# Math & Pure Abstractions 2023 cohorts transcripts

## Cohort 1

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foreign

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so you know I was thinking like

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um

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you know how we have that like one week

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of break right we have like the six and

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then there's this

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then I think okay when I come back from

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the first module I always feel like like

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you know how you felt like when you come

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back for the second semester at school

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after break you feel like

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I don't know it's like you have to shift

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gears or you feel like you have to start

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all over again or make the connections

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do you feel that way like there's some

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like what are we doing here like you

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know

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um

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um and so sometimes I try to recap I'm

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not going to do that today but just

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acknowledging this

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it's like you're Rusty after that that

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you know like we get in this role by the

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time we're in the sixth

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version and then we have this break

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which is nice

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um and then I and then you come back and

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you feel Rusty again so I don't know

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um if anyone shares that a little bit

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like seems like forever

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foreign

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because I've been on an extended break

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that's right we'll have to talk to you

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off the planet

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reservations every step enough not to

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feel Rusty yet that's a nice one now I

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gotta review all those videos of you

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people

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catch up

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but are there any questions like that

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have like you've been ruminating

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um

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literally literally we just we just

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start came back from talking about

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justification mostly

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um and uh

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were there any lingering questions

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around that I'm you know we're going to

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spend another three minutes just kind of

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catching up because there might be some

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late skis

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I had a thought about that one should I

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will share I mean I noticed that

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there's a justification that it can

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occur after something occurs but there's

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also a pre-justification in a way

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and I noticed that my the energy of

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planning and the energy of forward

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justification feel the same if there's a

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difference it's very nuanced it's the

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same kind of flow

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yeah you know there's this interesting

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you know they call it retrospective

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sense making right and they really

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justification there's some kind of

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justifying forward

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yeah I think it's kind of like planning

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is

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is

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you're planning a sequence of events you

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know like we know enough that we can

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plan further out but really we're only

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we're only using the further out to

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figure the next few steps and then it

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goes on and on but when you're doing

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that there is like

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a kind of loop like why am I choosing

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that that that that out of the infinite

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things and it's because oh here's a

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thread that makes that scene acceptable

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to me and that's that could be a

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justification thread

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um

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okay it also matters who The Listener is

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you know who I'm with because I

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I mean I don't think about it

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deliberately but I do tailor how I speak

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with who's in the room and who's present

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yeah I want it to land and I know I have

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a feel for where it needs to go

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particularly with a single person with

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multiple people it's much more difficult

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but

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anyway

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well that's the thing with multiple

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people my whole societies we have these

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kind of

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static justification systems right that

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are that get really unruly and and

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um I guess that's what we're doing

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we can unrolling

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um

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Aaron you know maybe you want to share

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because what was cool was that Iran was

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I'm just going to tell you a story

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that's okay it's okay and then you

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kicked out

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yeah yeah so Aaron was on right after

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the justification he was going did a

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workshop and we we were talking about

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and then you know there's campfires and

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talks and he was talking about

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anticipating the conversation that might

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be there and and talking about what he

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might do

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to

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counterbalance

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a perspective without getting into

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justification right so I I don't know

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did you want to doesn't have to really

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talk about exactly that but did you have

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anything to share about that

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um so something I've been playing with a

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lot is adding to a conversation

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by so in in this Retreat it was a bunch

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of

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Jordan Peterson people like 12 out of

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the 17 people at the retreat had come

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there because my friend Rafe who

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organizes it was on a Jordan Peterson

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podcast so everyone was really eager to

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kind of like talk and put things in

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these these justification systems

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um

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and when we would do story time around

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the campfire

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um

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sometimes I would just kind of set

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the mood or the expectation by saying

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hey I'm gonna tell a story I would tell

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an old story

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and I want to feed the story with images

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that really spoke to you

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so

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instead of having conversations about

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what we thought the story meant we would

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just be like oh I really liked it or I

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felt really sad when the hunter was in

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the woods just longing to smell

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that fox dreaming woman who left just

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longing to smell her

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um

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and then we had conversations about

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those things versus the

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the explanations about them

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and then I would also do things like

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people would talk about whatever was

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going on and getting to some big like

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psychological story

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and I would say things like yeah so like

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squirrels are like that you know they

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really want to like a squirrel can get

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really protective of its nuts or just

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you know

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yeah exactly

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so things are

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it was just

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I wasn't trying to do anything as as

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much as just I have a conversation that

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was more interesting to me

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um

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yeah

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yeah that's all I got

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[Music]

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I wanna

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jump in um

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when I read John Herron

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um

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it was a massive really justification

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System of A Sort and but it allowed me

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to stretch Beyond

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every limited way that I was justifying

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myself or conceiving myself but it also

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was a system if you want to call it that

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that uh

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was about creating interface

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between who I am now and who I'm not and

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or be to the unknown just constantly

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so for me it a lot it was a it was a

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justification system it took me a long

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time to learn and integrate and that's

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pretty much all I did there are all

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these other people I haven't read but um

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but it gave me so much more me

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and yet and yet now what I feel like is

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it gave me a platform

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to go beyond and now what I feel like is

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I'm just hanging out in I don't know

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what's going on but I'm following this

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and I'm following that but it's the

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foundation is

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so much of um a

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uh

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having restructured myself

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um

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in such a way that my moving parts are

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available to me I'm aware of them

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they're not moving in the background and

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running things

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and so I can go into something new

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or it's like maybe you know you have a

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new skill

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um and I haven't done this but let's say

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you get on some kind of a

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well let's just say surfing

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my I don't know I don't know that

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analogy but you're out in the water

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doing something new and and yeah it's

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all new but everything you've done until

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that moment learning how to be in your

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body

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it comes to bear on how you do this new

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you don't do the new without having a

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relationship with your own uh you know

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physicality and and how do I balance and

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uh how do I see or whatever else there

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is involved so

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um

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and I imagine that that's an ongoing

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thing that there's that things

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um then then the new becomes kind of a

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new integrated quote-unquote

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justification system that can become a

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platform for what else you know how can

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I play outside of that

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yeah I mean that's really good because

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we kind of beat up on

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this mode of getting into you know the

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Obama kind of this mode of being

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propositionally dis Justified but what

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you're also pointing is that there's

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this function

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that's been uh

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that that is

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operating at a more foundational level

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in humans that allows us to

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leave behind the old system and kind of

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scaffold to something that's more

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aware of the movement and then now I

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love the way you said I'm aware of all

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my moving parts right that's very

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similar to the Gap dispositional State

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okay do I notice that they're moving not

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that do I have to quiet them or do I

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have to justify them or do no do am I

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noticing that they move that's really

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their function is to be in constant

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motion with what is real because our

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minds are static right our minds by the

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time we notice we're behind we're behind

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the The Thing by the time we justify

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we're way behind the Reel so

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um just just allowing the movement the

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moving parts to move naturally

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um yeah I just want to say something

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about that because another thing that I

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experienced also is trusting the

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subjectivity of the moving parts

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I don't have to be the central

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organizing uh

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you know thread for everything I I'm I'm

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letting autonomy

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um an increasing

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um

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autonomy of my moving Parts orchestrate

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themselves with me

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um and and that that's um

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acquired I guess over time

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yeah this is another important insight

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and that is

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um

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um

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I love this term orchestrate because

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what you're saying is like we have an

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ego we have a personality but it just

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needs to be on the same team as all

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these other things it does it certainly

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shouldn't be on top but it shouldn't

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shouldn't be exiled either right these

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words it's it's just on the same team

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right so it has its own function it can

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do some things that the other players

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can't do and vice versa but it's like

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it's on the same team you know the same

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with the mind the Mind acts as if

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it

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it's comprehensively understands

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everything but it should do that piece

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and think of itself

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my son is having my youngest son is

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having his first baby

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so I'm doing a baby blanket and then a

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sweater

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those are great memories for them

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I have some of my parents have passed

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over mothers mostly that have done that

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for me not and rather in my mid later

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ages so it's even more special and

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another woman who I associated with for

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years at my center and she gave one to

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us and uh they're great memories

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good for you

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I have a new definition of ego

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um

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it's not

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a lesser part that needs to be

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controlled

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and managed by the part that knows

00:15:29.459 --> 00:15:30.420
better

00:15:30.420 --> 00:15:34.880
the ego is a part of me that is

00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:38.839
undeveloped maybe even maimed

00:15:38.839 --> 00:15:40.860
and is

00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:43.740
crying out for

00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:45.120
um

00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.079
it's like an unruly child that is crying

00:15:49.079 --> 00:15:51.180
out for uh

00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:56.000
room at the table me too me too

00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.800
so I'm defining I have a new definition

00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:02.820
of the ego Bonnie that I'm defining so

00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.940
and so when the ego when the ego shows

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:09.000
up rather than feeling shame of oh god

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.459
this is my smallness or this is the ways

00:16:11.459 --> 00:16:12.959
in which I

00:16:12.959 --> 00:16:16.440
um haven't mastered a more equal more

00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.480
equilibrium or whatever else it's more

00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.740
like wow okay what do you need what do

00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:25.260
you want what's what's available through

00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:27.720
you that I don't have yet

00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.440
stuff

00:16:30.660 --> 00:16:34.019
and I've decided that the ego construct

00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.600
this is completely uninformed on my part

00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:40.199
the ego construct is more from a male

00:16:40.199 --> 00:16:42.540
perspective of

00:16:42.540 --> 00:16:44.120
I don't know what

00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.040
categorizing and controlling and and

00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:49.500
maybe my construct maybe is more of a

00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.779
feminine like the unruly child like

00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.259
we're all we all belong

00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:58.040
everything

00:17:06.780 --> 00:17:08.579
I just filled in the space when you were

00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:12.679
gone Bonnie that was cool

00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:14.220
[Music]

00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:16.140
um then the little dogs got out and

00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:18.600
started chasing

00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:20.459
chase the tree so okay and I was

00:17:20.459 --> 00:17:23.600
throwing pans at it

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.500
what's it

00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:29.760
a big bear was on my porch oh wow yeah

00:17:29.760 --> 00:17:32.040
because I have bird feeders out and he's

00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:34.020
a bait well he's big but he's like a

00:17:34.020 --> 00:17:35.580
year old and

00:17:35.580 --> 00:17:37.760
he probably got thrown out of his house

00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:40.740
and yeah

00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:43.740
okay

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.340
um all right abstractions

00:17:47.340 --> 00:17:49.440
did

00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:54.240
um let's see let me go I'm going to

00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.700
so this one was very hard to write

00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:58.980
because I didn't want to do a

00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:02.400
metacognitive analysis of abstractions

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.100
which would have been quite

00:18:05.100 --> 00:18:08.100
uh

00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:11.520
quite complex I did read quite quite a

00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:12.419
few

00:18:12.419 --> 00:18:14.160
um new books

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.000
um

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.179
to organize my thoughts

00:18:18.179 --> 00:18:22.559
um but let's just try to

00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.740
he's trying to deal with them uh let's

00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:29.220
just try to have a conversation on what

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:31.919
this territory seems like it's trying to

00:18:31.919 --> 00:18:35.760
get at so it looks just so I've I've I

00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:38.280
wrote in the course content mathematics

00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:40.260
and pure abstraction I know the session

00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:43.080
was originally called metaphysics mental

00:18:43.080 --> 00:18:44.520
models

00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:46.340
um let's

00:18:46.340 --> 00:18:49.460
more focus on math and pure abstraction

00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:52.380
we can talk about those other terms if

00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:54.059
you want but the course content really

00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:56.700
was written around math and peer

00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:01.020
abstractions so just what kind of

00:19:01.020 --> 00:19:02.880
um thing do you think we're talking

00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.500
about because we're not talking about

00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:06.660
affects although it can have an

00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:09.059
effective signature all these things and

00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:12.179
we're not talking about imagination

00:19:12.179 --> 00:19:14.340
um we're talking about something else

00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:16.559
and

00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:18.679
we'll play around a little later

00:19:18.679 --> 00:19:21.780
patterns and pattern recognition Okay so

00:19:21.780 --> 00:19:24.419
that's different than imagining patterns

00:19:24.419 --> 00:19:26.520
right so

00:19:26.520 --> 00:19:29.880
um so pattern recognition is a big one

00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.700
and we talked about how what's

00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:34.799
interesting is

00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.500
there's this bi-directionality so I can

00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.380
recognize a pattern in something

00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:43.820
then I can

00:19:44.299 --> 00:19:47.280
abstract that pattern into some precise

00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:50.160
language like math or geometry

00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.200
and then

00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.980
that helps me see things that were

00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:59.400
hidden because they also

00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.039
I I notice other things and I think it's

00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.400
as if there's this pattern behind them

00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.559
and then I see things that I couldn't

00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.100
see before so in a way it's kind of like

00:20:11.100 --> 00:20:14.580
saying the pattern under here these two

00:20:14.580 --> 00:20:16.440
things seem like they're doing the same

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.260
thing that's a metaphor this is like

00:20:19.260 --> 00:20:20.330
that

00:20:20.330 --> 00:20:21.600
[Music]

00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:24.720
but if you remember there's a way of

00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.760
doing metaphor where we're saying not

00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:31.200
only is X Y like y but X and Y are

00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.919
instances of Z and Z is this deeper

00:20:34.919 --> 00:20:36.480
abstraction

00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:40.220
that's hidden behind them so it's not so

00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:42.419
it's a different kind of thing let me

00:20:42.419 --> 00:20:44.840
close before

00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:50.249
[Music]

00:20:55.460 --> 00:20:59.880
and what I want to us to get a feel for

00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.539
is that when you read about this stuff

00:21:02.539 --> 00:21:06.780
you'll read they'll put math into the

00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:10.620
category of symbolic language okay

00:21:10.620 --> 00:21:14.460
and math does symbolize things but it's

00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:17.760
not symbolic like in liminal space we're

00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:20.280
looking at what I call Pure abstractions

00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:22.799
it's something that's actually really

00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.280
there it's a pattern that's really there

00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:27.840
but it's

00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:30.299
you know it's like a circle

00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:33.900
is an abstraction there's many circular

00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:36.960
things but nothing is a perfect circle a

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.020
pattern actually doesn't exist you can't

00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:42.720
see A Perfect Circle you can't see a

00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.820
point or a line

00:21:44.820 --> 00:21:47.880
but they're not but they really exist

00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.760
they're just idealized

00:21:50.760 --> 00:21:54.720
from the existence right so

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.580
um so they're not symbolic in the way

00:21:56.580 --> 00:22:00.659
like all bear now symbolizes

00:22:00.659 --> 00:22:04.140
um to the Native Americans that you know

00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.720
it symbolizes and then you these

00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.120
attributes right that's more of

00:22:09.120 --> 00:22:13.440
imagination so which I'm trying to

00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.820
uh

00:22:14.820 --> 00:22:19.080
give you all the spark of insight that

00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:22.380
like mathematicians have uh when they

00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.780
think things like math are more real

00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:27.419
than reality because they get this

00:22:27.419 --> 00:22:29.520
you know it's a spiritual experience

00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:32.820
like like how can how can people be in

00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:35.039
touch with these

00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.940
these

00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:39.840
abstractions I don't know what else to

00:22:39.840 --> 00:22:43.320
call them and

00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:46.260
they not only then are revealed by the

00:22:46.260 --> 00:22:49.679
world but then are useful to reveal

00:22:49.679 --> 00:22:52.260
something in the world that was not

00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:55.559
accessible by our other senses that just

00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.320
and so this is why I say the mind

00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:00.600
there is this thing

00:23:00.600 --> 00:23:03.419
that senses the world

00:23:03.419 --> 00:23:06.480
it's a sensory organ it perceives it

00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.720
directly perceives in this in this way

00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:13.440
and that's what I would call the mind

00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:15.440
um so

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.740
uh yeah is anybody

00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:21.600
could anybody that let's just talk

00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:24.299
around it until we get an idea of what

00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:25.559
we're talking about so pattern

00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.140
recognition is one

00:23:27.140 --> 00:23:28.860
and

00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:31.559
um there's different types of pattern

00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:33.419
you know the thing about pattern

00:23:33.419 --> 00:23:35.460
recognition it's interesting because for

00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:37.919
example the Fibonacci square like we've

00:23:37.919 --> 00:23:40.919
all seen Swirls and or fractals we've

00:23:40.919 --> 00:23:44.000
all but how many people came up with

00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.039
fibonacci's sequence how many people

00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.900
came up with the notion of a fractal

00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:51.360
once you have the abstraction you see it

00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.539
everywhere right it it becomes this

00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:58.440
organ of perception this organ of

00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.320
um this is what I'm saying there's this

00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:04.320
it both precedes the appearance

00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:06.179
because it's deeper than that but it

00:24:06.179 --> 00:24:08.520
also makes the appearance of some things

00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:11.159
possible so

00:24:11.159 --> 00:24:12.659
um yeah Phoebe

00:24:12.659 --> 00:24:15.240
well when I was at your place

00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:15.960
um

00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.480
and whenever that was April

00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.640
and I and I um

00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.340
and we went on the walk with uh

00:24:23.340 --> 00:24:24.799
oh God

00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:30.059
yeah and he showed the tool uh the

00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:31.320
second tool the first tool is more

00:24:31.320 --> 00:24:33.200
rudimentary but then there was a more

00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:36.179
refined stone that had been carved and

00:24:36.179 --> 00:24:37.919
it was sharp on all its edges and it had

00:24:37.919 --> 00:24:39.120
a beautiful shape and he talked about

00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:41.880
how this was a a real evolutionary leap

00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:43.020
this tool

00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:46.140
and when I held the tool it was I had a

00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:49.700
very powerful experience of

00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:53.580
bodily experience of the tool of um and

00:24:53.580 --> 00:24:55.740
what I said aloud was I know how to use

00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:58.260
this but it wasn't me talking almost it

00:24:58.260 --> 00:25:00.860
was like this this experience of

00:25:00.860 --> 00:25:04.740
connectivity with this new tool but so I

00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:08.720
had a lot of energy but then um

00:25:08.820 --> 00:25:12.299
then let's see if I can locate this

00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:16.020
but it felt like fractally connected

00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:19.440
to being on the cusp of a new tool now

00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:23.039
that had the same kind of explosive only

00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.179
that much maybe more explosive now that

00:25:27.179 --> 00:25:29.279
that tool had back then I could feel the

00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.860
I could feel the explosiveness of that

00:25:31.860 --> 00:25:34.679
tool what that brought into the world

00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:37.260
and I could feel it's fractal sort of

00:25:37.260 --> 00:25:40.500
resonance with or or somehow connection

00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:44.220
with something new that's on the cusp

00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:46.140
and I don't know if I can talk beyond

00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:48.600
that but but the idea of so to speak to

00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:51.840
what you're saying the idea of fractal

00:25:51.840 --> 00:25:54.960
gave me a perception

00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:00.240
and actually I got to experience fractal

00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.460
in that way personally it's like oh yeah

00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:05.640
okay got it that that explains something

00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.559
or lets me see something that I might

00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.460
not have seen otherwise

00:26:20.120 --> 00:26:24.000
yeah so it's almost as if you took the

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.480
fractal geometry

00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.360
and used it it hit you as a causal

00:26:32.360 --> 00:26:35.100
Universal causal pattern in a human

00:26:35.100 --> 00:26:37.679
evolution so you got the hit of what it

00:26:37.679 --> 00:26:41.400
was like for the ancient person to say

00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.100
this shape Cuts there's power in this

00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:45.419
shape

00:26:45.419 --> 00:26:48.720
and then it like oh and then throughout

00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.820
Evolution there was fractals of that

00:26:50.820 --> 00:26:53.640
that that experience happening and you

00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.360
notice that a new fractal is emerging

00:26:56.360 --> 00:26:59.400
today from the kinds of tools if we

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.620
could only see it right

00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:04.159
um the kinds of tools and technologies

00:27:04.159 --> 00:27:07.320
that are that are hidden

00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:10.320
um and of course this is why the

00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:12.960
advances in AI so

00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.900
um confusing to us because some like

00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:19.860
these kids like these these kids coders

00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:22.200
on the spectrum they can they like they

00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.059
write a little bit of code and then very

00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:27.240
the very beginning of the potential for

00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:29.220
it to be something huge like if you look

00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:31.500
at people talking about you know the

00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.380
computers in in

00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:36.240
1984. they're like oh someday it's going

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.460
to do this and do that and

00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:41.700
and you know Walter concrete is going

00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:43.559
really like it just it's just another

00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.840
kind of typewriter isn't it you know and

00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:49.400
like these people can can see

00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:53.159
this this from the seed this is gonna

00:27:53.159 --> 00:27:57.059
this is gonna go out you know so

00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:58.919
um in this case it's even more like an

00:27:58.919 --> 00:28:01.620
abstraction because

00:28:01.620 --> 00:28:04.620
they're not seeing not just seeing

00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:07.559
they're not seeing the abstract code in

00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.080
something concrete they're working with

00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:13.020
directly with code

00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:14.220
um which is

00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:15.299
you know

00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.820
extremely abstract

00:28:17.820 --> 00:28:19.440
it would occurs to me there's something

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.559
very exciting about understanding

00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.020
you see something oh my God and it

00:28:25.020 --> 00:28:26.520
really struck me I saw this commercial

00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:30.480
on TV for tick tock and this guy had a

00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:32.700
son who had trouble learning and he had

00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:34.260
so he created something he was

00:28:34.260 --> 00:28:35.580
advertising

00:28:35.580 --> 00:28:38.940
but he was at a desk with this girl who

00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:40.919
may have been six or seven her feet

00:28:40.919 --> 00:28:42.240
couldn't touch the ground on the chair

00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.240
she was in and you see her eyes light up

00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.520
and her legs start bouncing like this

00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:50.400
it's like innate there's some inherent

00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:54.380
Joy about recognizing something

00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:58.440
okay so I would say that's also one of

00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.659
the biomarkers of

00:29:00.659 --> 00:29:04.500
this this place we're talking about this

00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:06.539
domain of Human Experience you know Roy

00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:08.340
bashgar said

00:29:08.340 --> 00:29:11.220
you can you can

00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:14.520
you can coach people to memorize things

00:29:14.520 --> 00:29:17.039
but you can't teach anyone anything he's

00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.980
like T you can all you can do is keep

00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:22.080
saying it and then

00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:23.940
the student then then the person

00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:26.700
understands it versus just learns by

00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:28.080
wrote you know and this is what you're

00:29:28.080 --> 00:29:30.600
describing like whatever happens in the

00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:31.559
organism

00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:34.260
doesn't happen because you're teaching

00:29:34.260 --> 00:29:37.380
you just keep teaching until that thing

00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:40.020
kicks in you know

00:29:40.020 --> 00:29:42.120
um and um

00:29:42.120 --> 00:29:46.200
I was reading for this module uh

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.059
this book is a biography of this

00:29:48.059 --> 00:29:50.600
mathematician any in most of these

00:29:50.600 --> 00:29:53.460
mathematicians talk about how much they

00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:58.380
hated math in school because because

00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:00.779
so you know the teachers they learn how

00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:02.580
to teach math they don't understand it

00:30:02.580 --> 00:30:05.399
at this other kind of pure level and it

00:30:05.399 --> 00:30:07.679
really turns mathematicians people love

00:30:07.679 --> 00:30:11.960
a skill for that it turns them off so

00:30:18.010 --> 00:30:20.279
[Music]

00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.399
did anybody did anybody have time to

00:30:23.399 --> 00:30:26.520
spend time with some of the videos

00:30:26.520 --> 00:30:30.500
and did you like any of them

00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.279
I loved all the videos

00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:40.679
I think they're amazing

00:30:40.679 --> 00:30:41.340
um

00:30:41.340 --> 00:30:43.980
and it's interesting because

00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:46.080
a lot of the math videos they're

00:30:46.080 --> 00:30:48.179
explaining the equations with

00:30:48.179 --> 00:30:51.059
symbols right and I can't quite get that

00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:54.659
but I can get the visual of seeing these

00:30:54.659 --> 00:30:58.260
like geometric figures

00:30:58.260 --> 00:31:00.059
move around like

00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:01.980
the visuals really make sense to me

00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.600
whereas the

00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:05.940
the annotated

00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:08.399
way of describing it doesn't yet just

00:31:08.399 --> 00:31:09.600
because I haven't learned it I was

00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:12.659
turned off by it in school

00:31:12.659 --> 00:31:14.399
um

00:31:14.399 --> 00:31:15.720
but one of the things that was so

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.820
interesting to me about the whole thing

00:31:17.820 --> 00:31:19.980
you wrote was um and you brought up

00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:21.419
Christopher Alexander so Christopher

00:31:21.419 --> 00:31:23.880
Alexander is a builder an architect

00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.039
and he started off

00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:27.179
um

00:31:27.179 --> 00:31:28.860
really just trying to solve a problem

00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:31.679
which was what creates more life like

00:31:31.679 --> 00:31:35.580
why does this building or this

00:31:35.580 --> 00:31:38.940
oh armor why does this object created by

00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.360
a man have more life than this one and I

00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:45.260
think he started doing these amazing um

00:31:45.260 --> 00:31:47.880
experiments or he would take a picture

00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:50.340
of a skyscraper and a picture of a

00:31:50.340 --> 00:31:52.919
little cottage somewhere in Ireland and

00:31:52.919 --> 00:31:55.440
just ask people to rank like life from

00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.899
one to ten which has more life

00:31:57.899 --> 00:32:00.120
and that was like his initial Research

00:32:00.120 --> 00:32:02.539
into

00:32:03.840 --> 00:32:06.120
it which doesn't seem abstract to me at

00:32:06.120 --> 00:32:08.640
all it seems like uh he's relying on a

00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.200
felt sense

00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:12.240
and a lot of people would criticize his

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.179
his thing as like too romantic or

00:32:15.179 --> 00:32:18.299
but out of that research he came up with

00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:20.640
these 16 principles of like how to

00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.100
create Beauty how to create order

00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:24.480
um

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.340
and after reading his stuff I start

00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:28.940
seeing

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.480
the the patterns he describes everywhere

00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.399
um it's like oh I don't like this

00:32:35.399 --> 00:32:37.020
building I feel cold in here because

00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:38.700
there aren't a lot of centers repeating

00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.700
themselves there there isn't a sense of

00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:46.080
sadness in it or there isn't a

00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:49.380
I forget all his all his uh

00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:51.899
all the principles he isolated but

00:32:51.899 --> 00:32:54.899
that's just an instance of um seeing the

00:32:54.899 --> 00:32:55.980
world

00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.399
through the pattern that was described

00:32:59.399 --> 00:33:01.260
and not necessarily imposing because I

00:33:01.260 --> 00:33:05.159
can also discard that way of perception

00:33:05.159 --> 00:33:08.279
but um it's it's kind of like a way of

00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.700
organizing perception that

00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:15.299
allows me to to create more Beauty

00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.620
if I choose

00:33:21.140 --> 00:33:23.519
oh this is the book Phoebe just wrote

00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.840
what's the book this is the book that

00:33:24.840 --> 00:33:26.279
Bonnie described by Christopher

00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.200
Alexander it's a series of four books

00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.120
called the nature of order

00:33:30.120 --> 00:33:32.760
by Christopher Alexander

00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:36.360
yeah and one of the things in Alexander

00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:38.290
that's

00:33:38.290 --> 00:33:41.159
[Music]

00:33:41.159 --> 00:33:42.960
because what we would call complexity

00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.019
right an enormous sense not complicated

00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:47.700
complexity

00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:51.480
which he calls the living process and

00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.460
um

00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:55.220
they as far as we understand

00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:58.679
uh they're based on Simple Rules or

00:33:58.679 --> 00:34:01.740
principles a finite set of simple rules

00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:04.200
and principles can create an infinite

00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.779
set of complexity

00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:10.280
and so

00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:26.639
and so one of the things that we do in

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.240
if you're into abstraction is trying to

00:34:30.240 --> 00:34:32.520
not reduce

00:34:32.520 --> 00:34:35.639
things to Parts but release the

00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:38.399
complexity down to fundamental

00:34:38.399 --> 00:34:40.760
principles

00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.980
and and

00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:45.839
um

00:34:45.839 --> 00:34:48.240
this is you know source code people

00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:50.399
working on source code or pattern

00:34:50.399 --> 00:34:53.760
languages there's so many uh people have

00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.859
done many many versions of pattern

00:34:55.859 --> 00:34:59.099
languages some are more like yeah I was

00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:01.619
going to say that Conway's Game of Life

00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:04.680
is fascinating to play with

00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:07.020
um the the and the thing about Conway's

00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:09.599
Game of Life is with simple codes you

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:10.820
can make

00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:15.480
patterns that work like murmurations of

00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.200
of star of birds some of the codes don't

00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:21.660
code for much of anything the thing dies

00:35:21.660 --> 00:35:22.980
out

00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:23.579
um

00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:27.180
the thing about that is it's it's a leap

00:35:27.180 --> 00:35:30.119
like that's a simulation right

00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:33.660
um but it suggests that there are these

00:35:33.660 --> 00:35:38.160
similar uh simple codes that complex

00:35:38.160 --> 00:35:41.339
actual living creatures or even

00:35:41.339 --> 00:35:43.980
crystalline structures

00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:46.500
um all these these things in nature have

00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:49.680
organizing principles as

00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:51.740
um

00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:53.099
um and their their principles of

00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.740
self-organization so

00:35:55.740 --> 00:35:58.160
um when you're working with these

00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:01.079
abstractions you're not reducing upward

00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:03.240
to these larger and larger conceptual

00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:05.099
abstractions

00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:07.820
you're working

00:36:07.820 --> 00:36:11.040
downwards to these compressed principles

00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:13.140
from which everything else is

00:36:13.140 --> 00:36:15.359
is generated

00:36:15.359 --> 00:36:17.579
um and the problem with like people like

00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:18.960
us

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:21.960
um yeah that one that video viewler's

00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.660
equation is beautiful but

00:36:24.660 --> 00:36:26.780
you know there's so much information

00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:30.480
compressed into those symbols right

00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.220
those those

00:36:32.220 --> 00:36:34.500
annotations

00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.079
um that we can get a hit of what's going

00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.560
on but I mean I for one you know

00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:42.960
couldn't reproduce it so

00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.200
um but I like the fact that something as

00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:50.480
beautiful as Euler's equation

00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:53.280
there's a mechanism behind it it's like

00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.680
take a circle and it's like that

00:36:55.680 --> 00:36:57.599
pendulus did you see the two hour the

00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.000
one hour pendulas okay so if you're just

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.859
looking at the patterns it's very

00:37:01.859 --> 00:37:04.380
complex and beautiful but there's an

00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:06.780
actual physical mechanism the physical

00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:09.300
mechanism represents the constraints

00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:11.880
right that you have this length of a

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.040
thing pivoting on this length it can

00:37:14.040 --> 00:37:16.920
only make so many arcs there's only so

00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.920
many ways in which it can move and yet

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.660
there's an infinite variety of

00:37:21.660 --> 00:37:24.060
complexity that it can generate and the

00:37:24.060 --> 00:37:27.300
question is when you are only seeing the

00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:30.180
resulting complexity what kind of mind

00:37:30.180 --> 00:37:32.640
can say it's as if

00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:36.119
you know there it's as if there's a rod

00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.420
attached to a thing and those things may

00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:44.220
be not concrete uh objects but they

00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:46.560
could be constraining principles so

00:37:46.560 --> 00:37:49.440
there's a thing that constrains the

00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:55.260
movement to this space just like the arm

00:37:55.260 --> 00:37:58.320
on that pendulum constrains the movement

00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.260
to certain certain spaces or like the

00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:03.420
oval right the ellipse that one was cool

00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:05.940
like you start with an ellipse

00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:10.500
and all the movement is constrained by

00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:12.960
the boundary that is the ellipse and in

00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.020
nature it may not actually be a big huge

00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:19.140
bowl out in space but it could be a

00:38:19.140 --> 00:38:21.180
gravitational field that's elliptical

00:38:21.180 --> 00:38:25.440
has elliptical causal forces so when you

00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.800
see something like that you can see you

00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.660
would ask yourself why is the movement

00:38:30.660 --> 00:38:33.780
constrained that way ah you then you

00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:35.940
could go looking for something that is

00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:38.220
oval like

00:38:38.220 --> 00:38:41.940
right so certain gravitational fields

00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:45.420
can you know that are formed by planets

00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:48.480
could create a force boundary

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.540
that acts like an oval in space so this

00:38:51.540 --> 00:38:53.640
is the way

00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:57.740
these things are are real

00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.180
um they're they're they're established

00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:03.800
from geometric realities real ovals real

00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:08.660
but they are

00:39:09.839 --> 00:39:14.359
they're principles that can exist in in

00:39:14.359 --> 00:39:17.940
virtual kinds of ways

00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:20.820
so there's not really a big oval in

00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:21.780
space

00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:25.859
in which the things are pinging off of

00:39:25.859 --> 00:39:28.800
but the as if there's an oval in space

00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.839
is made possible for you to see because

00:39:30.839 --> 00:39:34.440
you played it with geometric

00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.440
experiments

00:39:41.579 --> 00:39:43.500
I want to speak a little bit to what

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.619
Aaron said about uh what makes something

00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:48.660
I can't remember if he's a beautiful the

00:39:48.660 --> 00:39:51.000
the there might be need to be sadness or

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:52.740
something in his face

00:39:52.740 --> 00:39:55.980
um so after my husband died and I first

00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.660
moved into my neighbor's apartment above

00:39:57.660 --> 00:39:59.880
his garage and it was beautiful

00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:02.220
geometrically it had big beam ceilings

00:40:02.220 --> 00:40:04.320
it was just a it was a gorgeous space

00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.200
but he was starting to really get on my

00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:09.420
nerves I felt creeped out by him I felt

00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:11.820
it was it felt invasive so I was talking

00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:14.400
to somebody about it and um feeling

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.859
constrained feeling the space felt

00:40:16.859 --> 00:40:18.480
really yucky

00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.140
and when I got real clarity about what

00:40:22.140 --> 00:40:24.359
was happening what my emotional patterns

00:40:24.359 --> 00:40:26.880
were and what and and somehow came back

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.500
to myself

00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:33.800
all of a sudden the space changed

00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:37.560
and and I saw it through my eyes even

00:40:37.560 --> 00:40:40.560
though I wasn't seeing

00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:42.180
something

00:40:42.180 --> 00:40:43.380
um physical

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:46.619
still through my eyes I Saw the space

00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:48.420
shift

00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:53.520
become more easy more expansive lighter

00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:54.240
um

00:40:54.240 --> 00:40:56.220
I experienced it in my body but again I

00:40:56.220 --> 00:40:58.440
saw through my eyes and that was a sense

00:40:58.440 --> 00:40:59.579
of

00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:00.420
um

00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:04.380
an order that was there

00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:07.560
or a beauty that was there that had not

00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:09.599
been there

00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:12.180
and then another example of that kind of

00:41:12.180 --> 00:41:13.880
thing was I was working with a friend

00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.020
recovering from surgery and I was

00:41:16.020 --> 00:41:18.480
helping her put her kitchen into a new a

00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:20.640
new order and I was like down on my

00:41:20.640 --> 00:41:23.640
hands and knees scrubbing the floor

00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:28.020
and I felt like I was building Temple

00:41:28.020 --> 00:41:30.060
and every day after I put some more

00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:31.680
order in this room we sat back and we

00:41:31.680 --> 00:41:33.540
looked at this kitchen because we could

00:41:33.540 --> 00:41:34.859
see it from the living room they're like

00:41:34.859 --> 00:41:36.359
wow

00:41:36.359 --> 00:41:39.839
this a whole new coherence here

00:41:39.839 --> 00:41:42.720
and it wasn't it wasn't that all the

00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.339
cupboards were open and we were seeing

00:41:44.339 --> 00:41:47.460
things in order it was the felt sense of

00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:49.440
things

00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:50.820
um

00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:53.160
I don't know being held by a larger

00:41:53.160 --> 00:41:55.260
coherence so I don't know if this is

00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:58.560
what you're talking about in all of this

00:41:58.560 --> 00:42:01.980
um she showed me later on

00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:05.339
um a pic a photo of her original Studio

00:42:05.339 --> 00:42:08.160
which had been a gorgeous yurt with Oak

00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.520
floor and beautiful trellis and the only

00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:13.980
thing in the studio to do her work was a

00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:15.300
grand piano

00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:17.460
and when I looked at the studio I was

00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:19.740
like oh

00:42:19.740 --> 00:42:23.040
that's what's coming in in this kitchen

00:42:23.040 --> 00:42:25.020
that was such a mess

00:42:25.020 --> 00:42:26.940
so I don't know

00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:28.680
I throw that out because that's that's

00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:30.839
what stirred up for me when I read this

00:42:30.839 --> 00:42:33.660
material and Erin when you spoke about

00:42:33.660 --> 00:42:35.300
um whatever it was you just spoke about

00:42:35.300 --> 00:42:38.040
Christopher Allen

00:42:38.040 --> 00:42:39.780
Alexander

00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:42.619
Alexander

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.980
um let's see I want to jump in here

00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:54.780
I hear

00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:57.900
I'm I can't get out of my mind the

00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.060
Christopher Alexander quote about when

00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:03.300
he built something he didn't build it

00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:07.500
in isolation he built it his word is

00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:10.200
too weighty for me but to repair the

00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:13.920
world outside of what he was building I

00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.920
would say to include the world

00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:21.240
and to repair or include the world

00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:24.960
inside of what he's building as well as

00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.740
what he's building so it's this complete

00:43:28.740 --> 00:43:31.500
experience just like

00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:33.780
what Phoebe was talking about learning

00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:36.660
how to surf in the water

00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:42.260
to get that skill that skill was not

00:43:42.359 --> 00:43:45.839
it was included in

00:43:45.839 --> 00:43:49.619
the waves and how she was her

00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:52.200
disposition and learning it and then she

00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:55.200
moved beyond that by the coherence just

00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:57.000
like in the

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.540
apartment

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:05.220
she was able to create something and

00:44:05.220 --> 00:44:06.720
then

00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:11.040
include the outside and include what was

00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:14.220
changed on the inside so it's this

00:44:14.220 --> 00:44:17.720
whole experience

00:44:17.819 --> 00:44:21.420
that's the way I'm hearing the two

00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:24.420
experiences

00:44:25.680 --> 00:44:28.319
and what I'm having a little difficulty

00:44:28.319 --> 00:44:31.079
with is

00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.020
and I loved it it's not difficulty like

00:44:34.020 --> 00:44:37.440
I don't love it but the video

00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.660
that you included

00:44:39.660 --> 00:44:42.900
about what's his name

00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:45.780
um Edward Frankel talking the

00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:48.440
mathematician talking in that interview

00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:53.420
and the thing I I can't shake is

00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:02.839
is it invented or is it discovered

00:45:06.540 --> 00:45:09.000
so this new light that came into the

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:10.800
apartment

00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.020
when Phoebe opened her eyes did she

00:45:13.020 --> 00:45:17.839
invent that or did she discover that

00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:22.099
his his feeling that

00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:24.599
like the number nine

00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.740
is a symbol

00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.160
and he had this experience that it had

00:45:32.160 --> 00:45:34.140
divinity

00:45:34.140 --> 00:45:38.339
there was a Divinity in that symbol

00:45:38.339 --> 00:45:41.339
did he invent the Divinity or did he

00:45:41.339 --> 00:45:44.599
discover the divinity

00:45:48.180 --> 00:45:50.220
so I think as I'm sitting here now

00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:52.760
trying to

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:56.460
bring those pieces all together I think

00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:59.400
it's it's in that world of

00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:01.740
fear abstraction

00:46:01.740 --> 00:46:04.500
there's no answer to that but it's in

00:46:04.500 --> 00:46:07.380
that world of the muscle that we have of

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:09.480
pure abstraction that we're opening up

00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.780
here

00:46:14.220 --> 00:46:17.339
yeah so it's it was his biography that I

00:46:17.339 --> 00:46:19.500
bought and I don't recommend it has way

00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:21.660
too much more too much math in it than I

00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:23.339
thought it would have

00:46:23.339 --> 00:46:25.740
um so that watching the interview with

00:46:25.740 --> 00:46:27.540
Lex Friedman is better than buying the

00:46:27.540 --> 00:46:31.200
book but I think what you're saying I

00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:32.940
just want to double click on it because

00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:36.660
this question is going to leads us

00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:39.240
directly into the final module of this

00:46:39.240 --> 00:46:43.980
this background and that is that

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:46.800
um you know it's this question's been

00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:47.760
there

00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.480
all along like is the imagination you

00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.720
know real or not real subject or object

00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:56.760
um but when you get into pure

00:46:56.760 --> 00:47:00.300
abstractions that border between subject

00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:03.420
and object starts to

00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:06.660
starts to uh

00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:08.880
get much more porous this is what I'm

00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:10.560
saying the Mind enters the world

00:47:10.560 --> 00:47:13.220
directly I don't have this

00:47:13.220 --> 00:47:15.800
subjective feeling about

00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:18.859
abstractions but I know they're not

00:47:18.859 --> 00:47:21.839
concrete at the same time it's the way

00:47:21.839 --> 00:47:25.980
that is the taste of salt subjective or

00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:27.660
objective

00:47:27.660 --> 00:47:31.560
and so when we work with perception we

00:47:31.560 --> 00:47:34.079
understand that there's the hylozoic

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.839
Zone somewhere we either talk about it

00:47:36.839 --> 00:47:39.240
as subjectivity or somewhere we talk

00:47:39.240 --> 00:47:42.300
about as objectivity but the in between

00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:46.980
it's it's it's neither it's both and

00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:48.540
okay remember when we talked about

00:47:48.540 --> 00:47:52.440
perception we understood okay and this

00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.079
is what with imagination

00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:58.140
in memory they feel much more subjective

00:47:58.140 --> 00:48:00.119
we noticed

00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:03.240
that it's mashing up associations the

00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:06.060
stuff's happening mostly in my mind I

00:48:06.060 --> 00:48:08.040
understand with our dreams there might

00:48:08.040 --> 00:48:10.680
be some sound that gets imported

00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:12.839
nothing's ever you know the world's not

00:48:12.839 --> 00:48:15.960
never shut out completely but with

00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:18.780
perception we understand there's this

00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:20.599
there's this

00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:23.460
overlap that's very understandable is

00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:27.119
the sound in my ear or is it coming from

00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:30.660
the radio okay now this is the key when

00:48:30.660 --> 00:48:33.240
you get to Pure abstractions

00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:36.319
this is why I'm convinced it's more like

00:48:36.319 --> 00:48:39.359
or math it's more like the way the Mind

00:48:39.359 --> 00:48:42.420
enters the world the way the ear enters

00:48:42.420 --> 00:48:45.000
the world and the eyes enter the world I

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.560
think it's an organ of perception

00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:47.819
because

00:48:47.819 --> 00:48:52.200
of that same felt sense that

00:48:52.200 --> 00:48:54.839
the subject object thing it doesn't

00:48:54.839 --> 00:48:57.480
really apply

00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.540
um and so this is

00:49:00.540 --> 00:49:02.540
um

00:49:02.819 --> 00:49:06.780
um so so you're picking out something

00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:09.000
um and of course this was Alexander's

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.460
struggle you know is it in the object

00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:15.300
really or is it in my dispositional

00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:17.280
state I looked at the chair my mother

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.040
had a chair like that so I'm gonna I'm

00:49:20.040 --> 00:49:22.140
gonna downgrade it to having less life

00:49:22.140 --> 00:49:25.079
you know and

00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:26.819
Christopher Alexander was saying if you

00:49:26.819 --> 00:49:29.099
could peel all that subjectivity away

00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:31.319
you'd find there's still a way to

00:49:31.319 --> 00:49:34.079
evaluate which ones have more life

00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.200
um but his is not as much as of you know

00:49:37.200 --> 00:49:38.819
he's doing pattern recognition and

00:49:38.819 --> 00:49:42.480
pattern language but it's not as pure as

00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:44.880
some of what these mathematicians how

00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:46.740
they relate to

00:49:46.740 --> 00:49:48.740
um now when he gets to nature of order

00:49:48.740 --> 00:49:51.599
he's starting to look at like when I

00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:54.420
look at things I'm seeing myself and

00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:56.579
he's got this very strange like he

00:49:56.579 --> 00:49:58.500
started off by saying the quality in

00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:01.140
this is purely objective

00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:04.619
and after 25 or 30 years writing the

00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:07.619
nature of order he's like myself is in

00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:11.099
there like again you see this funny

00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:15.359
funny interent entanglement where those

00:50:15.359 --> 00:50:18.000
words start to break down the experience

00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:19.280
is not

00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.599
categorized and that's the question I'll

00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.119
math some mathematicians I think the guy

00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:25.740
said this that

00:50:25.740 --> 00:50:27.920
he started off thinking they were

00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:31.560
discovered and now he's not so sure he

00:50:31.560 --> 00:50:33.500
started off thinking that subjective

00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:37.680
content was not that important but now

00:50:37.680 --> 00:50:41.099
he's not so sure you know and people

00:50:41.099 --> 00:50:45.420
move from one direction to the other

00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:48.540
um but we're going to get to that

00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:50.339
um actually here's the chart well it's

00:50:50.339 --> 00:50:52.079
the chart I drew

00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.380
um that that work as we become more and

00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:57.660
more aware

00:50:57.660 --> 00:50:59.960
um we can we're becoming more aware

00:50:59.960 --> 00:51:02.460
reflexive awareness like awareness of

00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:03.540
awareness

00:51:03.540 --> 00:51:06.839
and we toggle sometimes it has a really

00:51:06.839 --> 00:51:09.000
really strong Taste of subjectivity and

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.319
then we start to be aware that

00:51:10.319 --> 00:51:12.059
everything is subjective

00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:15.480
then we'll do some practices we start to

00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:17.520
think well everything I'm witnessing my

00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:20.280
own subjectivity so it's an object and

00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.500
then you'll switch back in fact and then

00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:25.020
you get to awareness itself which

00:51:25.020 --> 00:51:28.680
resolves the the dichotomy uh entirely

00:51:28.680 --> 00:51:32.460
so this is exactly one of the big points

00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:37.460
uh in this module is to get a hit hit of

00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:39.359
that

00:51:39.359 --> 00:51:40.400
that

00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.079
at first it wobbles like this subject

00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:45.000
object subject at first it's like the

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:46.559
subject looking at an object and then it

00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:48.300
wobbles like this and then pretty soon

00:51:48.300 --> 00:51:49.920
it's like and this is where we're at

00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.720
with math right like

00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:56.300
yeah Claudia good noticing

00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:58.980
yeah I I might be taking it slightly

00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:01.440
back to perception but

00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:03.000
um

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.059
I was thinking about a bee and a flower

00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:08.819
and Beauty as the organizing principle

00:52:08.819 --> 00:52:12.420
of reality or an organizing principle

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:15.780
and how direct a bee is when it

00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:17.099
approaches a flower

00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:19.079
I also saw this beautiful experiment

00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:21.000
which was of a

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.000
um it was a van Gogh painting so

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.520
um of sunflowers so there was no smell

00:52:26.520 --> 00:52:28.980
but just the kind of beauty that humans

00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:31.020
can see

00:52:31.020 --> 00:52:33.000
um and the beat they put some bees over

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:33.900
this

00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:36.540
painting and they clustered around the

00:52:36.540 --> 00:52:38.520
the kind of the pollen area and of

00:52:38.520 --> 00:52:41.760
course there was no smell or or anything

00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:44.280
um which got me to think that

00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:46.380
and you know I love this feeling when I

00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:48.300
notice it is that you know the eyes of

00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:49.440
beauty

00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:53.760
animals you know bees also see beauty

00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:56.040
um and maybe that simplifies for them

00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:57.020
you know

00:52:57.020 --> 00:52:59.280
we wouldn't really be having the

00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.839
discussion I don't think about subject

00:53:00.839 --> 00:53:02.700
object

00:53:02.700 --> 00:53:04.859
when we're thinking about a bee

00:53:04.859 --> 00:53:07.319
following Beauty

00:53:07.319 --> 00:53:09.780
um and landing on a flower

00:53:09.780 --> 00:53:10.619
um

00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:14.160
and the bee isn't un unpicking the

00:53:14.160 --> 00:53:16.380
components of that beauty

00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:17.760
either

00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:19.440
um in the kind of pure obstruction way

00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:21.480
but

00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.640
somehow I

00:53:23.640 --> 00:53:26.640
I love that

00:53:26.640 --> 00:53:28.740
that recognition when when when I have

00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:30.780
it of

00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:33.359
or that feeling right um I'm not saying

00:53:33.359 --> 00:53:34.740
this is an absolute truth or anything

00:53:34.740 --> 00:53:37.859
but of how nature itself

00:53:37.859 --> 00:53:42.780
has this ability to see beauty you know

00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:44.880
praise Beauty

00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.619
um

00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:49.339
just

00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:53.700
yeah just just flourish somehow

00:53:53.700 --> 00:53:55.559
um and and I just wonder how that fits

00:53:55.559 --> 00:53:57.420
into it and maybe it simplifies it if we

00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:59.579
can think of a bee and a flower

00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:00.780
um and

00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:03.000
yeah and I somehow don't think that the

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.280
bee is just following the the scent of

00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.040
of the pollen let's say I think

00:54:08.040 --> 00:54:11.400
I think there's more to it

00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:13.200
yeah so

00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:16.500
this is a very big question We're Not

00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:18.660
Gonna I don't even know how to talk

00:54:18.660 --> 00:54:20.160
about it but

00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:22.280
um

00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.339
you know so when we use the word beauty

00:54:26.339 --> 00:54:27.180
um

00:54:27.180 --> 00:54:29.220
it's it's

00:54:29.220 --> 00:54:31.559
it's one of these pure abstractions

00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:33.240
right because you can say that's

00:54:33.240 --> 00:54:35.940
beautiful that's beautiful but you do

00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:37.920
what do they have in common and then you

00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.720
can only say Well they're beautiful

00:54:39.720 --> 00:54:42.119
and then you're like well because you're

00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.640
noticing something beneath or behind

00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:45.720
them

00:54:45.720 --> 00:54:48.000
so it's it and there's a real question

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.559
of whether the you know mathematicians

00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:54.839
they will say this formula is beautiful

00:54:54.839 --> 00:54:57.119
it's the same feeling as when you see

00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:59.579
beauty and so this is kind of curious

00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:01.260
right

00:55:01.260 --> 00:55:03.180
um and

00:55:03.180 --> 00:55:04.619
um so I'm just going to talk around what

00:55:04.619 --> 00:55:05.880
you said

00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.400
um so we know that bees are capable of

00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:11.220
abstraction right when they go back and

00:55:11.220 --> 00:55:13.380
they do their dance

00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:16.260
and the dance represents distance and

00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:19.319
direction to flower sources this is

00:55:19.319 --> 00:55:23.280
extremely complicated abstraction you

00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:25.140
know children don't grow up wiggling

00:55:25.140 --> 00:55:27.300
their butts and doing symbolic you know

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:28.920
they just go over there you know or

00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.300
something like that

00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:34.200
their Lim bees are limited by by their

00:55:34.200 --> 00:55:37.140
biology and yet they create incredible

00:55:37.140 --> 00:55:39.180
abstractions

00:55:39.180 --> 00:55:40.920
um so

00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:42.780
um also

00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:46.680
um abstractions are compressions so that

00:55:46.680 --> 00:55:48.780
instead of having to

00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:52.440
remember every single flower that looks

00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.359
like a flower they remember a template

00:55:54.359 --> 00:55:56.180
that looks like a flower

00:55:56.180 --> 00:55:58.859
you've seen these things with date with

00:55:58.859 --> 00:56:01.020
birds you can get

00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:04.319
baby birds like if if their mother has a

00:56:04.319 --> 00:56:07.020
beak that looks like this you know it's

00:56:07.020 --> 00:56:09.000
complicated and then you take something

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:12.839
that just has this Arc and this Arc

00:56:12.839 --> 00:56:15.839
you abstract it they're more because

00:56:15.839 --> 00:56:18.599
it's more Universal

00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:21.180
than all the possible kinds of Beaks

00:56:21.180 --> 00:56:23.579
they prefer it which means they're

00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:26.040
perceptually responding to the deeper

00:56:26.040 --> 00:56:29.040
pattern across all the examples of the

00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:32.359
pattern so we know that these phenomenon

00:56:32.359 --> 00:56:35.280
are that abstractions are perceptual

00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.980
phenomenon already in the animals the

00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:41.220
place sells in rats or a map an abstract

00:56:41.220 --> 00:56:43.859
map so

00:56:43.859 --> 00:56:46.920
so uh and I know so but and then Beauty

00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:48.780
has something to do with it but that's a

00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.599
that's a very philosophical question

00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:54.180
that's really there to you know to

00:56:54.180 --> 00:56:56.579
explore dialogically

00:56:56.579 --> 00:56:57.660
um

00:56:57.660 --> 00:57:00.240
so what's interesting about the fact

00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:02.940
that uh you know even at the level of

00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:05.040
the bees not a lowly animals quite

00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:07.680
sophisticated but it can't can't solve a

00:57:07.680 --> 00:57:09.660
lot of problems it's really limited by

00:57:09.660 --> 00:57:12.240
its morphology I mean it's only this big

00:57:12.240 --> 00:57:14.760
it only lives for a year you know blah

00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:16.079
blah but

00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:17.760
um but the abstractions are quite

00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:19.859
sophisticated

00:57:19.859 --> 00:57:21.300
um and

00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:24.780
but the thing is about humans you know

00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:28.980
the further we go into these modules

00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:32.040
the more uniquely human they are not

00:57:32.040 --> 00:57:36.660
that that that because as far as I know

00:57:36.660 --> 00:57:40.260
no other animal uses abstractions

00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:42.599
themselves as a bridge to discover other

00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:45.119
animals abstractions

00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:48.119
right so we look at a B we think oh that

00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:50.520
we we can get the hit all this

00:57:50.520 --> 00:57:52.559
scientific is discovered in the sense

00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:53.640
that

00:57:53.640 --> 00:57:57.420
that you see something and then you see

00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:00.240
the bees bringing in the other bees and

00:58:00.240 --> 00:58:01.740
then you see them through and you know

00:58:01.740 --> 00:58:04.020
you can just feel that the dance is a

00:58:04.020 --> 00:58:05.819
language

00:58:05.819 --> 00:58:07.680
but then we can use math and

00:58:07.680 --> 00:58:09.119
abstractions

00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:11.339
to understand the language because we

00:58:11.339 --> 00:58:14.180
can't feel

00:58:14.220 --> 00:58:17.579
what how the B talks but we can take the

00:58:17.579 --> 00:58:20.520
abstraction underneath it and enter into

00:58:20.520 --> 00:58:22.319
the abstraction

00:58:22.319 --> 00:58:24.420
then we could put it in a computer and

00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:26.640
simulate it or something like that as

00:58:26.640 --> 00:58:29.780
far as I can to this this being able to

00:58:29.780 --> 00:58:34.220
extract abstractions from nature

00:58:34.220 --> 00:58:36.420
manipulate at the level of abstraction

00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:39.180
and then use it I don't think you know

00:58:39.180 --> 00:58:41.280
this is something animals clearly don't

00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:43.680
do they clearly abstract in their

00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:45.599
relationship with nature

00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:48.000
but they're clearly as far as I can

00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.799
understand

00:58:48.799 --> 00:58:51.839
don't then operate on the obstructions

00:58:51.839 --> 00:58:55.200
at that at that level itself this is so

00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:57.619
this is now this is

00:58:57.619 --> 00:59:00.359
something to bear in mind as we go

00:59:00.359 --> 00:59:03.480
forward this particular difference so we

00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:06.240
know animals can simulate environments

00:59:06.240 --> 00:59:08.880
we know in dreams they can simulate

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.339
hypothetical environments

00:59:11.339 --> 00:59:14.040
we know they can obstruct what they

00:59:14.040 --> 00:59:16.559
don't do is simulate hypothetical

00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.079
abstractions

00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:21.540
like imaginary numbers

00:59:21.540 --> 00:59:24.000
and this is what humans do and when we

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.480
do it they're useful in the universe

00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:29.119
so

00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:32.160
abstractions or Perceptions in the in

00:59:32.160 --> 00:59:34.619
the real world

00:59:34.619 --> 00:59:36.839
we take them

00:59:36.839 --> 00:59:39.480
we simulate hypothetical abstractions

00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:42.000
and they transduce meaning back into the

00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.740
world because they're from the world to

00:59:43.740 --> 00:59:44.940
the world

00:59:44.940 --> 00:59:47.280
and as far as I was concerned those are

00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.260
two things that animals don't do they

00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:51.480
can't operate on the abstractions to

00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:52.980
decode

00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:56.700
other species abstractions

00:59:56.700 --> 00:59:59.099
um now they can decode other species

00:59:59.099 --> 01:00:01.500
languages but it's embodied it's not

01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:04.319
transliterated or trans you know deuced

01:00:04.319 --> 01:00:07.260
from abstraction to obstruction and they

01:00:07.260 --> 01:00:08.640
cannot

01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:11.880
simulate hypothetical abstractions they

01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:14.819
can simulate hypothetical environments

01:00:14.819 --> 01:00:16.980
through the use of like Place cells

01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:18.540
which are obstructions but they cannot

01:00:18.540 --> 01:00:21.359
simulate hypothetical abstractions

01:00:21.359 --> 01:00:24.960
now of course we build ai ai is very

01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:27.299
good better at simulating hypothetical

01:00:27.299 --> 01:00:32.099
abstractions than we are but this is the

01:00:32.099 --> 01:00:34.500
same thing we let the AI operate on the

01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:36.720
abstractions and then we watch the

01:00:36.720 --> 01:00:39.299
simulations it gets transduced back into

01:00:39.299 --> 01:00:41.599
a perceptual array

01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:44.760
so it's all these transduction the

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.220
transducer takes some one kind of energy

01:00:47.220 --> 01:00:49.680
and it creates a different kind of

01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:51.540
energy and the when it comes out right

01:00:51.540 --> 01:00:52.680
so

01:00:52.680 --> 01:00:55.520
the these are modes of transduction

01:00:55.520 --> 01:00:58.380
through nature to abstraction back to

01:00:58.380 --> 01:01:02.700
into nature or back into once I see the

01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:04.920
visual that is

01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.200
um so like the mandal group sets that

01:01:07.200 --> 01:01:10.500
are formed by computers right like I I

01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:13.079
see in nature I create the abstraction I

01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:15.240
put it in the computer and then it

01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:17.819
transduces from the extraction back to a

01:01:17.819 --> 01:01:21.119
visual that I can easily see again so

01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:23.700
that's what we're doing we're you see

01:01:23.700 --> 01:01:26.099
what I'm saying it's this and this is

01:01:26.099 --> 01:01:27.540
why

01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:29.760
it comes from the real

01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.059
gets abstracted and then it could be

01:01:32.059 --> 01:01:35.099
manipulated and then become real again

01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:38.400
because it comes from the real it's it's

01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:41.040
yeah I don't know does that make sense

01:01:41.040 --> 01:01:42.780
like these deeper principles we're

01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:44.099
trying to get at we're not trying to

01:01:44.099 --> 01:01:46.680
become mathematicians because for one

01:01:46.680 --> 01:01:49.319
thing I feel like I'm too old to uh try

01:01:49.319 --> 01:01:50.819
again but

01:01:50.819 --> 01:01:51.780
um

01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:53.460
we're trying to understand The Human

01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:57.180
Condition and the experience of you know

01:01:57.180 --> 01:02:00.140
yeah

01:02:01.740 --> 01:02:02.839
thank you

01:02:02.839 --> 01:02:07.020
sovani I did the experiment with the

01:02:07.020 --> 01:02:11.160
um Musical staves and

01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:14.400
drawing with my grandson and showed him

01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:17.460
the progression of the drawings

01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:19.380
and asked him if he could see what

01:02:19.380 --> 01:02:20.579
wasn't there

01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:23.940
and he was like oh yeah I see that I

01:02:23.940 --> 01:02:25.619
totally see that

01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:28.559
and to me that was the most

01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:31.500
um sort of experiential I didn't I

01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:32.880
haven't watched the videos yet I haven't

01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:35.640
read the whole thing but we got that far

01:02:35.640 --> 01:02:40.140
and that kind of encapsulated everything

01:02:40.140 --> 01:02:43.200
can you see what isn't there

01:02:43.200 --> 01:02:47.040
and that process of of the development

01:02:47.040 --> 01:02:50.480
of shape and line and disappearance

01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:53.880
and structure that emerged was really

01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.119
fun

01:02:56.240 --> 01:02:59.760
excellent I'm glad glad you you did that

01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:02.400
yeah and you know you can make it more

01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:04.559
or less obvious

01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:06.780
um but this is exactly what you're doing

01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:08.640
in this is it there or is it not there

01:03:08.640 --> 01:03:10.500
it's there as a rule

01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:13.440
but it's not there in in reality we

01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:16.020
would say and the ability to see that

01:03:16.020 --> 01:03:20.059
there's a rule operating is what

01:03:20.059 --> 01:03:22.440
mathematicians are doing that's the

01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:25.559
that's that's what they're doing

01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.740
yeah the constraint made it fun

01:03:28.740 --> 01:03:32.220
with the lines and then the sort of The

01:03:32.220 --> 01:03:34.680
Disappearance and then the other thing

01:03:34.680 --> 01:03:37.020
is I'm wondering if you've seen the man

01:03:37.020 --> 01:03:39.980
who knew Infinity

01:03:40.200 --> 01:03:42.420
yeah that's a if you haven't watched it

01:03:42.420 --> 01:03:44.280
it's just

01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.099
exactly what we're talking about this

