# Individuation & the New Human 2023 cohorts transcripts

## Cohort 1

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hello hello welcome

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everyone to the final

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module of this long long long journey

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we've been on this year about putting

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the Mind back into the body and the body

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back into

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nature and U we're coming off of talking

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about the moral animal

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um if people have some insights uh that

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they want to share that are relevant to

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that we can Bridge um but this module is

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called individuation in the new human so

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it's kind of a two-part thing because

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individuation is something we um can

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um encounter in ourselves or work on

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ourselves in the right right here and

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right now we can see individuation so we

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want to talk about the origins of the

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self and the ident how identity changes

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over time and we also want to talk about

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how the collective the the the notion of

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the self inside the collective has

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changed over time and um on our way to

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Imagining the new

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human uh wrong

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button let's see what was okay

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uh whatever okay um so so it's a kind of

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a

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two-part um module but we don't have to

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do that in in so much in two parts just

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kind of understand that we're looking at

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the trajectory of identity across time

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that we can actually experience in our

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own life and that we can um see

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changes on identity but then we're also

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trying to project into the future um

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what the what a new human might be like

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and of course this is very

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speculative and uh what's interesting is

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um

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um if you um well we'll we'll look at it

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but um right

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now why is why are these two things

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important together because right now

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um society's in a groove it it's kind of

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in this it's got a lot of momentum

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toward one single future and that's a

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future that is driven by technological

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systems and I both mean systems um in

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terms of uh Ivan saying the systems have

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swallowed us and uh technological so uh

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in that in that song in the year 2025

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2525 you hear already uh 50 years ago I

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believe that song was written maybe not

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that long ago but

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already the impression is that we're

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going to live in a much more

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technological future if you listened to

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Grim's little song there on the course

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content she obviously believes we're

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going to live and seems to Aspire to

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living in a technological

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future and uh a little later today just

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before the breakout group groups um we

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will look at a short video

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of

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this this design group called aadia

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which is very

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pro-life um they asked AI to predict

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what would happen over the next 400

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years and you will see that it has to um

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resolve like the next 300 years in in

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terms of the momentum of the these

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technological systems so um these are

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all questions spinning in my um sphere

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around this

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module and um um and so why is

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individuation important

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because for two reasons I'll give the

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simple example and then I'll give the

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deeper example and then we should talk I

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think about the individuation the

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identity across the lifespan first but

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because first of all because when you're

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born in a society where the all the

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momentum all the power all the

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opportunity all the confirmation

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bias um everything gets reflected back

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to you that this is a technological

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system

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Society then it is very difficult and

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your parents let's say are into into

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that and good things come to you through

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the fact that they work for the

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technological system because you don't

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know what it looks like outside the

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technological system then without

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individuating you will just become a

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replicator of that

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system right so when we see that cute

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little it's not cute it's that little uh

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Sydney potier uh uh clip um somehow

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something has changed where his father

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sees himself as a black man in Sydney

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part sees himself as a man um that's a

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profound individuation nobody knows how

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it happens um um it happens naturally

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which is why Society culture just

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doesn't replicate itself it changes okay

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so there's a positive and a negative the

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positive is that it does reproduce

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itself in a metast stable sort of way

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but there are these uh

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innate uh abilities of EV of people to

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individuate from their

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culture and um and then uh we have

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questions like if you individuate from

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your

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culture um where are the culture we

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talked about um fulfills two very big

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needs uh one is your belonging needs and

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the other is your sense of

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belonging uh um given an a a an a

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landscape of some kind of higher higher

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belonging okay so to individuate you

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need to no man is an island and you need

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to satisfy your belonging needs and the

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sense

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of a deep something deeper than culture

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or higher than culture these words are

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very similar um you need to tap into

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that you can't just exit culture you

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have to find with within yourself these

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two uh fulcra fulcra these two fulcra

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fulum points um and so that's a big part

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of individuation where do you find these

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ful points uh some of us find it in

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nature I happen to find it in the deeper

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universals I'll never not belong to the

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Animal Kingdom and to Nature and

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you culture you know you people you

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can't kick me out because I'm not in

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right it's this kind feeling you can't

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 kick me out because I'm not in

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your game I'm in a deeper game and

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you're in that game too it's just you

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don't know it something like that right

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so this sense of confidence in something

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um is very important now then you have

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what we would call the

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higher which is a little more tricky

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well the deeper can be tricky too if

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there are a lot of cultural movements

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around but the higher can be tricky

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because some people are religious or

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have higher higher goals um but they

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have had no independent mystical

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experience so it's really a in many

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cases like if you're inculturated into

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certain religion or Mormonism or

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whatever um it's it's not an

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individuated um um expression of

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obtaining or attending to or um or yeah

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obtaining or attending to something

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higher um so that's a little trickier um

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although you know you could be in a cult

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that says nature is the deeper thing and

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you haven't actually you've just kind of

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inculturated yourself to it so and not

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individuated from it

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so so these this is why these things go

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hand in hand it's the ability to step

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out of nature out of

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culture and find somewhere in you in

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your experience

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a way to satisfy your belonging needs

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not your trivial ones like your deep

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belonging needs you can't live as an

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island and um and something some you

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know higher or larger entity in which um

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you can

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navigate your world um because you don't

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want to be perspectively limited that

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that's not possible either so these are

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two important um

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yeah there are two important parts of

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individuation now uh in general

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ordinarily uh Generations navigate their

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belonging needs by belonging to their

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generation right that's part of their

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individuation I don't want to belong to

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them they're they're Square I'm going to

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belong to these hip hippies or whatever

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or the

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Millennials um um but we're talking

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about a bigger exit than that because it

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seems to me that the global cultural

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momentum keeps co-opting all the

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generations okay in in general now

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having said that if we're looking at the

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new

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individual the new human um it has to be

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latent in the system somehow there has

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to be some

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people um that

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[Music]

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are expressing in some way or sensing or

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intuiting in some way um something of

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the new new human and of course they're

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still in the culture it's not going to

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be fully formed so there's this process

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of um looking for that looking for that

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countercurrent um and many in many cases

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it may seem

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deviant um and um so we have to be

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careful not to discount or discard

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what looks

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deviant um

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and and just be kind of um witnesses to

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what might be on the horizon these are

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long longterm events they're not going

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to happen for a long time so be wary of

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the Messiah who proclaims themselves the

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new individual um it's probably not

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going to happen in our lifetime it's um

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something that's going to happen in over

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over course of many years um and is

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contingent upon um you know external

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reality

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so uh if just about everything in the

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technological system in the

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biosphere um is destroyed but some

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humans remain uh we're likely to get a

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novel human uh because so much in the

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external environment has changed um but

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as long as there's some there's there's

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more continuity than not

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um then um these processes a much slower

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um slower and perhaps that's a that's a

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good thing um okay so that's my

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beginning Spiel uh let's open it up to

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uh questions uh hopes

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fears AA I'm just GNA use your screen

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name I like it AA

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yeah I think it's it's simpler um I have

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a question which was already there in

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moral animal and I'm not sure if it's my

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question or if it's just question that

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was wants to be asked because already in

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moral animal I was thinking what about

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if there is something worth saying about

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this so-called neurod divergent or neur

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diverse people and what about people on

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spectrum is high functioning because

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I I don't know the last studies and

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details but it seems to be more of them

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and they seems to be fitting the system

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we are talking about and all this

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Technical and and and automated things

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and I would be thankful to understand

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more how

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to is it is it is it some um how serious

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is it and and and and where something

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more differenti it about it and and

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already in this moral animal I was I was

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asking myself does it matter if you're

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on Spectrum for for this kind of antenna

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for

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Morality is there something that is

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decoupling or

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not and I think talking about

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generations and this what's becoming

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more or seems to be future I think

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that's aspect that is worth kind of

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having in our mind or it would be

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interesting for

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me yeah I almost I almost said neurod

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diverge I almost said like for example

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neurodivergence you know it's a it's a

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it's a fascinating question and we

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always have to be careful because at at

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certain parts of the spectrum it's very

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sad right it's very painful for both

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individuals and the

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family but we can tell many different

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we can use the same facts and tell many

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different stories um I suspect there is

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something that we will look back on in

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history and say there was something in

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the system there that was complex uh

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neurod divergency is driven both by

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environmental factors and other factors

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you know it's one of these complex

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things

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and um I think it's part of the story of

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the new human um it could be one thing

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the human system is trying out and we

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haven't seen other other aspects of it

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but this is a fascinating story because

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what it's saying is if you

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know if there are conditions for radical

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change then the most plastic part

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biologically of the human is well I

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would say the immune system in the brain

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right they're very plastic they're very

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uh sensitive to mutations and they can

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experiment with a lot a lot of mutations

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so

00:15:41.800 --> 00:15:44.240
um I'm not sure what the neurod

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:48.560
Divergent brain is anatomically or

00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:53.120
metabolically I'm not sure what

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.720
that

00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.240
is um it's probably different for

00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.079
different parts of the Spectra but if

00:16:00.079 --> 00:16:02.160
you're thinking of you know nature

00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:05.000
stepping in and being an active

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.399
participant in creating the new human in

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.639
in a somewhat radical fashion so we can

00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.120
kind of see it we can track that there's

00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.399
much more neurodivergence in the recent

00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.720
history than

00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.079
before then that's where you would see

00:16:21.079 --> 00:16:22.360
it you would see it in something like

00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.199
the immune system

00:16:25.199 --> 00:16:30.680
um and the Brain the brain is the the

00:16:30.680 --> 00:16:33.360
brain and the way it operates uh has a

00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.639
lot to do with these gleo cells which

00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.800
are not the neurons with the environment

00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:40.920
in which the and they are very connected

00:16:40.920 --> 00:16:43.839
to the immune system so that might be

00:16:43.839 --> 00:16:48.240
the pathway that is happening uh for

00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.839
Rapid biological change in in the human

00:16:52.839 --> 00:16:55.079
um cognition or personality or whatever

00:16:55.079 --> 00:16:57.480
you want to call it so

00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.480
um

00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.439
um what I like about the neurod

00:17:04.439 --> 00:17:07.959
Divergent um phenomenon is the not

00:17:07.959 --> 00:17:12.760
neurode Divergent people are seeing um

00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:16.720
seeing possibility in it you know like

00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.280
like it's really hard for other humans

00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:23.240
to think out of the box and even when we

00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:25.679
think way out of the box we do it

00:17:25.679 --> 00:17:27.199
imaginatively whereas when you're

00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:29.400
neurode Divergent you just see something

00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.240
differently you know it goes back to

00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.600
this kind of moral animal it's it's just

00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:37.440
in your animal nature it arises as given

00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.480
whereas the rest of us we have to use

00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.440
some cognitive

00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.960
imagination and then we don't ever

00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:47.559
really just reside in that new world um

00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.559
so there's a lot of fascinating um

00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:57.559
approaches to uh to to that um and I'm

00:17:57.559 --> 00:17:59.880
not

00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:01.600
you know I'm not an expert on what's

00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:02.919
Happening I don't think anybody's an

00:18:02.919 --> 00:18:05.240
expert on what's happening it's way too

00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.080
weird for

00:18:07.080 --> 00:18:09.480
people but I another thing that's

00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:14.400
happening though is also um

00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.159
um there's a lot of psychological early

00:18:18.159 --> 00:18:20.039
psychological conditions that are

00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.760
different than ever that make a huge

00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:27.880
difference um so um you know we talk

00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.760
about just the sort sort of thing like

00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:33.320
uh the digital environment co-varies

00:18:33.320 --> 00:18:36.240
with you so you start

00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.000
to project your body and stuff into the

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.480
digital environment um gender roles and

00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.679
has have changed in ways that I think um

00:18:48.679 --> 00:18:53.640
have uh uh significant uh consequences

00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.840
on um male and female um aspirational

00:18:57.840 --> 00:18:59.480
identity so for

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.280
example when I grew up uh my mother took

00:19:03.280 --> 00:19:04.919
care of everything except whenever the

00:19:04.919 --> 00:19:06.760
 hit the fan my father had the last

00:19:06.760 --> 00:19:08.280
word right and he all he had to say is

00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:13.000
yes or no and that was the word so um um

00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.240
so you grow up as a female identifying

00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.280
with your mother as a female and

00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:19.799
understanding that the opposite sex has

00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.559
more power and you grow up as a male

00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.000
understanding that the same sex has more

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.880
power and as this changes more more men

00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.000
today grow up in me many of the young

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.600
men that I attract when it comes down to

00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:36.799
it their mothers have had more power so

00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:38.720
now for the first time in Western

00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.280
history for sure this is a short history

00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:44.600
of patriarchal you know Western history

00:19:44.600 --> 00:19:48.280
the male sex sees the Power in the

00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:50.559
opposite sex and the first time the

00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.080
female sex sees the Power in the

00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:55.000
household in the same sex and yet the

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.520
culture is slow to change so the the

00:19:57.520 --> 00:20:01.200
workplac is is so slow to change I I

00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.120
I've seen this as a dramatic uh shift in

00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:09.760
in uh what What's now quite common um

00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:12.760
common tensions in new generations and I

00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:14.720
think the whole transgender thing as

00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.200
part of this I think that will settle

00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:17.919
down I think that's an over corruption

00:20:17.919 --> 00:20:21.799
in many cases but there it's things like

00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.640
that that have that can create rapid

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.120
change um in in society um and will

00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:33.320
change create rapid change in society in

00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:36.159
ways that we don't we can't we can't

00:20:36.159 --> 00:20:38.320
predict what they are

00:20:38.320 --> 00:20:42.640
so um um and so that I wouldn't say

00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.919
creates neurod Divergence I don't think

00:20:44.919 --> 00:20:46.600
people's brains are really that

00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:49.320
different but psychological fundamental

00:20:49.320 --> 00:20:51.960
psychological structures are are have

00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.200
change and impact people in ways so we

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.919
could be looking at at things like that

00:20:57.919 --> 00:20:59.760
um there's probably once you start

00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:01.120
thinking like that if you're a

00:21:01.120 --> 00:21:02.760
researcher you can you can try to

00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:05.559
imagine what else is in the system

00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.799
that's that that's

00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:13.000
um you know I just had this funny if you

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.039
if you allow me this funny image do you

00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:18.880
ever see those uh those W those wine

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.760
bottles with the pear is inside of

00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:24.760
it like it's Paar wine and the whole

00:21:24.760 --> 00:21:28.120
pair a fully full-sized pair is in

00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:29.679
inside of it and you wonder how do they

00:21:29.679 --> 00:21:32.520
get the pear inside the wine bottle well

00:21:32.520 --> 00:21:34.640
they actually put when the when the

00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.799
flower gets fertilized correct me David

00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:39.480
if if you know more about this they put

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.520
the wine bottle over the the branch and

00:21:43.520 --> 00:21:45.760
the pear grows inside the wine bottle

00:21:45.760 --> 00:21:49.120
right so something like that is when a

00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:52.159
child grows up in a structure it's still

00:21:52.159 --> 00:21:54.360
going to grow up and then when you see

00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:56.320
it as more of a young adult you wonder

00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:58.520
how did that get inside of that child

00:21:58.520 --> 00:22:00.840
but it has to do with something that

00:22:00.840 --> 00:22:02.840
happens very early on in these

00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:06.640
fundamental complex relations of

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:10.200
development that then change you know

00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.640
the outcome quite dramatically so we

00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.880
don't know what those things are um and

00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:20.159
I'll just say lastly um a lot of these

00:22:20.159 --> 00:22:22.360
biological changes happen because

00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:25.240
there's so there's so many not only

00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:28.159
toxins in the environment but drugs in

00:22:28.159 --> 00:22:30.960
the in the water and this is an unknown

00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.799
nobody can trace um what the ultimate

00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.559
consequences of that are because the

00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.880
drug changes the biology biology changes

00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.840
the psychology psychology and so a lot

00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:44.880
of things are happening at the same time

00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.000
even before we get into technology and

00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.480
and the internet and stuff like that

00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:52.320
so

00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:54.880
um yeah did I kind of answer your

00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:56.480
question I just said a lot of blah blah

00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.640
blah but I think there's so many

00:22:58.640 --> 00:22:59.919
this is very

00:22:59.919 --> 00:23:05.080
interesting uh question on on

00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:08.080
um so what do you do about that you just

00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:11.880
let like you said like you just look and

00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.200
be careful not to say it's deviant you H

00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.960
you you you have to be open and curious

00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.960
and not closed and

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.880
fearful

00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:23.760
um

00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:26.720
yeah do you have a followup to that or

00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.400
there's so much in there

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.679
maybe a small thing to this moral animal

00:23:31.679 --> 00:23:34.520
because I understand the difference that

00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:37.880
they that it's possible to see things

00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:40.240
different in a natural way but there is

00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.279
something that bothers me with this

00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:46.679
moral things and also how much um

00:23:46.679 --> 00:23:50.520
self-referential the things are you once

00:23:50.520 --> 00:23:54.400
mentioned that ADHD CH children are kind

00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.000
of more referencing through themselves

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.159
or they have difficulties in uh

00:24:01.159 --> 00:24:03.799
resonating with the world as it

00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.120
is and maybe in this context what does

00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:10.080
it mean if it gets more and more of

00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:11.720
people

00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.840
who are getting with this diagnosis or

00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:18.360
with this treatment exactly in this kind

00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:24.200
of um behaviors or or

00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:28.120
identities yeah so these These are

00:24:28.120 --> 00:24:31.120
unknowns to me these are things that

00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:34.840
make me nervous and then I try to open

00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:38.640
my awareness to them um but it does seem

00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:43.640
that the trajectory is toward um um the

00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.200
virtualization of reality so whether or

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.520
not there's two postures in ADHD a lot

00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:52.720
of them go away so you feel they're

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.120
dissociated and a lot of them go in but

00:24:55.120 --> 00:24:57.799
they won't sit and talk to a person by

00:24:57.799 --> 00:24:59.960
looking at them because they don't feel

00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:02.080
that the conversations between them and

00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:05.279
the world or they or they feel so much

00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:09.760
they can't we I don't know um and then

00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:14.200
um there are people who don't have ADHD

00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:16.159
they are

00:25:16.159 --> 00:25:18.960
externally oriented but they're in on

00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.799
videos all the time which is another

00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:25.240
virtual reality um and it seems to me

00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.960
that that is one of these technological

00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.200
systemic things that's going to take a

00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.039
long time I think it's I think it's

00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.200
still immature stage and I think it's

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.880
going to get more like that maybe in

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.399
both both

00:25:40.399 --> 00:25:42.039
kinds

00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:46.159
um so and then there are people there's

00:25:46.159 --> 00:25:50.039
a conflict or a battle over the virtual

00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:52.399
world the technological virtual world

00:25:52.399 --> 00:25:55.200
and that is there are some good willing

00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.679
people that say given that people are

00:25:57.679 --> 00:26:00.480
are living in a oriented toward the

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.200
virtual can we make a virtuous virtual

00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.159
world so they'll still be zombies but

00:26:07.159 --> 00:26:10.640
they'll be virtuous so there's some you

00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.279
know

00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:15.240
uh otherwise well intent very

00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.679
well-intentioned people doing that um

00:26:18.679 --> 00:26:20.279
and then of course there's many people

00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.720
who want to do that just to control the

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.279
status quo so that the civilian

00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.039
population uh will be happy even though

00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.279
wealth distribution for example is gone

00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.840
through the W roof and will continue to

00:26:32.840 --> 00:26:37.720
do so because uh digital uh neoliberal

00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.399
capitalism is a mechanism to

00:26:40.399 --> 00:26:45.440
redistribute wealth a huge scale so

00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:46.960
um

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.960
so

00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:53.840
um yeah have a lot to say about that and

00:26:53.840 --> 00:26:55.600
I'll give you it's an interesting

00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:57.679
question and I wanted to avoid saying

00:26:57.679 --> 00:27:00.760
what I'm going to say so I will say it

00:27:00.760 --> 00:27:02.640
so we had this you know we had people

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.559
over one o over all month and in the

00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:07.880
last 10 days we had a group over and

00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.799
they were doing a lot of wi space

00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.880
practice and in the meantime my horse

00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.799
died uh we tried to save her it was very

00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.320
very fast she had a ruptured or uh

00:27:21.320 --> 00:27:23.880
aneurism in her in her intestines or

00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.960
something like that and then we were

00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:28.039
built you know we had to dig the whole

00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:30.720
and this and that and there was this

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.919
contrast between

00:27:33.919 --> 00:27:37.880
like having to take care of things that

00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.480
was like my favorite horse and having to

00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.200
take care of things and I was cooking

00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.159
for them and then this little group that

00:27:44.159 --> 00:27:46.679
were just in their Lial imaginal thing

00:27:46.679 --> 00:27:50.120
day after day after day after day I

00:27:50.120 --> 00:27:52.519
found this very interesting like what

00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:54.840
does the world need more of like they

00:27:54.840 --> 00:27:57.200
were doing imaginal stuff and they were

00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:58.840
not really getting along and then they

00:27:58.840 --> 00:28:01.600
would process and this and that and by

00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:03.880
contrast you know I was getting up in

00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:05.320
the morning and cleaning the dishes and

00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:08.080
cooking for them and going down and my

00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:10.039
horse died and we had to call the vet

00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:11.559
and we had to do this and my neighbor

00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.720
came and I I I started to think like

00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.240
like people need to be more prepared to

00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.440
like cook clean and put dead things in

00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.919
the ground this is really the truth of

00:28:25.919 --> 00:28:29.120
it and and just made the it just it

00:28:29.120 --> 00:28:31.799
happened to impact me that way it just

00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.519
happened to impact me that way and um

00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.559
the people are lovely they said I got in

00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:39.360
the circle the last day they said lovely

00:28:39.360 --> 00:28:40.919
things about me they couldn't have been

00:28:40.919 --> 00:28:44.480
happier I'm not saying that it was all

00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:49.320
black and white but it just felt like

00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:51.600
what is what am I learning here you know

00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:55.000
what is actually like I was just trying

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.919
to ask like what is

00:28:57.919 --> 00:29:00.120
what is the lesson here like what is

00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:01.919
actually happening and I just got this

00:29:01.919 --> 00:29:05.480
hit of

00:29:06.679 --> 00:29:09.799
like what's coming down the pike is

00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:12.679
going to require us to pay attention to

00:29:12.679 --> 00:29:13.679
real

00:29:13.679 --> 00:29:16.799
things um there's got to be a lot of

00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.559
people who will work on real things now

00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.200
that did not make me nervous because

00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.200
most people are not like us most people

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.240
like my neighbor he had loader he came

00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:32.120
down my husband he could dig a 16 foot

00:29:32.120 --> 00:29:34.760
deep by eight by eight foot hole you

00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:37.679
know and so it actually started to make

00:29:37.679 --> 00:29:40.440
me very happy that there were a lot of

00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:44.000
people who know how to work with real

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:50.360
things um and that uh um yeah I don't

00:29:50.360 --> 00:29:51.960
know did that that does I don't even

00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.279
know if that makes sense but I think

00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:56.120
we're going to have to learn to probably

00:29:56.120 --> 00:29:59.880
do both imagine new Futures uh look at

00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:04.039
the things but we need many people or at

00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:06.960
least to be in community with people who

00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.320
can take care of the real things that

00:30:09.320 --> 00:30:11.519
are coming down the pike because at the

00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:13.679
end of the day those those are going to

00:30:13.679 --> 00:30:17.320
be extremely meaningful and if right now

00:30:17.320 --> 00:30:19.240
there's a lot of us but if more and more

00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.960
people are just living some virtual

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.360
reality then uh yeah who's gon to who's

00:30:26.360 --> 00:30:28.679
who's going to do that work who's who's

00:30:28.679 --> 00:30:30.600
going to take care

00:30:30.600 --> 00:30:32.519
of that

00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.799
work because pretty soon you know the

00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:36.720
Medical Institution is going to be all

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.120
automated because it's so standardized

00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:42.120
now and funerals will be automated and

00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:45.600
some robot will come and you know like

00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:47.679
so I think in a

00:30:47.679 --> 00:30:51.120
way that was just what I kind of picked

00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:54.440
up from the strange experience I had

00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:58.000
strange coincidence of events um um but

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.240
there's something like that in it in it

00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.320
in it too I think for

00:31:03.399 --> 00:31:08.440
me thank you so much for asking

00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:16.960
Matt you muted I

00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.519
think yeah that was a really great

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.320
question a lot of threads I don't even

00:31:21.320 --> 00:31:23.679
know if I can

00:31:23.679 --> 00:31:29.000
um remember but um

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:34.159
so yeah that feels that feels right um I

00:31:34.159 --> 00:31:36.919
think I wanted to jump on

00:31:36.919 --> 00:31:40.279
because like this is this topic the one

00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.559
that AGA brought up is exactly what I'm

00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:43.760
kind of going through right now I'm

00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.840
looking to get assessed for like ADHD

00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:47.519
and stuff like

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:53.519
that um so and yeah that feeling

00:31:53.840 --> 00:31:56.399
of and I don't know if this is even

00:31:56.399 --> 00:31:59.559
connected with 8hd or not but yeah

00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.360
feeling of um finding it hard to connect

00:32:02.360 --> 00:32:04.399
with people or the world that's always

00:32:04.399 --> 00:32:08.120
been kind of there

00:32:08.120 --> 00:32:09.799
um

00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.639
um but also there's this and and talking

00:32:12.639 --> 00:32:15.760
about like you know this you know

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:17.880
calling it deviant or like

00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.559
what uh something like ahd or Autism or

00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.519
something else could be in terms of like

00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:28.600
a new experiment that evolution is

00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:30.960
running I would

00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.720
say just for me anyway and obviously

00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:37.519
everyone's different um but I've always

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:40.720
kind of felt like if I had the right

00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.480
environment I would like it would be I

00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.120
would be great and to

00:32:47.120 --> 00:32:51.120
me what I feel like in this current

00:32:51.120 --> 00:32:53.399
environment you know I find it's hard to

00:32:53.399 --> 00:32:55.720
do things like you know technology it

00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:58.960
gets in the way it's very distracting

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.519
whatever but where I feel the move is

00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:08.200
toward is toward nature and calm um like

00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:11.399
more rural I guess but and more

00:33:11.399 --> 00:33:14.440
connected to community in a in a real

00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.240
sense like in a real like physical like

00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.760
oh I feel good with these you know maybe

00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:22.000
a smaller group of people

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.519
and and that's just where I feel the

00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.080
direction is um

00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:30.480
um at least for

00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:34.080
me um but yeah I don't know I just felt

00:33:34.080 --> 00:33:37.000
like that was a really kind of a insync

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.399
moment

00:33:39.399 --> 00:33:42.360
um yeah I mean there's a lot but yeah

00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:46.279
maybe I'll just leave it there yeah yeah

00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:48.159
there was a lot that we already touched

00:33:48.159 --> 00:33:50.519
on it's another huge module you know I

00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:55.120
mean um but I think just to Ping back on

00:33:55.120 --> 00:33:57.120
something what we said a lot of times we

00:33:57.120 --> 00:33:59.320
can't you know we we talked about this I

00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:02.320
think last year in terms of the the

00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:04.600
middle layer of community has been

00:34:04.600 --> 00:34:08.520
gutted and we do have belonging needs

00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:10.040
and so like we belong on the internet

00:34:10.040 --> 00:34:12.639
the pop-up school I mean it's like you

00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.800
can't not have you cannot you can't

00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.720
live you'd go insane and many people go

00:34:19.720 --> 00:34:21.040
insane because they have they don't

00:34:21.040 --> 00:34:23.280
belong anywhere you know they don't they

00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.119
don't get their belonging needs so so we

00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:27.560
have to know

00:34:27.560 --> 00:34:31.800
that that is a necessity and then try to

00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.320
um work within that constraint of of

00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.520
that um it's why for example a lot of

00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:39.919
kids are going to

00:34:39.919 --> 00:34:41.960
monasteries I mean they have it's huge

00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:43.399
BL and then they complain because the

00:34:43.399 --> 00:34:45.159
monaster is up and everything but

00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:46.839
they create

00:34:46.839 --> 00:34:48.440
like

00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:51.800
um lasting connections with each other

00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:57.200
and stuff and um um the colleges are not

00:34:57.200 --> 00:34:59.359
they're too much of a joke right now

00:34:59.359 --> 00:35:01.280
back in the day they were think I think

00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.640
there was a lot more uh sobriety let's

00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:07.800
use that term in multiple ways and

00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.440
seriousness um and people made lasting

00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.320
connections but it's kind of just an

00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.040
entertainment you know not for everybody

00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:17.480
but for many people it's kind of a

00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:19.599
joke um

00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:24.960
so this is what we are

00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:28.960
um so that's why that that that piece is

00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.920
important like um it's part

00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.680
of the hook that

00:35:36.680 --> 00:35:40.720
um makes us have to

00:35:40.839 --> 00:35:44.280
really um not be careful but to

00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.480
understand what moves we make

00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:50.760
um what moves we are I was actually just

00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:52.119
I'm actually just going through that

00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.440
communal self thing right now

00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.160
and it I can

00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:01.319
actually like it just made like so much

00:36:01.319 --> 00:36:03.280
sense not even conceptually but even a

00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.200
felt sense of my experience like oh

00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:10.240
that's why I'm not doing so it doesn't

00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:12.400
feel so great maybe to do this oh I'm

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.000
going out into the world I'm gonna you

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.920
know do it's like I've always felt oh no

00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:19.960
I have to

00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:23.599
go back to the communal which feels so

00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:26.000
much better like it's just like night

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:27.599
and day

00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.359
um also you know in that communal self

00:36:31.359 --> 00:36:32.960
and the networks of

00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.599
trust um this is very important

00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.359
because

00:36:40.359 --> 00:36:43.280
like our neighbors are really friendly

00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.880
to me and when my horse died Sandy could

00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.160
go up the road and get the loader from

00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:52.200
his from our friends and they wave at me

00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:54.240
and they know me but I've never he has

00:36:54.240 --> 00:36:56.240
he's the one that you know he has these

00:36:56.240 --> 00:36:57.760
conversations because he used to drive

00:36:57.760 --> 00:36:59.839
the truck for the guy who owns the

00:36:59.839 --> 00:37:02.800
company who you know he's all embedded

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.960
in the like local economy and so just to

00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.880
to I think that one of the trends that's

00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.400
sad is that people only make friends or

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.720
only have life partners with people who

00:37:16.720 --> 00:37:18.160
are like

00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:21.319
them and so you get trapped again in

00:37:21.319 --> 00:37:23.280
your own yes so you have more of what

00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.359
you like around you but you have less of

00:37:25.359 --> 00:37:27.119
what you need in terms of

00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:31.880
diversity and um and conversely you know

00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:35.880
Sandy uh meet some of my friends and um

00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.160
some you know sometimes there's too many

00:37:37.160 --> 00:37:39.040
people coming through and he's deaf so

00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.119
he can't talk to them but he has made

00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.359
lifelong friends with some people that

00:37:44.359 --> 00:37:46.079
I've met online and through these kind

00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.280
of avenues and um now having said that

00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.359
you like with in this house here there

00:37:53.359 --> 00:37:55.720
you have to live with tremendous amount

00:37:55.720 --> 00:37:57.680
of

00:37:57.680 --> 00:38:00.760
um difference in difference in the way

00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.079
we want to be and take care of things

00:38:03.079 --> 00:38:08.599
and decisions we make um so so yeah so

00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:10.040
if you could make my point is if you

00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:13.280
could make one friend who's like father

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.760
and parents are farmers and then you go

00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:18.599
there you just need to make a connection

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:21.160
you don't have to be the node you know

00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:23.599
and this is how these these distributed

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.720
trust networks can can help you very

00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:30.880
much so

00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.920
um

00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.280
yeah this and then uh to say a positive

00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:41.040
thing this month experiment ended with a

00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:44.119
big bonfire and and it was really fun to

00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:46.119
see different people from different

00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.640
walks of life um hanging out together

00:38:50.640 --> 00:38:53.319
and

00:38:53.319 --> 00:38:55.960
um in a way that there was there would

00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:58.119
be from for me there's no other single

00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.800
event that I could imagine everybody

00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.960
independently signing up for you know

00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:05.280
because so many different

00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:10.119
interests um and uh yeah and watching

00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:13.680
how um how the

00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:17.920
fire yeah the fire no one could disagree

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.599
with the fire everyone liked the fire

00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:24.240
even my mom and sister came was really

00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.800
weird that was really

00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.920
wild Charlie

00:39:34.319 --> 00:39:39.560
dear I was profoundly impacted by that

00:39:39.560 --> 00:39:42.440
story I really there's a lot of Rich

00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.240
stuff here but with regard to the sort

00:39:47.240 --> 00:39:50.560
of split between what was going on with

00:39:50.560 --> 00:39:53.280
these people in the Lial place and you

00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:56.000
dealing with real life right and the the

00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.800
conclusion iion that you know it's hard

00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.119
to argue with but I think that so many

00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:03.920
people don't even understand right that

00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:05.800
we need more people who can do real

00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:10.040
things like dishes laundry put things in

00:40:10.040 --> 00:40:12.680
the ground put dead things in the ground

00:40:12.680 --> 00:40:16.800
and to some extent I feel like maybe it

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:18.359
hit me so

00:40:18.359 --> 00:40:20.160
hard

00:40:20.160 --> 00:40:23.960
because I have a foot in each of

00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.400
those places right I mean I grew up on a

00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:29.160
farm I'm

00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:33.319
now what you know being an IT person as

00:40:33.319 --> 00:40:35.520
my day job would be called right a

00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:39.680
knowledge worker or some um and

00:40:39.680 --> 00:40:42.280
you know to to some

00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:44.520
extent you know

00:40:44.520 --> 00:40:47.240
I've you know some of that stuff is

00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:50.440
atrophying but I also did spend a fair

00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.560
amount of my adult life working outside

00:40:53.560 --> 00:40:56.760
on a you know organic farm that raised

00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:01.640
pork lamb uh wool uh beef and again the

00:41:01.640 --> 00:41:03.720
farmer the farmer that I worked for was

00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:06.920
a was a um former high school biology

00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:11.079
teacher in a Korean warvet and uh his

00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:12.920
answer was actually he had a a brush

00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.160
pile behind his barn and he wouldn't

00:41:15.160 --> 00:41:16.800
bury the animals he just put them out

00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.720
for the vultures and um you know it

00:41:19.720 --> 00:41:22.720
would stink for a while you know right

00:41:22.720 --> 00:41:26.760
after a cow had had um

00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.240
died but you know I've been there and

00:41:29.240 --> 00:41:31.359
done that and you know I'm not a person

00:41:31.359 --> 00:41:33.640
that ever liked to wear shoes and I

00:41:33.640 --> 00:41:36.720
would be mucking out the pig stalls with

00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:39.839
pig manure up halfway up my calves and

00:41:39.839 --> 00:41:41.359
you know a lot of people are like what

00:41:41.359 --> 00:41:44.960
the right but I never got sick from

00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:47.760
it you know it's just manure it stinks

00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:51.680
you got to wash it off and and so I do

00:41:51.680 --> 00:41:53.960
have that relevance but I don't get to

00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:56.400
do that anymore right that it's not

00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.599
lucrative right that's the reason why I

00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.839
gave it up is because I could see that

00:42:00.839 --> 00:42:04.839
our oldest daughter was coming somewhere

00:42:04.839 --> 00:42:07.400
close enough to college age that the

00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.400
minimum wage I was working on the farm

00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:12.520
for wasn't going to cut it and I had to

00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:14.640
say Oh I thought it was going to kill me

00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:17.240
to work in an office maybe it's not

00:42:17.240 --> 00:42:20.319
maybe I can you know now that I'm 30

00:42:20.319 --> 00:42:24.599
instead of 20 do this and you know I've

00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.359
managed to get pretty good at what do

00:42:27.359 --> 00:42:31.079
but this like there's so many divides

00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:34.040
right now in our culture the red blue

00:42:34.040 --> 00:42:36.240
conservative

00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:39.160
liberal gun control Gun N you can take

00:42:39.160 --> 00:42:41.359
any issue right those who are for a

00:42:41.359 --> 00:42:42.800
women's right to choose those who are

00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.599
against it you know right but this this

00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:48.839
one that you just highlighted is like

00:42:48.839 --> 00:42:50.839
really Central and it sort of breaks

00:42:50.839 --> 00:42:53.559
down in a similar way to the rest of

00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:55.440
this in terms of the the people are

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.240
capable of doing and those of you

00:42:59.240 --> 00:43:02.040
know those who aren't right who who can

00:43:02.040 --> 00:43:05.200
figure out how to get online and make a

00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:07.440
living somehow

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.480
with you know you put it well right a

00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:14.800
virtual world it's not in touch

00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:19.680
with the ground right the the Earth and

00:43:19.680 --> 00:43:22.400
and reality so I don't even have a

00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.880
question but thank you no this is all

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:26.640
part of it because we're

00:43:26.640 --> 00:43:30.119
as we move on we'll try to Envision new

00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:33.400
human we try not to make it it's very

00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.559
hard to Envision a positive future

00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:38.640
unless you just Leap Forward and create

00:43:38.640 --> 00:43:42.920
la la you know Utopia um it's very hard

00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:47.559
to um but you know Len Rachel Anderson

00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.960
who I had on uh I think last festival

00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:52.960
and I'm going to get it wrong she she

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.040
wrote a little essay saying she's no

00:43:55.040 --> 00:43:57.960
longer be asso metamodernism not because

00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.520
she doesn't like it but

00:44:00.520 --> 00:44:05.119
because um um she's at in her last book

00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:06.839
she's advocating for something I think

00:44:06.839 --> 00:44:10.119
she calls it multim modernism I can't

00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.240
remember what she calls it but she

00:44:12.240 --> 00:44:16.839
really has this this Vision that um

00:44:16.839 --> 00:44:22.920
people will be um farmers and Di uh uh

00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.839
digital no digital workers at the same

00:44:25.839 --> 00:44:27.000
time

00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.480
and you know she says that we're going

00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:33.800
to reclaim many of these things and be

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:35.640
technologically advanced at the same

00:44:35.640 --> 00:44:39.000
time so so and not in sequence like most

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.680
of us are most of us we we work on the

00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:43.040
farm and then we move the other

00:44:43.040 --> 00:44:44.680
direction and then maybe when we retire

00:44:44.680 --> 00:44:46.160
we have one of these Hobby Farms

00:44:46.160 --> 00:44:50.400
afterwards or something like that um so

00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:55.000
um the the fact that we can start to see

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.920
that that is is they're not antithetical

00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.000
to each other that they're Parts all

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.079
parts of a human condition that are in

00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.599
ourselves um but then some people

00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.319
Envision you know one of the biggest

00:45:09.319 --> 00:45:11.680
things about see we're all we all talk

00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:13.680
about

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:18.480
AI um and chat GPT and we all go on chat

00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.960
GPT and see if it it can produce

00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.400
interesting essays and knowledge and

00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:26.079
stuff because we're all a bunch of like

00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.359
like knowledge Geeks or something that's

00:45:28.359 --> 00:45:30.920
not where the power of chat of AI is

00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:33.160
it's not in chat gbt it's in the fact

00:45:33.160 --> 00:45:35.599
that you can speak to it and tell it to

00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.640
do things WR a program so the car now

00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:43.559
changes from this to that um uh do a

00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.160
diagnosis on this person and then come

00:45:46.160 --> 00:45:48.240
and then manufacture the drugs that and

00:45:48.240 --> 00:45:50.480
then and so what the thing does is does

00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.800
diagnosis and then it it goes and finds

00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:54.960
the right other app to talk to that

00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.599
talks to the pharmacist app and all

00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.680
these things that happen happen through

00:46:00.680 --> 00:46:03.000
uh gbt talking to you and talking to

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.680
each other and this is really why it

00:46:05.680 --> 00:46:07.760
threatens Humanity not because it's

00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:12.200
going to create essays for kids or it's

00:46:12.200 --> 00:46:16.480
or or with your knowledge uh the

00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.400
internet also already has all the

00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:20.640
information that the world knows and

00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:23.559
chat gpt's just recently been let to

00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:26.480
look at it all it's because because it's

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:29.800
going to have a main line into every

00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:33.920
single service every single real service

00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:36.880
that humans have done in the past or at

00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.720
least that's their Vision I happen to

00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:40.599
think humans won't stand for it that

00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:42.800
there'd be huge bloody revolutions

00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:44.400
because people don't give a if they

00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.760
die they don't want to live in Worlds

00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.040
like that we go crazy like animals in a

00:46:49.040 --> 00:46:53.559
cage and um eventually uh we prefer the

00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:55.800
blood bath over things like that which

00:46:55.800 --> 00:47:00.680
which is a funny way to be hopeful uh

00:47:00.680 --> 00:47:04.000
but um you know but of course the armies

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:07.200
will be digital too and uh be able to be

00:47:07.200 --> 00:47:09.280
talked to by leaders and blah blah blah

00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.960
okay so this is

00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:15.240
why artificial general intelligence is

00:47:15.240 --> 00:47:17.680
uh such a big deal and it's not because

00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:21.119
it's going to help you with jat TPT it's

00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.119
because it's going to do all the de if a

00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.040
leader can say things it's going to

00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:27.680
handle all the

00:47:27.680 --> 00:47:29.680
downstream um

00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:31.440
decisions

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:38.040
um um from from there um and

00:47:38.040 --> 00:47:43.440
um so uh so that's the opposite of lenie

00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:48.400
Anderson's uh Vision um one dis one says

00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.400
um what's hopeful is that we learn that

00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.480
we need those not just because it's not

00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.800
just a fantasy so we be a retro Roman

00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:59.000
ANC it makes us human um and there are

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:02.880
those that uh really are excited about

00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:07.319
displacing um displacing those those so

00:48:07.319 --> 00:48:08.930
I don't know

00:48:08.930 --> 00:48:12.000
[Music]

00:48:13.680 --> 00:48:17.040
um yeah I don't

00:48:24.640 --> 00:48:27.640
know

00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.200
I wish it was I wish it you know like I

00:48:34.200 --> 00:48:36.559
used I grew up watching Tarzan movies

00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.480
and then what what Tarzan would do when

00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:42.119
the Colonials were coming in and I don't

00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:43.280
forget what they were doing they were

00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:45.119
doing something he would just call all

00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:47.359
the animals and they would all come and

00:48:47.359 --> 00:48:50.599
trample them down in the rhinos and the

00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.000
elephants and they would all come and

00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.000
help and then they'd go back to be being

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.079
rhinos and and elephants and tigers and

00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.799
stuff so that would be my fantasy we're

00:48:59.799 --> 00:49:02.960
just going to call in all the animals to

00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:06.480
for Vault all all at

00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.400
once want to offer like a just a I guess

00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.440
a reflection

00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:19.880
um like bringing it back to this

00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:24.480
individuation thing it sounds to me like

00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.559
and maybe this is too simple

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:29.079
but maybe

00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:33.280
the the way to kind of

00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:37.040
individuate in this modern time

00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:41.720
is is towards the real like what is

00:49:41.720 --> 00:49:46.960
towards the bonfires towards the poop

00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:50.559
but you know I can see the economic part

00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.400
being a big issue with that like you

00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.160
know Charlie said it's

00:49:56.160 --> 00:49:59.400
not exactly always economical

00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.599
or you know and also what he said about

00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.040
the the political divides like I feel

00:50:06.040 --> 00:50:08.880
like I I know for myself

00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.200
like you know I don't yeah I want to go

00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:15.000
work on the farm and live on the farm

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.960
and stuff like that but you know I also

00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:21.920
like have this in my mind of like you

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.839
know I'm you know I'm gay and you know

00:50:24.839 --> 00:50:26.200
I'm more

00:50:26.200 --> 00:50:30.359
more kind of fluid whatever open mind I

00:50:30.359 --> 00:50:32.240
don't know kind of

00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:35.240
a different mind and it's like oh do I

00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:37.359
want would I fit in with those people

00:50:37.359 --> 00:50:40.280
like would I can or like there's a

00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:42.280
there's a social political thing there

00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:43.680
too so

00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:47.839
that's I don't know that's that's a f I

00:50:47.839 --> 00:50:49.839
think that's real but I think it's a

00:50:49.839 --> 00:50:52.160
little bit trumped up you know I think I

00:50:52.160 --> 00:50:55.480
think everything on look I grew up

00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:59.720
people were bigots but they never would

00:50:59.720 --> 00:51:01.760
say even in private some of the things

00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:05.440
people say on social media there just no

00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:09.680
way um um and not because they weren't

00:51:09.680 --> 00:51:12.559
bigots it's just they were civil they

00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.160
did at some level understand these are

00:51:15.160 --> 00:51:17.920
human beings you know and I'll tell you

00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:19.799
a funny story

00:51:19.799 --> 00:51:23.920
so the lady up the road she's a real

00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.200
like not an

00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:29.440
intellectual maybe in in you know some

00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.119
some of the my neighbors are good

00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:32.960
Farmers but they're also very smart and

00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:34.640
they work equipment and they build their

00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:38.720
houses well she's married to the son who

00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:43.240
is a little uh in intellectually

00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:47.559
challenged and she herself is um they're

00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:49.680
kind of they they they're Farmers but

00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:53.520
they're kind of funny okay um so she all

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:56.640
her life grew uh uh

00:51:56.640 --> 00:52:03.599
llamas and um uh and use their fur to

00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:06.839
spin it and make make

00:52:06.839 --> 00:52:10.920
um make uh wool and and sweaters and

00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:12.520
stuff like that but she also would go to

00:52:12.520 --> 00:52:14.240
these trade shows you bring your best

00:52:14.240 --> 00:52:16.880
dud llamas and this and that and she had

00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:18.799
this friend she was told me about that

00:52:18.799 --> 00:52:20.720
he was there every year at these trade

00:52:20.720 --> 00:52:23.440
shows and she's telling me she's like

00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:26.640
and now he's a girl damn if I call him a

00:52:26.640 --> 00:52:29.280
girl but you could tell she was really

00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.920
looking forward to talking to him you

00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:36.359
know and her mind was all like like

00:52:36.359 --> 00:52:38.799
like she didn't say anything really bad

00:52:38.799 --> 00:52:41.559
about it but like and he I'm GNA call

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:43.839
him a he he's still a cranky thing when

00:52:43.839 --> 00:52:45.760
he loses and stuff like that but you

00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.400
could see he she couldn't get away from

00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.720
being his friend right and she's all

00:52:51.720 --> 00:52:53.440
like she had to

00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:55.760
go and and

00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.160
it wasn't something that she can't

00:52:58.160 --> 00:53:01.079
process being Trans in her mind and I I

00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:02.920
don't think this person is Young either

00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:05.359
which is even maybe a little harder

00:53:05.359 --> 00:53:07.760
right so that's what I would call being

00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:14.240
a bigot you know she but but she's

00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:21.000
not nowhere near judgmental as some of

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.319
this like nowhere not even the same

00:53:23.319 --> 00:53:25.240
category as the stuff you see on soci

00:53:25.240 --> 00:53:28.240
social media she's it's a more throw

00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:36.400
your hands up you know like like um and

00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:42.559
um but it's complex you know um I think

00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:46.319
that recently there are there are there

00:53:46.319 --> 00:53:48.319
is a counter veillance you know like

00:53:48.319 --> 00:53:50.000
there's so much woke culture and so much

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:52.960
being thrown down there's so much uh

00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:55.280
shame you know we're all people being as

00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.640
shamed that they have an equal

00:53:57.640 --> 00:54:01.400
opportunity equal and and you know

00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:04.760
opposite hatred sometimes of these

00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:07.440
social transitions when you see your

00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.200
whole neighborhood being destroyed by

00:54:10.200 --> 00:54:12.400
technology and you associate that with

00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.440
wokeness and these social transition

00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.079
things um I don't think there's

00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:23.000
real country that are are in the US that

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:27.480
are horribly anti- I think trans thing

00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:31.799
is still very difficult for people um

00:54:31.799 --> 00:54:34.359
and I think uh real rural counties are

00:54:34.359 --> 00:54:37.760
very can be very bigoted but there it's

00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:41.240
nothing like you see on social

00:54:41.240 --> 00:54:43.920
media yeah that makes sense coming to

00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.760
think of it even

00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:49.559
actually I just do I I live in Vancouver

00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:52.079
and I just drove across the border a

00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.760
month ago or so I drove um this is kind

00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:58.040
of like a rural environment up to mount

00:54:58.040 --> 00:55:02.119
uh Mount Baker it was just beautiful and

00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:03.680
but it's interesting because it was like

00:55:03.680 --> 00:55:05.839
a a big mix of like yeah you get the

00:55:05.839 --> 00:55:07.640
rule you get like a lot of churches a

00:55:07.640 --> 00:55:10.799
lot of you know Bible camps and stuff

00:55:10.799 --> 00:55:13.240
like that American flags all that stuff

00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:15.280
but there's also kind of an interesting

00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:18.559
mix it's not just that and even that

00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:20.319
part it's like yeah I it's like yeah I'm

00:55:20.319 --> 00:55:22.319
sure like you know probably people doing

00:55:22.319 --> 00:55:24.440
people things there's also an

00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:27.280
interesting of like a it's kind of like

00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.440
a I don't know hippie Vibe as

00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:34.000
well it is it's not just

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.079
yeah and I don't want to say like you

00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:40.280
know it's not just you know Farm folk

00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.440
because you know like you just said it's

00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:44.079
you know there're just people but I

00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:47.319
don't know yeah so like here there there

00:55:47.319 --> 00:55:51.400
are you know there's different

00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:54.119
different levels of intelligences and

00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:55.880
stuff and the thing about rural

00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.440
communities is there's more places for

00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:01.039
people of low intellectual ability the

00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:02.640
town drunk just lives in the same

00:56:02.640 --> 00:56:03.960
neighborhood you don't put them

00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:07.280
somewhere so you you can get a a lot of

00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.680
diversity um in in a small small space

00:56:12.680 --> 00:56:14.799
there are some real Trump lovers here

00:56:14.799 --> 00:56:16.839
and some real Biden haters and then

00:56:16.839 --> 00:56:20.799
there's some opposite people here um

00:56:20.799 --> 00:56:22.200
especially if they moved out from New

00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:24.480
York City you know we all we all get

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:25.880
along

00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:30.079
so um we try not to talk

00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:34.160
politics so

00:56:34.160 --> 00:56:38.000
um okay any other Reflections as uh we

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.480
continue let's

00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:46.039
um it's all very

00:56:46.039 --> 00:56:48.599
good so this is cool because this is all

00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:53.880
in this module least this this question

00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.880
um

00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.839
so I want to talk about the um um

00:57:01.839 --> 00:57:04.400
identity hopefully many of you saw at

00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:06.680
least the first one H identity across

00:57:06.680 --> 00:57:07.599
the

00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.280
lifespan

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:13.920
um because there's some meta uh

00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:15.920
teachings in there that I would like to

00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:18.960
talk about specifically the pattern that

00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:21.880
goes from when you're just the actor to

00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:24.920
the agent of your actions to the A

00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:28.960
author of the agents to the self author

00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:31.079
blah blah blah and that does anybody

00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:36.000
remember the pattern that is the same

00:57:49.640 --> 00:57:52.599
across so the pattern I'll just we just

00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:55.640
want to the important I mean you get in

00:57:55.640 --> 00:57:57.640
the details we're not talking about

00:57:57.640 --> 00:58:02.160
identity across the lifespan here um but

00:58:02.160 --> 00:58:06.920
the pattern is um a psychological one

00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:10.839
and um that is at first you're just the

00:58:10.839 --> 00:58:13.000
actor you know that that's what they

00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.319
call it in developmental manuals but

00:58:15.319 --> 00:58:18.359
it's a it's a bad term because we think

00:58:18.359 --> 00:58:21.039
of actors as performing but we just mean

00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:22.960
the behaviors you're just the

00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.160
behaviors then at some point become

00:58:25.160 --> 00:58:27.000
aware that you have many different

00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.319
behaviors and that makes you nervous so

00:58:30.319 --> 00:58:32.520
a new structure comes to integrate them

00:58:32.520 --> 00:58:36.920
called the agent I'm the agent of the

00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:39.359
behaviors so now you see I have control

00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:41.960
I can control over which behaviors I

00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.559
choose which behaviors I have then

00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:46.520
around puberty you realize that the

00:58:46.520 --> 00:58:48.319
agent themselves are drastically

00:58:48.319 --> 00:58:49.880
different like I'm real different when

00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:51.640
I'm trying to talk to my girlfriend than

00:58:51.640 --> 00:58:54.319
when I'm talking to my friends and

00:58:54.319 --> 00:58:56.960
that's switch happens without me having

00:58:56.960 --> 00:59:00.359
agency over it so now you say oh when

00:59:00.359 --> 00:59:02.319
I'm with my girlfriend I'm the author of

00:59:02.319 --> 00:59:04.559
the agent of these actions and and then

00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:07.839
so you step back again and now you have

00:59:07.839 --> 00:59:11.240
a an individual structure that can

00:59:11.240 --> 00:59:16.200
account for why there's many diverse

00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.200
things then you feel eventually you

00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:20.920
realize that the author has different

00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:22.760
scripts and different voices and this

00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:25.440
and that and you become the self author

00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.799
and you start to have a single

00:59:27.799 --> 00:59:30.599
biographical narrative that can count

00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:35.000
for all this this stuff so you you put

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.799
it into a biogra autobiographical

00:59:37.799 --> 00:59:39.960
narrative and the narrative itself is

00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:42.480
just like one of these weird books you

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:44.079
know where A lot's going on but it's

00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:46.640
still the same book and you have this

00:59:46.640 --> 00:59:50.359
impression that it has an you know a

00:59:50.359 --> 00:59:52.839
plot line and it's going to go and solve

00:59:52.839 --> 00:59:54.599
something in the end and this makes you

00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:56.160
feel whole again well I don't know how

00:59:56.160 --> 00:59:57.520
the story is going to unfold and there's

00:59:57.520 --> 01:00:00.880
a lot going on but it is one book it is

01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:04.319
one story it's my autobiography okay so

01:00:04.319 --> 01:00:06.960
that's a structure it's a more abstract

01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:09.880
structure um but this makes us feel

01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:11.720
whole so it's call what we're concerned

01:00:11.720 --> 01:00:13.359
about is narrative coherence

01:00:13.359 --> 01:00:16.839
autobiographical narrative

01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:21.839
coherence so the structure repeats that

01:00:21.839 --> 01:00:24.880
whenever we become aware of something

01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:27.359
the diversity of the human our human

01:00:27.359 --> 01:00:31.400
condition we need another psychological

01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:34.240
structure

01:00:34.240 --> 01:00:38.200
to integrate it as

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.039
something so in the third portion that

01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.319
and so that that goes all the way

01:00:45.319 --> 01:00:47.160
through into the last SE in the last

01:00:47.160 --> 01:00:51.680
section you realize that that is the

01:00:51.680 --> 01:00:55.240
problem that difference in most

01:00:55.240 --> 01:00:58.200
multiplicity you makes you

01:00:58.200 --> 01:01:00.920
nervous so you get people to see for

01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:02.520
example if you're teaching young people

01:01:02.520 --> 01:01:04.280
when they're at this stage they're

01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.280
really into trying to find the authentic

01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:08.760
authentic

01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:11.160
self they're trying to figure out what

01:01:11.160 --> 01:01:13.720
is authentic in me again they're trying

01:01:13.720 --> 01:01:16.359
to look for the one thing that is truly

01:01:16.359 --> 01:01:18.680
authentic that they can identify with

01:01:18.680 --> 01:01:21.079
because they're there's too much

01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:23.160
plurality that they're trying to deal

01:01:23.160 --> 01:01:26.079
with and they're own experience does

01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:29.079
this make sense and the thing is I've

01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:31.680
had many many students in my Master's

01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:34.400
course come in to my course saying I'm

01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:37.039
gonna write about the authentic self and

01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.720
then they get so confused because they

01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:41.280
can't find it and then it gets to

01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.760
abstract and the abstractions they can

01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:45.119
you know they start to read young and

01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:46.760
they start to read this and they and

01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:49.319
then like it even the authentic self

01:01:49.319 --> 01:01:52.680
becomes like this huge multi-headed

01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:56.720
crazy complex diverse thing no one has

01:01:56.720 --> 01:01:59.480
ever finished this I just go uhhuh

01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:02.240
that's that's great uhuh no one's ever

01:02:02.240 --> 01:02:04.839
finish

01:02:06.839 --> 01:02:12.039
this so um this the one of the big

01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:14.720
things in the identity project across

01:02:14.720 --> 01:02:18.000
the LIF span is to realize this you'll

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:20.520
only ever see

01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:23.000
difference but the thing that's seeing

01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:25.680
is whole but you'll never ever see its

01:02:25.680 --> 01:02:28.640
wholeness if you try to find it it will

01:02:28.640 --> 01:02:31.079
just become different you have to

01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:33.319
establish a

01:02:33.319 --> 01:02:35.920
confidence in that the reason why you

01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:37.640
only see difference is because it's

01:02:37.640 --> 01:02:40.240
coming from

01:02:41.640 --> 01:02:44.359
wholeness and you stop having to do that

01:02:44.359 --> 01:02:47.119
you just have this sense of

01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:50.200
confidence that the the the individ and

01:02:50.200 --> 01:02:51.880
this is what individuation is you're

01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.839
completely whole you'll never C capture

01:02:54.839 --> 01:02:58.119
it either in your body or in your system

01:02:58.119 --> 01:03:01.680
or your abstractions or your story or

01:03:01.680 --> 01:03:04.400
your artwork or anything those are

01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:08.039
always this the the the self is the

01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:11.599
whole engine that generates all that and

01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:13.960
displays it for

01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.240
you and that's what Young meant by

01:03:16.240 --> 01:03:18.359
individuation you finally are

01:03:18.359 --> 01:03:20.880
whole so he talked a lot about the anima

01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:23.359
and the Animus so if you still have this

01:03:23.359 --> 01:03:26.960
problem I only see male and female and Y

01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:30.039
and yeah can we integrate them well you

01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:32.400
have to integrate them in yourself you

01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:36.119
just you just have to come to terms with

01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:37.839
that whole

01:03:37.839 --> 01:03:41.680
pattern is can either go on repeatedly

01:03:41.680 --> 01:03:45.440
or you finally see it you finally see

01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:47.799
it and you keep trying to integrate

01:03:47.799 --> 01:03:50.359
things out there because it's it's it's

01:03:50.359 --> 01:03:52.880
you're worried about the fact that you

01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:54.720
that you think you're a multiplic you

01:03:54.720 --> 01:03:57.119
think you're

01:04:00.359 --> 01:04:03.319
fragmented but you never find it and the

01:04:03.319 --> 01:04:05.319
authentic self is the biggest trap of

01:04:05.319 --> 01:04:07.680
all you think oh I've been inauthentic

01:04:07.680 --> 01:04:11.079
my whole life you know now I really want

01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:13.039
to be and you go down that path I'm

01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:16.359
telling you

01:04:16.359 --> 01:04:19.200
uh uh so just watch the

01:04:19.200 --> 01:04:22.640
recording um it will drive you crazy

01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:26.200
because you'll never find it

01:04:35.839 --> 01:04:37.559
you could go to something simple like

01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:39.839
God made you the way you are like how

01:04:39.839 --> 01:04:41.599
can you say it's inauthentic I mean you

01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:43.880
are what you

01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:47.640
are you can't get behind yourself and

01:04:47.640 --> 01:04:50.000
restart

01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:52.200
yourself you could tell a story that

01:04:52.200 --> 01:04:53.839
makes sense all the way through but that

01:04:53.839 --> 01:04:55.559
won't

01:04:55.559 --> 01:04:57.799
work pretty soon you find you're telling

01:04:57.799 --> 01:04:59.200
the story differently to different

01:04:59.200 --> 01:05:01.079
people it's all

01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:04.599
contextual um I don't know some of you

01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.279
like people always ask me and Sandy how

01:05:06.279 --> 01:05:08.680
would you meet we just tell the same

01:05:08.680 --> 01:05:10.160
story over and over again it gets

01:05:10.160 --> 01:05:11.920
modified and perfected like a bunch of

01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.039
script writers working on a on a sitcom

01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.119
it actually gets funni all the time then

01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:18.880
he says something and that's my C and I

01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:21.440
say something and he talks about the dog

01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:23.760
and I say oh did you teach him how to

01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:25.200
like

01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:27.400
like it's not even a memory it's just

01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.039
like something

01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:33.559
else um so this is the beginning of

01:05:33.559 --> 01:05:36.359
individuation is to have rendered the

01:05:36.359 --> 01:05:39.119
process the identity process transparent

01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:41.079
see that word GBS are transparent Things

01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:42.480
become transparent to

01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:45.539
[Music]

01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:56.319
us if you're older and you listening to

01:05:56.319 --> 01:05:58.359
this you start to recognize oh yeah if

01:05:58.359 --> 01:06:00.200
you're a young person like poor Matt in

01:06:00.200 --> 01:06:03.440
this course it's very hard because

01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:06.400
you're still very much on your way so

01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:08.279
it's not a process of then you thinking

01:06:08.279 --> 01:06:10.680
oh I want to be like that it's more I'm

01:06:10.680 --> 01:06:12.240
telling you this because this will

01:06:12.240 --> 01:06:14.680
happen you'll say oh yes that's in the

01:06:14.680 --> 01:06:16.160
right direction I learned that in the

01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:18.240
popup course you can't force yourself

01:06:18.240 --> 01:06:20.720
you can't learn yourself to

01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:23.680
this but knowing it you can start to see

01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:25.839
mild Stones it's like the difference

01:06:25.839 --> 01:06:28.319
between you can't well today you can but

01:06:28.319 --> 01:06:29.839
you know if you leave things alone

01:06:29.839 --> 01:06:31.640
you're going to go through

01:06:31.640 --> 01:06:34.000
puberty but if some people say oh that's

01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:35.680
puberty and your hormones are changing

01:06:35.680 --> 01:06:37.319
and stuff that can be helpful but you

01:06:37.319 --> 01:06:39.359
can't as an eight-year-old if you know

01:06:39.359 --> 01:06:41.319
that you can't like get it over and get

01:06:41.319 --> 01:06:42.880
through it better and easier because you

01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:45.359
know about it so we're just don't try to

01:06:45.359 --> 01:06:48.480
take it as a something instruction

01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:51.160
manual but it it could be helpful to

01:06:51.160 --> 01:06:54.880
know that um this seems to be a

01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.839
relatively stable pattern yeah

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:02.240
David or

01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:06.000
Phoebe putting the parent in transparent

01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.440
the other

01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.920
David the other

01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:17.160
David what's that

01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:20.799
d v v is to speak

01:07:20.799 --> 01:07:23.200
d That's what I'm gonna say so it just

01:07:23.200 --> 01:07:25.000
means d

01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:28.400
speak sorry so

01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:33.000
um I had a visualization I was being um

01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:36.359
guided a guided visualization one time

01:07:36.359 --> 01:07:39.119
and um I don't really like being guided

01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:41.200
too much so I got off the track of the

01:07:41.200 --> 01:07:43.760
guide and went into my own thing but the

01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:46.079
the visualization was being a

01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:50.039
lion big massive beautiful lion coming

01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:55.000
to a swamp and lying down in the

01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.279
swamp and choosing to be undone by the

01:07:59.279 --> 01:08:00.720
swamp

01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:06.079
Critters um in while still alive and it

01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:11.039
was like a conscious cocoon thing and

01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:15.039
what I felt was the reason why this lion

01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:19.600
could lie down and allow itself to be

01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:20.600
eaten

01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:24.279
alive and disintegrated was because I

01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:25.759
had

01:08:25.759 --> 01:08:29.799
eyes that saw Beyond being

01:08:29.799 --> 01:08:34.120
Lon and those eyes were

01:08:34.120 --> 01:08:35.640
ready

01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:38.920
uh to maybe to be activated that I

01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:42.159
needed to to bring my identity into a

01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:43.199
new

01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:50.080
place and um it's not that I um knew

01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:53.040
what I was looking for or knew what I

01:08:53.040 --> 01:08:54.679
was looking at

01:08:54.679 --> 01:08:57.799
that um there wasn't

01:08:57.799 --> 01:09:03.359
anything visible calling me but I needed

01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:06.440
to exercise that

01:09:06.440 --> 01:09:10.759
Vision the the lion Vision was uh used

01:09:10.759 --> 01:09:12.400
up in a

01:09:12.400 --> 01:09:14.199
way

01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:17.920
um so that's one

01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:21.640
thing

01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:25.420
uh I'm really fastc at with

01:09:25.420 --> 01:09:27.080
[Music]

01:09:27.080 --> 01:09:29.960
um this idea

01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:32.199
of Shifting

01:09:32.199 --> 01:09:35.799
identities and that the that it's

01:09:35.799 --> 01:09:40.120
the that it's the part that's doing the

01:09:40.120 --> 01:09:42.679
integrating that is whole and that there

01:09:42.679 --> 01:09:45.880
isn't a wholeness out there to be

01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:50.440
found and so what is that experience

01:09:50.440 --> 01:09:52.480
of

01:09:52.480 --> 01:09:54.520
um a

01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:57.120
allowing and allowing is a strange word

01:09:57.120 --> 01:09:58.239
because it's going to happen whether you

01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:04.560
allow it or not but um the experience

01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:07.320
of witnessing

01:10:07.320 --> 01:10:12.440
maybe um all the different possibilities

01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:14.960
and then allowing oneself to inhabit

01:10:14.960 --> 01:10:17.679
different subjectivities and different

01:10:17.679 --> 01:10:22.040
ways of being and looking um and so so

01:10:22.040 --> 01:10:24.840
an unresolved

01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.560
diversity that is constantly bubbling up

01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:34.280
new and yet the uh the sense

01:10:34.280 --> 01:10:37.280
of

01:10:38.440 --> 01:10:41.600
um okay the word abiding comes up that's

01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:45.320
too concrete but the sense of

01:10:45.320 --> 01:10:46.480
[Music]

01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:50.000
um being an

01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:55.199
organ

01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.760
being kind of a locust in a way of will

01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:02.159
force or something that can that can

01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:05.760
uh hold it

01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:15.400
all but it's also a feeling of becoming

01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:19.199
non-local that the

01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:27.000
local esses maybe that that we maybe H

01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:29.800
that maybe have been our Lions of the

01:11:29.800 --> 01:11:34.560
past those those local they they become

01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:38.440
um done they need to die and be

01:11:38.440 --> 01:11:40.199
disintegrated

01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:43.600
um anyways that's that's just

01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:46.400
a not anyways David and I are practicing

01:11:46.400 --> 01:11:48.000
not saying anyways because usually it's

01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:49.400
a threshold moment where there's

01:11:49.400 --> 01:11:50.840
something really bigger that wants to

01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:54.520
come in and then uh so so try to stay in

01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:55.679
that tension

01:11:55.679 --> 01:12:00.679
of you know what is it

01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:02.880
um I'm

01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:04.920
aroused

01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:07.880
by this idea

01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:09.440
of

01:12:09.440 --> 01:12:12.800
finding new

01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:14.840
identity in the

01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.719
disintegration

01:12:16.719 --> 01:12:18.719
of

01:12:18.719 --> 01:12:22.080
uh not only in the disintegration but in

01:12:22.080 --> 01:12:24.760
the opening to

01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:26.000
things that

01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:27.639
are

01:12:27.639 --> 01:12:30.480
moving that haven't

01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:34.560
yet come into any kind of

01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:37.400
coherence

01:12:37.400 --> 01:12:42.560
um and so for me a a the capacity

01:12:42.560 --> 01:12:46.159
is one of the capacities is

01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.400
arousal one of the capacities is you

01:12:49.400 --> 01:12:52.440
know the the

01:12:52.440 --> 01:12:58.440
uh sense of flow the sense of um

01:12:58.440 --> 01:13:01.960
something is moving and if I can

01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:03.520
become

01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:05.280
incoherent

01:13:05.280 --> 01:13:09.920
enough I can move with it and become

01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:11.880
available to

01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:13.880
something

01:13:13.880 --> 01:13:16.810
uh more or new

01:13:16.810 --> 01:13:19.239
[Music]

01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:22.360
um I don't have a real question other

01:13:22.360 --> 01:13:25.360
than

01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:30.239
uh curious about what is this

01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:32.360
self-development that

01:13:32.360 --> 01:13:37.120
is in play delightfully in

01:13:37.120 --> 01:13:38.130
play

01:13:38.130 --> 01:13:40.320
[Music]

01:13:40.320 --> 01:13:43.360
um what does that have to do with you

01:13:43.360 --> 01:13:46.800
talked about two belongings you know the

01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:51.800
um I want to refer back

