# Origin of Cultur 2023 cohorts transcripts ## Cohort 1 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:06.160 don't put your blame on 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.840 me okay welcome everybody I'd like to 00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:13.719 welcome anishka uh we met her in The 00:00:13.719 --> 00:00:16.800 Parallax course she is a forest to be 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:22.080 reckoned with so don't fool around with 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:24.039 her 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.240 um yeah which is I'm great to see her 00:00:27.240 --> 00:00:28.800 here we'll have some late skis coming 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.960 here for a little bit okay 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:36.120 so um adisha is perfectly capable of 00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:39.480 jumping right in uh with the material 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:41.600 and with great questions I don't have a 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:43.840 problem with that sometimes we spend a 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.680 little more time kind of nurturing and 00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:50.680 grooming new people but uh yeah we're 00:00:50.680 --> 00:00:54.039 just gonna wing it and uh we'll be we'll 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:57.480 be good with that um 00:00:57.480 --> 00:01:02.239 so I am going to show you you a very 00:01:02.239 --> 00:01:06.000 very crude drawing that came to me today 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.439 I didn't tidy it up um but just to give 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:14.119 you a sense of what we've been doing 00:01:14.119 --> 00:01:17.720 this year how it lives in my 00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:21.479 imagination um different things that uh 00:01:21.479 --> 00:01:24.200 we've done uh throughout the year and 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:26.720 some of it last year because I really 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:27.799 think 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.520 that we're creating something 00:01:30.520 --> 00:01:36.520 thing um and um it's kind of like those 00:01:36.520 --> 00:01:38.960 stories sometimes you used to see them a 00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:41.720 lot maybe because I'm not on the right 00:01:41.720 --> 00:01:43.360 part of the internet but you'd see these 00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:48.479 stories of uh girls that had babies and 00:01:48.479 --> 00:01:49.960 they didn't know they were pregnant 00:01:49.960 --> 00:01:51.360 right I don't know if these things are 00:01:51.360 --> 00:01:54.840 true but they used to be popular stories 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.680 and it's kind of something like that 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.280 like we've been creating something but 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.399 we don't didn't really know what it is 00:02:01.399 --> 00:02:04.039 that we're creating but it seems to be 00:02:04.039 --> 00:02:07.280 getting more real all the time um and I 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:08.759 find that somewhat 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:14.360 scary uh yeah but um it seems like it 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.560 you know something's happening so I just 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.519 want to give this very 00:02:19.519 --> 00:02:27.879 um um bad rendition of that um and let's 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.560 see okay so can you you see my screen 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.680 it's like a really lousy drawing okay 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:34.640 let's I'm GNA take this and put it out 00:02:34.640 --> 00:02:36.840 here for a second 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:40.239 um come on okay I'm just gonna I'm gonna 00:02:40.239 --> 00:02:43.239 cut it first okay so here's a a really 00:02:43.239 --> 00:02:46.800 bad drawing and what it is is we spent 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.319 most of the Year putting the Mind back 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.440 into the body so that the body envelops 00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:55.159 and includes the mind it doesn't happen 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.720 the other way around although the kinds 00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:00.760 of sentences that the mind is able to 00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:03.200 speak makes it seem like it's the other 00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:07.159 way around um we put the body back into 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:10.640 nature and then I have this kind of like 00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:15.799 uh little organism kind of thing here 00:03:15.799 --> 00:03:20.120 that's hugging or is expressing this 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.480 trust Circle uh which is the center of 00:03:23.480 --> 00:03:26.760 the convivial society and the different 00:03:26.760 --> 00:03:30.920 types of care um so kind of external to 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:33.239 that and then we're going to talk about 00:03:33.239 --> 00:03:35.239 lyric culture and I just reason why I 00:03:35.239 --> 00:03:38.120 drew this is because I wanted to uh make 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.560 the distinction between the convivial 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.840 society which are these kinds of actions 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.720 and so social interactions in lyric 00:03:46.720 --> 00:03:48.879 culture so you could have a convivial 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.159 Society inside a Mythic culture uh you 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:55.200 could have a convivial Society inside a 00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:56.640 more 00:03:56.640 --> 00:03:59.720 uh let's say the Quakers which would be 00:03:59.720 --> 00:04:02.760 more of a conservative or fundamental 00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:07.040 culture so um we're now starting to 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:10.519 identify or imagine lyric culture and I 00:04:10.519 --> 00:04:12.920 just wanted to show you that where it 00:04:12.920 --> 00:04:16.359 exists in my mind at least uh it 00:04:16.359 --> 00:04:19.359 certainly there's many ways to uh 00:04:19.359 --> 00:04:22.040 conceptualize this uh but just to map it 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:23.520 out like that does that make sense like 00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:26.199 how it's different than these and then 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:28.199 you can to think about it you can do 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.840 something like this 00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:33.919 and here's another person um and they 00:04:33.919 --> 00:04:37.880 meet together in the convivial 00:04:37.880 --> 00:04:42.160 Society through this person's you know 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.199 backwards but he's also been and they 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.360 kind of create 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.240 this where nature and nature meets and 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:52.440 then you can do something like I was 00:04:52.440 --> 00:04:56.800 playing around with like where the 00:04:57.039 --> 00:04:59.600 body because it has access to Nature 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.039 nature and this body has access to 00:05:02.039 --> 00:05:06.880 Nature that they coexpress themselves 00:05:06.880 --> 00:05:11.360 together and then you have um then you 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.160 have like the mind and we'll talk about 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.680 this today it has to talk to other Minds 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.400 uh primarily uh can come up through the 00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:22.720 other direction but what we're talking 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.400 about today is primarily culture which 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:28.120 is kind of exogenous right where Minds 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.000 talk to other Minds through 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.319 artifacts like music and language and um 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.560 ritual and uh conversation and then 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.840 lyric culture is born so there's 00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:45.520 different ways to connect this is more 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:49.960 in here is more of an actionable kind of 00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:53.199 way to connect the body connects through 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:54.880 natural systems and then we're going to 00:05:54.880 --> 00:05:56.880 look at culture when we talk about 00:05:56.880 --> 00:06:00.120 culture we're looking at these 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.840 extra mental linguistic symbolic 00:06:03.840 --> 00:06:06.120 representational whether that's music or 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.400 art or uh dance you know when we talk 00:06:09.400 --> 00:06:11.479 about dance a lot of that's down here in 00:06:11.479 --> 00:06:15.960 the body too so um just to understand 00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:17.720 the kind of movement of the different 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.319 territories we're talking about that 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:21.720 does that make sense um now of course 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.639 chopping It Up This Way makes it look 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:25.360 like they're compartmentalized but we 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.560 know it isn't uh but just to frame um 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:30.560 the 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.360 conversation um around lyric 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.240 culture so you could have convivial 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.720 Societies in different kinds of cultures 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.319 or you could have uh the mergence of 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:43.479 lyric 00:06:43.479 --> 00:06:47.919 culture does that make sense some sense 00:06:47.919 --> 00:06:51.560 okay just to kind of map out our 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.360 conversations today um so are there any 00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:00.000 comments on um either the move between 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.560 the or any old comments on origins or 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.960 the move between origins of the body and 00:07:05.960 --> 00:07:10.400 um the uh brief post on culture or just 00:07:10.400 --> 00:07:12.440 uh yeah what's been ruminating in your 00:07:12.440 --> 00:07:18.560 minds just get a sense of um what topics 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:22.360 um we want to go to and then uh we'll 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.479 probably go into a breakout room so 00:07:24.479 --> 00:07:28.919 brief brief uh brief uh check-ins in 00:07:28.919 --> 00:07:33.120 terms of of where this uh where you're 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.759 at with what we've been doing and then 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:37.720 we'll go into breakout 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.599 rooms just a question to start can you 00:07:42.599 --> 00:07:44.599 flesh out a bit what you mean by the 00:07:44.599 --> 00:07:46.759 word convivial I've heard people Define 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.680 this but I I just want to hear your your 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.720 thoughts yeah um you could I think you I 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.039 sent you the the whole class right 00:07:59.039 --> 00:08:01.240 because convivial Society it basically 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.599 is um were you here when we did the 00:08:03.599 --> 00:08:06.000 trust at the center of the four domains 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.759 of care in that social okay it just 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:12.800 means that the basis of 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:17.000 society um is trust networks and then 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.000 there's four domains of care there's 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.000 non-reciprocal 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:24.599 care um there's reciprocal care which is 00:08:24.599 --> 00:08:26.080 like an economy where there's some kind 00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:28.720 of transaction but reciprocal care is 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.120 also you know you could be running a 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.399 little Ledger I you know like with your 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:36.240 husband counting up who's done more for 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.320 whom and so you would see that that 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.519 reciprocal care is probably not doesn't 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.440 match that domain of relationship this 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.399 is a problem a lot of people have then 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.839 you have non-reciprocal care and then 00:08:48.839 --> 00:08:51.480 you have uh in the modern world we have 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:53.680 dis intermediated care which is like a 00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:57.200 platform like Zoom is caring for us 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.360 today but it and we have certain trust 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.200 relationships with it but it's 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:03.680 completely 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:05.480 disintermediated and then the fourth 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:07.440 domain of care is 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.760 mutual deed 00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:13.200 mutuality um which if you have if you 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.600 have non-reciprocal care and you have a 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.320 place then that's called The Commons if 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.240 you have reciprocal 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.160 care and you have a ledger that's called 00:09:24.160 --> 00:09:27.760 an economy if you have disintermediated 00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:30.720 care and a networ that's called a 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.000 platform and then if you have deep 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.560 mutuality and a community that's called 00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:40.240 the congregation so we talked about how 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.040 all those are established in different 00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:44.959 types of trusts and to have a 00:09:44.959 --> 00:09:48.560 functioning Society then you need to 00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:51.279 have an Ecology of those domains of care 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.760 and trust and then the convivial Society 00:09:53.760 --> 00:09:56.160 has to do with also with 00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:59.120 limitations and uh it comes from I an 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.120 illage that at a certain 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.760 point Health Care gets gets better and 00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:04.959 better and then at a certain point 00:10:04.959 --> 00:10:07.480 there's an inflection point becomes that 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:09.680 the medicine makes you sick at a certain 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:12.720 point the economy makes you happier and 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:14.320 then there's an inflection point so the 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.279 convivial Society 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:20.120 is not not Crossing that inflection 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.399 point or having to go back if you think 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.279 about it so those are just ways we 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.160 talked about it there's a lot of other 00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:30.000 ways to talk about it but that's what 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.959 that Circle in there meant that that 00:10:32.959 --> 00:10:36.959 that um those exercises we were 00:10:36.959 --> 00:10:39.720 doing so to basically understand that 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.880 it's it all all convivial all healthy 00:10:42.880 --> 00:10:45.639 societies have to be founded on certain 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:48.200 trusts networks and certain domains of 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.360 care versus how a lot of young people 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.240 are trying to create societies based 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:56.760 upon blockchain and work from a 00:10:56.760 --> 00:10:59.160 disintermediated place as the super 00:10:59.160 --> 00:11:01.600 ordinance structure all the way down 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.800 this would be a critique against against 00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:08.040 that so it's a good question I actually 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:09.800 have a question for Katie she said that 00:11:09.800 --> 00:11:13.560 she had several mini insights uh reading 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:16.399 the post and I was very curious about 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.279 what the nature of some of those 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.160 insights were because I couldn't for the 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:23.560 life of me guess I had a feeling you 00:11:23.560 --> 00:11:27.160 might ask me that and in the nature of 00:11:27.160 --> 00:11:31.440 insights uh I can't remember 00:11:32.079 --> 00:11:33.959 them the 00:11:33.959 --> 00:11:37.360 fleeting ephemeral nature of insights I 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.600 but I think it was an investigation 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:45.279 into it was the piece around language 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.320 and just the the 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.480 noticing how 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:54.320 language 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.120 mediates everything 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.040 um meaning 00:12:00.040 --> 00:12:03.160 I mean like I wrote in the response 00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:05.959 um just in noticing how 00:12:05.959 --> 00:12:08.200 I'm 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.839 perpetually re conditioning and 00:12:11.839 --> 00:12:15.519 reconditioning myself thinking and 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:17.800 language and how that yeah it just 00:12:17.800 --> 00:12:20.720 mediates so much of of my 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:23.240 experience um that 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.040 was not that I haven't known that but 00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:29.360 there was something in uh the effect of 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:33.880 of the writing that 00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:38.480 um well like um Jan what's her name you 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.399 know there was a lot of resonance right 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.480 so I just from that place of like you 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.120 were saying in the origins the last 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:50.360 class um it's like I I intuitively know 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.519 what you're speaking even though I might 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:53.680 not 00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:56.320 have um the 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.680 the I haven't been able to speak it that 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:00.240 way 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.160 does that make sense 00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:16.279 yeah it was resonant with with a hunger 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.399 in 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:23.600 me for a more intimate experience with a 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.760 more dis intermediated 00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:30.760 experience 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.079 with with 00:13:34.079 --> 00:13:38.480 life with you with 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.360 myself you mean dis intimidated by 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.680 language not because you can't really 00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:49.720 disin mediate yourself right your 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:51.360 relationships 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.279 with with nature let's say and you can't 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.759 get out of it so you can't you can't 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:02.759 yeah no no you can't get out of it um no 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:03.959 and even 00:14:03.959 --> 00:14:06.360 like I I went back and read the comment 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:08.800 that I made and I was like what a and I 00:14:08.800 --> 00:14:10.639 wrote meta aware I didn't even know what 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.440 I meant by that it was just sort of in a 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.240 moment I'm like well that's kind of 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.920 like like we can't separate ourselves 00:14:18.920 --> 00:14:23.880 from nature go beyond nature but um I I 00:14:23.880 --> 00:14:25.600 think when I I mean I was writing kind 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.839 of without thinking much so but I I 00:14:28.839 --> 00:14:30.560 think it 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:32.680 was 00:14:32.680 --> 00:14:35.759 um do we get to a place where like we 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:38.440 don't need to use the word nature 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:43.120 anymore like like to um because we have 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.880 renatured ourselves like like the use of 00:14:45.880 --> 00:14:48.000 nature like this is where language is 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:53.040 suspect already separates us and how 00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:55.120 we I 00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:00.680 use that word does that make sense 00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:53.319 yeah Bonnie when you go ahead h no you 00:15:53.319 --> 00:15:56.319 go okay yeah I was just noticing when 00:15:56.319 --> 00:15:59.000 you drew that diagram um the trust 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.759 Network within like between my you know 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:03.319 when there's separation between my body 00:16:03.319 --> 00:16:07.560 and my mind like how my mind often has a 00:16:07.560 --> 00:16:11.360 ledger with my body um and my body 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:12.880 sometimes has a ledger with nature and 00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:15.440 so how there's how those trust networks 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.920 work within the Mind Body and and nature 00:16:17.920 --> 00:16:22.560 as well um and and yeah so that's that 00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:24.639 was sort of that's a new thought coming 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.160 up or new insight just about um where 00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:29.000 there's a ledger Within within that 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:31.199 those 00:16:38.920 --> 00:16:40.880 relationships well maybe that has 00:16:40.880 --> 00:16:43.079 something to do with what I'm sitting 00:16:43.079 --> 00:16:47.360 with uh it's more in the world of 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.120 language 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:54.519 and um you know how the the two 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.480 drawings came 00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.319 together 00:16:59.319 --> 00:17:03.760 as a natural that's a natural 00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:07.240 experience as two people let's say or as 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.199 a horse in a 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.679 person and we use the 00:17:13.679 --> 00:17:16.799 language to 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.280 communicate and I'm sitting 00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.760 with the bit of the 00:17:22.760 --> 00:17:26.319 song after 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:32.160 all after oh this is what we 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.120 have and yes I feel I'm 00:17:36.120 --> 00:17:38.960 pregnant in the popup 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:43.880 School pregnant I know that language has 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.559 only got us this 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.280 far so it was sweet the way 00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:53.120 you 00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:57.080 defined platform and Commons and 00:17:57.080 --> 00:18:00.360 congregation it was sweet how you define 00:18:00.360 --> 00:18:02.840 those words 00:18:02.840 --> 00:18:05.679 clearly and that's only got us so far 00:18:05.679 --> 00:18:11.360 there's more that in my heart I know is 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:14.000 available through language and through 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.559 the natural desire to be intimate like 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.240 Katie talked 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.159 about I think I'm pretty good with 00:18:23.159 --> 00:18:26.760 skilled with English language and it's 00:18:26.760 --> 00:18:30.320 only gotten me this far 00:18:30.679 --> 00:18:34.080 are and I think about my grandchildren 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.400 and where are they going to be with 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.480 language as it is and it 00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:44.520 just it's not 00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:47.840 enough so any that's what's cooking for 00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:50.120 me 00:18:57.320 --> 00:19:00.320 bunnie 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:06.159 I can um jump in and and Echo some of 00:19:06.159 --> 00:19:10.600 that I think the the thing that 00:19:10.600 --> 00:19:15.720 really um lit me up was 00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:18.600 the the the line let's see if I can 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:20.760 remember it where lyric 00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:23.600 culture promotes 00:19:23.600 --> 00:19:28.280 intimacy um uh where theoretic cult 00:19:28.280 --> 00:19:29.799 culture 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.039 promotes and I can't forget what um what 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.520 the rest of that was but it's it's just 00:19:37.520 --> 00:19:40.080 how 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:44.880 um just how clearly that was articulated 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:45.880 just 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:47.400 bringing 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.280 communication 00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:53.480 into into the here and now and naming it 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.320 as something 00:19:55.320 --> 00:19:57.240 that 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.240 um 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.440 is is possible um and 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:05.440 new thank you 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:08.159 Samuel promotes 00:20:08.159 --> 00:20:11.440 literacy yeah and literacy can only get 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.080 us so far as David was 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:28.360 saying your diagram this morning Bonnie 00:20:28.360 --> 00:20:33.240 when you brought those two sides 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:35.520 together brought me back to an 00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:37.799 interaction that I had yesterday with my 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.960 husband which is sort of emblematic of 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.000 many many years of 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.919 interactions where you know I'll have a 00:20:47.919 --> 00:20:49.919 concern and 00:20:49.919 --> 00:20:53.919 his immediate response is he has to fix 00:20:53.919 --> 00:20:56.679 it and educate me like he has to make me 00:20:56.679 --> 00:21:00.520 literate about this this particular 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:03.080 concern 00:21:03.080 --> 00:21:07.760 so in the I've been doing a a project on 00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:10.360 writing on feedback 00:21:10.360 --> 00:21:14.919 and I came to a place of recognizing 00:21:14.919 --> 00:21:19.279 that a lot of times I mistake feedback 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.400 for 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.240 disapproval so I was just sitting with 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.000 and and thinking about feedback like 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.320 it's something that happens when a 00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:29.799 microphone and a speaker are in the 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.679 wrong relationship with each other so 00:21:31.679 --> 00:21:36.480 it's sort of like ww okay I'm getting 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.960 feedback I'm digesting it as 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.480 disapproval I trust this 00:21:47.159 --> 00:21:52.200 person biomarkers are firing in my 00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:56.640 body okay he went to Home Depot I sat 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.120 with it he came back 00:22:00.120 --> 00:22:05.559 and we moved from literacy and education 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.720 to a much deeper sense of 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.679 intimacy just by 00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:15.480 unpacking 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.679 the this place where we both read 00:22:18.679 --> 00:22:22.000 feedback as 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:24.159 disapproval and 00:22:24.159 --> 00:22:27.240 it's in the language it's in the impulse 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.200 it's in the intent mention it's in all 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.159 of it and underneath it is the place 00:22:33.159 --> 00:22:35.039 where that 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.720 diagram lives in 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.600 relationship 00:22:40.600 --> 00:22:43.400 so I think I know I'm pregnant now it's 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:45.760 not going to be a surprise but I don't 00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:48.279 know with 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.960 what 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:20.520 um I'm curious if you 00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:23.679 can like it seems like the word literate 00:23:23.679 --> 00:23:26.360 is holding a lot and if you could kind 00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:29.880 of expand 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.520 on yeah what what all the connotations 00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:37.120 or connections are that you're meaning 00:23:37.120 --> 00:23:40.320 by promoting a culture of 00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:43.840 literacy yeah that's an interesting 00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:45.440 question I mean it would make a great 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.039 breakout question 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.320 um you know like all these words if you 00:23:55.320 --> 00:23:57.480 start to examine them you would actually 00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.679 want to reclaim them too because I I'm 00:23:59.679 --> 00:24:04.200 big at on reading and and I like to use 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.919 language that is less symbolic and more 00:24:06.919 --> 00:24:09.159 literal you know like literally the 00:24:09.159 --> 00:24:10.880 horse knows what you're doing right it's 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.840 not a metaphor so we can use these we we 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:21.320 so the the words are I don't think that 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:24.720 word uh holds up to examination but I 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.240 think the phrase itself the way that if 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:32.039 you think about how much education is 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:35.120 designed in early childhood to promote 00:24:35.120 --> 00:24:39.240 literacy and how important that is for a 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:40.840 culture 00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:45.200 um it's that activity that we want to 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.320 use as saying oh why don't we promote 00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:52.760 Intimacy in the same way so I wouldn't I 00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:55.600 would I don't think it I don't think the 00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:58.440 word it sounds it sounds in the phrase 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.600 that the word literacy is really bad uh 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:03.080 but I don't think that holds up to 00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:07.080 examination it's it's how did uh 00:25:07.080 --> 00:25:09.720 different cultures would promote 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.039 intimacy lyric culture would promote 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:15.320 intimacy the way theoretic culture 00:25:15.320 --> 00:25:17.279 promotes literacy it doesn't mean lyc 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.200 culture wouldn't promote literacy but it 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:21.760 would 00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:24.039 be 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:26.360 uh and I don't want to say obsessed 00:25:26.360 --> 00:25:28.919 because I think I think 00:25:28.919 --> 00:25:31.080 uh modern culture gets way obsessed with 00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:34.159 literacy and then goes Way Beyond the 00:25:34.159 --> 00:25:36.080 fact that kids learn how to read and 00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:37.799 they they can understand things and 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.159 stuff like that but just this notion 00:25:41.159 --> 00:25:44.320 of yeah just just having 00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:48.360 those feeling into what that kind 00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:51.360 of what that kind of culture would be 00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:53.039 like I'm not sure if that's I think 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.720 that's a quote from Jan zi I'm not sure 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:57.360 but even then you can get hung up 00:25:57.360 --> 00:25:59.360 because the word promote is weird do we 00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:03.399 want to promote literacy you know um so 00:26:03.399 --> 00:26:08.880 just so so um just take it for 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:13.840 um this sense of a culture aligned 00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:16.440 around um a 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.520 skill or a feature or a property of the 00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:23.919 human condition that is so important at 00:26:23.919 --> 00:26:26.600 its core to that fun that culture of 00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:28.120 functioning 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:32.760 that it plays that that that level of 00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:35.640 importance and for the lyric culture 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.960 there would be this sense of 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.000 intimacy uh lyric philosophy intimacy 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.640 you know I'm I'm playing off of Jan 00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.960 Wiki's lyric philosophy and I'm I'm 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.360 saying can we play off of that and 00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:51.600 imagine a lyric 00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:56.600 culture did that make sense it's kind 00:26:56.600 --> 00:27:00.480 yeah it doesn't hold up to like 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.000 real 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.159 strict examination because then you get 00:27:05.159 --> 00:27:09.399 too this is bad and that is 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.720 good and then we don't you know what is 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.760 intimacy this is also an interesting 00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:17.760 question 00:27:20.360 --> 00:27:24.120 um in in it's definitely has a biomarker 00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:26.799 let me say that uh it's not just a 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.520 thought or a 00:27:30.520 --> 00:27:32.480 situation 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.279 um and the best way we Define it is when 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.440 something of the other has ingressed 00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:42.640 into you so you are you now identify 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.840 with that so your subjectivity includes 00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:47.320 something of the 00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:53.799 other um and that's the definition of 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.519 intimacy 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.840 you know it's like when 00:28:12.840 --> 00:28:15.640 you're relationship with your husband is 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:17.640 volatile or you're mad at your husband 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.919 it's so intimate it's like you're mad at 00:28:19.919 --> 00:28:21.960 yourself it's different like if you're 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.559 mad at your neighbor you know what an 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:27.840 idiot blah blah blah but but the the you 00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:30.120 can 00:28:32.840 --> 00:28:35.440 tell the mechanism is different when 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:38.399 you're intimate with 00:28:41.159 --> 00:28:43.120 somebody yeah and I think it informs 00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:44.880 your language to the language that you 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.919 use so then that 00:28:46.919 --> 00:28:49.039 intimacy brings about a different kind 00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:52.039 of language um then when you're not 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:53.919 intimate with something yeah and the 00:28:53.919 --> 00:28:55.799 healing process is the same like if 00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:59.080 you're really angry at 00:28:59.080 --> 00:29:01.640 yourself and you're bad to 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.600 yourself and you're suffering inside 00:29:05.600 --> 00:29:06.720 your own 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.320 bones there's a sense in which you can't 00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:12.360 get out of your B you know like your 00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:16.039 body aches and you're eating poorly you 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.519 can't you can't just step aside and put 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.080 this other body on and intimate 00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:23.720 relationships are the same thing they 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.320 have the same entanglement such that 00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:33.039 the healing process or the or the the 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.720 process of setting things right have a 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.519 lot to do with the kinds of inter 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.960 subjective in intrasubjective uh 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:46.200 processes you have to do to 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.399 uh I want to say excoriate but I don't 00:29:49.399 --> 00:29:51.240 know what that word means is excoriate 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.200 the right 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:55.000 word 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:58.399 um yeah versus is if you're in a 00:29:58.399 --> 00:30:00.399 transactional relationship and 00:30:00.399 --> 00:30:02.880 something's broken down or you're 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.200 mad the practices are different because 00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.039 that person 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.559 or that company or whatever it's not 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:13.159 inside you right in a in a certain 00:30:13.159 --> 00:30:16.159 identification 00:30:19.360 --> 00:30:22.399 way okay let's go into a breakout uh 00:30:22.399 --> 00:30:25.159 room for 25 00:30:25.159 --> 00:30:30.559 minutes and um the you can talk about 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.720 anything as usually is the case 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:38.039 anyways no matter how hard I try to 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.360 control what you're talking 00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:45.000 about you people always get it 00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:50.360 wrong um but to see the conversation 00:30:50.360 --> 00:30:53.480 should you like to attempt to talk about 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:57.279 it is something that really struck me in 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:01.720 in uh reading um doing some of my 00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:07.320 reading um of uh door for his first 00:31:07.320 --> 00:31:10.440 name uh so I bought this book for this 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.600 module and 90 and it's a great title 00:31:12.600 --> 00:31:14.600 Landscapes of collectivity and the life 00:31:14.600 --> 00:31:18.360 sciences and most of the book is 00:31:18.360 --> 00:31:20.760 lousy um it's either stuff you already 00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:24.159 know or it's got math in 00:31:24.159 --> 00:31:27.840 it um but this little article by this 00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:30.720 guy uh 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.320 door when he comes right out and says 00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:34.880 it's not like and I think maybe this is 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:36.440 what happen to ktie T I'm going to 00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.240 project all over experience it's not 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.000 like we didn't know it before but he 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.519 comes right out and says language evolve 00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:45.880 to talk to your 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.120 imagination now I can make a case that 00:31:48.120 --> 00:31:51.080 it does other things but we understand 00:31:51.080 --> 00:31:54.720 what he's but it also does this too and 00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:56.799 so for example when I showed you that 00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.320 draw and I talked that I was just my 00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:01.600 imagination talking to your imagination 00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:06.519 we have to run we have to run uh shared 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.600 simulations or when um zult asked that 00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:11.440 question about the convivial society 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.000 that was a lot to go through without 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.720 having a conversation and somehow he's 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:19.720 got this simulation that I'm trying to 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.000 you know and it's this interesting 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.760 nature of 00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:28.840 language that um what I liked about what 00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:32.799 he said was often we suspect that 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.679 language is doing this but then we hedge 00:32:34.679 --> 00:32:37.200 our bets but he comes right out and says 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.639 this is in the human system this is what 00:32:39.639 --> 00:32:41.440 language is evolved to do instead of 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:43.320 taking someone to 00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:45.639 Africa you know if you're an immigrant 00:32:45.639 --> 00:32:49.440 or you're here for a conference they try 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.880 to get your imagination to imagine 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:58.960 Africa um and then he says 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.080 because um and and then he says and then 00:33:02.080 --> 00:33:03.639 I want you to talk about this and we'll 00:33:03.639 --> 00:33:06.519 come back and maybe expound on it he 00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.480 says what happens at that point is 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.639 experience doesn't go 00:33:11.639 --> 00:33:14.320 away but the major function of 00:33:14.320 --> 00:33:17.880 experience is experiential trust since I 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.039 know you're trying to get me to imagine 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.720 something I'm still experiencing this 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.799 engagement in real time in real life but 00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:32.679 I have to figure out if I trust you or 00:33:32.679 --> 00:33:37.360 not once I understand you're 00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.240 just shap trying to shape my 00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.440 imagination then and I can't resort to 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:46.679 going to Africa I mean if I had tried to 00:33:46.679 --> 00:33:50.360 resort to um verifying everything that 00:33:50.360 --> 00:33:52.120 people told me and that I got on social 00:33:52.120 --> 00:33:54.960 media I can't do that so what is the 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.240 experience of trust 00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.639 in this situation the fact that we are 00:34:00.639 --> 00:34:02.080 in this 00:34:02.080 --> 00:34:05.720 situation uh what is the your experience 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:06.639 of 00:34:06.639 --> 00:34:09.280 trust uh how do 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.159 you how do you yeah how do you how does 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.679 it function in your life how do you have 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.079 to come to terms with it in terms of 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:22.079 trusting these 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:24.879 imaginary 00:34:24.879 --> 00:34:27.879 uh worlds and 00:34:27.879 --> 00:34:30.800 um and and and now let me just bring it 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.079 back to something very simple that we 00:34:33.079 --> 00:34:37.079 said earlier in the 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:42.280 um period between uh Daoism and in early 00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.800 dosm in Chan Buddhism in China and 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.599 confus Confucianism there was a there 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.800 was a conversation or debate around uh 00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:58.280 wisdom called sagehood and 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.240 the dais said the the confucious said 00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:05.560 wisdom is like a beautifully designed 00:35:05.560 --> 00:35:08.359 irrigation system because it takes the 00:35:08.359 --> 00:35:12.839 Wild Water and it forms it and shapes it 00:35:12.839 --> 00:35:15.720 for society and the Dost would say are 00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:20.040 you kidding wisdom is the Wild Water and 00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:24.880 it gets polluted by culture and what we 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:28.040 notice is that it's very important 00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:30.880 which meta they both are just metaphors 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.320 right the whole basis of the argument is 00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:35.160 an appeal to which metaphor are you 00:35:35.160 --> 00:35:36.599 going to 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:41.680 use and so again this shows you it's can 00:35:41.680 --> 00:35:45.160 you IM what do you imagine when you 00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:48.040 imagine the Wild Water do you imagine 00:35:48.040 --> 00:35:51.079 tsunamis and cattle drowning and right 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:53.119 or do you imagine something else and 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.359 when you when someone places in your 00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:59.160 imagination cultivate at 00:35:59.160 --> 00:36:02.520 irrigation what assembles along the 00:36:02.520 --> 00:36:05.319 imagination and so this is the terrain 00:36:05.319 --> 00:36:09.480 of language and metaphor and working 00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:11.440 with each other's to shape each other's 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:13.960 imagination such that 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.800 something is actually born something 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.640 shared is born and placed in the world 00:36:19.640 --> 00:36:22.280 through real you know real actions the 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:24.040 way you build your house the way you 00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:26.520 raise your kids blah blah blah okay so 00:36:26.520 --> 00:36:31.880 that's the um prompt and let it take you 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:35.960 anywhere um and I'm going to give you 25 00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.599 minutes 00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.400 uh and let me see if I can do 00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:49.920 this okay 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.560 create 00:36:52.560 --> 00:36:55.560 options 00:36:55.680 --> 00:36:57.960 25 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.720 and hold 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.880 on and enjoy your conversation and enjoy 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.079 your 00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.599 company 00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:55.440 hey what do we 00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.599 got 00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:36.800 so I can I can share 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:40.440 something I I realized in this exercise 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:41.400 that I 00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:45.319 had one of the reasons why the the our I 00:38:45.319 --> 00:38:46.760 call it homework reading one of the 00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:48.680 reasons why the homework reading kind of 00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:52.319 like shook me is I realized that I I'd 00:38:52.319 --> 00:38:54.880 never really BR brought any conscious 00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:57.800 awareness to the relationship between 00:38:57.800 --> 00:38:59.839 I've thought about it a lot but the 00:38:59.839 --> 00:39:01.720 relationship between language and 00:39:01.720 --> 00:39:05.680 intimacy imagination and 00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:09.920 trust and how 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.200 I I live in relationship to the world 00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:17.240 that I take all that that whole elegant 00:39:17.240 --> 00:39:19.640 process I take it for 00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:23.319 granted there just something that is 00:39:23.319 --> 00:39:26.839 seems to be in place in a way that 00:39:26.839 --> 00:39:29.839 allows me to 00:39:29.839 --> 00:39:32.680 navigate the Elegance of 00:39:32.680 --> 00:39:36.280 that in a way 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.160 that never asked me to bring my 00:39:39.160 --> 00:39:42.119 attention to it in this 00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:47.920 way and and when I started to do that I 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.000 I I I think this is just my default and 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.839 so I'm I'm I'm having a I'm not I'm not 00:39:54.839 --> 00:39:57.680 completely trusting it 00:39:57.680 --> 00:39:59.680 but but the default 00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:02.119 says well that's really interesting 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:05.560 because if that's 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.319 true we can do any thing we want 00:40:10.319 --> 00:40:12.920 with those 00:40:14.520 --> 00:40:16.770 structures and if and if that's 00:40:16.770 --> 00:40:19.980 [Music] 00:40:20.359 --> 00:40:22.960 true 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:26.880 there's an opportunity to 00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:33.000 embrace the mechanics in such a way to 00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:38.079 where maybe the next World on the edge 00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:43.400 of In Between Worlds has a chance of 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:46.400 unfolding but that's all that's my 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:48.960 default move so I don't even know if 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:53.359 that's where that rests in any of 00:40:55.319 --> 00:40:58.319 this 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:17.880 yeah this morning um Kevin and I were 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.960 talking about the video Bonnie Bonnie 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.359 put into the article I I confess I 00:41:22.359 --> 00:41:23.720 didn't watch it but he was explaining it 00:41:23.720 --> 00:41:26.960 to me or sharing his perspective on it 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.640 about how these worms can change their 00:41:28.640 --> 00:41:32.319 DNA you know and 00:41:32.319 --> 00:41:34.599 um it was just really wonderful to 00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:36.440 imagine that being a 00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:40.119 possibility um being able to you know 00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:41.800 whether or not that could happen in the 00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.119 future there's something powerful about 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.960 um having the desire to imagine that 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.680 like just using um what what it's like 00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:55.800 the merging of what is real which those 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:58.079 those worms are demonstrating this as 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.000 possible and then 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.440 um I find imagination to be really 00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:07.920 helpful for me in um in creating a 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.880 future in a 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.319 way well I'll just 00:42:24.319 --> 00:42:28.160 um sweetly sh 00:42:30.160 --> 00:42:34.640 back that video indicated 00:42:34.640 --> 00:42:37.920 that the 00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.480 collective has the potential 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.559 to create random 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:50.680 action not causal 00:42:50.680 --> 00:42:54.680 action and so what Ry shared I felt like 00:42:54.680 --> 00:42:57.000 he was Santa Claus here in in 00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:59.720 October kind of like a 00:42:59.720 --> 00:43:03.520 gift through his default and through his 00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:06.280 consciousness of the elegant nature of 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:08.839 how we 00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.119 just 00:43:19.359 --> 00:43:22.599 flow so I don't know if it's if it's 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:24.960 default but it's yearning for me for 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.079 that kind of random 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:33.599 potential for all of 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:52.559 us I I don't I hope this follows but 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.440 just thinking about those nors for 00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:56.280 anyone who didn't see the video like a 00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:59.200 pinaria in a barium solution their head 00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:00.280 will 00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.559 disintegrate and then they'll grow a new 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:05.319 head and the and the now they're resist 00:44:05.319 --> 00:44:07.079 they can live with barium and so they're 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:08.559 they're 00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:10.880 adapting my understanding through 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.720 through the gift of life to be able to 00:44:14.720 --> 00:44:16.640 give them the ability to survive and 00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:19.079 adapt to this change of situation and I 00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:22.040 woke up this morning like thinking about 00:44:22.040 --> 00:44:23.800 a grief Workshop that I'm trying to put 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:25.720 together and like understanding like 00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:27.480 this you know you feel like you've lost 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.079 your head in this horrible time but 00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.960 you're going to grow another head but 00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:34.200 then after David is like is it useful to 00:44:34.200 --> 00:44:36.480 know that you're going to grow another 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.040 head or is 00:44:38.040 --> 00:44:41.040 it is there something in the not knowing 00:44:41.040 --> 00:44:43.200 right was just like and like that maybe 00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:45.319 just knowing that you have the potential 00:44:45.319 --> 00:44:47.480 to grow another head I don't I don't 00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:49.760 know so so anyway I think I'm just 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.680 really like with the trust part 00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:56.160 like the surrender is important to that 00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:58.520 and not knowing there's not certainty I 00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:00.240 don't know I'm just really like 00:45:00.240 --> 00:45:02.559 wondering what what are the what's the 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:05.839 balance of the ingredients 00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:19.800 there I think think this follows somehow 00:45:22.240 --> 00:45:27.559 but I I I I get like how mimetic 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.319 communication then gave rise 00:45:30.319 --> 00:45:34.000 to language to share the 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.640 imaginal but I think then then like 00:45:36.640 --> 00:45:38.839 secondary to that there's the language 00:45:38.839 --> 00:45:41.359 itself there's a specific language 00:45:41.359 --> 00:45:42.520 English 00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:47.960 language versus Hy language Chinese 00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:50.079 pictographs um and that's where some of 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:51.599 my question is 00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.440 like if we're growing a new head if we 00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.880 know we're growing a new head 00:45:58.319 --> 00:46:00.839 um like how is the English language 00:46:00.839 --> 00:46:02.720 already 00:46:02.720 --> 00:46:04.640 suspect 00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:07.040 um and do we 00:46:07.040 --> 00:46:13.920 need lyric culture to break the trance 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.599 of um the 00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:18.720 separative nature I mean that's part of 00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:20.680 what I was exploring after 00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:26.400 I read the homework piece was how 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.839 as I think in the English language is it 00:46:28.839 --> 00:46:31.599 separating me from how is it pulling 00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.760 my body back out of Nature and my mind 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:36.160 back out of my 00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:39.720 body um and so is the use of 00:46:39.720 --> 00:46:42.920 lyric philosophy is lyric culture yes 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:45.520 I'm like breaking that trance is that 00:46:45.520 --> 00:46:48.040 why poetry is important like using the 00:46:48.040 --> 00:46:51.240 tool of the master 00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:54.800 to to um Break 00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:57.800 Free 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:51.160 I would say 00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:53.760 that I don't know if we need but I 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:57.079 believe it's possible to 00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:01.800 to stay intimate or attuned to a life 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:05.000 force or intimate with something that is 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.640 uh more 00:48:07.640 --> 00:48:12.160 essential for me language is not that 00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:14.760 essential and I don't even know if it's 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.079 not language that it's this one that is 00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:20.000 exploding our 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.960 head so maybe it's not about growing new 00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:27.559 head but peeling more and more layers 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:29.960 away that 00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:33.680 prove that are kind 00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:37.040 of not 00:48:37.040 --> 00:48:40.480 allowing to stay ATT 00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.880 tuned to do the rest everything to this 00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:48.319 what's 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.599 essential 00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:10.960 riffing off of what you just wrote bunny 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:12.760 but I imagine if we don't grow back a 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:15.880 new head we will get much better at 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:18.640 thinking through our 00:49:24.520 --> 00:49:27.520 bodies 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:32.119 yeah so I mean there so much here the 00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:34.440 also the cool thing about the barium 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.040 experiment is that these worms are not 00:49:38.040 --> 00:49:41.240 exposed to Barium in the wild so what 00:49:41.240 --> 00:49:46.200 was it in you know their DNA that they 00:49:46.200 --> 00:49:48.040 they didn't need to have a they did not 00:49:48.040 --> 00:49:50.520 need to have a past record to have a 00:49:50.520 --> 00:49:52.079 novel 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.160 mutation and this is in the concrete uh 00:49:55.160 --> 00:49:59.480 physical IAL world so um this gives us 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:01.760 um you know it's a metaphor but it's 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:04.440 it's in it's 00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.240 inspirational um 00:50:07.240 --> 00:50:09.799 so the move I want to make here I made 00:50:09.799 --> 00:50:12.760 I've made it a lot of times um and I 00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:17.440 think it's implicit in what Rey said so 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:20.280 the nature of culture has something to 00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.920 do with this language intimacy 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:27.359 imagination and Trust 00:50:27.359 --> 00:50:33.040 and this is part of life itself um 00:50:33.040 --> 00:50:36.880 especially if you let language mean 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:40.400 animal language or plant language uh you 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:45.599 can extend these metaphors way down into 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.960 uh the animal and plant kingdom and 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.240 certain microorganisms and stuff like 00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:53.720 the way does the bee trust a certain 00:50:53.720 --> 00:50:57.000 flower or does the flower you know these 00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.960 these can these things can be extended 00:50:59.960 --> 00:51:03.240 quantitively uh down into nature and so 00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:05.839 the nature of the way these things work 00:51:05.839 --> 00:51:08.880 as Ry was saying 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.480 um oh yeah so that's a good point uh 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.240 there's something yeah the other parts 00:51:15.240 --> 00:51:18.359 of their body already knew how to yeah 00:51:18.359 --> 00:51:19.839 that's an I don't thought about that 00:51:19.839 --> 00:51:22.359 anyways moving on so there's something 00:51:22.359 --> 00:51:24.240 about the way these things work 00:51:24.240 --> 00:51:26.720 implicitly that's very healthy as very 00:51:26.720 --> 00:51:29.000 said I didn't I took them for granted 00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:30.920 but I know that they work together we 00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:32.319 don't have to 00:51:32.319 --> 00:51:35.559 problematize that um if I become 00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.119 intimate with you and I trust you and we 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:41.000 share imagination and we use language 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.680 it's also something magical that 00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:47.960 happens so the nature are our natural 00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:51.920 state to evolve culture in This Way 00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:54.880 Comes deep from the animal world and 00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:59.079 probably deep still and we can trust 00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.520 that but the kind of language that we 00:52:02.520 --> 00:52:06.839 have today and the kinds of 00:52:06.839 --> 00:52:11.599 imaginary uh worlds that we're 00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:14.319 conditioned to are quite 00:52:14.319 --> 00:52:16.599 impoverished and and actually they're 00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:18.280 quite constrained to you know like 00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:20.440 neoliberal capitalism or The Ledger The 00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:22.720 Ledger is always there why is The Ledger 00:52:22.720 --> 00:52:28.319 always there um and and so the the 00:52:28.319 --> 00:52:32.280 there's many people who have consciously 00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.000 explored the way 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:38.960 these structures or processes live in 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:40.920 culture and they've consciously 00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:43.440 exploited 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.960 them they know exactly how to weaponize 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:50.240 language they know exactly how to keep 00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:53.040 people so isolated that they're starving 00:52:53.040 --> 00:52:55.640 for intimacy they know exactly how to 00:52:55.640 --> 00:53:00.240 inate you with Virtual Worlds uh 00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:02.799 especially when you're young and your 00:53:02.799 --> 00:53:06.079 identity is being uh 00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:09.200 developed um if it's different than if 00:53:09.200 --> 00:53:10.839 you're young and you're out in nature 00:53:10.839 --> 00:53:13.040 and you developing your 00:53:13.040 --> 00:53:16.200 identity in a world in which your 00:53:16.200 --> 00:53:19.119 imagination Soares with the real reality 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:20.839 of Nature and it can go wherever it 00:53:20.839 --> 00:53:25.200 wants versus you're a child and your SC 00:53:25.200 --> 00:53:28.319 going through me heavily mediated 00:53:28.319 --> 00:53:31.440 Virtual Worlds this changes this this is 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.599 a profound impact 00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.400 on constraining the identities or the 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.640 kind of subjectivities that you will 00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:41.520 have and then who do you trust you know 00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:43.200 what are what are the ways in which we 00:53:43.200 --> 00:53:47.400 trust so it's not that 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:49.280 the the 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:53.640 living system of The Human Condition is 00:53:53.640 --> 00:53:56.240 broken it's actually working it's just 00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.799 been 00:53:57.799 --> 00:54:01.119 exploited um in in in in intentional 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:05.200 ways and so one of the I love what Ray 00:54:05.200 --> 00:54:07.880 said once you start to look at it you 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:11.240 you know it's like you can see what the 00:54:11.240 --> 00:54:13.160 you know if you watch the century of the 00:54:13.160 --> 00:54:14.960 self you can see what the advertisers 00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.599 and the propagandists felt like wow we 00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.839 can do anything with this beautiful 00:54:20.839 --> 00:54:25.520 system and um you you you see that 00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:27.480 there's 00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:30.680 there's um potential there now having 00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:32.960 said that we also honor the system we 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:35.200 want don't want to distort it or control 00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:38.640 it uh outside of its normal healthy 00:54:38.640 --> 00:54:43.160 habit habits we want to 00:54:43.160 --> 00:54:46.240 use you know as I think annia said we 00:54:46.240 --> 00:54:48.319 start with intimacy can I be intimate 00:54:48.319 --> 00:54:50.599 with is something essential and then can 00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:53.799 I let the body sing in a new 00:54:53.799 --> 00:54:57.440 vernacular then I can trust I can trust 00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:59.440 what comes out of my own mouth not 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:02.480 because I've heavily edited it and 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.359 thought about it a lot but because I'm 00:55:04.359 --> 00:55:06.480 doing the work at this deeper intimate 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:09.839 level so you create this this vernacular 00:55:09.839 --> 00:55:11.200 that comes 00:55:11.200 --> 00:55:15.559 from uh this deep this intimacy with 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:17.520 nature 00:55:17.520 --> 00:55:21.039 um unfortunately or fortunately I tend 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:25.079 to agree that we have to recreate the 00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:27.960 intimacy at the level of 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:30.720 nature because there's not there's not a 00:55:30.720 --> 00:55:33.559 lot of soil in The Human 00:55:33.559 --> 00:55:37.280 Condition uh to depend upon right 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:41.039 now um and gradually we build up some 00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:47.799 Top Soil of trust between humans but 00:55:47.799 --> 00:55:52.079 um right now it seems like we have to 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:56.400 keep Excavating into the deeper 00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:58.559 the deeper deeper layers of soil you 00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.319 know where the worms are working their 00:56:00.319 --> 00:56:02.839 casings and stuff we have to be 00:56:02.839 --> 00:56:06.119 wormlike um in that 00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:09.200 way now having said that if we could 00:56:09.200 --> 00:56:11.480 establish connection there than the 00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:13.880 flourishing of the language thing that 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:17.000 we are uh who knows 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:19.119 what you know whether it's lyric 00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.720 philosophy or lyric culture who knows 00:56:21.720 --> 00:56:26.920 what is possible but um 00:56:29.359 --> 00:56:31.799 there's always a kind of 00:56:31.799 --> 00:56:33.319 recursive 00:56:33.319 --> 00:56:36.720 um a recursive process in the vertical 00:56:36.720 --> 00:56:39.680 stack and that 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:42.640 is the higher you want to go the more 00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:44.760 sophisticated The 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.119 Imaginarium the deeper your roots need 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:49.160 to be in order to support that without 00:56:49.160 --> 00:56:52.079 it floating around in IR reality the way 00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.880 it 00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.520 does 00:56:55.520 --> 00:56:58.400 this is the problem with what we 00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:00.880 criticize other people who have this 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:02.839 notion of the stack and they say 00:57:02.839 --> 00:57:05.200 spirituality is vertical the vertical 00:57:05.200 --> 00:57:07.079 Dimension but they only mean 00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:10.319 up it's like saying the horizontal only 00:57:10.319 --> 00:57:13.520 means left the vertical Dimension means 00:57:13.520 --> 00:57:15.880 up and down and higher and then deep you 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:18.880 got to dig deeper to go higher you get 00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:20.960 you got to be intimate with deeper level 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:22.680 layers as young said you have to get 00:57:22.680 --> 00:57:24.359 intimate with deeper layers of the 00:57:24.359 --> 00:57:26.640 psyche until at bottom you just there's 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:28.240 the world and then you have to be 00:57:28.240 --> 00:57:29.799 intimate with the 00:57:29.799 --> 00:57:35.240 world so this would be also conate with 00:57:35.240 --> 00:57:37.440 lyric philosophy which 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:41.359 is you learn more about the universal 00:57:41.359 --> 00:57:43.319 Reality by becoming more and more 00:57:43.319 --> 00:57:45.480 intimate with the 00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.920 particular 00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.440 um you learn more and more about 00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.359 timelessness by spending all your time 00:57:53.359 --> 00:57:57.520 you know 30 40 years was devoted to to 00:57:57.520 --> 00:58:01.839 something you know 00:58:03.839 --> 00:58:07.480 uh this combination of what you reach 00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:08.440 for 00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:13.799 higher is always made dependent on 00:58:13.799 --> 00:58:17.359 and possible made possible 00:58:17.359 --> 00:58:21.039 by the deeper 00:58:21.319 --> 00:58:23.640 intimacy does that make sense or that's 00:58:23.640 --> 00:58:26.720 where I go with it 00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:52.200 um I don't know if you defined it 00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:54.319 already but for me it seems that the 00:58:54.319 --> 00:58:57.799 definition of language what what does it 00:58:57.799 --> 00:59:01.000 all include or what different kinds of 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:03.720 languages are they and are we talking 00:59:03.720 --> 00:59:06.880 only about the spoken one and the 00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:08.960 different language because for me 00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:10.599 language 00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:13.839 widely taken there are so there are all 00:59:13.839 --> 00:59:17.200 sorts of communication and cohering and 00:59:17.200 --> 00:59:19.880 synchronizing and exchanging information 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:21.319 so it's also 00:59:21.319 --> 00:59:24.079 ensembles dancing playing and so on so 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.559 for me it would be question if there's 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.720 something wrong with this hegemonies of 00:59:29.720 --> 00:59:33.880 spoken language or English language or 00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:36.640 same as hegemony of sight that we are 00:59:36.640 --> 00:59:38.839 mostly getting Visual and forgetting the 00:59:38.839 --> 00:59:42.160 hapticity and all the other senses that 00:59:42.160 --> 00:59:44.440 maybe it's a question of reopening the 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:47.440 whole variety and the whole spectrum of 00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:49.079 possibilities of 00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:51.960 language and it will naturally turn out 00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:54.880 that they are reconnecting to the nature 00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.359 and to the something because it gets 00:59:57.359 --> 01:00:00.200 because you have you can cross check I 01:00:00.200 --> 01:00:02.119 think there is something in this 01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:06.880 narrowness that it's claustrophobic 01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:10.680 or yeah I mean today we're talking 01:00:10.680 --> 01:00:12.880 mostly about like the kind of language 01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:15.720 that talks to each other's 01:00:15.720 --> 01:00:18.720 imagination um and well one could argue 01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:23.000 that all you know all of them do also so 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:26.960 um um I use that schema the somatic and 01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.720 the gestural you know somatic is 01:00:29.720 --> 01:00:32.640 touching and haptic and gestural is 01:00:32.640 --> 01:00:34.440 dancing and 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:38.359 postures and um we talked about it as 01:00:38.359 --> 01:00:39.720 culture or 01:00:39.720 --> 01:00:42.720 language 01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:50.640 um the L language 01:00:52.319 --> 01:00:55.520 is you know and a certain point what 01:00:55.520 --> 01:00:59.559 we're trying to do here 01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:03.480 is make the distinction between the kind 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.200 of communication that happens within me 01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:08.720 as a compound 01:01:08.720 --> 01:01:10.640 individual and then the kind of 01:01:10.640 --> 01:01:12.319 communication that happens between 01:01:12.319 --> 01:01:13.599 compound 01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.839 individuals now you could actually say 01:01:15.839 --> 01:01:20.400 this is language also but you know we 01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:24.640 cells have their own language um and so 01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:27.240 once when we first started this SE this 01:01:27.240 --> 01:01:28.480 fall 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.839 modules uh we started by saying there's 01:01:30.839 --> 01:01:33.760 so many epistemic constraints because I 01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:36.079 can't imagine all the different 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:37.760 dimensions of communication here and 01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:39.039 then the different dimensions of 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:40.760 communication here across all those 01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:42.760 Stacks you know and then the different 01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:46.799 it's very hard for me to I can feel that 01:01:46.799 --> 01:01:48.799 and I can be with the 01:01:48.799 --> 01:01:51.839 complexity but it's very hard to 01:01:51.839 --> 01:01:56.920 language it right you you to to model it 01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:59.880 in any kind 01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:04.319 of yeah I need so many space-time 01:02:04.319 --> 01:02:06.720 Dimensions to see all of 01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:09.319 this 01:02:09.319 --> 01:02:11.039 interpenetrating 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:15.200 um but I would say here with here so far 01:02:15.200 --> 01:02:18.400 we're talking about this thing that D 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:22.920 said about language speaking to your 01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:26.079 imagination um 01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:28.559 but then there's always experiential 01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:30.880 aspect of it so while I'm speaking to 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:31.720 your 01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:34.839 imagination my gestures and my tone and 01:02:34.839 --> 01:02:38.520 my dancing and my you know my hands are 01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:42.079 dancing there's still this experiential 01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:44.520 element the function of which is to 01:02:44.520 --> 01:02:45.760 build 01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:48.720 trust or because we don't experience 01:02:48.720 --> 01:02:52.079 each other just trying to create 01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.039 fantasies in each other's heads if that 01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:56.400 was true we'd be talking to a psychotic 01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:58.559 you know psychotics