01:03:47.099 --> 01:03:52.260
sense of where do we discover or invent

01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:55.260
a formula how do we understand Beauty

01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:58.200
how do we understand

01:03:58.200 --> 01:03:59.299
um

01:03:59.299 --> 01:04:02.160
that transduction

01:04:02.160 --> 01:04:06.480
from nature to you know this subject

01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:09.660
object in the space that starts to

01:04:09.660 --> 01:04:11.880
develop of awareness

01:04:11.880 --> 01:04:13.859
yeah and for him so different

01:04:13.859 --> 01:04:15.540
mathematicians the ones that are really

01:04:15.540 --> 01:04:16.859
great they

01:04:16.859 --> 01:04:18.780
felt experiences that they're perceiving

01:04:18.780 --> 01:04:20.460
something that's there

01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:23.339
it's very objective where you know it's

01:04:23.339 --> 01:04:25.500
very direct like a direct perception

01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:27.359
this is what I keep saying I just think

01:04:27.359 --> 01:04:29.040
it's the way the Mind enters or Canada

01:04:29.040 --> 01:04:31.140
into the world most of us are colorblind

01:04:31.140 --> 01:04:33.599
when it comes to math you know what not

01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:34.680
everybody

01:04:34.680 --> 01:04:38.520
is is wired that way

01:04:38.520 --> 01:04:40.619
um and I don't I think it's something

01:04:40.619 --> 01:04:43.559
that is parsed out pretty you know

01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.980
generically like there are people who

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:48.319
can run

01:04:48.319 --> 01:04:50.700
uh under a four minute mile and there

01:04:50.700 --> 01:04:52.020
are people that can't

01:04:52.020 --> 01:04:56.119
and not everybody who can does it but

01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:58.799
very few people no matter how hard they

01:04:58.799 --> 01:05:01.619
try you know these these top these

01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:05.040
there's significant Curves in The Human

01:05:05.040 --> 01:05:08.160
Condition and and most of us

01:05:08.160 --> 01:05:10.559
uh can get a hit like like doing that

01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:13.319
exercise and I'm glad you know it gives

01:05:13.319 --> 01:05:14.099
you

01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:16.380
it's the same with the card game you

01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:18.540
know it's like these this is the sense

01:05:18.540 --> 01:05:21.059
and then we do pure abstractions all the

01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:23.819
time but it's so obvious we can't even

01:05:23.819 --> 01:05:26.880
feel that we're doing it and then these

01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:29.760
people at the highest level

01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.339
um so

01:05:32.339 --> 01:05:33.359
um

01:05:33.359 --> 01:05:35.520
yeah I'm glad you did that I don't know

01:05:35.520 --> 01:05:37.799
if yeah

01:05:37.799 --> 01:05:38.940
um

01:05:38.940 --> 01:05:41.040
and doing it with the kids right yeah

01:05:41.040 --> 01:05:44.460
yeah it was just fun for him to

01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:46.740
look at that last

01:05:46.740 --> 01:05:50.040
piece and see what wasn't there and then

01:05:50.040 --> 01:05:54.319
I could see the wheels sort of turning

01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:02.040
illusions where they have the triangle

01:06:02.040 --> 01:06:05.160
and it's it's not complete so you supply

01:06:05.160 --> 01:06:08.220
it because that's not rule based in this

01:06:08.220 --> 01:06:11.099
experience it's it's it's not that we're

01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:14.460
completing something we're intuiting

01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:16.559
we're perceiving it's in the course

01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:19.859
content I show some paintings I did and

01:06:19.859 --> 01:06:22.319
then it gives us instructions and I used

01:06:22.319 --> 01:06:24.539
musical Stags because I had a book of

01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:27.539
them because I had

01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.819
fantasy that I was going to write my own

01:06:29.819 --> 01:06:31.920
music and I ended up using it as drawing

01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:33.180
instead

01:06:33.180 --> 01:06:37.920
um but uh you could have you could you

01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:42.839
could have any kind of you know multiple

01:06:42.839 --> 01:06:45.240
you know multiple things in different

01:06:45.240 --> 01:06:48.839
layers of of uh

01:06:48.839 --> 01:06:50.940
yeah

01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:53.180
yeah we had just looked in the library

01:06:53.180 --> 01:06:56.400
at one of those books with optical

01:06:56.400 --> 01:07:00.180
illusions and all the you know the

01:07:00.180 --> 01:07:03.720
things that come forward and Visually

01:07:03.720 --> 01:07:07.799
so it was it was all connected somehow

01:07:07.799 --> 01:07:10.500
yeah and it gives you this sense that

01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:12.180
you're singing

01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:14.460
and then you're seeing what's not there

01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:18.660
and that's the the organ of perception

01:07:18.660 --> 01:07:20.940
that enters

01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:24.660
the abstract what's not there Samuel

01:07:24.660 --> 01:07:27.119
yeah I just want to speak to something

01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:29.579
that the last task headed work because

01:07:29.579 --> 01:07:32.579
it's a new software environment and the

01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:33.839
thing I have to build I have to

01:07:33.839 --> 01:07:35.640
understand where it fits the attractions

01:07:35.640 --> 01:07:37.319
that are existing there

01:07:37.319 --> 01:07:40.079
so I just reflecting on their effects

01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:42.480
okay it was I had a lot of Joy like

01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:45.059
getting to see what's what's lying there

01:07:45.059 --> 01:07:47.819
what I'm not seeing and trying to make

01:07:47.819 --> 01:07:50.280
it see and then I can build this thing

01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:51.440
actually

01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:54.299
and then I found inconsistencies and

01:07:54.299 --> 01:07:56.160
like hidden layers all these kinds of

01:07:56.160 --> 01:07:58.559
stuff because it's like a little bit you

01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.579
won't believe the thing will probably

01:07:59.579 --> 01:08:04.099
build but it's there and then yeah

01:08:05.900 --> 01:08:08.160
it's fun

01:08:08.160 --> 01:08:10.319
and one of the things I hope we're all

01:08:10.319 --> 01:08:14.299
seeing about this course is that

01:08:14.520 --> 01:08:16.620
that you know what first we start with a

01:08:16.620 --> 01:08:18.480
sounds like a Prejudice and I can't keep

01:08:18.480 --> 01:08:20.339
saying we're gonna wherever we claim the

01:08:20.339 --> 01:08:22.259
mind we're reclaim this stuff as we go

01:08:22.259 --> 01:08:24.299
on because we're into like perception

01:08:24.299 --> 01:08:26.819
and stuff that we talk about is embodied

01:08:26.819 --> 01:08:28.980
but when you get to people that do

01:08:28.980 --> 01:08:30.719
coding for example

01:08:30.719 --> 01:08:33.779
they they we can understand that there's

01:08:33.779 --> 01:08:37.620
the whole the whole body is really

01:08:37.620 --> 01:08:41.279
being enacted and and the problem with

01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:44.100
our society is that

01:08:44.100 --> 01:08:46.980
we don't talk about coding like that we

01:08:46.980 --> 01:08:49.140
don't and so people start to get coders

01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:52.020
start to get like completely isolated

01:08:52.020 --> 01:08:54.540
from reality or something you know but

01:08:54.540 --> 01:08:56.460
like the joy that he was just saying

01:08:56.460 --> 01:08:59.940
like that he can we all can experience

01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:02.040
this thing that's there and not there

01:09:02.040 --> 01:09:04.440
and it's embodied and the bees do it and

01:09:04.440 --> 01:09:07.799
and and so now we're not so chalked up

01:09:07.799 --> 01:09:10.980
as humans you know and the coders aren't

01:09:10.980 --> 01:09:15.259
so like all the all the all the

01:09:15.259 --> 01:09:18.120
popular comments here around coders is

01:09:18.120 --> 01:09:21.299
that you know it's all not real and then

01:09:21.299 --> 01:09:23.339
sometimes that makes it not real for you

01:09:23.339 --> 01:09:27.660
you know like it and so this language is

01:09:27.660 --> 01:09:29.520
that there's something more

01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:31.940
comprehensive in The Human Condition

01:09:31.940 --> 01:09:38.219
uh that's that's uh happening that's

01:09:38.219 --> 01:09:41.880
yeah and it's does that is I just saw

01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:44.279
that you know the enthusiasm in what you

01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:47.819
were saying is uh

01:09:47.819 --> 01:09:50.160
yeah

01:09:50.160 --> 01:09:52.980
yeah it is awesome I mean I I really

01:09:52.980 --> 01:09:54.060
really

01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:56.760
um like lost a henchantment from program

01:09:56.760 --> 01:09:59.600
coding in Canada Canada

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:03.060
trying to find it again because it's

01:10:03.060 --> 01:10:05.040
still micro patients or money

01:10:05.040 --> 01:10:07.679
interesting and enjoy elections

01:10:07.679 --> 01:10:09.360
seeing this from the end angle and then

01:10:09.360 --> 01:10:11.820
like you said like getting a thin sense

01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:14.340
of what's in front of me it's just a new

01:10:14.340 --> 01:10:17.239
way to experience

01:10:17.820 --> 01:10:20.699
you know this was something

01:10:20.699 --> 01:10:22.760
important because

01:10:22.760 --> 01:10:25.920
his work on pattern language this was a

01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:28.560
long time ago I'm not sure if the new

01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:31.199
generation even talks like this but his

01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:34.159
his work on pattern language inspired

01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:38.340
object-oriented programming in the 80s

01:10:38.340 --> 01:10:40.820
or something I don't even know if that's

01:10:40.820 --> 01:10:44.520
current or any anymore but he gave this

01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:46.679
so he was invited to give this speech at

01:10:46.679 --> 01:10:50.280
uppsala the object-oriented programming

01:10:50.280 --> 01:10:55.920
Society or something yearly uh thing and

01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:59.280
um have do you know this document

01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:03.000
okay I'll I'll link it to a comment on

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.860
the course notes

01:11:04.860 --> 01:11:06.840
um and I might be able to find the video

01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:08.580
but

01:11:08.580 --> 01:11:12.120
he was very serious he said

01:11:12.120 --> 01:11:14.219
you know he said

01:11:14.219 --> 01:11:18.020
that the power to transform like

01:11:18.020 --> 01:11:20.520
Christopher Alexander is very serious

01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:22.020
about the fact

01:11:22.020 --> 01:11:24.960
that the built environment

01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:29.120
the human environment he wanted it to

01:11:29.120 --> 01:11:32.580
create more life so architecture but he

01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:33.600
said

01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:37.800
that software we're gonna be living in

01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:39.900
more and more software built

01:11:39.900 --> 01:11:41.340
environments

01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:43.860
and it was very important that the

01:11:43.860 --> 01:11:47.100
future that coders understood that the

01:11:47.100 --> 01:11:48.900
future was in their hands

01:11:48.900 --> 01:11:51.179
right this kind of built environment the

01:11:51.179 --> 01:11:53.159
built environment of the mind or the

01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:55.920
social sphere let's say

01:11:55.920 --> 01:11:58.199
and he goes on and on and at the end

01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:01.679
he's like but I'm afraid you all

01:12:01.679 --> 01:12:06.320
think of yourselves as Hired Guns

01:12:08.940 --> 01:12:12.060
not as Transformers of the future

01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:14.580
that you know he's it's this huge

01:12:14.580 --> 01:12:16.679
Preamble and then he has to say pardon

01:12:16.679 --> 01:12:18.480
me but

01:12:18.480 --> 01:12:21.360
you think of yourselves as Hired Guns

01:12:21.360 --> 01:12:24.000
and he was trying to say

01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:25.679
that because

01:12:25.679 --> 01:12:29.280
you're you're actually invested in the

01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:33.600
work of creating the pattern languages

01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:37.320
that you that that this is the most

01:12:37.320 --> 01:12:39.020
significant

01:12:39.020 --> 01:12:41.760
revolutionary power ever in The Human

01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:44.060
Condition

01:12:45.120 --> 01:12:47.699
and this nobody wants to tell you that

01:12:47.699 --> 01:12:49.920
the people you work for they don't want

01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:52.020
to tell you that

01:12:52.020 --> 01:12:54.780
of course that's what Architects started

01:12:54.780 --> 01:12:57.060
to think of themselves as just

01:12:57.060 --> 01:12:59.820
professions right so I'll send you the

01:12:59.820 --> 01:13:00.960
link

01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:01.679
um

01:13:01.679 --> 01:13:03.960
it was very powerful when he did it of

01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:05.520
course you know this was at the

01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:08.040
beginning of the internet when

01:13:08.040 --> 01:13:10.620
um when a lot of young people were

01:13:10.620 --> 01:13:12.659
thinking of themselves like that and

01:13:12.659 --> 01:13:14.400
then the economy grew and stuff like

01:13:14.400 --> 01:13:16.440
that but I'll send it to you

01:13:16.440 --> 01:13:18.239
um so there's a direct link between his

01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:21.659
work he saw a direct link between what

01:13:21.659 --> 01:13:24.679
he was trying to innovate in

01:13:24.679 --> 01:13:26.360
architecture

01:13:26.360 --> 01:13:29.159
and this the software coming software

01:13:29.159 --> 01:13:31.640
Revolution

01:13:47.040 --> 01:13:49.500
yeah I had a friend who was a coder he

01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:51.360
was so into Christopher Alexander's work

01:13:51.360 --> 01:13:53.100
he said

01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:55.739
older older guy

01:13:55.739 --> 01:13:58.260
he was freely Blown Away by someone who

01:13:58.260 --> 01:14:01.380
set out to solve design problems

01:14:01.380 --> 01:14:04.440
in the world of building things could

01:14:04.440 --> 01:14:06.540
have isolated principles that were very

01:14:06.540 --> 01:14:08.580
very applicable to his

01:14:08.580 --> 01:14:10.920
his work as a coder

01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:12.719
and for a while I think the pattern

01:14:12.719 --> 01:14:15.060
language was kind of like the Bible of

01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:17.940
the object-oriented kind of programming

01:14:17.940 --> 01:14:20.120
world

01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:25.620
yeah this reminds me of base camp

01:14:25.620 --> 01:14:28.320
project management and there's the lead

01:14:28.320 --> 01:14:30.120
designer there he was very inspired

01:14:30.120 --> 01:14:32.580
because for example Alexander and he

01:14:32.580 --> 01:14:36.000
created this new mythology Shape Up that

01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:37.980
they use in their company and distribute

01:14:37.980 --> 01:14:41.219
I think inspired many people like kind

01:14:41.219 --> 01:14:43.080
of a replacement to the course crumb

01:14:43.080 --> 01:14:46.679
days approach and yeah I remember that a

01:14:46.679 --> 01:14:49.260
couple of years ago it was interesting

01:14:49.260 --> 01:14:53.420
yeah it was really completely into okay

01:14:53.420 --> 01:14:58.040
yeah it's not dead it's just

01:14:58.080 --> 01:14:59.640
the community

01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.179
reminder and if if the community got a

01:15:03.179 --> 01:15:05.400
constant reminder from like us people

01:15:05.400 --> 01:15:06.960
who don't know how to code like the

01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:08.580
people that don't know how to code they

01:15:08.580 --> 01:15:10.340
always usually say like

01:15:10.340 --> 01:15:12.780
dismissive things and we complain about

01:15:12.780 --> 01:15:15.300
the social media that you guys invent

01:15:15.300 --> 01:15:18.420
and all this stuff but if the society at

01:15:18.420 --> 01:15:19.739
Large

01:15:19.739 --> 01:15:22.560
fed this message more I think it would

01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:25.320
be very helpful you know

01:15:25.320 --> 01:15:27.380
um

01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:30.840
can you like that

01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:33.480
this message like this phrase like just

01:15:33.480 --> 01:15:37.800
like a quick compression of that like

01:15:37.800 --> 01:15:40.460
definition

01:15:42.020 --> 01:15:45.900
yeah the message is that

01:15:45.900 --> 01:15:48.360
you you know there's extremely extreme

01:15:48.360 --> 01:15:50.400
revolutionary power in what you know how

01:15:50.400 --> 01:15:52.199
to do

01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:54.840
um that

01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:56.900
um

01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:05.159
it's an opportunity for tremendous

01:16:05.159 --> 01:16:07.199
leadership

01:16:07.199 --> 01:16:11.880
and yet given the kinds of this is not

01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:14.719
very succinct

01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:18.780
um your day-to-day reality is you get

01:16:18.780 --> 01:16:22.140
you're earn a paycheck right that that

01:16:22.140 --> 01:16:25.199
you work you work for someone and so you

01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:28.560
stop look you stop seeing the incredible

01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:30.659
power

01:16:30.659 --> 01:16:34.860
um that your community has to uh

01:16:34.860 --> 01:16:36.960
change society in a completely different

01:16:36.960 --> 01:16:39.260
direction

01:16:39.360 --> 01:16:42.480
um so

01:16:46.739 --> 01:16:48.780
and there's only of so many people who

01:16:48.780 --> 01:16:51.179
can do that you know the the rest of us

01:16:51.179 --> 01:16:53.100
have to sit back and

01:16:53.100 --> 01:16:56.340
either complain or encourage you

01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:57.360
um

01:16:57.360 --> 01:17:00.179
it's uh it's both a burden you know an

01:17:00.179 --> 01:17:02.159
obligation and a burden and a

01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:04.800
responsibility and a privilege

01:17:04.800 --> 01:17:05.760
um

01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:07.679
so

01:17:07.679 --> 01:17:10.380
something like that

01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:12.840
it's to reinvent the perception of

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.640
yourself this is what Christopher

01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:19.760
Alexander was trying to communicate

01:17:20.940 --> 01:17:23.699
bunny I think if you're when you said

01:17:23.699 --> 01:17:25.800
we're in a flash mob all the time

01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:28.560
something like that that we're all

01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:31.440
wielding that power but we're wielding

01:17:31.440 --> 01:17:34.860
it unconsciously and recreating patterns

01:17:34.860 --> 01:17:37.800
that you know that we've inherited or

01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:41.640
whatever but so

01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:44.460
and so we all have an opportunity to be

01:17:44.460 --> 01:17:48.239
heroic and to be leaders by

01:17:48.239 --> 01:17:49.020
um

01:17:49.020 --> 01:17:51.780
by stopping in our tracks

01:17:51.780 --> 01:17:54.420
and

01:17:54.420 --> 01:17:59.219
and giving and letting ourselves have

01:17:59.219 --> 01:18:02.120
that power like

01:18:02.120 --> 01:18:05.719
Awakening to that power

01:18:05.719 --> 01:18:09.920
to choose patterns or to choose

01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:12.719
how yeah I guess I don't have any more

01:18:12.719 --> 01:18:14.159
words than that but

01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:16.679
yeah that's a powerful thing that we

01:18:16.679 --> 01:18:18.420
came up with that we're all part of the

01:18:18.420 --> 01:18:20.520
flashlight but we just don't know it

01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:24.480
right but a complete circle here

01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:27.300
something that you were saying that and

01:18:27.300 --> 01:18:29.760
then Aaron was saying um

01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:32.640
this justification and we were saying

01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:35.640
like uh here's another thing to feed

01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:39.500
into what sandals question is is like

01:18:39.500 --> 01:18:42.739
the world is not going to

01:18:42.739 --> 01:18:46.320
uh be determined by justification

01:18:46.320 --> 01:18:48.780
systems anymore

01:18:48.780 --> 01:18:49.560
um

01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:51.120
um you know I said we're in the we're in

01:18:51.120 --> 01:18:53.100
the business of persuading right we want

01:18:53.100 --> 01:18:54.780
the world to be more like this and less

01:18:54.780 --> 01:18:57.120
like that we just we all have to admit

01:18:57.120 --> 01:19:01.679
that and many of us so so you can move

01:19:01.679 --> 01:19:04.080
from justification to storytelling and

01:19:04.080 --> 01:19:06.480
these other things like Aaron said but

01:19:06.480 --> 01:19:09.480
in general what moves most people today

01:19:09.480 --> 01:19:12.679
are the algorithms

01:19:12.900 --> 01:19:16.140
and do the algorithms make people move

01:19:16.140 --> 01:19:18.780
in the direction that you want more like

01:19:18.780 --> 01:19:20.520
this and less like that or do they make

01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:22.560
them out people move in a different way

01:19:22.560 --> 01:19:26.780
that's basically it you know so

01:19:26.780 --> 01:19:29.880
so that's an interesting question how do

01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:31.620
you design I would call them action

01:19:31.620 --> 01:19:33.800
protocols we'll get to be calling

01:19:33.800 --> 01:19:37.800
algorithms as action protocols so

01:19:37.800 --> 01:19:40.140
um and the app they should they should

01:19:40.140 --> 01:19:42.480
the protocols should be for actions that

01:19:42.480 --> 01:19:44.640
you want more like this and less like

01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:47.640
that not the whole thing

01:19:47.640 --> 01:19:49.199
um so

01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:53.580
if you design software for that so that

01:19:53.580 --> 01:19:55.980
people take more their actions are more

01:19:55.980 --> 01:19:58.679
like this more likely to be this and

01:19:58.679 --> 01:20:00.600
less likely to be that that's the

01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:02.040
language that the algorithms can

01:20:02.040 --> 01:20:04.199
understand right more likely and less

01:20:04.199 --> 01:20:05.480
likely

01:20:05.480 --> 01:20:07.320
so

01:20:07.320 --> 01:20:08.880
um

01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:11.699
that's an interesting question this is

01:20:11.699 --> 01:20:13.679
this is I'm trying to write about this

01:20:13.679 --> 01:20:16.260
in a post called that the Igor Gore and

01:20:16.260 --> 01:20:18.239
the cyborgore

01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:21.060
where the eager Gore is the action

01:20:21.060 --> 01:20:23.520
protocols that are operating already

01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:24.840
today

01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:29.840
so capitalism is an action protocol

01:20:30.080 --> 01:20:33.900
and and this is this is part of this

01:20:33.900 --> 01:20:36.420
course because of the introduction we're

01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:37.800
getting a new theory of the body is

01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:39.179
going to heavily rely on action

01:20:39.179 --> 01:20:42.060
protocols so capitalism is an action

01:20:42.060 --> 01:20:44.480
protocol because

01:20:44.480 --> 01:20:47.540
ninety percent of the people

01:20:47.540 --> 01:20:51.120
solve their resource needs through one

01:20:51.120 --> 01:20:53.880
action protocol and that is Global

01:20:53.880 --> 01:20:56.100
Financial system it's it's the only

01:20:56.100 --> 01:20:58.320
lever that ninety percent of the people

01:20:58.320 --> 01:21:02.159
can pull right like

01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:05.219
and since that's the case then you get

01:21:05.219 --> 01:21:07.500
this phenomenon that is as if there's an

01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:09.659
eager Gore or a mass Consciousness

01:21:09.659 --> 01:21:12.540
operating

01:21:12.540 --> 01:21:15.239
that scale

01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:16.620
so

01:21:16.620 --> 01:21:19.760
the question is can we design and so

01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:24.260
increasingly that lever is

01:21:24.260 --> 01:21:28.080
uh intermediated by software

01:21:28.080 --> 01:21:31.140
so what if you could make a lever that's

01:21:31.140 --> 01:21:34.260
a software that intermediates my need

01:21:34.260 --> 01:21:37.620
with an action that satisfies it

01:21:37.620 --> 01:21:40.860
but it's an action that's more likely

01:21:40.860 --> 01:21:43.199
than what I want and less likely the one

01:21:43.199 --> 01:21:45.800
I don't want

01:21:46.620 --> 01:21:49.440
so that would be the cyborg adore the

01:21:49.440 --> 01:21:51.420
benevolent

01:21:51.420 --> 01:21:53.159
uh

01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:55.980
in the malevolent mediator of all my

01:21:55.980 --> 01:21:58.520
actions

01:21:59.820 --> 01:22:02.580
um this is an interesting this is an

01:22:02.580 --> 01:22:04.679
interesting question

01:22:04.679 --> 01:22:06.500
I don't care I still want the book

01:22:06.500 --> 01:22:08.820
behind the scenes

01:22:08.820 --> 01:22:11.340
how I get the book

01:22:11.340 --> 01:22:14.340
it biases ways in which are more like

01:22:14.340 --> 01:22:17.040
this and less like that of course that's

01:22:17.040 --> 01:22:19.880
what the algorithms buy us now they bias

01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:23.520
profit and this over this and that but

01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:26.159
it could easily be designed to bias

01:22:26.159 --> 01:22:30.260
actions along a different gradient

01:22:32.940 --> 01:22:35.880
so something like that is

01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:36.900
um

01:22:36.900 --> 01:22:39.840
part of this conversation

01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:41.820
and you're right people that built base

01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:44.219
camp and Hollow chain those guys are

01:22:44.219 --> 01:22:46.320
asking this question over I don't think

01:22:46.320 --> 01:22:48.840
their product is that good they're much

01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:52.140
more like philosophy coders but they ask

01:22:52.140 --> 01:22:54.780
these questions over and over and over

01:22:54.780 --> 01:22:56.400
again

01:22:56.400 --> 01:22:58.440
um

01:22:58.440 --> 01:23:00.980
yeah

01:23:06.840 --> 01:23:09.840
oh

01:23:11.040 --> 01:23:14.159
then my dog's only asking Bear where

01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:17.300
bear where

01:23:37.679 --> 01:23:41.600
you're muted Samuel

01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:14.040
something I'm kind of stuck on is this

01:24:14.040 --> 01:24:16.920
discovered invented

01:24:16.920 --> 01:24:20.460
thing I'm still there

01:24:20.460 --> 01:24:22.140
and this might be very simplistic but

01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:25.280
there's something about like we discover

01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:28.199
we can discover a thing that isn't there

01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:31.380
but we invent how to describe it

01:24:31.380 --> 01:24:35.600
and I'm I'm seeing

01:24:36.360 --> 01:24:39.060
these equations these algorithms

01:24:39.060 --> 01:24:42.480
like metaphors that are as close to the

01:24:42.480 --> 01:24:45.239
source as they can be but they're still

01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:46.739
metaphors

01:24:46.739 --> 01:24:48.900
I don't know if that makes any sense but

01:24:48.900 --> 01:24:51.780
the symbols that are described right the

01:24:51.780 --> 01:24:54.360
equation the algorithm the

01:24:54.360 --> 01:24:55.800
they're not the thing that we're

01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:57.840
describing

01:24:57.840 --> 01:25:00.540
there is as close as we can get to it

01:25:00.540 --> 01:25:02.340
maybe

01:25:02.340 --> 01:25:04.440
or as clean as we could get but they're

01:25:04.440 --> 01:25:06.900
still not it so in that sense it's still

01:25:06.900 --> 01:25:08.580
there is still some cross modal

01:25:08.580 --> 01:25:11.239
metaphorical

01:25:12.179 --> 01:25:14.659
distance

01:25:14.820 --> 01:25:17.219
so that's where my but there's some

01:25:17.219 --> 01:25:20.880
creativity perhaps as well in how we

01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:23.940
um choose to make these these abstract

01:25:23.940 --> 01:25:25.679
metaphors

01:25:25.679 --> 01:25:28.860
yeah so the road to a pure abstraction

01:25:28.860 --> 01:25:30.900
is filled with cross mode

01:25:30.900 --> 01:25:33.900
thought experiments and it's filled with

01:25:33.900 --> 01:25:36.239
these other things unless you're like

01:25:36.239 --> 01:25:38.280
the guy you're discovering Infinity like

01:25:38.280 --> 01:25:39.900
some of these kids are born and they

01:25:39.900 --> 01:25:41.340
just they you know there's something

01:25:41.340 --> 01:25:45.239
weird going on there but the key to the

01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:47.460
question

01:25:47.460 --> 01:25:50.219
and I I do have a presentation that I

01:25:50.219 --> 01:25:52.380
did on it for like Freaky Friday I think

01:25:52.380 --> 01:25:54.480
I'll try to link the Freaky Friday

01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:57.380
presentation

01:25:57.719 --> 01:25:58.560
um

01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:00.239
is

01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:03.600
this notion we're gonna go back to it we

01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:06.300
we discovered this in

01:26:06.300 --> 01:26:09.179
the perceptual you notice the perception

01:26:09.179 --> 01:26:12.420
thing is a big big thing

01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:16.020
um we is didn't it's a it's a question

01:26:16.020 --> 01:26:19.260
of not whether it's discovered or not

01:26:19.260 --> 01:26:23.360
discovered but adequate participation

01:26:24.020 --> 01:26:29.159
to see a sub you know to see

01:26:29.159 --> 01:26:30.360
um

01:26:30.360 --> 01:26:33.120
a one-celled organism

01:26:33.120 --> 01:26:35.580
adequate participation means I have to

01:26:35.580 --> 01:26:38.580
invent a telescope

01:26:38.580 --> 01:26:41.880
right so the perceptual organ is the

01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:44.280
whole scientific technological progress

01:26:44.280 --> 01:26:48.380
that led to lenses that led to to

01:26:48.380 --> 01:26:51.780
telescopes that that is the organ of

01:26:51.780 --> 01:26:54.239
perception it's it's my eyes that look

01:26:54.239 --> 01:26:57.080
through in the world that I'm looking at

01:26:57.080 --> 01:27:00.420
and adequate participation to see the

01:27:00.420 --> 01:27:01.920
Higgs boson

01:27:01.920 --> 01:27:05.100
the organ of perception is huge socially

01:27:05.100 --> 01:27:07.800
extended in space and time

01:27:07.800 --> 01:27:11.280
so we changed the question of is it

01:27:11.280 --> 01:27:15.900
invented or discovered to what is the

01:27:15.900 --> 01:27:18.600
um what's adequate

01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:21.900
part you know everything has an ad a

01:27:21.900 --> 01:27:24.060
level of participation that's adequate

01:27:24.060 --> 01:27:26.900
to the task

01:27:27.780 --> 01:27:31.679
so there's so uh and then you're going

01:27:31.679 --> 01:27:33.120
to ask me well is it invented or

01:27:33.120 --> 01:27:35.060
discovered and I'm trying to say change

01:27:35.060 --> 01:27:37.980
the question into the inventive

01:27:37.980 --> 01:27:40.199
convention part is the part that

01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:43.580
requires a lot of participation

01:27:43.940 --> 01:27:46.940
the the

01:27:48.360 --> 01:27:51.360
the adequacy required is set by the

01:27:51.360 --> 01:27:54.380
thing you're discovering

01:28:00.120 --> 01:28:03.179
so if I was blind

01:28:03.179 --> 01:28:05.400
and

01:28:05.400 --> 01:28:09.659
I see things with my hands am I

01:28:09.659 --> 01:28:12.360
inventing you know I'm just there's just

01:28:12.360 --> 01:28:14.100
different kind of participation that's

01:28:14.100 --> 01:28:16.380
real hard

01:28:16.380 --> 01:28:18.380
um

01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:25.199
do blind people see words with their

01:28:25.199 --> 01:28:27.480
hands when they read Braille

01:28:27.480 --> 01:28:30.000
or did we invent you know it's like it's

01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:33.659
just this question of participation

01:28:33.659 --> 01:28:36.300
that how much participation is quiet is

01:28:36.300 --> 01:28:39.300
set by something real

01:28:39.300 --> 01:28:41.159
um but the participation that is

01:28:41.159 --> 01:28:43.380
required is part of inventiveness you

01:28:43.380 --> 01:28:45.300
have to be creative like I can't see it

01:28:45.300 --> 01:28:46.980
I can't see it what else am I gonna do

01:28:46.980 --> 01:28:50.880
you know I gotta it requires

01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:53.520
put more participation

01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:56.040
and then what we say is that whole thing

01:28:56.040 --> 01:28:59.360
is the organ of perception

01:29:00.020 --> 01:29:02.219
and that would just be you know it's

01:29:02.219 --> 01:29:04.860
just changing the frame of the question

01:29:04.860 --> 01:29:05.940
because

01:29:05.940 --> 01:29:08.159
it's not because when we limit it to

01:29:08.159 --> 01:29:10.199
that other question it's just a duality

01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:12.540
and because it's not a dualistic the

01:29:12.540 --> 01:29:14.520
answer is not dualistic you can't you

01:29:14.520 --> 01:29:15.600
can't

01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:18.120
whereas adequate participation is an

01:29:18.120 --> 01:29:20.719
entanglement

01:29:24.080 --> 01:29:28.219
exactly and on and on and on

01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:30.960
this is why a lot of people you know

01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.659
people think most of the inventions that

01:29:33.659 --> 01:29:38.400
the uh that people uh invent are are

01:29:38.400 --> 01:29:41.219
um our uh

01:29:41.219 --> 01:29:44.000
what are they called

01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:47.400
like mistakes you know like they'll

01:29:47.400 --> 01:29:49.980
invent some guys playing around and he's

01:29:49.980 --> 01:29:51.540
trying to do one thing and then he finds

01:29:51.540 --> 01:29:54.179
the thing is really really sticky and he

01:29:54.179 --> 01:29:55.739
and he says oh I could use this Market

01:29:55.739 --> 01:29:57.239
as tape

01:29:57.239 --> 01:30:00.480
so just tinkering around

01:30:00.480 --> 01:30:04.159
um is very inventive

01:30:06.480 --> 01:30:08.940
well that reminds me of the um the tool

01:30:08.940 --> 01:30:11.400
that Phoebe was describing

01:30:11.400 --> 01:30:12.719
um and for those of you who don't know

01:30:12.719 --> 01:30:14.699
it there's like this there used to be

01:30:14.699 --> 01:30:16.980
like hand axes right and it'll be like a

01:30:16.980 --> 01:30:18.480
stone and one Edge would be sharpened

01:30:18.480 --> 01:30:20.340
and we would use it for cutting digging

01:30:20.340 --> 01:30:23.400
and this tool that rich showed us was a

01:30:23.400 --> 01:30:25.980
teardropped hand ax but it was sharp

01:30:25.980 --> 01:30:28.320
everywhere so it's actually not

01:30:28.320 --> 01:30:30.840
functional like you put any pressure on

01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:32.280
it you're gonna cut your hand but I

01:30:32.280 --> 01:30:33.300
imagine

01:30:33.300 --> 01:30:35.400
making a hand ax and then having this

01:30:35.400 --> 01:30:38.219
idea of like what if I just keep going

01:30:38.219 --> 01:30:40.440
and I just sharpen it all the way around

01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:42.719
and all of a sudden I have this object

01:30:42.719 --> 01:30:45.139
that

01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:49.679
it's a it's a

01:30:49.679 --> 01:30:51.840
I can't use it but it shows me something

01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:55.500
like wow what if there was a circle with

01:30:55.500 --> 01:30:56.820
Center that was everywhere in a

01:30:56.820 --> 01:30:58.320
circumference that was nowhere it's one

01:30:58.320 --> 01:30:59.940
of those kind of things like this object

01:30:59.940 --> 01:31:02.820
represents like

01:31:02.820 --> 01:31:05.040
something unthought of before but I

01:31:05.040 --> 01:31:06.360
think of

01:31:06.360 --> 01:31:08.100
how that was designed it was probably

01:31:08.100 --> 01:31:10.500
just by tinkering right playing around

01:31:10.500 --> 01:31:12.239
participating with this thing and then

01:31:12.239 --> 01:31:15.000
seeing what was inside of it

01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:15.900
um

01:31:15.900 --> 01:31:19.280
what was inside of that rock

01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:35.360
the other thing I want to say is that

01:31:35.580 --> 01:31:38.400
um you know how we were saying that

01:31:38.400 --> 01:31:40.679
these Elite like the man who knows

01:31:40.679 --> 01:31:43.199
Infinity they they experience numbers

01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:46.380
more as objects and real things

01:31:46.380 --> 01:31:49.380
this gives them an automatic Advantage

01:31:49.380 --> 01:31:52.980
because this is what we've evolved to do

01:31:52.980 --> 01:31:55.940
is to

01:31:55.940 --> 01:31:59.159
have concrete operations on things and

01:31:59.159 --> 01:32:00.840
tools and things

01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:04.199
and so the these people's experiences

01:32:04.199 --> 01:32:08.520
with the virtual things in their head is

01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:11.280
like they can pull that muscle that's

01:32:11.280 --> 01:32:14.400
just like using concrete operations and

01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:15.659
for a lot of us

01:32:15.659 --> 01:32:18.600
we have to translate it into symbolic

01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:22.199
and then there's rules this this thing

01:32:22.199 --> 01:32:24.179
means a rule whereas for them they're

01:32:24.179 --> 01:32:26.100
just it's it's just like they're

01:32:26.100 --> 01:32:28.320
grabbing one thing and another thing and

01:32:28.320 --> 01:32:30.780
making this paper you know so something

01:32:30.780 --> 01:32:35.940
about it is reduced to the the task

01:32:35.940 --> 01:32:38.520
demand of concrete operations in these

01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:40.199
people

01:32:40.199 --> 01:32:42.300
um so

01:32:42.300 --> 01:32:45.020
um yeah

01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:52.860
when you say reduced to the concrete

01:32:52.860 --> 01:32:55.620
demands of concrete operations

01:32:55.620 --> 01:32:57.840
I love that expression and then you

01:32:57.840 --> 01:32:59.280
think about this

01:32:59.280 --> 01:33:03.960
teardrop rock that isn't usable you

01:33:03.960 --> 01:33:07.380
can't reduce it to a concrete whatever

01:33:07.380 --> 01:33:08.820
it was you just said

01:33:08.820 --> 01:33:10.500
um because

01:33:10.500 --> 01:33:13.560
um and so it sits there

01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:17.100
maybe as um

01:33:17.100 --> 01:33:20.040
as something new that you don't yet know

01:33:20.040 --> 01:33:23.100
how to use and it sort of it keeps

01:33:23.100 --> 01:33:28.139
pushing away a forcing sort of drop drop

01:33:28.139 --> 01:33:31.020
away all the ways that you know how to

01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:33.360
do stuff because it won't work so it's

01:33:33.360 --> 01:33:36.179
it's a um you know it's a catalyst for

01:33:36.179 --> 01:33:39.360
beyond beyond beyond

01:33:39.360 --> 01:33:42.420
yeah and then what happens is

01:33:42.420 --> 01:33:46.460
the first person who invented

01:33:48.060 --> 01:33:50.820
someone else just has to learn to hit

01:33:50.820 --> 01:33:54.000
the thing this way 15 times so everyone

01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.400
else can reproduce it just by doing

01:33:56.400 --> 01:33:58.280
concrete operations

01:33:58.280 --> 01:34:01.800
and same with the calculator

01:34:01.800 --> 01:34:04.560
anyone can learn to push buttons

01:34:04.560 --> 01:34:06.960
so now I can do square roots of huge

01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:08.520
numbers

01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:12.300
not because I can handle abstractions

01:34:12.300 --> 01:34:14.900
but because someone has

01:34:14.900 --> 01:34:17.639
transduced it into concrete operations

01:34:17.639 --> 01:34:20.760
simple rules to do with my body

01:34:20.760 --> 01:34:23.580
this is also what we're going to see is

01:34:23.580 --> 01:34:25.500
collective intelligence

01:34:25.500 --> 01:34:30.659
it's the the unique and rare

01:34:30.659 --> 01:34:33.600
um uh Discovery invention of something

01:34:33.600 --> 01:34:37.320
that's not there then becomes transduced

01:34:37.320 --> 01:34:41.040
into simple concrete operations for

01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:43.639
everyone else

01:34:44.280 --> 01:34:47.040
does that make sense like and this is

01:34:47.040 --> 01:34:48.659
called collective intelligence so

01:34:48.659 --> 01:34:51.540
there's very rare to discover and then

01:34:51.540 --> 01:34:53.400
something non-existent

01:34:53.400 --> 01:34:57.960
but civilization leaps forward because

01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:01.699
we know how then to translate that into

01:35:01.699 --> 01:35:05.880
simple operations that everyone can do

01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:08.340
without knowing anything about the

01:35:08.340 --> 01:35:10.980
Insight that or the insights that made

01:35:10.980 --> 01:35:13.739
this thing possible

01:35:13.739 --> 01:35:15.840
so now an idiot

01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:19.260
can push a button and send off a nuclear

01:35:19.260 --> 01:35:20.280
weapon

01:35:20.280 --> 01:35:24.300
so this is also problematic in terms of

01:35:24.300 --> 01:35:29.420
uh decoupling intelligence from

01:35:29.940 --> 01:35:33.380
agency but

01:35:35.639 --> 01:35:38.100
right it took an Oppenheimer and and

01:35:38.100 --> 01:35:42.120
Company to make the bomb and then an

01:35:42.120 --> 01:35:43.920
idiot can sit in the White House and

01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:46.500
Destroy half the world

01:35:46.500 --> 01:35:49.500
foreign

01:35:55.080 --> 01:35:57.060
I'm in the dark ages of simple

01:35:57.060 --> 01:35:59.780
operations

01:36:00.300 --> 01:36:04.699
turning a thread into a sweater

01:36:05.040 --> 01:36:06.960
you know some of the first calculators

01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:10.400
in Egypt were string string calculators

01:36:10.400 --> 01:36:12.659
tying knots

01:36:12.659 --> 01:36:14.699
because there's a there's math in it

01:36:14.699 --> 01:36:16.739
there's math into

01:36:16.739 --> 01:36:19.520
knitting

01:36:25.020 --> 01:36:27.120
I'm thinking of like

01:36:27.120 --> 01:36:29.280
simple operations or simple things to do

01:36:29.280 --> 01:36:31.020
with your body and like monastic life

01:36:31.020 --> 01:36:34.560
right everyone's gonna sit down

01:36:34.560 --> 01:36:36.719
at the same time everyone's going to eat

01:36:36.719 --> 01:36:37.920
their food at the same time we're all

01:36:37.920 --> 01:36:39.719
going to go into the meditation Hall and

01:36:39.719 --> 01:36:42.360
sit in a particular way very still for

01:36:42.360 --> 01:36:44.280
this period of time

01:36:44.280 --> 01:36:46.400
um

01:36:46.860 --> 01:36:48.840
and I I guess theoretically that will

01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:51.360
produce Insight doesn't always but

01:36:51.360 --> 01:36:54.020
it does

01:36:54.239 --> 01:36:56.580
does create something

01:36:56.580 --> 01:37:00.360
some kind of sense of unity at least

01:37:00.360 --> 01:37:02.219
for a sense of belonging for the

01:37:02.219 --> 01:37:05.120
participants in it

01:37:12.060 --> 01:37:15.980
I think I put these in there

01:37:18.239 --> 01:37:20.639
well I had all these Tech these games

01:37:20.639 --> 01:37:22.620
we're gonna play yes trying to find one

01:37:22.620 --> 01:37:27.080
that we can maybe play in 10 minutes

01:37:27.500 --> 01:37:30.120
I was also thinking of I I used to work

01:37:30.120 --> 01:37:33.659
with a choreographer Carol langstaff she

01:37:33.659 --> 01:37:36.600
was really big into flocking

01:37:36.600 --> 01:37:38.159
so she developed a lot of her

01:37:38.159 --> 01:37:39.500
choreography

01:37:39.500 --> 01:37:41.460
based on

01:37:41.460 --> 01:37:43.980
giving all the dancers a few rules like

01:37:43.980 --> 01:37:45.360
the rule could be everyone's in the room

01:37:45.360 --> 01:37:47.940
but you have to be no more than an arm's

01:37:47.940 --> 01:37:49.800
length away from each other but not

01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:51.120
touch

01:37:51.120 --> 01:37:53.159
right so we're all adjusting to do that

01:37:53.159 --> 01:37:56.340
and we're all facing the same direction

01:37:56.340 --> 01:37:58.380
and you always have to face the same

01:37:58.380 --> 01:37:59.639
direction as the person in front of you

01:37:59.639 --> 01:38:01.620
the person who's in front

01:38:01.620 --> 01:38:05.400
can always turn so in doing that and we

01:38:05.400 --> 01:38:07.320
could add more or take rules away but we

01:38:07.320 --> 01:38:09.540
created these beautiful flocking school

01:38:09.540 --> 01:38:10.860
of fish

01:38:10.860 --> 01:38:14.520
Birds swarming in the air patterns

01:38:14.520 --> 01:38:16.679
just by monitoring three or four simple

01:38:16.679 --> 01:38:19.940
things to do with our bodies

01:38:20.300 --> 01:38:24.719
did anyone watch the mice competition

01:38:24.719 --> 01:38:29.360
the robotic monks mice competition

01:38:30.480 --> 01:38:33.300
David and Phoebe and John what did you

01:38:33.300 --> 01:38:35.100
think about that Samuel did you get to

01:38:35.100 --> 01:38:36.780
see that

01:38:36.780 --> 01:38:39.000
this one was a little heart was this one

01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:41.880
that was a little harder to

01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:46.320
understand like what why it fits in this

01:38:46.320 --> 01:38:48.739
module

01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:06.739
I mean part of it is the ability to

01:39:06.840 --> 01:39:09.719
use abstractions and then called them

01:39:09.719 --> 01:39:12.360
straight into a robot as abstractions

01:39:12.360 --> 01:39:15.360
but there's that part in the in the

01:39:15.360 --> 01:39:18.260
video where

01:39:20.040 --> 01:39:23.100
there they've coded the mouse not to

01:39:23.100 --> 01:39:25.920
look at walls and manipulate them

01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:29.420
but look at

01:39:31.320 --> 01:39:33.840
paths that are not there

01:39:33.840 --> 01:39:37.860
like to split the diagonals of all these

01:39:37.860 --> 01:39:40.860
walls into a path that's not there and

01:39:40.860 --> 01:39:43.380
this this and if you watch it there's

01:39:43.380 --> 01:39:45.500
all these Innovations and then this

01:39:45.500 --> 01:39:47.760
besides the innovation of the tires

01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:50.100
stickiness themselves this was the

01:39:50.100 --> 01:39:52.260
biggest Innovation when someone said

01:39:52.260 --> 01:39:54.540
because they thought okay we can't make

01:39:54.540 --> 01:39:57.120
him go faster we've exhausted all the

01:39:57.120 --> 01:39:59.460
possibilities of how to run these mazes

01:39:59.460 --> 01:40:03.360
and this person taught thought well I'm

01:40:03.360 --> 01:40:05.639
not going to have them run the maze I'm

01:40:05.639 --> 01:40:08.580
going to have them run the maze that is

01:40:08.580 --> 01:40:11.580
the shortest distance between the paths

01:40:11.580 --> 01:40:13.920
not the paths that are constructed in

01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:15.840
the Maze itself and this was a level

01:40:15.840 --> 01:40:19.500
another level of abstraction like this

01:40:19.500 --> 01:40:23.580
and then he taught the mouse to compute

01:40:23.580 --> 01:40:26.159
those and run the paths that are not

01:40:26.159 --> 01:40:28.800
actually there in constructive reality I

01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:31.639
thought this was like

01:40:31.639 --> 01:40:34.920
yeah just another example of these

01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:37.340
levels of

01:40:37.340 --> 01:40:39.659
moving into

01:40:39.659 --> 01:40:41.699
more and more subtle layers of extra

01:40:41.699 --> 01:40:44.340
abstraction

01:40:44.340 --> 01:40:46.260
um and the power that they have like all

01:40:46.260 --> 01:40:49.320
after all these years people people were

01:40:49.320 --> 01:40:51.060
like oh there's no more Innovations I

01:40:51.060 --> 01:40:52.739
mean the thing is limited it can't run

01:40:52.739 --> 01:40:54.719
any faster

01:40:54.719 --> 01:40:58.739
um and then someone thinks ah

01:40:58.739 --> 01:41:00.900
see something that's that's and and

01:41:00.900 --> 01:41:03.320
there's

01:41:05.820 --> 01:41:08.820
this and this is what the fractal thing

01:41:08.820 --> 01:41:10.920
Phoebe was talking about like to be to

01:41:10.920 --> 01:41:14.760
feel that there's something that Society

01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:17.639
could see that's just missing and that

01:41:17.639 --> 01:41:21.540
we could that if we could just see it

01:41:21.540 --> 01:41:24.780
and then discover invent it

01:41:24.780 --> 01:41:27.179
and then pass it down as simple

01:41:27.179 --> 01:41:31.800
operations it could completely transform

01:41:31.800 --> 01:41:35.060
everything all at once

01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:42.080
interesting metaphor to

01:41:42.179 --> 01:41:45.500
to create a fractal around seeing a path

01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:50.340
that isn't there that that goes beyond

01:41:50.340 --> 01:41:52.020
all the paths that are there currently

01:41:52.020 --> 01:41:54.900
and just holding that as a

01:41:54.900 --> 01:41:56.940
a different perspective

01:41:56.940 --> 01:41:59.760
I mean that feels like a symbol or

01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:02.820
something for or a metaphor for

01:42:02.820 --> 01:42:05.460
for growth is just holding the idea of

01:42:05.460 --> 01:42:08.280
there's a way to get from here to there

01:42:08.280 --> 01:42:11.040
directly even though everything we know

01:42:11.040 --> 01:42:12.060
right now

01:42:12.060 --> 01:42:16.219
makes it slower and hard to get there

01:42:16.980 --> 01:42:19.920
I don't know how that applies

01:42:19.920 --> 01:42:22.440
in a maze though because

01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:24.360
the walls are there so I didn't quite

01:42:24.360 --> 01:42:26.840
get that

01:42:29.760 --> 01:42:32.340
because he wasn't his teaching a mouse

01:42:32.340 --> 01:42:34.800
to navigate the walls

01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:37.440
he was teaching the mouse to compute a

01:42:37.440 --> 01:42:38.940
path

01:42:38.940 --> 01:42:40.920
that's what the difference between all

01:42:40.920 --> 01:42:45.020
the walls and then to run that pack

01:42:52.199 --> 01:42:54.719
was this after the mouse had taken you

01:42:54.719 --> 01:42:57.080
know they have five runs to get to know

01:42:57.080 --> 01:42:59.880
yeah it's pretty deep in the in the

01:42:59.880 --> 01:43:01.320
video

01:43:01.320 --> 01:43:04.080
but I I you can't really understand it

01:43:04.080 --> 01:43:05.520
unless you watch the whole thing it's a

01:43:05.520 --> 01:43:09.199
pretty dense video and

01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:13.020
um but I think this notion is exactly

01:43:13.020 --> 01:43:15.480
what we're doing we're not you know

01:43:15.480 --> 01:43:19.340
we're not trying to

01:43:22.320 --> 01:43:26.460
there's a lot of work in trying to

01:43:26.460 --> 01:43:29.580
improve how Society navigates the paths

01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:31.920
that are there and then there's this

01:43:31.920 --> 01:43:34.460
whole other

01:43:35.159 --> 01:43:37.500
Quest let's say which

01:43:37.500 --> 01:43:42.500
is more up my alley and that is can we

01:43:42.500 --> 01:43:45.360
can we

01:43:45.360 --> 01:43:47.580
discover invent

01:43:47.580 --> 01:43:51.000
what's not there that's what's there not

01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:52.199
not there

01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:55.860
this is this is abstract thinking

01:43:55.860 --> 01:43:58.639
uh

01:44:01.080 --> 01:44:03.960
to me it's it's it's you know it's the

01:44:03.960 --> 01:44:06.600
fun it's the the goal of collective

01:44:06.600 --> 01:44:08.280
Insight practice

01:44:08.280 --> 01:44:11.060
it's not to

01:44:11.600 --> 01:44:15.500
mash up what's there

01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:20.219
is to try to Intuit what is there

01:44:20.219 --> 01:44:23.900
and not there at the same time

01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:32.060
similar to like Cheryl

01:44:32.060 --> 01:44:35.340
being fascinated and obsessed with the

01:44:35.340 --> 01:44:38.040
Taurus it was the Taurus there or not

01:44:38.040 --> 01:44:40.619
you know these are these are abstract

01:44:40.619 --> 01:44:43.020
intuitions

01:44:43.020 --> 01:44:46.040
yeah it's abduction

01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:57.060
I'm still playing with uh what to tell

01:44:57.060 --> 01:45:00.540
all your friends Samuel

01:45:00.540 --> 01:45:03.440
the coders

01:45:03.600 --> 01:45:06.480
um it seems like it's something you

01:45:06.480 --> 01:45:10.320
touched into just now Bonnie of

01:45:10.320 --> 01:45:13.920
um that their revolutionaries

01:45:13.920 --> 01:45:17.960
that transform through tapping into

01:45:17.960 --> 01:45:21.920
collective intelligence

01:45:33.619 --> 01:45:36.900
revolutionaries that transform through

01:45:36.900 --> 01:45:42.139
tapping into collective intelligence

01:46:22.619 --> 01:46:25.580
cybergers

01:46:27.239 --> 01:46:30.380
cyborg of course

01:46:30.380 --> 01:46:34.100
that was that was

01:46:34.260 --> 01:46:37.320
his term for the you know how in

01:46:37.320 --> 01:46:40.560
Terminator Okay in Terminator one

01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:44.040
genetic is the bad cyborg right

01:46:44.040 --> 01:46:47.159
and then in Terminator 2 he comes back

01:46:47.159 --> 01:46:49.679
from the past comes from the future it

01:46:49.679 --> 01:46:51.840
doesn't matter he comes back and she's

01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:54.659
afraid of them but he's just he's he's

01:46:54.659 --> 01:46:57.300
an old version that they that the

01:46:57.300 --> 01:47:00.000
Revolutionary guard reprogrammed to be a

01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:02.699
good guy she it takes a while to realize

01:47:02.699 --> 01:47:03.540
that

01:47:03.540 --> 01:47:08.400
and this is his in his like it looks

01:47:08.400 --> 01:47:11.820
like it looks like an algorithm Walks

01:47:11.820 --> 01:47:13.739
Like an algorithm but it's a beneficent

01:47:13.739 --> 01:47:15.900
algorithm so it's like Terminator two

01:47:15.900 --> 01:47:20.060
instead of echo or it's this

01:47:22.860 --> 01:47:27.080
I need to build the cyborg regora

01:47:39.060 --> 01:47:41.040
do not have to I mean I got something

01:47:41.040 --> 01:47:43.619
else cooking Samuel um

01:47:43.619 --> 01:47:48.000
there was I still I'm inspired I've had

01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:50.639
this feeling inside

01:47:50.639 --> 01:47:53.340
when you described having created

01:47:53.340 --> 01:47:55.980
something wobbly

01:47:55.980 --> 01:47:59.219
you created something wobbly and you had

01:47:59.219 --> 01:48:02.480
so much joy that it wasn't something

01:48:02.480 --> 01:48:06.000
concrete it was wobbly and you created

01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:08.100
it wobbly

01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:10.320
so I just want to let you know that that

01:48:10.320 --> 01:48:13.219
inspired me

01:48:20.520 --> 01:48:23.520
like

01:48:26.340 --> 01:48:26.940
um

01:48:26.940 --> 01:48:29.940
foreign

01:48:38.639 --> 01:48:41.900
what does wobbly mean

01:48:42.300 --> 01:48:46.159
no no I think I know what it means

01:48:46.159 --> 01:48:49.139
but I created something wobbly you mean

01:48:49.139 --> 01:48:51.500
like

01:49:00.139 --> 01:49:02.880
what you what your understanding there

01:49:02.880 --> 01:49:05.360
was David

01:49:08.639 --> 01:49:10.739
what I heard

01:49:10.739 --> 01:49:12.840
was that you

01:49:12.840 --> 01:49:15.780
were still in the midst of the process

01:49:15.780 --> 01:49:20.580
and yet had so much joy that you had not

01:49:20.580 --> 01:49:22.920
finished really but you were still

01:49:22.920 --> 01:49:25.679
engaged and you were so happy that you

01:49:25.679 --> 01:49:29.719
had gotten to that that Middle Point

01:49:29.719 --> 01:49:33.020
the subjectivity of wobbliness

01:49:33.020 --> 01:49:36.739
while doing that yeah

01:49:39.179 --> 01:49:41.900
sure

01:50:40.400 --> 01:50:42.540
I'm just taking it where can I

01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:44.580
participate in this carbon it's kind of

01:50:44.580 --> 01:50:46.739
a few abstractions and in the mind

01:50:46.739 --> 01:50:49.320
around with coding it's kind of clear

01:50:49.320 --> 01:50:52.560
um more accessible to me at least as a

01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:55.260
way to

01:50:55.260 --> 01:50:57.480
they need to get interact to participate

01:50:57.480 --> 01:50:59.760
with that in the real world I still feel

01:50:59.760 --> 01:51:03.119
like other nature still feel like it's

01:51:03.119 --> 01:51:05.280
harder in some way

01:51:05.280 --> 01:51:06.659
um

01:51:06.659 --> 01:51:08.460
or I don't know when

01:51:08.460 --> 01:51:11.580
something is yeah it's certain mess like

01:51:11.580 --> 01:51:16.040
she has a reveal of something

01:52:01.460 --> 01:52:04.380
there's a lot more to talk about we have

01:52:04.380 --> 01:52:06.659
games coming if you want to come back

01:52:06.659 --> 01:52:08.580
for games

01:52:08.580 --> 01:52:12.179
um because I think there's only so much

01:52:12.179 --> 01:52:15.000
uh you can talk about this and then you

01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:16.560
get lost in the weeds so we come back

01:52:16.560 --> 01:52:18.600
we're going to play games with music and

01:52:18.600 --> 01:52:20.520
Rhythm we'll play games with art and

01:52:20.520 --> 01:52:24.179
we'll actually play games with geometric

01:52:24.179 --> 01:52:26.460
uh shapes

01:52:26.460 --> 01:52:29.159
um and we'll do them in breakout rooms

01:52:29.159 --> 01:52:32.219
and again the reason why in this case

01:52:32.219 --> 01:52:35.940
people are listening to this is

01:52:35.940 --> 01:52:38.520
we want to try to solve the puzzles

01:52:38.520 --> 01:52:42.739
they're all puzzles right but we want to

01:52:42.739 --> 01:52:45.840
do what we've been doing all along and

01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:47.159
that is

01:52:47.159 --> 01:52:50.280
also track the felt experience like what

01:52:50.280 --> 01:52:52.560
is trying to solve this puzzle am I

01:52:52.560 --> 01:52:54.780
using my perception am I using my

01:52:54.780 --> 01:52:56.340
imagination

01:52:56.340 --> 01:52:59.940
am I using justificational reasoning

01:52:59.940 --> 01:53:00.840
like

01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:03.659
and to get this

01:53:03.659 --> 01:53:06.000
um like when Sandra said she asked the

01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:08.400
kid like what's not there like what what

01:53:08.400 --> 01:53:11.219
what are the biomarkers of what is

01:53:11.219 --> 01:53:12.780
seeing like

01:53:12.780 --> 01:53:15.780
what is the organ of perception that the

01:53:15.780 --> 01:53:18.300
kids use to see what's not there is an

01:53:18.300 --> 01:53:21.960
interesting interesting question so

01:53:21.960 --> 01:53:23.760
uh

01:53:23.760 --> 01:53:26.840
yeah we'll try to play more games where

01:53:26.840 --> 01:53:29.460
that uh

01:53:29.460 --> 01:53:31.500
you know we we have that little that

01:53:31.500 --> 01:53:33.179
little hit

01:53:33.179 --> 01:53:33.900
um

01:53:33.900 --> 01:53:36.480
that that will be another way of working

01:53:36.480 --> 01:53:39.440
with this material

01:53:47.280 --> 01:53:48.840
I'm thinking you know I'm listening to

01:53:48.840 --> 01:53:50.699
my dog out there and he can smell the

01:53:50.699 --> 01:53:53.820
bear so it's for him it's there and not

01:53:53.820 --> 01:53:56.040
there at the same time

01:53:56.040 --> 01:53:58.020
um

01:53:58.020 --> 01:54:00.619
oh

01:54:01.679 --> 01:54:02.659
okay

01:54:02.659 --> 01:54:05.400
my friends thank you very much enjoy

01:54:05.400 --> 01:54:08.520
your day and look forward to

01:54:08.520 --> 01:54:10.139
um playing some games

01:54:10.139 --> 01:54:12.860
bye everybody



## Cohort 2

00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:06.319
do the math

00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:13.980
okay

00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:16.099
um

00:00:16.859 --> 00:00:19.680
not sure what we're going to do how

00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:21.240
we're going to get into this material

00:00:21.240 --> 00:00:23.039
today I think what we're going to do

00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:25.800
with Celia when

00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:28.500
they we have eight people okay

00:00:28.500 --> 00:00:29.640
um

00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:31.800
I think I'll I'll

00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:33.239
um

00:00:33.239 --> 00:00:35.160
we'll have an open mic some question and

00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:37.980
answers and I'll talk around a bit and

00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:40.739
then I'd like to put you into breakout

00:00:40.739 --> 00:00:44.219
rooms and maybe you could pick up put on

00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:47.520
your screens the course content

00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:50.420
um and shoes

00:00:50.420 --> 00:00:55.039
uh what section you want to talk about

00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.260
or you can get I don't know if you can

00:00:58.260 --> 00:01:01.739
get to all of them so and the sections

00:01:01.739 --> 00:01:03.180
are

00:01:03.180 --> 00:01:08.060
um shapes and the patterns that connect

00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:13.799
if you bring up the uh

00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:18.799
but I'll just put in the uh

00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:22.500
in the chat the direct

00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:24.619
um

00:01:25.020 --> 00:01:27.840
wow that's a big URL I don't think

00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.140
that's

00:01:30.360 --> 00:01:34.280
is that you are does that link work

00:01:34.979 --> 00:01:37.020
okay

00:01:37.020 --> 00:01:39.180
I thought maybe it was a link that was

00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:42.960
the writer's link or something okay