01:13:52.360 --> 01:13:55.520
um so we all need that personal

01:13:55.520 --> 01:13:59.080
belonging and my personal belonging

01:13:59.080 --> 01:14:05.960
keeps um opening because this feeling

01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:09.760
of allowing myself to

01:14:09.760 --> 01:14:11.960
disintegrate because there's something

01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:16.280
moving that is that feels more real that

01:14:16.280 --> 01:14:18.440
feels more

01:14:18.440 --> 01:14:21.440
delicious

01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:24.360
um

01:14:24.360 --> 01:14:26.360
oh I don't know what I'm GNA say so so

01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:28.030
that

01:14:28.030 --> 01:14:29.199
[Music]

01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.400
ongoing

01:14:31.400 --> 01:14:34.920
becoming I I I will say that that that

01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:36.760
is something that happens for me in my

01:14:36.760 --> 01:14:39.600
own personal practice but it also

01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:42.560
happens profoundly David and I when on

01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:44.440
the phone and also when we're together

01:14:44.440 --> 01:14:45.639
we have

01:14:45.639 --> 01:14:49.880
this we meet in this place of

01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:51.719
uh

01:14:51.719 --> 01:14:55.560
uh listening for what's what's moving

01:14:55.560 --> 01:14:59.120
and and speaking the new and then being

01:14:59.120 --> 01:15:01.360
seen and mirrored so this is maybe where

01:15:01.360 --> 01:15:04.960
Community comes in and being um that

01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:07.800
that the the that what the realness that

01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:09.600
moves

01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:14.199
in in me that gives me this the the uh

01:15:14.199 --> 01:15:17.159
delight and the courage to let go of who

01:15:17.159 --> 01:15:22.199
I've been you know that uh becomes more

01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:26.320
real in in a communal

01:15:26.320 --> 01:15:30.400
sharing it becomes more visible it comes

01:15:30.400 --> 01:15:34.560
into uh some kind of a a

01:15:34.560 --> 01:15:39.800
shared um delight and a shared moving

01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:42.560
that feels more like the nature of life

01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:48.199
is is the sharing of this

01:15:51.199 --> 01:15:54.200
uh moving evolv

01:15:54.200 --> 01:15:55.560
[Music]

01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.560
in so I think I've come to the end of

01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:00.600
what I'm able to

01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:03.760
say I G to go back to your lion your

01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:07.400
lion thing

01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:13.040
um so

01:16:13.040 --> 01:16:17.400
um why are we talking about this now um

01:16:17.400 --> 01:16:20.639
and you know we start this this

01:16:20.639 --> 01:16:24.120
technological systems this world we live

01:16:24.120 --> 01:16:26.840
in is going to do something different

01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:29.800
with our identity project right so so

01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:32.800
these these things that I describe are

01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:35.480
been stable for a while I'm gonna get to

01:16:35.480 --> 01:16:36.960
your line I'm

01:16:36.960 --> 01:16:41.679
just backing up to move toward

01:16:41.679 --> 01:16:46.639
it um so when um please watch the

01:16:46.639 --> 01:16:50.360
recording uh so when um the recession

01:16:50.360 --> 01:16:54.199
hit and um

01:16:54.199 --> 01:16:56.000
many of my friends lost their job

01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.199
they're at the peak of their career many

01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:00.840
many of them I would say 60% of them

01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:03.320
became dysfunctional people they either

01:17:03.320 --> 01:17:07.560
committed suicide or um became raving

01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:11.120
alcoholics because for these people role

01:17:11.120 --> 01:17:12.840
which is way down you know one of the

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.600
earlier identities was their

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:19.960
identity um they were bluecollar workers

01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:23.520
so this this took a long time for very

01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:24.960
few

01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:28.360
adults modern very few people graduating

01:17:28.360 --> 01:17:31.080
from college today will self-identify

01:17:31.080 --> 01:17:33.679
with their role at work the careers are

01:17:33.679 --> 01:17:36.480
too short and they just move from one

01:17:36.480 --> 01:17:39.520
career to another blah blah blah okay so

01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:41.639
then now we have autobiographical

01:17:41.639 --> 01:17:44.040
narrative and this one's going to get be

01:17:44.040 --> 01:17:48.360
tricky in the coming future

01:17:49.199 --> 01:17:51.560
because this is where your lying thing

01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:54.000
comes through you don't want to be on

01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:56.120
your deathbed feeling you never

01:17:56.120 --> 01:17:58.159
completed your

01:17:58.159 --> 01:17:59.920
novel because you're not going to

01:17:59.920 --> 01:18:02.320
complete it changes too fast some people

01:18:02.320 --> 01:18:04.400
in the past could get there I always

01:18:04.400 --> 01:18:06.440
wanted to be a nurse and then I always

01:18:06.440 --> 01:18:07.840
wanted to have family and be a

01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:09.639
grandmother and then they're on their

01:18:09.639 --> 01:18:12.320
death bed and they're yes they turn the

01:18:12.320 --> 01:18:15.239
last page

01:18:15.480 --> 01:18:19.320
Ah that's a beautiful place to

01:18:19.320 --> 01:18:21.960
be but God forbid you think that's going

01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:23.760
to happen on the AR that that it's not

01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:25.960
going to happen it's just going to be

01:18:25.960 --> 01:18:28.960
just this open what the

01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:33.000
 so we have to get it we have to get

01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:36.840
people across this is a a work of of

01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:40.679
service um because it's hard it's hard

01:18:40.679 --> 01:18:42.199
for people to have gotten to the

01:18:42.199 --> 01:18:44.239
autobiographical coherence and really

01:18:44.239 --> 01:18:46.960
worked on that and worked on that and

01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:49.159
changed and opened up and this and that

01:18:49.159 --> 01:18:51.000
but they are going to be on their

01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:53.239
deathbed and not have closed their book

01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:56.679
book because the book is not able to be

01:18:56.679 --> 01:18:58.600
closed anymore the world changes too

01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:00.440
fast you're going to open up on a page

01:19:00.440 --> 01:19:02.639
it's going to be like one of those

01:19:02.639 --> 01:19:05.840
 TV series where you sweat the

01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:07.320
whole thing and then the last thing

01:19:07.320 --> 01:19:10.400
you're like what the that's how

01:19:10.400 --> 01:19:14.159
that's how our lives are going to be

01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:17.040
now can you feel it that's the lion what

01:19:17.040 --> 01:19:18.280
you that's what you're

01:19:18.280 --> 01:19:21.840
saying um and

01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:24.880
and we don't want people especially

01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:27.600
Elders who have something to

01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:30.400
contribute uh

01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:37.159
to um lose it as things heat up um and

01:19:37.159 --> 01:19:38.280
all

01:19:38.280 --> 01:19:42.080
our ways of

01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:54.159
establishing

01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:58.760
um meaning are on the table in this kind

01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:03.440
of world and then and if we understand

01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:06.159
that then we can help people who grow up

01:20:06.159 --> 01:20:08.159
in this world now there the identity

01:20:08.159 --> 01:20:09.600
structures are going to be different we

01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:11.080
don't know what they're going to look

01:20:11.080 --> 01:20:15.760
like but this is a big requirement

01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:20.040
um uh for people of our age and a little

01:20:20.040 --> 01:20:24.320
bit younger um the younger people they

01:20:24.320 --> 01:20:26.600
won't have ever thought that their life

01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:29.120
was going to be a book there there'll be

01:20:29.120 --> 01:20:30.880
something else coming along but I think

01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:33.360
the same structure of bait and switch

01:20:33.360 --> 01:20:35.639
bait and switch will happen for as long

01:20:35.639 --> 01:20:37.000
as we're Homo

01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:41.120
sapiens um so uh the ident helping in

01:20:41.120 --> 01:20:44.960
the identity project is is is a big deal

01:20:44.960 --> 01:20:48.120
now uh there's whole cultures that don't

01:20:48.120 --> 01:20:50.159
close their books and this becomes

01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.320
extremely problematic in our society

01:20:52.320 --> 01:20:54.600
this is what a lot of the the wars are

01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:57.159
after there's a tension between the

01:20:57.159 --> 01:21:00.239
eruption of the pace of change and the

01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:02.000
cultures that don't want to close their

01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:04.280
books it's all the same things one is a

01:21:04.280 --> 01:21:05.639
collective version of the other does

01:21:05.639 --> 01:21:07.480
this make sense does this metaphor make

01:21:07.480 --> 01:21:11.199
sense yeah it's see and it's sad for us

01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:14.159
to who are older to realize yes we're

01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:17.719
going to be asked once

01:21:18.080 --> 01:21:20.239
again

01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:23.600
um but um

01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:25.800
if you're lucky you get a little bit of

01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:31.080
um of uh um what is it

01:21:31.679 --> 01:21:34.520
called it's not Alzheimer's it's the L

01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:37.440
important what's what's the less list

01:21:37.440 --> 01:21:40.440
dementia dementia people they don't they

01:21:40.440 --> 01:21:41.920
forget about their book so if you're

01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:44.000
lucky you get a little dementia and you

01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:47.280
you enjoy life again because the book

01:21:47.280 --> 01:21:49.920
has been long gone after a certain point

01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:54.480
of dementia um yeah Lions of the past

01:21:54.480 --> 01:21:56.120
and see the beauty of the lon is that

01:21:56.120 --> 01:21:57.040
it's

01:21:57.040 --> 01:21:59.199
beautiful it's beautiful it's

01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:02.280
antithetical to the SW it's a it's we

01:22:02.280 --> 01:22:04.159
don't want to turn our back

01:22:04.159 --> 01:22:07.960
on the beauty of the aspiration as we we

01:22:07.960 --> 01:22:10.280
let it go

01:22:10.280 --> 01:22:13.280
um

01:22:18.360 --> 01:22:21.560
um I have a comment

01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:24.040
again

01:22:24.040 --> 01:22:26.920
what you're talking about like to me I

01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:30.560
think I noticed

01:22:31.159 --> 01:22:32.800
like

01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:36.719
and this sense of like my career or job

01:22:36.719 --> 01:22:39.040
as being like a solid sense like that's

01:22:39.040 --> 01:22:40.800
where I feel like what you're talking

01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:43.239
about like that sense of identity like I

01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:44.840
don't I don't have one but like I feel

01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.800
like that's oh if I get that that will

01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:49.400
be

01:22:49.400 --> 01:22:53.560
great that will be like yeah a sense of

01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:56.880
like oh goodness or purpose

01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:59.199
and I feel

01:22:59.199 --> 01:23:02.239
like like what you're saying correct me

01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:04.719
if I'm wrong

01:23:04.719 --> 01:23:07.440
but so far it hasn't happened and it

01:23:07.440 --> 01:23:09.880
seems almost like maybe that's

01:23:09.880 --> 01:23:13.560
not it requires a letting and either e

01:23:13.560 --> 01:23:16.159
either requires trying to get

01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:18.679
it which is good you know there's good

01:23:18.679 --> 01:23:22.560
things about that but the other move see

01:23:22.560 --> 01:23:26.920
seems to me is a Letting Go which feels

01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:28.440
not

01:23:28.440 --> 01:23:32.320
as grounded or something yeah so I would

01:23:32.320 --> 01:23:35.320
suggest you let go of the career androll

01:23:35.320 --> 01:23:37.520
because they don't exist anymore

01:23:37.520 --> 01:23:39.199
companies don't want you forever and

01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:41.400
they you got to change but you what you

01:23:41.400 --> 01:23:43.840
could do is establish a strong

01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:46.000
autobiographical understanding of

01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:48.520
yourself who are you where would you

01:23:48.520 --> 01:23:51.000
like to go oh I see that I've made these

01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:53.520
changes in my life now I happen to be

01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:55.480
telling you that you have to get rid of

01:23:55.480 --> 01:24:00.159
that also but you need you you you need

01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:02.639
something so this would be very good to

01:24:02.639 --> 01:24:06.199
have a strong absent your career like

01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:07.800
who are you now what have you always

01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:09.800
been looking for I see this is always

01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:12.600
how I've been and here's my mistakes so

01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:14.840
this would be very helpful to generate

01:24:14.840 --> 01:24:18.440
now um yeah because you just happen to

01:24:18.440 --> 01:24:21.080
be grown up in a time where

01:24:21.080 --> 01:24:22.880
like you

01:24:22.880 --> 01:24:25.760
it's not really possible to maybe in

01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:27.880
Russia where there's a lot of old boy

01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:31.000
school and stuff like that and um but in

01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:34.199
the in the most of the world even in in

01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:36.400
developing countries it's not like that

01:24:36.400 --> 01:24:40.280
it's not like that anymore um it's not a

01:24:40.280 --> 01:24:42.080
stable it's not a stable structure

01:24:42.080 --> 01:24:45.320
anymore even doctors you know like I

01:24:45.320 --> 01:24:48.320
know so many doctors that just retired

01:24:48.320 --> 01:24:50.320
early because Medicare and all this got

01:24:50.320 --> 01:24:52.880
it's so not doctor-like anymore

01:24:52.880 --> 01:24:55.080
they saw their incomes just plummet over

01:24:55.080 --> 01:24:57.400
the over at the top of their career they

01:24:57.400 --> 01:24:59.000
were making less than when they first

01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:01.199
were interns and all this you know

01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:05.280
so um yeah um your your parents might be

01:25:05.280 --> 01:25:07.239
thinking that's what you should do

01:25:07.239 --> 01:25:08.960
because they may have been lucky enough

01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:12.239
to have careers but um anyways it's not

01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:14.360
it's not a stable structure in in our

01:25:14.360 --> 01:25:17.800
society anymore you yeah so this working

01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:20.000
on your autobiographical coherence would

01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:21.280
be very

01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:24.280
important

01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:26.719
I think that's

01:25:26.719 --> 01:25:29.080
where it's funny because

01:25:29.080 --> 01:25:32.040
like may I almost feel like I caught the

01:25:32.040 --> 01:25:35.080
the last end of that career yeah I'm

01:25:35.080 --> 01:25:36.920
just old enough to just get that last

01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:40.080
end of that was what was

01:25:40.080 --> 01:25:42.159
important but it's interesting because

01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:45.000
even my mom and my dad I noticed my like

01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:46.840
my dad was a teacher for 20 years he

01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:51.440
quit that and became a contractor like

01:25:51.440 --> 01:25:54.320
it was happening to them yeah yeah my

01:25:54.320 --> 01:25:56.960
mom you know she worked in my

01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:59.560
grandparents travel agency for years

01:25:59.560 --> 01:26:03.199
stopped that you know happened

01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:05.520
whatever and she's she's doing that

01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:07.760
right now you know she's she doesn't she

01:26:07.760 --> 01:26:09.000
know she's got the house she's like I

01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:11.480
don't know what I want to do I wan to so

01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:14.719
yeah that makes sense

01:26:14.719 --> 01:26:18.400
yeah it's almost like a you focus like

01:26:18.400 --> 01:26:20.040
it seems to me what you're saying is

01:26:20.040 --> 01:26:23.080
like focus on like your like the life

01:26:23.080 --> 01:26:25.679
style maybe yeah

01:26:25.679 --> 01:26:29.040
yeah yeah and you make choices and a lot

01:26:29.040 --> 01:26:31.440
of the choices you make are choose not

01:26:31.440 --> 01:26:32.719
you don't want to do that these are

01:26:32.719 --> 01:26:34.760
still choices and they're not easy and

01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:38.400
so just just build up that awareness of

01:26:38.400 --> 01:26:42.119
yourself across time um this is this is

01:26:42.119 --> 01:26:45.199
an important uh piece of the next step

01:26:45.199 --> 01:26:47.520
and then when you get older you like

01:26:47.520 --> 01:26:51.239
you'll you'll realize that that is

01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:54.080
constructed but that's okay because you

01:26:54.080 --> 01:26:56.480
that's one way to know yourself rols are

01:26:56.480 --> 01:26:58.119
another way to know yourself the point

01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:00.679
is not to be so attached to them that

01:27:00.679 --> 01:27:04.080
when they dissolve or they become

01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:06.119
transparent that you're not destroyed

01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:09.639
right and then uh yeah

01:27:09.639 --> 01:27:13.159
so okay so that's one thing um that the

01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:15.119
book it this is the I'm still working

01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:20.960
with the lion metaphor um so

01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:25.280
um so I I forgot now how I tied it in

01:27:25.280 --> 01:27:29.000
but I wrote the idea is that at some

01:27:29.000 --> 01:27:32.760
point to notice that what's

01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:35.440
important is

01:27:35.440 --> 01:27:38.320
um the you're trying to identify with

01:27:38.320 --> 01:27:41.480
the wholeness that is the self and the

01:27:41.480 --> 01:27:44.960
role is too small a container for the

01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:49.719
wholeness um the story is too small can

01:27:49.719 --> 01:27:51.639
a by line because it could have been a

01:27:51.639 --> 01:27:53.080
kind of different different story and

01:27:53.080 --> 01:27:59.600
stuff like that um but also in that um

01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:00.800
these are things that are important

01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:04.560
going into the future the near future

01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:08.480
chaos um um so the your identity is at

01:28:08.480 --> 01:28:11.000
stake so understanding that we need to

01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:12.719
start teaching the wholeness of the self

01:28:12.719 --> 01:28:15.320
outside of the identity

01:28:15.320 --> 01:28:17.920
project and not a thing called the whole

01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:22.440
self that we're looking for um and there

01:28:22.440 --> 01:28:25.800
has to be some confidence in the larger

01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:28.560
intelligence of the system despite all

01:28:28.560 --> 01:28:31.520
the evidence to the

01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:35.119
contrary without that you will never

01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:37.920
feel the belonging like so this is I

01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:41.159
heard in your your your lion story like

01:28:41.159 --> 01:28:43.520
somehow this seems like the whole thing

01:28:43.520 --> 01:28:46.480
is just a bad story that the lion lays

01:28:46.480 --> 01:28:49.800
down and it gets eaten by the swamp

01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:52.560
creatures but there's some knowing that

01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:54.679
there's a from a certain perspective

01:28:54.679 --> 01:28:58.800
there's an there's intelligence in this

01:28:58.800 --> 01:29:03.639
and um we're not able to that doesn't

01:29:03.639 --> 01:29:06.280
mean you say oh I like this because it's

01:29:06.280 --> 01:29:10.040
more intelligent the part may be

01:29:10.040 --> 01:29:12.320
be uh

01:29:12.320 --> 01:29:15.600
terminally like terminal cancer but it

01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:19.320
gives you the courage to stay in for the

01:29:19.320 --> 01:29:22.480
long hall because there has to be some

01:29:22.480 --> 01:29:24.440
intelligence in the system so to ask is

01:29:24.440 --> 01:29:27.719
neuro Divergence this seems like there's

01:29:27.719 --> 01:29:31.199
some intelligence in the system um

01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:32.639
magical thinking you're going to see a

01:29:32.639 --> 01:29:33.960
lot of magical thinking in

01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:36.000
conspiratorial system well we've been

01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:38.199
magical thinkers for a long time it got

01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:42.360
us out of the Stone Age this has got to

01:29:42.360 --> 01:29:44.600
be some intelligence in these

01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:46.199
nonrational

01:29:46.199 --> 01:29:51.760
transrational irrational systems um so

01:29:51.760 --> 01:29:57.400
the this is also important um to be

01:29:57.400 --> 01:29:59.119
dealing with when we're looking at

01:29:59.119 --> 01:30:01.360
latency in the system and the in the new

01:30:01.360 --> 01:30:04.920
human does that make sense like if we're

01:30:04.920 --> 01:30:08.159
going to be teachers at some

01:30:08.159 --> 01:30:10.440
point

01:30:10.440 --> 01:30:14.400
um I'll say that the sense of the

01:30:14.400 --> 01:30:18.679
eyes they're looking Beyond is a sense

01:30:18.679 --> 01:30:23.480
of there of an intelligent in

01:30:23.480 --> 01:30:27.040
here that may not yet

01:30:27.040 --> 01:30:30.239
know anything or know anything you don't

01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:32.719
know anything yeah but the intelligence

01:30:32.719 --> 01:30:37.000
itself feels activated by intelligence

01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:39.199
beyond what I know that there's a

01:30:39.199 --> 01:30:42.639
sensing in here that that if I didn't

01:30:42.639 --> 01:30:47.119
have um this sense of being part of a

01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:48.560
larger

01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:50.960
intelligence then I wouldn't have my

01:30:50.960 --> 01:30:54.119
eyes I would just be the lion yeah so

01:30:54.119 --> 01:30:56.600
there's Al there's a lot of powerful

01:30:56.600 --> 01:30:59.250
things in here so for example

01:30:59.250 --> 01:31:01.400
[Music]

01:31:01.400 --> 01:31:04.840
um this this this sentence this phrase

01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:07.159
despite the evidence to the contrary so

01:31:07.159 --> 01:31:09.199
like you're talk maybe you're talking to

01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:11.320
me as you're the lion dying or we're

01:31:11.320 --> 01:31:12.920
talking together we're like we're

01:31:12.920 --> 01:31:14.560
sitting here and we're looking at this

01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:18.040
lion dying and and you're saying but the

01:31:18.040 --> 01:31:19.840
eyes can see further I'm like yeah but

01:31:19.840 --> 01:31:21.920
the lion is in a swamp and you're like I

01:31:21.920 --> 01:31:23.560
know and then you say something else

01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:26.440
hopeful and I say yeah but look the the

01:31:26.440 --> 01:31:28.400
maggots are in his mouth and eating his

01:31:28.400 --> 01:31:30.760
eyes and you're like I know it's this

01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:33.600
ability to say not there's a greater

01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:36.119
intelligence because God loves us it's

01:31:36.119 --> 01:31:38.280
like there's a greater intelligence I

01:31:38.280 --> 01:31:41.880
know I'm confident despite the fact

01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:44.639
yes all the EV you don't you don't argue

01:31:44.639 --> 01:31:46.880
with all the evidence this is actually

01:31:46.880 --> 01:31:50.520
what's happening this is this is

01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:53.760
real and

01:31:54.679 --> 01:31:56.960
yet this is there's a greater

01:31:56.960 --> 01:31:58.600
intelligence in it or else you'll just

01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:01.320
be into into denial or Utopia or fantasy

01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:02.760
or something and that's why I liked your

01:32:02.760 --> 01:32:05.480
story because you I'm sure if you had

01:32:05.480 --> 01:32:08.080
asked Dolly 3 or mid journey to do it we

01:32:08.080 --> 01:32:09.800
could make it really disgusting what's

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:13.159
happening to the lion to challenge your

01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:15.840
confidence so we have to say yes yes

01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:18.040
that's that's what I see it's a

01:32:18.040 --> 01:32:21.400
beautiful powerful Pride proudful lion

01:32:21.400 --> 01:32:23.760
and he's in the swamp being eaten by the

01:32:23.760 --> 01:32:27.360
most disgusting things and it stinks yes

01:32:27.360 --> 01:32:29.119
and then she says moral the story

01:32:29.119 --> 01:32:30.960
there's a greater intelligence in the

01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:33.600
system and you say like what what the

01:32:33.600 --> 01:32:39.159
 it's that kind of attitude um that

01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:41.960
that is obviously coming online it's

01:32:41.960 --> 01:32:43.679
coming online in people's visions and

01:32:43.679 --> 01:32:44.880
stuff

01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:47.840
so so this I want to say something

01:32:47.840 --> 01:32:52.520
Bonnie um I just became aware of um

01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:55.880
the How Deeply uh

01:32:55.880 --> 01:33:00.800
Insidious my inner judge is against me

01:33:00.800 --> 01:33:03.280
not to because I'm not a

01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:06.600
lion I can't stand myself because I

01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:10.159
don't have the shape of a lion wow and I

01:33:10.159 --> 01:33:13.560
I pull apart everything I do that I'm

01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:16.760
moving forward with out of this new

01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:19.360
sense of no no no no this is this is

01:33:19.360 --> 01:33:21.800
where there's life this is where this is

01:33:21.800 --> 01:33:23.760
where I'm what I'm supposed to be L

01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:26.400
listening to and then there's the lion

01:33:26.400 --> 01:33:28.639
trainer in me that's whipping me that

01:33:28.639 --> 01:33:30.920
say you

01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:36.040
know take a shape do something

01:33:36.040 --> 01:33:39.480
be something accountable and so there's

01:33:39.480 --> 01:33:41.280
this I mean this is another way of

01:33:41.280 --> 01:33:44.840
looking at this yeah that i' I I've just

01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:47.480
today decided okay I I gotta find out

01:33:47.480 --> 01:33:49.679
who's got the whip because because it's

01:33:49.679 --> 01:33:52.639
not working for me yeah yeah

01:33:52.639 --> 01:33:55.280
yeah that's all in this identity and and

01:33:55.280 --> 01:33:58.400
the pressure to it'll come up different

01:33:58.400 --> 01:34:00.040
ways with different people sometimes

01:34:00.040 --> 01:34:01.639
dramatically opposite some people want

01:34:01.639 --> 01:34:03.719
to be the swamp you know

01:34:03.719 --> 01:34:08.760
and it's they're they're very unique um

01:34:08.760 --> 01:34:11.760
ways for them to come up which is

01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:14.679
why um like it like the story you just

01:34:14.679 --> 01:34:16.440
told is so much richer than the

01:34:16.440 --> 01:34:19.440
archetypal kind of stuff that is just

01:34:19.440 --> 01:34:22.400
culturally uh kind of poor and Lion's

01:34:22.400 --> 01:34:25.040
always beautiful and big or you know and

01:34:25.040 --> 01:34:28.239
this and that um these are these are

01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:30.920
richer types of

01:34:30.920 --> 01:34:35.199
uh Imaging kind of thinking yeah

01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:37.960
AA and what

01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:42.199
about having no identity at all I mean

01:34:42.199 --> 01:34:45.280
that that that there's something like

01:34:45.280 --> 01:34:49.440
this feeling of being a vehicle or

01:34:49.440 --> 01:34:52.520
antenna or something that that the whole

01:34:52.520 --> 01:34:56.400
role is to resonate or

01:34:56.400 --> 01:34:58.239
to to

01:34:58.239 --> 01:35:02.560
sense and and not to get trapped in

01:35:02.560 --> 01:35:04.960
something so so it's it's more like like

01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:06.920
peeling everything that could be

01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:10.159
disturbing gating myself away from the

01:35:10.159 --> 01:35:15.600
way and and the same time tuning in to

01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:19.400
this what maybe we are calling

01:35:19.400 --> 01:35:23.679
intelligence and and also this kind of

01:35:23.679 --> 01:35:27.119
becoming comfortable or confident with

01:35:27.119 --> 01:35:30.719
unpredictable with whatever kind of

01:35:30.719 --> 01:35:32.920
getting rid of is it disgusting or not

01:35:32.920 --> 01:35:36.040
is it good or bad it's just what it is

01:35:36.040 --> 01:35:39.159
and my and this who am I it's just a

01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:42.480
vehicle it's not about

01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:46.960
me it can take different different forms

01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:49.719
but I think there's kind of cor that

01:35:49.719 --> 01:35:51.960
goes in this direction

01:35:51.960 --> 01:35:55.480
so this is in the in the video this is

01:35:55.480 --> 01:35:58.840
the you if you've worked with people at

01:35:58.840 --> 01:36:00.880
different ages for a long time this is

01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:04.280
the common thing you see at the end that

01:36:04.280 --> 01:36:06.760
they use it language it is coming

01:36:06.760 --> 01:36:10.040
through me or I'm a vehicle or it's past

01:36:10.040 --> 01:36:12.679
the authentic self once they they they

01:36:12.679 --> 01:36:16.679
land on this uh there's an

01:36:16.679 --> 01:36:19.600
intelligence um that I want to be

01:36:19.600 --> 01:36:22.199
available to these are words words some

01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:25.000
people say surrender um I don't like

01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:26.719
that word because you can get very

01:36:26.719 --> 01:36:29.199
powerful and feel willful if you if this

01:36:29.199 --> 01:36:31.600
thing coming through you is powerful and

01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:38.520
willful um and um you you

01:36:38.520 --> 01:36:41.719
um you feel yourself as a vehicle for

01:36:41.719 --> 01:36:44.679
this larger Rhythm or

01:36:44.679 --> 01:36:48.639
larger um GNE would say it's a it's a

01:36:48.639 --> 01:36:51.639
larger story but it's I would argue it's

01:36:51.639 --> 01:36:53.880
no longer a story it's something more

01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:59.760
like you're saying it's more open and um

01:36:59.760 --> 01:37:01.600
um it

01:37:01.600 --> 01:37:03.880
um yeah there's different different

01:37:03.880 --> 01:37:05.600
people explain it different way but this

01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:09.520
this this switch to I'm a vehicle um if

01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:12.400
you happen to have a religious language

01:37:12.400 --> 01:37:15.239
in this second person um you would say

01:37:15.239 --> 01:37:17.400
I'm a vehicle of God or God is working

01:37:17.400 --> 01:37:20.159
through me sometimes that canot cannot

01:37:20.159 --> 01:37:23.159
be constrained by religion but it is the

01:37:23.159 --> 01:37:27.320
movement toward Beyond identity um now

01:37:27.320 --> 01:37:30.280
you still have a sense of self um if you

01:37:30.280 --> 01:37:33.159
have no self Beyond identity this is I

01:37:33.159 --> 01:37:35.719
would say a little problematic depending

01:37:35.719 --> 01:37:39.199
on how you define that um but the self

01:37:39.199 --> 01:37:42.239
as a unique

01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:45.440
vehicle um for reasons why you do not

01:37:45.440 --> 01:37:47.840
know you're here you didn't put yourself

01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:50.280
here you didn't make yourself to come

01:37:50.280 --> 01:37:52.760
here um but there is something unique

01:37:52.760 --> 01:37:56.440
about you and um it's part of the larger

01:37:56.440 --> 01:37:58.440
intelligence so this is why it's not a

01:37:58.440 --> 01:38:01.080
no self um it's a

01:38:01.080 --> 01:38:03.840
recognizably meaningful

01:38:03.840 --> 01:38:06.360
self even though we don't know why

01:38:06.360 --> 01:38:08.280
you're you're here I don't know why I'm

01:38:08.280 --> 01:38:09.620
here I I

01:38:09.620 --> 01:38:10.960
[Music]

01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:15.560
I have no clue but I'm curious and I

01:38:15.560 --> 01:38:20.040
want to try to be

01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:23.199
coherent certainly try not to put

01:38:23.199 --> 01:38:26.000
obstacles in the way of what

01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:29.280
is naturally

01:38:29.280 --> 01:38:32.199
arising I want something like that you

01:38:32.199 --> 01:38:33.719
probably can say it better there's many

01:38:33.719 --> 01:38:34.800
different ways to say it but I'm

01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:36.760
agreeing with you there is this you'll

01:38:36.760 --> 01:38:39.940
hear people use these terms vehicle

01:38:39.940 --> 01:38:41.040
[Music]

01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:45.520
or but I'm I'm asking myself you saying

01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:49.719
it comes later in life and I have the

01:38:49.719 --> 01:38:52.199
feeling that it this in my life for a

01:38:52.199 --> 01:38:55.280
long time already and I'm not that old

01:38:55.280 --> 01:38:58.440
and I'm asking if this kind of notion of

01:38:58.440 --> 01:39:00.880
it comes later or in the end it's also

01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:03.560
one that we should question because I

01:39:03.560 --> 01:39:05.840
have a feeling it's it's already there a

01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:10.080
lot of my friends I mean an artist and

01:39:10.080 --> 01:39:12.320
improvisers and so on there's there's

01:39:12.320 --> 01:39:15.880
plenty of Aras that are so

01:39:15.880 --> 01:39:17.639
fluid

01:39:17.639 --> 01:39:21.440
in and and multi- disciplinary and

01:39:21.440 --> 01:39:24.080
multimodal and so on that that it starts

01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:27.880
to be kind of obvious normal

01:39:27.880 --> 01:39:31.320
thing so yeah so it's Laten in the

01:39:31.320 --> 01:39:33.639
system so you'll see it at earlier and

01:39:33.639 --> 01:39:38.159
earlier Ages which is why uh my problem

01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:40.880
with developmental stage theory is they

01:39:40.880 --> 01:39:44.320
only see they'll see young people who

01:39:44.320 --> 01:39:46.800
are at what are traditionally later

01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:50.719
stages is deviant not as the something

01:39:50.719 --> 01:39:54.400
new structure being much more latent um

01:39:54.400 --> 01:39:57.920
in general uh and this is why also you

01:39:57.920 --> 01:40:00.239
have to be careful because many people

01:40:00.239 --> 01:40:02.639
haven't even individuated from their

01:40:02.639 --> 01:40:06.560
parents um and this this I learned the

01:40:06.560 --> 01:40:09.719
hard way also teaching because you'd get

01:40:09.719 --> 01:40:12.040
a lot of people who did a lot of cool

01:40:12.040 --> 01:40:15.360
spiritual um uh

01:40:15.360 --> 01:40:17.480
work but they really were not

01:40:17.480 --> 01:40:20.480
individuated from their parents yet so

01:40:20.480 --> 01:40:23.080
um it's all across you know different

01:40:23.080 --> 01:40:28.239
people all mangled up um but um yeah I'm

01:40:28.239 --> 01:40:30.639
not surprised that you were at a very

01:40:30.639 --> 01:40:32.880
young age

01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:34.440
um

01:40:34.440 --> 01:40:38.000
um already were somewhere where most

01:40:38.000 --> 01:40:41.119
people takes takes a longer process um

01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:44.239
and a lot of that is also you know the

01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:47.159
male year that you're in um younger

01:40:47.159 --> 01:40:49.119
people increasingly have a perspective

01:40:49.119 --> 01:40:51.760
on their parents much more younger

01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:54.199
than the parents even have on themselves

01:40:54.199 --> 01:40:58.040
this is quite uh common to be happening

01:40:58.040 --> 01:40:59.239
and they don't know what to do with it

01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:00.520
because there's no support structure

01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:02.639
they go to school and they're taught

01:41:02.639 --> 01:41:04.040
that they're supposed you know they're

01:41:04.040 --> 01:41:05.679
taught as if they're in this other kind

01:41:05.679 --> 01:41:06.960
of

01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:11.800
category but um yeah

01:41:11.800 --> 01:41:15.400
um it's just it's usually happens later

01:41:15.400 --> 01:41:17.280
in life

01:41:17.280 --> 01:41:19.840
um and

01:41:19.840 --> 01:41:21.800
um

01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:24.760
really the full switch to that usually

01:41:24.760 --> 01:41:27.040
some many people feel that often during

01:41:27.040 --> 01:41:29.320
Peak experiences like in their Middle

01:41:29.320 --> 01:41:32.480
Ages or something um but to have only

01:41:32.480 --> 01:41:35.800
been that for a long time it's much more

01:41:35.800 --> 01:41:37.599
native to your

01:41:37.599 --> 01:41:41.760
experience um so yeah that's

01:41:41.760 --> 01:41:44.639
that's

01:41:44.639 --> 01:41:49.400
um most people when like uh I think Zach

01:41:49.400 --> 01:41:51.000
Stein has done a little bit of research

01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:54.199
on this and that most people

01:41:54.199 --> 01:41:58.239
that um they may be very very diverse

01:41:58.239 --> 01:42:02.040
ones is z monk one's a service work but

01:42:02.040 --> 01:42:03.920
they seem to

01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:07.520
be um enlightened in some way

01:42:07.520 --> 01:42:11.560
or advanced in some way whoever whatever

01:42:11.560 --> 01:42:13.679
um they've had experiences before the

01:42:13.679 --> 01:42:17.599
age of seven that usually

01:42:17.599 --> 01:42:19.760
only

01:42:19.760 --> 01:42:24.719
elderly um wise people come to and

01:42:24.719 --> 01:42:27.159
there's a huge difference between coming

01:42:27.159 --> 01:42:30.920
to one of these things o across the

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:35.199
lifespan and um have being gifted

01:42:35.199 --> 01:42:37.480
burdened that's one who are gifted

01:42:37.480 --> 01:42:42.400
burdened with it from an early age um so

01:42:42.400 --> 01:42:44.239
but this is what I call latency in the

01:42:44.239 --> 01:42:45.960
system seven year olds what are they up

01:42:45.960 --> 01:42:49.080
to neural divergency what what is this

01:42:49.080 --> 01:42:52.400
you know so

01:42:52.400 --> 01:42:54.119
but we don't have any structures to

01:42:54.119 --> 01:42:56.639
support

01:42:57.560 --> 01:43:01.800
that for very few I would

01:43:03.320 --> 01:43:07.840
say and uh not one more question because

01:43:07.840 --> 01:43:10.960
you mentioned Zak Stein and he is

01:43:10.960 --> 01:43:12.239
talking about

01:43:12.239 --> 01:43:15.040
insolent going in the dep and working in

01:43:15.040 --> 01:43:16.760
the real and Enlightenment as a

01:43:16.760 --> 01:43:18.639
something that belongs together and

01:43:18.639 --> 01:43:21.119
that's what we had in the beginning

01:43:21.119 --> 01:43:23.560
isn't it also important

01:43:23.560 --> 01:43:26.119
component that that those people we are

01:43:26.119 --> 01:43:28.520
talking about has both direction that

01:43:28.520 --> 01:43:31.480
they are kind of having balance or

01:43:31.480 --> 01:43:33.520
they're growing in both

01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:37.840
Direction yes it's a very big question

01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:41.199
it's a it's

01:43:41.239 --> 01:43:44.520
a so I I I will say what I'm going to

01:43:44.520 --> 01:43:46.239
say sometimes I think Zach and I are

01:43:46.239 --> 01:43:48.800
saying some same thing but then we

01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:51.440
always argue sometimes

01:43:51.440 --> 01:43:56.360
very vehemently so

01:43:56.360 --> 01:44:01.440
um so this this this axis of vertical

01:44:01.440 --> 01:44:05.639
growth when people say vertical they

01:44:05.639 --> 01:44:07.280
mean

01:44:07.280 --> 01:44:10.199
up Transcendence

01:44:10.199 --> 01:44:12.960
right and I say that's like saying

01:44:12.960 --> 01:44:16.080
horizontal means left I think vertical

01:44:16.080 --> 01:44:20.679
growth is has to be like this because

01:44:20.679 --> 01:44:23.199
the deeper you go the more transparent

01:44:23.199 --> 01:44:25.080
the lower structures are the higher

01:44:25.080 --> 01:44:27.920
realization you have they're the same

01:44:27.920 --> 01:44:30.440
thing um sometimes you can have a higher

01:44:30.440 --> 01:44:32.480
realization and then the deeper

01:44:32.480 --> 01:44:34.480
structures become

01:44:34.480 --> 01:44:38.880
transparent so I would say

01:44:38.880 --> 01:44:41.080
that if they're happening

01:44:41.080 --> 01:44:44.199
one-dimensionally then there's something

01:44:44.199 --> 01:44:47.119
um there's there's something distorted

01:44:47.119 --> 01:44:51.480
about it um uh so uh

01:44:51.480 --> 01:44:54.280
yeah

01:44:54.280 --> 01:44:57.199
so I would just make that

01:44:57.199 --> 01:44:59.960
one important maybe it's just a hair

01:44:59.960 --> 01:45:01.960
splitting distinction that vertical to

01:45:01.960 --> 01:45:05.560
me means the vertical axis the same way

01:45:05.560 --> 01:45:08.719
horizontal doesn't mean to the left and

01:45:08.719 --> 01:45:11.639
they tend to say vertical means up and

01:45:11.639 --> 01:45:14.760
then insulant means down but vertical

01:45:14.760 --> 01:45:21.679
means to me this whole line and um

01:45:21.679 --> 01:45:23.760
what I do is I emphasize the depth

01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:26.040
Dimension because I think it's under

01:45:26.040 --> 01:45:30.080
represented and I think um most of the

01:45:30.080 --> 01:45:33.800
people in the space emphasize uh the

01:45:33.800 --> 01:45:36.800
vertical the up Dimension and then I

01:45:36.800 --> 01:45:40.480
would argue about what you know we have

01:45:40.480 --> 01:45:43.239
to get a sense of what they're actually

01:45:43.239 --> 01:45:47.400
talking about um what is to them the

01:45:47.400 --> 01:45:50.040
vertical Dimension this this I would

01:45:50.040 --> 01:45:52.040
love to have more as an open

01:45:52.040 --> 01:45:54.520
conversation but it's very very

01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:57.159
difficult because people's identities

01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:00.440
are are are tied up into it

01:46:00.440 --> 01:46:03.560
um but yes there's something about the

01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:08.320
vertical axis that

01:46:08.400 --> 01:46:11.000
um the so the horizontal axis is

01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:13.400
developing and the vertical axis has

01:46:13.400 --> 01:46:15.719
this leap kind of thing like every once

01:46:15.719 --> 01:46:17.400
in a while generation happens and all of

01:46:17.400 --> 01:46:18.800
a

01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:22.080
sudden there a of the game with respect

01:46:22.080 --> 01:46:24.760
to previous generations we don't know

01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:26.840
how it happens but that's what I call

01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.800
latency in the system so obviously all

01:46:29.800 --> 01:46:32.080
this technological all this stuff is

01:46:32.080 --> 01:46:33.599
already in the system and you could

01:46:33.599 --> 01:46:36.199
parse it out into these techn future

01:46:36.199 --> 01:46:38.440
things and what I want to look at is

01:46:38.440 --> 01:46:40.679
what is latent in the

01:46:40.679 --> 01:46:43.440
system because that's what I think

01:46:43.440 --> 01:46:47.400
evolutionary change comes

01:46:49.400 --> 01:46:52.040
from

01:46:52.040 --> 01:46:53.520
Bonnie on

01:46:53.520 --> 01:46:57.800
this relationship with the identity

01:46:57.800 --> 01:47:00.320
project where would

01:47:00.320 --> 01:47:04.679
you put the voluntary

01:47:04.679 --> 01:47:09.080
obligation or how did how does that fit

01:47:09.080 --> 01:47:10.320
in

01:47:10.320 --> 01:47:12.199
your

01:47:12.199 --> 01:47:14.599
concept well it could be a

01:47:14.599 --> 01:47:18.440
trap I think I think that it doesn't map

01:47:18.440 --> 01:47:20.800
it could it could it should voluntary

01:47:20.800 --> 01:47:22.840
obligations are different different

01:47:22.840 --> 01:47:25.679
identity projects

01:47:25.679 --> 01:47:28.080
okay um we're going to talk about Choice

01:47:28.080 --> 01:47:31.719
a little later on um but um you can make

01:47:31.719 --> 01:47:36.080
a voluntary obligation to rooll and then

01:47:36.080 --> 01:47:40.440
um it can become a identity trap right

01:47:40.440 --> 01:47:43.679
you can make an inv voluntary obligation

01:47:43.679 --> 01:47:47.800
um to something across the lifespan so

01:47:47.800 --> 01:47:49.599
this can change this can change but I'm

01:47:49.599 --> 01:47:51.480
going to make a a voluntary obligation

01:47:51.480 --> 01:47:54.040
to this now if you listen carefully and

01:47:54.040 --> 01:47:55.400
if I've been

01:47:55.400 --> 01:47:59.080
good uh I almost always say voluntary

01:47:59.080 --> 01:48:00.920
obligations have to be taken with

01:48:00.920 --> 01:48:02.560
experimental

01:48:02.560 --> 01:48:06.960
attitude this is why is very important

01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:09.599
to voluntary obligate to Something in an

01:48:09.599 --> 01:48:11.119
experimental

01:48:11.119 --> 01:48:13.520
attitude do I mean it's not a

01:48:13.520 --> 01:48:16.320
contradiction because as you change

01:48:16.320 --> 01:48:17.760
you'll learn something but if you

01:48:17.760 --> 01:48:19.840
haven't hadn't voluntarily obligated you

01:48:19.840 --> 01:48:21.119
would know never learned it because the

01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:23.280
constraints not hard

01:48:23.280 --> 01:48:27.239
enough so yes so these things don't map

01:48:27.239 --> 01:48:30.400
on but it's a very interesting

01:48:30.400 --> 01:48:33.719
question so you know if you take on a

01:48:33.719 --> 01:48:36.159
voluntary obligation to be a vehicle of

01:48:36.159 --> 01:48:39.760
what is um this this will let you know

01:48:39.760 --> 01:48:43.080
if your idea of being the vehicle is

01:48:43.080 --> 01:48:44.840
correct or not if you have an

01:48:44.840 --> 01:48:47.000
experimental

01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:49.679
attitude so it is important to take

01:48:49.679 --> 01:48:50.840
voluntary

01:48:50.840 --> 01:48:53.239
obligations they will but you have to

01:48:53.239 --> 01:48:55.000
have an experimental attitude and that

01:48:55.000 --> 01:48:57.360
doesn't mean that they're not obligatory

01:48:57.360 --> 01:48:59.480
you have to you have to go over the

01:48:59.480 --> 01:49:01.280
first hump and the second hump and the

01:49:01.280 --> 01:49:03.199
third hump maybe the fourth you can't

01:49:03.199 --> 01:49:06.560
just give up because it's hard

01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:08.599
um

01:49:08.599 --> 01:49:12.040
so yeah so that's

01:49:12.040 --> 01:49:14.639
another complexity there but I think you

01:49:14.639 --> 01:49:16.239
can understand how it works and it and

01:49:16.239 --> 01:49:18.480
it's a good question because you can see

01:49:18.480 --> 01:49:22.599
the Trap uh they seem at first uh like

01:49:22.599 --> 01:49:24.520
antinomies but

01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:27.360
um if I've been good it's always with

01:49:27.360 --> 01:49:31.719
this notion of experimental

01:49:32.280 --> 01:49:35.159
attitude having the right combination

01:49:35.159 --> 01:49:37.280
actually gets you down the road really

01:49:37.280 --> 01:49:41.000
far uh with um but you have to learn

01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:43.280
from your mistakes but holding on too

01:49:43.280 --> 01:49:47.119
long is is is

01:49:49.119 --> 01:49:52.119
silly

01:50:04.440 --> 01:50:06.840
and I think the and just it's a very

01:50:06.840 --> 01:50:09.679
interesting question and to and to also

01:50:09.679 --> 01:50:12.199
understand the identity

01:50:12.199 --> 01:50:14.920
project as a series of obligations and

01:50:14.920 --> 01:50:18.040
then just to make them voluntary to to

01:50:18.040 --> 01:50:19.800
say well this is how I feel you know

01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.520
this is who I am I'm willing to die in

01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:24.880
this hill I choose which means you can

01:50:24.880 --> 01:50:27.440
choose otherwise so all those words a

01:50:27.440 --> 01:50:29.560
voluntary obligation experimental

01:50:29.560 --> 01:50:31.760
attitude they're all they have to be in

01:50:31.760 --> 01:50:34.360
the mix

01:50:41.360 --> 01:50:44.880
together I was appreciating

01:50:44.880 --> 01:50:49.040
th's uh repetition of the word

01:50:49.040 --> 01:50:51.320
disintegration

01:50:51.320 --> 01:50:54.159
and

01:50:54.920 --> 01:50:59.480
that that way I mean I think

01:50:59.480 --> 01:51:04.119
the the most

01:51:04.239 --> 01:51:07.040
um in in many ways the most intense

01:51:07.040 --> 01:51:10.400
voluntary obligation I have is being

01:51:10.400 --> 01:51:12.719
married and

01:51:12.719 --> 01:51:14.280
watching

01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:17.520
the the ways in which that gets rigid

01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:18.960
and the ways in

01:51:18.960 --> 01:51:20.719
which

01:51:20.719 --> 01:51:23.040
something else can happen that's not so

01:51:23.040 --> 01:51:24.760
rigid and

01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:27.119
the the

01:51:27.119 --> 01:51:32.840
um different configurations of trust and

01:51:32.840 --> 01:51:36.360
uh all of that like that

01:51:36.360 --> 01:51:41.800
just over a span of you know 35 years

01:51:41.800 --> 01:51:43.440
takes a lot of different

01:51:43.440 --> 01:51:47.560
forms um and there is a lot of

01:51:47.560 --> 01:51:51.159
disintegration and disintegration both

01:51:51.159 --> 01:51:54.719
um in that

01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:10.040
process and I want to hear from David

01:52:10.040 --> 01:52:13.000
because I can feel

01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:17.360
the something going on over

01:52:18.880 --> 01:52:21.880
there

01:52:23.599 --> 01:52:25.840
I

01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:30.840
did oh it's already

01:52:34.560 --> 01:52:37.520
unmuted you know what I'm what I'm

01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:42.000
reflecting on is this notion

01:52:42.000 --> 01:52:45.320
that when I say something to somebody

01:52:45.320 --> 01:52:47.440
when I make a

01:52:47.440 --> 01:52:51.639
promise I live by honoring my

01:52:51.639 --> 01:52:55.159
word but I found

01:52:55.159 --> 01:52:59.639
over a long life that sometimes promises

01:52:59.639 --> 01:53:04.239
I made yesterday don't work

01:53:04.239 --> 01:53:07.239
today even though I said I promised for

01:53:07.239 --> 01:53:09.840
a long

01:53:10.360 --> 01:53:14.760
time so what about promises I tell

01:53:14.760 --> 01:53:18.119
myself from

01:53:18.520 --> 01:53:21.119
yesterday then I look out and the world

01:53:21.119 --> 01:53:24.440
is disintegrating in front of my eyes do

01:53:24.440 --> 01:53:29.040
I still promise to you know pay my

01:53:29.040 --> 01:53:31.199
taxes you know I

01:53:31.199 --> 01:53:34.199
mean

01:53:36.400 --> 01:53:39.719
so and I think that's what Bonnie just

01:53:39.719 --> 01:53:42.599
indicated about voluntary or about

01:53:42.599 --> 01:53:45.119
choice that we're going to be looking

01:53:45.119 --> 01:53:48.760
at how does

01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:51.760
choice

01:53:54.880 --> 01:53:58.520
unfold as we develop and I love the word

01:53:58.520 --> 01:54:03.360
she used the load Stone of identity the

01:54:03.360 --> 01:54:05.920
load

01:54:11.239 --> 01:54:17.000
Stone and be more prepared to do the

01:54:17.000 --> 01:54:21.639
real of life

01:54:21.639 --> 01:54:25.040
so that's one package Sandra the other

01:54:25.040 --> 01:54:28.840
package is I'm most interested in the

01:54:28.840 --> 01:54:32.639
distinction between the we and the

01:54:32.639 --> 01:54:37.320
us as we become new

01:54:37.560 --> 01:54:41.320
humans I heard Bonnie say the is we

01:54:41.320 --> 01:54:43.520
have to help

01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:46.400
again well for me it's not the is

01:54:46.400 --> 01:54:47.960
we have to help

01:54:47.960 --> 01:54:51.679
again for me is is thank

01:54:51.679 --> 01:54:55.719
God I get to help

01:54:55.760 --> 01:54:59.760
again even if it's digging a

01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:03.880
hole or building a

01:55:07.599 --> 01:55:11.760
barn because as Bonnie knows as many of

01:55:11.760 --> 01:55:14.840
you know I love to welcome the stranger

01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:16.800
and the

01:55:16.800 --> 01:55:21.599
other and get some work done

01:55:21.719 --> 01:55:24.880
the as Phoebe said before this call the

01:55:24.880 --> 01:55:28.760
shared project we

01:55:37.159 --> 01:55:40.560
on and it's very real for me sitting

01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:42.000
here

01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:45.079
Sandra the chills I've had in the last

01:55:45.079 --> 01:55:49.360
two hours the trembling I've experienced

01:55:49.360 --> 01:55:52.320
that that's the that's the juice of the

01:55:52.320 --> 01:55:56.199
shared project for me that

01:55:57.239 --> 01:56:02.280
we are engaged in embedded

01:56:02.280 --> 01:56:05.280
in so that's a a bit of what's going on

01:56:05.280 --> 01:56:09.480
S thank you for your

01:56:18.520 --> 01:56:21.520
interest

01:56:23.480 --> 01:56:27.719
really appreciate you David I'll say

01:56:40.520 --> 01:56:42.599
that love the rhythm of our

01:56:42.599 --> 01:56:45.760
conversations you know they they they

01:56:45.760 --> 01:56:49.520
know of where they are at they like my

01:56:49.520 --> 01:56:51.840
dogs they know exactly how long two

01:56:51.840 --> 01:56:53.159
hours

01:56:53.159 --> 01:56:54.960
feels

01:56:54.960 --> 01:56:59.920
um so I I think this is a extremely good

01:56:59.920 --> 01:57:05.280
one of the better best first uh first

01:57:05.280 --> 01:57:08.960
sessions of a module um there's a lot

01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:13.760
going on here and um we'll look at uh

01:57:13.760 --> 01:57:15.239
probably try to take a look at the

01:57:15.239 --> 01:57:17.760
future we'll start with uh some of the

01:57:17.760 --> 01:57:19.520
ideation out there in terms of

01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:21.800
technological systems get that out of

01:57:21.800 --> 01:57:26.440
our our system um and uh see if we can

01:57:26.440 --> 01:57:28.840
do what they're doing but go orthogonal

01:57:28.840 --> 01:57:32.760
right orthogonal to um the momentum that

01:57:32.760 --> 01:57:35.239
seems to be be there already I think we

01:57:35.239 --> 01:57:37.840
did a great job on the identity uh

01:57:37.840 --> 01:57:40.960
project oh we might work on the the self

01:57:40.960 --> 01:57:42.560
in the context of the collective

01:57:42.560 --> 01:57:44.440
tomorrow I'll just finish that off next

01:57:44.440 --> 01:57:48.880
time um but yeah we we did a you all did

01:57:48.880 --> 01:57:51.840
a great job job on really stressing out

01:57:51.840 --> 01:57:54.920
like the Deep deeper points in the the

01:57:54.920 --> 01:57:57.480
uh identity across the lifespan and the

01:57:57.480 --> 01:57:59.679
things it points to so thank you very

01:57:59.679 --> 01:58:02.480
much for your contribution and I look

01:58:02.480 --> 01:58:05.360
forward to uh five more sessions we're

01:58:05.360 --> 01:58:08.239
gonna have like a uh yeah I'll do it I

01:58:08.239 --> 01:58:10.760
I'll download it today and worse comes

01:58:10.760 --> 01:58:13.599
to worse upload it tomorrow uh depending

01:58:13.599 --> 01:58:15.800
upon how my day goes but yeah you'll

01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:18.320
have it tomorrow thank you all so very

01:58:18.320 --> 01:58:20.320
much

01:58:20.320 --> 01:58:22.000
enjoy your

01:58:22.000 --> 01:58:25.000
day



## Cohort 2

00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:12.679
okay welcome welcome

00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:19.320
welcome where's mine oh

00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:23.680
okay here we are getting close to let's

00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:26.400
see getting close to the end of this

00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:31.960
year's we got two three more

00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.160
and then we're done it'll be a

00:00:36.160 --> 00:00:39.360
wrap we have new stuff coming next

00:00:39.360 --> 00:00:42.680
year did you see the new logo did you

00:00:42.680 --> 00:00:46.320
see the new logo this a new

00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.879
logo see still has the

00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:56.559
bubbles um yes so I've been writing

00:00:56.559 --> 00:00:59.160
about that okay but we're still here

00:00:59.160 --> 00:01:02.760
we're not there yet yet and um let's

00:01:02.760 --> 00:01:06.840
open up the conversation uh maybe some

00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:12.080
of you who um weren't here uh last time

00:01:12.080 --> 00:01:14.439
but saw the video might have some

00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.360
questions or comments it was a really

00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:18.520
cool session last

00:01:18.520 --> 00:01:22.000
time um or if you holding something from

00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.880
last time or just want to open up some

00:01:25.880 --> 00:01:27.720
conversation around this topic I do have

00:01:27.720 --> 00:01:28.840
a short

00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:32.119
presentation um but it's very very short

00:01:32.119 --> 00:01:35.280
and it's just to go over some of the

00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.200
stuff

00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.880
um I did watch the video and I'm so

00:01:41.880 --> 00:01:44.640
sorry I missed the

00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.520
session and I also have to confess I

00:01:47.520 --> 00:01:50.040
think somewhere in a piece you wrote

00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.159
about why we need a school like this you

00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:58.799
mentioned the power of tremulus

00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:00.399
effect

00:02:00.399 --> 00:02:03.920
and I just want to say I'm feeling them

00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:10.160
big time um as this kind of winds

00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:13.000
towards the end of 2023 and I'm looking

00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.519
forward to 2024

00:02:15.519 --> 00:02:19.239
but your peace on wisdom and the

00:02:19.239 --> 00:02:21.120
conversation with

00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.959
Alexander and the last session that I

00:02:23.959 --> 00:02:28.480
watched the recording major tremulous

00:02:28.480 --> 00:02:32.480
effects that they're going towards awe

00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:36.599
rather than dread so I do want to say

00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.280
that you know make that distinction but

00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.800
it's not easy to navigate

00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:48.360
in on the ground you know with

00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.800
conversations around the dinner table

00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:57.440
whatever um and next week I have

00:02:57.440 --> 00:03:00.400
three warm data guests that are coming

00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.159
to visit the village and I feel this

00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:06.080
sort of trepidation of this online

00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.959
versus in real life kind of

00:03:08.959 --> 00:03:14.080
thing and I just wondered if you could

00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:15.480
in

00:03:15.480 --> 00:03:20.840
this adventure of individuation at 65

00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.560
you know um with this kind of cyber

00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.080
foraging all mixed

00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:30.959
in I do feel this chaos mosis you know

00:03:30.959 --> 00:03:33.879
that I don't seem to

00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:38.239
be I'm oscillating you know

00:03:38.239 --> 00:03:41.239
greatly um I take some comfort in the

00:03:41.239 --> 00:03:44.000
certainty of Tides because I live next

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.480
to the ocean and that happens twice a

00:03:46.480 --> 00:03:49.200
day so it's going up it's coming down

00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:51.200
it's going up it's coming

00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:56.280
down and that rhythm is where I find

00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:00.640
some homeostasis if you will

00:04:00.640 --> 00:04:04.319
um but I also wonder uh I came across

00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:08.560
this terminology of cosmic

00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.680
artisons and I was wondering if you had

00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:16.320
any thoughts that come up around that

00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.680
description because I'm sort of liking

00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.880
it but I don't want it to be kind of

00:04:21.880 --> 00:04:27.680
flooding in a sort of new AG kind of way

00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.560
either yeah just a couple of comments

00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.039
you know um I have my timestamps I feed

00:04:35.039 --> 00:04:37.400
the animals twice a day you know every

00:04:37.400 --> 00:04:40.080
morning every afternoon every morning

00:04:40.080 --> 00:04:42.440
every afternoon and I feel the same way

00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:44.639
like the way you describe the tides like

00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.160
because everything else it's

00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.919
so you know as I use that term Alexander

00:04:51.919 --> 00:04:56.280
B B hated Eternal ongoingness everything

00:04:56.280 --> 00:05:01.400
else is just ongoingness you know um

00:05:01.400 --> 00:05:04.400
um

00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.240
uh yeah you know next year we're going

00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.800
to do a lot at least the first six

00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.120
months we're going to do a lot of lyric

00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.560
culture which will be more like culture

00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:23.560
and art

00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:26.080
and poetry

00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:30.240
maybe um attention

00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:31.479
how to

00:05:31.479 --> 00:05:34.479
attend

00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:43.400
um yeah and and I think that it's a

00:05:43.840 --> 00:05:46.880
little both challenging

00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:49.880
and

00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:54.919
um I don't know I feel like it comes

00:05:54.919 --> 00:05:57.120
with a sense of risk or something you

00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.759
know um

00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.639
uh so I mean we're going to be doing a

00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:06.199
lot of other things I've got some new

00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:11.199
offerings coming up but

00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:15.440
um yeah there's a lot of people that

00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:17.759
have been saying you know like Rich

00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:20.639
blendell say you know it's you gotta get

00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:22.960
the artists on board so lyric culture is

00:06:22.960 --> 00:06:25.840
about two things it's about training

00:06:25.840 --> 00:06:28.199
your attention so you see

00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.400
particulars and

00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.360
um different orientation toward language

00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.599
I would say you know

00:06:37.599 --> 00:06:42.880
so Cosmic Artisan that sounds sounds

00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:45.880
correct

00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.199
um yeah but it is kind of new Agy

00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:53.479
but

00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:58.199
it say it three times

00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:00.879
fast

00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.960
well actually it's it it also hit me

00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:06.000
because I I have to do this project

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.240
around my daughter's wedding because I

00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.599
make books

00:07:10.599 --> 00:07:14.879
um and uh I've had a lot of difficult

00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.560
going into it because it's like what is

00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.199
love you know

00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.560
in everything that we're exploring and

00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.000
it's so hijacked I

00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.560
mean uh this woman uh even uh

00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:35.479
elut analyzing the fascist cocktail said

00:07:35.479 --> 00:07:38.319
that the four emotions that were

00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.400
combined and present were

00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:46.280
fear disgust resentment and

00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:52.720
love and uh you know I I dug a little

00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.960
deeper and and it's like love is this

00:07:55.960 --> 00:07:59.960
sort of you know power that can be

00:07:59.960 --> 00:08:02.159
be so

00:08:02.159 --> 00:08:08.199
easily mixed with these other

00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:12.520
vectors that and without it it doesn't

00:08:12.520 --> 00:08:16.080
mobilize you know that then if we bring

00:08:16.080 --> 00:08:20.319
it to intimate lives it seems to me that

00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:25.159
you know lovers as a kind of liken

00:08:25.159 --> 00:08:27.759
formation um where the

00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.319
alliance absolutely Ely relies on the

00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.120
absolute difference and the the

00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.159
alliance

00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.399
that I think

00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:43.880
could Venture into very hostile

00:08:43.880 --> 00:08:47.399
territory because of that

00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.399
Alliance and yet that's not how we're

00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:55.800
seeing love manifest you know in in

00:08:55.800 --> 00:08:59.399
terms of the ideations around it the

00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:03.640
desire of the fantasies never mind the

00:09:03.640 --> 00:09:06.000
commodification um of it I mean all you

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.519
have to do is turn on pop radio and it's

00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:09.519
like

00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.360
brainwashing

00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.040
so you know um I know you haven't really

00:09:16.040 --> 00:09:17.200
gone

00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:22.480
there but I think not going there in the

00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.839
individuation um

00:09:25.839 --> 00:09:29.680
somehow could miss you know the

00:09:29.680 --> 00:09:34.680
embodiment the silence the skinship the

00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:39.440
um the the I mean I see in the the

00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.959
wisdom you you spoke about the longevity

00:09:42.959 --> 00:09:44.279
and the

00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:47.760
effort and you know and I I'm going to

00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:50.760
grab pointers from that in order to go

00:09:50.760 --> 00:09:54.360
into this work um but I was wondering if

00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.440
that's somehow in the individuation

00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.240
module going to make

00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.680
itself felt yeah so I mean you're

00:10:03.680 --> 00:10:07.360
talking about love in terms of like

00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.079
marriage you know love could be Cosmic

00:10:10.079 --> 00:10:12.560
Love could you know but in ter one one

00:10:12.560 --> 00:10:14.399
of the things in terms of

00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.399
individuation is that

00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:21.120
um when people um start living together

00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:22.920
when a man and a woman start living

00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:26.120
together then these archetypes these

00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.839
family archetypes uh rear their heads

00:10:28.839 --> 00:10:33.200
again again so um I remember first time

00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.000
was just first summer I was

00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.120
living in a sublet in C Berkeley

00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:39.920
California with my

00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:44.639
boyfriend and um and I started like

00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:46.399
getting up in the morning and making the

00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:51.240
bed and I'm like because my M because we

00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.320
were playing family you know like it was

00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.160
like we were playing family and I

00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:58.120
started like watching myself become my

00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:02.360
mother and it's like yuck like this it

00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:06.440
just it just overtook me you know and so

00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.240
um so you can individuate pretty well

00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:10.920
you know and you go to college and this

00:11:10.920 --> 00:11:12.480
and the but but then when you start

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.639
playing family again you search for

00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.600
roles and roles and behaviors right and

00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.839
um uh so they so but now you're the

00:11:24.839 --> 00:11:26.600
parent right so you were the child and

00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:27.959
so these things

00:11:27.959 --> 00:11:31.440
can they can seep

00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.440
into um relationships like that now for

00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:36.000
some people it's comfortable and that's

00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.000
cool you know if you're lucky maybe it's

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.240
just comfortable and you have a

00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.639
traditional marriage and but these

00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.959
things are breaking down so it it it

00:11:45.959 --> 00:11:47.959
there's a lot of tension and resistance

00:11:47.959 --> 00:11:51.279
when you feel the problem is that you

00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.480
usually blame the other person but it's

00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.160
something that's happening incy

00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:59.720
psychically um no one's no one asked me

00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:04.000
to get up and and make the bed uh but if

00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.600
you don't understand it intrac

00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:09.760
psychically um then you you tend to

00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:12.279
blame the other person like they want me

00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:14.800
to be a you

00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:19.040
know traditional wife or something um so

00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:20.800
yeah if you've done a good job

00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:22.959
individuating you can see it it can

00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:26.040
drive you a little bit nuts um but you

00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:27.720
can go through it pretty fast if you

00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.880
haven't then

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.079
you're searching for what roles to take

00:12:33.079 --> 00:12:34.760
on and they're the very roles that you

00:12:34.760 --> 00:12:37.920
hated and then you become in psychically

00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:40.959
conflicted um but the big the big Point

00:12:40.959 --> 00:12:44.800
as all good therapists would tell you is

00:12:44.800 --> 00:12:48.480
uh you know that it's in intas psychic

00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.800
uh Dynamics it's although you

00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.279
think it has you know it's it's caused

00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.399
by the other person

00:12:57.839 --> 00:13:00.839
so

00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.600
Justin I have a question for you it's

00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:06.959
going to take me a little while to get

00:13:06.959 --> 00:13:10.560
there but the word love brought it up

00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:13.000
because I a couple weeks ago I read this

00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.120
book on white holes that Cheryl

00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.560
recommended to me and

00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:21.800
um this guy argues that a white hole is

00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:25.240
truly mathematical right now but what he

00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.240
said his postulate is that the black

00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.959
hole when it gets to the singularity

00:13:30.959 --> 00:13:34.040
space and time cease to exist and it

00:13:34.040 --> 00:13:36.240
turns into a black white hole and starts

00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.040
reversing and from the exterior we can't

00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:40.279
tell the difference he explained

00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:46.199
why which brought to mind your model of

00:13:46.199 --> 00:13:48.959
incoming potentials transduced into

00:13:48.959 --> 00:13:51.519
outgoing potentials which feels like a

00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.800
black hole drawing in and a white hole

00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:58.519
going out and people fall in love but

00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:00.680
they bursting with joy they're bursting

00:14:00.680 --> 00:14:02.720
with enthusiasm which sounds white ho

00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.120
like to me so you've got this thing that

00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.560
you're talking about which makes a lot

00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:08.120
of sense and I have some

00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:09.639
rationalizations for that which I won't

00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.920
get into but my question for you is

00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:15.079
where is the observer in

00:14:18.800 --> 00:14:23.680
that you mean in the in the example of

00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:26.600
in your transducer model oh where's the

00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.639
Observer uh there is no Observer there's

00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:31.800
only

00:14:31.800 --> 00:14:34.320
experience uh because it's it's very

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:38.880
much borrowed from Whitehead and so um

00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:41.560
um what's real is the experience the

00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:44.240
experience doesn't have an observer The

00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.959
Observer is a structure created through

00:14:46.959 --> 00:14:49.000
retrospective when you look back at

00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.120
memory you look back at

00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.240
the

00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:57.199
um so um

00:14:57.199 --> 00:15:00.800
uh unless you have the experience but

00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:02.720
then you you there's also the experience

00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.600
of being The Observer which is more like

00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.920
the white hole black hole um so um it's

00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:10.040
not

00:15:10.040 --> 00:15:14.240
like uh pop culture Quantum decoherence

00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.440
that depends upon a an

00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.839
observer

00:15:19.839 --> 00:15:22.800
um yeah so they just they're just just

00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:24.959
playing with the ideas right yeah no no

00:15:24.959 --> 00:15:26.839
that's a good question there is none

00:15:26.839 --> 00:15:30.839
there is none at at um well let me throw

00:15:30.839 --> 00:15:33.480
something at you because I have I I in

00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:34.639
my own

00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:36.880
experience the rate at which I

00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:39.319
experience time depends on the

00:15:39.319 --> 00:15:41.040
oscillation of the frequency I happen to

00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:44.120
be inhabiting so if I was inhabiting the

00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.440
spinning of the Galaxy that would appear

00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.079
like Stillness and when I slide into