like you know 01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:00.359 they're they're aliens you know over 01:03:00.359 --> 01:03:02.920 there and you experience as someone's 01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:05.880 just creating a fantasy in your head but 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:09.200 when we are doing that and we call it 01:03:09.200 --> 01:03:11.720 language that's because these 01:03:11.720 --> 01:03:14.079 extracurricular these 01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.079 polyphasic communication things are 01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:20.039 happening where it's grounded in trust 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.240 or else we just it'd be so transparent 01:03:22.240 --> 01:03:26.520 to us that someone was 01:03:26.520 --> 01:03:29.960 just trying to create some kind of 01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:33.279 psychotic reality and and in fact there 01:03:33.279 --> 01:03:36.520 are some movies what like you can start 01:03:36.520 --> 01:03:39.839 to feel that like it's just trying to 01:03:39.839 --> 01:03:43.400 like you can feel the manipulation in 01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:46.400 it that's just trying to create I mean 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:48.000 sometimes we think it's funny like if 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:52.039 it's a horror movie uh sometimes we we 01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:56.440 notice the manipulation in it it 01:03:56.440 --> 01:03:58.000 um 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:02.720 but um yeah but we call it we call it 01:04:02.720 --> 01:04:05.200 language 01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:08.200 or 01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:11.680 um yeah like that movie Inception that's 01:04:11.680 --> 01:04:14.000 not you know they're just incepting 01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:16.839 things in people's heads 01:04:16.839 --> 01:04:22.200 versus uh trying to build a shared 01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:25.039 Imaginarium that 01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:28.119 based on on 01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:32.160 trust yeah 01:04:32.160 --> 01:04:35.079 Jessica who okay I think Katie was gonna 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:38.400 go but okay I'll just say my thing um so 01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:41.039 I'm thinking about 01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:44.720 like say an animal that like imitates a 01:04:44.720 --> 01:04:47.240 plant to attract prey like that sort of 01:04:47.240 --> 01:04:49.200 thing like you could imagine like it's 01:04:49.200 --> 01:04:51.440 appealing to the imagination of like 01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:53.319 this that this insect's going to land 01:04:53.319 --> 01:04:55.559 and then it's going to get and so I'm 01:04:55.559 --> 01:04:58.160 I'm kind of thinking about those 01:04:58.160 --> 01:05:01.160 languages and then like deception like 01:05:01.160 --> 01:05:02.920 the I guess the role between like the 01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:04.640 relationship between deception trust and 01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:08.520 and intimacy and yeah what you think 01:05:08.520 --> 01:05:11.599 about that yeah that's a quote from dor 01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:14.559 he said you know and when this explosion 01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:17.599 of these kinds of 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:20.760 metaphorical virtual language capacity 01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:23.839 happens deception explodes right the the 01:05:23.839 --> 01:05:26.319 many ways we can deceive each other and 01:05:26.319 --> 01:05:28.520 again I think 01:05:28.520 --> 01:05:31.680 deception is 01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:36.240 um is a kind of deviant and all living 01:05:36.240 --> 01:05:40.799 systems um need a certain percentage of 01:05:40.799 --> 01:05:42.279 deviant in 01:05:42.279 --> 01:05:45.640 them um it's the but there's there's 01:05:45.640 --> 01:05:48.200 like as Ivon ellich would say there's 01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:51.920 limits to how much deviance or deception 01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:56.279 that A system can take um um so you know 01:05:56.279 --> 01:06:00.359 when you're when your a child is first 01:06:00.359 --> 01:06:03.039 learns that they can move you from a 01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:05.960 distance um they start enacting all 01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:07.640 these deviant behaviors like they 01:06:07.640 --> 01:06:09.000 pretend they're going to stick their 01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.599 finger in the light socket just to make 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:14.400 sure that they understand cause and 01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:18.160 effect here and stuff and um there's a 01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:22.799 certain gr gratuiti that you allow them 01:06:22.799 --> 01:06:26.799 um and culture is the same way um uh the 01:06:26.799 --> 01:06:29.400 animals are very clever different 01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:33.920 animals not only through evolutionary um 01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:38.039 behaviors but psychologically deceptive 01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:41.799 uh things to each other you know if I'm 01:06:41.799 --> 01:06:44.319 not looking my mayor goes into the tack 01:06:44.319 --> 01:06:46.240 room and she eats 01:06:46.240 --> 01:06:48.799 grain and when I yell at her she's happy 01:06:48.799 --> 01:06:51.640 just to walk out but she walks out like 01:06:51.640 --> 01:06:53.440 this she won't pretending she's not 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.760 chewing 01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.079 and she and then she goes in there she 01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:00.319 CHS the mouthful like it's very 01:07:00.319 --> 01:07:02.799 deceptive I it think is really funny you 01:07:02.799 --> 01:07:05.119 know horses deceive each other about 01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:07.240 food all the time because like if you're 01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:09.200 on the in the prairie and you find some 01:07:09.200 --> 01:07:10.880 really good food and you get really 01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:12.680 happy they all come over and eat all of 01:07:12.680 --> 01:07:15.480 it right so they very there's there's 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.079 deception uh the the living world is 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:19.599 littered with 01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.960 deception but uh living systems can only 01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:25.760 take certain percent of decep same with 01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:28.000 psychopathy there's psychopathy in in 01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:31.760 all animal species but culture can only 01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:33.599 take so much of it before it's 01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:36.359 completely destabilized 01:07:36.359 --> 01:07:39.359 so 01:07:40.160 --> 01:07:43.160 um 01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:46.520 yeah but deception is again you know how 01:07:46.520 --> 01:07:48.799 do you know if you're being 01:07:48.799 --> 01:07:50.599 deceived 01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:54.799 or or or not and sometimes it's fun to 01:07:54.799 --> 01:07:59.039 be deceived you know um 01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:02.720 but deception 01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:06.359 becomes you know we it it becomes more 01:08:06.359 --> 01:08:08.839 sophisticated and we're kind of experts 01:08:08.839 --> 01:08:09.559 at 01:08:09.559 --> 01:08:14.039 it um you can deceive a dog a lot easier 01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:16.640 than you can deceive a horse because the 01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:19.359 dogs will listen to your 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:23.120 words and the horses once there's a if 01:08:23.120 --> 01:08:25.040 there is a 01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:27.839 uh disconnect between your words and 01:08:27.839 --> 01:08:30.440 your body language the horse will will 01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:33.279 believe your body language the dog will 01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:36.319 believe you body language but if they're 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:38.880 used to these cute little words you can 01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:40.279 convince 01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:44.080 them so this is another way you can see 01:08:44.080 --> 01:08:46.520 with the the rise 01:08:46.520 --> 01:08:50.440 of words and language and the power of 01:08:50.440 --> 01:08:52.480 deception 01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:55.799 um uh 01:09:01.759 --> 01:09:04.560 yeah and wild animals they're they're 01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:07.359 called wild animals because they they're 01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:09.799 L you know you can't they don't you 01:09:09.799 --> 01:09:11.880 can't use words even if you if they live 01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:12.920 in your 01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:16.560 household um and this is that that post 01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:20.120 I had about the first two chimpanzees 01:09:20.120 --> 01:09:23.040 that learn American Sign Language right 01:09:23.040 --> 01:09:24.880 they could sign 01:09:24.880 --> 01:09:26.600 but they had to be in cages because they 01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:27.839 weren't 01:09:27.839 --> 01:09:31.159 trustworthy they would attack their own 01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:33.000 owners 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.920 um that some somehow that that's in 01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:38.839 there too the difference between a 01:09:38.839 --> 01:09:41.920 common family a common culture 01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:46.440 versus language that's based on words 01:09:46.440 --> 01:09:49.560 really words as 01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:51.880 strategies 01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:56.199 um yeah K or result did you want to say 01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:59.080 something yeah well 01:09:59.080 --> 01:10:02.360 well I was thinking 01:10:02.360 --> 01:10:04.800 about just this premise of like language 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:05.920 is 01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:08.000 communicating like imagination to 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.280 imagination to kind of create an 01:10:09.280 --> 01:10:12.000 imaginary experience it's not 01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.520 necessarily connected to the time and 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:19.440 place um and that seems true to me 01:10:19.440 --> 01:10:20.560 especially when we're talking about 01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:22.080 conversation but then I'm also thinking 01:10:22.080 --> 01:10:23.400 about like other ways that language is 01:10:23.400 --> 01:10:24.199 used 01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.000 not at least it seems not about creating 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:30.800 an imaginary experience but about like 01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:34.840 enhancing or pointing out or like making 01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:37.719 Salient something now or like carrying 01:10:37.719 --> 01:10:40.080 someone through an emotional experience 01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:44.960 now like like soothing language 01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:47.719 like I don't know someone's having a 01:10:47.719 --> 01:10:49.159 someone just like fell over and is 01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:52.040 injured like you're okay you're okay it 01:10:52.040 --> 01:10:55.199 doesn't seem so imaginary but more like 01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.640 like an energetic communication in the 01:10:57.640 --> 01:10:59.840 moment to kind of like carry you through 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:02.159 like the undulations of your pain like 01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:04.840 very directly in the present or like 01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:07.000 when people are eating food together and 01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:10.480 someone's like like this is like I don't 01:11:10.480 --> 01:11:12.199 know like enhancing or making more 01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:16.320 drawing more attention to like how 01:11:16.320 --> 01:11:18.400 delicious it is or something like that 01:11:18.400 --> 01:11:20.520 and then I I was kind of thinking about 01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:22.560 how like this seems 01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.080 like or like very like base things that 01:11:25.080 --> 01:11:26.280 we don't even think of as language like 01:11:26.280 --> 01:11:28.480 animal communication like you hear a 01:11:28.480 --> 01:11:30.679 scary noise and someone goes ah you know 01:11:30.679 --> 01:11:32.560 which kind of just like is another noise 01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:34.000 in the environment that like puts 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:37.719 everyone into a specific State um to 01:11:37.719 --> 01:11:39.199 maybe look around 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:43.800 for the threat and I don't know I was 01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:46.320 imagining how like our conversational 01:11:46.320 --> 01:11:47.960 language kind of like moved out of that 01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:50.880 to be able to or maybe like Drew on 01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:53.120 those things on those associations to be 01:11:53.120 --> 01:11:54.360 able to 01:11:54.360 --> 01:11:55.880 like aoke things that aren't here in the 01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:58.040 time and place but 01:11:58.040 --> 01:12:02.880 anyway kind of to what anesa was saying 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:04.520 I'm not sorry I'm not sure if I got if I 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:08.800 pronounced your name right but like 01:12:10.400 --> 01:12:12.400 maybe I don't know a lot of times it 01:12:12.400 --> 01:12:15.040 feels really good um there's a lot of 01:12:15.040 --> 01:12:17.120 like playfulness too I don't know like 01:12:17.120 --> 01:12:18.600 people who are kind of dancing together 01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:20.159 or joking together very much in the 01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:23.040 present about what's around um just like 01:12:23.040 --> 01:12:26.800 coming back to that style of using 01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:28.719 language I'm riffing on this I don't 01:12:28.719 --> 01:12:30.360 know is there anything that you're 01:12:30.360 --> 01:12:32.719 getting what I'm saying yeah no this is 01:12:32.719 --> 01:12:34.360 important 01:12:34.360 --> 01:12:38.920 so so um first we point to things right 01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:44.520 that's gestal and then I can say O A now 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:47.199 I can say rock I don't have to point to 01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:49.440 it and The Rock could be around you know 01:12:49.440 --> 01:12:52.560 around the corner so we move from 01:12:52.560 --> 01:12:57.199 pointing to oral oral communication with 01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:01.840 a sound S stand in for something um we 01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:04.880 move from having to punch someone so I 01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:06.920 need to be in proximity to making a 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.639 threat gesture and over 01:13:09.639 --> 01:13:13.600 time these functions in communication 01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:17.480 cover more space so I can make a threat 01:13:17.480 --> 01:13:18.920 gesture when you're 01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.239 behind when I can make a threat sound in 01:13:22.239 --> 01:13:25.639 a gesture from from 40t away but once 01:13:25.639 --> 01:13:28.120 the sound becomes oral 01:13:28.120 --> 01:13:31.920 communication then you could be behind a 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:35.120 tree and I know you're with my wife and 01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:38.880 I can just make a huge noise and disrupt 01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:42.960 you right so over time we our language 01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:45.520 covers more 01:13:45.520 --> 01:13:49.320 space more people so if I can if I make 01:13:49.320 --> 01:13:51.280 a threat gesture to 20 people I don't 01:13:51.280 --> 01:13:55.320 have to punch all 20 people out 01:13:55.320 --> 01:13:59.320 and it it lasts longer so the text of a 01:13:59.320 --> 01:14:03.040 Bible lasts has lasted 10 you know 01:14:03.040 --> 01:14:04.960 12,000 years or whatever I can't 01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:09.480 remember um 5,000 years and so you you 01:14:09.480 --> 01:14:12.679 keep increasing the duration of the 01:14:12.679 --> 01:14:15.960 memory you keep externalizing the memory 01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:19.520 from the body to more and more external 01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:22.280 things and you can grow so now we have 01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:24.480 global 01:14:24.480 --> 01:14:29.159 finance that uh coordinates millions of 01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:31.080 people around the world and it's the 01:14:31.080 --> 01:14:34.520 language of the symbol of currency right 01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:38.000 so you have this you have this 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:43.280 complexification across time of um of 01:14:43.280 --> 01:14:47.520 communication so 01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:50.560 um so what you're saying is true like 01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:53.320 there's these other forms these more 01:14:53.320 --> 01:14:55.280 concrete forms these more direct forms 01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:58.760 are also a kind of language or certainly 01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:00.600 a kind of communication depending on how 01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:03.360 you want to use those words but I think 01:15:03.360 --> 01:15:06.080 you have to be careful because in in 01:15:06.080 --> 01:15:07.960 many cases what's happening with your 01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:10.280 example of soothing 01:15:10.280 --> 01:15:13.199 someone it's actually the words don't 01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:18.040 matter like one time uh Jonathan rouson 01:15:18.040 --> 01:15:20.080 was on Twitter and he said does anybody 01:15:20.080 --> 01:15:24.760 have any strategies for um calming down 01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.239 a I think his son was like fouryear old 01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:30.320 on the train or something like that and 01:15:30.320 --> 01:15:32.280 he was obviously on the train having 01:15:32.280 --> 01:15:34.159 problems with his kid like on a long 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:36.760 ride and people had all these strategies 01:15:36.760 --> 01:15:39.840 and I said I said hum your favorite 01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:43.159 Simon Garfunkle you know uh Simon and 01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:47.520 Garfunkle tune in your head hum it but I 01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:50.920 said but don't hum it to your child just 01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:53.440 hum it to yourself and he's like oh my 01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:56.679 God like it worked 01:15:56.679 --> 01:16:00.639 because it's it it was I he needed to 01:16:00.639 --> 01:16:03.120 change his 01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:05.960 body to to calm down the child and if he 01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:08.679 had hummed this you know sweet song to 01:16:08.679 --> 01:16:10.639 the child it would have been more of 01:16:10.639 --> 01:16:14.040 that same thing so a lot of times uh 01:16:14.040 --> 01:16:16.600 when we're soothing people the words 01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:18.400 don't really matter I mean we want to 01:16:18.400 --> 01:16:21.520 use nice words but it's whether or not a 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:25.120 lot of times our words in or or sing 01:16:25.120 --> 01:16:27.239 songing is actually helping us take a 01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:30.000 posture that will calm people 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:33.159 down and that's the re the real 01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:35.440 communication happening at that 01:16:35.440 --> 01:16:39.320 level um and then you have to be 01:16:39.320 --> 01:16:41.920 careful 01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:44.920 because if your friend comes to you and 01:16:44.920 --> 01:16:46.560 they're having an emotional 01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:49.280 meltdown you want your body to soothe 01:16:49.280 --> 01:16:51.920 them but you don't want to perpetuate 01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:55.040 the fantasy like everything depends upon 01:16:55.040 --> 01:16:57.679 him and I mean I screwed up and blah 01:16:57.679 --> 01:16:59.600 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:02.480 see that's just that's just fantasy you 01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:06.080 know a lot of times the problem that's 01:17:06.080 --> 01:17:09.480 coming to you at the linguistic level is 01:17:09.480 --> 01:17:11.760 a delusion or a 01:17:11.760 --> 01:17:13.920 distortion or an 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:16.280 egocentric Obsession or 01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:18.679 something and so now you have to be very 01:17:18.679 --> 01:17:20.040 careful because you might be doing the 01:17:20.040 --> 01:17:21.679 right thing with your body but you might 01:17:21.679 --> 01:17:24.000 be aggravating the story that comes 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:26.920 along with the emotion and that story 01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:29.280 can be 01:17:32.239 --> 01:17:35.679 delusional and not 01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:42.760 helpful so um as in in most people's uh 01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:45.520 meltdowns have a lot of 01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:49.000 delusional story to them which is not 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:50.400 which is not helpful now you're not 01:17:50.400 --> 01:17:53.239 gonna say hey that's delusional this 01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:56.560 would not work right you need to be do 01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:01.239 the soothing holding being with someone 01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:05.960 without um adding to the delusion and in 01:18:05.960 --> 01:18:07.880 a way you don't want to add energy to 01:18:07.880 --> 01:18:11.679 the delusion it'll exhaust itself as as 01:18:11.679 --> 01:18:13.560 these things do and then people just end 01:18:13.560 --> 01:18:16.679 up being a you know just crying or 01:18:16.679 --> 01:18:19.400 something and at that stage it's more 01:18:19.400 --> 01:18:21.920 appropriate just to deal with the 01:18:21.920 --> 01:18:24.719 affect in the 01:18:24.719 --> 01:18:28.239 body um 01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.560 so 01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:38.320 um we often get hysterical around things 01:18:38.320 --> 01:18:41.560 that are 01:18:42.639 --> 01:18:46.800 not if you can zoom out and see what's 01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:50.760 actually happening um it's not worth the 01:18:50.760 --> 01:18:51.920 the 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:55.199 imbalance or the hysteria and then and 01:18:55.199 --> 01:18:58.040 then sometimes something else deeper is 01:18:58.040 --> 01:18:59.679 operating 01:18:59.679 --> 01:19:03.480 but um 01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:24.840 yeah 01:19:28.360 --> 01:19:31.199 and it's always a question of when when 01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:34.239 you have or a situation for yourself or 01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:36.120 you're helping a situation it's like 01:19:36.120 --> 01:19:38.040 relative to 01:19:38.040 --> 01:19:40.360 what what's most important to you 01:19:40.360 --> 01:19:43.239 relative to what and again this goes 01:19:43.239 --> 01:19:44.080 back 01:19:44.080 --> 01:19:46.880 into understanding or knowing where you 01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:48.880 want to put your energy and your effort 01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:50.880 in so relative to 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:53.639 that is it threatening that 01:19:53.639 --> 01:19:56.639 that 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:24.760 um 01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:45.120 I want to throw out a few Reflections 01:20:45.120 --> 01:20:50.040 um one about the the worm right where to 01:20:50.040 --> 01:20:52.080 me what was it called the starts with 01:20:52.080 --> 01:20:53.520 the N whatever 01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:55.800 um but at the beginning of that video it 01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:58.560 had like the different layers of like 01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:02.239 Society body organ tissue DNA something 01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:04.639 like that 01:21:04.639 --> 01:21:08.360 um and you know it felt like there's 01:21:08.360 --> 01:21:10.719 kind of a a communication when when the 01:21:10.719 --> 01:21:11.679 when the 01:21:11.679 --> 01:21:15.239 worm goes from one level like the 01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:17.199 environment the organ disappears and 01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:19.719 then it kind of has this like response 01:21:19.719 --> 01:21:21.199 on a DNA 01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:25.400 level um so there's like communication 01:21:25.400 --> 01:21:29.639 across like the different architecture 01:21:29.639 --> 01:21:31.159 levels 01:21:31.159 --> 01:21:33.880 um and you know that kind of Discovery 01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:36.159 or the the discussion of that kind of 01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:38.760 challenges our assumptions that DNA is 01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:41.199 just kind of like fixed and know the 01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:43.239 Richard dck and selfish whatever just 01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:45.520 influenced we're slaves for our DNA or 01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:47.440 whatever 01:21:47.440 --> 01:21:49.520 um and I thought that was kind of 01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:52.760 interesting like what could Society for 01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:55.440 example kind of communicate to like a 01:21:55.440 --> 01:21:58.560 body right if Society or something is 01:21:58.560 --> 01:22:01.120 falling apart or you know it's in its 01:22:01.120 --> 01:22:03.679 own barium concentrate and losing its 01:22:03.679 --> 01:22:05.880 head could it send these kind of 01:22:05.880 --> 01:22:08.280 messages to 01:22:08.280 --> 01:22:12.080 bodies right and like so think think 01:22:12.080 --> 01:22:14.560 back to the the worm 01:22:14.560 --> 01:22:17.960 example um like let's say you're a DNA 01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:21.560 or you're at the level of DNA 01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.280 and 01:22:23.280 --> 01:22:26.320 it when it when the worm you get the 01:22:26.320 --> 01:22:28.560 message to be like okay flip these parts 01:22:28.560 --> 01:22:31.199 of the your DNA and then the DNA is like 01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:32.719 wait what the that doesn't make any 01:22:32.719 --> 01:22:34.639 sense 01:22:34.639 --> 01:22:38.560 like if the DNA had this kind 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:42.000 of if if the DNA were like neoliberal 01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:44.440 you know individuals they'd be like wait 01:22:44.440 --> 01:22:47.480 that doesn't make any sense like we're 01:22:47.480 --> 01:22:51.600 getting messages from the from the you 01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:54.159 know like the the the individual DNA 01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:55.400 would be like okay I need to flip to 01:22:55.400 --> 01:22:56.600 this base pair and then everyone else 01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:57.920 would be like oh you're schizophrenic 01:22:57.920 --> 01:22:59.560 like you're hearing messages like no we 01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:00.840 always do things this 01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:03.840 way 01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:06.880 um and it almost like it almost feels 01:23:06.880 --> 01:23:08.760 like within those DNA there's an element 01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:10.560 of like deception being 01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:12.920 communicated it's 01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:15.960 like um okay back to I'm sorry I'm kind 01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:17.159 of jumping around but back to like the 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:19.800 language example it seems like there's 01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:21.360 there's kind of a link between deception 01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:23.679 and Trust 01:23:23.679 --> 01:23:26.520 like like let's say you know you're in 01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:28.760 our early periods of language it's like 01:23:28.760 --> 01:23:30.320 hey let's cut down let's chop down a 01:23:30.320 --> 01:23:31.960 bunch of trees and we're going to put 01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:35.239 them together and make a boat out of it 01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:40.120 right and like if if you're trying if 01:23:40.120 --> 01:23:41.960 you're on like a societal level and some 01:23:41.960 --> 01:23:45.000 people don't understand like the vision 01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:47.840 of like what the hell is a boat why like 01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:49.639 why are we going to chop down the tree 01:23:49.639 --> 01:23:51.080 doesn't make any sense you might just 01:23:51.080 --> 01:23:52.719 kind of like have to lie to them to some 01:23:52.719 --> 01:23:54.800 extent be like just chop down the tree 01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:57.360 and and trust me right and then it's 01:23:57.360 --> 01:23:58.719 kind of like a magic trick where it's 01:23:58.719 --> 01:24:01.080 like later it's like the boat comes 01:24:01.080 --> 01:24:02.639 together with all the trees and then all 01:24:02.639 --> 01:24:05.800 of a sudden everyone's like oh I see you 01:24:05.800 --> 01:24:07.239 I see what you were getting at that's 01:24:07.239 --> 01:24:09.480 why we chopped on the trees so it's kind 01:24:09.480 --> 01:24:12.560 of like deception in a way can lead to 01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:17.840 like delayed trust if it follows 01:24:20.400 --> 01:24:24.280 through I think that all made sense 01:24:24.280 --> 01:24:27.040 but well I would 01:24:27.040 --> 01:24:30.440 say as just as you you told the story 01:24:30.440 --> 01:24:32.840 they trusted you even though they you 01:24:32.840 --> 01:24:35.800 they couldn't under they could not enter 01:24:35.800 --> 01:24:37.520 in your shared 01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.920 imagination they looked in they looked 01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:42.480 tried to understand and nothing was 01:24:42.480 --> 01:24:43.600 happening 01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:48.760 there um so 01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:53.040 um I wouldn't necessarily qu call that 01:24:53.040 --> 01:24:56.040 deception it's based on Social Capital 01:24:56.040 --> 01:24:58.600 you had some trust there um now if you 01:24:58.600 --> 01:25:02.600 had told them uh cut down the trees 01:25:02.600 --> 01:25:07.280 because God no because then I'll give 01:25:07.280 --> 01:25:11.040 you like seven acres of land per person 01:25:11.040 --> 01:25:14.320 and then you didn't do that uh that's 01:25:14.320 --> 01:25:16.960 deception um because you're 01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:18.800 basically because they don't have 01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:20.520 anything in their imagination that's 01:25:20.520 --> 01:25:23.159 motivating them you're you're giving 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:24.800 them the imagination that they'll have 01:25:24.800 --> 01:25:27.719 seven acres of land when they're done 01:25:27.719 --> 01:25:31.679 and that's and and that I would call 01:25:31.679 --> 01:25:34.159 deception but if you're just realizing 01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:36.560 that they 01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:41.000 don't they can't there's nothing future 01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:42.360 like that's happening in their 01:25:42.360 --> 01:25:44.679 imagination except that they see the 01:25:44.679 --> 01:25:48.199 trees are gone uh then you're just 01:25:48.199 --> 01:25:51.400 trying to rely on trust uh for whatever 01:25:51.400 --> 01:25:54.280 reason you know 01:25:54.639 --> 01:25:57.639 um 01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:02.239 uh but there you know there so there's a 01:26:02.239 --> 01:26:04.199 lot there there's different strategies 01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:09.080 that that you can you can take 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:23.119 um and then this goes back to the trust 01:26:23.119 --> 01:26:25.080 Styles because like in 01:26:25.080 --> 01:26:28.600 organizations um you don't trust your 01:26:28.600 --> 01:26:31.280 boss who tells you what to do let's say 01:26:31.280 --> 01:26:33.400 your boss is telling you to do something 01:26:33.400 --> 01:26:35.600 you don't you can't and you can't and 01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:38.000 he's like just do it you can't see why 01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.679 you think he's crazy uh you don't know 01:26:40.679 --> 01:26:44.320 if he's crazy an idiot or a Visionary 01:26:44.320 --> 01:26:46.560 because nothing's happening in your 01:26:46.560 --> 01:26:50.360 mind um you don't trust him because you 01:26:50.360 --> 01:26:52.840 don't think he's a nice guy but you 01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:56.040 trust based upon these right-hand 01:26:56.040 --> 01:26:59.920 cognitive things he has Authority and 01:26:59.920 --> 01:27:04.320 Status um and that's a trust 01:27:04.320 --> 01:27:06.800 style it's not it's 01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:09.880 not that's that's a very common trust 01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:12.280 style in 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:24.119 organizations 01:27:33.960 --> 01:27:36.159 that's was just noticing something in me 01:27:36.159 --> 01:27:38.320 about the word deception that I think 01:27:38.320 --> 01:27:40.800 it's cute when the power the person with 01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:44.000 less power deceives like when the kid 01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:47.280 deceives the parent but I find that I'm 01:27:47.280 --> 01:27:49.119 allergic to when the person with more 01:27:49.119 --> 01:27:51.600 power deceives the person with less 01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:52.920 power like 01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:54.920 if it's when the power relationship is 01:27:54.920 --> 01:27:57.080 one way I tell these cute stories about 01:27:57.080 --> 01:27:58.880 the kid deceiving the parent and then 01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:00.400 when the power relationship is the other 01:28:00.400 --> 01:28:03.280 way I think it's really bad so just 01:28:03.280 --> 01:28:08.920 noticing a little bias there on my 01:28:10.239 --> 01:28:13.400 part I was thinking the same thing just 01:28:13.400 --> 01:28:16.440 then Bonnie we about power um abuse of 01:28:16.440 --> 01:28:18.639 power 01:28:18.639 --> 01:28:21.360 and the weaponization you know get we 01:28:21.360 --> 01:28:22.760 can weaponize language but we can 01:28:22.760 --> 01:28:24.800 weaponize trust like I can deceive you 01:28:24.800 --> 01:28:27.360 into trusting me which gives me more 01:28:27.360 --> 01:28:31.880 power to ends that aren't in your best 01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:34.560 interest yeah this gets into a whole 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:36.800 bunch of stuff that it's kind of besides 01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:39.800 the point but I'll just park it here and 01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:41.760 that is 01:28:41.760 --> 01:28:48.000 um so in in the modern world um we have 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.960 this Distortion of trust this is what 01:28:49.960 --> 01:28:52.480 you're going to talk about so in 01:28:52.480 --> 01:28:55.480 organizations we don't have so much just 01:28:55.480 --> 01:28:57.800 out andout 01:28:57.800 --> 01:29:00.639 conflict um what we have is called 01:29:00.639 --> 01:29:06.080 leveraged conflict right so not only do 01:29:06.080 --> 01:29:08.440 I make you do something but if you don't 01:29:08.440 --> 01:29:10.719 do it I have a punishment on the other 01:29:10.719 --> 01:29:14.639 side so it's not just combat conflict 01:29:14.639 --> 01:29:19.360 there's all these coupling of all these 01:29:19.360 --> 01:29:22.639 other dependencies that are leveraged 01:29:22.639 --> 01:29:25.440 on top of just the conflict either and 01:29:25.440 --> 01:29:27.880 this is probably the most perverse form 01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:30.880 of conflict there is so if you watch 01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:32.560 suits or 01:29:32.560 --> 01:29:36.080 billions or House of Cards there's 01:29:36.080 --> 01:29:39.119 constant leveraging of relationship 01:29:39.119 --> 01:29:43.080 leverage conflict is really 01:29:43.080 --> 01:29:46.080 um 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:54.000 yeah versus just conflict you know all 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:55.560 right you go make your thing I'm going 01:29:55.560 --> 01:29:57.280 to make mine let's see who builds the 01:29:57.280 --> 01:29:59.880 better thing you know competition or 01:29:59.880 --> 01:30:01.119 something 01:30:01.119 --> 01:30:05.719 whereas it's not a leveraged 01:30:20.480 --> 01:30:22.360 conflict okay 01:30:22.360 --> 01:30:24.760 thank you very much we had a good 01:30:24.760 --> 01:30:27.560 conversation we'll be building on this 01:30:27.560 --> 01:30:30.920 somewhat going forward um leave your 01:30:30.920 --> 01:30:33.560 comments in the comment section so in 01:30:33.560 --> 01:30:35.199 the comment to the 01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:41.239 course uh essay Post in the comment 01:30:41.239 --> 01:30:44.360 section I put a link to a PDF which has 01:30:44.360 --> 01:30:46.800 three short essays on what is lyric 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:48.639 philosophy if you're interested in 01:30:48.639 --> 01:30:50.320 perusing them they're very 01:30:50.320 --> 01:30:52.560 conversational in style 01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:55.880 um not necessarily you don't have to 01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:59.040 have to read them but um you'll find it 01:30:59.040 --> 01:31:01.320 in the comment section it's a Google doc 01:31:01.320 --> 01:31:02.400 okay 01:31:02.400 --> 01:31:05.320 so enjoy everybody thank you I learned a 01:31:05.320 --> 01:31:07.520 lot 01:31:07.800 --> 01:31:10.800 today ## Cohort 2 00:00:09.719 --> 00:00:12.759 hello everyone Hi 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.240 Gio can you hear 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:20.910 me 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:22.560 [Music] 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:26.080 okay where are we at what do we want to 00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:27.840 talk 00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:32.119 about um let's just do some check-ins 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:34.480 and see what 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:38.559 is um on your minds this morning and see 00:00:38.559 --> 00:00:43.590 if we can't weave that into um our 00:00:43.590 --> 00:00:46.199 [Music] 00:00:46.199 --> 00:00:49.199 topic do people hear me because I cannot 00:00:49.199 --> 00:00:51.440 hear 00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:54.960 anybody I cannot hear 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.280 people all right GNA see what's the 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:01.000 problem Maybe 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.760 I'll typ 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.200 written Okay who wants to start what's 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:13.600 been on your Collective 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:15.400 Consciousness I don't know about 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.600 Collective but I've been I've been 00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:19.640 playing with the origins story that I 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:22.720 started last time and I'm it's 00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:25.640 fascinating at least from my 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:28.280 perspective and it's close to done at 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:29.560 least it's done as it's going to be at 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.320 this moment moment in time it's funny 00:01:31.320 --> 00:01:33.399 because when I went back and looked at 00:01:33.399 --> 00:01:35.399 some of the other blog posts I've 00:01:35.399 --> 00:01:36.720 written in the past I've been writing 00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:38.360 about this has been progressing quite 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:40.439 some time it just gets a little bit 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:42.479 different each time 00:01:42.479 --> 00:01:46.360 but um anyway that's there 00:01:46.360 --> 00:01:50.280 and tomorrow is my nephew's public 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:52.439 memorial service and my entire extended 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:54.079 family is coming in my sister's flying 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:57.320 in my daughter's flying in so it's both 00:01:57.320 --> 00:02:00.240 recording in progress It's a celebration 00:02:00.240 --> 00:02:03.640 really and you know it's sad but still 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:05.039 it's going to be nice to have the entire 00:02:05.039 --> 00:02:06.680 extended family and all these other 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:10.920 people there so that's what's going on 00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:22.440 here I guess I'll go 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.280 um 00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:30.680 um I've been I was over at my mom's like 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:34.400 last week for her birthday 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.599 and last day I was 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.680 there and it was kind of like a tip of 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:41.200 the iceberg kind of thing I don't know 00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:45.239 why this comment really hit me but I was 00:02:45.239 --> 00:02:47.239 telling her like oh apparently like 00:02:47.239 --> 00:02:50.040 there's Sriracha the chilies it's too 00:02:50.040 --> 00:02:52.040 hot so the the chilies are not even 00:02:52.040 --> 00:02:54.400 growing anymore for 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.640 Sriracha um and then she came back 00:02:56.640 --> 00:02:58.800 because I we're I'm from vancou Island 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.440 and you know there's 00:03:00.440 --> 00:03:02.440 there's a few wineries down south but 00:03:02.440 --> 00:03:03.799 she was saying oh well that's 00:03:03.799 --> 00:03:05.920 interesting 00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:08.959 um a bunch of us wineries are apparently 00:03:08.959 --> 00:03:12.319 buying land on Vancouver Island because 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:13.560 they're thinking in the future it'll 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:15.599 become more like Mediterranean 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.280 climate um and for some reason when she 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:20.239 said 00:03:20.239 --> 00:03:23.159 that I just felt like my chest like I 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.480 just felt 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.480 the 00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:33.879 um yeah just just like huge grief in my 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.400 chest and I still kind of feel it and 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.120 that was a few days ago and I 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.879 don't yeah I don't know how to like deal 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:43.519 with it it's just 00:03:43.519 --> 00:03:47.879 like I don't know it's just there and it 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.040 really feels like something 00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:53.480 like I have a lot of time off right now 00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:55.799 um because work kind of ends for a month 00:03:55.799 --> 00:03:58.000 or three weeks 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.400 and I just I've just been trying to 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.079 maybe spend time in nature but it feels 00:04:02.079 --> 00:04:04.400 like one of those things that changes 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.640 you in like a different 00:04:06.640 --> 00:04:08.560 direction 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:10.879 um 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.120 yeah but yeah just kind of really hit 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.239 home just thinking of planet and 00:04:15.239 --> 00:04:18.479 everything I 00:04:21.280 --> 00:04:24.520 guess I remember and one other thing um 00:04:24.520 --> 00:04:26.320 I think Daniel schenberg I just watched 00:04:26.320 --> 00:04:28.280 a video of him 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:30.400 and it kind 00:04:30.400 --> 00:04:32.600 coincided nicely I guess because like he 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.680 was saying like many people unless 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:37.919 you're like a sociopath many people 00:04:37.919 --> 00:04:41.520 maybe suppress feeling this feeling 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:42.800 because they're scared of just being 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.479 depressed and not you know just being 00:04:45.479 --> 00:04:47.919 depressed but he said like just trust 00:04:47.919 --> 00:04:51.759 that feeling and then you know just keep 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.240 learning and asking how you can help I 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.960 guess that was his kind of message and 00:04:56.960 --> 00:05:00.960 that was that was good 00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:06.440 yeah feel like a reorientation period I 00:05:09.919 --> 00:05:14.919 guess well I could say Matthew I'm 00:05:14.919 --> 00:05:18.560 depressed and I don't know how language 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.280 that we have will help us in the world 00:05:21.280 --> 00:05:24.440 we have right 00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:26.960 now 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:30.000 well how the language that we have have 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.319 now maybe there is a 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.919 language so I'm in I'm in London at the 00:05:46.919 --> 00:05:51.440 moment um and kind of the timing of the 00:05:51.440 --> 00:05:53.600 conversations here have kind of been 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:55.039 weaving 00:05:55.039 --> 00:05:57.360 into some of the 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.759 discussions we've been having 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.240 um we've been trying to clarify this is 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.120 for a grant making organization we we've 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.000 been trying to 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.440 clarify you know what we're trying to do 00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:13.840 um and we had these big buckets we had 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:16.120 you know education which I still think 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.039 is an important one but anyway education 00:06:19.039 --> 00:06:23.479 economics um advertising all of this and 00:06:23.479 --> 00:06:25.639 we were thinking oh we need 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.400 to have some clarity that some 00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:30.800 constraint 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.479 um certainly some some clarity would be 00:06:33.479 --> 00:06:36.479 useful and maybe some constraint would 00:06:36.479 --> 00:06:39.360 help us with that Clarity and so we've 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:40.840 been playing around with this notion of 00:06:40.840 --> 00:06:42.680 cultural renewal I mean which also 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.199 sounds quite broad but in specific 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.000 context in the UK culture this would be 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.160 but it's been really useful 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:54.800 to have the conversations the 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.400 recordings um to kind of 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.400 help put some words David you know I 00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:04.639 mean the words aren't adequate um to a 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:06.840 kind of clarity of of what we're trying 00:07:06.840 --> 00:07:09.440 to do so cultural 00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:11.520 renewal you know the kind of culture 00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:12.639 that 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:17.080 allows for a new world to become 00:07:17.080 --> 00:07:19.240 possible and then you know I introduced 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.879 this this you know new idea of lyric 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.599 culture 00:07:24.599 --> 00:07:27.160 and I just kind 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.080 of shaped myself into to this kind 00:07:31.080 --> 00:07:34.280 of intimate relation kind of saying I 00:07:34.280 --> 00:07:37.440 was doing it but and for a moment there 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:39.280 a new world was 00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:41.400 possible 00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:43.800 um we you know we tried to fill it with 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:47.120 language but 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.440 um another word came up Bic culture I 00:07:50.440 --> 00:07:53.360 don't know so that would be more oral 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:54.919 more 00:07:54.919 --> 00:07:57.360 um I guess trying to 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.720 describe I I don't know um 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.080 but this idea that we're renewing the 00:08:03.080 --> 00:08:06.120 culture kind of 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.319 from I don't know first principles but 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:14.400 from you know yeah from from first 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:17.840 principles all the time um and maybe we 00:08:17.840 --> 00:08:19.280 can add it on to stuff that we're 00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:22.280 already doing but 00:08:22.599 --> 00:08:25.000 but I don't know cultural 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.800 Renaissance cultural renewal felt felt 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:29.639 quite nice it felt like what were 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.320 actually doing in the meeting to kind of 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:36.680 come to um you know some words that 00:08:36.680 --> 00:08:38.479 might describe what what what we were 00:08:38.479 --> 00:08:40.760 doing but it was helpful not to talk 00:08:40.760 --> 00:08:43.640 about culture you know as everything but 00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:46.839 culture in a kind of fractal sense you 00:08:46.839 --> 00:08:48.600 know or or 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.440 a culture almost like a setting for a 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:55.760 context you know let you know um so yeah 00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:57.120 I just thought I'd say that just because 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.560 it it kind of fitted quite nicely with 00:08:59.560 --> 00:09:03.160 the conversations that that we're having 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.120 here 00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:52.800 so I have I have been 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.920 reading I'm kind of melancholic for 00:09:56.920 --> 00:10:00.560 reasons obvious and not so obvious 00:10:00.560 --> 00:10:03.720 um so this notion of lyric culture has 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.720 really 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.760 um kind of 00:10:12.760 --> 00:10:17.200 uh become a big thing for me um here is 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.880 this little new little book I bought 00:10:19.880 --> 00:10:22.279 trying to figure out what we're trying 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.959 to get at um and it says this is a quote 00:10:26.959 --> 00:10:30.600 from zi when thought who's Aeros is 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:34.000 Clarity is driven also by profound 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.880 intuitions of 00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:38.519 coherence when it is also an attempt to 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.720 arrive at an integrated perception a 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.720 picture or understanding of how 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.240 something might affect us as beings with 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.959 bodies and emotions as well as the 00:10:48.959 --> 00:10:50.680 ability to think 00:10:50.680 --> 00:10:54.519 logically and then the essayist goes on 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:57.160 to talk about her and says zi is 00:10:57.160 --> 00:10:59.079 concerned with the irresolvable 00:10:59.079 --> 00:11:01.440 attention in the separateness and 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.839 connectedness of things with problems of 00:11:04.839 --> 00:11:08.720 clarity rather than certainty or doubt 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.000 with articulation that includes but 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:14.079 moves Beyond argument and with a 00:11:14.079 --> 00:11:16.760 particular radically altered 00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:20.279 relationship to loss which he has called 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.760 the ultimate philosophical 00:11:22.760 --> 00:11:26.360 problem dwelling in its possibility 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.399 rather than securing ourselves from it 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:34.279 so already these themes of loss themes 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:37.519 of loss and a kind of 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.880 clarity and a radical 00:11:40.880 --> 00:11:43.279 rethinking here this is a good word for 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:45.920 you a radical rethinking of the 00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:48.519 situation and allow for a Redemptive 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:52.360 mode of knowing called 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.399 lyric Redemptive is an interesting word 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:56.880 for 00:11:56.880 --> 00:12:00.959 Renewal um 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.639 I got three three books 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:31.279 this week I got that one and then I got 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:34.760 my dark Mountain project book comes out 00:12:34.760 --> 00:12:36.440 you never read them they're too 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.680 depressing but I support the work this 00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:40.160 one happens to be a 00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:42.680 beautiful beautiful volume I might read 00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:45.279 it it's usually quite you know the dark 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:49.199 Mountain project is quite 00:12:49.199 --> 00:12:53.360 um a lot of grieving for existential 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.519 risk in it and then I'd like to read the 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.279 last CH little piece from this book 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.040 verer herzog's new book every man for 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:04.639 himself and God against 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.360 all 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.120 um there's a lot of interesting things 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:14.000 happening right now in terms 00:13:14.800 --> 00:13:17.920 of the timing of where we've 00:13:17.920 --> 00:13:21.760 come gotten to this thing of lyric 00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:24.760 culture 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:31.000 and this this sense that something new 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.199 is possible three people that I haven't 00:13:33.199 --> 00:13:35.160 heard from in a long 00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:38.160 time 00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:42.959 uh reached out to me this 00:13:43.079 --> 00:13:46.079 week and there seems to be something 00:13:46.079 --> 00:13:48.120 happening 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:51.000 um threads are kind of being pulled 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:55.440 together um and not 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:59.480 because they are people that I find we 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.920 find each other in agreement somehow 00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:03.759 this I don't know if you were watching 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.880 schenberg and Nora Bateson at the Navin 00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:11.600 Matthew was that the one yeah you notice 00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:16.880 how he's really gotten so he's quite you 00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:19.040 know he he didn't have a lot of energy 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:22.759 so he was really kind of depressed or 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.399 down uh didn't have the energy to do his 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.440 like Mega analysis kind of big picture 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.399 thing 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.680 um and there seems to be some 00:14:34.680 --> 00:14:37.680 some 00:14:37.800 --> 00:14:40.240 uh some kind of inflection point 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:43.260 happening in terms of how people 00:14:43.260 --> 00:14:46.580 [Music] 00:14:47.079 --> 00:14:49.880 are 00:14:49.880 --> 00:14:54.560 um able to withstand let me say the many 00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:56.199 crises that we 00:14:56.199 --> 00:14:59.040 face and what do I mean by able to with 00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:01.639 stand not that we're able to let it all 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.120 in this is not probably not 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:07.120 possible 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:10.680 but um you know the pundits are never at 00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:14.440 a loss for words with the Israeli um I 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.040 don't even want to say the Israeli 00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:18.000 Palestinian conflict because it's like 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.519 an Israeli ham Hamas 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:25.959 conflict um but I saw many um attempts 00:15:25.959 --> 00:15:28.399 at speaking about it where people would 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:30.160 just that are loss for words you know 00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:33.079 we're so we're so worded 00:15:33.079 --> 00:15:37.279 up with 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:42.160 um we've exhausted our old vocabulary 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:45.639 and we need a new vernacular and Z wikii 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.120 talks about you know she read writes 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:49.920 this huge book and she's a poet she 00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:51.920 writes writes writes and she says lyric 00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:54.120 art is the fullest expression of The 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.240 Hunger for 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.600 worldless 00:16:00.680 --> 00:16:02.759 we experience the burden of our capacity 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:04.800 for language as 00:16:04.800 --> 00:16:07.160 loss and what we have lost is the 00:16:07.160 --> 00:16:10.160 silence so there's like I don't know 00:16:10.160 --> 00:16:12.600 there's 00:16:16.839 --> 00:16:20.600 these there's these threads coming 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.680 coming together somehow uh in a light 00:16:23.680 --> 00:16:26.759 way you know this is not building a very 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.519 strong propositional argument for any 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:36.519 um and I love the way um like Claudia 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:38.759 Matthew I just love the way you're 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:44.079 letting pieces of it uh be 00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:49.839 useful um in in some way or another 00:16:53.680 --> 00:16:57.040 um I you know and I'll read the Herzog 00:16:57.040 --> 00:16:59.360 thing but what I want to First today 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.639 about culture is 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.079 um human culture right this is a in 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:07.319 Collective 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.079 Consciousness uh we might say Collective 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.880 Consciousness is all these the sum total 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:14.120 of human 00:17:14.120 --> 00:17:17.120 culture 00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:19.240 um 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:23.439 but um one could argue as Herzog might 00:17:23.439 --> 00:17:25.039 if you've seen the Cave of Forgotten 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.319 Dreams that you know we we often say 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:29.880 human culture starting 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.799 um in the caves of you know lco and you 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.120 know when people started creating images 00:17:36.120 --> 00:17:37.120 of 00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:41.080 themselves and um so we looked in the 00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:43.360 course content of course animals have 00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:45.640 mimesis right 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.799 so you eat the same Foods you have the 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.240 same kind of behavioral patterns you 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.480 mimic your parents this all creates a 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.679 cultural context such that when 00:17:56.679 --> 00:17:59.559 populations are dividing by let's say a 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.400 tsunami or something and that you get 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.440 cultural drift and even though they 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.320 technically could still uh breed their 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:11.240 their mating behaviors have changed 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.240 slowly through cultural drift and then 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.000 with animals a lot of times uh that's 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.960 enough to create a barrier so that they 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.520 that then they don't breed and then the 00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:23.480 genetic uh populations change so there 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:28.000 is there is the notion of culture in the 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.880 animal Kingdom but we're talking about 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.159 human culture and we might say that 00:18:35.159 --> 00:18:37.880 human culture 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.880 begins in song that would be lyric 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:46.000 culture um and painting some type 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.799 of 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.600 um something a little more than 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:59.120 M bi physical mimetics okay okay 00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:01.280 something more than monkey see monkey do 00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:03.400 I mean we incorporate that in ritual and 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:09.000 stuff but um there's a sense in which 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:12.120 when you're painting on the walls of let 00:19:12.120 --> 00:19:15.760 go uh you're creating an Imaginarium 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:18.039 they're creating an imaginary 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.840 world um and in many cases these 00:19:22.840 --> 00:19:25.120 imaginary worlds are privileged to the 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:27.720 few right because either not everybody 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.919 visits your cave or they don't 00:19:29.919 --> 00:19:31.400 understand your own images you don't 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.600 have the same Mythos etc etc etc and so 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:36.799 we talked yesterday 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.000 about language and culture culture 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.600 emerging from the fact that with human 00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:48.200 language um in many cases we are it's 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.919 used to speak to another person's 00:19:51.919 --> 00:19:53.799 imagination I mean we have a lot of 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.880 other languages like you know get get 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.400 the pen it and then you have to look 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.039 around for the pen I'm not talking about 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.280 an imaginary pen but this uniquely 00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:06.280 human uh 00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:10.320 explosion of 00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:12.400 um and of course that's what we do here 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.200 in the popup school right we're all 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.600 sitting here creating 00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:19.200 worlds that we're sharing it's hard to 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.600 share because the language the meaning 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:25.240 of the word slide and this and that 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.159 um but we're also trying to 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:33.039 honor our lived experience and 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.320 intuitions we go out in the everyday 00:20:35.320 --> 00:20:37.000 world and we bring those experiences 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:42.400 back in here so um so Herzog in this 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.200 last passage of this crazy book of 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.360 course he writes a book that's quite 00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:52.120 crazy um this his 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:53.840 autobiography 00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:58.320 um he he he imagines he's trying trying 00:20:58.320 --> 00:21:00.919 to imagine the world without books 00:21:00.919 --> 00:21:02.200 that's how he 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.400 starts and then he starts to imagine the 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:09.679 world without images like he starts to 00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:15.120 subtract Take It All Away in his 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.720 imagination and so he writes for decades 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.240 now people have stopped reading even 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.799 University students no longer 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.919 read this development is the result of 00:21:26.919 --> 00:21:30.320 tweets and texts in short videos what 00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:32.400 will a world be like with hardly any 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.480 spoken languages which are becoming 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.159 extinct in their profusion in 00:21:37.159 --> 00:21:39.480 variety what will a world be like 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.440 without a profound language of pictures 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:44.840 where my profession no longer 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:47.080 exists the end is 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:50.080 coming he doesn't he doesn't say this 00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:53.080 but I think it's the same thing with AI 00:21:53.080 --> 00:21:58.679 and Dolly the images becoming so 00:21:58.679 --> 00:22:00.440 many that that something's getting 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.760 exhausted out of out of culture I 00:22:04.760 --> 00:22:07.440 think I picture a radical turning away 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.440 from thought argument and image not just 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.600 an approaching darkness in which certain 00:22:12.600 --> 00:22:15.240 objects can still be felt but a 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.080 condition where they no longer exist at 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:20.080 all are Darkness filled with fear with 00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:22.840 imaginary 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.400 monsters I think of a passage in the 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.320 Florentine codex W written as though 00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:30.760 speakers amid the destruction of their 00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:33.480 culture and Horizons were still trying 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.880 to find their way to their 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:40.080 language a cave is terrifying a place of 00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:42.799 Terror a place of death it will be 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:44.720 called a place of death because people 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.440 will die here it is a place of darkness 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.080 dark always dark it stands there with 00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:53.520 mouth gaping open how could one depict 00:22:53.520 --> 00:22:55.679 the absence of 00:22:55.679 --> 00:22:59.080 images not just their removal 00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:01.720 the final irrevocable turning away from 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.120 images but their 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.840 non-existence I imagine two mirrors set 00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:10.440 up an exact opposite reflecting nothing 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.200 but each other into Infinity but with 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.080 nothing for them to 00:23:21.320 --> 00:23:23.880 mirror then he goes on and on and on and 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.799 then he ends 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.600 with 00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:32.679 no truth no lie no river called the 00:23:32.679 --> 00:23:35.400 river of lives the deceiving river that 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.640 pretends to be the much larger River no 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.679 Japanese marriage agency ordering a 00:23:40.679 --> 00:23:42.600 bucket full of sand to be emptied out of 00:23:42.600 --> 00:23:44.679 a satellite so the bride can be 00:23:44.679 --> 00:23:47.320 astonished by a shower of meteorites no 00:23:47.320 --> 00:23:49.440 more twins living in separate bodies but 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.720 thinking and speaking in unison no parot 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.240 parrots from Alexander Von humble's 1802 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:58.760 Journey up to oronoko where he came to a 00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:01.039 village all of whose inhabitants had 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.559 been killed off by a plague their 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.240 language had died with them but the 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.400 neighboring Village had for the past 40 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.360 years continued to look after their 00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:14.240 parrot this parrot still spoke 60 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.200 distinct words of the inhabitants of a 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.559 dead Village their dead language humbal 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.200 copied them down in his notebook what if 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.159 we taught those words to two parrots and 00:24:24.159 --> 00:24:26.440 the two could Converse in them what if 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.399 we project ourselves far to the Future 00:24:28.399 --> 00:24:30.640 and imagine things that we've created 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.559 that still exist not forever but for 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:36.440 200,000 years let's say a time when 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.399 Humanity will almost certainly have died 00:24:38.399 --> 00:24:41.159 out but certain of our own monuments 00:24:41.159 --> 00:24:42.960 might still exist 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.320 indestructible the dam in the vajon 00:24:45.320 --> 00:24:47.880 gorge that with stod the vast Landslide 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.760 of 250 million cubic meters of rocks in 00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:54.039 Earth and gravel at its foot the dam is 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:56.159 28 meters thick and poured from 00:24:56.159 --> 00:24:58.520 specially hardened concrete 00:24:58.520 --> 00:25:00.720 this lower part would almost certainly 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.240 still be there standing majestically 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.000 without relaying any message no message 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:06.760 for 00:25:06.760 --> 00:25:09.159 anyone there at the foot of the smooth 00:25:09.159 --> 00:25:11.360 concrete wall there would be a crystal 00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:13.520 clear trickle of water from the rocks to 00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:16.039 the side it would be sought out by herds 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:17.880 of deer as 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:21.559 though and then it just 00:25:23.840 --> 00:25:26.200 stops and there's something in that 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.320 performance which speaks 00:25:29.320 --> 00:25:35.399 to uh what lasts and what's what's 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:40.760 lost and that something like a lyric 00:25:40.760 --> 00:25:44.960 culture is not something that imagines 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.399 itself to be 00:25:48.399 --> 00:25:52.200 Everlasting and so there wouldn't be 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.200 this 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.679 obsessive pursuit of 00:26:04.399 --> 00:26:08.760 of of culture you know of everlasting 00:26:08.760 --> 00:26:11.640 culture and then just to my check-in is 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.399 kind of long but um I'm I was 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.240 writing some notes on a conversation I'm 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:22.960 gonna have with 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.799 someone and I was thinking about like 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.640 we're in the middle of this the six Math 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.159 mass 00:26:31.159 --> 00:26:35.159 extinction and 00:26:35.159 --> 00:26:38.240 um and instead of looking at 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.679 that as a problem to be solved yes we 00:26:42.679 --> 00:26:45.120 are complicit but we're also entangled 00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:47.360 in it right we're entangled in the 00:26:47.360 --> 00:26:50.320 violence of the world uh we suffer our 00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:51.640 own 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.640 actions 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:58.520 and what if what if we faced it with a 00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:01.200 certain kind of clarity and the clarity 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.159 was is 00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:07.039 that 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.080 um in order for things to 00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:13.039 advance some things have to be taken out 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:16.679 of existence that's called 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.480 Extinction 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.360 and reading the end of his book was 00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:24.159 something like that you know it was like 00:27:24.159 --> 00:27:27.799 and the and then the whole ending is 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:30.080 just taken out of existence to perform 00:27:30.080 --> 00:27:32.640 what he was talking 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.039 about 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.159 um anyways those are my 00:27:38.159 --> 00:27:42.159 Reflections um and the final reflection 00:27:42.159 --> 00:27:44.279 which I guess is probably on everybody's 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:48.799 mind maybe not is the notion 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:53.120 of culture as culture class you know 00:27:53.120 --> 00:27:56.960 basically um every culture within its 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.760 own Contex context is a whole as a 00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:04.120 Gestalt um but 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.120 then it's very very difficult for 00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:09.440 cultures to 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.440 overlap uh certainly in time certainly 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:13.799 in 00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:17.200 territory um in 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.200 power 00:28:22.399 --> 00:28:26.279 um they seem to 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.919 be 00:28:28.919 --> 00:28:30.960 wrapped in very hard 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.679 shells and when you're on the inside 00:28:34.679 --> 00:28:40.440 that's that's a safe container right 00:28:41.320 --> 00:28:44.080 um but there there's these propulsion 00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:46.640 forces or 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.360 something just trying to look at what is 00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:54.000 and has been the 00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:59.399 case 00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:05.360 so the story of human culture uh begins 00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:08.080 with human culture begins with an image 00:29:08.080 --> 00:29:11.080 and a story of one's 00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:13.279 culture 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:18.840 um so it's both inclusive and and 00:29:26.320 --> 00:29:29.320 exclusive 00:29:49.399 --> 00:29:50.960 you said something there about being 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.840 exhausted exhaust or culture exhausting 00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:55.840 itself there's 00:29:55.840 --> 00:30:00.240 something I was there's a Israel rally 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.840 downtown I walked by it and I heard the 00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:06.799 guy speaking on a loudspeaker 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.919 and you know I guess he was I caught the 00:30:09.919 --> 00:30:13.559 end of his speech and it was kind of 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:17.279 the the feeling was sort of whe there he 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.600 said something about 00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:22.039 like he was talking about another rally 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:24.080 that was like Pro Hamas or something and 00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:25.919 he was like oh they covered their faces 00:30:25.919 --> 00:30:28.799 but we don't you know or whatever so 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.000 don't cover your faces you don't 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.640 whatever and just the feeling of that 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:34.559 was 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:40.159 like I felt exhausted about that it felt 00:30:40.159 --> 00:30:43.519 like very like combative and very Rah R 00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.320 raah and it was like H this again it was 00:30:47.320 --> 00:30:49.480 like I I was thinking about it I was 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:52.240 like I'm kind of bored of that like it 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.919 just seems boring and that seemed to be 00:30:56.919 --> 00:31:00.039 that kind kind of attitude seemed I felt 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:01.600 exhausted 00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:04.120 by yeah illich called that kind of 00:31:04.120 --> 00:31:08.799 speech viot types he says that you use a 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:12.200 certain word and an image comes with it 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:16.440 and then it controls the speech for all 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.399 time you know like like the image of the 00:31:19.399 --> 00:31:23.919 Palestinian woman with the you know head 00:31:23.919 --> 00:31:29.000 scarf or the image of the white man you 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.960 know or there so there's these little 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:35.960 cues that enter into the speech that 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:37.279 lock 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.679 down the possibility for conversation 00:31:40.679 --> 00:31:44.440 right so 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.600 um and 00:31:50.840 --> 00:31:54.159 that and that that that's you know what 00:31:54.159 --> 00:31:59.519 simulated speech or it's yeah it LO KN 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.559 down it isolates the conversation