00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:45.240
um all right so

00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:47.579
um the the sections are shaped the

00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:49.200
patterns that connect

00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.320
and in this uh

00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:55.799
they get progressively harder I think

00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:58.619
um and this is about can you see what's

00:01:58.619 --> 00:02:01.200
there and not there at the same time so

00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.180
a pure abstraction being something like

00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:08.819
um what is there and not there at the

00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:11.160
same time

00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:12.180
um

00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:14.099
so

00:02:14.099 --> 00:02:16.080
um you know like the Fibonacci Square

00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:18.300
it's not actually there

00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:21.060
it is there it's there in it's

00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.220
manifested but it's there and not there

00:02:23.220 --> 00:02:25.440
at the same time so these shapes that we

00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:28.080
see behind

00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:32.580
the appearance is so this notion of

00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:35.280
how is it that we see what's there and

00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.700
not there at the same time now

00:02:38.700 --> 00:02:40.800
the

00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:44.099
question here is if I look up at the

00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:45.300
stars

00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:49.500
and I see a bull right by connecting the

00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:50.940
dots

00:02:50.940 --> 00:02:52.560
the Taurus

00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.519
constellation

00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:01.500
is that the same as seeing

00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:05.099
a geometric or a mathematical shape

00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:07.920
is one more like imagination and one is

00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:10.739
more like pure abstraction

00:03:10.739 --> 00:03:13.500
we want to really feel the difference

00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:15.620
between

00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:20.040
imagination and math I mean so the big

00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:22.260
question that happened last session was

00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:25.620
is math invented or discovered

00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:28.560
is it invented by the imagination in a

00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.260
certain way or is it discovered and in

00:03:31.260 --> 00:03:34.800
this first section on shape it's more

00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:36.140
like

00:03:36.140 --> 00:03:39.000
seeing what's there and not there at the

00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.420
same time

00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:47.040
so that's that's one topic the pattern

00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:49.260
that I think about the pattern that

00:03:49.260 --> 00:03:51.480
connects

00:03:51.480 --> 00:03:55.760
yeah shape the patterns that connect

00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:04.860
so that's one thing you can talk about I

00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:06.540
mean you could talk about them in

00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:09.420
general but I'm just going over this

00:04:09.420 --> 00:04:11.580
um

00:04:11.580 --> 00:04:14.659
and then we have the second thing is

00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:18.139
pattern language

00:04:18.299 --> 00:04:20.760
something that Christopher Alexander is

00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:23.699
Trump was trying to do

00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:25.820
um

00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:31.440
he's trying to see in the presence of

00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:33.840
living structure some foundational

00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:36.720
principles of

00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:39.840
the nature of order so he's looking at

00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:43.139
patterns to language the nature of order

00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:45.740
itself

00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:50.280
so you could talk about pattern

00:04:50.280 --> 00:04:52.979
languages some of you may be may be

00:04:52.979 --> 00:04:55.320
familiar with all kinds of pattern

00:04:55.320 --> 00:04:58.620
languages got very popular

00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:00.000
um

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.520
in the last decade there's many many

00:05:02.520 --> 00:05:04.860
different people have used different

00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:08.479
types of pattern languages

00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.000
um then the third section is music math

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.950
in other words how people find

00:05:14.950 --> 00:05:16.740
[Music]

00:05:16.740 --> 00:05:21.300
um not only math in not only music and

00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:23.180
mathematical

00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:24.720
patterns

00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.080
uh but Pat geometry and musical patterns

00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:30.060
what's the relationship between music

00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:32.759
and math and what's happening when you

00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.000
see music in math or math Behind the

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.300
Music

00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:43.039
and that bleeds into these

00:05:43.039 --> 00:05:46.620
cymatics where different frequencies

00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:48.900
which is like music

00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:51.240
sound frequencies

00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.520
create different shapes so what's the

00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:56.759
relationship between geometry and music

00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:01.460
and geometry and sound

00:06:03.840 --> 00:06:07.380
what's what's going on on there I mean

00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:08.639
these can be highly creative

00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.160
conversations it's not like you need to

00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:15.180
answer the question you need to Surf you

00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:19.820
know the company of your friends here

00:06:20.940 --> 00:06:22.919
um the fourth thing I'm just showing you

00:06:22.919 --> 00:06:24.780
how the progression of this this course

00:06:24.780 --> 00:06:27.360
content goes is meta mathematics and

00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.440
what do I mean by that

00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:35.100
that is people who work in the field of

00:06:35.100 --> 00:06:37.560
theoretical mathematics so we talked

00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.580
about how animals can uh simulate their

00:06:41.580 --> 00:06:43.919
environment and then in their dreams

00:06:43.919 --> 00:06:45.900
they can simulate

00:06:45.900 --> 00:06:49.699
hypothetical environments

00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:52.199
but humans do is they can look at the

00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.539
environment and Abstract patterns from

00:06:54.539 --> 00:06:57.660
it and then abstract from the patterns

00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:00.360
mathematical formula

00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.780
then they can take that math language go

00:07:03.780 --> 00:07:06.840
over here and with it

00:07:06.840 --> 00:07:09.419
theoretically say well if there are

00:07:09.419 --> 00:07:11.520
worlds that work like this how about

00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:14.220
worlds where parallel lines are parallel

00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:16.560
because they live in a world where

00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.500
parallel lines curve

00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:21.599
what would the math be like that and

00:07:21.599 --> 00:07:23.819
then they do the math on a hypothetical

00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:27.599
World in a hypothetical abstraction

00:07:27.599 --> 00:07:30.360
and the Fascinate like the Taurus the

00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.419
Taurus is a is a geometric shape that

00:07:33.419 --> 00:07:35.660
was invented by non-luc

00:07:35.660 --> 00:07:39.380
euclidean geometry

00:07:39.599 --> 00:07:42.419
yeah we see Tauruses everywhere in the

00:07:42.419 --> 00:07:44.520
world now how is it that you could go

00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:47.280
and make it we have lots of uses for

00:07:47.280 --> 00:07:48.840
tourists metaphorically and

00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:50.160
scientifically

00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.819
but it was an outcome of taking math and

00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:55.880
saying well why don't we make up

00:07:55.880 --> 00:07:59.940
imaginary math hypothetical math math

00:07:59.940 --> 00:08:01.099
math

00:08:01.099 --> 00:08:03.960
mathematical systems hypothetical

00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:06.419
mathematical systems say we can have a

00:08:06.419 --> 00:08:09.120
cube in five Dimensions or this or that

00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.880
we could have laminar flows in six

00:08:11.880 --> 00:08:13.080
dimensions

00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:15.479
and then that math turns out to be

00:08:15.479 --> 00:08:16.560
useful

00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.720
in the real world so that's what's

00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.120
called meta mathematics it's one thing

00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:22.800
to be able to see the pattern in the

00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.599
world

00:08:24.599 --> 00:08:28.020
put it into the uh language of geometry

00:08:28.020 --> 00:08:29.460
or math

00:08:29.460 --> 00:08:31.800
and have a one-to-one correspondence but

00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.099
then what people can do is then take

00:08:34.099 --> 00:08:36.120
that math

00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:41.339
and create hypothetical mass that would

00:08:41.339 --> 00:08:43.860
you would assume would only pertain to

00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:46.320
hypothetical worlds but there's

00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.100
something so precise about math

00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:52.920
that then we can discover uses for that

00:08:52.920 --> 00:08:55.320
in the real world so that's meta

00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:57.839
mathematics and that's something I think

00:08:57.839 --> 00:09:01.040
that's really fascinating

00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:04.620
okay so you could talk about that

00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:06.920
um now metamind is something different

00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:09.600
and if you haven't looked at it yet

00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:14.000
there is a link there to all of this

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.760
metaphysics the bagua that people

00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:19.800
um were doing in the East for a long

00:09:19.800 --> 00:09:23.339
time and that is this way of trying to

00:09:23.339 --> 00:09:26.839
create a fundamental

00:09:26.839 --> 00:09:31.140
model of all of existence starting with

00:09:31.140 --> 00:09:33.480
basically

00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.480
um one thing and that's the the

00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:37.140
um

00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:38.940
the the

00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.820
uh the wuji is the egg the primordial

00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:44.940
egg that has an asymmetry it has a light

00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:46.200
in a dark

00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:47.880
and from that

00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:50.760
they say well then what if you have this

00:09:50.760 --> 00:09:53.820
and what if the light bifurcates and if

00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:56.339
you go to that you will see that this is

00:09:56.339 --> 00:10:00.959
a kind of abstraction that is more

00:10:00.959 --> 00:10:03.660
concerned with what the mind is capable

00:10:03.660 --> 00:10:05.519
of

00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:06.779
um

00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:09.899
creating the patterns the mod that the

00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:12.620
mind can create

00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.420
so these are these aren't necessarily

00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:18.360
they haven't come from the world they've

00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.160
come from

00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:23.040
um the question is what is the most

00:10:23.040 --> 00:10:25.740
simple thing we can think about the

00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:26.760
world

00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:29.700
and then someone says well in order for

00:10:29.700 --> 00:10:32.220
the world to exist there must be some

00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:35.160
asymmetry let's call one the light and

00:10:35.160 --> 00:10:38.399
one the dark Yin a young and then you'll

00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.640
start to see all these permutations of

00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:44.820
the Transformations that can happen from

00:10:44.820 --> 00:10:49.140
this one uh cosmological principle

00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:50.880
so

00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:53.760
um this is more it's metaphysics it's

00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:55.920
more about

00:10:55.920 --> 00:10:58.019
um looking at the properties of Mind

00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:00.000
itself it's kind of

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.760
um like early logic

00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:03.959
um

00:11:03.959 --> 00:11:06.240
in the west we have things that says P

00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:09.540
you know if P then not P

00:11:09.540 --> 00:11:12.860
um this is more like uh

00:11:12.860 --> 00:11:16.640
ideographic logics

00:11:16.680 --> 00:11:21.000
then we have a whole section on mandala

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.240
mind

00:11:23.339 --> 00:11:25.620
I mean maybe what we'll do is whatever

00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:27.600
you guys discussed

00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.420
on the recording today we'll take that

00:11:30.420 --> 00:11:32.760
off and and I'll make people take the

00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:33.480
other

00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.940
the other topics later

00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:39.420
um mandala mind is this phenomenon that

00:11:39.420 --> 00:11:41.220
people have in different types of

00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:42.480
meditation

00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.640
where they start to see mandalas and

00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:51.540
tachystopic and kaleidoscopic patterns

00:11:51.540 --> 00:11:54.120
um and sometimes they're arrays of dots

00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:56.459
that expand in some contracts sometimes

00:11:56.459 --> 00:12:00.300
the complete geometric shapes like

00:12:00.300 --> 00:12:03.600
mandalas very much like kaleidoscopes

00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.240
and there's a whole bunch of theories

00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.680
that this is actually you're seeing the

00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:13.920
global oscillations of the Mind actually

00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:16.140
has this kind of pattern

00:12:16.140 --> 00:12:19.380
so this is another way to think about

00:12:19.380 --> 00:12:22.019
what is the mind doing because it seems

00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:27.560
to be able to do these geometric

00:12:27.560 --> 00:12:30.480
symmetrical things

00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:36.140
um in the meditation state so is then

00:12:36.140 --> 00:12:40.200
that somehow are we seeing

00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:41.160
um

00:12:41.160 --> 00:12:43.500
the Deep structure of the universe

00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.720
because it's the Deep structure of our

00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.120
mind it's the same thing this is a whole

00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.240
nother uh fascinating

00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.760
um topic to think about that

00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.220
and then the last section is

00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:00.180
um

00:13:00.180 --> 00:13:04.920
to notice and I'll just share my screen

00:13:04.920 --> 00:13:08.279
here uh

00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.279
from from the

00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.339
so the last sections is on action

00:13:14.339 --> 00:13:15.660
protocols

00:13:15.660 --> 00:13:17.820
and

00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:21.180
um I'm going to argue that Mo a lot of

00:13:21.180 --> 00:13:24.180
this like math is is an action protocol

00:13:24.180 --> 00:13:25.620
it says

00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.560
you know pick up one plus one equals two

00:13:28.560 --> 00:13:30.959
actually says pick up a stick lay it

00:13:30.959 --> 00:13:34.920
down pick up another stick lay it down

00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:38.160
you have two sticks that's two

00:13:38.160 --> 00:13:42.120
um multiply take two sticks

00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.820
put them down twice

00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:47.820
so I would say that there's also this

00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.060
notion that the in every mathematical

00:13:51.060 --> 00:13:52.980
angiometric

00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:55.560
soon we see there's also an action

00:13:55.560 --> 00:13:58.860
component so for example in this thing

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:01.200
that's on the this GIF that's in the

00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.139
course content if you didn't see this

00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:05.600
triangle

00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.220
rotating around and you saw something

00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:12.240
that was just these four

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.339
these four

00:14:14.339 --> 00:14:18.480
um sine waves these four waves emanating

00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:21.180
you you would think wow that's that's

00:14:21.180 --> 00:14:23.579
kind of an interesting

00:14:23.579 --> 00:14:26.760
pattern but then you might be able to

00:14:26.760 --> 00:14:29.160
Intuit oh I know what's generating that

00:14:29.160 --> 00:14:31.860
pattern it's if you take and so here's

00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:35.120
the action protocol take a triangle

00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.420
rotate the two sides around the circle

00:14:39.420 --> 00:14:44.279
and where the it meets the circle have

00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:46.019
draw a line that

00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:48.260
creates a wave

00:14:48.260 --> 00:14:52.279
extended from it okay so it's basically

00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:55.920
an instruction that produces a complex

00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:58.380
pattern

00:14:58.380 --> 00:15:02.459
um and this one is is also quite obvious

00:15:02.459 --> 00:15:04.620
this is

00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:07.639
if this thing is going to produce

00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:12.000
all these complex patterns

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.240
but what actually it is it's just a

00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.100
pendulum with four fulcrums

00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.360
with lights on it

00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.279
so basically

00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.680
you see this complex pattern but it's

00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:27.420
actually reduced to

00:15:27.420 --> 00:15:32.220
take a system with four full cry fulcrum

00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:34.740
I don't know how to say of of Mo or

00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:38.279
momentum there's four full momentum

00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:40.860
and move it around the circle and it

00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:42.360
will generate

00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.920
complex patterns

00:15:46.800 --> 00:15:49.560
and so what math is is to look at

00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:52.019
something like that complex complex

00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:53.160
movement

00:15:53.160 --> 00:15:56.279
and to be able to reduce it or abstract

00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.899
from it

00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:01.980
the rules that create the patterns

00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:04.680
so it's the ability to see that and say

00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:05.519
oh

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.639
it's as if there's some forces there's

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.579
four fulcrum of forces

00:16:11.579 --> 00:16:14.940
that are moving both synchronously and

00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:19.019
have these fulcrum type relationships

00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:22.199
so you're seeing the action protocol

00:16:22.199 --> 00:16:25.139
behind

00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:28.019
the real manifestation of it so when you

00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:31.820
see Fibonacci squares in like a shell

00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:36.060
what you're seeing is the activity that

00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:38.940
this the growth activity of the shell

00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:41.459
that's following certain rules there's

00:16:41.459 --> 00:16:44.040
an action protocol to it

00:16:44.040 --> 00:16:47.100
so that's the seventh that's the last

00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:50.420
piece is to think about

00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:57.000
these abstractions as the ability to see

00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.839
patterns but that but see them as

00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:01.920
protocols for certain types of

00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.860
activities or actions

00:17:04.860 --> 00:17:07.559
um so all of this in this

00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.500
um this module it's not the most

00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:12.839
essential piece for putting the line

00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.179
back into the body in the body back into

00:17:15.179 --> 00:17:19.260
the mind but it it will help us uh when

00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:22.679
we write the whole thing is to show that

00:17:22.679 --> 00:17:27.319
if in fact what we're doing is

00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.900
uncovering action protocols then then

00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:32.940
the action you know the action sounds

00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:34.919
like the body right it's an action

00:17:34.919 --> 00:17:38.460
protocol there's movement there's action

00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:40.559
there's complexity

00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.980
and behind complexity are simple rules

00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:46.919
that generate complex behaviors

00:17:46.919 --> 00:17:49.080
so

00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:51.200
um

00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.539
yeah so that's what's in this module

00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:58.020
um but I think if you have kind of uh

00:17:58.020 --> 00:18:00.240
just kind of a kickoff conversation

00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.100
about it

00:18:02.100 --> 00:18:03.780
um and

00:18:03.780 --> 00:18:06.840
um you might even want to

00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:09.120
um agree on watching one of the short

00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:12.480
videos maybe the last one or any any one

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.940
of them and and kind of digesting

00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.100
together

00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.140
um what meaning is being made around

00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.000
that video and then there's ones I don't

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.799
know if you watched all of them but by

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.299
the time you get to the last one where

00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:26.460
the guy has like a simple equation for

00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:28.620
everything that happens in the universe

00:18:28.620 --> 00:18:31.380
it's it's I mean I don't understand it

00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:37.980
but you get a real hit off of what uh

00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:40.260
what this aspect of the human condition

00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:42.360
is is

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:44.160
um and also that it's not the kind of

00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.440
abstraction that we usually think of

00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.480
when people are like Galaxy brains and

00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.860
they have an idea and then they make

00:18:49.860 --> 00:18:51.600
another idea and then they learn more

00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:54.120
complex idea and the systems it's not

00:18:54.120 --> 00:18:56.820
like that it's more like it's piercing

00:18:56.820 --> 00:18:59.820
through and seeing something extremely

00:18:59.820 --> 00:19:02.760
fundamental about the complexity in the

00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:03.480
world

00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.480
there is this there's this

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.880
it's not like a conceptual abstraction

00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.799
that builds on itself it's something

00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.460
that completely

00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:15.960
compresses information

00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:20.760
down to precise rules so this is this is

00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:22.320
what I call them pure abstractions

00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:25.080
versus when we use the term like

00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:27.419
linguistic conceptual abstractions

00:19:27.419 --> 00:19:30.240
there's something else going on here

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.720
that Hume that humans can do now

00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:35.700
um and just to finish off the

00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:38.660
conversation is that

00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:42.960
animals also are capable of pure

00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.340
abstraction

00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:47.880
so when bees come back to the nest or

00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.720
the hive and do their wiggle dance that

00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.720
communicates where the honey is

00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.460
you know it's like in this direction

00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:59.760
this far away this angle Planet this

00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:03.720
angle to the this is an abstraction

00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:08.580
this is a mathematical conversation that

00:20:08.580 --> 00:20:10.980
they are having

00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:14.580
it's it's and and you can see it's also

00:20:14.580 --> 00:20:18.380
an action protocol right it says

00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:21.900
fly this way this angle keep this I

00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.120
don't know I don't know the language but

00:20:24.120 --> 00:20:26.580
it has directionality it has length in

00:20:26.580 --> 00:20:30.120
it it has relationship to angle to the

00:20:30.120 --> 00:20:33.120
Sun and so

00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:35.520
um it doesn't have signposts it doesn't

00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:37.919
say you know past the daffodils and this

00:20:37.919 --> 00:20:40.140
and that that would be like a memory a

00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:43.740
memory thing it's an abstraction

00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.799
now so we know the animals can create

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.140
abstractions

00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:52.020
and we know animals can communicate as

00:20:52.020 --> 00:20:53.640
extractions

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.179
the only thing that which is a big

00:20:57.179 --> 00:20:59.340
difference I mean what what we can do

00:20:59.340 --> 00:21:02.580
the animals can't do is that we can do

00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:04.980
meta abstractions so then we can take

00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:09.140
that abstraction and work on it directly

00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:12.559
and then put it back into the world

00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.500
and secondly we can

00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:20.700
take we can see the abstractions that

00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.380
are being used in nature like the

00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:25.620
Fibonacci square like the dance of the

00:21:25.620 --> 00:21:28.080
bees and I'm pretty sure that other

00:21:28.080 --> 00:21:32.580
animals can't see other species

00:21:32.580 --> 00:21:35.480
abstractions

00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:37.860
so we get underneath all the

00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:40.740
abstractions to see to abstract what

00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:45.419
abstractions are by math so

00:21:45.419 --> 00:21:46.980
um that's how we're going to put the

00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:50.520
mind at this level back into nature

00:21:50.520 --> 00:21:52.980
because

00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.500
animals can do abstractions also and

00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:57.240
some animals can communicate

00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.240
abstractions

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.179
funny as you were talking I was thinking

00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:11.220
about Rey's definition of insight how

00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.419
nothing's wasted and how Insight is that

00:22:14.419 --> 00:22:17.640
reveal of what's been unseen so is this

00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.500
is there a link there between peer

00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:21.360
abstraction and insight

00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:24.600
yes very much so because and it's the

00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:26.520
link is exactly what you said because

00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:28.679
like if I'm imagining things

00:22:28.679 --> 00:22:30.900
there's a lot that goes off in many

00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:33.539
different directions and there's

00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:36.320
but there's a sense of what's that word

00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:39.500
parsimony with with with

00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:42.000
Insight like he was saying and there's a

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.780
sense of parsimony with math you know

00:22:45.780 --> 00:22:49.080
like it it wants to say as much as

00:22:49.080 --> 00:22:52.140
possible in as little

00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:54.600
symbols as part as few symbols as

00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:58.380
possible or as few rules as possible now

00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:00.419
that's what also makes it hard for

00:23:00.419 --> 00:23:02.360
ordinary people to understand

00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:06.299
because every symbol behind every symbol

00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:08.760
is a huge amount of understanding that

00:23:08.760 --> 00:23:12.539
you have to be so Adept with that you

00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:14.760
take all that understanding

00:23:14.760 --> 00:23:19.140
with the word e you know so with the

00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:22.679
term e or something and so this is why

00:23:22.679 --> 00:23:25.200
it's very difficult for for most people

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:28.559
I mean you have to be kind of like

00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.200
you know not everybody has a real talent

00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.780
for the most sophisticated mathematics

00:23:33.780 --> 00:23:36.659
for us like we know like two times two

00:23:36.659 --> 00:23:39.960
we know what the times thing means it's

00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.059
so easy for us

00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:47.280
um but as these compressed symbols uh

00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:49.280
get more and more

00:23:49.280 --> 00:23:52.320
uh Laden with other things you have to

00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:54.360
know with other things that you know the

00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:56.640
ability for most people to manipulate

00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.340
that symbol as easily as we manipulate

00:23:59.340 --> 00:24:03.600
the times symbol is is just really uh

00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:06.299
reserved for only it's you know it's not

00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:09.840
reserved for the thing about this kind

00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:12.419
of intelligence it's not only reserved

00:24:12.419 --> 00:24:14.580
for really smart people it's reserved

00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:16.860
for people who have a certain Knack at

00:24:16.860 --> 00:24:19.080
it you know what I mean like it's it

00:24:19.080 --> 00:24:23.100
seems much more uh

00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:25.860
up up to a certain point you know

00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:27.960
there's a there's a general intelligence

00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.419
but then these people who are like

00:24:30.419 --> 00:24:33.120
phenoms at math they have it when

00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:35.220
they're like three or four years old

00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:37.919
they see math as objects they don't see

00:24:37.919 --> 00:24:40.320
it as abstraction and they just

00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:43.620
manipulate it like that it's very

00:24:43.620 --> 00:24:44.159
um

00:24:44.159 --> 00:24:47.159
it's it's it's a it's neuroatypical

00:24:47.159 --> 00:24:48.840
really

00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:50.100
um so

00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:53.460
and it's also interestingly uh it's got

00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:55.380
some genetic basis to it because certain

00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:58.919
cultures certain uh genetic lines

00:24:58.919 --> 00:25:00.240
um

00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.679
it's very hard to tell if it's

00:25:01.679 --> 00:25:03.780
culturally or not but

00:25:03.780 --> 00:25:07.320
um yeah so I think that it's the same

00:25:07.320 --> 00:25:10.159
with prodigies of any any type you know

00:25:10.159 --> 00:25:12.960
Musical prodigies a lot of Musical

00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.340
prodigies

00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:16.679
um think in terms of math in fact one of

00:25:16.679 --> 00:25:20.220
the books I bought for this is a a woman

00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:23.039
a Chinese Asian woman who said who's

00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.919
both a mathematician and a Pianist and

00:25:25.919 --> 00:25:30.360
to her math is music she can do the math

00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:33.840
because she can hear the music you know

00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:37.620
um this is always a fascinating thing uh

00:25:37.620 --> 00:25:41.640
this relationship between math and music

00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.120
um yeah so

00:25:45.120 --> 00:25:49.260
so um let's go into

00:25:49.260 --> 00:25:49.799
um

00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.740
let's go 45 minutes

00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:54.539
um just talk around and you can go in

00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:55.919
and out of what we've been talking about

00:25:55.919 --> 00:25:57.840
before

00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:01.380
um and uh let's see if we can pick up

00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:05.580
some some speed on uh this topical let

00:26:05.580 --> 00:26:07.980
me try to make it informative but also

00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:09.779
fun and not difficult we're not trying

00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:11.580
to understand things we just don't

00:26:11.580 --> 00:26:13.020
understand

00:26:13.020 --> 00:26:15.779
okay so one two three four five six

00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:19.980
seven eight nine all right uh

00:26:30.679 --> 00:26:34.980
I'm gonna put four to five participants

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:37.140
in a room so people have a chance to

00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:40.200
think and hear instead of uh feel like

00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:41.760
they have to con you know so that

00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:45.059
there's it's a slower kind of pace okay

00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:47.760
I'll see you in

00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:49.620
45 minutes

00:26:49.620 --> 00:26:51.960
enjoy

00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:54.840
your topic and

00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:57.799
enjoy your company

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.640
okay

00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.460
were we able to make any sense of this

00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:55.740
stuff or uh

00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:56.940
yeah

00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.520
what are our shares to see whether a big

00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:02.059
smile

00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:36.080
was that a yes or no question money

00:28:38.760 --> 00:28:41.760
no

00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:50.539
we could ask ask me questions too but uh

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.100
just trying to

00:28:53.100 --> 00:28:56.940
see what's the best way to infiltrate

00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.299
this group with this this module this

00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:02.779
module

00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.720
um I guess I kind of have a little

00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.820
question

00:29:08.820 --> 00:29:11.000
um

00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:16.740
I brought it up in the group but like

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.740
I'm still not

00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:21.779
I guess I'm trying to like

00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:25.440
see the difference between like

00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:28.020
and I could be totally misunderstanding

00:29:28.020 --> 00:29:30.980
but like between

00:29:31.080 --> 00:29:35.399
these pure abstractions

00:29:35.399 --> 00:29:37.559
you know like if there's a circle the

00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.159
square is a pure abstraction Circle

00:29:41.159 --> 00:29:44.940
is that not just in my

00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.640
imagination projecting onto that seeing

00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.380
it or like

00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:51.299
and the only other thing I could think

00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:53.760
of was like

00:29:53.760 --> 00:29:55.640
if

00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:58.799
you know the pure abstraction is more

00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.799
real in a sense if

00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:05.760
the square over the circle is sort of

00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:08.100
explains a bit of the behavior of the

00:30:08.100 --> 00:30:10.260
circle

00:30:10.260 --> 00:30:13.440
am I getting that is that I'm still sort

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.120
of yeah

00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:18.299
did you watch the one with the ellipse

00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:21.440
no okay

00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:23.899
um

00:30:24.899 --> 00:30:27.240
so

00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.520
um so this is a good question where does

00:30:29.520 --> 00:30:32.880
the imagination stop and the pure

00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.940
abstraction begin now we use our

00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.520
imagination in the process of trying to

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:41.340
get at the pure abstraction but then we

00:30:41.340 --> 00:30:43.919
end up with something that has a freaky

00:30:43.919 --> 00:30:45.659
nature to it

00:30:45.659 --> 00:30:49.679
right and the freaky nature is that the

00:30:49.679 --> 00:30:52.220
abstraction

00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:56.159
can be toyed with over here and then

00:30:56.159 --> 00:30:58.080
you can find

00:30:58.080 --> 00:31:00.480
that it explicates something in the real

00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:02.580
world this is the one of the things

00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:05.520
that's freaky but it's not really that

00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:07.380
freaky because

00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:11.340
this has somehow

00:31:11.340 --> 00:31:13.740
the first abstraction somehow Is

00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:15.980
Anchored In Something Real

00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:21.179
uh so whereas imagination can fly off

00:31:21.179 --> 00:31:23.159
into

00:31:23.159 --> 00:31:26.940
um it's not there's no burden on your

00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.299
imagination to be anchored in the real

00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.399
world this way there's some kind of

00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:33.899
precision

00:31:33.899 --> 00:31:36.720
that is being required of a pure

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.580
abstraction

00:31:38.580 --> 00:31:40.440
um and

00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:45.299
um and and so it is different

00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:46.260
um

00:31:46.260 --> 00:31:48.779
um like a lot of people use imagination

00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.659
as thought experiments and then the

00:31:51.659 --> 00:31:53.700
thought experiments gives them the

00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:56.880
Insight of what the math might be able

00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.260
to do right so we we you know so

00:32:00.260 --> 00:32:04.440
Einstein was on a elevator and he's like

00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:08.240
oh this feels like cross-modal synthesis

00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:13.320
this is like gravity this is like free

00:32:13.320 --> 00:32:16.200
fall so first he did that and body thing

00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.720
and then he's like well what if that's

00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.600
what gravity really is acceleration

00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:24.480
oh let me go and see if I can work the

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.580
math out and then he sees it was his

00:32:26.580 --> 00:32:28.440
wife was the mathematician but anyways

00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.039
then he sees that the math says it's a

00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.799
possible that it's not just imaginative

00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.559
it's not just cross-modal synthesis

00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.539
whereas if you can't do the math it's

00:32:39.539 --> 00:32:43.080
saying that there's it's it's not that

00:32:43.080 --> 00:32:45.679
closely coupled to the real world

00:32:45.679 --> 00:32:50.480
okay so that's the first thing but then

00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:55.460
people like following Einstein's theory

00:32:55.460 --> 00:33:00.000
they end up getting into doing math that

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.679
this actually happened more with Quantum

00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:03.779
but let's just pretend it was Einstein

00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.059
they end up getting so they can't solve

00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:08.100
the math

00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:10.740
and then they realized and then when the

00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:12.600
colleague says you know this guy's

00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:14.159
learned how to solve those kinds of

00:33:14.159 --> 00:33:16.100
equations so he's a theoretical

00:33:16.100 --> 00:33:18.600
mathematician all he's been doing is

00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:20.519
playing with math

00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.880
but that's the piece you need to solve

00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:27.299
your real world problem so this is

00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:30.240
different so we use our imagination in

00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.640
all the in a lot of these cases to be

00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.000
creative but what we're after with pure

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.559
abstractions

00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:41.340
has some kind of precision to it

00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:43.019
um so

00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:45.659
like a sort of like when it hits reality

00:33:45.659 --> 00:33:47.880
there is a sort of you know across

00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:49.860
multiple sort of situations oh that

00:33:49.860 --> 00:33:51.360
still shows up and it still works

00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:52.919
exactly

00:33:52.919 --> 00:33:55.019
um there's this one

00:33:55.019 --> 00:33:57.620
you watch the one

00:33:58.620 --> 00:34:00.840
the one types of crystals

00:34:00.840 --> 00:34:03.480
that one's interesting because

00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:05.640
it's a great book it was called the

00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.000
second type of impossible and

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.220
they understood you know what tiling

00:34:11.220 --> 00:34:14.040
problems are like there's certain shapes

00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:16.440
they will not tile a square in other

00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:18.419
words if you get a certain shape like a

00:34:18.419 --> 00:34:20.159
four-leaf clover you can put it together

00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.720
put it together put it together in your

00:34:21.720 --> 00:34:24.359
bathroom floor but you have to cut it if

00:34:24.359 --> 00:34:27.179
it's to get to a straight edge and then

00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:31.500
there's certain shapes that will tile a

00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.080
square okay so that's what tiling

00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:36.480
problem is will will they tile without a

00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.560
remainder

00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:40.440
in the math in this is called topology

00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.080
and it's very fascinating because you

00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:45.839
can use typology to predict whether a

00:34:45.839 --> 00:34:47.820
shape will tile a different another

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:48.839
shape

00:34:48.839 --> 00:34:51.480
so we know a bunch of squares won't tile

00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:53.639
a circle

00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.760
but we know certain Arch certain

00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.000
triangles with arches will tile a circle

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.339
right so that's that's what the word

00:35:02.339 --> 00:35:06.080
means and so tiling is this whole

00:35:06.080 --> 00:35:09.420
exploration in math you can make up all

00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:11.400
kinds of questions well how about if we

00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:15.480
try to tile this crazy thing and instead

00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.280
of using

00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.460
you know cut outs they try to do it with

00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:22.920
math and then there's tiling problems in

00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:24.660
three-dimensional space okay so this is

00:35:24.660 --> 00:35:27.420
a hole you can see how it it actually

00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:30.420
you would never want to tile a

00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:31.880
three-dimensional thing but

00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.800
mathematicians like to make up problems

00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.839
like how they'll make up a

00:35:36.839 --> 00:35:38.400
three-dimensional shape and then they

00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.500
ask themselves what shapes will tile

00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:43.619
this so this is complete theoretical

00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:46.079
mathematic mathematics right

00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.000
so you can see what I'm talking about

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.300
they make up a problem and and the math

00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.079
gets really hard uh and then let's say

00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:57.300
they have not been able to figure out

00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:58.440
does anybody know what I'm talking about

00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.339
tiling tiling a problem okay so

00:36:02.339 --> 00:36:05.579
so then let's say they can't figure out

00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:08.220
how to tile a shape in math it doesn't

00:36:08.220 --> 00:36:09.540
mean

00:36:09.540 --> 00:36:11.940
it's not possible it can mean you just

00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.400
haven't figured it out so then people

00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.920
try to prove that it's impossible so now

00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.680
they get very excited about what shapes

00:36:19.680 --> 00:36:22.079
and combinations actually we can prove

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.780
are impossible this becomes more

00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:27.780
abstract right so in the tiling video

00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:30.720
there's a certain there's a certain

00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:33.920
shape and tiling

00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:36.300
relationship that's been proved to be

00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:37.859
impossible

00:36:37.859 --> 00:36:40.680
but then he calls the second the second

00:36:40.680 --> 00:36:43.980
kind of impossible he says but if we go

00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:46.619
deeper than that we go one level deeper

00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:48.980
which is what he did in crystallography

00:36:48.980 --> 00:36:52.800
you'll see that it's possible so just

00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:56.160
another level of extraction and then

00:36:56.160 --> 00:37:00.480
he went around he went around

00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.140
like first like looking at papers

00:37:04.140 --> 00:37:06.119
to see

00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:09.420
uh papers on crystals that people have

00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:10.700
discovered that they didn't understand

00:37:10.700 --> 00:37:15.119
and he found crystals in Africa that had

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.500
that kind of tiling

00:37:19.020 --> 00:37:20.760
that's kind that was supposed to be

00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:21.960
impossible

00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:24.540
so this is like the math you know the

00:37:24.540 --> 00:37:27.359
first level is a tiling problem we

00:37:27.359 --> 00:37:29.760
understand that physically as I just

00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.920
explained they can see it in crystals

00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.500
through a microscope and then it goes to

00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:36.420
the math and then the math proves this

00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.040
and then they see this and then they see

00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:40.260
that and I'm like this is impossible and

00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:43.260
then someone takes a leap and sees a

00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.720
deeper abstraction and then they find a

00:37:45.720 --> 00:37:49.020
thing in real life so there's this it's

00:37:49.020 --> 00:37:51.560
not just imagination there's this

00:37:51.560 --> 00:37:54.839
reality abstraction reality deeper

00:37:54.839 --> 00:37:57.780
abstraction oh this is useful there it's

00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:00.119
quite extraordinary actually what what

00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.640
humans do we we don't like to talk about

00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:05.520
it because then they use these things to

00:38:05.520 --> 00:38:09.359
make weapons and and all kinds of you

00:38:09.359 --> 00:38:11.839
know because I'm our ethical

00:38:11.839 --> 00:38:16.980
response to our intelligence is really

00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:20.579
um so but I'm trying to say this is

00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:22.619
something really cool like if we were

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:24.660
ethical people we could probably do

00:38:24.660 --> 00:38:27.240
really cool stuff with this stuff right

00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:29.160
uh

00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:30.660
but

00:38:30.660 --> 00:38:33.480
um most of us are allergic to it because

00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.880
of the the power that's wielded through

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.880
this type of uh intelligence usually is

00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.380
not satisfactory Phoebe

00:38:46.859 --> 00:38:49.680
Phoebe you're muted so I don't know if

00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:52.020
the story I'm gonna tell is

00:38:52.020 --> 00:38:55.260
um on target with what this module is

00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:57.300
about but

00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:58.320
um

00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.920
I went to my granddaughter's uh concert

00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:02.940
today

00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:05.280
and she's in fourth grade

00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:06.839
and

00:39:06.839 --> 00:39:09.720
they're the kids I guess designed each

00:39:09.720 --> 00:39:11.579
of their own little

00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:14.099
silly skit

00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:18.599
and it was awful

00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:19.920
um

00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.920
they were one was about what I do when

00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.859
I'm bored and I don't know this and how

00:39:25.859 --> 00:39:28.140
do I talk to my mother about please Mom

00:39:28.140 --> 00:39:31.079
I want to watch TV please and uh you

00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:32.579
know I love your really good mom and

00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:34.200
then and then she can't and then she

00:39:34.200 --> 00:39:36.359
sort of all from the child's perspective

00:39:36.359 --> 00:39:40.500
but it was vapid and it was ugly and it

00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:41.339
was

00:39:41.339 --> 00:39:43.140
um and there was no

00:39:43.140 --> 00:39:45.119
it was depressing

00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.940
that these kids were

00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:48.839
um

00:39:48.839 --> 00:39:52.440
weren't being uplifted in any way and

00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.119
they were talking about being on a cell

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:56.040
phone and they were talking about

00:39:56.040 --> 00:39:59.280
uh so there was nothing uplifting and

00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.000
and then I thought about the words

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:06.420
from a letter to the Philippians and I

00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:08.700
please this is not proselytizing but

00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:11.099
this is something that I'm familiar with

00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:13.980
finally brothers and sisters whatever is

00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:18.000
true whatever is Noble whatever is right

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.040
whatever is pure whatever is lovely

00:40:20.040 --> 00:40:21.780
whatever is admirable

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:24.359
if anything is excellent or praiseworthy

00:40:24.359 --> 00:40:26.700
think about such things

00:40:26.700 --> 00:40:29.700
and I thought my God this education

00:40:29.700 --> 00:40:31.500
is missing

00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.920
anything and these are abstract Concepts

00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:38.460
but is missing you know maybe a

00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:40.260
beautiful crystalline structure that

00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:42.960
could help these children grow out of

00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.240
this horrible world that they live in

00:40:45.240 --> 00:40:46.800
whether mostly inside they're mostly in

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.359
front of screens and they're eating junk

00:40:48.359 --> 00:40:49.980
food all the time you know there's

00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:52.619
nothing helping them

00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:54.079
um

00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:59.099
rise to a more beautiful

00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:01.820
structure

00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:06.599
yeah that's totally On Target it's it's

00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.000
it's they don't discover

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:09.900
[Music]

00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:12.780
like I remember watching ants and

00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.480
discovering all kinds of things and you

00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.220
don't even think that much you just

00:41:17.220 --> 00:41:20.599
watch and

00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.000
it's not like you're like like you know

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.000
oh there's complexity and you start

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.859
analyzing it and stuff but you just

00:41:31.859 --> 00:41:35.060
there's so much

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.700
they there's no curiosity they're not

00:41:38.700 --> 00:41:41.880
pointed toward being curious and and so

00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.859
the thing is like that world you

00:41:43.859 --> 00:41:46.140
described it they made skits out of that

00:41:46.140 --> 00:41:49.200
we it we say our modern world's very

00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:53.339
complex because it's fast and there's a

00:41:53.339 --> 00:41:55.560
lot of distractions but it's not complex

00:41:55.560 --> 00:41:58.500
it's not a rich complex environment and

00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:00.780
I think that's why that's what you're

00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:03.540
feeling they're they're they're not in a

00:42:03.540 --> 00:42:06.599
complex and Rich environment

00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.240
um we use the term complex because it's

00:42:09.240 --> 00:42:11.460
fast and there's a lot of distracting

00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:13.980
things but that that just makes it

00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:16.560
disjunctive and complicated

00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:20.040
and isn't it true that there are tones

00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:21.720
or or

00:42:21.720 --> 00:42:24.300
that um like if you have one of those

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:25.619
clonda

00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:27.420
Klondike plates whatever those things

00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:29.400
are called what are those called and

00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.220
that won't create a beautiful geometric

00:42:32.220 --> 00:42:35.339
shape and so it feels like their their

00:42:35.339 --> 00:42:38.540
world is full of

00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:39.480
ugliness

00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:41.460
and it's not just the kids I mean

00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:43.680
there's a lot but there are no real

00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:47.220
tones they're building blocks to help to

00:42:47.220 --> 00:42:49.740
help beautiful shape that would would

00:42:49.740 --> 00:42:51.900
have more complexity maybe also more

00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:54.180
Simplicity in some ways but at least

00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:56.700
there would be structure

00:42:56.700 --> 00:43:01.079
that has coherence yes and it's it's you

00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:03.060
know habitat and habitats like you said

00:43:03.060 --> 00:43:05.160
they're in front of screens and

00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:07.740
Instagram and and they and they just

00:43:07.740 --> 00:43:11.760
mine what that is and inside and so

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.520
their psychology is being built by that

00:43:14.520 --> 00:43:17.400
kind of role-playing mimicking

00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:20.940
um there they act as if people are

00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:24.720
staring at them all the time

00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:27.180
um because they will look at screens

00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:29.520
where people act like the world is

00:43:29.520 --> 00:43:31.619
staring they're always on and they're

00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:36.980
always like it's like it's like

00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:42.079
wow it's there's no

00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:45.420
and of course this is true for people

00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:48.680
but it's so sad because

00:43:48.680 --> 00:43:52.500
most it's so sad to see it develop at

00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:55.760
such a young age so

00:43:58.560 --> 00:44:02.480
not Anna's son though

00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:07.380
he's she showed me something film that

00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:10.319
he's making he's one of his friends

00:44:10.319 --> 00:44:14.180
actually Bonnie is one of his friends

00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:20.760
so by sometimes the way I think about it

00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:22.800
is like

00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.140
um making shapes like making geometry

00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:27.960
patterns even with my thoughts so like

00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.480
like each thought is almost a node and

00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.460
then it draws a line right whatever

00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.619
Association making is Drawing the Line

00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:37.380
so there's a pattern being made and I'm

00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:38.700
kind of curious like sometimes with

00:44:38.700 --> 00:44:40.020
picture abstraction

00:44:40.020 --> 00:44:42.060
it feels like there's sometimes a signal

00:44:42.060 --> 00:44:44.400
or a pointer and so I'm wondering if

00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.079
there's a relationality you have a

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.819
relationship or no relationship between

00:44:47.819 --> 00:44:50.520
talk about the premium signs and pure

00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:51.960
abstraction

00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.680
you mean oh yeah I think I think

00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:59.760
uh that's that dance between what's in

00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.220
the what's there and not there like the

00:45:02.220 --> 00:45:04.079
sign is there but there's something

00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.780
about it that

00:45:06.780 --> 00:45:11.339
sometimes we we use this this phrase

00:45:11.339 --> 00:45:13.619
before and sometimes it comes in this

00:45:13.619 --> 00:45:15.359
language there's something about this

00:45:15.359 --> 00:45:18.300
that's like that but then you realize

00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.160
that this and this I like something

00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:22.859
because of a third thing that's a deeper

00:45:22.859 --> 00:45:24.720
pattern and then that becomes more of an

00:45:24.720 --> 00:45:29.280
abstraction so the sign points to

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:31.079
something else and that could be

00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:33.900
cross-modal synthesis but then you

00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:36.720
realize both of them are instances of

00:45:36.720 --> 00:45:38.339
something

00:45:38.339 --> 00:45:41.160
you could see oh both of them are signs

00:45:41.160 --> 00:45:42.660
now you're working with something called

00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:44.940
a shine which is a pretty deep

00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:47.280
abstraction in the way you're talking

00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:49.260
about it so

00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:50.700
um and then we talked about that earlier

00:45:50.700 --> 00:45:53.040
there's like something this is like that

00:45:53.040 --> 00:45:56.160
and but then this and that an instance

00:45:56.160 --> 00:45:59.220
of that you see it goes yeah deeper and

00:45:59.220 --> 00:46:01.800
then that's an abstraction

00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:03.900
but yeah and the way we organize our

00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.240
thoughts this I think is part of the

00:46:06.240 --> 00:46:10.619
mandala mind we we

00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:11.720
um

00:46:11.720 --> 00:46:14.760
intuitive not even intuitively we

00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:18.980
organize our thoughts by like in

00:46:18.980 --> 00:46:22.380
geometric kind of ways

00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:24.500
um

00:46:25.140 --> 00:46:28.319
yeah certainly right left up down it's

00:46:28.319 --> 00:46:30.240
already a geometry you know over there

00:46:30.240 --> 00:46:32.420
is my memories over there is my jamboard

00:46:32.420 --> 00:46:35.339
up there is uh when I get into flight

00:46:35.339 --> 00:46:38.099
fantasies and down there is when I

00:46:38.099 --> 00:46:40.619
internalize my psyche you know so

00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:44.060
already just those gestures is is

00:46:44.060 --> 00:46:46.800
four-dimensional space so and and then

00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.940
across time so

00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:54.859
um so there's a fundamental geometry in

00:46:54.859 --> 00:46:58.140
how we organize the different processes

00:46:58.140 --> 00:47:01.220
of our mental life

00:47:04.140 --> 00:47:06.619
results

00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:13.920
yeah I want to ask you about maybe just

00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.040
to distinguish a little bit between why

00:47:17.040 --> 00:47:18.780
you're using the word imagination and

00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:20.940
pure abstraction of mean but like I want

00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:22.619
to say a bit more so I can scope my

00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.720
question it doesn't seem like a like a

00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.800
boring nerd question or like a

00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:27.599
metaphysics question which I also don't

00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:29.160
care about

00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:30.900
um

00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:32.940
from the way you're using it it seems

00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.920
like um

00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.260
well first off something imagined is an

00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:38.400
experience I have it's something that

00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.099
appears in my perception so a question I

00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:42.900
have is do I ever have an experience

00:47:42.900 --> 00:47:44.339
with pure abstraction in the way you're

00:47:44.339 --> 00:47:46.619
using the price

00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:49.260
is it ever something in my perception or

00:47:49.260 --> 00:47:50.760
not

00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:51.780
um

00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:53.339
and then sort of this like orthogonal

00:47:53.339 --> 00:47:55.859
line of questioning was

00:47:55.859 --> 00:47:57.060
um is something in the essence of

00:47:57.060 --> 00:47:59.339
abstraction about generalizability or

00:47:59.339 --> 00:48:00.780
generalization

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:02.460
because that does seem to distinguish

00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:03.900
from imagination

00:48:03.900 --> 00:48:05.940
um like I can imagine any any old thing

00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:07.800
and it's like pretty idiosyncratic and

00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:09.119
random

00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:11.040
whereas like it seems like a pure

00:48:11.040 --> 00:48:12.540
abstraction should

00:48:12.540 --> 00:48:13.920
it should be like an affordance or

00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:15.540
something like that like it

00:48:15.540 --> 00:48:18.359
it provides me the potentiality to

00:48:18.359 --> 00:48:21.240
like make intelligible new contexts and

00:48:21.240 --> 00:48:23.160
like imagination is not quite doing that

00:48:23.160 --> 00:48:24.359
or like not all the time or something

00:48:24.359 --> 00:48:26.339
maybe when imagination like renders a

00:48:26.339 --> 00:48:27.960
manifestation of a pure abstraction but

00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:29.579
then this like circles me back to the

00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:30.660
same question

00:48:30.660 --> 00:48:35.359
yeah so this last thing yes imagine

00:48:37.640 --> 00:48:41.280
so we wanna I'm gonna go backwards it's

00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.380
interesting I'm going to trace backwards

00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:45.780
was a great backwards progression so

00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:48.839
when we talk about generalization

00:48:48.839 --> 00:48:50.099
um there's a lot there's some

00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:52.859
distinctions to be made there so we want

00:48:52.859 --> 00:48:54.140
to talk about the difference between

00:48:54.140 --> 00:48:57.960
generalization and categorization

00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.020
so categorization is a kind of math

00:49:01.020 --> 00:49:04.140
called set theory right so the set of

00:49:04.140 --> 00:49:07.440
all cats that's a category and the set

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.359
of all mammals we know the set of all

00:49:09.359 --> 00:49:12.180
cats is inside the set of all mammals

00:49:12.180 --> 00:49:14.880
and then we know the set of counting

00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:18.540
numbers is inside the set of uh all

00:49:18.540 --> 00:49:20.640
rational numbers and this and that it

00:49:20.640 --> 00:49:22.859
turns out they tried to you know

00:49:22.859 --> 00:49:24.780
Bertrand Russell and those guys they

00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:28.079
tried to found math on set theory

00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.940
because they wanted to show that logic

00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:32.040
and math were the same and they're not

00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:35.819
so math is more than set theory more

00:49:35.819 --> 00:49:38.579
than categorization and and so there's a

00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:41.940
kind of generalization that's set theory

00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:44.099
which is categorization which is a kind

00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:45.660
of math

00:49:45.660 --> 00:49:46.680
um

00:49:46.680 --> 00:49:49.619
um but it has it's not very powerful and

00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:51.480
and then we have to be careful that

00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.440
abstraction

00:49:55.140 --> 00:49:57.660
so there's a kind of generalization

00:49:57.660 --> 00:50:01.260
which is like set theory which puts a

00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:03.619
title over things

00:50:03.619 --> 00:50:06.240
and then there's a kind of abstraction

00:50:06.240 --> 00:50:10.619
that it moves in the deeper Direction it

00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:14.160
it it it it sees the fundamental

00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:15.480
principle

00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.380
which then you can take as a concept and

00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:22.079
put a title over a bunch of things but

00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:24.660
it doesn't emerge from putting a title

00:50:24.660 --> 00:50:26.040
do you see Can You Feel the two

00:50:26.040 --> 00:50:29.160
different ways yeah so

00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:31.380
um and so so

00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:35.520
there is this uh

00:50:35.520 --> 00:50:38.460
there so so so

00:50:38.460 --> 00:50:40.380
when you get to the fundamental

00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:42.420
principles then you can generalize

00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:44.099
across many things

00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:46.920
but the process is not

00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:51.599
in that direction it's not a mental

00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.220
um

00:50:53.220 --> 00:50:57.000
it doesn't compile things this way

00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.099
um

00:50:58.099 --> 00:51:00.960
so yeah

00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.760
um

00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:05.400
I mean pure abstraction I call it pure

00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.740
just to say that it's unlike these other

00:51:07.740 --> 00:51:11.040
ways we use this term it's really a very

00:51:11.040 --> 00:51:13.980
fascinating phenomenon

00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:17.640
um uh and because I don't have a

00:51:17.640 --> 00:51:19.079
tremendous amount of first-hand

00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:23.280
experience I can't it's hard for me to

00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.920
talk about the biomarkers of the

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:28.140
phenomenology right I get a hit when I

00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:30.480
listen to the other mathematicians and I

00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.059
can tell there's distinctions

00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:35.460
um but

00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:38.280
um you know the way they can see

00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:40.680
a simple powerful equation as being

00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:43.740
beautiful and right they just see it

00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:47.700
they don't think it or overthink it

00:51:47.700 --> 00:51:51.599
um so I think I call it the best way I

00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.460
can call it because I don't have a

00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:55.099
phenomological

00:51:55.099 --> 00:51:57.660
orientation really is

00:51:57.660 --> 00:52:01.440
that I think the mind is an organ of

00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:04.559
perception and that's what it sees it

00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:06.960
sees so now this is a little different

00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:10.140
than like the social antrika Buddhist

00:52:10.140 --> 00:52:12.540
will say the mind is an organ of

00:52:12.540 --> 00:52:15.480
possession uh it's a sense organ

00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.359
whereas the I see light and vision in

00:52:18.359 --> 00:52:22.800
the ears perceived sound uh the this

00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.319
this is this the mind is a sense organ

00:52:25.319 --> 00:52:28.559
and it and it perceives generalizations

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:32.220
now the term may be Lost in Translation

00:52:32.220 --> 00:52:35.400
because when you read about what they

00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.640
mean by generalizations you read it's

00:52:38.640 --> 00:52:40.740
set theory in categories

00:52:40.740 --> 00:52:43.640
and I'm wondering because you know the

00:52:43.640 --> 00:52:47.300
pythagoreans and the early Persians and

00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:51.500
geometry was seen as something

00:52:51.500 --> 00:52:55.020
deeper you know and Aristotle

00:52:55.020 --> 00:52:57.000
categorized but that's not what

00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.400
Pythagoras was doing so I'm wondering if

00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:02.160
it's the word generalization is Lost in

00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:03.900
Translation

00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:06.240
um I could see the Buddhist making a

00:53:06.240 --> 00:53:08.760
mistake there because they tend to like

00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:11.160
to compress the Mind onto like

00:53:11.160 --> 00:53:13.260
propositional knowing and like Concepts

00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:14.819
and language yeah

00:53:14.819 --> 00:53:16.500
in which case kind of the only

00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:17.880
Primitives you have at hand are like how

00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:20.400
did you label the ship do you have terms

00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.859
which is to say that like I think the

00:53:22.859 --> 00:53:24.000
other thing you're pointing out is more

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.460
like modeling so like understanding like

00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:28.740
fundamental Dynamics and structure which

00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:30.720
is on set theoretical aspects of

00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:32.400
mathematics

00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.980
yeah and they're not so that's a very

00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:36.720
good distinction because what gets

00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:40.980
really tricky is even phenomenology

00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:44.220
uh we'll talk about this in the last the

00:53:44.220 --> 00:53:46.319
last module which is going to be more

00:53:46.319 --> 00:53:47.819
relevant and that is well this has

00:53:47.819 --> 00:53:51.000
become very relevant about awareness but

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:55.579
the thing about phenomenology is that

00:53:55.680 --> 00:53:57.660
you're looking

00:53:57.660 --> 00:54:01.380
you're looking at mental phenomenon and

00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:03.119
there's something about pure abstraction

00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.579
is you're looking at what's in the world

00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:07.500
but it's not there I don't know how to

00:54:07.500 --> 00:54:10.740
say it any different like like it's and

00:54:10.740 --> 00:54:14.040
and and now that's not true for what I

00:54:14.040 --> 00:54:16.859
said mandala mind you're in mandala mind

00:54:16.859 --> 00:54:19.339
you're looking at your mind and

00:54:19.339 --> 00:54:22.140
metaphysics you're looking at The

00:54:22.140 --> 00:54:24.599
Logical patterns of your mind but

00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:26.880
there's something about this other thing

00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:29.640
that seems to me to be different so I

00:54:29.640 --> 00:54:30.599
think you're making the same

00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:32.339
distinctions but this question about can

00:54:32.339 --> 00:54:35.640
we experience pure abstraction

00:54:35.640 --> 00:54:40.640
I would say we experience

00:54:41.040 --> 00:54:44.220
so it'd be like can I experience seeing

00:54:44.220 --> 00:54:46.160
I think I just see

00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:48.119
and

00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:50.700
um and

00:54:50.700 --> 00:54:53.280
I think it's more like that staying with

00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:57.000
my notion of it's an organ of perception

00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.079
um

00:54:58.079 --> 00:54:59.940
and then of course there's a lot of hard

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:04.020
work and stuff that takes takes

00:55:04.020 --> 00:55:08.040
other aspects of your brain to think to

00:55:08.040 --> 00:55:09.420
work but

00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:11.220
um

00:55:11.220 --> 00:55:14.220
yeah

00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:19.579
yeah great questions

00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.300
thanks Anna

00:55:25.020 --> 00:55:27.300
yeah this makes me wonder about what we

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:30.480
just talked about or discussed in in our

00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.660
little group about

00:55:32.660 --> 00:55:35.579
stochastic resonance and heart resonance

00:55:35.579 --> 00:55:38.460
and sympatic redness at resonance

00:55:38.460 --> 00:55:39.720
because

00:55:39.720 --> 00:55:41.640
if I'm seeing sympathic resonance with

00:55:41.640 --> 00:55:44.280
the two crystal glasses and the one

00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.380
glass that actually takes over the

00:55:46.380 --> 00:55:48.300
resonance is always still

00:55:48.300 --> 00:55:50.520
and if I'm thinking of myself being in

00:55:50.520 --> 00:55:53.339
an in front of a symphony orchestra and

00:55:53.339 --> 00:55:55.319
I'm just moving and I'm chatting then

00:55:55.319 --> 00:55:58.200
I'm not getting it but if I'm still and

00:55:58.200 --> 00:56:01.380
I'm seeing what actually is happening I

00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:04.740
can see colors and energies arising and

00:56:04.740 --> 00:56:07.260
it actually does something to me

00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:09.720
and that's the same how I see

00:56:09.720 --> 00:56:13.140
myself being here in my garden it's the

00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:15.119
same thing it's like the symphony

00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:17.700
orchestra it's right in front of me and

00:56:17.700 --> 00:56:19.859
what is it that I have to do with it

00:56:19.859 --> 00:56:23.640
nothing and sometimes I do there's like

00:56:23.640 --> 00:56:26.040
that bow it's both happening at the same

00:56:26.040 --> 00:56:30.119
time the but then it's almost like with

00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:31.920
um with a mandala I can see in the

00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:33.660
morning when I'm it's not I'm not

00:56:33.660 --> 00:56:35.220
sitting still and I'm meditating but

00:56:35.220 --> 00:56:38.040
it's like there are patterns arising and

00:56:38.040 --> 00:56:40.020
I'm very curious can I

00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:42.960
those patterns and the the symbols that

00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.260
are also symbols that are arising

00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:49.040
how can I be with them without

00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:51.420
objectifying them or making meaning of

00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:53.760
them to hold on to them to make them as

00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.339
possessions but allow them to come

00:56:56.339 --> 00:56:59.420
through and trust them

00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:03.300
because I think that's what's happening

00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:04.980
more and more I start to trust what's

00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:07.260
coming through even though it doesn't

00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:09.960
make any sense but the moment I see my

00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:13.200
mind wanting to make meaning of it

00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:15.180
then it's not having any meaning anymore

00:57:15.180 --> 00:57:17.940
it's like being in a group and feeling

00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:20.220
it and the moment I start to talk to it

00:57:20.220 --> 00:57:21.180
it's gone

00:57:21.180 --> 00:57:24.720
and and that's such a thin line I don't

00:57:24.720 --> 00:57:26.400
know if that makes any sense but to me

00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.420
does but yeah yeah so

00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:32.400
um

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.460
and and really I'm out of my territory

00:57:35.460 --> 00:57:37.680
here too other things I've I've taught

00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:41.220
100 million times but okay so Harry hunt

00:57:41.220 --> 00:57:44.220
would say he talks about mandala mind

00:57:44.220 --> 00:57:48.119
okay so he would say

00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:49.020
um

00:57:49.020 --> 00:57:52.920
I've read it 17 times for this

00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.900
uh module and it's still quite

00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.700
um

00:57:59.700 --> 00:58:02.099
hard to get a purchase on it he says

00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:03.540
something like

00:58:03.540 --> 00:58:06.839
because the mind organizes itself

00:58:06.839 --> 00:58:09.000
geometrically

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:12.000
like this is global rhythms let's say in

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:15.059
the mind and you could think of the

00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:18.420
cinematics the the vibration sometimes

00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:21.000
coheres into a geometry and sometimes

00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.460
it's in between states and our mind is

00:58:23.460 --> 00:58:27.480
the same way but when it coheres

00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:28.859
it

00:58:28.859 --> 00:58:31.859
it has geometric I'm going to use very

00:58:31.859 --> 00:58:35.160
simple language it shows us it

00:58:35.160 --> 00:58:37.559
demonstrates or can be perceived as

00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:39.359
geometric shapes

00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:42.000
he's going to say it's not that we then

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:44.940
project that geometry in the world he's

00:58:44.940 --> 00:58:47.880
going to say because geometry is a

00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:50.880
fundamental pattern in the world then it

00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.920
must be a fundamental pattern in this

00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:55.079
part of the world called my mind

00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:58.559
and be and therefore you know it's like

00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:01.440
Von oxel said if the eye were not like

00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:05.540
the sun it could not see there has to be

00:59:05.540 --> 00:59:08.339
twins the eye and the Sun have to be

00:59:08.339 --> 00:59:11.520
twins born of the same mother in order

00:59:11.520 --> 00:59:14.520
for them to relate and this is something

00:59:14.520 --> 00:59:18.059
how he's saying like it's not that we're

00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:22.079
projecting certainly if we're seeing the

00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.079
patterns in our mind we're we're seeing

00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:27.780
Global processing in our minds something

00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:29.339
about our minds

00:59:29.339 --> 00:59:31.559
but he's saying we don't project that

00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.040
out there

00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.740
we're seeing that there's that they're