00:15:50.079 --> 00:15:53.120
spaces that I in that direction at least

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.480
that's when The Observer or the witness

00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.079
to the far end of The Observer seems to

00:15:58.079 --> 00:16:00.600
show up

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:02.800
and I don't know what the motion is

00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:04.360
going on there as far as the white hole

00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.040
and black hole is concerned but that's

00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:08.399
just something I'm playing with yeah no

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.519
The Observer as far as I have

00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.079
experienced it is a tricky little

00:16:14.079 --> 00:16:18.319
slippery eel

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.040
um what what what is important in my

00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:33.720
experience

00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.720
is

00:16:37.839 --> 00:16:40.360
to okay there's two things so when

00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:43.839
you're experiencing the oscillation of

00:16:43.839 --> 00:16:47.079
energy there the body has its own

00:16:47.079 --> 00:16:49.399
awareness right it's just it's just the

00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.079
body's feeling that like I wouldn't say

00:16:52.079 --> 00:16:54.399
I could observe my breath or I could

00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.759
just feel what it's like to

00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.160
breathe now it's very tricky because

00:17:00.160 --> 00:17:02.199
when I'm sitting sitting there just

00:17:02.199 --> 00:17:04.799
trying to feel like what it feels like

00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.400
to breathe I have this a little Observer

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:09.439
who see who's looking making sure I'm

00:17:09.439 --> 00:17:11.640
doing it

00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:16.839
right um so so the pure experience

00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.280
wouldn't have that little

00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:22.160
Observer but the H but then when I

00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.079
notice that the Observer is rising in my

00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.360
experience then I'm stuck in the same

00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:29.559
Loop you know because then I want to

00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.000
know how do I know that so the the the

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.039
presence of the witness is also an

00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:36.600
experience I'm having and I have an

00:17:36.600 --> 00:17:39.160
experience that's associated with this

00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.960
structure imaginary structure called the

00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.799
witness is it looking in the past and

00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.039
then I get caught up in that and then I

00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.000
realize oh I'm having the experience of

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.760
thinking of those things but you can

00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:52.720
never catch the experience once you

00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.840
catch it it's slightly gone you know

00:17:55.840 --> 00:17:57.880
because these things are like waves you

00:17:57.880 --> 00:17:59.080
can catch

00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:03.000
the the fuzzy trace of the memory before

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.880
it passes right um and then what happens

00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.640
is we catch the fuzzy trace of the

00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.360
memory happens we get excited about it

00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.880
and then we make it more clear as an

00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.640
idea we clarify it the fuzzy feeling

00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.600
into a cool idea which is cool what we

00:18:18.600 --> 00:18:23.159
do um so in in in that in the early

00:18:23.159 --> 00:18:25.559
Universe there was no there is no

00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.520
Observer okay there there is just the

00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:31.480
experiencing but uh maybe I mean maybe

00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.440
one of the things that pops out early in

00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.760
the early universe is some kind

00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:40.880
of Observer that would be an interesting

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.120
speculation maybe the white hole is what

00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:47.360
observes the black hole I don't know

00:18:47.360 --> 00:18:50.559
but yeah but in my thing it's it's all

00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:52.240
white hyan so

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.440
experience is

00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.919
um pure experience doesn't have an

00:18:57.919 --> 00:19:00.400
observer although you can have the pure

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:01.960
experience

00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:05.480
of there's an observer I want to make

00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.520
one distinction that I have between the

00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:09.799
witness and the Observer because there

00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:11.720
are three times in my life where I was

00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.400
in what I would call the witness State

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.799
and I did not know that I was in it

00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.280
until I was out of it I could see my own

00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:20.000
thinking going on out in the distance

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.320
and I don't know how long I was there

00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:23.760
but when I popped out so that I make a

00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:25.280
distinction between those two because

00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:29.000
that yeah that's the experience of of

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:32.000
the Observer and then you realize you

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.000
had the experience of the obser right

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.280
okay

00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:37.960
yes okay it's an experience coming from

00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:40.840
a different state you're you're in a

00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:43.200
different state so your experience is

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.280
different um and then you realize it and

00:19:46.280 --> 00:19:48.799
then you call up Wilbur and he says oh

00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:50.960
that's the witness well the witness at

00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.960
least to me there is that is the only

00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:55.559
word that can be applied there because

00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.320
nothing else is occurring so remember

00:19:58.320 --> 00:19:59.600
remember I don't know if you were in the

00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:01.480
festival and the first thing we did with

00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:05.640
the totem was um being not

00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.120
becoming don't remember and what we were

00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:12.080
playing with is

00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:15.000
that in your own frame of

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.600
reference you can't all you can see are

00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:21.039
things either coming at you or going

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.840
away from you you don't actually

00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:26.240
experience yourself

00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.840
moving um in because you're your own

00:20:28.840 --> 00:20:30.600
inertial frame of reference and what you

00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:33.039
just described is sort of like that like

00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.240
you just see the 10,000

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.840
things you're not in it and then you

00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:45.600
realize after the fact oh I was The

00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:48.720
Observer of that without the Observer

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.799
structure I wasn't removed once removed

00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.120
from the Observer by having a psych I

00:20:55.120 --> 00:21:00.080
you probably you know so um

00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:02.799
um yeah

00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:08.640
so uh the the if you take it from and

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.840
you know what what Einstein said is if

00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:13.840
you were floating in the void of space

00:21:13.840 --> 00:21:16.039
you would not be able to experience

00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:19.880
space or time because there was there's

00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.000
no place to position the Observer and

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:24.799
those things would just go away that

00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.480
they're not just merely psychological

00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:31.320
they depend upon context and all this

00:21:31.320 --> 00:21:32.559
stuff so I think that's what you're

00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.640
getting with these these different these

00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.760
different modes

00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:40.760
of playing with the The

00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:43.760
Observer

00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:48.400
um it for me it's also interesting as to

00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.720
like what happens in an animal's

00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.240
experience uh maybe high up they have a

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:58.159
little bit of a Proto simulated self uh

00:21:58.159 --> 00:22:01.760
um but in but one might

00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:05.360
imagine that that doesn't linger in

00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:07.799
their Consciousness in most animals

00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.039
Consciousness and yet they clearly have

00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:12.880
experience and Rich joy and all this

00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:18.080
stuff um so um yeah these are

00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:20.760
interesting questions thanks for playing

00:22:20.760 --> 00:22:23.640
with me yeah no they're very interesting

00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.520
you know what sasia you know

00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:28.200
metaphorical leaps uh very very

00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.200
important

00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:34.679
yeah and who's the Observer when two

00:22:34.679 --> 00:22:36.919
people get married usually the parents

00:22:36.919 --> 00:22:38.720
they're there like what fry said there's

00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:39.960
always

00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:44.520
six six people in the in bed with

00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:49.240
you you your wife her parents and your

00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.559
parents they're they're they're

00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.240
observing they're in hyper local they

00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:55.880
don't have to be in the same room but

00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.960
they're watching you

00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.400
sorry I want to play with uh what you

00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:13.520
were um talking about Justin about the

00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:16.720
black hole coming to a point I don't

00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:18.000
remember what the point was and then

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.159
there's the white hole that expands from

00:23:20.159 --> 00:23:23.559
there and so I'm I'm playing with it

00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.000
from not understanding all of what you

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.039
read just from what occurs to me is

00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:32.039
that

00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.320
um is that any kind

00:23:35.320 --> 00:23:39.880
of expansion of coming into the new and

00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.600
and and realizing something from the

00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:46.320
black C to this point of maybe awareness

00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:48.679
that most of what we have are white

00:23:48.679 --> 00:23:51.279
holes of projection that that that we

00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:53.720
don't really

00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.520
have is that it feels like we're we're

00:23:56.520 --> 00:23:58.400
constantly imagining

00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.200
a

00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.520
future that is

00:24:02.520 --> 00:24:07.120
um a result of and maybe a reaction to

00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:09.360
the present and the

00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:12.760
past and how do we come to a place where

00:24:12.760 --> 00:24:14.640
there

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.880
isn't any

00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.200
trajectory and that it

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.279
actually unfolds in real time in

00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.520
something new that's what is occurring

00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:27.919
to me I don't know if it's related to

00:24:27.919 --> 00:24:30.120
you

00:24:31.399 --> 00:24:33.799
said I don't really know how to approach

00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.480
that I mean everything to me is either

00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.440
an inflow or an outflow but there is

00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.559
these sort of stasis points which I

00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.240
would call The Observer at least point

00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:47.440
to us an observer and it does seem to me

00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.320
that the outflow has a lightness to it

00:24:51.320 --> 00:24:53.919
and a brightness to it like light coming

00:24:53.919 --> 00:24:55.799
out of a white

00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.120
hole and the gravit ation of part of

00:24:59.120 --> 00:25:01.039
what had me think about the gravitation

00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.760
is that when my mother died I had this

00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:07.279
experience that

00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.760
um the love for her was the missing of

00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:15.919
that infant mother Bond and the

00:25:15.919 --> 00:25:18.120
inculturation had sort of blinded me to

00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:20.399
that and that felt deep and it felt like

00:25:20.399 --> 00:25:23.000
a pull to me and that has a gravitation

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.120
to

00:25:24.120 --> 00:25:26.720
it um so that's part of why I think of

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.039
black hole they gravitation and love are

00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.200
related and why joy and the outflow are

00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.679
related it's just the something I'm

00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:36.559
playing with it feels right at the

00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.679
moment I don't know if that got anywhere

00:25:38.679 --> 00:25:41.720
near what you were pointing

00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:47.120
to so while we're on

00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:49.159
this

00:25:49.159 --> 00:25:52.120
topic um so I've been playing you know

00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:53.880
I'm I'm trying to write this book and

00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.679
I've been playing with

00:25:56.679 --> 00:25:58.200
um

00:25:58.200 --> 00:25:59.279
what

00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:05.840
if what if the major aect streams

00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:07.360
are

00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:11.039
sophisticated okay so one of the things

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.720
in

00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:18.720
that we me and Evo worked on last month

00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.279
was at the singularity one of the things

00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.799
that we see in all in all physics is

00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.559
this assumption that at the singularity

00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.279
something bifurcates like SpaceTime yiny

00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.039
Yang Aros and pseudo Aros if it's that

00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.320
Gaff me all these these bifurcations

00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:40.000
good and

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.520
evil and we started playing around with

00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:48.000
that there's no axiomatic reason why

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.159
when the singularity breaks or asymmetry

00:26:50.159 --> 00:26:52.080
breaks if you think of the

00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:54.320
singularity before the singularity

00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:57.399
there's just symmetry there's no reason

00:26:57.399 --> 00:27:00.399
why it has to bifurcate it may exrate in

00:27:00.399 --> 00:27:02.520
other words maybe five things come

00:27:02.520 --> 00:27:05.799
online at the same time um and and we

00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.279
said that bifurcation because everybody

00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:10.480
always thinks that bifurcation is

00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:16.159
probably a artifact of the Mind our

00:27:16.159 --> 00:27:18.399
minds because it's easier for us to

00:27:18.399 --> 00:27:20.720
think in terms of tooth so then I

00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:22.440
started thinking what

00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.080
if and then I H I had this notion of

00:27:26.080 --> 00:27:28.760
that at the singularity there X foration

00:27:28.760 --> 00:27:31.679
where X start stands in for a multiple

00:27:31.679 --> 00:27:36.200
greater than two what if there are four

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.440
things that constitute the gradient

00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:43.240
array and these four things are

00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:47.080
continuous through all entities but they

00:27:47.080 --> 00:27:49.880
complexify and by the time they get to

00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.480
the animal body they're the four aects

00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.880
or the four major aect

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:58.440
streams and um

00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.720
so what I what I was playing around with

00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:03.960
just yesterday and today was the

00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.200
gradient array after the singularity the

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.679
four principles of reality are

00:28:10.679 --> 00:28:14.399
potency and that comes with uh that maps

00:28:14.399 --> 00:28:17.760
onto the seeking and the tremulous

00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:19.919
energies um

00:28:19.919 --> 00:28:23.640
relation and uh that maps on to the

00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.880
connection and the care and the

00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:28.039
interbeing advance

00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:31.080
that um like creative advance that maps

00:28:31.080 --> 00:28:35.120
onto uh Mastery and play and intimacy

00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:38.840
which maps on to lust um and ingression

00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:40.039
the internal

00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:43.679
relationships so there's something

00:28:43.679 --> 00:28:47.399
about what's I mean gaffney's doing it

00:28:47.399 --> 00:28:49.600
Michael 11an there's something about

00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:53.240
this working from The Human Experience

00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.080
and saying and and saying that this is

00:28:56.080 --> 00:28:59.360
just a version of things and patterns

00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:02.919
deep patterns that were in place a long

00:29:02.919 --> 00:29:05.760
long time ago so I think that's kind of

00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:07.360
what you're saying like you have this

00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:10.000
actual human experience albe a

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.600
non-ordinary experience in these

00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:15.799
energetic St experiences you're having

00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:17.640
and you're saying what if this Maps

00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.880
directly on to something about the

00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.760
universe Universal energy and so um yeah

00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:26.720
I like this kind of this is kind of new

00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:29.440
new kind of thinking and even five years

00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.320
ago people would just see it's what they

00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:33.000
call it

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.080
anthropomorphic thinking right but now

00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:38.519
like Zack Stein and Gaffney have this

00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:42.320
word anth anthro onology if it's real in

00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:44.360
The Human Experience it has to be real

00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:47.159
in ontologically real it's just finding

00:29:47.159 --> 00:29:49.799
the grammar that connects connects all

00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.519
the way through so um and Michael Leven

00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:56.519
saying things like this you know like it

00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:58.880
has memory agency and this and that then

00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:00.519
we have to say it's conscious right

00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:01.919
because these are the fundamental

00:30:01.919 --> 00:30:04.120
principles of Consciousness so these

00:30:04.120 --> 00:30:06.880
these these things are hard because they

00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:09.720
really make us stretch our our

00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:13.960
vocabulary to to Al also be precise but

00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:17.679
to let go of certain biases um but there

00:30:17.679 --> 00:30:20.279
seems to be we were talking last time

00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.440
about kind of latency in the system and

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.159
it seems to be this kind of thinking is

00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:28.039
either it just selects because we're in

00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:31.799
this part of the limal web or whatever

00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.840
um but

00:30:36.399 --> 00:30:39.000
um yeah I mean I heard Alan musk the

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:43.080
other day talking about you know um Ro

00:30:43.080 --> 00:30:49.039
pers what's his name uh then you know U

00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:50.799
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy like

00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.720
there's all this imagination that's

00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.639
happening in in these spaces as we try

00:30:55.639 --> 00:30:59.399
to as Phoebe say imagine ourselves into

00:30:59.399 --> 00:31:02.799
the new future perig is is Zen In The

00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.519
Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is he

00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.240
isn't he yeah and then but he also

00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:09.399
didn't he also write Hitchhiker's Guide

00:31:09.399 --> 00:31:12.399
that was Douglas Adams oh Douglas Adams

00:31:12.399 --> 00:31:13.440
I just want to throw in there's

00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.240
something exciting I saw that CNN had an

00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.320
article about Michael Len's work I

00:31:18.320 --> 00:31:20.919
thought that was pretty really yeah just

00:31:20.919 --> 00:31:23.480
last week yeah it was written I saw it

00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:24.880
written I I don't know if they covered

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.159
it on TV

00:31:26.159 --> 00:31:29.159
or

00:31:31.639 --> 00:31:34.679
if only Elon Musk had referred to

00:31:34.679 --> 00:31:39.840
perig yeah now I'm I mean I was yeah I

00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:42.320
was liking it a little more but all

00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:44.639
right I gotta wipe that memory I gotta

00:31:44.639 --> 00:31:46.760
wipe those two things out of my brain

00:31:46.760 --> 00:31:49.840
because they got so stuck

00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:54.000
together thank you for the correction

00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:59.799
Anna thanks um this is very I feel a lot

00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:01.519
of arousal a lot of energy in my body

00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:03.039
and I'm thinking of the two interviews

00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.120
you gave with the two Alexanders and

00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:08.880
Andrew Sweeny I love that one and I had

00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.960
a look at the one with um Enriquez Greg

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.760
Enriquez yeah and um you were talking

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:18.720
about notes and about the time and I

00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.799
think in one of those interviews there

00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.480
was a distinction made between linear

00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.639
time and circular time and then and I

00:32:26.639 --> 00:32:29.159
thought what the because it doesn't

00:32:29.159 --> 00:32:31.720
make any sense to have or this or that

00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:33.360
and then I think at the end you were

00:32:33.360 --> 00:32:35.720
trying to find a new way of describing

00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.559
the ocean and the flows of or just

00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:41.639
because how are we describing the ocean

00:32:41.639 --> 00:32:44.639
like it's it's this and that and while

00:32:44.639 --> 00:32:47.080
I'm immersing myself in these times now

00:32:47.080 --> 00:32:49.159
here in December on this southern

00:32:49.159 --> 00:32:51.639
hemisphere it's a whole different time

00:32:51.639 --> 00:32:54.760
or I'm experiencing time in a very

00:32:54.760 --> 00:32:56.639
different way there's these subtleties

00:32:56.639 --> 00:32:57.720
of

00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:59.600
I don't know what it is but I'm just

00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:02.600
experiencing it it feels different it is

00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:04.880
different and there are patterns and

00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.799
there are Cycles but it's not just one

00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.679
thing and when I'm thinking of the nodes

00:33:10.679 --> 00:33:12.840
it's like it's not that it goes like in

00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:15.559
a in a singularity or like last week

00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.159
there's been a nza just showed a picture

00:33:18.159 --> 00:33:21.600
of um that they found a white hole with

00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:23.679
where the stars are born and how that

00:33:23.679 --> 00:33:26.320
looks like and I thought well I don't

00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:29.120
know if looks fun but I I don't know if

00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:32.840
that is a wide hole because it it is not

00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:34.639
just one thing of a birthing place where

00:33:34.639 --> 00:33:37.440
it gets out to me it's a singular point

00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.159
and it's like a note it just it's this

00:33:40.159 --> 00:33:41.679
it's what I'm seeing or what I'm

00:33:41.679 --> 00:33:44.080
experiencing myself it's like a star or

00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:47.480
a ray it's not like going from A to B

00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.679
through a Distillery it's not like that

00:33:50.679 --> 00:33:53.720
I think that's my experience but what do

00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:57.000
I know um I'm just curious here and and

00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.000
I see maso's model beyond the

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:01.159
self-actualization it's like the two

00:34:01.159 --> 00:34:03.720
pyramids and that's again that's very

00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.240
duwal thinking when you go through this

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.880
and you're at the singular point you go

00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:09.960
into the allocentric it's not like that

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.720
I feel feels very different it feels

00:34:13.720 --> 00:34:15.679
more grounded it feels like this

00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.040
individuation and from this individuated

00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:21.119
point you just this I don't know can you

00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.440
speak to that a little bit as well yeah

00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.679
I mean that's why we coin the term ex

00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.679
forcation you know ex vation expiration

00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.720
like from from a

00:34:32.720 --> 00:34:35.159
point a lot of things can happen all at

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.320
once simultaneously and each one of

00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:38.520
those things could have different

00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:41.040
rhythms and different oscillations and

00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:46.000
different um um it's it's just with an X

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.760
like if you think of

00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.200
bifurcate and you just put an X there

00:34:50.200 --> 00:34:53.520
where X is the variable you know like a

00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:57.839
math X is the variable for a a number

00:34:57.839 --> 00:34:59.839
greater than

00:34:59.839 --> 00:35:02.839
two so instead of bate which would be

00:35:02.839 --> 00:35:07.240
two for it's X forade so Tri forade or

00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:09.680
quad forade or

00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:12.359
whatever um yes ex

00:35:12.359 --> 00:35:16.440
forade um it can it can solve a lot of

00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.839
problems but we won't go there

00:35:19.839 --> 00:35:23.160
um so yeah this notion and the and the

00:35:23.160 --> 00:35:24.880
thing that I

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.000
was complaining to them about was it was

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.400
it's such it's so linear to think that

00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.560
there's masculine time linear and

00:35:33.560 --> 00:35:35.440
feminine time circular although he did

00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:37.880
say well what what we mean by the circle

00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:39.760
is that that you have lots of things you

00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.720
can put in there I mean I think he just

00:35:41.720 --> 00:35:44.960
saved himself a little bit um but

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.400
there's all kinds of time it's not like

00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.240
all these women were just on cycles and

00:35:50.240 --> 00:35:52.240
you know we're not premodern okay

00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:54.400
there's the seasons and then there's you

00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.200
know the generations and there's my

00:35:56.200 --> 00:35:58.920
menstral cycle and we we don't

00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.720
experience just that and then I was

00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:03.319
afraid he was going to say well it's a

00:36:03.319 --> 00:36:05.359
spiral because it's a circle and the

00:36:05.359 --> 00:36:07.560
line which I hate you know there's all

00:36:07.560 --> 00:36:10.760
kinds of different

00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:13.960
temporal uh rhythms and oscillations

00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:18.040
that you can tune into um it's not clear

00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:22.079
whether you're you're tuning into onto

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.560
something ontologically real or it's

00:36:24.560 --> 00:36:26.319
it's you know many times it's just a

00:36:26.319 --> 00:36:29.160
subjetive state right but

00:36:29.160 --> 00:36:33.839
sometimes you can you can you

00:36:33.839 --> 00:36:36.640
can you you're really suspicious that

00:36:36.640 --> 00:36:39.000
it's it's not a subjective space it's

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.560
something it's some kind of Rhythm like

00:36:41.560 --> 00:36:44.480
when you're with with when you're with

00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.160
the horses and you stand around them and

00:36:47.160 --> 00:36:49.920
they eat hay you get into this thing

00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.720
which I call the long now and you find

00:36:52.720 --> 00:36:54.280
like I'll bring all these like hyper

00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:56.000
Galaxy Minds here and we'll sit around

00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.880
and we'll just stand standing around and

00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:00.280
we'll just stand around for hours and

00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:03.200
not much talking happens and you can

00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:04.760
just enter a different

00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:08.119
time and and um part of it is because

00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:10.440
the horses are in that time and then you

00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:12.760
kind of get you kind of get sucked into

00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.079
that time and so I think they're

00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:20.920
ontologically real time time frames or

00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:23.040
time time

00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:25.280
strations time

00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.079
strations are are ontologically real but

00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.760
they're real because they

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:36.000
are uh collectively propagated either by

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.760
a group of animals or a group of people

00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.960
or electrons or photons or gravitons or

00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.640
the trees I think they're they're kind

00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:49.640
of there's something that is propagated

00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:51.720
from

00:37:51.720 --> 00:37:54.720
from

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.920
the entities or the actors or something

00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.640
and then you can you can tune tune in to

00:38:01.640 --> 00:38:06.160
that you know those those Tim

00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:11.480
strations uh I just made up that

00:38:13.359 --> 00:38:15.960
word thank and that makes sense I see it

00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.800
with the trees and with the garage when

00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.040
it's been raining you can hear the worms

00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:23.000
in the in the ground and that's sign or

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:24.400
you can hear the trees when the wind

00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:27.160
blows that's another it's not an other

00:38:27.160 --> 00:38:30.400
time but it's a different attuning it's

00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:33.839
almost an attuning to what is yeah it's

00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:36.240
like walking into a different time it's

00:38:36.240 --> 00:38:38.480
like

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:43.280
yeah and of course time dilation and

00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:48.000
time speing up is real in physics it's

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:52.079
not just uh altered state

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.520
so again these all these these

00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:57.839
parallels are

00:38:57.839 --> 00:39:00.839
interesting

00:39:02.160 --> 00:39:04.800
um there's also very interesting

00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.920
parallel between the size of the animal

00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.319
and the number of heartbeats and how

00:39:10.319 --> 00:39:14.040
long they live like everybody's got like

00:39:14.040 --> 00:39:15.640
12,000

00:39:15.640 --> 00:39:18.760
or heart beats or not more than 12,000

00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:21.720
heartbeats but that that's also

00:39:21.720 --> 00:39:23.280
interesting that your the way your heart

00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.440
keeps a your

00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.599
lifetime um you can Google it and you'll

00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.760
see it's very it's very clear

00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.640
that the larger the animal the slower

00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:36.880
the heart rate the longer they live the

00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.079
smaller the animal the faster the heart

00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:40.839
rate and the shorter they live but

00:39:40.839 --> 00:39:43.359
everybody gets the same number of heart

00:39:43.359 --> 00:39:47.160
heartbeats just about you know it's a

00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:50.800
scatterplot follows a trend and so one

00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.760
one would assume that the mouse that

00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.160
lives three years um lives in a time

00:40:00.160 --> 00:40:02.160
frame where they feel like they've lived

00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:04.880
a hundred years or

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.160
something we don't know but that's an

00:40:08.160 --> 00:40:10.599
interesting

00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:12.680
question

00:40:12.680 --> 00:40:15.160
Matthew

00:40:15.160 --> 00:40:19.640
oh unless you want to uh give your spot

00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:21.520
to Justin if he has a followup on this

00:40:21.520 --> 00:40:23.440
and you have something else and then we

00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:25.760
come back to you but it's up to you

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:29.520
unless you're talk about this or

00:40:29.560 --> 00:40:33.920
not you're muted

00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.520
no this is real quick it one other thing

00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:43.040
occurred to me that if gravity and love

00:40:43.040 --> 00:40:45.920
are related then the closest

00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.640
gravitational pull we have is the earth

00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:50.480
which was struck me as your love of

00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:52.880
Nature and everybody's feeling nature we

00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.480
have the star there it's got he's got a

00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.520
pull to it too but it seems like the

00:40:57.520 --> 00:41:01.280
gravitation of Mother Earth is inherent

00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.839
in all of

00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:10.720
us

00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:16.560
Matt uh I had a yeah it was

00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:21.800
um yeah kind of relating to this idea of

00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:27.119
um anthro anology in related and how it

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.160
connected to um what Bard said about his

00:41:31.160 --> 00:41:32.920
idea of like

00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:36.040
archetypes and how he uses it to help

00:41:36.040 --> 00:41:38.000
people and kind of how that ties into

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.160
the

00:41:39.160 --> 00:41:41.680
individuation I'm just kind of curious

00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:45.319
yeah what you think about his that idea

00:41:45.319 --> 00:41:47.440
first how you hold that because it

00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:52.359
sounded to me like how he used the word

00:41:52.359 --> 00:41:56.319
archetype did sound Yi Andes as in like

00:41:56.319 --> 00:41:58.040
like yeah there's certain people that

00:41:58.040 --> 00:42:01.119
have certain ways they like to live and

00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:03.839
be I'm aware there I think you guys made

00:42:03.839 --> 00:42:06.040
the distinction that there are obviously

00:42:06.040 --> 00:42:07.680
there are different types of archetypes

00:42:07.680 --> 00:42:09.599
that are more

00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:14.040
evolutionary um but yeah just kind of

00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:16.960
curious about that and how I mean it

00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:21.559
seems to me that you can if this idea

00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:27.680
that that you know there are the the the

00:42:27.680 --> 00:42:31.200
exf forcation or whatever happens and

00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:34.319
those patterns you know continue even

00:42:34.319 --> 00:42:36.960
through humans and other animals and

00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:40.000
stuff like that then to me that that

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:43.319
would sort of make sense of yeah maybe

00:42:43.319 --> 00:42:46.359
archetypes are kind of a you know a wise

00:42:46.359 --> 00:42:49.480
thing or maybe a good tool to use to

00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.800
help navigate you know your life or

00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:55.440
whatever as opposed to maybe like like I

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.119
used to be kind of into that stuff but

00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.079
then I sort of saw it as kind of like

00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:01.440
okay it's kind of fun and neat but I

00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:05.119
don't know maybe um so

00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:08.720
yeah yeah so I think Bard was you know

00:43:08.720 --> 00:43:12.319
he was using the general term archetypes

00:43:12.319 --> 00:43:14.480
in the way young used it but the problem

00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:18.760
with popular psychology is there's a you

00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:20.720
know they use the same archetypes over

00:43:20.720 --> 00:43:22.480
and over and over again that they

00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:24.480
borrowed from Young or popular

00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.599
psychology or something and archetypes

00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.880
you know can live in unique ways in

00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.319
people and he was more like saying you

00:43:33.319 --> 00:43:36.200
know trying to get people to understand

00:43:36.200 --> 00:43:39.079
their own archetype outside of like

00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:40.839
reading a book of Youngs and then

00:43:40.839 --> 00:43:42.839
picking an AR archetype and it's like

00:43:42.839 --> 00:43:44.839
how do you imagine yourself or if I

00:43:44.839 --> 00:43:47.000
asked you what's your superpower you

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:50.520
know these these kinds of imaginary

00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:56.599
questions enable us to um to to

00:43:56.599 --> 00:44:00.520
image more clearly um the archetype that

00:44:00.520 --> 00:44:06.520
we're playing playing out um and

00:44:06.520 --> 00:44:09.520
um

00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:15.640
um so now if you have a bunch of people

00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:18.599
doing that um you will find that there

00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.079
are some general patterns in all

00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:23.680
archetypes that

00:44:23.680 --> 00:44:26.359
people um have but that's because all

00:44:26.359 --> 00:44:28.520
humans on the earth so you know there's

00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:33.119
got to be some kind of uh

00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:38.440
um general or common common thing um I I

00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:42.160
don't like to work with archetypes

00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:47.160
um um I I work or symbols I like to work

00:44:47.160 --> 00:44:48.079
with

00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:53.400
signs um which are if you just walk

00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.160
around and notice what you're noticing

00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:59.119
all the time like if you always walk by

00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:00.760
this one side of the street and you

00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:02.400
always notice

00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.559
something so it's something that's

00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:07.480
actually real like you always notice the

00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.480
way the railing on this person's front

00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.440
porch curls over under like that you

00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.920
just always notice it if you notice that

00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:18.119
you notice it that's what I call paying

00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:20.760
attention to the signs that there's some

00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.000
kind of resonance to between you and the

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.640
sign and you can make it AR type out of

00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:29.960
that um but what I I like about working

00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.920
with signs more is that they're more

00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:36.800
work with the perceptual body and and

00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.160
when we as modern people with so much

00:45:40.160 --> 00:45:42.800
imagination like the Marvel characters

00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.720
are all archetypes right one's fast

00:45:45.720 --> 00:45:49.400
one's Spidey one's intelligent one's

00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.720
this one's that one's a fox that's an

00:45:52.720 --> 00:45:57.040
archetype um so

00:45:57.040 --> 00:46:00.599
um yeah so he wasn't using it you know

00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.599
there's so much difference between me

00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:05.200
and Bard that he didn't want to you I

00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:07.359
did beat up on him in a couple of things

00:46:07.359 --> 00:46:09.359
and he didn't like my word

00:46:09.359 --> 00:46:15.480
Eternal um but um yeah I think he he he

00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:19.000
was trying to more elicit people's

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.280
imagination about themselves you know

00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.760
like like

00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.839
notice um yeah because he was saying he

00:46:26.839 --> 00:46:28.359
worked with a lot like especially with

00:46:28.359 --> 00:46:30.880
like trans people are people who are no

00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.839
identity fits them so there's not a real

00:46:33.839 --> 00:46:36.040
archetype instead of saying I'm Q or I'm

00:46:36.040 --> 00:46:39.280
algae whatever just come up with your

00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.040
own own archetype and then have that

00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:46.160
live in you um instead of trying to find

00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:48.440
one that fits you since we're so

00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.280
experimental these days with our

00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.040
identity

00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:56.640
so

00:46:56.640 --> 00:46:58.640
it seems like

00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:02.599
a yeah like a lot more work but also

00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:04.119
probably

00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.119
more

00:47:08.200 --> 00:47:11.200
um you know accurate in terms of how

00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:13.520
it's probably more relating to what's

00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:17.160
going on like in each person's life as

00:47:17.160 --> 00:47:20.280
it happens as opposed to like something

00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:24.520
that came many many years ago yeah so

00:47:24.520 --> 00:47:26.640
you know one of the problems with a lot

00:47:26.640 --> 00:47:28.640
of this stuff because we're all read

00:47:28.640 --> 00:47:30.760
about it and there's games and Tarot

00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:32.920
cards and this and that is that people

00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:35.359
now they'll they'll read about an

00:47:35.359 --> 00:47:37.599
archetype and then they try to fit

00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:41.280
themselves to it versus the archetype uh

00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.880
like if you read Young's red book you

00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.040
know he's got all kinds of archetypal

00:47:46.040 --> 00:47:47.760
patterns and this and that or something

00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.800
like what Cheryl's doing they're all

00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.359
archetypal Tauruses

00:47:52.359 --> 00:47:56.760
and and and so where we're just we're

00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:59.359
just trying to wonder why is that

00:47:59.359 --> 00:48:01.839
coming out of me you know what does it

00:48:01.839 --> 00:48:04.680
what does it mean

00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:09.599
versus you're in a group of peers and

00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:11.559
then you know like a bunch of women and

00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:13.640
then they all take on the archetype of

00:48:13.640 --> 00:48:15.839
the divine feminine but it's so

00:48:15.839 --> 00:48:18.480
conceptually explicit that then you

00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:19.319
start

00:48:19.319 --> 00:48:23.720
to have that be like a norm or or you

00:48:23.720 --> 00:48:27.319
know an over over explicitly explicit

00:48:27.319 --> 00:48:29.640
role and then people start to ape what

00:48:29.640 --> 00:48:35.240
that is supposed to be um

00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.760
yeah that's the problem with our culture

00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:40.640
you know everybody gets a little bit of

00:48:40.640 --> 00:48:43.120
knowing about everything and

00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:45.200
[Music]

00:48:45.200 --> 00:48:48.920
then Bonnie what I hear in the idea of

00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:51.240
signs rather than

00:48:51.240 --> 00:48:54.599
symbols is that um there's a

00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.599
um a direct

00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.040
um okay now I forgot what I was gonna

00:49:00.040 --> 00:49:03.839
say but um that was signs that there's a

00:49:03.839 --> 00:49:05.520
participation that there's there's

00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:08.839
something alive here that's in

00:49:08.839 --> 00:49:10.799
relationship with and I respond from

00:49:10.799 --> 00:49:13.240
something alive in me and it's not

00:49:13.240 --> 00:49:17.520
having having any precon con um

00:49:17.520 --> 00:49:18.960
conceived of

00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.160
structures that maybe can animate me in

00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:24.599
a more powerful way if I step into an

00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:27.119
archetype or maybe help me find my way

00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:29.720
into a new way of behavior by playing

00:49:29.720 --> 00:49:32.839
with that but if I if I if I don't do

00:49:32.839 --> 00:49:35.400
that and I just play with well where am

00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.040
I drawn and what is this why is this

00:49:38.040 --> 00:49:40.839
coming it sort of then the then the

00:49:40.839 --> 00:49:41.920
universe

00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:43.839
becomes

00:49:43.839 --> 00:49:45.799
um

00:49:45.799 --> 00:49:47.359
multi

00:49:47.359 --> 00:49:52.119
faceted and and and in a maybe in a t in

00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:54.400
a place of ongoing

00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.440
formation um

00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:59.720
um uh but with choice choice choice all

00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:02.799
all over the place that's that's some of

00:50:02.799 --> 00:50:05.760
the stuff that occurs me as you say that

00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:07.880
yeah that's beautiful and to and to you

00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.119
know the difference

00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:13.200
between going to catechism and seeing

00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:16.160
the Lord is a good shepherd and then and

00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:18.400
you hear the feeling tone that comes

00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:21.680
with that from the teacher versus going

00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:24.720
to Scotland one day and sitting on a Ken

00:50:24.720 --> 00:50:27.680
a hill and seeing a Shepherd out in the

00:50:27.680 --> 00:50:30.599
middle of nowhere day after day taking

00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:33.240
care of the sheep and wondering what is

00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:34.880
it like to

00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.359
be him or

00:50:37.359 --> 00:50:41.680
her that's that's that's so so the

00:50:41.680 --> 00:50:44.319
symbol is devoid of richness really it's

00:50:44.319 --> 00:50:47.359
kind of encapsulated

00:50:47.359 --> 00:50:50.920
into a bumper

00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:54.400
sticker um and then if you start to look

00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:57.040
at signs

00:50:57.040 --> 00:50:58.920
then you're right the the world becomes

00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:00.640
alive and the world becomes your church

00:51:00.640 --> 00:51:03.880
because that's where all the symbols are

00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:05.680
or it's a difference between praying to

00:51:05.680 --> 00:51:07.040
the Virgin

00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:10.079
Mary and not and and being disgusted

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.599
when someone breastfeeds on the in

00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:16.520
public right versus like getting

00:51:16.520 --> 00:51:18.760
completely enthralled with like oh my

00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:24.280
God like as Justin said the baby is is

00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.160
not really separate from the mother's

00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:28.480
body and that baby's going to grow up

00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.079
and have a whole life and what's going

00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:32.720
to happen to that b you know all the

00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:37.440
richness is in that particular imminent

00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:41.839
relationship um and you know you always

00:51:41.839 --> 00:51:44.799
and and if you if you lived in too much

00:51:44.799 --> 00:51:46.520
symbolic

00:51:46.520 --> 00:51:49.680
realm it just displaces what's actually

00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:51.319
the

00:51:51.319 --> 00:51:54.319
case

00:51:54.359 --> 00:51:57.359
um

00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:06.359
well like I found um all the symbolism

00:52:06.359 --> 00:52:09.680
and projections around

00:52:09.680 --> 00:52:13.880
motherhood to be hugely

00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:18.760
obstructive to the phenomena that you

00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:21.920
know there's this uterus

00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:26.200
vessel that that's carrying me

00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:28.960
and another being through an

00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.880
evolutionary process and it was like

00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.440
okay my blood's pumping 40 times more

00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.520
than you know a normal person I'm

00:52:37.520 --> 00:52:39.760
supposed to answer the phone I'm busy

00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:41.559
you

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:46.440
know um but it wasn't like in this sort

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.440
of cozy way at all it was more like this

00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:53.240
tsunami was happening unfolding and and

00:52:53.240 --> 00:52:57.040
really it was it was EX extremely you

00:52:57.040 --> 00:53:01.359
know strange in in in this way in which

00:53:01.359 --> 00:53:04.599
you went into some kind of deep time

00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:08.440
that you were participating in and it's

00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:11.240
only after they're born that this sort

00:53:11.240 --> 00:53:16.160
of relationship for me just you know

00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:19.040
began you know

00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.599
um but it it still had this pool of

00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:26.200
evolution I mean like

00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:30.000
the pull you know I like to tell um my

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.319
now adult kids that you know on one hand

00:53:33.319 --> 00:53:38.440
I'm like our dog that just wags its tail

00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:41.200
wildly you know and to the point of

00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:43.720
almost peeing when when when she saw

00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:46.319
them you know even if she saw them like

00:53:46.319 --> 00:53:49.240
once a year you know so that's there's

00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:52.839
that part of meat that is there but then

00:53:52.839 --> 00:53:55.400
there's another part of meat that if I

00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:57.280
haven't seen them for a year or

00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:59.920
something or and and they're living

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:02.359
their lives that I'm like okay let's get

00:54:02.359 --> 00:54:04.440
to know each other again you know I mean

00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:08.280
I just don't presume that I mean there's

00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.720
the intimacy but the intimacy only gets

00:54:11.720 --> 00:54:12.640
you

00:54:12.640 --> 00:54:17.760
closer to the extraordinary Divergence

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.400
that is needs to be I think one of your

00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.599
words is is is cultivation you know that

00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:26.680
it's it's a cultivation of these

00:54:26.680 --> 00:54:30.839
potential States not a knowing like oh I

00:54:30.839 --> 00:54:33.730
know you you know

00:54:33.730 --> 00:54:35.680
[Laughter]

00:54:35.680 --> 00:54:39.760
no it's let's meet again you know and

00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:41.760
again and again and

00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:45.520
again um even though there was

00:54:45.520 --> 00:54:48.240
that you know

00:54:48.240 --> 00:54:51.720
original sort of carrying thing but it

00:54:51.720 --> 00:54:53.559
never felt

00:54:53.559 --> 00:55:00.359
mine yeah well Thomas hubo says that

00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.319
um that that happens quicker and quicker

00:55:03.319 --> 00:55:05.200
now you you know you look at your child

00:55:05.200 --> 00:55:07.520
and you see you know they're from the

00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:10.960
future right there and so there's

00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:13.400
there's always a process

00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:17.640
of exploration like what is what is what

00:55:17.640 --> 00:55:21.640
is this uh what is this being um not

00:55:21.640 --> 00:55:24.640
only in terms of its personality but but

00:55:24.640 --> 00:55:27.000
literally

00:55:27.359 --> 00:55:30.319
um The Accelerated difference between

00:55:30.319 --> 00:55:32.400
the generations so you're right and then

00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:33.680
they go off and they have their own

00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:36.559
lives and then they come back and you

00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:38.480
have to with if you don't put any effort

00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:41.480
into it then they'll just hold back who

00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:43.119
they really are because you know they

00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:45.079
don't want to upset mom and you're still

00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:48.119
their baby I call those subpersonalities

00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:51.240
you can slip into you know transitional

00:55:51.240 --> 00:55:54.119
personality you use that Thanksgiving my

00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.240
sister and I she still sits in the chair

00:55:56.240 --> 00:55:58.160
she used to sit in I sit in the chair I

00:55:58.160 --> 00:56:01.119
used to sit in we just slip into these

00:56:01.119 --> 00:56:04.079
like personalities of being the

00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.280
daughters uh because my mother is

00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:09.240
incapable of actually understanding who

00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:11.200
we really are like you could never

00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:15.079
really Bridge bridged that in in her

00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:18.680
awareness so um you know she just says

00:56:18.680 --> 00:56:20.960
oh that's nice she doesn't really

00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:24.160
understand it so um yeah without if you

00:56:24.160 --> 00:56:25.839
don't put in e

00:56:25.839 --> 00:56:28.480
you you you can't learn who your who

00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.640
your children

00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:33.079
are it's a funny thing there there

00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:34.559
they're

00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:38.039
as recognizable as your own face and

00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:41.880
they're they're a mystery at the same

00:56:49.680 --> 00:56:54.119
time I think oh somebody else no that

00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:56.880
was my dog

00:56:57.160 --> 00:57:01.440
oh that was a friend of mine your

00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.060
dog

00:57:03.060 --> 00:57:06.079
[Music]

00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:13.119
um the impulse to speak came from we

00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:17.160
slip into the old chair we sat at at the

00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:20.920
dinner table we slip

00:57:21.720 --> 00:57:25.200
into that way or that role or however

00:57:25.200 --> 00:57:26.359
you want

00:57:26.359 --> 00:57:29.760
to determine it and I think that this

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:31.839
idea

00:57:31.839 --> 00:57:35.359
of the new human and individuation has

00:57:35.359 --> 00:57:41.240
to do with not doing

00:57:41.799 --> 00:57:46.119
that so what I notice I've noticed over

00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:49.680
and over in the last hour

00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:52.760
is that in a world that doesn't look

00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:55.039
quite right it feels a little bit more

00:57:55.039 --> 00:57:57.520
right with Marie and Ray

00:57:57.520 --> 00:58:01.960
here just a little bit more

00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:04.760
right that's what I notice I'm noticing

00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:06.319
over and

00:58:06.319 --> 00:58:09.319
over

00:58:11.240 --> 00:58:15.520
um moving beyond being

00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:18.520
cute tonight I'm going to be lighting a

00:58:18.520 --> 00:58:22.079
couple of candles for

00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:25.359
Hanukkah

00:58:25.359 --> 00:58:27.079
and when I look at the world it doesn't

00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:29.839
look much different and I'll use your

00:58:29.839 --> 00:58:33.039
word Bonnie much different

00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:36.880
doesn't look much

00:58:40.799 --> 00:58:44.359
different so how easy is it for me to be

00:58:44.359 --> 00:58:47.839
the reserver The Observer and Reserve

00:58:47.839 --> 00:58:49.760
myself The

00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:53.240
Observer and allow time to just pass as

00:58:53.240 --> 00:58:56.720
an observer

00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:04.039
I have a deep feeling like my you new

00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:05.960
human is the

00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:08.559
rebellious

00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:12.039
side maybe knock that old chair over and

00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:15.200
find one that I really want to sit in at

00:59:15.200 --> 00:59:17.799
the dinner

00:59:19.720 --> 00:59:23.160
table all this is coming out of what

00:59:23.160 --> 00:59:26.640
maddalena brought

00:59:29.799 --> 00:59:32.799
the alliance

00:59:32.799 --> 00:59:36.319
being from absolute difference and your

00:59:36.319 --> 00:59:37.960
response

00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.880
Bonnie about in relationship there's

00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:43.240
tension and

00:59:43.240 --> 00:59:47.720
resistance and it seems to me

00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:51.799
that what I sensed and what I feel in

00:59:51.799 --> 00:59:55.640
myself is a judgment of that

00:59:55.640 --> 00:59:59.240
tension rather

00:59:59.960 --> 01:00:04.480
than this satisfaction that emerges from

01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:08.240
the tension the Vigor and the Vitality

01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:11.640
that's there and what can we do to bring

01:00:11.640 --> 01:00:14.160
that into this world that doesn't look

01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:17.720
quite right

01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:26.160
yet not getting sucked into to just

01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:29.559
doing the good or just thinking that's

01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:32.640
bad somewhere in the middle living in

01:00:32.640 --> 01:00:35.039
that

01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:37.559
tension and I think that relates to what

01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:39.760
freebe was talking about you know

01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:42.240
where's the

01:00:49.319 --> 01:00:53.559
novel yeah I feel better having spoken

01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:56.520
this

01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:02.920
yeah and just to Ping off of that is I

01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:05.039
love what the what's attributed to the

01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:08.119
Buddha said about the the violin string

01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:12.240
right he said to about the stringing a

01:01:12.240 --> 01:01:17.039
bow and a liar let's say to too Tau and

01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:20.200
she will break too loose and she will

01:01:20.200 --> 01:01:22.480
not

01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:26.440
sing

01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.599
Marie good well good I

01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:35.920
got got a barbecue Happening Here

01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:38.079
welcome home I I love the fact that Mar

01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:39.720
and Ray are back here and I really like

01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:42.880
the fact that I can tell there in

01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:45.640
Connecticut that makes me feel good our

01:01:45.640 --> 01:01:48.039
backdrop gives us

01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:51.799
away it's really good to be home and

01:01:51.799 --> 01:01:55.359
um yeah thank you

01:01:55.359 --> 01:02:00.240
um so David thank you for kind of um

01:02:00.240 --> 01:02:02.480
prompting me

01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:06.599
um because I I I wasn't I don't think I

01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:08.640
was going to speak up with what's kind

01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:11.039
of on my mind because I have no idea how

01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:15.760
to talk about it um

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:20.760
but um you kind of

01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:25.000
um opened it up so listening to the

01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:26.760
last

01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:31.559
um uh recording from the the the first

01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:34.279
course of this module the thing that

01:02:34.279 --> 01:02:37.400
really kind of stuck with me it was a

01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:40.400
bit of a gut punch when Bonnie you

01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:44.359
talked about this sort of like part of

01:02:44.359 --> 01:02:50.079
what it is to be um a human in this time

01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:52.920
is that we don't get to like wrap up the

01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.880
story neatly on our death

01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:57.680
bed

01:02:57.680 --> 01:03:02.119
and that impulse like we we're in my

01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:03.319
case I

01:03:03.319 --> 01:03:07.359
can um maybe this is true for for many

01:03:07.359 --> 01:03:11.559
but like that I'm enough of a time when

01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:15.000
that sort of I have that impulse to want

01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.799
to do that and then to have that pulled

01:03:17.799 --> 01:03:19.520
out from under

01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:23.279
me um but

01:03:23.279 --> 01:03:27.520
then coming home

01:03:27.680 --> 01:03:33.640
um I have um been in a few conversations

01:03:33.640 --> 01:03:39.240
around so I'll go there um Israel

01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:41.520
Palestine and

01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:44.640
what's what's happening in that part of

01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:49.640
the world and so I was provoked to go

01:03:49.640 --> 01:03:53.599
back and to review some some research

01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:55.559
that I did

01:03:55.559 --> 01:04:00.200
um I actually wrote a dissertation about

01:04:00.200 --> 01:04:03.960
a um what could be

01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:07.039
described as a burining peace movement

01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:09.880
in uh amongst

01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:14.240
Palestinians and Israelis and the thing

01:04:14.240 --> 01:04:16.480
the notion that I was really on to at

01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.799
the time I had to go back and revisit

01:04:18.799 --> 01:04:23.400
this was this ability that kept showing

01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:25.640
up in people's experiences and I was

01:04:25.640 --> 01:04:27.799
observing it this ability to be able to

01:04:27.799 --> 01:04:29.920
hold attention

01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.920
between mending

01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:36.839
relationships and amending

01:04:36.839 --> 01:04:40.640
injustices and that just felt

01:04:40.640 --> 01:04:43.559
like something important that was

01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:47.000
emerging in our world and that it was

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:49.480
like yeah I had I had my finger on the

01:04:49.480 --> 01:04:53.160
pulse of that and

01:04:53.160 --> 01:04:54.960
um

01:04:54.960 --> 01:05:00.880
and I I I just so I went back to revisit

01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:05.960
some of what I'd written and and it all

01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:07.680
felt

01:05:07.680 --> 01:05:11.799
so like just overrun by events like it

01:05:11.799 --> 01:05:14.000
didn't have the poignancy

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:17.760
anymore and so I was back to that kind

01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:19.000
of gut

01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:23.720
punch of like wanting to tell a story

01:05:23.720 --> 01:05:26.079
about

01:05:26.200 --> 01:05:29.119
where where we were headed and wanting

01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.520
to have my finger on the pulse of

01:05:31.520 --> 01:05:36.039
something that was emergent that was

01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:39.680
promising and hopeful and filled with

01:05:39.680 --> 01:05:42.279
goodness and kind of

01:05:42.279 --> 01:05:46.799
like just not being able to hold that

01:05:46.799 --> 01:05:50.079
and so I've been sitting with that kind

01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:52.240
of

01:05:52.240 --> 01:05:55.960
um it sort of of like a sense of

01:05:55.960 --> 01:06:01.079
emptiness in the last few days just

01:06:02.520 --> 01:06:04.880
like something like that similar

01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.000
happened to me um and I think you should

01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.839
Revitalize it because some of these

01:06:10.839 --> 01:06:15.480
things that we were doing years ago we

01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:22.359
knew were were important works of uh of

01:06:22.359 --> 01:06:27.359
wisdom let's say um and I and and I

01:06:27.359 --> 01:06:29.760
think it's more timely now I mean I

01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:31.599
would just I would try to resurrect of

01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:33.440
course you have to try you have to

01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:36.079
rewrite it a little bit but what you're

01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:39.200
noticing is the core the core Insight in

01:06:39.200 --> 01:06:42.520
your work is is still really strong and

01:06:42.520 --> 01:06:47.400
yes just gets wiped underneath like so

01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:49.559
much has gone by and then it's still

01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:52.680
sitting there and you know I'm still

01:06:52.680 --> 01:06:54.520
writing about whitee head

01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:57.920
and he wrote 120 years ago and and I

01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:00.279
think

01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:05.079
that so there's a both end yeah you're

01:07:05.079 --> 01:07:07.319
probably not going

01:07:07.319 --> 01:07:09.640
to you know I think you should resurrect

01:07:09.640 --> 01:07:11.839
it if it lives in your imagination

01:07:11.839 --> 01:07:14.279
strongly uh for the time because I think

01:07:14.279 --> 01:07:16.480
people it's just like this course you

01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:18.000
couldn't I couldn't teach this course

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.680
even to my Master's uh students that

01:07:20.680 --> 01:07:22.720
they didn't have the right

01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:24.680
attention um

01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:28.920
but not to think you know not to expect

01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:32.799
some kind of amazing Deliverance

01:07:32.799 --> 01:07:35.640
because there's you know we're we're on

01:07:35.640 --> 01:07:39.680
the fast track a lot of moving parts and

01:07:39.680 --> 01:07:41.880
we need to contribute what we have to

01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:45.359
contribute and

01:07:45.359 --> 01:07:48.160
um um one of the good things is is that

01:07:48.160 --> 01:07:50.119
the ideas are getting are getting

01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:52.559
capitalized on by a lot of people so

01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:53.920
you're not going to get the same kind

01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:56.760
kind of attribution back when you wrote

01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.440
that you probably thought oh then I read

01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:00.760
a book I get attribution you know we

01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:02.559
don't get attribution in that kind of

01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:08.119
stuff anymore um um but these these

01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:10.880
essential distinctions and the work we

01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:14.720
were doing um back then I think people

01:08:14.720 --> 01:08:18.279
only start to hear them

01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:21.880
now um so I sent this white paper that I

01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:23.839
wrote after we did all those that re

01:08:23.839 --> 01:08:26.159
search and group practice remember back

01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:29.199
then and I had I had a 60-page white

01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:32.719
paper that never got finished and I was

01:08:32.719 --> 01:08:36.520
I was rereading it um the last couple of

01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:40.319
days and I sent it to um uh Sam Hines

01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:45.199
and Ria backck um and it's

01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:48.359
like they finally like kind of

01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:50.839
understand some of the things that were

01:08:50.839 --> 01:08:53.440
were going on back then it was 15 years

01:08:53.440 --> 01:08:55.359
ago

01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:57.440
and you know

01:08:57.440 --> 01:09:00.759
so I just think like between ITC the

01:09:00.759 --> 01:09:05.000
mellin courses like we were doing a lot

01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.600
of lot of significant

01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:11.319
stuff and you're right it just got

01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:14.319
like black it got it got stuck by the

01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:15.920
black hole and maybe this the white hole

01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:19.440
was coming coming back so um we don't

01:09:19.440 --> 01:09:22.279
have to completely recreate the wheel so

01:09:22.279 --> 01:09:24.960
you might want to think about

01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:27.640
upgrading the same idea but of course

01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:29.279
you know if you read it you'll notice

01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:30.880
that

01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:33.960
there's it's it reads like it it's not

01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:35.920
contemporary you just have to upgrade it

01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:38.080
but the the fundamental principles we

01:09:38.080 --> 01:09:41.199
are working with were very important

01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:46.120
so thank you for that Bonnie and there

01:09:46.120 --> 01:09:49.679
there's um you're affirming this this

01:09:49.679 --> 01:09:51.480
sort

01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:54.960
of I don't know it's like a

01:09:54.960 --> 01:10:00.040
something that is um has

01:10:00.040 --> 01:10:04.239
been I felt aggravated or it's like

01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:06.040
there's there's there's a piece that I

01:10:06.040 --> 01:10:09.360
don't have figured out in this yeah and

01:10:09.360 --> 01:10:13.600
and it was just yesterday like the um I

01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:18.040
spoke with um with someone who told me

01:10:18.040 --> 01:10:22.640
about this one woman that was kind of

01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:24.880
the

01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:30.880
um she was this project that I looked at

01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:33.480
um she was sort of like

01:10:33.480 --> 01:10:37.000
the this the centerpiece of it you know

01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:39.679
like she held it all together because of

01:10:39.679 --> 01:10:42.600
how she could hold that tension that I

01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:50.280
talked about and um this was um back

01:10:50.280 --> 01:10:53.040
in you know when I first came across the

01:10:53.040 --> 01:10:55.080
project it was was right before the

01:10:55.080 --> 01:10:57.920
second inata the second inata challenged

01:10:57.920 --> 01:11:00.520
everything and then it's only gotten

01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:02.159
worse the

01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:04.520
situation and

01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:09.280
the um the news I had about this person

01:11:09.280 --> 01:11:11.239
is that she got to where she couldn't

01:11:11.239 --> 01:11:13.040
hold that tension

01:11:13.040 --> 01:11:16.880
anymore right it just it it had been

01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:19.960
overrun so much by events that she

01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:25.560
couldn't hold the um the the

01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:31.960
mending um of of relationships in good

01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:36.920
faith given the the need for amending

01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:39.639
injustices it's just like the Schism was

01:11:39.639 --> 01:11:42.719
too big so it's like there's something

01:11:42.719 --> 01:11:45.800
else in the story

01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:50.000
that like what you know what what is it

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:53.760
like going back to your gradient about

01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:56.880
um relations potency advance and

01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.440
intimacy like what is it to be a

01:12:00.440 --> 01:12:04.440
Palestinian in the in Gaza at at this

01:12:04.440 --> 01:12:08.120
juncture in time and what what

01:12:08.120 --> 01:12:11.400
is I mean I can't even pretend to know

01:12:11.400 --> 01:12:13.760
but what to hold

01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:16.719
for in relationship with that in terms

01:12:16.719 --> 01:12:18.440
of what to look

01:12:18.440 --> 01:12:21.400
for yeah and I think that the world is a

01:12:21.400 --> 01:12:23.880
much different place like the Gaza the

01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:26.320
Palestinians in Gaza don't just live in

01:12:26.320 --> 01:12:29.440
Gaza anymore they live on social

01:12:29.440 --> 01:12:33.560
media it's just it's just you know it's

01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:36.159
just impossible to track or to know

01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:39.199
what's going I mean it's just half the

01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:41.600
battle is is in the virtual

01:12:41.600 --> 01:12:44.639
world and um the battle for public

01:12:44.639 --> 01:12:47.199
opinion and the battle for fake news and

01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:50.320
real news it's so much of it is not even

01:12:50.320 --> 01:12:52.800
happening in Israel and Gaza it's

01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:56.159
happening on the internet so much of the

01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:59.760
world's response and and and ideation

01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:05.360
and all this is just how how

01:13:05.360 --> 01:13:11.440
much uh how how how you know so when I

01:13:11.440 --> 01:13:14.280
talk about like the the LI limiting

01:13:14.280 --> 01:13:18.080
Quantum Of Human Action moral action is

01:13:18.080 --> 01:13:20.000
the personto person

01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.360
experience people are are you know not

01:13:24.360 --> 01:13:27.280
even it's so disembodied everything is

01:13:27.280 --> 01:13:30.239
so virtual now a big big big part of the

01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.120
event is not in the

01:13:33.120 --> 01:13:36.199
event um and I would suspect that's part

01:13:36.199 --> 01:13:40.280
of what you know overwhelmed this person

01:13:40.280 --> 01:13:42.320
I have to take a little bit of a break

01:13:42.320 --> 01:13:44.320
because I'm making my mom a turkey and

01:13:44.320 --> 01:13:47.040
it has to come out but go ahead and

01:13:47.040 --> 01:13:50.120
carry on conversations and then I'll be

01:13:50.120 --> 01:13:51.920
right

01:13:51.920 --> 01:13:55.000
back sorry about about the bad planning

01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:56.800
you mean you can't do it like I'm doing

01:13:56.800 --> 01:13:58.480
it while I grill my

01:13:58.480 --> 01:14:01.800
chicken yeah I wish I could but I'll be

01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:04.880
right back just keep talking it's I I'll

01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:07.280
watch the

01:14:14.280 --> 01:14:16.800
recording unfortunately I'm going to

01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:20.679
have to leave too I I'm like an hour

01:14:20.679 --> 01:14:24.199
late for something else but I just

01:14:24.199 --> 01:14:28.480
couldn't not come so I'll just be bad in

01:14:28.480 --> 01:14:30.830
both

01:14:30.830 --> 01:14:32.760
[Laughter]

01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:35.760
ecologies

01:14:52.280 --> 01:14:55.280
hi

01:14:58.159 --> 01:15:00.880
can I respond

01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.480
Marie yeah

01:15:03.480 --> 01:15:05.840
totally well I think that what Bonnie

01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:11.000
was referring to is very true that the

01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.679
experience in the Middle East now is not

01:15:13.679 --> 01:15:15.120
just in the Middle

01:15:15.120 --> 01:15:18.000
East that's good news bad news and the

01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:21.280
good news part of that is we are now a

01:15:21.280 --> 01:15:24.560
small circle of people who are are at

01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:28.920
least a bit more conscious based on your

01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:32.040
observation I now have amend and menend

01:15:32.040 --> 01:15:34.760
whatever that means to me I can add that

01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:38.880
to the soup I happen to agree with you

01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:40.840
there's no way for me to understand

01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:44.800
what's going on there there is no way

01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:47.639
for me to understand it I'm a white

01:15:47.639 --> 01:15:51.080
privileged Jewish man from Southern

01:15:51.080 --> 01:15:54.679
California I'm very privil

01:15:54.679 --> 01:15:59.120
prived and my

01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:02.080
heart remembers the

01:16:02.080 --> 01:16:07.679
Holocaust sees the similarities now and

01:16:07.679 --> 01:16:10.679
wants a world that's different than that

01:16:10.679 --> 01:16:13.320
when I light my candles tonight I want

01:16:13.320 --> 01:16:16.239
to do that from a from

01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:20.400
a a place that I feel like a matter in

01:16:20.400 --> 01:16:21.520
all of

01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:26.159
that not just the I'm lighting a

01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:30.600
light and so being with you now heartens

01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:35.120
me being with Justin and Anna and

01:16:35.120 --> 01:16:39.480
Charlie's Chicken heartens

01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:46.239
me and it's not just that one woman

01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:50.199
anymore that's my point it used to be

01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:53.159
people holding space now it's people

01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:56.800
people holding or persons holding space

01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:00.400
now it's people holding

01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:25.000
space

01:17:26.120 --> 01:17:31.040
just a quick hello I'm glad to be back

01:17:31.040 --> 01:17:32.960
came back really sick so I'm just kind

01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:35.600
of sitting here and wondering what's

01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:37.800
going

01:17:39.040 --> 01:17:43.440
on I'm glad to see all of you

01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:49.679
again oh and Maria it was a pleasure to

01:17:49.679 --> 01:17:51.880
listen to you talk about because we've

01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:53.920
been talking about

01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:56.760
your reading rereading your dissertation

01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:58.920
and actually refining what what it was

01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:01.159
that you found in the

01:18:01.159 --> 01:18:03.360
research and bringing that kind of

01:18:03.360 --> 01:18:06.520
complexity to Bear it was

01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:10.520
really um good to listen to you um talk

01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:13.320
about it in this

01:18:19.159 --> 01:18:23.159
context I want to um come in with that

01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:26.120
comment um that you just made about

01:18:26.120 --> 01:18:29.320
Maria Marie's uh dissertation I wrote a

01:18:29.320 --> 01:18:32.440
thesis at the end of um my time in

01:18:32.440 --> 01:18:37.000
theology school and I wrote it

01:18:37.480 --> 01:18:41.679
to pull together all that I had learned

01:18:41.679 --> 01:18:44.080
all that I had become it was a very

01:18:44.080 --> 01:18:45.600
personal

01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:50.560
integration and edgy and

01:18:50.679 --> 01:18:54.360
um and I think that it also has

01:18:54.360 --> 01:18:57.000
significance and it feels so dated but I

01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:58.280
also think

01:18:58.280 --> 01:19:01.639
it's alive now and maybe like Bonnie

01:19:01.639 --> 01:19:03.960
said that there'd be more people that

01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:07.560
might be able to hear it now than back

01:19:07.560 --> 01:19:10.600
then I don't know but I think it's an

01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:14.040
interesting thing

01:19:17.400 --> 01:19:21.159
to you poured your heart and your and

01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:23.440
your whole being and your

01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:28.719
your uh desire to make sense into

01:19:28.719 --> 01:19:35.719
something and um as I did and

01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:41.080
um I don't know it's a really

01:19:41.080 --> 01:19:43.560
interesting thing that maybe it's the

01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:46.639
the aliveness of that deep

01:19:46.639 --> 01:19:51.320
engagement has more to

01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:54.840
give

01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:03.239
hello everyone good to see everyone it's

01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:06.239
been a very enjoyable time I've got a

01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:08.880
bit of a flowy thing as well so I tend

01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:12.040
to cough a lot when I talk so I won't

01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:17.639
talk very long I wanted to thank Marie

01:20:17.639 --> 01:20:21.120
for a distinction or a comment that you

01:20:21.120 --> 01:20:25.000
made because I had fully understood this

01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:26.520
and now I think I've got a better

01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:29.560
insight into it we have um in New

01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:32.000
Zealand our indigenous people the Mari

01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.679
they haven't been here for like the

01:20:34.679 --> 01:20:37.920
Aborigines have been I don't know 60,000

01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:40.239
years in Australia Mar have only been

01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:44.040
here a few hundred I think maybe 500 um

01:20:44.040 --> 01:20:46.960
however there was a lot of Injustice for

01:20:46.960 --> 01:20:49.560
them um a lot of things happened in the

01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:51.600
land Wars and they got land taken off

01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:54.239
them and all sorts of stuff but there

01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:57.960
was there has been a tribunal setup um

01:20:57.960 --> 01:21:00.960
the white Tangi tribunal and some land

01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:04.679
has been returned to various e or tribes

01:21:04.679 --> 01:21:07.239
and also Financial

01:21:07.239 --> 01:21:10.040
contribution so there's a sense in which

01:21:10.040 --> 01:21:13.440
some of the injustices have been

01:21:13.440 --> 01:21:17.520
addressed and helped and however what I

01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:21.639
was concerned about at the moment was

01:21:21.639 --> 01:21:25.440
that I we have a new government and it

01:21:25.440 --> 01:21:27.040
would appear that what they're going to

01:21:27.040 --> 01:21:29.880
do or what they want to do it's very so

01:21:29.880 --> 01:21:33.040
it would be Loosely called rightwing um

01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:35.800
what they want to do is take away many

01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:38.120
of the not the land or the money but

01:21:38.120 --> 01:21:42.320
many of the other um improvements you

01:21:42.320 --> 01:21:44.880
could say or more rights that Mari have

01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:49.600
gained um and I was concerned very

01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:51.679
concerned about how that's going to

01:21:51.679 --> 01:21:53.480
divide our country and there'll be them

01:21:53.480 --> 01:21:55.120
and us and the goodies and the baddies

01:21:55.120 --> 01:21:58.360
and all of that um and I thought you

01:21:58.360 --> 01:21:59.920
know relationships are going to get

01:21:59.920 --> 01:22:02.600
worse but what I realized when you were

01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:06.040
speaking Marie that the

01:22:06.040 --> 01:22:09.639
relationships between groups in our

01:22:09.639 --> 01:22:12.800
country of Mari and nonari especially

01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:16.320
those who want all these changes and

01:22:16.320 --> 01:22:20.639
made they actually haven't been um

01:22:20.639 --> 01:22:23.159
addressed at all there isn't really good

01:22:23.159 --> 01:22:25.040
relationships at all there's nothing

01:22:25.040 --> 01:22:29.480
there that's been attempted and I just I

01:22:29.480 --> 01:22:32.040
think I heard you say that well you were

01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.719
saying relationships had possibly

01:22:33.719 --> 01:22:36.520
improved but I'm just

01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:38.960
wondering I think it will come down to

01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:41.000
that I think it's not Justice it's not

01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:44.600
the Injustice thing anymore it's it is

01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:48.199
this next need for the relationships

01:22:48.199 --> 01:22:49.600
within our

01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:53.560
country to improve amongst people people

01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:56.320
while holding the diversity we have a

01:22:56.320 --> 01:22:58.560
lot of diversity and I think that's cool

01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:01.960
and we need to do that um and there

01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:05.080
diversity between the various tribes in

01:23:05.080 --> 01:23:08.120
the ewi as well and so that that's fine

01:23:08.120 --> 01:23:11.040
as well but I'm just yeah it's just this

01:23:11.040 --> 01:23:13.040
whole thing around relationships I just

01:23:13.040 --> 01:23:16.600
like oh that's where we need to go so

01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:18.679
thank you for that and do you have

01:23:18.679 --> 01:23:21.080
anything else you'd like to add to that

01:23:21.080 --> 01:23:24.480
to that for me

01:23:26.360 --> 01:23:29.760
um thanks for the invitation

01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:34.480
Susan um I could just maybe I guess take

01:23:34.480 --> 01:23:38.040
the to elaborate a little bit of like it

01:23:38.040 --> 01:23:41.120
it it can be a strategy for social

01:23:41.120 --> 01:23:44.239
change and there it's like you know

01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:46.120
sometimes it can be called like

01:23:46.120 --> 01:23:48.159
resolution versus

01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:51.400
Revolution is sometimes the words that

01:23:51.400 --> 01:23:55.840
are used to kind of s sum it up like um

01:23:55.840 --> 01:24:00.199
that tension or if it's if it is about

01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:02.400
building relationships there's and

01:24:02.400 --> 01:24:04.239
there's been a conflict there's usually

01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:07.679
some amount of healing that needs to to