into 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:10.880 one meme let's say or one 00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.360 mode um and rallies 00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:17.960 are famous for that because they're a 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.360 rally you know like 2 00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:24.200 468 who do you want to eliminate or 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.639 whatever you know like they they 00:32:28.639 --> 00:32:32.320 their currency is in that kind 00:32:32.320 --> 00:32:35.840 of Rabel 00:32:55.120 --> 00:32:57.720 rousing Bonnie 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.880 for me there's something juicy 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.880 in and I'd love to see those in writing 00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:05.840 again so that I could really digest them 00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:10.120 the zi quote and the essayists response 00:33:10.120 --> 00:33:13.880 to that quote and I'm putting that on 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:18.440 top of what you said about 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:24.840 um the elimination of a a particular 00:33:24.840 --> 00:33:27.960 species in order to move forward and 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.080 progress the 00:33:30.080 --> 00:33:31.960 Epic 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:35.880 Dynamic and what's juicy for 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:40.559 me is this notion of rethinking 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.279 loss that was mentioned by zi in that 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.639 quote and it's juicy for me here if 00:33:49.639 --> 00:33:54.799 we're still trying to find a way to take 00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:58.600 our thinking and put it in our body 00:33:58.600 --> 00:34:01.760 I have lived a long life and experienced 00:34:01.760 --> 00:34:06.679 a lot of loss and I think I know about 00:34:06.679 --> 00:34:11.760 loss but rethinking in in my 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.960 body that's something I'm not quite sure 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.839 about yeah that's what I'm saying it's 00:34:21.839 --> 00:34:25.879 it's I'm not sure we can ever 00:34:25.879 --> 00:34:28.440 really 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:32.800 experience all of it and of course 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.200 um we're not meant to be be in despair 00:34:36.200 --> 00:34:38.359 either this 00:34:38.359 --> 00:34:43.159 is you know we we have these 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.639 as you know Jonathan rouson substack 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.320 article uh title joyous 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.760 struggle uh every man for himself and 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.520 got against all or something no it's 00:34:54.520 --> 00:34:57.720 like um but 00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:01.300 the magnitude of 00:35:01.300 --> 00:35:03.359 [Music] 00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:06.359 loss 00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:10.480 um there's two sides to it the magnitude 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.520 of loss it has the magnitude it has 00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:20.240 because we live our lives as if it's not 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:25.320 a first principle of reality right um I 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.119 mean we we know that everything is in 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.200 passing the season's pass your parents 00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:34.520 pass you're passing cultures p and we 00:35:34.520 --> 00:35:39.119 know this but we don't live as if that's 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:44.760 true um and 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:51.560 um there's also you know I'm we'll talk 00:35:51.560 --> 00:35:54.480 about this a little if you come to the 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.560 tempor um perspective 00:35:57.560 --> 00:36:00.560 or just watch the video 00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:02.240 um 00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:04.160 because 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:06.440 um I don't know everything we've been 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:08.160 talking about all year I'm I'm starting 00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.440 to sound like Matthew because it's all 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.480 just oh 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.440 geeez well that was weird you know what 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.800 an ice cream pain in your head feels 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:19.880 like I just got 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.640 one too much static electricity in my 00:36:23.640 --> 00:36:25.599 brain but it's like you know what you're 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:27.800 talking about pure abstractions they're 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.440 there and not there at the same 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.119 time well I had Layman Pascal and Tom 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.000 Murray were over here a couple weekends 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.400 ago and we were talking about that 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.040 phrase and then all of a sudden it did I 00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:44.839 say this last time anyways it hit me 00:36:44.839 --> 00:36:46.760 that 00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.240 like everything is there and not there 00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:51.960 at the same time like the mountain 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.760 eventually won't be there and there was 00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.480 a time when the mountain wasn't there 00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:57.599 it's just that it happens so 00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.440 slowly we don't experience its loss 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:02.960 unless you know they come and the Mone 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.000 company comes and takes it down or 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.000 something and I was playing around with 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.760 being in 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.480 this attitude 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:19.680 of seeing everything as being here and 00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:23.480 not here at the same time and it made 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.200 everything seem much more precious you 00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:31.000 know like like 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.000 uh that things are going to be taken out 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.280 of 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.079 existence I don't know what I'm saying 00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:46.680 but this temp 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.880 this law should not be 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.800 surprising and 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:57.160 yet even if it's not surprising it it 00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:59.680 comes with the same biomarker as we said 00:37:59.680 --> 00:38:02.280 you know I mean the capacity to and I 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.359 and that's the question that you you'll 00:38:04.359 --> 00:38:06.839 get a lot of her quotes because I'm 00:38:06.839 --> 00:38:10.960 writing a series on lyric culture um but 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:14.000 that's the that's the problem like it's 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.560 to be able to it's a philosophical 00:38:16.560 --> 00:38:18.880 problem of loss and having Clarity 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.520 around that and 00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:23.119 also 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.079 simultaneously being intimate seeing 00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:28.079 things perfectly being intimate and 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:33.040 loving them and 00:38:33.640 --> 00:38:37.000 um those two 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.640 things are very hard to do 00:38:40.640 --> 00:38:43.640 together 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:55.200 um so you know in many cases I think we 00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:58.480 turn to 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.319 despising despising things that we 00:39:01.319 --> 00:39:05.599 actually deep down 00:39:25.240 --> 00:39:27.680 love I listened 00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:32.760 to your first cohort and I felt like it 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.359 was was really moving 00:39:37.359 --> 00:39:42.760 and um I forget who was 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:46.880 saying um how this word 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:50.280 nature is 00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:55.440 just something that perpetuates the 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.119 separation 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.560 as if anything on this planet that I 00:40:00.560 --> 00:40:01.800 know 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.359 of is of this 00:40:05.359 --> 00:40:07.000 planet 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.440 okay and 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:17.560 um I was doing some reading on the PDFs 00:40:17.560 --> 00:40:19.560 that you 00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:23.160 shared and I just did 00:40:23.160 --> 00:40:28.079 this thing because you know at some 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:32.040 point there's a quote from herac 00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:35.800 heraclitus that says the fairest order 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:40.240 in the world is a heap of random 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:43.560 sweeping and 00:40:43.560 --> 00:40:47.480 uh that sort of gave me 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:49.400 permission and by the way I think 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.880 there's so much about this sort of perm 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.240 missionary movement that we need to 00:40:57.240 --> 00:40:58.400 sort 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.720 of think especially 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:06.240 intergenerationally at this 00:41:06.240 --> 00:41:08.680 time and 00:41:08.680 --> 00:41:13.440 um I I just kind of put all these things 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:14.880 in a Google 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:18.200 doc um as I was reading and then 00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:20.440 throwing other things in the middle I 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.079 mean the random sweep uh you 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:27.800 know and uh I don't know 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:30.599 if sui said 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:35.160 this or it was said about 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:39.640 lyric philosophy but to appreciate how 00:41:39.640 --> 00:41:43.240 our understanding can be limited by fear 00:41:43.240 --> 00:41:45.960 by a will to Mastery by a need to 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.640 control is to begin the learning and 00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:52.920 learning that constitutes the practice 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.520 of lyric 00:41:54.520 --> 00:41:57.319 philosophy what's expressed by the 00:41:57.319 --> 00:42:00.240 purposive arrangement of possibilities 00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:04.480 of resonance the purposive arrangement 00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.280 of possibilities of res 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.920 resonance is a lyric 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.720 thought supposed to know is more like to 00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:21.640 visit or cohabit than to 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:27.200 own and then there was this thing about 00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:31.200 her metaphors being poly 00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:34.480 dimensionality integrity and resonance 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:37.040 here comes the resonance 00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:40.280 again just as an ecologist attends to 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:43.160 the millions of organisms microorganisms 00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:45.000 and nonorganic 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:48.800 beings and processes that make the beach 00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:52.800 the living entity that it is so the 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:56.200 serious reader of integrated thought 00:42:56.200 --> 00:42:58.680 must pay attention to the micro 00:42:58.680 --> 00:43:01.839 components that produce that thought 00:43:01.839 --> 00:43:03.559 stability and 00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:06.640 integrity irrespective of the amount of 00:43:06.640 --> 00:43:10.520 study which it may itself require we 00:43:10.520 --> 00:43:13.440 must not lose sight of the fact that 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.079 it's only a part of the whole and if as 00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:21.200 the number of Dimensions grows we find 00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:24.520 increasing difficulty in comprehending 00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:26.839 all the different parts of the structure 00:43:26.839 --> 00:43:30.400 at the same time and we must exercise 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.119 great 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.839 patience lyric meaning resists summary 00:43:35.839 --> 00:43:39.680 and paraphrase as much as it resists 00:43:39.680 --> 00:43:43.200 analysis the method is not expository 00:43:43.200 --> 00:43:44.200 but 00:43:44.200 --> 00:43:47.839 inactive the essential tension between 00:43:47.839 --> 00:43:51.599 lyric desire and the capacity for 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.800 technology I thought this was an 00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.640 interesting thing to put Side by side 00:43:56.640 --> 00:43:59.640 because I sort of I'm sort of feeling it 00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:03.280 in the way I engage in 00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.599 these gatherings these these 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.880 bioluminescent Gatherings that's kind of 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:10.720 what I'm calling it even though I'm in 00:44:10.720 --> 00:44:13.960 the dark but see that makes a difference 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:18.040 um and then the ability to find things 00:44:18.040 --> 00:44:19.079 to 00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:21.839 forage you know there's something 00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:24.359 perhaps about this 00:44:24.359 --> 00:44:26.880 lyric um 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.400 culture that's 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.480 especially uh 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.359 um 00:44:36.359 --> 00:44:38.079 um 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.240 um good at at meeting not matching but 00:44:43.240 --> 00:44:45.839 meeting our 00:44:45.839 --> 00:44:50.760 our our experience this hybrid 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:54.319 experience which we're doing all the 00:44:54.319 --> 00:44:56.720 time I mean we 00:44:56.720 --> 00:44:59.160 our all our 00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:01.359 devices and 00:45:01.359 --> 00:45:06.640 then I'm going to post it this quote 00:45:06.640 --> 00:45:09.440 from Audrey 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.559 Lord came to mind as 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:21.599 somehow enacting 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:26.480 that for there are no new ideas they 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.079 only new ways of making them felt of 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.319 examining what those ideas feel like 00:45:33.319 --> 00:45:36.720 being lived on Sunday morning at 7 a.m. 00:45:36.720 --> 00:45:41.280 after brunch during wild love making War 00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.079 giving birth mourning our dead while we 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:47.079 suffer the old 00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:48.680 longings 00:45:48.680 --> 00:45:53.920 battle the old warnings and fears of 00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:58.599 being silent and impotent and alone and 00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:04.240 while we taste new possibilities and 00:46:08.040 --> 00:46:11.040 strengths 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:27.800 yeah 00:46:59.640 --> 00:47:01.920 I love this word resonance 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.839 Melina that really resonates with me and 00:47:05.839 --> 00:47:08.800 the word the dimension or the 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:11.160 multi-dimensionality and I see this up 00:47:11.160 --> 00:47:14.800 and down and what Bonnie started with is 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.599 this up and down and and this this 00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:20.839 movement of the grounding and like the 00:47:20.839 --> 00:47:22.960 boots in the ground boots in the mud and 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:25.319 step by step and then all of a sudden it 00:47:25.319 --> 00:47:27.200 all opens up in a 00:47:27.200 --> 00:47:30.839 way and I feel I think Ry was talking 00:47:30.839 --> 00:47:33.800 about um the language the intimacy and 00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:36.720 the trust and for me there's also like a 00:47:36.720 --> 00:47:39.000 joy and an innocence that comes with 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.079 that and I think that's what Justin 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:43.920 talked about innocence a lot and I feel 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.400 this innocence is also like a 00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.920 willingness to see the world as it is in 00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.280 this moment with us as bodies in 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:56.000 space and it's like an openness that 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.559 comes 00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:02.079 with with a willingness to see and and 00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:05.640 therefore a reality is being created in 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:09.480 this moment not based on what it was or 00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:13.599 how it will be but from this place 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:16.720 of yeah this place 00:48:16.720 --> 00:48:18.280 of 00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:20.839 relationship and Bonnie talked about 00:48:20.839 --> 00:48:23.559 soil and and when I think of the quality 00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:25.839 of the soil I feel what is the quality 00:48:25.839 --> 00:48:27.839 of the 00:48:27.839 --> 00:48:31.000 relationships how are we relating to 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:35.599 what is in this moment and can I can we 00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.880 hold more of it in this 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:40.400 multi-dimensional field and there's this 00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.040 resonance and there these are those in 00:48:43.040 --> 00:48:44.680 every dimension of it there are some 00:48:44.680 --> 00:48:48.640 attractor fields that are calling and 00:48:48.640 --> 00:48:51.960 can I be in relationship with that even 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.720 though it feels unnatural and it's and 00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:56.799 this is almost like the Attunement of 00:48:56.799 --> 00:48:59.359 the body to the attractor field in that 00:48:59.359 --> 00:49:02.079 Dimension and all of a sudden it's like 00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:04.559 this clicking in place and I can see or 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:07.559 I can feel I can be it and there's that 00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.119 new relationship that emerges from the 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:12.400 edges 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.359 and I'm thinking of this project that's 00:49:15.359 --> 00:49:16.839 actually being launched here in New 00:49:16.839 --> 00:49:19.760 Zealand about the the seeds I think it's 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.640 the Bill and Melinda Gates Association 00:49:22.640 --> 00:49:24.920 who are doing something with rice seeds 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.599 and manipul and bringing it back into 00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:29.839 India 00:49:29.839 --> 00:49:34.720 and my whole being it it just hurts it's 00:49:34.720 --> 00:49:39.559 like ah I'm I'm I wanna I just W to do 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:42.160 something but I don't know what to do 00:49:42.160 --> 00:49:45.280 because it's not my thing and it is my 00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:47.000 thing so that's the Duality or the 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.559 Paradox of it it's like there's the 00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:52.200 stream of the ocean but there's the 00:49:52.200 --> 00:49:54.760 undercurrent and I want to be part of 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:58.079 both I am both but I feel there has to 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:00.880 be like a an 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:03.359 attention to the undercurrent so there 00:50:03.359 --> 00:50:05.680 is a balancing out of it because some 00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:08.880 things are just I can see for the 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.280 generations to come that that is not the 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:13.160 right thing to do because my whole body 00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:16.440 is screaming it like leave the seeds put 00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:19.160 the focus on the soil right that's where 00:50:19.160 --> 00:50:21.680 we all start we start with the 00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:24.680 relationships and the soil and and the 00:50:24.680 --> 00:50:28.720 innocence and the joy and and and just 00:50:28.720 --> 00:50:31.200 whatever if we might not be here in 100 00:50:31.200 --> 00:50:34.640 or 200 years then you 00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:37.680 know the sadness comes from the past it 00:50:37.680 --> 00:50:39.440 does not come from the future it's the 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:41.760 same like wisdom you can always say 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:45.079 things about wisdom after you spoke not 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.400 about you cannot say oh this person is 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:50.480 wise In This Moment without actually 00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:52.440 hearing what he or she has to say it's 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:54.400 always afterwards that you say oh that 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:58.160 was wise or it's the same with this 00:50:58.160 --> 00:51:01.400 intergenerational creating of whatever 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:06.799 is emerging from us and I don't 00:51:24.359 --> 00:51:27.359 know 00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:45.760 yeah I've been sitting a lot with the 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:47.359 question of 00:51:47.359 --> 00:51:50.799 violence um and kind of this conflict 00:51:50.799 --> 00:51:54.240 happening and my moves are usually like 00:51:54.240 --> 00:51:56.599 where does this conflict exist inside of 00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.839 me and then also looking at 00:51:59.839 --> 00:52:03.160 um times I've had like close contact in 00:52:03.160 --> 00:52:06.760 in the natural world um thinking about 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:10.720 floods and lightning storms 00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:13.960 and this kind of ability for rate of 00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:17.760 change like floods and and wildfires 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.839 that just raise everything and the Deep 00:52:20.839 --> 00:52:23.079 loss of that but then also the 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:27.160 possibility that that affords and re 00:52:27.160 --> 00:52:30.000 reflecting on like near-death 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.559 experiences and and being really 00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:34.559 intimate or really close to 00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.240 Nature's intense powerful 00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:40.760 forces um and those beings some of the 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:42.760 scariest moments of my life but 00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.119 also um so there was like a loss of 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:49.280 Safety and Security um but then what was 00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:50.760 gained from that was like such a deep 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:55.599 deep humility and respect and awe um for 00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:57.119 these powers and this recognition that 00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:58.760 actually that is 00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:01.359 me massive lightning storms and and 00:53:01.359 --> 00:53:03.640 being kind of in the midst of it and 00:53:03.640 --> 00:53:06.319 like the awe the terror and going oh my 00:53:06.319 --> 00:53:08.680 God that's me and holy like I'm so 00:53:08.680 --> 00:53:11.280 small like I could be wiped out like 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.200 that um and that being a really really 00:53:14.200 --> 00:53:16.079 important thing to feel in my body and 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:19.079 to experience so kind of going back to 00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:24.720 this um notion of loss and gain um is 00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:26.119 that really you know how does that 00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:28.520 really work everything kind of gives and 00:53:28.520 --> 00:53:31.000 takes um from each other and then and 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.599 then sitting more with this inquiry 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:35.400 about um what what's the right kind of 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:36.839 violence like where does violence fit 00:53:36.839 --> 00:53:40.000 into our culture and and how do we work 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:43.839 with that in a productive 00:53:44.720 --> 00:53:48.079 way yeah and you know it just I occurred 00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:50.799 to me that and I have been writing about 00:53:50.799 --> 00:53:53.000 it already that well you were going into 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:57.160 this notion of the moral animal 00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:02.200 and you know if you think of the 00:54:02.200 --> 00:54:06.160 discourse around the Israeli 00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:09.160 Hamas 00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:11.680 conflict what what would I what term 00:54:11.680 --> 00:54:13.599 would I use if I didn't want to use the 00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:16.359 term of the Israeli people I don't 00:54:16.359 --> 00:54:18.200 know 00:54:18.200 --> 00:54:21.000 um you know they're they're they're so 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.880 entangled you know we've been trying to 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:24.720 last module we tried to write an origin 00:54:24.720 --> 00:54:26.720 story like what and then you could say 00:54:26.720 --> 00:54:28.839 where where did the origin of the war 00:54:28.839 --> 00:54:32.040 begin it it has no beginning I mean you 00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:33.119 have all 00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:36.920 these conflicting stories and you know 00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:39.319 the British were there after World War 00:54:39.319 --> 00:54:42.760 II and then they they fought a war 00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:44.720 against the British and I heard someone 00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:48.559 say the other day Germany wanted to make 00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:51.040 you know reparations so they found 00:54:51.040 --> 00:54:53.599 Israel a nice little place to live like 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:56.400 you know like and then you get these 00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:58.720 stories and I was Googling like where do 00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:00.839 the where do the Palestinian people come 00:55:00.839 --> 00:55:02.440 from well they don't come from any they 00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:04.040 come from Africa or something like you 00:55:04.040 --> 00:55:05.359 know what I'm saying it's like at a 00:55:05.359 --> 00:55:07.839 certain point all these cultural stories 00:55:07.839 --> 00:55:12.359 they pick a spot to say this is the 00:55:12.359 --> 00:55:17.640 story you know and um and we notice that 00:55:17.640 --> 00:55:20.359 this is the this is a problem with 00:55:20.359 --> 00:55:23.280 origins in origin stories in 00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:27.880 general epistemic con straints um but 00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:31.160 you know we can so but what what happens 00:55:31.160 --> 00:55:34.760 also in these these conversations if you 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:36.880 can you listen to it it's very obvious 00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:39.839 what I'm going to say but it's like 00:55:39.839 --> 00:55:42.599 there's there's everything is Quantified 00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.640 like equal response like you killed this 00:55:45.640 --> 00:55:47.000 number of people what's an equal 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:50.000 response or like the the Ledger 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:53.960 you know it's like who owes you know we 00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:55.920 talked about this and and because I 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.079 don't I don't want to make this a a 00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.160 specifically um complaint about uh the 00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:02.640 Jewish religion because we talked about 00:56:02.640 --> 00:56:04.920 it in the Catholic religion like 00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.160 you born and you owe a debt like this 00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:11.400 this Ledger thing that permeates 00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:13.799 our moral and ethical 00:56:13.799 --> 00:56:17.400 conversations is so antithetical to 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:22.200 relationship right and um 00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:27.480 and the the the are cultures that are 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:31.359 so entangled you could never tease you 00:56:31.359 --> 00:56:33.880 could never tease them apart any again 00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:35.400 you know and that doesn't mean they're 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.200 so entangled they're beautiful they're 00:56:37.200 --> 00:56:40.359 so entangled it's it's it's a tragedy 00:56:40.359 --> 00:56:42.200 you know it's like a 00:56:42.200 --> 00:56:45.720 Shakespearean play where 00:56:45.720 --> 00:56:49.319 where every movement of my right arm is 00:56:49.319 --> 00:56:52.520 going to be it's going to move my left 00:56:52.520 --> 00:56:56.880 arm and and 00:57:00.319 --> 00:57:02.440 at a certain from a certain perspective 00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:04.280 this is so 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.839 obvious that you would think that um you 00:57:07.839 --> 00:57:10.559 know it's just it's just so obvious it's 00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:13.839 a hard constraint 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.000 so 00:57:23.359 --> 00:57:25.760 um yeah this notion of complete 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:29.599 entanglement if if if the if the if the 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.760 Israelis killed every single one of 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:32.760 their 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:35.720 enemies and flourished as a modern 00:57:35.720 --> 00:57:37.640 culture in a safe 00:57:37.640 --> 00:57:39.760 environment that would have so much 00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.520 cultural trauma that would never go it 00:57:42.520 --> 00:57:44.880 doesn't go away the 00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:50.880 entanglement has to be honored for its 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:52.599 complexity 00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:56.799 um and 00:57:56.910 --> 00:58:00.020 [Music] 00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:11.240 um 00:58:11.240 --> 00:58:13.680 yeah and this is true of course of 00:58:13.680 --> 00:58:17.440 everything the way we're entangled with 00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:26.720 nature 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:29.440 we're entangled with our bodies we're 00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:31.119 entangled with the environment we're 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:33.960 entangled with our culture we these 00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:35.400 these 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.839 entanglements 00:58:37.839 --> 00:58:40.839 um 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.400 yeah the only cultures that are not no 00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:49.200 longer entangled are the ones that are 00:58:49.200 --> 00:58:52.640 in Gone in extinct and they're still 00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:56.720 entangled in 00:58:56.880 --> 00:58:59.799 the other cultures you 00:58:59.799 --> 00:59:02.119 know it's like I don't know why I did 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:03.400 this 00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:06.119 but I mean I knew this but I hadn't 00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.280 thought about it in a long time so I 00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:11.880 Googled like what North America looked 00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:14.280 like before the Mexican American War 00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:17.799 right I mean they Mexico owned all of 00:59:17.799 --> 00:59:21.319 California all of Arizona all of Texas 00:59:21.319 --> 00:59:22.480 parts of 00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:25.200 Oklahoma right and they like 00:59:25.200 --> 00:59:27.039 Americans walk around and wonder why 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:29.079 there's so many Latinos in the United 00:59:29.079 --> 00:59:31.440 States like they've taken over the whole 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.880 south of America well there's a lot of 00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:37.359 Latinos because it's the opposite 00:59:37.359 --> 00:59:39.760 there's a lot of Latinos in California 00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:41.599 and Arizona not only because they come 00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:43.440 over here but they come over here 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.359 because like this was 00:59:46.359 --> 00:59:50.000 Mexico like and it's not even it's not 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.640 even in young people's Consciousness 00:59:53.640 --> 00:59:56.079 anymore 00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:57.880 people think that the Mexican-American 00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:01.359 War was fought at the Rio Grand to keep 01:00:01.359 --> 01:00:04.200 Mexico down 01:00:04.359 --> 01:00:08.559 there so it's like these That's How 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:12.319 culture you know these in in stories in 01:00:12.319 --> 01:00:16.680 imaginary world 01:00:18.520 --> 01:00:21.559 um and of course who was there 01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:26.160 before the quote unquote Mexicans right 01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:28.960 it doesn't there is no there is no 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.720 square one to these stories because 01:00:31.720 --> 01:00:33.799 they're imaginary 01:00:33.799 --> 01:00:36.160 really there's something real that 01:00:36.160 --> 01:00:37.680 happened 01:00:37.680 --> 01:00:41.880 but when they get in story they 01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:45.880 get Frozen in 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:49.559 time I have a question for you 01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.559 Bonnie 01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:57.680 um you had that appetite to find out 01:00:57.680 --> 01:00:59.880 about the 01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:03.680 map um how long did it take 01:01:03.680 --> 01:01:08.200 you to Google it like yeah I don't know 01:01:08.200 --> 01:01:10.599 10 01:01:11.520 --> 01:01:13.160 seconds 01:01:13.160 --> 01:01:17.880 well can we look at what have we here I 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:19.319 mean 01:01:19.319 --> 01:01:21.720 because I mean I grew up in a country 01:01:21.720 --> 01:01:23.440 with no public 01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:26.920 libraries and I'm not trying to you know 01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:31.240 make comparisons but I physically feel 01:01:31.240 --> 01:01:35.520 in my body when I do a search like I 01:01:35.520 --> 01:01:38.160 just did to put 01:01:38.160 --> 01:01:41.720 this quote from as you like it because I 01:01:41.720 --> 01:01:45.319 remembered only that it was we rip and 01:01:45.319 --> 01:01:51.279 rot you know and thereby hangs a tail um 01:01:51.279 --> 01:01:54.960 and I found it in a split second and so 01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:58.920 I'm just curious I mean intensely 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:02.079 curious um 01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:04.279 if we're really 01:02:04.279 --> 01:02:07.680 moving through 01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:12.240 this new paradigm I'm going to call it 01:02:12.240 --> 01:02:13.799 myelon 01:02:13.799 --> 01:02:17.119 um in terms of how things can be 01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:19.680 connected in instance and they're 01:02:19.680 --> 01:02:21.839 connected to so many other 01:02:21.839 --> 01:02:28.680 things um that but the past at least 500 01:02:28.680 --> 01:02:31.799 years have been another 01:02:31.799 --> 01:02:36.039 Paradigm which was Gutenberg and 01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:39.000 gunpowder kind of you 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.960 know 01:02:41.960 --> 01:02:45.240 um when we talk about 01:02:45.240 --> 01:02:49.799 education like Claudia you know sort of 01:02:49.799 --> 01:02:52.079 hesitated you know said no no no this 01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:53.039 one's 01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:56.920 important I I think part of it is that I 01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:59.720 mean we are in the presence of or at 01:02:59.720 --> 01:03:05.039 least I am around here of melian natives 01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:06.440 let's 01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:08.599 say and we're 01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:10.200 still 01:03:10.200 --> 01:03:14.800 suffocating them with our gunpowder 01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:17.000 [Music] 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:19.599 Gutenberg 01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:25.039 logic you know and I think that you 01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:29.000 reing for this lyric philosophy lyric 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:34.039 culture and lyric cultural renewal is is 01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:35.880 I 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:38.680 think matching 01:03:38.680 --> 01:03:42.400 more the way it's no longer about 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:47.599 overarching stories or or or overarching 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:50.559 narratives but 01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:53.680 Explorations because we have this necro 01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:57.480 mass of archives that at least for now 01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:01.000 is is available to us in an absolutely 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:02.880 unprecedented 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.520 way 01:04:04.520 --> 01:04:08.880 and again this is not like some 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:12.839 techno you know Utopia it's more 01:04:12.839 --> 01:04:17.079 that I think we really don't know what's 01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:20.279 possible between 01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:25.000 us and every time I look 01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:27.119 a this 01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:30.559 these rectangles and I just think 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:33.920 about how impossible this is you know 01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:37.039 somebody in Australia somebody in the US 01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:39.039 somebody in New Zealand somebody in 01:04:39.039 --> 01:04:42.079 London somebody in and I'm like this has 01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:45.880 got to be changing our how our organisms 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:47.319 learn how to 01:04:47.319 --> 01:04:50.160 evolve there not something separate from 01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:52.319 all this but it's 01:04:52.319 --> 01:04:54.880 already shifting and I'm just going to 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:58.480 add a trivial thing but this summer I 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.599 think it was particularly dry and so for 01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:04.319 the first time in my studio I had 01:05:04.319 --> 01:05:07.599 ants and I did the sort of natural thing 01:05:07.599 --> 01:05:12.039 of putting vinegar you know whatever um 01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:15.480 and uh you know eventually they left I 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:17.599 don't know if it had anything to do with 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:21.760 what I did but they ceased to be all 01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:26.440 over but if I leave one crumb on top of 01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:29.400 my kitchen counter they 01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:32.160 appear out of 01:05:32.160 --> 01:05:35.480 nowhere and I'm I started to look at 01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:40.440 that with such honestly Delight I'm like 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:42.440 What's the difference between these ants 01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:46.440 and me following following crumbs in my 01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:49.440 foraging you know it's like at the end 01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:52.119 of the day if I had to explain to people 01:05:52.119 --> 01:05:56.000 where I've been which between you Bonita 01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:01.039 and and Nora and Aaron Manning and you 01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:03.200 know all this all these other things 01:06:03.200 --> 01:06:08.319 that I'm I'm acting like those ants you 01:06:08.319 --> 01:06:10.960 know and so I 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.760 just I don't know I 01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:16.880 think this why I like this audre Lord 01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:20.279 quote because it's like while we suffer 01:06:20.279 --> 01:06:24.200 the old longings battle the old warnings 01:06:24.200 --> 01:06:27.079 and fears of being silent and impotent 01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:29.960 and alone while we 01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:33.520 taste new possibilities and 01:06:33.520 --> 01:06:36.480 strength you know and I think you know 01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:40.240 David's like one of the Prime kind of 01:06:40.240 --> 01:06:42.279 manifestations of 01:06:42.279 --> 01:06:48.240 that he just throws himself into this 01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:51.760 casting and I I know I I knew my 01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:54.119 great-grandfather and there's no way 01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:57.599 that he'd be doing it that way he was 01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:00.880 fighting cuz he defended the Germans and 01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:03.720 and his best friend you know stopped 01:07:03.720 --> 01:07:06.520 talking to him and that was the drama 01:07:06.520 --> 01:07:08.960 for about 25 01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:13.000 years in a small 01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:20.000 town so I don't know I just I need 01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:27.119 to I need your 01:07:32.319 --> 01:07:35.599 help to 01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:41.119 somehow at least accompany some of these 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:45.960 thoughts so that I don't think it's some 01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.760 hallucinatory you know hopeful monster 01:07:48.760 --> 01:07:51.160 kind of 01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:55.920 thing 01:08:11.359 --> 01:08:14.440 I think somewhere in your quote what 01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:16.120 you're reading you know there's this 01:08:16.120 --> 01:08:17.880 emphasis on patience I think the 01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:20.960 patience part is really 01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:22.839 hard 01:08:22.839 --> 01:08:24.960 um 01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:27.839 especially when you start to get a sense 01:08:27.839 --> 01:08:30.359 that something is possible and then you 01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:32.000 want to like make it a 01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:34.000 wrap wrap it 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.000 up 01:08:52.799 --> 01:08:55.799 and 01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:58.759 and you know it's weird because you 01:08:58.759 --> 01:09:01.159 start to realize that you made it all 01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.239 the way here whatever that means for 01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:06.319 each of you here right now not actually 01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:09.759 knowing what you were doing or how how 01:09:09.759 --> 01:09:12.040 how you how you are doing 01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:15.279 it then you get this little vision of 01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:16.759 what is 01:09:16.759 --> 01:09:20.080 possible and you have to reconcile with 01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:22.960 that with now to get from here to there 01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:24.679 you have to continue you not knowing 01:09:24.679 --> 01:09:27.159 what you're doing you know 01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:30.120 like like because the methodology has 01:09:30.120 --> 01:09:33.520 proved itself uh to be 01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:37.960 useful um 01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:43.480 and and so that that that I would call 01:09:43.480 --> 01:09:49.560 it interregnum is hard I think um it's 01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:53.159 hard not to slip back into Old tactics 01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:54.440 because you can see see you can start to 01:09:54.440 --> 01:09:56.920 see it now so so it becomes an it and 01:09:56.920 --> 01:10:00.000 then you can get your ducks in a row and 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:05.679 make it happen um and I'm reminded of 01:10:05.679 --> 01:10:09.080 that quote from Christopher Alexander in 01:10:09.080 --> 01:10:11.719 the in The Parallax course it's on the 01:10:11.719 --> 01:10:14.520 recordings if if you are a paid 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.000 subscriber but where he talks about the 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:21.679 unselfconscious architect right um You 01:10:21.679 --> 01:10:22.640 you're 01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:24.199 only 01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:27.199 the the the larger the larger forces are 01:10:27.199 --> 01:10:29.520 in 01:10:30.120 --> 01:10:33.800 Dynamic relation all the time and you 01:10:33.800 --> 01:10:38.640 can't get outside and steer them 01:10:39.239 --> 01:10:43.679 um you can only solve local problems you 01:10:43.679 --> 01:10:44.760 know 01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.760 so 01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:52.640 um 01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:55.640 yeah 01:11:00.040 --> 01:11:03.640 and you know and I think the more we 01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:05.960 talk together the 01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:08.520 more like I'm sure that the 01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:10.640 conversations that CL ofia have have 01:11:10.640 --> 01:11:13.080 shifted they may not be satisfactory but 01:11:13.080 --> 01:11:15.600 they've probably shifted from the way I 01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:19.280 used to talk about 01:11:19.280 --> 01:11:22.120 projects um and again that can be very 01:11:22.120 --> 01:11:25.440 frustrating to people because 01:11:25.440 --> 01:11:28.040 because of the kind of patience you know 01:11:28.040 --> 01:11:29.000 because you're 01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.800 basically the subtext is yeah we're 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:34.600 going to do this project uh not knowing 01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:36.040 how we're going to do it kind of thing 01:11:36.040 --> 01:11:40.400 you know this is not easy 01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:43.159 to 01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:46.080 yeah yeah that's exactly right 01:11:46.080 --> 01:11:48.639 um Bonita and it is frustration because 01:11:48.639 --> 01:11:50.159 we it is frustrating because we kind of 01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.560 want action right um we kind of want 01:11:53.560 --> 01:11:55.840 want to do something but that just then 01:11:55.840 --> 01:12:00.840 you know we we can't do that 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:04.080 um we could maybe create 01:12:04.080 --> 01:12:06.280 context 01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:09.760 um and that requires patience actually 01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:15.000 um we could maybe articulate a vision 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.480 of what we 01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:25.199 trust you know we can maybe say 01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:29.480 experimentation is welcome you know 01:12:29.480 --> 01:12:31.719 um so that's why I quite like this 01:12:31.719 --> 01:12:35.400 culture word because culture feels a bit 01:12:35.400 --> 01:12:38.000 like kind of like a 01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:41.800 context maybe 01:12:42.360 --> 01:12:45.520 um so yeah you the language has really 01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:46.840 really 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:51.520 changed um from let's do this and here's 01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:55.960 the action um that we must take you know 01:12:55.960 --> 01:12:59.000 to to this this other thing at least you 01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:02.280 learned you know Anna she's in despair 01:13:02.280 --> 01:13:04.960 because you know Bill Gates and Company 01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:07.159 they they just they haven't learned yet 01:13:07.159 --> 01:13:09.520 they haven't learned that all of that is 01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:13.040 like a false prophet you know like you 01:13:13.040 --> 01:13:15.760 you should go back to your team and and 01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:18.199 and recognize that at least we know that 01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:20.719 like all those things they just don't 01:13:20.719 --> 01:13:24.320 work you know things are too in Tangled 01:13:24.320 --> 01:13:26.760 now 01:13:26.760 --> 01:13:29.120 um and if you think about it they don't 01:13:29.120 --> 01:13:33.320 even work across huge power divides I 01:13:33.320 --> 01:13:37.360 mean Israel is much more hugely 01:13:37.360 --> 01:13:41.800 resourced than Palestine and it doesn't 01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:45.800 work you know you can't in in this in 01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:51.480 this entangled world we have 01:13:51.480 --> 01:13:54.040 um you know you could You could argue 01:13:54.040 --> 01:13:56.280 that human technology is much more 01:13:56.280 --> 01:13:58.159 powerful we have the power of gods as 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.080 these guys say uh nature is powerless 01:14:01.080 --> 01:14:03.600 but it still doesn't work because at the 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:05.800 end Nature's like you I'll take all 01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:07.760 the oxygen out of the air you how 01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:10.600 do you like that like it just doesn't 01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:13.199 work it doesn't even work across these 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:17.159 huge power divides you know 01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:20.320 um um which has its positive and its 01:14:20.320 --> 01:14:21.800 negative you know there's a lot of 01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:24.080 deviant forces in the 01:14:24.080 --> 01:14:28.199 us uh which are destabilizing because 01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:31.000 people without power understand that it 01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:33.360 doesn't 01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:38.040 matter that you can just with 01:14:38.040 --> 01:14:40.080 things and things up and then you 01:14:40.080 --> 01:14:43.159 got people like Elon Musk who's got a 01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:46.040 lot of power who can keep distorting the 01:14:46.040 --> 01:14:52.199 reality of people and it and it's a 01:14:52.280 --> 01:14:55.280 very 01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:01.679 you know it's it's a hard lesson to 01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:15.520 learn uh what's operative for me Claudia 01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:18.880 is you still have the arousal to do 01:15:18.880 --> 01:15:21.800 something you still have it I hear it I 01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:23.719 feel you still have the 01:15:23.719 --> 01:15:26.760 arousal and I have the arousal to help 01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:29.679 Melena right now and I don't know if 01:15:29.679 --> 01:15:31.800 what I'm going to say will 01:15:31.800 --> 01:15:36.920 help but this idea of honoring just 01:15:36.920 --> 01:15:39.480 honoring the entanglement brought up an 01:15:39.480 --> 01:15:43.560 image for me of you know these 01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:47.600 um gold chains these small gold link 01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:51.560 chains that get all tangled 01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:54.440 up 01:15:54.440 --> 01:15:58.239 there's no way I sit and just honor the 01:15:58.239 --> 01:16:01.679 entanglement there's no 01:16:01.679 --> 01:16:05.719 way yeah sometimes I got to be patient 01:16:05.719 --> 01:16:09.239 and play and not know what I'm doing and 01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:11.960 but there's no way I can just let that 01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:17.520 piece of gold sit over there for very 01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:19.400 long 01:16:19.400 --> 01:16:23.840 so matalina why do I jump 01:16:23.840 --> 01:16:25.440 feet first 01:16:25.440 --> 01:16:28.360 in head first 01:16:28.360 --> 01:16:32.840 in because I honor the 01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:36.679 arousal not the outcome not the 01:16:36.679 --> 01:16:40.639 longing just that 01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:47.560 arousal I don't know if that helps 01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:52.080 mental 01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:57.360 it's I I think that's exactly where I 01:16:57.360 --> 01:17:00.800 mean because the presumption has been I 01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:04.639 think all right I'm going to try to 01:17:04.639 --> 01:17:07.520 articulate this 01:17:07.520 --> 01:17:13.040 differ human species crossed the 01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:18.480 threshold on August 6 01:17:19.320 --> 01:17:22.000 1945 and I think we've been 01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:24.040 repressing 01:17:24.040 --> 01:17:26.360 that ever 01:17:26.360 --> 01:17:30.120 since with Collective talk about 01:17:30.120 --> 01:17:32.440 collective 01:17:32.440 --> 01:17:37.719 intelligence and the answer to that 01:17:38.760 --> 01:17:40.760 Doom 01:17:40.760 --> 01:17:46.120 that I don't see how it's going to go 01:17:47.040 --> 01:17:50.320 away has 01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:54.159 been 01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:58.760 the mad you know mutually assured 01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:03.280 destruction translating into hyper 01:18:03.280 --> 01:18:06.560 consumerism and after the fall of the 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:09.719 wall of Berlin it became the sad self 01:18:09.719 --> 01:18:14.280 assured destruction okay but it's still 01:18:14.280 --> 01:18:16.880 relating to the same kind 01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:19.679 of punctuated 01:18:19.679 --> 01:18:22.760 equilibrium that if we continue thinking 01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:25.840 the way we are 01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:28.920 thinking we've already peaked and we 01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:30.800 peaked 01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:33.800 at 01:18:34.280 --> 01:18:37.080 self-termination and I think people 01:18:37.080 --> 01:18:40.719 like the early cyberneticians that's 01:18:40.719 --> 01:18:43.840 what made them gather at the Macy 01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:47.239 conference it was like holy we've 01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:51.520 got to think differently and yet we keep 01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:56.360 bringing back this reflex of of 01:18:56.360 --> 01:19:03.600 of you know it's such a reflex that's so 01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:07.719 monocultural like the like the rice 01:19:07.719 --> 01:19:09.440 thing 01:19:09.440 --> 01:19:11.600 and I'm not 01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:14.280 looking for Alternatives I think they're 01:19:14.280 --> 01:19:17.159 already here because everything that had 01:19:17.159 --> 01:19:20.120 to happen has already 01:19:20.120 --> 01:19:24.000 happened it's already happened 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:28.360 it was unevenly and is unevenly 01:19:28.360 --> 01:19:31.719 distributed but maybe now that we 01:19:31.719 --> 01:19:36.080 are you know filamentous 01:19:36.080 --> 01:19:39.000 Le 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:42.679 resonating so we can't just close 01:19:42.679 --> 01:19:46.639 ourselves up and sit in an 01:19:46.639 --> 01:19:49.320 armchair and 01:19:49.320 --> 01:19:53.199 philosophies I mean some still do but 01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:56.199 you know and I think that that's what I 01:19:56.199 --> 01:19:59.080 feel in 01:19:59.080 --> 01:20:05.120 zi just she's she's pointing to 01:20:05.120 --> 01:20:08.000 the to this 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.639 filamentous call it lyrical but it's 01:20:11.639 --> 01:20:14.679 filamentous to me 01:20:14.679 --> 01:20:18.239 okay has a 01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:23.880 fality and and it can 01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:29.120 swing the micro to the 01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:34.199 macro because of the way it's 01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:36.040 all 01:20:36.040 --> 01:20:39.440 entangled but it is it's just like how 01:20:39.440 --> 01:20:42.600 these ants find that crumb you know they 01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:47.159 just know it and I have that capacity to 01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:50.280 I'm going to believe I do 01:20:50.280 --> 01:20:55.440 okay I don't think I'd be here if I 01:20:59.400 --> 01:21:04.800 didn't because it's kind of crazy to be 01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:09.360 here and again it reminds me of Adrien 01:21:09.360 --> 01:21:12.480 Rich when she says 01:21:12.480 --> 01:21:15.440 um I think it's in her 01:21:15.440 --> 01:21:19.400 60th that she knows experience can 01:21:19.400 --> 01:21:21.639 devour 01:21:21.639 --> 01:21:25.800 language poetry is the refusal to kill 01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:27.000 or be 01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:30.639 killed but this 01:21:30.639 --> 01:21:35.040 continuing is for the sane mad and the 01:21:35.040 --> 01:21:38.120 bravest of Monsters can't believe I just 01:21:38.120 --> 01:21:39.520 remembered all 01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:43.440 that but I think it's pretty 01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:54.360 close and it's finding the others 01:21:54.360 --> 01:21:58.159 and now you guys are with me when I go 01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:02.239 for a walk here 01:22:04.280 --> 01:22:06.560 okay or 01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:10.840 when you know I have to respond to 01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:12.639 something I would have thought was 01:22:12.639 --> 01:22:14.440 impossible 01:22:14.440 --> 01:22:18.400 before I can reach to something 01:22:18.400 --> 01:22:21.080 else I can I 01:22:21.080 --> 01:22:24.719 can I I you know I mean your your 01:22:24.719 --> 01:22:27.199 workshop on the tools of conviviality 01:22:27.199 --> 01:22:31.159 it's like I I've dedicated at least two 01:22:31.159 --> 01:22:34.880 three hours a day since just going 01:22:34.880 --> 01:22:36.679 through all the material that you put 01:22:36.679 --> 01:22:41.159 together I mean the generosity of that 01:22:41.159 --> 01:22:44.600 okay where where would that be happening 01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:47.480 you know in academic institutions you 01:22:47.480 --> 01:22:50.280 know that that are happening right now 01:22:50.280 --> 01:22:51.560 in that 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:53.960 way 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:59.360 okay I just I need I need to feel that 01:22:59.360 --> 01:23:03.480 I'm not just being incredibly selective 01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:06.760 about the 01:23:07.080 --> 01:23:11.320 reality that I choose to pay attention 01:23:11.320 --> 01:23:14.000 to and yet you know 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:17.520 what autism 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:20.639 okay as a place to begin 01:23:20.639 --> 01:23:23.800 again because I think think the kind of 01:23:23.800 --> 01:23:25.679 narrow 01:23:25.679 --> 01:23:27.320 impairment 01:23:27.320 --> 01:23:30.080 that has been 01:23:30.080 --> 01:23:33.520 forced by this 01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:36.480 industrialization of 01:23:36.480 --> 01:23:39.480 arousal 01:23:39.719 --> 01:23:42.600 okay you 01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:45.600 know 01:23:47.560 --> 01:23:51.120 yeah sorry I'm kind 01:23:51.120 --> 01:23:54.480 of yeah 01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:03.719 one other the things we can 01:24:03.719 --> 01:24:06.840 do is 01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:08.760 [Music] 01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:12.400 um you know in our daily lives outside 01:24:12.400 --> 01:24:16.040 of this context is look for 01:24:16.199 --> 01:24:20.920 signs signs that things are 01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:24.360 happening 01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:29.760 um because recently as I said there are 01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:31.920 some interesting 01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:36.080 synchronicities that are coming down the 01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:41.600 pike 01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:43.920 and 01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:48.400 since we want to be putting out more 01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:53.840 breadcrumbs um 01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:56.040 just yeah just look for 01:24:56.040 --> 01:25:00.800 some signs that 01:25:07.480 --> 01:25:09.880 uh because I'm kind of on the lookout 01:25:09.880 --> 01:25:12.800 for signs right 01:25:18.440 --> 01:25:21.280 now one happened this 01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:25.480 morning cuz I was asked to go open the 01:25:25.480 --> 01:25:28.920 gate to the ruined school I mean it's a 01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:32.199 school that's a ruin from 01:25:32.199 --> 01:25:34.239 2008 and 01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:40.360 um I saw Wendy who's actual teacher come 01:25:40.360 --> 01:25:43.639 in a little late and she 01:25:43.639 --> 01:25:47.880 got accosted by one of the parents that 01:25:47.880 --> 01:25:50.520 other parents say is 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:52.920 difficult and his 01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:55.920 in the Israeli Community 01:25:55.920 --> 01:26:01.239 here um and he was just 01:26:01.239 --> 01:26:05.320 outraged because he hadn't met me so who 01:26:05.320 --> 01:26:08.560 was I to be opening the door and you 01:26:08.560 --> 01:26:12.040 know whatever it just escalated 01:26:12.040 --> 01:26:14.400 schismogenesis 01:26:14.400 --> 01:26:18.719 immediately and um we 01:26:18.719 --> 01:26:22.719 were just quiet and I told wend he just 01:26:22.719 --> 01:26:25.239 just let me do this because you know 01:26:25.239 --> 01:26:28.800 she's the teacher I can I'm Expendable 01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:29.840 I'm 01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:33.560 disposable and and I I really thought 01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:36.800 about the 01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:40.280 dispositionality you know I and and for 01:26:40.280 --> 01:26:43.400 that I had to be silent and he's just 01:26:43.400 --> 01:26:46.119 looking at 01:26:46.560 --> 01:26:51.199 me and I continued to be 01:26:51.199 --> 01:26:54.320 silent and it was like 01:26:54.320 --> 01:26:59.560 five it felt like 5 minutes at 01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:02.800 least and then he put his head down and 01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:08.000 he said I'm really 01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:12.199 stressed his mother had fallen broken a 01:27:12.199 --> 01:27:16.760 hip and he had to fly to Israel 01:27:16.760 --> 01:27:19.760 right 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:22.840 now 01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:24.360 you 01:27:24.360 --> 01:27:28.719 know so the signs I want to give back to 01:27:28.719 --> 01:27:29.560 you 01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:32.639 Bonita because of how hard you 01:27:32.639 --> 01:27:38.040 work okay and toil at this 01:27:38.040 --> 01:27:42.679 soil okay you really 01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:46.480 toil I know you 01:27:46.480 --> 01:27:50.199 do and I'll never 01:27:50.920 --> 01:27:55.199 know the signs are coming from within me 01:27:55.199 --> 01:27:58.960 and from the outside those are signs but 01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:02.199 the ones I can really testify to are the 01:28:02.199 --> 01:28:05.600 ones that are coming from 01:28:13.400 --> 01:28:15.800 within yeah you know for me that 01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:18.480 conviviality course was was 01:28:18.480 --> 01:28:20.960 interesting um there there's a couple of 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:22.639 decisions that I've made you know 01:28:22.639 --> 01:28:23.560 they're 01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:26.639 they're relatively small like that 01:28:26.639 --> 01:28:29.239 encounter but they're me big meaning in 01:28:29.239 --> 01:28:36.199 meaning um that I've made uh because you 01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:39.440 know when I was emphasizing the Good 01:28:39.440 --> 01:28:41.639 Samaritan the religious impulse of Good 01:28:41.639 --> 01:28:43.840 Samaritan and I found 01:28:43.840 --> 01:28:45.679 myself 01:28:45.679 --> 01:28:49.800 making easily making decisions that 01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:52.560 would have previously surprised urised 01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:55.119 my me because I kind of talked myself 01:28:55.119 --> 01:28:57.199 into that by giving that chorus you know 01:28:57.199 --> 01:28:59.080 like because remember at the end I was 01:28:59.080 --> 01:29:01.840 like I'm channeling ill now you know and 01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:05.520 I'm and 01:29:06.040 --> 01:29:09.760 um and absolutely and then when I'm when 01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:13.159 that that happened to me on the inside 01:29:13.159 --> 01:29:15.520 at the same time I was starting to write 01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:18.400 something then an email came in from the 01:29:18.400 --> 01:29:20.080 person I was thinking 01:29:20.080 --> 01:29:22.520 about um 01:29:22.520 --> 01:29:25.280 who is you know the Good Samaritan is 01:29:25.280 --> 01:29:27.480 definitely 01:29:27.480 --> 01:29:31.199 other not on your friends list um and 01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:33.719 we're going to be in dialogue so there 01:29:33.719 --> 01:29:37.960 are things happening 01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:44.159 um I love what you said yeah it it's you 01:29:44.159 --> 01:29:45.400 let this stuff work on your 01:29:45.400 --> 01:29:48.400 dispositional state and then the clarity 01:29:48.400 --> 01:29:53.920 can flow forth from there um 01:29:55.080 --> 01:29:56.960 getting to that point is hard but once 01:29:56.960 --> 01:30:02.040 you get it it's not that hard 01:30:02.080 --> 01:30:04.440 like because what's being what you're 01:30:04.440 --> 01:30:06.159 asking yourself to do is only 01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:08.480 psychologically hard just be quiet right 01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:10.960 just settle down that's not it's not 01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:13.520 like trying to run into Bill Gates's 01:30:13.520 --> 01:30:17.000 office and have an argument with him um 01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:19.960 so I think these 01:30:19.960 --> 01:30:24.400 these new expressions of body and space 01:30:24.400 --> 01:30:26.320 um you know they're tied into we might 01:30:26.320 --> 01:30:28.600 talk about this next year magic reality 01:30:28.600 --> 01:30:30.000 the causal 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:32.800 manifold um I've been tweeting about it 01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:37.480 get people curious um but that's that's 01:30:37.480 --> 01:30:40.639 what we're talking about how does how 01:30:40.639 --> 01:30:44.119 does change in my dispositional state 01:30:44.119 --> 01:30:45.920 actually change the world well you 01:30:45.920 --> 01:30:48.000 changed the world for this person he's 01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:50.280 got to go to Israel things are happening 01:30:50.280 --> 01:30:53.840 in Israel this is is a direct link 01:30:53.840 --> 01:30:57.600 to a Glo you know a a real phenomenon 01:30:57.600 --> 01:31:00.400 it's not just self-improvement that's 01:31:00.400 --> 01:31:03.080 not what we're really about 01:31:03.080 --> 01:31:06.119 here because that's also the reality of 01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:08.080 the world we're living 01:31:08.080 --> 01:31:12.480 in maybe not everywhere but I mean you 01:31:12.480 --> 01:31:15.280 know I remember that when I first came 01:31:15.280 --> 01:31:18.639 to this Village from Boston to decide 01:31:18.639 --> 01:31:20.520 whether I was moving 01:31:20.520 --> 01:31:24.119 here um and I spent three weeks here in 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:28.600 January it was a Romanian waitress who 01:31:28.600 --> 01:31:31.920 gave me the 01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:33.520 trust 01:31:33.520 --> 01:31:36.679 because she was in the only Cafe that 01:31:36.679 --> 01:31:39.600 was open she had learned how to speak 01:31:39.600 --> 01:31:43.800 Portuguese fluently 01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:46.280 beautifully and she asked me a few 01:31:46.280 --> 01:31:48.159 questions and I told her what I was 01:31:48.159 --> 01:31:49.480 trying to 01:31:49.480 --> 01:31:53.560 decide and she sat down with 01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:58.119 me you know it wasn't the familiarity of 01:31:58.119 --> 01:32:00.159 coming back to the country that I happen 01:32:00.159 --> 01:32:02.400 to have a passport once an immigrant 01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:06.119 always an immigrant it's just the way it 01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:11.960 is but she brought me 01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:16.520 here you know so I think this is the 01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:20.600 reality of of the world we're living in 01:32:20.600 --> 01:32:22.520 whether virtually 01:32:22.520 --> 01:32:27.440 I mean or or in person or in an airport 01:32:27.440 --> 01:32:30.760 we're crossing stories from everywhere 01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:35.920 this was not the case before as 01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:37.800 much or 01:32:37.800 --> 01:32:42.719 things just were not in such vibration I 01:32:42.719 --> 01:32:44.159 mean there's a 01:32:44.159 --> 01:32:47.159 vibrational 01:32:48.320 --> 01:32:51.239 intensity the profound arousal state of 01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:53.639 the world 01:32:56.440 --> 01:32:58.920 you said 01:33:04.080 --> 01:33:06.360 it 01:33:06.360 --> 01:33:09.760 Suzy my 01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:14.480 love what's going on in that noodle of 01:33:20.560 --> 01:33:23.560 yours 01:33:24.239 --> 01:33:27.639 well I don't really know what to say 01:33:27.639 --> 01:33:30.639 today it's a very cool I like being here 01:33:30.639 --> 01:33:33.600 thank you I have a deep sadness about 01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:37.880 the Hamas Israel situation like I feel 01:33:37.880 --> 01:33:40.080 most people here 01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:44.320 do and I do say Hamas not 01:33:44.320 --> 01:33:49.800 Palestine um but signs can I go to signs 01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:53.560 just put down that for a little minute 01:33:57.719 --> 01:33:59.679 I feel 01:33:59.679 --> 01:34:04.520 that whatever whatever space I'm in 01:34:04.520 --> 01:34:05.719 whatever 01:34:05.719 --> 01:34:09.239 is where my attention is where my intent 01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:13.639 is then there are many signs come many 01:34:13.639 --> 01:34:15.639 syn synchronicities 01:34:15.639 --> 01:34:19.800 it's it's just happens all the time it's 01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:23.480 more am I 01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:29.080 listening or am I allowing what is so 01:34:29.080 --> 01:34:33.159 obviously pres presented so obviously 01:34:33.159 --> 01:34:34.679 there 01:34:34.679 --> 01:34:37.639 um I thought of a little 01:34:37.639 --> 01:34:40.080 sign and it has stayed with me for a 01:34:40.080 --> 01:34:42.040 little while and 01:34:42.040 --> 01:34:47.119 it I can't hold everything so that's I 01:34:47.119 --> 01:34:49.000 like the signs because it keeps it 01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:52.800 simple in a way um there 01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:55.920 just too much I can't be in all of it 01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:59.080 and at the moment 01:34:59.080 --> 01:35:02.840 and I I don't know if this relates in 01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:04.639 any way to what you've been talking 01:35:04.639 --> 01:35:08.199 about magdalina or not but it feels like 01:35:08.199 --> 01:35:10.400 it 01:35:10.440 --> 01:35:14.400 does instead of like there's things 01:35:14.400 --> 01:35:17.719 going on all the time there's ener like 01:35:17.719 --> 01:35:19.760 for me it's energies always but there's 01:35:19.760 --> 01:35:24.199 a lot of Energies at the moment for me 01:35:24.199 --> 01:35:27.520 that are showing as 01:35:30.320 --> 01:35:33.880 signs of where I want to 01:35:33.880 --> 01:35:37.560 say people are are sensing it everybody 01:35:37.560 --> 01:35:41.760 is sensing this and if I talk about um 01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:44.199 going to the hairdresser for example or 01:35:44.199 --> 01:35:47.000 I talk about talking with some of my 01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:49.320 neighbors these are not people who will 01:35:49.320 --> 01:35:50.400 be coming 01:35:50.400 --> 01:35:53.719 here these are not great 01:35:53.719 --> 01:35:56.400 philosophical um people and I don't mean 01:35:56.400 --> 01:35:58.360 the old academic analytical 01:35:58.360 --> 01:36:01.560 philosophical I love this the love of 01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:05.080 clarity um from the 01:36:05.080 --> 01:36:09.040 lyrical but what I notice in what I 01:36:09.040 --> 01:36:12.960 think is a sign is that these often 01:36:12.960 --> 01:36:15.520 these people would talk about something 01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:18.040 that concerned them something in the 01:36:18.040 --> 01:36:20.679 world it would take the form of a 01:36:20.679 --> 01:36:22.840 complaint 01:36:22.840 --> 01:36:25.400 um and are very binary often and very 01:36:25.400 --> 01:36:27.719 often are them and us and then they 01:36:27.719 --> 01:36:30.119 would come up with a 01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:34.800 solution very much 01:36:34.880 --> 01:36:38.280 um no not much complexity at all but a 01:36:38.280 --> 01:36:40.199 solution which really is just going to 01:36:40.199 --> 01:36:42.119 create more problems really and it's not 01:36:42.119 --> 01:36:44.679 going to really work at all but that was 01:36:44.679 --> 01:36:49.480 fine but what I'm noticing now is that 01:36:49.480 --> 01:36:54.000 PE people don't have an answer people 01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:57.320 are confused people are sitting with 01:36:57.320 --> 01:37:00.400 thises they don't know whereas before 01:37:00.400 --> 01:37:02.480 they did or they thought they did or 01:37:02.480 --> 01:37:05.560 maybe they did I don't know but this is 01:37:05.560 --> 01:37:09.600 is for me quite a this is a sign to me 01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:13.040 of quite a shift and in some ways it's 01:37:13.040 --> 01:37:16.280 showing up the moment we've got our 01:37:16.280 --> 01:37:18.760 voting day is 01:37:18.760 --> 01:37:22.360 Saturday um 01:37:22.360 --> 01:37:24.080 I can't take it too seriously the 01:37:24.080 --> 01:37:25.840 election and the sense of where they're 01:37:25.840 --> 01:37:28.560 going I mean it's all money based stuff 01:37:28.560 --> 01:37:30.239 um and it's all again once again it's 01:37:30.239 --> 01:37:33.960 solution based but you hear people 01:37:33.960 --> 01:37:36.960 saying they're not actually addressing 01:37:36.960 --> 01:37:40.719 what we need to address they're not 01:37:40.719 --> 01:37:43.800 actually we're not actually putting 01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:47.199 ourselves as it were in a space and they 01:37:47.199 --> 01:37:49.360 don't know how to do it but they sense 01:37:49.360 --> 01:37:51.679 that there's something here missing they 01:37:51.679 --> 01:37:54.880 didn't do that six years ago that was 01:37:54.880 --> 01:37:57.280 not something six years ago that was 01:37:57.280 --> 01:38:02.040 happening um and so that's that that for 01:38:02.040 --> 01:38:06.360 me is where I often like to be is just 01:38:06.360 --> 01:38:09.119 listening what is this the energy here 01:38:09.119 --> 01:38:12.119 that I'm picking up and that is in me 01:38:12.119 --> 01:38:14.639 and yeah so that that's part of it for 01:38:14.639 --> 01:38:16.119 me what are the 01:38:16.119 --> 01:38:17.960 signs 01:38:17.960 --> 01:38:21.719 um yeah so that that feels significant 01:38:21.719 --> 01:38:27.440 and it's definitely the case 01:38:27.440 --> 01:38:29.920 that I mean I don't really know how to 01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:32.360 explain this very well like if I think 01:38:32.360 --> 01:38:34.920 of Zack Stein like you think of Z Zack 01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:38.119 Stein often when he starts talking it's 01:38:38.119 --> 01:38:40.360 just like wow there's this lovely 01:38:40.360 --> 01:38:42.679 invitation come on be in the cosmos like 01:38:42.679 --> 01:38:45.159 you're just there and it's lovely but 01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:46.760 there's also 01:38:46.760 --> 01:38:49.000 this there's the there's that 01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:51.920 oscillating energy as well 01:38:51.920 --> 01:38:54.920 that makes me feel humble and 01:38:54.920 --> 01:38:59.440 small not insignificant but just how 01:38:59.440 --> 01:39:03.360 where I live in this whole big thing 01:39:03.360 --> 01:39:06.440 whatever it is I'm talking about because 01:39:06.440 --> 01:39:09.199 those energies those oscillating 01:39:09.199 --> 01:39:12.159 energies 01:39:12.159 --> 01:39:16.599 um I can sense those but they're much 01:39:16.599 --> 01:39:19.280 bigger than me I mean who am I really in 01:39:19.280 --> 01:39:22.599 that context who are we in that 01:39:22.599 --> 01:39:27.040 context yeah and may I just this always 01:39:27.040 --> 01:39:29.159 happens when I talk here there's another 01:39:29.159 --> 01:39:33.000 thing that really really came up for me 01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:34.719 when people were talking 01:39:34.719 --> 01:39:39.239 today which is from David hinton's work 01:39:39.239 --> 01:39:41.520 um our book club has just finished 01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.520 reading that book and it's been very 01:39:43.520 --> 01:39:47.440 interesting I've enjoyed it very much 01:39:47.440 --> 01:39:48.960 where we've gone and where we haven't 01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:51.719 gone and it does feel a good place to go 01:39:51.719 --> 01:39:54.000 to this lyric philosophy next so that's 01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:55.880 my going to be my 01:39:55.880 --> 01:40:00.360 suggestion um but I David 01:40:00.360 --> 01:40:03.480 Hinton in talking about the sixth 01:40:03.480 --> 01:40:07.440 Extinction is also speaking 01:40:07.440 --> 01:40:09.480 of the 01:40:09.480 --> 01:40:12.239 human creature the 01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:16.560 human as a force as a force of nature 01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:21.560 like you can see that there was 01:40:21.560 --> 01:40:24.199 the other five extensions 01:40:24.199 --> 01:40:29.159 arose because of natural or because of 01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:30.400 forces of 01:40:30.400 --> 01:40:32.280 nature 01:40:32.280 --> 01:40:35.320 volcano asteroids whatever the question 01:40:35.320 --> 01:40:37.840 for me in this context of what he's 01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:42.440 speaking of is are we a force of 01:40:42.440 --> 01:40:44.960 Nature and is this 01:40:44.960 --> 01:40:47.360 something I mean we know that we're 01:40:47.360 --> 01:40:50.400 adding to we we're destroying our own 01:40:50.400 --> 01:40:52.239 environment and since we're committing 01:40:52.239 --> 01:40:55.800 suicide you could say but is there 01:40:55.800 --> 01:41:00.239 something Beyond like a a not able to be 01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:02.440 grasped fully by myself I'm not sure I 01:41:02.440 --> 01:41:05.599 fully can grasp how we are a force of 01:41:05.599 --> 01:41:07.400 nature I don't want to say the 01:41:07.400 --> 01:41:11.560 inevitability of it but we are doing 01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:14.080 what we're doing in the same way in one 01:41:14.080 --> 