00:59:37.740 --> 00:59:38.760
twins

00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:42.540
they're born of the same mother

00:59:42.540 --> 00:59:44.520
um that's the best way I can say it

00:59:44.520 --> 00:59:47.520
without getting uh

00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:49.619
lost in

00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:53.339
Concepts that are rabbit holes but

00:59:53.339 --> 00:59:54.540
um

00:59:54.540 --> 00:59:55.740
yeah

00:59:55.740 --> 00:59:58.319
it's kind of like if you met your actual

00:59:58.319 --> 01:00:01.020
twin and you're like wow isn't that

01:00:01.020 --> 01:00:03.000
weird you have the same color hair and

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:04.559
your eyes look the same with mine and

01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:07.319
then you realize ah it's not weird we're

01:00:07.319 --> 01:00:10.740
born of the same mother or even more

01:00:10.740 --> 01:00:13.380
we're the same egg or something it's

01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:16.500
this is more of what he said you know

01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:17.099
um

01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:20.900
so uh

01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:24.960
you see it's part of

01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.079
not getting hung up on a subjective like

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.299
this is exactly what you were pantom

01:00:30.299 --> 01:00:32.460
mining is it a subjective quality or is

01:00:32.460 --> 01:00:36.119
it objective quality and and at this

01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:37.740
level he says that's what you're looking

01:00:37.740 --> 01:00:40.460
at the thing that is

01:00:40.460 --> 01:00:43.319
simultaneously well subjective and

01:00:43.319 --> 01:00:45.299
objective

01:00:45.299 --> 01:00:47.880
or for the the reasons why they're

01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.920
self-similar is because they're twins

01:01:01.319 --> 01:01:04.380
yeah and you know all these this is it's

01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:07.700
all very fascinating

01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:25.940
it's yeah go ahead go ahead

01:01:26.040 --> 01:01:28.619
well one question that

01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:31.559
um I asked in our group was um we talked

01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:33.839
about the mazes and the mice and how do

01:01:33.839 --> 01:01:37.400
you get yourself out of a maze

01:01:37.740 --> 01:01:40.079
um how do you come into something

01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:42.900
outside of the structures that have you

01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:45.299
know you've lived inside of

01:01:45.299 --> 01:01:47.160
and um

01:01:47.160 --> 01:01:50.280
I'm I'm really curious about the mind uh

01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:51.299
being

01:01:51.299 --> 01:01:51.900
um

01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:53.940
organizes organizing itself

01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:59.420
geometrically and um so

01:02:00.240 --> 01:02:03.839
I I'm on a threshold of growth right now

01:02:03.839 --> 01:02:08.819
and and I have asked for

01:02:08.819 --> 01:02:11.819
um something in prayer

01:02:11.819 --> 01:02:13.559
and

01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:15.740
um

01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:20.579
and I feel something in my spine

01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:22.980
that I've never felt before and sort of

01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:26.400
an activation in a way or just Just

01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:27.540
Energy

01:02:27.540 --> 01:02:30.359
and so maybe I could say like okay there

01:02:30.359 --> 01:02:34.440
is a much bigger structure

01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:39.660
that I can't uh that I I'm not in

01:02:39.660 --> 01:02:43.859
and yet it's in direct response to my

01:02:43.859 --> 01:02:45.420
prayer it's in relationship with my

01:02:45.420 --> 01:02:50.040
prayer and my prayer came to me because

01:02:50.040 --> 01:02:52.559
there is this

01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:57.059
uh larger or uh more beautiful

01:02:57.059 --> 01:02:59.460
structure

01:02:59.460 --> 01:03:03.059
and structures maybe a clunky word

01:03:03.059 --> 01:03:03.900
um

01:03:03.900 --> 01:03:07.760
you could say maybe uh

01:03:07.799 --> 01:03:12.440
beauty or coherence that is calling me

01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.900
so that's all like grasping at the edge

01:03:15.900 --> 01:03:18.359
of um

01:03:18.359 --> 01:03:21.180
what my experience is but so I would say

01:03:21.180 --> 01:03:24.680
to get out of the maze

01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:31.339
maybe is to experience something

01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:34.980
that has a bigger structure or or a

01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:36.299
larger

01:03:36.299 --> 01:03:37.859
or

01:03:37.859 --> 01:03:39.660
I don't know those those words don't

01:03:39.660 --> 01:03:42.140
even feel

01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:46.020
useful but

01:03:46.020 --> 01:03:48.420
yeah I mean we're lit we're hearing the

01:03:48.420 --> 01:03:50.460
words as like you said clunky in

01:03:50.460 --> 01:03:52.040
placeholders

01:03:52.040 --> 01:03:55.140
uh so we're getting getting we're not

01:03:55.140 --> 01:03:57.720
we're not hung up on that like I get it

01:03:57.720 --> 01:03:59.520
structure what other whatever word

01:03:59.520 --> 01:04:02.040
you're going to use so uh

01:04:02.040 --> 01:04:06.660
but yeah so that was another interesting

01:04:06.660 --> 01:04:09.299
video like how I had just conversation

01:04:09.299 --> 01:04:11.160
with some of that perspective which is

01:04:11.160 --> 01:04:13.760
today like

01:04:16.680 --> 01:04:19.799
he was he was calling it um I've never

01:04:19.799 --> 01:04:21.599
heard this term before

01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:25.440
um but I guess there's a debate between

01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.260
the actualism and possibility

01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.540
possibilism

01:04:30.540 --> 01:04:34.079
actualism was like people reacting to

01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:36.540
what is the poly crisis you know this is

01:04:36.540 --> 01:04:37.799
happening this is happening this is

01:04:37.799 --> 01:04:39.420
happening this is happening this we have

01:04:39.420 --> 01:04:41.040
to do something about it

01:04:41.040 --> 01:04:45.780
and then he's like the alternative is

01:04:45.780 --> 01:04:48.119
to see what we're not doing what is

01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:51.599
possible that we're not doing and

01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:54.200
um uh

01:04:54.200 --> 01:04:57.420
so this is very similar to what you're

01:04:57.420 --> 01:04:59.819
describing as like this orthogonal move

01:04:59.819 --> 01:05:02.400
like like

01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:03.480
um

01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:06.359
and and the video on the of the mice is

01:05:06.359 --> 01:05:08.940
exactly that like how it gets more and

01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:11.099
more and more complex and they're

01:05:11.099 --> 01:05:13.500
shaving off hundreds of millions of

01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:18.859
seconds and then someone sees something

01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:22.260
that no one else saw right that was

01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:24.599
hidden in plain sight that it's not

01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:28.500
about navigating the walls it's about

01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:31.200
you know like in the matrix it's not

01:05:31.200 --> 01:05:33.960
about uh fighting off the bullets it's

01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:38.460
about moving through them you know

01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:41.480
um so

01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:49.819
that's about this mind shift to to

01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:52.740
you know it's interesting that video

01:05:52.740 --> 01:05:55.079
because that was a mind shift to asking

01:05:55.079 --> 01:05:57.720
a more abstract question and then the

01:05:57.720 --> 01:06:00.000
video ends with they're actually asked a

01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:02.220
more concrete question how can we keep

01:06:02.220 --> 01:06:04.380
more more

01:06:04.380 --> 01:06:08.819
traction on the on the uh

01:06:08.819 --> 01:06:10.440
on the floor

01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:13.160
but

01:06:13.680 --> 01:06:16.160
so that's a metaphor like you're you're

01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:19.040
using it the right way like

01:06:19.040 --> 01:06:22.520
why is that

01:06:23.359 --> 01:06:26.220
if we use that as a metaphor how could

01:06:26.220 --> 01:06:27.079
that

01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:30.299
inform me of

01:06:30.299 --> 01:06:33.720
like you said of this stage I'm in that

01:06:33.720 --> 01:06:34.980
seems

01:06:34.980 --> 01:06:36.660
you know while you were talking I was

01:06:36.660 --> 01:06:38.160
thinking you know what prayer is it's

01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:40.380
it's a dis it's putting yourself in a

01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:42.480
dispositional state

01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:45.539
that yeah that's a it's a very powerful

01:06:45.539 --> 01:06:48.240
technique you're in a the dispositional

01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:52.700
state for transformation for

01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.579
uh

01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:04.200
I would say for direct relationship

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:07.200
and for relationship or something that I

01:07:07.200 --> 01:07:08.819
that's bigger than I am that I don't

01:07:08.819 --> 01:07:10.079
know yeah

01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:14.579
come in and in order

01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:16.680
and in order to be in that relationship

01:07:16.680 --> 01:07:20.520
I have to keep moving way past you know

01:07:20.520 --> 01:07:23.579
who I am so it's an ongoing

01:07:23.579 --> 01:07:26.359
uh

01:07:26.579 --> 01:07:29.099
all you can do is put yourself back into

01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:30.960
a dispositional state because not up to

01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:32.579
you who you're becoming right like

01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:34.870
you're you're yeah

01:07:34.870 --> 01:07:37.989
[Music]

01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:18.960
it would be like the eyes

01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:22.500
maybe and the Sun

01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:26.179
developing a relationship

01:08:41.339 --> 01:08:43.560
this was good I think you're getting the

01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:46.620
this sense of what this territory we're

01:08:46.620 --> 01:08:48.239
trying to

01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:51.060
get a hit off of

01:08:51.060 --> 01:08:53.060
um

01:09:20.160 --> 01:09:22.739
and why like a lot of

01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:24.779
people who are gifted in this area

01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:27.960
really think that you know they talk

01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:30.060
about God when they talk about math

01:09:30.060 --> 01:09:32.819
discovering these beautiful

01:09:32.819 --> 01:09:35.960
deep patterns

01:09:55.500 --> 01:09:58.920
okay my friends this was excellent thank

01:09:58.920 --> 01:09:59.940
you for

01:09:59.940 --> 01:10:04.320
really bringing up bringing life to this

01:10:04.320 --> 01:10:06.900
module uh we did a little better this

01:10:06.900 --> 01:10:10.560
time than last time so hopefully we can

01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.080
continue and if you want to play with

01:10:13.080 --> 01:10:15.179
the material I have some exercises to do

01:10:15.179 --> 01:10:17.880
but I think that uh we'll see if we can

01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:21.540
get a better continue to build on uh

01:10:21.540 --> 01:10:23.460
yeah the felt sense of this this

01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:25.980
dimension of The Human Experience very

01:10:25.980 --> 01:10:27.900
good distinctions

01:10:27.900 --> 01:10:29.699
um which are not trivial they're not

01:10:29.699 --> 01:10:31.860
easy to make so

01:10:31.860 --> 01:10:33.780
um yeah I really appreciate the effort

01:10:33.780 --> 01:10:36.620
thank you very much

01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:40.520
foreign



## Cohort 3

00:00:01.260 --> 00:00:04.220
foreign

00:00:04.220 --> 00:00:06.360
okay hi everyone

00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:09.509
[Music]

00:00:10.440 --> 00:00:12.960
um all right so today we're going to do

00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.299
what I've been putting off

00:00:15.299 --> 00:00:17.820
the first two cards we're gonna do some

00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:20.100
exercises

00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:23.939
and uh the purpose of the exercises are

00:00:23.939 --> 00:00:27.800
for us to have fun

00:00:27.900 --> 00:00:28.680
um

00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:33.140
but also to notice

00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:36.360
you might want to get a cocktail before

00:00:36.360 --> 00:00:39.000
we start oh sandals here he only good at

00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.100
these exercises good

00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:43.920
just hope you all should hope you're in

00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:46.379
the breakout room with Samuel because he

00:00:46.379 --> 00:00:48.980
comes

00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:52.020
um okay

00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:55.020
so we're gonna do exercises

00:00:55.020 --> 00:00:56.460
um

00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:01.079
and uh the the purpose of the exercises

00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:04.140
is a couple of things one is to try to

00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:07.200
do the exercises uh to have fun with

00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:09.060
them

00:01:09.060 --> 00:01:14.100
um to do them together so like if one

00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:16.080
person says well I think this one goes

00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:17.700
next and the other room person says you

00:01:17.700 --> 00:01:20.159
know I think that one goes next to talk

00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:24.299
about why you think they go uh where

00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:26.400
they go

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.439
um and but also to notice

00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:32.520
what is

00:01:32.520 --> 00:01:34.680
being asked of you what's the

00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:36.780
abstraction muscle that's being asked

00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:38.280
you know like when you go and you do

00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:40.259
yoga and you're getting an introductory

00:01:40.259 --> 00:01:42.720
class but they're really masochistics

00:01:42.720 --> 00:01:44.700
they're sadists and they put you in

00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:48.360
these poses and it really hurts uh and

00:01:48.360 --> 00:01:51.899
and you can tell what muscles it's it's

00:01:51.899 --> 00:01:54.360
um challenging so part of this could be

00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:59.000
to reflect on where does your mind go

00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.799
and what

00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:03.720
is the experience of what is the

00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:05.880
question being asked of you okay

00:02:05.880 --> 00:02:08.819
does that make sense I mean because

00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:10.200
um

00:02:10.200 --> 00:02:13.080
this is exactly the kind of test when

00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.300
you were children that made you

00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:16.980
first going to start with a test and

00:02:16.980 --> 00:02:18.360
when your children's made you very

00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.599
nervous they should it should be fun I

00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.520
read an art an article today a

00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.140
scientific article that said more

00:02:25.140 --> 00:02:29.640
complex thinkers are worse at IQ tests

00:02:29.640 --> 00:02:33.720
okay because we over complex if I think

00:02:33.720 --> 00:02:36.720
I don't know why it was a neuro it was

00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:38.459
they had like they showed brain scans

00:02:38.459 --> 00:02:39.900
and the part of your brain that lights

00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:41.819
up on your complex thinker is not the

00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:43.800
part of the brain that works with simple

00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.980
abstractions so uh we can if you're

00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:48.300
having trouble with these you can

00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:50.760
Delight uh in the fact that you're

00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:52.319
having trouble with them because that

00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:55.140
means you're a more complex thinker so

00:02:55.140 --> 00:02:57.480
just take that and put that as a cherry

00:02:57.480 --> 00:02:59.760
on your cake

00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:01.920
but I thought we would start mommy Adam

00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:03.360
it sounded like you were going to say it

00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:05.420
because they're more neurotic

00:03:05.420 --> 00:03:08.280
no no no they're more

00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.959
the different parts of your brain light

00:03:09.959 --> 00:03:12.720
up and and I don't know

00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:15.959
um so we're gonna start with

00:03:15.959 --> 00:03:18.800
um one

00:03:19.980 --> 00:03:21.060
um

00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.060
we're gonna start with one IQ test it

00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:26.340
starts off really easy I shouldn't say

00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:28.560
that it may be challenging for you in

00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:29.940
the beginning

00:03:29.940 --> 00:03:32.400
um but what you'll have to do is you'll

00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:34.400
have in this case you'll have to open

00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.280
the uh you know the you have to open the

00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:39.780
screen

00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:41.700
um by yourself so just make sure

00:03:41.700 --> 00:03:43.739
everyone's on the same page I wonder if

00:03:43.739 --> 00:03:46.940
people could share a screen uh multiple

00:03:46.940 --> 00:03:51.239
participants can share simultaneously

00:03:51.239 --> 00:03:52.400
um

00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:54.840
so you might be able to share your

00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.360
screen in the breakout room I just wrote

00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:59.299
multiple participants can share

00:03:59.299 --> 00:04:01.799
simultaneously which means you can

00:04:01.799 --> 00:04:03.599
choose one participant to open the

00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.040
screen you can all play with the

00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:08.159
question uh together

00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:13.140
um maybe what else I can do is uh

00:04:13.140 --> 00:04:15.140
um

00:04:21.419 --> 00:04:25.199
no let's just see if if that works so

00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.380
when you go into a room uh

00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:30.479
do you ever notice if you have a share

00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:31.860
screen option when you're in the

00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:33.560
breakout room

00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:36.840
okay well try to see if you have a share

00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:38.460
screen option it'll be more fun for

00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:40.919
everybody to be working on the same

00:04:40.919 --> 00:04:44.759
thing than on your own so but the first

00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:45.419
um

00:04:45.419 --> 00:04:49.919
this is a this is a pattern

00:04:49.919 --> 00:04:54.840
shape and pattern recognizing quiz see

00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:58.199
if you can everybody can get bring it up

00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:00.800
on their computer

00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:06.540
that's pretty simple right

00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:09.080
foreign

00:05:16.380 --> 00:05:18.780
sorry I'm not so good on this technology

00:05:18.780 --> 00:05:20.759
can we go on a group with where I'll

00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.280
just get shared

00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:27.800
I hope so if you're not uh

00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:33.960
second and then come back right come

00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:35.160
back

00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:38.699
in and we'll see what we'll see what the

00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:40.680
breakout rooms will have if you can do

00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:41.820
that okay

00:05:41.820 --> 00:05:45.539
okay so I've opened it now okay but then

00:05:45.539 --> 00:05:47.039
how do I come back

00:05:47.039 --> 00:05:48.539
you're right here

00:05:48.539 --> 00:05:51.300
oh just minimize your screens we're

00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:53.340
still here you just you just have to

00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:55.259
yeah yeah I can hear you okay yeah yeah

00:05:55.259 --> 00:06:00.539
thank you all right so hopefully okay so

00:06:00.539 --> 00:06:02.460
um now what you're gonna notice you're

00:06:02.460 --> 00:06:04.740
gonna notice a couple of things one is

00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:07.380
as you're trying to describe it to each

00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:09.300
other if you're not looking at the same

00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:11.699
shared screen it's going to be hard to

00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:13.199
describe what's going on like you'll

00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:15.120
find you'll see language is like you

00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:16.919
know the third box on the right of the

00:06:16.919 --> 00:06:19.860
second one you'll notice that language

00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:22.919
is very clunky uh when you deal with

00:06:22.919 --> 00:06:24.720
abstractions

00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.660
um you can use language but there's a

00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:30.180
whole lot there's so many it's very

00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:31.919
expensive you have to say a lot of

00:06:31.919 --> 00:06:34.680
things to point to one thing uh so you

00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:36.120
can notice that

00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.300
now if you happen to be in a room where

00:06:39.300 --> 00:06:43.080
uh someone is very good at this

00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:46.199
then the person who's very good at it

00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.220
your job is to explain

00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:53.100
why the answer is the answer that it is

00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:55.560
so again you're going to be hung up in

00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.199
this this language kind of thing all

00:06:58.199 --> 00:06:59.460
right so the way you're going to start

00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:01.979
is everyone is going to look at the

00:07:01.979 --> 00:07:05.360
thing uh figure out what their answer is

00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:07.800
share their answers don't click through

00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:09.479
the screen and then see if everyone

00:07:09.479 --> 00:07:11.580
agrees if everyone agrees it's obvious

00:07:11.580 --> 00:07:12.960
to everyone and then you can move on

00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:15.120
right but if you all have different

00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.880
answers you need to try to talk about

00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:20.340
what is the pattern that you're seeing

00:07:20.340 --> 00:07:24.419
and try to get to consensus on these on

00:07:24.419 --> 00:07:28.340
these questions does that make sense

00:07:30.780 --> 00:07:33.660
so everybody thinks about through uh

00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:36.120
their own solution and then we share or

00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:37.680
like and then we explain to each other

00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.080
yeah so first you're gonna all just

00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:42.840
think it through don't click yet and

00:07:42.840 --> 00:07:44.880
then see if everybody agrees on the same

00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:47.340
answer if you all agree on the same

00:07:47.340 --> 00:07:48.960
answer you don't have to talk about it

00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:50.759
it's just because everybody sees the

00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:55.259
same thing you go to the next one and I

00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:56.759
mean you can talk about it someone might

00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:58.560
say oh I didn't know if it was this one

00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.319
or that one I guessed and then you go to

00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:02.940
the next one

00:08:02.940 --> 00:08:05.460
um but you what's really interesting is

00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:09.000
when people don't agree or or

00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:10.979
you know there's some conversation that

00:08:10.979 --> 00:08:13.020
has to happen

00:08:13.020 --> 00:08:15.840
um I I find even number two

00:08:15.840 --> 00:08:18.419
number one seems pretty easy even number

00:08:18.419 --> 00:08:19.560
two

00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.440
there's um there's some

00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:24.240
uh

00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.580
work to be done

00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:29.340
um but that's because I'm at the age

00:08:29.340 --> 00:08:32.580
where these the

00:08:32.580 --> 00:08:35.880
um I'm sure when I was young I took it Q

00:08:35.880 --> 00:08:37.979
test number two was just obvious to me

00:08:37.979 --> 00:08:41.880
okay so this is this is this is you'll

00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:44.700
find your own whether it's a struggle or

00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:46.320
not

00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.080
um so Samuel I'm suspecting it may be

00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.360
wrong that some of these would be like

00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.600
 plainly obvious to you so the

00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:56.760
interesting thing is to notice

00:08:56.760 --> 00:08:59.339
where why it's not obvious to other

00:08:59.339 --> 00:09:02.040
people I might be wrong uh but these

00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:04.019
certainly are tests that for some people

00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:06.240
especially a certain age

00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.820
um it's much more obvious to them

00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:09.600
um

00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.180
okay so we don't get hung up on whether

00:09:12.180 --> 00:09:14.580
or not these things are easy

00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:16.860
um there is as I said more complex

00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:20.580
thinkers do worse on IQ tests our brains

00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:24.839
uh have been wired along a certain uh

00:09:24.839 --> 00:09:27.540
way but what we want to do is use it

00:09:27.540 --> 00:09:30.240
like we've been using to to see the feel

00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.080
the embodied try not to like let the

00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:36.120
psychological embarrassment I'm an idiot

00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.700
come through it will a little bit it did

00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:43.440
for me uh and just try to understand the

00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.279
embodied experience the perceptual the

00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.820
import what is what is the puzzle asking

00:09:50.820 --> 00:09:53.820
you uh to draw upon does that make sense

00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:56.220
and then you know if it's just

00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:58.080
ridiculous and you wanna you just want

00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:00.600
to guess through you know some of the

00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.399
questions if you guessed through to tell

00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:03.839
you the answer and then you can work

00:10:03.839 --> 00:10:06.420
backwards from the answer to trying to

00:10:06.420 --> 00:10:08.820
figure out why that was the answer all

00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:11.519
these things are possible and we're

00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.279
gonna we're gonna spend a half an hour

00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.260
and

00:10:16.260 --> 00:10:19.200
um you can play with them you can talk

00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.260
about them afterwards if I'm not sure

00:10:22.260 --> 00:10:24.180
how many questions are there if there's

00:10:24.180 --> 00:10:26.100
only a few and you finish early just

00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:28.320
just come back in okay

00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.800
but I'll set it up for a half an hour

00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:34.140
are there any questions

00:10:34.140 --> 00:10:37.380
basically you can you know play with it

00:10:37.380 --> 00:10:39.360
the way you want

00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.459
um so

00:10:41.459 --> 00:10:42.060
um

00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:46.920
okay so breakout rooms is

00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:49.399
here

00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:53.240
um let's see um

00:10:53.579 --> 00:10:56.399
anyone uh I'm gonna have three breakout

00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:58.320
rooms so it's two or three people that's

00:10:58.320 --> 00:10:59.760
good

00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:03.660
um and let's see

00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:06.060
uh

00:11:06.060 --> 00:11:10.380
okay that's good oh that's good okay so

00:11:10.380 --> 00:11:12.779
it's really been very smart the way it

00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:14.820
assigned you I think in terms of like

00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:18.720
the capacities so we'll go with them and

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.620
uh we'll go for 30 minutes and

00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:25.260
uh

00:11:25.260 --> 00:11:30.839
yeah and enjoy enjoy the games and uh

00:11:30.839 --> 00:11:33.740
enjoy your company

00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.579
you mean everybody's gonna get me right

00:11:56.579 --> 00:11:59.420
off the top

00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:01.980
that's a shame what the are you

00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.079
talking about

00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:07.019
yeah this is good because I want the

00:12:07.019 --> 00:12:08.940
next group will be scared to do the

00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.540
tests again

00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:17.339
so um I was telling uh Aaron and Bonita

00:12:17.339 --> 00:12:20.339
that after the first cohort

00:12:20.339 --> 00:12:22.380
and after seeing

00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:23.040
um

00:12:23.040 --> 00:12:25.800
you know all the different videos of all

00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:27.839
the different math and all the different

00:12:27.839 --> 00:12:30.779
diagrams and the different patternings

00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:33.060
and the the mouse

00:12:33.060 --> 00:12:35.220
uh running in the Maze and all the

00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:37.560
different stuff I got across my email

00:12:37.560 --> 00:12:39.680
this um

00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:41.360
essay

00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:47.240
that explored the nature of Elegance

00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:49.800
and

00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:52.260
if I got an Insight I'm not sure I got

00:12:52.260 --> 00:12:54.959
an Insight Bonnie but I got

00:12:54.959 --> 00:12:58.760
an inquiry a search

00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:02.820
and what I got was

00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.820
for me it's hard to

00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:09.000
you know as Sandra was saying cognitize

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.639
abstraction

00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.300
it's hard for me to think about it

00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:17.820
and talk about it

00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:21.480
and it's really hard to apply it and

00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.079
have it inform my everyday

00:13:25.079 --> 00:13:27.240
life

00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:30.060
at the same time

00:13:30.060 --> 00:13:33.019
I know

00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:36.540
that we're looking for a new theory of

00:13:36.540 --> 00:13:40.320
the body and this module is the next

00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.000
piece so how does that be peace

00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:48.139
inform the new theory of the body I get

00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:51.300
imagination I get perception I get this

00:13:51.300 --> 00:13:54.660
position you know I I get

00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:56.959
um narrative

00:13:56.959 --> 00:13:59.639
representational thinking but

00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:01.920
abstraction well that's kind of weird

00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:04.079
for me to apply

00:14:04.079 --> 00:14:07.740
in my everyday life

00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:10.620
and so he starts out this article the

00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:14.220
header is What's called the mandelbrot

00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:16.139
sequence

00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:21.440
it's this sequence like we've seen of

00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:25.500
infinitesimal spirals spirals inside of

00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.040
spirals inside of spirals kind of like

00:14:29.040 --> 00:14:31.279
um rich blundells

00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.040
Cosmic circles or Tauruses on top of

00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:36.480
Tauruses

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.480
and what he says is to Define Elegance

00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.360
after looking at that

00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:44.399
fractal

00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.760
image has immense and complex

00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.519
information content

00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:55.440
but is ordered at every level with a

00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.360
repeating pattern

00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.720
and is thus

00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.720
incredibly elegant

00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:07.019
and he actually shows

00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:10.740
a picture of Fred Astaire dancing

00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.779
maybe Samuel doesn't know who Fred

00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:15.199
Astaire is because he's so young

00:15:15.199 --> 00:15:20.880
it's this really beautiful dance dancer

00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:25.320
who has all this complexity going on and

00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.019
his movements are elegant and another

00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:32.639
example is Princess Kate

00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.820
who wears this Sleek beautiful dress

00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.579
with this wild hat

00:15:38.579 --> 00:15:42.120
that doesn't match but put together it

00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.420
has this Elegance the simplifying

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:48.199
precision

00:15:48.839 --> 00:15:52.260
so I'm glad Aaron's here and that's why

00:15:52.260 --> 00:15:55.079
I'm bringing this up I think that

00:15:55.079 --> 00:15:58.860
looking for the Elegance as as we look

00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:00.839
out

00:16:00.839 --> 00:16:04.680
if we look at reality looking for

00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:07.459
Elegance

00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:10.519
there's a way to

00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.160
simplify the complexity and get this

00:16:14.160 --> 00:16:17.160
satisfaction

00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:23.220
from the original arousal

00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:26.279
so I was at Bonnie's house and Aaron was

00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.260
at Bonnie's house

00:16:28.260 --> 00:16:31.139
Sandra was there and Katie was there and

00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:33.660
when we were doing the paddock wrestling

00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:38.459
I'll call it wrestling Aaron

00:16:38.459 --> 00:16:40.380
it's more like

00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:42.720
hardcore dancing but let's call it

00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.940
wrestling

00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:48.240
um and I was paired with Aaron and the

00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.820
idea was that we would be face to face

00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.339
and the challenge was to get behind your

00:16:56.339 --> 00:16:58.980
partner and put your arms around your

00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:00.240
partner

00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.600
so we moved and we moved and we moved I

00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:05.760
don't know if you saw this Bonnie

00:17:05.760 --> 00:17:09.120
but it was this long really wonderful

00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:11.360
connection and

00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:14.160
movement and each of us trying and we

00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.720
tried and we tried

00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.980
then all of a sudden

00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:23.280
where's Aaron he disappeared

00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:27.299
he was behind me with his arms around me

00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:30.780
and I have no idea what happened

00:17:30.780 --> 00:17:33.480
but I came away with really this

00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.900
wonderful memorable connection to Aaron

00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:40.020
as a person in that experience

00:17:40.020 --> 00:17:45.320
but there was an Elegance in his move

00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.679
he brought together all this complexity

00:17:49.679 --> 00:17:52.740
and there was just this Elegance in his

00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:55.039
move

00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:02.580
so I think that there's something there

00:18:02.580 --> 00:18:07.340
in looking at a new theory of the body

00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:11.100
allowing Elegance to

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:13.940
appear

00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.299
I love this phrase elegant uh simplified

00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:21.440
Precision I would say elegant precision

00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.960
versus sharp precision and that's a

00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.600
cross-modal thing we can do like you

00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:29.760
know why is it because when usually we

00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:31.260
think of precision we think of like

00:18:31.260 --> 00:18:34.799
accountants this sharpness but and yeah

00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.780
so their dance is a kind of an

00:18:36.780 --> 00:18:39.179
abstraction choreography is a kind of an

00:18:39.179 --> 00:18:42.360
abstraction and what you and what so he

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:44.280
had elegance and he had something

00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:48.780
extremely precise in his movements right

00:18:48.780 --> 00:18:50.340
um so

00:18:50.340 --> 00:18:52.740
um yeah I think that's perfect uh that's

00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:55.760
beautiful and perfect

00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.679
where we want want to go with this and

00:18:58.679 --> 00:19:01.140
and then you get a hit like this is the

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:04.740
hit that uh mathematicians because they

00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:06.600
live in that world that's the same hit

00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:08.700
they get like how did that happen you

00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:11.120
know like

00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:13.980
actually he starts out with the Euler

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:17.100
equation also which goes beyond me yeah

00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:18.000
yeah

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.220
yeah I don't understand it but I get the

00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:22.799
hit from those videos right like that

00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.960
it's there's something so simple and

00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.480
elegant going on but it but you know

00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.580
there's a Precision that's same thing

00:19:29.580 --> 00:19:32.460
like you may not be able to do that move

00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:36.120
because you sort of witnessed it uh but

00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:37.620
you certainly

00:19:37.620 --> 00:19:40.620
understand that it's one of those kinds

00:19:40.620 --> 00:19:43.620
of moves you know

00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:45.780
um well I know I know what happened I

00:19:45.780 --> 00:19:48.960
was focused on getting to him

00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.440
and he saw a loophole that I lost I lost

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.460
my uh ground because I was gonna get it

00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:59.220
and all of a sudden he was there

00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:02.059
thank you

00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:07.020
Magdalena

00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:09.360
um I'll try to say this quickly but I

00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:12.660
had a really

00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.340
um

00:20:14.340 --> 00:20:17.220
it it really happened today in this

00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:20.940
difficult conversation with somebody who

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:23.520
was struggling with

00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:28.080
kind of a whole systemic situation in

00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:30.480
general and uh

00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.440
I I was actually pretty tired but I

00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.720
really wanted to be there

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:37.559
um

00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.860
and but I didn't want to necessarily get

00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:42.960
anywhere because then I would have to

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:46.799
like think where are we going and all of

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.900
a sudden without my trying and I think

00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:51.240
it has a lot to do with looking through

00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.400
all these videos

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.440
I started to think of our conversation

00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.660
as making a mandala

00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.760
but

00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:06.120
I could just keep putting things and you

00:21:06.120 --> 00:21:09.900
know prompt her to do the same and

00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:13.559
and there's this Elegance in thinking

00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:15.120
that way because then you're not

00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:17.760
thinking about where the thoughts have

00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:20.220
to go from here to there

00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:21.919
it's more

00:21:21.919 --> 00:21:26.280
this Elegance in how her pieces and my

00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:27.539
pieces

00:21:27.539 --> 00:21:30.240
I just noticed that I was thinking

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.380
differently okay this is a huge Insight

00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:38.220
um and and yeah so

00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:42.299
so you what you did is you use something

00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:44.880
that's very actually familiar to our

00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.480
mind a geometry

00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:50.820
to offload the complexity of following

00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:53.179
it at either narratively

00:21:53.179 --> 00:21:56.340
or you don't even have to do the

00:21:56.340 --> 00:21:58.020
systemic thing

00:21:58.020 --> 00:21:59.940
because the systemic as you're trying to

00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:01.980
find all the relationships

00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:05.460
and this is extremely powerful way to

00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:06.440
think

00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.440
because we understand now that the

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.080
geometry is part of the world

00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:15.960
it's not just an abstraction

00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.020
and so this is the foundation of my work

00:22:19.020 --> 00:22:21.720
I don't do systems thinking I don't do

00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.520
complex you know I call release

00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:27.720
complexity through simple protocols

00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.419
um and they can be like triadic things

00:22:30.419 --> 00:22:33.900
are very important and so

00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:37.559
um what what you were able to do now and

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.320
then then you find out something weird

00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:42.840
happens you started doing it because you

00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:45.059
were handicapped you were tired

00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.760
uh it was probably asking too much of

00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:50.940
you and now you see you don't have to

00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:53.940
give up that bandwidth

00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:55.500
you don't you know these service

00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.720
Industries what they call emotional

00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.440
labor you don't have to it doesn't help

00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.860
you to do emotional labor this is a huge

00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:07.580
Insight how even in these very

00:23:07.580 --> 00:23:10.700
humanistic service type relationships

00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:14.100
that these geometries or shapes or

00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:17.460
abstractions or other techniques people

00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.200
use

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:23.220
um are very helpful extremely helpful

00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:26.460
um it's it it the the mind

00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:29.659
it's very familiar for the mind

00:23:29.659 --> 00:23:33.299
so if we can help ourselves you know the

00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.820
mind uh

00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:40.140
uses up a lot of energy it's so anything

00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:42.120
you can help it

00:23:42.120 --> 00:23:44.039
um and this is of course how we how

00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.320
really good teachers teach children they

00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:49.500
teach them with cards and this and that

00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.419
and Building Things

00:23:51.419 --> 00:23:57.120
and by engaging the concepts in like a

00:23:57.120 --> 00:24:00.240
shape or an order or a thing it's it

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.059
offloads it makes our it makes

00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:06.600
or it makes connections it organizes it

00:24:06.600 --> 00:24:09.000
for our mind in the way our mind likes

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.299
to work

00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.120
I I would add one thing too that the

00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:17.100
fact that at some point it wasn't just

00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:21.840
patterning it was uh a mandala

00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:25.860
I give in to the impermanence of the

00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:28.380
Insight I mean that we were just gonna

00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:31.200
blow it off I mean

00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.080
uh it didn't have to

00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.620
then like okay you know this is set we

00:24:37.620 --> 00:24:40.679
figured it out no it was going to be

00:24:40.679 --> 00:24:42.559
whatever

00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:47.940
that movement started to become in

00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:51.120
and the prompts in this this uh this I

00:24:51.120 --> 00:24:54.120
really think is one of the things we are

00:24:54.120 --> 00:24:55.080
so

00:24:55.080 --> 00:24:57.960
needing to

00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.020
um cultivate and practices is the art of

00:25:01.020 --> 00:25:03.000
the prompt I mean not just because of

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.520
llms but

00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:08.059
um that's what's gonna

00:25:08.059 --> 00:25:12.179
make it surprising and surprise is

00:25:12.179 --> 00:25:16.020
always a predictive error yeah

00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:18.539
yeah the mandala this is a mandala that

00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.419
was organized for this context into this

00:25:21.419 --> 00:25:25.080
real time it's not then this symbol that

00:25:25.080 --> 00:25:28.500
then you go and impose on everything but

00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:31.320
everyone is a mandala you know but

00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:33.720
they're not like the same yeah

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.220
so

00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.159
um yeah so this is a little bit of like

00:25:38.159 --> 00:25:40.740
that part in the course content that's

00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:43.620
called my I think it's called

00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:46.559
um is it called mandala mind or metamind

00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.620
and it just shows like how the mind

00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:52.440
likes to organize its principles in

00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.600
different ways and then it explodes and

00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:57.360
then it contracts the you know

00:25:57.360 --> 00:25:59.760
um so it's it's it's it's a natural

00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:01.500
tendency for our mind you know David

00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.480
said you know we every day we don't use

00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.820
abstractions we use abstractions all the

00:26:05.820 --> 00:26:07.440
time but they're simple and they're so

00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.260
familiar like you know

00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:13.260
um when you're putting out dinner plates

00:26:13.260 --> 00:26:15.000
and you make a light nice little

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.480
geometric shape or your you know

00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.419
um everybody uses up these these

00:26:21.419 --> 00:26:23.279
abstractions all the time but the ones

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.900
that are so simple that you can't see

00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:26.880
are not interesting in a course like

00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.760
this but so we try to get to ones that

00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:32.279
are we don't you know we can feel the

00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.159
muscle needing to move but

00:26:35.159 --> 00:26:36.360
um

00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:39.120
yeah so

00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:42.140
um uh

00:26:45.419 --> 00:26:47.460
that's a very yeah that's a really big

00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.980
Insight that um

00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.580
Pete when you go like like

00:26:53.580 --> 00:26:57.480
um oh my God you know one of the things

00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.580
that I've always really liked to do I

00:26:59.580 --> 00:27:01.320
haven't done it in years and my

00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:04.380
boyfriend in high school was like to

00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:07.200
dress really sharp for like going out to

00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.240
dinner and stuff

00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.940
and I always used to like you go to the

00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:14.520
men's store and you and you'd pick out a

00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:16.440
suit and a shirt and then if you try to

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.900
match it with a tie and there's all

00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:21.720
these different colors and designs and

00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:22.860
you're trying to get something that's

00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:25.919
not conventional but doesn't like all

00:27:25.919 --> 00:27:28.559
these things are like you know

00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.779
um the way we like to work with

00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.120
abstractions

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:35.240
um

00:27:39.260 --> 00:27:43.100
geometry shapes yeah

00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:47.279
that people talk about in do I design

00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.260
for example or anything it's all

00:27:49.260 --> 00:27:50.820
abstractions like this kind of

00:27:50.820 --> 00:27:53.840
abstractions right

00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.940
yeah

00:27:56.220 --> 00:28:00.000
did you see I I wrote a comment and put

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.340
the Christopher Alexander

00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:05.100
speech yeah I saw it yeah actually yeah

00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:09.120
yeah actually I have seen it but but not

00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:11.700
fully so I'm going to rewatch it yeah I

00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:12.960
just wanted you know it was there

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.580
because I don't yeah I don't know if you

00:28:14.580 --> 00:28:17.720
get notifications but

00:28:20.340 --> 00:28:22.500
Bonnie there's something

00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:23.580
um

00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:24.960
you know I've been kind of walking

00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.320
around in that question of can you see

00:28:28.320 --> 00:28:30.360
what isn't there

00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:33.299
or is there I'm not there at the same

00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:36.179
time is there not there at the same time

00:28:36.179 --> 00:28:38.400
and

00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.679
I don't know if this has to do with

00:28:40.679 --> 00:28:43.320
abstraction it's just sort of a swirl in

00:28:43.320 --> 00:28:46.260
my mind but

00:28:46.260 --> 00:28:49.799
rod and I took a a class on primitive

00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:52.500
pigment paint making

00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.860
where we were grinding up like malachite

00:28:55.860 --> 00:28:59.640
to make colors and adding cherry tree

00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:04.620
gum and using ocher from you know

00:29:04.620 --> 00:29:06.539
Earth and

00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:10.020
after we took that class I

00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:15.059
cannot look at color in the same way

00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:17.940
I see things

00:29:17.940 --> 00:29:19.679
like the

00:29:19.679 --> 00:29:24.779
the colors that we have that are um

00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:27.240
do not come from nature look very

00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.700
different to me than the colors

00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:31.860
that came from nature that we were

00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:33.299
painting with

00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:34.740
um

00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:38.399
and somehow all of that is giving me the

00:29:38.399 --> 00:29:41.100
experience of Mind back in the body and

00:29:41.100 --> 00:29:44.000
body back in nature but at a

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.240
very different level

00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.600
and being you know driving home from

00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:54.539
that looking at the different colors of

00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:56.940
green the different it was just like a

00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:58.100
whole

00:29:58.100 --> 00:30:03.720
opening not just visually but bodily

00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.860
and there's something like that's seeing

00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:09.600
things that have always been there that

00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:11.159
I just haven't

00:30:11.159 --> 00:30:16.500
seen or been connected to

00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:18.120
yeah I think this is a complex

00:30:18.120 --> 00:30:19.700
experience

00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:22.140
[Music]

00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:23.880
one is

00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.240
um the so I would say that it's at the

00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:28.559
intersection of where I said that

00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.260
abstractions is like a perception

00:30:31.260 --> 00:30:34.140
so it's at the intersection where it's

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:36.480
it's I would say it's perception but

00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.039
it's perception it also as participation

00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:43.559
but we talked about abstraction as being

00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.039
an or your mind it's the mind as an

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.559
organ of perception

00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.559
um and we talked about people with these

00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.500
you know these phenoms that that really

00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:59.779
have borne they see math they don't

00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:03.120
use cognitive apparatus or some of these

00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:06.000
ways we deconstructed the tests

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.520
they don't need to use coarse grain

00:31:08.520 --> 00:31:09.779
language

00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:15.179
they see it it's a it's a so so

00:31:15.179 --> 00:31:16.260
um

00:31:16.260 --> 00:31:18.679
yeah so

00:31:18.679 --> 00:31:22.919
so that that there's there's

00:31:22.919 --> 00:31:25.200
abstractions that are native to us that

00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.360
just we would feel like their

00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:29.460
perceptions

00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.299
because there's no cognitive

00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:35.399
demand uh

00:31:35.399 --> 00:31:37.799
and then the part about the difference

00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.980
that making the colors is is that notion

00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:42.779
that perception

00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.480
requires adequate participation and the

00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.000
more you participate the more you open

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.240
new organs of perception so

00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.000
um I would say touches on on all on all

00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.679
of those

00:31:55.679 --> 00:31:57.679
um

00:31:58.919 --> 00:32:00.720
yeah

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.620
you're reminding me of um how ramen our

00:32:04.620 --> 00:32:07.140
vs ramanujan used to say that he could

00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:09.960
taste the equations like they were

00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.380
nectar yeah

00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:15.539
that it was

00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:18.120
from a completely other source it didn't

00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:20.880
have anything to do with show your work

00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:21.960
like

00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:23.880
how did you get here

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:26.039
it's like if I ask you how how do you

00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.740
know two one two equals four

00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:32.460
the the right the correct word is I can

00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:34.740
see it I can see that to you know you

00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:36.899
say I can just see two and two equals

00:32:36.899 --> 00:32:39.960
four so this is correct you know I

00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.600
worked it out you know

00:32:42.600 --> 00:32:46.679
um and and so so now we're gonna go on

00:32:46.679 --> 00:32:48.059
to

00:32:48.059 --> 00:32:51.419
um maybe something a little game that I

00:32:51.419 --> 00:32:53.520
created

00:32:53.520 --> 00:32:57.299
um that maybe uh

00:32:57.299 --> 00:32:59.580
is in this direction that we've been

00:32:59.580 --> 00:33:02.279
taking it I'm not I'm not sure we'll use

00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:04.500
the same groups and what I need you to

00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:08.039
do is open this Google doc

00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:12.899
now group what uh let's see uh

00:33:12.899 --> 00:33:16.320
it'll take whoops

00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:17.340
sorry

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:19.260
there's a lot of swearing here I think

00:33:19.260 --> 00:33:23.480
Susan started this quite a while ago

00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:29.940
now I know it's me okay so I probably

00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:31.740
did

00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:34.860
you that should take you you could that

00:33:34.860 --> 00:33:36.480
should take you to a page where you can

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.500
see three copies

00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.740
can you see three copies

00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:49.320
yeah so

00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:51.539
um Aaron will go in who only had two

00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:55.200
people David and Magdalena right okay so

00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.899
Aaron I'll put you into that so David's

00:33:57.899 --> 00:34:01.679
group is going to use copy number one

00:34:01.679 --> 00:34:05.100
and Susan Sam and Anna are going to use

00:34:05.100 --> 00:34:07.919
oh there's three groups right

00:34:07.919 --> 00:34:10.020
are there three groups okay so David's

00:34:10.020 --> 00:34:12.480
group can use number one Sam's group's

00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.280
gonna use number two and who's the third

00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:17.099
group Katie Katie's group is going to

00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:19.320
use number three okay

00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.899
but where it's Googled so make sure you

00:34:21.899 --> 00:34:24.659
can all open them now so your whole

00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:26.700
group will be on the same document you

00:34:26.700 --> 00:34:28.320
don't have to share screens did you get

00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.919
it Susan

00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:35.580
relying on Samuel for open up when we're

00:34:35.580 --> 00:34:37.619
on our group

00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:41.520
okay can I do that right last time yes

00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:44.220
okay thank you so everybody knows which

00:34:44.220 --> 00:34:45.720
one document they're going to share

00:34:45.720 --> 00:34:48.480
they're going to be on

00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.040
okay now the uh so let me share my

00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:54.780
screen

00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:58.800
um and I'll explain this to you does it

00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.700
look exciting already

00:35:04.020 --> 00:35:07.920
okay so what they are are slides

00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:11.460
no the purpose of this experiment you're

00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:14.339
gonna do what I'm you're gonna do the

00:35:14.339 --> 00:35:17.700
the experiment but the purpose is when

00:35:17.700 --> 00:35:21.060
we come back what we want to know is

00:35:21.060 --> 00:35:25.260
what the hell do are we talking about

00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:27.900
so we have three abstractions time

00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:30.660
distance and speed right

00:35:30.660 --> 00:35:31.920
okay

00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.119
so what is speed we know that speed is

00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:37.280
distance

00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.420
divided by time

00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:41.940
does everybody understand that speed is

00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:43.740
distance over time

00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:47.160
so this is like a kid you know the kid's

00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:49.440
asking why so if I say Mommy what is

00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.900
speed you say it's distance over time

00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:56.400
and then I say what is distance

00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.320
well you can say well it's speed times

00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.900
time and then if I say what is time then

00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:02.940
you can say time is speed divided by

00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.280
distance that's just doing the math

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.339
I want us to be able to Define what is

00:36:08.339 --> 00:36:11.400
distance and what is time without using

00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.420
the other two terms

00:36:15.660 --> 00:36:18.060
okay now that's what we're going to talk

00:36:18.060 --> 00:36:20.339
about when you get back what I want you

00:36:20.339 --> 00:36:23.359
to do is play with this is for example

00:36:23.359 --> 00:36:27.839
this is top time and this is how much

00:36:27.839 --> 00:36:29.880
distance you've gone over time right

00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.720
everybody understands these things

00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:36.119
so what is the difference between a

00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.099
speed that looks like this

00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:42.000
in this feed that looks like that

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.540
that's what you're going to talk about

00:36:45.540 --> 00:36:47.460
then we're going to go to this one and

00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:51.119
you see we have speed over time so these

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.040
has to be distance

00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:54.720
and the question is what's the

00:36:54.720 --> 00:36:56.700
difference between distance one that

00:36:56.700 --> 00:36:58.980
goes like that and distance two that

00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:01.760
goes like that

00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.260
got it

00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:06.900
and the third one is it just the third

00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.480
version We you could only we have three

00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:11.339
variables we're doing it looking at it

00:37:11.339 --> 00:37:13.800
three times so now we have speed as it

00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.079
relates to distance and time

00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:19.079
this is what's this kind of time and

00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.660
what these are kind of time now they

00:37:21.660 --> 00:37:24.420
some of these will be imaginary

00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:26.700
situations

00:37:26.700 --> 00:37:29.400
like a cartoon that's not actually what

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.619
would happen in real life so that's okay

00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:34.260
okay

00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:38.220
um so it's not something like well

00:37:38.220 --> 00:37:40.320
like I drove to work the other day and

00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.079
this is what happened you just it might

00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:44.220
have to you might have to create

00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:48.920
imaginary scenario like a cartoon

00:37:50.220 --> 00:37:51.960
huh

00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.660
all right

00:37:54.660 --> 00:37:57.000
once you get talking I think you'll get

00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.099
you'll get squawking

00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:01.640
whatever that means

00:38:01.640 --> 00:38:04.380
so we'll go over

00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:06.260
we'll go for

00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:09.180
uh yeah we're kind of late

00:38:09.180 --> 00:38:11.640
um 5 10 15. we're gonna go for 20. we

00:38:11.640 --> 00:38:13.440
won't have a lot of room at the end to

00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:17.940
talk but I think uh having fun is uh

00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:21.180
more important so about 20 minutes uh

00:38:21.180 --> 00:38:25.859
let's see we have uh

00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.040
um

00:38:28.140 --> 00:38:31.020
oh okay so I I

00:38:31.020 --> 00:38:34.680
um Aaron I I'll put you in in a second

00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:38.060
so 20 minutes

00:38:45.540 --> 00:38:49.820
uh uh there you go

00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:06.720
foreign

00:39:21.740 --> 00:39:25.140
but what I'm going to do is I think I'm

00:39:25.140 --> 00:39:28.020
gonna put you I can make two groups of

00:39:28.020 --> 00:39:29.520
four

00:39:29.520 --> 00:39:31.859
instead instead of just having you two

00:39:31.859 --> 00:39:33.420
by yourself

00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:35.280
okay because I thought it was gonna all

00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.160
be all three so I'll I'll send you to a

00:39:38.160 --> 00:39:39.480
group and then I'll send him to the

00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.400
other group okay

00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.640
perfect if he can get back in I'll move

00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:46.740
you to

00:39:46.740 --> 00:39:50.540
move into okay have fun

00:39:56.339 --> 00:39:59.540
hi Dave are you there

00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:17.839
foreign

00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:35.359
so what were some of the things that

00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:39.079
you might have discovered

00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.880
nothing

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.380
should we go through them I could bring

00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:51.900
them up on my screen

00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:54.260
all right

00:40:54.780 --> 00:40:57.000
um so I've added something but just

00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.880
don't look at them yet all right so in

00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:02.099
this one what's happening

00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:03.240
um

00:41:03.240 --> 00:41:07.460
here what's happening with speed one

00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:11.339
does anybody have any idea you can all

00:41:11.339 --> 00:41:13.940
unmute yourself

00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.140
feed one is normal right because the

00:41:19.140 --> 00:41:21.599
longer you're going faster and faster

00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.280
for a longer and longer time and

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.320
distance is growing right

00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:27.180
does that make sense to everyone

00:41:27.180 --> 00:41:29.820
speed one is just normal if the speed

00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:31.920
keeps increasing over time the distance

00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.800
will crease over time and if that

00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.720
increase in speed is constant the

00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:38.700
increase across distance and time will

00:41:38.700 --> 00:41:40.800
be constant it's not a constant speed

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.680
it's a constantly increasing speed

00:41:43.680 --> 00:41:48.180
okay so this is which which has a limit

00:41:48.180 --> 00:41:51.140
I mean because

00:41:51.140 --> 00:41:54.300
she's gonna go spoil

00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:56.820
the metaphysics in this because she

00:41:56.820 --> 00:41:59.839
already sees it

00:42:00.180 --> 00:42:03.720
before I put this arrow in there yeah I

00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:06.180
mean we we did we had that discussion

00:42:06.180 --> 00:42:11.160
sorry no you see how smart you are you

00:42:11.160 --> 00:42:16.099
see how smart you are today today

00:42:16.099 --> 00:42:20.280
no because no one's ever showed you

00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.280
mere mortals that you can think about

00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.760
the primary conundrum inside of all of

00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.800
time space physics

00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:29.940
okay

00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:31.440
so

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.440
I'll go slower but you they already see

00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:35.520
what's coming

00:42:35.520 --> 00:42:38.460
okay so we all understand the blue line

00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:40.260
right

00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:43.440
so what's happening here is that the

00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.119
speed is constant

00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.400
but you're not covering any more

00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:49.020
distance and you get to a certain level

00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:51.180
and you're going the same speed so be

00:42:51.180 --> 00:42:53.520
like you're just running and put you get

00:42:53.520 --> 00:42:55.440
to a certain distance all of a sudden

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.839
you leap there and you're running in

00:42:57.839 --> 00:43:00.599
place it doesn't even make sense like a

00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.960
cartoon of somebody's in a car and he

00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:05.880
sees that he's growing up 40 miles an

00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:07.800
hour no acceleration and the speed is

00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.839
constant but maybe then you see there's

00:43:09.839 --> 00:43:12.780
a big gaffling Iron behind him so he's

00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:15.300
making no distance right does that make

00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:16.260
sense

00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:18.900
okay so like I said you have to figure

00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:22.380
out like some cartoon version of it so

00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:24.780
it's a it's a consistent speed 40 miles

00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:26.520
an hour and this one you're going 40 and

00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:29.819
then 50 then 60 then 70 and 80. but the

00:43:29.819 --> 00:43:32.400
funny thing is

00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:33.720
oh sorry

00:43:33.720 --> 00:43:36.839
this one but the funny thing is you're

00:43:36.839 --> 00:43:39.060
not over time you're not going any

00:43:39.060 --> 00:43:41.760
further so it's like you're looking at

00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.619
your car and you're going 50 miles an

00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:44.460
hour

00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:47.700
uh but you're not moving so you can

00:43:47.700 --> 00:43:50.880
imagine having a big grappling iron uh

00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.000
uh wire that you know what I'm saying

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.740
behind your car in a cartoon

00:43:55.740 --> 00:43:58.440
that's just keeping you in place okay so

00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:00.839
that's what's happening

00:44:00.839 --> 00:44:02.700
all right can we move on does everyone

00:44:02.700 --> 00:44:05.220
get that

00:44:05.220 --> 00:44:08.280
um I'm picturing like revving revving an

00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.900
engine in a car while having the brakes

00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:12.900
on exactly that's the engine is going

00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:15.599
that distance that speed but I'm not

00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.760
covering anything and the speedometer

00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:20.280
was was still measuring that you're

00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.460
going fast yeah

00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:26.819
which is like if it was measuring the no

00:44:26.819 --> 00:44:28.140
it would be like

00:44:28.140 --> 00:44:30.839
if the speedometer measures your tire

00:44:30.839 --> 00:44:32.640
rotation you would have your tire

00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:35.940
rotation on something that was going you

00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:38.520
know something like that sure some

00:44:38.520 --> 00:44:40.560
treadmill it's like a treadmill it can

00:44:40.560 --> 00:44:43.020
say you're going two miles an hour and

00:44:43.020 --> 00:44:45.720
you're not getting anywhere right okay

00:44:45.720 --> 00:44:47.880
yeah so that's what this one says

00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:49.740
Magdalena who was in your group that

00:44:49.740 --> 00:44:52.940
started to get it

00:44:56.640 --> 00:45:00.660
hey no I mean I I think

00:45:00.660 --> 00:45:03.359
um I brought up the sort of the limit

00:45:03.359 --> 00:45:05.940
but conversation

00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:08.460
your our conversation is so beautifully

00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:13.640
entangled I you know yeah there's yeah

00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:15.119
okay

00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.339
so on the second one

00:45:17.339 --> 00:45:20.160
we we have something interesting so we

00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:23.040
have the as the speed goes up so you're

00:45:23.040 --> 00:45:25.380
going faster and faster and time goes by

00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:27.599
your distance the distance you're

00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.440
covering increases per unit of time

00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:33.420
that makes sense but what's Happening

00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:35.720
Here

00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.540
is

00:45:39.859 --> 00:45:44.040
your your distance is

00:45:44.040 --> 00:45:46.800
increasing

00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:49.319
with time but

00:45:49.319 --> 00:45:51.480
this one's hard to understand this one

00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:52.560
is

00:45:52.560 --> 00:45:56.480
your distance is

00:45:57.660 --> 00:45:59.700
you're not staying in place but the

00:45:59.700 --> 00:46:01.319
distance You cover

00:46:01.319 --> 00:46:03.599
is the same amount you're slowing down

00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.640
relative to you're speeding up but

00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:07.619
you're not covering more distance as you

00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:10.099
speed up

00:46:12.060 --> 00:46:15.780
and this one is very weird this one is

00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:18.720
yours your speed uh you're speeding up

00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:21.599
you're accelerating and

00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:25.440
um and the and the distance is going but

00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.920
time is is not passing

00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.359
time is not passing

00:46:32.819 --> 00:46:37.020
so this basically means that

00:46:37.020 --> 00:46:39.720
um the faster you go the slower time is

00:46:39.720 --> 00:46:42.660
it so if we look at this it means the

00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:43.980
faster you go

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:47.099
the slower the time goes

00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:49.740
which is classic what einsteinian

00:46:49.740 --> 00:46:51.540
relativity

00:46:51.540 --> 00:46:55.560
this one basically means that the faster

00:46:55.560 --> 00:46:57.960
you go there's a limit

00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.480
um and space starts to curve the

00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:01.260
distance

00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:04.079
uh so so you're not getting any further

00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:07.260
because you're like around space is

00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:09.359
curved so you keep after going around

00:47:09.359 --> 00:47:12.540
and around and around just to get an

00:47:12.540 --> 00:47:14.460
inch away

00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:17.220
and this one is the limit of the

00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:20.040
velocity velocity of speed

00:47:20.040 --> 00:47:23.099
so this is what I actually was trying to

00:47:23.099 --> 00:47:25.920
write my PhD thesis in the philosophy of

00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.260
science on that there was something

00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:30.839
about the epistemic construction of the

00:47:30.839 --> 00:47:33.720
relationship between speed distance and

00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:34.560
time

00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:37.319
that necessitated this that was a

00:47:37.319 --> 00:47:40.520
constraint that necessitated this

00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:43.040
this

00:47:43.040 --> 00:47:47.040
experimental result

00:47:49.859 --> 00:47:52.859
there's something and you came up with

00:47:52.859 --> 00:47:55.079
that all by yourself

00:47:55.079 --> 00:48:00.079
yeah but I never finished my thesis

00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:06.420
or or anything to help me with it that's

00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:09.960
amazing no

00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:10.920
um

00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.700
so

00:48:13.859 --> 00:48:15.839
anyways

00:48:15.839 --> 00:48:18.180
um there's more to talk about with this

00:48:18.180 --> 00:48:19.980
little game maybe we could do it again

00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:21.180
but

00:48:21.180 --> 00:48:23.520
um yeah it's interesting that you

00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:27.000
started to see you started to into it

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.819
like there's something weird like if

00:48:29.819 --> 00:48:31.980
these things are all relative to each

00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:33.240
other

00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:36.380
then they act as Governors on each other

00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:41.700
by necessity it's just like um uh V

00:48:41.700 --> 00:48:44.880
equals IR Vault equals impedance over

00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.599
resistance right so if one goes up the

00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.700
other two have to go it's so when you

00:48:50.700 --> 00:48:53.400
have a perfect equation they have to act

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:55.260
as Governors on each other

00:48:55.260 --> 00:49:00.440
and so that was my basic uh suspicion

00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:04.640
Xander could you tell the story of of

00:49:04.640 --> 00:49:07.800
what you came up with because I would

00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.619
like Bonnie to comment you know on the

00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:13.140
water thing

00:49:13.140 --> 00:49:16.020
when we got to the last one Bonnie there

00:49:16.020 --> 00:49:17.099
was

00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.460
we were kind of struggling around with

00:49:20.460 --> 00:49:21.300
um

00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:25.680
time and you know movement and all of

00:49:25.680 --> 00:49:27.540
that and all I could

00:49:27.540 --> 00:49:31.140
sort of see was water

00:49:31.140 --> 00:49:34.920
a stream a rock and a leaf

00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.260
on the surface

00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:39.359
so

00:49:39.359 --> 00:49:43.859
the and we sort of tried on the feel the

00:49:43.859 --> 00:49:48.060
felt sense of each of those elements

00:49:48.060 --> 00:49:51.060
to try to Grapple with what that

00:49:51.060 --> 00:49:53.400
equation was trying to say so that's

00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.660
beautiful like The Rock was

00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:03.240
yeah there's something really beaut

00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:05.280
really interesting about this

00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:07.319
relationship this conversation is

00:50:07.319 --> 00:50:09.180
probably horribly naive I don't know

00:50:09.180 --> 00:50:11.940
anything else about it but

00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:12.560
um

00:50:12.560 --> 00:50:17.760
uh it's it's very interesting that time

00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.099
you CA you know when you describe time

00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:22.380
time always depends on upon a movement a

00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:24.000
movement of the clock the movement of

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:26.400
the seasons the movement of the atomic

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.859
particles that

00:50:28.859 --> 00:50:31.380
um click click click the relate you know

00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:33.060
this is the atomic time the most

00:50:33.060 --> 00:50:35.819
sophisticated timer that it releases a

00:50:35.819 --> 00:50:38.760
electron or something like that

00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:41.640
um so time and movement