01:24:07.679 --> 01:24:11.639
go on that's the amending of

01:24:11.639 --> 01:24:14.360
relationships and and so that's its own

01:24:14.360 --> 01:24:18.000
thing versus then repairing the

01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:19.880
injustices

01:24:19.880 --> 01:24:23.520
which and and usually we lean in One

01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:27.440
Direction we have more so than the other

01:24:27.440 --> 01:24:30.400
we have sort of a a favorite way that

01:24:30.400 --> 01:24:32.280
we're more comfortable with but it's

01:24:32.280 --> 01:24:34.880
that ability to be able to recognize

01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:37.760
that both are important I think is the

01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:39.080
thing that I

01:24:39.080 --> 01:24:40.800
was

01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:45.239
um uh yeah had had been deeply attuned

01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.320
to I don't know if that helps is that is

01:24:48.320 --> 01:24:51.119
that useful no no no that helps a lot

01:24:51.119 --> 01:24:52.960
because there's going to be a lot of of

01:24:52.960 --> 01:24:56.080
um action by Mari in New Zealand over

01:24:56.080 --> 01:24:58.480
the next three years and it's going to

01:24:58.480 --> 01:25:02.000
some of it yeah I just really like what

01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:04.360
you're saying of the two well more than

01:25:04.360 --> 01:25:07.400
two many directions that it can go and I

01:25:07.400 --> 01:25:11.040
can just see the possibility of it only

01:25:11.040 --> 01:25:15.040
going one way and yeah and I I feel

01:25:15.040 --> 01:25:17.360
quite passionate about the whole area

01:25:17.360 --> 01:25:20.480
anyway and I was wondering about my own

01:25:20.480 --> 01:25:23.600
involvement and and that so thank you

01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:26.280
for that cuz yeah it's really cool

01:25:26.280 --> 01:25:29.239
actually what you had to say thank

01:25:29.239 --> 01:25:33.280
you I I actually also

01:25:33.280 --> 01:25:36.040
might have a little something I don't

01:25:36.040 --> 01:25:39.080
know I'm just reading

01:25:39.080 --> 01:25:42.840
um um James ks's finite and infinite

01:25:42.840 --> 01:25:45.360
games and it's a like honestly it's a

01:25:45.360 --> 01:25:46.719
really good book it's a short little

01:25:46.719 --> 01:25:49.040
book but it's just like you can read

01:25:49.040 --> 01:25:51.719
like a paragraph an hour and it's just

01:25:51.719 --> 01:25:54.239
you know it's just really good um but he

01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:55.639
talks

01:25:55.639 --> 01:26:00.159
about how oh if I am I going to remember

01:26:00.159 --> 01:26:03.520
this so he talks about kind of how the

01:26:03.520 --> 01:26:06.719
difference between

01:26:06.719 --> 01:26:10.600
how a calls them like you know infinite

01:26:10.600 --> 01:26:13.400
players or finite players kind of go

01:26:13.400 --> 01:26:16.080
about things

01:26:16.080 --> 01:26:19.159
and finite oh I'm not going to remember

01:26:19.159 --> 01:26:21.199
this finite

01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:23.520
players

01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:26.080
one form of that is

01:26:26.080 --> 01:26:29.800
a is what you're maybe talking about in

01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:33.800
one side of it um where it's not a

01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:36.880
revolution but like a rebellion and that

01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:40.080
kind of requires they're still going

01:26:40.080 --> 01:26:42.960
against something some boundary some

01:26:42.960 --> 01:26:45.080
division that it

01:26:45.080 --> 01:26:46.240
requires

01:26:46.240 --> 01:26:47.560
[Music]

01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:49.320
um a

01:26:49.320 --> 01:26:52.239
division whereas the infinite players

01:26:52.239 --> 01:26:53.800
are people

01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:58.880
who you know they it's more about oh

01:26:58.880 --> 01:27:02.000
god um it's more

01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:04.880
about it's it's not reacting against

01:27:04.880 --> 01:27:07.880
something it's it's trying to yeah I

01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:11.719
guess you know bring things together and

01:27:11.719 --> 01:27:14.159
continue

01:27:14.159 --> 01:27:16.199
continue oh

01:27:16.199 --> 01:27:18.679
God I don't know I don't think I got it

01:27:18.679 --> 01:27:21.600
I don't got it I lost it but something

01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:22.960
in that

01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:27.760
something in bringing together versus

01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:31.600
reactively fighting against something

01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:35.000
like that but yeah I don't

01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:37.760
know but good book recommend

01:27:37.760 --> 01:27:41.600
it so this is a good a perfect segue to

01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:44.639
uh what I wanted to share my screen and

01:27:44.639 --> 01:27:46.800
talk

01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:51.040
about and maybe

01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:53.300
uh

01:27:53.300 --> 01:27:55.600
[Music]

01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:59.320
wait wait wait um because this is an

01:27:59.320 --> 01:28:01.920
interesting this is exactly the question

01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:04.760
that we're going to go

01:28:04.760 --> 01:28:07.760
to

01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:11.639
um all right so it's at the end of this

01:28:11.639 --> 01:28:14.679
kind of crazy thing

01:28:14.679 --> 01:28:18.400
here uh can I make this

01:28:18.400 --> 01:28:21.360
bigger oh yes it's coming right at you

01:28:21.360 --> 01:28:23.040
here we go

01:28:23.040 --> 01:28:26.760
but now I can't okay so we're when we

01:28:26.760 --> 01:28:28.239
talk about the new

01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:33.239
human um we can also uh think of the new

01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:35.360
new human

01:28:35.360 --> 01:28:38.119
Collective

01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:42.119
um and so um this is

01:28:42.119 --> 01:28:46.440
some uh work that I did that predicts

01:28:46.440 --> 01:28:50.760
something and uh maybe this has

01:28:50.760 --> 01:28:53.880
something to do with what we're talking

01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:57.679
about I just want to put that there okay

01:28:57.679 --> 01:28:59.719
so

01:28:59.719 --> 01:29:03.080
um so we're talking about the new human

01:29:03.080 --> 01:29:05.760
as all of us the whole

01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:11.679
Collective and um we're looking at

01:29:11.960 --> 01:29:15.040
these you know classic labels premodern

01:29:15.040 --> 01:29:17.080
modern postmodern metamodern and then

01:29:17.080 --> 01:29:18.040
the new

01:29:18.040 --> 01:29:22.000
human um and we're looking at the world

01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:25.480
building activities the characteristic

01:29:25.480 --> 01:29:30.600
and then how the self structure fits in

01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:34.239
this larger human

01:29:34.239 --> 01:29:37.440
identity and I think if I go slow enough

01:29:37.440 --> 01:29:41.800
and good enough job uh you can see why

01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:43.400
what we are just talking about has

01:29:43.400 --> 01:29:46.119
something to do with this okay so these

01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:49.480
these words are Hana aren's work words

01:29:49.480 --> 01:29:52.520
and she said in the premodern era

01:29:52.520 --> 01:29:55.159
uh we built our worlds like the animals

01:29:55.159 --> 01:29:57.199
do through our

01:29:57.199 --> 01:30:02.480
labor so eating hunting having

01:30:02.480 --> 01:30:04.920
children uh finding

01:30:04.920 --> 01:30:07.880
shelter losing shelter build rebuilding

01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:10.320
shelter eating some more hunting right

01:30:10.320 --> 01:30:15.520
so this is what um we would call Labor

01:30:15.520 --> 01:30:19.280
we didn't build lasting egg this is just

01:30:19.280 --> 01:30:23.960
pre uh what is that typal kokei like we

01:30:23.960 --> 01:30:27.000
didn't build lasting things we lived in

01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:31.760
caves and and um and structures that

01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:33.600
were not you know

01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:36.639
overbuilt um and the characteristic of

01:30:36.639 --> 01:30:38.880
the how the self in the

01:30:38.880 --> 01:30:41.920
individual um relate is how we are the

01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:44.560
same Nature's rhythms and of course we

01:30:44.560 --> 01:30:47.600
could look out at other animals and

01:30:47.600 --> 01:30:50.280
really see very clearly that we are very

01:30:50.280 --> 01:30:52.400
much like them because

01:30:52.400 --> 01:30:57.119
the the wolf and the elk and the coyote

01:30:57.119 --> 01:30:59.880
and the fish are doing the same thing

01:30:59.880 --> 01:31:03.239
right cyclical SE seasonal Nature's

01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:06.440
rhythms um they built their worlds and

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:09.960
their niches by the their own labor and

01:31:09.960 --> 01:31:12.320
the self structure was constituted by

01:31:12.320 --> 01:31:14.440
the collective right so there's no sense

01:31:14.440 --> 01:31:17.800
of the individual yourself was

01:31:17.800 --> 01:31:19.880
constituted pre-constituted by the

01:31:19.880 --> 01:31:23.320
collective we see this um still today in

01:31:23.320 --> 01:31:25.520
like Asian societies like typically

01:31:25.520 --> 01:31:27.360
Japanese societies although everybody's

01:31:27.360 --> 01:31:29.679
getting more modern and so this sense

01:31:29.679 --> 01:31:31.159
that you're not an

01:31:31.159 --> 01:31:35.679
individual um Ubuntu the you know um

01:31:35.679 --> 01:31:38.560
this this this way of seeing the

01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:41.520
relationship of the self and the

01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:44.800
collective then we get to the modern era

01:31:44.800 --> 01:31:49.480
um where um her term is now our world

01:31:49.480 --> 01:31:53.280
building activity is work so

01:31:53.280 --> 01:31:57.199
men and I use the term intentionally of

01:31:57.199 --> 01:32:01.280
significant genius could you know could

01:32:01.280 --> 01:32:03.679
organize people to build chatra and the

01:32:03.679 --> 01:32:09.000
Great Pyramids and and the um the the

01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:11.920
aqueducts in Rome and the roads and the

01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:15.800
this and that and so so these were these

01:32:15.800 --> 01:32:18.840
were World building activities we built

01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:22.000
these longlasting we erected mon

01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:27.520
Monumental things um and in this uh era

01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:29.440
the modern it comes way into the modern

01:32:29.440 --> 01:32:33.119
era is how we are different so men of

01:32:33.119 --> 01:32:36.199
great genius and talent would stand out

01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:39.480
and Lead these huge projects uh Charles

01:32:39.480 --> 01:32:43.239
Sanders Pierce's um I think I said this

01:32:43.239 --> 01:32:45.920
on the video his his father and uncle or

01:32:45.920 --> 01:32:49.440
something built Yale Harvard and

01:32:49.440 --> 01:32:52.239
Princeton which is compl completely

01:32:52.239 --> 01:32:54.880
overdetermined like a few group of

01:32:54.880 --> 01:32:57.280
people of great genius and talent the

01:32:57.280 --> 01:33:01.760
founding fathers could overdetermine the

01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:04.719
collective this is the great work

01:33:04.719 --> 01:33:07.159
project of the of

01:33:07.159 --> 01:33:11.560
modernity and so the self structure was

01:33:11.560 --> 01:33:13.760
um for these people most the people were

01:33:13.760 --> 01:33:16.040
still here but for these people the

01:33:16.040 --> 01:33:18.119
emerging self structure was the Locust

01:33:18.119 --> 01:33:21.320
of ageny that constitutes the collective

01:33:21.320 --> 01:33:23.600
we come to America we're gonna make

01:33:23.600 --> 01:33:25.280
America

01:33:25.280 --> 01:33:28.400
something right this era is can you all

01:33:28.400 --> 01:33:31.280
recognize this era is pasted uh Bill

01:33:31.280 --> 01:33:34.080
Gates goes into Africa to do something

01:33:34.080 --> 01:33:36.119
and he can't get it done

01:33:36.119 --> 01:33:39.040
because we have the postmodern era where

01:33:39.040 --> 01:33:41.400
the collective starts

01:33:41.400 --> 01:33:44.080
 right starts pushing back the

01:33:44.080 --> 01:33:46.520
big colonial projects aren't possible

01:33:46.520 --> 01:33:49.119
anymore Bill Gates can put a hundred

01:33:49.119 --> 01:33:52.119
billion dollars into Fusion energy and

01:33:52.119 --> 01:33:54.840
he can't get a license to to build it in

01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:58.239
the US because the Collective Now is

01:33:58.239 --> 01:34:01.719
rearing its power in the postmodern era

01:34:01.719 --> 01:34:04.440
does this make sense you C you can't

01:34:04.440 --> 01:34:06.560
these things can't be done anymore they

01:34:06.560 --> 01:34:08.280
just can't be

01:34:08.280 --> 01:34:11.080
done uh no matter how much we want to

01:34:11.080 --> 01:34:13.440
make America great again it gets not

01:34:13.440 --> 01:34:15.280
it's going to get sucked

01:34:15.280 --> 01:34:19.159
into uh the collective so hent called

01:34:19.159 --> 01:34:21.800
this action and when he she he she means

01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:24.239
by actions like what mean we mean by

01:34:24.239 --> 01:34:26.679
activism you go out into the public

01:34:26.679 --> 01:34:30.280
place you free speech you you you're in

01:34:30.280 --> 01:34:32.520
the polace you're arguing you're

01:34:32.520 --> 01:34:35.639
protesting you're you're you're having

01:34:35.639 --> 01:34:39.159
demonstrations you're the your the

01:34:39.159 --> 01:34:41.840
masses of people come together and

01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:43.760
they're not really self-organized

01:34:43.760 --> 01:34:45.320
because they don't have common

01:34:45.320 --> 01:34:47.560
grievances but they're all in their

01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:49.840
Rebellion they they they just won't have

01:34:49.840 --> 01:34:53.480
it right like you couldn't get covid to

01:34:53.480 --> 01:34:56.320
just pass easily in Canada and the

01:34:56.320 --> 01:34:57.800
United States doesn't matter if it's

01:34:57.800 --> 01:34:59.639
good for you or not good for you people

01:34:59.639 --> 01:35:01.400
just won't have it

01:35:01.400 --> 01:35:03.400
anymore and

01:35:03.400 --> 01:35:07.520
so um this is a postmodern era and the

01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:09.520
characteristic the question is how can

01:35:09.520 --> 01:35:11.840
we make a difference so you get the 60s

01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:15.800
and this whole whole feeling of activism

01:35:15.800 --> 01:35:18.560
of course we're post activist now as bio

01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:21.840
says but so this is now also slipping

01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:25.239
out um but the self structure was we

01:35:25.239 --> 01:35:27.320
imagined ourselves to be the locus of

01:35:27.320 --> 01:35:29.719
agency that changes the collective right

01:35:29.719 --> 01:35:31.360
we're going to change America we're

01:35:31.360 --> 01:35:33.520
going to change education we're going to

01:35:33.520 --> 01:35:35.560
change the Vietnam we're going to change

01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:38.360
the whole Collective effort so this is

01:35:38.360 --> 01:35:41.320
the age of activism and social justice

01:35:41.320 --> 01:35:43.760
and this also is slipping

01:35:43.760 --> 01:35:46.400
away so then you get the metamodern I

01:35:46.400 --> 01:35:48.440
don't know I just use this term because

01:35:48.440 --> 01:35:52.040
you know it's it's around and so this

01:35:52.040 --> 01:35:54.880
these and so there's something like meta

01:35:54.880 --> 01:35:59.880
action and what you see is because it's

01:35:59.880 --> 01:36:01.480
it's

01:36:01.480 --> 01:36:04.800
um self-reflexive and moving away from

01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:05.639
the

01:36:05.639 --> 01:36:08.800
activism um you you have this question

01:36:08.800 --> 01:36:10.560
come up how can I make a difference so

01:36:10.560 --> 01:36:12.400
you have the human potential movement

01:36:12.400 --> 01:36:16.159
how can I make a difference how can I

01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:18.760
serve this community so you have a

01:36:18.760 --> 01:36:22.800
contraction back to the self um so the

01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:24.199
self structure is a locus of

01:36:24.199 --> 01:36:26.360
transformation that evolves the self my

01:36:26.360 --> 01:36:30.520
own self so there's quite a bit of of

01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:32.840
contraction back into the individual

01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:34.480
that we like what like we see in the

01:36:34.480 --> 01:36:37.000
modern but we're

01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:39.400
not we're not fooling ourselves we're

01:36:39.400 --> 01:36:40.639
not going to transform ourselves and

01:36:40.639 --> 01:36:42.080
then go out and be the leader of the

01:36:42.080 --> 01:36:44.679
global world and change it we're very

01:36:44.679 --> 01:36:47.679
it's a it's a it's a contraction back to

01:36:47.679 --> 01:36:49.920
evolving the self does this make sense

01:36:49.920 --> 01:36:51.960
can you see this in your own life time

01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:53.840
one of the good things about things

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:56.159
going by moving really fast is you can

01:36:56.159 --> 01:36:58.320
be a historian just by watching what's

01:36:58.320 --> 01:37:02.119
going on um so so we're still you know

01:37:02.119 --> 01:37:04.639
we still have this is gone we still have

01:37:04.639 --> 01:37:07.320
to do labor machines are doing this now

01:37:07.320 --> 01:37:10.000
this is not possible in our world this

01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:12.320
is still happening but it's messy it

01:37:12.320 --> 01:37:16.159
doesn't seem to work um this is in our

01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:19.199
space in our big spaces the whole uh

01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:22.800
Retreat to the eye try to figure out not

01:37:22.800 --> 01:37:25.440
really in not really interested in the

01:37:25.440 --> 01:37:27.920
collective but what's the locus of

01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:30.280
transformation that can evolve the self

01:37:30.280 --> 01:37:33.560
ourselves now I

01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:36.679
predict and it's got big question marks

01:37:36.679 --> 01:37:38.719
here because it's just

01:37:38.719 --> 01:37:40.920
fuzzy um so we hear this word

01:37:40.920 --> 01:37:43.000
characteristic what wants to emerge so

01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:45.119
this is different and you see it comes

01:37:45.119 --> 01:37:49.239
it comes in this thing where you have it

01:37:49.239 --> 01:37:51.239
you you you no longer have the self

01:37:51.239 --> 01:37:53.440
pronoun you have it what wants to emerge

01:37:53.440 --> 01:37:57.840
it wants to emerge so it's a it's a it's

01:37:57.840 --> 01:38:00.239
a movement away from the self but not

01:38:00.239 --> 01:38:02.000
really toward the human Collective it's

01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:04.360
a much large larger cosmocentric

01:38:04.360 --> 01:38:06.190
question what what wants to

01:38:06.190 --> 01:38:07.360
[Music]

01:38:07.360 --> 01:38:10.199
emerge right so it's no longer

01:38:10.199 --> 01:38:14.239
contracted like how can I improve myself

01:38:14.239 --> 01:38:17.040
um it's it's again a much larger

01:38:17.040 --> 01:38:19.280
question but it's less anthropocentric

01:38:19.280 --> 01:38:22.719
and much more Cosmo

01:38:22.719 --> 01:38:25.800
logical um and then this is the self

01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:28.760
structure can I be Bodies In Space how

01:38:28.760 --> 01:38:31.440
does your self distort space can I be

01:38:31.440 --> 01:38:33.360
the Locust of

01:38:33.360 --> 01:38:35.480
transformation that doesn't change the

01:38:35.480 --> 01:38:37.679
collective I don't know where it wants

01:38:37.679 --> 01:38:40.480
to go I don't know what wants to

01:38:40.480 --> 01:38:43.360
emerge but can I be a catalyst that

01:38:43.360 --> 01:38:46.159
evolves the

01:38:46.719 --> 01:38:49.159
collective I don't know where it's going

01:38:49.159 --> 01:38:52.239
can't change it and so this is what we

01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:55.960
talk about Bodies In Space people have

01:38:55.960 --> 01:38:57.760
you know some people walk into a room

01:38:57.760 --> 01:39:01.040
and the whole conversation

01:39:01.040 --> 01:39:04.520
changes um it's we see it in our own

01:39:04.520 --> 01:39:06.920
group here like when David does his

01:39:06.920 --> 01:39:09.880
beautiful Recollections he shows up in a

01:39:09.880 --> 01:39:12.440
way that the collective the state of the

01:39:12.440 --> 01:39:15.960
collective the nature of the collective

01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:19.679
shifts so we no longer want to change

01:39:19.679 --> 01:39:21.920
the collective like we know know where

01:39:21.920 --> 01:39:24.480
we want to go we don't know what wants

01:39:24.480 --> 01:39:25.320
to

01:39:25.320 --> 01:39:29.159
emerge but can I be a kind of person in

01:39:29.159 --> 01:39:31.360
which these latent

01:39:31.360 --> 01:39:34.400
energies this intelligence that I am

01:39:34.400 --> 01:39:37.080
sure of in the system the fact that I'm

01:39:37.080 --> 01:39:40.239
in a space and I'm confident that

01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:42.400
there's a latent intelligence in the

01:39:42.400 --> 01:39:45.880
system that I'm talking to will evolve

01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:48.400
the collective so we're talking about an

01:39:48.400 --> 01:39:51.599
EMB body transformation in collect Ive

01:39:51.599 --> 01:39:55.560
space that doesn't you got to be careful

01:39:55.560 --> 01:39:57.719
if you want to change the collective

01:39:57.719 --> 01:39:59.800
then your Norms are going to be Norm

01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:02.880
imposed as imposed Norms on the

01:40:02.880 --> 01:40:05.560
collective that's not what this is

01:40:05.560 --> 01:40:08.199
saying this is my theory so I'm not

01:40:08.199 --> 01:40:11.199
saying it's tried and true but you can

01:40:11.199 --> 01:40:13.000
feel this

01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:16.639
in as we grapple with post activism and

01:40:16.639 --> 01:40:18.719
we grapple with the narcissism of the

01:40:18.719 --> 01:40:21.599
human potential movement and

01:40:21.599 --> 01:40:24.560
there's something like this I think

01:40:24.560 --> 01:40:28.320
latent in the system and on and on the

01:40:28.320 --> 01:40:35.360
horizon so um yeah that would be um what

01:40:35.360 --> 01:40:39.360
I'm putting out there as a

01:40:43.760 --> 01:40:46.000
hypothetical it reminds me of David's

01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:48.480
story of going into the school right he

01:40:48.480 --> 01:40:50.239
went in he didn't want to change

01:40:50.239 --> 01:40:52.199
anything you know know anything about

01:40:52.199 --> 01:40:54.119
like you could have said to them I don't

01:40:54.119 --> 01:40:56.960
know anything about you you people

01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:58.960
where' you come from you're like aliens

01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:01.840
or something yet you can show up in a

01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:04.719
certain way that has a positive

01:41:04.719 --> 01:41:07.280
evolutionary potential and you could

01:41:07.280 --> 01:41:10.040
feel that it was positive so that's

01:41:10.040 --> 01:41:14.520
different than than um you know showing

01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:16.280
up years ago you might have told a story

01:41:16.280 --> 01:41:18.639
and say let's never forget and then you

01:41:18.639 --> 01:41:21.880
know and all this framing of story and

01:41:21.880 --> 01:41:24.920
who's the vict you know this would be

01:41:24.920 --> 01:41:28.119
something we would do um years ago but

01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:31.119
there's something

01:41:31.119 --> 01:41:33.000
something

01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:35.440
novel I mean we've all worked hard

01:41:35.440 --> 01:41:37.800
because we've been bashed against the

01:41:37.800 --> 01:41:40.679
Rocks so many times that this doesn't

01:41:40.679 --> 01:41:43.040
work this doesn't work so this is

01:41:43.040 --> 01:41:47.679
something that um that I see is as the

01:41:47.679 --> 01:41:49.760
as the self identity changes the

01:41:49.760 --> 01:41:51.560
collective and the self

01:41:51.560 --> 01:41:53.440
understanding of its relationship to the

01:41:53.440 --> 01:41:57.119
collective is also is also changing so I

01:41:57.119 --> 01:41:59.280
don't know mar Just or if you if that

01:41:59.280 --> 01:42:03.639
makes sense does that ring a

01:42:08.400 --> 01:42:12.440
bell yes it has me

01:42:12.440 --> 01:42:16.040
um it has me

01:42:19.760 --> 01:42:22.760
thinking

01:42:51.440 --> 01:42:53.920
how about you Susan in your in your

01:42:53.920 --> 01:42:55.760
thinking

01:42:55.760 --> 01:42:59.400
about what you were talking

01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:02.840
about yeah thank you for that it was

01:43:02.840 --> 01:43:06.320
yeah um I think I mean I know the

01:43:06.320 --> 01:43:08.520
activist thing because I've been done

01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:12.040
there um but I can see

01:43:12.040 --> 01:43:15.840
that I I can see that maybe it's

01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:19.040
possible that that is going to reappear

01:43:19.040 --> 01:43:21.320
again here in the next three years that

01:43:21.320 --> 01:43:23.920
it's going to be I mean we've had some

01:43:23.920 --> 01:43:26.239
demonstrations um

01:43:26.239 --> 01:43:28.880
already um I'm just

01:43:28.880 --> 01:43:31.679
wondering like it matters a lot to me

01:43:31.679 --> 01:43:33.679
what these changes are being made by the

01:43:33.679 --> 01:43:35.880
government I don't like them I don't

01:43:35.880 --> 01:43:39.040
like that it's it's where it's going and

01:43:39.040 --> 01:43:42.960
what it's doing and what it's saying but

01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:45.760
obviously you know civil disobedience is

01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:49.239
an option but I I can

01:43:49.239 --> 01:43:51.920
see now like I know the return to the

01:43:51.920 --> 01:43:56.280
eye like what can I do I I get that

01:43:56.280 --> 01:44:00.000
um I suppose my question Bonnie is given

01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:02.000
what's going to arise or what I'm

01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:05.360
predicting will arise and when I see it

01:44:05.360 --> 01:44:08.719
arising where to be

01:44:08.719 --> 01:44:12.320
then is a it's a practical question how

01:44:12.320 --> 01:44:17.239
to participate then is the question um

01:44:17.239 --> 01:44:20.840
for someone like myself it's really easy

01:44:20.840 --> 01:44:23.719
to feel some sympathy and understanding

01:44:23.719 --> 01:44:28.280
for those who are in the activist phase

01:44:28.280 --> 01:44:30.880
I mean I recall that I I felt that it

01:44:30.880 --> 01:44:35.280
was you know that's what I wrote my um

01:44:35.280 --> 01:44:38.000
Masters on which was on civil

01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:40.280
disobedience the philosophy Department L

01:44:40.280 --> 01:44:43.400
me which was pretty cool but I I I can

01:44:43.400 --> 01:44:46.040
see we need to go to a new space and I

01:44:46.040 --> 01:44:49.560
just wondering I just really lik Marice

01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:52.599
referencing two relationships because

01:44:52.599 --> 01:44:56.360
these are not healed here I don't feel

01:44:56.360 --> 01:44:59.520
in in in this way and this is just going

01:44:59.520 --> 01:45:02.400
to I thought what we were doing what the

01:45:02.400 --> 01:45:05.360
governments by their actions is creating

01:45:05.360 --> 01:45:09.760
and Maria part of it

01:45:09.760 --> 01:45:13.599
um I thought it was just I just saw that

01:45:13.599 --> 01:45:15.040
it was just going to be them and us the

01:45:15.040 --> 01:45:16.679
goodies and the baddies and all of that

01:45:16.679 --> 01:45:18.320
stuff all over

01:45:18.320 --> 01:45:22.920
again but I just didn't truly understood

01:45:22.920 --> 01:45:25.960
and got that there's not there's been

01:45:25.960 --> 01:45:28.040
money given there's been apologies

01:45:28.040 --> 01:45:31.119
there's been retribution there's been a

01:45:31.119 --> 01:45:33.080
land return there's been all sorts of

01:45:33.080 --> 01:45:36.719
things done um but there just hasn't

01:45:36.719 --> 01:45:39.480
really been any healing of relationships

01:45:39.480 --> 01:45:42.880
and that's both sides Maru carry a lot

01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:46.520
of victim Hood God I hope this doesn't

01:45:46.520 --> 01:45:48.560
don't know where's this going this story

01:45:48.560 --> 01:45:51.159
um no no no where is this podcast

01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:54.560
um they carry a lot of victimhood

01:45:54.560 --> 01:45:58.880
um and that needs to be healed as

01:45:58.880 --> 01:46:03.239
well yeah anyway I I I'm not sure so I

01:46:03.239 --> 01:46:06.320
would say yeah so like if you walked

01:46:06.320 --> 01:46:09.639
into this situation with that in your

01:46:09.639 --> 01:46:11.840
body this thing this thing has to be

01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:13.920
healed first that would have a

01:46:13.920 --> 01:46:17.040
transformative power versus take one

01:46:17.040 --> 01:46:19.000
side of the other something really weird

01:46:19.000 --> 01:46:23.880
is happening and and if and and and so I

01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:25.920
watched something really weird is

01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:28.199
happening and I think part of I'm going

01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:30.480
to

01:46:30.599 --> 01:46:32.520
guess

01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:36.159
governments are co-opting activists the

01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:38.800
left liberal governments are co-opting

01:46:38.800 --> 01:46:41.360
activists I don't really understand

01:46:41.360 --> 01:46:42.880
it

01:46:42.880 --> 01:46:45.260
um but

01:46:45.260 --> 01:46:47.880
[Music]

01:46:47.880 --> 01:46:50.639
um this is something you know like black

01:46:50.639 --> 01:46:55.880
lives matters and and um and all this

01:46:55.880 --> 01:46:58.840
all this is being co-opted somehow by

01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:02.040
left liberal governments um and I think

01:47:02.040 --> 01:47:04.280
it's so the left liberals stay in power

01:47:04.280 --> 01:47:06.920
and they're not really

01:47:06.920 --> 01:47:11.040
threatened by the activists they're so

01:47:11.040 --> 01:47:15.400
far away from being threatened by them

01:47:15.400 --> 01:47:19.119
um so I saw something in on

01:47:19.119 --> 01:47:21.280
um um

01:47:21.280 --> 01:47:26.239
CNN or something that the uh president

01:47:26.239 --> 01:47:29.800
of Penn University Harvard University

01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:31.199
and another

01:47:31.199 --> 01:47:34.000
University were asked

01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:38.639
if speech on campus that called for the

01:47:38.639 --> 01:47:41.639
elimination the extermination of Jews

01:47:41.639 --> 01:47:44.679
was allowed on their

01:47:45.320 --> 01:47:49.560
campus and no one said absolutely not

01:47:49.560 --> 01:47:52.639
they all had Ed their bets they were all

01:47:52.639 --> 01:47:55.320
like well it depends what context and

01:47:55.320 --> 01:47:57.239
spe and that kind of speech in some

01:47:57.239 --> 01:48:00.320
context if it doesn't lead to violence

01:48:00.320 --> 01:48:04.679
and this was like what like there's some

01:48:04.679 --> 01:48:06.639
co-op because there you know because

01:48:06.639 --> 01:48:09.520
because a lot of activists on at Harvard

01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:11.159
and Penn in this third place I can't

01:48:11.159 --> 01:48:14.159
remember maybe it's Yale they were

01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:17.199
actively chanting for Hamas you know

01:48:17.199 --> 01:48:19.920
from the from the river to the sea or

01:48:19.920 --> 01:48:20.760
whatever

01:48:20.760 --> 01:48:24.440
the and and knowing and they know that

01:48:24.440 --> 01:48:27.480
Hamas you know so they weren't talking

01:48:27.480 --> 01:48:31.480
you know so that this this kind of like

01:48:31.480 --> 01:48:35.639
rabid activism that's happening in in

01:48:35.639 --> 01:48:39.960
you know like and rabid rabid freedom

01:48:39.960 --> 01:48:42.760
for homeless drugless drug people on

01:48:42.760 --> 01:48:45.400
drugs and homeless in this country which

01:48:45.400 --> 01:48:48.480
is horrible like there's this there's

01:48:48.480 --> 01:48:52.440
this weird co-opting in Liberal Society

01:48:52.440 --> 01:48:57.320
of of the government and what are should

01:48:57.320 --> 01:49:03.280
be seen as as radical activist so so um

01:49:03.280 --> 01:49:06.520
now having said that you can't at

01:49:06.520 --> 01:49:10.840
Harvard um call somebody by a

01:49:10.840 --> 01:49:15.080
transgender man a a a girl that's not

01:49:15.080 --> 01:49:19.119
it's not like they don't have speech

01:49:19.119 --> 01:49:22.119
rules they have these

01:49:22.119 --> 01:49:26.440
weird this weird co-opting for very very

01:49:26.440 --> 01:49:28.119
liberal

01:49:28.119 --> 01:49:32.199
values that is not you can't make sense

01:49:32.199 --> 01:49:33.400
out of

01:49:33.400 --> 01:49:37.560
it from the sense that they have power I

01:49:37.560 --> 01:49:40.480
I just think that that they're co-opting

01:49:40.480 --> 01:49:41.719
a huge

01:49:41.719 --> 01:49:44.199
generation they're G to be big daddy and

01:49:44.199 --> 01:49:47.920
big mommy to a huge generation and this

01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:50.119
doesn't bother them because they will

01:49:50.119 --> 01:49:52.080
will gain more power from it this is

01:49:52.080 --> 01:49:53.440
what I see

01:49:53.440 --> 01:49:58.199
happening um and so by um and of course

01:49:58.199 --> 01:50:01.360
that's that's the generous generous

01:50:01.360 --> 01:50:04.040
analysis the ungenerous analysis is they

01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:07.440
want more conflict in their societies

01:50:07.440 --> 01:50:09.000
because that also will give them more

01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:11.400
power that's the least gener now having

01:50:11.400 --> 01:50:13.920
said that these presidents of these

01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:16.400
universities that kind of brainwash been

01:50:16.400 --> 01:50:18.360
they come up through the O there's

01:50:18.360 --> 01:50:21.520
something very weird going going on that

01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:25.719
has never been seen before like this is

01:50:25.719 --> 01:50:30.080
very weird it's very weird so that's

01:50:30.080 --> 01:50:32.119
what I think you're you're sensing when

01:50:32.119 --> 01:50:34.400
you say you know but the mai you know

01:50:34.400 --> 01:50:35.880
there's something

01:50:35.880 --> 01:50:37.679
very

01:50:37.679 --> 01:50:40.400
unbalanced and weird going

01:50:40.400 --> 01:50:43.400
on

01:50:47.040 --> 01:50:49.040
Marie so I

01:50:49.040 --> 01:50:51.800
guess when you were showing when you did

01:50:51.800 --> 01:50:54.000
your the presentation it got me thinking

01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:55.320
about the

01:50:55.320 --> 01:50:59.320
structures and like when I was um

01:50:59.320 --> 01:51:02.599
talking about the tension that and the

01:51:02.599 --> 01:51:06.719
Paradox that um uh my people were able

01:51:06.719 --> 01:51:10.079
to hold that

01:51:10.079 --> 01:51:14.239
um and and and just there there's

01:51:14.239 --> 01:51:17.320
something about that that feels out of

01:51:17.320 --> 01:51:20.520
date now and that's what I can't put my

01:51:20.520 --> 01:51:24.480
finger on and so what I am kind of like

01:51:24.480 --> 01:51:27.000
I I

01:51:27.000 --> 01:51:31.040
I'm uh it makes me

01:51:31.040 --> 01:51:33.440
wonder I guess I'm I'm thinking about

01:51:33.440 --> 01:51:36.440
Zack Stein's work and what it you know

01:51:36.440 --> 01:51:40.679
what what a what a post- tragic actor in

01:51:40.679 --> 01:51:42.880
a conflict situation looks like and

01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:46.090
sounds like I guess is the question that

01:51:46.090 --> 01:51:47.800
[Music]

01:51:47.800 --> 01:51:52.480
um this is this is a voking for

01:51:52.480 --> 01:51:55.480
me

01:51:59.960 --> 01:52:03.880
yeah yeah something very very unsettling

01:52:03.880 --> 01:52:06.119
is

01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:16.840
happening and there's also something in

01:52:16.840 --> 01:52:20.000
the unsettle unsettling of it I feel

01:52:20.000 --> 01:52:22.719
sensing into that that actually moves

01:52:22.719 --> 01:52:26.719
into action paradoxically enough it it

01:52:26.719 --> 01:52:30.719
almost like being on a on a seat and

01:52:30.719 --> 01:52:33.719
observing it almost puts it into action

01:52:33.719 --> 01:52:36.920
or into another gear and I don't know

01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:40.360
how that will unfold or emerge but

01:52:40.360 --> 01:52:42.719
there's

01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:48.800
this I I feel this brainwash or I see

01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:51.360
this brainwashing on different positions

01:52:51.360 --> 01:52:54.360
as well in organizations and

01:52:54.360 --> 01:52:57.440
corporations and but but like you said

01:52:57.440 --> 01:52:59.800
Bonnie when you're present or when you

01:52:59.800 --> 01:53:03.400
see someone else present with this kind

01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:07.159
of embodied groundedness or

01:53:07.159 --> 01:53:11.000
individuated it it transpires like um a

01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:13.840
remembering a latency that has been

01:53:13.840 --> 01:53:15.840
forgotten and that

01:53:15.840 --> 01:53:19.199
evokes the Awakening of in that moment

01:53:19.199 --> 01:53:21.400
almost and there are no words like you

01:53:21.400 --> 01:53:22.920
said when you're with the horses it

01:53:22.920 --> 01:53:24.840
doesn't there that you can sit with the

01:53:24.840 --> 01:53:26.880
horses for hour and listen to how they

01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:29.639
graze and how they chew the grass and

01:53:29.639 --> 01:53:31.880
and there's like a rhythm to the the

01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:35.880
chewing of the grass and it it ingresses

01:53:35.880 --> 01:53:37.800
and you become the grass in the mouth of

01:53:37.800 --> 01:53:41.159
the horse almost and and that's how you

01:53:41.159 --> 01:53:46.079
can be with I I sometimes forget to be

01:53:46.079 --> 01:53:48.920
like that with people and I think that

01:53:48.920 --> 01:53:51.440
that's where the key for me is like how

01:53:51.440 --> 01:53:52.760
can I

01:53:52.760 --> 01:53:56.280
be as I trust nature how can I have that

01:53:56.280 --> 01:53:58.400
trust again in people while I'm with

01:53:58.400 --> 01:54:01.280
them while I observe this and I think

01:54:01.280 --> 01:54:04.320
that's a real big thing for me actually

01:54:04.320 --> 01:54:06.079
and I wonder

01:54:06.079 --> 01:54:09.639
how we see

01:54:12.840 --> 01:54:17.880
this I want to speak um it uh it feels

01:54:17.880 --> 01:54:20.159
like there's a crumbling of moral ity

01:54:20.159 --> 01:54:23.960
that is so uh pervasive and so vast and

01:54:23.960 --> 01:54:27.360
the evil that's of uh what's possible

01:54:27.360 --> 01:54:30.520
the power can uh with people with power

01:54:30.520 --> 01:54:31.719
can

01:54:31.719 --> 01:54:34.480
control and it seems like there's two

01:54:34.480 --> 01:54:37.440
things on the one

01:54:37.480 --> 01:54:41.000
hand being moral in the world that we

01:54:41.000 --> 01:54:43.239
knew until

01:54:43.239 --> 01:54:47.159
recently let's say among the uh liberal

01:54:47.159 --> 01:54:49.400
left in the left world that had meaning

01:54:49.400 --> 01:54:52.360
in purpose that was tenable people could

01:54:52.360 --> 01:54:55.880
could have a sense of uh that their life

01:54:55.880 --> 01:55:00.360
was for something and what's happening

01:55:00.360 --> 01:55:02.880
now whether people are aware of it or

01:55:02.880 --> 01:55:06.000
not has gone way past that and so that

01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:08.840
structure is no longer in place and so

01:55:08.840 --> 01:55:11.199
there's it feels like there's a

01:55:11.199 --> 01:55:14.360
Devolution to a more dependent you know

01:55:14.360 --> 01:55:18.040
a a loss of individuality because who we

01:55:18.040 --> 01:55:21.719
are required to be and in order to

01:55:21.719 --> 01:55:26.639
um fight against this you know Global

01:55:26.639 --> 01:55:30.280
massive shift of power

01:55:30.280 --> 01:55:34.119
um most of us don't know how to be in

01:55:34.119 --> 01:55:37.760
that last bottom quadrant and one thing

01:55:37.760 --> 01:55:40.560
I I was feeling in that quadrant was The

01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:45.159
Awakening of this idea of fractals and

01:55:45.159 --> 01:55:50.679
so I can be in my small place place here

01:55:50.679 --> 01:55:53.320
I can maybe do something that is going

01:55:53.320 --> 01:55:55.920
to change the

01:55:55.920 --> 01:55:57.719
world

01:55:57.719 --> 01:56:00.400
um because I can have Clarity here but

01:56:00.400 --> 01:56:01.679
the self-

01:56:01.679 --> 01:56:04.159
responsibility is

01:56:04.159 --> 01:56:08.840
profound and um I think I see among

01:56:08.840 --> 01:56:11.000
liberals a

01:56:11.000 --> 01:56:13.679
renunciation of self-responsibility

01:56:13.679 --> 01:56:16.880
because the world is too scary and I

01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:20.440
don't really want to know and um and so

01:56:20.440 --> 01:56:22.400
I'm going to go along with all of this

01:56:22.400 --> 01:56:23.960
usurpation of

01:56:23.960 --> 01:56:26.960
power um and

01:56:26.960 --> 01:56:28.880
co-opting

01:56:28.880 --> 01:56:32.800
um so that I can stay in a place of hope

01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:35.239
where hope is really lost that's what I

01:56:35.239 --> 01:56:38.160
feel so so the

01:56:38.160 --> 01:56:39.880
[Music]

01:56:39.880 --> 01:56:42.159
um that's what I feel like there's a

01:56:42.159 --> 01:56:46.639
there's a transition to being that that

01:56:46.639 --> 01:56:49.280
that if we are fractals then everything

01:56:49.280 --> 01:56:53.480
we we are is impacting everything that

01:56:53.480 --> 01:56:57.040
is and how do

01:56:57.119 --> 01:57:01.880
we how do we stand in that and how do we

01:57:01.880 --> 01:57:05.119
be that

01:57:10.320 --> 01:57:13.639
responsible and just to um tie it back

01:57:13.639 --> 01:57:15.960
to our language at the beginning that

01:57:15.960 --> 01:57:19.800
was beautiful Phoebe is yes this is the

01:57:19.800 --> 01:57:22.960
is a causal actor you got multiple

01:57:22.960 --> 01:57:25.400
potentials coming in here it's a

01:57:25.400 --> 01:57:28.159
transducer multiple new potential States

01:57:28.159 --> 01:57:31.679
going out there multiples

01:57:31.679 --> 01:57:35.040
experation self is a causal actor so it

01:57:35.040 --> 01:57:39.239
it matters what kind of self you

01:57:44.440 --> 01:57:48.000
are okay my friends thank you so much

01:57:48.000 --> 01:57:51.159
another very very good good conversation

01:57:51.159 --> 01:57:54.159
and I'll get it up right away and uh

01:57:54.159 --> 01:57:56.880
maybe I'll see you on

01:57:57.800 --> 01:58:00.800
Saturday



## Cohort 3

00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.920
okay okay okay and they say repent

00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:11.440
repent I wonder what they

00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:14.639
me okay so today we're going to go into

00:00:14.639 --> 00:00:18.720
a breakout groups at first with some

00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.480
prompts um unless someone has

00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.720
some overbearing

00:00:25.720 --> 00:00:29.000
or obsession with a clarification

00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:30.480
question or something we want to just

00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:32.719
start oh I don't want to do the whole

00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:35.120
you know we've been doing a lot of open

00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:38.399
mics so um

00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:41.680
yeah so uh this is your chance we have

00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:46.680
three minutes before I give you your

00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:58.760
prompts the reason why I have to be so

00:00:58.760 --> 00:01:02.480
uh uh uh personi or whatever that word

00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:04.600
is is because if I get to

00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:06.760
talking then then it just goes on

00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:11.560
forever so this is more control my own

00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.560
enthusiasm

00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:19.200
um and

00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.520
yours three minutes to repent got three

00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:24.720
first we have to figure out what they

00:01:24.720 --> 00:01:26.400
meant and then we have three minutes to

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.880
repent so we're under the under the wire

00:01:28.880 --> 00:01:31.840
here

00:01:39.360 --> 00:01:42.280
okay so

00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.079
um what we're going to do today is

00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:47.840
Imagine

00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.320
futures um but I'm going to give you a

00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:53.759
little um script to follow because I

00:01:53.759 --> 00:01:56.520
think it will be more generative than

00:01:56.520 --> 00:01:59.479
like if we just go off into all

00:01:59.479 --> 00:02:01.960
Direction s now I'm going to give it to

00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:06.119
you as four different scenarios but I

00:02:06.119 --> 00:02:12.120
think that um it's easier if you if if

00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.800
someone in the group

00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.360
has maybe a

00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.599
um I could have done a Google doc but

00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.319
it's it's if we could try to organize

00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:26.519
our our our um ideation our imaginations

00:02:26.519 --> 00:02:29.200
around four different scenarios that

00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:31.239
would be good and I think what happens

00:02:31.239 --> 00:02:33.720
is you get into one and then you can

00:02:33.720 --> 00:02:35.200
you'll see what I mean I don't think you

00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:36.959
should just stick at one and then the

00:02:36.959 --> 00:02:39.239
next one you can do that but talking

00:02:39.239 --> 00:02:41.720
around all four of them at the same time

00:02:41.720 --> 00:02:45.159
I think is is also useful or more useful

00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:46.720
okay so the four different

00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:49.920
scenarios you know it's a typical Matrix

00:02:49.920 --> 00:02:53.680
we're going to imagine Futures where the

00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.000
technology is more advanced than it is

00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:01.000
today and Futures with the technology

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.879
has crashed due to some armagon or

00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:06.879
something and we're thrown back into

00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:10.400
some more much more primitive technology

00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:16.239
either by um Force disaster or

00:03:16.239 --> 00:03:21.040
um um just common common agreement okay

00:03:21.040 --> 00:03:25.360
so we want to include both of those

00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:27.640
scenarios and it's a matrix so we want

00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:30.959
to then also include

00:03:30.959 --> 00:03:34.680
um Futures where the Consciousness has

00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.840
regressed so it's less

00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.599
complex so you know back to the Stone

00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:45.879
Age or to the medieval times due to some

00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:49.799
set of conditions so you could have and

00:03:49.799 --> 00:03:52.360
and then Futures where the Consciousness

00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:57.159
has gotten more complex or more whatever

00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.239
growth in Consciousness Consciousness

00:03:59.239 --> 00:04:01.840
has evolved D so you then you that means

00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.640
you have four Futures you have a future

00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:08.720
where uh Consciousness has regressed and

00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:11.040
technology is more

00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:13.400
primitive you have a future where

00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:14.920
Consciousness has regressed and

00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:17.600
technology has been

00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.959
accelerated you see the

00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:23.400
difference then you have a future where

00:04:23.400 --> 00:04:26.720
Consciousness has evolved whatever that

00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.080
means and Technology also has

00:04:29.080 --> 00:04:31.600
accelerated

00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:32.720
and you have a future where

00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.919
Consciousness has evolved and technology

00:04:35.919 --> 00:04:41.240
has decelerated or been scaled

00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:44.880
back right so it's just a

00:04:44.880 --> 00:04:49.560
matrix does you understand there four

00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.360
zones are there any

00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:02.520
questions yeah I can type that so

00:05:02.520 --> 00:05:04.880
so

00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:10.680
Zone one is I have a question yeah um so

00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:12.120
basically we're just trying to basically

00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:14.400
just like imagine what this scenario

00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:17.520
would look like yeah these four Su

00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:21.919
Futures yeah so Zone one or future one

00:05:21.919 --> 00:05:25.120
Advance caution

00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.840
regress zone two or future two is

00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:33.319
uh

00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.660
technology more

00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:36.919
[Music]

00:05:36.919 --> 00:05:39.039
primitive

00:05:39.039 --> 00:05:41.680
Consciousness

00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.400
regressed zone

00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.720
three is

00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:51.880
consciousness evolved whatever that

00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:53.680
means

00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:58.479
technology scaled back or

00:05:58.479 --> 00:06:00.080
regressed

00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:02.720
and zone

00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:04.600
for

00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:08.160
Consciousness evolved

00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.160
technology

00:06:18.919 --> 00:06:21.360
accelerated see I've teased them apart

00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:22.840
because people are usually

00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:26.440
evolutionaries are regressives and and

00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:28.759
we can imagine you'll know you'll notice

00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:31.400
when you C you you you have your

00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:34.160
conversation you'll notice that they're

00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.759
not as tightly coupled as as we think

00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:39.880
they are

00:06:39.880 --> 00:06:42.440
um which is kind of interesting and then

00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.759
you can go off into noticing what you're

00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.000
yeah

00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:53.520
Charlie Sor right

00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:56.479
um again you

00:06:56.479 --> 00:07:01.120
you you've been very sort of aligned

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:05.919
with my like intense focus on exact

00:07:05.919 --> 00:07:07.759
terminology and I

00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.360
noticed

00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.360
that

00:07:12.840 --> 00:07:16.360
your your technology terms are not

00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.919
identical right you've got Advanced and

00:07:18.919 --> 00:07:21.319
accelerated and I know you also used

00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:24.160
evolved too but I was just I don't know

00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:27.120
how important the the sort of subtle

00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.599
differences in how we how we say that

00:07:29.599 --> 00:07:33.520
make matter just yeah whatever whatever

00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:35.440
word fits in your

00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:39.319
scenario so Advanced accelerated I did

00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:41.440
say I use the word evolved for

00:07:41.440 --> 00:07:44.520
Consciousness um and then this this is

00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:46.000
an interesting question that could come

00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.360
up in the conversation but can

00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.479
technology evolve and what does that

00:07:50.479 --> 00:07:52.599
mean it's not just merely advancing or

00:07:52.599 --> 00:07:54.560
accelerating it's evolving so this would

00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:56.159
come in your

00:07:56.159 --> 00:07:58.240
conversation um you know I give when I

00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:01.199
give the prompts I try try to use open

00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.159
things because this is exactly this

00:08:03.159 --> 00:08:04.960
question you're answering why why is

00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:06.800
consciousness evolving but technology

00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.919
only advancing or scaling and blah blah

00:08:09.919 --> 00:08:13.479
blah so um yeah so these are all parts

00:08:13.479 --> 00:08:17.599
of the conversation and different uh you

00:08:17.599 --> 00:08:20.000
don't have to come up with you know the

00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:23.720
same answers in all four zones um but

00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:26.440
just to have a conversation on what what

00:08:26.440 --> 00:08:29.440
what happens in different people's minds

00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:31.759
uh you know like cin already said are we

00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.719
in zone number one he could you he could

00:08:34.719 --> 00:08:37.440
already see how technology could

00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.080
accelerate and Consciousness

00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:45.080
regress um so um this is this is the

00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.200
this what we're going to do for our

00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:49.160
conversation we're going in for 45

00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:51.519
minutes

00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:54.560
um so really you know you can then talk

00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:56.200
about what you're noticing as you're

00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.519
doing the experiment all the things we

00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.040
do um you'll have plenty plenty of time

00:09:01.040 --> 00:09:05.360
for and then we'll come back and

00:09:06.519 --> 00:09:09.519
share

00:09:10.920 --> 00:09:13.480
this

00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.770
okay three to

00:09:15.770 --> 00:09:18.820
[Music]

00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.200
four watch

00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.880
watch

00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:32.839
move to

00:09:32.839 --> 00:09:38.399
three okay so options 45

00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.040
minutes I might do something interesting

00:09:43.040 --> 00:09:45.519
and come and

00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.959
audit um since the so if you see me come

00:09:48.959 --> 00:09:50.959
into your room and audit just ignore me

00:09:50.959 --> 00:09:52.959
okay is that okay if I do

00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:56.240
that right I haven't done it in two and

00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.880
a half years so be something different

00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:03.920
okay enjoy your conversation enjoy your

00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:20.880
company the message

00:10:20.880 --> 00:10:24.480
was go another half

00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.720
hour all right I'll just say I had a

00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.720
tension in my solar plexus in the middle

00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.079
of the night and I woke up and the

00:10:30.079 --> 00:10:32.920
message was get up and be that like

00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:36.000
there was this burgeoning energy and so

00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.959
I got up and I I was with it however I

00:10:38.959 --> 00:10:41.240
was with it and then

00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:43.399
yesterday uh or the day before I got a

00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:44.880
text from Charles

00:10:44.880 --> 00:10:47.200
eisenstein my best

00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:50.800
friend and and

00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:56.560
uh I had donated to the RFK uh campaign

00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:58.519
so I was on his radar and he was

00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:02.920
reaching out out to people and um he so

00:11:02.920 --> 00:11:04.800
I had to check in with the sanity

00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:07.200
project and say is this really Charles

00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.240
eisenstein my new best friend texting me

00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.880
or is this you know some kind of a hack

00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:15.040
so I found out it was him and so we so

00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:18.920
we had a conversation yesterday and um

00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:23.720
it was really fun and uh delightful and

00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:27.399
wonderful and I woke up in the middle of

00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:29.600
the night at two 2: in the morning again

00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.120
thinking I had Wicked indigestion and

00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:33.959
then I was like oh no there's this

00:11:33.959 --> 00:11:38.000
chakra this this uh solar plexus is

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:43.760
like so I got up and what it felt like

00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.480
was

00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.680
the whatever the I don't want to label

00:11:52.680 --> 00:11:54.399
it but I'm going to use labels but they

00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:56.639
probably won't be big enough but

00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.600
wherever he's vibrating in in whatever

00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:04.079
worlds he's playing in I I got this um

00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:05.480
it's it's almost like all of it

00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:08.160
including being one-on-one with RFK and

00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:11.399
then the mag magnitude of what RFK is

00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.440
able to hold in his own being and what

00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.120
he's doing in the world all of that felt

00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:19.120
like like that was coming in in a new

00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.399
way to

00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.560
me and so I need to get up and like

00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:27.880
um just be with that energy and but as I

00:12:27.880 --> 00:12:30.399
was lying in bed before before I got up

00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.800
so that's one thing that's

00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:40.000
like a sense of being almost uplifted or

00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.360
invited into a new you know

00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.880
vibrational

00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:49.079
informational field

00:12:49.079 --> 00:12:52.079
world and then um but I was as I was

00:12:52.079 --> 00:12:53.480
lying in B before I got up I was

00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:54.680
thinking about

00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:58.560
fractals and I had I I never got trying

00:12:58.560 --> 00:12:59.360
to

00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.360
articulated

00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.279
but the feeling

00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:05.839
was

00:13:05.839 --> 00:13:09.480
uh that

00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.760
um that that we used to have archetypes

00:13:12.760 --> 00:13:14.920
and hierarchy and we used to project our

00:13:14.920 --> 00:13:17.360
power onto these structures and they

00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.000
kind of managed our power and that's

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.000
falling down and so now there's um

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.199
people are waking up to becoming more

00:13:25.199 --> 00:13:28.199
self-responsible for their own power and

00:13:28.199 --> 00:13:32.560
for how they how they uh house and

00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:35.760
channel and whatever their own power and

00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:38.720
and augment it uh but the feeling was

00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:43.920
that that that the fractal here and the

00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:47.360
and whatever whatever fractals are sort

00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.560
of in the same realm on a larger like

00:13:50.560 --> 00:13:53.959
that there's a co- causal excitement or

00:13:53.959 --> 00:13:58.079
a co- causal Awakening and um that's his

00:13:58.079 --> 00:14:00.560
that's that's only only thing I can say

00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:02.399
um and I don't know if that's true or

00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:05.000
not but that was the feeling was that

00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.279
what's

00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.279
burgeoning

00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:14.040
here is simultaneously

00:14:14.800 --> 00:14:19.399
burgeoning and there's a way to

00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:22.199
co-

00:14:22.199 --> 00:14:24.759
virgin

00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.519
um so that was my direct response to

00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:29.560
what you just said about the many people

00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:32.959
anymore but I I did experience that

00:14:32.959 --> 00:14:34.959
with I

00:14:34.959 --> 00:14:37.360
mean because of the field that Charles

00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.839
is playing in there's there's it's

00:14:39.839 --> 00:14:40.959
exciting

00:14:40.959 --> 00:14:43.720
so yeah so he's a living center of a

00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.639
field and so I would say bio is bio

00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:57.079
aaf has the same kind of presence um and

00:14:57.079 --> 00:15:00.079
um um I was just saying all these social

00:15:00.079 --> 00:15:02.079
influencers and all the they don't have

00:15:02.079 --> 00:15:03.399
that kind of presence they're running

00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.519
some other script okay but these these

00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:09.320
other uh you know it's Bodies In Space

00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.079
bio doesn't even have to say anything

00:15:11.079 --> 00:15:12.720
you don't have to know anything about

00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.519
bio of course once you start to know

00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.680
what these guys are saying it gets

00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:21.040
augmented but um you know they they

00:15:21.040 --> 00:15:24.079
distort space toward a per towards

00:15:24.079 --> 00:15:27.000
something new it evolves the whole thing

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.120
shifts something shifts

00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:35.120
and um and this is the um yeah that's

00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.319
what's in that b bottom right hand

00:15:37.319 --> 00:15:39.199
quadrant um it's different than the

00:15:39.199 --> 00:15:42.399
human potential movement um it's it's

00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.759
something else and and to

00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.120
notice um to

00:15:49.959 --> 00:15:53.720
notice that you have that quality and to

00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.600
and then to start to um allow it to show

00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.440
up um it it's an interesting thing and

00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:04.720
just knowing that little like the only

00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.199
thing I'm doing is helping us see make

00:16:07.199 --> 00:16:09.240
it more explicit because then I say

00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.120
something and it's like you guys you

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.920
guys kind of know it already you're

00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:17.279
already that and it just helps

00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.440
clarify

00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.560
um at least some of what you know we're

00:16:23.560 --> 00:16:26.680
going we're going through so um that's

00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:28.120
and we talked about that that it being

00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:30.560
lat that's the latent potential in the

00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:33.319
field um there's always been people like

00:16:33.319 --> 00:16:38.160
that um but now more and more just quote

00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:42.240
unquote Ordinary People are are um

00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.959
resonating with that so um yeah B I want

00:16:46.959 --> 00:16:50.079
to just refine something you just said

00:16:50.079 --> 00:16:53.600
yes Charles yes bio they curve space in

00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:54.519
a

00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:57.639
field and what I get out of that last

00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.040
quadrant is

00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:03.319
is they're not curving space only as an

00:17:03.319 --> 00:17:06.439
individual they're curving space Also as

00:17:06.439 --> 00:17:10.839
a part of that Circle or that group it's

00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:13.160
a little different than when Charles

00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.039
stood on the stage with a microphone

00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.679
speaking to his students or how you do

00:17:19.679 --> 00:17:25.120
it speak to us you speak to us as part

00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:29.080
of a group and that's where the transfer

00:17:29.080 --> 00:17:32.960
can now occur and then it gets really

00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.280
what was the word you use

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:39.160
exertive yeah when the the groups bump

00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:40.480
into each

00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.240
other that's when it's the explosions

00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.559
and that's what I think phbe was

00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.880
speaking to is that when it's cooc

00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.280
causal it's

00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:55.200
explosive in the whole

00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.840
field so anyway I'm I'm excited about

00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:03.360
that model and about what we're doing

00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:06.039
together and what we can possibly

00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.840
accomplish together and it has to do

00:18:08.840 --> 00:18:12.440
also to be

00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.880
complete what's going to happen when we

00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.880
come together as a village in

00:18:19.159 --> 00:18:22.159
June

00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:26.600
foration see right fornication now

00:18:26.600 --> 00:18:29.400
there's EX forcation

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.600
or both or

00:18:32.600 --> 00:18:36.679
both um it's yeah so so I mean I think

00:18:36.679 --> 00:18:39.480
this is a the a turn that you've seen in

00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.400
the quote unquote limel web over the

00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:46.400
last couple of years um that

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.600
um it's not so much who who people you

00:18:50.600 --> 00:18:53.799
agree with like there's some people that

00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:57.840
I feel that are just the way we describe

00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:02.440
Charles Stein and I would when I'm ever

00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.360
when I'm ever I'm with them I fight like

00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:10.000
like cat and dog about certain like

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.720
metaphysical things um but it's this

00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.159
other thing that is the trctor of the

00:19:16.159 --> 00:19:18.320
field you know there's other things

00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:21.320
about

00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:23.640
um

00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:28.760
yeah so that's and you know there always

00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:33.200
be some bigger energy bodies in that but

00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.320
we're also looking for there's a lot of

00:19:36.320 --> 00:19:38.679
people who have those they distort space

00:19:38.679 --> 00:19:40.200
in that way and they don't just they

00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.039
don't just they just don't have such big

00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.000
energy bodies so we don't want to um but

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.679
we use these other guys these other

00:19:47.679 --> 00:19:50.080
people because it makes the point

00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:53.440
clearer but we don't want to Discount um

00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.360
wherever we see this uh that's Laten in

00:19:56.360 --> 00:19:59.400
the system um

00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.559
and we also notice how hard it is on

00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.440
people's bodies like sometimes I just

00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:05.960
think Charles he goes through these

00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:08.400
phases I think he's G of crazy and then

00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.080
he kind of gets back and then you know

00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:14.559
all there's it's really taxing on the

00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.799
system for some of these like

00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.120
bigger people are running bigger

00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:25.320
experiments um with their with their

00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:30.159
bodies and their body lines so

00:20:30.280 --> 00:20:33.000
um yeah that's something that is lighten

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.280
in the

00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.039
[Music]

00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.320
field so especially for young people

00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:41.919
it's not so much the content because a

00:20:41.919 --> 00:20:42.880
lot of times they don't know what

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.440
they're talking

00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:47.720
about because they're young you know and

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.679
they're still like trying to put

00:20:49.679 --> 00:20:51.559
together but you can tell they're one of

00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.080
these these bodies that distort space in

00:20:55.080 --> 00:21:00.120
stop you're distorting my space

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.960
I'll just end with a um so Marie you did

00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.640
we started at 12 today and then David

00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.520
and Phoebe came in at two thinking and

00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:11.640
we were just going on a little bit

00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.320
because they had something to talk about

00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:17.320
that's that's my story as well yeah and

00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:20.720
and the unfortunate thing is I didn't

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.279
record uh the debrief after the breakout

00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.080
group but we will I will put up some

00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:28.840
show notes um

00:21:28.840 --> 00:21:31.320
and we ran an exercise you can do it you

00:21:31.320 --> 00:21:34.799
can do it at home um so I just want to

00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.799
tell one story one time I was having

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:41.159
this group over quite a while ago and we

00:21:41.159 --> 00:21:43.640
were all sitting around like in campfire

00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.120
style but there was no

00:21:45.120 --> 00:21:48.159
campfire and people

00:21:48.159 --> 00:21:52.120
were serious a little bit melancholic

00:21:52.120 --> 00:21:55.960
serious um working hard and at the time

00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.720
I was um

00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:04.159
um rewilding I I had been given a a baby

00:22:04.159 --> 00:22:06.039
deer that still had his umbilical cord

00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.720
on and I he was in the process of he was

00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.200
old enough so he would he had a uh a

00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.240
cage he would come into and lay in

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.520
during the day and he'd go out at night

00:22:16.520 --> 00:22:19.720
so he's in the process of rewilding

00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.200
himself so we're all in this thing and

00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.960
more like in this mood serious quiet

00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.600
contemplative

00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:29.880
Big

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.039
Ideas and he comes running up right

00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.760
through into the middle of the circle

00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:36.960
and everybody's heart just changed

00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.360
everybody went it was just like so

00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:44.720
automatic you know you can all know how

00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.919
you your mood would have changed and

00:22:46.919 --> 00:22:49.360
this was the first time I was like this

00:22:49.360 --> 00:22:52.360
is the spatial this is bodies and space

00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:55.840
this is Distortion and all he is all he

00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:59.360
did was what he was born to do just be a

00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:01.400
deer you know so it's not like rocket

00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:03.559
science it's we have to we have to

00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:09.080
unlearn something um and so um yeah so

00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:11.279
that's just a little anecdote because it

00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.120
just shows you that that that power is

00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:18.320
real it's very concrete and real um and

00:23:18.320 --> 00:23:23.080
um it it it's the same same it's a

00:23:23.080 --> 00:23:26.360
direct analogy to uh that little

00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:29.520
experience with his name was Elvis so

00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:31.720
Elvis the

00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:37.520
deer but isn't that true if we manage

00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:42.360
to decondition even momentarily from

00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:45.279
this notion of the normal I mean I'm

00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.919
just saying between us

00:23:47.919 --> 00:23:52.200
because there's just such a narrow band

00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.000
of this sort of neurot typicality I mean

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.080
bio's working with that a lot I think

00:23:57.080 --> 00:24:00.279
because of his son being

00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:05.039
autistic and I just see it as as really

00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.200
powerful um um way of becoming very very

00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.480
curious about each other not in the

00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.080
sense of a resource which is how

00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:19.159
we've basically lived let's say the past

00:24:19.159 --> 00:24:22.320
500 years as a dominant culture with the

00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:24.679
dominant technology which is linear

00:24:24.679 --> 00:24:26.840
which is the Gutenberg Press which is a

00:24:26.840 --> 00:24:30.039
book which is manuals which

00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.039
is a beginning middle and end kind of uh

00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.679
discursive

00:24:36.679 --> 00:24:40.880
pattern and when we walk into a room or

00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.320
whether it's a zoom room or or or in

00:24:44.320 --> 00:24:46.720
real life room and we start to look at

00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:49.600
each other as as being completely

00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:52.840
strange creatures and with

00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:56.279
curiosity that Divergence manifests I

00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.480
think just like the deer and you know

00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:04.360
it's it's really um uh I think if you

00:25:04.360 --> 00:25:07.880
then get the psycho technology training

00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.520
to check in with your biomarkers you

00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:14.080
don't repress your tail

00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:17.440
wagging or your growl you know I mean

00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.799
exactly

00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.799
exactly

00:25:25.919 --> 00:25:28.360
um okay

00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:32.320
so we'll see you um Thursday or Saturday

00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:34.600
couple more days and we'll try to wrap

00:25:34.600 --> 00:25:37.880
this up into some kind of uh

00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.320
understandable module for the for the

00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.120
end of the year thank you for playing

00:25:42.120 --> 00:25:44.159
along thank you for showing up have a

00:25:44.159 --> 00:25:45.440
great

00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.440
day



## Cohort 4

00:00:01.839 --> 00:00:04.240
okay sorry for that

00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:08.279
advertisement got snuck in

00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:14.559
there

00:00:14.559 --> 00:00:17.680
Matt's Matt's environs is looking more

00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:22.680
and more Pagan every day I love

00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.160
it let's see let's see how many

00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.800
anecdotes I can tell about people so I

00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.879
have this I have this podcast that keeps

00:00:33.879 --> 00:00:35.920
on being rescheduled and the woman who

00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:39.680
schedules it her name is Katie K D

00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:43.399
maigue and I always think it's KD Teague

00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:44.760
and

00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:47.840
and I get very

00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.879
confused yeah that would confuse me

00:00:51.879 --> 00:00:56.600
too what's Katie doing it's KD MC

00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:01.920
anyways um hello hello hello

00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.040
oh Charlie want me to reveal who that

00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.000
was um I'll find it in a second okay

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.840
we're gonna go right into a

00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:17.799
breakout

00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.880
um that may make some people happy and

00:01:20.880 --> 00:01:23.079
it may make may make some

00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:28.600
people sad uh who who does it make

00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:32.439
happy okay and we're gonna go into

00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.320
diads uh so David's is going to be weird

00:01:36.320 --> 00:01:38.720
you'll be in a Triad that's okay you

00:01:38.720 --> 00:01:40.920
guys you'll be two on two on one you'll

00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:43.320
just have to make sure everybody gets a

00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:48.200
turn over there um and this is what

00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:49.640
you're going to

00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.799
do or try to do or if you would like to

00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:54.960
do this I would suggest that it might be

00:01:54.960 --> 00:02:00.360
fun to do um is think about

00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:02.960
you can have two different time frames

00:02:02.960 --> 00:02:06.479
um or or a spectrum of time frames but

00:02:06.479 --> 00:02:07.319
think

00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:10.360
about um what time frame might be when

00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:12.160
you were

00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:17.480
younger and from relative to your

00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:21.400
parents or your sister or your brother

00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:23.400
or your

00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:26.560
friends what was latent in you what do

00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.760
you see now was latent in you

00:02:30.760 --> 00:02:34.200
that was kind of leaped

00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:37.959
ahead now for some people it might be

00:02:37.959 --> 00:02:41.760
nothing I was just like a regular old Jo

00:02:41.760 --> 00:02:45.800
Joe but then at some point the sleeping

00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:48.040
see latency is like something that can