01:41:16.599 sense and the same way as the asteroid 01:41:16.599 --> 01:41:18.320 is doing what it 01:41:18.320 --> 01:41:21.040 did and what's the problem with that 01:41:21.040 --> 01:41:23.480 that I I'm was that a 01:41:23.480 --> 01:41:26.080 problem what needs to go for something 01:41:26.080 --> 01:41:27.320 new to 01:41:27.320 --> 01:41:30.560 come and I take his point I mean there 01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:32.599 is a sense 01:41:32.599 --> 01:41:36.199 of you I don't want that but there's 01:41:36.199 --> 01:41:37.880 also 01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:40.520 maybe anyway I'm going that's all of the 01:41:40.520 --> 01:41:42.679 things well there's a lot more but I 01:41:42.679 --> 01:41:45.119 can't hold everything at the moment so 01:41:45.119 --> 01:41:49.040 that's all I have to say at the moment 01:41:49.040 --> 01:41:54.080 um and I'm not sure how to unpay 01:41:54.080 --> 01:41:56.880 loss it's a very 01:41:56.880 --> 01:42:00.679 interesting have you lost what you never 01:42:00.679 --> 01:42:04.119 had like is that just in the imagination 01:42:04.119 --> 01:42:06.760 I don't I 01:42:07.320 --> 01:42:11.599 don't anyway that's all where I'm at 01:42:11.599 --> 01:42:13.679 today I think I 01:42:13.679 --> 01:42:17.239 feel and I just want to say one more 01:42:17.239 --> 01:42:20.119 little thing it always seems important 01:42:20.119 --> 01:42:21.760 now for me 01:42:21.760 --> 01:42:24.639 just to be in my community or 01:42:24.639 --> 01:42:27.360 communities and just ordinary little 01:42:27.360 --> 01:42:29.880 things to be 01:42:29.880 --> 01:42:33.719 doing that is really where I'm at and 01:42:33.719 --> 01:42:36.960 that's causes great learning for me to 01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:39.440 work with a woman for example at the 01:42:39.440 --> 01:42:41.719 moment a young L who is a very brave 01:42:41.719 --> 01:42:43.719 lady she's done some amazing things and 01:42:43.719 --> 01:42:46.480 I really admire her in that regard but 01:42:46.480 --> 01:42:48.440 her and I have very very different 01:42:48.440 --> 01:42:50.560 values and very different perspectives 01:42:50.560 --> 01:42:52.840 on on how the world works on how we see 01:42:52.840 --> 01:42:56.480 things and even and this is in specific 01:42:56.480 --> 01:42:58.639 context that we're dealing with but 01:42:58.639 --> 01:43:00.840 because our intent is the same and 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:03.239 because of our love for the people 01:43:03.239 --> 01:43:07.159 involved it easily resolves something 01:43:07.159 --> 01:43:10.400 always happens that it's like oh that's 01:43:10.400 --> 01:43:12.960 cool and then we just laugh and we be 01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.880 with what is and how we are 01:43:16.880 --> 01:43:19.239 really we are very different with our 01:43:19.239 --> 01:43:21.800 values but not with what we love and not 01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:25.040 with the goodness and the kindness that 01:43:25.040 --> 01:43:29.080 and the care that we feel and so this is 01:43:29.080 --> 01:43:31.639 there's a great trust and and love there 01:43:31.639 --> 01:43:32.760 now 01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:35.199 and I don't know I just find this 01:43:35.199 --> 01:43:37.400 happens more and more for 01:43:37.400 --> 01:43:40.440 me I notice my neighbor I have a a 01:43:40.440 --> 01:43:42.599 neighbor who her and her husband are 01:43:42.599 --> 01:43:44.800 very good neighbors to me they help me 01:43:44.800 --> 01:43:46.599 or they offer a lot of help sometimes 01:43:46.599 --> 01:43:48.080 it's bloody annoying and I wish they'd 01:43:48.080 --> 01:43:51.360 off but they do offer a lot of 01:43:51.360 --> 01:43:54.280 some things are really really great but 01:43:54.280 --> 01:43:57.880 this is another situation where we work 01:43:57.880 --> 01:44:00.320 together on a very simple little project 01:44:00.320 --> 01:44:02.880 where the F family we know the me and my 01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:04.679 family have got all these cats that were 01:44:04.679 --> 01:44:07.400 just overrunning them and this is not 01:44:07.400 --> 01:44:09.119 something that 01:44:09.119 --> 01:44:13.480 they that they um they don't want to do 01:44:13.480 --> 01:44:15.599 anything really about the cats except 01:44:15.599 --> 01:44:17.880 finally I convinced the mom that if she 01:44:17.880 --> 01:44:19.560 keeps allowing all these cats to have 01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:21.320 kittens they're going to 01:44:21.320 --> 01:44:23.239 run their life I mean their whole back 01:44:23.239 --> 01:44:25.440 out will be full of hundreds of cats but 01:44:25.440 --> 01:44:28.080 the really interesting thing was working 01:44:28.080 --> 01:44:31.719 with sus that my neighbor who's really 01:44:31.719 --> 01:44:35.800 into um she belongs to a voluntary 01:44:35.800 --> 01:44:39.239 organization that helps people whove it 01:44:39.239 --> 01:44:41.239 helps cats and people with too many cats 01:44:41.239 --> 01:44:43.599 and whatever now I don't agree with a 01:44:43.599 --> 01:44:45.800 great deal of her attitudes towards them 01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:46.679 as 01:44:46.679 --> 01:44:49.080 animals but the way in which we work 01:44:49.080 --> 01:44:51.599 together and solve this problem 01:44:51.599 --> 01:44:53.960 for the family in a way that everyone 01:44:53.960 --> 01:44:56.320 felt comfortable and there was some 01:44:56.320 --> 01:44:58.000 sadness and loss there because one of 01:44:58.000 --> 01:45:01.560 the mother cats lost um all the babies 01:45:01.560 --> 01:45:04.199 died and she and the kittens they were 01:45:04.199 --> 01:45:05.599 just little and they all died and there 01:45:05.599 --> 01:45:07.000 was a lot of 01:45:07.000 --> 01:45:11.280 sadness but somehow it's this ability to 01:45:11.280 --> 01:45:15.199 be in relationship with Susanna with the 01:45:15.199 --> 01:45:17.280 inent that didn't it didn't really 01:45:17.280 --> 01:45:21.239 matter in some ways that she 01:45:21.239 --> 01:45:23.440 would do things very differently given 01:45:23.440 --> 01:45:27.159 half a chance I and I wanted to do 01:45:27.159 --> 01:45:28.800 things differently but somehow it all 01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:31.000 worked out fine it 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:34.679 just that's what I what I have to say is 01:45:34.679 --> 01:45:37.840 yeah I just stay in in my community and 01:45:37.840 --> 01:45:41.000 stay in the simple really though I love 01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:44.000 this conversation I think it's amazing 01:45:44.000 --> 01:45:49.000 and I really enjoyed um listening to um 01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:51.719 Jeremy Johnson I thought that was a 01:45:51.719 --> 01:45:55.040 brilliant brilliant piece of what he had 01:45:55.040 --> 01:45:58.280 30 minutes yeah and I remembered and 01:45:58.280 --> 01:45:59.760 when I was listening I remember the 01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:02.199 first time I heard him speak this sense 01:46:02.199 --> 01:46:06.679 of relief I just cried was like oh thank 01:46:06.679 --> 01:46:10.520 God that was so relieved to hear Jeremy 01:46:10.520 --> 01:46:13.159 Johnson speak about 01:46:13.159 --> 01:46:15.800 gibbsa um but I just thought that that 01:46:15.800 --> 01:46:18.760 30 minute piece was brilliant and this 01:46:18.760 --> 01:46:20.599 is a synchronicity of how love 01:46:20.599 --> 01:46:23.800 beautifully it followed from us our 01:46:23.800 --> 01:46:27.760 group with the David hinton's work it 01:46:27.760 --> 01:46:30.280 just perfect synchronicity and then the 01:46:30.280 --> 01:46:32.199 lyric philosophy it's perfect 01:46:32.199 --> 01:46:35.880 synchronicity I I really really like it 01:46:35.880 --> 01:46:37.920 I'm going to be quiet now that's a lot 01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:40.520 of talking I'm going to 01:46:40.520 --> 01:46:42.800 shush thank you for 01:46:42.800 --> 01:46:45.199 listening 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:47.480 so one of the things that happened this 01:46:47.480 --> 01:46:50.480 week is or I guess last week is uh 01:46:50.480 --> 01:46:53.239 Jonathan rouson I think most of you know 01:46:53.239 --> 01:46:55.159 him 01:46:55.159 --> 01:46:57.280 somewhat 01:46:57.280 --> 01:46:59.560 um if you look at the evolution of 01:46:59.560 --> 01:47:01.440 Jonathan rouson over the last couple of 01:47:01.440 --> 01:47:04.000 years it's it's it's it's really 01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:10.159 astounding um and uh and Lal because he 01:47:10.159 --> 01:47:12.960 he lives in a you know very British 01:47:12.960 --> 01:47:16.480 Oxford Harvard type of academic world he 01:47:16.480 --> 01:47:17.480 runs 01:47:17.480 --> 01:47:19.960 organizations that have funders that 01:47:19.960 --> 01:47:22.960 live in that World um and then he starts 01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:25.360 sniffing around across the pond to crazy 01:47:25.360 --> 01:47:28.480 people like Zack Stein and me look at 01:47:28.480 --> 01:47:31.080 that I mean some people are so lucky I 01:47:31.080 --> 01:47:33.199 got a dog barking at 01:47:33.199 --> 01:47:40.280 me um and and um he's someone who's 01:47:40.280 --> 01:47:43.239 who's paying 01:47:43.239 --> 01:47:45.960 attention and so he started a new 01:47:45.960 --> 01:47:47.719 substack he sent it to me he's like what 01:47:47.719 --> 01:47:50.320 do you think of this idea blah blah blah 01:47:50.320 --> 01:47:52.040 couple months ago and then he started 01:47:52.040 --> 01:47:55.360 and he's got this great new substat 01:47:55.360 --> 01:48:00.679 project called um leading from 01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:06.760 confusion um which is uh he credits me 01:48:06.760 --> 01:48:08.440 because I told him that he leads from 01:48:08.440 --> 01:48:10.960 confusion I guess that conversation we 01:48:10.960 --> 01:48:16.320 had um and it's really it really 01:48:16.320 --> 01:48:20.440 um you know it's a sign of you know it's 01:48:20.440 --> 01:48:22.760 thing for like me and Nora Bon to say 01:48:22.760 --> 01:48:25.480 things like that but when you can bring 01:48:25.480 --> 01:48:28.920 people from a different context that 01:48:28.920 --> 01:48:31.080 doesn't really suit their 01:48:31.080 --> 01:48:34.040 personality but they move in gracefully 01:48:34.040 --> 01:48:35.800 he's not like one of these guys who's 01:48:35.800 --> 01:48:39.679 not GNA Co-op the whole idea of LEL 01:48:39.679 --> 01:48:42.280 whatever I mean it's it's he's allowed 01:48:42.280 --> 01:48:46.360 things to shape and work on himself so 01:48:46.360 --> 01:48:48.920 um so I just mention it because you said 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:50.960 something about confusion 01:48:50.960 --> 01:48:53.960 and that you notice that people they may 01:48:53.960 --> 01:48:55.760 be on different sides of the story but 01:48:55.760 --> 01:48:59.880 they're too confused to take a stand um 01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:03.280 and um I had a conversation like this 01:49:03.280 --> 01:49:05.040 with my sister yesterday at my the other 01:49:05.040 --> 01:49:08.199 day at my mom's house um in terms of 01:49:08.199 --> 01:49:10.480 politics we we don't really 01:49:10.480 --> 01:49:12.880 agree and you know we're sisters we can 01:49:12.880 --> 01:49:14.920 get into these things where if I say one 01:49:14.920 --> 01:49:16.320 thing she's going to take the other's 01:49:16.320 --> 01:49:19.000 position but basically what we agreed is 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:21.239 that we look at the people the 01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:24.119 politicians 01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:26.920 and if you actually listen to what like 01:49:26.920 --> 01:49:29.840 Camala Harris says like we're comparing 01:49:29.840 --> 01:49:33.320 Camala Harris with AOC okay Alexander 01:49:33.320 --> 01:49:36.639 octovia now AOC she's young she's got 01:49:36.639 --> 01:49:39.960 the woke kind of culture she's got she's 01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:44.400 been a you know she's not a well put 01:49:44.400 --> 01:49:47.400 together educated person but when she 01:49:47.400 --> 01:49:49.440 interrogates someone and she's mad at 01:49:49.440 --> 01:49:52.840 them she knows how to she she has her 01:49:52.840 --> 01:49:55.280 facts straight and blah blah blah blah 01:49:55.280 --> 01:49:57.239 blah blah right so we used her an 01:49:57.239 --> 01:49:59.480 example because she's not like the 01:49:59.480 --> 01:50:02.800 poster child for my sister's idea of a 01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:04.280 politician or 01:50:04.280 --> 01:50:06.360 something but then when you listen to 01:50:06.360 --> 01:50:09.000 Camala Harris who was like an attorney 01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:11.920 general she's like a zombie she can't 01:50:11.920 --> 01:50:15.480 put two sentences together and we're 01:50:15.480 --> 01:50:19.360 like what is like like what is going on 01:50:19.360 --> 01:50:21.320 you know we weren't talking about Camala 01:50:21.320 --> 01:50:24.239 Harris's politics we were saying here's 01:50:24.239 --> 01:50:26.639 this young girl she's like a blah blah 01:50:26.639 --> 01:50:28.880 blah every if I ran into her and it's 01:50:28.880 --> 01:50:31.000 you know she's irritating but at least 01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:31.840 she 01:50:31.840 --> 01:50:34.719 can express her opinion and put the 01:50:34.719 --> 01:50:37.239 screws to someone she doesn't like right 01:50:37.239 --> 01:50:39.199 very 01:50:39.199 --> 01:50:41.840 classic single Loop 01:50:41.840 --> 01:50:44.520 Logics but then you have this woman that 01:50:44.520 --> 01:50:47.719 you can't even understand or 01:50:47.719 --> 01:50:50.719 how you can't understand 01:50:50.719 --> 01:50:52.960 how they got to 01:50:52.960 --> 01:50:55.719 be attorney general and then you know 01:50:55.719 --> 01:50:58.560 it's like it's just confusing it's un 01:50:58.560 --> 01:51:03.440 understandable what is going on and and 01:51:03.440 --> 01:51:06.920 so um she just reads from scripts and 01:51:06.920 --> 01:51:09.239 she gets she reads it wrong you know 01:51:09.239 --> 01:51:12.320 whatever so the that you know I think 01:51:12.320 --> 01:51:14.719 that's it's gotten to be such 01:51:14.719 --> 01:51:17.400 a they and they want you confused you 01:51:17.400 --> 01:51:20.440 know they don't they don't try to uh uh 01:51:20.440 --> 01:51:22.159 spell things 01:51:22.159 --> 01:51:26.159 out uh in in any way so it's very 01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:30.079 confusing and um and I agree that that's 01:51:30.079 --> 01:51:35.000 that's that's in this time a good sign 01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:38.239 perhaps um the only thing 01:51:38.239 --> 01:51:41.880 is society is complex and too much 01:51:41.880 --> 01:51:44.960 confusions can you know also be be a 01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:46.040 problem 01:51:46.040 --> 01:51:48.679 but so that's that's one thing but I 01:51:48.679 --> 01:51:51.760 really like this this 01:51:51.760 --> 01:51:53.960 there's something lyric there's 01:51:53.960 --> 01:51:56.480 something of lyric culture in this move 01:51:56.480 --> 01:52:02.079 that Jonathan is making and 01:52:03.480 --> 01:52:07.639 um and also if you have a lyric attitude 01:52:07.639 --> 01:52:10.480 just oh let me say this don't buy this 01:52:10.480 --> 01:52:13.560 book for your book club if that's the 01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:15.360 one you thinking of 01:52:15.360 --> 01:52:18.320 buying this is a this is a book that's 01:52:18.320 --> 01:52:20.560 meant to be a you have to practice with 01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:23.840 it it's not I would I would either buy 01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:27.960 once a time Once Upon a Time in the 01:52:28.079 --> 01:52:31.800 West yeah I would buy this 01:52:31.920 --> 01:52:35.599 book by Jan Z 01:52:35.800 --> 01:52:39.920 wikii so Bonnie what's the PDF um that 01:52:39.920 --> 01:52:42.480 you put in the notes is that those are 01:52:42.480 --> 01:52:45.560 three articles about janza Wiki's work 01:52:45.560 --> 01:52:48.840 oh and one is written by herself 01:52:48.840 --> 01:52:52.440 uh but those are more like but janza 01:52:52.440 --> 01:52:54.800 wikii gets really beautiful in her own 01:52:54.800 --> 01:52:56.840 personal Reflections about her life on 01:52:56.840 --> 01:53:00.599 the farm and as a teacher and this is 01:53:00.599 --> 01:53:03.000 this is this 01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:06.560 is this is a book that 01:53:06.560 --> 01:53:09.079 interposes academic philosophy with 01:53:09.079 --> 01:53:12.239 artwork and it it's more of a practice 01:53:12.239 --> 01:53:14.199 book 01:53:14.199 --> 01:53:17.000 um it's expensive I wouldn't I wouldn't 01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:19.639 use it for book club but once upon a 01:53:19.639 --> 01:53:21.719 time Time in the West essays on politics 01:53:21.719 --> 01:53:24.480 thought and Imagination is very very 01:53:24.480 --> 01:53:28.800 good this is the first book I read of 01:53:31.480 --> 01:53:34.560 hers sorry I can give you the PDF of 01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:38.440 this huge book if you if you like 01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:51.760 it 01:53:51.880 --> 01:53:54.119 but B you were saying the lyric attitude 01:53:54.119 --> 01:53:55.400 what were you going to say there what's 01:53:55.400 --> 01:53:57.719 you know oh yes so the lyric attitude 01:53:57.719 --> 01:53:59.320 and that's this is what the book does 01:53:59.320 --> 01:54:03.639 well is it just it notices this wiin 01:54:03.639 --> 01:54:07.040 sign says this it notices box Cannon is 01:54:07.040 --> 01:54:10.079 like a wienstein statement so because 01:54:10.079 --> 01:54:13.840 you're not organizing propositions 01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:16.719 hierarchically toward a judgment when 01:54:16.719 --> 01:54:19.400 you do that you can't you won't see a 01:54:19.400 --> 01:54:21.000 lot of synchronicities because they have 01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:25.560 to fit into this this narrow stream that 01:54:25.560 --> 01:54:28.000 you've built but when 01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:31.000 you're what you know interested in music 01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:33.360 and poetry and like we do at the pop-up 01:54:33.360 --> 01:54:35.440 school and we type you'll notice a lot 01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:37.000 more synchronicities because there's a 01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:39.920 lot more hooks to hang your hats 01:54:39.920 --> 01:54:44.079 on and then things start to Ping on each 01:54:44.079 --> 01:54:50.119 other and and um yeah so if I have a 01:54:50.119 --> 01:54:52.960 propositional explanatory idea of 01:54:52.960 --> 01:54:55.840 something it's it's starts Broad and it 01:54:55.840 --> 01:54:58.800 ends up having a conclusion very few 01:54:58.800 --> 01:55:00.760 things are going to fit into that 01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:03.960 because it's too narrow it's it's sub 01:55:03.960 --> 01:55:06.560 substracted it's my new word if you see 01:55:06.560 --> 01:55:09.199 it's not a typ typo substracted it's 01:55:09.199 --> 01:55:12.239 like subtracted and abstracted it's 01:55:12.239 --> 01:55:14.760 substracted too much of reality from the 01:55:14.760 --> 01:55:17.800 from the world um 01:55:17.800 --> 01:55:23.480 so um so and that's what Susan was also 01:55:23.480 --> 01:55:26.040 uh demonstrating that you know you 01:55:26.040 --> 01:55:28.360 watches Jeremy Johnson and then the book 01:55:28.360 --> 01:55:31.840 club and David Hinton you have all these 01:55:31.840 --> 01:55:35.320 voices that somehow as as Jan Wii said 01:55:35.320 --> 01:55:39.400 they're families they hang together but 01:55:39.400 --> 01:55:42.880 no one's getting together and creating a 01:55:42.880 --> 01:55:46.199 meta systemic analysis of 01:55:46.199 --> 01:55:51.599 reality you know um but 01:55:53.280 --> 01:55:55.679 somehow yeah somehow they hang together 01:55:55.679 --> 01:55:57.320 so you don't feel like I mean if you 01:55:57.320 --> 01:55:59.079 examine your life you might think I'm 01:55:59.079 --> 01:56:01.040 all over the place if you look at it too 01:56:01.040 --> 01:56:04.599 critically but somehow you 01:56:04.599 --> 01:56:07.360 know that there's intelligent 01:56:07.360 --> 01:56:09.719 information coming through this this 01:56:09.719 --> 01:56:11.560 kind of 01:56:11.560 --> 01:56:14.760 process um but it's very hard to say 01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:18.280 what it is because it's not it's not 01:56:18.280 --> 01:56:21.280 arranged Sy 01:56:21.280 --> 01:56:23.119 systematically 01:56:23.119 --> 01:56:26.679 um does that make 01:56:29.440 --> 01:56:32.560 sense there's something about Jeremy J 01:56:32.560 --> 01:56:35.280 like Jeremy Johnson and gser when we 01:56:35.280 --> 01:56:38.679 were W looked at illich he talked about 01:56:38.679 --> 01:56:40.639 the transition 01:56:40.639 --> 01:56:43.920 from tribal circular time 01:56:43.920 --> 01:56:47.119 to Messianic prophetic time and lot you 01:56:47.119 --> 01:56:48.920 see Ah that's just like gser and that's 01:56:48.920 --> 01:56:50.639 like jerem and Jeremy says something 01:56:50.639 --> 01:56:52.199 it's like that and this one's saying 01:56:52.199 --> 01:56:54.159 something like that because there is 01:56:54.159 --> 01:56:57.239 something there is 01:56:57.560 --> 01:57:01.599 some emergent something that hangs all 01:57:01.599 --> 01:57:03.000 these things 01:57:03.000 --> 01:57:06.280 together um but without this attitude of 01:57:06.280 --> 01:57:09.000 sampling you know like we all sample 01:57:09.000 --> 01:57:10.840 from a lot of different places then you 01:57:10.840 --> 01:57:13.639 wouldn't have you wouldn't feel the 01:57:13.639 --> 01:57:16.719 synchronicity of the 01:57:18.400 --> 01:57:20.599 moment 01:57:20.599 --> 01:57:21.880 real quickly I wanted to bring this up 01:57:21.880 --> 01:57:25.320 earlier but we got distracted 01:57:25.320 --> 01:57:28.040 um when you brought up the manifold of 01:57:28.040 --> 01:57:30.239 reality so I don't know if you've seen 01:57:30.239 --> 01:57:34.000 it my this my profile photo is actually 01:57:34.000 --> 01:57:35.239 generated by 01:57:35.239 --> 01:57:38.560 Dolly and I put in Bonnie your prompt 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:40.360 your definition of synchronicity so I 01:57:40.360 --> 01:57:42.880 put in sense of the causal manifold of 01:57:42.880 --> 01:57:45.079 reality and this is one of the things I 01:57:45.079 --> 01:57:47.480 got I thought it was pretty neat it's 01:57:47.480 --> 01:57:49.119 got like the angel I won't explain it 01:57:49.119 --> 01:57:51.480 too much but it's kind of kind of funny 01:57:51.480 --> 01:57:53.599 what happens when you you know mess 01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:55.520 around with the 01:57:55.520 --> 01:57:59.199 algorithm yeah I think it's 01:58:00.239 --> 01:58:02.239 cool okay my 01:58:02.239 --> 01:58:04.679 friends thank you very much it was kind 01:58:04.679 --> 01:58:07.320 of a whole session just checkins but I 01:58:07.320 --> 01:58:09.199 really loved 01:58:09.199 --> 01:58:13.800 it sat thank 01:58:13.800 --> 01:58:16.800 you ## Cohort 3 00:00:08.639 --> 00:00:13.040 okay can you hear me is it too 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:17.119 loud yeah I have a new setup here so is 00:00:17.119 --> 00:00:21.760 that better little better 00:00:22.119 --> 00:00:26.240 okay all righty all 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.400 righty here we are 00:00:31.400 --> 00:00:33.879 are we ready to talk about igors today 00:00:33.879 --> 00:00:37.239 or do we want to talk about something 00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:45.280 else let's Melina is she's raring to 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:50.199 go okay I I I'm I'm gonna leave it at 00:00:50.199 --> 00:00:53.399 that but I've just got to say your 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.840 conversation with 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:01.359 Alexander I'm still high on it I mean 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:05.159 it's so crazy because I feel like that 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:06.840 conversation was already happening 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.080 inside my head like big time I I think 00:01:10.080 --> 00:01:13.119 you remember we were in the conviviality 00:01:13.119 --> 00:01:16.200 thing and I said Andrew you've got to 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:20.920 get these two on the same you know 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:22.600 conversation 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:26.400 and it it it just I I haven't finished 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.560 because I've gone so slow you know I'm 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.439 I'm going 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.360 through you know not even step by step 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:38.840 it's like this cognitive co-evolution as 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.920 an experience okay because it is the two 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.799 of you being these 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.719 um you know I 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.719 think 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.119 um it I feel like I'm receiving messages 00:01:56.119 --> 00:01:58.560 from the future from both of you you 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:02.000 know in in this crazy way and i' I've 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.640 honestly never seen Alexander so 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.479 rigorous because of you okay because he 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:11.560 goes off on these 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:16.560 provocative tangents just to like 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.519 provoke but he has no need to do that 00:02:20.519 --> 00:02:24.160 with you and that is just so exciting 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:25.959 because then he's at his 00:02:25.959 --> 00:02:31.040 best but you're keeping him you know 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:34.560 just in this Rhythm you know it's like 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.080 there's this Rhythm and it's 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:41.200 so exciting I mean and and nobody has 00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:45.879 ever really engaged this way with 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.680 somebody who has spent a fair amount of 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:52.920 time trying to dig into this melian age 00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:57.200 if I want to use Pascal's you know you 00:02:57.200 --> 00:03:00.400 know sort of paradigmatic 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.200 designation and I'm I'm just so grateful 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:07.840 I mean this like really had to happen 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.760 and it had to cross the ocean it 00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:14.239 just really had to happen and I think 00:03:14.239 --> 00:03:17.760 it's such a crucial moment and I felt 00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:21.159 like you what you came through of course 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.720 I'm informed by all the work we've been 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:29.400 doing um that my listening is is not 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.120 quite as illiterate as as it would have 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:33.439 been 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:37.439 otherwise but seriously I mean and it's 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.599 the whole thing I mean which includes 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:43.439 the performance you know which I think 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.439 is crucial right now because we are in 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.640 the melian age and we're not just in the 00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:53.400 Gutenberg realm it has to have this 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.319 Dynamic you know instability that you 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:58.840 don't know what's going to happen 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:00.400 whether you're going to start yelling at 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.239 each other or whether you know and yet 00:04:04.239 --> 00:04:08.319 you navigated it with such 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:12.480 elegant I mean it's just you know you 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:16.959 know hats off really banina I'm just 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:21.160 beside myself I'm so excited thank you 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:24.960 did anybody else see that yet 00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:28.880 no we had that one I had the perspectiva 00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:31.720 presentation and tempor that was pretty 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:37.000 good um yeah it was good right um oh it 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.400 was amazing but this was so Dynamic you 00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:43.639 know it's like because people don't 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.840 really I haven't seen you in dialogue 00:04:46.840 --> 00:04:50.080 where there's an engagement that goes 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:53.400 out that just goes out in the wilderness 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:57.360 that goes out in in in the wildness you 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.440 know quite that way I mean either 00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:03.600 they're intimidated by you or something 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:07.960 or they just skirt around it but this 00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:09.919 was a 00:05:09.919 --> 00:05:13.440 dance loved it I don't know how you feel 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:16.240 about it but I'd be very curious how you 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.479 feel about it no it was great I I didn't 00:05:18.479 --> 00:05:20.759 watch the recording and I don't know if 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:22.720 they let it in they did they leave in 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.520 that part where I had to go and sign for 00:05:24.520 --> 00:05:26.720 a 00:05:27.039 --> 00:05:29.319 delivery I I think that's right at the 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:33.400 end end or or it's toward the middle but 00:05:33.400 --> 00:05:36.120 I yeah no you had to walk away and and 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:40.600 in that moment um uh Alexander says to 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:43.319 Andrew we're we're we're right in it 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.520 we're right in it this is a great start 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:49.479 you know I mean honestly he he really 00:05:49.479 --> 00:05:53.639 just totally engaged and I'm so excited 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.680 because I think this is the kind 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.960 of uh symbiotic and an agonism that I 00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:04.720 feel needs to be happening you know 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.120 whether you want to call it ritual 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.840 descent or whatever for there to be for 00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:14.599 it to come alive so it's not this you 00:06:14.599 --> 00:06:19.000 know just verbera you know of of 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:23.039 philosophy no the stakes are high you 00:06:23.039 --> 00:06:26.039 know and and and it's full 00:06:26.039 --> 00:06:29.199 on sorry I'm really no no no yeah I'm 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.759 glad you said that there's a lot 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.520 happening like part of it part of what's 00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:35.199 happening is 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:36.759 this 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:42.400 uh um push of mind to to develop the 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:45.840 popup school to you know to what did I 00:06:45.840 --> 00:06:47.280 write I don't even remember what I wrote 00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:50.360 what did I write 2024 is the year what 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:51.440 did I 00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:55.360 write that we break out 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.400 um and 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.400 um 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.520 I'm just gonna put in the chat okay 00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:08.080 because I just put 00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:11.840 um yeah I'm not gonna say okay so 00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:13.879 there's a lot going on go I'm really 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.000 loud right because I can hear myself is 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.919 no can I hear myself I have this weird 00:07:18.919 --> 00:07:24.120 microphone so if I'm okay that's okay um 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:26.319 so part of what's happening is this like 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.240 breaking out and um 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.919 also 00:07:31.919 --> 00:07:35.479 wanting um people to know that if you're 00:07:35.479 --> 00:07:37.800 basically the big premium is for yearly 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.479 paid subscribers because if you're 00:07:39.479 --> 00:07:41.280 yearly paid 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:43.319 subscribers I mean in this case the 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.000 Alexander Bard thing was completely free 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.599 but like everything I do will come in as 00:07:49.599 --> 00:07:53.039 a recorded at least a recorded version 00:07:53.039 --> 00:07:54.759 um and so I'm trying 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.800 to um go out and add value in you know 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.280 go out and add value in in in a certain 00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:05.319 way and I have other initiatives too um 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:07.400 that people are proposing to me but it's 00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:09.919 for me it's always like well how can 00:08:09.919 --> 00:08:14.199 this how can this benefit yearly paid 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:16.280 subscribers I mean that's kind of my 00:08:16.280 --> 00:08:18.840 target audience 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:21.479 um but and we're planning to do there's 00:08:21.479 --> 00:08:24.360 going to be another uh one with that 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.199 what that that one was supposed to be 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.840 with also Alexander eling um but he 00:08:29.840 --> 00:08:33.120 broke his leg and it's kind of good 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.560 because we had able to establish more 00:08:35.560 --> 00:08:37.959 back background and then we're gonna 00:08:37.959 --> 00:08:39.279 have one more with him and then we're 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.159 gonna have a series next year which will 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.320 be part of like what the what we bring 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.200 in to the 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.560 school um and you know it is a kind of 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:52.720 dance it's a kind of dance of allowing 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:54.519 these hyper creative people to be 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.839 creative but how many times did I say 00:08:56.839 --> 00:08:59.839 I'm gonna ask you a question I'm gonna 00:08:59.839 --> 00:09:02.959 ask you a question at the end of this uh 00:09:02.959 --> 00:09:05.279 Alexander because they get into this 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.000 like they just they're just explosions 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.839 of creative like blah blah 00:09:11.839 --> 00:09:14.519 blah and 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:17.480 um so that's that's part of it with them 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:19.200 there's other initiatives like that yeah 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.800 David are 00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:25.440 you um do you want to say something yeah 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.640 I do want to say something and I'm 00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:30.600 having this strange kind of like outof 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.600 Body Experience between Holly and Kevin 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:37.839 they're with this kind of I can't tell 00:09:37.839 --> 00:09:41.160 which dimension who's in and what's 00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:44.480 going across and the reason I bring this 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.880 up that drawing you can tell right 00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:49.959 because of the it's be listen it's 00:09:49.959 --> 00:09:53.600 because you are one of those hyper 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.480 creatives that that um movie 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.920 presentation you put together did the 00:10:00.920 --> 00:10:03.320 same kind of thing Holly and Kevin are 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.040 doing to me it moved me through 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:09.480 different dimensions and it wasn't what 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.040 was the word matalena just you 00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:13.920 used 00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:18.399 verata no verbera verbera it wasn't 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.079 verbera it was this it was this you know 00:10:22.079 --> 00:10:26.200 body out of body inbody in time out okay 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:27.640 I G to ask you a question and put you on 00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:31.320 the spot did the word words 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.839 matter not really right with like we're 00:10:34.839 --> 00:10:38.279 not at the point me Alexander barter not 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:40.399 at the point where the words matter oh 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.720 no I'm talking about the uh the movies 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.920 you did for oh with perspectiva yeah 00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:48.760 sorry those 00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:53.160 words yeah did matter and didn't 00:10:53.160 --> 00:10:55.920 matter because what came back to me was 00:10:55.920 --> 00:10:58.800 the prompt How does the structure of 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:01.839 time time change and the problem I had 00:11:01.839 --> 00:11:06.480 is I kind of move slow in sensing so 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.120 there wasn't much time between movies to 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.519 sense Beyond just the obvious for me I 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.639 knew there was more there but um my 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.079 point is you're one of the hyper 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:25.200 creatives thank you for the work you 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:29.079 do I think the words matter like a 00:11:29.079 --> 00:11:33.839 specify one moment for me that was key I 00:11:33.839 --> 00:11:36.839 mean like to me it was a moment of this 00:11:36.839 --> 00:11:38.040 be the last comment because I don't 00:11:38.040 --> 00:11:40.079 think other people saw it you okay it 00:11:40.079 --> 00:11:41.639 was a moment of 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.320 metamorphosis I mean literally like 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:49.600 before my eyes when you took 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:54.000 methos into lyrical oh my you see it 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.160 fixed because it fixed this 00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:00.399 confusion yes it wasn't a challenge so 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.320 this I'm glad you saw that because this 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.959 is a big deal he's he's gonna change his 00:12:05.959 --> 00:12:08.760 masculine or patriarchal blah 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:12.000 blah blah blah and he's gonna say the 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.959 Mythos is not Mythos it's 00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.959 lyrical and so it's a big deal for us 00:12:17.959 --> 00:12:19.880 because we're gonna be going on next 00:12:19.880 --> 00:12:22.519 year and talk about creating lyrical 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.839 culture right yeah oh my God that was so 00:12:25.839 --> 00:12:28.040 but it didn't threaten him it was much 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:29.519 better uh 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.920 helped him understand what he was saying 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:34.680 see I mean I've been listening to or or 00:12:34.680 --> 00:12:36.199 following I mean I've talked to 00:12:36.199 --> 00:12:40.760 Alexander personally whatever um because 00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:43.760 he really has this extraordinarily 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.600 Generous Heart he really does I mean he 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:49.760 can sound like an and insult 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:53.120 people and whatever but underneath 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.600 there's just extraordinary generosity 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.399 yeah and and and that's what you 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.240 connected with and that that that's what 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.240 was so beautiful because it was a worthy 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.639 interloc yeah seriously so the point 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.920 here for the rest of the people is we 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:17.320 have Alexander who's in this you 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.720 know you know everybody's got their 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:23.720 performance stick but we've enabled to 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.120 slip in this interesting concept of 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.279 lyric philosophy and lyric culture 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.160 as actually what he's actually been 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:37.040 looking for um um and that I think was 00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:41.880 important for our our community and 00:13:41.880 --> 00:13:45.440 um yeah 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.480 so so enough of that for now because can 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.680 you define what you mean by lyric 00:13:51.680 --> 00:13:55.680 philosophy and lyric culture okay so no 00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:57.680 not right now because that's basically 00:13:57.680 --> 00:13:59.399 what we're going to do in the early part 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.240 of 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:06.000 2024 um and um I'll be starting to 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.800 writing a seeds essay series on lyric 00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:12.880 culture um lyric culture is just what 00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:16.720 I'm saying is a kind of a cultural 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.480 scene that is founded on lyric 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:22.759 philosophy and lyric philosophy is 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:27.079 basically uh a word in invented or an 00:14:27.079 --> 00:14:30.399 idea kind of composed by janza 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.880 Wiki um 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:39.680 so uh I'll give one felt sense of it and 00:14:39.680 --> 00:14:41.920 that is it doesn't 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:45.160 isue it's not allergic 00:14:45.160 --> 00:14:47.199 to um 00:14:47.199 --> 00:14:50.199 theoretic philosophy which is you know 00:14:50.199 --> 00:14:53.120 most of the western 00:14:53.880 --> 00:14:56.759 Canon um but it's very interested in 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.959 attending to particulars 00:14:59.959 --> 00:15:03.320 this particular moment this like these 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.680 Chopsticks I happen to 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:09.720 think extremely 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.440 nice because it's just handcarved from 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:14.639 wood so you know you know these these 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.800 noticings are very 00:15:17.959 --> 00:15:20.399 particular so that's part of lyric but 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.519 the word lyric is comes from 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:27.160 musicality and that is if I'm listening 00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:30.639 to a or piece of orchestral 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:34.759 music where is the music is it in the 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:38.160 first note is it in the second note is 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.079 it in the last 00:15:41.839 --> 00:15:45.240 note is it in this transitional period 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.360 between two different kind of Acts in a 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.319 in the music is is it in the Overture 00:15:51.319 --> 00:15:53.560 where is the 00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:56.560 music and so lyric 00:15:56.560 --> 00:16:00.199 philosophy um is like that so if you 00:16:00.199 --> 00:16:02.040 want to know what lyric culture is like 00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:03.920 you've been embedded in it in the pop-up 00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:06.240 school that's why you can't go home and 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.680 tell people what you 00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:09.920 learned it'd be like trying to tell 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:11.839 people what what what's the music that 00:16:11.839 --> 00:16:14.959 you just heard well is it C minor or F 00:16:14.959 --> 00:16:16.800 major or 00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:20.720 G or an A minor chord or a fifth chord 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:21.959 where's the 00:16:21.959 --> 00:16:24.519 music you come home from the Opera or 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.079 you come home from an orchestra like and 00:16:26.079 --> 00:16:28.199 they say okay what what what did you 00:16:28.199 --> 00:16:29.160 hear 00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:31.199 how could you possibly tell someone 00:16:31.199 --> 00:16:33.079 where where is where is what you've 00:16:33.079 --> 00:16:35.480 heard where is what you've learned and 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:38.399 so lyric has to do 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.040 with but on the other hand after you 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:43.839 hear a symphony you have it 00:16:43.839 --> 00:16:47.519 all you have it 00:16:48.079 --> 00:16:51.399 all but you've never experienced it all 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.880 or is it on the sheet music where is 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:57.440 where is where is it lyric philosophy is 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.720 the same way 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.360 it's like music that hangs 00:17:04.439 --> 00:17:09.039 Together lyric culture would be the same 00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:13.799 way it's not it's not its purpose is not 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.679 to come to some kind of conclusion at 00:17:16.679 --> 00:17:18.000 the 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.039 end or if it does the conclusions 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:25.120 doesn't make any sense the conclusions 00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:30.400 don't make any sense without the journey 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.520 there so that's what lyric philosophy is 00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.919 it doesn't matter if it's conceptual or 00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:40.200 poetic I mean Jan Z wikii is a 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.840 conceptual po a conceptual philosopher a 00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:46.240 poet and a musician not surprising that 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.360 she comes up with this term of lyric 00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:52.480 philosophy um so this 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.520 is this is the 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.840 foundational felt sense of lyric 00:18:02.679 --> 00:18:06.919 culture can I give my sense of 00:18:06.919 --> 00:18:10.480 what I might think it might mean from 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.000 what you just 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:19.039 said that was a question oh yeah yeah 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.039 um 00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:26.360 so I did this whole reading of this 00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:28.919 person that I studied 00:18:28.919 --> 00:18:32.000 and I I had the sense 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.600 of getting the sense of his whole 00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:37.320 Symphony that his work was actually a 00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:42.520 symphony and it took a long time to um 00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:45.280 even any one part of it I could feel oh 00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.760 this is part of a symphony but it took a 00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:51.559 long time to be able to hold the whole 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.159 of the 00:18:53.159 --> 00:18:55.960 symphony 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.480 uh without having to break it down down 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.799 into its parts and its meaning it took a 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.080 long time to be able to hold it without 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.520 having to deconstruct it and so all of 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:10.240 the nuts and bolts are the parts of the 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:14.280 symphony are there and necessary and yet 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:17.919 after a certain point there's a an 00:19:17.919 --> 00:19:23.720 experience of the wholeness of uh you 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.600 could even say the posture of it or the 00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:29.120 wholeness of um what it's holding 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:31.000 and 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.080 and what I 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:36.440 think what I would make that mean and I 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.640 obviously don't know is 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:45.559 that to be able to engage in lyric 00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:50.600 philosophy you would have to be able to 00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:57.120 hold the wholeness of something the like 00:19:57.120 --> 00:19:59.039 you say where's the music 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.480 there's a whole gestal that's have many 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.640 many many 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.400 components and um it feels like it's a 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.000 new level of skill and skill sounds like 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:13.360 way too small a 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:18.440 word um you have to have gone through 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.360 the nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts 00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:23.480 and nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts to 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.960 finally uh feel like you 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.159 can um 00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:37.919 trust a larger currency that's moving 00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:42.720 trust your ability to to to to sense it 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.840 and to hold it so I just made that up 00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:48.080 but that's my thought about yeah I mean 00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:49.919 there's some things that sound right and 00:20:49.919 --> 00:20:52.120 then there's things that I'm not 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:55.960 sure what you mean 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.159 because one of the things we have to how 00:20:58.159 --> 00:21:01.159 do you hold the whole the 00:21:01.159 --> 00:21:03.760 gestal um if you hold it through a 00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:05.159 narrative like you have a narrative and 00:21:05.159 --> 00:21:06.840 you connect all these nodes well that's 00:21:06.840 --> 00:21:08.679 not lyric culture that's just another 00:21:08.679 --> 00:21:12.080 strategy through resonance yeah it would 00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:14.679 through resonance to Resonance it yeah 00:21:14.679 --> 00:21:18.799 and when you've gone 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.640 to a show an orchestra show I've gone to 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.320 I used to go to a lot of really complex 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:30.320 Jazz uh shows you come away and there's 00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:32.000 no 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.159 way if you there's a certain is a 00:21:35.159 --> 00:21:38.919 certain eagerness to 00:21:38.919 --> 00:21:41.880 to capture what you just experienced and 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.279 there's no way you can capture it 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.559 especially these these 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.600 improvisational Jazz things we used to 00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:56.360 go to um but your your your self has 00:21:56.360 --> 00:21:59.600 captured it so there's no sense that 00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.320 there's an organ that has to do 00:22:01.320 --> 00:22:04.320 something after the 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:08.120 fact there's no sense that gee did I 00:22:08.120 --> 00:22:09.480 really learn something because I don't 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.000 know what I learned there's a sense 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.159 that with the right so in in in lyric 00:22:15.159 --> 00:22:18.159 culture we're also going to learn about 00:22:18.159 --> 00:22:21.520 uh a fan of janza Wiki which is Heidi's 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:24.360 Warren Heidi's uh attending as a sacred 00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:27.240 art if you attend in the right way then 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.480 you've captured whole and it won't feel 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.000 like it because it's not a narratology 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.159 that connects the dots it's not a 00:22:35.159 --> 00:22:38.120 philosophical system that connects the 00:22:38.120 --> 00:22:41.200 dots you just have C you've 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.600 just you've captured it through your 00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:46.840 body through the sensing through the 00:22:46.840 --> 00:22:50.279 being attending in a certain way and and 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.480 that that has changed you 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.760 so so yes exactly what you said as long 00:22:55.760 --> 00:22:59.080 as you're not working really hard after 00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:02.000 the fact to capture either through 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.440 narrative or some kind of systemic 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.520 philosophical system what it is that 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:09.919 makes it 00:23:09.919 --> 00:23:14.600 whole because the capture itself is a 00:23:14.600 --> 00:23:17.559 partiality um now having said that we do 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.600 do that then we go and we talk about 00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:21.600 janza Wiki and we make an narra of I'm 00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:23.159 not I'm not saying that that doesn't 00:23:23.159 --> 00:23:25.880 carry forward but your basic experience 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:28.400 to it is 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.600 it's not that without capturing it it's 00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:33.640 going to somehow evade 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.640 me 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.520 um yeah something like 00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:46.880 that but that's you know that's we're 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.880 talking about culture the origins of 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.679 culture uh we're looking at lyric 00:23:51.679 --> 00:23:56.039 culture as something going 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.480 forward um and lyric culture has a lot 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:01.480 to do with 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:04.200 acknowledging 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.440 um 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:09.200 that you know when you're composing a 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.000 piece of music for 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.720 someone um you're composing for their 00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.520 ears but you're also 00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:18.120 composing for their imagination and 00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:21.120 their affective resonance with the with 00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:22.000 the 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.559 music um you're 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.600 speaking you're speaking a lot of 00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:29.799 languages at the same time 00:24:34.600 --> 00:24:37.240 time I'm going to throw something else 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.159 in here which was Herby Hancock gave the 00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:41.720 Norton 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.360 lectures um and for some reason those 00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:47.600 were never 00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:50.960 transcribed and I would like to think he 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.000 said they shouldn't be and they always 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.200 print the Lord Norton lectures so that's 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.960 kind of an interesting except 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.520 exception and in there one of the things 00:25:04.520 --> 00:25:07.039 he talks about was the 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:11.039 relationship with technology of jazz 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.640 because Charlie Parker would not travel 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:20.559 without his um record player and and the 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.600 way he studied 00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:27.039 Jazz was by playing the recordings you 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:32.120 know and starts to scramble this whole 00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:36.200 linear kind of Developmental 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.559 you know it just and and what Harvey 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.600 Hancock 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:44.799 was claiming was that jazz was the 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.840 ethics for the 21st century and I think 00:25:47.840 --> 00:25:54.360 that completely aligns with um Yan fiki 00:25:54.360 --> 00:25:57.399 because look at this one this is another 00:25:57.399 --> 00:25:58.840 little 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:03.120 fragment I I I 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:06.200 foraged and I just feel like it's so 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.279 popup schol I mean and you know it's 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.919 practice ceaselessly there's one art 00:26:12.919 --> 00:26:15.960 wind in the Open Spaces grieving 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:20.360 laughing with us saying improvise you 00:26:20.360 --> 00:26:21.720 know I 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.120 mean that's not the verbera that's not 00:26:26.120 --> 00:26:30.880 the Dogma or the godma you know I like 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.520 to be dyslexic about that well the other 00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:39.720 thing the katma gogma katma okay it um 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.640 so the other thing about 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.919 um jazz is if you if you're interested 00:26:45.919 --> 00:26:47.679 in creating a lyric culture you're like 00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:49.039 oh you know how can you create a culture 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.440 out of nothing well the American Jazz 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.480 that whole 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.960 culture um I mean nothing's created out 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.240 of nothing 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.399 but this is an independent culture grown 00:27:01.399 --> 00:27:05.200 homegrown culture in the US in that 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.520 sense they're kind of new indigenous uh 00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:13.960 to the to this to this country um and um 00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.240 so how how how does a 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.200 culture an africanamerican or a black 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:24.240 American culture emerge out of those 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.600 conditions right um and I've always 00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.120 complain that like these black lives 00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:32.159 matters and all these things they don't 00:27:32.159 --> 00:27:35.200 emphasize enough the the emergence the 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.120 singular emergence of a culture 00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:42.720 Independence really of past conditions 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.720 and in in Modern Times And um American 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.640 Jazz and all its 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.960 extensions uh into rap and stuff are are 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.960 um should be studied as an AS 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.320 anthropolog logical you know if you want 00:27:59.320 --> 00:28:01.399 to understand how things 00:28:01.399 --> 00:28:04.240 emerge uh there's hardly 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.279 anything um more interesting in 00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.960 studying some of the Pioneers in that 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.200 movement because you're right they they 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.200 thought about it a lot they knew about 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.919 what they were doing they're extremely 00:28:17.919 --> 00:28:20.559 talented they many of them saw music as 00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:21.519 pure 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.679 abstractions uh the way the way Mozart 00:28:24.679 --> 00:28:28.880 did and they studied Mozart and B 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.679 so 00:28:30.679 --> 00:28:33.480 uh yeah that's a real inspiration if you 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.720 want to start a new a new 00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.399 culture um I had an experience over the 00:28:49.399 --> 00:28:51.200 summer at jazz I don't know if you want 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.080 to hear a story or if you want to do 00:28:53.080 --> 00:28:56.399 some teaching but 00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:59.399 um 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.120 you know that Chopstick dance you just 00:29:02.120 --> 00:29:04.480 did where's the 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.840 music I went to see a jazz performance a 00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:12.039 live jazz performance at an iconic place 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.200 here in Los Angeles the Hollywood Bowl 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.200 and the setup 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.600 was about a dozen 00:29:22.360 --> 00:29:25.159 cellos no about a half dozen cellos 00:29:25.159 --> 00:29:27.600 about a dozen strings in the back of the 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:32.440 stage and the front of the stage was 10 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.360 different piano kind of 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:40.480 instruments that were electronic and 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:45.200 piano and I mean all different kinds of 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:46.640 very 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.000 contemporary 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:55.120 instruments and there was one saxophone 00:29:56.320 --> 00:29:59.320 player 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:02.880 and it was the most 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:07.360 beautiful assemblage of music and Jazz 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.640 I've ever experienced I've spent my 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.799 whole life I used to sneak into bars 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.080 when I was 14 years old here to listen 00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:17.640 to Jazz in Los 00:30:18.679 --> 00:30:21.279 Angeles and I went there thinking I 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.240 can't get into this electronic you 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.640 know I 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:29.240 mean and I'll tell you 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.919 you when I look now and see where was 00:30:32.919 --> 00:30:36.840 that music I can't tell you it is inside 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:40.000 of me and it was a 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.880 Transcendent experience for 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.840 me and it was an iconic 00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:52.399 jazz performer Pharaoh Sanders oh my God 00:30:52.399 --> 00:30:54.960 what he did about five years 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:58.440 ago well now seven years ago was he 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.440 hooked up with this electronic 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:05.840 contemporary group and created composed 00:31:05.840 --> 00:31:09.840 this Symphony and died before the first 00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:12.360 time it was ever performed and I got to 00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:15.399 see it performed by an English Sachs 00:31:15.399 --> 00:31:18.840 player that took his spot it 00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:22.120 was just like what you said with those 00:31:22.120 --> 00:31:24.720 did with those Chopsticks where's the 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.799 music it's inside of me 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.480 Bonnie so in the 80s when I lived in New 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.919 York and we had an artist L we would go 00:31:32.919 --> 00:31:35.799 see phell Sanders at the new school and 00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.200 and then these 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.519 overnight uh things and one time I 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:44.279 brought uh my friend who is 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:48.440 gay um he he started Living with this 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:50.639 German intellectual I think he was a 00:31:50.639 --> 00:31:53.120 medical researcher or something and I 00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:55.360 was like oh let's bring him to see phah 00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:58.519 Sanders and we went to see phah Sanders 00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.039 and this German intellectual got so 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.120 upset he thought that he thought the 00:32:04.120 --> 00:32:08.600 band was making fun of white people's 00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:11.120 naiv that they were playing because 00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:13.159 they'd go home and like you believe they 00:32:13.159 --> 00:32:15.679 they pay for this I can walk right over 00:32:15.679 --> 00:32:18.200 there and get my albums of pharoh 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:21.120 Sanders um yeah so that's the kind of 00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:23.360 jazz we used to listen to I used to go 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:26.080 and listen to Steve Lacy I remember a 00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:28.200 lot 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.760 and I would get so synesthetic that the 00:32:30.760 --> 00:32:34.840 music was all these these visuals of 00:32:34.840 --> 00:32:37.200 these notes that would change look like 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.480 do that would change color and then do 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.720 this you know of course it was because 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:44.399 part of it was because so late at night 00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:47.720 and I worked and I was like drinking a 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.799 lot of caffeine and I was at these 00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:55.080 concerts and and um being in these these 00:32:55.080 --> 00:32:57.760 dimensional spaces of con Consciousness 00:32:57.760 --> 00:32:58.960 that were 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:04.480 like um magnificent you know um and and 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:06.399 I never thought it was a coincidence 00:33:06.399 --> 00:33:08.919 there was some magic that were was 00:33:08.919 --> 00:33:11.279 happening and actually I think Ry and 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.679 Marie were in I used to do uh um a 00:33:15.679 --> 00:33:18.799 little workshop on circus Jazz how 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.399 circus Jazz opens the way your mind is 00:33:22.399 --> 00:33:24.559 wired 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.519 uh in a in a way that 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.440 is kind of one of the things meditation 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:33.039 can help you with 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.039 um but yeah phoh Sanders that's That's 00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:39.080 Heavy hitting that's that that requires 00:33:39.080 --> 00:33:43.799 a s a very very skillful attending and a 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.960 letting go at the same 00:33:47.159 --> 00:33:51.039 time uh I would recommend Carla BL 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.279 escalator over the hill you could buy 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.360 the CD set it's an 00:33:55.360 --> 00:34:01.240 Offa Carla BL b y escalator over the 00:34:24.560 --> 00:34:27.639 hill okay so one of the are there any 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.320 other comments I mean we're just kind of 00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.599 this is the fireside chat so far but we 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.119 can move 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:42.720 on I I have just a a thought that's 00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:45.960 coming up 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.839 um this this idea of 00:34:51.879 --> 00:34:54.000 musicality of 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.879 song 00:34:55.879 --> 00:34:58.280 of tiny 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.160 elements weaving into something 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:06.160 bigger and the sun being 00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:09.160 greater 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.040 um and the idea of 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:18.160 um transmission that happens through 00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:21.680 song The Sound enters 00:35:21.680 --> 00:35:24.640 us 00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:27.800 um the vibrations do 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.400 and there's this um process of 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.760 entrainment right 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:41.000 where organisms begin to move 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.800 together when they're moving to a shared 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.680 song 00:35:46.680 --> 00:35:51.960 so this is the practice of singing an 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.680 infant to 00:35:54.680 --> 00:35:57.680 comfort while rocking 00:35:57.680 --> 00:36:01.200 it's also sex it's 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:04.040 also huge groups of people listening to 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:08.440 music there is this life force of shared 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.000 experience in the 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.560 sounding but it's a 00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:20.119 transmission that's that's 00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.720 Mya 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.040 um I just wanted to share a little bit 00:36:46.040 --> 00:36:47.839 about Jan 00:36:47.839 --> 00:36:53.200 zinsky and I have a question to ask um I 00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:56.079 had an I had the experience of listening 00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.680 to her read some of her 00:36:59.839 --> 00:37:03.359 poetry and the 00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:06.000 experience I can't 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.839 decide whether I just don't have the 00:37:09.839 --> 00:37:13.760 ability to share that experience with 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.119 language or I don't want to it just 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.560 doesn't matter and I'm just curious I'm 00:37:21.560 --> 00:37:23.400 sitting with that because that might 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.640 unfold further um 00:37:27.640 --> 00:37:31.079 H and I wonder also if it's a little bit 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.720 relating to one of the allergies or that 00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:38.599 I noticed when I was at University one 00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:40.079 of my Majors was 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.800 English and I really 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.599 struggled to do this analytical 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.400 unpacking of poetry it's like I lost 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:54.000 half of it as soon as I did it now or 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.880 all of it or really went into actually 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:00.119 went into a space that wasn't the poem 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:03.160 actually wasn't really that space once I 00:38:03.160 --> 00:38:04.040 went 00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.680 into listening to lectures breaking it 00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:08.839 all down blah blah blah and then trying 00:38:08.839 --> 00:38:12.280 to write something in that way 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.760 myself and I'm wondering is that why I 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.560 don't want to maybe that just occurred 00:38:17.560 --> 00:38:19.280 to me actually maybe that's why I don't 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.720 want to language this or I want to 00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:24.079 language 00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.000 it why do I need to language it at all 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:31.119 all cuz I heard Jan say very clearly 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.680 that if we're going to use language we 00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:37.640 need to be very exact and that reminded 00:38:37.640 --> 00:38:41.079 me of here a lot where we draw 00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:43.400 distinctions so that we are at least on 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.480 the same page but then we see very 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.440 quickly or I saw very quickly this coar 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:54.119 grained language thing and it 00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.520 doesn't often help at all 00:39:00.319 --> 00:39:05.119 and for some reason I still want to say 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.720 and express this experience of listening 00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:13.240 to her poetry it's cool poetry 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:15.240 that's very cool anyway that's all I 00:39:15.240 --> 00:39:17.400 have to say at the moment thank 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.640 you yeah in her big book she talks a lot 00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:22.920 about I haven't read it all yet a lot 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.119 about world 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.760 wordlessness that the 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.400 philosophers biggest challenge is that 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.240 they're always operating on just just on 00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:36.960 this edge of 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.960 wordlessness 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.640 um so I'm not I'm not trying to make 00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:48.680 janza wikii like our you know leader or 00:39:48.680 --> 00:39:52.040 anything like that 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.960 um just using her 00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.440 her method 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:01.680 really 00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:05.720 um her approach her way has a lot to do 00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:08.200 with what we've been doing and you know 00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:10.480 I only recently discovered 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.480 her um 00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.000 and it's nice 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:19.960 to be able to draw on a body of work 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.680 that's already there to to play with and 00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:25.359 stuff you know 00:40:25.359 --> 00:40:26.920 um 00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:30.280 because For Me lyric lyric culture is 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:33.560 lyric philosophy plus something like 00:40:33.560 --> 00:40:36.680 waren Heidi's uh 00:40:36.680 --> 00:40:39.640 attending as an art or attending as a 00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:42.760 sacred art 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.440 times David hinton's wild mind wild 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:49.359 Earth um so those three things together 00:40:49.359 --> 00:40:52.920 to me make lyric lyric 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.880 culture lyric philosophy attending as a 00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:57.599 sacred act 00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.200 and um whatever you want to call the 00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:03.920 third one W way 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:09.680 or being inside the six Extinction event 00:41:09.680 --> 00:41:12.160 something and I would say that that 00:41:12.160 --> 00:41:14.440 that's lyric 00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.440 culture 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:21.400 um and you know that's how 20124 is set 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.560 out if you if you go to the Retreats but 00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:27.839 also um the posts and the 00:41:27.839 --> 00:41:29.760 the reflections and the briefs will be 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:33.280 based upon Warren hi h 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:36.480 i I don't know how to say his last 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:40.920 name I can find it really 00:41:41.640 --> 00:41:45.800 fast it's also 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.040 um as a 00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:53.560 art um no that's not 00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:56.200 good it's also listed on the rich 00:41:56.200 --> 00:41:58.319 Retreat website as the resource for the 00:41:58.319 --> 00:42:00.720 second 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.079 Retreat yeah I wanted to ask sort of 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:20.160 about like bringing it sort of back to 00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:23.680 egregor yeah let's do that yeah because 00:42:23.680 --> 00:42:25.680 we're talking about music and Harmony 00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:28.119 but sometimes times things are not super 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:30.720 harmonious and the music isn't so great 00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:33.760 like I remember um chanting one time in 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:36.559 this Temple and there was this one woman 00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.760 who just chanted so loud like so so loud 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.520 that you no one else could hear like and 00:42:42.520 --> 00:42:45.599 sort of threw everyone off because and 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:48.359 you know she wasn't aware of it um but 00:42:48.359 --> 00:42:51.240 just sort of you know how to shift or 00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:54.760 how to respond when the music is 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.800 someone's maybe toned deaf or like it's 00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.240 not moving in a harmonious 00:42:59.240 --> 00:43:02.640 Direction so what's interesting what zi 00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:05.160 does in her big book is she has her two 00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:06.960 big books is she has something on the 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.400 left hand side that she writes that 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.960 sounds like her and then something on 00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.480 the right- hand side which is analytic 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.559 philosophy and she challenges the reader 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:19.720 to say how do these two 00:43:19.720 --> 00:43:22.240 things go 00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:23.960 together 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.599 um and it's not easy 00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.440 I mean I pride myself on someone who 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.559 could answer these puzzles and I'm like 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:33.440 what you know like so it's not like 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:37.359 she's she's trying to 00:43:37.359 --> 00:43:42.520 be utopian or Kumbaya person 00:43:42.520 --> 00:43:45.240 um but the notion of the agore if we're 00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:46.920 going to move on to that is really 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:48.800 fascinating 