interesting 01:54:28.320 --> 01:54:29.340 oh 01:54:29.340 --> 01:54:31.630 yeah 01:54:31.630 --> 01:54:33.179 [Music] 01:54:33.179 --> 01:54:35.400 and his and his broken foot is still 01:54:35.400 --> 01:54:37.619 alive like I mean I'm not going to take 01:54:37.619 --> 01:54:40.500 it out of its Little cast but it it has 01:54:40.500 --> 01:54:42.719 tension and which is after three or four 01:54:42.719 --> 01:54:46.380 days mostly they die and it falls off so 01:54:46.380 --> 01:54:48.360 just a little bit of Hope there you can 01:54:48.360 --> 01:54:49.860 get around 01:54:49.860 --> 01:54:53.280 but here's something funny I just want 01:54:53.280 --> 01:54:55.380 to say I think you didn't misunderstand 01:54:55.380 --> 01:54:56.940 me but in case somebody's listening to 01:54:56.940 --> 01:54:59.040 this the reason why we laughed this 01:54:59.040 --> 01:55:02.639 morning at my mom is because yesterday 01:55:02.639 --> 01:55:05.159 the objective situation is she was on 01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:08.040 the couch and she was just going help me 01:55:08.040 --> 01:55:10.199 help me hey and she'd been cuckoo and 01:55:10.199 --> 01:55:13.139 and when I was the objective situation 01:55:13.139 --> 01:55:15.000 today was she was on the floor 01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:17.100 underneath the table and I walked in and 01:55:17.100 --> 01:55:19.440 she's like hi and I'm like what are you 01:55:19.440 --> 01:55:21.300 doing down there you see the difference 01:55:21.300 --> 01:55:24.500 was the whole attitude the whole 01:55:24.500 --> 01:55:27.119 expression of what was that so 01:55:27.119 --> 01:55:29.040 objectively yeah you would think it 01:55:29.040 --> 01:55:31.679 would be much sadder that she's laying 01:55:31.679 --> 01:55:34.199 underneath the table on the floor versus 01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:36.360 on the couch but that's not how it 01:55:36.360 --> 01:55:38.520 that's not how it was that actually was 01:55:38.520 --> 01:55:40.860 right so 01:55:40.860 --> 01:55:42.920 um 01:55:43.080 --> 01:55:45.679 but 01:55:45.840 --> 01:55:48.239 um one thing that did happen two days 01:55:48.239 --> 01:55:51.420 ago with the duck that has a broken leg 01:55:51.420 --> 01:55:53.820 is he's in his own 01:55:53.820 --> 01:55:55.619 he's with the other Ducks now but 01:55:55.619 --> 01:55:57.119 there's like a little fence around it so 01:55:57.119 --> 01:56:00.300 they don't pick on him at night and 01:56:00.300 --> 01:56:03.540 um just before I I left the other day he 01:56:03.540 --> 01:56:04.860 had rolled 01:56:04.860 --> 01:56:07.619 on his back and he couldn't get up 01:56:07.619 --> 01:56:11.280 and I had to help him up and so like 01:56:11.280 --> 01:56:13.440 now that you mention it that was kind of 01:56:13.440 --> 01:56:15.780 like the same situation that it was my 01:56:15.780 --> 01:56:16.980 mom was in 01:56:16.980 --> 01:56:20.159 I mean life is just 01:56:20.159 --> 01:56:22.760 you know 01:56:27.300 --> 01:56:29.639 it's like a box of chocolates that 01:56:29.639 --> 01:56:33.840 sometimes they melt all over there 01:56:33.840 --> 01:56:35.639 yeah 01:56:35.639 --> 01:56:38.179 but 01:56:38.219 --> 01:56:41.119 all is well 01:56:41.880 --> 01:56:44.100 you know you can't ask for more so you 01:56:44.100 --> 01:56:46.260 you know 01:56:46.260 --> 01:56:48.119 it's good for now the duck is good for 01:56:48.119 --> 01:56:50.340 now and tomorrow's another day we don't 01:56:50.340 --> 01:56:53.119 we don't know 01:56:54.320 --> 01:56:57.300 Bonnie thanks for taking my nudge into 01:56:57.300 --> 01:56:59.639 the future of the pop-up School in the 01:56:59.639 --> 01:57:03.300 next few months yeah 01:57:11.599 --> 01:57:14.699 the moral animal is I think there's one 01:57:14.699 --> 01:57:16.860 other after that but it kind of like 01:57:16.860 --> 01:57:19.199 builds up to the moral animal and then 01:57:19.199 --> 01:57:21.300 it has something I think that's a little 01:57:21.300 --> 01:57:25.500 more conceptual individuation and Beyond 01:57:25.500 --> 01:57:28.440 human or the new you yeah the new human 01:57:28.440 --> 01:57:30.360 so the new humans will build on the 01:57:30.360 --> 01:57:33.480 moral animal yeah 01:57:33.480 --> 01:57:36.780 but the moral animals like 01:57:36.780 --> 01:57:39.239 the Pinnacle of the whole year and then 01:57:39.239 --> 01:57:42.800 then yeah 01:57:45.900 --> 01:57:48.780 okay my friends thank you so much it's 01:57:48.780 --> 01:57:52.380 been a great first semester 01:57:52.380 --> 01:57:57.260 summer break use it wisely