00:02:48.040 --> 00:02:51.319
sleep sleep between Generations sleep

00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.400
for

00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.040
years and if you find something that was

00:02:56.040 --> 00:02:58.440
sleeping see if you can't trace it back

00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:01.200
to something when you were younger even

00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:03.959
if you make it up [ __ ] just make it up

00:03:03.959 --> 00:03:05.920
we can tell good

00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:08.280
stories um because there will be a part

00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.480
of you that realizes you're making it up

00:03:10.480 --> 00:03:12.599
unless it's even even if it's Dam you

00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:14.680
know seems like a memory it's probably

00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.080
made up but that's

00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:19.360
okay does that make

00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.959
sense so um and then if you have time

00:03:23.959 --> 00:03:27.720
think of the people around you who you

00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:31.319
interact with and what's latent you now

00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.200
relative to them is it the same is it

00:03:34.200 --> 00:03:35.920
something different is there a thread

00:03:35.920 --> 00:03:37.920
that

00:03:37.920 --> 00:03:40.280
connects so bring you can bring yourself

00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:43.599
up to date so the very early on but if

00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:45.400
you're a regular old Joe when did you

00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.319
stop being a regular o

00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:49.159
Joe

00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.599
um if you know what I mean and then

00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:54.760
bring it up to date like what do you

00:03:54.760 --> 00:03:57.560
feel that is latent in you that's not

00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.680
yet expressed itself

00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.360
already today right so getting in go

00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:08.159
going into the past will give you a

00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.560
sense of what that felt

00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:12.519
like and then you're going to bring it

00:04:12.519 --> 00:04:15.079
up into the present

00:04:15.079 --> 00:04:18.079
oh is that feeling in me today because

00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.239
you didn't know that it was lat in you

00:04:20.239 --> 00:04:21.759
in the past you just thought you were

00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.759
weird or something maybe so we're trying

00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.840
to figure out this sense of latency not

00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:30.520
from an external perspective but

00:04:30.520 --> 00:04:34.039
first get acquainted to it from a

00:04:34.039 --> 00:04:36.400
internal perspective and if you remember

00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:38.240
the origins of the self series which I

00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:42.680
know is very long long that whole spiral

00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.840
of expansion of the self the generator

00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:49.080
function is this sense of latency late

00:04:49.080 --> 00:04:51.360
always potential is latent it's never

00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.080
exhaustible there's always the

00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:56.320
undercurrent of

00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:59.840
latency so that's what we're going to uh

00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:01.320
work

00:05:01.320 --> 00:05:05.520
with today um does that make sense are

00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:06.960
those two are those prompts you're going

00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:09.800
to start with whatever is very early and

00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.479
and maybe it's not so early that's your

00:05:12.479 --> 00:05:15.479
childhood and then how about right

00:05:15.479 --> 00:05:18.479
now

00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.520
um okay we're going in diad so it's

00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:22.800
going to be quite

00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:27.440
intimate um and uh if you're in David

00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:29.039
and Phoebe you have to make sure

00:05:29.039 --> 00:05:32.120
everybody has a turn to yeah you know

00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.120
how to do that don't that's stupid I

00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:35.919
don't need to say that

00:05:35.919 --> 00:05:38.680
okay and we'll go for a half hour

00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:41.840
because it's a di ad and uh then we

00:05:41.840 --> 00:05:45.880
might go back in this depending

00:05:47.840 --> 00:05:50.039
upon Bonnie I could go on my own

00:05:50.039 --> 00:05:51.840
computer but then you'd have to join us

00:05:51.840 --> 00:05:53.960
to make uh no no it's perfect because

00:05:53.960 --> 00:05:56.319
it's two two participants so you guys

00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:02.240
will just um yeah you you guys can um uh

00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.280
and let me see who you have oh okay so

00:06:06.280 --> 00:06:10.120
you have a good person who can go fast

00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:12.560
you know who who can go fast enough I

00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.000
don't know what that means but okay

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.560
enjoy your company enjoy your

00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.400
conversation it's only 30 minutes I'll

00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:22.080
see you very

00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:31.400
soon

00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.400
for

00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.319
for

00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.120
okay let's see if we have clusters of

00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:49.680
similarities or what the spectrum of uh

00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.680
traits we talked about and if when you

00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.400
share say early traits late you know

00:07:55.400 --> 00:07:58.319
late traits or let us know what time

00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.400
period uh were talking about you can

00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:04.199
either talk about what you figured out

00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:07.919
or what you heard your partner uh

00:08:07.919 --> 00:08:10.800
say I'm curious for how many people did

00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:15.319
either drugs or Alan Watts unlock the

00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:23.520
latency I was into both but I don't know

00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:26.400
that they unlocked

00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:29.720
anything I think Alan Watts had effect

00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.440
on me in those days but we didn't talk

00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.959
about it at all but uh you're right on

00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:45.760
there Ed um you're you're question I

00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:47.200
didn't talk about that at all with

00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:49.720
Sandra but just your question has made

00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:53.279
me think that actually for me none of my

00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:56.040
ex none of my openings happened by

00:08:56.040 --> 00:08:58.160
reading I actually started reading only

00:08:58.160 --> 00:08:59.760
after the experience

00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:02.839
so I had no cognitive understanding at

00:09:02.839 --> 00:09:06.160
all of a lot of concepts for example a

00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:08.640
anything Awakening nothing and then I

00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:10.560
went to an Asam and I stayed there for a

00:09:10.560 --> 00:09:12.959
month and I was like what what the

00:09:12.959 --> 00:09:15.760
[ __ ] going on with my head and a lot

00:09:15.760 --> 00:09:17.399
of things happened and then I had to

00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.560
read and and I read and I was like oh

00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:22.959
that you know so was always delayed and

00:09:22.959 --> 00:09:25.440
it's only recently like the liono has

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.720
introduced me a lot to a lot of thinkers

00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:32.440
a lot of that can name things that to me

00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:35.560
were um I I kind of knew but I didn't

00:09:35.560 --> 00:09:38.399
have a name so it's the it's yeah

00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:39.920
unlocked in a

00:09:39.920 --> 00:09:42.720
the

00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:45.519
way you know Katie I said that the drugs

00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:47.800
didn't unleash anything but actually

00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:49.079
they did even though it didn't come up

00:09:49.079 --> 00:09:50.839
in the conversation because I had this

00:09:50.839 --> 00:09:53.920
experience in the fall of 73 I was on

00:09:53.920 --> 00:09:56.640
LSD at the time and I was sitting in a

00:09:56.640 --> 00:09:57.959
room with some friends and we were all

00:09:57.959 --> 00:10:00.440
being quiet at that time and I felt this

00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.720
energy pummeling my face and then I

00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.760
watched as my lips moved a little bit by

00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:09.360
that energy and I watched as the

00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.320
personality that I have when my lips are

00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:14.320
like that overcame me I'm like what the

00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.079
[ __ ] is going on

00:10:17.079 --> 00:10:22.560
here and I did I I did some LSD maybe 10

00:10:22.560 --> 00:10:24.560
times in the next two weeks I realized I

00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:26.240
could learn how to do this and I started

00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.480
doing yoga so yeah I'm still doing yoga

00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:32.160
so there you

00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:36.240
go but it didn't come up in our

00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.360
conversation I spoke about I think

00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.040
earlier

00:10:55.040 --> 00:11:01.040
um early in life I had the sense of like

00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:05.279
um seemed to be more outward focused but

00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.480
everything was kind of light

00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.760
and like

00:11:10.760 --> 00:11:14.720
uh I use the term like spiritual or just

00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:19.760
like very kind of energetic and like uh

00:11:19.760 --> 00:11:23.760
just a sense of things

00:11:24.079 --> 00:11:30.959
being uh bigger or greater and just um

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.600
I had trouble describing it to my

00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.519
partner but

00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.440
uh but

00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.760
then as I got older now that sense it

00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:45.120
was more of an outward thing and

00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:49.040
now you know the outward part I feel has

00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:53.079
sort of become more dense or not

00:11:53.079 --> 00:12:00.279
as uh you know energetic or bright but I

00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:02.040
feel greater

00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:04.079
wholeness like

00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:09.279
a yeah just a sense of sense of Greater

00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:14.959
wholeness to answer your question though

00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:18.360
Bonnie uh I think for both Ry and I to

00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.959
some degree there was um a sharedness

00:12:21.959 --> 00:12:25.360
like like from the before was just kind

00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:27.600
of playing by the rules without

00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.519
questions and

00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.040
going along with the conventions that

00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:34.120
after being

00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.600
um kind of touching into some natural

00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.880
intelligence that just had a real like

00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:44.040
curiosity and it was it like this

00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:47.040
freedom to think outside the lines and

00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:48.680
to and to

00:12:48.680 --> 00:12:51.480
um to encounter that hunger and then

00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:55.760
find find ways to nourish that

00:12:57.839 --> 00:12:59.959
hunger

00:12:59.959 --> 00:13:02.800
I think it's important here also to

00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:06.800
say that there's a biomarker right a

00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:09.160
biomarker that tells

00:13:09.160 --> 00:13:13.320
you um that there's a satisfaction of

00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.079
that hunger you said satisfaction of

00:13:15.079 --> 00:13:18.880
that hunger right so the culture is not

00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:20.920
saying yeah yes

00:13:20.920 --> 00:13:24.040
yes um but there's a biomarker of

00:13:24.040 --> 00:13:27.360
satisfaction so just I'm just pinging

00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.399
off of that because I'm the

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.120
teacher um

00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.360
yeah Bonnie I like that biomarker thing

00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.920
because the ex the kind of latent

00:13:39.920 --> 00:13:42.040
experience I had as a child came from

00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.199
looking at the cosmos you know looking

00:13:45.199 --> 00:13:47.120
at lying on our backs and looking at the

00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.440
stars and just that feeling it was a new

00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.920
feeling of Mind expansion um mixed in

00:13:54.920 --> 00:13:57.279
with a kind of awe and just a big

00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.160
question mark that felt

00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:04.360
like oh you know that felt like an

00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.120
important experience when looking back

00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.759
on it now when I was younger and I can

00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.240
feel the biomarker of it back then it

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.519
kind of yeah it opened up something

00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.199
latent maybe about seven eight nine

00:14:17.199 --> 00:14:19.199
years old that kind of thing you mean

00:14:19.199 --> 00:14:20.880
you didn't need

00:14:20.880 --> 00:14:24.480
Neil de grass and Tyson what's his name

00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.639
to like point you there like no you sure

00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:29.399
no just be just

00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:33.880
to that's all I needed to do

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.320
exactly there's there is an insight

00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.480
there but also black beautiful Skies you

00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.360
know I guess in the middle of a city it

00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.040
might be hard to do I don't know also

00:14:45.040 --> 00:14:48.160
taken away from our

00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.440
experience so I had

00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.680
um uh

00:15:01.079 --> 00:15:03.920
I experienced Delight in telling this

00:15:03.920 --> 00:15:08.279
story to Anna and so I'm gonna tell it

00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:12.920
again and it was um I'm guessing around

00:15:12.920 --> 00:15:14.199
four years

00:15:14.199 --> 00:15:19.199
old and sitting on the lap of my

00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:24.360
grandfather and he used to like to play

00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.319
like question answer games with me and

00:15:28.319 --> 00:15:29.120
his

00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.360
question I remember this one there were

00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.120
there were different ones but this one

00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:40.160
that I'm recalling was how big is the

00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.600
universe and I was like oh it's really

00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:45.680
really really really

00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:50.000
big and and he would like get me going

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.399
in trying to imagine that and then he

00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:54.839
would

00:15:54.839 --> 00:15:57.079
ask he would ask different questions the

00:15:57.079 --> 00:15:59.600
one I remember would be like like what's

00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.480
at the end of

00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:08.319
it and I was like already just like that

00:16:08.319 --> 00:16:11.800
question blew my mind like

00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:17.639
whoa and and and I like I'm like four

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.759
maybe four and a half and so I'm I was

00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:22.759
like a

00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.440
wall and then he would

00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.480
ask what's on the other side of the wall

00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:35.519
W and that was like

00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:39.600
Wow and so I guess what was being

00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:43.680
touched in that was just uh loving to

00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:46.639
have my mind blown just that sense of

00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.120
wonder and wanting

00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.120
to

00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:57.040
um yeah thanks Justin he was a good

00:16:57.040 --> 00:16:59.279
one um

00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.440
just having that sense of wonder and

00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.199
inquiry kind

00:17:05.199 --> 00:17:08.199
of

00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.799
provoked I was all in for

00:17:16.360 --> 00:17:20.319
it so I just want to tag on that like

00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:21.839
that's the kind

00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.280
of intervention someone can have that

00:17:25.280 --> 00:17:27.559
you're oh you're speaking to the latency

00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:30.039
in the individual

00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.240
like like what kind of question is

00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.039
that so like how as teachers or Elders

00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.559
do we teach to the latency in the

00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.559
individual rather than the content that

00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.120
they're demonstrating or displaying or

00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:46.840
worried about blah blah blah blah blah

00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:51.200
how do we get behind that and tickle the

00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.720
latency that's what he did

00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.559
right to see a person person has

00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.559
latent

00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.840
potential that's beautiful Bonnie that

00:18:04.840 --> 00:18:06.919
was one of the last things I

00:18:06.919 --> 00:18:10.240
was speaking with Rey like what was

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.039
coming up like how to hold that space

00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.640
for the latency and and and whatever

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.320
whoever I

00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:29.240
encounter

00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.919
I was um talking to Sandra which just

00:18:32.919 --> 00:18:36.440
beautiful and U we had some

00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.280
commonalities it seemed like we had

00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:41.240
commonalities to start with um then you

00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:43.880
you correct me Sandra if I share you

00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.880
know not accurately but it feels that

00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.360
because my biomarker was a sense of

00:18:50.360 --> 00:18:54.120
being um wronged not wronged as a

00:18:54.120 --> 00:18:58.159
mistake but looking around me and just

00:18:58.159 --> 00:19:00.000
the the way that people were living was

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.799
wrong like I was just like what are they

00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.120
doing like there's no nothing about the

00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:07.720
the real world or the values captivated

00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.280
me from a very young age I didn't even I

00:19:10.280 --> 00:19:11.840
was shared with SRA I didn't even could

00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:13.799
get myself to write to ask a gift to

00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.400
Santa because I was like I wanted from

00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.840
Santa things that my mom would flip out

00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:20.880
to give because they were not tangible

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.280
they were not like I could I couldn't

00:19:22.280 --> 00:19:24.120
ask for something I was just like I want

00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:26.120
the Stars I want I want to understand

00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:27.760
the universe whatever everything like

00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:29.320
that and my mom was like what the [ __ ]

00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:30.679
so she was like what about this daddy

00:19:30.679 --> 00:19:33.559
and I was like okay yeah so very young

00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.720
so and that progressed as it kept going

00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.520
as I grew up but it was constantly like

00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:42.520
this is wrong and relationships

00:19:42.520 --> 00:19:44.080
everybody fought but they were married

00:19:44.080 --> 00:19:47.200
and why do we have to do this and it

00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.559
kept going on so Sandra at some point

00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:53.480
her questions which to me the biomar was

00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.400
the discomfort was like I don't belong

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.000
at all like there's nothing even though

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.200
there was love there was always love and

00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:02.720
of course there was that level of like

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:04.320
they really loved my parents you know

00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:07.080
that kind of stuff but my grandmother

00:20:07.080 --> 00:20:09.960
from my that my father and my mom split

00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.760
up when I was very little and I wasn't

00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:14.600
raised by my father but his mother

00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.760
became really close to me and she was

00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:18.559
like the anchor because she was an

00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.280
Egyptian a little bit weird she was

00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:23.880
completely out of context in Brazil

00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.679
everything that she did was out and her

00:20:27.679 --> 00:20:29.640
I would go like her like so she was the

00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:31.919
only person I could ask questions and

00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:34.200
she would answer in a way that felt

00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.360
interesting to me and I loved I loved

00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:39.600
having we would sit in front of each

00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:41.320
other having lunch and it was like five

00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:44.240
and six and she would actually TR treat

00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.400
me as an adult and answer my questions

00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.840
like well and I'll be like Oh yay

00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:51.120
somebody's speaking to me in know

00:20:51.120 --> 00:20:52.880
instead of like how cute that you're

00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:54.600
curious about these things and um they

00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.200
used to piss me off

00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.840
and and but but Andra had this um it's

00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:03.760
almost seemed like her life her her

00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:07.039
wrongness her curiosity provoked things

00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.240
in her life that she could meet that

00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.799
path earlier than me like I like so she

00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:15.880
could find her Role Models she could

00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.960
find things like as a young woman so

00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.000
something provoked her whereas for me

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.840
took a long long time it was a constant

00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:25.799
wrongness so I moved to Hong Kong was

00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.200
wrong again and so it was a constant and

00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.559
the wrong rubs and then I find I find

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.279
something else and it opens a wrong and

00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.960
that seems to be the latent is like

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.799
this contracted something that um and I

00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.159
said to Sandra to that now my feeling

00:21:43.159 --> 00:21:46.360
the reason why it feels better now in my

00:21:46.360 --> 00:21:50.120
body is that I I noticed that I just

00:21:50.120 --> 00:21:53.240
inhale like I I had inhal the world and

00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.880
believed it knew what it was doing like

00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.000
I believed the the elders my El this new

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.600
and at some point when that fell which

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:04.400
was I was like oh nobody knows so then

00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.520
it gave me something that is like I

00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:08.480
don't have that sense of wrongness in my

00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.640
body so I'm moved by something else

00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.120
which feels more creative because I go I

00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:14.960
don't believe them anymore like I just

00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.840
don't believe like so it's just a

00:22:16.840 --> 00:22:17.840
different

00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.840
impulse

00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.880
yeah

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.240
I got curious about what what are the

00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.679
biomarkers of latency or how do how do

00:22:34.679 --> 00:22:37.360
we notice

00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:39.080
them

00:22:39.080 --> 00:22:43.640
and in today's version of that it feels

00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.840
like

00:22:47.159 --> 00:22:53.240
a like a pull or a something in the

00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.080
middle of my

00:22:55.080 --> 00:22:56.960
body

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.960
that

00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.360
perceives something that's not there and

00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:04.640
trusts the

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.520
perception and that

00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:14.760
usually somehow moves

00:23:14.760 --> 00:23:18.559
me I guess maybe it's a form of

00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:23.400
arousal um in a direction that I have no

00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.440
idea really why I'm moving in that

00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.880
direction it's just

00:23:30.600 --> 00:23:32.720
trustworthy

00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.320
yeah so a couple of things first of all

00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:40.600
um this thing that Adriana said like she

00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:42.480
understood from early on that her

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.000
parents like had no idea like why she

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.840
would want the stars or whatever but she

00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:51.159
knew they loved her so this is a

00:23:51.159 --> 00:23:52.720
precocious

00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.760
individuation like when you can see the

00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:57.159
gap between your you and your family but

00:23:57.159 --> 00:24:00.240
you are you you don't have this kind of

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.919
like oh reactionary they hate me blah

00:24:02.919 --> 00:24:06.159
blah blah blah like this is if you're

00:24:06.159 --> 00:24:08.320
working with young people this is a

00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:11.320
marker of someone who could see their

00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:13.080
parents they had a perspective on their

00:24:13.080 --> 00:24:15.000
parents that their parents did not have

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.240
on themselves so this is very recent I

00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:22.120
mean there's always probably been people

00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:24.720
like Buddhas and stuff in history but

00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:28.399
for this to be this common it's not

00:24:28.399 --> 00:24:31.159
it's not real common but this is

00:24:31.159 --> 00:24:34.240
something as teachers you want to listen

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.840
for that is this is extremely

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:39.399
extraordinary because most people go

00:24:39.399 --> 00:24:42.799
through that Gap negotiate that Gap by

00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.520
hating their parents uh blaming

00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:47.399
themselves shaming themselves it's all

00:24:47.399 --> 00:24:50.159
the same structure right but to be able

00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:53.840
to experience the Gap witness the Gap

00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.159
but understand that your parents are not

00:24:56.159 --> 00:24:58.559
to blame that they're like kind of doing

00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.000
the best they

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.880
can is an

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.600
exceptional characteristic of of the new

00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:09.919
human it's it's Advanced individuation

00:25:09.919 --> 00:25:13.320
and then you know some of us understand

00:25:13.320 --> 00:25:14.720
whether they're happen to us or we can

00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.320
see in our like I can see in my sister

00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:21.000
that negotiating

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.960
that tension creates trauma and

00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.880
narrative and blah blah blah blah blah

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.080
blah blah that happens forever uh but we

00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:33.720
meet people who understand they suffer

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.520
it they because they're children they

00:25:36.520 --> 00:25:39.200
still suffer it so we don't want to say

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.960
well they suffered less they're

00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:44.000
sociopaths they suffer

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.120
it this is very important they suffer

00:25:48.120 --> 00:25:52.399
it but they transcend it and they do

00:25:52.399 --> 00:25:54.480
this as like six year olds and seven

00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.720
year olds and eighty olds this is some

00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:00.799
we want to look for because as they grow

00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.240
older and Adriana will say this like

00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.600
there's like midadulthood late teenage

00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:09.000
mid adulthood you just think you're

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.799
deviant like none of the models tell you

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:14.679
that like now there's something like

00:26:14.679 --> 00:26:16.919
really exciting that's happening here

00:26:16.919 --> 00:26:20.200
and this produces continual

00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.159
pressure so that's another kind of

00:26:24.159 --> 00:26:27.279
biomarker not it's not a biomarker um

00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:29.399
whatever what's the word it's a it's a

00:26:29.399 --> 00:26:32.399
signal as teachers this is what you're

00:26:32.399 --> 00:26:34.399
listening for and that you want to

00:26:34.399 --> 00:26:36.279
reflect back that this

00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:38.480
is uh

00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:40.720
unusual and it's not because you know

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.039
you didn't care it wasn't so painful so

00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.159
so this is what we're trying to support

00:26:48.159 --> 00:26:48.919
and

00:26:48.919 --> 00:26:53.039
scaffold um in in in in the in the new

00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.120
generation that's what you're looking

00:26:56.120 --> 00:26:59.360
for some of us took a long time for that

00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:00.520
for that to

00:27:00.520 --> 00:27:04.799
happen um but these latencies these leap

00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.919
forwards are part of part of

00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:14.240
this are there ways besides

00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:19.200
like if you don't have that teacher

00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.600
or guide or whatever to reflect back to

00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:25.799
you I mean are there ways that people

00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.399
can do that themselves

00:27:28.399 --> 00:27:29.480
like are

00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.559
there

00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:35.679
things a person can do to gain that

00:27:35.679 --> 00:27:38.799
perspective on you know their parents

00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.159
and all that

00:27:40.159 --> 00:27:43.919
stuff um without going through all

00:27:43.919 --> 00:27:46.039
that you know like you said with your

00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.320
sister all that drama and

00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.399
stuff um I don't know it's an

00:27:52.399 --> 00:27:55.559
interesting question I

00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.880
mean one of the things we hope hope is

00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:02.559
that Adriana has this develops a

00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.559
practice so that she can work with

00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:07.919
people and

00:28:07.919 --> 00:28:10.360
accelerate some of it or something like

00:28:10.360 --> 00:28:13.360
that

00:28:13.919 --> 00:28:17.799
um she also has a kid yeah or more or

00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:19.840
kids that can a kid that can do that

00:28:19.840 --> 00:28:22.080
like these are some

00:28:22.080 --> 00:28:25.760
some they're extremely powerful insights

00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:27.760
that have a lot of Leverage as well I'm

00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:30.679
saying this one thing I just said has a

00:28:30.679 --> 00:28:33.559
lot of Leverage there's this is what

00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.799
kind of the course is about like these

00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:37.919
things have a lot of

00:28:37.919 --> 00:28:41.720
Leverage and

00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:46.960
um other than that nobody H knows how to

00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.679
accelerate individuation or accelerate

00:28:49.679 --> 00:28:52.720
transformation you know we don't nobody

00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:54.279
knows how

00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:57.200
to reproduce Enlightenment nobody knows

00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.640
how how to do these things it it's

00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.279
happening anyways and so for me the idea

00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.799
is this if we have a vernacular of the

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.919
insights that are important we

00:29:07.919 --> 00:29:10.679
understand that they can look as as as

00:29:10.679 --> 00:29:14.399
deviant and we can reflect that back in

00:29:14.399 --> 00:29:16.640
the interactions that we have as they

00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:20.039
come and let me say this Marie's

00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:22.240
grandfather reflected something like

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.799
that back to her when he just said

00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:30.039
that in that structure at that time like

00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:31.960
that was

00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:36.880
a here I have this grandchild I'm in

00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.799
this moment can I reflect

00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.320
something back to

00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:50.240
her 50 60 years later she remembers

00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.240
it so this is

00:29:56.320 --> 00:29:59.200
the

00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.240
principles of

00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:06.120
of um latent you know pedagogy that's

00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:09.679
looking for latency like

00:30:09.679 --> 00:30:12.980
just it's a it's a it's an art of

00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:14.039
[Music]

00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.279
seeing where

00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:22.159
latency is wanting a scaffold from the

00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:29.399
teacher and through training you can you

00:30:29.399 --> 00:30:33.559
can learn quicker to see you know like

00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:35.760
when people talk about authenticity you

00:30:35.760 --> 00:30:38.360
know they're going between narrative

00:30:38.360 --> 00:30:41.720
autobiographical to something else like

00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.919
you can see these

00:30:44.919 --> 00:30:47.919
these

00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:52.399
peculiarities um

00:30:52.399 --> 00:30:55.480
so but it's not a procedural thing it's

00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:57.519
not like do this do that and then you

00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.000
get like people individuate nobody knows

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.519
how to people

00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.399
individuate it's being able to scaffold

00:31:04.399 --> 00:31:05.320
and

00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:08.480
curate and cultivate the individuation

00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:10.559
or the latency in the people that come

00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.799
to

00:31:13.919 --> 00:31:17.480
you to speak to the

00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:21.519
latency to understand that the energy

00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.159
may be very very hot and deviant can I

00:31:24.159 --> 00:31:27.320
speak to the latency in the Deviant that

00:31:27.320 --> 00:31:30.399
like got a real problem with me like can

00:31:30.399 --> 00:31:33.840
I just keep seeing that yeah David or

00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:36.080
Phoebe I'm not

00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:38.159
sure yes

00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:40.399
so

00:31:40.399 --> 00:31:43.120
I uh one of the things that the thing

00:31:43.120 --> 00:31:45.519
that sort of came underneath the first

00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.120
latency was a sense of unbridled

00:31:50.120 --> 00:31:52.559
power that

00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:57.559
uh I didn't have any real access to but

00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:59.760
the feeling when I when I felt into it

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:02.760
be like a chimpanzee getting on a vine

00:32:02.760 --> 00:32:05.320
and and Swinging across and getting

00:32:05.320 --> 00:32:07.960
another Vine and Swinging across just as

00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.240
unbridled I can do it I can go anywhere

00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.639
I can reach I can land and and uh and

00:32:14.639 --> 00:32:17.679
then um and then I was I was thinking

00:32:17.679 --> 00:32:19.960
about that into my adulthood but what

00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.760
you just said about needing that kind of

00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:25.799
reflection or or someone looking for

00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.120
that latency when I was uh 12 I was a

00:32:30.120 --> 00:32:32.880
swimmer competitive swimmer and it was

00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.760
the thing I loved most in the entire

00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:39.360
world and but I was becoming big

00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:42.639
shouldered and muscular and so I went to

00:32:42.639 --> 00:32:45.559
my father and I said am I getting too

00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:50.240
muscular and he didn't answer me and I

00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.200
supplied the answer yes I am I must be

00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.720
because he didn't say don't you know put

00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.880
that thought out of your head you love

00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.679
to do this you keep doing this this is

00:33:01.679 --> 00:33:04.679
yours or anything like that he and so I

00:33:04.679 --> 00:33:06.639
stopped and there were other things that

00:33:06.639 --> 00:33:08.360
had happened at that point which I

00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:10.320
started to cave and go

00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:12.760
under

00:33:12.760 --> 00:33:16.360
um and then I was thinking

00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:18.200
about

00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.600
feminine Power Ra male rage has come up

00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:23.440
in other circles and I was thinking

00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:25.240
about

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.799
uh that men are male violence that women

00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:35.519
are um somehow innocent and men are bad

00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.720
and men are violent and it doesn't

00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:42.880
compute and where is female

00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.039
accountability where is the strong

00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:50.440
female the the the feminine power that

00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:55.320
uh would help to balance men and boys

00:33:55.320 --> 00:33:57.519
growing up in such a way

00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.480
that they can Revel in their strength

00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.360
and power and not you know

00:34:04.360 --> 00:34:07.440
somehow what I mean I I can't go any

00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.679
further than that but that so that so

00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.960
the thing that feels latent now again is

00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.839
power is is a

00:34:18.919 --> 00:34:22.639
um like power beyond anything I could

00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.560
imagine that I could do because that for

00:34:25.560 --> 00:34:27.679
me that was like

00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.560
beheaded and uh so there's a differeny

00:34:30.560 --> 00:34:32.960
between difference between suppression

00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.320
and latency but I think they both played

00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:41.919
together for a lot of them um and

00:34:41.919 --> 00:34:45.599
uh it does feel like feminine power is

00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.159
emerging in different ways and there's

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.679
there there aren't any thresholds for it

00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.119
in a way because well the first

00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:54.879
threshold was well women want to look

00:34:54.879 --> 00:34:56.720
like men and go to work like men and be

00:34:56.720 --> 00:35:01.000
like like men um and um I won't say

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.560
there aren't any thresholds but I think

00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:05.720
there's a lot of unknown around what

00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:09.160
does it look like

00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:12.599
for for for women to be strong and also

00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.400
for mothers to be strong with their

00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.000
children

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:21.480
uh yeah so there's a lot more there but

00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.160
that's all I want to say now Maria are

00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:25.720
you gonna speak to this or you have

00:35:25.720 --> 00:35:27.359
something else because

00:35:27.359 --> 00:35:30.000
I don't want to I want to keep on this

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.280
something something else okay so let me

00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.760
go all

00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.320
right so what your father did to you he

00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.880
would have done to a son

00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.680
also because men push against

00:35:44.680 --> 00:35:48.400
Power that approaches them so get rid of

00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.280
this like male female thing it's not

00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.440
great to be a man inside a man's world

00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.160
either because they [ __ ] push on each

00:35:57.160 --> 00:36:00.640
other all the

00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:07.000
time so this is the problem with

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:09.079
genderized

00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:12.680
power men walk down like like the street

00:36:12.680 --> 00:36:15.359
in the ghetto or a strange Street they

00:36:15.359 --> 00:36:17.599
are victims

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:21.280
also so it's not but the problem is

00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:24.079
we're smaller or you know like physical

00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.359
on physical we're smaller so this is a

00:36:26.359 --> 00:36:30.440
problem but this is the reality for

00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:33.960
those kinds of Power plays in the male

00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:39.760
world the men are exposed to it also ask

00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.079
Matt it [ __ ]

00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.200
sucks it [ __ ] sucks to have to play

00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:48.440
that

00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:51.440
game so it doesn't matter if you're a

00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.400
woman that's the game in them that

00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.240
patriarchal male whatever world

00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:00.119
and thank

00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.480
God thank

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:07.400
God there are men who do that work for

00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.680
you or

00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:16.359
try so you can't put like men in this

00:37:16.359 --> 00:37:18.720
category women in this category there's

00:37:18.720 --> 00:37:20.520
a structural

00:37:20.520 --> 00:37:23.720
power in a male

00:37:23.720 --> 00:37:27.640
World they go to work every day and they

00:37:27.640 --> 00:37:31.599
[ __ ] get that [ __ ] subtly and not so

00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:34.359
subtly every [ __ ] day I've had

00:37:34.359 --> 00:37:37.640
contractors pick up chairs and throw

00:37:37.640 --> 00:37:39.480
them at

00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:42.800
me spit in my face throw keys at me but

00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.480
they do that to the other guys like

00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.800
whatever that's what they [ __ ]

00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:55.599
do don't take it on as a feminine

00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.280
thing can I can I speak to this for a

00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.680
moment yeah sorry it's just because um I

00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:03.400
spend a lot of time with this because

00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:06.000
that's one of my latent from back then I

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.359
was speak and that's not so latent now

00:38:08.359 --> 00:38:10.599
and it is latent and in a different way

00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:12.359
mostly because I was speaking to the

00:38:12.359 --> 00:38:16.040
confusion in me as a little one is that

00:38:16.040 --> 00:38:19.480
my father that that raised me my not my

00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:21.520
biological father my stepfather is like

00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:25.119
he would be the example of patriarchy

00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.920
like he so I loved him he took me on and

00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.079
so I could see the beauty in him like

00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:33.440
everything that we condemned as wrong he

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.200
had he has but he also has the beauty of

00:38:36.200 --> 00:38:38.040
it like and I could see both and it was

00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:40.520
confusing at times and I internalized in

00:38:40.520 --> 00:38:44.440
different ways he um he says shut up P

00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:46.880
you shut up he had the force he has the

00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:48.920
everything but he also had the success

00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:50.400
and he also had the money he also had

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:51.920
the uh it was

00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.359
so um so clear to him that I became his

00:38:55.359 --> 00:38:57.560
daughter like for you know it's more

00:38:57.560 --> 00:38:59.319
confusing I have friends female friends

00:38:59.319 --> 00:39:02.359
that have taken on the step kids and

00:39:02.359 --> 00:39:04.359
they can't really take it on completely

00:39:04.359 --> 00:39:07.119
he took me on 100% like I was it was so

00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:09.240
clean as soon as he took me on I was his

00:39:09.240 --> 00:39:11.400
daughter like it was so it's a more like

00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.200
straightforward thing but it was

00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:16.440
confusing in my psyche because my

00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:20.040
expression is like I'm like like feing

00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:22.079
some like so there's a lot of things

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.359
that I'm not going to go into now

00:39:23.359 --> 00:39:24.760
because it's not relevant to the pop-up

00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.079
school but where the hormones come in

00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.760
that I feel that the disconnection from

00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:33.280
uh feminism to the body is a problem

00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:35.880
because it's not like Bonnie uses the

00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.760
words it's not a it's not a a it's it's

00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.000
a not a bug it's a feature it's a

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.079
feature not a bug so so when you have

00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.040
the follicular phase and you have

00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:50.599
estrogen in your body cortisol interacts

00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:51.920
with you in a certain way but when you

00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:54.480
have Lal phase cortisol interacts with

00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.319
you in a different way however we only

00:39:57.319 --> 00:39:59.839
know because we're always interacting

00:39:59.839 --> 00:40:01.880
with reality we're always doing this

00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.880
we're not raised in a vacuum what

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.880
happens is that what we see is the

00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.599
result of resistance so when we say PMS

00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:15.400
is the is the interface of of a very

00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.280
calming hormone which is progesterone

00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.000
interfacing with reality like this and

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.599
going like I don't [ __ ] want to do

00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.560
this [ __ ] [ __ ] today but I could do

00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:27.079
over here in my cycle so we don't know

00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:28.760
any of that because we we're not taught

00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:30.640
like that so for me Bonnie I totally

00:40:30.640 --> 00:40:33.200
agree with you but it's really confusing

00:40:33.200 --> 00:40:36.119
from a female body perspective to only

00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:39.319
have models that don't do something else

00:40:39.319 --> 00:40:41.599
like that so all my role models were

00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:43.640
saying confidence looks like this and I

00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:45.440
know that it does because sometimes I

00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.560
have it but sometimes I don't have it

00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:51.079
and then I keep framing this as wrong so

00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.079
that framing as wrong is what I have met

00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:56.359
in a lot of my life going like that

00:40:56.359 --> 00:40:58.079
contracts the

00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.960
expression that latency that Genius of

00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.280
the female body that does its thing that

00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:04.720
I know because I watched your video

00:41:04.720 --> 00:41:07.119
saying the circular and I'm with you

00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.200
because the

00:41:08.200 --> 00:41:11.160
circular it's not even the truth but I

00:41:11.160 --> 00:41:13.720
think it's a better truth than the line

00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:15.640
so I'm like it's better let's go there

00:41:15.640 --> 00:41:18.040
first because as long as you're not

00:41:18.040 --> 00:41:20.839
judging yourself from wrong and you're

00:41:20.839 --> 00:41:24.960
going like ah I'm not wrong then

00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:28.200
whatever else like Delena was saying the

00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:29.920
pregnancy she's like I wasn't like

00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:32.599
relaxed as a pregnant woman it felt like

00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:34.680
something else because then we put our

00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:37.240
constructs on top of everything else

00:41:37.240 --> 00:41:38.200
that we don't understand that's

00:41:38.200 --> 00:41:39.760
happening in the physiology and we say

00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:42.440
oh a pregnant woman's beautiful it's all

00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:44.160
other things you know like her body is

00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:45.599
trying to kill the feet like there's so

00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.119
much going on there but because we don't

00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:51.640
understand all of that yeah we simplify

00:41:51.640 --> 00:41:53.079
so anyway I'm just saying all that

00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.599
because I um I can see that from my

00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.400
little girl because I work with little

00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.400
girls a lot and in that journey of of

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.839
becoming becoming hormonal is a massive

00:42:03.839 --> 00:42:06.760
change and they do take on like the

00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.079
cortisol in that little body is

00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:11.160
different than in a little boy's body at

00:42:11.160 --> 00:42:12.319
that point because they do have

00:42:12.319 --> 00:42:14.440
testosterone which matches cortisol in a

00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:16.160
different way testosterone real these

00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:21.079
are real things I just yeah so um just

00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:27.119
to to to um Carry This forward is that

00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.319
there

00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.559
are yeah but so there's it's so much

00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.079
complexity but the point I'm making is

00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:40.040
that if if you were a male and

00:42:40.040 --> 00:42:43.000
you and your father was a certain way he

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.760
would also push back against the

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:48.640
testosterone as you're saying the the

00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:51.440
push back

00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.040
comes whether a male or a female if the

00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:57.319
push back is coming the testosterone is

00:42:57.319 --> 00:42:59.839
in the male he's going to push back if

00:42:59.839 --> 00:43:03.200
he's kind of an alpha male and the

00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:08.200
context just emerges like shows up and

00:43:08.200 --> 00:43:11.960
my point is is not that that's okay

00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.559
but the lack of understanding has

00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:18.040
creating this huge Schism between me men

00:43:18.040 --> 00:43:23.880
and women and it just really um

00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:27.680
um and then men are are they buy into it

00:43:27.680 --> 00:43:30.440
too they think that like they can

00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:33.079
navigate these relationships better

00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:34.520
because they're men or something but it

00:43:34.520 --> 00:43:37.400
still takes it takes a toll you know and

00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:43.040
so so um

00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:48.319
uh yeah I just don't think that someone

00:43:48.319 --> 00:43:50.400
I think it's it's

00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.720
not preferable for someone to take on

00:43:53.720 --> 00:43:55.079
that kind

00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:58.359
of negative experience and attach it to

00:43:58.359 --> 00:44:02.079
the fact that they are a girl or a woman

00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:06.160
or a female because that experience

00:44:06.160 --> 00:44:08.960
happens whether you're a female or a

00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:15.000
male um according to how people are and

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.559
um it's an experience that men really

00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.880
really understand and they can talk

00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.119
about it they because they have

00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:30.200
negotiated that a lot of women just like

00:44:30.200 --> 00:44:32.520
they can't deal with it I mean I get it

00:44:32.520 --> 00:44:35.280
but men really understand the brutality

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.559
of power in the male the male

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.880
system now that that power Dynamic can

00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:43.040
be also

00:44:43.040 --> 00:44:48.480
generative um but but it's agnostic to

00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:50.839
whether you're a male or female it

00:44:50.839 --> 00:44:56.960
really is if it's it's um

00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.119
yeah unless something else happens and

00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:02.920
the female then courts the male which is

00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:05.160
a way to get power over the male who's

00:45:05.160 --> 00:45:07.559
trying to treat her like a male you know

00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.760
all these things go on and on and on but

00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:13.640
that kind of push back against a power

00:45:13.640 --> 00:45:18.440
Seeker in in families we're g you know

00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.200
we can talk about that but

00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:24.880
um seeking approval and seeking power of

00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:28.200
fundamental uh Dynamics in ear in

00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:32.160
families and um these things can change

00:45:32.160 --> 00:45:34.260
based upon your your

00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:35.760
[Music]

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.839
your uh whether you're the older or the

00:45:38.839 --> 00:45:42.000
youngest sibling of whatever sex and

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.559
blah blah blah blah but just want to say

00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:48.040
that that if you were a son and you were

00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:51.040
coming up for to your father for some

00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:52.000
kind

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:57.119
of power affirmation he would be like ly

00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:01.720
to push back just as hard or not say

00:46:01.720 --> 00:46:04.200
anything

00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:06.359
or

00:46:06.359 --> 00:46:08.760
diminish uh your

00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:13.040
ambition in the same way in a different

00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:14.880
context

00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.880
um

00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:20.839
yeah does that Mak

00:46:20.839 --> 00:46:23.800
sense so I'm not I'm not forgiving him

00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:26.400
that was a hell of a push back Bonnie

00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.200
yeah but I'm just saying it's because

00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:32.440
you because you're gonna I don't want

00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.520
the thing I'm trying to avoid is people

00:46:34.520 --> 00:46:37.200
like victimizing themselves because of

00:46:37.200 --> 00:46:40.359
their sex versus understanding the power

00:46:40.359 --> 00:46:43.200
dynamics that's there

00:46:43.200 --> 00:46:45.200
regardless I mean it'd be different if

00:46:45.200 --> 00:46:46.960
he tried to seduce you because he was a

00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.240
sick [ __ ] and you know then it'd be

00:46:49.240 --> 00:46:52.200
okay he did that and that was the point

00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:55.559
right well there's another there's

00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:57.160
another another thing but it's the

00:46:57.160 --> 00:47:00.400
defense of his own power that he's going

00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.839
to reproduce in a different way for a

00:47:02.839 --> 00:47:05.720
boy or a girl

00:47:05.720 --> 00:47:08.319
and that's the

00:47:08.319 --> 00:47:11.680
problem um it just shows up in different

00:47:11.680 --> 00:47:14.200
in different

00:47:14.520 --> 00:47:17.319
ways men get humiliated women get

00:47:17.319 --> 00:47:20.400
seduced men get punched women get I

00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.760
don't know cancelled I don't know but

00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:26.119
it's what's coming at young people is

00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.280
the same

00:47:33.640 --> 00:47:35.880
thing okay I'm throwing all the

00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.680
scaffolding down I'll start

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.160
over Okay let's see we had Marie Marie

00:47:47.160 --> 00:47:49.240
you were going next and then

00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:53.000
that uh Matt can go if want to stay with

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:54.599
this thread I'm

00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:57.720
good uh

00:47:58.319 --> 00:48:00.599
um I always feel like I don't really

00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.599
need to say anything anymore um

00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:08.240
but yeah I don't know I I guess I would

00:48:08.240 --> 00:48:10.119
just

00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:13.280
say I actually do appreciate that

00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:18.920
perspective um I feel sort of affirmed

00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:23.559
in that um the one Bonnie just gave

00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.200
and yeah I noticed like I know for me

00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:29.800
I'm you know I'm probably you're more of

00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:31.920
a sensitive person like I just want to

00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.079
connect with people that's how I feel

00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.720
internally and often I notice like at

00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:40.359
work you know I work in a restaurant so

00:48:40.359 --> 00:48:43.079
like you know a lot of servers a lot of

00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:45.200
female servers but in kitchen it's more

00:48:45.200 --> 00:48:47.240
male dominated and you know the head

00:48:47.240 --> 00:48:49.920
chefs he's this big guy bald head and

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.440
like goatee right and he's I feel really

00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.839
intimidated by him but and I noticed a

00:48:55.839 --> 00:48:58.599
lot of the girls get along with him and

00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:00.599
are like oh I love him he's great but

00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:04.520
like with me it's like I notice I find

00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:06.319
it's hard to like I just want to be like

00:49:06.319 --> 00:49:08.680
hey I just want to like you know chill

00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:10.920
and just like joke around and I think if

00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:12.680
I started to just do that it would be

00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:17.400
fine but yeah I do notice that there is

00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:20.359
definitely a kind of a a thing that I

00:49:20.359 --> 00:49:22.960
don't I often times think is silly it's

00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:24.880
like can we just like chill and just

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.760
like you know like can we just have fun

00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.960
here and but it's not always the case

00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.640
which is too bad

00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.520
but yeah I mean this gets into all kinds

00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:39.760
of complexity that we can't get into in

00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:42.520
this kind of a venue but like he may be

00:49:42.520 --> 00:49:47.480
mentoring you so he's more you know like

00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:49.559
a lot of times when you're in these

00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.520
relationships it's like why do they get

00:49:51.520 --> 00:49:53.920
free lunch and he's so hard on me and he

00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:56.720
may the person maybe actually mentoring

00:49:56.720 --> 00:49:59.200
you we you know I don't know I'm just

00:49:59.200 --> 00:50:02.400
making scenarios but the process of

00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.680
individuation is

00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:09.440
is understanding

00:50:10.799 --> 00:50:13.799
that

00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:18.559
that is being able to understand that

00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.280
this is happening not because of the way

00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:24.240
I am but because of the way this person

00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:27.440
is it's like my boss the owner of the

00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.599
company you know he

00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.760
he he had this double personality like

00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:37.839
he was really charismatic and when he

00:50:37.839 --> 00:50:41.920
was courting um employees or our

00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:45.079
customers like he had this way of of his

00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:47.079
body language was really beautiful he'd

00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:49.160
hold you on the arm and escort you I

00:50:49.160 --> 00:50:50.799
mean his body language was really

00:50:50.799 --> 00:50:53.119
beautiful but he was a pathological liar

00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:54.440
and he was a

00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:58.000
narcissist so people would get hired and

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.520
they'd get really involved in him and

00:51:00.520 --> 00:51:03.200
get these big projects and then

00:51:03.200 --> 00:51:06.680
eventually like you know six eight 12

00:51:06.680 --> 00:51:10.079
months 18 months sometimes down the road

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.119
they'd be coming into my office crying

00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:13.880
and I'm like don't you get it he's an

00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:16.400
[ __ ] and and they'd be like yeah I

00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.280
could see he was an [ __ ] to everyone

00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.559
else but I didn't think he was going to

00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:23.119
be an [ __ ] to me we had a great

00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:25.839
relationship right and they kind of like

00:51:25.839 --> 00:51:28.680
banked on that that was part of their

00:51:28.680 --> 00:51:30.480
identity like he's an [ __ ] to

00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.559
everyone else but me me and then they

00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:36.720
come in crying and I'm like no he's just

00:51:36.720 --> 00:51:41.799
an [ __ ] like so so you can see that

00:51:41.799 --> 00:51:43.760
there's like velcro there's a hook in

00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:47.720
the person that's like I'm special I can

00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:50.440
see he's an [ __ ] to everyone else but

00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:52.760
he's special to me this was the grooming

00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:56.000
period you know and so the point is is

00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.119
sovereignty or being individuating is

00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.160
being able

00:52:01.160 --> 00:52:05.960
to just see things the way they are and

00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:07.400
understand well who do I want to be in

00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:09.480
this situation who am I I'm just going

00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:12.640
to show up as I am as I want to be in

00:52:12.640 --> 00:52:15.240
the situation let the chips fall that's

00:52:15.240 --> 00:52:18.319
kind of more like what individuation is

00:52:18.319 --> 00:52:20.599
it's not to be reactive or

00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:23.040
whatever the guy's an [ __ ] is an

00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:26.400
[ __ ] but maybe you know I don't care

00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:29.000
I I like my job he's an [ __ ] there's

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.160
an [ __ ] you know there's an [ __ ]

00:52:31.160 --> 00:52:32.559
in the next

00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.359
office comes in he's an [ __ ] to me

00:52:36.359 --> 00:52:40.599
but doesn't it's not like really a big

00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:44.960
deal I do notice that with him the guy

00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:48.880
the chef head chef it's like the more I

00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:51.319
of a bit I've been able to the more I

00:52:51.319 --> 00:52:55.839
can not do this scared person thing more

00:52:55.839 --> 00:52:59.359
I can just like send him jokes or just

00:52:59.359 --> 00:53:03.119
be that the more he's he respects that

00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:05.760
you can tell yeah yeah yeah so there's

00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:08.240
less velcro between you and him you know

00:53:08.240 --> 00:53:11.200
so that's the part of individuation it's

00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:13.240
very very hard when you're young because

00:53:13.240 --> 00:53:15.119
you have parents you're dependent upon

00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.880
them but as you grow older and you can

00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:19.680
start to

00:53:19.680 --> 00:53:23.079
delineate who you are from other people

00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:28.480
then um then this is part of the

00:53:31.839 --> 00:53:34.599
process like if if a little kid came up

00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:38.559
to you and said you're a you're a green

00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:42.720
haired green hairy monster who eats poop

00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:43.760
for

00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:46.640
dinner you wouldn't get triggered right

00:53:46.640 --> 00:53:50.760
because it's like that's ridiculous so

00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:54.000
like it's the ability to not to just say

00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:56.359
well this person's ridiculous like he's

00:53:56.359 --> 00:53:58.119
just shouting at me and he's out of

00:53:58.119 --> 00:53:59.920
control

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:05.000
and he's ridiculous he's defending his

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:08.000
territory can't control his own energy

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:09.319
he's just

00:54:09.319 --> 00:54:12.319
ridiculous all right well that's not

00:54:12.319 --> 00:54:14.000
interesting me I'm not going to enter

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.599
into a relationship with

00:54:19.319 --> 00:54:21.920
that if he can't stand on his own two

00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:26.640
feet he's not going to stand on my feet

00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:29.079
he's not

00:54:31.839 --> 00:54:34.839
allowed

00:54:40.520 --> 00:54:44.200
Charly so is that what individuation is

00:54:44.200 --> 00:54:47.599
all about is being able to separate

00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:50.520
oneself and recognize that it's the

00:54:50.520 --> 00:54:54.000
adult version of you're a green monster

00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.880
with you know who eats

00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:58.280
poop you know when when people are

00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:00.359
yelling right because I can't do that

00:55:00.359 --> 00:55:02.200
right I I take it personally it's like

00:55:02.200 --> 00:55:03.160
oh this

00:55:03.160 --> 00:55:06.880
person has a judgment and I have to

00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:08.599
respect that and oh my God they're

00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:12.400
probably right I suck

00:55:14.520 --> 00:55:16.160
and

00:55:16.160 --> 00:55:20.280
yes exactly that's that's the um initial

00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:22.960
stages of

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.000
individuation

00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:33.160
thanks I guess I'll jump into the oh go

00:55:33.160 --> 00:55:35.680
ahead no no no you go Chie I was gonna

00:55:35.680 --> 00:55:36.839
ask a

00:55:36.839 --> 00:55:39.920
question I was just gonna offer that you

00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:45.039
know I was within with Justin and he

00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:47.839
empathy was what was Laten for him when

00:55:47.839 --> 00:55:51.440
he was young and then he tried to make

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.480
the case that

00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:56.160
relatedness was late

00:55:56.160 --> 00:55:59.640
now for him but as he was telling me it

00:55:59.640 --> 00:56:01.520
was obviously manifested so he decided

00:56:01.520 --> 00:56:04.119
the self was was

00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:07.480
latent not himself the self but that's a

00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:10.119
different thing so my

00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:13.640
latency when I was young I first thought

00:56:13.640 --> 00:56:15.920
was spirituality but that was like an

00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.400
immediate answer when you asked it and I

00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:22.200
realized that wasn't true so what makes

00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:24.280
much more sense for me in terms of a

00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:28.319
latency when I was younger was like a

00:56:28.319 --> 00:56:31.640
broader appreciation of the

00:56:31.640 --> 00:56:35.240
artistic and you know eventually that

00:56:35.240 --> 00:56:36.240
that

00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:39.400
manifested um through working with Clay

00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:43.480
of all things awesome and and so when I

00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:45.960
look at what might be latent

00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:49.280
now um I decided that

00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:51.680
tolerance

00:56:51.680 --> 00:56:55.000
perhaps can I eventually become tolerant

00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:57.640
of other people even though I know I'm

00:56:57.640 --> 00:57:00.520
always right and they're always

00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:02.880
wrong so that's really good is the

00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:06.280
noticing that there's

00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:09.960
something no accepting and recognizing

00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:12.640
you're here but noticing that

00:57:12.640 --> 00:57:17.000
there's there's always movement

00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:21.200
toward what's latent in

00:57:21.200 --> 00:57:25.520
you and that's very healthy and it

00:57:25.520 --> 00:57:27.280
doesn't come from your own accord you

00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:29.920
don't make it up right I mean sometimes

00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:32.400
we like oh what's late in me is I'm

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:34.079
going to sell this house and I'm G to

00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.440
build a school like these these aren't

00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:39.839
latency these are plans

00:57:39.839 --> 00:57:42.960
and projections into the future but this

00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:44.599
this feeling of

00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:49.880
latency that self arises is yeah it's

00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.799
really it's really

00:57:52.799 --> 00:57:57.480
interesting Adriana oh Justin now I

00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:00.160
just if Marie still wanted to say

00:58:00.160 --> 00:58:03.119
whatever she had to

00:58:09.359 --> 00:58:12.760
say um I was just uh wanted to ask a

00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.799
question I was curious about

00:58:15.799 --> 00:58:18.760
um two thing no one thing that you

00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:20.200
mentioned in one of the previous

00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:23.079
sessions which is the ex forcation and

00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:26.240
then and then together with the notion

00:58:26.240 --> 00:58:29.200
of transcend and include in your sense

00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:31.319
of what we're doing here of the new

00:58:31.319 --> 00:58:35.640
human and in this new human um does that

00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:37.400
that notion that Ken Wilber brings or

00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:39.359
other people bring uh of transcendent

00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:42.440
include does it still hold up in this

00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:44.760
view because I was just feeling into

00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:46.440
like some things that we were talking

00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:48.480
about latency and and when there's

00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:51.119
something contracted in the system which

00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.000
does seem to be something we haven't

00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.240
included and then it kind of releases

00:58:55.240 --> 00:58:58.680
the energy to kind of so I was just yeah

00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:01.440
I'd love to hear more

00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.720
and yeah this is an interesting question

00:59:04.720 --> 00:59:08.000
let me see if I can make

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:13.319
it relevant um

00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:16.799
so latency is

00:59:16.799 --> 00:59:19.280
I'm thinking about it you could think

00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:23.200
about it in in different ways um so the

00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:26.720
term transcendent transcend and include

00:59:26.720 --> 00:59:30.039
is important because you don't want to

00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:33.200
have Shadow you know I transcend this

00:59:33.200 --> 00:59:35.200
and then I repress

00:59:35.200 --> 00:59:40.640
that um but in terms of

00:59:40.640 --> 00:59:43.720
individuation in terms of the new human

00:59:43.720 --> 00:59:45.559
in terms of my

00:59:45.559 --> 00:59:49.480
work um there there's it's more

00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:51.680
Garian um

00:59:51.680 --> 00:59:58.119
that you you leap ahead and for that to

00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.559
happen some things have to be exting

01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:03.559
extinguished you have to leave certain

01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:07.760
things behind you remember them you're

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:09.480
happy for them but you're happy that

01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:10.680
they're left

01:00:10.680 --> 01:00:13.520
behind so like identity you don't want

01:00:13.520 --> 01:00:16.799
to transcend and include all your

01:00:16.799 --> 01:00:19.440
identity you want to in the identity

01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:23.079
project you transcend your previous

01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:25.480
identities and then your relationship to

01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.000
your previous identities is one of

01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:31.119
compassion you understand the context in

01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:35.079
which you were like that maybe that's

01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:38.440
include I don't know

01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.400
um so it depends how you use those words

01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:47.200
you know um but the uh ARCA

01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:48.260
transformation

01:00:48.260 --> 01:00:49.960
[Music]

01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:53.200
is populated by Extinction events which

01:00:53.200 --> 01:00:56.520
makes it makes it

01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:03.480
difficult um so so

01:01:05.319 --> 01:01:10.880
um this is a very big uh meditation on

01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.960
loss and grief um we'll work at we'll

01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:17.559
we'll revisit it in the lyric culture

01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:21.440
because lyric philosophy is in many

01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:25.720
cases coming to terms with loss

01:01:25.720 --> 01:01:27.720
um

01:01:27.720 --> 01:01:30.720
um so I wouldn't say it's a transcend

01:01:30.720 --> 01:01:34.640
and include it's a transcend

01:01:34.640 --> 01:01:38.839
and uh leave behind and be

01:01:38.839 --> 01:01:41.880
surprised um you have to make space for

01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:42.799
something

01:01:42.799 --> 01:01:45.839
new so it's not developmental right it's

01:01:45.839 --> 01:01:50.599
not it doesn't keep accumulating like

01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:53.720
that um so I would make that distinction

01:01:53.720 --> 01:01:57.490
in terms of what I'm looking at

01:01:57.490 --> 01:02:00.039
[Music]

01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:02.279
um what was the second part of your

01:02:02.279 --> 01:02:03.880
question there was that question and

01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:05.440
then something

01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:08.200
else I think I was just also curious

01:02:08.200 --> 01:02:10.680
about the exf forcation and exf foration

01:02:10.680 --> 01:02:13.920
and maybe and maybe if there is a if the

01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.720
exf forcation in your model and in your

01:02:16.720 --> 01:02:18.319
mind

01:02:18.319 --> 01:02:20.119
is

01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:23.520
um because in my mind it's almost like I

01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:26.839
could see can to I love the expectation

01:02:26.839 --> 01:02:29.799
and and I but I there's still in my mind

01:02:29.799 --> 01:02:32.720
I can still see the three like the the

01:02:32.720 --> 01:02:36.640
two that like there's some prior to that

01:02:36.640 --> 01:02:38.400
or something and I don't know if that's

01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:42.279
just anyway that that's

01:02:44.319 --> 01:02:48.000
um yeah I suppose there's a structure

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:51.119
yeah we tend to see change

01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:54.760
as something you know like always two

01:02:54.760 --> 01:03:00.240
roads two roads diverge upon a path and

01:03:00.240 --> 01:03:04.279
um when let's say you lead leave

01:03:04.279 --> 01:03:06.559
something behind so the problem with

01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:08.960
bifurcation is it can lead to Shadow

01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:11.200
because there's two things and you leave

01:03:11.200 --> 01:03:12.440
this one

01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:16.240
behind and so it always is the shadow of

01:03:16.240 --> 01:03:20.760
this one versus you know so I leave my

01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.640
competitive person behind and so now I'm

01:03:23.640 --> 01:03:25.119
more

01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:27.000
agreeable let's

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.599
say versus I leave that person behind

01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:31.520
and

01:03:31.520 --> 01:03:34.559
now there's this whole array of

01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:36.319
possibility

01:03:36.319 --> 01:03:39.039
explication they're not determined by

01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:41.480
just this dualistic relationship with

01:03:41.480 --> 01:03:43.400
the

01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:47.079
past and so like

01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:51.559
so um exitation just means now how many

01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:54.880
possibilities are there right so

01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:58.799
so um I've been too patriarchal in the

01:03:58.799 --> 01:04:01.839
past I'm going to be more feminine well

01:04:01.839 --> 01:04:05.799
that still is in the dualistic of

01:04:05.799 --> 01:04:08.960
masculine and feminine I'm not g to be

01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:10.760
like that

01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:13.240
anymore oh look at all these ways I can

01:04:13.240 --> 01:04:14.640
be you see the

01:04:14.640 --> 01:04:17.640
difference so as long as we can continue

01:04:17.640 --> 01:04:19.839
to think in terms of bifurcation we're

01:04:19.839 --> 01:04:23.279
in a dualistic structure entanglement of

01:04:23.279 --> 01:04:26.200
opposites

01:04:28.720 --> 01:04:32.039
so that's the POS that's that's the idea

01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:33.880
of

01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:37.520
explication that there's there's not a

01:04:37.520 --> 01:04:40.200
bifurcation I mean Martin Luther King

01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:42.799
didn't say it this way but he never said

01:04:42.799 --> 01:04:44.520
that we should

01:04:44.520 --> 01:04:47.480
recompensate black people for the

01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:50.079
injustices they have he said black

01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:53.119
people and white people have to become

01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:54.960
new people

01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:58.839
and something new can be

01:04:58.839 --> 01:05:02.160
born this was tremendously ahead of a

01:05:02.160 --> 01:05:04.640
time now we have all black people have

01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:07.240
to be compensated for the injustices of

01:05:07.240 --> 01:05:09.960
white people that's a

01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:13.520
bifurcation so that's a vectorial

01:05:13.520 --> 01:05:16.960
vication and so we want to get more on

01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.920
the page of what someone like Martin

01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:21.640
Luther King thought

01:05:21.640 --> 01:05:24.640
of that funny

01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.559
yeah the bifurcation like puts an

01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:28.119
enclosure

01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:32.440
around um the um the field of potentials

01:05:32.440 --> 01:05:36.160
yeah it doesn't exit the structure so it

01:05:36.160 --> 01:05:39.000
includes but doesn't actually transcend

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:40.839
this is why I emphasize Extinction

01:05:40.839 --> 01:05:44.400
events I mean Extinction events are very

01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.799
important um and we have to be able to

01:05:47.799 --> 01:05:52.079
be with that dynamic in

01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:56.480
evolutionary leap so in in terms of this

01:05:56.480 --> 01:05:58.240
module what it gets

01:05:58.240 --> 01:06:00.599
extinguished what goes extinct is your

01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:02.440
previous

01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:04.559
identity when you're in narrative

01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.960
coherence you keep updating so you

01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:09.440
include the whole thing you go back and

01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:12.079
revise and this and that and then what

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:14.960
gets you know so you have to

01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:17.480
have and some of you talked about what

01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:20.319
was lat you know what these experiences

01:06:20.319 --> 01:06:23.359
like drugs and Allen Watts they exting

01:06:23.359 --> 01:06:24.880
they extinguish

01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.720
something like literally I mean this is

01:06:27.720 --> 01:06:29.200
another thing we could talk about like

01:06:29.200 --> 01:06:32.200
someone asked me the other

01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:36.760
day this will not be a surprise to

01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:39.799
you I have I have a problem being

01:06:39.799 --> 01:06:41.680
empathetic it's hard for me to be

01:06:41.680 --> 01:06:44.359
empathetic with certain people who are

01:06:44.359 --> 01:06:46.839
navigating certain stages because I

01:06:46.839 --> 01:06:49.039
don't feel that anymore like I can't

01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:51.880
even tell a contemporary I can tell like

01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:55.880
a story of the p i I can't can't get

01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.720
into that State

01:06:59.720 --> 01:07:01.960
anymore like some of these like

01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.520
discursive reasoning and worrying about

01:07:04.520 --> 01:07:07.240
this and that they just it just doesn't

01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:10.640
they they don't happen to me

01:07:10.640 --> 01:07:13.720
anymore so this is why it's good you

01:07:13.720 --> 01:07:15.119
guys have

01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:19.520
conversations um so so yeah so

01:07:19.520 --> 01:07:22.599
Extinction events are something you know

01:07:22.599 --> 01:07:24.920
this is a hard constru right is things

01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:26.920
are

01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:30.520
impermanent and things get extinguished

01:07:30.520 --> 01:07:34.160
and they're gone and this is tremendous

01:07:34.160 --> 01:07:36.319
possibility to work

01:07:36.319 --> 01:07:40.119
with tremendous

01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:55.920
possibility an

01:07:57.240 --> 01:07:59.200
thanks I'm chair Justin would you like

01:07:59.200 --> 01:08:01.319
to respond to

01:08:01.319 --> 01:08:03.760
Bonnie's no because I've got another

01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:09.000
question actually so okay

01:08:09.200 --> 01:08:12.640
um I don't know where to start I'm I was

01:08:12.640 --> 01:08:15.640
it was beautiful to be in the in the

01:08:15.640 --> 01:08:17.600
breakout room with Marie because there

01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:19.880
were I saw a lot of patterns and

01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:22.560
similarities and like these biomarkers

01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.000
of when she was talking about

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.920
grandfather it was like yes I recognize

01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:29.960
that for my grandfather but and and I

01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:33.600
was almost seeing like some parameters

01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:38.400
or like um signs um that's that's one of

01:08:38.400 --> 01:08:40.040
the things that has been latent in me

01:08:40.040 --> 01:08:42.679
like seeing autoing patterns things that

01:08:42.679 --> 01:08:46.480
repeat themselves as a pattern in nature

01:08:46.480 --> 01:08:48.880
and it is a pattern in Behavior or

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:51.600
pattern in energy fields or a pattern in

01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:54.279
relationships or a pattern so and

01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:57.679
there's also what I've noticed is like

01:08:57.679 --> 01:09:01.199
there's this Attunement and and like a

01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:04.319
transmission without or beyond words

01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:07.120
that happened and an allowing of some

01:09:07.120 --> 01:09:08.960
key people

01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:12.480
in while growing up so one of those key

01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:14.920
people was my grandfather and my dad and

01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:18.080
my mother while being in a really [ __ ]

01:09:18.080 --> 01:09:20.960
up relationship because you know being

01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:23.199
individuated or I don't know if I can I

01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:25.880
can say that just seeing them for who

01:09:25.880 --> 01:09:28.520
they are and saying [ __ ] no what

01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:31.279
you're [ __ ] doing guys is wrong you

01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:33.279
I'm not your [ __ ] parent here and I

01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:35.799
could say that when I was six or seven

01:09:35.799 --> 01:09:36.880
and they were

01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:39.640
like okay let's sit at the table and we

01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:41.960
had discussions about stuff going on

01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:43.719
like that

01:09:43.719 --> 01:09:46.640
and but but but still there was this

01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:49.560
connection with nature and when you see

01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:52.719
things or when I when you are in those

01:09:52.719 --> 01:09:54.880
spaces it's not being in the spaces you

01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.719
are you're at home because when you're

01:09:56.719 --> 01:09:59.360
speaking it's not that I speak but

01:09:59.360 --> 01:10:01.360
itself with a capital s that speaks

01:10:01.360 --> 01:10:03.960
through you it's everything behind you

01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:06.040
that comes through you it's and the

01:10:06.040 --> 01:10:08.520
trees and the wind and the water and

01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:10.719
everything all the elements are there

01:10:10.719 --> 01:10:12.560
and this is this power that comes

01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:13.840
through you because you know this is

01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:16.159
[ __ ] right this is reality there's

01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:19.040
nothing else than this and recognizing

01:10:19.040 --> 01:10:21.760
that and standing in and coming from

01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:26.360
that place humbles you way but

01:10:26.360 --> 01:10:29.640
also recognizes that it is important to

01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:32.760
actually speak up when that is wanting

01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.280
to come through you and when you speak

01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:37.360
to that it speaks to everything and

01:10:37.360 --> 01:10:39.560
everyone there and then it's the

01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:41.480
recognition and a transmission that

01:10:41.480 --> 01:10:44.159
opens that up for others recognizing to

01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:46.920
to recognize the place where this is

01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:47.880
coming

01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:50.320
from

01:10:50.320 --> 01:10:54.880
and I can see parameters like

01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:58.080
seeing when you're allowed to see things

01:10:58.080 --> 01:11:00.239
without being closed off so it's not

01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:02.640
being put dormant you're not being put

01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:05.960
asleep by culture or people but it is

01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:07.840
actually the latency that has the

01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:10.440
capacity to come online again and

01:11:10.440 --> 01:11:13.239
therefore it's it's this undercurrent

01:11:13.239 --> 01:11:15.320
where new things arise it's like this

01:11:15.320 --> 01:11:17.760
spring well that keeps up bubbling

01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:20.920
things and and I think that's a real big

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:22.760
thing that I recognize or like a

01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:25.560
biomarker that I see in my body is

01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:28.360
trusting this place but I am also very

01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:30.880
grateful for everyone I had in my life

01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:34.159
who allowed me to come from this place

01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:36.400
because otherwise you

01:11:36.400 --> 01:11:38.719
know it would have been put dormant

01:11:38.719 --> 01:11:41.440
asleep and not the latency asleep but

01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:44.199
really closed

01:11:44.639 --> 01:11:47.440
off yeah so there's something here

01:11:47.440 --> 01:11:49.960
that's really big in this work and that

01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:54.920
is if you are someone who can have a

01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:56.520
perspective on the adults that they

01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.480
don't have on themselves let's just say