00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.559 because 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:55.079 um when we look at the origins of 00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.079 culture 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.079 and when we think about new culture 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.480 emerging cultures or or new unfolding 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:09.119 cultures we think of culture as creating 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:14.040 a wi space right so like um people 00:44:14.040 --> 00:44:16.240 understand themselves as a people as the 00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:20.680 Jewish people or as Irish people um um 00:44:20.680 --> 00:44:24.040 and early on before the modern era those 00:44:24.040 --> 00:44:26.280 were not related to States they were 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:30.359 related to ancestry right so culture has 00:44:30.359 --> 00:44:33.160 to do with creating these larger and 00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:35.800 larger units of 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:37.800 identity 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:45.599 um creating a we space and a we 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.640 space um depending on you how you 00:44:48.640 --> 00:44:52.000 describe it but for me what a we is as 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.200 opposed to an us so an us is like a 00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:58.079 category us 00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.640 Americans you know we're we go off in 00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:04.440 all different directions but a we is 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.839 like a team we 00:45:07.839 --> 00:45:14.920 won the game right um but um and some 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.559 people will say you know we Americans we 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:20.880 won the war I don't experience that as 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.520 like we won the War I experience as like 00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:26.520 us Americans won the war yet again or us 00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:28.960 Americans started the war right so for 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:34.359 me we has this capacity to be a unit of 00:45:35.319 --> 00:45:37.760 action and this is kind of the Holy 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.520 Grail of these practices how do you 00:45:40.520 --> 00:45:42.240 create a culture where people are 00:45:42.240 --> 00:45:45.040 coherent or resonant enough that they 00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.000 can act 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.520 collaboratively at scales that can 00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:51.240 change the 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:53.359 system 00:45:53.359 --> 00:45:57.319 right so um this is a question for a lot 00:45:57.319 --> 00:46:00.680 of people and if you've tried to do 00:46:00.680 --> 00:46:04.800 alternative things you find that you 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.000 even acting at a scale of five or six 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000 people is really hard it's really hard 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.440 to make so Jonathan ralson calls it the 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:13.760 impossible 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.480 we like how many how much effort's gone 00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.800 into like the emerge and the de in 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:21.440 development people and all these efforts 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.119 to and gain be and blah blah blah all 00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:30.559 these efforts to create a we and by we I 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:32.720 mean is not an us not just people that 00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:35.839 identify with game be it's an us I'm a 00:46:35.839 --> 00:46:39.280 card carrying game be or 00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:41.720 whatever um 00:46:41.720 --> 00:46:44.559 but the kind of glue that makes it a 00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:47.200 unit of 00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:50.200 action so this is this is something 00:46:50.200 --> 00:46:51.960 people have been experimenting with and 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.200 working on for a long time you might 00:46:54.200 --> 00:46:56.280 find it hard to make your own family a 00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.280 unit of action these days one's a 00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.160 Republicans some are Democrats this one 00:47:00.160 --> 00:47:03.559 marries a financial person and and you 00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:07.839 can't you can't act together 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.839 anymore but having said that on the 00:47:12.839 --> 00:47:15.599 global scale we are a huge unit of 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.760 action we 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.920 we extract resources we have these 00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.640 Global Supply chains we have these 00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:28.079 Global uh geopolitical systems and we do 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.800 this without any effort we become this 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.520 huge Wei if you're you know if you're 00:47:34.520 --> 00:47:36.040 like another animal and you're looking 00:47:36.040 --> 00:47:38.000 at the human species they're like a 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.520 we're like a swarm of ants that is 00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:43.559 really really really coordinated and 00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.760 active and powerful and 00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:50.960 destructive we are without trying a huge 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.760 we it's just not the we anyone wants to 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.280 be or do we want to be this is the big 00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.760 conundrum of all these experiments 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.400 everyone's trying to become a we and not 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.440 realizing that should how we need to 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.720 understand that we are a we and it's so 00:48:07.720 --> 00:48:09.599 Insidious we don't even have to try to 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.440 be a wee we can even try not to be a we 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.359 and we're part of that unit of action so 00:48:15.359 --> 00:48:17.160 if you're interested in creating wi 00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:19.280 spaces you have to come to terms with 00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:21.680 this 00:48:24.640 --> 00:48:27.640 paradox 00:48:33.720 --> 00:48:36.839 I have a question for you because of 00:48:36.839 --> 00:48:38.960 your 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:40.520 dogs 00:48:40.520 --> 00:48:44.200 um yeah um so a friend of mine who lives 00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:47.200 on a penthouse but there's no 00:48:47.200 --> 00:48:50.960 elevator um has this huge great thing 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.880 that has decided that's it I'm not going 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:57.599 up those stairs 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.799 and so Lucy that's her name she's 00:49:01.799 --> 00:49:06.040 staying with me now so he's got this 200 00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:08.559 square meter Penthouse I've got this 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:11.559 little Studio but the only place in the 00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:14.280 village where this dog could be is in my 00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.440 studio so there's been this really 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:21.640 interesting kind of thing happening 00:49:21.640 --> 00:49:26.680 right and um in contemplating Lucy who's 00:49:26.680 --> 00:49:28.920 had the grace to accept 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:33.599 me you know like we get that this is 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.640 where she can live right 00:49:36.640 --> 00:49:40.799 now um it struck me how all dogs came 00:49:40.799 --> 00:49:42.880 from 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:46.119 wolves and I remember this Bruno tour 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.359 lecture where he put this slide of like 00:49:49.359 --> 00:49:52.880 what we've done to dogs for the sake of 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:56.079 having a domestic companion 00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:59.480 we've bred all these kinds of 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:03.280 weirdnesses and and this great dane you 00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:08.040 know her back legs are you know inbred 00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:10.119 anomaly that's why it's not only her 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:12.640 back legs their hearts are too small so 00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:15.640 their back legs give out first yeah 00:50:15.640 --> 00:50:19.400 exactly so it just struck me that you 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:22.160 know without talking about any moral 00:50:22.160 --> 00:50:24.440 judgments just the fact that we've 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:28.559 manipulated a wolf's jeans to this 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.000 extent from the chaha to the Great 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.960 Dane it it just kind of creeped me out 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.520 you know that I mean how much effort how 00:50:39.520 --> 00:50:43.839 much experimentation has gone into all 00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:46.240 this inbreeding for the 00:50:46.240 --> 00:50:50.240 sake of having a 00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:55.520 pet and I mean it was an outrage I 00:50:55.520 --> 00:50:59.359 hadn't really felt before at our own 00:50:59.359 --> 00:51:02.640 species you know and our I mean of 00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:04.400 course we do that with tomatoes and 00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.960 chickens and pigs and everything 00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:13.480 else people but you know these dogs just 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:18.520 give you like this crazy ass loyalty you 00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:20.119 know 00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:24.359 um that we can't seem to muster you know 00:51:24.359 --> 00:51:27.599 disloyalty without submission I mean 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.119 that's how I feel 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:33.359 it and oh she said something when I said 00:51:33.359 --> 00:51:35.599 that 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:38.760 um you know and and I'm also being 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:42.000 initiated into like pallative care 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.160 because her back legs it's so hard for 00:51:45.160 --> 00:51:48.319 her to get up that she poops a little 00:51:48.319 --> 00:51:51.480 bit when she gets up you know and of 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:53.520 course I'm just in the studio so I can 00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:55.880 smell it and then I'm growing through 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.000 this whole thing in my head saying I'm 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.839 just conditioned to think that this is a 00:52:01.839 --> 00:52:04.559 bad smell stop it you know just get up 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.480 deal with it you know and and and it's 00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:09.880 like this whole dispositionality is 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:14.680 being tested oh my God like you know 00:52:14.680 --> 00:52:20.000 into like put putri action okay and and 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:23.079 I like it I mean I like the challenge 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:26.040 you know like it feels right for the 00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:31.040 time to be tested at that level and I 00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:35.599 guess that's kind of what I'm um 00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:40.839 embracing honestly in the adventure of 00:52:40.839 --> 00:52:43.200 dispositionality not as some kind of 00:52:43.200 --> 00:52:46.599 formula but as an adventure I mean how 00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:50.720 far can you take this in this 00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:54.319 deconditioning of what's acceptable 00:52:54.319 --> 00:52:56.480 what's not great thing to run 00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:59.200 experiments like this like you both 00:52:59.200 --> 00:53:01.720 realize it's not the whole but it's a 00:53:01.720 --> 00:53:04.119 very very interesting Adventure or 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:08.480 experiment to run you learn a lot 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:14.119 from these experiments that 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:19.880 that yeah my whole life is kind of like 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:23.079 one of those weird that kind of 00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:27.160 experiment um 00:53:30.839 --> 00:53:33.480 now do you think that could catch on as 00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:34.720 an 00:53:34.720 --> 00:53:38.119 egregor well okay this is the question 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:40.640 what is what makes an EG what makes it a 00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:44.079 catch on what are the components that 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:46.960 make people move at 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.720 scale and I mean we talked about them 00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:51.640 last time there were the four 00:53:51.640 --> 00:53:56.200 components and what you realize if you 00:53:56.200 --> 00:53:58.839 can if you can 00:53:58.839 --> 00:54:02.119 infect all you know if you can if you 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:06.160 can be effective in all four 00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:09.040 components 00:54:09.040 --> 00:54:12.839 um then you 00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:16.520 can then the system will run itself 00:54:16.520 --> 00:54:18.640 right so this reminds me of something 00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:20.680 when I first met Nora Bates and she had 00:54:20.680 --> 00:54:24.079 this theory of of change or 00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:27.359 whatever and the where she she got a 00:54:27.359 --> 00:54:30.079 grant to run the theory in a mental 00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:31.520 institution where they worked with 00:54:31.520 --> 00:54:34.200 addicts because she's like what makes 00:54:34.200 --> 00:54:36.319 people addicted like if you get people 00:54:36.319 --> 00:54:38.880 addicted to the right thing you know or 00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.839 it's kind of like asking that question 00:54:40.839 --> 00:54:43.079 what makes 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:46.480 us able to coordinate at such a large 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:47.599 global 00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:50.440 scale um 00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:54.720 and and figure out that and but use it 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:56.839 to different a different purpose you 00:54:56.839 --> 00:54:59.440 know the the pro problem is does it only 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:01.880 work if you're destructive and then if 00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:05.119 you want to uh have a culture that 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:09.400 creates more life it doesn't work like 00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.839 is that is that the case I mean I don't 00:55:12.839 --> 00:55:15.119 know it's it's an interesting 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.200 question but I think we have to come to 00:55:17.200 --> 00:55:19.640 the fact that without effort were this 00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:23.160 huge powerful unit on the face of the 00:55:23.160 --> 00:55:28.359 Earth and we and 00:55:28.720 --> 00:55:32.200 and it's there to tell us like like what 00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:34.680 are the components of being a huge 00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.799 powerful we on the 00:55:36.799 --> 00:55:40.880 earth um instead of only thinking like 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:42.520 we're try you know we have to have all 00:55:42.520 --> 00:55:45.599 these ex exotic psycho Technologies to 00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:50.280 become a Wei we need to learn what is 00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:53.400 what is already this huge powerful thing 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.480 that makes us this huge powerful 00:55:57.720 --> 00:56:00.559 we and somehow reproduce that to 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.960 different 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.520 purpose I mean some people would answer 00:56:14.520 --> 00:56:16.400 that in a very easy way it's because 00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:18.760 people are greedy so if you design this 00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.799 thing around greed then people become a 00:56:21.799 --> 00:56:23.640 huge powerful 00:56:23.640 --> 00:56:28.160 weat um is that the answer I don't think 00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:31.599 so um yeah but what what is greediness 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.200 though exactly then that then you would 00:56:34.200 --> 00:56:36.760 you would want to look at that like why 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:39.280 is so but some people would say that you 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:44.359 know some people would say but 00:56:45.799 --> 00:56:49.799 but yeah but for example white head has 00:56:49.799 --> 00:56:51.920 this great I'm not going to say it right 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.960 but it's something like uh it's in the 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:58.680 adventure of ideas that that peace can 00:56:58.680 --> 00:57:00.400 be 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.039 easily 00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:04.720 um 00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:07.920 perverted by its 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:11.520 aberation which is 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.880 anesthesia and I think consumerism was a 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:18.319 form of collective 00:57:18.319 --> 00:57:23.400 anesthesia coming out of the you know 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.880 knowing that we were capable 00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.079 of Exterminating ourselves after the 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:33.200 atomic bomb as a collective unconscious 00:57:33.200 --> 00:57:35.839 I mean I think we give ourselves too 00:57:35.839 --> 00:57:39.839 much of an illusion of individual agency 00:57:39.839 --> 00:57:43.240 you know that we are in an agregar all 00:57:43.240 --> 00:57:46.480 the time I 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:51.039 mean and that we've created this myth of 00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:52.400 um the 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:55.920 individual and that's sort of of what 00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:00.319 anesthetizes us from I mean what's that 00:58:00.319 --> 00:58:04.640 fungus that falls on an ant and takes 00:58:04.640 --> 00:58:07.359 over its 00:58:07.359 --> 00:58:10.839 neural um thing and makes 00:58:10.839 --> 00:58:15.599 it shortcuts their pro-social thing and 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.280 makes the ant just gather more food to 00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.119 feed the fungus until the fungus like 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:23.720 breaks through its head 00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:27.000 um I forget the name of it but it's very 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:28.680 curious 00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:32.760 thing and I I I feel 00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.440 like it's been this erroneous 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:38.960 exceptionalism about the human that 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.359 somehow is created in the image of a God 00:58:41.359 --> 00:58:43.680 and therefore not part of everything 00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:47.839 else and and so we don't even we can't 00:58:47.839 --> 00:58:51.400 onto epically conceive of ourselves as 00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:56.720 as being parasitical as being you know 00:58:56.799 --> 00:59:01.280 um not the captains of our soul you know 00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:05.400 whatever that is um and I think that 00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.280 with this connectivity with this melan 00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:11.200 age we have an opportunity to actually 00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:15.039 see that I mean I'm sure you know him 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:17.559 Bonita Patrick Ryan you know because he 00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:20.240 shows up at the sto yeah you know what I 00:59:20.240 --> 00:59:22.440 was wondering I'm looking at Marie and r 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.920 ray I'm wondering if the Italians have 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:27.520 concept of the 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:34.000 aggregor like do they worry about the 00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:41.319 egregor ask about their concept of 00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:50.319 pizza I don't 00:59:50.319 --> 00:59:53.640 know I don't know are we 00:59:53.640 --> 00:59:55.720 there we 00:59:55.720 --> 00:59:58.720 there 01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:03.599 yeah yeah I don't I don't 01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:07.799 know I don't know I I know that they 01:00:07.799 --> 01:00:10.520 that I 01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.000 experience um at least the Italians that 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.920 I'm around I experience them as a very 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:22.400 very different group that moves together 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:23.359 than I 01:00:23.359 --> 01:00:26.320 do with people that I hang out with back 01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.440 [Music] 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.079 home the culture has a different way of 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:33.799 moving around I don't think anybody can 01:00:33.799 --> 01:00:34.920 hear 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.520 us are we Frozen no we can hear you 01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:42.359 frozen you said the culture moves around 01:00:42.359 --> 01:00:44.559 differently oh 01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.200 okay yeah they move they're they're in 01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:49.680 relationship with with one another 01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:53.079 different sorry about that this is a 01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:56.240 makeshift thing here 01:00:56.240 --> 01:00:59.119 there yeah it's it's I don't you guys 01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.640 get deported and you're in like a cell 01:01:01.640 --> 01:01:02.640 now or 01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:05.119 something the Italians put you in some 01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:09.000 kind of detention center 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:12.599 did correct well it it actually might be 01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.039 worth telling um 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:21.520 Sandy Sandy said it um we're on a pizza 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.000 pilgrimage um we're we're in a place 01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:26.039 called 01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:30.680 Kazo and uh there's a guy here that's a 01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:31.760 third 01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:33.400 generation 01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:37.039 pizza maker and he broke off from the 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:41.520 family because he decided that pizza 01:01:41.520 --> 01:01:45.280 didn't have to be like a peasant food 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.359 and he wanted to make it something else 01:01:47.359 --> 01:01:51.039 and so he just kept experimenting and he 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:55.319 spent 12 years experimenting and it it 01:01:55.319 --> 01:01:58.640 cost him his marriage it cost him his 01:01:58.640 --> 01:02:01.680 family broke off from his brothers 01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:04.720 everything and and he's created 01:02:04.720 --> 01:02:08.599 something and so uh we came here we got 01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:12.480 off on the train this is um we're not 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:17.319 near anything but um like you yeah it's 01:02:17.319 --> 01:02:20.240 an old village on a hill and you get off 01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:22.480 the train and and and you just like 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.000 follow the people they're all coming 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.599 here for the pizza and it's like this I 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.559 I I mean this one guy has 01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:37.480 revitalized this this Village this town 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:39.960 that has gained this International 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:41.799 reputation 01:02:41.799 --> 01:02:45.680 for pizza and and and it's it's a 01:02:45.680 --> 01:02:48.680 medieval town it's yeah medieval town on 01:02:48.680 --> 01:02:51.000 a hill and he he's 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.720 engaged um you guys are all all the 01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:54.960 local farmers 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:57.640 yeah for us you're you're you're Frozen 01:02:57.640 --> 01:03:00.319 no no you're good you're good has a very 01:03:00.319 --> 01:03:02.520 smile on her face you're 01:03:02.520 --> 01:03:07.599 good um anyway so so yeah just like I 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:11.640 mean it's been it's it it it's very 01:03:11.640 --> 01:03:14.440 provocative in thinking about this 01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:18.480 experience in relationship to trying to 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.839 like make change happen in the world 01:03:21.839 --> 01:03:24.799 like he wasn't trying to create in the 01:03:24.799 --> 01:03:28.119 Middle East or do any Grand Endeavor he 01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:31.880 just loved pizza and and he's like 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:36.359 there's airbnbs all over this town and 01:03:36.359 --> 01:03:40.680 um he sources all the the ingredients 01:03:40.680 --> 01:03:45.319 for his pizzas from local farmers and 01:03:45.319 --> 01:03:49.200 and it just has so many Ripple effects 01:03:49.200 --> 01:03:52.319 from this simple thing and it's it's 01:03:52.319 --> 01:03:54.799 incredibly elegant at the same time 01:03:54.799 --> 01:03:58.720 it's very elegant so yeah 01:03:58.720 --> 01:04:01.319 that's so I would say this is lyric 01:04:01.319 --> 01:04:03.680 culture because it's you you become 01:04:03.680 --> 01:04:06.520 obsessed with the particular you know 01:04:06.520 --> 01:04:08.920 what is the particular and you just you 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:12.799 just it's not about the global or the 01:04:12.799 --> 01:04:16.920 the it it's it's these pockets of 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:22.240 particularity and um 01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:25.760 um which answers to me answers the 01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:28.839 egregor question it's it's the pursuit 01:04:28.839 --> 01:04:33.839 of of culture at scale is a distortion 01:04:33.839 --> 01:04:36.440 it it is what turns culture into 01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:40.200 evil this we've been at it for you know 01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:43.680 15,000 years culture only moves into 01:04:43.680 --> 01:04:46.200 larger fewer and fewer types and larger 01:04:46.200 --> 01:04:49.240 and larger scale and at a certain point 01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:52.240 it's an the inflection point it culture 01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:54.720 becomes uh 01:04:54.720 --> 01:04:59.680 renic um so if you had more people you 01:04:59.680 --> 01:05:02.319 know so here he's he if you have more 01:05:02.319 --> 01:05:05.319 people following 01:05:05.319 --> 01:05:08.039 peculiarities you would have a different 01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.680 type of 01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:13.119 relationship you would have individuals 01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:15.839 that were connected by their 01:05:15.839 --> 01:05:18.960 unique um gifts 01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:21.720 versus by these 01:05:21.720 --> 01:05:24.640 massive uh means by which people just do 01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.319 what they're 01:05:26.319 --> 01:05:29.799 told it's it's palpable it was it's 01:05:29.799 --> 01:05:32.680 really inspiring to sort of Step into 01:05:32.680 --> 01:05:35.960 the Ambiance of all 01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:38.920 that it's the same with that film 01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:41.160 100,000 beating Hearts the guy started 01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:43.520 to farm differently now he's on Twitter 01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:46.240 and he's on the TV was on Joe Rogan they 01:05:46.240 --> 01:05:48.279 have a whole Community it's white white 01:05:48.279 --> 01:05:51.520 out pastures and they've gone on to do 01:05:51.520 --> 01:05:55.799 all kinds of things by one person's 01:05:55.799 --> 01:05:59.480 decision obl obligatory 01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:04.359 vow um and I think that this is 01:06:04.359 --> 01:06:06.160 the the 01:06:06.160 --> 01:06:09.119 Paradox because everybody's trying to 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:10.720 run culture 01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:14.799 through rules of 01:06:14.799 --> 01:06:16.799 scale 01:06:16.799 --> 01:06:19.960 and um this just 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:22.720 reproduces Mass 01:06:22.720 --> 01:06:25.200 Consciousness which becomes destructive 01:06:25.200 --> 01:06:29.279 because it can be colonized by 01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:38.000 power is there a way 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.559 that some I don't even know what to say 01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:46.480 group can create you know at huge scale 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.079 a 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:52.000 real embracing of true 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:55.039 diversity you see the the challenge here 01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:59.359 or The Leverage is not in trying to 01:06:59.359 --> 01:07:02.039 create something else another Goliath at 01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:04.640 scale that can fight the Goliath that's 01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:08.559 there it's this people to stop paying 01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:11.200 attention to being part of what is what 01:07:11.200 --> 01:07:14.279 scales and to spend their all their life 01:07:14.279 --> 01:07:18.119 in voluntary obligation to something in 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.279 particular spend all your life gardening 01:07:21.279 --> 01:07:23.319 and get a little job on the side if you 01:07:23.319 --> 01:07:24.680 have to 01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:26.359 and then you don't you don't contribute 01:07:26.359 --> 01:07:30.599 to the thing but all the Consciousness 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.880 even among young people want to change 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:34.760 the system is all let's build another 01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:36.799 big system and what I'm saying it's a 01:07:36.799 --> 01:07:40.680 convivial tool is that that culture at 01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:43.520 scale is 01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:47.279 evil because to become culture at scale 01:07:47.279 --> 01:07:49.319 you have to swallow other cultures and 01:07:49.319 --> 01:07:52.920 then mass mass condition 01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:55.920 them 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:01.520 that cultures flourish when they they 01:08:01.520 --> 01:08:05.480 they're allowed to diverse and divest 01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:08.119 into their 01:08:22.839 --> 01:08:25.839 particulars 01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:28.120 and what are there there's only 200 01:08:28.120 --> 01:08:31.040 Nations and everybody speaks English you 01:08:31.040 --> 01:08:33.480 know there's like there's no there's no 01:08:33.480 --> 01:08:36.319 cultures left there's just this big a 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.000 glutenous 01:08:52.799 --> 01:08:55.799 mass 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:02.319 there are some cultures 01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.359 left yes and I think there's a lot of 01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:08.679 little emerging ones yeah yeah and 01:09:08.679 --> 01:09:12.040 there's ones that very often weaving 01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:15.719 back into what we were talking about 01:09:15.719 --> 01:09:19.759 before with the music um language is a 01:09:19.759 --> 01:09:20.600 type 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:25.120 of music it's a type of in 01:09:25.120 --> 01:09:27.279 rment 01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:31.400 um and I loved I loved what was said 01:09:31.400 --> 01:09:36.560 about how you can notice how the Italian 01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:40.279 culture sort of moves differently yes 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:43.799 and there is like a 01:09:43.799 --> 01:09:46.560 um there's a 01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:50.640 body uh patterning movement patterning 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:51.480 to 01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:55.920 culture um and some of that can be seen 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:58.320 in you know stereotypes that people make 01:09:58.320 --> 01:10:00.880 but it's also kind of 01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:05.640 a way way that people come to relate and 01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:08.880 communicate on a body level 01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:13.239 um yeah I'm I'm heading to Argentina to 01:10:13.239 --> 01:10:14.440 study the 01:10:14.440 --> 01:10:18.600 tango and um I'm really excited to do 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:22.640 that because it's um it's really 01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:24.640 uh 01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:27.360 a folk 01:10:27.360 --> 01:10:29.360 dance that 01:10:29.360 --> 01:10:32.679 originated in multip in a multiplicity 01:10:32.679 --> 01:10:33.679 of 01:10:33.679 --> 01:10:36.159 diversity and there was a way of 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:38.080 relating to one another that crossed 01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:41.239 language REM movement especially for 01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:45.159 people who had left family and felt 01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:46.679 lonely 01:10:46.679 --> 01:10:50.719 um and at it at its core is the embrace 01:10:50.719 --> 01:10:51.880 the the 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:54.199 hug um 01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:57.120 which hearkens back once again 01:10:57.120 --> 01:11:01.000 to being held by by a caregiver at the 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:04.040 very beginning heart tohe heart 01:11:04.040 --> 01:11:06.760 soed to be ENT trained in that culture 01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:08.920 yeah no this is a big Insight because if 01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:11.320 you think 01:11:13.080 --> 01:11:16.960 about um if you think about a lot of 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:19.600 them some of the Mediterranean 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:22.080 cultures um some of the a lot of the 01:11:22.080 --> 01:11:24.880 resistance that comes from like France 01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:28.520 Italy Greece is that the people 01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:32.360 literally refuse to move a certain way 01:11:32.360 --> 01:11:34.960 like you know if you're like a big Tech 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:36.840 startup and stuff you want to see people 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:39.320 moving right and it's like it's like 01:11:39.320 --> 01:11:40.760 just their 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:44.000 physical drag from this mod you know 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.040 you're like they they're so slow Manana 01:11:47.040 --> 01:11:50.840 like this whole this whole thing is very 01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:54.960 politically very very positive you know 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:58.040 resistance just the refusal to move your 01:11:58.040 --> 01:12:00.600 body in a certain way is very powerful 01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:02.840 resistance I mean anyone that's been 01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:04.520 trying to teach high school kids and 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.719 then you know come on we gotta go here 01:12:06.719 --> 01:12:09.280 and then they just their bodies just 01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:11.880 they just don't robera is laughing do 01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:14.920 you know but this is this is you know 01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:16.480 then of course it gets the activist 01:12:16.480 --> 01:12:18.440 going they won't they just lay down and 01:12:18.440 --> 01:12:21.440 stuff like this but in the everyday life 01:12:21.440 --> 01:12:24.480 this a very powerful if you learn to 01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:26.960 move differently if you learn to move 01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.520 your body in different ways this becomes 01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.159 an act of resistance just naturally I 01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:36.120 would say that that is a 01:12:36.120 --> 01:12:39.600 big a big part of cultural change is 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.639 exactly what what you just said um it's 01:12:42.639 --> 01:12:45.400 not trivial it's 01:12:45.400 --> 01:12:48.400 fundamental 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.600 um 01:12:52.440 --> 01:12:55.440 yeah 01:13:06.280 --> 01:13:08.199 are you saying we should get out of our 01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:11.880 chairs when you start your 01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.360 playlist I don't know what I'm 01:13:22.360 --> 01:13:25.360 saying 01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:52.159 but the concept of Igor is really 01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:55.639 interesting and and how has 01:13:57.159 --> 01:14:00.400 to be 01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:25.280 understood 01:14:27.320 --> 01:14:33.120 just um going going back to um how when 01:14:33.120 --> 01:14:37.320 systems become too large they 01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:41.000 lose some of the 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:43.920 essence um 01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.880 I'm I've observed I've been practicing 01:14:46.880 --> 01:14:50.480 Tango for a while and um it's very it's 01:14:50.480 --> 01:14:52.400 wonderful there are a lot of beautiful 01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:53.880 great things about it 01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:58.760 it um and it also has moved away from 01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:01.639 its Essence which add its Essence was a 01:15:01.639 --> 01:15:02.679 community 01:15:02.679 --> 01:15:05.040 dance where children danced with aunts 01:15:05.040 --> 01:15:06.760 and uncles and 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:08.840 grandparents it wasn't just about being 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:11.719 sexy even though it's great to be sexy 01:15:11.719 --> 01:15:16.040 but it was about Community Connection 01:15:16.040 --> 01:15:18.719 and a witness a circle of 01:15:18.719 --> 01:15:22.199 witnesses holding space for the 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:25.520 interpersonal connection of the 01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:28.080 community you know similar to break 01:15:28.080 --> 01:15:30.360 dancing at its roots and now of course 01:15:30.360 --> 01:15:34.520 ex captured yeah this that's right the 01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:38.320 scene and the youth and the development 01:15:38.320 --> 01:15:42.480 of it um and the 01:15:42.480 --> 01:15:46.800 performance um yeah 01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:49.800 um these are all things to look at in 01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:51.360 terms of 01:15:51.360 --> 01:15:54.320 like how things natur 01:15:54.320 --> 01:15:57.400 emerge um we can learn from them they're 01:15:57.400 --> 01:15:59.600 still in the human 01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.480 system 01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:04.960 and I think trying 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:08.040 to I mean I think it odd psycho 01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:09.719 Technologies are important you can learn 01:16:09.719 --> 01:16:14.840 a lot from them but I think they 01:16:19.080 --> 01:16:21.679 they I think they're too Fringe I think 01:16:21.679 --> 01:16:23.520 there's an answer right in the the heart 01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.800 of who we are as humans right in the 01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:30.719 heart of what culture is and how it has 01:16:30.719 --> 01:16:32.960 and always has sustained 01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:35.000 itself 01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:37.920 um and a lot of the psycho Technologies 01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:41.480 I think are to break the old habits you 01:16:41.480 --> 01:16:43.080 know but I don't think they're 01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:45.800 necessarily 01:16:47.040 --> 01:16:49.920 templates this is something I an illich 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.360 would say you know most of religion now 01:16:52.360 --> 01:16:55.600 should be people eating around the table 01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:59.040 friends you know uh and 01:16:59.040 --> 01:17:02.040 so 01:17:02.679 --> 01:17:05.040 um I mean that's this is the 01:17:05.040 --> 01:17:07.000 conversation we're having today like 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:08.560 there's there's something 01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.199 in our default mode that's actually very 01:17:12.199 --> 01:17:18.920 valuable that can help us um and 01:17:21.280 --> 01:17:24.080 um yeah that's why I love what Marie and 01:17:24.080 --> 01:17:27.199 and Ry said like something as how could 01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:31.400 something as transformative as 01:17:31.400 --> 01:17:35.280 pizza or you 01:17:39.120 --> 01:17:42.560 know there are kiosks in parts of the 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:44.360 city that are like that they've been 01:17:44.360 --> 01:17:47.040 around um I'm not sure in America but 01:17:47.040 --> 01:17:50.280 there's some in in 01:17:50.400 --> 01:17:53.239 Japan that have been around for six or 01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:53.660 seven 01:17:53.660 --> 01:17:55.480 [Music] 01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:58.400 generations and people get married on 01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:02.440 the street around these kiosks 01:18:06.080 --> 01:18:10.000 and something like that's very very 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.440 important to study 01:18:12.440 --> 01:18:14.679 also that you know these aren't Fringe 01:18:14.679 --> 01:18:17.679 things these are Timeless kinds of kind 01:18:17.679 --> 01:18:20.280 of things that then when you try to do 01:18:20.280 --> 01:18:21.800 them again they look Fringe right 01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:24.320 because it's like who does that anymore 01:18:24.320 --> 01:18:28.480 right so that they can look bizarre when 01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:31.760 they're resurrected inside Modern Life 01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:34.040 but these are interesting questions 01:18:34.040 --> 01:18:37.159 about the human 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:42.239 condition and anyways lyric 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:45.280 culture she she she talks a lot about 01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:48.280 Domesticity in this way has a it can 01:18:48.280 --> 01:18:49.760 feel like a 01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:51.920 throwback 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.920 um 01:18:55.400 --> 01:19:00.080 the solution can feel so trivial and so 01:19:00.080 --> 01:19:02.080 simple that you're almost too 01:19:02.080 --> 01:19:05.120 embarrassed to suggest it like you know 01:19:05.120 --> 01:19:07.840 like I want to revolutionize pizza or 01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:10.440 whatever and then you find that the 01:19:10.440 --> 01:19:13.199 certain kind of energy can draw in can 01:19:13.199 --> 01:19:15.560 transform an Old Village you know and 01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:17.600 can remake society 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.600 and 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:23.320 yeah but I agree with you there's a lot 01:19:23.320 --> 01:19:25.000 of that kind of stuff happening not 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.639 everyone not every initiative gets 01:19:29.639 --> 01:19:32.800 viral on YouTube and then gets like a 01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:38.000 bunch of airbnbs around it but I think 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:41.480 that having a strong Center could be an 01:19:41.480 --> 01:19:44.920 educational thing it could be a a farm 01:19:44.920 --> 01:19:49.080 thing it could be a dance Community um 01:19:49.080 --> 01:19:52.920 as a center um and then operate along 01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:55.159 some of these convivial ways of being 01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:58.120 these trust networks and yeah building 01:19:58.120 --> 01:20:00.560 it out from there I think this these 01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:03.120 things are 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:24.760 possible 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:36.560 Bonnie I thought I saw catala raise her 01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:40.159 hand maybe it was 01:20:40.199 --> 01:20:43.679 inadvertent you may be 01:20:51.719 --> 01:20:54.719 oppression 01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:39.800 you know one of the things that is 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:42.520 common with if you think of the 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:47.480 Jazz culture as it emerges or this pizza 01:21:47.480 --> 01:21:49.800 culture 01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:51.960 um they're they're certainly not 01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:53.600 established 01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:56.520 on the premise to make money I mean over 01:21:56.520 --> 01:21:59.000 time they become you know co-opted in 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:02.000 big deals and stuff but 01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:04.840 um people just make sacri they they're 01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:07.400 just so in love with the pursuit of 01:22:07.400 --> 01:22:12.080 something um and as you guys said and if 01:22:12.080 --> 01:22:14.600 you take a really hard right turn into 01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:15.679 being 01:22:15.679 --> 01:22:18.960 that in love with a pursuit of something 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:22.199 then you like JK Rollins you know you 01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:24.560 get really poor and you your 01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:26.920 relationships suffer all these all these 01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:31.600 standard ways of being actually stuer 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:35.800 suffer and 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:54.560 um 01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:08.159 there's a lot of Secrets too you're 01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:10.159 never gonna find out how he makes his 01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:13.679 pizza I hope you realize 01:23:21.480 --> 01:23:24.480 this 01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.159 yeah that's actually that's really 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:30.520 interesting I've been working at Joe for 01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:32.199 a couple of years now and I've learned a 01:23:32.199 --> 01:23:35.520 little bit and then eating this eating 01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:37.719 this guy's food I realized that there's 01:23:37.719 --> 01:23:41.360 no way not only can I learn it I don't 01:23:41.360 --> 01:23:42.840 want to learn 01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:46.159 it it's like I don't want to own 01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:49.360 that it it was such a gift to be on the 01:23:49.360 --> 01:23:51.480 receiving end of 01:23:51.480 --> 01:23:54.480 it 01:23:59.080 --> 01:24:01.159 and a lot of those what's in common with 01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:03.120 a lot of these things is you know bread 01:24:03.120 --> 01:24:06.120 is complex because it it's if it's yeast 01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:08.960 based it's a it's alive I mean you're 01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.600 working with a living 01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:15.199 system and these people they they wine 01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:19.840 is the same way they relate to the life 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:21.360 force of the 01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:24.360 thing 01:24:25.360 --> 01:24:27.719 which is subject to responsiveness to 01:24:27.719 --> 01:24:31.320 the environment you know and and the way 01:24:31.320 --> 01:24:34.080 you move your hands and on and on and on 01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:35.040 and 01:24:35.040 --> 01:24:38.040 on 01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:45.880 um 01:24:51.360 --> 01:24:54.360 yeah 01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:11.440 you hear that dog crying in the 01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:14.719 background oh 01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:23.920 good he's on the porch and he wants to 01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:25.760 go in the house and Sandy can't hear him 01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:30.040 so he sounds like he sounds like this is 01:25:30.040 --> 01:25:35.719 poor abused animal outside my 01:25:37.360 --> 01:25:39.880 window Bonnie are you back in your 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:42.360 studio 01:25:42.360 --> 01:25:45.360 yes yes I have a whole new setup so 01:25:45.360 --> 01:25:47.159 we're gonna have some fun things I'm 01:25:47.159 --> 01:25:51.520 trying to set it up so we can have like 01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:53.719 a half it won't be here it'll be over 01:25:53.719 --> 01:25:55.600 there and there'll be like because I 01:25:55.600 --> 01:25:57.239 have all these visitors coming in 01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:59.520 November and that we could have some 01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:03.239 sessions where we stream live to the 01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:04.440 popup 01:26:04.440 --> 01:26:07.199 school um so you I can't do it now 01:26:07.199 --> 01:26:08.639 because I'm not sure to do it but this 01:26:08.639 --> 01:26:12.639 camera can go whyde can you know have 01:26:12.639 --> 01:26:14.440 see around I'm trying to make a little 01:26:14.440 --> 01:26:20.119 schedule huh so so 01:26:20.119 --> 01:26:24.440 um yeah that's trying to set it up um it 01:26:24.440 --> 01:26:26.679 was very frustrating trying to set up 01:26:26.679 --> 01:26:29.880 this station because it's it's powered 01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:32.840 by a Microsoft Surface Pro which is a 01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:34.440 pretty good 01:26:34.440 --> 01:26:37.440 processor um but it's old generation so 01:26:37.440 --> 01:26:40.600 all the the hookups and the ports are 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:43.679 different I mean it was just crazy 01:26:43.679 --> 01:26:46.840 how how how many things I bought that 01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:48.639 were wrong which is fine you just send 01:26:48.639 --> 01:26:52.920 them back but um I'm still um in need of 01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:55.520 one other cable and one other external 01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:57.760 speaker um but I've been trying to set 01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.199 it up 01:27:00.280 --> 01:27:04.520 so um we can have live stream events 01:27:04.520 --> 01:27:10.159 from here uh for the popup 01:27:11.040 --> 01:27:13.920 school so we do have quite a few 01:27:13.920 --> 01:27:18.639 visitors coming in November 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:24.119 um 01:27:34.679 --> 01:27:36.560 it's all right I'd like to Loop all the 01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.400 way back to something that came up when 01:27:40.400 --> 01:27:43.280 Melina was talking about Lucy the great 01:27:43.280 --> 01:27:46.679 danne and mentioned that you know in 01:27:46.679 --> 01:27:49.360 addition to dogs you know humans have 01:27:49.360 --> 01:27:53.000 bred chickens and tomatoes and and you 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:56.440 popped in with humans and I was just 01:27:56.440 --> 01:27:59.480 curious if you would elaborate on what 01:27:59.480 --> 01:28:00.960 you 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:03.679 meant um well I think what we are 01:28:03.679 --> 01:28:06.440 talking about is kind of 01:28:06.440 --> 01:28:09.760 making distorting the 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:14.040 natural the Natural Evolution of 01:28:14.040 --> 01:28:18.360 animals um uh selectively distorting 01:28:18.360 --> 01:28:21.800 well we can I can go from more concrete 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.800 to more abstract so for example um what 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:29.520 when you wage war on an indigenous 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:34.360 population you get rid of all the uh 01:28:34.360 --> 01:28:36.560 most powerful men 01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:39.960 first and you end up with a passive 01:28:39.960 --> 01:28:44.520 population the opposite is happening in 01:28:44.840 --> 01:28:47.080 Palestine because what's happening in 01:28:47.080 --> 01:28:50.199 Palestine is you're selecting for 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:52.760 radicalized population 01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:55.239 because early on the the peaceful people 01:28:55.239 --> 01:28:58.159 leave and over time the population gets 01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:00.040 more 01:29:00.040 --> 01:29:04.199 radicalized it's just it's just a law of 01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:07.800 nature um so there's a lot of policies 01:29:07.800 --> 01:29:12.000 uh on a a geopolitical scale that 01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:15.400 um selectively breed there's a famous 01:29:15.400 --> 01:29:21.159 study in London about um this this about 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:22.679 bringing in 01:29:22.679 --> 01:29:25.679 immigrants and if you have immigrants 01:29:25.679 --> 01:29:29.760 and and they don't they don't um 01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:31.480 integrate well in the neighborhood the 01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:33.840 worst thing you can do is put up a wall 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:35.480 if you put up a wall the the 01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:37.600 neighborhoods become more violent they 01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:41.400 they become more violent to each other 01:29:41.400 --> 01:29:45.159 so there's there's there's a lot of uh 01:29:45.159 --> 01:29:47.320 the prison population in the US is a 01:29:47.320 --> 01:29:49.400 selective breeding 01:29:49.400 --> 01:29:52.239 program uh Reagan's war on drug drugs 01:29:52.239 --> 01:29:54.719 was a selective breeding 01:29:54.719 --> 01:29:57.840 program um basically to have more and 01:29:57.840 --> 01:30:03.480 more pacified um pacified citizenship uh 01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:07.239 China's very good at selective breeding 01:30:07.239 --> 01:30:08.960 uh programs better than the us because 01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:10.480 they have much more of a centralized 01:30:10.480 --> 01:30:13.040 government and we have Texas you know 01:30:13.040 --> 01:30:16.000 Texas is like they're crazy 01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:18.840 right um 01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:20.520 so 01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:24.600 um um so the Distortion so we so this 01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:27.440 distinction between the nature of mind 01:30:27.440 --> 01:30:30.440 and the kinds of Minds we have have so 01:30:30.440 --> 01:30:33.199 we have the nature of our minds is human 01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:35.400 mind but the kinds of Minds we have 01:30:35.400 --> 01:30:38.880 today has been selectively B bred into 01:30:38.880 --> 01:30:40.760 us 01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:44.840 um so 01:30:46.280 --> 01:30:49.280 um 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:53.840 yeah 01:30:57.320 --> 01:30:59.440 the kinds of diets we have 01:30:59.440 --> 01:31:02.920 today hormone you know hormones and the 01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:06.800 all this stuff um like what a big big 01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:09.760 selective breeding program on the west 01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:16.560 is um the um obesity and diab diabetes 01:31:16.560 --> 01:31:19.600 problem it's not natural no one 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:23.440 understands it people there's if it's 01:31:23.440 --> 01:31:25.960 not because it's you know there's so 01:31:25.960 --> 01:31:29.199 many correlations and there's this huge 01:31:29.199 --> 01:31:36.040 huge multi-year huge Cross Research 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:40.119 metaanalysis um that's very important 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:42.320 because get 01:31:42.320 --> 01:31:46.520 this the wild animals are getting fatter 01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:49.000 too so first they noticed the animals in 01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:50.360 the zoos and they were like okay 01:31:50.360 --> 01:31:52.520 processed food blah blah blah the wild 01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:55.000 animals are getting fatter 01:31:55.000 --> 01:31:56.920 too so this 01:31:56.920 --> 01:31:59.239 metaanalysis the two top things they 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:03.520 think is um obesity in animal 01:32:03.520 --> 01:32:07.000 populations and humans is always 01:32:07.000 --> 01:32:10.080 associated with lower latitudes 01:32:10.080 --> 01:32:13.960 altitudes and the and the lower 01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:16.880 watersheds there's so many 01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:20.840 anti-depressants in in in the water and 01:32:20.840 --> 01:32:23.480 steroids in the water so people that 01:32:23.480 --> 01:32:24.520 have go on 01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:27.880 anti-depressants get fat people who take 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:30.320 steroids get fat animal farm animal 01:32:30.320 --> 01:32:31.760 steroids that's why they give farm 01:32:31.760 --> 01:32:33.960 animal steroids and antibiotics because 01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:37.119 it produces weight so the problem the 01:32:37.119 --> 01:32:39.600 epidemic is because in the Watershed is 01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:42.560 what they believe now so you go on and 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:44.679 on and on about public policy and you 01:32:44.679 --> 01:32:46.679 got the diet pills and you got the fight 01:32:46.679 --> 01:32:48.360 the people who are arguing againsts and 01:32:48.360 --> 01:32:50.080 then youve got the African-Americans 01:32:50.080 --> 01:32:51.800 that happen to be in the low water shed 01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:53.320 you got all this 01:32:53.320 --> 01:32:56.560 and it's not any of those things 01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.480 it's a very very multi-dimensional 01:32:59.480 --> 01:33:04.159 complex problem that is environmental at 01:33:04.159 --> 01:33:07.119 scale so that's selective breeding the 01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:09.719 the the the culture selectively breeds 01:33:09.719 --> 01:33:12.600 for obese 01:33:12.600 --> 01:33:16.199 diabetic people like a sharpi like 01:33:16.199 --> 01:33:18.800 Sharpes you know they have really bad 01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:20.639 they're a kind of a dog and they have 01:33:20.639 --> 01:33:22.480 really bad skin problem because they 01:33:22.480 --> 01:33:27.080 have like folds and folds and folds of 01:33:27.480 --> 01:33:30.600 skin and pugs can't breathe and they 01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:31.719 can't have 01:33:31.719 --> 01:33:34.360 children because because they're so 01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:39.400 deformed so these are these are with 01:33:39.400 --> 01:33:42.040 animals uh we breed for you know the 01:33:42.040 --> 01:33:44.400 same way we build these 01:33:44.400 --> 01:33:47.280 architectures that are buildings that 01:33:47.280 --> 01:33:49.080 are not alive they're 01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:52.760 anti-life um 01:33:52.760 --> 01:33:56.880 these things are are not in service to 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:58.400 life 01:33:58.400 --> 01:34:01.400 they're 01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:05.560 yeah so one thing I've added to my 01:34:05.560 --> 01:34:08.080 dispositionality 01:34:08.080 --> 01:34:10.679 Adventures um has 01:34:10.679 --> 01:34:14.800 been um this thing from Aaron Manning 01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:18.080 was really taken on this notion of 01:34:18.080 --> 01:34:22.400 neurot typicality as systemic not 01:34:22.400 --> 01:34:25.639 individual I mean it's kind of a moving 01:34:25.639 --> 01:34:28.080 horizon line that's produced by every 01:34:28.080 --> 01:34:31.360 era so to speak and I would say with 01:34:31.360 --> 01:34:35.080 Alexander the paradigmatic of the 01:34:35.080 --> 01:34:37.239 technology and 01:34:37.239 --> 01:34:39.719 um 01:34:39.719 --> 01:34:42.000 neurodiversity 01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:46.159 um as this exploration you know without 01:34:46.159 --> 01:34:49.920 comparison where I read this book called 01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:54.719 Plankton Dreams by artistic author and I 01:34:54.719 --> 01:34:58.080 really recommend it because it was 90 01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:00.199 Pages it was very 01:35:00.199 --> 01:35:03.159 transformative the main character is a 01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:06.880 boy who has to go to a special needs 01:35:06.880 --> 01:35:10.000 program just to kind of help his mother 01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:13.679 who is doing workshops to explain how 01:35:13.679 --> 01:35:17.719 she works with him and he knows what 01:35:17.719 --> 01:35:21.560 he's going to be facing and he sets 01:35:21.560 --> 01:35:24.440 himself is only his own learning goals 01:35:24.440 --> 01:35:28.960 and he says so why wouldn't an autistic 01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:31.000 study neurot 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:34.520 typicality and and it's just beautifully 01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:38.719 written with wonderful irony and 01:35:38.719 --> 01:35:43.159 satire and it just struck me that narot 01:35:43.159 --> 01:35:45.280 typicality as 01:35:45.280 --> 01:35:46.920 a 01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:52.040 um kind of almost moal you know like a 01:35:52.040 --> 01:35:53.600 luggage 01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:58.239 word could help us kind of understand 01:35:58.239 --> 01:36:00.760 how first all you can never be 01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:04.960 neurotypical enough you know whatever 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:10.679 the context demands that n typ to 01:36:10.679 --> 01:36:13.239 be and 01:36:13.239 --> 01:36:17.159 so in relating to each person like he 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:22.040 says his name is Tito so he's Tito istic 01:36:22.040 --> 01:36:24.600 and Eileen is 01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:29.280 alistic and Bonita would be 01:36:29.280 --> 01:36:34.800 bistic you know and it's I don't know if 01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:36.560 I can 01:36:36.560 --> 01:36:40.639 articulate the kind of metamorphosis 01:36:40.639 --> 01:36:44.480 that that played but it it it has 01:36:44.480 --> 01:36:46.639 allowed me because like the owner of 01:36:46.639 --> 01:36:49.880 Lucy is kind of what would be 01:36:49.880 --> 01:36:52.760 conventionally called on the Spectrum 01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:57.119 he's kind of a polymath but you know you 01:36:57.119 --> 01:37:01.119 can't speak to him the same way as you 01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:04.280 would narot typically expect and you 01:37:04.280 --> 01:37:06.679 know we've been so playful around this 01:37:06.679 --> 01:37:10.159 whole Lucy thing partially because I'm 01:37:10.159 --> 01:37:13.760 not expecting him to really understand 01:37:13.760 --> 01:37:16.199 that for me to have this huge dog in my 01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:17.400 little 01:37:17.400 --> 01:37:21.280 studio is not a neurotypical situation 01:37:21.280 --> 01:37:23.280 and I'm having to be 01:37:23.280 --> 01:37:27.960 neurodiverse to open up to that and in 01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:29.360 that way I can have a different 01:37:29.360 --> 01:37:32.199 conversation with him and then that 01:37:32.199 --> 01:37:34.639 changes the conversation of anybody else 01:37:34.639 --> 01:37:37.000 who asks me how are you putting up with 01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:40.440 this situation of this dog that poops at 01:37:40.440 --> 01:37:45.159 3:00 a.m. and whatever and and somehow 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:50.239 that entire kind of well with the bio 01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:52.320 course that he's doing right now and 01:37:52.320 --> 01:37:55.199 with Aon Manning they've basically come 01:37:55.199 --> 01:37:59.280 to this having narot typicality and 01:37:59.280 --> 01:38:02.960 colonialism be one of the same 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:05.760 thing which of course keeps 01:38:05.760 --> 01:38:08.639 morphing depending on whatever context 01:38:08.639 --> 01:38:14.760 you're in um so I don't know how in the 01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:19.440 popup school that would play out but for 01:38:19.440 --> 01:38:23.000 me it's been 01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:26.920 really kind of infusing humor and 01:38:26.920 --> 01:38:29.360 curiosity 01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:31.599 and uh 01:38:31.599 --> 01:38:34.040 suspending these other ways where 01:38:34.040 --> 01:38:36.920 entitlement sort of interferes with the 01:38:36.920 --> 01:38:40.599 ability to engage with actually what's 01:38:40.599 --> 01:38:44.239 unfolding like what about me and you 01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:46.560 know who's thinking how this is 01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:49.480 affecting me or whatever and it's like 01:38:49.480 --> 01:38:52.239 who the cares you know the self 01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:55.800 construct anyway you 01:39:03.599 --> 01:39:06.560 know yeah I mean that's a whole another 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:09.599 thing I I I I'm hoping that 01:39:09.599 --> 01:39:14.080 bio he's I believe he'll be in 01:39:14.080 --> 01:39:18.440 Massachusetts this year coming year 01:39:18.440 --> 01:39:21.440 2024 and I'm hoping he'll bring his L 01:39:21.440 --> 01:39:24.360 down to work with the 01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:26.070 horses 01:39:26.070 --> 01:39:28.159 [Music] 01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:30.040 um we'll 01:39:30.040 --> 01:39:33.560 see that would be great you know I mean 01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:37.080 he brings in are you familiar bunny with 01:39:37.080 --> 01:39:40.599 Fon D 01:39:41.639 --> 01:39:44.360 work no but I think there's a lot to 01:39:44.360 --> 01:39:47.360 explore like with bio 01:39:47.360 --> 01:39:49.800 like I wouldn't say I 01:39:49.800 --> 01:39:55.760 agree with everywhere he's going with 01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:59.880 like colon like I like his Exile his 01:39:59.880 --> 01:40:03.159 Sanctuary um this this this is a 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:07.639 slippery slope for me to equate autism 01:40:07.639 --> 01:40:11.760 neurotypical non- neurotypical 01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:14.760 colonialism 01:40:17.080 --> 01:40:22.520 um this interesting to me but I I'm it 01:40:22.520 --> 01:40:24.599 like I want I would I would like him to 01:40:24.599 --> 01:40:27.719 slow down like these are kind 01:40:27.719 --> 01:40:31.760 of yeah 01:40:35.440 --> 01:40:39.040 um I think 01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:44.239 that I think that the envir you know the 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:47.960 the the the cultural environment and the 01:40:47.960 --> 01:40:51.920 physical environment is distorting 01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:55.080 you know it's changing people's nervous 01:40:55.080 --> 01:40:56.560 system and their 01:40:56.560 --> 01:41:00.320 brains um I don't think we 01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:04.719 can just say well that's good to think 01:41:04.719 --> 01:41:07.159 it's not good it's just colonialism you 01:41:07.159 --> 01:41:09.880 know what I mean it's it's a little he's 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:12.679 a little too sweeping but he's also a 01:41:12.679 --> 01:41:17.000 poet he's not really meant to be 01:41:17.040 --> 01:41:21.760 read with this kind of lens that that 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:25.520 handy cuffs handcuffs him to literal 01:41:25.520 --> 01:41:29.000 literality So my answer to that is why 01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:30.880 don't you bring you know my answer was 01:41:30.880 --> 01:41:32.520 why don't you bring them down to work 01:41:32.520 --> 01:41:33.400 with the 01:41:33.400 --> 01:41:35.719 horses uh there's a lot 01:41:35.719 --> 01:41:39.000 of uh literature on horses working with 01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:43.239 autistic people I've worked with ADHD 01:41:43.239 --> 01:41:46.560 young people like pretty per bad you 01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:49.239 know pretty severe um but I haven't 01:41:49.239 --> 01:41:52.090 worked with an autistic person 01:41:52.090 --> 01:41:53.760 [Music] 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:56.960 um so I think something like that could 01:41:56.960 --> 01:41:59.679 help open the 01:41:59.679 --> 01:42:05.119 expiration um but that being said if the 01:42:05.119 --> 01:42:08.159 the generations are going through an 01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:10.080 environment 01:42:10.080 --> 01:42:14.360 that's changing our brains then then we 01:42:14.360 --> 01:42:16.760 have to 01:42:16.760 --> 01:42:20.119 embrace those changes I mean we are We 01:42:20.119 --> 01:42:22.520 Are Who We Are 01:42:22.520 --> 01:42:25.880 are um if we have nuclear war and 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:28.840 everybody has like tumors and radiation 01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:32.340 sickness and that's who we become we 01:42:32.340 --> 01:42:35.239 [Music] 01:42:35.239 --> 01:42:39.560 become what we interact with 01:42:40.599 --> 01:42:43.599 so 01:42:45.679 --> 01:42:49.040 yeah so you know I'm I'm 01:42:49.040 --> 01:42:52.159 still this is a a very beautiful 01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:54.400 exploration and I'm and 01:42:54.400 --> 01:42:57.880 I'm and you know I'm not sure where I 01:42:57.880 --> 01:43:01.080 overlap and where I disagree or 01:43:01.080 --> 01:43:03.400 something you know I don't I don't think 01:43:03.400 --> 01:43:06.360 it's great that people are you know 01:43:06.360 --> 01:43:08.840 pretty soon 70% of the population will 01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:12.159 be obese and have diabetes I don't I 01:43:12.159 --> 01:43:13.960 don't think that's good I don't think 01:43:13.960 --> 01:43:15.320 that you can just say well to say it's 01:43:15.320 --> 01:43:19.679 not good is just colonizing I just I 01:43:19.679 --> 01:43:21.280 just 01:43:21.280 --> 01:43:24.080 no if that's what it is that's it is 01:43:24.080 --> 01:43:26.159 that's who we are now but so I'm not 01:43:26.159 --> 01:43:28.280 saying to blame people I'm saying we 01:43:28.280 --> 01:43:33.800 actually can't blame people um but I 01:43:33.880 --> 01:43:38.360 think one of my favorite examples of 01:43:38.360 --> 01:43:41.840 that is December 01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:43.400 23rd 01:43:43.400 --> 01:43:46.599 1973 hundreds of thousands of persons 01:43:46.599 --> 01:43:48.840 were declared 01:43:48.840 --> 01:43:51.239 cured when 01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:54.199 the American Psychiatric association 01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:58.719 took homosexuality off the 01:44:03.280 --> 01:44:06.760 DSM yeah but I don't think this is a a 01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:10.320 similar situation 01:44:10.320 --> 01:44:12.760 because 01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:15.760 homosexuality uh PE people related to 01:44:15.760 --> 01:44:18.199 homosexuality like it was a 01:44:18.199 --> 01:44:20.719 novel neuroatypical 01:44:20.719 --> 01:44:22.480 thing that happened 01:44:22.480 --> 01:44:25.440 recently homosexuality has been 01:44:25.440 --> 01:44:27.880 practiced by cultures Forever 01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:31.360 Until American Catholic protestantism 01:44:31.360 --> 01:44:35.280 declared it a sin I mean it's not like 01:44:35.280 --> 01:44:38.119 and that was the mistake people thought 01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:40.639 oh the culture is getting so you know 01:44:40.639 --> 01:44:43.440 perverse and this and that but it was 01:44:43.440 --> 01:44:46.040 only much more recently that it became a 01:44:46.040 --> 01:44:48.880 problem than the fact that it was 01:44:48.880 --> 01:44:51.159 happening right so 01:44:51.159 --> 01:44:54.320 so we're talking about autism is very 01:44:54.320 --> 01:44:55.520 very 01:44:55.520 --> 01:44:59.080 recent truly a recent 01:44:59.080 --> 01:45:02.040 phenomenon uh ADHD we don't know but 01:45:02.040 --> 01:45:05.159 ADHD is something that could be more 01:45:05.159 --> 01:45:08.520 structural um but we don't know whereas 01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:11.119 homosexuality was not a 01:45:11.119 --> 01:45:15.480 recent cultural emergence it it was the 01:45:15.480 --> 01:45:17.920 fact that people thought homosexuality 01:45:17.920 --> 01:45:21.560 was weird was actually a recent 01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:26.599 invention a novel invention by Western 01:45:26.840 --> 01:45:31.440 Catholics abortion is not a new fad 01:45:31.440 --> 01:45:34.920 people have been infanti infanto what is 01:45:34.920 --> 01:45:36.960 it called infanticide has been around in 01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:38.320 cultures 01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:41.280 forever so this is this 01:45:41.280 --> 01:45:43.880 is you know what you see what I'm saying 01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:46.880 there're these things are not new autism 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:50.599 I believe is quite or the or the the the 01:45:50.599 --> 01:45:52.920 incidence of obesity the incidence of 01:45:52.920 --> 01:45:57.760 diabetes the incidence of autism is 01:45:58.040 --> 01:46:01.639 new it's something 01:46:01.639 --> 01:46:05.400 new it just just is it's not something 01:46:05.400 --> 01:46:08.119 we pretended wasn't in the human system 01:46:08.119 --> 01:46:10.719 for a long time and 01:46:10.719 --> 01:46:16.239 now uh we're changing our minds about 01:46:19.280 --> 01:46:23.440 it yeah I can say I've 01:46:23.440 --> 01:46:27.239 um you know dug deep into it but I've I 01:46:27.239 --> 01:46:30.000 don't know because of the monetization 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:32.960 of any kind of division whether it's 01:46:32.960 --> 01:46:37.520 along gender class race lines you know 01:46:37.520 --> 01:46:40.400 it's it's just automatic because of the 01:46:40.400 --> 01:46:43.119 click and bait I mean it's not even like 01:46:43.119 --> 01:46:47.440 an ideological war it's just talk about 01:46:47.440 --> 01:46:49.239 aggregor 01:46:49.239 --> 01:46:53.480 um and and so I found that this notion 01:46:53.480 --> 01:46:56.880 of neurot typicality as a 01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:01.679 systemic way of designating a 01:47:01.679 --> 01:47:04.920 mechanism that 01:47:05.360 --> 01:47:09.840 says this is good that's bad or in 01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:16.199 degrees um might be a way to not fall 01:47:16.199 --> 01:47:18.480 into the 01:47:18.480 --> 01:47:22.320 polarizations that are so 01:47:22.599 --> 01:47:27.000 exploited so easily in this agregan kind 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:30.360 of way that just pches like 01:47:30.360 --> 01:47:34.040 toire I'm going to post in the in in the 01:47:34.040 --> 01:47:38.280 popup School an absolutely mindboggling 01:47:38.280 --> 01:47:40.480 performance of Kevin 01:47:40.480 --> 01:47:46.239 spacy of um a piece from Shakespeare's 01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:50.400 um tus I think it's the name and and and 01:47:50.400 --> 01:47:53.800 it's like Shakespeare and cancel culture 01:47:53.800 --> 01:47:56.239 and I mean the man's been exonerated out 01:47:56.239 --> 01:47:59.360 of absolutely every 01:47:59.360 --> 01:48:01.280 accusation every 01:48:01.280 --> 01:48:05.679 trial um declared innocent and yet you 01:48:05.679 --> 01:48:08.560 know this is the first time she's really 01:48:08.560 --> 01:48:12.960 invited to to to to to be present with 01:48:12.960 --> 01:48:17.480 what he has to offer and it's really 01:48:17.480 --> 01:48:19.760 really I had to watch it like three or 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:22.920 four times it was so powerful I'll post 01:48:22.920 --> 01:48:26.920 it um but I I would like if you haven't 01:48:26.920 --> 01:48:29.719 heard of him 01:48:29.719 --> 01:48:33.320 f um because this is you know he started 01:48:33.320 --> 01:48:37.159 right after second world war um I I'll 01:48:37.159 --> 01:48:40.440 post something right now on him because 01:48:40.440 --> 01:48:42.320 I I don't know I just have this 01:48:42.320 --> 01:48:44.239 intuition that you're going to see 01:48:44.239 --> 01:48:49.360 something there that um connects with 01:48:49.360 --> 01:48:51.000 some of the work you're 01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:54.480 doing there's not a lot translated 01:48:54.480 --> 01:48:58.080 unfortunately but I think you'll get a 01:48:58.080 --> 01:48:59.920 sense 01:48:59.920 --> 01:49:01.440 of 01:49:01.440 --> 01:49:04.760 um because nobody was working with 01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.639 autism you know 01:49:07.639 --> 01:49:10.960 1962 and he spent 30 01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:12.480 years 01:49:12.480 --> 01:49:18.199 with so-called autistic kids um without 01:49:18.199 --> 01:49:22.119 any of this institutional 01:49:22.560 --> 01:49:25.880 um yeah I I think there's something and 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:28.599 I think you can probably pick something 01:49:28.599 --> 01:49:30.560 from this 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:34.560 that um I I don't 01:49:34.560 --> 01:49:38.080 have it's not what I 01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.400 do I'm 01:49:47.960 --> 01:49:52.119 here I have something to say 01:49:52.840 --> 01:49:55.679 say oh my God was that the same thing 01:49:55.679 --> 01:49:58.840 you were working on the other day yep oh 01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:01.159 my God got little 01:50:01.159 --> 01:50:04.520 ears and uh it's 01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:07.520 done that was fast I 01:50:07.520 --> 01:50:10.400 mean well well it's not fast because you 01:50:10.400 --> 01:50:12.639 had you were working forever to se it 01:50:12.639 --> 01:50:15.480 together it was intense because I 01:50:15.480 --> 01:50:18.320 whatever but anyways I finished the baby 01:50:18.320 --> 01:50:22.040 hasn't come yet but 01:50:23.960 --> 01:50:25.470 that's so 01:50:25.470 --> 01:50:27.360 [Music] 01:50:27.360 --> 01:50:31.199 cute that would fit my 01:50:37.639 --> 01:50:42.040 dog my hood was way out of proportion 01:50:42.040 --> 01:50:45.760 because it's a seed Stitch yeah and I 01:50:45.760 --> 01:50:47.719 get I get kind of loose in the seed 01:50:47.719 --> 01:50:52.040 Stitch Department yeah 01:50:53.599 --> 01:50:57.320 anyways they liked it that's all that 01:50:57.320 --> 01:50:59.639 matters how when's the due date pretty 01:50:59.639 --> 01:51:02.079 soon right tomorrow 01:51:02.079 --> 01:51:05.239 tomorrow yeah oh so right on time look 01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:08.520 at that 01:51:08.599 --> 01:51:11.520 yep yep I just realized you could use 01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:15.760 these to knit well there you 01:51:16.079 --> 01:51:18.920 go I always can you hear that my mother 01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:22.880 used to KN I just that that noise it's 01:51:22.880 --> 01:51:24.760 very comforting you would watch TV and 01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:27.040 she'd be 01:51:27.040 --> 01:51:30.040 like 01:51:31.239 --> 01:51:33.639 yeah it's a funny thing because I 01:51:33.639 --> 01:51:36.520 thought it would be kind of a 01:51:36.520 --> 01:51:40.040 mellow exercise kind of like put me in 01:51:40.040 --> 01:51:42.480 kind of an open space but it's actually 01:51:42.480 --> 01:51:45.400 a very linear exercise yeah and I 01:51:45.400 --> 01:51:48.159 noticed that it it keeps me especially 01:51:48.159 --> 01:51:49.639 if I have a pattern that I'm trying to 01:51:49.639 --> 01:51:50.599 follow 01:51:50.599 --> 01:51:53.520 kind of keeps me in a focused place and 01:51:53.520 --> 01:51:58.960 not a more diffused place so uh I it's a 01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:01.400 it's a real 01:52:01.400 --> 01:52:05.360 um gift of time to that kind of purpose 01:52:05.360 --> 01:52:08.000 yeah that's a discipline it's a 01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:09.159 discipline 01:52:09.159 --> 01:52:11.480 yeah I don't know how much more knitting 01:52:11.480 --> 01:52:14.119 I'm gonna do but it was really helpful 01:52:14.119 --> 01:52:15.520 to listen to 01:52:15.520 --> 01:52:18.400 matalina and to do this because I had to 01:52:18.400 --> 01:52:20.520 redo the binding because I made it too 01:52:20.520 --> 01:52:23.679 tight and because if if the conversation 01:52:23.679 --> 01:52:25.960 gets outside of what I can really fully 01:52:25.960 --> 01:52:30.280 get yeah it gave me something to okay 01:52:30.280 --> 01:52:33.119 I'm doing something that I understand 01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:35.440 here yeah and it's like it's like when 01:52:35.440 --> 01:52:37.880 you're a kids and there's conversation 01:52:37.880 --> 01:52:40.280 that you don't understand but the the 01:52:40.280 --> 01:52:43.119 