00:50:41.640 --> 00:50:45.180
movement implies distance this movement

00:50:45.180 --> 00:50:49.680
implies a speed they're all somehow just

00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:51.180
the same thing

00:50:51.180 --> 00:50:54.200
they're they're they're they're

00:50:54.200 --> 00:50:57.660
I I my paper my thesis was that it was

00:50:57.660 --> 00:50:59.880
perspectival that you look at it this

00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:01.500
way you see time you look at it this way

00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:03.059
you see distance you look at this way

00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:04.559
you see speed

00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:08.160
and distance is space you know and I

00:51:08.160 --> 00:51:09.960
thought this was fascinating it

00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:11.880
preoccupied me

00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:13.200
to know and

00:51:13.200 --> 00:51:15.960
no end for a very long time and it's

00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.760
like you know the unfinished Symphony

00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:20.940
it's to this day it's still uh I teach

00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:22.980
it I always taught it to my Master's

00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:25.140
course just to give people like the

00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:28.400
Willies foreign

00:51:28.940 --> 00:51:31.559
but it also

00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:34.440
it feels like they have to be relation

00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:38.300
wow that's called in general relatives

00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:42.079
and it's it's also in

00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:46.020
the limitations of how to that we the

00:51:46.020 --> 00:51:49.079
concepts themselves self-defying

00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.480
so there's something weird going on for

00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:55.319
me in this uh in this

00:51:55.319 --> 00:51:58.680
and speaking of time in your dog's

00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:00.480
barking I don't know if you know this

00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.359
that Freud's dog barked at the end of

00:52:03.359 --> 00:52:04.819
the session too

00:52:04.819 --> 00:52:07.740
for them time is not relative

00:52:07.740 --> 00:52:10.460
yeah

00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:14.640
that's it

00:52:14.640 --> 00:52:17.040
thank you my friends I'm so glad you

00:52:17.040 --> 00:52:19.880
enjoyed this episode

00:52:20.520 --> 00:52:23.880
um and uh yeah have a good day

00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:28.460
that was awesome bunny ciao thank you



## Cohort 4

00:00:01.940 --> 00:00:05.880
I think we'll have some lingerers

00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:08.099
we've probably got people who want to

00:00:08.099 --> 00:00:10.080
come but they're afraid they don't know

00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.179
how much more they can like

00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:15.000
take up this module

00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:18.660
hi Xavier we're a bunch of humanists

00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:22.859
it's like Psychonauts trying to uh

00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:25.740
deal with abstract thinking so

00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:27.300
um

00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:30.060
I think I will start since we are

00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:32.940
probably waiting for a few people

00:00:32.940 --> 00:00:35.340
um to share my screen and just go over

00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:37.559
the course content again you know just

00:00:37.559 --> 00:00:39.420
kind of as a visual we're not going to

00:00:39.420 --> 00:00:41.760
go into the whole thing

00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:42.540
um

00:00:42.540 --> 00:00:45.660
I did write it but you know I need a

00:00:45.660 --> 00:00:48.200
refresher

00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:50.760
um and then you know anything that

00:00:50.760 --> 00:00:55.140
stands out for you uh that you see this

00:00:55.140 --> 00:01:00.180
time or that that kind of ignites

00:01:00.180 --> 00:01:04.100
um some reflection just uh go ahead and

00:01:04.100 --> 00:01:07.680
share it after we're done looking at

00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.360
this and waiting for people to come in

00:01:11.360 --> 00:01:15.420
let me just hide this okay so we started

00:01:15.420 --> 00:01:18.900
off with this little

00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:20.479
uh

00:01:20.479 --> 00:01:24.180
quote from uh the book the book novel

00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:27.360
Ada or arter by Vladimir Nabokov has

00:01:27.360 --> 00:01:29.640
anyone read this anybody ever read this

00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.340
if people don't read him anymore

00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:35.100
um but it just shows of ADA had this

00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:37.740
little kind of metaphysics worked out

00:01:37.740 --> 00:01:40.500
um in her mind right uh certain things

00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:42.960
were classified as real things and then

00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:45.180
there were fogs fevers and toothaches

00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:48.540
and it just shows kind of gives a kind

00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:52.920
of nice uh story about a child who's

00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:55.799
precocious in this case she's a very

00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.299
precocious child and how she's takes her

00:02:00.299 --> 00:02:02.220
experience and makes kind of

00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:03.600
abstractions

00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:05.540
then we looked at

00:02:05.540 --> 00:02:08.459
abstractions as shapes

00:02:08.459 --> 00:02:12.120
but not as geometric shapes like this

00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:14.340
book is a rectangle but as you know

00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:18.120
platonic shapes as things shapes that

00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.280
were there and not there at the same

00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:21.780
time

00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:24.660
um so like the Fibonacci circled the

00:02:24.660 --> 00:02:28.400
Fibonacci sequence is an abstract

00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.739
mathematical model of a shape that we

00:02:31.739 --> 00:02:34.260
can see in nature right so this notion

00:02:34.260 --> 00:02:36.599
that there is these shapes that are

00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.980
there are not there at the same time and

00:02:39.980 --> 00:02:42.959
I you know starting off slow trying to

00:02:42.959 --> 00:02:46.260
give you uh an example by these drawings

00:02:46.260 --> 00:02:48.480
where

00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:50.700
um it follows simple rules and then you

00:02:50.700 --> 00:02:54.599
get these complex shapes and when you

00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:57.720
look at this one for example you can

00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:00.599
start to Intuit like for example that

00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.540
these shapes here are part of this

00:03:03.540 --> 00:03:05.640
circle but they're part of something

00:03:05.640 --> 00:03:07.379
else that was drawn they're the

00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:09.720
intersection of shapes that you no

00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:12.480
longer can see and sometimes this is

00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:15.300
what math is trying to do is trying to

00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:17.120
get

00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.180
relationships that are actually based on

00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:23.280
shapes that are there but not there at

00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:25.140
the same time so we use that

00:03:25.140 --> 00:03:26.700
metaphorically

00:03:26.700 --> 00:03:30.000
as abstracting patterns from the

00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.400
appearances

00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:34.200
and we also

00:03:34.200 --> 00:03:37.080
um talked about how a lot of times

00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:38.840
complex

00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:43.560
patterns in nature that uh we get this

00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:45.959
hint that there's a unifying pattern

00:03:45.959 --> 00:03:48.900
happening that actually based on uh

00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.360
simple rules that iterate so these are

00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.459
the simple rules for in doing this kind

00:03:53.459 --> 00:03:55.680
of drawing

00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:00.659
then we looked at this uh video as a

00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:04.799
more complex example of that it shows

00:04:04.799 --> 00:04:07.620
that all the trigonomic functions

00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:09.420
are

00:04:09.420 --> 00:04:13.439
um our versions of a line traveling

00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.019
along a circle

00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:21.660
um and so this equation

00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:26.160
is relating to these shapes that are not

00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.639
there but the equations are useful in

00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.400
nature and so like those equations when

00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:34.800
they pertain to Nature it's like the

00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.440
shape or this movement or this

00:04:37.440 --> 00:04:39.960
relationship of shapes is there and not

00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:42.479
there at the same time so we were using

00:04:42.479 --> 00:04:46.460
this phrase to think about

00:04:46.460 --> 00:04:49.740
math and peer abstractions

00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:55.680
um this one shows you all kinds of uh

00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:59.120
the geometry that's behind a lot of math

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.680
mathematics I'm not going to go into

00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.100
this one and this one shows that there

00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:09.300
are geometric relations that describe

00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:12.360
the Fibonacci Circle

00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:13.680
um

00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.520
and you could also describe them as the

00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:19.500
shapes so if you're looking at something

00:05:19.500 --> 00:05:22.160
that looks like a Fibonacci relationship

00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:24.419
you can ask yourselves are there

00:05:24.419 --> 00:05:26.820
morphogenetic spaces that act like

00:05:26.820 --> 00:05:29.699
nested circles at scale

00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:33.720
so you can use the notion of shape to

00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:36.600
work with the golden ratio for example

00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:39.539
so these when you look at a Shell you

00:05:39.539 --> 00:05:42.860
only see this but are there

00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:46.199
morphogenetic rules that are based upon

00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.800
circles so the circles are not there and

00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.300
they're at the same time so just this

00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:53.940
word we kept on using to give you a

00:05:53.940 --> 00:05:56.940
sense of what you're abstracting from or

00:05:56.940 --> 00:05:58.440
with

00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:00.780
then you could go and click on this

00:06:00.780 --> 00:06:03.060
guy's work he does all these things he

00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:04.860
Ponders

00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:05.460
um

00:06:05.460 --> 00:06:08.580
and okay so that was one whole thing

00:06:08.580 --> 00:06:10.500
shapes math

00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:12.780
and uh things that are there are not

00:06:12.780 --> 00:06:14.699
there at the same time

00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:17.340
then we looked at a different way of

00:06:17.340 --> 00:06:20.340
abstracting and that is uh Christopher

00:06:20.340 --> 00:06:25.259
Alexander who is an architect and

00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:31.160
um and tried to see in buildings and

00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:35.400
Gardens and neighborhoods and things

00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:36.979
like chairs

00:06:36.979 --> 00:06:40.860
and Furniture he said he thought well

00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:43.560
what makes us feel more alive he tried

00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.220
to abstract from

00:06:46.220 --> 00:06:49.020
observing these things

00:06:49.020 --> 00:06:51.120
um in a continuous fashion a pattern

00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:54.120
language so pattern languages are kind

00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:57.419
of abstractions and then I just show you

00:06:57.419 --> 00:06:59.639
how he gets really thick into the

00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:01.800
metaphysical weeds

00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.600
um

00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.199
by

00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:06.900
um doing this now what's interesting is

00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:10.560
there's this guy who recently wrote this

00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:12.120
thing called a pattern language

00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.940
regenerative AI

00:07:14.940 --> 00:07:17.580
um and it talks about chat GPT and large

00:07:17.580 --> 00:07:20.400
language models in the language of

00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:23.639
Christopher Alexander uh he was recently

00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.060
on the Jim rot show if you want to see

00:07:27.060 --> 00:07:27.840
that

00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:30.060
okay then we talked about music math

00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:32.639
there's this interesting phenomenon

00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.720
where mathematicians uh see music in

00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.539
math and

00:07:38.539 --> 00:07:41.699
musicians see math in music and it's

00:07:41.699 --> 00:07:43.860
quite often the case

00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:47.880
um this is quite uh common uh for

00:07:47.880 --> 00:07:50.340
mathematicians to be musicians and vice

00:07:50.340 --> 00:07:51.660
versa

00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:54.900
and I thought of an example for this

00:07:54.900 --> 00:07:57.300
today which is very simplistic because

00:07:57.300 --> 00:08:00.180
we need simplistic examples here is

00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:04.020
let's say I looked at the

00:08:04.020 --> 00:08:07.039
the counting numbers from 1 to Infinity

00:08:07.039 --> 00:08:09.960
right so I see one two three four and

00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:12.539
then I think oh my God

00:08:12.539 --> 00:08:14.639
there's an even number every other

00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:16.319
number is even

00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.780
right now of course this is such a

00:08:18.780 --> 00:08:20.639
simple pattern that it doesn't blow

00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.819
anyone's mind right so obvious to us

00:08:23.819 --> 00:08:26.039
that of course every other number is

00:08:26.039 --> 00:08:29.520
even right but mathematicians will

00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:32.760
generate these these huge sequences of

00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:35.399
primes or if you saw that video that I

00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:37.560
put in the commentary about the Didact

00:08:37.560 --> 00:08:41.039
the periodic numbers

00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:42.899
what they're seeing are these

00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:46.260
interesting patterns in these large

00:08:46.260 --> 00:08:48.420
number Fields right it's not interesting

00:08:48.420 --> 00:08:50.459
persons say oh my God there's an even

00:08:50.459 --> 00:08:52.860
number every other number is even but

00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:55.680
this is the same thing they're doing at

00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:59.040
a much more sophisticated uh stage

00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:00.959
this is someone that says well the

00:09:00.959 --> 00:09:05.040
Fibonacci Square uh sequence what if I

00:09:05.040 --> 00:09:08.580
was you know translate it into music

00:09:08.580 --> 00:09:10.860
what would it sound like so there's a

00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:13.740
there's a lot of this correlating music

00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:17.940
and now this one correlates the uh the

00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:18.800
uh

00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:21.420
the chords

00:09:21.420 --> 00:09:24.000
um the different fifths and sevens and

00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.459
minor and major chords

00:09:26.459 --> 00:09:28.700
um into a geometry

00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:32.160
and then we move on to how vibration

00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:34.560
itself creates shapes at different

00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:37.320
frequencies so just noticing this

00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:39.660
relationship and we can abstract that to

00:09:39.660 --> 00:09:42.300
the frequency and how it correlates to

00:09:42.300 --> 00:09:44.040
the shape

00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:44.700
um

00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.200
and that that took that's that section

00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.720
um which was about

00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.160
um music math

00:09:53.160 --> 00:09:55.320
then we get into

00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.500
um another field that is extremely

00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:01.800
fascinating and that is meta mathematics

00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:04.920
and we talked about how

00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:08.220
people could so there's this so far what

00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:09.899
we've talked about is people observing

00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:11.940
something in the world and abstracting

00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:13.680
patterns from it

00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:16.740
could be shapes that are not on are not

00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:19.500
there and then abstracting the math from

00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:21.480
the shapes that are kind of there and

00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:23.519
not there at the same time

00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.580
now we said that some of this kind of

00:10:26.580 --> 00:10:29.880
abstraction animals can do because for

00:10:29.880 --> 00:10:33.000
example the dance of the honeybee that

00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.339
the honeybee comes back to the hive to

00:10:35.339 --> 00:10:39.180
communicate where the food source is and

00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:43.920
this information includes directionality

00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:46.019
um relative to the Sun so directionality

00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:50.279
that changes over time and distance and

00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.579
so this is a kind of abstraction and so

00:10:53.579 --> 00:10:55.800
other animals can do this but what

00:10:55.800 --> 00:10:58.200
humans can do is then they can take the

00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.820
math they've extracted from a real world

00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:04.200
environment and play with it

00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:06.899
theoretically and they can say well what

00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:09.540
if there were 12 dimensions and not five

00:11:09.540 --> 00:11:13.260
to let me make a 12 dimensional uh

00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:15.480
triangle what would its properties be

00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.160
and then play with it and have to

00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:19.680
develop new math to do that

00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:22.260
and it turns out that those new math

00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:25.200
systems that are created find use in the

00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.440
real world so this is really fascinating

00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.440
how we can extrapolate the abstraction

00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:33.980
work with it in hypothetical

00:11:33.980 --> 00:11:37.800
environments and then we find use for

00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:40.380
those mathemat mathematics

00:11:40.380 --> 00:11:42.240
that have been developed theoretically

00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.180
in the in the real world we can talk a

00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:46.860
little bit about that this is actually

00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.920
The Marvelous magic of

00:11:49.920 --> 00:11:53.940
um the human Enterprise called math

00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:55.920
um

00:11:55.920 --> 00:11:59.579
um yeah and uh

00:11:59.579 --> 00:12:02.700
and then I showed some

00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.440
um but for example this is theoretical

00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.500
math loss in surfaces they don't really

00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:09.899
exist I mean they exist and they don't

00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:13.380
exist at the same time because we cannot

00:12:13.380 --> 00:12:16.860
inhabit the dimensionality of a loss and

00:12:16.860 --> 00:12:19.860
surface with the math that it takes to

00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:22.560
explain them is useful in certain

00:12:22.560 --> 00:12:25.620
scientific and technological Industries

00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:28.680
so we could say they're there and

00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:31.560
they're not there at the same time

00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.839
then we take a little bit of a different

00:12:33.839 --> 00:12:37.260
route here and we take a we look at what

00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.540
I call metamide

00:12:39.540 --> 00:12:41.579
then these are abstractions that are

00:12:41.579 --> 00:12:43.139
actually we could call it metaphysics

00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:45.620
that are actually looking at

00:12:45.620 --> 00:12:49.680
the structure of the rational mind

00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:53.399
itself so this is from a very old text

00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:55.019
we if you want to see more of them

00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:57.720
there's this link and it shows the

00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.440
history of the metaphysical unfoldment

00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.800
from the simple proposition that the

00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:08.519
existence started with the with the wuji

00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.279
which was one egg that had some age

00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.000
symmetry in it and the asymmetry became

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.920
more asymmetrical and one was Yin and

00:13:16.920 --> 00:13:19.620
one was yawn and then this huge

00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.980
metaphysics on all these these

00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:26.399
propositions about reality and and

00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.079
meaning

00:13:28.079 --> 00:13:28.800
um

00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:31.500
um in the iching in Taoism

00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:35.220
they all percolated out by using the

00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:38.579
different uh translations of everything

00:13:38.579 --> 00:13:42.000
you could do with both these two

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.180
fundamental ultimate contrasts and how

00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:48.720
they could move through time so

00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.120
um and how they are associated with the

00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.220
different directions and stuff so this

00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:55.200
is not so much

00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.920
noticing an abstraction in the world but

00:13:58.920 --> 00:14:01.560
starting from the most simple thing

00:14:01.560 --> 00:14:03.899
someone could say

00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:06.779
um metaphysical uh assumptions someone

00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:09.959
could make and then parsing it out from

00:14:09.959 --> 00:14:11.399
there

00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.959
um so we see a lot of this in in our

00:14:15.959 --> 00:14:19.079
community so Wilbur says there's four

00:14:19.079 --> 00:14:21.899
quadrants and then they parse it out

00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.420
from there in the first quadrant which

00:14:24.420 --> 00:14:25.980
is an interior you have both the inside

00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:28.139
and the outside and then you have and

00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:30.360
you can keep parcelating and parcelating

00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.600
it out so we start with these principles

00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.880
that are metaphysical and we can

00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:38.040
continue to play with them and parse

00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:41.360
them out and see if they're useful

00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.959
um okay and that we call

00:14:45.959 --> 00:14:49.680
um the metamind we're actually working

00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:53.480
with uh abstracting how our reasoning

00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.680
functions at a very principal level

00:14:57.680 --> 00:15:00.240
and then we have this interesting thing

00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.320
called mandalamide and this is

00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.420
experience people have when they do dark

00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:08.699
cave Retreats for example and you're in

00:15:08.699 --> 00:15:10.500
the dark for a long time and pretty soon

00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:13.920
you start to see these kaleidoscopic or

00:15:13.920 --> 00:15:16.260
Alex Gray sees these things if you're

00:15:16.260 --> 00:15:18.899
familiar with Alex Grace all these

00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:22.860
geometric and complex geometries and

00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:28.100
mandala-like shapes and movement and uh

00:15:28.100 --> 00:15:31.920
experiences of crystals and Surround

00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:35.760
Sound and so this is we're looking at

00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:37.760
some kind of native

00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:40.380
processes of our own mind it's different

00:15:40.380 --> 00:15:44.480
than looking at our reasoning this way

00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:49.440
and there's some uh

00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.660
a little bit of information on how some

00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:53.279
people interpret that and then I have

00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.279
these these videos of

00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:58.860
that you know what what it might look

00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:00.420
like

00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:03.899
and then finally we have uh try to

00:16:03.899 --> 00:16:05.820
integrate some of this with our notion

00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:07.699
of action protocol

00:16:07.699 --> 00:16:09.360
and

00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:13.500
um what I'm saying is that

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:14.459
um

00:16:14.459 --> 00:16:16.040
in general

00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:19.320
these things can be seen as protocols

00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:24.240
for action and that is you know if I if

00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:25.920
I say

00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:27.980
um

00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.440
um

00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.839
you know one plus one equals two it was

00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:37.019
basically it says take one thing

00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:39.779
and put another thing there

00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:41.639
and

00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:43.920
um and then you have two things one

00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:46.860
minus one means take one away so put one

00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:49.199
another one down take one another one

00:16:49.199 --> 00:16:53.220
away in many mathematical operations are

00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:57.899
described by actions that can be taken

00:16:57.899 --> 00:17:01.920
and so we watch this cool thing that

00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.399
showed

00:17:04.919 --> 00:17:08.220
that when you have an ellipse and these

00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:11.040
are the two focal points if you start a

00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:12.480
billiard ball

00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.000
on the outside of the ellipse it will

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.339
never go on the inside and if you start

00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:19.919
a billiard ball at whatever angle or

00:17:19.919 --> 00:17:22.919
array laser on the inside it will never

00:17:22.919 --> 00:17:25.740
go on the outside so you can say there

00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:28.380
are protocols for actions that there are

00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:31.700
protocols that limit the action for this

00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:35.460
uh for this Ray and

00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.820
um the protocol is this notion of a

00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:41.220
constraint that functions like an

00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.620
ellipse whether it's a real one or

00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:45.299
something like a force field or

00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:47.480
something

00:17:47.520 --> 00:17:51.140
um and so uh

00:17:52.020 --> 00:17:54.539
swarms and murmurations are action

00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.520
protocols

00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:59.340
um this person uh there's a simple

00:17:59.340 --> 00:18:01.440
action protocol you put a dot on the

00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.059
paper you put another dot in the paper

00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:05.340
you put a dot in between and then you

00:18:05.340 --> 00:18:07.440
take any of those dots and you keep

00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.080
putting dots in between and you end up

00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.700
with

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.160
so this will blow your mind start by

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.900
drawing three points in the shape of it

00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.720
can you can't hear that right

00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.460
you can't hear it

00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:21.900
okay

00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.140
so start us off choose a point anywhere

00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.179
within this triangle now we'll draw more

00:18:27.179 --> 00:18:28.980
points by repeating two simple rules

00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:31.200
over and over the first rule tells us to

00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:32.580
randomly select one of the original

00:18:32.580 --> 00:18:34.679
three points for example suppose we

00:18:34.679 --> 00:18:36.539
choose three the second rule tells us to

00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:38.580
move halfway from the point we just drew

00:18:38.580 --> 00:18:40.380
toward the selected point and draw

00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.360
another Point that's it now we repeat

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:44.160
the two rules from the point we just

00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.500
drew randomly select one of the original

00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:48.960
Three Points suppose we choose 0.1 this

00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.000
time move halfway from the point we just

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.919
drew toward Point number one and draw

00:18:52.919 --> 00:18:54.600
another point now we'll repeat once

00:18:54.600 --> 00:18:56.340
again after each new point we'll

00:18:56.340 --> 00:18:57.720
randomly select one of the original

00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.000
Three Points move halfway toward it and

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.860
draw another point the question is what

00:19:01.860 --> 00:19:03.600
happens if we continue to draw hundreds

00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:05.580
or even thousands of points using these

00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:07.740
two simple rules over and over well

00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:09.419
here's what it looks like after 100

00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:11.220
points and here's what it looks like

00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:13.320
after one thousand points and finally

00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:15.600
here's what it looks like after 25 000

00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:17.520
points have been drawn as if by Magic

00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:20.700
this Eerie image so what I'm proposing

00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.120
is that all math mathematical patterns

00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:27.360
whether we understand them as shapes or

00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:30.480
formulas behind it is actually

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.240
could be articulated or translated into

00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.940
a protocol for taking action

00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:38.480
so the the the

00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.400
Spheres on a

00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:43.320
um a shell

00:19:43.320 --> 00:19:45.780
um the protocols for this cell does this

00:19:45.780 --> 00:19:47.580
and its adjacent cell does this and it's

00:19:47.580 --> 00:19:51.299
adjacent cell does this and this is

00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:56.400
our uh unifying or integrating thread

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.500
um of a new theory of the body and so

00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:01.919
this is what I claim

00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:06.000
um and then we have uh this cool little

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.299
mouse thing and

00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:10.940
um

00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:14.640
Euler's equation which is amazing and

00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.760
again this is one that shows if we saw

00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:19.740
something that had these interesting

00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:23.520
wave-like relationships we could say

00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:27.840
well with a protocol beneath them is a

00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:31.200
triangle that is moving around the

00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:35.160
circle it can be described by a protocol

00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.760
of activity of something this one's a

00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:39.960
really good one

00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.200
because we have these

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.780
really amazing shapes that you might see

00:20:47.780 --> 00:20:51.980
somehow and it can actually be

00:20:51.980 --> 00:20:56.280
prescribed by the actions

00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:59.160
the protocols of it are

00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.360
simply that here's a pendulum with one

00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:06.120
one two three four fulcrum that he's

00:21:06.120 --> 00:21:09.600
going to start swinging and all that

00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:13.740
complexity is built on this protocol you

00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:17.640
have a pendulum of X length with four

00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.000
Foci here here here equal Foci and you

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.919
swing it around

00:21:22.919 --> 00:21:26.760
um by some mechanism so

00:21:26.760 --> 00:21:29.340
um then we have all kinds of kooky

00:21:29.340 --> 00:21:32.580
things and uh

00:21:32.580 --> 00:21:36.059
yeah and then um

00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:39.059
uh

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.360
some other comments okay so this is what

00:21:42.360 --> 00:21:44.700
we've been working with

00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:46.559
um and

00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:47.700
um

00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.159
let me stop my share it looks like I

00:21:50.159 --> 00:21:53.460
can't find out how to stop it

00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:55.580
um

00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:57.240
um

00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.080
yeah Holly yeah Aida Nabokov wrote

00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:03.240
Lolita which is I guess people know him

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:04.020
from

00:22:04.020 --> 00:22:06.900
so that's what we're we're at are there

00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:08.340
any

00:22:08.340 --> 00:22:11.159
um questions naive questions any

00:22:11.159 --> 00:22:13.380
comments

00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:19.980
um any riffs any uh metaphors uh

00:22:20.760 --> 00:22:23.460
coming for the uh David had this great

00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:26.100
phrase yesterday that math is a kind of

00:22:26.100 --> 00:22:27.840
elegant precision

00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:29.600
and those two words

00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:33.659
uh uh usually don't come together but

00:22:33.659 --> 00:22:36.600
what I liked about it is we for some

00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:38.880
reason the way our society is our

00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.039
education is we think of math as being

00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.880
sharp and and

00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.700
invasive and and really what we're

00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:51.120
trying to do in this module is it's you

00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:52.980
know a new Theory the body and we want

00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:54.960
to show that just like everything else

00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.320
unfolds from embodied activity

00:22:58.320 --> 00:22:59.580
um but that

00:22:59.580 --> 00:23:03.000
it's something really really special and

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.799
it's not like abstractions when we're

00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.960
like oh my God he's way too abstract you

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.860
know

00:23:07.860 --> 00:23:09.860
um that's when somebody's over

00:23:09.860 --> 00:23:11.880
complexifying something really simple

00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.700
like basically they want to say I'm

00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:17.340
sorry and then they get all abstract and

00:23:17.340 --> 00:23:19.500
they can bring in physics and whatever

00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.840
so we call them pure abstractions

00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:25.039
because they have this elegant precision

00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.840
and when we think of people who are

00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:29.820
really good mathematicians they seem to

00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:32.400
be born that way one of the reasons why

00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.220
math is easy for them is because

00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:37.740
they relate to it not as a cognitive

00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:39.179
problem

00:23:39.179 --> 00:23:41.340
we they don't have a cognitive effort

00:23:41.340 --> 00:23:45.720
into it they see it just like we see

00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.140
um you know normal patterns or colors or

00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.799
something and this is why I say pure

00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.320
math pure abstractions are the way the

00:23:55.320 --> 00:23:58.500
Mind enter directly enters the world I

00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:01.260
think the mind is an organ of perception

00:24:01.260 --> 00:24:04.320
and this is kind of what it's for

00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:05.220
um

00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:07.919
and uh

00:24:07.919 --> 00:24:10.620
and you know most of the sophistication

00:24:10.620 --> 00:24:15.000
of that is not available to us but just

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.520
like I if I ask you prove to me one plus

00:24:17.520 --> 00:24:20.940
one equals two you could go into a lot

00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:24.120
of really sophisticated tautology to

00:24:24.120 --> 00:24:26.400
prove that but in general you just see

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.280
that one plus one equals two in this

00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:32.640
very same way of using the word see is

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.880
the way people see complex equations as

00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.940
being beautiful I mean it it's really

00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:40.980
the same

00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:44.640
the same category of experience that you

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:46.980
know like relative to people who can see

00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:49.380
many different shades of green were kind

00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:51.900
of colorblind right relative to people

00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:53.880
who can see

00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.580
um and manipulate math

00:24:56.580 --> 00:25:01.080
as as as comfortably as that

00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:03.900
so that's kind of

00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:07.320
um the starting point and uh you can

00:25:07.320 --> 00:25:12.360
open it up for there for some ideation

00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.940
um I I'd like to say that um that thank

00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:25.440
you for putting all this together first

00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.880
of all it's wonderful to see all this

00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.100
um content in that from these different

00:25:32.100 --> 00:25:35.940
related fields and um put into onto one

00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:38.520
page

00:25:38.520 --> 00:25:40.640
um

00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:43.140
I guess I'm feeling into some of the

00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:44.700
things you said about

00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:47.220
the relevancy of

00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:50.720
the abstract to

00:25:50.820 --> 00:25:53.880
uh the real so to speak the like what do

00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.860
we do with this you know how is it

00:25:55.860 --> 00:25:58.860
useful in the world in our in our lives

00:25:58.860 --> 00:26:01.020
and how that there are these

00:26:01.020 --> 00:26:03.779
abstractions that we can't see but we

00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:06.419
can imply Through Math that turn out to

00:26:06.419 --> 00:26:07.380
be

00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.559
applicable and useful

00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.960
and I was just thinking about how

00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.740
recently it sort of Kneel To Rock as a

00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:19.559
astrophysicist who has and sort of he's

00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.299
rejecting

00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:22.620
um

00:26:22.620 --> 00:26:25.380
String Theory sort of like theories that

00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:27.600
have been created by math that don't

00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:30.120
that have no evidence that have no proof

00:26:30.120 --> 00:26:33.020
either because they cannot be

00:26:33.020 --> 00:26:35.640
proven without essentially building a

00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.559
model that's the size of the universe

00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.020
itself you know to actually confirm that

00:26:40.020 --> 00:26:41.700
they are right

00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:43.559
and so There's a constraint on their

00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.100
testability

00:26:46.260 --> 00:26:46.919
[Music]

00:26:46.919 --> 00:26:48.919
um

00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:55.380
he's saying that he wants to go back to

00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:57.539
these fundamental math equations and

00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:59.400
show how they are

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.620
that you without sort of generating

00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:04.799
particles that haven't been discovered

00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.559
and um he's trying to make this effort

00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.340
to keep it real so to speak and

00:27:11.340 --> 00:27:13.320
and I was just thinking about like on

00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:15.919
the human level

00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:20.240
in our individual lives how we

00:27:22.020 --> 00:27:24.360
can get lost in abstraction that doesn't

00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:27.480
have an application to our real life

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.159
and how

00:27:29.159 --> 00:27:31.200
this is where I'm sort of drawn back to

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.940
Alexander

00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:34.020
that

00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:38.179
it's it's like he was trying to

00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:43.559
get at this how we can develop a sense

00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:47.220
not necessarily like a mathematics but a

00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:50.460
sense of felt sense that

00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:54.600
the abstraction has deep relevance to

00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:56.460
Our Lives

00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.460
in a way such that

00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.760
it can guide us towards

00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:05.520
that which is more more living or more

00:28:05.520 --> 00:28:08.480
generative

00:28:11.580 --> 00:28:12.779
and

00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:14.880
so I I feel like the what you're

00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.640
presenting is

00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.919
in the mathematical aspect of things is

00:28:19.919 --> 00:28:23.580
almost for me it's a faith building

00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:25.260
exercise

00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:28.380
because I see how these be these

00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:30.179
equations generate

00:28:30.179 --> 00:28:32.400
geometries

00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:37.320
that have form and order an organization

00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:38.700
and

00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.440
and then I see something like a

00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.840
self-organizing

00:28:42.840 --> 00:28:44.940
like a swarm

00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:46.020
um

00:28:46.020 --> 00:28:48.299
a flock of bird the murmuration and all

00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:49.559
that

00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.320
and the sort of the deep deep emergent

00:28:52.320 --> 00:28:56.640
nature towards of nature

00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.100
and how I can't I can't get my mind

00:28:59.100 --> 00:29:00.960
around the mathematics behind that

00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.779
because it's a stochastic process and it

00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.840
sort of defies math and yet

00:29:06.840 --> 00:29:10.620
I see the order so I know

00:29:10.620 --> 00:29:13.100
that there's order emerging from that

00:29:13.100 --> 00:29:16.700
stochastic process even though I can't

00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:20.299
mathematically get there

00:29:20.340 --> 00:29:22.440
um because it's stochastic

00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.820
and sort of Random

00:29:26.100 --> 00:29:27.840
appearing

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:33.000
so to to see these geometries be

00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:36.419
played out and

00:29:36.419 --> 00:29:38.940
in terms of the mathematic mathematics

00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:41.460
can describe

00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:43.440
but even borrowing from these extra

00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.799
Dimensions to make them instantiate

00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:49.980
it to me it just builds this faith

00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.940
in the in the order behind

00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.279
the stochastic process that that I can't

00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:57.720
see

00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:01.200
and I can't calculate it but

00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.600
so what what feels really alive is how

00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:05.580
how do I

00:30:05.580 --> 00:30:08.520
you know more more fully embody and and

00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:11.039
develop my faith

00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:16.080
in this sense that I can have or develop

00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:19.039
of the of

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.059
more like what Alexander is talking

00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:24.240
about this the sense of rightness and

00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.520
generative

00:30:26.520 --> 00:30:29.039
fullness

00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.960
so I feel like it's a it's a beautiful

00:30:33.360 --> 00:30:35.220
to me it's almost like reading scripture

00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:37.919
or something it just really

00:30:37.919 --> 00:30:39.960
builds my faith

00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:42.419
in this fundamental order that's

00:30:42.419 --> 00:30:46.640
generative and ultimately loving

00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:48.480
yeah there's a couple of different

00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:50.399
questions there uh the first question

00:30:50.399 --> 00:30:52.799
you know Sabina Hawkins status says the

00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.200
same thing so

00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.140
she says the math is driving these huge

00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:00.059
projects

00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.360
um let me give you this example so

00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:06.720
it was once at a a talk

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.440
at Yale about from this woman she and

00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.360
her husband came up with the theory of

00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:13.740
dark energy

00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.620
and dark energy is a weird Theory people

00:31:16.620 --> 00:31:19.860
use it now because

00:31:19.860 --> 00:31:22.320
um it's by definition you can't observe

00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:25.020
it and there's no way to

00:31:25.020 --> 00:31:27.779
um empirically test for it

00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:30.419
now the reason why they hypothesize it

00:31:30.419 --> 00:31:32.580
is because

00:31:32.580 --> 00:31:35.640
um if you describe dark energy in a

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.240
certain mathematical way it fixes some

00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:42.659
of the loopholes in let's say Grand

00:31:42.659 --> 00:31:46.679
unified field Theory so it's a term dark

00:31:46.679 --> 00:31:50.760
energy that is a hypothesis that

00:31:50.760 --> 00:31:53.279
reconciles

00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.100
um you know it's there first they come

00:31:56.100 --> 00:31:57.659
up with the math that fixes it and they

00:31:57.659 --> 00:31:59.220
say well then this describes something

00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:02.159
it describes Dark Energy

00:32:02.159 --> 00:32:05.279
um and when I asked her I said you know

00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:09.419
to clarify that so to clarify it's a

00:32:09.419 --> 00:32:13.159
inference based upon mathematical

00:32:13.159 --> 00:32:16.500
robustness correct and she was just got

00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:18.299
all excited like look look I'm not

00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:21.240
saying that's not a valid thing I'm just

00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.580
want you to commit that this is what

00:32:23.580 --> 00:32:26.700
you're doing so one of the things we can

00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.779
look at

00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:30.360
is this is inferential there's a

00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:33.299
hypothesis and then you infer

00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:34.039
um

00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:38.100
that that this must be

00:32:38.100 --> 00:32:42.539
um or at least adequate terminology to

00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:46.020
uh continue to work and Sabina

00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:47.820
hoffenstetter

00:32:47.820 --> 00:32:50.159
um is saying that this is a scam the

00:32:50.159 --> 00:32:52.140
physicists they get they get they get

00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.539
grant money because they can make a an

00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:57.120
inferential hypothesis and then it costs

00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:59.820
you know five different nations billions

00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:01.799
of dollars to collaboratively build

00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.860
something and then even then what

00:33:04.860 --> 00:33:07.799
they're seeing is so Theory driven that

00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.440
you look for things that fit the theory

00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:12.539
so

00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:13.679
um

00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:20.480
I describe science as an action protocol

00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.539
to science is an action protocol to

00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:26.940
create experiments that validate

00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:30.000
theories this is what science is right

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.120
so if what is an atom an atom is

00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:36.120
described scientifically but it requires

00:33:36.120 --> 00:33:39.179
a lot of adequate participation to find

00:33:39.179 --> 00:33:42.539
an atom it requires Theory it requires

00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:45.380
engineering it requires a theory of how

00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:48.779
whatever you're using to watch the atom

00:33:48.779 --> 00:33:53.039
uh works you know so if we think of math

00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.260
as an organ of perception or pure

00:33:55.260 --> 00:33:57.840
abstraction as the or mind as an organ

00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:00.179
of perception it's just like every other

00:34:00.179 --> 00:34:04.260
organ perception it's it it requires

00:34:04.260 --> 00:34:07.500
adequate participation right so I can

00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:10.800
see a tardigrad in the water but I have

00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.800
to have a microscope and I have to

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.919
understand how the microscope works and

00:34:16.919 --> 00:34:19.980
be confident that it's not a simulation

00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:24.659
Mission beamed in by by you know I apple

00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:27.480
apple and films it could be that you

00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:28.560
know

00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:30.060
um so

00:34:30.060 --> 00:34:31.560
so

00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:34.260
um the the but the worst the worst ones

00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:37.020
are hypotheses that are validated by

00:34:37.020 --> 00:34:40.260
inference in inference and then the math

00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:43.800
can be made to fit it or vice versa

00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:45.839
there's other hypotheses that are

00:34:45.839 --> 00:34:48.899
validated by the math that you can't

00:34:48.899 --> 00:34:51.240
like the Higgs boson that you can do

00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:55.560
some in experimental observations on

00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:58.619
um but you know Sabrina says these are

00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:00.720
getting out of hand

00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:05.220
um we as as non-professionals get

00:35:05.220 --> 00:35:10.320
Hoodwinked by the overhyping of Industry

00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.839
so for example I have a friend in in

00:35:12.839 --> 00:35:14.339
Norway

00:35:14.339 --> 00:35:17.040
she reads

00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:18.200
um

00:35:18.200 --> 00:35:22.859
X-rays and CAT scans to detect cancer

00:35:22.859 --> 00:35:24.300
and

00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:24.960
um

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.820
she says you know you think it's just

00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:29.460
like you get an x-ray CAT scan and then

00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:31.200
we know if you have cancer or not she

00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:34.320
says it takes 20 30 years working with a

00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:36.480
mentor to know what is cancer and what

00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:41.700
is just you know so the the expertise

00:35:41.700 --> 00:35:44.400
involved and this is also why they rely

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.579
a lot on AI because they can AI can can

00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:50.700
start to handle like all the minutia

00:35:50.700 --> 00:35:53.220
that our patterns or not patterns and

00:35:53.220 --> 00:35:55.980
and so when she says you have to work

00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:58.020
with a mentors because the mentor has

00:35:58.020 --> 00:36:01.260
seen a mill you know a hundred thousand

00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:04.380
maybe a thousand patients and known what

00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:08.160
how the prognosis went AI you feed it a

00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.020
million billion

00:36:10.020 --> 00:36:13.200
pictures and the prognosis so can start

00:36:13.200 --> 00:36:18.960
to become an expertise faster right so

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.079
um but so we can see these things C and

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.640
cancer on an X-ray is is also still very

00:36:26.640 --> 00:36:27.599
um

00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.500
um

00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:30.839
you know it's empirical but it's a hazy

00:36:30.839 --> 00:36:33.240
right it's not an inference

00:36:33.240 --> 00:36:38.220
um but uh it requires these this pattern

00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:39.960
recognition and tuition because you've

00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:42.420
seen a million times and you may or may

00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:44.700
not be able to explicate your hunch

00:36:44.700 --> 00:36:46.980
basically

00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:49.440
um dark energy is the worst because they

00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.420
haven't made they're like by definition

00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.820
you can't see it or experiment or

00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:56.700
Observer it in any way so so in this

00:36:56.700 --> 00:36:59.180
case it's just outside to me it's just

00:36:59.180 --> 00:37:04.260
it's it's stands but by itself

00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:08.220
um so so there's so there's a lot of of

00:37:08.220 --> 00:37:11.099
that going on there's also what if we

00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:14.220
think of of metamines like our minds can

00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:15.540
also

00:37:15.540 --> 00:37:17.820
see patterns that are not useful like

00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:20.400
that movie a beautiful life A Beautiful

00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.260
Mind A Beautiful Mind

00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:26.099
you know are there patterns in

00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:27.720
in

00:37:27.720 --> 00:37:30.420
um there's there's potential patterns in

00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:32.579
everything if you filter out enough you

00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:35.520
know and so he was a great cryptographer

00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:37.740
but he also

00:37:37.740 --> 00:37:40.380
um there was this he was seeing more of

00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:43.440
his mind than the world it reminds me of

00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:45.660
like Apple's new uh

00:37:45.660 --> 00:37:48.660
uh virtual reality things one of the

00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:50.880
things they show really well is that

00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.040
when you turn away you can see the world

00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:54.960
directly and then when you turn you know

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.180
traffic traces your eyes

00:37:57.180 --> 00:37:59.220
and this is interesting because some

00:37:59.220 --> 00:38:02.220
people they can't they have like these

00:38:02.220 --> 00:38:05.099
meta system you know they're like like

00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:07.020
on the Spectrum or something like this

00:38:07.020 --> 00:38:09.420
guy where he saw patterns everywhere he

00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:11.640
couldn't he couldn't look away from his

00:38:11.640 --> 00:38:14.760
mind right so there's also this

00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:18.420
fuzzy interface between

00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:21.300
are we imposing patterns or are we

00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:23.460
seeing real patterns

00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:24.660
um

00:38:24.660 --> 00:38:26.820
and that was in your question somehow

00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.700
and then with Christopher Alexander the

00:38:29.700 --> 00:38:31.619
question is

00:38:31.619 --> 00:38:33.740
um

00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:36.900
is an interesting one it's it's much

00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.119
more humanistic and psychological but

00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:40.619
that is

00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:41.400
um

00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.859
can we have

00:38:43.859 --> 00:38:47.280
let's say a a discipline of pure

00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:49.760
obstruction

00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:53.400
which

00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.339
um is not like science it's like basic

00:38:56.339 --> 00:38:57.960
value proposition it's not

00:38:57.960 --> 00:38:59.880
scientifically neutral

00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:02.339
but its value proposition is to find

00:39:02.339 --> 00:39:05.760
patterns that generate more life

00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.859
um and

00:39:07.859 --> 00:39:10.859
um if we were doing that then I mean you

00:39:10.859 --> 00:39:12.839
one could

00:39:12.839 --> 00:39:15.780
um say that we are caught up in a

00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:19.440
certain kind of math system that is more

00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.079
useful for machines and and destruction

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.520
I don't know how you would make the case

00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:25.200
for that but it could be the case that

00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:28.380
there's all kinds of navs

00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:29.720
um

00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:32.880
in shape similar to like the delusion

00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:34.920
Revolution when he talked about folds

00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.980
and interfaces and mycorrhizae these are

00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:41.220
all these are not platonic ideals these

00:39:41.220 --> 00:39:43.940
are all new shapes

00:39:43.940 --> 00:39:47.579
and geometries and relationships that

00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:48.960
that

00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.460
um

00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:52.920
have different they do that if we could

00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:54.540
find them in nature which we do they

00:39:54.540 --> 00:39:56.640
have diff if we're more fascinated with

00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.079
them then they would have different

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.119
consequences

00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.119
um and what would a math like that be

00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:04.560
um I think a lot of people are

00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:06.900
interested in this and so our project

00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:09.660
started off with platonic ideals it has

00:40:09.660 --> 00:40:11.640
a certain power but it's all entangled

00:40:11.640 --> 00:40:14.579
into like the death machine for some

00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:16.740
reason

00:40:16.740 --> 00:40:18.720
um and what's the possibility to have

00:40:18.720 --> 00:40:22.400
systems of pure abstraction that reveal

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:26.640
uh affordances that we don't really we

00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.040
don't really understand

00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:30.960
um

00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.500
and of course one of the difficulties is

00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:37.140
that these projects are expensive and

00:40:37.140 --> 00:40:40.440
only if they have a profit margin you

00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:42.240
know the ones at the profit margin get

00:40:42.240 --> 00:40:45.320
funded so it keeps us in that Loop of of

00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:50.900
these kinds of these kinds of Industries

00:40:51.240 --> 00:40:53.280
so I think like there was like four

00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.599
different things you were dealing with

00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.359
there I think I unpacked them okay

00:40:57.359 --> 00:41:00.359
foreign

00:41:03.619 --> 00:41:08.339
as a bit of an interloper bye everyone

00:41:08.339 --> 00:41:11.280
um yeah I know happy to be here uh

00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:13.500
lots of things came up in that article

00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:16.500
for me that are things that I'm

00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.380
like to puzzle about and puzzling about

00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:20.820
um

00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:23.040
and

00:41:23.040 --> 00:41:25.680
so I think I'll riff a little bit on

00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:27.240
some of this so

00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:28.920
I mean one Paradox for me is this

00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:30.480
question of I think which comes up a bit

00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.400
of like I guess realism or which things

00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.440
are which things are like abstract but

00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:38.760
not really real versus like really real

00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:40.380
um

00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:42.060
and so some things that come to mind

00:41:42.060 --> 00:41:43.980
right so so one is this notion that like

00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:46.800
you know it's not a math or it's not

00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.300
there's not an abstraction of a thing

00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:49.500
but it's like

00:41:49.500 --> 00:41:51.119
perplexing way in which there's sort of

00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.339
an infinite on any phenomenon you might

00:41:53.339 --> 00:41:54.540
be interested in this with this infinite

00:41:54.540 --> 00:41:56.820
family of ways you might abstract it in

00:41:56.820 --> 00:41:58.440
different abstractions

00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.480
in some sometimes like highlight a

00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:01.560
particular aspect of the thing that you

00:42:01.560 --> 00:42:02.579
care about and leave something else

00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:04.440
aside in other cases there's different

00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:05.480
abstractions that are actually

00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.440
isomorphic and isomorphic basically

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.400
means there's a way to always translate

00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:09.900
from one to the other so they're able to

00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:11.640
express kind of exactly the same things

00:42:11.640 --> 00:42:14.099
but one might make something very

00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:16.440
by pop out very Salient very present and

00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:17.760
so when you use that abstraction like

00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.200
certain kinds of ideas are very clear

00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:20.640
and easy to have and other kinds of

00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:22.440
ideas take a lot of Machinery they

00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:23.760
switch it to another abstraction and

00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:25.200
like these ideas are really simple and

00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:27.480
these ideas are really hard

00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.099
um and so that's kind of perplexing for

00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:30.720
me as somebody who's like semi-math

00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:33.240
pilled like I kind of feel like stuff is

00:42:33.240 --> 00:42:34.859
made out of math in some sense and yet

00:42:34.859 --> 00:42:36.980
they're these like manifold different

00:42:36.980 --> 00:42:39.359
maths that I can use to describe the

00:42:39.359 --> 00:42:41.099
same thing so there's it's not I'm not

00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:42.240
sure if it's a paradox but it's just

00:42:42.240 --> 00:42:43.619
like dilemma like what does it mean then

00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.660
for me to take the math as real

00:42:45.660 --> 00:42:48.480
um an example I often use for that

00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.859
um

00:42:49.859 --> 00:42:51.359
which is kind of related to the music

00:42:51.359 --> 00:42:53.940
thing is like um if you imagine a sound

00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.260
that you hear you know you've probably

00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:56.820
seen pictures like a sound wave you know

00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:58.500
it's like kind of wiggly line over time

00:42:58.500 --> 00:43:00.359
so you know this axis is time and this

00:43:00.359 --> 00:43:02.160
axis is like pressure or amplitude or

00:43:02.160 --> 00:43:03.300
something and it's telling you how you

00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:04.980
know your eardrum might wiggle over time

00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:07.319
as that sound hits your ear and that is

00:43:07.319 --> 00:43:08.460
of cut in some sense a full

00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:10.140
characterization characterization of the

00:43:10.140 --> 00:43:11.880
sound but then there's this completely

00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:13.500
mathematically equivalent representation

00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:15.599
called The Frequency representation or

00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:16.740
there's this transformation called the

00:43:16.740 --> 00:43:18.119
Fourier transform that switches between

00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.920
them where instead you take that exact

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.660
same sound and you say it's this much of

00:43:21.660 --> 00:43:24.060
like middle C this much of a this much

00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:25.619
of that this much of that and you get

00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:26.940
exactly the same thing in the end you

00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:28.020
can switch between them they are

00:43:28.020 --> 00:43:30.180
identical in some sense but one makes

00:43:30.180 --> 00:43:32.160
really present the like kind of our

00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:34.260
acoustic experience of the sound that

00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:35.400
one also tells you a lot more about

00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.079
resonance which things like are

00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.079
Amplified in a room versus not

00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.960
um but they're like both I in also kind

00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:44.579
of identical and so that's like puzzling

00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:46.560
so which which one is real or what does

00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:47.880
it mean then

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:48.839
um

00:43:48.839 --> 00:43:51.359
I find perplexing and then like a next

00:43:51.359 --> 00:43:53.520
level of that that I find perplexing and

00:43:53.520 --> 00:43:55.079
maybe this is related to the body stuff

00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.000
that again I haven't been on all the

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:58.440
courses so I may not fully understand

00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.859
the theory of the body here but um

00:44:01.859 --> 00:44:03.480
you know when I think about my embodied

00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:06.119
intuition about the space I'm in

00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.980
it does feel you know like it's like oh

00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:09.300
yeah it's three-dimensional you know

00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:10.500
that makes sense you know there's like

00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:12.300
this direction this direction in that

00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:14.400
direction okay great you know 3D easy

00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:16.859
like the real nature of spaces 3D and

00:44:16.859 --> 00:44:18.180
then you know and sure maybe some

00:44:18.180 --> 00:44:19.260
physicists are doing some like really

00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:21.000
crazy stuff they get like 12d but like

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:22.319
really it's three come on like I walk

00:44:22.319 --> 00:44:24.420
around in 3D space

00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:27.240
a chunk of my work these days is in a

00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:28.560
field called computer vision and

00:44:28.560 --> 00:44:30.960
specifically tracking the human body

00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.460
um and and so coming up with

00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.260
representations of the pose of a human

00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:36.560
sort of standing in space

00:44:36.560 --> 00:44:39.720
that you know if on one of the models

00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:41.339
that I use you'll treat the human body

00:44:41.339 --> 00:44:42.480
as something like having something like

00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.940
24 joints so okay you've got 24 kind of

00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.280
joints that can be anywhere in space so

00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:49.440
to to characterize the full pose of my

00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.440
body takes sort of 72 numbers you know

00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:54.119
for each of the 24 joints there's an X

00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:55.680
y's there's three dimensions of position

00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:58.440
so now my position is actually not a

00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.420
three-dimensional point my position is

00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:02.400
actually a 72 dimensional point and when

00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.960
I move when I dance when I do whatever

00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.720
I'm doing I'm a point moving through

00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:09.900
trajectories of the 72 dimensional space

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:11.460
um and that's like you know this isn't I

00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:12.780
didn't need a particle accelerator for

00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:13.680
that it's not something like totally

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:15.000
crazy it's just kind of like a different

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.619
representation it's like that another

00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.180
way of looking at how My Body Works

00:45:18.180 --> 00:45:20.220
where it's most naturally represented in

00:45:20.220 --> 00:45:21.240
that space and then I can do all the

00:45:21.240 --> 00:45:22.560
same geometry I can measure distances

00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:24.839
between points and that 72 dimensional

00:45:24.839 --> 00:45:25.920
space that's like saying how different

00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:27.780
is this pose from this pose how

00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:29.160
different does this pose from that pose

00:45:29.160 --> 00:45:31.500
and so on so like there's this very real

00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:33.240
sense in which I'm always navigating

00:45:33.240 --> 00:45:34.980
72-dimensional space and my brain's

00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:36.119
really good at that right like I can

00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.579
like grab this object here like I'm

00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:40.440
moving so many different joints

00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.119
simultaneously just to grab it I know

00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:43.859
how to get from like this point in 72

00:45:43.859 --> 00:45:45.420
dimensional space to that point in 72

00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:47.339
dimensional space instantly right like I

00:45:47.339 --> 00:45:49.140
have strong intuitions about it

00:45:49.140 --> 00:45:51.720
and so clearly in an embodied sense I

00:45:51.720 --> 00:45:54.540
also live in this other space and so

00:45:54.540 --> 00:45:56.040
like I don't know so I find that again

00:45:56.040 --> 00:45:57.420
that kind of perplexing with this

00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:59.940
question of um of like realism is like

00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:03.000
am I really in 3D or am I really in 72d

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.700
and I'm like kind of in both and like or

00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:06.900
the different abstractions that

00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:08.400
highlight different aspects of my

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.680
experience or something

00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:11.760
um

00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:13.440
and the 72 dimensional one is much more

00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.060
human you know planets maybe don't

00:46:15.060 --> 00:46:16.740
operate in somebody 2D space they're

00:46:16.740 --> 00:46:18.300
operating maybe in three space or maybe

00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:20.220
in some other configuration space they

00:46:20.220 --> 00:46:22.380
rotate and things like that but um so

00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:24.180
now we've got many spaces and some of us

00:46:24.180 --> 00:46:25.740
inhabit one some of us inhabit another

00:46:25.740 --> 00:46:27.300
almost like an um well so that's weird

00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.160
too

00:46:29.160 --> 00:46:30.060
um

00:46:30.060 --> 00:46:31.680
yeah so those are sort of the some of

00:46:31.680 --> 00:46:32.940
the things that come up when I think

00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.040
about this it's like which which what

00:46:35.040 --> 00:46:36.900
what can all of these be real what does

00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:38.160
it mean for these things to be real and

00:46:38.160 --> 00:46:40.200
in fact is the 72-dimensional space less

00:46:40.200 --> 00:46:41.940
real than the three-dimensional space or

00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:43.680
are they on a kind of equal ontological

00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:45.420
footing in some sense and just can I

00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:47.760
flip from one to the other you know

00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:50.220
I'll leave it there Charles this is

00:46:50.220 --> 00:46:53.160
exactly how we were talking about you

00:46:53.160 --> 00:46:55.980
know theory of the body and that is

00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:59.400
um our fundamental uh abstractions

00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.060
memory imagination we we use space

00:47:03.060 --> 00:47:06.119
space and location

00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:08.720
uh much more than time times

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:11.819
much more recent but

00:47:11.819 --> 00:47:13.740
um so to answer your question I would

00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:16.740
say that I would say they're they're the

00:47:16.740 --> 00:47:19.920
same reality in 72 dimensional space at

00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.920
some way can be can be collapsed to

00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:24.599
three-dimensional space

00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:28.140
so that's their relationship so

00:47:28.140 --> 00:47:30.359
um this is actually

00:47:30.359 --> 00:47:32.940
um not crazy at all I'm sure that you

00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.920
know this for real I mean you're just

00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.500
scared to be declarative about it but

00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:40.319
like when you go into space like the

00:47:40.319 --> 00:47:43.920
astronauts it just freaks me out because

00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.619
you have you don't just have

00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:49.079
you know um ships are the same way but

00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.660
spaceships are work weirder you don't

00:47:51.660 --> 00:47:53.700
just have forward and back and left and

00:47:53.700 --> 00:47:56.819
right you have yaw and the other one and

00:47:56.819 --> 00:47:59.880
then this one and that one and

00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:03.300
um this was the amazing amazing uh

00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:04.920
written about it a lot you know that

00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:08.520
film Apollo 13 with Tom Hanks and

00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:11.339
they have to go into the lunar module to

00:48:11.339 --> 00:48:13.500
save uh

00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:15.180
they have to shut down all their

00:48:15.180 --> 00:48:16.920
equipment goes into the lunar module

00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:19.020
That was supposed to land on the on the

00:48:19.020 --> 00:48:23.760
moon to uh to save oxygen and they're

00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:25.079
freezing to death anyways their

00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:26.700
equipment's shut down and so when they

00:48:26.700 --> 00:48:29.040
go back into

00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:32.579
um to they they they need to get home

00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:35.180
and they can see the Earth is over there

00:48:35.180 --> 00:48:39.420
they have no idea where over their means

00:48:39.420 --> 00:48:41.579
whether they should do this Thruster or

00:48:41.579 --> 00:48:44.640
that thrust they have zero idea of what

00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:46.980
over there means because there's

00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:49.440
multiple dimensions of space and because

00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.619
their computer no longer tracked it they

00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:55.920
can't trace it back so they devised this

00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:57.780
thing that works if you saw the scene

00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:00.839
I'm sure it's hopelessly simplified

00:49:00.839 --> 00:49:03.119
they have three people working at the

00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.280
thrusters at the same time and they just

00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.920
use the porthole and they say keep Earth

00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.260
in the center of the porthole like a

00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:12.599
video game and one's working one and

00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:14.040
one's working the other and one's

00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:16.140
working the other they turn it into

00:49:16.140 --> 00:49:17.640
complete

00:49:17.640 --> 00:49:20.220
simple perception and body

00:49:20.220 --> 00:49:21.839
uh

00:49:21.839 --> 00:49:25.460
um so it's a it's a it's it's a you know

00:49:25.460 --> 00:49:28.140
uh you gotta watch the movie because

00:49:28.140 --> 00:49:30.240
then we can have a conversation but this

00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:32.400
is like fascinating so this notion that

00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.980
we if we didn't have gravity same thing

00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:36.900
when you see these people come on the

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:38.880
space station and they they come out of

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.460
a a tube and then there's a tube this

00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.020
way in a tube this way in a tube this

00:49:43.020 --> 00:49:45.060
way and they all look the same now you

00:49:45.060 --> 00:49:47.160
would say well it's easy she just comes

00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:49.140
out and she takes a right

00:49:49.140 --> 00:49:51.060
but she doesn't know if she's upside

00:49:51.060 --> 00:49:53.460
down or a right side or you don't like

00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:56.760
like so these people's idea of their

00:49:56.760 --> 00:50:00.180
bodies are different they're much

00:50:00.180 --> 00:50:03.480
different than our ideas of our body we

00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:05.880
walk around like same with uh horses

00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:08.160
they're much more like we walk around

00:50:08.160 --> 00:50:11.520
like stick figures this is the mostly

00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:15.540
how I we use our bodies and we're hence

00:50:15.540 --> 00:50:18.380
because our minds locate information

00:50:18.380 --> 00:50:22.260
relationally by Dimensions the fewer

00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:24.900
Dimensions we move our body in the more

00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:27.780
the less cognitively sophisticated we

00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:28.740
are

00:50:28.740 --> 00:50:32.700
I have a friend this was years ago when

00:50:32.700 --> 00:50:36.060
the PC encoding digital Revolution was

00:50:36.060 --> 00:50:37.319
first starting

00:50:37.319 --> 00:50:42.119
and he started taking skydiving lessons

00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.339
because then when he coded he had more

00:50:44.339 --> 00:50:46.200
places

00:50:46.200 --> 00:50:49.020
to put pieces of code instead of just

00:50:49.020 --> 00:50:52.500
right left this this way so but this is

00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:56.819
this is how the mind and its cartography

00:50:56.819 --> 00:51:01.319
is directly related with our body and

00:51:01.319 --> 00:51:04.380
our awareness of the body in space

00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:07.319
now it works both ways once you get how

00:51:07.319 --> 00:51:09.480
you can extend your mind into a

00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:11.880
cartography of dimensions

00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:15.240
that is different uh it doesn't

00:51:15.240 --> 00:51:18.599
necessarily make your body move but once

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:21.000
you get the hang of it you can start to

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.460
relate to the expansion of the

00:51:23.460 --> 00:51:25.859
cartography of your mind

00:51:25.859 --> 00:51:28.200
um but everybody does that you know we

00:51:28.200 --> 00:51:30.420
look this way for our jamboard we look

00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:33.000
down there from our memories we look

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:35.940
this way for perception you can I have a

00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.760
meditation called for posture meditation

00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.339
which could control what your mind is

00:51:41.339 --> 00:51:45.359
doing because we have locations in our

00:51:45.359 --> 00:51:48.119
minds that we use and and then our eyes

00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:49.559
and our

00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:53.819
tongs our microactions move around uh

00:51:53.819 --> 00:51:57.839
sympathetically in our heads so you and

00:51:57.839 --> 00:52:00.599
Cheryl should start a Dance Movement

00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:02.579
Company

00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:06.420
which has direct cognitive effects on

00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:09.359
the artistic imagination that people can

00:52:09.359 --> 00:52:12.839
have there's a direct thread and then

00:52:12.839 --> 00:52:14.280
this way you finally can work on

00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:16.520
something

00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.099
you're right on you're right on and of

00:52:20.099 --> 00:52:22.859
course then if you're into robotics then

00:52:22.859 --> 00:52:26.220
you have actual validating information

00:52:26.220 --> 00:52:28.500
that comes back and you it's a challenge

00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:31.140
so you work more on it and vice versa

00:52:31.140 --> 00:52:34.020
but this is this is exactly the kind of

00:52:34.020 --> 00:52:36.300
stuff we're trying to do here

00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:38.220
um the highest abstraction that you're