01:11:59.480 --> 01:12:02.400
that you know they love you and they're

01:12:02.400 --> 01:12:03.880
doing the best they can so there's no

01:12:03.880 --> 01:12:06.360
trauma Associated then where do you go

01:12:06.360 --> 01:12:09.000
you you can't go further into culture

01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.679
you already see that it's kind of made a

01:12:12.679 --> 01:12:14.000
wrong

01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:16.880
turn and this notion of going back to

01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.520
the middle layer so so what I mean by

01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:23.000
the middle layer is plants and trees and

01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.600
Forest and lakes and animals because a

01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:27.880
lot of transcendent spirituality will

01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:31.880
have you go back to like God and the

01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:34.719
source and energy and information like

01:12:34.719 --> 01:12:37.400
all these extremely Transcendent

01:12:37.400 --> 01:12:40.840
abstract terms but it's this middle

01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:42.480
layer

01:12:42.480 --> 01:12:47.400
that never appears in or rarely appears

01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:51.239
in religions anymore uh certainly a big

01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.679
part of indigenous religion

01:12:54.679 --> 01:12:57.600
where you get information you get

01:12:57.600 --> 01:12:59.040
information

01:12:59.040 --> 01:13:02.040
about how things can

01:13:02.040 --> 01:13:04.880
relate uh it's not always beautiful like

01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:07.000
you know you can sit as a child and see

01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:10.520
ants destroying each battling other ants

01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:13.600
and it's not just beautiful so we're not

01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:16.760
talking about that which is a problem

01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:18.440
like you know in the state parks now

01:13:18.440 --> 01:13:20.400
that you go on these trails and then

01:13:20.400 --> 01:13:21.679
they have these big things and

01:13:21.679 --> 01:13:23.480
everything talks about how beautiful

01:13:23.480 --> 01:13:25.639
everything is and it's just more blah

01:13:25.639 --> 01:13:30.320
blah blah so this notion of finding

01:13:30.320 --> 01:13:34.199
ground in nature and

01:13:34.199 --> 01:13:37.320
then going orthogonal what's a culture

01:13:37.320 --> 01:13:39.639
that newly emerges from this

01:13:39.639 --> 01:13:44.440
intelligence in nature versus trying to

01:13:44.440 --> 01:13:47.120
include the culture that you have you

01:13:47.120 --> 01:13:49.080
know you can invite people in you see

01:13:49.080 --> 01:13:52.760
these these aspects that are interesting

01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:57.000
but in many cases not all um young

01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.520
people realize was certainly the case

01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:04.840
for me that their adults they talk about

01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:06.679
their nature and they have this Disney

01:14:06.679 --> 01:14:09.719
kind of concept about nature and they

01:14:09.719 --> 01:14:11.960
like to go for but they don't have any

01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:14.360
relationship to Nature and you start to

01:14:14.360 --> 01:14:19.120
realize like this is

01:14:19.320 --> 01:14:22.880
like part of what's wrong with them like

01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:27.400
they're just just in this movie

01:14:27.400 --> 01:14:30.960
called conent conventional

01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:36.159
reality um and then so this is extremely

01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:40.639
powerful um needs to be worked out

01:14:40.639 --> 01:14:43.639
better

01:14:45.280 --> 01:14:48.159
um and then they they they find all

01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:50.800
their solace in la la land I'm going to

01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:53.719
heaven or whatever you know it's just

01:14:53.719 --> 01:14:57.280
like La La Land um

01:14:57.280 --> 01:15:00.320
so so there's something definitely in

01:15:00.320 --> 01:15:03.199
there

01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:07.440
um that's also a big part of

01:15:11.360 --> 01:15:14.360
this

01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:19.560
Justin I've noticed that um when I slow

01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:22.920
down enough I I use this analogy in my

01:15:22.920 --> 01:15:25.639
own about a roulette wheel that my

01:15:25.639 --> 01:15:27.159
perspective since we're talking about

01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:29.000
about perspective the ball the marble

01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:30.719
bounces off a thing and it lands

01:15:30.719 --> 01:15:33.239
somewhere and every if I slowed down

01:15:33.239 --> 01:15:34.600
enough I could see oh I could see the

01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:36.440
last couple before it landed there and I

01:15:36.440 --> 01:15:37.760
can actually choose whether I want to

01:15:37.760 --> 01:15:40.239
land there and what came to me I'm

01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:42.880
reading this book called on the origins

01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:45.080
of time it was Stephen Hawkings final

01:15:45.080 --> 01:15:47.280
theories about time and I think he said

01:15:47.280 --> 01:15:49.520
Richard Fineman but he said well the

01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:52.159
electron going through the double slit

01:15:52.159 --> 01:15:55.880
experiments go takes every single path

01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:58.800
all of them he said they can go in one

01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:00.280
it can go in both it can go in neither

01:16:00.280 --> 01:16:01.920
it can make a U-turn it could go back in

01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:04.480
time he said that was [ __ ] blew my

01:16:04.480 --> 01:16:09.320
mind and it it's almost like part of my

01:16:09.320 --> 01:16:12.520
project is the inculturation has

01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:14.159
narrowed the

01:16:14.159 --> 01:16:16.560
probabilities of all those paths I could

01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:19.360
take and the more I loosen myself up the

01:16:19.360 --> 01:16:21.520
more options of where

01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:24.480
that perspective can

01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:28.840
land and if I'm slow enough I can then

01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:33.159
have an option to choose which will I

01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:37.880
land yeah so that's the the whole uh

01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:40.080
point of complex potential States they

01:16:40.080 --> 01:16:42.920
include multiple

01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:46.239
Futures and in between actual occasions

01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:49.760
as Whitehead would say um many of these

01:16:49.760 --> 01:16:53.199
things are in play at the same time but

01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:56.880
but what actually happens is that which

01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.400
can achieve a threshold event it's very

01:17:00.400 --> 01:17:02.280
much like the way the brain works so

01:17:02.280 --> 01:17:04.080
we're saying the universe works the same

01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:05.960
way the brain works and the qu and the

01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:09.040
point is is

01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:14.520
that every time you

01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:17.880
choose another possibility you add a

01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:21.199
little potential in that

01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:24.560
direction and that potentials subsist so

01:17:24.560 --> 01:17:26.760
maybe not for another 10 years there's

01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:28.520
enough people in that direction to

01:17:28.520 --> 01:17:31.199
create a threshold event but it doesn't

01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:34.280
just fail that's the whole point

01:17:34.280 --> 01:17:36.679
whatever you do doesn't just fail it

01:17:36.679 --> 01:17:40.280
subsists in the potential field you add

01:17:40.280 --> 01:17:43.760
you amplify some directions and not

01:17:43.760 --> 01:17:48.199
others and so um this is the sense of

01:17:48.199 --> 01:17:51.159
agency inside of

01:17:51.159 --> 01:17:56.239
complex global system Dynamics so um if

01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:59.159
we understood that then we wouldn't say

01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:00.760
oh I failed now I'm just going to be

01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:02.920
conventional again but if you understood

01:18:02.920 --> 01:18:04.360
every time you

01:18:04.360 --> 01:18:07.159
choose something else on the spectrum of

01:18:07.159 --> 01:18:10.560
possibility that it adds up and it

01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:13.440
doesn't uh die

01:18:13.440 --> 01:18:16.440
out

01:18:17.719 --> 01:18:21.040
um that it adds it it shapes the

01:18:21.040 --> 01:18:23.199
potential field for the next moment then

01:18:23.199 --> 01:18:27.400
you understand the war of the flea the

01:18:27.400 --> 01:18:30.320
fleas sufficient number of fleas

01:18:30.320 --> 01:18:34.440
marching in unison across a bridge will

01:18:34.440 --> 01:18:35.960
topple the

01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:39.280
bridge um it's just a hard constraints a

01:18:39.280 --> 01:18:42.080
laot of nature so something like that

01:18:42.080 --> 01:18:45.520
something to understand and and the and

01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:47.760
the beauty of it is you don't even have

01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.040
to caly and make the same Choice every

01:18:50.040 --> 01:18:52.400
time you just make the another different

01:18:52.400 --> 01:18:55.400
Choice every every time and it it's it's

01:18:55.400 --> 01:19:00.239
the same pull away so you undermine it

01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:01.840
you can undermine it through multiple

01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:03.440
directions you know you don't have to

01:19:03.440 --> 01:19:06.880
just choose one and then start to canaly

01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:09.199
that so

01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:12.199
that's

01:19:17.000 --> 01:19:19.600
yeah I mean there's some amazing things

01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:22.040
people probably don't like L on musk I

01:19:22.040 --> 01:19:25.719
don't like him but talk about latency

01:19:25.719 --> 01:19:27.320
have you did you see the his interview

01:19:27.320 --> 01:19:30.000
with the New York

01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:33.400
Times I mean the guy is like I can't I

01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:34.800
don't understand if he's friends with

01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:37.120
Elon he gets to ask really personal

01:19:37.120 --> 01:19:40.639
questions about how elon's M mind is is

01:19:40.639 --> 01:19:44.760
a storm and stuff but he said like you

01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:47.639
know aren't you worried like all these

01:19:47.639 --> 01:19:52.120
all these companies won't won't uh won't

01:19:52.120 --> 01:19:55.560
advertise a on Twitter anymore because

01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:57.840
of your politics you know you let Donald

01:19:57.840 --> 01:19:59.560
Trump back and you said this and you

01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:00.679
said

01:20:00.679 --> 01:20:03.239
that and he said like well [ __ ] them

01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:05.080
don't [ __ ] advertise with me I'm not

01:20:05.080 --> 01:20:08.199
gonna be blackmailed [ __ ] them because

01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:11.199
he said the Earth will unknow that

01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:14.440
Twitter failed not because of me but

01:20:14.440 --> 01:20:15.719
because of

01:20:15.719 --> 01:20:19.679
them you know I mean it's just like like

01:20:19.679 --> 01:20:21.000
these

01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:26.639
extraordinary breaths of fresh air to to

01:20:26.639 --> 01:20:28.560
Buck the

01:20:28.560 --> 01:20:31.239
system he's like yeah well people then

01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:34.199
will decide did I ruin do did I ruin

01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:37.280
Twitter because I kept I did what I did

01:20:37.280 --> 01:20:39.639
or did they ruin Twitter because they

01:20:39.639 --> 01:20:42.120
got together and they boycotted

01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:44.719
me I don't know he just lets it up to

01:20:44.719 --> 01:20:46.199
the Earth he calls it the earth the

01:20:46.199 --> 01:20:47.639
earth is a

01:20:47.639 --> 01:20:49.960
side

01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:54.719
and I think we need

01:20:57.719 --> 01:20:59.960
you know it's a it's a total reversal of

01:20:59.960 --> 01:21:02.120
what people in companies really usually

01:21:02.120 --> 01:21:04.520
worry

01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:07.600
about they acques to like the pressure

01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:10.800
of advertisers and okay they slowly lose

01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:11.679
their

01:21:11.679 --> 01:21:14.480
sovereignty now you might say okay he

01:21:14.480 --> 01:21:17.360
can he can he can do that because he's

01:21:17.360 --> 01:21:20.400
rich but you know there's $44 billion

01:21:20.400 --> 01:21:22.960
dollar on the line and that's it's hard

01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:26.800
for him too so I think that

01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:29.920
um yeah so what you're saying is there's

01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:33.639
a lot more choices and if you don't have

01:21:33.639 --> 01:21:35.360
to do the same thing all the time but if

01:21:35.360 --> 01:21:37.800
you always kind

01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:42.239
of go outside then then that creates

01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:44.080
that moves toward a threshold event I

01:21:44.080 --> 01:21:45.520
think we're all doing that I mean we're

01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:50.480
all all aspects of that

01:21:51.639 --> 01:21:55.679
um and to help people be confident that

01:21:55.679 --> 01:21:57.080
people that you know that are doing the

01:21:57.080 --> 01:21:58.360
same thing be

01:21:58.360 --> 01:22:01.520
confident in that

01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:03.159
um

01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:06.159
yeah

01:22:08.280 --> 01:22:13.320
Marie she finally comes back around

01:22:13.320 --> 01:22:16.239
Marie well the conversation came back

01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:20.840
around to what I was uh originally gonna

01:22:20.840 --> 01:22:24.280
say I think I think this is related to

01:22:24.280 --> 01:22:27.040
what you're to what you're saying and

01:22:27.040 --> 01:22:30.080
it's just it was two thoughts I'm back

01:22:30.080 --> 01:22:31.080
to my

01:22:31.080 --> 01:22:33.880
grandfather and

01:22:33.880 --> 01:22:37.159
um and after I shared that story with

01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:39.560
Anna there were two thoughts that came

01:22:39.560 --> 01:22:43.080
to me that were

01:22:43.080 --> 01:22:46.600
um um I'm going to share now the first

01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:49.080
one was

01:22:49.080 --> 01:22:53.960
that like what I experienced then

01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:58.159
it was a transmission like it felt like

01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.120
a genuine

01:23:00.120 --> 01:23:02.760
transmission and then the second thought

01:23:02.760 --> 01:23:06.199
which I think is um this is a bit of a

01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:10.280
question related to what it is you were

01:23:10.280 --> 01:23:13.639
you were saying is

01:23:13.639 --> 01:23:17.239
that um in reflecting on that it touched

01:23:17.239 --> 01:23:21.400
me to think nothing's

01:23:21.480 --> 01:23:23.080
lost

01:23:23.080 --> 01:23:27.360
like here we are however many decades

01:23:27.360 --> 01:23:32.719
later and that little moment

01:23:32.719 --> 01:23:35.719
that

01:23:36.159 --> 01:23:40.520
um it it it wasn't

01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:43.880
lost that's

01:23:44.120 --> 01:23:48.040
it yeah so that's an important um

01:23:48.040 --> 01:23:50.080
addition to extinction of that things

01:23:50.080 --> 01:23:53.960
can go extinct but they're never lost so

01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:55.280
it's different

01:23:55.280 --> 01:23:58.639
than trying to keep including you know

01:23:58.639 --> 01:24:00.880
so like I have this and that and I have

01:24:00.880 --> 01:24:04.920
this and that and I have this and that

01:24:04.920 --> 01:24:08.639
versus you know um Sandy and I go end of

01:24:08.639 --> 01:24:11.760
an era and then we just get on like we

01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:14.000
have these losses and they're really

01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:17.360
grieving and then you go end of an era

01:24:17.360 --> 01:24:20.440
but there's it's never really lost you

01:24:20.440 --> 01:24:22.480
appreciate them for having you got

01:24:22.480 --> 01:24:23.719
gotten you

01:24:23.719 --> 01:24:26.320
here

01:24:26.320 --> 01:24:29.800
um and it's and without effort they are

01:24:29.800 --> 01:24:36.199
part of the new Mo moment but it's this

01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:38.840
this so I was just saying depends what

01:24:38.840 --> 01:24:42.560
Transcendent include means like

01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:46.760
um but there's there's this sense of

01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:48.600
like well you know the Dinosaurs Aren't

01:24:48.600 --> 01:24:50.600
lost because they're they're chickens

01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:52.360
now you know and there's more chicken

01:24:52.360 --> 01:24:55.320
chickens than ever the word Dino there's

01:24:55.320 --> 01:24:57.760
more biomass in chickens than dinosaurs

01:24:57.760 --> 01:25:00.679
or something um there's a continuity I

01:25:00.679 --> 01:25:02.400
mean this is part of what we're working

01:25:02.400 --> 01:25:04.360
on we'll be working on The Once and

01:25:04.360 --> 01:25:07.960
Future God the the the the concept of

01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:11.520
Once and Future means there's continuity

01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:14.040
and there's

01:25:14.040 --> 01:25:17.080
discontinuity so you just just keep

01:25:17.080 --> 01:25:19.199
going back to the first you know the

01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:21.480
metaphor of the first amoeba it's not

01:25:21.480 --> 01:25:23.199
there it's

01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:26.719
gone you can't even find it you

01:25:26.719 --> 01:25:30.400
can't but it's not

01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:35.600
lost right there's something there's

01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:38.760
something because so it's a perfect

01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:43.440
metaphor for this thing but

01:25:43.440 --> 01:25:46.320
when people usually say Transcendent

01:25:46.320 --> 01:25:49.199
include from a psychological perspective

01:25:49.199 --> 01:25:53.040
they want the two baby amibas and and

01:25:53.040 --> 01:25:55.159
they want the first amoeba

01:25:55.159 --> 01:25:57.679
to that's what they usually mean by

01:25:57.679 --> 01:26:00.639
transc they want their new identity

01:26:00.639 --> 01:26:04.560
and they want their old identity too and

01:26:04.560 --> 01:26:09.280
this is not healthy so I'm not sure what

01:26:09.280 --> 01:26:13.239
Wilbur meant he probably meant this more

01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:16.679
like high uh this higher understanding

01:26:16.679 --> 01:26:19.960
of it but the way it got translated into

01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:23.960
popular integral thinking was

01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:26.159
accumulative not this notion of what

01:26:26.159 --> 01:26:27.800
you're saying it's gone but it's not

01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:30.760
lost right so this powerful metaphor

01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:32.639
about the first

01:26:32.639 --> 01:26:36.199
amoeba um my previous identity is gone

01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:41.000
thank God done with it but it's not

01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:43.520
lost you see the difference I don't know

01:26:43.520 --> 01:26:45.679
how else to say it I mean I'm writing

01:26:45.679 --> 01:26:48.119
about it in very complex terms with

01:26:48.119 --> 01:26:49.880
internal and external relations blah

01:26:49.880 --> 01:26:52.520
blah blah blah blah blah but this this

01:26:52.520 --> 01:26:57.000
this feeling tone of it um would you say

01:26:57.000 --> 01:26:58.840
something to I mean like it exists in

01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:02.239
the record of of it doesn't have a

01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:05.840
record the record is too much of a like

01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:07.880
you can go find it

01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:12.159
somewhere it's it's um it's something

01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:14.400
different I don't know how to say it it

01:27:14.400 --> 01:27:16.600
depends how you hold that question when

01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:18.480
you say that do you feel yourself

01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:22.239
wanting to hold on to it no and it's not

01:27:22.239 --> 01:27:26.000
even like an existing in a

01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:28.679
particular no it doesn't come with

01:27:28.679 --> 01:27:30.920
Nostalgia and it's more like I couldn't

01:27:30.920 --> 01:27:33.320
be the person I am today without having

01:27:33.320 --> 01:27:36.800
been that person but I'm not that person

01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:40.920
today no way I can't even get into the

01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:43.760
mindset it's

01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:47.440
gone um

01:27:47.960 --> 01:27:51.920
so a chicken cannot be an apex predator

01:27:51.920 --> 01:27:54.840
like its ancestors it's gone but a

01:27:54.840 --> 01:27:56.520
chicken wouldn't be here today without

01:27:56.520 --> 01:27:57.600
the

01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:01.000
dinosaurs it's something like that it's

01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:05.080
continuity and profound

01:28:10.280 --> 01:28:13.400
discontinuity and in some cases like all

01:28:13.400 --> 01:28:14.960
these stories I just told you could

01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:17.679
trace somehow the chicken to the

01:28:17.679 --> 01:28:20.320
dinosaur but you could never trace the

01:28:20.320 --> 01:28:23.040
first the the the

01:28:23.040 --> 01:28:25.920
the the subsequent amoeba to the first

01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:28.239
amoeba you can't find it it's gone the

01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:30.320
record is gone it's not there it's only

01:28:30.320 --> 01:28:33.719
by inference it's

01:28:33.719 --> 01:28:37.840
gone many of the most significant

01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:41.560
changes in the art in our human history

01:28:41.560 --> 01:28:43.440
you can't find them because they're

01:28:43.440 --> 01:28:45.400
Woman's Work and there's no

01:28:45.400 --> 01:28:47.760
archaeological record it's gone you

01:28:47.760 --> 01:28:51.760
can't find it it's gone lost forever not

01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:52.880
in

01:28:52.880 --> 01:28:56.560
memory but it's not it's not I mean it

01:28:56.560 --> 01:28:58.239
can't it's not in our memory you can't

01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:01.320
retrieve it in memory but it's not lost

01:29:01.320 --> 01:29:04.159
it's that kind of

01:29:08.320 --> 01:29:12.679
thing so that's part of

01:29:12.719 --> 01:29:14.600
individuation

01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:17.960
and truly you wouldn't be a new human if

01:29:17.960 --> 01:29:21.000
you had this stickiness with the with

01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:24.560
the past if you if it was just a

01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:27.080
revolution against the past or a

01:29:27.080 --> 01:29:30.000
rejection of the past it would still be

01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:32.639
overdetermined by the past so something

01:29:32.639 --> 01:29:35.119
like that is what we're what we're

01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:38.040
playing around with in this this module

01:29:38.040 --> 01:29:40.719
so thank you for being

01:29:40.719 --> 01:29:43.560
here love the conversation and have a

01:29:43.560 --> 01:29:45.960
good evening or day some of you just

01:29:45.960 --> 01:29:50.360
starting your days and I'll see you

01:29:50.360 --> 01:29:53.360
soon



## Cohort 5

00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:10.120
so here we are in the num

00:00:10.120 --> 00:00:12.679
multimate a word that happens to start

00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:15.080
with a

00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.039
P num

00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:25.679
multimate um session of our journey this

00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:31.320
year and um we are talking about

00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:34.440
individuation and the new

00:00:34.440 --> 00:00:39.559
human um and we will end our journey on

00:00:39.559 --> 00:00:42.399
this coming Thursday at 6 and we could

00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.840
make it a little party if you would

00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:51.160
like um yeah but for today we still have

00:00:51.160 --> 00:00:56.039
some material to go over believe it or

00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.559
not it's like that phase in college

00:00:58.559 --> 00:01:00.559
where you're writing for your your

00:01:00.559 --> 00:01:02.640
thesis but you still go to class and

00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.119
you're still learning things and it's

00:01:04.119 --> 00:01:05.400
like very

00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:09.200
frustrating but um yeah hence I'm just

00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.759
gonna throw this up because I realized

00:01:11.759 --> 00:01:15.680
after last week that I always used to do

00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:17.880
it as part of the as part of the

00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:20.720
individuation module and I didn't do it

00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:24.079
and um so I just want to add this piece

00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:28.600
of content um here and um we can talk

00:01:28.600 --> 00:01:30.240
about about it for little little while

00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:31.759
and then we can talk about anything

00:01:31.759 --> 00:01:34.759
after that okay so it's kind of a dingle

00:01:34.759 --> 00:01:36.439
be it should have come

00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:40.320
earlier um but I didn't want to miss it

00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:43.000
so one of the things about individuation

00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.719
first of all it's a horrible word um

00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.079
because I don't know why he called it

00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:51.439
individuation because it doesn't mean

00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.560
becoming isolated or

00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.079
individual and and if you read anything

00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:00.880
about it in either in young or um um

00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:03.280
secondary sources it means becoming

00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:08.080
whole integrating all the parts right so

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.599
um and you feel like

00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:15.519
one Galt with with everything that is um

00:02:15.519 --> 00:02:18.120
so yeah what would word would you use

00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.599
for that oh individuation you know it's

00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.319
the stupidest word so well funny it

00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.040
means literally

00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:29.920
undivided yes but but individuation

00:02:29.920 --> 00:02:31.599
something you know what I mean it's just

00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:34.800
an unfortunate word because um be

00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.720
because it doesn't it doesn't flow

00:02:37.720 --> 00:02:40.640
semantically out of our mouths that way

00:02:40.640 --> 00:02:45.360
so it means undivided means wholeness um

00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.159
but it also means uh um maybe

00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.280
paradoxically yeah you're undivided but

00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.800
the way your undivided wholeness is is

00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:57.760
different than anyone else's undivided

00:02:57.760 --> 00:03:01.159
wholeness so it doesn't mean a you know

00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.440
you just dissolve into the sea you

00:03:03.440 --> 00:03:05.920
actually realize that you're you you're

00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:07.959
an unique expression of the undivided

00:03:07.959 --> 00:03:11.840
wholeness so um that's another aspect of

00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:16.799
this but so all of this sounds very well

00:03:16.799 --> 00:03:20.040
in theory but what's really hard about

00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:23.120
theory is we think we understand it and

00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.720
we don't um see the opportunities for

00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:29.439
practicing that comes up in our everyday

00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:31.040
life

00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:34.680
and so individual becoming whole means

00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.000
not

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.640
experiencing life in parts right in

00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:45.040
these categories that we have um and um

00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:48.080
one way to think about that is to think

00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.760
of the difference between the us when we

00:03:50.760 --> 00:03:54.120
did that origin of the US and the all of

00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.480
us versus the we so the all of us is

00:03:57.480 --> 00:03:59.959
mostly Us Versus Them the US is is a

00:03:59.959 --> 00:04:02.239
categorical thing right so

00:04:02.239 --> 00:04:07.959
us Americans us women us um at the

00:04:07.959 --> 00:04:10.879
pop-up School versus everyone else us at

00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:14.200
you know second tier whatever um but

00:04:14.200 --> 00:04:17.759
also us oppressed people and us poor

00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:20.400
people and us you know victimized people

00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:23.199
it's still a split they're all they're

00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:28.639
all splits and so the idea here and the

00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.840
opportunity is to first come to terms

00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:34.800
with the fact that these are

00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.400
psychological distortions like they're

00:04:37.400 --> 00:04:39.919
they're the way we frame things they're

00:04:39.919 --> 00:04:44.280
just they're they seem so real um but

00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:48.600
they're constructed by certain certain

00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:52.960
biases um so one of the ways we look at

00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:56.919
the problem with splits is if you have a

00:04:56.919 --> 00:05:00.400
category like if you have the category

00:05:00.400 --> 00:05:03.880
male versus

00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:08.680
female depending upon what you're trying

00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:11.680
to prove it's a typology so categories

00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:14.520
these these splits are are so male and

00:05:14.520 --> 00:05:16.520
female it was a big deal for young

00:05:16.520 --> 00:05:17.720
because he's like one of the hardest

00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.039
things to integrate is anima and animus

00:05:20.039 --> 00:05:24.240
which means th this this split and what

00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.039
we tend to do with

00:05:26.039 --> 00:05:29.919
typologies is we if I'm trying to

00:05:29.919 --> 00:05:33.199
Advocate as a female and I'm saying in

00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.120
contrast to the male I'll put male

00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.840
characteristics only the the negative

00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:41.160
characteristics of male I I'll use to

00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.520
describe what male is and then only the

00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:47.120
positive characteristics of female I use

00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.360
I will use to describe the the feminine

00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.120
and if you stop doing that you realize

00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:54.919
that both masculine and feminine

00:05:54.919 --> 00:05:57.319
dissolve into something that looks very

00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.319
similar right so

00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.560
um so one of the things about not having

00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.880
splits is not interpreting or judging or

00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:12.240
analyzing the world based on

00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.240
categories now the funny thing about

00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.560
categories is they've become very

00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:22.240
interesting in modern world so let's I'm

00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.199
just going to put this up on the

00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.440
screen um so this is something you can

00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:30.199
practice like uh not chopping up the

00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.319
world so this is the site this is what

00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.720
happens uh let me get rid of these right

00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:41.280
now minimize this

00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:48.639
one so what we do is um we positive and

00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:50.599
negatively veilance

00:06:50.599 --> 00:06:53.440
experience um we have to do this when

00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:59.160
we're young um um we we want to remember

00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.639
that the the stove is hot and bad you

00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.039
know it's a bad experience and this ice

00:07:04.039 --> 00:07:06.400
cream tasted good and that's a good

00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:10.160
experience um but then as we get um a

00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:14.319
little older we start um categorizing we

00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.560
simulate these experiences according to

00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.319
categories so we put these

00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.639
these we put everything into

00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:28.280
niches and we start then to live through

00:07:28.280 --> 00:07:31.800
the simulated EXP experience which then

00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.000
reinforces the positive or negative

00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.160
veence we have when we have an

00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:38.080
experience with that category which then

00:07:38.080 --> 00:07:40.039
goes back into simulated experience on

00:07:40.039 --> 00:07:43.160
and on and on and on and on and we know

00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:47.800
from when we did the memory um

00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:49.840
module we don't we're not really

00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:51.759
remembering correctly what our

00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:55.199
experience was we're remembering the

00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.000
experience that has a strong positive or

00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.879
negative veilance and negative veence

00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.840
experiences are are um tend to make

00:08:04.840 --> 00:08:07.120
stronger connections stronger

00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.720
simulations and experience because it's

00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:13.680
evolutionarily adaptive right so once

00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:15.759
you really understand how much you're

00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:17.960
doing this all the time and then making

00:08:17.960 --> 00:08:20.879
these categories you realize I can put a

00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.280
hard barrier here this is this is what

00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:27.639
the the process of splitting is so you

00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.280
can think of gazin and is Israelis right

00:08:30.280 --> 00:08:32.279
it just goes around and around and

00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.000
around and around and the problem with

00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.800
because there are they are categories in

00:08:37.800 --> 00:08:41.760
typologies um you can find things in the

00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:45.440
world that seem to verify

00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.880
them and this is something we want to

00:08:49.880 --> 00:08:51.920
stop

00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:55.279
doing now the interesting things about

00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:59.720
splits in the modern world is

00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:01.000
and you could do this this is an

00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.200
exercise you can do at home is you can

00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:08.040
put a word in uh yeah Charlie you have a

00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:11.640
question first I do that wasn't that

00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:14.839
wasn't clear to me how the line in the

00:09:14.839 --> 00:09:18.160
middle of this diagram creates a split

00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:19.839
right between you're saying the

00:09:19.839 --> 00:09:23.000
simulated experience on one side and the

00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.200
the real experience that we're assigning

00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.760
veilance to on the other no no what

00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:32.640
happened is so I have I'm G to just I'm

00:09:32.640 --> 00:09:36.360
going to use a very uh non-loaded

00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.360
example because if I use a loaded

00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.440
example you won't get it okay a dog I

00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.480
get scared by a dog when I'm little I

00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.160
don't really understand it that's a

00:09:45.160 --> 00:09:47.480
negative experience I put it in a

00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.959
category dogs are bad then I just spend

00:09:50.959 --> 00:09:53.360
all my time I see a dog I start

00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.959
simulating that that dog is bad I don't

00:09:55.959 --> 00:09:58.040
have any evidence for it that dog is

00:09:58.040 --> 00:10:00.440
just a category that dog never did

00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.720
anything for me but because the category

00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:06.120
lives in my simulation I will experience

00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:09.640
I I I I I see bad dog and then it'll do

00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:12.200
something maybe for most people it's

00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:14.959
funny for me it's like that was bad so

00:10:14.959 --> 00:10:17.720
then it makes a negative veilance again

00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:19.519
and then it goes around and around and

00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.959
around and around and so so the split is

00:10:23.959 --> 00:10:27.360
you know uh humans good let's say dogs

00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.720
bad or whatever you know I'm making a

00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:31.920
funny I'm making

00:10:31.920 --> 00:10:37.279
a a sample um thing that so it's not so

00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:43.240
so U badly loaded um so so so basically

00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:45.880
it just it just it's not the boundary

00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:47.560
between the veilance and the simulate

00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:49.000
experience but it starts creating a

00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:52.560
boundary so every so all dogs are

00:10:52.560 --> 00:10:55.200
bad and every real

00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.399
experience actually

00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.279
then then is inter interpreted by the

00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:02.600
Badness and around and around it goes so

00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:05.600
it creates these splits maybe I when I

00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.760
grew up I had a cat cat and cats are

00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:11.440
good dogs are bad so now I have a split

00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:17.240
okay um so um this is this

00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.720
is so the it's a the way you looked at

00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.519
it's a bad drawing but it put some

00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.120
things on one side of on the good side

00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.440
and some things on the bad side so it's

00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:29.600
a reverse

00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:33.240
to Polar polarizing or the binary then

00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.519
right or yes it's how why how we end up

00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:40.000
living in a split reality all the time I

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.680
mean um so let me let me go to the next

00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:47.160
slide and you'll see what I mean so if I

00:11:47.160 --> 00:11:50.279
think of here's types of existence and I

00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.519
have a positive veence or A negative

00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.959
veence if I put

00:11:54.959 --> 00:11:58.120
here now the important thing is they're

00:11:58.120 --> 00:11:59.560
both wrong

00:11:59.560 --> 00:12:03.920
okay so if I put here black

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:06.560
people and I'm a postmodern I'm like oh

00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:08.519
you know blah blah blah blah I really

00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:10.519
feel sympathy for them blah blah blah

00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:12.880
blah they go in my whoops I they go in

00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:16.639
my positive category

00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.680
right what if I put rich white men what

00:12:20.680 --> 00:12:23.360
you GNA put on the right slide you have

00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.000
the first slide

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.900
here okay hold on

00:12:28.900 --> 00:12:31.560
[Music]

00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:35.279
can you see oh all right

00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.440
sorry it didn't work the way I thought

00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.040
it would okay thank you okay so here's

00:12:40.040 --> 00:12:42.680
the splits I have these categories of

00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:46.120
existence let's say I put black

00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.000
people all right so I'm GNA put them oh

00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.839
you know I like black people it's too

00:12:50.839 --> 00:12:53.040
bad that they're you know I want to work

00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:54.720
for them black lives matter I'm going to

00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.519
put them in a positive category I feel

00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.000
like I want to n nurture positivity

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.480
toward them I'm nurturing positivity and

00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:05.320
then what what if I put rich white men

00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.480
what happens in your body you you can

00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.160
feel it it's going to go over here for

00:13:09.160 --> 00:13:11.800
most people but if you go to a

00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:14.279
Libertarian party and say Rich whitean

00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.680
Elon Musk oh that's a good

00:13:16.680 --> 00:13:19.600
thing the whole world is doing this it

00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.639
it it discharges in your

00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.360
body and you want to you don't want to

00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:28.920
be on one side of the I mean it's not

00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:32.079
good to be like oh black people or oh

00:13:32.079 --> 00:13:34.199
the Israelis you know we need to help

00:13:34.199 --> 00:13:36.040
the Israelis but because there's people

00:13:36.040 --> 00:13:38.760
oh we need to help the gos the the split

00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:42.399
itself is the problem you're split men

00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.800
women men and women oh women put men in

00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:47.240
the negative and then put women you know

00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:54.040
the whole thing is is is destroying the

00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.279
world so as good Progressive we're happy

00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:03.800
that we can put oppressed people in the

00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:07.480
positive but that's not good because

00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.360
then we put rich white men in the

00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:16.959
negative and this is how profound

00:14:16.959 --> 00:14:19.480
individuation is because he's serious

00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:22.079
it's like you you know we have parts of

00:14:22.079 --> 00:14:24.680
selves and we have these managers and

00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:27.959
this and then we we we inject these

00:14:27.959 --> 00:14:30.440
categories ourselves and and the whole

00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:32.680
thing gets so compartmentalized and

00:14:32.680 --> 00:14:37.680
fragmented so this is um this

00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:44.040
is how we um um begin this is how most

00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:47.720
people live their lives and this is the

00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:48.880
kind of

00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:50.399
practical

00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:57.040
challenge that is um is described by the

00:14:57.040 --> 00:14:59.639
process of individuation they're the you

00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.920
know it's it's um I can't see anybody

00:15:02.920 --> 00:15:05.880
now this whole screen thing is going

00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:08.639
crazy it's like you all shut off okay

00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.920
there you're back it was weird it was

00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:14.800
like you all shut off your videos so so

00:15:14.800 --> 00:15:17.040
um one one of the things to practice

00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:20.360
it's extremely challenging is to catch

00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.120
yourself when you're analyzing or

00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.040
interpreting or judging or valuing based

00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:30.000
upon categories that are t typology IES

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.959
um that have a negative and positive

00:15:31.959 --> 00:15:34.279
veilance you know one typology has a

00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:36.360
positive veence and one typology has a

00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.839
negative veence and they're hard to spot

00:15:38.839 --> 00:15:41.920
because when you are are I'm I'm being

00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:44.399
stereotypical so it's it's obvious so

00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.600
when you're encouraged because you've

00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.519
grown to understand the oppression like

00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:52.839
systemic

00:15:52.839 --> 00:15:56.079
racism that's a good thing but if you if

00:15:56.079 --> 00:15:59.199
you're noticing that all it is is is

00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.199
it's still a split because you switched

00:16:01.199 --> 00:16:04.639
to categories it's really not any

00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.399
progress it's just you switched camps

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.160
right so individuation is very difficult

00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:14.600
in this in this way now that doesn't

00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.959
mean that there aren't differences right

00:16:16.959 --> 00:16:18.639
there are differences between men and

00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.120
women it's the positive and negatively

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.920
veening the

00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:25.279
characteristics across this

00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.000
typology um that that creates creates

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.680
the split

00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:33.319
and um so what do you do what you do is

00:16:33.319 --> 00:16:36.279
you go to the next larger category men

00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.000
and women are

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.319
humans men when they act a certain way

00:16:42.319 --> 00:16:44.680
and women when they act a certain way

00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:46.240
that looks like opposites they're

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.880
actually both at the same stage of

00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:51.399
psychological

00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.920
development which looks like opposites

00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:57.240
but they're just both grappling with

00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:59.240
being diluted they they're just diluted

00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.079
in different ways so it makes no sense

00:17:02.079 --> 00:17:04.000
for one to say you're diluted and the

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.600
other one to say you're diluted it you

00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:09.199
need someone who can say this is a

00:17:09.199 --> 00:17:11.199
you're both deluded you know you're

00:17:11.199 --> 00:17:13.439
you're both there's a delusion there's a

00:17:13.439 --> 00:17:15.760
split happening it's just different

00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:18.799
versions of the same

00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.160
split it's just different versions of

00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.039
the same

00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.079
split so we want to be really

00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.120
careful that we

00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:33.760
try to um distance ourselves from these

00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:36.440
kinds of thoughts do come up but we try

00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.120
to distance ourselves from

00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:43.440
them and and you know it's late in the

00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:46.120
game we live in a society with we talk

00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:48.640
like that all the time but it's whether

00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.280
you can distance yourself from them as

00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:54.480
meaning making

00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.919
tools the man who walks into the office

00:17:59.919 --> 00:18:03.240
ambitious as a

00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.240
sociopathic power grabbing is at

00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.600
the same level of Consciousness as the

00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:12.000
woman who walks into the office and

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.360
seductively uses subtle sexual cues to

00:18:16.360 --> 00:18:17.360
gain

00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:20.440
power it's the same and then you get

00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:25.480
more and more subtle and um so so and

00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:28.440
and they they they compose a DI they

00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:32.120
compose a a whole those two things

00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:37.240
compose a whole and the idea is to try

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.840
to um to to see them as a whole

00:18:40.840 --> 00:18:42.640
structure and and the and the perfect

00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.480
example of this is Martin Luther King he

00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.320
did not say that black people should be

00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:51.120
recompensated he said that the founding

00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:53.840
fathers wrote a check all men are

00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:58.039
created equal and all men it's up to all

00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.039
white and black people to really come to

00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.400
that level of

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.480
Consciousness um so so this is very

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.640
important in our world today and we

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.919
talked about it a little last time about

00:19:10.919 --> 00:19:17.400
about um how um how uh social justice is

00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.159
just in many cases just trying to Flip

00:19:20.159 --> 00:19:22.679
Flip this situation rather

00:19:22.679 --> 00:19:26.400
than Elevate across the

00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.640
typology um and and um you know I was

00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:32.960
thinking about like for

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.320
example those of you who've met Sandy

00:19:35.320 --> 00:19:38.080
you know he can he certainly can be

00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:41.760
typed as a somewhat right-wing or maybe

00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:45.200
very right-wing um you know Italian

00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.520
Guido male quick to anger whatever blah

00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:50.520
blah blah but then you go in and he's

00:19:50.520 --> 00:19:52.000
playing with his kitten and he's like

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.679
much more matronly or motherly than I am

00:19:54.679 --> 00:19:56.720
and it just depends whichever one

00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.039
triggers you you're G to typ cast cast

00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.000
you know typ cast him as and raay

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.760
laughing because if you actually know

00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:07.799
Sandy it's pretty clear that he's not

00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.640
you know he's not that but

00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:16.159
um it's the ability to understand that

00:20:16.159 --> 00:20:18.919
the every individual comes from

00:20:18.919 --> 00:20:24.520
wholeness and um try to see that and

00:20:24.520 --> 00:20:26.200
then the last thing I have to say about

00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:27.720
this and I'm just kind of going through

00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:29.120
what I used

00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:33.200
to add to this module is at some point

00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.720
then we move from the split which is the

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.320
definition of a typology one's an us and

00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:42.960
one's of them so you only understand the

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.120
situation based upon a dualistic

00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:51.440
typology versus this feeling of the the

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:55.200
we which is the sum total of The Human

00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.640
Condition and it's the ability to say

00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.080
we are destroying the planet and it

00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:06.039
means we it means we the people I'm a

00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.840
person you're a person we are destroying

00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:11.080
the

00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.760
planet we are creating great works of

00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:19.279
art it's the ability to meld yourself

00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.279
with the sun you can't you

00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.039
can't enact the sum total of H Human

00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.440
Condition but you can somehow really

00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.600
identify with it because it because of

00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:38.600
the whole that it is we are doing this

00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:42.279
we have these gifts we have these

00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.279
challenges we have this history and this

00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.960
becomes extremely

00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.080
compassionate you look at it you you're

00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:56.159
not separate anymore we are like this we

00:21:56.159 --> 00:21:58.080
are neuroatypical

00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:02.520
we have a lot of autism

00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:05.200
we

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.559
are very confused we are headed for

00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.320
trouble we have done you know what I'm

00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:13.480
saying and it's this ability for that we

00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:14.840
to

00:22:14.840 --> 00:22:17.840
really

00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.840
seamlessly you really feel that that we

00:22:24.840 --> 00:22:29.000
means you among all the others

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.919
um in some mysterious fashion it's all a

00:22:32.919 --> 00:22:36.720
connected agent and then you can say we

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.720
and you could mean all of life you could

00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.360
say we and you could mean you know you

00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:44.400
could you could keep saying that but the

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.960
difficult one for us is to say we I mean

00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:50.480
all of the all all human condition

00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:51.559
without a

00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.279
split they are destroying the planet I'm

00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:57.760
trying to save it no we are doing a lots

00:22:57.760 --> 00:22:59.720
of of things on this

00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.760
planet um and lots could be

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:08.120
better so that's the kind of experience

00:23:08.120 --> 00:23:13.000
of becoming more and more whole yeah Rew

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.679
our subjectivity just be careful though

00:23:15.679 --> 00:23:18.640
we like the this group and me I like the

00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.320
term re wild but sometimes that means

00:23:21.320 --> 00:23:23.640
like skipping over

00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:26.240
people just like the people skip over

00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.520
nature we want to just like become like

00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:32.720
nature and the people are

00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.039
them right so for us to say we and

00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:39.000
include humans can be harder than just

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.279
as hard as for them the big gap that

00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:44.279
rich Blundell and I talk about for them

00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.600
to include n nature so individuation is

00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:50.760
the int psychic uh process intra meaning

00:23:50.760 --> 00:23:55.279
Collective and uh yeah

00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.400
so that's the piece that kind of yeah

00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:01.760
it's it's it's I like to say that let's

00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:04.520
re Wild versus

00:24:04.520 --> 00:24:07.720
like what what are we doing like what

00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:08.919
are we

00:24:08.919 --> 00:24:11.640
doing

00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:14.080
uh

00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:19.200
um well it just it could be a split um a

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:21.360
split doesn't doesn't

00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:25.000
mean you have to it you can have the use

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.880
the word we and mean mean a certain

00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.960
scale like we we are on this call

00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:36.120
together that's not a split versus we're

00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:38.520
the only ones who care to be enough to

00:24:38.520 --> 00:24:41.559
be on this call that's a split okay

00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:44.000
because it's and it's just

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.320
implying that there's a boundary and

00:24:47.320 --> 00:24:49.440
there's something wrong on the other

00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.320
side um but yes we you know in this

00:24:53.320 --> 00:24:57.159
course in this school in my passion is

00:24:57.159 --> 00:24:59.520
to have the

00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:04.880
we include humanity and nature but and

00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.120
maybe someone could also speak to this

00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:09.159
in their experience

00:25:09.159 --> 00:25:12.039
but there's a there's a tendency for

00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:16.120
people who are who advocate for nature

00:25:16.120 --> 00:25:19.080
to have to say we we want to be wild we

00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:21.600
want to be more like nature not like

00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:22.640
those

00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.039
humans it's the opposite of what they're

00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.360
doing right so so

00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:31.080
so you want to make sure that when you

00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:34.159
include we and the humans and then the

00:25:34.159 --> 00:25:37.840
animals you're actually also in a loving

00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:40.240
beautiful way that you like to say we

00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.799
all of us life you're saying about we

00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.720
all of us humans like that's a harder

00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.360
nut for people like us to accept for

00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:52.360
some other people it's the other way

00:25:52.360 --> 00:25:57.399
around but this is a point I just wanted

00:25:57.399 --> 00:26:00.440
to make sure I made before the end of

00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:01.919
the course and I didn't want to make it

00:26:01.919 --> 00:26:03.919
on the last day because I wanted to

00:26:03.919 --> 00:26:07.000
party on the last

00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.360
day um I have something to say

00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:17.120
bunny it seems to me there's a there's

00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:23.559
a a Lynch pin or what I call a trim

00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:26.960
tab that move to the next higher

00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.960
category if you notice you're in a

00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.720
category is

00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:39.320
generosity simply being

00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:44.720
generous yeah in generous in your

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.320
assessment but the only way to get

00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:49.120
Beyond it is exactly what you say you

00:26:49.120 --> 00:26:51.919
got to crawl over that split and be

00:26:51.919 --> 00:26:55.120
generous because it'll feel even even

00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:57.799
just neutral Behavior will feel like

00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:00.399
you're really being generous because

00:27:00.399 --> 00:27:02.240
you're you're you know what I'm saying

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.760
so like if you if you let someone act

00:27:05.760 --> 00:27:08.600
out and you're just neutral you might

00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:10.760
feel like wow I was really generous to

00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:12.960
them I let them talk for two minutes and

00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:14.960
get their out because yeah so

00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.440
that's that's a good

00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.240
biomarker Good Samaritan it's Good

00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.320
Samaritan yes exactly it's acting

00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:28.000
on right in this case the split gives

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.760
you an

00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:32.760
opportunity it's it's a good marker or

00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:35.120
sign that you have an opportunity to be

00:27:35.120 --> 00:27:41.200
generous yes well you know I have this

00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.120
impulse um I like to stay in the year

00:27:44.120 --> 00:27:46.279
we're in but I also like to go to the

00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:48.799
year we're going to what did the song

00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.919
say it's coming on I'm what is it I'm a

00:27:51.919 --> 00:27:54.799
mess but it won't last long because the

00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:58.960
future is coming on my question is I

00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:03.279
think my bottom line question

00:28:06.919 --> 00:28:09.440
is will

00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:11.960
generosity

00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:16.240
Blossom when we enter into that

00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.559
fourth

00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.799
stream affect stream that you are

00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.279
calling

00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.120
intimacy and I don't know what you mean

00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:28.840
by intimacy

00:28:28.840 --> 00:28:31.159
the only note I took was

00:28:31.159 --> 00:28:34.480
lust and

00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:37.440
ingression

00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.720
yes those

00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.440
words um there's no perfectly

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.640
individuated person but you we could

00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:47.279
describe it's in the chat we could

00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.039
describe an idealized one right an

00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.720
idealized one

00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.399
um that's a good question

00:28:56.399 --> 00:28:59.039
um

00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.720
I just mean uh it seems like you keep

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.279
going if we keep going up and we're

00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.600
neutral neutral neutral and unbiased uh

00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:10.480
uh how far can we go I mean you see what

00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.000
I'm saying I mean I understand what

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.279
you're saying but I'm not uh I'm

00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.740
wondering uh what our ideals

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.799
[Music]

00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:26.200
are yes so are there any unbiased ideals

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:27.919
this is a very inter interesting

00:29:27.919 --> 00:29:29.760
question like can you have an

00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:34.640
aspirational ideal that doesn't bias

00:29:36.600 --> 00:29:38.960
something that seems like a question for

00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.080
next

00:29:41.080 --> 00:29:45.279
year okay got it I get no no it's an

00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.519
interesting question that's really

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.720
what's behind your question like like um

00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.320
um yeah it's a it's actually a question

00:29:54.320 --> 00:29:57.399
now that is is is really captured my

00:29:57.399 --> 00:29:58.960
imagination I don't have any answer for

00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:06.120
it um but I I I would say that um at it

00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:09.080
it it it boils down to the question is

00:30:09.080 --> 00:30:12.720
there good and evil right because if

00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:14.760
fundamentally you think there's good and

00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:18.840
evil then you have a split at the at the

00:30:18.840 --> 00:30:21.440
at the core of everything that's also a

00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:24.679
type typology and then then you get

00:30:24.679 --> 00:30:28.159
into is everything Rel I mean this is a

00:30:28.159 --> 00:30:32.720
problem with all these metaphysics uh um

00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.399
does the individuated I'll answer adri

00:30:35.399 --> 00:30:38.840
she's always asking me these kind of

00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:45.399
questions um so um I would so so an

00:30:45.399 --> 00:30:49.120
integral um parament as Ken Wilbur's

00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:50.679
integral there's a lot of people playing

00:30:50.679 --> 00:30:52.240
around with this

00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.080
stuff his earlier writings when he

00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:57.880
talked about the Centaur the Centaur

00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.840
stage and what do he call it uh did he

00:31:00.840 --> 00:31:03.919
call it Centaur he called it Centaur and

00:31:03.919 --> 00:31:07.159
some something else that's closer to

00:31:07.159 --> 00:31:09.600
that's the closest he got to Young's

00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:11.039
concept of

00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.559
individuation it was much you more

00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.039
animus and anima you know the animal and

00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:19.120
the human and the anima and the Animus

00:31:19.120 --> 00:31:21.279
um but then when he came out with the

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.639
full-blown aqual he has typologies all

00:31:23.639 --> 00:31:26.559
over the place in fact aqual is all

00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:31.360
quadrant all levels types and

00:31:31.360 --> 00:31:35.760
streams so he he kind of allowed a lot

00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:40.000
and then so you get people like um um be

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.720
a Sharma working with polarities and po

00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:44.519
polarity managements people saying that

00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:47.240
polarities are ontologically real and

00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:50.960
then you have people like um uh this is

00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.679
Zen guy who does polarities and stuff

00:31:53.679 --> 00:31:55.720
and it it became very interesting to

00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.159
work with typologies and arities in the

00:31:58.159 --> 00:32:00.600
integral and this would not be in the

00:32:00.600 --> 00:32:03.360
spirit of J's

00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:07.480
individuation um so but you know at

00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.600
certain stages um yeah

00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:15.760
so they really their taxonomy really uh

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:19.639
worked with a lot of polarities and

00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.080
typologies Matt how do you how do you

00:32:29.080 --> 00:32:33.720
see like the issue of like suppression

00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.960
or suppressing coming in because I feel

00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.600
like I can see how when I come across

00:32:39.600 --> 00:32:41.159
these polarities like I can definitely

00:32:41.159 --> 00:32:43.399
not they're pretty obvious to me what

00:32:43.399 --> 00:32:46.760
ones I have you mean splits or po yeah

00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:48.120
splits

00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:51.679
splits and I notice you know the

00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:54.919
frustration or the easiness with either

00:32:54.919 --> 00:32:56.039
one come

00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:59.039
up

00:32:59.080 --> 00:33:01.440
I guess I'm still wondering how you

00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:03.799
actually transcend that because I could

00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:05.880
see how one part might

00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.760
be a trap of that would be just to like

00:33:08.760 --> 00:33:11.240
suppress it where you still feel that

00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:14.360
way but you got this idea of like oh no

00:33:14.360 --> 00:33:16.279
I I need to transcend it so I'm just

00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.120
going to you know ignore it or whatever

00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:21.760
but it's still there um is it literally

00:33:21.760 --> 00:33:24.519
just being aware of it more and more or

00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.279
yeah so that's a good point and David

00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.600
answer was perfect but at first when

00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:31.240
you're working with this you realize

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:33.279
your mind is doing it you got the

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.880
category but you can be honest I just

00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.279
don't feel at ease with the with that

00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.440
category of person and I feel at ease

00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:44.600
with this C my body is just not there so

00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:46.559
this is where you have to use your

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.799
intellect to

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:52.519
go further challenge your body you know

00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.080
you C so I once I think I told that

00:33:55.080 --> 00:33:57.919
story about um you know I'd worked in

00:33:57.919 --> 00:34:00.840
New York City and had all kinds of like

00:34:00.840 --> 00:34:03.960
friends and the the vibe of the city and

00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.360
then I was spent all my time in New York

00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:08.480
in northwest Connecticut I got older and

00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.040
then one day I traveled to the city I

00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:13.560
was traveling to Washington DC and I got

00:34:13.560 --> 00:34:16.919
into a train station late at night and

00:34:16.919 --> 00:34:19.839
these young black guy kids that came

00:34:19.839 --> 00:34:21.520
walking in and they were with

00:34:21.520 --> 00:34:26.320
each other and I I had no I couldn't my

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:28.839
body could register whether it was funny

00:34:28.839 --> 00:34:31.480
whether I was in danger my Threat Level

00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.320
was like weird um there was no cops

00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.359
around or anything so I looked at I

00:34:36.359 --> 00:34:39.200
watched a a young woman with a baby in a

00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:40.919
stroller and she was a person of color

00:34:40.919 --> 00:34:42.639
and she was letting her baby like play

00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.280
on the floor and um so I kind of used

00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:51.599
her body to um so but I didn't have like

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.599
a negative because she was a young

00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.639
person of color I don't know what you

00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:57.440
know

00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:59.280
she was mixed race

00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.880
probably um but I had to acknowledge

00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.040
that like this was so foreign to me and

00:35:04.040 --> 00:35:06.119
I could remember when I wasn't like that

00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.400
you know so so it is it can be a funny

00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:12.760
combination you know like like um and

00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:14.720
and for things that don't matter you can

00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:18.760
grow up and be a mature per person and

00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:20.640
always be afraid of dogs and you can

00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:22.359
know I'm afraid of dogs because this

00:35:22.359 --> 00:35:23.839
thing happened when I say Kayla I'm

00:35:23.839 --> 00:35:26.119
always afraid of dogs and then you say

00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:27.800
they know I'm AF afraid that's why they

00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.320
pick on me you know so so it's a both

00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:34.119
ends you know you can't you can't you

00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.119
you want to try to do the best you can

00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.359
um um but you're right there's there's

00:35:39.359 --> 00:35:44.880
off often a lag um between and and and

00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:48.280
um and

00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.680
yeah social media doesn't help because

00:35:54.680 --> 00:35:57.160
what happens on social media is if

00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:59.280
you're leaning slightly to this split

00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.079
the algorithm will give you give you

00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:02.400
more and more and more and more more and

00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.520
more more of that and you and it pushes

00:36:04.520 --> 00:36:07.160
you it gives you confirmation of

00:36:07.160 --> 00:36:09.119
something that could have started off

00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.200
quite quite um small and you're still

00:36:14.200 --> 00:36:16.440
suspicious of it and social media has

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.640
made it much much much

00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:21.640
worse

00:36:23.359 --> 00:36:26.359
um and of course not only because of the

00:36:26.359 --> 00:36:28.880
algorithm ithms but the fake news and

00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.920
you see videos and they seem so real and

00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.040
it it's like velcro that little split

00:36:34.040 --> 00:36:35.880
you have it just attaches it to it and

00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:36.680
then you

00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:38.720
wna that was the first thing I thought

00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:41.560
of when you actually did little

00:36:41.560 --> 00:36:44.319
yeah yeah because it's all simulated on

00:36:44.319 --> 00:36:45.440
social

00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.680
media um it's very it's it's very it's

00:36:48.680 --> 00:36:51.079
highly

00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.160
problematic Bonnie can you you talk a

00:36:57.160 --> 00:37:01.440
little bit about Ingress and

00:37:02.359 --> 00:37:04.800
egress um so I don't think I use the

00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:05.640
word

00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:08.599
egress um it's an interesting question

00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:09.520
so

00:37:09.520 --> 00:37:13.319
ingression just means that whatever you

00:37:13.319 --> 00:37:16.440
interact with

00:37:16.680 --> 00:37:19.720
externally is going to shape your

00:37:19.720 --> 00:37:23.400
subjectivity your internal it ingresses

00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:28.520
in you as subject subjected

00:37:28.520 --> 00:37:34.040
subdiv um so if I'm if I'm

00:37:35.560 --> 00:37:37.560
um

00:37:37.560 --> 00:37:40.119
um and it could be with inanimate

00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:43.440
objects too you know like if if you I

00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:44.839
had some friends come over I have these

00:37:44.839 --> 00:37:46.760
really cool pens and I gave them pens

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.839
for a a gift and I knew the next day I

00:37:49.839 --> 00:37:51.599
go in how y all do and they're like I

00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.680
love these pens and so the gift and the

00:37:54.680 --> 00:37:57.440
pen and the feeling of the pen it lives

00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.240
in them like they don't have to use the

00:37:59.240 --> 00:38:01.920
pen that whole experience is in them

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.079
it's ingressed in them it's in in cless

00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.640
terms it becomes they're internally

00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:10.040
related to it the external relation of

00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:12.200
using the pen and the fact that I gave

00:38:12.200 --> 00:38:16.560
it to them uh um is ingressed into their

00:38:16.560 --> 00:38:17.640
own

00:38:17.640 --> 00:38:20.560
subjectivity sometimes over time you

00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:22.960
forget how it got in there and you think

00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.280
that's me I'm just I was always like

00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.079
that right so um so um it's different

00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.119
than introjection introjection is a

00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:33.800
psychological structure has to go

00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.720
through the mind and and this is just

00:38:37.720 --> 00:38:40.480
like very basic fundamental

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.880
ingression um so

00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.880
um

00:38:48.160 --> 00:38:51.000
um and it's not it's neither one of

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.200
those ingression is neither one of

00:38:54.200 --> 00:38:59.680
those um so why is it important because

00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:02.680
um

00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:06.160
um well that you didn't ask me that so

00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:09.040
maybe I'll just stop there egression I

00:39:09.040 --> 00:39:13.880
guess is the understanding that I'm also

00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.920
egressing into you

00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:21.000
um but I can't feel that I can only feel

00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.119
the one way think so what's interesting

00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:25.960
about that is that's that's the

00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:29.000
definition of intimacy that you're so

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.920
porous with the other that the other it

00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.160
and it's it's a definite like orgasm

00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:35.920
like you don't know whose body is who

00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:37.920
anymore and it's literally ingression

00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.079
there some part of someone's body is in

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.680
yours and some part of someone's body's

00:39:42.680 --> 00:39:45.680
over yours and you're in them it's

00:39:45.680 --> 00:39:50.480
literally the the the metaphysics of

00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.680
lust and intimacy is to this this

00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:58.119
exchange of fluid it also is literally

00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:02.680
trans modification when the L when I eat

00:40:02.680 --> 00:40:06.440
the the the cow the cow literally

00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.079
ingresses into my cells it's literally

00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:14.040
so ingression is all is is a feature of

00:40:14.040 --> 00:40:16.079
reality all the way up and all the way

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.200
down at certain levels gets much more

00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:22.079
concrete at levels of mind it gets more

00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.240
like the

00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:27.000
subjectivity and at levels be um below

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.680
like what we call matter it gets more um

00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.400
um abstract again because that's the

00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:36.599
only way we can understand what what

00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:39.960
electrons feel or whatever this or that

00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:41.280
but if you read have you ever read

00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.680
Christopher

00:40:43.680 --> 00:40:46.800
Alexander so if Christopher Alexander

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.920
struggled with this because he he was

00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:51.839
always working with objects and he could

00:40:51.839 --> 00:40:54.760
say some of them have more life and

00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:57.520
toward the end he if you read his last

00:40:57.520 --> 00:40:59.599
book He's thinking he's gone crazy

00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:01.520
because there's like he's like I'm not

00:41:01.520 --> 00:41:03.720
like religious I've never been religious

00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:06.880
but there's when I look it's called

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.839
perceptual depth if I look closely if I

00:41:09.839 --> 00:41:11.920
share enough time with an object I see

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:15.480
myself in it and actually what he's

00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.440
experiencing is that the object has

00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.359
ingressed there's not really his

00:41:19.359 --> 00:41:21.440
subjectivities in the object that you

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:23.280
can experience it that way but the

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.599
object is ingressed as subjective Contex

00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:28.359
into

00:41:28.359 --> 00:41:30.800
you this we're going to be working a lot

00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.640
with this next year in in um The Once

00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:40.720
and Future god um so so um what we're

00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:45.839
going to say is you know God is 100% I'm

00:41:45.839 --> 00:41:48.040
not GNA say it this way because it's not

00:41:48.040 --> 00:41:49.839
actually accurate but I'm gonna say it

00:41:49.839 --> 00:41:52.440
this way because this is the only way

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.079
it's understandable it's the way I first

00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.680
understood it God is 100% internal

00:41:57.680 --> 00:42:00.079
relations it can't be related to

00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:03.319
anything else again it's like the first

00:42:03.319 --> 00:42:06.400
amoeba then the first amoeba has two

00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.760
babies and and the first amoeba is

00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:11.880
completely

00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:17.319
metabolized by that that creation so you

00:42:17.319 --> 00:42:19.960
can't point to the first

00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:23.640
but it it's it's the two amibas are

00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:25.559
internally related to the first amoeba

00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.760
so didn't it didn't dissolve it's now

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.240
ingressed into the two amibas but now

00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:34.359
the two amibas they're not exactly the

00:42:34.359 --> 00:42:38.040
same because they one's on one looks at

00:42:38.040 --> 00:42:39.760
one that one from this perspective one

00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:41.720
looks what so they can have external

00:42:41.720 --> 00:42:43.880
relations and as they have external

00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:45.880
relations what's unique about them then

00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:48.920
ingresses into each other and this is

00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:51.640
the level of complexity you need to

00:42:51.640 --> 00:42:54.200
create the complex Universe we have

00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:55.960
these these different levels there's

00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.680
actually fourfold topology of internal

00:42:59.680 --> 00:43:03.280
relations so ingression is a big part so

00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.319
what we can think of it is this we're

00:43:06.319 --> 00:43:07.960
born

00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:10.720
everything and and and this notion of

00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:12.880
nothing is diminished okay so when the

00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:14.880
first amoeba has two amibas they don't

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.480
get smaller I mean they're smaller at

00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.559
first but they become whole amibas so

00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.760
it's not like after 10 million years of

00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:26.640
amoeba they're nanosized now so that you

00:43:26.640 --> 00:43:28.760
have to understand that this you have to

00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.119
get rid of the concept of division

00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.200
equals diminution okay

00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:40.280
so we come from God we're internally

00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:43.839
related to God with no

00:43:43.839 --> 00:43:47.359
diminishment but we're also very unique

00:43:47.359 --> 00:43:50.480
and so when I interact with you that

00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.680
kind of God you are comes into me and

00:43:53.680 --> 00:43:55.800
you can imagine the scenario where then

00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.720
every one's just internally related to

00:43:57.720 --> 00:43:59.599
everyone else and there's only internal

00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:02.040
relations and you become God again okay

00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:04.559
that's the once and future

00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.160
God and it's the same thing that Michael

00:44:07.160 --> 00:44:09.559
Lan talks about when two cells open

00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.079
their Gap Junctions it's the same thing

00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:15.119
it's the exact same

00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.480
metaphysics because at first they're

00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:19.640
interacting and they're passing signals

00:44:19.640 --> 00:44:22.119
back and forth so they're externally and

00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:23.640
internally related and then they open

00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:25.240
their G junctures and they're only

00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:27.680
internally related and he says and then

00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:29.119
they don't then they don't have two

00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.480
identities they only have one so this is

00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.800
the metaphysics of a on and future God

00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:39.559
and ingression is very important part of

00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.839
it it's like mind-blowing right but it's

00:44:42.839 --> 00:44:45.680
really it's really you can everyone can

00:44:45.680 --> 00:44:47.040
understand ingression and that it's like

00:44:47.040 --> 00:44:49.680
intimacy it's a definition of intimacy

00:44:49.680 --> 00:44:52.480
um I I tried to explain to Mark GNE that

00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:55.720
that's what int intimacy was uh that it

00:44:55.720 --> 00:45:00.160
was ingression paracity um and then

00:45:00.160 --> 00:45:02.800
there's all kinds of questions like

00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:04.359
actually in my breakout group we were

00:45:04.359 --> 00:45:06.440
talking about this at the daffne thing

00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:09.000
and when Michelangelo sculpts The Rock

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.000
The Rock is ingress you know the whole

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.359
and the question is like what's

00:45:14.359 --> 00:45:18.480
ingressing in the Rock like the there is

00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.079
there has to be the way the metaphysics

00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.000
works there has to be ingression if

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.280
something's in in external relationship

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:27.359
to everything else something else so

00:45:27.359 --> 00:45:29.680
what's happening on the other side well

00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:31.920
the electrons are bouncing off and

00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.480
molecules are breaking bonds and these

00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:37.720
things are changing the internal nature

00:45:37.720 --> 00:45:39.280
of something on the other end of the

00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:41.920
equation it has has to be that so now

00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:45.040
you start to see this amazing thing and

00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.280
then we talked about ingression with

00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:51.400
with Hamas and Israel so like every e

00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:55.079
external action that Israel does on the

00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:57.800
Palestinians ingresses into their

00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.160
subjectivity so they become more and

00:46:00.160 --> 00:46:01.319
more

00:46:01.319 --> 00:46:03.839
distorted even though they're after

00:46:03.839 --> 00:46:06.800
Justice they don't haven't taken into

00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:10.839
account this this sense of

00:46:11.240 --> 00:46:14.119
ingression and so they become more like

00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:15.440
the

00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.920
Palestinians and the Palestinians become

00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:20.160
more radicalized and then they become

00:46:20.160 --> 00:46:22.960
more parias like the Jews

00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:26.480
were and this is why that happened these

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.520
ironies these great ironies of

00:46:34.680 --> 00:46:38.079
History because of

00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:44.359
ingression um Bonnie I was I have a

00:46:44.359 --> 00:46:47.200
question um that I've been sitting with

00:46:47.200 --> 00:46:50.400
and you raised the you used the word

00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:53.640
introjected and Rel and I wondered I've

00:46:53.640 --> 00:46:56.960
been wondering about this

00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.960
something you shared where you said that

00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:01.480
the self is

00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:04.640
injected this is a capital S because

00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:06.240
it's a pure

00:47:06.240 --> 00:47:10.319
abstraction in reality okay okay if I

00:47:10.319 --> 00:47:14.000
said that I slip it's not an injection

00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.119
so an injection and a projection is our

00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:17.160
psychic

00:47:17.160 --> 00:47:19.640
structures right so a pure abstraction

00:47:19.640 --> 00:47:23.480
is not an injection so an injection is I

00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:26.359
project something out yeah

00:47:26.359 --> 00:47:29.920
then it injects into me so and and I

00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:32.400
just used it again to say no ingression

00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:33.720
is not

00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:37.079
injection okay it's very similar like it

00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.720
and it must have something to

00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:44.240
do with it but it's but it's not it um

00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:48.640
yeah it's not okay thank you than yeah

00:47:48.640 --> 00:47:50.520
could could I ask one more clarification

00:47:50.520 --> 00:47:53.599
thing sure well um I have I think I'm

00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.559
assuming something that

00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.839
I hope I'm assuming it correctly and one

00:47:58.839 --> 00:48:03.319
of you one of you um there was a sheer

00:48:03.319 --> 00:48:06.319
on substack it's quite a recent one

00:48:06.319 --> 00:48:09.119
where you said that um I wrote it down

00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.079
it said that love is the impulse to

00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:15.440
allow oneself to be fully metabolized by

00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:16.440
one's

00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:18.760
descendants and there was another piece

00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:20.760
to go on yeah those are excerpts from

00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.559
the book that these notes these things

00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:26.559
that I put out

00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:29.119
yeah from the book you're writing yeah

00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:33.000
yeah yeah yeah very cool very cool um my

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.559
eyes I read that and and then there was

00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.200
another there's another piece as well

00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:40.920
about God um being metabolized by cre

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:43.960
creation but the the use of the word

00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.800
descendants please can I ask for some

00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:50.319
clarification yes I when I first read

00:48:50.319 --> 00:48:53.640
that I was just thinking do this a bit I

00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:56.040
was only thinking of humans and then I

00:48:56.040 --> 00:49:00.559
thought no this descendant is everything

00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.480
really it's not just human so it's

00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:06.799
everything right yes but now we need to