lyrical right the the there's something 01:52:43.119 --> 01:52:45.599 about 01:52:45.599 --> 01:52:49.079 hearing the adults laughing and then Qui 01:52:49.079 --> 01:52:50.760 you know there's something about it that 01:52:50.760 --> 01:52:53.199 still is a transmission I would say that 01:52:53.199 --> 01:52:55.119 was Kimberly was saying there's 01:52:55.119 --> 01:52:59.520 something very social about it um and in 01:52:59.520 --> 01:53:02.920 fact uh we had this Workshop here a 01:53:02.920 --> 01:53:06.880 couple of the end of last month and you 01:53:06.880 --> 01:53:08.599 know I was really tired we worked really 01:53:08.599 --> 01:53:10.040 hard to clean up the place get the 01:53:10.040 --> 01:53:11.679 horses ready and then we had all these 01:53:11.679 --> 01:53:15.400 people here and at lunch you know I just 01:53:15.400 --> 01:53:17.560 kind of like spaced out and there was 01:53:17.560 --> 01:53:19.440 all these people here and there was all 01:53:19.440 --> 01:53:21.920 these conversations happening and it was 01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:24.960 fun just to space out and 01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:27.760 just 01:53:27.760 --> 01:53:32.280 experience the life that was there and 01:53:32.280 --> 01:53:35.239 literally I was so brain de I had 01:53:35.239 --> 01:53:38.320 no ability to enter a convers you know I 01:53:38.320 --> 01:53:41.000 could see oh there's Zach and stuff's 01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:43.000 happening over there and but I didn't 01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:44.159 have 01:53:44.159 --> 01:53:47.960 any impulse to figure out what was 01:53:47.960 --> 01:53:51.760 happening you know um 01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:07.199 plus everybody was a lot younger than me 01:54:07.199 --> 01:54:08.960 and I was 01:54:08.960 --> 01:54:10.740 like I like the 01:54:10.740 --> 01:54:13.819 [Music] 01:54:18.679 --> 01:54:20.760 grandma 01:54:20.760 --> 01:54:22.920 that's why I usually invite Sandra to 01:54:22.920 --> 01:54:25.320 these things and it's 01:54:25.320 --> 01:54:31.280 like have to be only 01:54:34.719 --> 01:54:37.719 Elder me and David will hold down the 01:54:37.719 --> 01:54:42.560 Elder seat yeah well we're not good at 01:54:42.560 --> 01:54:45.119 it I'll tell okay I'll tell a joke 01:54:45.119 --> 01:54:46.520 you're not old 01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:49.800 enough no but let me tell the story we 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:51.639 were in this Parallax course right on 01:54:51.639 --> 01:54:53.400 the convivial 01:54:53.400 --> 01:54:56.440 society and in one of the campfires we 01:54:56.440 --> 01:54:59.560 had this young guy in his wife who were 01:54:59.560 --> 01:55:02.960 very intelligent had a lot of energy had 01:55:02.960 --> 01:55:05.480 a lot of things to 01:55:05.480 --> 01:55:08.360 say and they were they 01:55:08.360 --> 01:55:11.960 were talkers like they could talk for 20 01:55:11.960 --> 01:55:14.880 25 minutes on and on and on and not 01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:17.000 realize 01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:20.920 that they they weren't talking to anyone 01:55:20.920 --> 01:55:22.840 like 01:55:22.840 --> 01:55:26.280 um and and they were like they were like 01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.159 the Smothers Brothers because when he'd 01:55:28.159 --> 01:55:31.000 get tired as soon as he'd get like have 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:34.199 a little break she'd start you know and 01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:37.719 then he'd get real energize so 01:55:37.719 --> 01:55:41.760 so um so the David and Sandra and I run 01:55:41.760 --> 01:55:46.199 that call and after that he got finished 01:55:46.199 --> 01:55:50.920 at one point he's he's finished and then 01:55:50.920 --> 01:55:53.440 David and Sandra I think it was first 01:55:53.440 --> 01:55:56.199 David maybe or first Sandra they both 01:55:56.199 --> 01:55:58.239 did their thing you know when David does 01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:00.440 something and he like really touches Bas 01:56:00.440 --> 01:56:01.840 with someone and the tone of the 01:56:01.840 --> 01:56:03.840 conversation changes the way Phoebe did 01:56:03.840 --> 01:56:05.400 it last 01:56:05.400 --> 01:56:08.480 time and then Sandra said one of the 01:56:08.480 --> 01:56:12.840 things like one of her things that like 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:14.840 really 01:56:14.840 --> 01:56:17.639 lands and the energy came up in this 01:56:17.639 --> 01:56:19.000 young guy and he's like blah blah blah 01:56:19.000 --> 01:56:20.320 blah blah blah you know we don't have 01:56:20.320 --> 01:56:22.119 any Elders we don't have any 01:56:22.119 --> 01:56:25.360 Elders it just went on and on and on 01:56:25.360 --> 01:56:28.840 it's like like they did this this this 01:56:28.840 --> 01:56:30.679 huge like love 01:56:30.679 --> 01:56:33.719 bomb insightful Elder thing and then 01:56:33.719 --> 01:56:36.000 then as soon as they started going on he 01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:37.840 just complained that there was no Elders 01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:40.760 in society anymore so the next time he 01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:42.920 wasn't there and we we were all trying 01:56:42.920 --> 01:56:43.840 to 01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:48.040 deconstruct uh why we were such 01:56:48.040 --> 01:56:50.880 failures at show showing off as showing 01:56:50.880 --> 01:56:54.760 up as Elders it was extremely uh obvious 01:56:54.760 --> 01:56:56.920 that we had 01:56:56.920 --> 01:56:59.920 failed 01:57:08.800 --> 01:57:13.040 yeah yeah I really wanted to know what 01:57:13.040 --> 01:57:18.440 like what's an elder for him you know 01:57:18.440 --> 01:57:22.679 it's like it's very curious I don't know 01:57:22.679 --> 01:57:25.000 I it's it's I know that most people 01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:27.639 don't think they they eliminate from 01:57:27.639 --> 01:57:30.760 that category white 01:57:30.760 --> 01:57:34.840 people um so they often think Elders are 01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:37.040 like dressed in indigenous clothes and 01:57:37.040 --> 01:57:41.239 have lots of like dark skin and Crags on 01:57:41.239 --> 01:57:42.280 their 01:57:42.280 --> 01:57:44.800 faces 01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:49.239 um uh because one time I went on Twitter 01:57:49.239 --> 01:57:51.400 and people were like we don't have any 01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:53.400 elders and I named a bunch of women that 01:57:53.400 --> 01:57:54.960 I thought were elders and they're like 01:57:54.960 --> 01:57:56.920 they're all white you know like all 01:57:56.920 --> 01:57:59.159 right whatever it I guess white 01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:01.320 people can't be 01:58:01.320 --> 01:58:05.119 Elders I get it so that could have been 01:58:05.119 --> 01:58:07.560 you know and I mean white people were 01:58:07.560 --> 01:58:09.400 saying that white people can't be Elders 01:58:09.400 --> 01:58:11.400 so I think that might have been part of 01:58:11.400 --> 01:58:13.520 the 01:58:16.320 --> 01:58:21.320 reason I'll for Success next time 01:58:23.400 --> 01:58:26.280 time I mean Elder means you're going to 01:58:26.280 --> 01:58:28.800 die and you know 01:58:28.800 --> 01:58:33.400 it what's to argue about that I mean 01:58:33.400 --> 01:58:36.040 like eldership you know Elders eldership 01:58:36.040 --> 01:58:38.400 the role of the Elder in 01:58:38.400 --> 01:58:40.560 society you you don't even have to be 01:58:40.560 --> 01:58:43.199 old to be I don't know I don't know what 01:58:43.199 --> 01:58:45.199 they were talking about I thought I it 01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:48.599 was just odd that after these two people 01:58:48.599 --> 01:58:51.599 who like know how to I mean they're not 01:58:51.599 --> 01:58:54.760 performing and and and usually people 01:58:54.760 --> 01:58:56.920 get it was followed by a diet trab that 01:58:56.920 --> 01:58:59.280 there was no El Elders in 01:58:59.280 --> 01:59:01.840 society I just thought well I can 01:59:01.840 --> 01:59:03.960 understand that we've become sort of 01:59:03.960 --> 01:59:08.440 death phobic and aging puic and I mean I 01:59:08.440 --> 01:59:11.440 sort of shock people by saying you know 01:59:11.440 --> 01:59:12.960 this is what I'm doing now is 01:59:12.960 --> 01:59:14.920 apprenticing to become an 01:59:14.920 --> 01:59:19.079 elder um and and it's not easy in in the 01:59:19.079 --> 01:59:22.440 way because it's like oh okay the 60s 01:59:22.440 --> 01:59:25.599 then new 50 and 7s then you whatever and 01:59:25.599 --> 01:59:31.320 I'm like no I want the age I am okay you 01:59:31.320 --> 01:59:35.400 know but I'm not interested in these you 01:59:35.400 --> 01:59:37.040 know 01:59:37.040 --> 01:59:40.599 substitutions um but it's it's not easy 01:59:40.599 --> 01:59:42.560 to do it maybe that's what they were 01:59:42.560 --> 01:59:43.639 talking 01:59:43.639 --> 01:59:45.960 about that's not the point the point was 01:59:45.960 --> 01:59:49.400 that David and Sandra were exemplary 01:59:49.400 --> 01:59:50.920 just moments 01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:54.320 before and then then he ends up and we 01:59:54.320 --> 01:59:57.440 were just laughing at ourselves because 01:59:57.440 --> 02:00:01.239 like okay well we must not be showing up 02:00:01.239 --> 02:00:06.320 and I don't know anyways um so we had 02:00:06.320 --> 02:00:09.159 like another rambling conversation today 02:00:09.159 --> 02:00:13.679 um but hopefully it was useful um and uh 02:00:13.679 --> 02:00:15.960 we'll be back on 02:00:15.960 --> 02:00:20.400 Saturday and um maybe I'll try 02:00:20.400 --> 02:00:23.320 to I'll be back in my other office and 02:00:23.320 --> 02:00:27.880 I'll share some maybe some more content 02:00:27.880 --> 02:00:30.440 um is Saturday the last one no because 02:00:30.440 --> 02:00:33.079 then we have another Thursday so we can 02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:35.199 ramble on next 02:00:35.199 --> 02:00:38.079 Thursday um if that's what we need to do 02:00:38.079 --> 02:00:40.440 thank you very much 02:00:40.440 --> 02:00:45.040 all um for helping Phoebe 02:00:45.040 --> 02:00:49.199 finish her knitting it was a good job we 02:00:49.199 --> 02:00:51.920 we held the space for her to cross the 02:00:51.920 --> 02:00:56.280 finish line so I feel like that's 02:00:59.560 --> 02:01:02.560 success ## Cohort 4 00:00:08.639 --> 00:00:13.040 okay can you hear me is it too 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:17.119 loud yeah I have a new setup here so is 00:00:17.119 --> 00:00:21.760 that better little better 00:00:22.119 --> 00:00:26.240 okay all righty all 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.400 righty here we are 00:00:31.400 --> 00:00:34.040 are we ready to talk about Igor today or 00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:37.239 do we want to talk about something 00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:45.280 else let's Melina is she's raring to 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:50.199 go okay I I I'm I'm gonna leave it at 00:00:50.199 --> 00:00:53.399 that but I've just got to say your 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.840 conversation with 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:01.359 Alexander I'm still high on it I mean 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:05.159 it's so crazy because I feel like that 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:06.840 conversation was already happening 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.080 inside my head like big time I I think 00:01:10.080 --> 00:01:13.119 you remember we were in the conviviality 00:01:13.119 --> 00:01:16.200 thing and I said Andrew you've got to 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:20.920 get these two on the same you know 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:22.600 conversation 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:26.400 and it it it just I I haven't finished 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.560 because I've gone so slow you know I'm 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:31.439 I'm going 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.360 through you know not even step by step 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:38.840 it's like this cognitive co-evolution as 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.920 an experience okay because it is the two 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.799 of you being these 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.719 um you know I 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.719 think 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.119 um it I feel like I'm receiving messages 00:01:56.119 --> 00:01:58.560 from the future from both of you you 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:02.000 know in in this crazy way and i' I've 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.640 honestly never seen Alexander so 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.479 rigorous because of you okay because he 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:11.560 goes off on these 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:16.560 provocative tangents just to like 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.519 provoke but he has no need to do that 00:02:20.519 --> 00:02:24.160 with you and that is just so exciting 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:25.959 because then he's at his 00:02:25.959 --> 00:02:31.040 best but you're keeping him you know 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:34.560 just in this Rhythm you know it's like 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.080 there's this Rhythm and it's 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:41.200 so exciting I mean and and nobody has 00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:45.879 ever really engaged this way with 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.680 somebody who has spent a fair amount of 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:52.920 time trying to dig into this melian age 00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:57.200 if I want to use Pascal's you know you 00:02:57.200 --> 00:03:00.400 know sort of paradigmatic 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.200 designation and I'm I'm just so grateful 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:07.840 I mean this like really had to happen 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.760 and it had to cross the ocean it 00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:14.239 just really had to happen and I think 00:03:14.239 --> 00:03:17.760 it's such a crucial moment and I felt 00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:21.159 like you what you came through of course 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.720 I'm informed by all the work we've been 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:29.400 doing um that my listening is is not 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.120 quite as illiterate as as it would have 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:33.439 been 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:37.439 otherwise but seriously I mean and it's 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.599 the whole thing I mean which includes 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:43.439 the performance you know which I think 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.439 is crucial right now because we are in 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.640 the melian age and we're not just in the 00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:53.400 Gutenberg realm it has to have this 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.319 Dynamic you know instability that you 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:58.840 don't know what's going to happen 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:00.400 whether you're going to start yelling at 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.239 each other or whether you know and yet 00:04:04.239 --> 00:04:08.319 you navigated it with such 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:12.480 elegant I mean it's just you know you 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:16.959 know hats off really banina I'm just 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:21.160 beside myself I'm so excited thank you 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:24.919 did anybody else see that yet 00:04:24.919 --> 00:04:28.919 no we had that one I had the perspectiva 00:04:28.919 --> 00:04:31.720 presentation and tempor that was pretty 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:37.000 good um yeah it was good right um oh it 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.400 was amazing but this was so Dynamic you 00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:43.639 know it's like because people don't 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.840 really I haven't seen you in dialogue 00:04:46.840 --> 00:04:50.080 where there's an engagement that goes 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:53.400 out that just goes out in the wilderness 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:57.360 that goes out in in in the wildness you 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.440 know quite that way I mean either 00:05:00.440 --> 00:05:03.600 they're intimidated by you or something 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:07.960 or they just skirt around it but this 00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:09.919 was a 00:05:09.919 --> 00:05:13.440 dance loved it I don't know how you feel 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:16.240 about it but I'd be very curious how you 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.479 feel about it no it was great I I didn't 00:05:18.479 --> 00:05:20.759 watch the recording and I don't know if 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:22.720 they let it in they did they leave in 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.520 that part where I had to go and sign for 00:05:24.520 --> 00:05:26.720 a 00:05:27.039 --> 00:05:29.319 delivery I I think that's right at the 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:33.280 end end or or may it's toward the middle 00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:35.639 but I yeah no you had to walk away and 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.639 and in that moment um uh Alexander says 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.319 to Andrew we're we're we're right in it 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.520 we're right in it this is a great start 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:49.479 you know I mean honestly he he really 00:05:49.479 --> 00:05:53.639 just totally engaged and I'm so excited 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.680 because I think this is the kind 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.960 of uh symbiotic and an agonism that I 00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:04.720 feel needs to be happening you know 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.120 whether you want to call it ritual 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.840 descent or whatever for there to be for 00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:14.599 it to come alive so it's not this you 00:06:14.599 --> 00:06:19.000 know just verbera you know of of 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:23.039 philosophy no the stakes are high you 00:06:23.039 --> 00:06:26.039 know and and and it's full 00:06:26.039 --> 00:06:29.199 on sorry I'm really no no no yeah I'm 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.759 glad you said that there's a lot 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.520 happening like part of it part of what's 00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:35.199 happening is 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:36.759 this 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:42.400 uh um push of mind to to develop the 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:45.840 popup school to you know to what did I 00:06:45.840 --> 00:06:47.280 write I don't even remember what I wrote 00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:50.360 what did I write 2024 is the year what 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:51.440 did I 00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:55.360 write that we break out 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.400 um and 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.400 um 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.520 I'm just gonna put in the chat okay 00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:08.080 because I just put 00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:11.840 um yeah I'm not gonna say okay so 00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:13.879 there's a lot going on go I'm really 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.000 loud right because I can hear myself is 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.919 no can I hear myself I have this weird 00:07:18.919 --> 00:07:24.120 microphone so if I'm okay that's okay um 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:26.319 so part of what's happening is this like 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.240 breaking out and um 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.919 also 00:07:31.919 --> 00:07:35.479 wanting um people to know that if you're 00:07:35.479 --> 00:07:37.800 basically the big premium is for yearly 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.479 paid subscribers because if you're 00:07:39.479 --> 00:07:41.280 yearly paid 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:43.319 subscribers I mean in this case the 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.000 Alexander Bard thing was completely free 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.599 but like everything I do will come in as 00:07:49.599 --> 00:07:53.039 a recorded at least a recorded version 00:07:53.039 --> 00:07:54.759 um and so I'm trying 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.800 to um go out and add value in you know 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.280 go out and add value in in in a certain 00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:05.319 way and I have other initiatives too um 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:07.400 that people are proposing to me but it's 00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:09.919 for me it's always like well how can 00:08:09.919 --> 00:08:14.199 this how can this benefit yearly paid 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:16.280 subscribers I mean that's kind of my 00:08:16.280 --> 00:08:18.840 target audience 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:21.479 um but and we're planning to do there's 00:08:21.479 --> 00:08:24.360 going to be another uh one with that 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.199 what that that one was supposed to be 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.120 with also Alexander elen um but he broke 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.519 his leg and it's kind of good because we 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.240 had able to establish more back 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.240 background and then we're gonna have one 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:39.519 more with him and then we're gonna have 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:41.880 a series next year which will be part of 00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:45.200 like what the what we bring in to the 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.560 school um and you know it is a kind of 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:52.720 dance it's a kind of dance of allowing 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:54.519 these hyper creative people to be 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.839 creative but how many times did I say 00:08:56.839 --> 00:08:59.839 I'm gon to ask you a question I'm gonna 00:08:59.839 --> 00:09:02.959 ask you a question at the end of this uh 00:09:02.959 --> 00:09:05.279 Alexander because they get into this 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.000 like they just they're just explosions 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.839 of creative like blah blah 00:09:11.839 --> 00:09:14.519 blah and 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:17.480 um so that's that's part of it with them 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:19.200 there's other initiatives like that yeah 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.800 David are 00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:25.440 you um do you want to say something yeah 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.640 I do want to say something and I'm 00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:30.600 having this strange kind of like outof 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.600 Body Experience between Holly and Kevin 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:37.839 they're with this kind of I can't tell 00:09:37.839 --> 00:09:41.160 which dimension who's in and what's 00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:44.480 going across and the reason I bring this 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.880 up that drawing you can tell right 00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:49.959 because of the it's be listen it's 00:09:49.959 --> 00:09:53.600 because you are one of those hyper 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.480 creatives that that um movie 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.920 presentation you put together did the 00:10:00.920 --> 00:10:03.320 same kind of thing Holly and Kevin are 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.040 doing to me it moved me through 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:09.480 different dimensions and it wasn't what 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.000 was the word matalena just you 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.920 used 00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:18.399 verata no verbera verbera it wasn't 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.079 verbera it was this it was this you know 00:10:22.079 --> 00:10:26.200 body out of body inbody in time out okay 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:27.640 I G to ask you a question and put you on 00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:31.320 the spot did the word words 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.839 matter not really right with like we're 00:10:34.839 --> 00:10:38.279 not at the point me Alexander barter not 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:40.399 at the point where the words matter oh 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.720 no I'm talking about the uh the movies 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.920 you did for oh with perspectiva yeah 00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:48.760 sorry those 00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:53.160 words yeah did matter and didn't 00:10:53.160 --> 00:10:55.920 matter because what came back to me was 00:10:55.920 --> 00:10:58.800 the prompt How does the structure of 00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:01.839 time time change and the problem I had 00:11:01.839 --> 00:11:06.480 is I kind of move slow in sensing so 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.120 there wasn't much time between movies to 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.519 sense Beyond just the obvious for me I 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.639 knew there was more there but um my 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.079 point is you're one of the hyper 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:25.200 creatives thank you for the work you 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:29.079 do I think the words matter like a 00:11:29.079 --> 00:11:33.839 specify one moment for me that was key I 00:11:33.839 --> 00:11:36.839 mean like to me it was a moment of this 00:11:36.839 --> 00:11:38.040 be the last comment because I don't 00:11:38.040 --> 00:11:40.079 think other people saw it you okay it 00:11:40.079 --> 00:11:41.639 was a moment of 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.320 metamorphosis I mean literally like 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:49.600 before my eyes when you took 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:54.000 methos into lyrical oh oh my you see it 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.160 fixed because it fixed this 00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:00.399 confusion yes it wasn't challenge so 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.320 this I'm glad you saw that because this 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.959 is a big deal he's he's gonna change his 00:12:05.959 --> 00:12:08.760 masculine or patriarchal blah 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:12.000 blah blah blah and he's gonna say the 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.959 Mythos is not Mythos it's 00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.959 lyrical and so it's a big deal for us 00:12:17.959 --> 00:12:19.880 because we're gonna be going on next 00:12:19.880 --> 00:12:22.519 year and talk about creating lyrical 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.839 culture right yeah oh my God that was so 00:12:25.839 --> 00:12:28.040 but it didn't threaten him it was much 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:29.519 better uh 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.920 helped him understand what he was saying 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:34.680 see I mean I've been listening to or or 00:12:34.680 --> 00:12:36.199 following I mean I've talked to 00:12:36.199 --> 00:12:40.760 Alexander personally whatever um because 00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:43.760 he really has this extraordinarily 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.600 Generous Heart he really does I mean he 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:49.760 can sound like an and insult 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:53.120 people and whatever but underneath 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.600 there's just extraordinary generosity 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.399 yeah and and and that's what you 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.240 connected with and that that that's what 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.240 was so beautiful because it was a worthy 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.639 interloc yeah seriously so the point 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.920 here for the rest of the people is we 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:17.320 have Alexander who's in this you 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.720 know you know everybody's got their 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:23.720 performance stick but we've enabled to 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.120 slip in this interesting concept of 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.279 lyric philosophy and lyric culture 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.160 as actually what he's actually been 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:37.040 looking for um um and that I think was 00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:41.880 important for our our community and 00:13:41.880 --> 00:13:45.440 um yeah 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.480 so so enough of that for now because can 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.680 you define what you mean by lyric 00:13:51.680 --> 00:13:55.680 philosophy and lyric culture okay so no 00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:57.680 not right now because that's basically 00:13:57.680 --> 00:13:59.399 what we're going to do in the early part 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.240 of 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:06.000 2024 um and um I'll be starting to 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.800 writing a seeds essay series on lyric 00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:12.880 culture um lyric culture is just what 00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:16.720 I'm saying is a kind of a cultural 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.480 scene that is founded on lyric 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:22.759 philosophy and lyric philosophy is 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:27.079 basically uh a word in invented or an 00:14:27.079 --> 00:14:30.399 idea kind of composed by janza 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.880 Wiki um 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:39.680 so uh I'll give one felt sense of it and 00:14:39.680 --> 00:14:41.920 that is it doesn't 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:45.160 isue it's not allergic 00:14:45.160 --> 00:14:47.199 to um 00:14:47.199 --> 00:14:50.199 theoretic philosophy which is you know 00:14:50.199 --> 00:14:53.120 most of the western 00:14:53.880 --> 00:14:56.759 Canon um but it's very interested in 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.959 attending to particulars 00:14:59.959 --> 00:15:03.320 this particular moment this like these 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.680 Chopsticks I happen to 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:09.720 think extremely 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.440 nice because it's just handcarved from 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:14.639 wood so you know you know these these 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.800 noticings are very 00:15:17.959 --> 00:15:20.399 particular so that's part of lyric but 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.519 the word lyric is comes from 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:27.160 musicality and that is if I'm listening 00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:30.639 to a or piece of orchestral 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:34.759 music where is the music is it in the 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:38.160 first note is it in the second note is 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.079 it in the last 00:15:41.839 --> 00:15:45.240 note is it in this transitional period 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.360 between two different kind of Acts in a 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.319 in the music is is it in the Overture 00:15:51.319 --> 00:15:53.560 where is the 00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:56.560 music and so lyric 00:15:56.560 --> 00:16:00.199 philosophy um is like that so if you 00:16:00.199 --> 00:16:02.040 want to know what lyric culture is like 00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:03.920 you've been embedded in it in the popup 00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:06.240 school that's why you can't go home and 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.680 tell people what you 00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:09.920 learned it'd be like trying to tell 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:11.839 people what what what's the music that 00:16:11.839 --> 00:16:14.959 you just heard well is it C minor or F 00:16:14.959 --> 00:16:16.800 major or 00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:20.720 G or an A minor chord or a fifth chord 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:21.959 where's the 00:16:21.959 --> 00:16:24.519 music you come home from the Opera or 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.079 you come home from an orchestra like and 00:16:26.079 --> 00:16:28.199 they say okay what what what did you 00:16:28.199 --> 00:16:29.160 hear 00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:31.199 how could you possibly tell someone 00:16:31.199 --> 00:16:33.079 where where is where is what you've 00:16:33.079 --> 00:16:35.480 heard where is what you've learned and 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:38.399 so lyric has to do 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.040 with but on the other hand after you 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:43.839 hear a symphony you have it 00:16:43.839 --> 00:16:47.519 all you have it 00:16:48.079 --> 00:16:51.399 all but you've never experienced it all 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.880 or is it on the sheet music where is 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:57.440 where is where is it lyric philosophy is 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.720 the same way 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.319 it's like music that hangs 00:17:04.439 --> 00:17:09.039 Together lyric culture would be the same 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:13.799 way it's not it's not its purpose is not 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.679 to come to some kind of conclusion at 00:17:16.679 --> 00:17:18.000 the 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.039 end or if it does the conclusions 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:25.120 doesn't make any sense the conclusions 00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:30.400 don't make any sense without the journey 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.520 there so that's what lyric philosophy is 00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.919 it doesn't matter if it's conceptual or 00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:40.200 poetic I mean Jan Z wikii is a 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.840 conceptual po a conceptual philosopher a 00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:46.240 poet and a musician not surprising that 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.360 she comes up with this term of lyric 00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:52.480 philosophy um so this 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.520 is this is the 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.840 foundational felt sense of lyric 00:18:02.679 --> 00:18:06.919 culture can I give my sense of 00:18:06.919 --> 00:18:10.480 what I might think it might mean from 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.000 what you just 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:19.039 said that was a question oh yeah yeah 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.039 um 00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:26.400 so I did this whole reading of this 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.919 person that I studied 00:18:28.919 --> 00:18:32.000 and I I had the sense 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.600 of getting the sense of his whole 00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:37.320 Symphony that his work was actually a 00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:42.520 symphony and it took a long time to um 00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:45.280 even any one part of it I could feel oh 00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.760 this is part of a symphony but it took a 00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:51.559 long time to be able to hold the whole 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.159 of the 00:18:53.159 --> 00:18:55.960 symphony 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.480 uh without having to break it down down 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.799 into its parts and its meaning it took a 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.080 long time to be able to hold it without 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.520 having to deconstruct it and so all of 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:10.240 the nuts and bolts are the parts of the 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:14.280 symphony are there and necessary and yet 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:17.919 after a certain point there's a an 00:19:17.919 --> 00:19:23.720 experience of the wholeness of uh you 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.600 could even say the posture of it or the 00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:29.120 wholeness of um what it's holding 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:31.000 and 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.080 and what I 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:36.440 think what I would make that mean and I 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.640 obviously don't know is 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:45.559 that to be able to engage in lyric 00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:50.600 philosophy you would have to be able to 00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:57.120 hold the wholeness of something the like 00:19:57.120 --> 00:19:59.039 you say where's the music 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.480 there's a whole gestal that's have many 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.640 many many 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.400 components and um it feels like it's a 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.000 new level of skill and skill sounds like 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:13.360 way too small a 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:18.440 word um you have to have gone through 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.360 the nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts 00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:23.480 and nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts to 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.960 finally uh feel like you 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.159 can um 00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:37.919 trust a larger currency that's moving 00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:42.720 trust your ability to to to to sense it 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.840 and to hold it so I just made that up 00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:48.080 but that's my thought about yeah I mean 00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:49.919 there's some things that sound right and 00:20:49.919 --> 00:20:52.120 then there's things that I'm not 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:55.960 sure what you mean 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.159 because one of the things we have to how 00:20:58.159 --> 00:21:01.159 do you hold the whole the 00:21:01.159 --> 00:21:03.760 gastal um if you hold it through a 00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:05.159 narrative like you have a narrative and 00:21:05.159 --> 00:21:06.840 you connect all these nodes well that's 00:21:06.840 --> 00:21:08.679 not lyric culture that's just another 00:21:08.679 --> 00:21:12.080 strategy through resonance yeah it would 00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:14.679 through resonance to Resonance it yeah 00:21:14.679 --> 00:21:18.799 and when you've gone 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.640 to a show an orchestra show I've gone to 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.320 I used to go to a lot of really complex 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:30.320 Jazz uh shows you come away and there's 00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:32.000 no 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.159 way if you there's a certain is a 00:21:35.159 --> 00:21:38.919 certain eagerness to 00:21:38.919 --> 00:21:41.880 to capture what you just experienced and 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.279 there's no way you can capture it 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.559 especially these these 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.600 improvisational Jazz things we used to 00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:56.360 go to um but your your your self has 00:21:56.360 --> 00:21:59.600 captured it so there's no sense that 00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.320 there's an organ that has to do 00:22:01.320 --> 00:22:04.320 something after the 00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:08.120 fact there's no sense that gee did I 00:22:08.120 --> 00:22:09.480 really learn something because I don't 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.000 know what I learned there's a sense 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.159 that with the right so in in in lyric 00:22:15.159 --> 00:22:18.159 culture we're also going to learn about 00:22:18.159 --> 00:22:21.520 uh a fan of Jan the wik which is Heidi's 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:24.360 Warren Heidi's uh attending as a sacred 00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:27.240 art if you attend in the right way then 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.480 you've captured whole and it won't feel 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.000 like it because it's not a narratology 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.159 that connects the dots it's not a 00:22:35.159 --> 00:22:38.120 philosophical system that connects the 00:22:38.120 --> 00:22:41.200 dots you just have C you've 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.600 just you've captured it through your 00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:46.840 body through the sensing through the 00:22:46.840 --> 00:22:50.279 being attending in a certain way and and 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.480 that that has changed you 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.760 so so yes exactly what you said as long 00:22:55.760 --> 00:22:59.080 as you're not working really hard after 00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:02.000 the fact to capture either through 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.440 narrative or some kind of systemic 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.520 philosophical system what it is that 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:09.919 makes it 00:23:09.919 --> 00:23:14.600 whole because the capture itself is a 00:23:14.600 --> 00:23:17.559 partiality um now having said that we do 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.600 do that then we go and we talk about 00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:21.799 janza Wiki and we make an NRA of I'm not 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:23.440 I'm not saying that that doesn't carry 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.919 forward but your basic experience to it 00:23:26.919 --> 00:23:28.400 is 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.600 it's not that without capturing it it's 00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:33.640 going to somehow evade 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.640 me 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.520 um yeah something like 00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:46.880 that but that's you know that's we're 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.880 talking about culture the origins of 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.559 culture uh we're looking at lyric cultur 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.039 as something going 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.480 forward um and lyric culture has a lot 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:01.480 to do with 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:04.200 acknowledging 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.440 um 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:09.200 that you know when you're composing a 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.000 piece of music for 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.720 someone um you're composing for their 00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.520 ears but you're also 00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:18.120 composing for their imagination and 00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:21.120 their affective resonance with the with 00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:22.000 the 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.559 music um you're 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.600 speaking you're speaking a lot of 00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:29.799 languages at the same time 00:24:34.600 --> 00:24:37.240 time I'm going to throw something else 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.159 in here which was Herby Hancock gave the 00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:41.720 Norton 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.360 lectures um and for some reason those 00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:47.600 were never 00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:50.960 transcribed and I would like to think he 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.000 said they shouldn't be and they always 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.200 print the Lord Norton lectures so that's 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.960 kind of an interesting except 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.520 exception and in there one of the things 00:25:04.520 --> 00:25:07.039 he talks about was the 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:11.039 relationship with technology of jazz 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.640 because Charlie Parker would not travel 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:20.559 without his um record player and and the 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.600 way he studied 00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:27.039 Jazz was by playing the recordings you 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:32.120 know and starts to scramble this whole 00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:36.200 linear kind of Developmental 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.559 you know it just and and what Harvey 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.600 Hancock 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:44.799 was claiming was that jazz was the 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.840 ethics for the 21st century and I think 00:25:47.840 --> 00:25:54.360 that completely aligns with um Yan fiki 00:25:54.360 --> 00:25:57.399 because look at this one this is another 00:25:57.399 --> 00:25:58.840 little 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:03.120 fragment I I I 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:06.200 foraged and I just feel like it's so 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.279 popup schol I mean and you know it's 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.919 practice ceaselessly there's one art 00:26:12.919 --> 00:26:15.960 wind in the Open Spaces grieving 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:20.360 laughing with us saying improvise you 00:26:20.360 --> 00:26:21.720 know I 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.120 mean that's not the verbera that's not 00:26:26.120 --> 00:26:30.880 the Dogma or the godma you know I like 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.520 to be dyslexic about that well the other 00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:39.720 thing the katma gogma katma okay it um 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.640 so the other thing about 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.919 um jazz is if you if you're interested 00:26:45.919 --> 00:26:47.679 in creating a lyric culture you're like 00:26:47.679 --> 00:26:49.039 oh you know how can you create a culture 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.440 out of nothing well the American Jazz 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.480 that whole 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.960 culture um I mean nothing's created out 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.240 of nothing 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.399 but this is an independent culture grown 00:27:01.399 --> 00:27:05.200 homegrown culture in the US in that 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.520 sense they're kind of new indigenous uh 00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:13.960 to the to this to this country um and um 00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.240 so how how how does a 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.200 culture an africanamerican or a black 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:24.240 American culture emerge out of those 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.600 conditions right um and I've always 00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.120 complain that like these black lives 00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:32.159 matters and all these things they don't 00:27:32.159 --> 00:27:35.200 emphasize enough the the emergence the 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.120 singular emergence of a culture 00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:42.720 Independence really of past conditions 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.720 and in in Modern Times And um American 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.640 Jazz and all its 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.960 extensions uh into rap and stuff are are 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.960 um should be studied as an AS 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.320 anthropolog logical you know if you want 00:27:59.320 --> 00:28:01.399 to understand how things 00:28:01.399 --> 00:28:04.240 emerge uh there's hardly 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.279 anything um more interesting in 00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.960 studying some of the Pioneers in that 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.200 movement because you're right they they 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.200 thought about it a lot they knew about 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.919 what they were doing they're extremely 00:28:17.919 --> 00:28:20.559 talented they many of them saw music as 00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:21.519 pure 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.679 abstractions uh the way the way Mozart 00:28:24.679 --> 00:28:28.880 did and they studied Mozart and B 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.679 so 00:28:30.679 --> 00:28:33.480 uh yeah that's a real inspiration if you 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.720 want to start a new a new 00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.399 culture um I had an experience over the 00:28:49.399 --> 00:28:51.200 summer at jazz I don't know if you want 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.080 to hear a story or if you want to do 00:28:53.080 --> 00:28:56.399 some teaching but 00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:59.399 um 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.120 you know that Chopstick dance you just 00:29:02.120 --> 00:29:04.480 did where's the 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.840 music I went to see a jazz performance a 00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:12.039 live jazz performance at an iconic place 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.200 here in Los Angeles the Hollywood Bowl 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.200 and the setup 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.600 was about a dozen 00:29:22.360 --> 00:29:25.159 cellos no about a half dozen cellos 00:29:25.159 --> 00:29:27.600 about a dozen strings in the back of the 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:32.440 stage and the front of the stage was 10 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.360 different piano kind of 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:40.480 instruments that were electronic and 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:45.200 piano and I mean all different kinds of 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:46.640 very 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.000 contemporary 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:55.120 instruments and there was one saxophone 00:29:56.320 --> 00:29:59.320 player 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:02.880 and it was the most 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:07.360 beautiful assemblage of music and Jazz 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.640 I've ever experienced I've spent my 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.799 whole life I used to sneak into bars 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.080 when I was 14 years old here to listen 00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:17.640 to Jazz in Los 00:30:18.679 --> 00:30:21.279 Angeles and I went there thinking I 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.240 can't get into this electronic you 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.640 know I 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:29.240 mean and I'll tell you 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.919 you when I look now and see where was 00:30:32.919 --> 00:30:36.840 that music I can't tell you it is inside 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:40.000 of me and it was a 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.880 Transcendent experience for 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:46.840 me and it was an iconic 00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:52.399 jazz performer Pharaoh Sanders oh my God 00:30:52.399 --> 00:30:54.960 what he did about five years 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:58.440 ago well now seven years ago was he 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.440 hooked up with this electronic 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.679 contemporary group and created 00:31:04.679 --> 00:31:09.279 composed this Symphony and died before 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.799 the first time it was ever performed and 00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:14.919 I got to see it performed by an English 00:31:14.919 --> 00:31:18.840 Sachs player that took his spot it 00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:22.120 was just like what you said with those 00:31:22.120 --> 00:31:24.720 did with those Chopsticks where's the 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.799 music it's inside of me 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.480 Bonnie so in the 80s when I lived in New 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.919 York and we had an artist L we would go 00:31:32.919 --> 00:31:35.799 see phell Sanders at the new school and 00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.200 and then these 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.519 overnight uh things and one time I 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:44.279 brought uh my friend who is 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:48.440 gay um he he started Living with this 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:50.639 German intellectual I think he was a 00:31:50.639 --> 00:31:53.120 medical researcher or something and I 00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:55.360 was like oh let's bring him to see phell 00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:58.519 Sanders and we went to see phah Sanders 00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.039 and this German intellectual got so 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.120 upset he thought that he thought the 00:32:04.120 --> 00:32:08.600 band was making fun of white people's 00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:11.120 naiv that they were playing because 00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:13.159 they'd go home and like you believe they 00:32:13.159 --> 00:32:15.679 they pay for this I can walk right over 00:32:15.679 --> 00:32:18.200 there and get my albums of pharoh 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:21.120 Sanders um yeah so that's the kind of 00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:23.360 jazz we used to listen to I used to go 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:26.080 and listen to Steve Lacy I remember a 00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:28.159 lot 00:32:28.159 --> 00:32:30.760 and I would get so synesthetic that the 00:32:30.760 --> 00:32:34.840 music was all these these visuals of 00:32:34.840 --> 00:32:37.200 these notes that would change look like 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.480 do that would change color and then do 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.720 this you know of course it was because 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:44.399 part of it was because so late at night 00:32:44.399 --> 00:32:47.720 and I worked and I was like drinking a 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.799 lot of caffeine and I was at these 00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:55.080 concerts and and um being in these these 00:32:55.080 --> 00:32:57.760 dimensional spaces of con Consciousness 00:32:57.760 --> 00:33:03.360 that were like um magnificent you know 00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:05.679 um and and I never thought it was a 00:33:05.679 --> 00:33:08.240 coincidence there was some magic that 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.799 were was happening and actually I think 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.559 Ry and Marie were in I used to do uh um 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.799 a little workshop on circus Jazz how 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.399 circus Jazz opens the way your mind is 00:33:22.399 --> 00:33:24.559 wired 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.519 uh in a in a way that 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.440 is kind of one of the things meditation 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:33.039 can help you with 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.039 um but yeah phoh Sanders that's That's 00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:39.080 Heavy hitting that's that that requires 00:33:39.080 --> 00:33:43.799 a a very very skillful attending and a 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.960 letting go at the same 00:33:47.159 --> 00:33:51.039 time uh I would recommend Carla BL 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.279 escalator over the hill you could buy 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.360 the CD set it's an 00:33:55.360 --> 00:34:01.240 Offa Carla BL b y escalator over the 00:34:24.560 --> 00:34:27.639 hill okay so one of the are there any 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.320 other comments I mean we're just kind of 00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.599 this is the fireside chat so far but we 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.119 can move 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:42.720 on I I have just a a thought that's 00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:45.960 coming up 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:51.839 um this this idea of 00:34:51.879 --> 00:34:54.000 musicality of 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.879 song 00:34:55.879 --> 00:34:58.280 of tiny 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.160 elements weaving into something 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:06.160 bigger and the sun being 00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:09.160 greater 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.040 um and the idea of 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:18.160 um transmission that happens through 00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:21.680 song The Sound enters 00:35:21.680 --> 00:35:24.640 us 00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:27.800 um the vibrations do 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.400 and there's this um process of 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.760 entrainment right 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:41.000 where organisms begin to move 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.800 together when they're moving to a shared 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.640 song 00:35:46.640 --> 00:35:51.960 so this is the practice of singing an 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.680 infant to 00:35:54.680 --> 00:35:57.680 comfort while rocking 00:35:57.680 --> 00:36:01.200 it's also sex it's 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:04.040 also huge groups of people listening to 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:08.440 music there is this life force of shared 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.040 experience in the 00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:15.560 sounding but it's a 00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:20.119 transmission that's that's 00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.720 Mya 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.040 um I just wanted to share a little bit 00:36:46.040 --> 00:36:47.839 about Jan 00:36:47.839 --> 00:36:53.200 zinsky and I have a question to ask um I 00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:56.079 had an I had the experience of listening 00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.680 to her read some of her 00:36:59.839 --> 00:37:03.359 poetry and the 00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:06.000 experience I can't 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.839 decide whether I just don't have the 00:37:09.839 --> 00:37:13.760 ability to share that experience with 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.119 language or I don't want to it just 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.560 doesn't matter and I'm just curious I'm 00:37:21.560 --> 00:37:23.400 sitting with that because that might 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.640 unfold further um 00:37:27.640 --> 00:37:31.079 H and I wonder also if it's a little bit 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.720 relating to one of the allergies or that 00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:38.599 I noticed when I was at University one 00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:40.079 of my Majors was 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.800 English and I really 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.599 struggled to do this analytical 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.400 unpacking of poetry it's like I lost 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:54.000 half of it as soon as I did it now or 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.880 all of it or really went into actually 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:00.119 went into a space that wasn't the poem 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:03.160 actually wasn't really that space once I 00:38:03.160 --> 00:38:04.040 went 00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.680 into listening to lectures breaking it 00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:08.839 all down blah blah blah and then trying 00:38:08.839 --> 00:38:12.280 to write something in that way 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.760 myself and I'm wondering is that why I 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.560 don't want to maybe that just occurred 00:38:17.560 --> 00:38:19.280 to me actually maybe that's why I don't 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.720 want to language this or I want to 00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:24.079 language 00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.000 it why do I need to language it at all 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:31.119 all cuz I heard Jan say very clearly 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.680 that if we're going to use language we 00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:37.640 need to be very exact and that reminded 00:38:37.640 --> 00:38:41.079 me of here a lot where we draw 00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:43.400 distinctions so that we are at least on 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.480 the same page but then we see very 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.440 quickly or I saw very quickly this coar 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:54.119 grained language thing and it 00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.520 doesn't often help at all 00:39:00.359 --> 00:39:05.119 and for some reason I still want to say 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.720 and express this experience of listening 00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:13.240 to her poetry it's cool poetry 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:15.240 that's very cool anyway that's all I 00:39:15.240 --> 00:39:17.400 have to say at the moment thank 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.640 you yeah in her big book she talks a lot 00:39:20.640 --> 00:39:22.920 about I haven't read it all yet a lot 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.119 about world 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.760 wordlessness that 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.400 philosophers biggest challenge is that 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.240 they're always operating on just just on 00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:36.960 this edge of 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.960 wordlessness 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.640 um so I'm not I'm not trying to make 00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:48.680 janza wikii like our you know leader or 00:39:48.680 --> 00:39:52.040 anything like that 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.960 um just using her 00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.440 her method 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:01.680 really 00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:05.720 um her approach her way has a lot to do 00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:08.200 with what we've been doing and you know 00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:10.480 I only recently discovered 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.480 her um 00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.000 and it's nice 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:19.960 to be able to draw on a body of work 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.680 that's already there to to play with and 00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:25.359 stuff you know 00:40:25.359 --> 00:40:26.920 um 00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:30.280 because For Me lyric lyric culture is 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:33.560 lyric philosophy plus something like 00:40:33.560 --> 00:40:36.680 waren Heidi's uh 00:40:36.680 --> 00:40:39.599 attending as an art or attending as a 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.760 sacred art 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.440 times David hinton's wild mind wild 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:49.359 Earth um so those three things together 00:40:49.359 --> 00:40:52.920 to me make lyric lyric 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.880 culture lyric philosophy attending as a 00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:57.599 sacred act 00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.200 and um whatever you want to call the 00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:03.920 third one W way 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:09.680 or being inside the six Extinction event 00:41:09.680 --> 00:41:12.160 something and I would say that that 00:41:12.160 --> 00:41:14.440 that's lyric 00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.440 culture 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:21.400 um and you know that's how 20124 is set 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.560 out if you if you go to the Retreats but 00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:27.800 also um the posts and the 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:29.760 the reflections and the briefs will be 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:33.280 based upon Warren hi h 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:36.480 i I don't know how to say his last 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:40.920 name I can find it really 00:41:41.640 --> 00:41:45.800 fast it's also 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.040 um as a 00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:53.560 art um no that's not 00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:56.560 good it's also listed on the Retreat 00:41:56.560 --> 00:42:00.720 website as the resource for the second 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.079 Retreat yeah I wanted to ask sort of 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:20.160 about like bringing it sort of back to 00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:23.680 egregor yeah let's do that yeah because 00:42:23.680 --> 00:42:25.680 we're talking about music and Harmony 00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:28.119 but sometimes times things are not super 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:30.720 harmonious and the music isn't so great 00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:33.760 like I remember um chanting one time in 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:36.559 this Temple and there was this one woman 00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.760 who just chanted so loud like so so loud 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.400 that you no one else could hear like and 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.359 it sort of threw everyone off because 00:42:45.359 --> 00:42:48.119 and you know she wasn't aware of it um 00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:51.000 but just sort of you know how to shift 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.760 or how to respond when the music is 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.800 someone's maybe toned deaf or like it's 00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.240 not moving in a harmonious 00:42:59.240 --> 00:43:02.640 Direction so what's interesting what zi 00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:05.160 does in her big book is she has her two 00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:06.960 big books is she has something on the 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.400 left hand side that she writes that 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.960 sounds like her and then something on 00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.480 the right- hand side which is analytic 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.559 philosophy and she challenges the reader 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:19.720 to say how do these two 00:43:19.720 --> 00:43:22.240 things go 00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:23.960 together 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.599 um and it's not easy 00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.440 I mean I pride myself on someone who 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.559 could answer these puzzles and I'm like 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:33.440 what you know like so it's not like 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:37.359 she's she's trying to 00:43:37.359 --> 00:43:42.520 be utopian or Kumbaya person 00:43:42.520 --> 00:43:45.240 um but the notion of the agore if we're 00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:46.920 going to move on to that is really 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:48.800 fascinating 00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.559 because 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:55.079 um when we look at the origins of 00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.079 culture 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.079 and when we think about new culture 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.480 emerging cultures or or new unfolding 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:09.119 cultures we think of culture as creating 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:14.079 a wi space right so like um people 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.240 understand themselves as a people as the 00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:20.680 Jewish people or as Irish people um um 00:44:20.680 --> 00:44:24.040 and early on before the modern era those 00:44:24.040 --> 00:44:26.280 were not related to States they were 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:30.359 related to ancestry right so culture has 00:44:30.359 --> 00:44:33.160 to do with creating these larger and 00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:35.800 larger units of 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:37.800 identity 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:45.599 um creating a we space and a we 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.640 space um depending on you how you 00:44:48.640 --> 00:44:52.000 describe it but for me what a we is as 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.200 opposed to an us so an us is like a 00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:58.079 category us 00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.640 Americans you know we're we go off in 00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:04.440 all different directions but a we is 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.839 like a team we 00:45:07.839 --> 00:45:14.920 won the game right um but um and some 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.559 people will say you know we Americans we 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:20.880 won the war I don't experience that as 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.520 like we won the War I experience as like 00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:26.520 us Americans won the war yet again or us 00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:28.960 Americans started the war right so for 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:34.359 me we has this capacity to be a unit of 00:45:35.319 --> 00:45:37.760 action and this is kind of the Holy 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.520 Grail of these practices how do you 00:45:40.520 --> 00:45:42.240 create a culture where people are 00:45:42.240 --> 00:45:45.040 coherent or resonant enough that they 00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.000 can act 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.520 collaboratively at scales that can 00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:51.240 change the 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:53.359 system 00:45:53.359 --> 00:45:57.319 right so um this is a question for a lot 00:45:57.319 --> 00:46:00.680 of people and if you've tried to do 00:46:00.680 --> 00:46:04.800 alternative things you find that you 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.000 even acting at a scale of five or six 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000 people is really hard it's really hard 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.440 to make so Jonathan rousson calls it the 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:13.760 impossible 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.440 we like how many how much effort's gone 00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.800 into like the emerge and the de in 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:21.440 development people and all these efforts 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.119 to and gain be and blah blah blah all 00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:30.559 these efforts to create a we and by we I 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:32.720 mean is not an us not just people that 00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:35.839 identify with game be it's an us I'm a 00:46:35.839 --> 00:46:39.280 card carrying game be or 00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:41.720 whatever um 00:46:41.720 --> 00:46:44.559 but the kind of glue that makes it a 00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:47.200 unit of 00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:50.200 action so this is this is something 00:46:50.200 --> 00:46:51.960 people have been experimenting with and 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.200 working on for a long time you might 00:46:54.200 --> 00:46:56.280 find it hard to make your own family a 00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.280 unit of action these days one's a 00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.160 Republicans some are Democrats this one 00:47:00.160 --> 00:47:03.559 marries a financial person and and you 00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:07.839 can't you can't act together 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.839 anymore but having said that on the 00:47:12.839 --> 00:47:15.599 global scale we are a huge unit of 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.760 action we 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.920 we extract resources we have these 00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.640 Global Supply chains we have these 00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:28.079 Global uh geopolitical systems and we do 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.800 this without any effort we become this 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.520 huge we if you're you know if you're 00:47:34.520 --> 00:47:36.040 like another animal and you're looking 00:47:36.040 --> 00:47:38.000 at the human species they're like a 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.520 we're like a swarm of ants that is 00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:43.559 really really really coordinated and 00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.760 active and powerful and 00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:50.960 destructive we are without trying a huge 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.760 Wei it's just not the we anyone wants to 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.280 be or do we want to be this is the big 00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.760 conundrum of all these experiments 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.400 everyone's trying to become a we and not 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.440 realizing that should how we need to 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.720 understand that we are a we and it's so 00:48:07.720 --> 00:48:09.599 Insidious we don't even have to try to 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.440 be a wee we can even try not to be a we 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.359 and we're part of that unit of action so 00:48:15.359 --> 00:48:17.160 if you're interested in creating wi 00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:19.280 spaces you have to come to terms with 00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:21.680 this 00:48:24.640 --> 00:48:27.640 paradox 00:48:33.720 --> 00:48:36.839 I have a question for you because of 00:48:36.839 --> 00:48:38.960 your 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:40.520 dogs 00:48:40.520 --> 00:48:44.200 um yeah um so a friend of mine who lives 00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:47.200 on a penthouse but there's no 00:48:47.200 --> 00:48:50.960 elevator um has this huge great thing 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.880 that has decided that's it I'm not going 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:57.599 up those stairs 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.799 and so Lucy that's her name she's 00:49:01.799 --> 00:49:06.040 staying with me now so he's got this 200 00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:08.559 square meter Penthouse I've got this 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:11.559 little Studio but the only place in the 00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:14.280 village where this dog could be is in my 00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.440 studio so there's been this really 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:21.640 interesting kind of thing happening 00:49:21.640 --> 00:49:26.680 right and um in contemplating Lucy who's 00:49:26.680 --> 00:49:28.920 had the grace to accept 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:33.599 me you know like we get that this is 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.640 where she can live right 00:49:36.640 --> 00:49:40.799 now um it struck me how all dogs came 00:49:40.799 --> 00:49:42.880 from 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:46.119 wolves and I remember this Bruno tour 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.359 lecture where he put this slide of like 00:49:49.359 --> 00:49:52.880 what we've done to dogs for the sake of 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:56.079 having a domestic companion 00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:59.480 we've bred all these kinds of 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:03.280 weirdnesses and and this great dane you 00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:08.040 know her back legs are you know inbred 00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:10.119 anomaly that's why it's not only her 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:12.640 back legs their hearts are too small so 00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:15.640 their back legs give out first yeah 00:50:15.640 --> 00:50:19.400 exactly so it just struck me that you 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:22.160 know without talking about any moral 00:50:22.160 --> 00:50:24.440 judgments just the fact that we've 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:28.559 manipulated a wolf's jeans to this 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.000 extent from the chaha to the Great 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.960 Dane it it just kind of creeped me out 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.520 you know that I mean how much effort how 00:50:39.520 --> 00:50:43.839 much experimentation has gone into all 00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:46.240 this inbreeding for the 00:50:46.240 --> 00:50:50.240 sake of having a 00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:55.520 pet and I mean it was an outrage I 00:50:55.520 --> 00:50:59.359 hadn't really felt before at our own 00:50:59.359 --> 00:51:02.640 species you know and our I mean of 00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:04.400 course we do that with tomatoes and 00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.960 chickens and pigs and everything 00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:13.480 else people but you know these dogs just 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:18.520 give you like this crazy ass loyalty you 00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:20.119 know 00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:24.359 um that we can't seem to muster you know 00:51:24.359 --> 00:51:27.599 disloyalty without submission I mean 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.119 that's how I feel 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:33.359 it and oh she said something when I said 00:51:33.359 --> 00:51:35.599 that 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:38.760 um you know and and I'm also being 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:42.000 initiated into like pallative care 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.160 because her back legs it's so hard for 00:51:45.160 --> 00:51:48.319 her to get up that she poops a little 00:51:48.319 --> 00:51:51.480 bit when she gets up you know and of 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:53.520 course I'm just in the studio so I can 00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:55.880 smell it and then I'm growing through 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.000 this whole thing in my head saying I'm 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.839 just conditioned to think that this is a 00:52:01.839 --> 00:52:04.559 bad smell stop it you know just get up 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.480 deal with it you know and and and it's 00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:09.880 like this whole dispositionality is 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:14.680 