00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:40.500
trying that you know is real or not real

00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:42.839
and the fact that it lives in the body

00:52:42.839 --> 00:52:47.520
is yeah brilliant a brilliant syncretic

00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:49.140
uh

00:52:49.140 --> 00:52:52.200
description yeah thank you so much you

00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:53.880
have some other follow-up to that'd be

00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:56.059
great

00:52:58.680 --> 00:53:01.619
I actually want

00:53:01.619 --> 00:53:03.599
um there's something it's so interesting

00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:06.300
so Xavier and I watched the new

00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:08.700
Spider-Man yesterday like into the

00:53:08.700 --> 00:53:10.559
spider the spider versus Spider-Man the

00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.240
animated version

00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:15.660
and I remember so the amazing thing

00:53:15.660 --> 00:53:17.760
about this animated film

00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.540
is that they're very very

00:53:21.540 --> 00:53:24.599
kind of in all aspects of its animation

00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:27.119
of its kind of like of the way that it

00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.900
cuts shots or overlaps sounds

00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:32.819
um but also like in the movement of the

00:53:32.819 --> 00:53:35.700
characters bodies like there's something

00:53:35.700 --> 00:53:38.780
that's so

00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:41.640
multi-dimensionally Dynamic about all of

00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:43.800
it it's almost like that 72 dimensional

00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.260
space but in a film

00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:48.660
um and of course like Spider-Man is like

00:53:48.660 --> 00:53:52.980
a spider like um all of these characters

00:53:52.980 --> 00:53:54.839
um in kind of multi-dimensional space as

00:53:54.839 --> 00:53:57.319
as iter as I guess like

00:53:57.319 --> 00:53:59.960
proliferations of like the Spider-Man

00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:02.400
character is that

00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.160
Spider-Man can walk upside can walk

00:54:05.160 --> 00:54:07.619
upside down it can like he can swing

00:54:07.619 --> 00:54:11.099
through space he can like the way that

00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:14.099
we see a street with cars down and want

00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:17.520
to walk across like roads it's like

00:54:17.520 --> 00:54:19.920
Spider-Man can just swing through it or

00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.079
like around it

00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:22.980
um

00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:26.040
and I found that that film did this

00:54:26.040 --> 00:54:29.599
amazing job of really really elucidating

00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:32.880
like the felt quality of what it would

00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:36.079
be like if that whole kind of like

00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:38.880
dimensional higher dimensional um well

00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.220
was like available to us like the way

00:54:41.220 --> 00:54:44.059
that I'm actually I think folks who do

00:54:44.059 --> 00:54:47.880
uh what's that thing what's that thing

00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:49.559
that people do where they can like jump

00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:53.520
all over trees and buildings

00:54:53.520 --> 00:54:56.240
pardon

00:54:56.780 --> 00:55:00.420
race parkour yeah parkour

00:55:00.420 --> 00:55:02.160
um and that's someone that like is part

00:55:02.160 --> 00:55:03.720
of respawn like he works a lot with

00:55:03.720 --> 00:55:05.700
parkour specifically because it's like

00:55:05.700 --> 00:55:08.339
physically if you can see

00:55:08.339 --> 00:55:10.380
I don't know like a random bench or a

00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:12.720
wall or like a roof or a tree is as

00:55:12.720 --> 00:55:15.540
space for you to walk on and use in all

00:55:15.540 --> 00:55:17.220
these other

00:55:17.220 --> 00:55:19.140
in in kind of like as like these

00:55:19.140 --> 00:55:21.059
externalized affordances for your body

00:55:21.059 --> 00:55:25.500
to shape around then there's this way in

00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:26.520
which

00:55:26.520 --> 00:55:28.800
yeah the pathways

00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:30.839
these like other Pathways that were

00:55:30.839 --> 00:55:32.700
invisible before completely open up like

00:55:32.700 --> 00:55:35.400
the rats in the maze

00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.680
um and I think there's like something

00:55:37.680 --> 00:55:39.540
around

00:55:39.540 --> 00:55:41.400
Xavier when you were asking about like

00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:43.380
what is more real

00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:46.559
like that more real is less a matter of

00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:47.880
like

00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:50.220
because there is an asymmetry to fit

00:55:50.220 --> 00:55:52.319
it's like what is the best because you

00:55:52.319 --> 00:55:54.780
were describing it too there's like a

00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:58.020
time when a certain like aspect should

00:55:58.020 --> 00:56:02.099
actually be presenced more to maybe

00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:04.800
um bring out like I guess bring out

00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:06.420
aspects that are more relevant or

00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:08.460
Salient or just like a better fit for

00:56:08.460 --> 00:56:10.500
that situation like sometimes you might

00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:12.180
want to look at something because it's

00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:15.780
because Beauty serves our Harmony serves

00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:18.240
the situation like the context more than

00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:21.720
just like a geometric maybe like cold or

00:56:21.720 --> 00:56:24.000
higher dimensional wave sensing into it

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.380
that kind of thing

00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:27.780
so I feel like yeah there's just

00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:29.400
something around

00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:33.540
how we're relating to reality or what is

00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:35.760
like right or more true or more

00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.220
beautiful that's such a gathering point

00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:43.980
of so many different contexts that

00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:48.480
you almost have to like

00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.880
I don't know it's like you have to like

00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:55.140
pull so many dimensions in in such a way

00:56:55.140 --> 00:56:57.359
that you're allowing the pattern that

00:56:57.359 --> 00:57:00.000
wants to form to actually meet

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.480
like meet your like meet the whole body

00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:06.599
like meet the collective body

00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:08.400
and okay and the reason why I'm saying

00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:09.780
all this is because I feel like this is

00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:12.660
like a new this is like a this is like a

00:57:12.660 --> 00:57:14.900
new kind of like

00:57:14.900 --> 00:57:18.240
exactive evolutionary human kind of like

00:57:18.240 --> 00:57:19.680
skill

00:57:19.680 --> 00:57:23.339
or capacity and my sense is like this is

00:57:23.339 --> 00:57:25.020
just something that is not really kind

00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:27.780
of up to us even in our lifetimes like

00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:30.599
in our temporal lifetime to like Master

00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.940
but I can feel like the intimations of

00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:34.260
that being possible and it's already

00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:35.880
showing up in our culture and in our

00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:37.380
media and the way that we still tell

00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:39.420
stories and that will kind of like

00:57:39.420 --> 00:57:41.940
reinforce that loop again and like allow

00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.880
us to know how to move like spiders and

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.740
higher dimensional spaces like that kind

00:57:46.740 --> 00:57:47.700
of thing

00:57:47.700 --> 00:57:49.859
but I think right now I'm like

00:57:49.859 --> 00:57:52.040
how do you actually

00:57:52.040 --> 00:57:54.599
create spaces for people to really

00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.460
radically experiment with that these

00:57:56.460 --> 00:57:57.599
capacities

00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:59.760
like two yeah maybe we start a dance

00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:01.920
studio together who knows but it's like

00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:03.480
at this point we kind of need to like

00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.000
throw ourselves in and kind of like

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.640
just do just do the weird thing like do

00:58:08.640 --> 00:58:09.780
the weird thing that you wouldn't

00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:12.240
normally do and then see what opens up

00:58:12.240 --> 00:58:13.559
um

00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:15.960
yeah

00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.240
that one small layer on that I think the

00:58:18.240 --> 00:58:19.500
other key point in these spider so

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:20.640
you're because you're right Spiderman's

00:58:20.640 --> 00:58:22.140
like flying around space you've got the

00:58:22.140 --> 00:58:23.099
other body but I think what's

00:58:23.099 --> 00:58:25.200
interesting about the new Spider-Man and

00:58:25.200 --> 00:58:26.520
we talk about this a lot like in the

00:58:26.520 --> 00:58:27.720
Rick and mortys and all the various

00:58:27.720 --> 00:58:29.040
things that are experimenting with like

00:58:29.040 --> 00:58:32.339
Multiverse ontologies is that now if we

00:58:32.339 --> 00:58:33.420
think just about our geometric

00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:35.040
imagination it's adding a layer to our

00:58:35.040 --> 00:58:37.680
geometric imagination of um

00:58:37.680 --> 00:58:39.839
uh the discrete with the continuous so

00:58:39.839 --> 00:58:42.240
if while Spider-Man is in a particular

00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:44.460
Universe their emotions are continuous

00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:45.900
like I can just move over here I can

00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:47.040
move over there I can rotate this way

00:58:47.040 --> 00:58:48.059
I've got like you know these are the

00:58:48.059 --> 00:58:49.200
dimensions which I can do I can shoot a

00:58:49.200 --> 00:58:50.640
web over there and swing but like I'm

00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:52.680
not you know teleporting

00:58:52.680 --> 00:58:55.559
um and then in the kind of emerging

00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.720
Multiverse ontologies there's this extra

00:58:57.720 --> 00:58:59.760
move which is not just which is not

00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:01.200
continuous but it's in fact discrete

00:59:01.200 --> 00:59:03.359
where you know you don't like slowly

00:59:03.359 --> 00:59:07.380
fade from one you know from like

00:59:07.380 --> 00:59:09.059
um Spider-Man to like manga Spider-Man

00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:10.920
universe with this like continuous

00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:12.660
transition you like go through as

00:59:12.660 --> 00:59:13.920
something and boom you're in this other

00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:15.359
space and in that other space you're

00:59:15.359 --> 00:59:17.220
also navigating 3D but maybe it works a

00:59:17.220 --> 00:59:18.180
little differently because it's like you

00:59:18.180 --> 00:59:19.380
know maybe it's more flat in that world

00:59:19.380 --> 00:59:22.440
because it's the manga world or whatever

00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:23.700
um and so

00:59:23.700 --> 00:59:25.079
maybe that you're talking about

00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:28.500
accepting maybe we are starting to be

00:59:28.500 --> 00:59:29.880
more comfortable

00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:32.099
in our mathematical imagination and in

00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:33.599
our what I mean is in our embodied

00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:36.839
mathematic mathematical imagination with

00:59:36.839 --> 00:59:38.819
the combination of the continuous

00:59:38.819 --> 00:59:41.040
mathematics of the three space which we

00:59:41.040 --> 00:59:42.299
normally operate and the discrete

00:59:42.299 --> 00:59:44.420
mathematics of sort of phase transition

00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:47.339
and and what's interesting about that is

00:59:47.339 --> 00:59:48.900
that that move actually from switching

00:59:48.900 --> 00:59:50.040
from one coordinate system to another

00:59:50.040 --> 00:59:53.220
switching from this temporal description

00:59:53.220 --> 00:59:54.900
of sound to the frequency description of

00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:56.700
sound switching from the

00:59:56.700 --> 00:59:57.660
three-dimensional description of the

00:59:57.660 --> 00:59:59.160
body of the 72 dimensional description

00:59:59.160 --> 01:00:00.720
of the body those are kind of discrete

01:00:00.720 --> 01:00:02.520
jumps you can't kind of like smoothly

01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:04.140
well it sort of are some ways you can

01:00:04.140 --> 01:00:05.700
but generally let's just say you can't

01:00:05.700 --> 01:00:07.920
really smoothly move from one way to one

01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.540
to the other but it's like you kind of

01:00:09.540 --> 01:00:11.400
drop one and you drop into the universe

01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:12.780
or the other one and now suddenly you're

01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:15.240
navigating in this other spider realm

01:00:15.240 --> 01:00:16.619
and so maybe that's something we're

01:00:16.619 --> 01:00:18.420
becoming more comfortable within our

01:00:18.420 --> 01:00:20.720
culture

01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:27.720
uh something about the Spider-Man

01:00:27.720 --> 01:00:30.480
metaphor where Spider-Man is you know

01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:32.760
bitten by a radioactive spider and it he

01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:35.760
transforms into this new creature

01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.460
this new hybrid that can that has these

01:00:38.460 --> 01:00:40.799
abilities to see from different

01:00:40.799 --> 01:00:44.160
perspectives and do different things

01:00:44.160 --> 01:00:46.020
and

01:00:46.020 --> 01:00:47.700
and

01:00:47.700 --> 01:00:49.680
but And yet when the story of Spider-Man

01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:52.619
is told it's still told in the

01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:54.900
in the sort of the justification scheme

01:00:54.900 --> 01:00:56.460
of good versus evil or something like

01:00:56.460 --> 01:00:58.440
that there's a there's a narrative

01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.119
structure there that we're familiar with

01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.400
that kind of and I haven't seen the new

01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:03.599
movie but

01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:05.900
I suspect there's still there's probably

01:01:05.900 --> 01:01:11.400
yeah so but you know what if like what

01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.440
what we're becoming and what's happening

01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:15.839
in the transfer in the sort of that's

01:01:15.839 --> 01:01:17.700
the metaphor for the transformation but

01:01:17.700 --> 01:01:19.680
what is actually transforming is

01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:22.559
something that we can't know

01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:26.700
and that it doesn't necessarily fit the

01:01:26.700 --> 01:01:29.640
traditional justification schemes of say

01:01:29.640 --> 01:01:31.140
good versus evil in the narrative

01:01:31.140 --> 01:01:33.599
structures that we're used to

01:01:33.599 --> 01:01:35.819
so that we really don't have a Target

01:01:35.819 --> 01:01:39.119
not only do we not have the

01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.420
traditional skills or that we're used to

01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:45.119
to navigate to triangulate

01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:47.940
as the astronauts didn't have access to

01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:51.059
we don't we can't even really see the

01:01:51.059 --> 01:01:53.579
object that we're trying to navigate to

01:01:53.579 --> 01:01:55.559
In This dimension

01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:58.680
it's like it's it's behind sort of the

01:01:58.680 --> 01:01:59.760
veil of

01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:02.900
you know yes there's potentially this

01:02:02.900 --> 01:02:06.119
isomorphic relationship to it and we can

01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:09.059
sense it or Intuit it somehow but

01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:11.940
there's something that we're going to

01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:13.260
and

01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:15.540
perhaps it's something like a narrative

01:02:15.540 --> 01:02:19.200
that makes sense across deep time

01:02:19.200 --> 01:02:21.240
and that you kind of have to have a deep

01:02:21.240 --> 01:02:22.520
time

01:02:22.520 --> 01:02:24.359
perspectival

01:02:24.359 --> 01:02:26.339
appreciation

01:02:26.339 --> 01:02:29.180
which is you know kind of eagleless

01:02:29.180 --> 01:02:33.299
uh or that applies the ego Beyond you

01:02:33.299 --> 01:02:34.980
know more like to the species level or

01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:37.079
to the the survival of Consciousness

01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:39.900
across deep time or something like that

01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:41.940
that that's actually what maybe what

01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:45.619
we're intuiting is something that's

01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:49.559
that we can't really say what it is and

01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:52.740
and yet we have we can develop a sense

01:02:52.740 --> 01:02:56.480
of the direction to move towards it

01:02:59.819 --> 01:03:00.900
back

01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:03.540
I'm going to even make a more drastic

01:03:03.540 --> 01:03:05.640
plane

01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:08.720
um and that is that

01:03:08.720 --> 01:03:12.240
once we can understand

01:03:12.240 --> 01:03:14.220
the relationship to let's say pure

01:03:14.220 --> 01:03:15.839
abstractions I call them pure because

01:03:15.839 --> 01:03:17.520
they're not like Galaxy brain

01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:19.380
abstractions they're just

01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:21.660
buzzing off into

01:03:21.660 --> 01:03:23.819
you know compounding knowledge we get a

01:03:23.819 --> 01:03:25.740
theory and then we make a theory around

01:03:25.740 --> 01:03:29.280
the theory and and it's just it's just

01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:30.839
abstractions pointing to other

01:03:30.839 --> 01:03:32.099
abstractions so I call them pure

01:03:32.099 --> 01:03:36.059
abstractions so there's a move here that

01:03:36.059 --> 01:03:38.540
pure abstractions are action protocols

01:03:38.540 --> 01:03:42.780
and and I think that we can if we could

01:03:42.780 --> 01:03:45.599
understand what robust action Protocols

01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:48.420
are we can use them

01:03:48.420 --> 01:03:51.780
and have faith that they will bring us

01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:53.819
to things that are hidden in plain sight

01:03:53.819 --> 01:03:57.119
so let me say what I mean by that and

01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:58.799
one's more metaphorical than the other

01:03:58.799 --> 01:04:01.559
so the metaphorical one is when you are

01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.200
describing the new Spiderman

01:04:04.200 --> 01:04:06.180
and I love the fact that there is this

01:04:06.180 --> 01:04:09.660
discreteness between Realms let's say

01:04:09.660 --> 01:04:11.640
um yeah you're either working in 2D or

01:04:11.640 --> 01:04:14.520
3D like I took an AutoCAD Course once

01:04:14.520 --> 01:04:16.980
and I was horrible at it because you're

01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:19.859
drawing in 2D and the thing kept on

01:04:19.859 --> 01:04:22.859
switching into 3D like and I'm like

01:04:22.859 --> 01:04:26.819
which way is up and which way is like my

01:04:26.819 --> 01:04:29.819
my experience was constantly like Necker

01:04:29.819 --> 01:04:32.579
QB and I would I just couldn't keep

01:04:32.579 --> 01:04:35.579
track of the thing

01:04:35.579 --> 01:04:37.859
um and so this is like a mine that

01:04:37.859 --> 01:04:40.079
switches but it but you couldn't be in

01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.359
both you know it's not it's yeah you're

01:04:42.359 --> 01:04:44.940
either in one or the other

01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:48.720
um so but the Spiderman thing is

01:04:48.720 --> 01:04:50.780
um

01:04:51.299 --> 01:04:54.680
so these these movies have a certain

01:04:54.680 --> 01:04:58.020
intuition that they're playing with and

01:04:58.020 --> 01:05:00.839
so that they have a story and it's an uh

01:05:00.839 --> 01:05:02.760
interception was the same thing there's

01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:04.319
some kind of

01:05:04.319 --> 01:05:06.720
message in there that maybe they don't

01:05:06.720 --> 01:05:08.700
even know you know it's not a political

01:05:08.700 --> 01:05:10.859
message like don't look up there's

01:05:10.859 --> 01:05:13.980
there's different kind of mind uh going

01:05:13.980 --> 01:05:16.380
on here and so when you were talking

01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:18.720
about how he was

01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:21.839
uh using his body in the in the skills

01:05:21.839 --> 01:05:25.799
he had to me this was why in business we

01:05:25.799 --> 01:05:27.839
were so successful because everybody and

01:05:27.839 --> 01:05:29.339
it's like that Mouse in the Maze

01:05:29.339 --> 01:05:32.400
everybody was always like adapting

01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:37.140
to the obstacles and the trends and the

01:05:37.140 --> 01:05:38.700
pressures that everyone else was

01:05:38.700 --> 01:05:40.920
adapting to and that's like the walls of

01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:42.720
the Maze and I'm like

01:05:42.720 --> 01:05:45.000
this is information that is telling us

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.700
those things already don't matter

01:05:47.700 --> 01:05:51.059
what is it that is not there that we

01:05:51.059 --> 01:05:52.980
can't see or they're not there at the

01:05:52.980 --> 01:05:56.040
same time so the pace that Society moves

01:05:56.040 --> 01:05:58.260
today nothing on social media should be

01:05:58.260 --> 01:05:59.880
of interest to you

01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:02.700
it's all it's it's and the point is it's

01:06:02.700 --> 01:06:05.339
telling you this is already obsolete if

01:06:05.339 --> 01:06:08.040
it can be explicated it's obsolete if

01:06:08.040 --> 01:06:10.260
you want to be on the Leading Edge if it

01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:13.260
can be explicated it's obsolete

01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:15.059
so

01:06:15.059 --> 01:06:15.900
um

01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:17.700
um so that's one thing you're you're

01:06:17.700 --> 01:06:20.760
you're not that interested and you know

01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:22.079
I say this all the time I'm not

01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:23.880
interested in that I'm not interested in

01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:25.740
the whole fields of

01:06:25.740 --> 01:06:27.900
studying liminal web it's just not

01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:29.940
interesting to me it's already seems

01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:32.700
beyond the point so now that doesn't

01:06:32.700 --> 01:06:34.920
mean you automatically see what's coming

01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:37.319
but what if we could have a theory of

01:06:37.319 --> 01:06:40.440
action protocols that could get you

01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.079
there so you don't you don't work with

01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:46.619
narrative and you don't work with uh

01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:49.740
conjecture you iterate of what I call a

01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:52.200
robust action protocol and I'll give you

01:06:52.200 --> 01:06:54.740
an example

01:06:55.079 --> 01:06:58.680
um so you're lost in the woods okay and

01:06:58.680 --> 01:07:01.619
you have an old map it's really old it's

01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:03.680
like 22 years old it's like one of these

01:07:03.680 --> 01:07:07.140
hiking Road Trail route Maps

01:07:07.140 --> 01:07:10.260
and if you don't know it's old it's

01:07:10.260 --> 01:07:12.539
worse than not having a map at all

01:07:12.539 --> 01:07:13.980
because you'll just run around in

01:07:13.980 --> 01:07:15.660
circles looking for the lake they're

01:07:15.660 --> 01:07:17.700
looking for the trail or whatever and

01:07:17.700 --> 01:07:20.940
they're not there anymore okay so that's

01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:23.700
rule-based uh

01:07:23.700 --> 01:07:27.599
um protocol rule based it's it depends

01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.539
upon continuity of information over time

01:07:30.539 --> 01:07:33.119
information changes too fast okay

01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:36.000
but let's say I have a map and I know

01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:37.500
it's old

01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:41.400
well I can do this very complex systems

01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:42.900
analysis

01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:45.660
protocol where I say oh

01:07:45.660 --> 01:07:49.020
there's a there's a beaver pond here but

01:07:49.020 --> 01:07:51.539
this is an old Mac see those red Maples

01:07:51.539 --> 01:07:54.299
they grow where old Beaver ponds are and

01:07:54.299 --> 01:07:57.200
I could do all this analysis translating

01:07:57.200 --> 01:08:01.020
into complex systems thinking this big

01:08:01.020 --> 01:08:03.420
story so I know where I am and make this

01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:05.460
map relevant this is where most people

01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:07.500
are today the schmatten burgers of the

01:08:07.500 --> 01:08:08.460
world

01:08:08.460 --> 01:08:12.180
big huge complex trends

01:08:12.180 --> 01:08:15.420
rating of history and stuff like that

01:08:15.420 --> 01:08:19.319
it's it's robust but it's very unwieldy

01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:20.640
okay

01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:23.100
then I could use an action protocol I

01:08:23.100 --> 01:08:26.219
could say what if I follow this stream

01:08:26.219 --> 01:08:30.060
okay now if I if I say let it what if I

01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:31.980
follow this stream and I always keep the

01:08:31.980 --> 01:08:33.719
stream to my right

01:08:33.719 --> 01:08:36.120
well you can get in a clan shell and

01:08:36.120 --> 01:08:39.299
actually get confused but a robust

01:08:39.299 --> 01:08:41.640
action protocol would be what if I

01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:45.480
always followed this string Upstream

01:08:45.480 --> 01:08:47.940
or what if I always follow this stream

01:08:47.940 --> 01:08:50.460
Downstream so this would be an action

01:08:50.460 --> 01:08:52.199
protocol it doesn't tell you where you

01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:54.060
are it doesn't tell you where you are

01:08:54.060 --> 01:08:55.980
relative to you want to be it doesn't

01:08:55.980 --> 01:08:57.900
tell you where you're going but if you

01:08:57.900 --> 01:09:00.060
follow it

01:09:00.060 --> 01:09:03.120
it's successful so that's what I mean by

01:09:03.120 --> 01:09:06.140
an action protocol it's not math per se

01:09:06.140 --> 01:09:09.060
but it's kind of like social science

01:09:09.060 --> 01:09:12.359
math and this is one place we're going

01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:13.920
because you know when we first started

01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:16.500
this course it the actual theory of

01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:18.540
action protocols and complex potential

01:09:18.540 --> 01:09:21.900
systems are the two uh theories we're

01:09:21.900 --> 01:09:24.660
going to use and so somehow that's what

01:09:24.660 --> 01:09:26.699
Xavier is saying you know what if I

01:09:26.699 --> 01:09:30.719
follow this idea of 72 Dimensions you

01:09:30.719 --> 01:09:32.339
don't really know where it's taken to

01:09:32.339 --> 01:09:34.739
you but you know it's rather robust

01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:38.160
because there's enough like coherence in

01:09:38.160 --> 01:09:40.440
it and so

01:09:40.440 --> 01:09:44.160
um this to me is uh

01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:46.560
um very similar to a lot of way young

01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:48.960
people in in like your community a

01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:50.880
certain age people grown up with

01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:53.100
computers they're doing something like

01:09:53.100 --> 01:09:55.140
this they got a hint about following a

01:09:55.140 --> 01:09:56.540
certain

01:09:56.540 --> 01:09:59.520
complex pattern or I call them action

01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:02.040
protocol so this is this is exactly what

01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:03.600
the agile

01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:05.880
people who created the agile Manifesto

01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:09.420
you know they were competing with IBM

01:10:09.420 --> 01:10:11.880
and they had fewer resources and they

01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:13.679
out-competed them and what they

01:10:13.679 --> 01:10:15.540
understood was

01:10:15.540 --> 01:10:18.060
the fact that they were a small group

01:10:18.060 --> 01:10:21.060
who knew each other wasn't the challenge

01:10:21.060 --> 01:10:22.980
everybody's like how could a small group

01:10:22.980 --> 01:10:24.659
who knew each other actually pull us off

01:10:24.659 --> 01:10:27.840
they realized it was the reason why they

01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:29.159
pulled it off

01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:31.800
and that was an action protocol you know

01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:33.960
small working teams where people are

01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:36.540
intimate then they describe intimacy

01:10:36.540 --> 01:10:39.360
what level how how much do you know of

01:10:39.360 --> 01:10:41.100
someone you know their names and who

01:10:41.100 --> 01:10:43.679
their wives are no that's not enough and

01:10:43.679 --> 01:10:46.739
so this became iterative in the uh you

01:10:46.739 --> 01:10:49.260
know became the agile you know scrum in

01:10:49.260 --> 01:10:52.800
these rituals so this this became uh

01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:55.320
so that was the first instance of people

01:10:55.320 --> 01:10:57.480
actually just committing to action

01:10:57.480 --> 01:10:59.880
protocols that they discovered rather

01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:02.460
than some of these other kinds of

01:11:02.460 --> 01:11:05.880
formulations for social change

01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:08.940
um so all of that is in this territory I

01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:11.219
know this is more like Roofing but it's

01:11:11.219 --> 01:11:15.679
not really it's pretty unwieldy Holly

01:11:17.580 --> 01:11:19.739
yeah I just wanted to share

01:11:19.739 --> 01:11:22.080
um an experience that yesterday and just

01:11:22.080 --> 01:11:24.239
gratitude for this course content

01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:27.179
because it it prompted me to kind of

01:11:27.179 --> 01:11:29.340
think about things in a different way

01:11:29.340 --> 01:11:31.860
but um came across this like massive

01:11:31.860 --> 01:11:33.360
fire ant pile

01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:35.100
and all these firings are coming out and

01:11:35.100 --> 01:11:37.080
it's just chaos you know just

01:11:37.080 --> 01:11:39.239
they're kind of it looks like chaos on

01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:41.100
the outside and they're they're just

01:11:41.100 --> 01:11:44.580
swarming um around each other and um

01:11:44.580 --> 01:11:46.679
because of this this course content I

01:11:46.679 --> 01:11:48.420
was like well what's the what's the

01:11:48.420 --> 01:11:50.280
geometry here like what's the pattern

01:11:50.280 --> 01:11:51.900
that's being made

01:11:51.900 --> 01:11:55.860
and and then what that also then made me

01:11:55.860 --> 01:11:58.440
think about was how they sense into the

01:11:58.440 --> 01:12:00.120
world like they're not

01:12:00.120 --> 01:12:03.840
from what I understand ants ants move on

01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.300
from hormones like so then it puts me

01:12:06.300 --> 01:12:08.520
into a space where what would it be like

01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:10.739
to smell my way through the world and

01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:12.600
what pattern are they detecting that my

01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:14.340
this instrument

01:12:14.340 --> 01:12:18.239
isn't isn't able to compute

01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:19.920
um and then part of that's really you

01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:22.080
know it's like because also a lot of

01:12:22.080 --> 01:12:25.980
what I'm hearing is is this humility of

01:12:25.980 --> 01:12:28.679
um you know I think about zero as a

01:12:28.679 --> 01:12:30.860
representation or an archetype of

01:12:30.860 --> 01:12:34.320
possibility of um kind of erasing all

01:12:34.320 --> 01:12:36.300
assumptions and just pure possibility

01:12:36.300 --> 01:12:38.219
coming through

01:12:38.219 --> 01:12:41.219
um and so a lot of it also has to do

01:12:41.219 --> 01:12:44.460
with like again like uh going to zero

01:12:44.460 --> 01:12:45.960
going to zero with my assumptions with

01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:48.600
my justification system

01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.179
um so that I can I can something

01:12:51.179 --> 01:12:53.820
something can be revealed

01:12:53.820 --> 01:12:56.760
um and I think part of also what I took

01:12:56.760 --> 01:12:57.780
away from that I mean I couldn't

01:12:57.780 --> 01:13:00.540
identify like the pattern you know I I

01:13:00.540 --> 01:13:02.820
still was too limited but I knew that it

01:13:02.820 --> 01:13:04.679
was like these ants this is not

01:13:04.679 --> 01:13:06.360
meaningless like they do this every

01:13:06.360 --> 01:13:08.219
 day like this is they're

01:13:08.219 --> 01:13:09.960
efficient like this is

01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:12.120
they're they're um they're doing

01:13:12.120 --> 01:13:13.980
something here

01:13:13.980 --> 01:13:15.480
um

01:13:15.480 --> 01:13:17.580
um but part of it too was like this

01:13:17.580 --> 01:13:21.540
beautiful invitation for me to go into a

01:13:21.540 --> 01:13:23.100
part of myself or to look at the world

01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:24.840
in a different way and that that's kind

01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:27.420
of what it feels like it means to be

01:13:27.420 --> 01:13:29.699
humanist or what feels good about being

01:13:29.699 --> 01:13:31.020
humans trying to take as many

01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:33.360
perspectives as we can

01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:36.120
um of of what it is to be alive like

01:13:36.120 --> 01:13:38.280
what nature is

01:13:38.280 --> 01:13:42.380
um so yeah I just want to share that

01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:56.940
so I've been hanging around with

01:13:56.940 --> 01:13:59.699
a group of my grandchildren that range

01:13:59.699 --> 01:14:02.820
from like 5 to 15.

01:14:02.820 --> 01:14:06.300
and when I you know when I listened to

01:14:06.300 --> 01:14:08.400
Cheryl and Xavier

01:14:08.400 --> 01:14:11.159
talking about Spider-Man and this is

01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:13.380
this is where these kids live they're

01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:16.500
like totally they know every

01:14:16.500 --> 01:14:21.140
nuance and detail of origin stories and

01:14:21.140 --> 01:14:24.780
how who's got the power and where where

01:14:24.780 --> 01:14:28.320
the power is and how how the movement

01:14:28.320 --> 01:14:30.480
goes and they they

01:14:30.480 --> 01:14:33.360
you know they move in that way as best

01:14:33.360 --> 01:14:34.800
they can

01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:37.320
with their bodies

01:14:37.320 --> 01:14:40.560
and one of the things Bonnie sent you

01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:43.860
sort of put forth the idea that they are

01:14:43.860 --> 01:14:48.000
this they are our organs of perception

01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:51.360
um I've just been fascinated to see

01:14:51.360 --> 01:14:54.960
what's evolving and developing

01:14:54.960 --> 01:15:00.179
in their body mind perceptual space

01:15:00.179 --> 01:15:04.679
one of the things was they have this app

01:15:04.679 --> 01:15:07.679
where they can make slime

01:15:07.679 --> 01:15:11.219
so they they can design the Slime they

01:15:11.219 --> 01:15:14.640
can the color the whether it's got like

01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:17.159
a confetti like texture whether it's

01:15:17.159 --> 01:15:21.000
gritty and then they'll say nana feel

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:22.260
this

01:15:22.260 --> 01:15:24.360
and I'm like you know and and they'll

01:15:24.360 --> 01:15:26.640
rub their hands on the screen and it'll

01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:29.040
make a noise like a crinkly noise or

01:15:29.040 --> 01:15:32.880
like a like a slimy noise

01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:35.159
and they are literally and then they'll

01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:37.199
go smell this

01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:39.540
and they are literally having the

01:15:39.540 --> 01:15:44.480
experience of that sensory connection so

01:15:44.480 --> 01:15:47.100
I you know from

01:15:47.100 --> 01:15:49.679
what what you've all been saying I can

01:15:49.679 --> 01:15:50.940
sort of

01:15:50.940 --> 01:15:55.140
sense even more that thing that

01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:57.840
is there but isn't there for us to see

01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:00.600
that we may be moving toward and I'm

01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:04.400
totally encouraged by it

01:16:18.679 --> 01:16:21.540
cross-modal synesthesia if they want

01:16:21.540 --> 01:16:24.239
babies with snots they would not be able

01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:26.760
to make the connections so thank God all

01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:29.880
ladies have snots therefore they can

01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:33.199
play with slime

01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:53.820
I mean I think what we need is more

01:16:53.820 --> 01:16:55.679
educational institutions that know what

01:16:55.679 --> 01:16:58.679
to do with this you know

01:16:58.679 --> 01:17:00.840
um and

01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:03.659
um and so

01:17:03.659 --> 01:17:04.920
um

01:17:04.920 --> 01:17:07.199
you know there's to me I've said this

01:17:07.199 --> 01:17:08.699
before that

01:17:08.699 --> 01:17:11.640
um we don't need people to kids to store

01:17:11.640 --> 01:17:15.060
information anymore that's ridiculous or

01:17:15.060 --> 01:17:17.280
it's a compound knowledge you get these

01:17:17.280 --> 01:17:19.440
college essays that don't mean anything

01:17:19.440 --> 01:17:22.260
because that's the whole trajectory but

01:17:22.260 --> 01:17:25.679
what we need to do is understand the

01:17:25.679 --> 01:17:29.000
body and its relation to abstractions

01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:30.719
and

01:17:30.719 --> 01:17:33.900
um and um

01:17:33.900 --> 01:17:35.699
the ability for children to create

01:17:35.699 --> 01:17:37.800
hypothetical environments all this stuff

01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:39.239
we've been talking about

01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:41.520
these are the natural intelligences we

01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:46.199
need to support in Rich environments and

01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:50.219
um and also uh we need you know right

01:17:50.219 --> 01:17:52.860
now the way we teach is we teach facts

01:17:52.860 --> 01:17:55.440
but we need to teach children how to

01:17:55.440 --> 01:17:57.480
develop counterfactuals

01:17:57.480 --> 01:18:00.780
so this stands all education really

01:18:00.780 --> 01:18:03.120
needs I mean these are not ease these

01:18:03.120 --> 01:18:06.420
are not difficult changes to make uh um

01:18:06.420 --> 01:18:09.360
uh in theory but the social institutions

01:18:09.360 --> 01:18:11.520
are so backwards that they're hard to

01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:14.340
Institute in society but there's all

01:18:14.340 --> 01:18:18.780
this potential and this is also what I

01:18:18.780 --> 01:18:22.140
wrote in my and I and I presented to

01:18:22.140 --> 01:18:24.960
Keegan what was the the danger of

01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:27.480
Developmental stage theory is it cannot

01:18:27.480 --> 01:18:29.760
predict these other pipelines it will

01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:34.980
they will seem as deviant or or slow

01:18:34.980 --> 01:18:37.020
other than people who are born

01:18:37.020 --> 01:18:39.840
mathematical Geniuses people as or

01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:42.060
prodigies but whole generations of

01:18:42.060 --> 01:18:44.460
children who are developing these new

01:18:44.460 --> 01:18:46.320
affordances

01:18:46.320 --> 01:18:50.280
um they're not interested in

01:18:50.280 --> 01:18:52.620
um regular school and they look deviant

01:18:52.620 --> 01:18:55.080
or slow so

01:18:55.080 --> 01:18:57.540
um and and so this is a kind of a leap

01:18:57.540 --> 01:19:00.179
right it's not just a slow development

01:19:00.179 --> 01:19:03.860
of Consciousness over time

01:19:04.860 --> 01:19:06.840
yeah

01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:08.880
they work in order they work best in

01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:10.860
organizations because organizations

01:19:10.860 --> 01:19:12.420
still

01:19:12.420 --> 01:19:15.719
um what is it called promote in that

01:19:15.719 --> 01:19:18.900
same stepwise pattern they don't work in

01:19:18.900 --> 01:19:21.920
the real world and they don't work in in

01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:25.520
cross-generationally for sure

01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:35.400
I'm present I love the story Sandra that

01:19:35.400 --> 01:19:38.640
you shared about your grandchildren with

01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:40.020
the slime

01:19:40.020 --> 01:19:41.340
I

01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:43.020
it's kind of an embarrassing story but

01:19:43.020 --> 01:19:44.940
for some I think I have kind of like

01:19:44.940 --> 01:19:48.360
ASMR tingles like there's something

01:19:48.360 --> 01:19:50.219
so I remember I went through this phase

01:19:50.219 --> 01:19:53.219
when I was like maybe five six years ago

01:19:53.219 --> 01:19:55.560
where I was watching slime videos on

01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:57.179
YouTube and finding them very soothing

01:19:57.179 --> 01:19:59.640
just watching people like play with

01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:01.980
slime and I wasn't having the direct

01:20:01.980 --> 01:20:05.040
experience but it was having that

01:20:05.040 --> 01:20:08.880
um ASMR experience

01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:10.199
but something that was like coming up

01:20:10.199 --> 01:20:11.760
for me is like

01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:14.400
what so when they're playing I wanted to

01:20:14.400 --> 01:20:16.679
almost like I could feel them being so

01:20:16.679 --> 01:20:19.800
excited to show you and let you smell

01:20:19.800 --> 01:20:21.780
the screen of the Slime and there's like

01:20:21.780 --> 01:20:23.100
something that's like so vivid about

01:20:23.100 --> 01:20:24.659
their imagination and how they're

01:20:24.659 --> 01:20:27.120
allowing that slime to be real to them

01:20:27.120 --> 01:20:28.739
and then I almost wanted to like

01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:31.679
continue seeing that

01:20:31.679 --> 01:20:34.260
um story where they then play with real

01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:36.780
slime it's like and then they're like

01:20:36.780 --> 01:20:38.760
actually playing with slime and they're

01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:40.380
outside and they're on the grass and

01:20:40.380 --> 01:20:41.880
they're and they're like handing you

01:20:41.880 --> 01:20:43.560
slime and you're playing with that slime

01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:46.560
and you're smelling that slime together

01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:49.199
and to not create like a

01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:52.380
binary of better or worse or more real

01:20:52.380 --> 01:20:54.540
and less real between the two but to

01:20:54.540 --> 01:20:57.739
really see it as like different ways of

01:20:57.739 --> 01:21:00.239
engaging the world

01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:02.820
um because there is like a beauty to the

01:21:02.820 --> 01:21:05.040
fact that they are able to

01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:07.920
yeah feel slime in that way even though

01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:10.980
it's not like physical

01:21:10.980 --> 01:21:12.840
and I yeah I think something that was

01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.540
just to kind of take this a little bit

01:21:15.540 --> 01:21:18.060
further in the last part of the

01:21:18.060 --> 01:21:19.980
s like the

01:21:19.980 --> 01:21:22.020
um course content I can't remember

01:21:22.020 --> 01:21:24.120
exactly where but I think there was

01:21:24.120 --> 01:21:26.219
something around like as we have more of

01:21:26.219 --> 01:21:28.320
these augmented reality or virtual

01:21:28.320 --> 01:21:30.900
reality tools

01:21:30.900 --> 01:21:33.360
they are going to like afford us more of

01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:34.920
this like fourth dimension

01:21:34.920 --> 01:21:37.860
four-dimensional higher dimensional

01:21:37.860 --> 01:21:41.400
um perceptual capacity but it's going to

01:21:41.400 --> 01:21:43.320
be like there's something in I guess

01:21:43.320 --> 01:21:45.320
like the

01:21:45.320 --> 01:21:47.580
affording architecture of these

01:21:47.580 --> 01:21:49.380
Technologies right now where it makes it

01:21:49.380 --> 01:21:51.300
very easy to think that

01:21:51.300 --> 01:21:54.659
that is the reality like that is like to

01:21:54.659 --> 01:21:57.060
replace this the Slime like this like

01:21:57.060 --> 01:21:59.159
really fun experience with virtual slime

01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.560
with like real slime and assume that

01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:03.360
those are the same thing but it's like

01:22:03.360 --> 01:22:06.540
really not the same thing at all

01:22:06.540 --> 01:22:07.560
um

01:22:07.560 --> 01:22:10.980
and I find that yeah like in that

01:22:10.980 --> 01:22:14.120
like how do we

01:22:15.659 --> 01:22:17.280
I'm just yeah I think I'm just thinking

01:22:17.280 --> 01:22:19.020
a lot about

01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:21.120
how much how much we have to

01:22:21.120 --> 01:22:24.420
intentionally architect and Design

01:22:24.420 --> 01:22:26.699
what we're building right now especially

01:22:26.699 --> 01:22:29.460
for Mass consumption in a way that like

01:22:29.460 --> 01:22:31.320
really needs to

01:22:31.320 --> 01:22:34.199
highlight it's like it needs to presence

01:22:34.199 --> 01:22:36.060
forth this

01:22:36.060 --> 01:22:38.040
sense of like yes maybe you're you're

01:22:38.040 --> 01:22:39.659
making you're working with virtual slime

01:22:39.659 --> 01:22:41.100
and your VR goggles and that's

01:22:41.100 --> 01:22:43.260
delightful but then like what if it also

01:22:43.260 --> 01:22:45.060
encourages you in some way to like then

01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:47.699
engage with like real slime like you're

01:22:47.699 --> 01:22:49.260
interacting with someone and you're

01:22:49.260 --> 01:22:51.120
feeling like yeah I think there's just

01:22:51.120 --> 01:22:53.340
something around that where

01:22:53.340 --> 01:22:55.739
feeling into like the full

01:22:55.739 --> 01:22:58.620
the fullness and like um

01:22:58.620 --> 01:23:00.600
possibilities of Human Experience

01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:02.420
between

01:23:02.420 --> 01:23:04.679
all of these

01:23:04.679 --> 01:23:06.960
virtual not virtual whatever whatever

01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:10.320
lines we delineate around like the

01:23:10.320 --> 01:23:12.780
um discrete I guess planes of reality we

01:23:12.780 --> 01:23:14.280
can access

01:23:14.280 --> 01:23:16.080
I think like the design of the

01:23:16.080 --> 01:23:19.800
in-between spaces are really important

01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:23.280
just so you know we we make real slime

01:23:23.280 --> 01:23:27.179
with contact lens fluids shaving cream

01:23:27.179 --> 01:23:30.239
and some other I forgot what else in

01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:34.020
color and it's gross and disgusting but

01:23:34.020 --> 01:23:37.800
it's but it is that actual tactile

01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:41.520
experience that you're talking about and

01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:42.060
um

01:23:42.060 --> 01:23:46.040
and I do notice uh

01:23:46.040 --> 01:23:49.739
this the theory of causality that they

01:23:49.739 --> 01:23:52.739
have is

01:23:52.739 --> 01:23:56.000
I feel a little nervous when I

01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:58.800
relate to their theory of causality

01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:01.140
because

01:24:01.140 --> 01:24:04.340
the idea that

01:24:04.340 --> 01:24:08.760
sort of the co-varying between my body

01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.280
and a character's body

01:24:11.280 --> 01:24:12.960
and the

01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:14.120
um

01:24:14.120 --> 01:24:18.960
the fluidity of identity in in that

01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:21.360
other reality

01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:24.060
I I mean it's just unfamiliar to me or

01:24:24.060 --> 01:24:27.060
I'm I'm watching it with curiosity let's

01:24:27.060 --> 01:24:29.840
put it that way

01:24:32.100 --> 01:24:34.860
I think one thing that came to mind on

01:24:34.860 --> 01:24:36.300
the Slime example

01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:38.280
um just to advocate for you know the

01:24:38.280 --> 01:24:40.380
Nerds out there is is there the third

01:24:40.380 --> 01:24:41.400
perspective which I think we really

01:24:41.400 --> 01:24:43.560
there's expect the

01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:45.060
well it was a fourth maybe there's a

01:24:45.060 --> 01:24:46.380
there's the experience of being the

01:24:46.380 --> 01:24:48.719
consumer of virtual slime and

01:24:48.719 --> 01:24:50.580
interacting with the materiality virtual

01:24:50.580 --> 01:24:52.320
slime

01:24:52.320 --> 01:24:53.640
um and then there's the experience of

01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:55.380
being the consumer of real slime

01:24:55.380 --> 01:24:56.640
interacting with it and then you just

01:24:56.640 --> 01:24:58.320
described this maybe third thing which

01:24:58.320 --> 01:25:01.320
is to be the creator of physical slime

01:25:01.320 --> 01:25:02.940
and now suddenly you're thinking about

01:25:02.940 --> 01:25:05.580
oh like what is viscosity if I add a

01:25:05.580 --> 01:25:06.900
little bit more of this it's got this

01:25:06.900 --> 01:25:08.159
different quality I can do this and

01:25:08.159 --> 01:25:09.360
suddenly you're thinking but in this

01:25:09.360 --> 01:25:11.100
totally different way

01:25:11.100 --> 01:25:12.600
um and somebody who does a lot of

01:25:12.600 --> 01:25:14.580
programming and started programming from

01:25:14.580 --> 01:25:16.260
a field called computer Graphics which

01:25:16.260 --> 01:25:18.420
is all about these kinds of things like

01:25:18.420 --> 01:25:20.400
how do I build virtual slime how do I

01:25:20.400 --> 01:25:21.960
simulate the what what's interesting

01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:25.140
when you're doing that is 3D and physics

01:25:25.140 --> 01:25:26.100
and all those things are very not

01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:27.420
naturally in a computer the computer

01:25:27.420 --> 01:25:29.280
doesn't have any easy conception threes

01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:31.380
there's a huge amount of work to try to

01:25:31.380 --> 01:25:33.659
get this like for mathematical formalism

01:25:33.659 --> 01:25:36.719
like turing machine thing to like encode

01:25:36.719 --> 01:25:38.760
enough of our intuitions about how 3D

01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:40.440
space should work such that you can then

01:25:40.440 --> 01:25:41.760
render a thing and it's been like you

01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:43.140
know a major topic of research for the

01:25:43.140 --> 01:25:44.880
last like you know 70 years or whatever

01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:46.380
you know the first Toy Story movie is

01:25:46.380 --> 01:25:49.020
about toys because plastic is a really

01:25:49.020 --> 01:25:50.940
interesting really easy material to

01:25:50.940 --> 01:25:52.679
model if you Graphics light behaves with

01:25:52.679 --> 01:25:55.199
it in a really simple way milk eyeballs

01:25:55.199 --> 01:25:57.540
skin really hard and like a lot much

01:25:57.540 --> 01:25:59.340
more computationally intensive and so it

01:25:59.340 --> 01:26:01.380
took like many years after that for us

01:26:01.380 --> 01:26:02.940
to get to the point of both the

01:26:02.940 --> 01:26:04.920
computers being faster and figuring out

01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:07.380
new approximations of the real world in

01:26:07.380 --> 01:26:09.000
order to be able to do skin and eyeballs

01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:11.580
and all these other things and so all

01:26:11.580 --> 01:26:13.860
that to say you know and it's like maybe

01:26:13.860 --> 01:26:15.060
not everyone's gonna you know there's

01:26:15.060 --> 01:26:16.739
sometimes the like the political stance

01:26:16.739 --> 01:26:18.239
like everyone should learn to code and

01:26:18.239 --> 01:26:19.800
like you know maybe that's not going to

01:26:19.800 --> 01:26:21.719
happen but

01:26:21.719 --> 01:26:24.540
if you're making virtual slime you are

01:26:24.540 --> 01:26:26.280
so engaged with the real world because

01:26:26.280 --> 01:26:28.739
suddenly you're looking at slime in so

01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:29.940
much detail if you're like trying to

01:26:29.940 --> 01:26:31.199
figure out how to build virtual slime

01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:33.600
you're like what is going on here okay

01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:35.219
it seems to do this little funny wiggle

01:26:35.219 --> 01:26:36.480
thing how do I make this do this funny

01:26:36.480 --> 01:26:38.699
though oh it seems to do like it makes a

01:26:38.699 --> 01:26:40.440
gloop noise what's producing that

01:26:40.440 --> 01:26:42.179
glutenoids what's the mathematical

01:26:42.179 --> 01:26:43.980
process that I could write out that

01:26:43.980 --> 01:26:46.320
makes that same goop noise and like once

01:26:46.320 --> 01:26:48.120
so when I like really meaningfully build

01:26:48.120 --> 01:26:49.860
something like I just this kind of like

01:26:49.860 --> 01:26:51.179
my hobby basically just like for fun

01:26:51.179 --> 01:26:52.739
build a little simulator of this or that

01:26:52.739 --> 01:26:53.580
or whatever

01:26:53.580 --> 01:26:55.679
the amounts which I then see that thing

01:26:55.679 --> 01:26:57.480
in the real world is so so rather than

01:26:57.480 --> 01:26:59.400
separating me from it it really brings

01:26:59.400 --> 01:27:01.500
me to the thing and so

01:27:01.500 --> 01:27:03.179
you know maybe not everyone's going to

01:27:03.179 --> 01:27:05.100
code but there is a there is a

01:27:05.100 --> 01:27:06.239
connection with the world that can

01:27:06.239 --> 01:27:07.860
happen through that process if you do

01:27:07.860 --> 01:27:10.199
that actively

01:27:10.199 --> 01:27:13.080
yeah I just want to say

01:27:13.080 --> 01:27:15.179
when I was first started to paint again

01:27:15.179 --> 01:27:18.500
when I tried to

01:27:18.500 --> 01:27:21.420
optimize the right color green

01:27:21.420 --> 01:27:23.120
like like

01:27:23.120 --> 01:27:25.500
Ray's laughing because I wrote an email

01:27:25.500 --> 01:27:27.239
to him like what's up what's up with

01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:29.580
green and he's like oh yeah you know

01:27:29.580 --> 01:27:32.520
this is a stage I guess stage in life's

01:27:32.520 --> 01:27:35.520
path because the other colors

01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:38.040
you can work with and then it's just

01:27:38.040 --> 01:27:40.080
almost I don't know maybe it's almost

01:27:40.080 --> 01:27:42.540
impossible to work with green like it's

01:27:42.540 --> 01:27:44.940
so dependent upon the context in which

01:27:44.940 --> 01:27:47.580
you place it and you and you see it's

01:27:47.580 --> 01:27:50.340
perfect here and then and then how much

01:27:50.340 --> 01:27:54.120
it covers it it's like so green is so I

01:27:54.120 --> 01:27:55.620
don't know he didn't answer me you know

01:27:55.620 --> 01:27:58.679
he's like he's like the same I asked

01:27:58.679 --> 01:28:00.659
shins and young questions and he says

01:28:00.659 --> 01:28:02.760
just keep practicing I asked Ray and

01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:04.560
he's like oh yeah the green thing you

01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:05.940
know I guess there's no real answer

01:28:05.940 --> 01:28:08.820
except practice but it's the same thing

01:28:08.820 --> 01:28:11.040
you could spend of course this is like

01:28:11.040 --> 01:28:13.199
rothko right you spend his whole life

01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:15.600
trying to figure out why did colors do

01:28:15.600 --> 01:28:19.320
this like what is going on at that at

01:28:19.320 --> 01:28:22.020
the interior external interface it's not

01:28:22.020 --> 01:28:24.719
objective or subjective it's this

01:28:24.719 --> 01:28:25.800
dynamic

01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:28.739
uh yeah so

01:28:28.739 --> 01:28:31.020
um I didn't it it's a much simpler

01:28:31.020 --> 01:28:33.300
example but equally complex in some way

01:28:33.300 --> 01:28:36.000
Alex

01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:38.100
and this is awesome I love this

01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:39.360
conversation

01:28:39.360 --> 01:28:40.500
um

01:28:40.500 --> 01:28:42.179
this

01:28:42.179 --> 01:28:44.820
idea of Designing

01:28:44.820 --> 01:28:48.120
to evoke participatory knowing

01:28:48.120 --> 01:28:52.080
in a way that sees through the object

01:28:52.080 --> 01:28:54.540
into the sort of the magic of the uh

01:28:54.540 --> 01:28:56.940
behind the object the the thing that's

01:28:56.940 --> 01:29:00.060
about the green the thing that you

01:29:00.060 --> 01:29:03.360
about the the

01:29:03.360 --> 01:29:06.659
yeah this this whole idea of

01:29:06.659 --> 01:29:09.860
working on a program

01:29:09.900 --> 01:29:12.420
just to sort of get the reality of

01:29:12.420 --> 01:29:14.460
something represented

01:29:14.460 --> 01:29:17.880
causing you to attend to what is the

01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:19.560
suchness of that

01:29:19.560 --> 01:29:23.360
object that you're trying to simulate

01:29:23.360 --> 01:29:27.239
it it creates an arousal state of

01:29:27.239 --> 01:29:31.260
interest in the suchness of the object

01:29:31.260 --> 01:29:33.360
in reality

01:29:33.360 --> 01:29:36.480
and and so it's encouraging to think

01:29:36.480 --> 01:29:38.520
that

01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:40.980
the participation with the simula

01:29:40.980 --> 01:29:44.040
building the simulation or

01:29:44.040 --> 01:29:46.139
or

01:29:46.139 --> 01:29:47.460
just

01:29:47.460 --> 01:29:50.400
in in any way attending to

01:29:50.400 --> 01:29:53.880
the suchness of something

01:29:53.880 --> 01:29:57.000
through ART or trying to trying to

01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:00.360
replicate it or simulate it

01:30:00.360 --> 01:30:03.960
is is sort of a waking up this or

01:30:03.960 --> 01:30:06.659
arousing this desire to know the

01:30:06.659 --> 01:30:08.880
suchness of something and that that

01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:11.460
can't be I'm just

01:30:11.460 --> 01:30:14.520
saying that I'm skeptical that that can

01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:17.780
be found in the virtual

01:30:17.820 --> 01:30:20.460
reality

01:30:20.460 --> 01:30:24.120
so that it it even though we're being

01:30:24.120 --> 01:30:26.340
aroused in the virtual

01:30:26.340 --> 01:30:29.400
we're being aroused for the thing that

01:30:29.400 --> 01:30:31.139
satisfies I'm using Bonnie's language

01:30:31.139 --> 01:30:32.820
here

01:30:32.820 --> 01:30:35.639
um that she's been teaching the thing

01:30:35.639 --> 01:30:37.679
that satisfies that arousal can't be

01:30:37.679 --> 01:30:39.360
found in the virtual it has to be found

01:30:39.360 --> 01:30:41.820
back in nature

01:30:41.820 --> 01:30:44.820
back in the body back himself and and

01:30:44.820 --> 01:30:47.520
real relationship somehow

01:30:47.520 --> 01:30:49.080
that's my

01:30:49.080 --> 01:30:51.000
that's my sense that I won't be able to

01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:53.159
find that I can be aroused by the

01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:55.320
participation

01:30:55.320 --> 01:30:57.060
in the virtual

01:30:57.060 --> 01:30:59.219
and maybe that's it's to design for that

01:30:59.219 --> 01:31:02.280
arousal such that it calls us back into

01:31:02.280 --> 01:31:03.840
nature

01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.560
is a wise design

01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:11.420
a wise way to design these things

01:31:13.980 --> 01:31:16.260
we want the real slime but now we see

01:31:16.260 --> 01:31:19.380
the real slime with sort of a non-nae

01:31:19.380 --> 01:31:22.440
participation Mystique now that we can

01:31:22.440 --> 01:31:25.860
see the slime in New Eyes through

01:31:25.860 --> 01:31:28.260
through a new set of eyes now that we've

01:31:28.260 --> 01:31:30.120
seen it sort of virtually or

01:31:30.120 --> 01:31:32.659
participated in its construction

01:31:32.659 --> 01:31:36.780
virtually now we can see it actually

01:31:36.780 --> 01:31:39.540
we can see deeper into the suchness of

01:31:39.540 --> 01:31:43.820
it and participate with that in reality

01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.420
yeah go ahead what okay

01:32:27.420 --> 01:32:29.580
um no just uh

01:32:29.580 --> 01:32:32.100
small comment I mean I know I was late

01:32:32.100 --> 01:32:35.100
which really upset me but you know I'm

01:32:35.100 --> 01:32:38.580
here and just a response that came up

01:32:38.580 --> 01:32:42.420
for me after this side by side day

01:32:42.420 --> 01:32:45.659
because that's how I feel you know that

01:32:45.659 --> 01:32:47.639
cross modal

01:32:47.639 --> 01:32:50.580
engagement that

01:32:50.580 --> 01:32:53.639
um you've named in that way

01:32:53.639 --> 01:32:54.360
um

01:32:54.360 --> 01:32:57.480
I think at least speaking for the

01:32:57.480 --> 01:32:58.280
Western

01:32:58.280 --> 01:33:01.139
cultures and it's

01:33:01.139 --> 01:33:04.580
sort of with activists

01:33:04.580 --> 01:33:06.440
path

01:33:06.440 --> 01:33:11.000
that actually I think these virtual

01:33:11.000 --> 01:33:12.900
experiments

01:33:12.900 --> 01:33:16.020
exactly like this one because that's how

01:33:16.020 --> 01:33:18.600
we're engaging

01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:22.199
is virtually you know just in case you

01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:26.880
know that slips our minds you know

01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:29.480
and we're engaging at a depth

01:33:29.480 --> 01:33:34.020
that I find very difficult to find in

01:33:34.020 --> 01:33:35.179
real life

01:33:35.179 --> 01:33:37.040
so

01:33:37.040 --> 01:33:40.920
if that's what it's gonna take for this

01:33:40.920 --> 01:33:43.219
narrow impairment

01:33:43.219 --> 01:33:44.900
to

01:33:44.900 --> 01:33:50.100
find new edges you know of mutual

01:33:50.100 --> 01:33:52.920
expansion as a priming

01:33:52.920 --> 01:33:55.860
and especially intergenerational which

01:33:55.860 --> 01:33:58.560
is exactly what's happening here which

01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:02.460
is so rare you know

01:34:02.460 --> 01:34:03.120
um

01:34:03.120 --> 01:34:08.520
then I've I don't know but I have no

01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:11.719
reservation whatsoever

01:34:11.719 --> 01:34:14.719
thank you

01:34:35.580 --> 01:34:38.580
oh and one small footnote

01:34:38.580 --> 01:34:41.159
um the Portuguese and the Spanish when

01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:43.320
they did settlements in South America

01:34:43.320 --> 01:34:46.199
they call them reductions

01:34:46.199 --> 01:34:49.159
that was the name

01:34:49.620 --> 01:34:53.540
it's it's hiding in plain sight

01:34:53.699 --> 01:34:56.699
what the trajectory has been

01:34:56.699 --> 01:34:59.040
just because it's been hijacked by

01:34:59.040 --> 01:35:01.620
polarization and cancer culture

01:35:01.620 --> 01:35:04.440
that doesn't take away the fact that

01:35:04.440 --> 01:35:06.360
that's been

01:35:06.360 --> 01:35:10.320
a trajectory of monoculture and

01:35:10.320 --> 01:35:13.639
pesticidal logic

01:35:14.940 --> 01:35:18.260
similar relationships

01:35:20.340 --> 01:35:23.940
are a little older uh this need to be

01:35:23.940 --> 01:35:27.600
disabused of you know it's I mean it's

01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:29.940
kind of scary

01:35:29.940 --> 01:35:30.560
um

01:35:30.560 --> 01:35:33.960
first of all it's the it's very scary

01:35:33.960 --> 01:35:36.900
because all these Technologies these

01:35:36.900 --> 01:35:39.179
waves of Technology come through and a

01:35:39.179 --> 01:35:41.460
lot of them are very Predator like on

01:35:41.460 --> 01:35:43.199
old people my mom first got on the

01:35:43.199 --> 01:35:46.739
computer everything was like a scam and

01:35:46.739 --> 01:35:47.820
um

01:35:47.820 --> 01:35:50.940
um but there's a time in which

01:35:50.940 --> 01:35:53.580
you know like like Sandra said we that

01:35:53.580 --> 01:35:55.199
we have to understand the new generation

01:35:55.199 --> 01:35:57.780
is like our organs of perception and we

01:35:57.780 --> 01:35:59.100
have some

01:35:59.100 --> 01:36:01.679
some principles maybe we could share our

01:36:01.679 --> 01:36:05.580
stories or our long you know long uh

01:36:05.580 --> 01:36:07.320
longviewism

01:36:07.320 --> 01:36:11.340
uh but we don't live in that world and

01:36:11.340 --> 01:36:12.840
um

01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:16.199
unless you're and even who was I talking

01:36:16.199 --> 01:36:19.320
to oh someone who's actually writing uh

01:36:19.320 --> 01:36:22.440
check GPT 4 for some of my work

01:36:22.440 --> 01:36:24.840
you know he's a he has he's in Pakistan

01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:27.540
he has two young people are coders and

01:36:27.540 --> 01:36:29.400
we were laughing because he was like you

01:36:29.400 --> 01:36:33.060
know I was micromanaging you and and

01:36:33.060 --> 01:36:36.060
he's just a kid and and I didn't pay

01:36:36.060 --> 01:36:37.679
attention for like a couple weeks and

01:36:37.679 --> 01:36:39.659
the amount of stuff he can produce did

01:36:39.659 --> 01:36:42.840
like and just reminding ourselves of

01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:46.080
like it's kind of like the old Merit you

01:36:46.080 --> 01:36:49.800
know the old Sprinter trying to Pace you

01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:53.040
know the 19 year old uh

01:36:53.040 --> 01:36:55.860
athlete that's a Phenom like it just

01:36:55.860 --> 01:36:56.760
doesn't

01:36:56.760 --> 01:36:59.219
it's just ridiculous you know like this

01:36:59.219 --> 01:37:02.040
and also as a society you know when you

01:37:02.040 --> 01:37:04.320
look at most of societies through

01:37:04.320 --> 01:37:06.780
history

01:37:06.780 --> 01:37:10.980
like Peak Performance is much younger

01:37:10.980 --> 01:37:14.040
than we think like like we don't give 12

01:37:14.040 --> 01:37:16.219
to to

01:37:16.219 --> 01:37:20.000
27 year olds enough challenge because

01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:23.219
literally their insights their

01:37:23.219 --> 01:37:26.699
creativity their uh sense they're not

01:37:26.699 --> 01:37:29.820
risk averse their sense of play

01:37:29.820 --> 01:37:31.679
um it all starts there and we

01:37:31.679 --> 01:37:34.139
infantilize children until they're 30.