00:49:06.799 --> 00:49:09.559
control terminology all right it's just

00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:11.680
it's just and I think it might have been

00:49:11.680 --> 00:49:14.319
no I wrote it but I didn't excerpt it so

00:49:14.319 --> 00:49:16.400
you have two terms you have the term

00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:19.760
descendant with a d

00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.160
NT yeah and then you have the term

00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:27.040
descendant D NT I had to keep correcting

00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:29.880
it because word correcting it's

00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:32.079
you know everything up but anyways

00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.240
so we there's two different

00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:38.799
definitions okay hold on just one

00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:47.240
second my dog's wishes have ingressed

00:49:47.240 --> 00:49:49.720
into me so when they want to come in I

00:49:49.720 --> 00:49:52.960
can't I experience it just like I have I

00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:55.280
want to open the door like there's it

00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:59.880
seem seamless it's awful okay so

00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.880
descendent

00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:06.640
NTS and and I I just G to give you the

00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:08.240
way to understand it's like the first

00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:11.319
amoeba and its two descendant descendant

00:50:11.319 --> 00:50:15.400
are not cotemporaries

00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.040
okay I get it and the same thing as

00:50:19.040 --> 00:50:23.720
antecedent d n TS is like the word

00:50:23.720 --> 00:50:26.160
ancestors indigenous people don't call

00:50:26.160 --> 00:50:28.880
their parents their ancestors ancestors

00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:32.480
are they're in they're not cotemporaries

00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:36.799
okay so antients ENT TS and descendents

00:50:36.799 --> 00:50:38.760
are not cotemporaries

00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.400
now with the humans we have something

00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:46.760
more complex we have

00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:51.559
um we have descend Dan ANS which means

00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.839
we are internally related to our parents

00:50:53.839 --> 00:50:57.079
like all descendents are but we're

00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:00.040
contemporary so we also then build

00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:03.440
external relations which makes the human

00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:06.640
any kind of animal that is a pro-social

00:51:06.640 --> 00:51:08.640
animal with their parents you get

00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:10.880
psychological structures that extremely

00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:12.720
more complex it's a difference that

00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:13.720
makes a

00:51:13.720 --> 00:51:17.480
difference and then but even having said

00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:21.319
that eventually the parent is fully

00:51:21.319 --> 00:51:24.079
metabolized by its children and its

00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.160
other creations just like the amoeba

00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:27.720
except there's an

00:51:27.720 --> 00:51:31.559
overlap and then they live on because

00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:34.359
not only the internal relations that I

00:51:34.359 --> 00:51:36.480
get from my parents some of them are

00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:39.799
concrete like DNA but all kinds of gut

00:51:39.799 --> 00:51:43.960
biome and epigenetic factors but the

00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:46.040
external relations I have with my

00:51:46.040 --> 00:51:48.720
parents that Ingress into me means my

00:51:48.720 --> 00:51:50.520
parents live in

00:51:50.520 --> 00:51:53.400
me as my internal relations the same way

00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.040
God lives in me this is four-fold

00:51:57.040 --> 00:51:59.160
multiscalar and I can prove that it

00:51:59.160 --> 00:52:01.400
happens with cells and electrons and

00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.680
this and that and it and it so in a way

00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:06.760
gaffney's right I mean he I'm just

00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:08.480
hearing Gaffney saying this is what I'm

00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:10.680
saying but he doesn't know he his thing

00:52:10.680 --> 00:52:13.480
is like oh arrows electrons love you

00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.440
know he's it's not it's not worked out

00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.920
but this is in in people's

00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:21.520
imagination so yes the word descendence

00:52:21.520 --> 00:52:22.799
is

00:52:22.799 --> 00:52:26.280
everything and it's like the octopus in

00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:28.799
my octopus teacher it's so it's amazing

00:52:28.799 --> 00:52:31.160
because there's a little bit of

00:52:31.160 --> 00:52:34.040
overlap um but she's completely

00:52:34.040 --> 00:52:35.640
metabolized

00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:39.359
by giving you know and this is my what

00:52:39.359 --> 00:52:42.119
I'm going to claim is what is the on and

00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.640
future God is God is completely

00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:48.240
metabolized in creation but it's just

00:52:48.240 --> 00:52:50.079
not like he's not there he's there and

00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.720
not there at the same time because he's

00:52:52.720 --> 00:52:55.640
internally related to everything he or

00:52:55.640 --> 00:52:58.240
she I mean look it good Catholic he God

00:52:58.240 --> 00:53:00.359
he God he right good

00:53:00.359 --> 00:53:02.000
Catholic

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:08.599
um so um now you're going to

00:53:09.319 --> 00:53:11.960
have I just feel called to say this

00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:13.880
because so much is going on so now we

00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.520
can reinterpret the Trinity if you want

00:53:16.520 --> 00:53:21.000
to do a Catholic thing here and that is

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.680
we first conceived of God as external

00:53:24.680 --> 00:53:25.680
relation

00:53:25.680 --> 00:53:28.160
he's up there in the sky he makes things

00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:30.599
we're externally related to

00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:35.400
him and God says that I'm not

00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.319
external to them why do they think I'm

00:53:37.319 --> 00:53:39.160
external I'm gonna prove to them they're

00:53:39.160 --> 00:53:42.119
external I'm gonna make myself man and

00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:45.119
then I'm going to die and this man

00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:46.760
Christ is going to be completely

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:49.640
metabolized by his own

00:53:49.640 --> 00:53:52.640
death so they'll finally get it I'm not

00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:54.960
around I'm around like Jesus is around

00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:58.240
not not like the guy in the sky Jesus is

00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:00.000
around and not around just like any

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.160
other Mortal thing and this is why Jesus

00:54:03.160 --> 00:54:05.559
says number one it is

00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:08.599
finished and number two why did you

00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:12.319
abandon me yes it's it's a one he's it's

00:54:12.319 --> 00:54:15.599
a Once God now it's over but then you

00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.079
need the holy spirit because the holy

00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.480
spirit is the internal relations that

00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.119
are still

00:54:23.319 --> 00:54:26.640
there this is what I think think the the

00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:29.160
Trinity is I think it's you know these

00:54:29.160 --> 00:54:32.359
are these are insights that are very

00:54:32.359 --> 00:54:36.760
strong and they need updated updated

00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:39.880
interpretations but so that's why the

00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:43.440
thing's called a once in future

00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:47.720
god um does that make sense in some kind

00:54:47.720 --> 00:54:50.960
of way

00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:52.960
yes

00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:54.880
Anna this is what this is what we're

00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:58.119
doing next year preview spoiler alert

00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:01.160
spoiler alert I told you the

00:55:01.160 --> 00:55:03.280
end yes it feels like I don't want to

00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.599
ask the question anymore because it's

00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:07.799
it's

00:55:08.240 --> 00:55:13.200
sad um but I'm in I I love the full full

00:55:13.200 --> 00:55:15.760
fourfold typology of internal relations

00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:17.440
that you mentioned and what we're just

00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:19.720
exploring in the ingression and I also

00:55:19.720 --> 00:55:22.039
love the video what is wisdom what Katie

00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:25.960
te made Katie made from you and in that

00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:28.799
video you were talking about when the

00:55:28.799 --> 00:55:32.720
violin maker actually knows how to feel

00:55:32.720 --> 00:55:35.000
the grain of the wood and the soil where

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:37.440
where the tree comes from and just

00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.960
knowing how already knows how the sound

00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:42.680
of the violin will how it will or the

00:55:42.680 --> 00:55:44.839
cello or whatever you're making and a

00:55:44.839 --> 00:55:46.240
real good friend of mine she actually is

00:55:46.240 --> 00:55:48.920
a cello and a violin maker

00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:52.119
but when she expressed at the end of her

00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.680
process and then we put the soul in the

00:55:55.680 --> 00:55:58.480
violin and then we and we don't have a

00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:01.400
word in English I believe when when you

00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:03.520
do that of course a soul but it's a very

00:56:03.520 --> 00:56:05.720
different word she's French and she said

00:56:05.720 --> 00:56:08.559
put the soul in the violin and her hands

00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:12.559
are all broken and and just just really

00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:16.119
working hands and then and then she says

00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:19.280
and then I give give the soul away to

00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.359
someone who will hear it and then I

00:56:22.359 --> 00:56:24.480
could hear the relationship from the

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:25.480
soil

00:56:25.480 --> 00:56:29.400
to the whole process of her putting life

00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.440
into the violin or the cell or the bow

00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:33.920
or whatever she makes and then giving it

00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:36.520
away and then it comes and it gets

00:56:36.520 --> 00:56:39.400
another life and I'm I'm

00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:43.119
curious about this ingression when I I

00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:44.480
think I talk about that with you with

00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.520
the frogs we've we've got a frog pond

00:56:46.520 --> 00:56:50.079
and a big a project is going to be going

00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:51.880
to be set up here people are making

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:53.319
houses

00:56:53.319 --> 00:56:56.039
and my heart was just going out for the

00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.440
frogs and I thought you're going to be

00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:01.280
gone here soon and all of a sudden the

00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:03.440
last couple of weeks they're just coming

00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:07.119
closer in this part of where we live and

00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:10.280
I'm like wow it's coming closer and and

00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:12.520
what does this mean with this attention

00:57:12.520 --> 00:57:16.280
and intention and aggression because I I

00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:19.240
I hear it and something is happening

00:57:19.240 --> 00:57:21.839
with it as well at the same time and I

00:57:21.839 --> 00:57:23.960
don't feel it's a I wonder I don't know

00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:25.880
but it doesn't feel like a coincidence

00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:28.599
it feels like very intentional movement

00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:30.920
of some energy and I don't know if that

00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:35.079
makes any sense but yeah it all it

00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:38.160
has this word ingression is at at play

00:57:38.160 --> 00:57:42.520
with that you know in in in ingressing I

00:57:42.520 --> 00:57:44.960
think White had used the word which is

00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:49.720
why I use it it's but um

00:57:53.799 --> 00:57:55.680
Ingress

00:57:55.680 --> 00:57:57.240
yeah I mean that could be a definition

00:57:57.240 --> 00:58:00.520
of soul is the original

00:58:00.520 --> 00:58:05.280
well yeah it's soul is both you know the

00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.119
internal relations with God but it has

00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:08.720
it's very unique at the same time there

00:58:08.720 --> 00:58:10.359
is contingency but anyways I won't get

00:58:10.359 --> 00:58:13.839
into that

00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.599
um so I'm not really saying anything

00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:20.240
that like you guys won't resonate with

00:58:20.240 --> 00:58:22.160
you from your own experience but I'm

00:58:22.160 --> 00:58:26.280
trying to make it uh philosophically

00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:30.240
rigorous so that people

00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:33.799
who expect their religion that's not a

00:58:33.799 --> 00:58:35.440
religion to be

00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:38.200
philosophically rigorous we can we can

00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:39.720
show them

00:58:39.720 --> 00:58:41.680
one

00:58:41.680 --> 00:58:46.119
um or else or else we won't get enough

00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:48.039
adoption from it it'll just be another

00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:50.119
story you know like a lot of different

00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:53.559
stories that are Beautiful Stories so

00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:58.680
um but but it's also I think interesting

00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:00.680
to

00:59:00.680 --> 00:59:02.720
correctly

00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:04.920
um

00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:08.240
conceptualize reality and have it map

00:59:08.240 --> 00:59:09.680
onto

00:59:09.680 --> 00:59:13.400
your spiritual or religious

00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:15.920
intuitions versus now we have spiritual

00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:18.200
and religious intuitions and then when

00:59:18.200 --> 00:59:20.880
we have to understand what the doctor is

00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:23.039
saying about this test then we have then

00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:25.520
we have to code switch know it would be

00:59:25.520 --> 00:59:29.079
nice if if there wasn't so much code

00:59:29.079 --> 00:59:30.640
switching

00:59:30.640 --> 00:59:33.760
um the immune system it's a beautiful

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.359
example of

00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:40.559
ingression and that's you know that's

00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:43.599
what lot where complexity comes from but

00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:46.599
anyways

00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:50.920
Holly MC furland Farland

00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:55.240
no um yeah I'm glad you

00:59:55.240 --> 00:59:56.960
we're talking actually about the the

00:59:56.960 --> 00:59:59.880
Trinity I had a I had a really big

00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:02.760
moment during your illich course um when

01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:05.880
you were talking about how he you know

01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.599
was like chist like with Christ it the

01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:11.319
evolution ended like Christ's

01:00:11.319 --> 01:00:14.039
Consciousness is sort of that's that's

01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:17.400
the future like in a way like the future

01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:22.000
is it's it sort of um it just sort of

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:23.760
gave me the sense of like that's sort of

01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:25.599
this sort of I know if it's an endo but

01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:28.960
there's something there um and if it

01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:32.440
already exists it it exists within me

01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:35.119
and that was just a really big thing

01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:36.960
I've been playing with

01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:40.880
um well I asked David Kelly that because

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:42.960
the Catholics have this not that was

01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.599
Ivan ilich he was convinced that go that

01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:47.359
there was kind of an end of history with

01:00:47.359 --> 01:00:49.079
Christ there's nothing there's no

01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:51.720
Messiah is coming is what he meant yeah

01:00:51.720 --> 01:00:55.280
um but I asked there is a video in the

01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:57.640
course previews with David Kayley and I

01:00:57.640 --> 01:00:59.960
asked him about kosis kosis means

01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:03.640
emptying God empties himself and I said

01:01:03.640 --> 01:01:06.880
is that the same as saying that he fully

01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:09.359
metabolizes himself into creation and

01:01:09.359 --> 01:01:13.640
then David said well I don't know Ivon

01:01:13.640 --> 01:01:15.960
definitely thought God was still

01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:20.160
around um I'm not sure but it's not

01:01:20.160 --> 01:01:23.599
clear um so uh you know in the book I'm

01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:26.000
going to say that's what kosis means

01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:29.160
like emptying doesn't mean empty like

01:01:29.160 --> 01:01:31.200
Buddha or

01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:34.280
empty like you know not Buddha like the

01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.400
Zen emptiness and and kosis is very

01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:39.119
popular with the Buddhists because they

01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:40.400
want to say that that's what the

01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:43.880
Christians meant that you know that that

01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:45.400
this notion of

01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:48.720
emptiness um and internal relations is

01:01:48.720 --> 01:01:52.000
not empty it's it's exact it's it's and

01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:54.640
and and it's also what internal

01:01:54.640 --> 01:01:57.920
relations are is latent potency which is

01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:00.599
the definition of subjectivity of their

01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:02.119
self

01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:05.480
so well what I was like feeling into

01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:08.079
with that was like that kind of Christ

01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:10.640
Consciousness it's it's um it sort of

01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:12.680
exists within and so for me I've been

01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:15.039
playing with this of a revelation it's

01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.240
it's revealing it's revealing what's

01:02:17.240 --> 01:02:20.720
already in there um and in my in going

01:02:20.720 --> 01:02:22.599
with individuation I I I kind of like

01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:24.400
the word distinction a little better

01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.240
coming distinguished or something um but

01:02:28.240 --> 01:02:30.160
it's revealing what's like that Christ

01:02:30.160 --> 01:02:32.000
Consciousness is already in there and so

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.079
it's like this process of revealing that

01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:35.319
out into the

01:02:35.319 --> 01:02:39.599
world um and doing it in my own unique

01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:41.920
way like it's not I'm not mimicking

01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:44.319
Christ right Consciousness lives within

01:02:44.319 --> 01:02:46.440
and I'm expressing it in the only way

01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.680
Holly can express it um and so it's just

01:02:49.680 --> 01:02:52.359
sort of interesting playing with this um

01:02:52.359 --> 01:02:54.920
idea of Revelation revealing something

01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:58.799
as well as the ingression

01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:01.960
piece and it's so different you know it

01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:03.760
it says Christianity the message of

01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:06.839
Christianity is not C cath catechism

01:03:06.839 --> 01:03:09.000
catechism says you know you're born with

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.559
original sin and I'm saying no you're

01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:13.279
born with Christ Consciousness or you're

01:03:13.279 --> 01:03:15.920
born with the internal relations of God

01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:18.760
or the latent potency potency that comes

01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:23.160
from God is it's you know it's it's in

01:03:23.160 --> 01:03:25.839
the in the cells in in at every level of

01:03:25.839 --> 01:03:29.839
agency there's internal relations so um

01:03:29.839 --> 01:03:32.960
yeah yeah so it's not just one with God

01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:36.480
it's not just an amoeba and it's

01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:39.000
internally related to all its

01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:42.279
descendants but God is the single first

01:03:42.279 --> 01:03:45.480
internal relations which all of creation

01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:48.559
then carries is internally related to

01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.520
that and this brings us back to that

01:03:50.520 --> 01:03:52.720
strange conversation I with John with

01:03:52.720 --> 01:03:55.319
Veri where like I think you said it was

01:03:55.319 --> 01:03:57.000
like he was trying to chase butterflies

01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:58.559
or something and I was telling him you

01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:01.599
cannot have a dialogue like opponent he

01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:03.200
was talking about opponent process

01:04:03.200 --> 01:04:05.319
dialogue with God and he was doing this

01:04:05.319 --> 01:04:08.160
with his hands you can't face God that

01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:10.359
way and have a dialogue with him because

01:04:10.359 --> 01:04:12.160
you're internally related to him you

01:04:12.160 --> 01:04:15.119
cannot have external in relationships

01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:17.400
with God you can have external relations

01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:21.039
with his creations and then that

01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:26.720
ingresses and this is this is you know

01:04:26.720 --> 01:04:29.279
so and then this is part of not having

01:04:29.279 --> 01:04:31.160
splits because you look at the other

01:04:31.160 --> 01:04:35.440
type and inside them you see the same

01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:37.079
Source that's in you which is the

01:04:37.079 --> 01:04:39.640
original internal relation the original

01:04:39.640 --> 01:04:45.279
amoeba is you know um there is not there

01:04:45.279 --> 01:04:47.270
it's

01:04:47.270 --> 01:04:48.839
[Music]

01:04:48.839 --> 01:04:52.520
there and and so that's the

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:58.079
metaphorical framing of of this thing

01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:00.400
that I'm trying that I'm

01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.920
writing so let me just say this this is

01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:05.359
why we spent some time on compound and

01:05:05.359 --> 01:05:08.039
collectives it wasn't the height of our

01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.440
thing but a compound

01:05:10.440 --> 01:05:13.680
individual um has certain members are

01:05:13.680 --> 01:05:16.839
internally related in a certain way and

01:05:16.839 --> 01:05:19.440
collectives have internal and external

01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:21.440
relations that are cotemporary I had to

01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.400
make all these distinctions because the

01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:26.279
process philosophers they keep using the

01:05:26.279 --> 01:05:29.480
term internal relations but there's four

01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.640
different planes in which that word

01:05:31.640 --> 01:05:34.160
means something different just like we

01:05:34.160 --> 01:05:37.680
use the word seed is the seed the the

01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:40.119
hole from which the tree comes or is the

01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.200
seed the part that the trees make well

01:05:43.200 --> 01:05:46.680
the word seed is doing too much work and

01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:49.440
the word internal relations was doing

01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:51.480
too much work and I could feel it but I

01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:53.680
couldn't re I couldn't find anyone who

01:05:53.680 --> 01:05:55.520
any place where they could explain it to

01:05:55.520 --> 01:05:58.720
me so I had to work it

01:05:58.720 --> 01:06:01.039
out funny

01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:04.520
um can you hear me oh that's really

01:06:04.520 --> 01:06:08.039
weird I've never used this headphones um

01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:09.640
oh they're weird hold on you can't hear

01:06:09.640 --> 01:06:12.720
yourself there um I have to turn them

01:06:12.720 --> 01:06:15.760
off because I can hear weird stuff

01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:18.440
outside I can't hear myself it's

01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:22.200
weird um I'm curious because in some in

01:06:22.200 --> 01:06:24.599
some ways your work has

01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:28.960
been very different to the work of some

01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:31.799
of the Russian you know any bessin work

01:06:31.799 --> 01:06:34.760
have you the esoteric like

01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.839
blavatsky oh yes yeah so for me it was

01:06:37.839 --> 01:06:40.039
always very different and yet when you

01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:45.720
talk about this particular part of the

01:06:45.720 --> 01:06:47.559
and especially this part that the Holly

01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:51.760
just spoke of uh what they speak of the

01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:54.559
the Christ um they speak speak about the

01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:57.640
Christ whatever Consciousness the is a

01:06:57.640 --> 01:07:00.119
is a biomarker to use your language but

01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.000
that's how it's a biomarker in the heart

01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:06.799
that when you awaken to it it feels like

01:07:06.799 --> 01:07:09.440
you met Christ and if you have actual

01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:12.200
pictures like if you if you have

01:07:12.200 --> 01:07:15.160
ingressed or whatever gone to church

01:07:15.160 --> 01:07:17.400
then you can think you can think in that

01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:21.760
way but it is um it is a flowering of a

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:24.760
particular part in in the the body

01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:26.599
structure and energetic structure so I

01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:29.319
don't know if that's um

01:07:29.319 --> 01:07:32.880
also what you're you're pointing to and

01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:34.960
and um but one of the things that they

01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:37.000
do say too that I find interesting and I

01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:38.640
don't know if that's what you say when

01:07:38.640 --> 01:07:41.480
you talk to gaffan and it's because a

01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:44.799
lot of this work and I mean by this work

01:07:44.799 --> 01:07:47.440
is whenever we try to do something final

01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.640
like there's a final yeah there's

01:07:49.640 --> 01:07:52.039
there's a whole book of Annie Besson

01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:54.680
talking about the pathology of the

01:07:54.680 --> 01:07:58.200
mystics and and in that book most of

01:07:58.200 --> 01:08:00.839
what we consider Enlightenment is a

01:08:00.839 --> 01:08:03.440
pathology like it's so it's it's a

01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:06.799
partial understanding of reality that is

01:08:06.799 --> 01:08:09.200
um interpreted from that place in

01:08:09.200 --> 01:08:11.400
Consciousness written a book from and

01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:13.400
then we aspire to

01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:17.359
that and I don't know I just and then it

01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:19.719
kind of weaves for me when you say about

01:08:19.719 --> 01:08:22.640
the dualities or the how I interpreted

01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:25.520
the beginning of your conversation here

01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:28.480
about how in some ways you're seeing

01:08:28.480 --> 01:08:30.920
that you're saying the same as gaffan or

01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:32.400
you're saying the same as different but

01:08:32.400 --> 01:08:33.759
people are interpreting in different

01:08:33.759 --> 01:08:37.560
ways or but actually

01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.880
um there's so the SAS here so loud it's

01:08:40.880 --> 01:08:42.640
distracting me I can't think straight

01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:44.319
they like they're crazy but they're

01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:48.560
beautiful um so I'm

01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:51.040
just I guess yeah I don't even know if I

01:08:51.040 --> 01:08:54.440
have a a particular uh cohes thought I

01:08:54.440 --> 01:08:58.600
was just I was just noticing that um it

01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:00.759
might sound more dualistic it might

01:09:00.759 --> 01:09:03.080
sound dualistic when you when when

01:09:03.080 --> 01:09:05.400
people speak or even they might

01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:07.719
experience it in a particular dualistic

01:09:07.719 --> 01:09:09.279
way which might make sense because the

01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.279
teacher outside pointing it to Jesus is

01:09:12.279 --> 01:09:15.159
more it's easier than actually really

01:09:15.159 --> 01:09:17.799
really feeling it inside yourself so

01:09:17.799 --> 01:09:20.080
that can help until it doesn't help

01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:22.279
anymore and then maybe that's how it

01:09:22.279 --> 01:09:25.719
works I I don't know

01:09:28.040 --> 01:09:30.679
I'll just I'll just pause it it was just

01:09:30.679 --> 01:09:33.279
a blah blah

01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:39.120
blah I think that what because because

01:09:39.120 --> 01:09:41.199
there's two things there's a small book

01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:43.359
that'll be really filled with

01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:45.159
distinctions and blah blah blah like the

01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:47.000
distinctions between descendants and

01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:49.960
descendants and relating these things to

01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:51.040
process

01:09:51.040 --> 01:09:54.360
philosophy um that then

01:09:54.360 --> 01:09:58.520
could help make people understand their

01:09:58.520 --> 01:10:01.760
own philosophy or their own religio uh

01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:04.560
better because they will feel that they

01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:06.800
intuited these distinctions and didn't

01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.679
have a language for it the book of Once

01:10:09.679 --> 01:10:13.760
and Future God I hope is more readable

01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:17.159
and narrative like it'll it'll it'll

01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:19.600
rely more on metaphors about the first

01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:23.159
amoeba and the beaver in the pond and

01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:25.719
and and get at the relationships that

01:10:25.719 --> 01:10:26.840
way

01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:28.640
so

01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:31.440
um

01:10:31.440 --> 01:10:35.960
uh but one of the things it it it it

01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:38.280
will help do is

01:10:38.280 --> 01:10:42.360
Bridge um science and experience

01:10:42.360 --> 01:10:44.600
metaphysics of experience phenomenology

01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:47.920
and philosophy put try to put them back

01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:51.280
give them a a a a shared grammar

01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:55.640
again um because

01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:58.600
it would be very hard to

01:10:58.600 --> 01:11:02.640
argue that the electron loves the

01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:05.400
proton everyone it's a metaphor it may

01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:10.199
be a good metaphor um but if you can

01:11:10.199 --> 01:11:14.360
explain in different language that is

01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:18.320
acceptable to a cosmology a modern day

01:11:18.320 --> 01:11:21.880
cosmology and from which you can derive

01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:24.159
the animal realm and a

01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:28.960
and Human Experience and then then you

01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:31.719
might um

01:11:31.719 --> 01:11:34.520
reenchant the human

01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:38.960
project um so um that's the challenge

01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:42.360
that I have I mean any any good Mystic

01:11:42.360 --> 01:11:45.360
with poetic license is is saying a lot

01:11:45.360 --> 01:11:48.639
of what I'm saying anyways um but it's

01:11:48.639 --> 01:11:51.960
it sits over there in its own domain and

01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:54.480
then we have to code switch when we talk

01:11:54.480 --> 01:11:58.760
about cosmology or something else so I

01:11:58.760 --> 01:12:01.040
think blacks you know the Russians were

01:12:01.040 --> 01:12:03.280
trying to do something like that very

01:12:03.280 --> 01:12:06.719
practical you know um if I have time I'm

01:12:06.719 --> 01:12:08.960
GNA reread some of Ora bindo because I

01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:11.880
think he was I could find things that he

01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:14.639
said that you you get a hit like he's

01:12:14.639 --> 01:12:16.000
saying something but you don't what the

01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:17.560
 he's saying you know what I'm

01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:21.760
saying so I'm trying to allow us to have

01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:24.040
more precise religion

01:12:24.040 --> 01:12:29.199
language across many domains and and and

01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:33.440
um and if it's timely enough then it

01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:36.600
will resonate with quite a lot of people

01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:37.960
and then we can have larger

01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:39.920
conversations because we're using words

01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:41.920
that have quite a lot of precision

01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:43.760
they're not that hard to remember

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.480
ingression descendent you know there's

01:12:46.480 --> 01:12:47.400
there's

01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:50.159
Precision um but they're not hard to

01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:52.360
remember because they're they're

01:12:52.360 --> 01:12:55.760
precisely defined mind versus transc

01:12:55.760 --> 01:12:58.040
contextualism like she says that all the

01:12:58.040 --> 01:13:00.400
time Nora Bateson and I kind of get what

01:13:00.400 --> 01:13:01.920
she means but I don't know what she

01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:04.440
means you know what I'm saying you can't

01:13:04.440 --> 01:13:07.120
you can't get from here to there across

01:13:07.120 --> 01:13:09.760
the diversity of human experience and

01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:13.040
use words that are so Broad and slippery

01:13:13.040 --> 01:13:14.600
that you don't I mean you can have a

01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:16.040
good heart and you can feel you're

01:13:16.040 --> 01:13:19.080
making meaning but you don't really know

01:13:19.080 --> 01:13:20.760
what people are

01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:25.159
saying um and so part of what I'm doing

01:13:25.159 --> 01:13:27.159
you know John verve's like we need a

01:13:27.159 --> 01:13:29.360
shared grammar we need a

01:13:29.360 --> 01:13:34.960
vernacular um so um yeah so if it's if

01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:37.800
you know one of the things that any any

01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:40.960
spirituality has to appeal to your your

01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:44.840
spiritual intuitions so it's not going

01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:48.120
to it's not going to tell a story that's

01:13:48.120 --> 01:13:49.760
different than a story that you hold in

01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:51.880
your heart but it's going to have these

01:13:51.880 --> 01:13:54.920
other hopefully benefits like Precision

01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:58.520
of language able to speak across domains

01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:01.960
um get rid of the subject object

01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:04.880
Duality like we all know we all can go

01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:07.239
around saying oh subject object Duality

01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:10.040
it's not real but we have no other way

01:14:10.040 --> 01:14:12.040
to talk about what's

01:14:12.040 --> 01:14:15.840
happening you know and no one can can

01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.560
can guide us to like what's actually

01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:20.960
happening I'm tired of people saying

01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:23.320
that the self is empty you know basic

01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:25.600
basally in the middle of what you are is

01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:29.239
just empty sonat you know that we've

01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:30.880
been fighting about this forever because

01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:34.960
it matters what kind of self you have so

01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:36.840
we don't know how to say those two

01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:38.679
things and that sound like blithering

01:14:38.679 --> 01:14:40.600
idiots telling

01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:43.320
paradoxes you know and and I think that

01:14:43.320 --> 01:14:45.960
all paradoxes you know I go Chris some

01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:48.480
people say paradoxes are the opposite of

01:14:48.480 --> 01:14:50.600
one profound truth is another profound

01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:52.880
truth I don't believe that's true I

01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:54.840
think paradoxes show us that

01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:56.480
epistemically we're doing something

01:14:56.480 --> 01:14:59.320
wrong all truths have to

01:14:59.320 --> 01:15:03.199
reconcile and so I think that my

01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:05.679
intuition I can get into that thing the

01:15:05.679 --> 01:15:07.320
self is empty I know because people

01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:08.639
think it's a thing and then it's

01:15:08.639 --> 01:15:10.280
construct and then there's simulation

01:15:10.280 --> 01:15:13.639
and blah blah blah blah but I can't say

01:15:13.639 --> 01:15:16.760
that and feel good about the fact that I

01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:19.400
truly truly believe it matters what kind

01:15:19.400 --> 01:15:23.320
of self you are so the word emptiness

01:15:23.320 --> 01:15:26.520
and the meditations on emptiness are not

01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:28.840
are not

01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:31.520
sufficient for that so then we can we

01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:33.960
can understand that in a different way

01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:35.880
like and then I go into why the self is

01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:38.040
a pure abstraction I just talked to

01:15:38.040 --> 01:15:40.840
someone who's a teacher who's very smart

01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:43.159
and I and I said he wanted to talk to me

01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:45.560
and I said yes that's

01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:48.360
because you used to work with con

01:15:48.360 --> 01:15:50.719
conceptual abstractions and now you're

01:15:50.719 --> 01:15:52.600
intuiting pure abstractions and he like

01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:56.760
got it right way and so and so so there

01:15:56.760 --> 01:15:59.639
are some things in this that I think are

01:15:59.639 --> 01:16:02.080
practical for this project of

01:16:02.080 --> 01:16:04.560
consilience and making

01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:09.480
things less gummy for a time you know um

01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:13.199
you you go to soou and he says oh people

01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:15.840
you know you can't you can't he's a zen

01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:18.440
teacher so he wants you to understand

01:16:18.440 --> 01:16:20.040
that your body is part of nature but

01:16:20.040 --> 01:16:22.120
then he's like well you can't trust your

01:16:22.120 --> 01:16:24.639
feelings well those two things because

01:16:24.639 --> 01:16:27.239
he uses the word feelings for when

01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:29.920
you're doing Vasa and feelings which are

01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:32.480
emotions and they're all constructed

01:16:32.480 --> 01:16:34.239
people get confused like can you trust

01:16:34.239 --> 01:16:36.239
your feelings or you cannot so the the

01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:38.960
language is just just not

01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:42.000
helpful it's not helpful so we have our

01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:45.560
Precision we have biomarkers and

01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:47.800
affective drivers and these things that

01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:49.360
discharge in the body at certain

01:16:49.360 --> 01:16:51.480
qualities and then we have emotions

01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:53.760
which are those things

01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:56.600
that get attached to a story all right

01:16:56.600 --> 01:16:59.360
so now we know simulations aren't bad we

01:16:59.360 --> 01:17:01.080
have to simulate how we're going to

01:17:01.080 --> 01:17:05.040
build this wall but simulating yourself

01:17:05.040 --> 01:17:07.600
and then projecting your identity on the

01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.400
simulated self this is the problem not

01:17:11.400 --> 01:17:14.000
the use of your mind right we talked

01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:17.040
about this like what I'm doing now is

01:17:17.040 --> 01:17:19.480
directly trying to simulate a reality

01:17:19.480 --> 01:17:21.520
into your imagination using my

01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:24.679
imagination the whole things

01:17:24.679 --> 01:17:26.679
simulation

01:17:26.679 --> 01:17:29.840
so so and these are questions like my

01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:31.120
friend asked me and I'm reading

01:17:31.120 --> 01:17:32.880
Christopher Alexander and isn't he

01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:35.400
simulating I'm using my mind and you

01:17:35.400 --> 01:17:37.480
know and he goes to the Zen teacher and

01:17:37.480 --> 01:17:38.719
they're like you're not supposed to have

01:17:38.719 --> 01:17:41.040
thoughts and he's all confused the thing

01:17:41.040 --> 01:17:44.199
is just hopelessly

01:17:45.639 --> 01:17:49.040
pakaka we you know we need something

01:17:49.040 --> 01:17:52.360
more more precise and I know that word

01:17:52.360 --> 01:17:53.520
is

01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:57.120
got a lot of baggage but I only mean by

01:17:57.120 --> 01:18:00.719
what we're doing here um Precision

01:18:00.719 --> 01:18:03.600
what's a descendant and what's a

01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:05.840
descendant well now it makes a

01:18:05.840 --> 01:18:08.280
difference because if I'm an amoeba and

01:18:08.280 --> 01:18:09.760
I have two

01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:12.520
babies I I can only be internally

01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:16.320
related to them but this really cool

01:18:16.320 --> 01:18:18.199
thing happens with humans and other

01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:20.440
animals that you're cotemporary with

01:18:20.440 --> 01:18:23.800
your with your descendants and this

01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:25.320
complexifies

01:18:25.320 --> 01:18:29.800
things and some particles some particles

01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:33.440
and some proteins and some chemicals are

01:18:33.440 --> 01:18:37.840
only react to give descend dents and

01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:41.040
some give descend dance and this solves

01:18:41.040 --> 01:18:42.760
a problem people don't understand why we

01:18:42.760 --> 01:18:44.719
have so much complexity because the

01:18:44.719 --> 01:18:47.280
amount of time it would make to randomly

01:18:47.280 --> 01:18:49.280
produce all the proteins in the world is

01:18:49.280 --> 01:18:53.920
longer than the age of the universe

01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:56.280
and it's because they see protein chains

01:18:56.280 --> 01:18:57.520
as

01:18:57.520 --> 01:19:00.760
descendent and not

01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:04.000
descendent evolutionarily we have both

01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:06.000
we're both

01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:09.400
descendents from the ancestor between

01:19:09.400 --> 01:19:12.040
the human and the and the animals right

01:19:12.040 --> 01:19:15.159
that that that ancestor that when we

01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:18.679
branched off is no longer there so we're

01:19:18.679 --> 01:19:21.480
descendents but we are cotemporaries

01:19:21.480 --> 01:19:23.920
with the ancestors

01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:28.520
with with the animals this makes a huge

01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:32.360
difference I mean all of this is really

01:19:32.360 --> 01:19:34.679
I don't know if this is boring to me

01:19:34.679 --> 01:19:37.679
it's just it's just

01:19:37.679 --> 01:19:41.440
really it's it's a

01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:54.840
re-enchantment

01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:59.960
humans will have descendant we won't be

01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:07.280
around and it's the your relationship

01:20:07.280 --> 01:20:09.000
with your ancestors which is different

01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:10.960
than the relationship with my mother and

01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:14.800
my grandmother you see it's a difference

01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:18.400
it's a difference that makes a huge

01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:24.760
difference

01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:52.000
Bonnie can I ask another another

01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:55.840
question sure her about about it's not

01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:58.480
going to be on integral or men or women

01:20:58.480 --> 01:20:59.560
I

01:20:59.560 --> 01:21:02.159
promise it's um oh I like when you ask

01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:03.600
me about integral because it helps

01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:05.360
Bridge something hold on hold on I can't

01:21:05.360 --> 01:21:08.520
hear you anymore this bloody

01:21:08.520 --> 01:21:11.080
headphone oh I hate this headphone can

01:21:11.080 --> 01:21:12.080
you hear

01:21:12.080 --> 01:21:15.080
me can't do it just

01:21:15.080 --> 01:21:19.199
I sorry I didn't hear can you hear me

01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:21.040
yeah yeah no they're good it's good to

01:21:21.040 --> 01:21:22.960
ask questions because you and I really

01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:25.400
know integral well and then if you could

01:21:25.400 --> 01:21:27.239
see the steps to get from here to there

01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:29.320
then you can understand this so yeah

01:21:29.320 --> 01:21:30.679
they're good questions I just was

01:21:30.679 --> 01:21:34.159
teasing you I think I'm I'm I'm curious

01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:37.360
and the and the curiosity is more on the

01:21:37.360 --> 01:21:39.560
popup School itself and your thinking

01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:41.480
because I was I was hearing the hollow

01:21:41.480 --> 01:21:44.159
and I was hearing I was going back to

01:21:44.159 --> 01:21:47.239
some of your earlier work when I when I

01:21:47.239 --> 01:21:50.040
got more familiar with your work and I

01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:52.040
saw you talking about these patches to

01:21:52.040 --> 01:21:53.480
the Future

01:21:53.480 --> 01:21:56.320
and and um and I was just thinking the

01:21:56.320 --> 01:21:58.520
popup school to me which I love because

01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:01.080
it kind of really does it does what you

01:22:01.080 --> 01:22:03.679
said at the Holiday you were up to doing

01:22:03.679 --> 01:22:06.560
which is um bring novelty into the

01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:09.239
system so if that's your goal I'm like

01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:12.520
you're a master of it because you are

01:22:12.520 --> 01:22:15.159
constantly bringing novelty into the

01:22:15.159 --> 01:22:17.400
system and into my system which which

01:22:17.400 --> 01:22:20.679
doesn't allow me to fall lazy to

01:22:20.679 --> 01:22:22.760
patterns of thinking they're not useful

01:22:22.760 --> 01:22:25.360
in in the thinking that I'm doing so it

01:22:25.360 --> 01:22:28.400
feels really useful I I love it because

01:22:28.400 --> 01:22:31.120
I constantly have to look at different

01:22:31.120 --> 01:22:34.760
ways and engage in different ways but my

01:22:34.760 --> 01:22:37.639
curiosity is that that sometimes I hear

01:22:37.639 --> 01:22:40.560
you and not criticizing but I hear you

01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:42.719
disagreeing with somebody or something

01:22:42.719 --> 01:22:45.480
and the way that I'm looking at I'm like

01:22:45.480 --> 01:22:47.360
you're like the future human you're like

01:22:47.360 --> 01:22:49.960
shaking things up and bringing novelty

01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:52.320
and this person might be trying to build

01:22:52.320 --> 01:22:56.280
the Bridge from what we have and what it

01:22:56.280 --> 01:22:58.440
like just a little tiny step and

01:22:58.440 --> 01:23:00.440
sometimes and I don't know if that's

01:23:00.440 --> 01:23:05.239
true but sometimes I feel that um the

01:23:05.239 --> 01:23:08.560
provocations you're making are like they

01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:10.520
land for me deeply but they're like a

01:23:10.520 --> 01:23:13.560
hundred years from maybe where humans

01:23:13.560 --> 01:23:17.080
are as a collective like like we're so

01:23:17.080 --> 01:23:21.120
not here which I which is fine I which

01:23:21.120 --> 01:23:23.880
is fine but I'm just thinking if in your

01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:26.239
thinking there is any need

01:23:26.239 --> 01:23:29.080
for and maybe that's not yours to do at

01:23:29.080 --> 01:23:31.719
all but uh just the actual like little

01:23:31.719 --> 01:23:35.719
tiny the the person that's over here uh

01:23:35.719 --> 01:23:38.520
super judgmental of the other one that's

01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:41.400
not going to understand um what you mean

01:23:41.400 --> 01:23:44.159
by by those lines you know like anyway

01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:46.960
so I'm just I'm just trying to to see

01:23:46.960 --> 01:23:48.960
how you see your work and the work of

01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:52.000
some people that are not disagreeing

01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:53.560
with you but they're you know they're

01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:55.480
just another in another place talking to

01:23:55.480 --> 01:23:57.560
different people or something like that

01:23:57.560 --> 01:23:59.280
that's a good question you know this man

01:23:59.280 --> 01:24:02.040
that I met with today he was part of the

01:24:02.040 --> 01:24:04.679
really hard uh Collective Insight

01:24:04.679 --> 01:24:07.120
practices that we were doing and I

01:24:07.120 --> 01:24:09.800
probably see him he probably contacts me

01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:11.320
every eight months or so he was a

01:24:11.320 --> 01:24:14.360
student of Yasuo Camaros for a long

01:24:14.360 --> 01:24:18.120
time anyways he was telling me about

01:24:18.120 --> 01:24:22.040
like um uh he was watching some of the

01:24:22.040 --> 01:24:23.960
videos knows and I was explaining him my

01:24:23.960 --> 01:24:26.239
new work he always like has these

01:24:26.239 --> 01:24:27.800
questions eight months later he comes to

01:24:27.800 --> 01:24:29.920
me I'm tell oh I'll tell you I I know

01:24:29.920 --> 01:24:31.800
what you're talking about now because

01:24:31.800 --> 01:24:33.800
we're kind of like in the same but he

01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:35.040
doesn't have a language for it so

01:24:35.040 --> 01:24:36.960
anyways he said you know I used to think

01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:39.320
you were just a contrarian like Wilbur

01:24:39.320 --> 01:24:41.320
would say something and You' say ah no

01:24:41.320 --> 01:24:42.960
you got that wrong you're interpreting

01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.280
this and then yasu would say something

01:24:45.280 --> 01:24:47.719
and you be like yeah but no not quite

01:24:47.719 --> 01:24:50.440
right and he and he said at first I just

01:24:50.440 --> 01:24:51.679
thought you're this like one of those

01:24:51.679 --> 01:24:53.239
people that's where you get your energy

01:24:53.239 --> 01:24:55.639
from you know and he's like now I

01:24:55.639 --> 01:24:58.360
understand why you're so

01:24:58.360 --> 01:25:01.159
frustrated um so I don't do this to

01:25:01.159 --> 01:25:04.040
everyone but where it starts to get

01:25:04.040 --> 01:25:07.560
friction is where I start to see people

01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:10.080
and I think they're really uh honest

01:25:10.080 --> 01:25:12.760
workers they've done meditation they

01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:16.199
conceptually can go meta and it seems

01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:18.880
like if I could just turn one little

01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:21.280
switch then boom boom boom boom boom

01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:25.199
boom they would leap ahead and I often

01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:28.159
make mistakes because then I'll realize

01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:31.000
they don't even get it like joh Veri

01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:33.679
cannot get it he doesn't get it he

01:25:33.679 --> 01:25:36.480
cannot so he I'm not interested in

01:25:36.480 --> 01:25:40.920
trying to push him or try to create that

01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:48.760
generative tension um so um uh and and

01:25:48.760 --> 01:25:53.360
then so so but for some people you know

01:25:53.360 --> 01:25:55.280
like this guy and some other people I

01:25:55.280 --> 01:25:57.119
have I work with so many people and then

01:25:57.119 --> 01:26:00.400
I'm gonna have three people come in on

01:26:00.400 --> 01:26:03.119
Sunday and Monday and they're working on

01:26:03.119 --> 01:26:06.239
their phds so last time I saw them they

01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:08.119
were up to this they'll get there

01:26:08.119 --> 01:26:10.199
they're starting to read and then now

01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:12.239
they'll have new questions and I'll be

01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:14.440
able to okay now they're ready to hear

01:26:14.440 --> 01:26:16.600
something real wild you want to and I

01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:19.880
I'm always breaking their frame but it

01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:22.600
takes some from what some while to to

01:26:22.600 --> 01:26:25.600
fill in the frame to before they realize

01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:27.880
they got to break it again okay so in

01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:32.159
that sense I I'm I'm I've have felt that

01:26:32.159 --> 01:26:35.239
I'm you know if I read stuff that I read

01:26:35.239 --> 01:26:38.040
15 years ago like only people are only

01:26:38.040 --> 01:26:41.080
now being able to kind of understand it

01:26:41.080 --> 01:26:44.239
um there's like a 15 year f 10 year or

01:26:44.239 --> 01:26:50.600
five year delay now um but um um but

01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:54.560
having said that my work is for people

01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:56.480
and this is why I have to write the book

01:26:56.480 --> 01:26:59.920
for people who I'm it's basically going

01:26:59.920 --> 01:27:03.000
to be an outline of principles and then

01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:04.840
it can be it's just like you know then

01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:06.840
it can be taken

01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:09.520
into um like if you're interested in

01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:12.000
ingression and you work with young

01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:14.960
children um educational design

01:27:14.960 --> 01:27:17.560
everything that they interacting with is

01:27:17.560 --> 01:27:19.360
shaping their subjectivity and then you

01:27:19.360 --> 01:27:21.840
can start to see it everywhere this will

01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:25.280
make a difference right and then so I'm

01:27:25.280 --> 01:27:28.040
not asking people to be metap Physicians

01:27:28.040 --> 01:27:30.000
that's not that's that's not for

01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:35.719
everyone but um um like my project I'm

01:27:35.719 --> 01:27:38.480
working with EVO he's going to take what

01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:43.520
I'm saying and put a um um a social

01:27:43.520 --> 01:27:46.719
change spin on it like theory of change

01:27:46.719 --> 01:27:49.000
how do societies change how how can we

01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:51.480
attack climate change he's gonna so I

01:27:51.480 --> 01:27:53.520
talked to him every week or he was here

01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:56.320
for a month so once you get the

01:27:56.320 --> 01:27:58.280
principles straight and you learn

01:27:58.280 --> 01:28:01.920
certain certain fundamental principles

01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:04.600
and you try to commit your work to not

01:28:04.600 --> 01:28:07.119
making those mistakes for

01:28:07.119 --> 01:28:10.080
example splits or something then then

01:28:10.080 --> 01:28:13.119
your work your field can can can

01:28:13.119 --> 01:28:15.800
accelerate also so it's never I'm never

01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:17.840
going to fill in all the dots took me

01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:20.719
all this time to make the dots took me

01:28:20.719 --> 01:28:23.119
all this time to find the dots

01:28:23.119 --> 01:28:24.840
uh I'm never going to connect all the

01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:29.000
dots or fill in all the spaces um but

01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:29.920
but

01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:32.719
um yeah thanks for the question I'm just

01:28:32.719 --> 01:28:34.679
gonna jump to this question Calin had

01:28:34.679 --> 01:28:36.239
because he asked about a question of

01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:41.639
scale so uh I call it in the um four

01:28:41.639 --> 01:28:45.760
four fourfold typology of uh process

01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:48.520
relations and one of the typologies is

01:28:48.520 --> 01:28:52.400
scale uh it gets extremely complex in

01:28:52.400 --> 01:28:54.119
terms of how many distinctions you have

01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:55.679
to make you have to make distinctions

01:28:55.679 --> 01:28:58.239
about descendants descendants

01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:02.040
cotemporaries non- cotemporaries

01:29:02.040 --> 01:29:07.719
and but yes scale is one of the ways in

01:29:07.719 --> 01:29:11.520
which the concept of relations changes

01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:13.800
depending upon whether you're talking

01:29:13.800 --> 01:29:18.360
about the focal level down so me down to

01:29:18.360 --> 01:29:22.400
myself or me up to society those two

01:29:22.400 --> 01:29:24.400
directions internal and external

01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:27.159
relations change what they

01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:29.600
mean and you'll see this in process

01:29:29.600 --> 01:29:31.760
philosophy they it just it's all over

01:29:31.760 --> 01:29:33.880
Whitehead I finally realized why not you

01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:35.440
can't understand Whitehead because

01:29:35.440 --> 01:29:37.000
sometimes he's using it and he doesn't

01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:39.800
even know he's he's switching context

01:29:39.800 --> 01:29:42.320
he's switching context all the time and

01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:44.119
one of the one of the context switching

01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:47.199
is scale so yes I'm not going to get

01:29:47.199 --> 01:29:50.920
into it um in we have a new section in

01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:55.080
in the in in the uh so last the last

01:29:55.080 --> 01:29:58.320
year we had the seeds essays and this

01:29:58.320 --> 01:29:59.280
year we're going to have something

01:29:59.280 --> 01:30:02.400
called The Oracle which will be writings

01:30:02.400 --> 01:30:05.040
on um some of these principles it's

01:30:05.040 --> 01:30:06.760
called The Oracle because of just what

01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:09.960
Adriana said it's like it's like crazy

01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:13.679
from the future kind of kind of um

01:30:13.679 --> 01:30:17.000
but um yeah

01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:19.600
cin yeah the other question that that

01:30:19.600 --> 01:30:22.000
was great um the other question I had is

01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:24.400
what's the difference between generative

01:30:24.400 --> 01:30:29.119
tension and a non- individuated um

01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:30.560
Behavior or

01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:33.280
self in other

01:30:33.280 --> 01:30:38.040
words when you're in a situation

01:30:38.440 --> 01:30:40.920
that you're responding

01:30:40.920 --> 01:30:42.840
to

01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:45.840
emotionally

01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:50.280
and you're

01:30:50.280 --> 01:30:52.239
realizing you know while I need to

01:30:52.239 --> 01:30:53.960
manage my

01:30:53.960 --> 01:30:55.920
behavior

01:30:55.920 --> 01:31:02.040
versus after a period of time you

01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:05.679
identify some kind of structure that is

01:31:05.679 --> 01:31:08.159
the problem so in other words

01:31:08.159 --> 01:31:10.400
that that there was there was something

01:31:10.400 --> 01:31:13.159
you were reacting to that was underneath

01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:16.600
it wasn't merely bad behavior it was

01:31:16.600 --> 01:31:19.360
literally you going into that mode of

01:31:19.360 --> 01:31:20.760
this is

01:31:20.760 --> 01:31:22.679
wrong

01:31:22.679 --> 01:31:25.800
and reacting to that and not that you're

01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:26.719
trying

01:31:26.719 --> 01:31:30.320
to um and I'm I'm just trying to Def to

01:31:30.320 --> 01:31:32.239
Define it just you I mean I'm sure you

01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:34.320
already know what I'm saying but but

01:31:34.320 --> 01:31:36.800
basically that you're in a position I'm

01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:39.199
I I deal with people at work where

01:31:39.199 --> 01:31:41.400
there's sometimes power structures are

01:31:41.400 --> 01:31:44.960
put in and you you want to just deal

01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:46.639
directly with the person you're dealing

01:31:46.639 --> 01:31:49.880
with in terms of what the the situation

01:31:49.880 --> 01:31:52.920
is but then a hierarchy is brought

01:31:52.920 --> 01:31:55.320
brought in and you're not objecting to

01:31:55.320 --> 01:31:57.560
the person you're not objecting to the

01:31:57.560 --> 01:31:59.000
the things you're dealing with you're

01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:01.600
dealing with oh your boss already dealt

01:32:01.600 --> 01:32:04.520
with oh I already talked to your boss I

01:32:04.520 --> 01:32:06.119
yeah this has already been taken care of

01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:09.960
it was already yeah we're done here so

01:32:09.960 --> 01:32:13.480
there's a lot to this

01:32:14.199 --> 01:32:17.679
and um so I'll just I'll just there's a

01:32:17.679 --> 01:32:19.480
lot to this and I'll just put them as

01:32:19.480 --> 01:32:21.199
bullets because it's not really a

01:32:21.199 --> 01:32:23.000
sequence

01:32:23.000 --> 01:32:25.800
so part of the problem here that I I

01:32:25.800 --> 01:32:28.040
heard in what you're saying is people

01:32:28.040 --> 01:32:31.040
don't show up as people they show up as

01:32:31.040 --> 01:32:36.159
rolls so one time my car got towed and

01:32:36.159 --> 01:32:38.880
the and the I got pulled over by the cop

01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:40.800
my car got towed and they took my

01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:42.719
license pled off because I forgot to

01:32:42.719 --> 01:32:44.119
have an emissions

01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:46.800
test so I said well let's just tow it to

01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:48.639
the emissions place and we'll get the

01:32:48.639 --> 01:32:51.480
emissions test so they did that and then

01:32:51.480 --> 01:32:52.199
the

01:32:52.199 --> 01:32:55.320
woman cop boss came out and she said no

01:32:55.320 --> 01:32:57.639
we're pulling your plates and I'm like

01:32:57.639 --> 01:32:59.400
they told me they would be happy to pull

01:32:59.400 --> 01:33:01.560
it into the emissions right now she's

01:33:01.560 --> 01:33:04.800
and literally she was a a a small petite

01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:08.239
woman who was not and I tried to talk to

01:33:08.239 --> 01:33:10.760
her like a person and there was no

01:33:10.760 --> 01:33:13.520
person there there was just the

01:33:13.520 --> 01:33:16.920
role and it's not always possible to

01:33:16.920 --> 01:33:19.280
talk to the person there was there was

01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:21.719
just it was like she could have been a

01:33:21.719 --> 01:33:24.520
robot or a zombie or something I it'

01:33:24.520 --> 01:33:27.800
been a long time here in rural

01:33:27.800 --> 01:33:30.199
Connecticut uh that you couldn't find a

01:33:30.199 --> 01:33:34.119
person people always are usually happy

01:33:34.119 --> 01:33:36.480
to like okay I'll let it slide whatever

01:33:36.480 --> 01:33:38.360
you know what I mean there was

01:33:38.360 --> 01:33:41.199
so if that's happening it's almost it's

01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:44.560
almost impossible it's extremely highly

01:33:44.560 --> 01:33:49.119
resistant uh a problem but if that's not

01:33:49.119 --> 01:33:52.000
happening and the person is kind of

01:33:52.000 --> 01:33:54.400
trying to resolve it and there's just so

01:33:54.400 --> 01:33:56.840
much

01:33:57.360 --> 01:34:00.719
tension well the notion of generative

01:34:00.719 --> 01:34:04.560
tension is that it feels like tension

01:34:04.560 --> 01:34:07.600
and what people think is that you can

01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:11.360
you can you can work with generative

01:34:11.360 --> 01:34:13.080
tension in a way it doesn't feel like

01:34:13.080 --> 01:34:15.880
tension that's not the point it has to

01:34:15.880 --> 01:34:19.239
be you know you can only get better at

01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:22.080
tennis if you play really hard games and

01:34:22.080 --> 01:34:24.880
knowing that doesn't make when you level

01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:29.159
up the game is harder so you have to you

01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:31.400
have to be able to cope with what your

01:34:31.400 --> 01:34:32.719
body is

01:34:32.719 --> 01:34:37.840
doing and and and un and and and not

01:34:37.840 --> 01:34:42.199
trying to make it not do that um and if

01:34:42.199 --> 01:34:45.080
you're in a group with highly aware

01:34:45.080 --> 01:34:47.639
people you're able to actually yell at

01:34:47.639 --> 01:34:49.880
them because you're actually not

01:34:49.880 --> 01:34:52.840
gatekeeping to needs credit this is what

01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:55.480
I did to him the tension the generative

01:34:55.480 --> 01:34:56.800
tension was

01:34:56.800 --> 01:35:01.960
there he knew it I knew it and I and and

01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:04.520
we were just in a a situation where I

01:35:04.520 --> 01:35:06.679
think people could understand this and

01:35:06.679 --> 01:35:08.840
you didn't have to gatekeep

01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:12.000
it in in a in an office context

01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:15.639
especially today that's not possible so

01:35:15.639 --> 01:35:18.639
you have to both allow the stuff to

01:35:18.639 --> 01:35:22.840
happen allow the person to see that this

01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:26.119
is happening without articulating it

01:35:26.119 --> 01:35:28.719
like you like I said to GFF me

01:35:28.719 --> 01:35:31.520
right so you got to allow it to happen

01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:33.440
and you've got to allow the person to

01:35:33.440 --> 01:35:37.440
see you're managing it for them for the

01:35:37.440 --> 01:35:39.679
situation that's different than just

01:35:39.679 --> 01:35:40.560
hiding

01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:43.080
it because I'm not doing anything I'm

01:35:43.080 --> 01:35:46.000
not saying anything to pretend you could

01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:50.480
say gee like this is really a lot for me

01:35:50.480 --> 01:35:52.600
to handle right now let me see if I can

01:35:52.600 --> 01:35:56.000
get through it right so that would be a

01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.639
that would you see the difference

01:35:57.639 --> 01:36:00.679
between that and then I don't I don't

01:36:00.679 --> 01:36:03.159
want to be a you know so so you have to

01:36:03.159 --> 01:36:05.800
make it public

01:36:05.800 --> 01:36:09.600
somehow you can't get keep it so these

01:36:09.600 --> 01:36:12.840
are very hard strategies to do because a

01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:15.440
lot of organis it's so toxic it's a

01:36:15.440 --> 01:36:21.880
pretend game anyways every so um so um

01:36:21.880 --> 01:36:25.199
and then you the the you can't take

01:36:25.199 --> 01:36:28.159
responsibility for the other it's not

01:36:28.159 --> 01:36:30.880
possible so you just try to learn

01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:33.639
something from it the situation yourself

01:36:33.639 --> 01:36:37.159
you try to say can I get more skillful

01:36:37.159 --> 01:36:40.719
means can I say gee this is really not

01:36:40.719 --> 01:36:43.920
gee oh this is really gee this is really

01:36:43.920 --> 01:36:47.440
hard for me so I got the anger there let

01:36:47.440 --> 01:36:50.480
me see if I can get through it so I

01:36:50.480 --> 01:36:53.600
didn't take care of of her or him I

01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:57.440
didn't hide that gee that you know the

01:36:57.440 --> 01:37:01.199
the the tone made something public I

01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:02.920
want to make it public and there's a lot

01:37:02.920 --> 01:37:05.360
of going on inside me and I'm

01:37:05.360 --> 01:37:08.239
trying to be clearheaded like clear

01:37:08.239 --> 01:37:10.320
headed so those are the kinds of things

01:37:10.320 --> 01:37:13.440
that are required but it's a lot it's

01:37:13.440 --> 01:37:16.199
it's a lot like in business I went

01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:17.639
through that and then I became the

01:37:17.639 --> 01:37:18.800
president of the company and then I

01:37:18.800 --> 01:37:20.080
didn't have to do any of that anymore

01:37:20.080 --> 01:37:21.520
because I had all the power and

01:37:21.520 --> 01:37:23.880
basically I stopped I stopped putting

01:37:23.880 --> 01:37:26.840
all that effort into it that I mean

01:37:26.840 --> 01:37:29.560
that's just the truth like people had to

01:37:29.560 --> 01:37:31.800
do that effort with me and we and we

01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:34.320
just I just got wanted to get business

01:37:34.320 --> 01:37:36.800
done so that's the other thing about the

01:37:36.800 --> 01:37:39.440
power threshold is you know it's hard to

01:37:39.440 --> 01:37:41.560
expect the person with power to do that

01:37:41.560 --> 01:37:42.520
much

01:37:42.520 --> 01:37:45.080
work on their

01:37:45.080 --> 01:37:48.119
side they don't have to they don't have

01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:50.199
enough generative

01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:52.159
tension

01:37:52.159 --> 01:37:54.520
and so it's very complex everything I

01:37:54.520 --> 01:37:56.320
just said is just the tip of the iceberg

01:37:56.320 --> 01:37:59.040
there's a 100 million more scenarios but

01:37:59.040 --> 01:38:01.360
these things you know you have to deal

01:38:01.360 --> 01:38:04.520
it with yourself but you want to make it

01:38:04.520 --> 01:38:06.880
public you got to deal it with a way so

01:38:06.880 --> 01:38:09.159
your brain doesn't go overwhelmed

01:38:09.159 --> 01:38:11.599
because your words need to be Crisp And

01:38:11.599 --> 01:38:15.639
like I said and then you can't take care

01:38:15.639 --> 01:38:18.280
of the other one you just you

01:38:18.280 --> 01:38:21.760
just cut that off your plate

01:38:21.760 --> 01:38:24.679
that's up to them and whether they're

01:38:24.679 --> 01:38:27.560
whether you think you have more capacity

01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:30.960
than them or not is is H is not part of

01:38:30.960 --> 01:38:33.400
the question you have to give them a

01:38:33.400 --> 01:38:36.920
chance to stand on their own two feet um

01:38:36.920 --> 01:38:38.679
because if you start caretaking and you

01:38:38.679 --> 01:38:40.280
got to take care of yourself at the same

01:38:40.280 --> 01:38:42.920
time it always makes it worse it's hard

01:38:42.920 --> 01:38:44.840
enough to get the kind of clarity I just

01:38:44.840 --> 01:38:49.199
said tried to model for you so uh and

01:38:49.199 --> 01:38:51.199
that's an an office situation where

01:38:51.199 --> 01:38:55.400
where the the shared context is you're

01:38:55.400 --> 01:38:57.639
all adults and you stand on your own two

01:38:57.639 --> 01:38:59.840
feet it's different if you were in the

01:38:59.840 --> 01:39:03.400
exact same situation with a

01:39:03.400 --> 01:39:06.119
student right because that's not the

01:39:06.119 --> 01:39:08.480
shared there's some of that but there's

01:39:08.480 --> 01:39:11.000
some caretaking that you have to do also

01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:13.480
if you're if you have a patient or a

01:39:13.480 --> 01:39:16.360
student um but even a business client

01:39:16.360 --> 01:39:19.280
there's no caretaking it's the explicit

01:39:19.280 --> 01:39:21.239
context is that you stand on your own on

01:39:21.239 --> 01:39:23.480
two

01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:28.159
feet but this is a very good

01:39:43.480 --> 01:39:45.639
question then every time each time it

01:39:45.639 --> 01:39:47.040
happens every time it happens you get

01:39:47.040 --> 01:39:49.599
better at it even if you fail because at

01:39:49.599 --> 01:39:52.080
least then you know that didn't work

01:39:52.080 --> 01:39:54.800
um but it it is this this is a good

01:39:54.800 --> 01:39:56.480
question because it's also in Collective

01:39:56.480 --> 01:39:59.480
Insight practice it's the idea of being

01:39:59.480 --> 01:40:03.520
clear using clear words um and not

01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:07.119
keeping your internal State private you

01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:10.320
know it just becomes Shadow anyways so

01:40:10.320 --> 01:40:13.280
but in but in in the office situation

01:40:13.280 --> 01:40:15.560
you have to make it public

01:40:15.560 --> 01:40:19.239
and frame it in a certain way it's just

01:40:19.239 --> 01:40:21.800
not possible for

01:40:21.800 --> 01:40:24.400
people to run around like that in an

01:40:24.400 --> 01:40:26.719
office

01:40:26.719 --> 01:40:28.960
situation and if they're hiding behind a

01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:31.800
ro as far as I can see sometimes there's

01:40:31.800 --> 01:40:34.119
nothing you can do it's

01:40:34.119 --> 01:40:37.639
just it's very

01:40:47.679 --> 01:40:51.000
weird not all it's rarely the case that

01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:55.199
the roles are that impervious though but

01:40:55.199 --> 01:40:56.960
every once in a while there's just no

01:40:56.960 --> 01:41:00.280
there there it's it's

01:41:00.679 --> 01:41:03.800
just the bureaucrat you

01:41:03.800 --> 01:41:06.199
know yeah it's amazing how quickly it

01:41:06.199 --> 01:41:08.560
goes up the chain though

01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:12.080
yeah that that's the funny part so that

01:41:12.080 --> 01:41:16.080
the boss does have to address it on some

01:41:16.080 --> 01:41:18.239
level

01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:21.320
yeah but I I do like what you had to say

01:41:21.320 --> 01:41:22.679
about

01:41:22.679 --> 01:41:26.000
the facing the

01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:29.280
situation with a kind of an awareness of

01:41:29.280 --> 01:41:33.040
the situation to make it

01:41:33.040 --> 01:41:36.760
obvious to basically be able to go into

01:41:36.760 --> 01:41:39.840
it and make it make the situation

01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:41.880
apparent yeah

01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:45.520
public yeah without having to call it

01:41:45.520 --> 01:41:47.719
out even just just through you through

01:41:47.719 --> 01:41:50.320
Consciousness itself like that that idea

01:41:50.320 --> 01:41:53.320
would be a higher level skill

01:41:53.320 --> 01:41:56.719
yeah it comes in we it forms like one

01:41:56.719 --> 01:41:59.400
time I was I had a very aggressive you

01:41:59.400 --> 01:42:03.400
know contractor boss and he he was also

01:42:03.400 --> 01:42:05.199
he was like Donald Trump you know he

01:42:05.199 --> 01:42:07.159
would

01:42:07.159 --> 01:42:10.280
just he' just go off and he' just sit

01:42:10.280 --> 01:42:12.560
you down and scream at you and one time

01:42:12.560 --> 01:42:14.159
he was really mad at me because I left

01:42:14.159 --> 01:42:17.400
work early cuz it was my f first horse I

01:42:17.400 --> 01:42:20.480
had that died so I I went home I came

01:42:20.480 --> 01:42:22.440
back the next day and he was screaming

01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:26.920
at me and you know and I'm sitting there

01:42:26.920 --> 01:42:29.840
balling like a baby letting him see this

01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:31.920
and yelling at him at the same time

01:42:31.920 --> 01:42:33.639
because that's was like I was just

01:42:33.639 --> 01:42:36.239
letting all that okay it last thing

01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:38.639
I wanted to like do is I'm gonna cry and

01:42:38.639 --> 01:42:41.679
I just let let that happen and told him

01:42:41.679 --> 01:42:44.400
like this is why I went home this is you

01:42:44.400 --> 01:42:46.679
know and this really clear thing and I

01:42:46.679 --> 01:42:49.639
was balling like a baby I mean

01:42:49.639 --> 01:42:51.719
it if I had

01:42:51.719 --> 01:42:53.960
if I had still had the ability to be

01:42:53.960 --> 01:42:57.080
embarrassed I mean and that's like I had

01:42:57.080 --> 01:42:58.800
lost the ability to be embarrassed or

01:42:58.800 --> 01:43:02.199
ashamed a long time ago so um it can it

01:43:02.199 --> 01:43:07.400
can get quite funny actually in some

01:43:07.400 --> 01:43:11.199
weird sitcom

01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:18.360
way I'd like to talk about generative

01:43:18.360 --> 01:43:21.730
tension in relationship

01:43:21.730 --> 01:43:24.679
[Music]

01:43:24.679 --> 01:43:28.599
um and I love that I haven't heard of

01:43:28.599 --> 01:43:29.560
that

01:43:29.560 --> 01:43:31.520
particular you

01:43:31.520 --> 01:43:34.800
know construct because there are times

01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:36.719
when you're in relationship well all the

01:43:36.719 --> 01:43:39.199
time in relationship the stakes are

01:43:39.199 --> 01:43:43.639
really high all the time we're always

01:43:43.639 --> 01:43:46.080
becoming something bigger and we're

01:43:46.080 --> 01:43:48.760
always finding the places where you know

01:43:48.760 --> 01:43:51.840
we're bound and but um

01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:55.080
but to be able to have the intensity

01:43:55.080 --> 01:44:01.239
of uh the stakes the intensity of um

01:44:01.239 --> 01:44:03.639
without caretaking all right there was

01:44:03.639 --> 01:44:08.199
another word you used um of the other um

01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:10.880
word you used yeah caretaking they gotta

01:44:10.880 --> 01:44:12.880
stand on their own two feet you have

01:44:12.880 --> 01:44:15.199
enough to take care of

01:44:15.199 --> 01:44:17.760
yourself but that's a certain stage in a

01:44:17.760 --> 01:44:19.400
relationship

01:44:19.400 --> 01:44:22.480
when when you know you're each self

01:44:22.480 --> 01:44:24.800
responsible and you're each responsible

01:44:24.800 --> 01:44:26.159
for staying

01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:30.840
upright and and you can let more energy

01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:33.280
course through the