being tested oh my God like you know 00:52:14.680 --> 00:52:20.000 into like put putri action okay and and 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:23.079 I like it I mean I like the challenge 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:26.040 you know like it feels right for the 00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:31.040 time to be tested at that level and I 00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:35.599 guess that's kind of what I'm um 00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:40.839 embracing honestly in the adventure of 00:52:40.839 --> 00:52:43.200 dispositionality not as some kind of 00:52:43.200 --> 00:52:46.599 formula but as an adventure I mean how 00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:50.720 far can you take this in this 00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:54.319 deconditioning of what's acceptable 00:52:54.319 --> 00:52:56.480 what's not great thing to run 00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:59.200 experiments like this like you both 00:52:59.200 --> 00:53:01.720 realize it's not the whole but it's a 00:53:01.720 --> 00:53:04.119 very very interesting Adventure or 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:08.520 experiment to run you learn a lot 00:53:08.520 --> 00:53:14.119 from these experiments that 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:19.880 that yeah my whole life is kind of like 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:23.079 one of those weird that kind of 00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:27.160 experiment um 00:53:30.839 --> 00:53:33.480 now do you think that could catch on as 00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:34.720 an 00:53:34.720 --> 00:53:38.119 egregor well okay this is the question 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:40.640 what is what makes an EG what makes it a 00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:44.079 catch on what are the components that 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:46.960 make people move at 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.720 scale and I mean we talked about them 00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:51.640 last time there were the four 00:53:51.640 --> 00:53:56.200 components and what you realize if you 00:53:56.200 --> 00:53:58.839 can if you can 00:53:58.839 --> 00:54:02.119 infect all you know if you can if you 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:06.160 can be effective in all four 00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:09.040 components 00:54:09.040 --> 00:54:12.839 um then you 00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:16.520 can then the system will run itself 00:54:16.520 --> 00:54:18.640 right so this reminds me of something 00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:20.680 when I first met Nora Bates and she had 00:54:20.680 --> 00:54:24.079 this theory of of change or 00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:27.359 whatever and the where she she got a 00:54:27.359 --> 00:54:30.079 grant to run the theory in a mental 00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:31.520 institution where they worked with 00:54:31.520 --> 00:54:34.200 addicts because she's like what makes 00:54:34.200 --> 00:54:36.319 people addicted like if you get people 00:54:36.319 --> 00:54:38.880 addicted to the right thing you know or 00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.839 it's kind of like asking that question 00:54:40.839 --> 00:54:43.079 what makes 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:46.480 us able to coordinate at such a large 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:47.599 global 00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:50.440 scale um 00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:54.720 and and figure out that and but use it 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:56.839 to different a different purpose you 00:54:56.839 --> 00:54:59.440 know the the pro problem is does it only 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:01.880 work if you're destructive and then if 00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:05.119 you want to uh have a culture that 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:09.400 creates more life it doesn't work like 00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.839 is that is that the case I mean I don't 00:55:12.839 --> 00:55:15.119 know it's it's an interesting 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.200 question but I think we have to come to 00:55:17.200 --> 00:55:19.640 the fact that without effort were this 00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:23.160 huge powerful unit on the face of the 00:55:23.160 --> 00:55:28.359 Earth and we and 00:55:28.720 --> 00:55:32.200 and it's there to tell us like like what 00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:34.680 are the components of being a huge 00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.799 powerful we on the 00:55:36.799 --> 00:55:40.880 earth um instead of only thinking like 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:42.520 we're try you know we have to have all 00:55:42.520 --> 00:55:45.599 these ex exotic psycho Technologies to 00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:50.280 become a Wei we need to learn what is 00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:53.400 what is already this huge powerful thing 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.480 that makes us this huge powerful 00:55:57.720 --> 00:56:00.559 we and somehow reproduce that to 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.960 different 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.520 purpose I mean some people would answer 00:56:14.520 --> 00:56:16.400 that in a very easy way it's because 00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:18.760 people are greedy so if you design this 00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.799 thing around greed then people become a 00:56:21.799 --> 00:56:23.640 huge powerful 00:56:23.640 --> 00:56:28.160 weat um is that the answer I don't think 00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:31.599 so um yeah but what what is greediness 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.200 though exactly then that then you would 00:56:34.200 --> 00:56:36.760 you would want to look at that like why 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:39.280 is so but some people would say that you 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:44.359 know some people would say but 00:56:45.799 --> 00:56:49.799 but yeah but for example white head has 00:56:49.799 --> 00:56:51.920 this great I'm not going to say it right 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.960 but it's something like uh it's in the 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:58.680 adventure of ideas that that peace can 00:56:58.680 --> 00:57:00.400 be 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.039 easily 00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:04.720 um 00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:07.920 perverted by its 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:11.520 aberation which is 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.839 anesthesia and I think consumerism was a 00:57:15.839 --> 00:57:18.319 form of collective 00:57:18.319 --> 00:57:23.400 anesthesia coming out of the you know 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.880 knowing that we were capable 00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.079 of Exterminating ourselves after the 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:33.200 atomic bomb as a collective unconscious 00:57:33.200 --> 00:57:35.839 I mean I think we give ourselves too 00:57:35.839 --> 00:57:39.839 much of an illusion of individual agency 00:57:39.839 --> 00:57:43.240 you know that we are in an agregar all 00:57:43.240 --> 00:57:46.480 the time I 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:51.039 mean and that we've created this myth of 00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:52.400 um the 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:55.920 individual and that's sort of of what 00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:00.319 anesthetizes us from I mean what's that 00:58:00.319 --> 00:58:04.640 fungus that falls on an ant and takes 00:58:04.640 --> 00:58:07.359 over its 00:58:07.359 --> 00:58:10.839 neural um thing and makes 00:58:10.839 --> 00:58:15.599 it shortcuts their pro-social thing and 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.280 makes the ant just gather more food to 00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.119 feed the fungus until the fungus like 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:23.720 breaks through its head 00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:27.000 um I forget the name of it but it's very 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:28.680 curious 00:58:28.680 --> 00:58:32.760 thing and I I I feel 00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.440 like it's been this erroneous 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:38.960 exceptionalism about the human that 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.359 somehow is created in the image of a God 00:58:41.359 --> 00:58:43.680 and therefore not part of everything 00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:47.839 else and and so we don't even we can't 00:58:47.839 --> 00:58:51.400 onto epically conceive of ourselves as 00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:56.720 as being parasitical as being you know 00:58:56.799 --> 00:59:01.280 um not the captains of our soul you know 00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:05.400 whatever that is um and I think that 00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.280 with this connectivity with this melan 00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:11.200 age we have an opportunity to actually 00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:15.039 see that I mean I'm sure you know him 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:17.559 Bonita Patrick Ryan you know because he 00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:20.240 shows up at the sto yeah you know what I 00:59:20.240 --> 00:59:22.440 was wondering I'm looking at Marie and r 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.920 ray I'm wondering if the Italians have 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:27.520 concept of the 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:34.000 aggregor like do they worry about the 00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:41.319 egregor ask about their concept of 00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:50.319 pizza I don't 00:59:50.319 --> 00:59:53.640 know I don't know are we 00:59:53.640 --> 00:59:55.720 there we 00:59:55.720 --> 00:59:58.720 there 01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:04.920 yeah yeah I don't I don't know I don't 01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:10.520 know I I know that they that I 01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.000 experience um at least the Italians that 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.920 I'm around I experience them as a very 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:22.400 very different group that moves together 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:23.359 than I 01:00:23.359 --> 01:00:26.320 do with people that I hang out with back 01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.440 [Music] 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.079 home the culture has a different way of 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:33.799 moving around I don't think anybody can 01:00:33.799 --> 01:00:34.920 hear 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.520 us are we Frozen no we can hear you 01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:42.359 frozen you said the culture moves around 01:00:42.359 --> 01:00:44.559 differently oh 01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.200 okay yeah they move they're they're in 01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:49.680 relationship with with one another 01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:53.079 different sorry about that this is a 01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:56.240 makeshift thing here 01:00:56.240 --> 01:00:59.119 there yeah it's it's I don't you guys 01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.640 get deported and you're in like a cell 01:01:01.640 --> 01:01:02.640 now or 01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:05.119 something the Italians put you in some 01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:09.000 kind of detention center 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:12.599 did correct well it it actually might be 01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.039 worth telling um 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:21.520 Sandy Sandy said it um we're on a pizza 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.000 pilgrimage um we're we're in a place 01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:26.039 called 01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:30.680 Kazo and uh there's a guy here that's a 01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:31.760 third 01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:33.400 generation 01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:37.039 pizza maker and he broke off from the 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:41.520 family because he decided that pizza 01:01:41.520 --> 01:01:45.280 didn't have to be like a peasant food 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.359 and he wanted to make it something else 01:01:47.359 --> 01:01:51.039 and so he just kept experimenting and he 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:55.319 spent 12 years experimenting and it it 01:01:55.319 --> 01:01:58.640 cost him his marriage it cost him his 01:01:58.640 --> 01:02:01.680 family broke off from his brothers 01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:04.720 everything and and he's created 01:02:04.720 --> 01:02:08.599 something and so uh we came here we got 01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:12.440 off on the train this is um we're not 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:17.319 near anything but um like you yeah it's 01:02:17.319 --> 01:02:20.240 an old village on a hill and you get off 01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:22.480 the train and and and you just like 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.000 follow the people they're all coming 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.599 here for the pizza and it's like this I 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.559 I I mean this one guy has 01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:37.480 revitalized this this Village this town 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:39.960 that has gained this International 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:41.799 reputation 01:02:41.799 --> 01:02:45.680 for pizza and and and it's it's a 01:02:45.680 --> 01:02:48.680 medieval town it's yeah medieval town on 01:02:48.680 --> 01:02:51.000 a hill and he he's 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.720 engaged um you guys are all all the 01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:54.960 local farmers 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:57.640 yeah for us you're you're you're Frozen 01:02:57.640 --> 01:03:00.319 no no you're good you're good has a very 01:03:00.319 --> 01:03:02.520 smile on her face you're 01:03:02.520 --> 01:03:07.599 good um anyway so so yeah just like I 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:11.640 mean it's been it's it it it's very 01:03:11.640 --> 01:03:14.440 provocative in thinking about this 01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:18.480 experience in relationship to trying to 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.839 like make change happen in the world 01:03:21.839 --> 01:03:24.799 like he wasn't trying to create in the 01:03:24.799 --> 01:03:28.119 Middle East or do any Grand Endeavor he 01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:31.880 just loved pizza and and he's like 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:36.359 there's airbnbs all over this town and 01:03:36.359 --> 01:03:40.640 um he sources all the the ingredients 01:03:40.640 --> 01:03:45.319 for his pizzas from local farmers and 01:03:45.319 --> 01:03:49.200 and it just has so many Ripple effects 01:03:49.200 --> 01:03:52.319 from this simple thing and it's it's 01:03:52.319 --> 01:03:54.799 incredibly elegant at the same time 01:03:54.799 --> 01:03:58.720 it's very elegant so yeah 01:03:58.720 --> 01:04:01.319 that's so I would say this is lyric 01:04:01.319 --> 01:04:03.680 culture because it's you you become 01:04:03.680 --> 01:04:06.520 obsessed with the particular you know 01:04:06.520 --> 01:04:08.920 what is the particular and you just you 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:12.799 just it's not about the global or the 01:04:12.799 --> 01:04:16.920 the it it's it's these pockets of 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:22.240 particularity and um 01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:25.760 um which answers to me answers the 01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:28.839 egregor question it's it's the pursuit 01:04:28.839 --> 01:04:33.839 of of culture at scale is a distortion 01:04:33.839 --> 01:04:36.440 it it is what turns culture into 01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:40.200 evil this we've been at it for you know 01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:43.680 15,000 years culture only moves into 01:04:43.680 --> 01:04:46.200 larger fewer and fewer types and larger 01:04:46.200 --> 01:04:49.240 and larger scale and at a certain point 01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:52.240 it's an the inflection point it culture 01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:54.720 becomes uh 01:04:54.720 --> 01:04:59.680 renic um so if you had more people you 01:04:59.680 --> 01:05:02.319 know so here he's he if you have more 01:05:02.319 --> 01:05:05.319 people following 01:05:05.319 --> 01:05:08.039 peculiarities you would have a different 01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.680 type of 01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:13.119 relationship you would have individuals 01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:15.839 that were connected by their 01:05:15.839 --> 01:05:18.960 unique um gifts 01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:21.720 versus by these 01:05:21.720 --> 01:05:24.640 massive uh means by which people just do 01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.319 what they're 01:05:26.319 --> 01:05:29.799 told it's it's palpable it was it's 01:05:29.799 --> 01:05:32.680 really inspiring to sort of Step into 01:05:32.680 --> 01:05:35.960 the Ambiance of all 01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:38.920 that it's the same with that film 01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:41.160 100,000 beating Hearts the guy started 01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:43.520 to farm differently now he's on Twitter 01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:46.240 and he's on the TV was on Joe Rogan they 01:05:46.240 --> 01:05:48.279 have a whole Community it's white white 01:05:48.279 --> 01:05:51.520 out pastures and they've gone on to do 01:05:51.520 --> 01:05:55.799 all kinds of things by one person's 01:05:55.799 --> 01:05:59.480 decision obl obligatory 01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:04.359 vow um and I think that this is 01:06:04.359 --> 01:06:06.160 the the 01:06:06.160 --> 01:06:09.119 Paradox because everybody's trying to 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:10.720 run culture 01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:14.799 through rules of 01:06:14.799 --> 01:06:16.799 scale 01:06:16.799 --> 01:06:19.960 and um this just 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:22.720 reproduces Mass 01:06:22.720 --> 01:06:25.200 Consciousness which becomes destructive 01:06:25.200 --> 01:06:29.279 because it can be colonized by 01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:38.000 power is there a way 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.559 that some I don't even know what to say 01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:46.480 group can create you know at huge scale 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.079 a 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:52.000 real embracing of true 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:55.039 diversity you see the the challenge here 01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:59.359 or The Leverage is not in trying to 01:06:59.359 --> 01:07:02.039 create something else another Goliath at 01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:04.640 scale that can fight the Goliath that's 01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:08.559 there it's this people to stop paying 01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:11.200 attention to being part of what is what 01:07:11.200 --> 01:07:14.279 scales and to spend their all their life 01:07:14.279 --> 01:07:18.119 in voluntary obligation to something in 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.279 particular spend all your life gardening 01:07:21.279 --> 01:07:23.319 and get a little job on the side if you 01:07:23.319 --> 01:07:24.680 have to 01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:26.359 and then you don't you don't contribute 01:07:26.359 --> 01:07:30.599 to the thing but all the Consciousness 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.880 even among young people want to change 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:34.760 the system is all let's build another 01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:36.799 big system and what I'm saying it's a 01:07:36.799 --> 01:07:40.680 convivial tool is that that culture at 01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:43.520 scale is 01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:47.279 evil because to become culture at scale 01:07:47.279 --> 01:07:49.319 you have to swallow other cultures and 01:07:49.319 --> 01:07:52.920 then mass mass condition 01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:55.920 them 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:01.520 that cultures flourish when they they 01:08:01.520 --> 01:08:05.480 they're allowed to diverse and divest 01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:08.119 into their 01:08:22.839 --> 01:08:25.839 particulars 01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:28.120 and what are there there's only 200 01:08:28.120 --> 01:08:31.040 Nations and everybody speaks English you 01:08:31.040 --> 01:08:33.480 know there's like there's no there's no 01:08:33.480 --> 01:08:36.319 cultures left there's just this big a 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.000 glutenous 01:08:52.799 --> 01:08:55.799 mass 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:02.319 there are some cultures 01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.359 left yes and I think there's a lot of 01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:08.679 little emerging ones yeah yeah and 01:09:08.679 --> 01:09:12.040 there's ones that very often weaving 01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:15.719 back into what we were talking about 01:09:15.719 --> 01:09:19.759 before with the music um language is a 01:09:19.759 --> 01:09:20.600 type 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:25.120 of music it's a type of in 01:09:25.120 --> 01:09:27.279 rment 01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:31.400 um and I loved I loved what was said 01:09:31.400 --> 01:09:36.560 about how you can notice how the Italian 01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:40.279 culture sort of moves differently yes 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:43.799 and there is like a 01:09:43.799 --> 01:09:46.560 um there's a 01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:50.640 body uh patterning movement patterning 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:51.480 to 01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:55.920 culture um and some of that can be seen 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:58.320 in you know stereotypes that people make 01:09:58.320 --> 01:10:00.880 but it's also kind of 01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:05.640 a way way that people come to relate and 01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:08.880 communicate on a body level 01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:13.239 um yeah I'm I'm heading to Argentina to 01:10:13.239 --> 01:10:14.440 study the 01:10:14.440 --> 01:10:18.600 tango and um I'm really excited to do 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:22.640 that because it's um it's really 01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:24.640 uh 01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:27.360 a folk 01:10:27.360 --> 01:10:29.360 dance that 01:10:29.360 --> 01:10:32.679 originated in multip in a multiplicity 01:10:32.679 --> 01:10:33.679 of 01:10:33.679 --> 01:10:36.159 diversity and there was a way of 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:38.080 relating to one another that crossed 01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:39.600 language 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:42.719 removement especially for people who had 01:10:42.719 --> 01:10:45.159 left family and felt 01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:46.679 lonely 01:10:46.679 --> 01:10:50.719 um and at it at its core is the embrace 01:10:50.719 --> 01:10:51.880 the the 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:54.199 hug um 01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:57.120 which hearkens back once again 01:10:57.120 --> 01:11:01.000 to being held by by a caregiver at the 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:04.360 very beginning heart tohe heart so this 01:11:04.360 --> 01:11:06.760 isced to be ENT trained in that culture 01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:08.920 yeah no this is a big Insight because if 01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:11.320 you think 01:11:13.080 --> 01:11:16.960 about um if you think about a lot of 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:19.600 them some of the Mediterranean 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:22.080 cultures um some of the a lot of the 01:11:22.080 --> 01:11:24.880 resistance that comes from like France 01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:28.520 Italy Greece is that the people 01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:32.360 literally refuse to move a certain way 01:11:32.360 --> 01:11:34.960 like you know if you're like a big Tech 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:36.840 startup and stuff you want to see people 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:39.320 moving right and it's like it's like 01:11:39.320 --> 01:11:40.760 just their 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:44.000 physical drag from this mod you know 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.040 you're like they they're so slow Manana 01:11:47.040 --> 01:11:50.840 like this whole this whole thing is very 01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:54.960 politically very very positive you know 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:58.040 resistance just the refusal to move your 01:11:58.040 --> 01:12:00.600 body in a certain way is very powerful 01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:02.840 resistance I mean anyone that's been 01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:04.520 trying to teach high school kids and 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.719 then you know come on we gotta go here 01:12:06.719 --> 01:12:09.280 and then they just their bodies just 01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:11.880 they just don't Roberta is laughing do 01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:14.920 you know but this is this is you know 01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:16.480 then of course it gets the activist 01:12:16.480 --> 01:12:18.440 going they won't they just lay down and 01:12:18.440 --> 01:12:21.440 stuff like this but in the everyday life 01:12:21.440 --> 01:12:24.480 this a very powerful if you learn to 01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:26.960 move differently if you learn to move 01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.520 your body in different ways this becomes 01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.159 an act of resistance just naturally I 01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:36.120 would say that that is a 01:12:36.120 --> 01:12:39.600 big a big part of cultural change is 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.639 exactly what what you just said um it's 01:12:42.639 --> 01:12:45.400 not trivial it's 01:12:45.400 --> 01:12:48.400 fundamental 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.600 um 01:12:52.440 --> 01:12:55.440 yeah 01:13:06.280 --> 01:13:08.199 are you saying we should get out of our 01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:11.880 chairs when you start your 01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:22.360 playlist I don't know what I'm 01:13:22.360 --> 01:13:25.360 saying 01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:52.159 but the concept of Igor is really 01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:55.639 interesting and and how has 01:13:57.159 --> 01:14:00.400 to be 01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:25.280 understood 01:14:27.320 --> 01:14:33.120 just um going going back to um how when 01:14:33.120 --> 01:14:37.320 systems become too large they 01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:41.000 lose some of the 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:43.920 essence um 01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.840 I'm I've observed I've been practicing 01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:50.480 Tango for a while and um it's very it's 01:14:50.480 --> 01:14:52.400 wonderful there are a lot of beautiful 01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:53.880 great things about it 01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:58.760 it um and it also has moved away from 01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:01.639 its Essence which add its Essence was a 01:15:01.639 --> 01:15:02.679 community 01:15:02.679 --> 01:15:05.040 dance where children danced with aunts 01:15:05.040 --> 01:15:06.760 and uncles and 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:08.840 grandparents it wasn't just about being 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:11.719 sexy even though it's great to be sexy 01:15:11.719 --> 01:15:16.040 but it was about Community Connection 01:15:16.040 --> 01:15:18.719 and a witness a circle of 01:15:18.719 --> 01:15:22.199 witnesses holding space for the 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:25.520 interpersonal connection of the 01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:28.080 community you know similar to break 01:15:28.080 --> 01:15:30.360 dancing at its roots and now of course 01:15:30.360 --> 01:15:34.520 ex captured yeah this that's right the 01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:38.320 scene and the youth and the development 01:15:38.320 --> 01:15:42.480 of it um and the 01:15:42.480 --> 01:15:46.800 performance um yeah 01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:49.800 um these are all things to look at in 01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:51.360 terms of 01:15:51.360 --> 01:15:54.320 like how things natur 01:15:54.320 --> 01:15:57.400 emerge um we can learn from them they're 01:15:57.400 --> 01:15:59.600 still in the human 01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.480 system 01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:04.960 and I think trying 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:08.040 to I mean I think it odd psycho 01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:09.719 Technologies are important you can learn 01:16:09.719 --> 01:16:14.840 a lot from them but I think they 01:16:19.080 --> 01:16:21.679 they I think they're too Fringe I think 01:16:21.679 --> 01:16:23.520 there's an answer right in the the heart 01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.800 of who we are as humans right in the 01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:30.719 heart of what culture is and how it has 01:16:30.719 --> 01:16:32.960 and always has sustained 01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:35.000 itself 01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:37.920 um and a lot of the psycho Technologies 01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:41.480 I think are to break the old habits you 01:16:41.480 --> 01:16:43.080 know but I don't think they're 01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:45.800 necessarily 01:16:47.040 --> 01:16:49.920 templates this is something I an illich 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.360 would say you know most of religion now 01:16:52.360 --> 01:16:55.600 should be people eating around the table 01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:59.040 friends you know uh and 01:16:59.040 --> 01:17:02.040 so 01:17:02.679 --> 01:17:05.040 um I mean that's this is the 01:17:05.040 --> 01:17:07.000 conversation we're having today like 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:08.560 there's there's something 01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.199 in our default mode that's actually very 01:17:12.199 --> 01:17:18.960 valuable that can help us um and 01:17:21.280 --> 01:17:24.080 um yeah that's why I love what Marie and 01:17:24.080 --> 01:17:27.199 and Ry said like something as how could 01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:31.400 something as transformative as 01:17:31.400 --> 01:17:35.280 pizza or you 01:17:39.120 --> 01:17:42.560 know there are kiosks in parts of the 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:44.360 city that are like that they've been 01:17:44.360 --> 01:17:47.040 around um I'm not sure in America but 01:17:47.040 --> 01:17:50.280 there's some in in 01:17:50.400 --> 01:17:53.239 Japan that have been around for six or 01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:53.660 seven 01:17:53.660 --> 01:17:55.480 [Music] 01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:58.400 generations and people get married on 01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:02.440 the street around these kiosks 01:18:06.080 --> 01:18:10.000 and something like that's very very 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.440 important to study 01:18:12.440 --> 01:18:14.679 also that you know these aren't Fringe 01:18:14.679 --> 01:18:17.679 things these are Timeless kinds of kind 01:18:17.679 --> 01:18:20.280 of things that then when you try to do 01:18:20.280 --> 01:18:21.800 them again they look Fringe right 01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:24.320 because it's like who does that anymore 01:18:24.320 --> 01:18:28.480 right so that they can look bizarre when 01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:31.760 they're resurrected inside Modern Life 01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:34.040 but these are interesting questions 01:18:34.040 --> 01:18:37.159 about the human 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:42.239 condition and anyways lyric 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:45.280 culture she she she talks a lot about 01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:48.280 Domesticity in this way has a it can 01:18:48.280 --> 01:18:49.760 feel like a 01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:51.920 throwback 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.920 um 01:18:55.400 --> 01:19:00.080 the solution can feel so trivial and so 01:19:00.080 --> 01:19:02.080 simple that you're almost too 01:19:02.080 --> 01:19:05.120 embarrassed to suggest it like you know 01:19:05.120 --> 01:19:07.840 like I want to revolutionize pizza or 01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:10.440 whatever and then you find that the 01:19:10.440 --> 01:19:13.199 certain kind of energy can draw in can 01:19:13.199 --> 01:19:15.560 transform an Old Village you know and 01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:17.600 can remake society 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:20.600 and 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:23.320 yeah but I agree with you there's a lot 01:19:23.320 --> 01:19:25.000 of that kind of stuff happening not 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.639 everyone not every initiative gets 01:19:29.639 --> 01:19:32.800 viral on YouTube and then gets like a 01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:38.000 bunch of airbnbs around it but I think 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:41.480 that having a strong Center could be an 01:19:41.480 --> 01:19:44.920 educational thing it could be a a farm 01:19:44.920 --> 01:19:49.080 thing it could be a dance Community um 01:19:49.080 --> 01:19:52.920 as a center um and then operate along 01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:55.159 some of these convivial ways of being 01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:58.120 these trust networks and yeah building 01:19:58.120 --> 01:20:00.560 it out from there I think this these 01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:03.120 things are 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:24.760 possible 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:36.560 Bonnie I thought I saw catala raise her 01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:40.159 hand maybe it was 01:20:40.199 --> 01:20:43.679 inadvertent you may be 01:20:51.719 --> 01:20:54.719 oppression 01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:39.800 you know one of the things that is 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:42.520 common with if you think of the 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:47.480 Jazz culture as it emerges or this pizza 01:21:47.480 --> 01:21:49.800 culture 01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:51.960 um they're they're certainly not 01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:53.600 established 01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:56.520 on the premise to make money I mean over 01:21:56.520 --> 01:21:59.000 time they become you know co-opted in 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:02.000 big deals and stuff but 01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:04.840 um people just make sacri they they're 01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:07.400 just so in love with the pursuit of 01:22:07.400 --> 01:22:12.080 something um and as you guys said and if 01:22:12.080 --> 01:22:14.600 you take a really hard right turn into 01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:15.679 being 01:22:15.679 --> 01:22:18.960 that in love with a pursuit of something 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:22.199 then you like JK Rollins you know you 01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:24.560 get really poor and you your 01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:26.920 relationships suffer all these all these 01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:31.600 standard ways of being actually stuer 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:35.800 suffer and 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:54.560 um 01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:08.159 there's a lot of Secrets too you're 01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:10.159 never gonna find out how he makes his 01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:13.679 pizza I hope you realize 01:23:21.480 --> 01:23:24.480 this 01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.159 yeah that's actually that's really 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:30.520 interesting I've been working at Joe for 01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:32.199 a couple of years now and I've learned a 01:23:32.199 --> 01:23:35.520 little bit and then eating this eating 01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:37.719 this guy's food I realized that there's 01:23:37.719 --> 01:23:41.360 no way not only can I learn it I don't 01:23:41.360 --> 01:23:42.840 want to learn 01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:46.159 it it's like I don't want to own 01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:49.360 that it it was such a gift to be on the 01:23:49.360 --> 01:23:51.480 receiving end of 01:23:51.480 --> 01:23:54.480 it 01:23:59.080 --> 01:24:01.159 and a lot of those what's in common with 01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:03.120 a lot of these things is you know bread 01:24:03.120 --> 01:24:06.120 is complex because it it's if it's yeast 01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:08.960 based it's a it's alive I mean you're 01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.600 working with a living 01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:15.199 system and these people they they wine 01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:19.840 is the same way they relate to the life 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:21.360 force of the 01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:24.360 thing 01:24:25.360 --> 01:24:27.719 which is subject to responsiveness to 01:24:27.719 --> 01:24:31.320 the environment you know and and the way 01:24:31.320 --> 01:24:34.080 you move your hands and on and on and on 01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:35.040 and 01:24:35.040 --> 01:24:38.040 on 01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:45.880 um 01:24:51.360 --> 01:24:54.360 yeah 01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:11.440 you hear that dog crying in the 01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:14.760 background oh 01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:23.920 good he's on the porch and he wants to 01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:25.760 go in the house and Sandy can't hear him 01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:30.040 so he sounds like he sounds like this is 01:25:30.040 --> 01:25:35.719 poor abused animal outside my 01:25:37.360 --> 01:25:39.880 window Bonnie are you back in your 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:42.360 studio 01:25:42.360 --> 01:25:45.360 yes yes I have a whole new setup so 01:25:45.360 --> 01:25:47.159 we're gonna have some fun things I'm 01:25:47.159 --> 01:25:51.520 trying to set it up so we can have like 01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:53.719 a half it won't be here it'll be over 01:25:53.719 --> 01:25:55.600 there and there'll be like because I 01:25:55.600 --> 01:25:57.239 have all these visitors coming in 01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:59.520 November and that we could have some 01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:03.239 sessions where we stream live to the 01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:04.400 popup 01:26:04.400 --> 01:26:07.199 school um so you I can't do it now 01:26:07.199 --> 01:26:08.639 because I'm not sure I to do it but this 01:26:08.639 --> 01:26:12.639 camera can go whyde can you know have 01:26:12.639 --> 01:26:14.440 see around I'm trying to make a little 01:26:14.440 --> 01:26:20.119 schedule huh so so 01:26:20.119 --> 01:26:24.440 um yeah that's trying to set it up um it 01:26:24.440 --> 01:26:26.679 was very frustrating trying to set up 01:26:26.679 --> 01:26:29.880 this station because it's it's powered 01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:32.840 by a Microsoft Surface Pro which is a 01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:34.480 pretty good 01:26:34.480 --> 01:26:37.440 processor um but it's old generation so 01:26:37.440 --> 01:26:40.600 all the the hookups and the ports are 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:43.679 different I mean it was just crazy 01:26:43.679 --> 01:26:46.840 how how how many things I bought that 01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:48.639 were wrong which is fine you just send 01:26:48.639 --> 01:26:52.880 them back but um I'm still um in need of 01:26:52.880 --> 01:26:55.520 one other cable and one other external 01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:57.760 speaker um but I've been trying to set 01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.199 it up 01:27:00.320 --> 01:27:04.520 so um we can have live stream events 01:27:04.520 --> 01:27:10.159 from here uh for the popup 01:27:11.040 --> 01:27:13.920 school so we do have quite a few 01:27:13.920 --> 01:27:18.639 visitors coming in November 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:24.119 um 01:27:34.679 --> 01:27:36.560 it's all right I'd like to Loop all the 01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.400 way back to something that came up when 01:27:40.400 --> 01:27:43.280 Melina was talking about Lucy the great 01:27:43.280 --> 01:27:46.679 danne and mentioned that you know in 01:27:46.679 --> 01:27:49.360 addition to dogs you know humans have 01:27:49.360 --> 01:27:53.000 bred chickens and tomatoes and and you 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:56.440 popped in with humans and I was just 01:27:56.440 --> 01:27:59.480 curious if you would elaborate on what 01:27:59.480 --> 01:28:00.960 you 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:03.679 meant um well I think what we are 01:28:03.679 --> 01:28:06.440 talking about is kind of 01:28:06.440 --> 01:28:09.760 making distorting the 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:14.040 natural the Natural Evolution of 01:28:14.040 --> 01:28:18.360 animals um uh selectively distorting 01:28:18.360 --> 01:28:21.800 well we can I can go from more concrete 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.800 to more abstract so for example um what 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:29.520 when you wage war on an indigenous 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:34.360 population you get rid of all the uh 01:28:34.360 --> 01:28:36.560 most powerful men 01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:39.960 first and you end up with a passive 01:28:39.960 --> 01:28:44.520 population the opposite is happening in 01:28:44.840 --> 01:28:47.080 Palestine because what's happening in 01:28:47.080 --> 01:28:50.199 Palestine is you're selecting for 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:52.760 radicalized population 01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:55.239 because early on the the peaceful people 01:28:55.239 --> 01:28:58.159 leave and over time the population gets 01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:00.040 more 01:29:00.040 --> 01:29:04.199 radicalized it's just it's just a law of 01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:07.800 nature um so there's a lot of policies 01:29:07.800 --> 01:29:12.000 uh on a a geopolitical scale that 01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:15.400 um selectively breed there's a famous 01:29:15.400 --> 01:29:21.159 study in London about um this this about 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:22.679 bringing in 01:29:22.679 --> 01:29:25.679 immigrants and if you have immigrants 01:29:25.679 --> 01:29:29.760 and and they don't they don't um 01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:31.480 integrate well in the neighborhood the 01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:33.840 worst thing you can do is put up a wall 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:35.480 if you put up a wall the the 01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:37.600 neighborhoods become more violent they 01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:41.400 they become more violent to each other 01:29:41.400 --> 01:29:45.159 so there's there's there's a lot of uh 01:29:45.159 --> 01:29:47.320 the prison population in the US is a 01:29:47.320 --> 01:29:49.400 selective breeding 01:29:49.400 --> 01:29:52.239 program uh Reagan's war on drug drugs 01:29:52.239 --> 01:29:54.719 was a selective breeding 01:29:54.719 --> 01:29:57.840 program um basically to have more and 01:29:57.840 --> 01:30:03.480 more pacified um pacified citizenship uh 01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:07.239 China's very good at selective breeding 01:30:07.239 --> 01:30:08.960 uh programs better than the us because 01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:10.480 they have much more of a centralized 01:30:10.480 --> 01:30:13.040 government and we have Texas you know 01:30:13.040 --> 01:30:16.000 Texas is like they're crazy 01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:18.840 right um 01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:20.520 so 01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:24.600 um um so the Distortion so we so this 01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:27.440 distinction between the nature of mind 01:30:27.440 --> 01:30:30.440 and the kinds of Minds we have have so 01:30:30.440 --> 01:30:33.199 we have the nature of our minds is human 01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:35.400 mind but the kinds of Minds we have 01:30:35.400 --> 01:30:38.880 today has been selectively B bred into 01:30:38.880 --> 01:30:40.760 us 01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:44.840 um so 01:30:46.280 --> 01:30:49.280 um 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:53.840 yeah 01:30:57.320 --> 01:30:59.440 the kinds of diets we have 01:30:59.440 --> 01:31:02.920 today hormon you know hormones and the 01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:06.800 all this stuff um like what a big big 01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:09.760 selective breeding program on the west 01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:16.560 is um the um obesity and diab diabetes 01:31:16.560 --> 01:31:19.600 problem it's not natural no one 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:23.440 understands it people there's if it's 01:31:23.440 --> 01:31:25.960 not because it's you know there's so 01:31:25.960 --> 01:31:29.199 many correlations and there's this huge 01:31:29.199 --> 01:31:36.040 huge multi-year huge Cross Research 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:40.119 metaanalysis um that's very important 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:42.320 because get 01:31:42.320 --> 01:31:46.520 this the wild animals are getting fatter 01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:49.000 too so first they noticed the animals in 01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:50.360 the zoos and they were like okay 01:31:50.360 --> 01:31:52.520 processed food blah blah blah the wild 01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:55.000 animals are getting fatter 01:31:55.000 --> 01:31:56.920 too so this 01:31:56.920 --> 01:31:59.239 metaanalysis the two top things they 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:03.520 think is um obesity in animal 01:32:03.520 --> 01:32:07.000 populations and humans is always 01:32:07.000 --> 01:32:10.080 associated with lower latitudes 01:32:10.080 --> 01:32:13.960 altitudes and the and the lower 01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:16.880 watersheds there's so many 01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:20.840 anti-depressants in in in the water and 01:32:20.840 --> 01:32:23.480 steroids in the water so people that 01:32:23.480 --> 01:32:24.520 have go on 01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:27.880 anti-depressants get fat people who take 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:30.320 steroids get fat animal farm animal 01:32:30.320 --> 01:32:31.760 steroids that's why they give farm 01:32:31.760 --> 01:32:33.960 animal steroids and antibiotics because 01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:37.119 it produces weight so the problem the 01:32:37.119 --> 01:32:39.600 epidemic is because in the Watershed is 01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:42.560 what they believe now so you go on and 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:44.679 on and on about public policy and you 01:32:44.679 --> 01:32:46.679 got the diet pills and you got the fight 01:32:46.679 --> 01:32:48.360 the people who are arguing againsts and 01:32:48.360 --> 01:32:50.080 then youve got the African-Americans 01:32:50.080 --> 01:32:51.800 that happen to be in the low water shed 01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:53.320 you got all this 01:32:53.320 --> 01:32:56.560 and it's not any of those things 01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.480 it's a very very multi-dimensional 01:32:59.480 --> 01:33:04.159 complex problem that is environmental at 01:33:04.159 --> 01:33:07.119 scale so that's selective breeding the 01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:09.719 the the the culture selectively breeds 01:33:09.719 --> 01:33:12.600 for obese 01:33:12.600 --> 01:33:16.199 diabetic people like a sharpi like 01:33:16.199 --> 01:33:18.800 Sharpes you know they have really bad 01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:20.639 they're a kind of a dog and they have 01:33:20.639 --> 01:33:22.480 really bad skin problem because they 01:33:22.480 --> 01:33:27.080 have like folds and folds and folds of 01:33:27.480 --> 01:33:30.600 skin and pugs can't breathe and they 01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:31.719 can't have 01:33:31.719 --> 01:33:34.360 children because because they're so 01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:39.400 deformed so these are these are with 01:33:39.400 --> 01:33:42.040 animals uh we breed for you know the 01:33:42.040 --> 01:33:44.400 same way we build these 01:33:44.400 --> 01:33:47.280 architectures that are buildings that 01:33:47.280 --> 01:33:49.080 are not alive they're 01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:52.760 anti-life um 01:33:52.760 --> 01:33:56.880 these things are are not in service to 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:58.400 life 01:33:58.400 --> 01:34:01.400 they're 01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:05.560 yeah so one thing I've added to my 01:34:05.560 --> 01:34:08.080 dispositionality 01:34:08.080 --> 01:34:10.679 Adventures um has 01:34:10.679 --> 01:34:14.800 been um this thing from Aaron Manning 01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:18.080 was really taken on this notion of 01:34:18.080 --> 01:34:22.400 neurot typicality as systemic not 01:34:22.400 --> 01:34:25.639 individual I mean it's kind of a moving 01:34:25.639 --> 01:34:28.080 horizon line that's produced by every 01:34:28.080 --> 01:34:31.360 era so to speak and I would say with 01:34:31.360 --> 01:34:35.040 Alexander the paradigmatic of the 01:34:35.040 --> 01:34:37.239 technology and 01:34:37.239 --> 01:34:39.719 um 01:34:39.719 --> 01:34:42.000 neurodiversity 01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:46.159 um as this exploration you know without 01:34:46.159 --> 01:34:49.920 comparison where I read this book called 01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:53.639 Plankton Dreams by Au artistic author 01:34:53.639 --> 01:34:57.560 and I really recommend it because it was 01:34:57.560 --> 01:35:00.199 90 Pages it was very 01:35:00.199 --> 01:35:03.159 transformative the main character is a 01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:06.880 boy who has to go to a special needs 01:35:06.880 --> 01:35:10.000 program just to kind of help his mother 01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:13.679 who is doing workshops to explain how 01:35:13.679 --> 01:35:17.719 she works with him and he knows what 01:35:17.719 --> 01:35:21.560 he's going to be facing and he sets 01:35:21.560 --> 01:35:24.440 himself is only his own learning goals 01:35:24.440 --> 01:35:28.960 and he says so why wouldn't an autistic 01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:31.000 study neurot 01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:34.520 typicality and and it's just beautifully 01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:38.719 written with wonderful irony and 01:35:38.719 --> 01:35:43.159 satire and it just struck me that narot 01:35:43.159 --> 01:35:45.280 typicality as 01:35:45.280 --> 01:35:46.920 a 01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:52.040 um kind of almost moal you know like a 01:35:52.040 --> 01:35:53.600 luggage 01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:58.239 word could help us kind of understand 01:35:58.239 --> 01:36:00.760 how first all you can never be 01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:04.960 neurotypical enough you know whatever 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:10.679 the context demands that n Ty to 01:36:10.679 --> 01:36:13.239 be and 01:36:13.239 --> 01:36:17.159 so in relating to each person like he 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:22.040 says his name is Tito so he's Tito istic 01:36:22.040 --> 01:36:24.600 and Eileen is 01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:29.280 alistic and Bonita would be 01:36:29.280 --> 01:36:34.800 bistic you know and it's I don't know if 01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:36.560 I can 01:36:36.560 --> 01:36:40.639 articulate the kind of metamorphosis 01:36:40.639 --> 01:36:44.480 that that played but it it it has 01:36:44.480 --> 01:36:46.639 allowed me because like the owner of 01:36:46.639 --> 01:36:49.880 Lucy is kind of what would be 01:36:49.880 --> 01:36:52.760 conventionally called on the Spectrum 01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:57.119 he's kind of a polymath but you know you 01:36:57.119 --> 01:37:01.119 can't speak to him the same way as you 01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:04.280 would narot typically expect and you 01:37:04.280 --> 01:37:06.679 know we've been so playful around this 01:37:06.679 --> 01:37:10.159 whole Lucy thing partially because I'm 01:37:10.159 --> 01:37:13.760 not expecting him to really understand 01:37:13.760 --> 01:37:16.199 that for me to have this huge dog in my 01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:17.360 little 01:37:17.360 --> 01:37:21.280 studio is not a neurotypical situation 01:37:21.280 --> 01:37:23.280 and I'm having to be 01:37:23.280 --> 01:37:27.960 neurodiverse to open up to that and in 01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:29.360 that way I can have a different 01:37:29.360 --> 01:37:32.199 conversation with him and then that 01:37:32.199 --> 01:37:34.639 changes the conversation of anybody else 01:37:34.639 --> 01:37:37.000 who asks me how are you putting up with 01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:40.440 this situation of this dog that poops at 01:37:40.440 --> 01:37:45.159 3:00 a.m. and whatever and and somehow 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:50.239 that entire kind of well with the bio 01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:52.320 course that he's doing right now and 01:37:52.320 --> 01:37:54.920 with Aaron Manning they've basically 01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:59.280 come to this having narot typicality and 01:37:59.280 --> 01:38:02.960 colonialism be one of the same 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:05.760 thing which of course keeps 01:38:05.760 --> 01:38:08.639 morphing depending on whatever context 01:38:08.639 --> 01:38:14.760 you're in um so I don't know how in the 01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:19.440 popup school that would play out but for 01:38:19.440 --> 01:38:23.000 me it's been 01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:26.960 really kind of infusing humor and 01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.360 curiosity 01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:31.599 and uh 01:38:31.599 --> 01:38:34.040 suspending these other ways where 01:38:34.040 --> 01:38:36.920 entitlement sort of interferes with the 01:38:36.920 --> 01:38:40.599 ability to engage with actually what's 01:38:40.599 --> 01:38:44.239 unfolding like what about me and you 01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:46.560 know who's thinking how this is 01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:49.480 affecting me or whatever and it's like 01:38:49.480 --> 01:38:52.239 who the cares you know the self 01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:55.800 construct anyway you 01:39:03.599 --> 01:39:06.560 know yeah I mean that's a whole another 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:09.599 thing I I I I'm hoping that 01:39:09.599 --> 01:39:14.080 bio he's I believe he'll be in 01:39:14.080 --> 01:39:18.440 Massachusetts this year coming year 01:39:18.440 --> 01:39:21.440 2024 and I'm hoping he'll bring his L 01:39:21.440 --> 01:39:24.360 down to work with the 01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:26.070 horses 01:39:26.070 --> 01:39:28.159 [Music] 01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:30.040 um we'll 01:39:30.040 --> 01:39:33.560 see that would be great you know I mean 01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:37.080 he brings in are you familiar bunny with 01:39:37.080 --> 01:39:40.599 Fon D 01:39:41.639 --> 01:39:44.360 work no but I think there's a lot to 01:39:44.360 --> 01:39:47.360 explore like with bio 01:39:47.360 --> 01:39:49.800 like I wouldn't say I 01:39:49.800 --> 01:39:55.760 agree with everywhere he's going with n 01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:59.880 like colon like I like his Exile his 01:39:59.880 --> 01:40:03.159 Sanctuary um this this this is a 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:07.639 slippery slope for me to equate autism 01:40:07.639 --> 01:40:11.760 neurotypical non- neurotypical 01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:14.760 colonialism 01:40:17.080 --> 01:40:22.520 um this interesting to me but I I'm it 01:40:22.520 --> 01:40:24.599 like I want I would I would like him to 01:40:24.599 --> 01:40:27.719 slow down like these are kind 01:40:27.719 --> 01:40:31.760 of yeah 01:40:35.440 --> 01:40:39.040 um I think 01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:44.239 that I think that the envir you know the 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:47.960 the the the cultural environment and the 01:40:47.960 --> 01:40:51.920 physical environment is distorting 01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:55.080 you know it's changing people's nervous 01:40:55.080 --> 01:40:56.560 system and their 01:40:56.560 --> 01:41:00.320 brains um I don't think we 01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:04.719 can just say well that's good to think 01:41:04.719 --> 01:41:07.159 it's not good is just colonialism you 01:41:07.159 --> 01:41:09.880 know what I mean it's it's a little he's 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:12.679 a little too sweeping but he's also a 01:41:12.679 --> 01:41:17.000 poet he's not really meant to be 01:41:17.040 --> 01:41:21.760 read with this kind of lens that that 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:25.520 handy cuffs handcuffs him to literal 01:41:25.520 --> 01:41:29.000 literality So my answer to that is why 01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:30.880 don't you bring you know my answer was 01:41:30.880 --> 01:41:32.520 why don't you bring them down to work 01:41:32.520 --> 01:41:33.400 with the 01:41:33.400 --> 01:41:35.719 horses uh there's a lot 01:41:35.719 --> 01:41:39.000 of uh literature on horses working with 01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:43.239 autistic people I've worked with ADHD 01:41:43.239 --> 01:41:46.560 young people like pretty per bad you 01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:49.239 know pretty severe um but I haven't 01:41:49.239 --> 01:41:52.090 worked with an autistic person 01:41:52.090 --> 01:41:53.760 [Music] 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:56.960 um so I think something like that could 01:41:56.960 --> 01:41:59.679 help open the 01:41:59.679 --> 01:42:05.119 expiration um but that being said if the 01:42:05.119 --> 01:42:08.159 the generations are going through an 01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:10.080 environment 01:42:10.080 --> 01:42:14.360 that's changing our brains then then we 01:42:14.360 --> 01:42:16.760 have to 01:42:16.760 --> 01:42:20.119 embrace those changes I mean we are We 01:42:20.119 --> 01:42:22.520 Are Who We Are 01:42:22.520 --> 01:42:25.880 are um if we have nuclear war and 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:28.840 everybody has like tumors and radiation 01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:32.340 sickness and that's who we become we 01:42:32.340 --> 01:42:35.239 [Music] 01:42:35.239 --> 01:42:39.560 become what we interact with 01:42:40.599 --> 01:42:43.599 so 01:42:45.679 --> 01:42:49.040 yeah so you know I'm I'm 01:42:49.040 --> 01:42:52.159 still this is a a very beautiful 01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:54.400 exploration and I'm and 01:42:54.400 --> 01:42:57.880 I'm and you know I'm not sure where I 01:42:57.880 --> 01:43:01.080 overlap and where I disagree or 01:43:01.080 --> 01:43:03.400 something you know I don't I don't think 01:43:03.400 --> 01:43:06.360 it's great that people are you know 01:43:06.360 --> 01:43:08.840 pretty soon 70% of the population will 01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:12.159 be obese and have diabetes I don't I 01:43:12.159 --> 01:43:13.960 don't think that's good I don't think 01:43:13.960 --> 01:43:15.320 that you can just say well to say it's 01:43:15.320 --> 01:43:19.679 not good is just colonizing I just I 01:43:19.679 --> 01:43:21.280 just 01:43:21.280 --> 01:43:24.080 no if that's what it is that's it is 01:43:24.080 --> 01:43:26.159 that's who we are now but so I'm not 01:43:26.159 --> 01:43:28.280 saying to blame people I'm saying we 01:43:28.280 --> 01:43:33.800 actually can't blame people um but I 01:43:33.840 --> 01:43:38.360 think one of my favorite examples of 01:43:38.360 --> 01:43:41.840 that is December 01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:43.400 23rd 01:43:43.400 --> 01:43:46.599 1973 hundreds of thousands of persons 01:43:46.599 --> 01:43:48.840 were declared 01:43:48.840 --> 01:43:51.239 cured when 01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:54.199 the American Psychiatric association 01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:58.719 took homosexuality off the 01:44:03.280 --> 01:44:06.760 DSM yeah but I don't think this is a a 01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:10.320 similar situation 01:44:10.320 --> 01:44:12.760 because 01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:15.760 homosexuality uh PE people related to 01:44:15.760 --> 01:44:18.199 homosexuality like it was a 01:44:18.199 --> 01:44:20.719 novel neuroatypical 01:44:20.719 --> 01:44:22.480 thing that happened 01:44:22.480 --> 01:44:25.440 recently homosexuality has been 01:44:25.440 --> 01:44:27.880 practiced by cultures Forever 01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:31.360 Until American Catholic protestantism 01:44:31.360 --> 01:44:35.280 declared it a sin I mean it's not like 01:44:35.280 --> 01:44:38.119 and that was the mistake people thought 01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:40.639 oh the culture is getting so you know 01:44:40.639 --> 01:44:43.440 perverse and this and that but it was 01:44:43.440 --> 01:44:46.040 only much more recently that it became a 01:44:46.040 --> 01:44:48.880 problem than the fact that it was 01:44:48.880 --> 01:44:51.159 happening right so 01:44:51.159 --> 01:44:54.320 so we're talking about autism is very 01:44:54.320 --> 01:44:55.520 very 01:44:55.520 --> 01:44:59.080 recent truly a recent 01:44:59.080 --> 01:45:02.040 phenomenon uh ADHD we don't know but 01:45:02.040 --> 01:45:05.159 ADHD is something that could be more 01:45:05.159 --> 01:45:08.560 structural um but we don't know whereas 01:45:08.560 --> 01:45:11.119 homosexuality was not a 01:45:11.119 --> 01:45:15.480 recent cultural emergence it it was the 01:45:15.480 --> 01:45:17.920 fact that people thought homosexuality 01:45:17.920 --> 01:45:21.560 was weird was actually a recent 01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:26.599 invention a novel invention by Western 01:45:26.840 --> 01:45:31.440 Catholics abortion is not a new fad 01:45:31.440 --> 01:45:34.920 people have been infanti infanto what is 01:45:34.920 --> 01:45:36.960 it called infanticide has been around in 01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:38.320 cultures 01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:41.280 forever so this is this 01:45:41.280 --> 01:45:43.880 is you know what you see what I'm saying 01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:46.880 there're these things are not new autism 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:50.599 I believe is quite or the or the the the 01:45:50.599 --> 01:45:52.920 incidence of obesity the incidence of 01:45:52.920 --> 01:45:57.760 diabetes the incidence of autism is 01:45:58.040 --> 01:46:01.639 new it's something 01:46:01.639 --> 01:46:05.400 new it just just is it's not something 01:46:05.400 --> 01:46:08.119 we pretended wasn't in the human system 01:46:08.119 --> 01:46:10.719 for a long time and 01:46:10.719 --> 01:46:16.239 now uh we're changing our minds about 01:46:19.280 --> 01:46:23.440 it yeah I can say I've 01:46:23.440 --> 01:46:27.239 um you know dug deep into it but I've I 01:46:27.239 --> 01:46:30.000 don't know because of the monetization 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:32.960 of any kind of division whether it's 01:46:32.960 --> 01:46:37.520 along gender class race lines you know 01:46:37.520 --> 01:46:40.400 it's it's just automatic because of the 01:46:40.400 --> 01:46:43.119 click and bait I mean it's not even like 01:46:43.119 --> 01:46:47.440 an ideological war it's just talk about 01:46:47.440 --> 01:46:49.239 aggregor 01:46:49.239 --> 01:46:53.480 um and and so I found that this notion 01:46:53.480 --> 01:46:56.880 of neurot typicality as a 01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:01.679 systemic way of designating a 01:47:01.679 --> 01:47:04.920 mechanism that 01:47:05.360 --> 01:47:09.840 says this is good that's bad or in 01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:16.199 degrees um might be a way to not fall 01:47:16.199 --> 01:47:18.480 into the 01:47:18.480 --> 01:47:22.320 polarizations that are so 01:47:22.599 --> 01:47:27.000 exploited so easily in this agregan kind 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:30.360 of way that just pches like 01:47:30.360 --> 01:47:34.040 toire I'm going to post in the in in the 01:47:34.040 --> 01:47:38.280 popup schroll an absolutely mindboggling 01:47:38.280 --> 01:47:40.480 performance of Kevin 01:47:40.480 --> 01:47:46.239 spacy of um a piece from Shakespeare's 01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:50.400 um tus I think it's the name and and and 01:47:50.400 --> 01:47:53.800 it's like Shakespeare and cancel culture 01:47:53.800 --> 01:47:56.239 and I mean the man's been exonerated out 01:47:56.239 --> 01:47:59.360 of absolutely every 01:47:59.360 --> 01:48:01.280 accusation every 01:48:01.280 --> 01:48:05.679 trial um declared innocent and yet you 01:48:05.679 --> 01:48:08.560 know this is the first time he's really 01:48:08.560 --> 01:48:12.960 invited to to to to to be present with 01:48:12.960 --> 01:48:17.480 what he has to offer and it's really 01:48:17.480 --> 01:48:19.760 really I had to watch it like three or 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:22.920 four times it was so powerful I'll post 01:48:22.920 --> 01:48:26.920 it um but I I would like if you haven't 01:48:26.920 --> 01:48:29.719 heard of him 01:48:29.719 --> 01:48:33.320 f um because this is you know he started 01:48:33.320 --> 01:48:37.159 right after second world war um I I'll 01:48:37.159 --> 01:48:40.440 post something right now on him because 01:48:40.440 --> 01:48:42.320 I I don't know I just have this 01:48:42.320 --> 01:48:44.239 intuition that you're going to see 01:48:44.239 --> 01:48:49.360 something there that um connects with 01:48:49.360 --> 01:48:51.000 some of the work you're 01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:54.480 doing there's not a lot translated 01:48:54.480 --> 01:48:58.080 unfortunately but I think you'll get a 01:48:58.080 --> 01:48:59.920 sense 01:48:59.920 --> 01:49:01.440 of 01:49:01.440 --> 01:49:04.760 um because nobody was working with 01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.639 autism you know 01:49:07.639 --> 01:49:10.960 1962 and he spent 30 01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:12.480 years 01:49:12.480 --> 01:49:18.199 with so-called autistic kids um without 01:49:18.199 --> 01:49:22.119 any of this institutional 01:49:22.560 --> 01:49:25.880 um yeah I I think there's something and 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:28.599 I think you can probably pick something 01:49:28.599 --> 01:49:30.560 from this 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:34.560 that um I I don't 01:49:34.560 --> 01:49:38.080 have it's not what I 01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.360 do I'm 01:49:47.960 --> 01:49:52.119 here I have something to say 01:49:52.840 --> 01:49:55.679 say oh my God was that the same thing 01:49:55.679 --> 01:49:58.840 you were working on the other day yep oh 01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:01.159 my God got little 01:50:01.159 --> 01:50:04.520 ears and uh it's 01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:07.520 done that was fast I 01:50:07.520 --> 01:50:10.400 mean well well it's not fast because you 01:50:10.400 --> 01:50:12.639 had you were working forever to se it 01:50:12.639 --> 01:50:15.480 together it was intense because I 01:50:15.480 --> 01:50:18.320 whatever but anyways I finished the baby 01:50:18.320 --> 01:50:22.040 hasn't come yet but 01:50:23.960 --> 01:50:25.470 that's so 01:50:25.470 --> 01:50:27.360 [Music] 01:50:27.360 --> 01:50:31.199 cute that would fit my 01:50:37.639 --> 01:50:42.040 dog my hood was way out of proportion 01:50:42.040 --> 01:50:45.760 because it's a seed Stitch yeah and I 01:50:45.760 --> 01:50:47.719 get I get kind of loose in the seed 01:50:47.719 --> 01:50:52.040 Stitch Department yeah 01:50:53.599 --> 01:50:57.320 anyways they liked it that's all that 01:50:57.320 --> 01:50:59.639 matters how when's the due date pretty 01:50:59.639 --> 01:51:02.079 soon right tomorrow 01:51:02.079 --> 01:51:05.239 tomorrow yeah oh so right on time look 01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:08.520 at that 01:51:08.599 --> 01:51:11.520 yep y I just realized you could use 01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:15.760 these to knit well there you 01:51:16.079 --> 01:51:18.920 go I always can you hear that my mother 01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:22.880 used to KN I just that that noise it's 01:51:22.880 --> 01:51:24.760 very comforting you would watch TV and 01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:27.040 she'd be 01:51:27.040 --> 01:51:30.040 like 01:51:31.239 --> 01:51:33.639 yeah it's a funny thing because I 01:51:33.639 --> 01:51:36.520 thought it would be kind of a 01:51:36.520 --> 01:51:40.040 mellow exercise kind of like put me in 01:51:40.040 --> 01:51:42.480 kind of an open space but it's actually 01:51:42.480 --> 01:51:45.400 a very linear exercise yeah and I 01:51:45.400 --> 01:51:48.159 noticed that it it keeps me especially 01:51:48.159 --> 01:51:49.599 if I have a pattern that I'm trying to 01:51:49.599 --> 01:51:50.599 follow 01:51:50.599 --> 01:51:53.520 kind of keeps me in a focused place and 01:51:53.520 --> 01:51:58.960 not a more diffused place so uh I it's a 01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:01.400 it's a real 01:52:01.400 --> 01:52:05.360 um gift of time to that kind of purpose 01:52:05.360 --> 01:52:08.000 yeah that's a discipline it's a 01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:09.159 discipline 01:52:09.159 --> 01:52:11.480 yeah I don't know how much more knitting 01:52:11.480 --> 01:52:14.119 I'm gonna do but it was really helpful 01:52:14.119 --> 01:52:15.520 to listen to 01:52:15.520 --> 01:52:18.400 matalina and to do this because I had to 01:52:18.400 --> 01:52:20.520 redo the binding because I made it too 01:52:20.520 --> 01:52:23.679 tight and because if if the conversation 01:52:23.679 --> 01:52:26.000 gets outside of what I can really fully 01:52:26.000 --> 01:52:30.280 get yeah it gave me something to okay 01:52:30.280 --> 01:52:33.119 I'm doing something that I understand 01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:35.440 here yeah and it's like it's like when 01:52:35.440 --> 01:52:37.880 you're a kids and there's conversation 01:52:37.880 --> 01:52:40.280 that you don't understand but the the 01:52:40.280 --> 01:52:43.119 lyrical right the the there's something 01:52:43.119 --> 01:52:45.599 about 01:52:45.599 --> 01:52:49.079 hearing the adults laughing and then Qui 01:52:49.079 --> 01:52:50.760 you know there's something about it that 01:52:50.760 --> 01:52:53.199 still is a transmission I would say that 01:52:53.199 --> 01:52:55.119 was Kimberly was saying there's 01:52:55.119 --> 01:52:59.520 something very social about it um and in 01:52:59.520 --> 01:53:02.920 fact uh we had this Workshop here a 01:53:02.920 --> 01:53:06.880 couple of the end of last month and you 01:53:06.880 --> 01:53:08.599 know I was really tired we worked really 01:53:08.599 --> 01:53:10.040 hard to clean up the place get the 01:53:10.040 --> 01:53:11.679 horses ready and then we had all these 01:53:11.679 --> 01:53:15.400 people here and at lunch you know I just 01:53:15.400 --> 01:53:17.560 kind of like spaced out and there was 01:53:17.560 --> 01:53:19.440 all these people here and there was all 01:53:19.440 --> 01:53:21.920 these conversations happening and it was 01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:24.960 fun just to space out and 01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:27.760 just 01:53:27.760 --> 01:53:32.280 experience the life that was there and 01:53:32.280 --> 01:53:35.239 literally I was so brain de I had 01:53:35.239 --> 01:53:38.320 no ability to enter a convers you know I 01:53:38.320 --> 01:53:41.000 could see oh there's Zach and stuff's 01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:43.000 happening over there and but I didn't 01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:44.159 have 01:53:44.159 --> 01:53:47.960 any impulse to figure out what was 01:53:47.960 --> 01:53:51.760 happening you know um 01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:07.199 plus everybody was a lot younger than me 01:54:07.199 --> 01:54:08.960 and I was 01:54:08.960 --> 01:54:10.740 like I like the 01:54:10.740 --> 01:54:13.819 [Music] 01:54:18.679 --> 01:54:20.760 grandma 01:54:20.760 --> 01:54:22.920 that's why I usually invite Sandra to 01:54:22.920 --> 01:54:25.320 these things and it's 01:54:25.320 --> 01:54:31.280 like have to be only 01:54:34.719 --> 01:54:37.719 Elder me and David will hold down the 01:54:37.719 --> 01:54:42.560 Elder seat yeah well we're not good at 01:54:42.560 --> 01:54:45.119 it I'll tell okay I'll tell a joke 01:54:45.119 --> 01:54:46.520 you're not old 01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:49.800 enough no but let me tell the story we 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:51.639 were in this Parallax course right on 01:54:51.639 --> 01:54:53.400 the convivial 01:54:53.400 --> 01:54:56.440 society and in one of the campfires we 01:54:56.440 --> 01:54:59.560 had this young guy in his wife who were 01:54:59.560 --> 01:55:02.960 very intelligent had a lot of energy had 01:55:02.960 --> 01:55:05.480 a lot of things to 01:55:05.480 --> 01:55:08.360 say and they were they 01:55:08.360 --> 01:55:11.960 were talkers like they could talk for 20 01:55:11.960 --> 01:55:14.880 25 minutes on and on and on and not 01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:17.000 realize 01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:20.920 that they they weren't talking to anyone 01:55:20.920 --> 01:55:22.840 like 01:55:22.840 --> 01:55:26.280 um and and they were like they were like 01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.159 the Smothers Brothers because when he'd 01:55:28.159 --> 01:55:31.000 get tired as soon as he'd get like have 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:34.199 a little break she'd start you know and 01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:37.719 then he'd get real energize so 01:55:37.719 --> 01:55:41.760 so um so the David and Sandra and I run 01:55:41.760 --> 01:55:46.199 that call and after that he got finished 01:55:46.199 --> 01:55:50.920 at one point he's he's finished and then 01:55:50.920 --> 01:55:53.440 David and Sandra I think it was first 01:55:53.440 --> 01:55:56.199 David maybe or first Sandra they both 01:55:56.199 --> 01:55:58.239 did their thing you know when David does 01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:00.440 something and he like really touches Bas 01:56:00.440 --> 01:56:01.840 with someone and the tone of the 01:56:01.840 --> 01:56:03.840 conversation changes the way Phoebe did 01:56:03.840 --> 01:56:05.400 it last 01:56:05.400 --> 01:56:08.480 time and then Sandra said one of the 01:56:08.480 --> 01:56:12.840 things like one of her things that like 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:14.840 really 01:56:14.840 --> 01:56:17.639 lands and the energy came up in this 01:56:17.639 --> 01:56:19.000 young guy and he's like blah blah blah 01:56:19.000 --> 01:56:20.320 blah blah blah you know we don't have 01:56:20.320 --> 01:56:22.119 any Elders we don't have any 01:56:22.119 --> 01:56:25.360 Elders it just went on and on and on 01:56:25.360 --> 01:56:28.840 it's like like they did this this this 01:56:28.840 --> 01:56:30.679 huge like love 01:56:30.679 --> 01:56:33.719 bomb insightful Elder thing and then 01:56:33.719 --> 01:56:36.000 then as soon as they started going on he 01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:37.840 just complained that there was no Elders 01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:40.760 in society anymore so the next time he 01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:42.920 wasn't there and we we were all trying 01:56:42.920 --> 01:56:43.840 to 01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:48.040 deconstruct uh why we were such 01:56:48.040 --> 01:56:50.880 failures at show showing off as showing 01:56:50.880 --> 01:56:54.760 up as Elders it was extremely uh obvious 01:56:54.760 --> 01:56:56.920 that we had 01:56:56.920 --> 01:56:59.920 failed 01:57:08.800 --> 01:57:13.040 yeah yeah I really wanted to know what 01:57:13.040 --> 01:57:18.440 like what's an elder for him you know 01:57:18.440 --> 01:57:22.639 it's like it's very curious I don't know 01:57:22.639 --> 01:57:25.000 I it's it's I know that most people 01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:27.639 don't think they they eliminate from 01:57:27.639 --> 01:57:30.760 that category white 01:57:30.760 --> 01:57:34.840 people um so they often think Elders are 01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:37.040 like dressed in indigenous clothes and 01:57:37.040 --> 01:57:41.239 have lots of like dark skin and Crags on 01:57:41.239 --> 01:57:42.280 their 01:57:42.280 --> 01:57:44.800 faces 01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:49.239 um uh because one time I went on Twitter 01:57:49.239 --> 01:57:51.400 and people were like we don't have any 01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:53.400 elders and I named a bunch of women that 01:57:53.400 --> 01:57:54.960 I thought were elders and they're like 01:57:54.960 --> 01:57:56.920 they're all white you know like all 01:57:56.920 --> 01:57:59.159 right whatever it I guess white 01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:01.320 people can't be 01:58:01.320 --> 01:58:05.119 Elders I get it so that could have been 01:58:05.119 --> 01:58:07.560 you know and I mean white people were 01:58:07.560 --> 01:58:09.400 saying that white people can't be Elders 01:58:09.400 --> 01:58:11.400 so I think that might have been part of 01:58:11.400 --> 01:58:13.520 the 01:58:16.320 --> 01:58:21.320 reason I'll for Success next time 01:58:23.400 --> 01:58:26.239 time I mean Elder means you're going to 01:58:26.239 --> 01:58:28.800 die and you know 01:58:28.800 --> 01:58:33.400 it what's to argue about that I mean 01:58:33.400 --> 01:58:36.040 like eldership you know Elders eldership 01:58:36.040 --> 01:58:38.400 the role of the Elder in 01:58:38.400 --> 01:58:40.560 society you you don't even have to be 01:58:40.560 --> 01:58:43.199 old to be I don't know I don't know what 01:58:43.199 --> 01:58:45.199 they were talking about I thought I it 01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:48.599 was just odd that after these two people 01:58:48.599 --> 01:58:51.599 who like know how to I mean they're not 01:58:51.599 --> 01:58:54.760 performing and and and usually people 01:58:54.760 --> 01:58:56.920 get it was followed by a diet trab that 01:58:56.920 --> 01:58:59.280 there was no El Elders in 01:58:59.280 --> 01:59:01.840 society I just thought well I can 01:59:01.840 --> 01:59:03.960 understand that we've become sort of 01:59:03.960 --> 01:59:08.440 death phobic and aging puic and I mean I 01:59:08.440 --> 01:59:11.440 sort of shock people by saying you know 01:59:11.440 --> 01:59:12.960 this is what I'm doing now is 01:59:12.960 --> 01:59:14.920 apprenticing to become an 01:59:14.920 --> 01:59:19.079 elder um and and it's not easy in in the 01:59:19.079 --> 01:59:22.440 way because it's like oh okay the 60s 01:59:22.440 --> 01:59:25.599 then new 50 and 7s then you whatever and 01:59:25.599 --> 01:59:31.320 I'm like no I want the age I am okay you 01:59:31.320 --> 01:59:35.400 know but I'm not interested in these you 01:59:35.400 --> 01:59:37.040 know 01:59:37.040 --> 01:59:40.599 substitutions um but it's it's not easy 01:59:40.599 --> 01:59:42.560 to do it maybe that's what they were 01:59:42.560 --> 01:59:43.639 talking 01:59:43.639 --> 01:59:45.960 about that's not the point the point was 01:59:45.960 --> 01:59:49.400 that David and Sandra were exemplary 01:59:49.400 --> 01:59:50.920 just moments 01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:54.320 before and then then he ends up and we 01:59:54.320 --> 01:59:57.440 were just laughing at ourselves because 01:59:57.440 --> 02:00:01.239 like okay well we must not be showing up 02:00:01.239 --> 02:00:06.320 and I don't know anyways um so we had 02:00:06.320 --> 02:00:09.159 like another rambling conversation today 02:00:09.159 --> 02:00:13.679 um but hopefully it was useful um and uh 02:00:13.679 --> 02:00:15.960 we'll be back on 02:00:15.960 --> 02:00:20.400 Saturday and um maybe I'll try 02:00:20.400 --> 02:00:23.320 to I'll be back in my other office and 02:00:23.320 --> 02:00:27.880 I'll share some maybe some more content 02:00:27.880 --> 02:00:30.440 um is Saturday the last one no because 02:00:30.440 --> 02:00:33.079 then we have another Thursday so we can 02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:35.199 ramble on next 02:00:35.199 --> 02:00:38.079 Thursday um if that's what we need to do 02:00:38.079 --> 02:00:40.440 thank you very much 02:00:40.440 --> 02:00:45.040 all um for helping Phoebe 02:00:45.040 --> 02:00:49.199 finish her knitting it was a good job we 02:00:49.199 --> 02:00:51.920 we held the space for her to cross the 02:00:51.920 --> 02:00:56.280 finish line so I feel like that's 02:00:59.560 --> 02:01:02.560 success ## Cohort 5 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.840 okay we are going to go into a breakout 00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:14.400 group 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:19.039 shortly um but I wanted to first see if 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.439 there were any questions clarifying 00:00:22.439 --> 00:00:24.960 questions 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:28.880 confusions uh around what we've been 00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:30.800 kind of talking about has been very 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:31.800 loose 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:35.440 module uh not quite sure I could 00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:39.239 summarize it myself 00:00:39.239 --> 00:00:40.840 um 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.719 yeah 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:47.239 um is there any any any entry point to 00:00:47.239 --> 00:00:51.840 that to uh today through a question or 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:53.600 something you've been thinking 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.920 about yes 00:00:57.800 --> 00:01:01.920 David welcome Xavier 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:04.920 I thought that was savior but I didn't 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:07.400 want to be 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:15.520 wrong like if it was like some kind of 00:01:15.520 --> 00:01:19.159 cultural FAA you know okay so I I can I 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:20.780 can share something 00:01:20.780 --> 00:01:21.840 [Music] 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:27.040 good I was with somebody yesterday last 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:31.799 night who um someone here 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.079 knows and yeah 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:39.240 you and his 00:01:39.240 --> 00:01:42.640 daughter so somebody not quite my age 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.000 and his 20 year old daughter who's a 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:48.600 Performing 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:51.600 Artist 00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:57.200 and what I want to relate 