01:37:34.139 --> 01:37:36.360
and then they're like they're like kind

01:37:36.360 --> 01:37:38.219
of done they're like I don't know what

01:37:38.219 --> 01:37:40.679
career I'm gonna do because

01:37:40.679 --> 01:37:44.280
their whole that whole like this is a

01:37:44.280 --> 01:37:46.320
real problem in these late stage

01:37:46.320 --> 01:37:49.800
capitalist societies that that we have

01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:52.020
stifled

01:37:52.020 --> 01:37:52.920
um

01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:56.040
yeah we you know what do people do in

01:37:56.040 --> 01:37:58.800
high school and even College these are

01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:02.940
prime experimental uh yeah hackers and

01:38:02.940 --> 01:38:04.620
coders get it maybe but they're not

01:38:04.620 --> 01:38:06.719
doing it so much in school they're doing

01:38:06.719 --> 01:38:07.820
it

01:38:07.820 --> 01:38:12.420
extracurricular activities you know so

01:38:12.420 --> 01:38:14.219
um other than the military the military

01:38:14.219 --> 01:38:16.320
knows that you have to get them young

01:38:16.320 --> 01:38:20.940
and fast uh but other than the military

01:38:20.940 --> 01:38:23.580
I remember watching

01:38:23.580 --> 01:38:25.560
I forgot what it was but it was a video

01:38:25.560 --> 01:38:27.060
about

01:38:27.060 --> 01:38:29.159
the Navies

01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:32.340
or or it could have been the Marines uh

01:38:32.340 --> 01:38:34.139
I think it was a Navy's

01:38:34.139 --> 01:38:37.440
office where they track like these kids

01:38:37.440 --> 01:38:41.280
they track like every single uh orbit

01:38:41.280 --> 01:38:44.400
and sub-orbital instrument that goes

01:38:44.400 --> 01:38:46.260
around the earth and they were talking

01:38:46.260 --> 01:38:48.739
about these

01:38:48.739 --> 01:38:51.420
these International treaties that have

01:38:51.420 --> 01:38:53.280
to do with like how many you can put

01:38:53.280 --> 01:38:55.679
Beyond a certain

01:38:55.679 --> 01:38:58.500
uh distance because those potentially

01:38:58.500 --> 01:39:01.260
can be weapons that can shoot out all

01:39:01.260 --> 01:39:03.960
the others it turns out to be this huge

01:39:03.960 --> 01:39:06.420
Space Race I think it was a 60 Minute

01:39:06.420 --> 01:39:09.600
special it's very complex nobody knows

01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:12.600
about it it's it's extremely complicated

01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:14.760
because every time starlink launches

01:39:14.760 --> 01:39:17.820
another they TR you know it's all like

01:39:17.820 --> 01:39:20.280
tracked and and it's like international

01:39:20.280 --> 01:39:23.219
waters treaties and all this stuff and

01:39:23.219 --> 01:39:26.040
the United States has prerogative to the

01:39:26.040 --> 01:39:27.840
highest level

01:39:27.840 --> 01:39:30.719
it's an act of War if any other Nation

01:39:30.719 --> 01:39:33.420
sends a satellite at that level

01:39:33.420 --> 01:39:36.000
so if China sends a satellite at that

01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:38.760
level we will attack them I mean this is

01:39:38.760 --> 01:39:40.620
like big stuff and it's not even

01:39:40.620 --> 01:39:42.659
happening you know it happens in this

01:39:42.659 --> 01:39:44.520
other dimension

01:39:44.520 --> 01:39:48.060
but they walked around the commander

01:39:48.060 --> 01:39:51.719
Control Center and there were 18 and 19

01:39:51.719 --> 01:39:54.300
and 20 year olds sitting in front of

01:39:54.300 --> 01:39:56.760
computers

01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:59.400
literally

01:39:59.400 --> 01:40:03.120
at the epicenter of modern conflict

01:40:03.120 --> 01:40:06.360
there were and they were so bright and

01:40:06.360 --> 01:40:08.340
you know it was the military so I wanted

01:40:08.340 --> 01:40:11.000
to like ew there are evil awful people

01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:14.159
uh but that's why I said only the

01:40:14.159 --> 01:40:16.380
military knows you should get them young

01:40:16.380 --> 01:40:17.520
and fast

01:40:17.520 --> 01:40:19.860
honest not because you know they used to

01:40:19.860 --> 01:40:22.440
say because you know the 18 and 19 year

01:40:22.440 --> 01:40:24.300
olds are stupid enough to go and get

01:40:24.300 --> 01:40:26.820
killed which is true but then there's

01:40:26.820 --> 01:40:30.179
always this other class of 18 19 20 year

01:40:30.179 --> 01:40:33.540
olds which are doing amazing yeah

01:40:33.540 --> 01:40:38.520
amazing work so this is uh a socially

01:40:38.520 --> 01:40:43.560
conditioned down regulation of talent in

01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:44.940
our country

01:40:44.940 --> 01:40:48.360
because all the powers in the Boomers uh

01:40:48.360 --> 01:40:52.380
and you know it's it's threatening so

01:40:52.380 --> 01:40:53.940
um yeah

01:40:53.940 --> 01:40:56.219
that's just one reflect that this is a

01:40:56.219 --> 01:40:58.139
reality that you're working that you're

01:40:58.139 --> 01:40:59.940
working in you know so you won't get a

01:40:59.940 --> 01:41:01.980
lot of social confirmation outside of

01:41:01.980 --> 01:41:03.480
your own little

01:41:03.480 --> 01:41:05.639
clicks your own little dens of

01:41:05.639 --> 01:41:09.139
Indiscreet creativity

01:41:20.219 --> 01:41:22.920
the industry charms

01:41:22.920 --> 01:41:26.420
of the Gujarati

01:41:26.470 --> 01:41:29.659
[Music]

01:41:43.440 --> 01:41:45.659
David what do you think you jumped up

01:41:45.659 --> 01:41:47.219
top here I know you didn't raise your

01:41:47.219 --> 01:41:49.639
hand but

01:41:52.340 --> 01:41:57.500
I was practicing being a spider I guess

01:42:00.540 --> 01:42:03.679
um you know I I

01:42:04.199 --> 01:42:08.360
I'm seeing the time is getting

01:42:09.179 --> 01:42:12.119
to a close of this session so I'm

01:42:12.119 --> 01:42:15.679
tracking back and uh

01:42:16.440 --> 01:42:20.000
so I would like to use your language

01:42:20.000 --> 01:42:24.179
Bonnie double click a few things so I'm

01:42:24.179 --> 01:42:26.400
going to double click double click

01:42:26.400 --> 01:42:29.460
double click and double click

01:42:29.460 --> 01:42:33.260
so it'll be eight clips

01:42:35.239 --> 01:42:40.139
abstract 24 hours abstract thinking is

01:42:40.139 --> 01:42:42.840
the solution

01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:47.540
that was the lyric of today's music

01:42:54.179 --> 01:42:58.100
and you said something Bonnie

01:43:01.080 --> 01:43:04.260
we might see

01:43:04.260 --> 01:43:07.159
somehow

01:43:08.580 --> 01:43:09.920
what

01:43:09.920 --> 01:43:13.920
what kind of posture would that be to be

01:43:13.920 --> 01:43:16.500
in 24 hours

01:43:16.500 --> 01:43:18.060
to might

01:43:18.060 --> 01:43:22.040
see somehow

01:43:28.619 --> 01:43:31.199
to me that could be the whole module

01:43:31.199 --> 01:43:35.659
that we're in might see somehow

01:43:36.540 --> 01:43:37.920
and then

01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:39.980
um

01:43:43.800 --> 01:43:45.840
I love

01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:48.900
cannabis it's another double click but

01:43:48.900 --> 01:43:51.239
it's a side double click to that as the

01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:54.739
the whole idea of

01:43:54.739 --> 01:43:58.560
Fascination through the lens of faith

01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:02.159
that Alex brought in

01:44:02.159 --> 01:44:05.119
just how

01:44:06.060 --> 01:44:09.300
how expansive that makes me feel in my

01:44:09.300 --> 01:44:11.219
chest

01:44:11.219 --> 01:44:14.340
Fascination through faith

01:44:14.340 --> 01:44:18.260
you know and then Universal way

01:44:19.080 --> 01:44:23.760
and then Xavier on a double click

01:44:23.760 --> 01:44:28.639
I don't get inside these machines

01:44:34.020 --> 01:44:37.199
but I want to live in coding with enough

01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:40.040
intuition

01:44:41.639 --> 01:44:45.080
as I move my body

01:44:51.719 --> 01:44:56.540
and find a new theory of my body

01:44:56.699 --> 01:45:00.900
through enough intuition

01:45:07.400 --> 01:45:11.360
just me being a spider

01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:52.260
I think we'll end with that the spider

01:45:52.260 --> 01:45:56.100
that wove the threads into a nice warm

01:45:56.100 --> 01:45:58.920
comfortable safety web

01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:01.580
hammock

01:46:01.580 --> 01:46:04.560
to end this session it's been great and

01:46:04.560 --> 01:46:07.920
I I just think that you know it's such a

01:46:07.920 --> 01:46:09.860
pleasure to

01:46:09.860 --> 01:46:12.840
I mean I guess you all must be surprised

01:46:12.840 --> 01:46:14.940
we start with embodiment we end up with

01:46:14.940 --> 01:46:16.619
pure abstractions but it's such a

01:46:16.619 --> 01:46:18.360
pleasure not to do the same like

01:46:18.360 --> 01:46:20.400
polarities and

01:46:20.400 --> 01:46:22.920
you know we're looking for something

01:46:22.920 --> 01:46:25.080
that's very integrative

01:46:25.080 --> 01:46:28.380
um and uh really understands The Human

01:46:28.380 --> 01:46:30.420
Condition so

01:46:30.420 --> 01:46:31.560
um

01:46:31.560 --> 01:46:34.159
yeah

01:46:34.260 --> 01:46:36.719
so thank you all for showing up

01:46:36.719 --> 01:46:39.840
on this lovely spring day I wish you a

01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:42.540
good day and uh we got a couple more

01:46:42.540 --> 01:46:45.119
sessions and then we have our recap and

01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:47.280
then we have a break summer break so

01:46:47.280 --> 01:46:49.920
we're getting close to

01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:55.560
um the first the first uh ending okay

01:46:55.560 --> 01:46:58.520
bye everyone



## Cohort 5

00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:03.719
foreign

00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:16.849
[Music]

00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.140
I was watching Matthew McConaughey on

00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:33.899
Lex Friedman yesterday

00:00:33.899 --> 00:00:36.620
uh

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I'm just gonna talk a little bit because

00:00:39.120 --> 00:00:43.100
I think some lights please will be here

00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:44.460
um

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and he's done an interesting thing

00:00:46.620 --> 00:00:48.899
because he's been doing this self-help

00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:52.739
like campaign this spiritual campaign

00:00:52.739 --> 00:00:54.539
you know I wrote this book called green

00:00:54.539 --> 00:00:55.739
lights

00:00:55.739 --> 00:00:57.660
oh

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uh

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is that true for everyone

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can you hear me anybody else hearing

00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:08.060
that

00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:11.939
maybe maybe you have it on maybe you

00:01:11.939 --> 00:01:13.799
clicked on the link and it's running

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YouTube is running it in the background

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but exit exit yeah yeah because

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YouTube's very aggressive like that very

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aggressive yes aggressive YouTube

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hey Chris okay

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anyways

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so it's an interesting phenomenon

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because

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he's such a good actor that he's like

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really adopted this Persona and and have

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you been watching it Holly like it's

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very interesting like he's like he

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believes it but he's like completely

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absorbed in this Persona which is the

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kind of persona he's acted in before and

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there's this like it's really hard to

00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:04.619
tell like what's real for him and what's

00:02:04.619 --> 00:02:08.099
not real for him and uh

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it's very interesting

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um

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to watch

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okay so today we have a small group so

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we maybe just do the exercise

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um right here in the main room which

00:02:21.959 --> 00:02:24.239
would be fantastic because it will be

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recorded

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today we're going to do some collective

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Insight practice

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and we're gonna work on one of the most

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elusive problems in all of cognitive

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science and spirituality

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and I think you're up to it

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just now not before this moment

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but maybe just now at this moment

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so does that sound

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exciting

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yeah it does I have to leave at 8 30

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today so if we're going to break out

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into small groups I'm going to have to

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take myself out would you no no we're

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just gonna stay here okay so instead of

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doing since you have to leave instead of

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uh doing the framing first why don't we

00:03:16.980 --> 00:03:20.640
just jump into the exercise and then

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maybe when he leaves I can frame and

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then we'll jump back into the exercise

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okay

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so the question we're going to be

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working with and it's Collective Insight

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practice so it's not about sharing how

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your internal state is moving it's about

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really you know you're gonna try to use

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that internal state to whatever it's

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doing it's doing we by itself we don't

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know why it has no psychological

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components it's helping us work on the

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question and to do that it's going to

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try different things this is the way it

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works okay and the question is

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uh it's interesting it's like Greg

00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:05.040
Enriquez and John vervecki and Bruce

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Alderman in layman's Theory The elusive

00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:10.860
eye the self we're gonna look at what is

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the self

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um and

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um we're going to you can think about it

00:04:17.940 --> 00:04:20.280
in different ways so you might right now

00:04:20.280 --> 00:04:23.280
just relax and think about how we think

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about the self as a construction so we

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imagine that there's a thing that's

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executive functioning that's moving my

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body and making decisions when we

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examine it we know this is not true but

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we also know how we can proceed very

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subtly as if this were true right we

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have a simulation of a

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an executive function inside of us or

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self or something like that does that

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make sense I mean

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when we examine it I think we're all

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smart enough to know that it is a

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simulation or a thought

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um but this is somehow

00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:03.919
um

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we it floats in our in our imagination

00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:10.560
and then there's the narrative self uh

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this this we worked on imagination and

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memory and noticed that the narrative

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self is really not grounded very much in

00:05:19.500 --> 00:05:22.380
real memories it picks and assembles

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little things little features and uh

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scripts really A Narrative of that self

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and this is imaginal and creative also

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so these are the ways in which we talk

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about the self

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now

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one of the ways that you never hear

00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:52.440
the self-talked about

00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:56.660
is as a pure abstraction

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so what do we mean by a pure abstraction

00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:05.880
some words we've used is uh is what's

00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:08.820
there or not there at the same time but

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also something that is more like

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perception we look into the world

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and we see pattern we see

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something that's real

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but it's not at the level of

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the particulars

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[Music]

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I'll just read this from Christopher

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Alexander

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at root these assertions lead in my mind

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to one conclusion

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the I like presence in the universe is

00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:07.020
real

00:07:07.020 --> 00:07:10.319
is somehow a real thing

00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.199
and plays a real role in the scheme of

00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.740
things and in the structure of matter in

00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:20.460
the way the universe behaves

00:07:20.460 --> 00:07:23.819
I have myself concluded this

00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.460
there must be some relation between the

00:07:26.460 --> 00:07:30.060
ultimate nature of a living center

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and the nature of this self

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one sort of

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place that

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the question that kind of came up

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the sort of immediate it's sort of like

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a practical question

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it's always like

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when these when I hear that

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when I hear that

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um my mind goes through are we

00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:42.200
talking about like

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this may be too simplistic I don't know

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but are we talking about

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individual cells or some sort of larger

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self

00:08:52.380 --> 00:08:55.019
like what does he mean by

00:08:55.019 --> 00:08:59.279
self it was self-substance or of the

00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.800
universe like that to me sounds like not

00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:03.959
what I think of when I think of self as

00:09:03.959 --> 00:09:06.600
in like oh Bonnie's got a little self or

00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.540
baby's got to sell or whatever like I

00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:10.920
don't know

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yeah just trying to you know clear that

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up I guess

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okay

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yeah I don't know I got this phrase in

00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.600
my head are we served like uh whirlpools

00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:25.100
are cells

00:10:25.380 --> 00:10:27.360
like

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the WordPress barrier so they have kind

00:10:30.300 --> 00:10:31.860
of a

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pattern

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I don't know

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I see a meadow that used to be a pond

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that's becoming a forest

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Sam when you said whirlpools

00:11:37.140 --> 00:11:39.360
that was interesting

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um I'm reminded of

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uh hey it's

00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:48.839
like uh

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I'm kind of fuzzy but I think it's

00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:55.260
Michael Levin and the when like

00:11:55.260 --> 00:11:58.279
the cells

00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.480
the individual cells they communicate

00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.060
across the

00:12:03.060 --> 00:12:05.060
um

00:12:05.640 --> 00:12:08.760
the Gap Junctions

00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:13.279
and then we kind of become oneself

00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.100
I don't know

00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:21.899
I'm always asking also is there like a

00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:24.920
subjectivity to that

00:12:25.079 --> 00:12:27.120
like does this are we talking about our

00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.940
stuff like to me self and subjectivity

00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:33.380
usually go hand in hand

00:12:33.839 --> 00:12:35.760
um

00:12:35.760 --> 00:12:38.180
yeah

00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:30.680
but

00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.160
this is also making a question

00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:44.160
the dichotomy of just objectivity and

00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:45.600
subjectivity like maybe there's

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:48.079
something else

00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:02.160
so try to look at the question in this

00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:05.480
mode of pure obstruction

00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:51.720
there must be some relation

00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.620
between the ultimate nature of a living

00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:58.339
center

00:14:58.579 --> 00:15:02.180
of the self

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.579
thank you

00:16:49.680 --> 00:16:52.860
and don't talk about your body but pay

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:58.639
attention to the energy in your body

00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.079
as inflammation

00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:52.100
images of

00:17:52.100 --> 00:17:55.100
how things touch

00:17:55.100 --> 00:17:59.100
glasses of water and water

00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:01.940
the

00:18:02.340 --> 00:18:05.299
pattern

00:18:07.260 --> 00:18:10.200
that was generating sine waves that you

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.380
sent

00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:26.520
this notion of Center is really

00:18:26.520 --> 00:18:31.020
interesting and noticing on the screen I

00:18:31.020 --> 00:18:31.919
can

00:18:31.919 --> 00:18:35.179
move the boxes around so I can

00:18:35.179 --> 00:18:38.520
rearrange your faces

00:18:38.520 --> 00:18:42.320
and move Center in some ways

00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:45.660
and each time I move the boxes there's a

00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:47.100
subtle

00:18:47.100 --> 00:18:49.080
difference

00:18:49.080 --> 00:18:53.360
in what's aroused Within

00:18:59.580 --> 00:19:01.200
yes

00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.220
um

00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.580
thank you Holly that that that helped so

00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:07.980
there's a

00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:09.720
this kind of

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.580
I don't know what other words to use

00:19:11.580 --> 00:19:16.380
it's kind of so there's a sense maker

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.780
um but that sense maker isn't

00:19:18.780 --> 00:19:21.900
isn't in the center

00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:24.960
this this sense maker

00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.799
is is exists in a

00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.179
in a

00:19:30.179 --> 00:19:32.419
this

00:19:32.419 --> 00:19:36.419
a kind of porosity

00:19:36.419 --> 00:19:38.160
and

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.520
all of that has a certain

00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:44.419
vibratory tone to it

00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.160
yeah and the abstraction piece

00:20:01.620 --> 00:20:04.280
is is

00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:10.440
once that porosity is is alive that

00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.559
the abstract piece becomes a bit

00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.340
comical

00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.299
because for a very split very very short

00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:22.740
amount of time

00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.260
the uh this the sense that the sense

00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:28.400
maker is projecting

00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:30.240
um

00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.160
it doesn't

00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.260
it doesn't hold up

00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:36.360
the sense making strategy doesn't hold

00:20:36.360 --> 00:20:38.220
up

00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:41.539
something else holds up

00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:45.900
what if it's not projection what if it's

00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:48.900
introduction

00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.660
yeah that was that's the hard part

00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.820
that's the that's the cut that's the

00:20:53.820 --> 00:20:55.200
vibe for me that's what I would call

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.960
this kind of subtle vibration

00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.700
like

00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:02.700
like this back and forth thing that

00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.919
calls forth what you just mentioned

00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:26.280
sorry Bonnie can you say that again it's

00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:28.940
not projection

00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:32.760
foreign

00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:36.299
so I can talk about the tree I see the

00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:37.200
tree

00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.400
and there's a whole construction

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.900
narrative saying well you don't actually

00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:45.720
see the tree you're projecting

00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.240
your prediction of the tree onto the

00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.500
tree

00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.260
and in this course we've we've rejected

00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:54.120
that and we're saying when we look at

00:21:54.120 --> 00:21:59.299
the tree treeness is interjected into me

00:22:00.179 --> 00:22:03.000
that it has a direct impact on my

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.480
physiology my dispositional state

00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.740
the procedures that go Downstream

00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:13.460
so

00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:17.100
I was asking Ray what if what he was

00:22:17.100 --> 00:22:20.220
thinking of as a projection

00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:23.039
because that's we've been trained to be

00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.460
careful we don't project psychic

00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:29.100
material onto the world

00:22:29.100 --> 00:22:31.799
but what if from the view of pure

00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:34.440
abstraction it's an interjection it's

00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.780
something the world is introjected into

00:22:36.780 --> 00:22:38.280
us

00:22:38.280 --> 00:22:41.600
this softness

00:22:43.620 --> 00:22:46.620
foreign

00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.320
can't even stand it

00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:24.260
there seems to be something about shape

00:23:24.419 --> 00:23:26.280
um

00:23:26.280 --> 00:23:27.659
tree

00:23:27.659 --> 00:23:28.679
so

00:23:28.679 --> 00:23:30.480
every leaf on the tree is a living

00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.340
center

00:23:32.340 --> 00:23:34.500
it has to do it's I I'm trying to figure

00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:38.460
out why but it seems like the leaf is

00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.100
distinguished by its shape and because

00:23:41.100 --> 00:23:44.419
it has a shape

00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.299
it's a center so

00:23:48.299 --> 00:23:50.480
um

00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:54.200
I don't that's all I got

00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:00.320
of myself right myself is a shape

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:39.720
the question is for me is who's the

00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:41.700
who's the goddamn architect of this

00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:44.000
thing

00:25:00.419 --> 00:25:01.919
for me the question now what is the

00:25:01.919 --> 00:25:05.760
center of five object in this table

00:25:05.760 --> 00:25:07.919
three of them appear centers there are

00:25:07.919 --> 00:25:10.320
more like associations

00:25:10.320 --> 00:25:12.980
you know

00:25:28.260 --> 00:25:30.840
okay

00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:34.580
now we will

00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:38.240
build some skills hold on

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.179
so let me just uh talk a little bit

00:25:51.179 --> 00:25:53.880
about those terms interjection and

00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.700
projection

00:25:55.700 --> 00:25:59.760
so they come from psychological terms

00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:03.960
we're not really using them that way but

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.820
um you could like for example

00:26:07.820 --> 00:26:11.279
discover that you're a young man and

00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:16.020
every time a woman starts to make a

00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:19.500
comment on your performance

00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:21.840
you start you get triggered and you're

00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:24.360
all over the person and then you can

00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:27.480
reflect on that and say gee

00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.299
I realized she was just trying to make a

00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:31.980
suggestion and you but you can notice

00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:34.440
that you're projecting on

00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.419
that someone's being or something

00:26:36.419 --> 00:26:38.580
right so that's a projection you kind of

00:26:38.580 --> 00:26:41.400
notice that despite that this person was

00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.380
actually kind or this person was just

00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:44.400
helping

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:48.360
you're projecting that they're

00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:50.640
now where does that come from that comes

00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.000
from this is stereotype that your mother

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.299
was and you've interjected the

00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.940
 into yourself

00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:03.240
right so it lives in you so now when

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:04.620
someone it just

00:27:04.620 --> 00:27:08.820
so you project what's interjected in you

00:27:08.820 --> 00:27:12.620
so that that lives in you

00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:15.200
bye Ray

00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.779
so now we're going to turn to our notion

00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:22.380
of internal and external relations which

00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:24.480
is what Sandra was I think getting at

00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.279
with the ponds in the forest

00:27:29.100 --> 00:27:34.679
so if I live in a certain habitat

00:27:34.679 --> 00:27:38.960
I maneuver in that habitat

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:41.340
and

00:27:41.340 --> 00:27:44.460
my activities in that habitat become

00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:47.039
interjected in me

00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.640
as instinct or

00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.620
um

00:27:51.620 --> 00:27:55.679
subjective qualities or whatever

00:27:55.679 --> 00:27:59.419
something about the way the pond work is

00:27:59.419 --> 00:28:01.820
interjected into

00:28:01.820 --> 00:28:06.200
the consciousness of the Beaver

00:28:07.919 --> 00:28:09.900
so

00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.600
this is

00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:16.200
whatever environment we have starts to

00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.679
shape

00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.720
our centeredness our selfness our

00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.380
subjectivity

00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:27.260
okay

00:28:28.020 --> 00:28:30.299
this is why

00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:33.919
changing the environment that people

00:28:33.919 --> 00:28:37.260
perform in is very important to changing

00:28:37.260 --> 00:28:40.260
subjectivity produces subjectivity

00:28:40.260 --> 00:28:42.919
foreign

00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.279
now we have to get we got to get at the

00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.100
largest scale of abstraction here

00:28:50.100 --> 00:28:52.500
and there is something about the

00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.159
universe

00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.799
that is interjected in us that we're

00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.200
internally related see we know we're

00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.080
externally related to the universe but

00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:07.380
at the most abstract Scale of the

00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.000
Universe

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:14.120
how is that internalized in US

00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:16.980
so if we think about the universe is a

00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:19.860
living center the largest scale

00:29:19.860 --> 00:29:21.720
what's at the center of a Whirlpool

00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:23.340
nothing

00:29:23.340 --> 00:29:26.220
a living center is an abstraction it's

00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.899
there and not there at the same time

00:29:27.899 --> 00:29:29.580
right

00:29:29.580 --> 00:29:31.860
the center of a Whirlpool is an

00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:33.840
abstraction

00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:36.120
but it's not it's a pure obstruction

00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:38.399
it's there and it's not there at the

00:29:38.399 --> 00:29:40.820
same time

00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.740
there when the energies are organized in

00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:46.020
a certain way right so a living center

00:29:46.020 --> 00:29:48.539
is a pure abstraction

00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:51.179
does that make sense and Samuel you are

00:29:51.179 --> 00:29:54.600
very smart some things seem to be living

00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:57.840
centers and that's because there's some

00:29:57.840 --> 00:30:00.240
Center that's there and not there at the

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.179
same time organizing principle

00:30:03.179 --> 00:30:06.600
that means they're internally related

00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:09.600
where stuff that are just two pens

00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:12.299
they're externally related they don't

00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:13.919
share a center because they're

00:30:13.919 --> 00:30:16.260
externally related

00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:19.679
but something about this pen the design

00:30:19.679 --> 00:30:22.200
I'm not saying it there it's a self like

00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.299
I have a self but something about this

00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:25.200
pen

00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.779
is centered

00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:30.120
that something is not there

00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:33.659
I'm not an idiot I'm not an animist and

00:30:33.659 --> 00:30:38.000
I think there's Spirit energy in there

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:40.880
that something is a pure abstraction

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.039
whereas are these two things centered

00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.850
doesn't seem to me

00:30:45.850 --> 00:30:47.039
[Music]

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:48.600
okay

00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:50.700
a living center is a pure obstruction

00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:52.860
but

00:30:52.860 --> 00:30:54.600
it's

00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:56.820
there's something there that makes it

00:30:56.820 --> 00:30:59.760
possible for it not to be there this

00:30:59.760 --> 00:31:01.860
sounds like gobbledygook but I think you

00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:03.240
understand it because you've been taking

00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.140
the course right

00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.340
so there's something on the south that's

00:31:08.340 --> 00:31:10.320
there and not there at the same time

00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:13.340
like a whirlpool

00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:19.020
but what is the habitat

00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:21.539
that produces this not the psychological

00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:24.480
self the psychological self is produced

00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.100
by the habitat of your childhood

00:31:26.100 --> 00:31:27.539
upbringing

00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:31.940
but the fact that there is a self

00:31:32.100 --> 00:31:35.399
at the deepest level of abstraction what

00:31:35.399 --> 00:31:39.860
is the habitat that's interjected

00:31:40.860 --> 00:31:43.200
and the gas is that it's the universe

00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.779
itself there's something self-like about

00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:48.120
the universe it's the highest level

00:31:48.120 --> 00:31:50.760
abstraction and that is internally

00:31:50.760 --> 00:31:53.580
related to us

00:31:53.580 --> 00:31:57.980
as the self-like Living Center

00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:03.240
that's the proposal that Alexander is

00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:05.480
making

00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:10.980
and it's fractal in the sense that

00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:13.860
there's something

00:32:13.860 --> 00:32:16.020
in

00:32:16.020 --> 00:32:18.779
the leaf

00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:21.240
the pattern in the leaf has been

00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.760
introducted from the pattern in the tree

00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:27.840
and the pattern in the tree has been

00:32:27.840 --> 00:32:29.880
interjected from patterns in the

00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.200
universe

00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.779
and the self is a pattern like a

00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:36.200
whirlpool

00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:40.020
do you see what I'm saying like

00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:43.260
this is the proposal that we're not just

00:32:43.260 --> 00:32:45.240
oh look that we're people and we have

00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.940
subjectivities themselves and we're cut

00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:51.360
off from everything else because we have

00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:54.000
reflexive minds and awareness the very

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.120
nature of the self seems to be a

00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:59.100
fundamental pattern

00:32:59.100 --> 00:33:01.500
in the universe now when I say the

00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:04.260
universe has a self I don't mean the

00:33:04.260 --> 00:33:07.559
subjective self the psychological self

00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.860
but this sense of a center that's there

00:33:10.860 --> 00:33:14.179
and not there at the same time

00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:18.919
and this is how it's fractalized

00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:24.059
from that Center in me that's there and

00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.940
not there at the same time

00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:29.519
okay it's like this you know the

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.600
universe

00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:32.880
the universe is like a sphere oh this is

00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.419
what we consider it it's a poor metaphor

00:33:36.419 --> 00:33:37.919
but it's a shape

00:33:37.919 --> 00:33:39.840
but the funny thing about the sphere

00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:42.600
that is the universe if I think of a

00:33:42.600 --> 00:33:44.880
sphere like a balloon and I'm way over

00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.760
here at the edge over here then I

00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:50.760
imagine that more of the universe is

00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:53.760
away from me right but the universe

00:33:53.760 --> 00:33:55.679
isn't like that wherever you go in the

00:33:55.679 --> 00:33:57.720
sphere you see you're in the center of

00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:58.860
the universe

00:33:58.860 --> 00:34:01.500
this is physics wherever you go in the

00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:03.000
universe you're in the center of the

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:04.860
universe

00:34:04.860 --> 00:34:07.740
it's not like a real actual concrete

00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:09.960
sphere where if I'm over here

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.800
I'm further away than over here okay

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.839
does that make sense

00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:17.460
you're always looking from the present

00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:19.859
to the Big Bang in a spherical way

00:34:19.859 --> 00:34:22.080
wherever you go in the universe you're

00:34:22.080 --> 00:34:25.280
in the center of the universe

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.960
that's physics does that make sense it's

00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.560
weird but it's just physics and that too

00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:34.139
is the nature of the self that the self

00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:37.379
is the center but the fact that wherever

00:34:37.379 --> 00:34:38.700
we go we're in the center of the

00:34:38.700 --> 00:34:41.639
universe is because we can't take over

00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.280
we can't take a perspective on the

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.099
universe it's inside us it's internally

00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:50.000
related to us

00:34:57.180 --> 00:35:01.619
and how the whole universe fits in US

00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:03.920
is this

00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:06.480
fundamental pattern which we call the

00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.560
self

00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:11.119
which or a living center

00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:25.280
foreign

00:35:28.680 --> 00:35:31.680
each glass has a living center and the

00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:33.000
whole water

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.260
is a living center

00:35:37.560 --> 00:35:39.960
so all these all these things you were

00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.119
talking about are part of

00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.680
ways of getting at this

00:35:55.140 --> 00:35:57.720
Bonnie I'm thinking about

00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:59.720
um

00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:02.760
Christopher Alexander somewhere talks

00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.640
about how

00:36:05.640 --> 00:36:08.400
there's a meadow

00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.420
there's a forest and there's a there's

00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:15.300
an Eco tone

00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:17.640
in between

00:36:17.640 --> 00:36:20.400
and that's where

00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.859
a lot of the life

00:36:22.859 --> 00:36:28.940
is the animals the the actual

00:36:29.520 --> 00:36:30.560
um

00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:34.560
nourishment uh

00:36:34.680 --> 00:36:37.619
and I'm wondering

00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:39.599
how that is

00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.020
when we're looking at Living centers and

00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:45.500
selves

00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:50.599
well living centers

00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.500
I would say he would say they have more

00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:56.640
life

00:36:56.640 --> 00:37:00.380
if they have more equal tone

00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:04.020
right so

00:37:04.020 --> 00:37:05.280
um

00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.339
if they're more porous for example

00:37:08.339 --> 00:37:11.640
um that there's there's lots of nutrient

00:37:11.640 --> 00:37:14.579
exchange so the Living Center organ is

00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:17.460
it organizing principle right so how

00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.680
much diversity does this Living Center

00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:21.359
organize

00:37:21.359 --> 00:37:24.119
well how much diversity does

00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:25.680
and

00:37:25.680 --> 00:37:26.579
um

00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:27.980
a

00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:31.320
Universe organized right so this is has

00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.359
a lot of life

00:37:33.359 --> 00:37:37.680
um how much diversity does

00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:39.900
um

00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.480
yeah so if you you can think of a Nation

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.180
as a living center but if it's

00:37:45.180 --> 00:37:49.440
authoritarian it doesn't have much life

00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.599
and you can think of certain buildings

00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.720
as living centers but if they're just

00:37:54.720 --> 00:37:57.900
square and you know you can't open the

00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:59.940
windows there's not a lot of exchange

00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:04.380
they don't organize a lot of diversity

00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:07.740
it's not quantitative it's how much how

00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:10.440
much range of diversity well as you

00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.800
think of these great videos of these

00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.720
off-grid cabins where the inside

00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:18.060
penetrates the outside and the outside

00:38:18.060 --> 00:38:20.880
penetrates the inside and you're not

00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.280
quite sure where the cabin ends and

00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:25.260
nature begins then this is a living

00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.380
center and you get this feeling that the

00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:29.960
center includes

00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.640
the mountains you you go to bed at night

00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:35.339
you see the mountain so it it it's

00:38:35.339 --> 00:38:37.500
organizing much more

00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:39.960
so how would have you know these living

00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:44.180
centers have more or less life

00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:48.140
um in in that definition

00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:50.280
he also

00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:54.240
talks about the like if you're standing

00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:56.839
in the middle of the meadow

00:38:56.839 --> 00:38:58.400
the the

00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:01.980
sense of held-ness

00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.760
that we

00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.420
there's something about

00:39:09.359 --> 00:39:15.320
that edge of aliveness that gives us

00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:18.300
yeah so this is something we actually

00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:20.579
should do although it takes a lot of

00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:23.760
time and and this might be something you

00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:26.280
do in the northwest

00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.200
of course the indigenous people knew

00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:32.180
this you can find the center of a meadow

00:39:32.180 --> 00:39:34.859
and you do it at first you look and you

00:39:34.859 --> 00:39:36.540
think it must be over there and then you

00:39:36.540 --> 00:39:38.880
use your subtle sensing and you realize

00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.280
and then you look and you will notice

00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:44.579
why this feels like the center you don't

00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:46.920
use your necessarily like calculate

00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.260
what's going on you might even be

00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.240
confused so you have to sit there for a

00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:52.980
while and maybe a little later at night

00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:57.480
now the bats will swirl in the center

00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.300
so you can find now the larger the

00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:02.700
landscape and unless it's like mountains

00:40:02.700 --> 00:40:03.660
and stuff

00:40:03.660 --> 00:40:05.700
sometimes it's harder to find a center

00:40:05.700 --> 00:40:09.599
you have to walk more closely you have

00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.560
to tend to more complexity although like

00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:16.280
I said if it's like a valley it's it's

00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:19.140
you still you know there's certain walls

00:40:19.140 --> 00:40:21.420
and parameters so

00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:24.839
um this is of course what these

00:40:24.839 --> 00:40:27.240
indigenous people are talking about when

00:40:27.240 --> 00:40:29.880
there are uh entities

00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:34.020
in the landscape they are cells they are

00:40:34.020 --> 00:40:37.020
living centers which are there and not

00:40:37.020 --> 00:40:38.940
there at the same time

00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:41.760
we understand with that there and not

00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.579
there at the same times means we say

00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:45.900
it's there because there's something

00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:47.280
real

00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.980
that is affording it to be a center

00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:52.980
there are real activities real processes

00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:56.700
real creatures real atoms but it's not

00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:58.380
there in the sense we don't say there's

00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:00.119
a third term like the indigenous people

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.300
would say ah this is where Sasquatch

00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:04.680
lives

00:41:04.680 --> 00:41:07.020
yeah

00:41:07.020 --> 00:41:09.420
because it's a pure abstraction okay so

00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:13.020
this is this weird phrase that if more

00:41:13.020 --> 00:41:14.700
people watch this they'll think we

00:41:14.700 --> 00:41:16.800
started a cult because that's how Cults

00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.020
talk you know it's there and not there

00:41:19.020 --> 00:41:20.820
at the same time

00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:23.640
um but uh

00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:25.859
so that's a very good point and this

00:41:25.859 --> 00:41:27.240
would be a great

00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:28.380
um

00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:31.020
um I know John Milton does this he takes

00:41:31.020 --> 00:41:33.660
people to the San Cristobal mountains

00:41:33.660 --> 00:41:36.900
and they find rocks that he doesn't use

00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:39.119
this terminology they call them energy

00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:42.300
rocks or whatever but basically their

00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:46.079
our ability to unders it's it's finding

00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:48.240
selves and actually John Milton talks

00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:50.880
about Sasquatch she says this is a

00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:51.839
is that

00:41:51.839 --> 00:41:54.000
that and O'Brien freaking out because he

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.099
had this terminology but this is what

00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:58.980
they're doing is they're finding

00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.619
so when you stand in the center there's

00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:03.359
something about the activity in which

00:42:03.359 --> 00:42:05.280
all the actors

00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.579
are sharing internal relations

00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:11.820
they all have something inside their

00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:15.240
Consciousness or their subjectivity or

00:42:15.240 --> 00:42:16.980
their programming if you want to use

00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:20.280
that term that comes from the

00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.500
environment virens that's circling

00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:25.380
around around here

00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:27.420
so the heron

00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:29.040
knows

00:42:29.040 --> 00:42:30.599
uh

00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.820
knows something about the fish and the

00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.619
fish knows something about their herons

00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:38.700
and the Snapping Turtles know when I put

00:42:38.700 --> 00:42:40.859
in my Donut Garden and then they come

00:42:40.859 --> 00:42:42.780
out and lay eggs there after the rain

00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:45.720
they know something about not to lay the

00:42:45.720 --> 00:42:49.380
eggs until it rains like all this

00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:53.940
information is in all these beings that

00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.280
are in part of that are being organized

00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:59.660
by this Living Center

00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:02.640
um the pigeons

00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:06.119
ask me they they sit and they look at

00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.720
the water horses water

00:43:09.720 --> 00:43:12.300
and they've got me so I put in a a

00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:14.460
branch so they can walk down the branch

00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:16.380
and I know they're in there because they

00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.300
take baths in it and then you see they

00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:20.700
have oil it's all over the water there's

00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:23.040
something about me that's inside the

00:43:23.040 --> 00:43:25.560
pigeon's awareness

00:43:25.560 --> 00:43:28.980
thought process simulation guesses

00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:31.260
interest

00:43:31.260 --> 00:43:32.819
if there's something about the pigeon

00:43:32.819 --> 00:43:34.619
that's inside of me

00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:36.020
and

00:43:36.020 --> 00:43:39.119
whatever's organizing that this place is

00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:41.460
organizing it in fact this place is like

00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:43.380
kind of a swirl down here and you get

00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:45.480
this sense of like

00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:46.800
um so

00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:49.980
you can find uh the same thing with the

00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:51.720
horses when we're standing there they

00:43:51.720 --> 00:43:53.520
organize themselves and then all of a

00:43:53.520 --> 00:43:56.040
sudden you think ah this is a this is

00:43:56.040 --> 00:43:58.319
like a solar system it's perfect somehow

00:43:58.319 --> 00:44:00.960
we put our bodies here and the horses

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.339
put our bodies here and then someone

00:44:02.339 --> 00:44:03.720
says

00:44:03.720 --> 00:44:06.839
wow this feels perfect why because it's

00:44:06.839 --> 00:44:11.579
organized itself into a living center

00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:13.500
and when you work with the horses as

00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:16.560
Aaron knows there's this point in space

00:44:16.560 --> 00:44:18.960
that you and the horse are always the

00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.000
point moves and you and the horse are

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.339
always playing with it put the horse on

00:44:23.339 --> 00:44:25.140
the circle where is the center of the

00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:27.540
circle well that point is there and not

00:44:27.540 --> 00:44:29.160
there at the same time but both the

00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:30.900
horse and the person

00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:33.900
if you're aware of it and you can attend

00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:36.720
to it at the same time you can do these

00:44:36.720 --> 00:44:40.440
remarkable things with the horses so

00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.780
um if I draw a circle where is the

00:44:42.780 --> 00:44:45.119
center well the center unless I put a

00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.359
dot there it's not there

00:44:48.359 --> 00:44:50.520
but it's also there

00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:55.740
at the same time right so this is what I

00:44:55.740 --> 00:44:57.420
believe this self is it's a pure

00:44:57.420 --> 00:44:59.300
abstraction what is it abstracted from

00:44:59.300 --> 00:45:04.020
something the most fundamental pattern

00:45:04.020 --> 00:45:07.440
or principle of the universe

00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:11.720
is that it's a living center

00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:16.880
and that gets stamped into us

00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:19.920
directly because

00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:23.180
it's our habitat

00:45:31.140 --> 00:45:33.740
and you were talking I was

00:45:33.740 --> 00:45:37.319
reminded of the image that came up I

00:45:37.319 --> 00:45:38.339
don't know

00:45:38.339 --> 00:45:42.599
several weeks ago a flash mob

00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:44.220
and

00:45:44.220 --> 00:45:46.319
being in it and not knowing you're in it

00:45:46.319 --> 00:45:48.500
or being in it and being

00:45:48.500 --> 00:45:52.260
you know okay so this is good a flash

00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:56.040
mod is walking around the I like them

00:45:56.040 --> 00:45:58.200
when they're in the walls they're

00:45:58.200 --> 00:45:59.760
walking around the mall and they're

00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.940
externally related to everybody else

00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:05.099
but only the ones that are going to be

00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:08.099
the flash mob are internally related to

00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.660
each other because they have the same

00:46:09.660 --> 00:46:11.819
we're going to be a flash mob and so

00:46:11.819 --> 00:46:14.060
they are you see how it works

00:46:14.060 --> 00:46:16.020
they are

00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:18.900
that's a you see what these terms mean

00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:22.560
so they are a functional unit because

00:46:22.560 --> 00:46:24.839
they've opened their Gap Junctions

00:46:24.839 --> 00:46:26.160
basically

00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:28.920
by having this shared we're going to do

00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:29.700
this

00:46:29.700 --> 00:46:32.579
it doesn't come from if we all agree

00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:33.900
we're going to do the flash mob then

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:36.300
this thing this agreement lives in me

00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:40.680
lives in you and I don't once I don't I

00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:43.200
don't respond to you we've opened our

00:46:43.200 --> 00:46:45.359
Gap Junctions to each other whereas

00:46:45.359 --> 00:46:47.339
everybody else is like looking at us

00:46:47.339 --> 00:46:50.160
they're externally related they're

00:46:50.160 --> 00:46:52.619
wondering what's going on

00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.819
you see the difference

00:46:58.319 --> 00:47:00.960
and we're internally related to the self

00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:03.800
of the universe

00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:08.099
and externally related to the universe

00:47:08.099 --> 00:47:10.319
by looking at it and walking around in

00:47:10.319 --> 00:47:13.260
it this is this is

00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:16.980
what I consider uh Whitehead's key

00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:20.040
contribution to philosophy and science

00:47:20.040 --> 00:47:22.740
is this distinction

00:47:22.740 --> 00:47:26.460
between internal and external relations

00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:29.040
and we we think we see this is the

00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:31.319
missing piece for example John verbati

00:47:31.319 --> 00:47:33.060
everybody's externally related through

00:47:33.060 --> 00:47:36.420
opponent processing or the network

00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:38.400
connection let's all get connected it's

00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.200
all external relationships

00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.020
now they're important what you need is

00:47:46.020 --> 00:47:51.619
you need both to have a living center

00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.020
so where is

00:47:55.020 --> 00:47:58.819
The Flash mobness

00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:01.980
well it's in the people but it's there

00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:03.660
and not there at the same time you're

00:48:03.660 --> 00:48:05.760
not going to go looking for inside the

00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.260
people and see

00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:11.780
a little pill that's

00:48:12.180 --> 00:48:17.060
uh time releasing Flash mobness

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.040
that'd be cool give it like a pill that

00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:23.960
time releases like certain behaviors

00:48:29.520 --> 00:48:31.740
I was trying to listen to your

00:48:31.740 --> 00:48:35.660
conversation with John viveki and um

00:48:35.660 --> 00:48:37.920
emerge yeah

00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.140
and exactly what you're talking about

00:48:40.140 --> 00:48:41.460
like

00:48:41.460 --> 00:48:43.260
that

00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:47.280
the external relationships were there

00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:49.980
but Thomas and I were sharing an

00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:52.980
internal relationship yeah and John he

00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:55.619
was just flailing out there like John

00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:59.700
you're out there flailing like yeah it

00:48:59.700 --> 00:49:01.740
was just that's what's the problem with

00:49:01.740 --> 00:49:04.380
deal logos is as long as it's construed

00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:07.200
as externally relating or that the need

00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:08.579
for us

00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:10.740
to actually be internally related

00:49:10.740 --> 00:49:13.260
requires an external

00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:16.859
thing yeah

00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:19.980
um it's the opposite in order for us to

00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:21.599
dialogue we need to be internally

00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:26.220
related and uh and to recognize that

00:49:26.220 --> 00:49:28.400
um

00:49:28.560 --> 00:49:31.140
it's it's it's cut you know the horses

00:49:31.140 --> 00:49:34.339
before the cart there

00:49:34.560 --> 00:49:39.200
the horses were born Descartes get it

00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:43.560
foreign

00:49:44.220 --> 00:49:47.300
that's good funny

00:49:53.220 --> 00:49:57.079
I think there for you is

00:49:57.640 --> 00:50:00.359
[Music]

00:50:00.359 --> 00:50:04.619
so it also solves this space thing like

00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:07.140
because we space practices are looking

00:50:07.140 --> 00:50:10.619
for some superordinate being that's

00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:15.260
going to uh subtend all the individuals

00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:18.200
but that's that's that's that's that's

00:50:18.200 --> 00:50:21.060
the mass agglutination of external

00:50:21.060 --> 00:50:22.500
relations

00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:25.200
we space practice is the development of

00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:28.099
internal relations

00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:31.920
they'd be better off as a flash mob

00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:34.380
they'd be good off as of last month now

00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:36.560
as

00:50:39.359 --> 00:50:43.079
a stop denigrating these fun ways of

00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:45.180
Being Human because there's a lot you

00:50:45.180 --> 00:50:47.700
know so uh Phoebe brought up there's a

00:50:47.700 --> 00:50:48.599
lot

00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.059
of this stuff all the a lot of the stuff

00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:53.220
that we're trying to do in spiritual

00:50:53.220 --> 00:50:55.619
communities happens it's not trivial in

00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:57.720
a flash mob or these are great and then

00:50:57.720 --> 00:50:59.760
you say what is it like

00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:01.800
I want to do more of that intentionally

00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:04.619
but not do something you know like you

00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:08.480
can we don't have to reinvent the wheel

00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:13.319
yeah there's something about playing

00:51:13.319 --> 00:51:17.160
more music playing more games dancing

00:51:17.160 --> 00:51:19.920
having more time just hanging out with

00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.319
people I think that actually creates

00:51:22.319 --> 00:51:24.660
more Community than

00:51:24.660 --> 00:51:26.339
sitting in a circle and talking about

00:51:26.339 --> 00:51:27.540
how are you going to create the

00:51:27.540 --> 00:51:29.819
community

00:51:29.819 --> 00:51:31.680
um

00:51:31.680 --> 00:51:34.160
yeah

00:51:35.819 --> 00:51:39.420
my next uh well there's one before

00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:41.280
Socrates that's coming out it's called

00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.579
the love songs of gadwise

00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:46.920
but the next one's called squaring the

00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:51.319
circle and it makes exactly this point

00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.200
um

00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:01.920
now having said that

00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:04.319
um I get it people are in the Hopeless

00:52:04.319 --> 00:52:06.660
con present condition of not having

00:52:06.660 --> 00:52:08.520
Community not being able to hang out

00:52:08.520 --> 00:52:11.000
with people

00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:15.359
so it's kind of like you know

00:52:15.359 --> 00:52:17.760
um so so

00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:21.180
these things get get

00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:22.980
um

00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:25.260
practice and kind of an artificial way

00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:26.640
it's about I guess it's better than

00:52:26.640 --> 00:52:29.280
nothing but then once you get a little

00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.140
practice in it then you should

00:52:31.140 --> 00:52:33.859
immediately

00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:38.280
try to make this reality in your real

00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:40.520
world

00:52:44.339 --> 00:52:47.099
it all seems like

00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:49.619
a lot of like

00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:52.140
you know I guess our culture is like

00:52:52.140 --> 00:52:54.900
extremely related a lot internally

00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:57.780
like not so much

00:52:57.780 --> 00:52:59.940
yeah I know I've

00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:01.920
that's like being a big thing for me

00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.200
like trying to get like like I tried

00:53:04.200 --> 00:53:06.359
like a lot of things like get internally

00:53:06.359 --> 00:53:09.300
related but it's like yeah that's a big

00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:12.059
that's a big yeah so this is the thing

00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:15.359
we are that our culture is internally

00:53:15.359 --> 00:53:18.359
related to us like the but we we we

00:53:18.359 --> 00:53:20.220
reject them now

00:53:20.220 --> 00:53:23.339
like like what your culture wants to

00:53:23.339 --> 00:53:26.040
interject into you it wants your culture

00:53:26.040 --> 00:53:27.359
wants to produce a certain kind of

00:53:27.359 --> 00:53:31.099
subjectivity to you and you reject it so

00:53:31.099 --> 00:53:33.000
uh

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.740
um and so you we so then then is like

00:53:37.740 --> 00:53:39.800
the pop-up school would we all become

00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:42.839
internally related to this it's not you

00:53:42.839 --> 00:53:45.359
know this thing the pop-up school it's

00:53:45.359 --> 00:53:47.940
not a thing it's it's the development of

00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:51.119
internal relations and so the culture

00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.099
for most people the culture is

00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:54.720
internally related to them because they

00:53:54.720 --> 00:53:56.700
let it happen but they're but there's so

00:53:56.700 --> 00:53:59.339
much now we don't we don't want I don't

00:53:59.339 --> 00:54:01.260
want to be a nine to five or I don't you

00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:03.359
can feel it trying to get into you I

00:54:03.359 --> 00:54:06.780
don't want to be like that and so

00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:09.660
um so there's a defensive you know it's

00:54:09.660 --> 00:54:12.780
very tricky so so so there's a defense

00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:16.980
or immune system response there and then

00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:19.079
um but then when you come here or

00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:23.339
something you can start to you know let

00:54:23.339 --> 00:54:26.640
people hear like when David burn bomb

00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:28.800
speaks you let him affect you there's

00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.440
something about him that you know you

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.960
let him you can feel he's shaping you

00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:36.660
your interior

00:54:36.660 --> 00:54:37.460
um

00:54:37.460 --> 00:54:40.140
he gave me one thumbs up once at the

00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:42.180
start and that was like for the whole

00:54:42.180 --> 00:54:43.859
episode I was just thinking about that

00:54:43.859 --> 00:54:45.079
one

00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.760
did it just the way he did it was yeah

00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.339
he's working on this other level and you

00:54:50.339 --> 00:54:52.800
can feel Society like if you were kid

00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:55.020
and you went to church it's trying to

00:54:55.020 --> 00:54:57.720
put to shape your interior and and then

00:54:57.720 --> 00:54:59.940
we reject it now and so

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:02.099
uh so we have to be careful we don't

00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:04.800
have like a total of immune response you

00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.680
know you're so you don't have like

00:55:06.680 --> 00:55:10.319
immune suppressors so you can let David

00:55:10.319 --> 00:55:13.020
in or let someone eat but it's hard to

00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:14.700
find

00:55:14.700 --> 00:55:19.380
yeah it's hard to it's hard to find

00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:21.359
because you what we're trying to do is

00:55:21.359 --> 00:55:25.200
let life in in our culture wants is to

00:55:25.200 --> 00:55:28.579
put more death death cult into US

00:55:28.579 --> 00:55:32.400
machine like stuff

00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.500
not all of it flash mods are cool and

00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:37.460
music's cool and

00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:41.240
so

00:55:42.240 --> 00:55:43.980
you're just describing basically my

00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:46.140
whole adult life at the moment

00:55:46.140 --> 00:55:48.800
um but

00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.579
so yeah so I guess should we like trust

00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:58.040
those immune responses but also

00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.599
I don't know like I can see a difference

00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.300
between like you know interacting with

00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:06.599
people on that cultural

00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:07.800
you know

00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.980
way where it's sort of you're you don't

00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.280
really it's like not really feeling

00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:16.200
great but then there's also like a human

00:56:16.200 --> 00:56:18.480
there I guess you could get at where

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.099
you're going you know I guess that's the

00:56:20.099 --> 00:56:21.980
flash model thing

00:56:21.980 --> 00:56:25.559
yeah it's it's a it's a developmental

00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:28.079
thing too it's like eventually

00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:31.140
you don't need an immune response to the

00:56:31.140 --> 00:56:34.260
culture because your sense of self

00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:36.599
your Living Center is so strong it's

00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:37.380
like

00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:39.839
you're not susceptible you know like

00:56:39.839 --> 00:56:42.660
like okay so at first it's important

00:56:42.660 --> 00:56:45.359
that you spend enough time in an

00:56:45.359 --> 00:56:49.020
environment that you want those codes to

00:56:49.020 --> 00:56:50.700
be put into you

00:56:50.700 --> 00:56:53.040
and not all your time in the environment

00:56:53.040 --> 00:56:54.599
where you're

00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:57.359
rejecting the codes let's say

00:56:57.359 --> 00:56:59.280
but eventually

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:02.280
the you can go into any environment and

00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:05.040
you don't feel like contracted by their

00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:07.500
 up codes you just

00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:09.540
the energy feels like it's always going

00:57:09.540 --> 00:57:12.660
in the other way I'm I'm oh my codes are

00:57:12.660 --> 00:57:14.520
getting into them

00:57:14.520 --> 00:57:17.460
without them knowing it and their codes

00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:20.819
don't have any effect on me at all

00:57:20.819 --> 00:57:25.700
basically is how you it gets to it after

00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:29.280
but at first you know this is why so

00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:31.859
many people like me I spent didn't have

00:57:31.859 --> 00:57:34.859
a job until I was 28 really I couldn't

00:57:34.859 --> 00:57:37.680
live in the world you know like I I went

00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:40.859
well Sandra knows with my friend Ward we

00:57:40.859 --> 00:57:43.260
like completely went off grid

00:57:43.260 --> 00:57:45.059
like for years

00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:47.960
uh

00:57:51.240 --> 00:57:53.460
I'm still kind of off-grid but when I go

00:57:53.460 --> 00:57:56.780
to other places like

00:57:56.940 --> 00:57:58.020
yeah

00:57:58.020 --> 00:58:00.660
that's why it was difficult talking to

00:58:00.660 --> 00:58:02.640
John because I lost contact and I was

00:58:02.640 --> 00:58:04.380
just watching him flail you didn't see

00:58:04.380 --> 00:58:06.180
the video and he's like do you see do

00:58:06.180 --> 00:58:09.000
you see Bonita like like he was very

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:11.099
careful like only Bonita like I don't

00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.160
know I was like I felt so I felt I felt

00:58:14.160 --> 00:58:16.200
embarrassed for him

00:58:16.200 --> 00:58:19.460
I didn't know what to say

00:58:32.339 --> 00:58:36.140
how old are you Matt like

00:58:37.020 --> 00:58:39.780
I'm actually like 31.

00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:41.220
but

00:58:41.220 --> 00:58:43.740
like I'm 67.

00:58:43.740 --> 00:58:46.319
I've lived you know your whole life over

00:58:46.319 --> 00:58:47.420
again

00:58:47.420 --> 00:58:52.200
and more yeah more thank you

00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:53.819
you're doing the last

00:58:53.819 --> 00:58:55.200
yeah

00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:58.380
but yeah no it's not yeah Sandra's even

00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:02.180
older that's why she's so smart

00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:06.540
so no I just keep saying that because

00:59:06.540 --> 00:59:10.140
you're in good company but but

00:59:10.140 --> 00:59:11.579
um

00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:15.299
you know when I was 31 I was I had had a

00:59:15.299 --> 00:59:16.920
job for three years that's it three or

00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:18.900
four years I never had you know and I

00:59:18.900 --> 00:59:20.099
was

00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:21.900
literally

00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:24.660
what was going on in my mind is same as

00:59:24.660 --> 00:59:27.000
you except I was you know probably even

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.299
in worse shape in terms of like what I

00:59:30.299 --> 00:59:33.440
was actually doing than you

00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:41.880
I was listening to a conversation uh a

00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:44.299
talk by Jonathan height the other day

00:59:44.299 --> 00:59:47.520
and he was asking the audience he was

00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:51.960
saying okay if you're born in 1981 or

00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:53.460
before

00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:55.740
how old were you when you were allowed

00:59:55.740 --> 00:59:58.619
to just be outside without any

00:59:58.619 --> 01:00:00.599
supervision

01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:02.940
and people were saying

01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:04.440
oh like

01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:07.880
four five six

01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:11.460
82 to I don't know 90 something how old

01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:12.420
were you

01:00:12.420 --> 01:00:14.400
nine or ten

01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:17.579
90 something and Beyond

01:00:17.579 --> 01:00:20.579
12 13 14.