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.840 is that these 20s something 00:02:07.119 --> 00:02:10.759 beings and the music they generate and 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.239 dive 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:19.160 into I found myself in the middle 00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:22.239 of and kind 00:02:22.239 --> 00:02:27.200 of available but holding myself 00:02:27.200 --> 00:02:33.720 back and then what happen over a bit of 00:02:36.440 --> 00:02:39.560 time there was a magnetic 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:42.159 attraction for my 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:45.599 body to the way they perform this 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.519 electronic rock and roll these days it 00:02:50.519 --> 00:02:54.400 includes what I'm going to name that was 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:57.319 attractive to 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.760 me Frenzy 00:03:08.760 --> 00:03:11.640 ecstasy and just listening to the tune 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:15.080 you played I was attracted to the 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:19.360 words but in that space and with that 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.040 music the words were 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:24.760 secondary the way they moved their 00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:27.959 bodies was what drew me in is that 00:03:27.959 --> 00:03:31.239 frenzied ecstasy M and I think that has 00:03:31.239 --> 00:03:37.879 something to do with this novel culture 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.319 that we the popup School are 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.680 investigating 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.919 I'm not good with going on two screens 00:04:25.919 --> 00:04:28.600 when I'm in the popup school so who is 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.600 that 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:38.240 it's it's a music 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.800 video video I thought it was gonna be a 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:46.039 video D dancing and frenzy 00:04:46.039 --> 00:04:49.120 ecstasy um you know it reminds me of 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:53.199 layman's term excess numinous energy 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.360 right 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.560 um excess numinous 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.560 energy 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.720 which he Associates with spiritual 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:08.360 spirituality and 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:10.280 Shamano 00:05:10.280 --> 00:05:13.280 cultures 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.600 um I think you know I wrote this down 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.479 something that is doing nature is also 00:05:28.479 --> 00:05:31.479 doing culture 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.880 um not quite sure what I mean by 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.919 it yeah I mean I think it's like it's 00:05:45.919 --> 00:05:51.120 like we have this mental 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:56.280 model we have this mental model and then 00:05:56.280 --> 00:05:59.479 we enact it or vice versa or it's all 00:05:59.479 --> 00:06:03.319 all one movement where at one point you 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:08.120 know at some point people had a story of 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:10.720 themselves I've said this I think four 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.599 times 00:06:11.599 --> 00:06:16.759 already um and the story of themselves 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.360 was like a cosmological story like the 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.520 cosmos is creating the animals and 00:06:21.520 --> 00:06:24.479 create and and creating people and it's 00:06:24.479 --> 00:06:27.599 creating the mountains and is moving the 00:06:27.599 --> 00:06:31.400 oceans it's like one 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.280 orchestrated chorus right and then we at 00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:42.039 some point have this story 00:06:42.039 --> 00:06:45.960 where nature gets created in the 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:49.880 past and then we have a new story of 00:06:49.880 --> 00:06:52.759 people and their 00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:56.280 culture and Nature's kind of just like 00:06:56.280 --> 00:06:58.160 yes it's climate changes and there's 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:00.720 volcanoes and stuff 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.800 but it it it's no longer seen as having 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.280 a story right so we talk about Genesis 00:07:08.280 --> 00:07:12.080 you you got six days or five days and 00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:15.800 everything in the cosmos is made and 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:16.800 there's 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:18.360 no 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:22.440 um nothing said about it even though 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:24.240 there was millions and millions of 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.160 cosmological myths prior to you know 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:30.680 writing Genesis there's just no 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.039 there's no exploration around it it's 00:07:33.039 --> 00:07:35.000 just okay then and 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.199 then Adam and Eve and then now we have a 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:40.360 story right Adam and Eve and the garden 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:42.840 of Ed and the snake and can't now we 00:07:42.840 --> 00:07:47.440 have a story and it's like like this 00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:52.560 this this this signature the singularity 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:54.919 in time 00:07:54.919 --> 00:07:58.159 when the stories the origin stories 00:07:58.159 --> 00:08:00.919 people told of themselves V was separate 00:08:00.919 --> 00:08:04.599 from the origins of of the 00:08:04.599 --> 00:08:06.960 universe 00:08:06.960 --> 00:08:09.960 and 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.680 um as if the fact that we're moving 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.400 around the sun which is moving through 00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:26.039 the Galaxy which is moving around one of 00:08:26.039 --> 00:08:28.240 these streams in 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:30.400 l 00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:33.880 doesn't isn't part of our story you know 00:08:33.880 --> 00:08:36.599 that that's just over there and culture 00:08:36.599 --> 00:08:37.640 is over 00:08:37.640 --> 00:08:41.800 here and 00:08:41.800 --> 00:08:44.519 um when you think of frenzy would you 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:46.800 say frenzy ecstasy this is something 00:08:46.800 --> 00:08:50.200 more like you would see in a nuclear 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.480 fusion reaction or something you know 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.800 something that's that's 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.480 not and then the other thing that I 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.279 think is interesting is that each 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:03.760 generation music is often and 00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:05.320 performance and 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.279 art is often 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.880 this this stream in culture that they 00:09:12.880 --> 00:09:14.519 call 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.959 counterculture right why is that Counter 00:09:16.959 --> 00:09:18.480 Culture it means like you have like 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.320 these all these counter cultures and 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:22.959 then you have this thing that's 00:09:22.959 --> 00:09:25.440 continuous called culture or whatever 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.120 what does that what does that 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.120 mean 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:45.240 Bonnie I'm always amazed by um sort of 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.760 the threads of things that come together 00:09:48.760 --> 00:09:51.959 that relate to the popup school and 00:09:51.959 --> 00:09:53.640 first I want to know I I don't know 00:09:53.640 --> 00:09:55.920 whether you're Whitehead's daughter or 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:58.120 his 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:03.399 grandmother not B old I watched that I I 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.640 finished watching with Alexander Bard oh 00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:10.560 my God that was that was quite a thing 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:14.640 um but this morning I get stuff from my 00:10:14.640 --> 00:10:18.640 public library and what came up was a 00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:22.360 book called the land's wild 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.839 music and it's all about 00:10:25.839 --> 00:10:31.040 lyrical relationships with the land 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:37.519 it's a sort of a collection of um essays 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.360 by Mark Tre 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:44.240 trenck who's seems to live in Australia 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:47.079 I I just very briefly got a quick look 00:10:47.079 --> 00:10:50.880 online at it and he visits with Barry 00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:53.240 Lopez Terry Tempest 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:56.040 Williams um Mark 00:10:56.040 --> 00:10:59.920 the or uh what's his name 00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:04.880 the Tibetan Guy and um someone else and 00:11:04.880 --> 00:11:07.440 just quickly scrolling through the 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.240 online version the word lyric is 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:15.320 everywhere really so it just you know is 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:18.480 such an affirmation for me that what 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.360 we're doing here 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:25.320 is pulling things together that belong 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.440 together oh yeah because of Alexander 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:29.519 Bard because he had he kept saying 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.959 Mythos but then did you see what he was 00:11:31.959 --> 00:11:35.440 doing yes and I'm like then then I said 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.680 no well I have a new word and I was a 00:11:38.680 --> 00:11:41.800 little worried that 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:45.880 that I was I was a little worried that 00:11:45.880 --> 00:11:47.680 he was gonna get stuck in the sand 00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:49.279 around it being a Mythos because you 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.120 know he's written like five books and 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.560 stuff like that but but what he was 00:11:53.560 --> 00:11:57.079 doing with his body wasn't like what is 00:11:57.079 --> 00:11:59.360 usually under know the archetype and all 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.279 the symbology and stuff in the 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:06.360 Mythos he was doing you know anyways he 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:09.399 loved the word which I thought was very 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:15.040 very useful you know um useful um for 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:19.720 for that word to spread you know 00:12:23.040 --> 00:12:25.680 um something happened in the Mythic I 00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:27.720 mean I wrote this down and I I actually 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.720 have extremely ACC ademic citation that 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:32.399 I won't bore you with but it'll come out 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.760 in the series on lyric culture next year 00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:40.160 um but something happened in the Mythic 00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:42.079 the Mythic is uh you know so we have the 00:12:42.079 --> 00:12:44.680 somatic culture has something to do with 00:12:44.680 --> 00:12:45.680 how we 00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:49.800 share we keep our shared identity going 00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:51.519 and 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.440 um and 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:59.120 um and we reduce the I I would say we do 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.320 two things we keep our shared identity 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.360 going and that's from like a top- down 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:08.040 perspective and the other 00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:10.480 um 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:15.279 uh oh that's cute danan wild 00:13:15.560 --> 00:13:18.480 music you gotta keep 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.880 that um how so from a topown perspective 00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:26.920 how we keep the shared identity going 00:13:26.920 --> 00:13:29.600 and from the and but also from the 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:34.639 individual perspective um humans um like 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.079 many other social pro-social animals 00:13:37.079 --> 00:13:40.120 this is not true for all animals um like 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:42.760 large cats there's are very there's 00:13:42.760 --> 00:13:45.399 quite a few large cats that are isolates 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:50.079 um but um we have like an existential 00:13:50.079 --> 00:13:53.680 precarity like we need to belong um 00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:55.519 there's this there's this Heart 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.000 heart-wrenching video on the web 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.160 somewhere where they show this tribe and 00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:03.320 they um only have 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.440 Spears and they they hunt and eat 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.920 giraffes and of course they can't run as 00:14:10.920 --> 00:14:13.519 fast as giraffes right but what they do 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.199 is they just keep walking after them 00:14:16.199 --> 00:14:20.759 until um until something happens like 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.720 the the the this the social identity of 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.240 the giraffe starts to erode because they 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.839 get very nervous and then what happens 00:14:29.839 --> 00:14:31.440 is 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.800 somehow one of the 00:14:33.800 --> 00:14:37.320 giraffes is isolated from the others 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.000 then they the way they move one of them 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:45.120 starts to get like uh what is what is 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.120 Gerard's you know like it's the 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.199 scapegoat like they they start to move 00:14:49.199 --> 00:14:51.959 in a way where they're not where where 00:14:51.959 --> 00:14:54.120 that giraffe's movements and no longer 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:57.639 being M mimicked and it starts to uh 00:14:57.639 --> 00:14:59.440 feel isolated and that stands there 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:01.199 behind a tree while the other drafts 00:15:01.199 --> 00:15:03.240 leave and and they kill it it's like a 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.399 interesting psycho technology but so 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.720 there's something about pro-social 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.759 animals where we you know the shared 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.600 identity has to be pushed out and and 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.959 and maintained of course these things 00:15:17.959 --> 00:15:20.279 you know change and then the belonging 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.279 the precariousness of your belonging 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:27.120 needs has to be um has to be 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.880 solved um so from the top down if if if 00:15:30.880 --> 00:15:32.680 the shared identity breaks down from the 00:15:32.680 --> 00:15:35.759 top down then the culture dissolves and 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.800 if the belonging needs don't get uh 00:15:38.800 --> 00:15:42.480 taken care of then the individuals die 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.440 you know die and the culture dissolv so 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:46.759 there's to put it in a kind of a 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:48.519 psychological so there's there's 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:51.160 something like that happening and so at 00:15:51.160 --> 00:15:55.639 first you know um as early primates um 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:58.600 those two things were satisfied you know 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:02.440 arousal and satisfaction by somatic um 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.920 you know mutual grooming sex B pair 00:16:05.920 --> 00:16:09.480 bonding stuff like that but also and you 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:12.160 know when we think of sematic we also um 00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:16.600 think um also competitive sematics like 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.959 uh when when animals in in a herd you 00:16:19.959 --> 00:16:21.759 know go for their pecking order or 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.519 chickens a pecking order it's not 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:27.279 bonding activities activities are aren't 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.199 always just nice you know they they're 00:16:30.199 --> 00:16:35.360 also um you know can can look uh 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.399 competitive um but that makes you feel 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.480 you you know like if you lose over and 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:43.440 over and this one's dominant then you 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.199 still have a social belonging 00:16:45.199 --> 00:16:46.600 relationship with them now it's 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.160 established so we shouldn't just think 00:16:48.160 --> 00:16:52.399 of like the nice things um so then 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:53.720 they're sematic and then they're 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.000 gestural so that I don't no longer have 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.279 to punch you I can just yeah show my big 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.000 lobster claws uh and then they become 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.959 mimetic so they become children just ape 00:17:05.959 --> 00:17:08.039 them the whole you know sometimes we 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.160 don't even remember what they're for and 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.079 then they become ritualized and at this 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:14.640 point the Mythic culture comes in with 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.520 oral and narrative and this is where you 00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:18.290 start to 00:17:18.290 --> 00:17:19.439 [Music] 00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:22.439 have the split this is where the 00:17:22.439 --> 00:17:26.480 narratives become homeric epics or 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.880 giggly mesh um um it's probably earlier 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:34.000 I think than Homer um um where the whole 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.880 stories about people and territory and 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.160 they tell origin stories um from you 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.799 know um individuals who have establish 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:46.760 the people so like Adam and Eve and 00:17:46.760 --> 00:17:50.480 Abraham was gifted with a 100,000 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.799 children who were became become the 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.400 Jewish children so that's when you start 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.000 to have this split because in the iic 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.440 you always had gods in the heavens that 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.559 created the cosmologies that were still 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:05.760 active within the human realm but then 00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:08.120 you get this historical event this is 00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:11.960 sounds very bar Alexander bardian but 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.000 you get this historic event with those 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.559 two 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.919 domains or Dimensions get separated and 00:18:19.919 --> 00:18:22.520 this is way before the Scientific 00:18:22.520 --> 00:18:25.799 Revolution um where the church allows 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.600 Galileo to do science and Galileo the 00:18:28.600 --> 00:18:30.840 scientists say okay we're not going to 00:18:30.840 --> 00:18:33.200 do metaphysics anymore that split 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:38.360 happens very early but in this um book 00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:42.840 the series uh Lo logical investigations 00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:45.039 by Barry sandywell which I've never met 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:48.520 anyone who's read it um he shows that in 00:18:48.520 --> 00:18:51.440 the ionians just before the socratic 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.360 right around Homer there was this whole 00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:57.240 other he calls it lyric culture um that 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.400 was established for a short time and 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.559 then didn't didn't make the biggest uh 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.480 didn't make the biggest influence on the 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.520 European world it's basically A 00:19:10.520 --> 00:19:12.799 four-page Treatise on 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.159 European Consciousness 00:19:15.159 --> 00:19:18.400 but um what's nice is to is to be able 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:23.440 to trace it not only to Jan zwiki and um 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.679 you know that that we find this this in 00:19:27.679 --> 00:19:30.679 our m now but it's nice to be able to 00:19:30.679 --> 00:19:36.280 trace it to deeper into to uh a 00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:41.000 historical historical point when that 00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:46.400 happened I never really thought of it 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:50.559 that way until this 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.240 course 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:04.840 when you did that first um 00:20:04.840 --> 00:20:08.600 diagram in our in the first class 00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:11.840 Bonnie um of the individual the mind the 00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:15.960 body the collective and coming 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:17.919 together if I 00:20:17.919 --> 00:20:21.480 remember you had Society but then you 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:22.840 had 00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:25.520 culture can you tell me the distinction 00:20:25.520 --> 00:20:29.919 you're making between those two things 00:20:29.919 --> 00:20:33.320 yeah so I would say we had I would say 00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:35.720 you could have a convivial Society 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.200 inside of a different kind of culture 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:40.960 you could have a convivial Society 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.159 inside of a theoretic culture I've since 00:20:44.159 --> 00:20:47.679 changed that and I I'm calling our 00:20:47.679 --> 00:20:50.159 conviviality our Tech uh a certain kind 00:20:50.159 --> 00:20:51.280 of 00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:54.280 Techni you know a certain kind of 00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:56.520 Technology convivial technology Maps 00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:58.840 right onto ilage is is you know 00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:05.360 convivial tools right so um um and just 00:21:05.360 --> 00:21:06.919 trying to figure out all the you know 00:21:06.919 --> 00:21:08.760 what we've been doing the Mind back into 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:10.960 the body and then what I was trying to 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.840 distinguish what is lyric culture just 00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:15.600 another name for the convivial life and 00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:20.159 I would say no convi the convivial life 00:21:20.159 --> 00:21:24.200 or convivial is is the technology or the 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.679 technique that that we've been looking 00:21:26.679 --> 00:21:29.000 at I mean we didn't have that wasn't in 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:30.720 this module that was in The Parallax 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.159 course I was just trying to for people 00:21:33.159 --> 00:21:35.080 took both trying to make a distinction 00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:37.039 or trying to make it distinction in my 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.000 own mind because they're not really they 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.720 have a I mean I brought in janza Wiki in 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.480 The Parallax course because I was saying 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:46.120 that these 00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:49.559 are you know ilich had a lot of critique 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.480 but not a lot of Hope other than his 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.520 religious impulse and so we brought 00:21:54.520 --> 00:21:57.080 these other voices in like saying that 00:21:57.080 --> 00:21:59.480 you know that this this is the cultural 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.840 Renaissance around uh the convivial the 00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:06.840 convivial life 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.799 um 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.559 yeah I know there's not really an answer 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.039 but I was just trying to figure out what 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.159 were the two different frames that we 00:22:19.159 --> 00:22:26.840 were were they the same thing and um 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:29.960 yeah 00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:42.159 any other questions and then got two 00:22:42.159 --> 00:22:44.799 more minutes and it'll be exactly at the 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.000 half hour we break up 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.120 grp like it TI in 00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:54.120 today I got a 00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:56.960 quick um ask of what 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.960 emergence you know that came up a lot 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.400 with the Bard thing is it kind of my 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.320 intake is that it's like you have 00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:05.799 Evolution and 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:09.480 then you know uh for 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.200 example 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.600 we we're made of matter and then 00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:14.919 the matter kind of evolved and 00:23:14.919 --> 00:23:16.520 eventually Consciousness emerged out of 00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:18.159 it is that a brief kind of summary of 00:23:18.159 --> 00:23:20.919 what emergence means he has this thing 00:23:20.919 --> 00:23:23.840 called transcendental Vector emergence 00:23:23.840 --> 00:23:24.880 right 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.880 TBE 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.600 vector 00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:30.799 is it 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.279 TV um oh I don't remember what it was 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.360 yeah it was transal Vector something but 00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:38.159 he kept saying it's not Emergen Ser it's 00:23:38.159 --> 00:23:40.520 not emergence it's opposite it's it's 00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:41.679 not 00:23:41.679 --> 00:23:46.720 emergentism emergentism so he would uh 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:51.000 um he would critique emergentism the way 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.960 I did in my before Socrates series 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:54.960 because 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.080 emergentism is just uh um you know if I 00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:03.400 say you have matter and then uh life 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.640 emerges from it it's kind of just saying 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.400 oh a miracle happens in here we we 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.880 people don't really know uh even the ter 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:17.720 scientific Community argues about uh the 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.400 theoretical foundations of the word 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.080 emergence okay so um and the whole 00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:26.640 science is called myology if you want to 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.880 read a book on myology 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:34.159 um and um so emergence I would say is a 00:24:34.159 --> 00:24:37.320 science of change or a theory of change 00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:41.520 but most people use it because we don't 00:24:41.520 --> 00:24:43.600 have much 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:46.279 information we don't really know how 00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:50.039 matter slips into becoming life but we 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.360 know that there's we have a strong 00:24:52.360 --> 00:24:55.000 intuition that they're of different 00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:00.120 sorts okay um and so 00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:04.520 um he like like me I would say well 00:25:04.520 --> 00:25:07.039 that's just emergentism you just say oh 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.720 then life emerges it's just a taxonomy 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:11.440 it's like you might as well say miracle 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.559 happened or God put his hand you know um 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:19.480 so um and then you can you can I mean 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.480 this is very interesting uh part of the 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:25.880 weeds that I'm sure we'll get to talking 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:28.360 about I'm not sure that we agree 00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:32.760 Alexander and I agree so much but um so 00:25:32.760 --> 00:25:36.320 one of the metaphors for emergence is 00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:41.799 that something happens that at one state 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:44.760 that changes the properties okay so when 00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:48.480 water boils it has properties that 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.399 didn't it didn't have uh when it when it 00:25:51.399 --> 00:25:53.880 was Liquid right so when it's liquid 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.279 it's got osmotic pressure and blah blah 00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:57.960 blah blah and when it boils it has 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.399 different properties um when water um if 00:26:02.399 --> 00:26:04.880 you think of water inside 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:06.960 water 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.159 um the interesting thing about water in 00:26:10.159 --> 00:26:12.440 the liquid form is that its density is 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:16.240 the same as the density of 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:21.159 water but the density of ice water is 00:26:21.159 --> 00:26:23.679 lower than the density of water it 00:26:23.679 --> 00:26:27.120 floats so water when water is in water 00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:28.480 it doesn't 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.120 float when water is ice it actually 00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:33.480 floats in its own self okay so that's a 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:35.399 property there's many other properties 00:26:35.399 --> 00:26:38.760 but so it was first used to because they 00:26:38.760 --> 00:26:41.080 couldn't understand what was happening 00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:42.840 between phase 00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:44.919 transitions because it's 00:26:44.919 --> 00:26:47.240 stochastic like you don't know exactly 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.120 when it's going to happen but you can 00:26:50.120 --> 00:26:52.360 observe when it happens and the 00:26:52.360 --> 00:26:54.880 mechanisms are nonlinear it's truly 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.760 complex so you can't say this did this 00:26:56.760 --> 00:26:58.760 did this did this this so they use the 00:26:58.760 --> 00:27:01.720 word emergence now this what's 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.240 interesting about this this is the true 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.120 use of the word emergence 00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:10.960 because if you have you because the same 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.600 thing is going through the phase 00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:15.000 transitions water is not all of a sudden 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.120 different when it's gas you know what 00:27:18.120 --> 00:27:19.559 I'm saying is it was saying it's the 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.120 same thing whereas emergentism says oh 00:27:23.120 --> 00:27:26.360 now we have something completely 00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:28.880 different and it can't go back or 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:30.720 forward right so this is what 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.559 emergentism is it's got a much more uh 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.919 strong gap between the levels and we 00:27:37.919 --> 00:27:41.000 don't think of the phase transitions of 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:43.159 waters as somehow stacked higher to 00:27:43.159 --> 00:27:45.720 lower right we we just we just see that 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.000 that that there's there's there's change 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:54.799 in properties so I would say that um the 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:59.399 levels are are changes in potential 00:27:59.399 --> 00:28:00.640 states of 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.960 nature so 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.640 so I have nature all the way up and down 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:08.120 and I have phase transitions from 00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:10.320 complex potential States thinking so 00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:16.919 this is a way to to not reduce the 00:28:16.919 --> 00:28:19.159 Miracles I mean I think it's a miracle 00:28:19.159 --> 00:28:20.519 that water you know everybody it's a 00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:22.240 miracle that water has you know water is 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.919 one of the few elements that is light 00:28:24.919 --> 00:28:27.640 less dense when it freezes and if that 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.559 was not true I think it's the only it 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:31.480 might be the only liquid that does that 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:33.080 if that were not true life would not be 00:28:33.080 --> 00:28:35.840 possible I mean there's there's like a 00:28:35.840 --> 00:28:39.760 lot of miracles in science um but we 00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:42.480 don't have to have this word you know 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.240 this other meaning of 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.519 emergentism um because water doesn't not 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.640 become H2O the elements now if the when 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.279 the gas when water became a gas if the 00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:57.440 elements actually changed by some Al 00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.799 chemical like weirdness that would be 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:01.240 more like 00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.240 emergentism um but the fact that the 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:09.159 properties change so um so 00:29:09.159 --> 00:29:12.960 uh did that answer your question and and 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:16.200 um yeah that clicked yeah Bard would 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.080 agree with that but then he didn't like 00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:20.440 my vectors the way I drew the vectors 00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:24.559 out so um that needs we'll we'll talk I 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.080 know aong I think uh the other guy 00:29:27.080 --> 00:29:28.799 that's going to come in actually created 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:30.960 the vector Theory so we'll 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.960 see 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:40.399 um um and they'll said culture emerged 00:29:40.399 --> 00:29:44.399 go ahead um Xavier X yeah the man 00:29:44.399 --> 00:29:46.120 formerly known as 00:29:46.120 --> 00:29:47.799 Xavier 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.559 exitus much cooler um yeah no the the 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.279 you just got me thinking when you were 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:56.720 with your definition of Emer and I 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.480 thought you know this interesting 00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.440 property of water that you were 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:00.919 describing where you're like okay well 00:30:00.919 --> 00:30:03.320 on some level when water is gas versus 00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:04.960 Ice versus water and then you like in 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.360 the reductionist mode you go down and 00:30:06.360 --> 00:30:07.799 you're like oh it's just a bunch of H2O 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:09.840 and it's kind of H2O in both scenarios 00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:10.919 and nothing's changed and so there's 00:30:10.919 --> 00:30:13.480 this sense then in which emergence in 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:15.519 that sense is like the macro thing 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.880 changing while the micro thing is in 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.600 some sense fixed or it's like only 00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:21.919 changed in its in how it's Rel relating 00:30:21.919 --> 00:30:24.919 with other members of itself and I was 00:30:24.919 --> 00:30:26.840 just trying to think if that ever 00:30:26.840 --> 00:30:28.519 happens other way and I was thinking 00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.360 about we're 00:30:30.360 --> 00:30:32.679 quite when we encode information in 00:30:32.679 --> 00:30:33.720 different ways we're almost doing the 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.880 opposite of that so there's this 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.720 interesting mode in which like if I send 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.399 you like a an image file you know maybe 00:30:39.399 --> 00:30:40.799 on my computer it was stored on like a 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:43.200 magnetic hard drive so like that image 00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.159 like the macro phenomenon of the image 00:30:45.159 --> 00:30:47.279 was in the micro represented by like a 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:48.960 bunch of magnetic States and then it 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.240 gets suddenly turned into a bunch of 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.559 like electrical impulses and then it 00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:53.039 gets turned into a bunch of photons and 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.000 then maybe on your computer it's like a 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.639 in the flash memory and it's a bunch of 00:30:56.639 --> 00:30:58.080 like the states of electrons tunneled 00:30:58.080 --> 00:31:00.440 across insulators or something so the M 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:01.840 here it's like the flip of the water 00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:03.399 thing where the macro thing has stayed 00:31:03.399 --> 00:31:04.760 the same it's the same picture the same 00:31:04.760 --> 00:31:06.600 picture the same picture but it's the 00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:09.279 micro that's completely like changed in 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.240 its Essence so it's like the inverse of 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:12.799 emergence in some 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.399 sense yeah and that reminds me of this 00:31:15.399 --> 00:31:18.039 word transduction right so the 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.880 information comes in to a node or you 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.639 know a magnetic drive or something and 00:31:25.639 --> 00:31:28.000 it it's and then and then 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.399 it gets 00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:31.880 transduced uh you know this this what 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.639 this is the definition of a modem right 00:31:34.639 --> 00:31:37.360 so it goes from you know we used to have 00:31:37.360 --> 00:31:40.279 to have the dial up and you'd get radio 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.960 waves and then you needed a modem so 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:44.159 that it could talk to your 00:31:44.159 --> 00:31:50.399 computer um and uh 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.679 yeah but without I mean that a lot of 00:31:54.679 --> 00:31:56.639 times the problem with us you see the 00:31:56.639 --> 00:31:58.880 problem with our mental models and this 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.880 is I I wrote a a a quote from har he's 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.440 like we should we we need to do 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.200 philosophy around we need to 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.200 philosophize around what is possible not 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:09.799 just what is most 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.519 influential and so one of the problems 00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.440 with our mental models is we can hardly 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.159 think of emergence without thinking of 00:32:18.159 --> 00:32:21.399 things getting more complex or thinking 00:32:21.399 --> 00:32:23.519 of it going in the opposite direction 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:25.799 and thinking of it as being reductive 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:28.159 like the signal gets reduced this is not 00:32:28.159 --> 00:32:29.679 necessarily the 00:32:29.679 --> 00:32:32.039 case you know so there's many more 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.039 possibilities about these different 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.480 correlations these different movements 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:37.799 that we think of and I think that's 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:39.840 something you're touching on like like 00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:41.679 if something emerges and gets more 00:32:41.679 --> 00:32:44.440 complex in that mental model uh when it 00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.039 goes in the opposite models is there a 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.240 reduction and this is the Assumption in 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.960 Greg Enrique's uh transcendental 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.519 naturalism that that it gets reduced to 00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.399 Newtonian uh cos Al ity in in the new 00:32:58.399 --> 00:33:01.559 science says no nothing gets 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:04.559 reduced uh in that it doesn't get 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.559 reduced in that direction and then I 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.080 argue you can 00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:10.279 reduce in the other direction because 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:12.399 it's getting so complex it's it's just 00:33:12.399 --> 00:33:14.639 not real 00:33:14.639 --> 00:33:17.480 anymore yeah Cher's just calling back to 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:18.840 the Michael 11 video and that's 00:33:18.840 --> 00:33:19.760 interesting because on the one hand it 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:21.120 feels like he's capturing on the other 00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:22.919 hand he he has this very top down notion 00:33:22.919 --> 00:33:24.760 still where he's like the top levels 00:33:24.760 --> 00:33:26.720 warp the like spaces in which the lower 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.240 level are navigating and then those warp 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.080 the spaces in which they're not so so he 00:33:31.080 --> 00:33:32.720 has this like on the one hand this very 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:34.880 top down sense but yeah on the other 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:36.679 hand like like you're just describing 00:33:36.679 --> 00:33:38.480 when he describes that like on our 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.240 cellular level we're navigating 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:42.120 morphological space morphological space 00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:43.840 is this very high dimensional space you 00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:45.559 can add a lump here or move that way or 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.120 warp this way and then but then we as 00:33:48.120 --> 00:33:49.279 these high Lev enties are just 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.000 navigating three-dimensional space so we 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.840 become larger and more complex but the 00:33:52.840 --> 00:33:54.919 like space that we navigate has reduced 00:33:54.919 --> 00:33:57.679 to just three spatial Dimensions so like 00:33:57.679 --> 00:34:01.320 he's there is this like simplification 00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:05.360 as As you move up so this is exactly 00:34:05.360 --> 00:34:08.839 what Evo and I are going to spend the 00:34:08.839 --> 00:34:11.280 first three weeks in November working on 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:14.560 this notion we have this we call Action 00:34:14.560 --> 00:34:16.720 potentials but it works with internal 00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:18.919 and and external relations and it's 00:34:18.919 --> 00:34:21.839 supposed to fix this that that when you 00:34:21.839 --> 00:34:24.480 get more 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:29.159 complex you you know do so you 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.119 know when I get up and walk across the 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.200 room do I Su supervene on my cells they 00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:38.760 have they have no they have no 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.800 choice right so that's that's the top 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.440 down thing but if I'm a good Buddhist I 00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:46.200 wonder what makes me want to get up and 00:34:46.200 --> 00:34:49.200 walk across the room in the first place 00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:52.040 I have no choice so we're trying to fix 00:34:52.040 --> 00:34:55.599 that and this is this is exactly where 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.560 the two those two inquiries overlap um 00:35:00.560 --> 00:35:04.640 and um 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:08.960 um so that's that's what Evo and are 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:10.680 trying to we're trying to fix that like 00:35:10.680 --> 00:35:12.640 we have an intuition for it but language 00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:15.880 is so damn hard and it's and it's 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:17.960 impossible to draw it because as soon as 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:20.240 you draw it then this thing is also a 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:22.040 fractal of what you've just drawn and it 00:35:22.040 --> 00:35:25.079 goes all over the place but this is the 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:27.040 yeah and that's what we were talking 00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:29.680 about just before the origins of culture 00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:31.599 which is a collective individual we're 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:33.599 talking about the origins of the comp 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.160 you know we are compound individuals is 00:35:36.160 --> 00:35:39.119 culture a compound individual or is it a 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.839 collective individual well we have 00:35:40.839 --> 00:35:43.000 intuitions but what's the difference 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.160 when I refuse to call something a 00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:46.880 collective individual compound 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.040 individual because I think it's a 00:35:48.040 --> 00:35:49.200 collective 00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:51.440 individual um White had talked about 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.480 this but he just used the word 00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.119 Society society's in this direction and 00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:58.680 society's in that that directions and 00:35:58.680 --> 00:36:00.560 unless it's buried somewhere and his 00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:04.319 impossible to read rhetoric uh it's not 00:36:04.319 --> 00:36:06.839 really clear um but we're trying to 00:36:06.839 --> 00:36:10.960 solve that um because just by the way 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.200 you've presented it you know it's not 00:36:13.200 --> 00:36:16.119 consistent there's an inconsistency in 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:21.000 our view that's that that is constrained 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.119 by these inside it's constrained because 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:25.440 we we always talk in terms of what's 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:29.599 inside and outside things yeah 00:36:30.240 --> 00:36:33.920 baby so I was about to text David what 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:35.680 the does any of this have to do 00:36:35.680 --> 00:36:39.960 with me because I can't follow 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.760 it that having putting that aside when 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.280 you just 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.800 said about uh 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.200 God you know 00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:54.520 that 00:36:54.520 --> 00:36:57.160 your intention to walk AC across the 00:36:57.160 --> 00:37:01.599 room is superseding your body and your 00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.720 body is is has no choice but to do that 00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:07.760 the cells cells the cells the other hand 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.200 from a Buddhist P 00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.240 perspective you 00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:14.119 know 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.480 who where am I getting the information 00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:21.319 or the desire to go across the room 00:37:21.319 --> 00:37:24.319 and you said something about not having 00:37:24.319 --> 00:37:25.599 Choice 00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.359 there but all what I wanted to say was 00:37:29.359 --> 00:37:32.920 that when you said 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:37.240 that for the first time I think in this 00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:41.200 conversation I had movement inside of 00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:45.359 me that uh that I wanted to just say 00:37:45.359 --> 00:37:48.960 Okay stop right there what you just 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.960 said 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.640 uh is moving something in me I don't 00:37:55.640 --> 00:37:58.920 know what it is I don't know what it 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:00.800 means 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.960 um and I don't want to keep rattling on 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:05.240 and going to the next point the next 00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:06.400 point the next point because something 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:10.240 real just happened when you said that so 00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:11.800 that's all I have to say and I I don't 00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:15.880 know if anybody has any way to um join 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.200 me there or 00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:22.359 whatever everything Xavier said is in 00:38:22.359 --> 00:38:25.520 that example if you contemplate that 00:38:25.520 --> 00:38:29.599 example everything he said which was 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.319 quite you 00:38:31.319 --> 00:38:36.839 know uh conceptually thick um is in that 00:38:36.839 --> 00:38:39.359 question when I because for a long time 00:38:39.359 --> 00:38:42.280 people would say you know Bonnie yeah 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.480 but Bonnie you're talking about right 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.440 now okay and what I just requested and 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.880 maybe it wasn't very clear was something 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.880 just moved in me like I had an inner 00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.000 response like an inner call and response 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.250 to what you said and I wna I want to 00:39:04.250 --> 00:39:06.839 [Music] 00:39:06.839 --> 00:39:12.680 um make space for that to show itself 00:39:12.680 --> 00:39:14.880 more because because I can't because all 00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.599 the ideas about it and the talk about it 00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:19.560 seems like it swirls around but when 00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:21.560 something actually 00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:23.880 happens in my 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:25.920 being then I think okay there's 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.640 something real going on so am I making 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:33.440 sense I don't know what to say because 00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.640 what I was going to say is that's 00:39:35.640 --> 00:39:38.599 because this question that you can 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:41.280 contemplate of what gets up and walks 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.119 across the room is a very significant 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.480 question all the other stuff that we 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:49.520 said it was interesting but it didn't 00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:52.280 matter that you you don't have to 00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.119 understand what else went on because 00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:57.319 this is the Crux of the matter what gets 00:39:57.319 --> 00:39:59.839 up and goes across the 00:39:59.839 --> 00:40:02.680 room yeah and I would say that I would 00:40:02.680 --> 00:40:05.680 that that I agree with you and that and 00:40:05.680 --> 00:40:10.319 that attending on a personal level to 00:40:10.319 --> 00:40:11.200 that 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:15.560 question what moves and what's chatter 00:40:15.560 --> 00:40:20.079 and what's habit and what's wound and 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.880 whatever else that that is um motion 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:28.280 that's already put in place as opposed 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.640 to what's 00:40:31.640 --> 00:40:33.760 actually 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:36.760 um 00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:46.760 original is there such a thing as 00:40:55.319 --> 00:40:58.040 original 00:40:58.040 --> 00:41:00.079 all right let's go into a breakout group 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.839 and the question is going to be um do 00:41:03.839 --> 00:41:06.560 when I get up and walk across the room 00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:10.599 do does the ey that Bonnie is the ey in 00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:13.720 control of all my is that what's 00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:17.440 happening am I the controller that moves 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.960 all the other organisms in me 00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:24.160 or from the Buddhist perspective the 00:41:24.160 --> 00:41:26.960 fact that I had an arousal state got up 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:31.359 and walk across the room came from my 00:41:31.359 --> 00:41:33.119 pancreas and it's working with its 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.520 insulin and my bacteria and so in 00:41:35.520 --> 00:41:39.960 reality I have no control at 00:41:40.359 --> 00:41:42.720 all but then you have to ask the 00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:47.480 question the cells themselves are 00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:54.079 collectives so let's just sit with this 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:56.319 is everything we've been talking about 00:41:56.319 --> 00:41:58.160 the last two months so we'll go into a 00:41:58.160 --> 00:42:02.200 breakout room uh for 30 00:42:02.200 --> 00:42:07.960 minutes and talk about this 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:09.920 conundrum 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:13.880 um that uh why don't I don't see the 00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.680 breakout room things it's over there now 00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:19.839 all 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:25.160 right three to four participants 30 00:42:25.160 --> 00:42:28.160 minutes 00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:43.200 um okay enjoy your 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:46.920 conundrum and enjoy your 00:42:55.160 --> 00:42:58.160 company 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.559 I'll just share that I feel mildly 00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:44.040 bullied for being put into 00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:47.040 that and in like uh I think I feel 00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:49.960 bullied by reality actually in a good 00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.000 way there's there's maybe what I'm 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.640 trying to say is um it was really 00:43:55.640 --> 00:43:59.200 interesting being in a breakout room I 00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:01.440 was I was in it with John and 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.040 Phoebe 00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:06.440 and Katie and 00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:08.640 Xavier 00:44:08.640 --> 00:44:11.040 and I found 00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:13.640 it I was saying this at the very end of 00:44:13.640 --> 00:44:16.400 the group but almost like for the entire 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:20.599 duration of that breakout group I felt 00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:24.200 like I was physically like my body was 00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:28.480 physically being stretched and pulled 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.079 and almost like like like an entity was 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:34.720 pulling me and almost like wrapping me 00:44:34.720 --> 00:44:36.319 up and then 00:44:36.319 --> 00:44:39.880 like honestly it felt it felt like 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.480 somehow my body 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:47.319 was doing something in order to hold the 00:44:47.319 --> 00:44:49.400 amount of polarity that was in that 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:54.640 breakout room and the the way in which I 00:44:54.640 --> 00:44:56.520 felt Phoebe 00:44:56.520 --> 00:45:00.520 really ground like I felt you you tunnel 00:45:00.520 --> 00:45:02.280 that's this is how I physically felt it 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.079 like I felt you tunnel down into what 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.079 you were describing as origin this kind 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.559 of like kiss on the mouth from God like 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.760 and I was feeling my body almost pulled 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.480 in but then I was also physically next 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:19.720 to Xavier in bodies of space and he was 00:45:19.720 --> 00:45:24.960 just like over here and almost like 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.880 creating this whole 00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:30.559 I don't know how to describe it like 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:32.599 yeah just like these these like frame 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.440 after frame after frame after frame of 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:38.520 trying to make sense of what Phoebe was 00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:41.559 describing and being 00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:45.000 caught somehow in the middle like 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.640 somehow in that field 00:45:47.640 --> 00:45:50.440 was yeah I felt like a kind of energetic 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.559 gymnastics that I'm still physically 00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:55.880 actually trying to process right now uh 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.079 so I don't really know what happened but 00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:02.040 I feel moved to share that 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:24.480 experience I uh the question was seemed 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:27.800 like it was something like 00:46:27.839 --> 00:46:32.079 um am I the controller of my action on 00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:34.240 some level or is my is there 00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:37.800 rousel you know making me move on you 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:41.240 know something that's that's not uh 00:46:41.240 --> 00:46:44.839 coming from what I think I'm in charge 00:46:44.839 --> 00:46:46.760 of is that making move so there's an 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:50.240 either or and we talked about the 00:46:50.240 --> 00:46:52.280 particular 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.440 and whatever the other side of the 00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.800 particular is the all 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:04.440 um you know the polarity of that 00:47:05.839 --> 00:47:08.599 and I just want to say that the image 00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:11.240 came to me from it's St Bernard of 00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:13.960 clairo was one of the last of the he was 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:16.240 the last of the desert fathers or the 00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:18.240 fathers of the church and I think he 00:47:18.240 --> 00:47:20.839 wrote like in the I don't know what 1200 00:47:20.839 --> 00:47:23.920 1200s or something like that I can't 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:26.079 remember and it was collection of his 00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:30.040 sermons and and he said when we go from 00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:34.160 the kiss of the feet of God to the kiss 00:47:34.160 --> 00:47:37.970 on the lips of God that there's a 00:47:37.970 --> 00:47:39.160 [Music] 00:47:39.160 --> 00:47:42.240 um there's a both end 00:47:42.240 --> 00:47:46.240 there of being 00:47:46.319 --> 00:47:49.680 exquisitely and 00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:52.000 vulnerably 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:58.240 oneself and yet that self is being 00:47:58.240 --> 00:48:01.240 utterly 00:48:01.359 --> 00:48:06.480 um move beyond anything that I know by 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:09.880 what it is that I'm touching kissing in 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:10.720 an 00:48:10.720 --> 00:48:14.599 Embrace so I'm not 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.920 sure how this answers the question but 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:19.800 it feels like there's a both end and 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.119 then there's there's a there's something 00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:24.119 beyond that that 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:27.640 is um 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.319 yeah that's as much as I can say but I 00:48:30.319 --> 00:48:32.119 wanted 00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:34.960 to talk further about the kiss of God 00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:38.119 because that that was an interesting 00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:42.160 powerful image that came to 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.599 me 00:48:59.520 --> 00:49:03.599 in that same group I felt we were caught 00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.599 between Bon's two questions whether I 00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.040 was in control of the cells or the 00:49:09.040 --> 00:49:11.640 arousal state was in 00:49:11.640 --> 00:49:14.559 control and the kiss of God is really 00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.440 interesting in 00:49:17.839 --> 00:49:21.480 relationship who is in 00:49:24.520 --> 00:49:27.520 control 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.559 yeah I was in a group with matalina and 00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.760 um Sandra I mean Susan excuse me I'm 00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.880 sorry 00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.839 Susan and the question like evoked a 00:49:44.839 --> 00:49:48.920 really strong memory for me um I walked 00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.799 from from Canada to Mexico in 00:49:51.799 --> 00:49:54.000 2019 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.640 and I mentioned you know like almost 00:49:56.640 --> 00:49:58.559 every day I kept having this thought of 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:00.720 like I don't want to do this I can't do 00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:03.720 this and yet every day I would put my 00:50:03.720 --> 00:50:06.319 pack on and put one fo in front of the 00:50:06.319 --> 00:50:09.119 other and I remember one a couple 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:13.319 experiences where um I I was walking and 00:50:13.319 --> 00:50:15.280 it was clear like I was on the backbone 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:16.160 of this 00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:21.119 mountain and something like switched and 00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:22.720 it was really clear that the mountain 00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:25.200 was actually walking me like and there 00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:26.079 was 00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:29.520 just genuine experience of I'd be 00:50:29.520 --> 00:50:32.559 breathing and and breathing heavily but 00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:34.599 it was it felt like the mountain was 00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:38.319 breathing through me um and that yeah 00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:42.000 the mountain was walking on my body and 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.119 moments of of swimming in the 00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:48.119 water and this feeling of like this is 00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.920 the water experiencing what it's like to 00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.880 be water so just sort of this like 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.799 feeling of the body being this 00:50:55.799 --> 00:50:58.079 instrument this vessel through which 00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:59.799 nature is experiencing itself which 00:50:59.799 --> 00:51:02.079 water is experiencing itself like 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:03.760 swimming and just going this is this is 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:06.480 what the water the water's feeling what 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:08.079 it it's like to be 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:12.480 water and um that's kind of when I think 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:13.880 about that pull like what pulls you 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:16.799 across the room um I notice when I can 00:51:16.799 --> 00:51:20.240 really relax my body and and it's really 00:51:20.240 --> 00:51:24.119 open it it for me what moves it is this 00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:26.200 deep kind of curiosity 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:29.040 and sort of this sense that life or 00:51:29.040 --> 00:51:31.599 nature whatever word you want to use 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.520 wants to know what it is and what it can 00:51:33.520 --> 00:51:36.599 be and it's kind of this Natural 00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.799 Curiosity that pulls it to learn and to 00:51:39.799 --> 00:51:42.400 understand what's possible like what can 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.240 what can I be what can I 00:51:44.240 --> 00:51:46.839 become and it's not from the mind but 00:51:46.839 --> 00:51:50.240 it's um I mean the mind's part of it but 00:51:50.240 --> 00:51:52.160 in those moments I can just feel my body 00:51:52.160 --> 00:51:53.599 just being this really open vessel 00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:55.319 through which nature is wanting to exper 00:51:55.319 --> 00:51:58.119 experience what it 00:52:13.680 --> 00:52:17.040 is I'm 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:22.040 um I moved to speak up in part because 00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:23.559 charl just kicked me in the shin and 00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:25.520 said you have to do your work too and go 00:52:25.520 --> 00:52:27.400 down to the body I think I'm doing it 00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:30.480 all on your behalf so I'm like oh 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.440 okay 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:34.870 um yeah and it's true I don't 00:52:34.870 --> 00:52:36.480 [Music] 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:39.960 um it's hard to speak from the body I 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:42.319 think or I I think for some people here 00:52:42.319 --> 00:52:44.839 that's like the natural mode and this is 00:52:44.839 --> 00:52:47.040 coming up in our group that um drawing 00:52:47.040 --> 00:52:48.799 this dis delineation almost between like 00:52:48.799 --> 00:52:50.079 sort of the first person and the third 00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:53.480 person and I think in like Mich 11 video 00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:54.480 and a lot of these things where we're 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.880 talking about looking at multicellular 00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:59.119 organisms forming into larger things 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.440 we're speaking from that third person 00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:02.680 place where you're just looking at stuff 00:53:02.680 --> 00:53:04.200 happening and like looking at those 00:53:04.200 --> 00:53:05.680 patterns and thinking about causality in 00:53:05.680 --> 00:53:06.839 that 00:53:06.839 --> 00:53:10.400 way um and that's a lot easier for me 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:11.960 I'm an engineer and I do a lot of 00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:15.000 looking at things from the third 00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:18.240 person um Char's 00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:21.799 now holding my foot 00:53:21.799 --> 00:53:24.440 um so this is hard like I don't actually 00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:27.319 totally know how to how to do this from 00:53:27.319 --> 00:53:28.640 from the interior from the first person 00:53:28.640 --> 00:53:30.280 experience I don't even as much know how 00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:33.200 to answer the 00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:36.000 question from that place I guess one 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.160 thing maybe I would just say is is 00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:46.720 um I think each like is it is it the me 00:53:46.720 --> 00:53:48.240 is it the cells is the 00:53:48.240 --> 00:53:51.000 something I think those the answers to 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.040 those feel almost like from the first- 00:53:53.040 --> 00:53:55.599 person experience they're like it's like 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:56.720 Char saying she's pulled between these 00:53:56.720 --> 00:53:58.200 two different like Mo ways of seeing it 00:53:58.200 --> 00:53:59.799 or something they're almost 00:53:59.799 --> 00:54:03.359 like full full body it's like when the 00:54:03.359 --> 00:54:04.839 necer cube switches from being this way 00:54:04.839 --> 00:54:05.880 and then it's that way and the cube is 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.400 kind of n way there you can ask the 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:08.680 question all day is the cube popping up 00:54:08.680 --> 00:54:10.119 this way or is the cube popping up that 00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:12.680 way but the body thing the thing you 00:54:12.680 --> 00:54:14.200 actually feel is it right now it feels 00:54:14.200 --> 00:54:15.400 like it's this way right now it feels 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:18.520 like it's that way and when um prob when 00:54:18.520 --> 00:54:20.520 you were describing that feeling like 00:54:20.520 --> 00:54:22.079 you're being walked I know what it is to 00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:24.160 just tune into that mode and like it's 00:54:24.160 --> 00:54:25.880 actually when it's a activity I love 00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:27.400 when I'm going for a walk is to suddenly 00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:29.559 like feel as though I'm pulled along and 00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.240 it's as true in some sense like the 00:54:31.240 --> 00:54:33.520 necer cube but from the posture of 00:54:33.520 --> 00:54:35.720 feeling that way I act in a different 00:54:35.720 --> 00:54:38.720 way 00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:41.799 um 00:54:41.799 --> 00:54:44.280 uh but yeah and like I guess this is all 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:47.200 in the body in in some sense for me it 00:54:47.200 --> 00:54:48.920 is up here like I'm speaking right now 00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:50.559 from like kind of a nasal place and like 00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:52.520 an upper chest place and like a head and 00:54:52.520 --> 00:54:57.079 an eye and like an elevated thing 00:54:57.160 --> 00:54:59.640 um I think that's partly zoomed too I 00:54:59.640 --> 00:55:01.359 think if I was I think I if I was face 00:55:01.359 --> 00:55:02.960 to face with 00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:05.000 you I think the way in which I would go 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:06.839 into the body would be through your 00:55:06.839 --> 00:55:09.319 body you and you and you and you it 00:55:09.319 --> 00:55:11.280 would be something about it would be it 00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.160 would be rather it would be trying to 00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:14.799 draw it would be like searching for 00:55:14.799 --> 00:55:16.280 resonance with another person it would 00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:19.119 be like oh when I see it like where oh I 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:20.960 can see we're going this way oh I can 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:23.039 see we're going that and like kind of 00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:25.880 picking a a joint thing to be in and 00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:27.000 then and 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:32.079 then um and then carefully watching the 00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:33.960 little like the facial expressions and 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:36.000 the blushes and the quickening of the 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.240 breath and all those little things and 00:55:37.240 --> 00:55:38.920 noticing that little and then like 00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:40.880 choosing which thing to amplify there or 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.079 which thing to like tune into or being I 00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:44.359 think 00:55:44.359 --> 00:55:46.480 that's 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.119 often yeah I feel like there's often 00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:50.839 this dietic quality to really getting in 00:55:50.839 --> 00:55:52.240 the body because then you're tuning your 00:55:52.240 --> 00:55:56.000 body with somebody else's body uh 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:59.359 and I find that much harder to do over 00:55:59.359 --> 00:56:01.760 Zoom okay so now I'm going to say 00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:04.839 something I think it's a tragedy that 00:56:04.839 --> 00:56:07.280 you had to justify the way you were 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:09.799 excited about the 00:56:09.799 --> 00:56:13.079 concepts I don't like the body police 00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:15.359 and I don't like the first person police 00:56:15.359 --> 00:56:19.200 I don't like the third person police 00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:26.920 either 00:56:29.160 --> 00:56:31.440 I think it comes from sour personalities 00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:33.880 on both 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.039 ends his body was alive and he was 00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:40.920 making these connections what did it 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.119 matter if you didn't don't understand 00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.240 what he read or didn't 00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:49.400 read why did the police show 00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.880 up 00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.640 when people are sharing shared 00:56:59.640 --> 00:57:01.400 simulations through language we just 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:03.720 talked about this then the part of them 00:57:03.720 --> 00:57:06.319 ingresses into their body and then they 00:57:06.319 --> 00:57:08.720 become 00:57:11.359 --> 00:57:13.760 intimate it's not acceptable at the 00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:16.160 popup school to have a first person or a 00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:18.200 third person 00:57:18.200 --> 00:57:21.280 police like having policemen in school 00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.680 with their 00:57:23.799 --> 00:57:26.799 guns 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:39.520 I like what you're saying but say more 00:57:39.520 --> 00:57:42.200 about what was first person and what was 00:57:42.200 --> 00:57:45.960 third person well Xavier's like he's in 00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:48.640 the position of trying to apologize for 00:57:48.640 --> 00:57:51.000 having a conceptual hit on what we were 00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:52.680 talking about that's and he called it a 00:57:52.680 --> 00:57:56.799 third person perspective 00:58:01.160 --> 00:58:04.720 and all of this is life all of it is 00:58:04.720 --> 00:58:07.680 life now I get it and this is why I get 00:58:07.680 --> 00:58:11.160 it because technological 00:58:11.160 --> 00:58:14.839 speech has abused nature and abused 00:58:14.839 --> 00:58:18.119 people but it's not the speech it's the 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.319 people who use that tool what they're 00:58:20.319 --> 00:58:24.839 about and so sometimes we mistake techn 00:58:24.839 --> 00:58:27.599 logical or conceptual speech for abuse 00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:29.839 because that's the world we live in they 00:58:29.839 --> 00:58:32.440 use the abusive people use those words 00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.520 but just because someone so if you could 00:58:34.520 --> 00:58:37.640 read his body you would see he's not 00:58:37.640 --> 00:58:41.119 being abusive he was being creative and 00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:44.359 the life was coming 00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:54.920 forth and I want more of that in the pop 00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:57.119 of 00:59:10.520 --> 00:59:13.000 school and I just want to end I just 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.920 want to sit with 00:59:23.640 --> 00:59:26.640 this 00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:40.480 all 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:43.839 right no I'm just gonna 00:59:43.839 --> 00:59:48.799 stop okay this is what today was 00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:52.599 about and what is first 00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:58.200 person speaking about your first person 00:59:58.200 --> 01:00:02.079 experience they're both 01:00:03.240 --> 01:00:07.359 essential but the police are not 01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:14.160 allowed okay thank 01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:17.160 you