01:00:20.579 --> 01:00:24.480
and that that

01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:30.420
sense of what's being interjected

01:00:30.420 --> 01:00:34.020
if we're not outside at a very young age

01:00:34.020 --> 01:00:38.299
or if we're not allowed to

01:00:39.260 --> 01:00:43.160
be awed by the world

01:00:43.160 --> 01:00:48.960
is has had such a profound impact

01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:50.839
on how

01:00:50.839 --> 01:00:54.599
that cohort that most recent cohort gets

01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.420
to show up in the world

01:00:57.420 --> 01:01:01.079
and like you Bonnie I you know had sort

01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:05.040
of sort of work from age I mean it was

01:01:05.040 --> 01:01:08.460
just feral from 22 to

01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:11.099
30 something

01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:14.160
um living

01:01:14.160 --> 01:01:17.460
with no electricity or running water and

01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:19.370
you know whatever

01:01:19.370 --> 01:01:19.440
[Music]

01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:21.440
um

01:01:21.799 --> 01:01:25.940
all this stuff was like

01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:27.900
yeah

01:01:27.900 --> 01:01:30.660
I want to show you something I just

01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:34.160
realized we could do this

01:01:36.059 --> 01:01:40.020
um okay I'm gonna show you a video that

01:01:40.020 --> 01:01:42.420
I created it's just a series of

01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:45.540
photographs uh taken by Christopher

01:01:45.540 --> 01:01:48.000
Alexander

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.760
and uh put to music

01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:52.799
and

01:01:52.799 --> 01:01:54.119
um

01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:56.940
and and there are photographs that he's

01:01:56.940 --> 01:01:59.160
used to

01:01:59.160 --> 01:02:01.160
um

01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:05.599
give us visuals of like living centers

01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:09.780
and maybe as you watch them if one or

01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:11.940
more of the photographs really appeals

01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:14.040
to you or is interesting then we can put

01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:15.480
it up and we can

01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:18.720
uh talk about it uh people can choose

01:02:18.720 --> 01:02:20.520
different ones okay

01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:21.900
so

01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:23.960
um

01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:32.599
all right so

01:02:34.859 --> 01:02:38.180
tell me why is it

01:02:38.940 --> 01:02:42.559
okay it should go

01:02:48.650 --> 01:02:51.919
[Music]

01:02:55.420 --> 01:02:58.599
[Music]

01:03:03.720 --> 01:03:06.000
hold on

01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.040
if you're listening it to it from my

01:03:08.040 --> 01:03:11.520
external speakers not from the video so

01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:14.480
I will try again

01:03:32.830 --> 01:04:08.630
[Music]

01:04:11.359 --> 01:04:13.350
thank you

01:04:13.350 --> 01:04:25.350
[Music]

01:04:25.350 --> 01:04:28.909
[Applause]

01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:34.280
thank you

01:04:38.990 --> 01:04:46.429
[Music]

01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:52.319
[Music]

01:04:52.319 --> 01:04:55.319
foreign

01:05:01.100 --> 01:05:04.260
[Music]

01:05:07.570 --> 01:05:27.090
[Music]

01:05:27.240 --> 01:05:30.240
foreign

01:05:32.200 --> 01:05:35.579
[Music]

01:05:35.579 --> 01:05:38.579
foreign

01:05:38.860 --> 01:05:51.929
[Music]

01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.780
[Music]

01:06:09.340 --> 01:06:12.519
[Music]

01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:23.299
thank you

01:06:28.270 --> 01:06:28.820
[Music]

01:06:28.820 --> 01:06:32.280
[Laughter]

01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:38.940
[Music]

01:06:41.290 --> 01:06:55.540
[Music]

01:06:55.859 --> 01:06:58.859
foreign

01:06:59.740 --> 01:07:03.400
[Music]

01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:07.340
[Laughter]

01:07:08.940 --> 01:07:12.170
[Music]

01:07:12.590 --> 01:07:17.100
[Laughter]

01:07:17.680 --> 01:07:20.989
[Music]

01:07:22.670 --> 01:07:26.180
[Laughter]

01:07:27.700 --> 01:07:30.969
[Music]

01:07:32.200 --> 01:07:35.040
[Laughter]

01:07:35.040 --> 01:07:43.489
[Music]

01:07:52.520 --> 01:07:54.920
thank you

01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:56.700
foreign

01:07:56.700 --> 01:07:59.700
foreign

01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:14.250
[Laughter]

01:08:15.810 --> 01:08:18.970
[Music]

01:08:26.149 --> 01:08:29.249
[Music]

01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:52.319
foreign

01:09:09.839 --> 01:09:12.440
foreign

01:09:19.679 --> 01:09:22.920
can you go back to the image that's just

01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:26.759
before the the centerfold image of the

01:09:26.759 --> 01:09:29.540
of the women

01:09:29.819 --> 01:09:31.940
um

01:09:32.160 --> 01:09:34.199
it's the first time I noticed that one

01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.859
and I I noticed that I couldn't

01:09:37.859 --> 01:09:40.380
at all understand what the people were

01:09:40.380 --> 01:09:42.299
doing

01:09:42.299 --> 01:09:44.819
and what it was about it that

01:09:44.819 --> 01:09:47.580
just captured my attention

01:09:47.580 --> 01:09:50.580
look

01:09:50.580 --> 01:09:54.540
uh so it's just before this one yes oh

01:09:54.540 --> 01:09:56.400
you know this is

01:09:56.400 --> 01:09:59.520
it not not that one but I love that one

01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:02.840
that's Latisse

01:10:05.280 --> 01:10:09.660
that's who Matisse really yeah

01:10:09.660 --> 01:10:12.179
oh I love that one especially because

01:10:12.179 --> 01:10:15.060
nobody's in a cage it's beautiful

01:10:15.060 --> 01:10:16.860
okay this one

01:10:16.860 --> 01:10:19.260
I think you're looking like hot dogs on

01:10:19.260 --> 01:10:20.640
sticks

01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:24.840
okay and then there's that like where's

01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:26.520
the center here this interesting

01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.420
question right yeah

01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:32.280
I was thinking about that one to me

01:10:32.280 --> 01:10:34.080
there's the

01:10:34.080 --> 01:10:36.120
folks out on the left the two people on

01:10:36.120 --> 01:10:38.520
the back with their arms kind of

01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:41.159
like the elbows in Palms out yeah

01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:43.020
there's a center here there's a center

01:10:43.020 --> 01:10:46.800
there there's it's interesting

01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:50.540
the particular Center like

01:10:57.659 --> 01:10:59.480
never mind

01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:03.000
you know look out too this could be

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:05.880
um I'm gonna use next time if you have

01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:07.460
people draw

01:11:07.460 --> 01:11:10.080
uh on the screen where they think

01:11:10.080 --> 01:11:12.860
centers are

01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:16.500
like

01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:17.880
fun

01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:20.580
when that whole video I was like fun

01:11:20.580 --> 01:11:22.560
like

01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.199
fun is at the center or Center

01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:28.679
like fun and I don't know fun I got fun

01:11:28.679 --> 01:11:30.840
yeah I put the link in if you want to

01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:33.480
play yeah play it but and then it's a

01:11:33.480 --> 01:11:35.820
music is not timed well because the last

01:11:35.820 --> 01:11:37.860
one doesn't have any music it's awful

01:11:37.860 --> 01:11:40.159
but

01:11:40.260 --> 01:11:42.360
um yeah but there's also like the one

01:11:42.360 --> 01:11:44.219
with the Pope or the Cardinal there that

01:11:44.219 --> 01:11:46.440
something really serious is going on and

01:11:46.440 --> 01:11:50.219
the one with the the the woman who's

01:11:50.219 --> 01:11:55.739
pregnant is that's a very serious uh

01:11:59.040 --> 01:12:01.920
but you know this way of

01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:03.840
you know so he's walking around the

01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.900
world and he's he's seeing these things

01:12:06.900 --> 01:12:09.000
that are there and not there at the same

01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.360
time right he he he's experiencing the

01:12:12.360 --> 01:12:16.199
world as emanations

01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.960
um and wondering about what am I seeing

01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:20.460
like what is

01:12:20.460 --> 01:12:22.800
what is that

01:12:22.800 --> 01:12:25.440
and then they won't ask the question he

01:12:25.440 --> 01:12:28.560
starts off by being an objectivist it's

01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:31.020
an objective quality of reality and by

01:12:31.020 --> 01:12:33.840
the end of you know 500

01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:36.179
000 words or four books he's like and

01:12:36.179 --> 01:12:37.940
there's something I mean seeing myself

01:12:37.940 --> 01:12:41.280
like not even a religious person what

01:12:41.280 --> 01:12:43.080
what do I mean

01:12:43.080 --> 01:12:45.900
he takes this whole journey to

01:12:45.900 --> 01:12:49.100
figuring this out

01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:03.659
I also noticed something I hadn't seen

01:13:03.659 --> 01:13:07.199
before in the in the ping pong

01:13:07.199 --> 01:13:08.880
picture

01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:11.699
there's a guy standing off to the side

01:13:11.699 --> 01:13:13.679
with so much

01:13:13.679 --> 01:13:16.620
Joy on his face

01:13:16.620 --> 01:13:17.699
um

01:13:17.699 --> 01:13:20.400
you know before I've looked at it I've

01:13:20.400 --> 01:13:23.880
looked at the the little table and the

01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:27.000
back and forth of the ping pong but that

01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.040
that

01:13:29.040 --> 01:13:34.699
Center is so visible and palpable

01:13:44.400 --> 01:13:47.460
yeah yeah I'm just reflecting what I was

01:13:47.460 --> 01:13:49.500
watching I

01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:52.860
um yeah for me like they were all like

01:13:52.860 --> 01:13:55.140
trying like I had this okay I'm trying

01:13:55.140 --> 01:13:56.699
to find what they're all intending what

01:13:56.699 --> 01:13:58.800
is like the common or like what is the

01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:01.080
the thing that the organizing build that

01:14:01.080 --> 01:14:02.940
are related towards

01:14:02.940 --> 01:14:05.280
and always this this they were funny

01:14:05.280 --> 01:14:06.960
funny laugh there was always like

01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:09.060
detectable in some way

01:14:09.060 --> 01:14:11.520
but often like okay there's seems really

01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:12.900
hidden and then there it's like

01:14:12.900 --> 01:14:15.300
especially more like really there often

01:14:15.300 --> 01:14:18.000
like for me was often a person

01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:19.500
but

01:14:19.500 --> 01:14:22.199
um but then when it's not obviously a

01:14:22.199 --> 01:14:23.880
person then it's like

01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:26.340
you know another object or something

01:14:26.340 --> 01:14:28.980
really hidden I don't know when just in

01:14:28.980 --> 01:14:30.540
the example before someone was quite

01:14:30.540 --> 01:14:33.120
interested like a empty spot that was

01:14:33.120 --> 01:14:35.760
like yeah I don't know okay

01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:37.440
um interesting

01:14:37.440 --> 01:14:39.480
yeah really fun

01:14:39.480 --> 01:14:40.980
um and then and it had also the centers

01:14:40.980 --> 01:14:42.980
that was the quality of like like

01:14:42.980 --> 01:14:45.719
calmness or like like scentedness

01:14:45.719 --> 01:14:49.100
groundedness like really pre like like

01:14:49.100 --> 01:14:53.040
auto-centric yeah yeah there's a

01:14:53.040 --> 01:14:57.060
groundedness almost like uh uh like

01:14:57.060 --> 01:14:59.100
there's a center of gravity or something

01:14:59.100 --> 01:15:01.560
but you're right once you start to point

01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:04.199
out then it becomes more elusive like

01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:06.900
it's there are not exactly there at the

01:15:06.900 --> 01:15:09.239
same time the one with the fold and

01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:11.520
those women running that one creeps me

01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:15.000
out because it's like I'm the center

01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:18.060
you know it's like like they're rushing

01:15:18.060 --> 01:15:20.400
towards the photographer or whatever or

01:15:20.400 --> 01:15:21.780
yeah I was thinking I was like Hey

01:15:21.780 --> 01:15:24.239
where's the photographer puts you right

01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:26.460
in there it like it like has so much

01:15:26.460 --> 01:15:28.199
power that

01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:31.440
you get drawn in like that you know

01:15:31.440 --> 01:15:33.420
um but what I was gonna say is one of

01:15:33.420 --> 01:15:35.219
the things that I think I keep saying

01:15:35.219 --> 01:15:37.020
and why I critique a lot of these

01:15:37.020 --> 01:15:39.600
practices is because

01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:41.580
um

01:15:41.580 --> 01:15:44.100
you know that that that phrase from

01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:46.800
miffing about the the teachers they're

01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:49.860
stealing the causal wildness I mean

01:15:49.860 --> 01:15:52.620
we've took complete complexified these

01:15:52.620 --> 01:15:55.560
things too much you know we we can't we

01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:57.780
we don't see

01:15:57.780 --> 01:15:58.860
like

01:15:58.860 --> 01:16:01.440
we don't appreciate the Busker you know

01:16:01.440 --> 01:16:04.440
the kid on the street singing in in the

01:16:04.440 --> 01:16:07.500
flash mob and we we

01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:11.340
we don't let how cool that is penetrate

01:16:11.340 --> 01:16:14.280
us in a sacred way and then we do these

01:16:14.280 --> 01:16:16.620
like weird things to try to be sacred

01:16:16.620 --> 01:16:19.020
and and and they're just too they're

01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:23.580
just too mental they're just too too I'm

01:16:23.580 --> 01:16:25.320
gonna say have stuck but I mean in this

01:16:25.320 --> 01:16:28.140
other way we conceptually think of all

01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:30.420
well let's do this and then we can have

01:16:30.420 --> 01:16:32.760
a meaningful relationship

01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:34.739
and

01:16:34.739 --> 01:16:37.679
um and

01:16:37.679 --> 01:16:41.000
and then you end up having young people

01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:43.739
intellectually trying to figure out how

01:16:43.739 --> 01:16:45.239
to have a meaningful relationship

01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:47.400
because they're not they're not there's

01:16:47.400 --> 01:16:49.980
not a lot of instances of it you know

01:16:49.980 --> 01:16:54.120
it's really we've gutted like this this

01:16:54.120 --> 01:16:57.179
in society we've gutted this aspect of

01:16:57.179 --> 01:17:00.120
society and it's really hurtful to hold

01:17:00.120 --> 01:17:02.699
generations and

01:17:02.699 --> 01:17:04.760
um

01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:09.659
and we're not being retro romantic we're

01:17:09.659 --> 01:17:11.940
saying these are pure abstractions these

01:17:11.940 --> 01:17:15.300
are very high metacognitive things we're

01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:17.820
looking at but

01:17:17.820 --> 01:17:20.940
it's the ability to see them

01:17:20.940 --> 01:17:24.000
in the ordinary and to see that this is

01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:28.320
an ordinary natural intelligence is

01:17:28.320 --> 01:17:30.420
to me what's important you know we're

01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:34.699
not we're not dealing with simple

01:17:36.060 --> 01:17:40.860
we're not dealing with simple Notions

01:17:44.520 --> 01:17:47.719
when I when I saw those all those photos

01:17:47.719 --> 01:17:50.460
especially the ping pong one that kind

01:17:50.460 --> 01:17:52.320
of and then also the one where the

01:17:52.320 --> 01:17:55.260
frying the the hot dogs

01:17:55.260 --> 01:17:59.699
um I reminded like like of like I like

01:17:59.699 --> 01:18:01.920
last year I went to Thailand for a bit I

01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:03.540
just got back from Italy I did a little

01:18:03.540 --> 01:18:05.880
trip and like

01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:08.400
it seems those places have more

01:18:08.400 --> 01:18:12.000
affordances for those just natural

01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:14.940
people doing stuff like I talked to one

01:18:14.940 --> 01:18:16.679
woman you know there's not a lot of

01:18:16.679 --> 01:18:19.020
regulations in Thailand for like opening

01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:21.360
a business so she had an art studio and

01:18:21.360 --> 01:18:23.400
then she just opened a cafe and sold you

01:18:23.400 --> 01:18:25.440
know a Marijuana Cafe and it was and

01:18:25.440 --> 01:18:27.960
then she had a hostel up top and like

01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:30.480
and in Italy like you just you know I

01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:32.520
was walking around and like you know the

01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:34.620
area I was in looked looked sketchy but

01:18:34.620 --> 01:18:36.120
then there's a group of eight-year-olds

01:18:36.120 --> 01:18:38.040
just hanging out with no no adults

01:18:38.040 --> 01:18:40.980
around no no no nobody it's just hanging

01:18:40.980 --> 01:18:42.120
out and like

01:18:42.120 --> 01:18:45.120
I don't know it just seems easier I mean

01:18:45.120 --> 01:18:47.640
obviously pros and cons but like yeah it

01:18:47.640 --> 01:18:49.739
just seems easier

01:18:49.739 --> 01:18:52.860
yeah because the the culture hasn't

01:18:52.860 --> 01:18:54.780
gutted the communal self we called it

01:18:54.780 --> 01:18:58.080
the communal self earlier it's

01:18:58.080 --> 01:19:00.000
um and

01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:00.840
um

01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.420
you know the other thing is when you go

01:19:03.420 --> 01:19:06.480
to these cities that have been cleaned

01:19:06.480 --> 01:19:09.600
up let's say you can still find that but

01:19:09.600 --> 01:19:11.880
they appear to be deviant because

01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:13.800
they're considered deviant

01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:16.020
you know like it God forbid you walk

01:19:16.020 --> 01:19:17.699
through Central Park and of course some

01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:20.580
of them are actually dangerous but like

01:19:20.580 --> 01:19:24.120
to have uh

01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:32.520
there's a lot of there's a lot of

01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:35.520
confusion around modern values like what

01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:38.580
is what is more life

01:19:38.580 --> 01:19:41.580
um what it organizes more life

01:19:41.580 --> 01:19:42.300
um

01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:43.980
you know we've been stripped of

01:19:43.980 --> 01:19:46.980
everything except GDP

01:19:46.980 --> 01:19:48.840
we don't even produce anything anymore

01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:51.360
we just just Finance on finance right

01:19:51.360 --> 01:19:53.159
it's just

01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:56.940
we don't produce goods and services

01:19:56.940 --> 01:20:00.140
I gotta rant again about

01:20:00.140 --> 01:20:04.320
so contrasting that you know you're like

01:20:04.320 --> 01:20:05.940
thailanded to leave these other past

01:20:05.940 --> 01:20:08.340
places

01:20:08.340 --> 01:20:09.540
um

01:20:09.540 --> 01:20:11.880
I went it was a guy like a couple months

01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:14.340
ago so I live in Vancouver there's this

01:20:14.340 --> 01:20:18.000
new huge development and like

01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.040
I walked around and you know how they do

01:20:20.040 --> 01:20:21.540
like the skyscrapers and then they have

01:20:21.540 --> 01:20:23.100
like malls they build malls where they

01:20:23.100 --> 01:20:24.659
try to include everything like oh

01:20:24.659 --> 01:20:27.239
there's the dental it felt like a like

01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:28.620
at Disneyland or something like

01:20:28.620 --> 01:20:30.179
everything was fake

01:20:30.179 --> 01:20:32.699
it was it was I don't know I don't know

01:20:32.699 --> 01:20:36.000
why you saw that too in Vancouver I was

01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:37.679
very disappointed in Vancouver actually

01:20:37.679 --> 01:20:40.860
I liked Seattle a lot better but

01:20:40.860 --> 01:20:41.580
um

01:20:41.580 --> 01:20:44.219
we went to like a shopping district in

01:20:44.219 --> 01:20:46.920
Vancouver and all you saw were Asian

01:20:46.920 --> 01:20:49.679
women with no hips I mean I'm just like

01:20:49.679 --> 01:20:51.840
how do those legs stay on it couldn't

01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:54.600
like I was fascinated with like

01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:56.640
they were like stick figures talk about

01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:59.280
like someone the other day in the last

01:20:59.280 --> 01:21:01.980
course said we're 72 dimensional beings

01:21:01.980 --> 01:21:05.100
these were like little stick figures and

01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:06.480
they were shopping they were just

01:21:06.480 --> 01:21:09.360
shopping everything was just Asian you

01:21:09.360 --> 01:21:11.820
know spoiled Rich Asians

01:21:11.820 --> 01:21:15.360
shopping and everything was just and

01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:16.800
then we turned the corner and then they

01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:19.199
had these like homeless whole blocks

01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:21.239
that people let homeless people live and

01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:23.960
you think like

01:21:23.960 --> 01:21:29.159
and then weird things like uh um oh but

01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:30.960
I saw those things too like there was

01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:33.360
this apartment building that went up and

01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:35.820
then they had this grocery store and

01:21:35.820 --> 01:21:38.159
it's so for example you could live in

01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:42.300
that one uh facility and never go out

01:21:42.300 --> 01:21:45.000
they had made it such that that was the

01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:46.580
case it's the same thing in Philadelphia

01:21:46.580 --> 01:21:49.380
it's not like big buildings but they

01:21:49.380 --> 01:21:52.739
take like seven blocks and they put like

01:21:52.739 --> 01:21:56.219
housing and so you you live in a living

01:21:56.219 --> 01:21:58.500
apartment it's relatively cheap it's

01:21:58.500 --> 01:22:00.060
small but then there's all these common

01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:03.120
areas where you can rent the you know I

01:22:03.120 --> 01:22:04.800
mean this actually sounds Progressive

01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:07.260
where you can rent a Lobby you can go

01:22:07.260 --> 01:22:09.179
and watch TV and you have the gym and

01:22:09.179 --> 01:22:10.860
this and that and then let her outside

01:22:10.860 --> 01:22:12.659
they have all these restaurants and

01:22:12.659 --> 01:22:15.480
shops and you could literally you know

01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:19.380
it's like one of these self-enclosed

01:22:19.380 --> 01:22:23.219
Village you know towns in in Florida

01:22:23.219 --> 01:22:26.040
except they're it's just instead of

01:22:26.040 --> 01:22:27.719
being surrounded by Beach it's

01:22:27.719 --> 01:22:30.659
surrounded by highways but it's this

01:22:30.659 --> 01:22:33.440
completely intellectually

01:22:33.440 --> 01:22:38.400
designed and programmed uh White Western

01:22:38.400 --> 01:22:41.280
modern

01:22:41.280 --> 01:22:43.560
um Cosmopolitan reality you know

01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:45.480
regardless whether they're Asian women

01:22:45.480 --> 01:22:48.659
it's the same it's not a it's not based

01:22:48.659 --> 01:22:52.500
upon race or anything right it's just

01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:55.620
um and

01:22:56.940 --> 01:22:58.980
but then there's another weird thing so

01:22:58.980 --> 01:23:00.719
right in the middle of that

01:23:00.719 --> 01:23:04.020
between where the Shoppers were and the

01:23:04.020 --> 01:23:06.659
homeless people camps were

01:23:06.659 --> 01:23:09.540
there was like a Chinatown right

01:23:09.540 --> 01:23:13.080
and but it was like

01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:17.400
it was like a caricature of Chinatown

01:23:17.400 --> 01:23:19.920
like it was like the kind of Chinatown

01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:23.040
you find that's outside of China

01:23:23.040 --> 01:23:26.880
like it was trying to be a like the what

01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:29.219
was that market that they say covid

01:23:29.219 --> 01:23:32.159
started in it was like a Wuhan mark it

01:23:32.159 --> 01:23:33.960
was trying but of course the wound on

01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:35.400
Market is huge

01:23:35.400 --> 01:23:38.280
but you'd go in and like all these

01:23:38.280 --> 01:23:41.420
tourists were really excited about

01:23:41.420 --> 01:23:43.320
buying like

01:23:43.320 --> 01:23:46.260
chicken that were just slaughtered and

01:23:46.260 --> 01:23:50.040
hanging from Hooks and stuff but

01:23:50.040 --> 01:23:53.159
it was like

01:23:53.159 --> 01:23:56.820
like you okay you buy your fish still

01:23:56.820 --> 01:23:57.960
alive

01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:01.739
but they're in this Cesspool of a tank

01:24:01.739 --> 01:24:04.320
and one of the fish is dead already

01:24:04.320 --> 01:24:07.440
and it was like it was like this

01:24:07.440 --> 01:24:10.620
ideology of being a tourist and and

01:24:10.620 --> 01:24:14.460
buying like from a food market but it

01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:15.300
was

01:24:15.300 --> 01:24:17.760
so toxic because it was in the middle of

01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:21.480
Vancouver and it's it and it was just

01:24:21.480 --> 01:24:24.300
like I walk around like

01:24:24.300 --> 01:24:27.300
I just don't get

01:24:27.300 --> 01:24:31.500
people I like I just it's just I'm not

01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:33.540
in charge so this is the thing I walked

01:24:33.540 --> 01:24:35.100
through Vancouver and there's nothing

01:24:35.100 --> 01:24:38.159
internally related to me so all I see is

01:24:38.159 --> 01:24:40.860
it for what it is whereas like

01:24:40.860 --> 01:24:43.020
people walk into the China food and they

01:24:43.020 --> 01:24:45.360
have this ideology and they feel like oh

01:24:45.360 --> 01:24:47.040
we're gonna buy from Chinatown they

01:24:47.040 --> 01:24:48.659
don't see that like and they have this

01:24:48.659 --> 01:24:50.699
feeling oh fresh fish I'll take that one

01:24:50.699 --> 01:24:52.620
and they feel like they're fishing they

01:24:52.620 --> 01:24:54.300
feel like they went fishing for their

01:24:54.300 --> 01:24:57.239
food in the fish are in a tank

01:24:57.239 --> 01:24:59.760
where like balloons already dead

01:24:59.760 --> 01:25:01.080
it's broken

01:25:01.080 --> 01:25:04.380
any killing me you know like

01:25:04.380 --> 01:25:07.080
like that's healthier than getting fresh

01:25:07.080 --> 01:25:09.480
frozen you know they they go and they

01:25:09.480 --> 01:25:12.060
freeze the fish on the boat right like

01:25:12.060 --> 01:25:15.300
like just like what's in the internal

01:25:15.300 --> 01:25:19.380
reality of people is just I just

01:25:19.380 --> 01:25:23.460
I don't get it I I just it doesn't

01:25:23.460 --> 01:25:29.000
it's Bizarro to me it's bizarre

01:25:31.020 --> 01:25:33.900
it's like the Cosmopolitan self trying

01:25:33.900 --> 01:25:36.960
to pretend it's the communal self or

01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:39.060
some or the indigenous or something yes

01:25:39.060 --> 01:25:41.699
it's become ideological but then they go

01:25:41.699 --> 01:25:43.800
shopping you know all these

01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:47.600
all these these like yeah

01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:48.900
it's just

01:25:48.900 --> 01:25:51.480
and then people it's just ridiculous you

01:25:51.480 --> 01:25:53.540
know

01:25:53.580 --> 01:25:55.500
in Vietnam we had there were people

01:25:55.500 --> 01:25:58.739
talking about 50-minute cities like in

01:25:58.739 --> 01:26:00.420
around 50 minutes you can get everywhere

01:26:00.420 --> 01:26:02.520
everything and

01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:05.520
I don't know I just remember like yo

01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:07.080
what was the problem like it's a good

01:26:07.080 --> 01:26:09.239
idea right I mean

01:26:09.239 --> 01:26:11.580
I don't know but it's like so organized

01:26:11.580 --> 01:26:12.739
so

01:26:12.739 --> 01:26:15.380
Cosmopolitan Italian

01:26:15.380 --> 01:26:19.620
organized then right yeah

01:26:19.620 --> 01:26:23.159
do you ever watch this video this video

01:26:23.159 --> 01:26:26.900
Channel Adam something

01:26:26.940 --> 01:26:29.400
he's he's

01:26:29.400 --> 01:26:31.800
I'll put it I'll put it in I should do

01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:33.560
it he's

01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:35.219
brutal

01:26:35.219 --> 01:26:38.940
like he he he's looking like in Saudi

01:26:38.940 --> 01:26:41.880
Arabia they're building this like pencil

01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:44.940
thing it's just like

01:26:44.940 --> 01:26:46.980
the stupidest first of all they're

01:26:46.980 --> 01:26:48.480
building it where there's

01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:50.520
tons of space

01:26:50.520 --> 01:26:53.820
and the amount of engineering like and

01:26:53.820 --> 01:26:55.199
and

01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:57.900
they say it's going to be sustainable

01:26:57.900 --> 01:27:00.360
but it isn't because it's too complex

01:27:00.360 --> 01:27:04.080
you know and and he's just like

01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:08.820
Jesus you know like he just he's

01:27:08.820 --> 01:27:11.880
just he's an architect and he just like

01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:14.820
talks about how stupid and he

01:27:14.820 --> 01:27:16.440
talks about like

01:27:16.440 --> 01:27:19.860
these proposals for building these trams

01:27:19.860 --> 01:27:22.800
in cities you know because

01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:25.080
and he's just like he shows how much

01:27:25.080 --> 01:27:27.060
worse they are than buses and either

01:27:27.060 --> 01:27:30.000
even worse than cars and on and on and

01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:32.280
on it just shows how like all these I

01:27:32.280 --> 01:27:36.080
these ideological movements are really

01:27:36.080 --> 01:27:39.900
you know really stupid as he

01:27:39.900 --> 01:27:42.300
says and

01:27:42.300 --> 01:27:43.380
um

01:27:43.380 --> 01:27:47.400
yeah and I don't think he uh

01:27:47.400 --> 01:27:49.520
um

01:27:56.639 --> 01:27:59.040
let's see

01:27:59.040 --> 01:27:59.820
um

01:27:59.820 --> 01:28:02.040
you should just they should just like if

01:28:02.040 --> 01:28:05.400
they're good at design a city or a town

01:28:05.400 --> 01:28:07.260
or something they should just put all

01:28:07.260 --> 01:28:09.239
the material someplace get the people to

01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:11.699
go and they build their own stuff

01:28:11.699 --> 01:28:14.699
exactly

01:28:14.940 --> 01:28:19.159
uh what we're doing about

01:28:19.620 --> 01:28:21.739
um

01:28:23.780 --> 01:28:27.260
uh let's see

01:28:31.440 --> 01:28:34.620
along that line Matt I was

01:28:34.620 --> 01:28:38.760
um in North Carolina not long ago and

01:28:38.760 --> 01:28:41.699
looking at visiting the Black Mountain

01:28:41.699 --> 01:28:44.280
College Museum

01:28:44.280 --> 01:28:47.280
and at Black Mountain College they just

01:28:47.280 --> 01:28:50.699
the faculty the students got a bunch of

01:28:50.699 --> 01:28:54.719
materials they built the buildings they

01:28:54.719 --> 01:28:56.460
you know just

01:28:56.460 --> 01:28:58.500
in some way they were their own flash

01:28:58.500 --> 01:29:01.199
mob around education

01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:07.520
and all of that it has so much potential

01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:13.500
that's how um some of those pictures

01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:17.159
with the Japanese students that was uh

01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:19.800
Christopher Alexander building uh campus

01:29:19.800 --> 01:29:24.860
in Japan and he built it with them

01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:43.800
there's something about this um

01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.920
deep craving for something real

01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:48.480
or something

01:29:48.480 --> 01:29:51.420
from the past right like a lot of these

01:29:51.420 --> 01:29:52.739
developments

01:29:52.739 --> 01:29:55.080
seem to be wanting to recreate something

01:29:55.080 --> 01:29:57.000
like a village like I'm in this Village

01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.219
and I can get out I know the Baker and I

01:29:59.219 --> 01:30:01.739
know at the time of completion then it's

01:30:01.739 --> 01:30:04.260
up to 74 400 people

01:30:04.260 --> 01:30:06.739
sorry

01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:08.699
oh

01:30:08.699 --> 01:30:10.820
um

01:30:10.920 --> 01:30:14.840
I just remember when I was uh

01:30:14.840 --> 01:30:17.639
when I lived in Boston I would go to

01:30:17.639 --> 01:30:19.199
these restaurants and I realized like

01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:21.900
all the restaurants I went to had wooden

01:30:21.900 --> 01:30:25.020
signs like signs made of old crates and

01:30:25.020 --> 01:30:27.480
like kind of like weathered wood

01:30:27.480 --> 01:30:29.400
and I was like what is this oh I'm just

01:30:29.400 --> 01:30:30.840
trying to like

01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:34.260
pretend I'm living in a barn I'm trying

01:30:34.260 --> 01:30:36.900
to like be more

01:30:36.900 --> 01:30:39.719
um I want to be connected to my food

01:30:39.719 --> 01:30:42.420
more even though all the food from the

01:30:42.420 --> 01:30:44.219
restaurants is coming factory farms and

01:30:44.219 --> 01:30:46.159
it's it's really

01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:50.040
yeah it's like

01:30:50.040 --> 01:30:51.420
almost like

01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:53.699
image was what was sustaining me because

01:30:53.699 --> 01:30:55.260
there was nothing else so I had to at

01:30:55.260 --> 01:30:56.580
least like

01:30:56.580 --> 01:30:58.860
buy something from a package that looked

01:30:58.860 --> 01:31:01.500
more wholesome you know

01:31:01.500 --> 01:31:03.620
um

01:31:06.420 --> 01:31:09.060
yeah it's like it's like we we Intuit we

01:31:09.060 --> 01:31:11.040
want to get to that place but we we

01:31:11.040 --> 01:31:12.719
don't we're not

01:31:12.719 --> 01:31:15.600
connecting on actually doing it or

01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:17.840
whatever

01:31:20.280 --> 01:31:22.980
yeah this is something this tension that

01:31:22.980 --> 01:31:25.880
I live with like

01:31:28.679 --> 01:31:31.080
like part of me wants to live more like

01:31:31.080 --> 01:31:33.120
in my barn

01:31:33.120 --> 01:31:34.920
and then part of me

01:31:34.920 --> 01:31:36.900
I shouldn't I hate that those that

01:31:36.900 --> 01:31:41.780
phrase but so I oscillate so

01:31:44.460 --> 01:31:48.600
sometimes I want so I want to live in my

01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:50.460
house as if I'm living in a tiny house

01:31:50.460 --> 01:31:52.260
let me say that I don't want a tiny

01:31:52.260 --> 01:31:56.699
house but I want to relate to my house

01:31:56.699 --> 01:31:59.520
as if I and then sometimes I want like I

01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:02.580
wish I could upgrade my house

01:32:02.580 --> 01:32:06.000
so it isn't like disgusting in many ways

01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:08.820
it's not really finished

01:32:08.820 --> 01:32:11.280
and then and then so and then sometimes

01:32:11.280 --> 01:32:13.679
I wish I just went and lived in my barn

01:32:13.679 --> 01:32:14.880
like

01:32:14.880 --> 01:32:17.100
and then I noticed like where do these

01:32:17.100 --> 01:32:19.080
different

01:32:19.080 --> 01:32:20.960
these different

01:32:20.960 --> 01:32:24.480
dispositional States come from so when I

01:32:24.480 --> 01:32:26.280
want to live more in my barn I feel this

01:32:26.280 --> 01:32:28.500
disposition like I just want to melt

01:32:28.500 --> 01:32:29.820
into nature

01:32:29.820 --> 01:32:33.480
like and not bother not bother putting

01:32:33.480 --> 01:32:36.719
up so many walls between you and nature

01:32:36.719 --> 01:32:39.840
and this is like it's hard because like

01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:41.940
one of the things about our house is we

01:32:41.940 --> 01:32:43.860
have all this as you know this

01:32:43.860 --> 01:32:45.420
landscaping and planting and when you

01:32:45.420 --> 01:32:47.639
plant real close to your house and

01:32:47.639 --> 01:32:50.460
extend then your house starts to rot and

01:32:50.460 --> 01:32:52.560
then you like feel like I want to chop

01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:54.139
it all down and

01:32:54.139 --> 01:32:56.699
do all these improvements but then you'd

01:32:56.699 --> 01:32:59.820
be living in this this this kind of

01:32:59.820 --> 01:33:02.400
sterile environment and so there's this

01:33:02.400 --> 01:33:04.620
I guess it's that Verge thing you were

01:33:04.620 --> 01:33:07.500
talking about that that it's not the

01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:09.780
center but it's like this interplay

01:33:09.780 --> 01:33:12.179
between

01:33:12.179 --> 01:33:15.179
how far into nature can I actually exist

01:33:15.179 --> 01:33:18.179
and

01:33:20.100 --> 01:33:23.460
and I noticed that my different modes of

01:33:23.460 --> 01:33:25.699
being

01:33:26.699 --> 01:33:31.440
uh are just predispose me to enjoying

01:33:31.440 --> 01:33:32.880
one and not the other like if I'm

01:33:32.880 --> 01:33:35.880
writing all the day and it's raining and

01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:38.040
muddy and yucky outside I really hate

01:33:38.040 --> 01:33:40.800
going outside but if I'm gardening all

01:33:40.800 --> 01:33:44.280
day and I'm in that mode then when I

01:33:44.280 --> 01:33:47.100
come in here I really hate like books

01:33:47.100 --> 01:33:49.679
and stuff like once you get into the

01:33:49.679 --> 01:33:52.620
flow you kind of get absorbed by the

01:33:52.620 --> 01:33:55.080
environment and

01:33:55.080 --> 01:33:57.739
and

01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:05.880
yeah and I'm always I'm always unsure

01:34:05.880 --> 01:34:09.480
when people come here how are they going

01:34:09.480 --> 01:34:12.000
to fixate on

01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:13.860
how comfortable it is or how

01:34:13.860 --> 01:34:15.540
uncomfortable it is you know like

01:34:15.540 --> 01:34:19.139
there's a there's there's an interesting

01:34:19.139 --> 01:34:22.199
or are they gonna think oh you know it's

01:34:22.199 --> 01:34:24.600
too Suburban or are they gonna think

01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.580
it's it's kind of disgusting

01:34:29.219 --> 01:34:32.340
it's an interesting but I noticed that

01:34:32.340 --> 01:34:33.540
you know

01:34:33.540 --> 01:34:36.600
so these These are kind of

01:34:36.600 --> 01:34:40.219
what kind of displaced by all these

01:34:40.219 --> 01:34:42.020
values

01:34:42.020 --> 01:34:45.179
that's that's we swim in you know these

01:34:45.179 --> 01:34:49.159
competing values that we swim in

01:34:52.560 --> 01:34:56.400
Aaron was great he came with his little

01:34:56.400 --> 01:34:59.340
hammock tent

01:34:59.340 --> 01:35:02.820
and just just put it up in the barn and

01:35:02.820 --> 01:35:04.560
I was like I'm gonna actually it's like

01:35:04.560 --> 01:35:06.300
I'm gonna do that and I realized it was

01:35:06.300 --> 01:35:08.100
a fantasy I wasn't gonna actually do

01:35:08.100 --> 01:35:10.380
that but then you know it's like why

01:35:10.380 --> 01:35:12.600
can't I just do that when I just rent

01:35:12.600 --> 01:35:15.300
out the house and live in the barn like

01:35:15.300 --> 01:35:18.480
that would be cool but

01:35:18.480 --> 01:35:21.500
is that possible

01:35:24.860 --> 01:35:27.360
yeah it was actually such a pleasure to

01:35:27.360 --> 01:35:29.400
sleep near the horses

01:35:29.400 --> 01:35:31.440
and every time I turned like in the tent

01:35:31.440 --> 01:35:34.020
you know Ducks would quack like every

01:35:34.020 --> 01:35:36.620
movement every sound I made was like

01:35:36.620 --> 01:35:39.239
echoed by all the living beings around

01:35:39.239 --> 01:35:41.040
me

01:35:41.040 --> 01:35:43.080
yeah

01:35:43.080 --> 01:35:45.840
when I used to do 100 miles doing spaces

01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:48.540
and you'd go Trail and you try you know

01:35:48.540 --> 01:35:50.100
take the trailer out with the horse to

01:35:50.100 --> 01:35:52.080
this to what happened you know I was

01:35:52.080 --> 01:35:53.940
sleep I used to sleep with my horse with

01:35:53.940 --> 01:35:56.880
Gypsy sleep with gypsy makes all the

01:35:56.880 --> 01:35:58.560
difference in the world between the kind

01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:01.199
of internal relationship you can have

01:36:01.199 --> 01:36:04.739
with the younger ones they're they're

01:36:04.739 --> 01:36:07.080
not so

01:36:07.080 --> 01:36:09.420
they're almost so much depth of

01:36:09.420 --> 01:36:11.580
personality

01:36:11.580 --> 01:36:13.020
because they've been treated more like

01:36:13.020 --> 01:36:15.980
horses you know

01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:24.540
but I just say that because everybody to

01:36:24.540 --> 01:36:27.719
notice that maybe I'm over here more in

01:36:27.719 --> 01:36:30.480
nature but this toggle between

01:36:30.480 --> 01:36:33.600
how Cosmopolitan you can feel that you

01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:35.960
want to be Cosmopolitan because

01:36:35.960 --> 01:36:39.239
all the TV shows and all the signs of

01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:40.980
success are there

01:36:40.980 --> 01:36:43.020
and

01:36:43.020 --> 01:36:43.800
um

01:36:43.800 --> 01:36:46.800
and then you know there's people who who

01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:49.500
who trade on that right they're

01:36:49.500 --> 01:36:51.420
Cosmopolitan but then they have like

01:36:51.420 --> 01:36:53.880
these three thousand dollar glamping

01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:56.400
tents and or they go to these tree

01:36:56.400 --> 01:36:58.440
houses and pay three thousand dollars a

01:36:58.440 --> 01:36:59.340
night

01:36:59.340 --> 01:37:01.440
because they feel that too like they

01:37:01.440 --> 01:37:04.980
feel that that but then

01:37:04.980 --> 01:37:07.980
that's that doesn't that doesn't destroy

01:37:07.980 --> 01:37:11.219
your sense of Cosmopolitan success if

01:37:11.219 --> 01:37:13.080
you pay three thousand dollars to live

01:37:13.080 --> 01:37:15.659
in in a treehouse but if you actually

01:37:15.659 --> 01:37:18.000
living in a treehouse

01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:21.300
uh then you got to like what the

01:37:21.300 --> 01:37:23.699
what

01:37:23.699 --> 01:37:26.159
why am I such a loser I'm living

01:37:26.159 --> 01:37:27.719
in a treehouse

01:37:27.719 --> 01:37:32.639
you know and this is like the what we

01:37:32.639 --> 01:37:34.020
all go through

01:37:34.020 --> 01:37:36.320
foreign

01:37:43.699 --> 01:37:47.780
I want to live in a house like that

01:37:47.780 --> 01:37:52.560
oh yeah I told Ray that spending time at

01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:55.440
his house then sometimes I come back

01:37:55.440 --> 01:37:58.320
here and and I wonder what he sees but

01:37:58.320 --> 01:38:00.900
he gets it he gets it what's here you

01:38:00.900 --> 01:38:04.440
know I would never want to live have a

01:38:04.440 --> 01:38:06.360
house like rose and Marie because I

01:38:06.360 --> 01:38:08.040
would destroy it and I would feel bad

01:38:08.040 --> 01:38:09.780
about destroying it where I don't feel

01:38:09.780 --> 01:38:13.080
too bad to start putting plants on the

01:38:13.080 --> 01:38:15.420
shelves in my house like

01:38:15.420 --> 01:38:17.699
like and I know I would destroy it like

01:38:17.699 --> 01:38:19.260
my mother's like are you gonna take my

01:38:19.260 --> 01:38:21.960
furniture when I die I'm like no I'm not

01:38:21.960 --> 01:38:23.940
gonna bring your furniture into a house

01:38:23.940 --> 01:38:27.239
with five dogs this doesn't

01:38:27.239 --> 01:38:30.719
make any sense you know

01:38:30.719 --> 01:38:33.260
so

01:38:33.719 --> 01:38:35.580
but you don't feel uncomfortable when

01:38:35.580 --> 01:38:38.420
you're there because it's beautiful

01:38:38.420 --> 01:38:41.219
I I don't feel uncomfortable when I'm at

01:38:41.219 --> 01:38:43.440
your house it's beautiful no I know but

01:38:43.440 --> 01:38:45.480
I'm saying these different contracts

01:38:45.480 --> 01:38:47.699
there's all different living centers

01:38:47.699 --> 01:38:48.840
right

01:38:48.840 --> 01:38:51.320
foreign

01:38:56.960 --> 01:38:59.840
at my mom's house

01:38:59.840 --> 01:39:02.480
claustrophobic and

01:39:02.480 --> 01:39:04.920
you know what's interesting about her is

01:39:04.920 --> 01:39:08.060
she gets dementia

01:39:08.100 --> 01:39:10.260
more and more of what she can do Falls

01:39:10.260 --> 01:39:12.000
away

01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:14.280
but she becomes more of a character she

01:39:14.280 --> 01:39:17.460
can hardly walk but if there's a tiny

01:39:17.460 --> 01:39:21.540
little speck of lint she Stoops over

01:39:21.540 --> 01:39:25.080
like well I'm walking her from the car

01:39:25.080 --> 01:39:27.780
to her front door and she meet at the

01:39:27.780 --> 01:39:33.120
holder and then she sees like a leaf on

01:39:33.120 --> 01:39:36.600
the steps and she Stoops over

01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:40.260
he can't help herself she's so obsessed

01:39:40.260 --> 01:39:41.880
and I'm like that's the obsessive

01:39:41.880 --> 01:39:45.360
compulsive she says I know

01:39:45.360 --> 01:39:47.760
and that's the thing the very last

01:39:47.760 --> 01:39:49.980
minute before she dies

01:39:49.980 --> 01:39:53.340
she's going to see something like that

01:39:53.340 --> 01:39:55.500
curtain is out of place and she's gonna

01:39:55.500 --> 01:40:00.719
ask me in her last breath to fix it

01:40:00.719 --> 01:40:02.780
because this is

01:40:02.780 --> 01:40:07.219
ultimately who she is

01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:16.320
and there can be something beautiful

01:40:16.320 --> 01:40:18.300
about that I mean it's like creating

01:40:18.300 --> 01:40:21.060
order right someone who's like creating

01:40:21.060 --> 01:40:23.100
order and Harmony and trying to arrange

01:40:23.100 --> 01:40:25.620
the world so that it's a slightly nicer

01:40:25.620 --> 01:40:28.560
place she was an emergency room nurse

01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:30.300
she was really good at it because she

01:40:30.300 --> 01:40:32.460
someone would come in and she'd just get

01:40:32.460 --> 01:40:33.900
all focused

01:40:33.900 --> 01:40:36.000
on what

01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:37.440
you know

01:40:37.440 --> 01:40:41.480
just go go right at it

01:40:49.739 --> 01:40:52.080
I mean probably my last breath I'll

01:40:52.080 --> 01:40:55.320
probably be be ranting about internal

01:40:55.320 --> 01:40:58.639
family systems

01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:03.780
I feel like that is going to be very

01:41:03.780 --> 01:41:06.560
unexpected

01:41:13.440 --> 01:41:15.300
like I have this idea of death or like

01:41:15.300 --> 01:41:17.100
seeing someone die like I don't know

01:41:17.100 --> 01:41:19.080
like grandparents and like Bonnie it's

01:41:19.080 --> 01:41:21.120
like I have these ideas of what it'll be

01:41:21.120 --> 01:41:23.040
like but then it's like they'll say

01:41:23.040 --> 01:41:25.199
something like that like

01:41:25.199 --> 01:41:29.540
change the curtains or I don't know

01:41:36.060 --> 01:41:38.760
I met a guy in India who was uh he had

01:41:38.760 --> 01:41:40.619
been living there for about he was a

01:41:40.619 --> 01:41:42.179
Scottish guy

01:41:42.179 --> 01:41:44.460
and he had been doing lots of yoga this

01:41:44.460 --> 01:41:46.320
guy Ian but he would tell stories and

01:41:46.320 --> 01:41:48.600
invite people over to his house and

01:41:48.600 --> 01:41:50.639
um he told me about his father who died

01:41:50.639 --> 01:41:53.639
his father was a baker and Ian kind of

01:41:53.639 --> 01:41:55.139
broke the tradition he is from a

01:41:55.139 --> 01:41:57.060
generation of Bakers

01:41:57.060 --> 01:41:58.500
um in this little village in Scotland

01:41:58.500 --> 01:42:01.560
when his father died his last words were

01:42:01.560 --> 01:42:03.360
like hmm

01:42:03.360 --> 01:42:08.719
well I guess that's that he just died

01:42:19.739 --> 01:42:22.860
I think my grandpa's dad

01:42:22.860 --> 01:42:25.199
he said um

01:42:25.199 --> 01:42:28.260
don't bring in the the paddles because

01:42:28.260 --> 01:42:29.880
all that will be left will be dust

01:42:29.880 --> 01:42:32.520
because he was like super small and

01:42:32.520 --> 01:42:35.360
skinny and like

01:42:58.920 --> 01:43:03.920
yeah so to die is to be de-centered

01:43:05.040 --> 01:43:07.440
that's true for the ego too right when

01:43:07.440 --> 01:43:10.619
you they use that term about

01:43:10.619 --> 01:43:12.960
moving beyond the ego you you feel like

01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:15.420
you're decentered but you're also

01:43:15.420 --> 01:43:18.540
re-centered it much larger

01:43:18.540 --> 01:43:21.679
larger scale

01:43:21.960 --> 01:43:25.080
when you're dead and you're dissolve

01:43:25.080 --> 01:43:27.780
into molecules where is your new center

01:43:27.780 --> 01:43:31.020
it's the it's the universal centers now

01:43:31.020 --> 01:43:35.420
which is what it always was

01:43:36.239 --> 01:43:39.239
thanks

01:43:46.860 --> 01:43:49.860
foreign

01:44:03.179 --> 01:44:05.100
thing going on

01:44:05.100 --> 01:44:08.460
like it got more

01:44:08.460 --> 01:44:10.440
um obsessed with things and he was

01:44:10.440 --> 01:44:12.239
trying to

01:44:12.239 --> 01:44:15.179
convert something for the future and

01:44:15.179 --> 01:44:18.119
but leaving also like more like

01:44:18.119 --> 01:44:20.219
in his word even more than before

01:44:20.219 --> 01:44:22.560
something like this

01:44:22.560 --> 01:44:25.380
I don't know trying to explain like the

01:44:25.380 --> 01:44:26.840
less the the

01:44:26.840 --> 01:44:30.060
decentering or less aliveness

01:44:30.060 --> 01:44:32.820
as a kind of a way to explain why

01:44:32.820 --> 01:44:36.300
this wasn't possible because it was a

01:44:36.300 --> 01:44:39.199
very surprising thing

01:44:39.239 --> 01:44:42.440
yeah interesting

01:44:45.780 --> 01:44:47.880
yeah it's interesting because in a sense

01:44:47.880 --> 01:44:50.239
like

01:44:50.880 --> 01:44:53.340
when you die you're decentered it's just

01:44:53.340 --> 01:44:56.040
whatever but most people get there you

01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:59.699
know as you're getting closer the dying

01:44:59.699 --> 01:45:02.520
process over a long time like 10 years

01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:04.020
or four years

01:45:04.020 --> 01:45:07.020
is a contraction you know my mom can't

01:45:07.020 --> 01:45:08.400
do this anymore and then she can't do

01:45:08.400 --> 01:45:10.320
that anymore and she doesn't and she

01:45:10.320 --> 01:45:14.000
just like like

01:45:14.040 --> 01:45:17.159
you know she'll look at her iPhone she

01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:20.760
has a jitterbug a old person smartphone

01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:22.619
but she'll

01:45:22.619 --> 01:45:25.199
she'll look at it and try to clean up

01:45:25.199 --> 01:45:27.420
things

01:45:27.420 --> 01:45:29.219
and it'll take her like a half an hour

01:45:29.219 --> 01:45:32.400
you know like everything is contracted

01:45:32.400 --> 01:45:36.420
like there's less and less going on

01:45:36.420 --> 01:45:39.239
in smaller and smaller her cognitive

01:45:39.239 --> 01:45:42.840
light cone because Michael Levin gets

01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:43.980
smaller and so there's like a

01:45:43.980 --> 01:45:47.520
contraction until

01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:50.760
there's it then you know and on the

01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:52.980
other side is this complete that the

01:45:52.980 --> 01:45:55.760
opposite

01:45:58.739 --> 01:46:00.960
it gets Tighter and Tighter and Tighter

01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:02.699
and smaller and smaller and excludes

01:46:02.699 --> 01:46:05.159
more and more until it includes

01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:09.060
everything on the other end which means

01:46:09.060 --> 01:46:10.490
it's interesting

01:46:10.490 --> 01:46:12.900
[Music]

01:46:12.900 --> 01:46:14.639
I mean it doesn't happen for every

01:46:14.639 --> 01:46:16.860
people everyone like that but I think

01:46:16.860 --> 01:46:18.600
for most people and according to Stephen

01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:21.659
Jenkins that's people don't have

01:46:21.659 --> 01:46:24.060
epiphanies as they get closer to the

01:46:24.060 --> 01:46:26.520
duck they get I always say it's like the

01:46:26.520 --> 01:46:29.400
the golden retriever likes to play catch

01:46:29.400 --> 01:46:31.500
with the ball and as they get older

01:46:31.500 --> 01:46:33.600
their whole life they just become like a

01:46:33.600 --> 01:46:36.000
caricature all they all they can think

01:46:36.000 --> 01:46:38.820
about is the wall right they just most

01:46:38.820 --> 01:46:43.520
people become caricatures of themselves

01:46:43.800 --> 01:46:45.540
and that's kind of like an abstraction

01:46:45.540 --> 01:46:49.199
right they get abstracted down to the

01:46:49.199 --> 01:46:53.460
one or two or three protocols that

01:46:53.460 --> 01:46:57.380
have predominated in their life

01:46:59.699 --> 01:47:01.320
which is interesting too because I heard

01:47:01.320 --> 01:47:04.139
him say that um the number one by far

01:47:04.139 --> 01:47:06.480
regret people have on their deathbed is

01:47:06.480 --> 01:47:09.420
um working too much so

01:47:09.420 --> 01:47:11.219
I was so much of people's identities

01:47:11.219 --> 01:47:13.619
around the work that they do and then to

01:47:13.619 --> 01:47:15.360
distill that and then go oh

01:47:15.360 --> 01:47:17.659
actually

01:47:17.699 --> 01:47:20.520
so myopic and actually that's not who

01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:21.900
I know there's something there it sounds

01:47:21.900 --> 01:47:24.000
like they're really wrestling with yeah

01:47:24.000 --> 01:47:26.340
but it's a lie too

01:47:26.340 --> 01:47:30.080
because had they started to do it over

01:47:31.980 --> 01:47:34.320
over yeah I know what you're saying but

01:47:34.320 --> 01:47:38.159
also this is part of what's included

01:47:38.159 --> 01:47:40.139
if they could still have the Epiphany

01:47:40.139 --> 01:47:43.139
yeah

01:47:48.540 --> 01:47:50.219
yeah don't wait until you're on your

01:47:50.219 --> 01:47:52.619
deathbed exactly

01:47:52.619 --> 01:47:54.719
you have to stop

01:47:54.719 --> 01:47:57.179
you have to start working less

01:47:57.179 --> 01:47:59.760
in the middle of wanting to still work

01:47:59.760 --> 01:48:02.060
more

01:48:03.780 --> 01:48:05.760
or expanding your notion of work too

01:48:05.760 --> 01:48:08.100
yeah

01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:12.679
I think maybe they think it's more like

01:48:13.340 --> 01:48:16.320
recognizing that

01:48:16.320 --> 01:48:18.119
you know this a lot of people have

01:48:18.119 --> 01:48:21.020
 jobs

01:48:39.679 --> 01:48:42.360
that's what my grandma said once to me

01:48:42.360 --> 01:48:45.239
she's like yeah I wish I would have just

01:48:45.239 --> 01:48:48.260
peed more

01:48:48.659 --> 01:48:52.860
done less and just yeah

01:48:52.860 --> 01:48:54.659
yeah it doesn't work that way because

01:48:54.659 --> 01:48:57.600
when you have a lot of energy

01:48:57.600 --> 01:49:00.780
you know when you have a lot of energy

01:49:00.780 --> 01:49:04.699
the energy equation is different

01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:21.060
like sometimes I think

01:49:21.060 --> 01:49:25.880
if I if I knew what I knew today

01:49:26.460 --> 01:49:28.380
like I was really good in basketball and

01:49:28.380 --> 01:49:30.900
if I knew what I knew today and I wasn't

01:49:30.900 --> 01:49:35.520
so emotional in basketball and I I and I

01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:37.320
could understand the Flow State and

01:49:37.320 --> 01:49:38.699
stuff better I could have been really

01:49:38.699 --> 01:49:40.800
good in basketball

01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:44.040
but then if I was 20 if I was like 17 18

01:49:44.040 --> 01:49:47.699
years old again my energy was so crazy

01:49:47.699 --> 01:49:49.500
I would have been the person that I was

01:49:49.500 --> 01:49:51.500
anyways

01:49:51.500 --> 01:49:54.600
you know they they don't fit the two

01:49:54.600 --> 01:49:57.440
things don't match

01:50:00.179 --> 01:50:02.520
it's like Aaron when he said I'm not

01:50:02.520 --> 01:50:04.679
smart I just have lost testosterone so

01:50:04.679 --> 01:50:08.280
you might say oh now now that I feel

01:50:08.280 --> 01:50:10.260
this way and I have this wisdom

01:50:10.260 --> 01:50:12.780
I wish I had more testosterone but you

01:50:12.780 --> 01:50:14.480
hadn't worked it wouldn't work that way

01:50:14.480 --> 01:50:18.920
but the things come together

01:50:24.119 --> 01:50:27.239
it'd be like me saying you know I really

01:50:27.239 --> 01:50:30.000
enjoy men now because I have no hormones

01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:32.820
and I wish I could be young again and

01:50:32.820 --> 01:50:37.020
enjoy men like this it just

01:50:37.020 --> 01:50:40.699
it just wouldn't work that way

01:50:47.699 --> 01:50:51.920
I'm thinking about my dad who

01:50:51.920 --> 01:50:54.119
at 58

01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:58.440
got a golden parachute basically he was

01:50:58.440 --> 01:51:02.460
asked to retire and given a boatload of

01:51:02.460 --> 01:51:03.960
money

01:51:03.960 --> 01:51:06.600
and he never worked again I mean he sort

01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:10.080
of worked in a way for a few years and

01:51:10.080 --> 01:51:11.600
he just like

01:51:11.600 --> 01:51:15.840
relaxed played tennis played golf

01:51:15.840 --> 01:51:17.760
had a good time

01:51:17.760 --> 01:51:20.219
and as he started to move toward

01:51:20.219 --> 01:51:24.179
dementia and into that you know I mean

01:51:24.179 --> 01:51:27.719
you live to be 89. so he almost

01:51:27.719 --> 01:51:31.619
was retired as long as he worked

01:51:31.619 --> 01:51:35.639
and he just became so appreciative of

01:51:35.639 --> 01:51:37.380
everything

01:51:37.380 --> 01:51:38.639
like you couldn't really remember

01:51:38.639 --> 01:51:41.040
anything so every day was the best day

01:51:41.040 --> 01:51:42.600
he ever had

01:51:42.600 --> 01:51:45.000
every meal was like the best meal he

01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:46.500
ever had

01:51:46.500 --> 01:51:48.840
every time I brought him a chip witch he

01:51:48.840 --> 01:51:54.840
was like wow what is this the delicious

01:51:55.739 --> 01:51:58.199
I want to go like that I mean that was

01:51:58.199 --> 01:51:59.780
just

01:51:59.780 --> 01:52:06.139
everything was so deeply a delight

01:52:06.659 --> 01:52:10.280
okay I'm gonna end with this

01:52:14.219 --> 01:52:17.040
since let's see

01:52:17.040 --> 01:52:18.659
okay

01:52:18.659 --> 01:52:21.739
I hope you can

01:52:21.900 --> 01:52:25.460
hear this I might have had

01:52:25.460 --> 01:52:29.400
2017. anymore I want to live my life

01:52:29.400 --> 01:52:30.960
backwards

01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:33.560
oh

01:52:34.320 --> 01:52:37.219
foreign

01:52:38.300 --> 01:52:41.580
so this is not George Carlin saying but

01:52:41.580 --> 01:52:44.699
I think you can I think it's it's

01:52:44.699 --> 01:52:47.699
more understandable because he says it

01:52:47.699 --> 01:52:50.219
so fast so let's just play this as

01:52:50.219 --> 01:52:54.739
turned off oh hold on

01:52:57.780 --> 01:53:00.139
okay

01:53:00.540 --> 01:53:03.260
here we go

01:53:08.179 --> 01:53:11.400
yeah it's muted so you have to imagine

01:53:11.400 --> 01:53:13.800
what it's saying hold on I'll get it

01:53:13.800 --> 01:53:16.199
right don't worry all right so let me

01:53:16.199 --> 01:53:17.820
hide this

01:53:17.820 --> 01:53:20.300
okay

01:53:25.940 --> 01:53:29.639
2017. in my next life I want to live my

01:53:29.639 --> 01:53:32.699
life backwards you start out dead and

01:53:32.699 --> 01:53:34.679
get that out of the way then you wake up

01:53:34.679 --> 01:53:36.480
in an old people's home feeling better

01:53:36.480 --> 01:53:38.699
every day you get kicked out for being

01:53:38.699 --> 01:53:41.520
too healthy go collect your pension and

01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:43.440
then when you start work you get a gold

01:53:43.440 --> 01:53:45.780
watch and a party on your first day you

01:53:45.780 --> 01:53:48.420
work 40 years until you're young enough

01:53:48.420 --> 01:53:51.480
to enjoy your retirement you party drink

01:53:51.480 --> 01:53:53.639
alcohol and are generally promiscuous

01:53:53.639 --> 01:53:56.699
then you are ready for high school you

01:53:56.699 --> 01:53:58.679
then go to Primary School you become a

01:53:58.679 --> 01:54:00.800
kid you play you have no

01:54:00.800 --> 01:54:03.300
responsibilities you become a baby until

01:54:03.300 --> 01:54:05.760
you are born and then you spend your

01:54:05.760 --> 01:54:08.780
last nine months floating in luxurious

01:54:08.780 --> 01:54:11.639
spa-like conditions with Central Heating

01:54:11.639 --> 01:54:15.119
and room service on tap larger quarters

01:54:15.119 --> 01:54:17.639
every day and then voila

01:54:17.639 --> 01:54:22.320
you finish off as an orgasm I rest my

01:54:22.320 --> 01:54:24.560
case

01:54:28.800 --> 01:54:32.119
oh that's so good

01:54:33.300 --> 01:54:36.000
okay friends thanks for the good work

01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:40.219
think about it think about it