01:44:33.280 --> 01:44:36.719
relationship and play with it and

01:44:36.719 --> 01:44:38.000
because it's all

01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:40.280
unknown you know where where are you

01:44:40.280 --> 01:44:42.560
heading and who I was in my last

01:44:42.560 --> 01:44:45.000
relationship compared to this

01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:49.119
relationship and what's

01:44:49.119 --> 01:44:53.679
um what are Shadows that uh I don't want

01:44:53.679 --> 01:44:57.360
to live bound on behind any longer so

01:44:57.360 --> 01:45:00.080
constantly bringing up shadows and

01:45:00.080 --> 01:45:03.239
always shatters the peace that we just

01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:05.400
got to and then there's just another

01:45:05.400 --> 01:45:09.480
level of you know oh this

01:45:09.480 --> 01:45:13.159
so um so that's one thing I want to

01:45:13.159 --> 01:45:16.119
say and then the other thing I want to

01:45:16.119 --> 01:45:21.440
say is um when you talked about Ingress

01:45:21.440 --> 01:45:25.040
in that it seems like that would be a

01:45:25.040 --> 01:45:31.159
real way of understanding a mature we is

01:45:31.159 --> 01:45:34.840
yes continually increasing the capacity

01:45:34.840 --> 01:45:37.760
to Ingress so that

01:45:37.760 --> 01:45:42.880
experiencing um not not uh oh I don't

01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:44.199
even know how I can talk about it in

01:45:44.199 --> 01:45:48.239
terms of projection but but um but being

01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.560
responsible for all that's

01:45:51.560 --> 01:45:55.920
present um and then uh in

01:45:55.920 --> 01:45:58.040
oneself and at the same time being

01:45:58.040 --> 01:46:00.840
inclusive of everything and everyone

01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:02.880
right so um I don't think I said that

01:46:02.880 --> 01:46:05.679
very articulate but I did feel a real a

01:46:05.679 --> 01:46:08.920
real relationship between ingressing and

01:46:08.920 --> 01:46:12.520
we yes there is um well and we'll be

01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:14.480
talking about that probably in those

01:46:14.480 --> 01:46:18.599
sessions um it's a it's it's yes you you

01:46:18.599 --> 01:46:21.239
you're it's it's become BEC obvious to

01:46:21.239 --> 01:46:24.880
you so um but I want to say something uh

01:46:24.880 --> 01:46:26.679
everything you said was beautiful and I

01:46:26.679 --> 01:46:28.760
want to say something for people who

01:46:28.760 --> 01:46:33.880
don't have the opportunity um to find a

01:46:33.880 --> 01:46:36.040
partner who's doing that kind of work

01:46:36.040 --> 01:46:39.360
also which I think you two are it is

01:46:39.360 --> 01:46:43.040
possible for one party to do the work

01:46:43.040 --> 01:46:45.599
and change the

01:46:45.599 --> 01:46:48.760
relationship it may actually be

01:46:48.760 --> 01:46:51.599
easier so this this is a problem people

01:46:51.599 --> 01:46:53.679
who are in the path have because they

01:46:53.679 --> 01:46:55.400
think they'll blame the other one

01:46:55.400 --> 01:46:57.159
because they're not doing the

01:46:57.159 --> 01:47:00.199
work and I just want to say this for

01:47:00.199 --> 01:47:03.199
anyone who doesn't have this wonderful

01:47:03.199 --> 01:47:08.840
relationship um and um I know for a fact

01:47:08.840 --> 01:47:11.080
that it doesn't need to be a two-way

01:47:11.080 --> 01:47:14.679
street along the path you get you can

01:47:14.679 --> 01:47:18.000
get yeah you can get somewhere May

01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:21.119
nobody gets all the way and and maybe

01:47:21.119 --> 01:47:23.080
some people it's easier or you it's

01:47:23.080 --> 01:47:25.599
these things are lucky or whatever but

01:47:25.599 --> 01:47:28.800
you don't have to have a a partner that

01:47:28.800 --> 01:47:31.280
knows what's explicitly happening at the

01:47:31.280 --> 01:47:34.000
end of the day you it's body's in space

01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:35.760
and you're standing on your own twoo

01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:38.119
feet and you know have triggers and the

01:47:38.119 --> 01:47:41.239
other person doesn't have any Shadow

01:47:41.239 --> 01:47:44.239
work to play with and it it it's no

01:47:44.239 --> 01:47:45.960
longer

01:47:45.960 --> 01:47:48.199
self-composed you're not like you can't

01:47:48.199 --> 01:47:50.360
Tango with it because one person's not d

01:47:50.360 --> 01:47:54.560
dancing you know so um I just want to

01:47:54.560 --> 01:47:58.119
say that cuz cuz yeah cuz you guys have

01:47:58.119 --> 01:48:01.239
a beautiful relationship and it's and

01:48:01.239 --> 01:48:04.199
and it's it's rare and extraordinary to

01:48:04.199 --> 01:48:08.679
see and I don't want people to feel um

01:48:08.679 --> 01:48:12.480
uh despair because that's not the their

01:48:12.480 --> 01:48:16.119
situation and it's and yeah I just want

01:48:16.119 --> 01:48:19.239
to Second what uh Sanders said about no

01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:22.960
Ledger and I I want to say that with my

01:48:22.960 --> 01:48:24.520
husband

01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:27.000
um you know I'd bring something up and

01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:29.920
he said You Wanna Make a

01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:33.920
list so explicit right he had a whole

01:48:33.920 --> 01:48:36.360
other perspective and I had to respect

01:48:36.360 --> 01:48:38.400
the fact that while I thought I was

01:48:38.400 --> 01:48:41.520
really getting a a handle on stuff I

01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:44.760
didn't know what he knew and I didn't

01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:46.920
process what he had processed and so

01:48:46.920 --> 01:48:49.520
there has to be some real humility in

01:48:49.520 --> 01:48:52.280
that too yeah it may show up very

01:48:52.280 --> 01:48:53.350
differently

01:48:53.350 --> 01:48:54.880
[Music]

01:48:54.880 --> 01:48:57.520
um I want to double click

01:48:57.520 --> 01:49:00.119
something and thanks for what you said

01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:02.719
about yeah I just want to say thing for

01:49:02.719 --> 01:49:05.000
most people it's neither you're on the

01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:07.639
same page or it's so bad only one most

01:49:07.639 --> 01:49:09.560
people it's asynchronous sometimes

01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:10.880
you're doing the work and the other

01:49:10.880 --> 01:49:13.360
person and then it goes life situation

01:49:13.360 --> 01:49:15.280
changes and so anyways but go ahead

01:49:15.280 --> 01:49:18.400
David yeah well it's about that

01:49:18.400 --> 01:49:23.280
work and I think leads into next year as

01:49:23.280 --> 01:49:26.440
well and the double click I want to do

01:49:26.440 --> 01:49:29.840
is a felter word you

01:49:29.840 --> 01:49:32.840
used

01:49:36.080 --> 01:49:42.719
Cris how simple and understandable was

01:49:42.800 --> 01:49:45.400
that you know it's an acronym right do

01:49:45.400 --> 01:49:47.000
you know what it stands

01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:50.199
for oh that I remember something no I

01:49:50.199 --> 01:49:53.480
can't remember well it means crisp and

01:49:53.480 --> 01:49:56.119
it means continually regenerating its

01:49:56.119 --> 01:49:59.480
own starting position every position's a

01:49:59.480 --> 01:50:00.679
starting

01:50:00.679 --> 01:50:03.320
position so instead of thinking oh now

01:50:03.320 --> 01:50:05.280
we changed again it's just every

01:50:05.280 --> 01:50:07.400
position stays crisp continually

01:50:07.400 --> 01:50:10.400
regenerates its own starting

01:50:10.400 --> 01:50:14.599
position as an autonomous authentic

01:50:14.599 --> 01:50:19.040
partner if you're with somebody at

01:50:19.040 --> 01:50:23.360
work or at

01:50:26.440 --> 01:50:30.080
home so I I think the Precision that

01:50:30.080 --> 01:50:36.159
we're shooting for is

01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:40.480
available if we don't get L lazy in

01:50:40.480 --> 01:50:46.159
language and actually honor our

01:50:47.920 --> 01:50:52.119
caring yeah yeah yeah it's work I mean

01:50:52.119 --> 01:50:55.079
what we're doing here is

01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:14.800
work come for the music stay for the

01:51:18.960 --> 01:51:21.960
work

01:51:25.400 --> 01:51:30.800
five minutes your clock is off five five

01:51:37.079 --> 01:51:39.920
minutes okay my friends this is another

01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:43.800
very good recording um I'm would like to

01:51:43.800 --> 01:51:47.599
ask your permission to perhaps make this

01:51:47.599 --> 01:51:51.679
recording public as a preview for next

01:51:51.679 --> 01:51:54.320
year to try to drive some people I think

01:51:54.320 --> 01:51:58.000
it's been very wonderful uh playful

01:51:58.000 --> 01:52:01.040
intense got a lot of preview U people

01:52:01.040 --> 01:52:02.440
won't know what we're talking about but

01:52:02.440 --> 01:52:04.079
they'll get the hit that what we're

01:52:04.079 --> 01:52:08.040
doing is is cool um so if I could just

01:52:08.040 --> 01:52:09.960
have thumbs

01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:13.079
up anyone object to this

01:52:13.079 --> 01:52:17.400
marriage say now or ever hold your face

01:52:17.400 --> 01:52:20.159
I just want to say that I took a uh

01:52:20.159 --> 01:52:23.199
screenshot of Matt when he was right in

01:52:23.199 --> 01:52:25.639
the middle of his antlers and I was

01:52:25.639 --> 01:52:28.000
trying to get it on the chat and I

01:52:28.000 --> 01:52:30.760
failed I wished I had for this for your

01:52:30.760 --> 01:52:32.520
recording or maybe that would have been

01:52:32.520 --> 01:52:34.159
too irreverence oh if you could send it

01:52:34.159 --> 01:52:38.960
to me I can put it up next time for okay

01:52:39.840 --> 01:52:43.520
I'll it would be Wonder oh Kevin it

01:52:43.520 --> 01:52:46.280
would be wonderful to have some new

01:52:46.280 --> 01:52:49.360
bodies to reenchant with our life

01:52:49.360 --> 01:52:50.679
process

01:52:50.679 --> 01:52:53.639
so I'm all

01:52:53.679 --> 01:52:57.159
in Bonnie I have a request

01:52:57.159 --> 01:53:01.639
um you you said how before you you know

01:53:01.639 --> 01:53:04.040
ascended to your power position and you

01:53:04.040 --> 01:53:06.000
didn't have to deal with the the

01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:08.719
creative tension games at the B like you

01:53:08.719 --> 01:53:11.040
had the sufficient power I request that

01:53:11.040 --> 01:53:13.639
you become the queen of the world so you

01:53:13.639 --> 01:53:17.280
can make my my Pennsylvania car

01:53:17.280 --> 01:53:18.639
registration expires at the end of

01:53:18.639 --> 01:53:19.960
January and I have to register in

01:53:19.960 --> 01:53:22.520
Connecticut so I request that you become

01:53:22.520 --> 01:53:24.599
the queen of the world so we don't have

01:53:24.599 --> 01:53:27.599
to deal with obnoxious um car

01:53:27.599 --> 01:53:31.320
registration procedures and

01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:36.040
bureaucracy PA put it on the

01:53:36.040 --> 01:53:40.719
list Kevin have you thought this through

01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:45.800
thoroughly okay my friends enjoy your

01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:48.760
day thank you so

01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:50.599
much

01:53:50.599 --> 01:53:53.599
w



## Cohort 6

00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:11.840
okay prior to today I had

00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:16.560
never um been aware of

00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:21.880
that um what's going on here that um

00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:24.000
group band

00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:27.720
whatever um but I was looking for

00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:31.439
a piece of music that would encapsulate

00:00:31.439 --> 00:00:32.399
uh

00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.320
today's

00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:37.960
session and I was

00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:43.640
shocked yeah someone here

00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.039
uh

00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:47.680
was

00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:52.920
Shazam Shazam yeah I don't yeah yeah

00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:54.680
because you know you you can tell I've

00:00:54.680 --> 00:00:57.760
been trying to play up my musical thing

00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:01.840
to you to young people all time so okay

00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:07.040
so that's something very cool um I see a

00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:12.000
new person here an a an a maslo

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:16.479
ban has a guest um I can guess who this

00:01:16.479 --> 00:01:19.680
person is but whyn't you help us

00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:20.720
understand

00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:25.320
them yeah great so um my name is Julian

00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:28.560
I um I'm not sure how much my mom is

00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.439
exactly about me but um yeah very

00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.640
excited to be here to to get into this

00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:36.399
mod a little bit more and

00:01:36.399 --> 00:01:39.520
just so very excited for awesome we're

00:01:39.520 --> 00:01:42.479
gonna talk about the new human and and a

00:01:42.479 --> 00:01:46.280
lot of that has to do with us figuring

00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:50.479
under trying to understand with the Next

00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.680
Generation both what we can we can leave

00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.759
them with and what is latent in them

00:01:57.759 --> 00:02:01.840
what we we can't really see

00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:05.280
but we can kind of promote going forward

00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.080
you know um

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.640
so I like I'm really excited that you're

00:02:10.640 --> 00:02:12.560
here and

00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.879
welcome um what else we got

00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.800
here um Old Friends new friends so the

00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.160
way I want to start today I have I spent

00:02:23.160 --> 00:02:26.480
a lot of today

00:02:28.160 --> 00:02:32.200
like um really really immersed in what

00:02:32.200 --> 00:02:34.879
am I going to say in this last session

00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.840
this whole year we've been working

00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:39.720
on

00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:43.360
um and oh where does that say

00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.080
that

00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.080
that

00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:52.480
and I'm wondering if we could start with

00:02:52.480 --> 00:02:54.840
if people have

00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.640
had that experience also like what have

00:02:57.640 --> 00:02:59.879
we been doing all year blah blah blah

00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:01.680
what do I want for next year blah blah

00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:02.519
blah

00:03:02.519 --> 00:03:04.319
blah

00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:06.680
um and

00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:09.860
[Music]

00:03:14.040 --> 00:03:18.200
um yeah just uh just to present what

00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:21.959
maybe you have been thinking

00:03:21.959 --> 00:03:26.760
about this course this journey this

00:03:26.760 --> 00:03:32.280
year but not only like what what has

00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:37.120
been good but what are the UN

00:03:41.710 --> 00:03:44.849
[Music]

00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.439
unsolved what are the obligations we

00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:58.680
have

00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.040
to

00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:03.159
next

00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:06.879
year obligations it's not the best word

00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.120
but something like that like and I

00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.760
thought what we might do is um someone

00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:17.840
starts and then we do popcorn which The

00:04:17.840 --> 00:04:22.400
Prompt is kind of complex but

00:04:22.400 --> 00:04:27.479
um really like popcorn oh

00:04:27.479 --> 00:04:30.479
you what do we do this year what what do

00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:33.919
we need to do next

00:04:34.479 --> 00:04:36.240
year

00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:39.160
um not I guess it's not popcorn you

00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:41.320
someone starts and then you pick on

00:04:41.320 --> 00:04:44.680
somebody else because you look and you

00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.120
see that they are ready

00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.479
okay what do we achieve what is sing in

00:04:52.479 --> 00:04:56.919
you what lives in you and

00:04:56.919 --> 00:04:59.960
uh yeah what code do you want to crack

00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:00.880
next

00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:04.080
year Hot

00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:08.600
Potato I'll start uh and David's heard

00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.800
this already but about three weeks ago I

00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:14.600
realized that you know all my life I've

00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.400
been morning what the [ __ ] am I doing on

00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:17.919
this planet at least isn't it since I

00:05:17.919 --> 00:05:20.720
was 20 and about three weeks ago

00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:22.919
occurred to me that it is the entirety

00:05:22.919 --> 00:05:25.280
of my life is the reason that I'm here

00:05:25.280 --> 00:05:27.440
that's it it's all of it there's nothing

00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:30.479
specific I'm not here to do so

00:05:30.479 --> 00:05:34.039
and in that moment I realized that I am

00:05:34.039 --> 00:05:35.880
totally satisfied with the life that I

00:05:35.880 --> 00:05:38.080
have lived I mean it's as good as it

00:05:38.080 --> 00:05:41.120
gets for me so I'm not I'm not looking

00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.720
forward to anything in particular other

00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:46.039
than what's

00:05:46.039 --> 00:05:49.479
next I'll pick

00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:57.199
Marie you didn't do that did you

00:05:58.479 --> 00:06:02.919
Justin oh gosh

00:06:02.919 --> 00:06:05.080
um I don't know the first thing that

00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:07.919
popped into my mind

00:06:07.919 --> 00:06:10.680
was

00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.680
uh

00:06:15.280 --> 00:06:19.440
uh the terminology Precision

00:06:19.440 --> 00:06:22.199
terminology the language that we've

00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.400
learned this year

00:06:25.400 --> 00:06:28.400
and

00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:32.840
um gone back a bit

00:06:32.840 --> 00:06:36.960
over uh just sort of glancing through

00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:40.560
the um the substack has been there's

00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.120
some new tabs and things have been

00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.800
rearranged and so it was

00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.319
like where where's this where's that and

00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:51.440
so I was kind of hanging out in the

00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:54.440
process kind of going through

00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:58.400
and um it's always it's always fun to

00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:00.199
relive

00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:03.520
uh relive the journey in that way and

00:07:03.520 --> 00:07:05.440
the the

00:07:05.440 --> 00:07:08.440
surprises

00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.319
um I I I I love the

00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.319
satisfaction that you name Justin and I

00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.120
think I've been circling around

00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:25.759
possibly something similar and but also

00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:28.319
with a something that's

00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:29.919
also

00:07:29.919 --> 00:07:34.039
um kind of agitated and stirring in me

00:07:34.039 --> 00:07:36.720
that wants to

00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.800
also um

00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:42.199
just

00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.720
uh come forward and be a little more

00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.080
clear with uh

00:07:50.080 --> 00:07:55.840
focus and and part of that is um I

00:07:55.840 --> 00:07:58.919
think you know it's like it's like

00:07:58.919 --> 00:08:01.800
learning to play an instrument I I've

00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:03.960
always wished I could play an instrument

00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:06.520
I just don't have that I don't have that

00:08:06.520 --> 00:08:09.039
Gene

00:08:09.039 --> 00:08:12.800
um but I you know when you when you know

00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:16.240
it when you know the the instrument well

00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.360
enough you it it it like you can you can

00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.919
play it and I think

00:08:22.919 --> 00:08:26.599
that that's that's part of that that

00:08:26.599 --> 00:08:29.720
quickening that that sense of what wants

00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.159
to come forward it's just wanting to be

00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.919
able to play with a little more agility

00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.120
with what what we've been

00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.720
doing and Sam you nodded

00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:47.360
so you're

00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:52.560
next thanks Marie uh yeah playing with

00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:54.720
agility I just really resonated with

00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:55.400
that

00:08:55.400 --> 00:08:57.839
[Music]

00:08:57.839 --> 00:09:00.320
um what the focus of the session is just

00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.519
feel so resonant right now like

00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.160
individuation

00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:07.600
um but I think

00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.079
like feeling more deeply into what what

00:09:11.079 --> 00:09:12.920
that means or what that can mean I'm

00:09:12.920 --> 00:09:15.670
kind of on fire with it and there's

00:09:15.670 --> 00:09:17.920
[Music]

00:09:17.920 --> 00:09:21.279
um also resonating with kind of

00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.640
the I think deepening into living the

00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:28.120
kind of discourse that Bonnie's you know

00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.760
been concocting and the places where I

00:09:30.760 --> 00:09:33.800
resonate with it or I'm chewing on it uh

00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:35.600
I've been reading John Heron recently

00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.680
and he's talked about this s like this

00:09:38.680 --> 00:09:40.959
notion of kind of individuated maturity

00:09:40.959 --> 00:09:43.079
is the sense of kind of being able

00:09:43.079 --> 00:09:48.720
to uh surf the currents of uh feeling of

00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.760
affect that that swell up but in such a

00:09:50.760 --> 00:09:52.040
way that it doesn't get kind of

00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:54.600
channeled down these uh kind of

00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.160
constrained patterns but it's more

00:09:56.160 --> 00:10:00.120
available for um the kind of intimate

00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.640
participation with things and feeling

00:10:03.640 --> 00:10:05.240
the all the places where I'm like a well

00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:08.920
behaved school boy still

00:10:08.920 --> 00:10:12.040
um and wanting to loosen that but not do

00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:14.160
so in a way where I'm also just like a

00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:18.399
like a [ __ ] adolescent that's wanting

00:10:19.839 --> 00:10:23.160
to yeah just just Rebel for its own sake

00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:27.200
but be more available for participation

00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:30.440
um I I feel where the seeds of that are

00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.120
starting to be planted but

00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.800
um yeah I can sense that what I'm alive

00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:42.760
with is actually wanting to wanting to

00:10:42.760 --> 00:10:45.920
slow down and

00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:51.240
actually be be more agile with the the

00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:54.639
surges of life force uh that come

00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.720
forward and

00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:00.959
be hm

00:11:00.959 --> 00:11:02.760
yeah yeah it's it's an awkward place

00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:04.920
where I think we are kind of trying to

00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:07.279
step out of like exit modernity very

00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.320
early there's not a lot of places for it

00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:12.480
to land but um find the appropriate ways

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.600
to hold that tension my life so that's

00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.839
what I'm on fire with and kind of

00:11:17.839 --> 00:11:19.279
excited about

00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.399
it

00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:25.519
and yeah I'm I'm noticing feeling drawn

00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.480
toward Adriana so I'm going to pass the

00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.959
piece that dire

00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.880
I think you're

00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:45.440
muted you're mut sorry okay yes I

00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.760
clicked on sorry I clicked on something

00:11:47.760 --> 00:11:49.760
else and everybody left my screen and

00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:51.920
then I couldn't find anybody any anyway

00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:54.160
I'm having

00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:58.120
um I uh bear with me for a moment I was

00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:00.000
making little notes

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.440
so uh what I love thank you Sam for the

00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:04.079
invitation

00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:07.440
um so I love the fine graining so the

00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.000
the whole thing about the pop-up school

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.600
to F grain language like I really love

00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.800
that and um and the and the constraints

00:12:15.800 --> 00:12:18.320
bnny how do you call them again the

00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.760
necessary constraints or the there's the

00:12:20.760 --> 00:12:23.760
name I forget

00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:26.839
the um hard hard constraint hard

00:12:26.839 --> 00:12:28.680
constraints hard constraints that that

00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:32.199
was a massive thing for me and um

00:12:32.199 --> 00:12:33.360
there's another thing that's

00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.680
reverberating is the exclusion like the

00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:38.240
the bits that we need to actually

00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.800
exclude from RE from

00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:43.880
reality uh there was like a pivot in my

00:12:43.880 --> 00:12:48.079
mind that I was like ah yes so it feels

00:12:48.079 --> 00:12:50.839
really alive but I'm also I'm like with

00:12:50.839 --> 00:12:52.199
it and

00:12:52.199 --> 00:12:56.360
I'm I'm in the confusion of what to

00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.880
exclude and what to not so I'm I'm

00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:01.839
swimming in there I love when Justin was

00:13:01.839 --> 00:13:04.440
talking about being happy with your not

00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:07.040
you didn't say happy but being um

00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:09.120
fulfilled with your life or something

00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.800
how you worded it and I was thinking of

00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:14.160
Bonnie's when you said bunnie about the

00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:17.959
billiard bowl of causation and and that

00:13:17.959 --> 00:13:21.199
we're not that's not the way it is and

00:13:21.199 --> 00:13:23.079
and how our mind's thinking of that like

00:13:23.079 --> 00:13:25.360
as you said I'm not here to do anything

00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.680
and yet there's never a time there's

00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:29.440
never going to be a time where J is not

00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.160
here so therefore you are doing

00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:34.279
something and and causing the Ripple so

00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.560
I'm just being with I'm just being with

00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:38.839
the whole thing so it's just

00:13:38.839 --> 00:13:42.279
um that's all very alive for me and it's

00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:44.959
interpenetrating with my work and I I

00:13:44.959 --> 00:13:46.480
think if

00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.399
I if I'm gonna if there's something that

00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:51.759
I really would love to kind of like be

00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.440
able to because I know how I know how

00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.639
the pop-up School interpenetrates me and

00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.120
what I'm doing in the world a lot and

00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.440
how it shapes my thoughts and how it's

00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.920
it's um Shifting the direction through

00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:07.680
um with which I'm contemplating some

00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:09.839
like pickles like some some things that

00:14:09.839 --> 00:14:13.000
I'm engaging with however there is in

00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.920
this conversation about the new human I

00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:18.519
have to say that if I have a desire is

00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.199
for the next cheer is that and it is a

00:14:21.199 --> 00:14:22.720
little bit of a pickle because I think

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.959
that that's where maybe your language

00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:27.000
bonny and my language is different I

00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.199
don't think we see differently as much

00:14:29.199 --> 00:14:31.000
as it might seeming because of the

00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.000
language but it's like in my journey of

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.839
going all right the way that we have

00:14:36.839 --> 00:14:38.720
been seeing female bodies and male

00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.600
bodies is wrong is wrong is like in in

00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.440
in the systems in the world in the

00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:48.720
ripples in the whatever so to me to find

00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.079
graining that feels really important and

00:14:52.079 --> 00:14:54.560
I don't know in my own inquiry I don't

00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:56.279
know what to include and what to exclude

00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.320
and there's some bits that I'm clear

00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.000
because they haven't been included and

00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.320
it feels like it's causing a ripple

00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.759
that's more detrimental than beneficial

00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:08.920
but other bits I don't know so I noticed

00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:12.240
in my own writing in my own Discovery I

00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.079
sometimes get into this like

00:15:15.079 --> 00:15:17.800
um and yeah so that's something that I

00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:20.000
want to engage with a little bit

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.639
more precisely with the pop-up school I

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.000
don't know how because it feels part of

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.320
the new human so I'm like the new human

00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.720
is just not one body what's the new you

00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:32.560
know so I so how to um allow for the

00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:36.399
Precision and all of that so yeah um um

00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:40.519
and I'm gonna um invite Cheryl wait wait

00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.639
wait I just oh sorry sorry sorry yes so

00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.480
this is beautiful because because you

00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.440
had to

00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.480
reclaim the whole female cycle and stuff

00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.160
like that but

00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.920
then only you I don't know any anyone

00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:01.480
who does what you do you're at the

00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:05.519
you're at the edge of thinking in what

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:09.839
you do and then when you when you figure

00:16:09.839 --> 00:16:12.839
that out and then you say

00:16:12.839 --> 00:16:16.399
oh I'm GNA reclaim the masculine in the

00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.839
same way so you go you will go meta on

00:16:20.839 --> 00:16:23.319
what it was to reclaim the feminine and

00:16:23.319 --> 00:16:25.959
The Feminine cycle and stuff and then

00:16:25.959 --> 00:16:28.560
you have powerful patterns that are

00:16:28.560 --> 00:16:31.040
human not masculine and

00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:33.199
feminine and

00:16:33.199 --> 00:16:39.040
then it get gets reg regurgitated a as

00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:45.000
The Human Condition right so

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.639
so do you understand what I just said

00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.360
like right now you have to correct or

00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.440
you you you have to look at the left

00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:56.000
behind

00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.079
part and then you understand

00:16:59.079 --> 00:17:01.800
understand the meta principles and then

00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:07.039
you see oh those meta principles are in

00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.520
the masculine also and the conversation

00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:13.760
has to be at the level of the meta

00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:16.400
principles and I

00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:21.439
see Zero obstacle for you to get from

00:17:21.439 --> 00:17:26.760
here to there because like you're really

00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:30.440
like how much how much does life have to

00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.480
push against you and you just keep going

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.120
just keep going but I am thank you I

00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:39.640
appreciate I appreciate the recognition

00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:41.640
I don't know where that comes from but

00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.440
you just keep

00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:49.640
going that's what we all want to honor

00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.440
here that's and yeah that's beautiful so

00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:57.159
than you yes yes this

00:17:57.159 --> 00:18:00.240
individuation h it's a weird weird world

00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.480
word but young you know for him it was

00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.520
animus in the animus animus

00:18:07.520 --> 00:18:13.080
Anda this was one of the the choke

00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:18.520
point so if you yeah more understand

00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:21.559
the I can't even remember which

00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.480
ones one then you can like see the

00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.080
fundamental pattern is the other and

00:18:27.080 --> 00:18:30.559
that's your service to cross over right

00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.360
yeah excellent beautiful and who you who

00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:37.880
do you pick tlen see for a while happy

00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.520
to see

00:18:44.360 --> 00:18:47.280
you thank you

00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:51.480
Adriana I my heart started beating so

00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.440
fast as you were

00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.039
speaking actually

00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.480
especially when you spoke to the new

00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.000
human isn't only one

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:04.000
body it's like

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.919
this yeah it just felt so true was like

00:19:06.919 --> 00:19:10.280
an explosion of

00:19:10.280 --> 00:19:13.280
Truth

00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:19.200
and

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.360
I when I look

00:19:22.360 --> 00:19:26.960
into the potential of the new

00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.720
year

00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.600
it feels like

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.600
I'm it's it's interesting I there's this

00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:44.760
phrase that's coming up that's like when

00:19:44.760 --> 00:19:47.799
you're in the pocket when you're in the

00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.880
pocket and I there's

00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:55.480
something that's calling me into a kind

00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.840
of posture where

00:19:58.840 --> 00:20:02.840
I really I'm I'm resonating with like

00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:05.039
precision and

00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.039
Agility but I'm really

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.840
seeking I'm seeking a kind

00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:15.200
of yeah it's like this still

00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.799
point I'm really seeking a Still

00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.280
Point from which like the impulse can

00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:25.600
really

00:20:25.600 --> 00:20:28.200
unleash and yeah something that's been

00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.919
happening and I feel really I feel

00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:34.440
indebted in many ways to the pop-up

00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.159
School in this group and Bonnie and

00:20:37.159 --> 00:20:38.799
others as well

00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.280
like

00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:43.799
I I feel like I've been spending the

00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.559
last few years just

00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.360
clarifying and increasing and stretching

00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:53.200
my capacity to

00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.440
just hold my wanting and just like the

00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:59.880
enormity of my

00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.240
desire and then to also be able to

00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.880
clarify it in such a way that I know how

00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:06.880
to

00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.720
be precise with it and I know how

00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.679
to show up in such a way that I can

00:21:14.679 --> 00:21:15.290
really

00:21:15.290 --> 00:21:18.349
[Music]

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.919
really embody embody my desire in the

00:21:23.919 --> 00:21:26.919
world

00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.039
so

00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.080
ah yeah I don't I'm just excited to I'm

00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:39.120
excited to dance next

00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.559
year and I'll pass it

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:46.440
to I want to pass it to

00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.480
Aaron unmute oh I unmuted myself Cheryl

00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.679
we're in the same city right now I'm in

00:21:57.679 --> 00:22:00.600
Toronto I'm training so we can dance

00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:03.559
tomorrow

00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.000
um uh oh it's really nice to be here I

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.840
haven't been to a popup live in a few

00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:13.480
months

00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:17.320
um and my heart's beating fast and I'm

00:22:17.320 --> 00:22:19.400
here I'm in Toronto right now to train

00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.200
martial arts with these wild Russians

00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.799
and as you were speaking Cheryl talking

00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.240
about like Still Point and the anchor

00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.799
and moving and blend like it's all in

00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.279
it's actually all in the body which is

00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:35.320
why I love being in the

00:22:35.320 --> 00:22:37.559
body and I guess one of the reasons I'm

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.440
in the popup school is so I can [ __ ]

00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.799
talk to people like and and

00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:48.679
convince or stop let's just play can we

00:22:48.679 --> 00:22:51.919
wrestle can we jump around so I'm trying

00:22:51.919 --> 00:22:56.960
to come up with a language to kind of um

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.880
validate an

00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.919
innate experience

00:23:02.919 --> 00:23:06.679
of heartbeating hands that open and

00:23:06.679 --> 00:23:09.679
closed

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.320
um right now I don't know why this is

00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:16.039
coming to mind but um there's this poem

00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:19.400
by William saaff called the way it

00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.440
is and it goes like this there's a

00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.360
thread you follow it goes among things

00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:28.880
that change but it doesn't change

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.159
people wonder about what you're pursuing

00:23:31.159 --> 00:23:33.480
you have to explain about the thread but

00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.960
it's hard for others to

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.960
see while you hold it you can't get lost

00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:42.919
tragedies happen people get hurt or die

00:23:42.919 --> 00:23:46.120
and you suffer and get old nothing you

00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:47.679
do can stop times

00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:51.960
unfolding you don't ever let go of the

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.960
bread

00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.120
so what I'm here for is bread I'm trying

00:23:58.120 --> 00:24:01.799
to like de into the thread for next year

00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.279
I hope I get smarter and learn how to

00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:07.840
speak even better um you get more

00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:10.400
precise with my language distinctions I

00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.200
make

00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.559
um and kind of also develop the courage

00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:16.400
to kind

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.400
of courage and yeah the courage to put

00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.799
put myself out there in the world a

00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.880
little bit more so I can um play with

00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.120
more people body to

00:24:26.120 --> 00:24:29.240
body um

00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.120
thanks for calling on me

00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:36.480
Cheryl uh I would like to call

00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.559
[Music]

00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:46.840
on

00:24:46.840 --> 00:24:49.640
well I don't know what the question

00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:51.880
is and I certainly don't know what the

00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:53.360
answer

00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:56.760
is but other than

00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:00.039
that uh I've

00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.960
been it's interesting it's just last

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.600
week that you used the word explained

00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:09.440
ingression and that is like not just

00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.640
given me a vocabulary it's

00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:13.700
actually

00:25:13.700 --> 00:25:16.779
[Music]

00:25:17.919 --> 00:25:22.760
uh enlivened something that has been not

00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:24.279
exactly

00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:29.960
dormant but um because it hasn't had a

00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.960
conscious understanding

00:25:34.399 --> 00:25:37.760
um maybe it's like there's water coming

00:25:37.760 --> 00:25:40.159
through but it's so little and now with

00:25:40.159 --> 00:25:43.080
the word all of a sudden it's like oof

00:25:43.080 --> 00:25:45.960
how much can I let through now that that

00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:50.200
just opened up so much for me

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:53.679
um and

00:25:54.520 --> 00:25:58.320
uh then I oh I forgot else what I was

00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:03.159
going to say but um the

00:26:03.159 --> 00:26:05.240
embodiment

00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.720
ingression feels like it's

00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:13.120
about taking all of what's there into

00:26:13.120 --> 00:26:17.000
all of what's here and it's so

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:22.039
nonverbal um and yet in order

00:26:24.399 --> 00:26:29.880
to uh to do it there has to be a

00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.600
awareness and a participation that's

00:26:32.600 --> 00:26:36.000
what it feels like and

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:42.520
um and it feels like that is what's

00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:46.600
required I live I you know we're all

00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:48.520
living in the world right now it's so

00:26:48.520 --> 00:26:52.559
depressing and so horrible what how who

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.360
do we need to be how can we possibly

00:26:54.360 --> 00:26:57.240
make a difference and I keep feeling the

00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:01.039
only only way to make a

00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.080
difference

00:27:03.080 --> 00:27:04.130
is

00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:06.480
[Music]

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:13.000
um by becoming so new that what's old

00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:17.120
can't can't um be constructed anymore

00:27:17.120 --> 00:27:19.399
it's just it just Falls

00:27:19.399 --> 00:27:23.640
away so and then another thing that I'm

00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.880
struggling with I mean I am older and

00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.279
I'm I I don't lose my memory for things

00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.279
like that are where are my keys but but

00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.039
everything that matters like the

00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.520
conversations I don't hold on to them

00:27:39.520 --> 00:27:41.559
but I don't think it's really

00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.240
because I'm losing my memory I think

00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.360
it's more that um my my the the place

00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:53.039
where I'm listening and thinking is a

00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.120
different place and it's not in a left

00:27:56.120 --> 00:27:58.480
brain cognitive place so I can't pull it

00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:03.240
back up um and uh so I don't know why I

00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.159
wanted to say that uh except that the

00:28:06.159 --> 00:28:09.000
more I move into the

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:10.840
new

00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:14.360
uh I can articulate in the moment but

00:28:14.360 --> 00:28:16.360
then I can't tell you what I said maybe

00:28:16.360 --> 00:28:19.159
I don't know um is there anything else I

00:28:19.159 --> 00:28:21.760
want to say I'm so excited by the letter

00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:25.679
that Sam sent um with your with the

00:28:25.679 --> 00:28:28.279
articles that you wrote Bonnie was so

00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.720
excited by them yesterday I read one and

00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.519
a half and I had

00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:35.240
to

00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:39.360
um go work on a jigsaw puzzle for 24

00:28:39.360 --> 00:28:42.279
hours straight it's like I had to I had

00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.640
to do nothing so because because it was

00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:48.240
like

00:28:48.919 --> 00:28:52.080
wo I don't know if that's actually true

00:28:52.080 --> 00:28:55.159
anyways I'm really excited by that so

00:28:55.159 --> 00:28:58.519
that's it I'm CH I'm choosing Reay and I

00:28:58.519 --> 00:28:59.840
had to look up your name because I

00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:02.480
forgetted

00:29:08.159 --> 00:29:10.559
it thanks

00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:14.679
Phoebe yeah um when I came on today I

00:29:14.679 --> 00:29:16.360
looked at all of

00:29:16.360 --> 00:29:20.799
you and realized how happy I am to see

00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.000
you today and people that I haven't seen

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.440
for a while Cheryl and Sam and Aaron

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.279
really good to see all of

00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.080
you so what I'm hearing um resonate a

00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:37.360
lot of it really resonates and what what

00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:39.640
I'm drawn

00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:44.039
to is the some of you mentioned um

00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:48.039
precision and how how important it is

00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.679
and seems that how I'm

00:29:52.679 --> 00:29:55.000
considering how I'm

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.919
understanding what I'm learning in a

00:29:57.919 --> 00:29:59.880
precise

00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:04.440
way um and there's something

00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.279
about this

00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.360
work it a lot of it feels psychoactive

00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:11.320
but in a way where I can't really grasp

00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:14.279
it there's just the kind of trust

00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:18.640
in um how I relate to it in that

00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.640
way and I've learned a lot

00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.840
about just leaning into that trust and

00:30:24.840 --> 00:30:27.080
not needing it to be more cognitive than

00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:31.360
it than it is not needing it to um be in

00:30:31.360 --> 00:30:34.200
a sense more precise than it is in that

00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.240
moment and yet I also realize that

00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.399
that's made me

00:30:38.399 --> 00:30:44.279
lazy um and lazy in that um there's

00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.840
something to be said for kind of leaning

00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:50.519
into something with the right amount of

00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.480
tension and I don't think I've been

00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:54.559
leaning into it with the right amount of

00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.120
tension I think been leaning into it

00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:00.159
with with a tension that somehow I've

00:31:00.159 --> 00:31:04.000
grown to understand and so the feedback

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:05.639
loop

00:31:05.639 --> 00:31:09.760
um it needs to be more porous I don't

00:31:09.760 --> 00:31:12.799
know how else to say it for me it needs

00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:16.679
to be more

00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.840
um yeah it has to have more Precision to

00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:20.600
it

00:31:20.600 --> 00:31:23.399
somehow um and I'm looking for I'm on

00:31:23.399 --> 00:31:27.679
sabatical I'm starting yesterday um so

00:31:27.679 --> 00:31:29.399
I'm looking forward to

00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:32.279
spending um more time with the material

00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:35.919
in ways that can allow that Precision to

00:31:35.919 --> 00:31:41.159
kind of mature a bit

00:31:41.600 --> 00:31:44.600
Yeah

00:31:55.639 --> 00:31:58.480
David well let's see seem I feel an

00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.080
opportunity there

00:32:01.080 --> 00:32:03.639
Ray maturing with

00:32:03.639 --> 00:32:06.480
you so just

00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.159
saying

00:32:09.159 --> 00:32:12.440
um what's

00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:16.000
unsolved what are the

00:32:17.159 --> 00:32:19.440
obligations so I'm not really sure

00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.760
what's

00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.080
solved from the last

00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:29.080
year

00:32:29.399 --> 00:32:33.159
so I have tension

00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:37.279
about what solved and what's not

00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.399
so what came up for

00:32:40.399 --> 00:32:42.480
me is

00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:47.399
refinement specifically refinement of

00:32:47.399 --> 00:32:51.600
language and the question I have

00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:56.039
is is this a shared

00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:59.039
project

00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:09.120
yesterday I told somebody I really

00:33:09.120 --> 00:33:12.480
like being

00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:18.200
alone and I really love having a guest

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.159
here so what's the asking that I'm

00:33:27.159 --> 00:33:28.200
sitting

00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.880
in Justin wants to know what it's all

00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.279
about what's the asking that I'm sitting

00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.960
in and how can I be a

00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.080
function of that

00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:45.919
asking in this shared

00:33:46.159 --> 00:33:49.120
project I love having a guest here so I

00:33:49.120 --> 00:33:53.159
W to play with you

00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.960
all

00:34:03.840 --> 00:34:08.960
and I I actually want to uh

00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:10.800
find my

00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.800
new

00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:19.560
obligation the next

00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.119
obligation and find the

00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.200
words so that I can remind myself that

00:34:26.200 --> 00:34:27.639
obligation

00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.079
every

00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:38.800
day

00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:49.440
julan was it me Bonnie H David was it me

00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.079
you're asking no who are you talking I

00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:56.919
thought it was Anna but Julian yeah you

00:34:56.919 --> 00:34:58.440
you go

00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.880
Jules yeah thank you for the uh for the

00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.119
invite to to speak

00:35:08.040 --> 00:35:12.119
David I think even hearing a lot of the

00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.640
things that have been

00:35:13.640 --> 00:35:17.119
said I think a lot of it I do resonate

00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:18.040
with

00:35:18.040 --> 00:35:20.640
myself a lot of it I'm

00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:23.880
still reflecting on and trying to fully

00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.000
fully grasp so

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.440
uh do bear with me with that

00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.040
but yeah

00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:40.359
um reflection on this year and next

00:35:42.520 --> 00:35:46.480
year I was away from uh my parents for

00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.760
quite a quite a long time actually so I

00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.119
feel

00:35:53.520 --> 00:35:58.800
like coming back a little bit more as uh

00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:02.720
as like a a full grown adult I've kind

00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:04.920
of left my Childer side behind a little

00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.160
bit more so I think I want to explore

00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.240
that a little bit

00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:13.240
more

00:36:22.359 --> 00:36:25.720
um just come here I guess just come

00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.720
to

00:36:30.319 --> 00:36:31.720
coming to be more connected with

00:36:31.720 --> 00:36:34.480
everything around me so for next year I

00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.640
think just being

00:36:41.240 --> 00:36:44.440
more being more help also Mom has

00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:47.359
mentioned to me in

00:36:47.640 --> 00:36:51.319
gr um I'm I'm I'm very excited for that

00:36:51.319 --> 00:36:52.480
and I think there's still a lot of

00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.680
things that need to come to me but I'm

00:36:54.680 --> 00:36:58.680
just going to let them come to me and

00:36:59.200 --> 00:37:02.680
uh kind of tick them along as I go I I

00:37:02.680 --> 00:37:05.720
normally do really enjoy that so um just

00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:07.079
whatever comes to me I'm going to let

00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.119
come to me and

00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.720
just allow myself to to follow that

00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.720
Journey if that makes sense I'm going to

00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:18.839
pass it

00:37:18.839 --> 00:37:21.240
on

00:37:21.240 --> 00:37:24.240
to

00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.599
sue

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.079
thank you Jules it's lovely to have you

00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:35.520
back in New Zealand it's really very

00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:37.079
very cool looking forward to seeing you

00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:41.079
shortly in person be fun most

00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.640
impressed and very impressed with how

00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:46.440
things are unfolding for

00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.599
you yeah I recall when the decision you

00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.640
were making about not going to

00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:55.520
University that was a big thing and yeah

00:37:55.520 --> 00:37:58.040
it was just amazing how you processed

00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:01.880
that and back yourself and got a job

00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:04.240
applied for a job overseas out and got

00:38:04.240 --> 00:38:06.200
it out of 200

00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:09.000
2,500 people you got the job I was like

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.079
wow so that was really cool and yeah and

00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:13.680
you've done lots of neat things when

00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:16.839
you've been away as well so your

00:38:16.839 --> 00:38:21.359
Marathon run was cool so very

00:38:21.359 --> 00:38:24.359
lovely

00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.119
um yeah I saw say hi to everyone and a

00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:31.560
big thank you to everyone here um

00:38:31.560 --> 00:38:33.880
especially the Brilliance and

00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.880
significantly brilliant what is

00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:39.880
happening and how you're being with all

00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.079
of this Bonnie and thank

00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.720
you um one of the things that's really

00:38:45.720 --> 00:38:48.839
resonated today and has resonated before

00:38:48.839 --> 00:38:53.240
today is that this talk of precision of

00:38:53.240 --> 00:38:55.560
language um that feels really

00:38:55.560 --> 00:38:58.520
significant for me

00:38:58.520 --> 00:39:02.240
and somehow that links for me to um Jan

00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:06.480
zinsky comment about um she's talking

00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.119
about philosophy as a love of clarity

00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:12.000
and the Precision of language sits

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.000
beautifully for me with that and also in

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.920
that in that space I I I feel that

00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.440
there's a lot more that I would like in

00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.160
the Precision of language to play with

00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:27.720
to look at to unpack so I'm thinking of

00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:30.680
latency that we dealt with

00:39:30.680 --> 00:39:35.800
and also gibbs's use of latency and so

00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:37.880
I'm curious about all of that and I'm

00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:41.200
curious about some of the things that I

00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:43.319
we didn't really touch in enough for me

00:39:43.319 --> 00:39:47.240
which was around the metaphysics really

00:39:47.240 --> 00:39:51.160
want to go there more and I

00:39:51.160 --> 00:39:53.920
also am looking

00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.440
for um Bonnie when you spoke of an

00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.680
origin story

00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:02.440
cosmology just want to be more into that

00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:05.280
than I was and have been so I think that

00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:09.800
all for me sits in this love of clarity

00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.280
love of precision of

00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.400
language and I would really love to pick

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.119
up on something you said Marie which

00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.359
really yeah I didn't I don't really know

00:40:19.359 --> 00:40:22.079
how to to word this and I I quite liked

00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.839
when you said I thought this was sort of

00:40:23.839 --> 00:40:26.680
helpful for me you said about um how did

00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:29.599
you put it um to know the

00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:31.560
instrument I think you're talking about

00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:35.079
knowing playing the instrument um and

00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.920
that still feels really new to me here

00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.520
in the space

00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:41.359
like and

00:40:41.359 --> 00:40:46.720
yet I I have a sense that for

00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:50.160
me the best that I've got or where I am

00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:53.440
or not quite sure how to unpack this but

00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:57.640
it seems that the new human

00:40:57.640 --> 00:41:02.280
if I think of going forward I do need in

00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:07.200
this context and where we are also to go

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:10.119
back but the going back is the going

00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.040
deeper it's to go deeper into the

00:41:13.040 --> 00:41:14.680
sensory

00:41:14.680 --> 00:41:17.240
motor I don't know what to call it it's

00:41:17.240 --> 00:41:21.040
it's the embodiment but it's action

00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:25.520
um yeah that that seems to be what it is

00:41:25.520 --> 00:41:27.440
to be able

00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.200
to play the instrument in a different

00:41:30.200 --> 00:41:32.640
way for me but I'm really not quite sure

00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:35.400
that I'm on to that but that's what I

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:37.839
want

00:41:37.839 --> 00:41:41.560
so really yeah I I'm really excited

00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:44.680
about next year and yeah so I've already

00:41:44.680 --> 00:41:47.040
mentioned some areas that I'm interested

00:41:47.040 --> 00:41:50.839
in and I'm also noticing something one

00:41:50.839 --> 00:41:54.160
last Quick comment um this curiosity

00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:56.760
thing that I've always had um

00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:58.280
and

00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:02.640
I what I'm always what is always Arisen

00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:05.520
but I'm but now I'm far more clear about

00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:07.599
this is

00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:11.319
that there's no real need

00:42:11.319 --> 00:42:14.280
to start thinking I don't have to start

00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.160
thinking about the question there is or

00:42:17.160 --> 00:42:20.599
what I'm curious about that all of it

00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:24.599
just it unfolds it

00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:26.760
requires a commitment

00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.319
it requires that I choose it requires

00:42:29.319 --> 00:42:31.599
that I act it requires that I'm

00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:33.960
Sovereign but at the same time I don't

00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.040
have to spend my time thinking and

00:42:36.040 --> 00:42:37.520
thinking and thinking because there's a

00:42:37.520 --> 00:42:39.960
whole synchronicity thing of it will

00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.480
arise and it and it just comes from all

00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.760
different places and I really love that

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.880
it's just everywhere just here it is it

00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.280
comes it's yes like sometimes I just

00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.240
turn on YouTube and there's the the

00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:56.240
exact podcast I need it's just perfectly

00:42:56.240 --> 00:42:58.960
perfect or I'm driving down the road and

00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.319
there's a sign on the road it's exactly

00:43:01.319 --> 00:43:04.680
what I need to read and so I really

00:43:04.680 --> 00:43:07.760
really love that and so yeah so that's

00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.599
just a little I'm more trusting I

00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:14.520
suppose of that and that would be one of

00:43:14.520 --> 00:43:17.720
the big learnings here is that most of

00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:20.720
the just about all our biomarkers that

00:43:20.720 --> 00:43:21.680
we

00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:24.280
explored it's not that they haven't

00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:27.160
Arisen it's not that I have haven't

00:43:27.160 --> 00:43:30.880
been aware of those it's just partly

00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.520
cultural and partly me and blah blah um

00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:37.599
just to trust it's the trusting of the

00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:39.720
intuition it's the trusting of what

00:43:39.720 --> 00:43:44.680
arises that um I really appreciate

00:43:44.680 --> 00:43:47.119
greatly what how that has unfolded for

00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:50.960
me here this year so yep I'm going back

00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.800
to Julian but except I'm going back to

00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.240
Anna thank you everyone been amazing it

00:43:57.240 --> 00:43:59.480
is

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.920
amazing thank you Sue I want to

00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.599
acknowledge you for being such a great

00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:08.839
sparring partner and friend in the last

00:44:08.839 --> 00:44:11.240
year because without you I probably

00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:13.079
wouldn't get half of what Bonnie is

00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.200
saying so you're kind of a translator

00:44:15.200 --> 00:44:18.000
for me thank you for that I want to

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.760
acknowledge Julian being here I'm so

00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:21.359
happy

00:44:21.359 --> 00:44:24.359
yay and I'm happy that he's just said

00:44:24.359 --> 00:44:26.680
yes I'm coming along and Bonnie I want

00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:30.160
to acknowledge like you as one of the

00:44:30.160 --> 00:44:34.440
greatest Minds that I know of of these

00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:39.359
times is it's just incredible how you

00:44:39.359 --> 00:44:41.839
what you're doing what you mean to me

00:44:41.839 --> 00:44:44.280
and us it's not me it's the whole

00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:48.599
communities um my family how I am within

00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:51.920
nature how I react and respond and how

00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:54.000
I'm chopping and collecting the

00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.079
wood and it has has become something

00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.319
very different than a couple of years

00:45:00.319 --> 00:45:02.880
ago it's a different way of chopping and

00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:05.640
collecting the wood and what I see with

00:45:05.640 --> 00:45:09.000
this new human it's like it's like when

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:10.680
I see someone else chopping and

00:45:10.680 --> 00:45:13.160
collecting the wood it's almost like I

00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:15.960
am doing it via their body and if I am

00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.839
doing it I can feel that

00:45:17.839 --> 00:45:21.359
they are doing it fire

00:45:21.359 --> 00:45:24.160
me there are still boundaries because

00:45:24.160 --> 00:45:26.359
there's this individuation of kn that

00:45:26.359 --> 00:45:29.559
the actions are yours but knowing that

00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:33.119
you can be that with everything that

00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:36.200
is and just have this at

00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:38.760
peeness and then there I think Cheryl

00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:41.040
said this devotion there's this devotion

00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:44.960
this this kind of love for knowing that

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.400
this is the only thing I want to do here

00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.559
with this kind of love and kosis or

00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.520
emptying out of

00:45:52.520 --> 00:45:55.680
everything I am here for I'll pour it

00:45:55.680 --> 00:45:58.640
out out and not in the sake of oh my God

00:45:58.640 --> 00:46:01.319
I'm giving myself away but but in the

00:46:01.319 --> 00:46:05.440
way of I'm here and I'm present and I

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:09.079
want to do this with everyone here

00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:11.079
because you're all amazing people it's

00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:13.640
just incredible in the last year and a

00:46:13.640 --> 00:46:17.240
half I got to know you all it's

00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.839
like mindblowing every time I see a

00:46:20.839 --> 00:46:22.319
little bit more and a little bit more

00:46:22.319 --> 00:46:24.839
and I thought I had no idea this person

00:46:24.839 --> 00:46:27.240
had this or that in them or was part of

00:46:27.240 --> 00:46:30.720
it and how can it not be but what kind

00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:33.839
of mware is running here that I need to

00:46:33.839 --> 00:46:36.640
let go of what kind of part of the onion

00:46:36.640 --> 00:46:39.640
wants to be peeled so and I'm just

00:46:39.640 --> 00:46:43.200
reflecting on that and vocabulary and I

00:46:43.200 --> 00:46:45.640
can go on for hours but this heart

00:46:45.640 --> 00:46:48.040
constraint what Adriana said and this

00:46:48.040 --> 00:46:51.280
fine graining and this male female thing

00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:54.599
that's just it's beautiful and I can go

00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:56.520
on but I don't have any any more words

00:46:56.520 --> 00:46:59.200
left it's like I think what Bonnie said

00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:02.000
or I don't know who said it originally

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.839
like everything that seems to be loved

00:47:04.839 --> 00:47:07.880
is loved and I want to bring that

00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:11.240
forward to next

00:47:12.680 --> 00:47:18.839
year and I want to give it to John L

00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:28.160
iPad right

00:47:28.319 --> 00:47:32.839
John I still remember that

00:47:32.839 --> 00:47:35.880
time that was funny when you called me

00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.040
John L like John L's

00:47:39.040 --> 00:47:45.240
iPad oh um I'm just uh rather Concrete

00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:49.119
in this but at the same time I'm not I

00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.160
love What

00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:54.720
U Bonnie's comp brought us into this

00:47:54.720 --> 00:47:57.240
individuation

00:47:57.240 --> 00:47:59.079
I'm trying to find us here and now I

00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:04.079
messed up but that's okay um what's

00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:09.000
rather concrete is I'm um I want to find

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.800
the height of my

00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:14.200
individuation in relationship it's like

00:48:14.200 --> 00:48:16.760
in one of the courses this month uh I

00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:19.280
learned that a lot of my biases are

00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:22.040
preventing me to be individuated and to

00:48:22.040 --> 00:48:26.359
be not being able to take real love

00:48:26.359 --> 00:48:31.280
into uh uh my life uh because of my own

00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:34.559
biases so I've learned so much through

00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.839
all of this processes so

00:48:37.839 --> 00:48:41.440
individuation is something that uh I

00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:43.240
need to find out more about it I'm so

00:48:43.240 --> 00:48:45.839
glad that was brought into the

00:48:45.839 --> 00:48:49.559
picture and uh and I am looking for the

00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:52.799
new human so what I'm doing is rather

00:48:52.799 --> 00:48:56.079
concrete and to find out if I'm excited

00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:58.440
if we go into lyric culture to find out

00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.200
about what that is and see if that's

00:49:00.200 --> 00:49:02.359
part of it see if that's part of the

00:49:02.359 --> 00:49:03.280
next

00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:05.760
stage or if it isn't maybe it is

00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:09.920
permaculture maybe it is uh uh whatever

00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:12.799
develops on that outside world and that

00:49:12.799 --> 00:49:16.720
is one of the reasons I'm coming

00:49:16.720 --> 00:49:21.599
to uh the Gathering in June to be

00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:23.280
with

00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.559
uh and to participate

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:28.880
but I have used for the past two to

00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:30.880
three years however long I've been in

00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:34.359
this uh with in the popup school and

00:49:34.359 --> 00:49:36.480
with all of you it's been so

00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.880
lifechanging and evolutionary for me

00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:43.240
it's allowed me to like I mentioned a

00:49:43.240 --> 00:49:47.079
long time ago I'm transitioning my

00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:48.640
business

00:49:48.640 --> 00:49:50.200
into

00:49:50.200 --> 00:49:51.880
um

00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:55.920
youth uh I didn't we in a sense sold the

00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.880
business but I'm still a independent

00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.440
operator within the business and I get

00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.040
to influence it and U but it's growing

00:50:03.040 --> 00:50:06.359
on without me which is very nice and I

00:50:06.359 --> 00:50:10.799
like that so that I can uh utilize

00:50:10.799 --> 00:50:14.240
everything we've learned here in these

00:50:14.240 --> 00:50:15.760
that I've learned here that we all have

00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:17.920
learned here in the last two and three

00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:20.200
years if not

00:50:20.200 --> 00:50:23.079
longer

00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:27.599
um because I I will become unnecessary

00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:31.520
here it'll take a few years so I'm going

00:50:31.520 --> 00:50:34.119
to be reaching out I'm of that age where

00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:37.000
you know in India you know you go into

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.880
the forest to uh seek

00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:42.280
Enlightenment because my householder

00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:46.520
days are over but uh instead I'm

00:50:46.520 --> 00:50:49.160
carrying on in the world and

00:50:49.160 --> 00:50:52.599
transitioning my work here in my neck of

00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.240
the woods and part of my work is my own

00:50:55.240 --> 00:50:58.240
home home too because it's an extension

00:50:58.240 --> 00:51:00.680
of of my

00:51:00.680 --> 00:51:04.480
business and

00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:08.079
uh is lyric culture the next

00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:11.000
stage what is the new

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:13.640
human and I've used these two to three

00:51:13.640 --> 00:51:16.839
years to transition my business into the

00:51:16.839 --> 00:51:22.960
Youth of 34 years old 31 years old a

00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:25.520
married couple and all the people that

00:51:25.520 --> 00:51:27.960
are surrounding them that's a family

00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.400
business I mean they've been with me

00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:33.240
some their parents were with me with uh

00:51:33.240 --> 00:51:36.280
me and my wife in h the late 90s so and

00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:39.480
they came in 201 10 and whatever so

00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.119
they've been an extension it's a family

00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:42.799
business more or less but it's not

00:51:42.799 --> 00:51:45.920
family but it is family because uh but

00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.079
what I'm getting at is see as I become

00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:50.640
Expendable I I'm going to go out into

00:51:50.640 --> 00:51:55.200
the world and find find uh the new Human

00:51:55.200 --> 00:51:57.559
by find if lyric culture is the next

00:51:57.559 --> 00:51:59.920
stage I'm excited to find out next year

00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:02.200
what that is and I'm excited to become

00:52:02.200 --> 00:52:06.119
more and more individuated so I can uh

00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:10.680
be more realistic in those in all those

00:52:10.680 --> 00:52:12.240
environments and to

00:52:12.240 --> 00:52:15.440
continue with what I've learned here to

00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:18.359
bring it into the world so thank you all

00:52:18.359 --> 00:52:21.680
very much for all of that for being okay

00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:24.640
my teachers all of you before you call

00:52:24.640 --> 00:52:27.680
in your next person which is what you're

00:52:27.680 --> 00:52:31.119
going to do I want to say

00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.880
that that like lyc culture is not like

00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:41.559
the next thing we should do or or ly

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:45.280
Culture by itself is like self-d

00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.640
disolving you know like we're not going

00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:50.319
to be like L lyc culture and these are

00:52:50.319 --> 00:52:54.400
the rules and blah blah blah blah so I I

00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.160
I think you know that that but I just

00:52:56.160 --> 00:52:59.160
wanted to put that in the in the video

00:52:59.160 --> 00:53:03.119
here like ly culture itself is like

00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:06.720
basically tags on music music does what

00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:09.799
it does and it goes and it dissolves and

00:53:09.799 --> 00:53:13.880
then it's not there and stuff so um the

00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.720
next big thing is not L lyric

00:53:16.720 --> 00:53:21.520
culture um it's it's something else but

00:53:21.520 --> 00:53:24.720
I I think you know that and uh you get

00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:27.680
to call and someone else now okay I

00:53:27.680 --> 00:53:30.799
think it might be uh a way for me to

00:53:30.799 --> 00:53:32.520
continue to develop

00:53:32.520 --> 00:53:35.079
myself with without my

00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:40.119
biases is but also I am looking for that

00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:41.520
and who knows where it's going to be

00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:44.400
maybe we are it I'm gonna I'll tell you

00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.839
why I'm going to call on Brian because

00:53:46.839 --> 00:53:50.400
he's the first one I met for the popup

00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:53.599
School in the Andrew Cohan Gathering was

00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:55.720
another man that was very articulate

00:53:55.720 --> 00:54:00.200
with us uh many months ago and the same

00:54:00.200 --> 00:54:02.680
Andrew Cohan Gathering and I can't

00:54:02.680 --> 00:54:04.680
remember that man's name but you all

00:54:04.680 --> 00:54:06.520
would know him if I did happen to

00:54:06.520 --> 00:54:09.599
remember that name but Brian you're my

00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:14.079
oldest participant so I'm calling on

00:54:15.680 --> 00:54:19.319
you all right thank you

00:54:19.319 --> 00:54:21.200
John

00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:23.640
um I don't I don't know if I have that

00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:27.960
much to say other than and you know

00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:32.400
sometime mid year this year

00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.200
something a deep restlessness that I

00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:39.160
think I've I've I've had all my life as

00:54:39.160 --> 00:54:42.599
far back as I can remember somehow

00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.240
settled you know and I don't know if it

00:54:45.240 --> 00:54:47.079
was

00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:51.040
was the the malware goes deeper than you

00:54:51.040 --> 00:54:54.799
think um Peace back in December of last

00:54:54.799 --> 00:54:55.599
year

00:54:55.599 --> 00:55:01.839
that that uh but but um once we hit the

00:55:01.839 --> 00:55:04.640
end of the the before we started the

00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:06.480
fall and I don't think it was

00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:09.119
necessarily the popup school but

00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.319
something just that restlessness kind of

00:55:12.319 --> 00:55:15.720
settled out and as we

00:55:15.720 --> 00:55:19.040
were approaching this fall I just it's

00:55:19.040 --> 00:55:20.160
it just

00:55:20.160 --> 00:55:22.920
deepened but now there's still there's

00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.680
this new restlessness that's

00:55:25.680 --> 00:55:28.720
but it just has a different feel to it I

00:55:28.720 --> 00:55:31.079
don't know other what else to say about

00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:35.119
it other than it

00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:38.039
um I'm still as hungry and Restless

00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:42.839
about about next year but uh you know

00:55:42.839 --> 00:55:48.200
something Uh something's something's uh

00:55:48.200 --> 00:55:52.440
settled and uh and it's certainly this

00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.760
this community and this and this work

00:55:54.760 --> 00:55:58.640
here here with Bonnie is certainly the

00:55:58.640 --> 00:56:01.200
the

00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:04.920
the at least the foundation for it so I

00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.839
uh so I

00:56:08.839 --> 00:56:14.359
um yeah I'm I'm I'm very very excited to

00:56:14.359 --> 00:56:16.480
see what comes in

00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:20.680
2024 and I'd like to pass it to

00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.920
Hol thanks

00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:28.079
Brian um yeah I think the part of the

00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:30.200
question I was sitting with was what

00:56:30.200 --> 00:56:31.400
what have we done what what are we

00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:32.640
building

00:56:32.640 --> 00:56:35.640
here and uh for me it's been like a kind

00:56:35.640 --> 00:56:39.640
of family um almost like an orchard or

00:56:39.640 --> 00:56:41.000
or garden of

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.559
sorts and

00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.559
um also just sensing that it also feels

00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:48.440
like we're we're building a song like

00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:50.799
each person is a kind of song

00:56:50.799 --> 00:56:54.440
line and uh it's it's a my hope that

00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:56.920
it's a song song that um we can pass

00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:58.319
down to Future

00:56:58.319 --> 00:57:00.480
generations and and that they'll get the

00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:03.680
same feeling I get which is um coming

00:57:03.680 --> 00:57:06.839
here there's there's a sense of of a

00:57:06.839 --> 00:57:08.319
song being played so I don't have to

00:57:08.319 --> 00:57:09.359
understand it I don't have to

00:57:09.359 --> 00:57:11.240
cognitively get it I just kind of have

00:57:11.240 --> 00:57:13.880
to listen to the tune and then keep

00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:15.799
humming it walk out walk out into the

00:57:15.799 --> 00:57:18.400
land with it and hum it and there's

00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:20.520
something that's always familiar about

00:57:20.520 --> 00:57:23.000
it like I hear the words and the ideas

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.079
and the different notes being played and

00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:27.280
it's recognizable but also

00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:30.240
new and um so I hope that we're passing

00:57:30.240 --> 00:57:32.319
down something that feels has that same

00:57:32.319 --> 00:57:37.039
similarity of feeling familiar but also

00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:39.520
fresh

00:57:39.520 --> 00:57:42.520
um

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.640
yeah what else let

00:57:46.640 --> 00:57:49.240
here yeah this is also you know I'm I

00:57:49.240 --> 00:57:52.680
was also reflecting on um this feeling

00:57:52.680 --> 00:57:55.799
like like a deep falling in love as well

00:57:55.799 --> 00:57:58.440
uh falling in love with ideas falling in

00:57:58.440 --> 00:57:59.760
love with the

00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.599
individuals um and you know falling in

00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:09.000
love is uh it sucks sometimes um it's uh

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:11.319
it can bring out a lot of blind spots

00:58:11.319 --> 00:58:14.359
and um you don't survive it you know and

00:58:14.359 --> 00:58:17.119
that's also been an experience of um a

00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:18.839
deep falling in love

00:58:18.839 --> 00:58:20.880
with with some of the ideas and the

00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:25.039
people here and then um a really

00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:26.480
confrontational grappling with the

00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:29.240
malware that's been a big big piece of

00:58:29.240 --> 00:58:30.400
the journey for

00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.480
me um but really thankful to have that

00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:36.039
ability to wrestle with that conflict

00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:38.480
because just like love it expands and it

00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:40.839
grows and then it emanates out and then

00:58:40.839 --> 00:58:44.480
the hope is that it's contagious and um

00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.559
the more you love and you can learn to

00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:49.920
love the more you can hold um so that's

00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.200
a really big gift and I hope that's my

00:58:52.200 --> 00:58:54.319
sense too of what the new human is is

00:58:54.319 --> 00:58:56.039
the Capac capacity to hold more love

00:58:56.039 --> 00:59:01.079
than forgiveness and um care for self

00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:02.920
other in

00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:04.640
World

00:59:04.640 --> 00:59:06.760
um and the question like I've been

00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:08.880
holding actually for most of this

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:13.000
course I don't feel I have resolved

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:17.200
um is around putting the body back into

00:59:17.200 --> 00:59:18.880
nature and what that looks like in a

00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:23.200
Cosmopolitan setting that looks like

00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:25.160
um more

00:59:25.160 --> 00:59:28.160
World

00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.359
um excited to sort of delve into that

00:59:31.359 --> 00:59:33.280
I'm also been

00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:35.599
um I've been like thinking a lot too

00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:37.559
about the way I move in the world and

00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:39.839
choices I make and how the I Ching is a

00:59:39.839 --> 00:59:41.680
big part of my life and how like three

00:59:41.680 --> 00:59:44.559
little coins hold so much power um and

00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:48.000
serve me so well in so many ways so also

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:49.760
been wondering about what what that's

00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:51.440
about kind of that synchronicity piece

00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:54.839
or that sense of um Divine will coming

00:59:54.839 --> 00:59:57.680
through through um kind of divination at

00:59:57.680 --> 01:00:00.720
times and and how strange that feels and

01:00:00.720 --> 01:00:03.000
trusting into that at times

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.119
so um yeah happy to be here and really

01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:08.480
glad for this

01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:11.880
invitation give us to sing our note and

01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:13.200
reflect

01:00:13.200 --> 01:00:16.559
on what this year has meant to

01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:23.559
us so I would love pass the the T to

01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:26.559
Katie

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.880
okay I'll tell you the truth I have a

01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:32.359
crush on Bonnie and I want to be a part

01:00:32.359 --> 01:00:34.480
of a

01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.960
cult and a

01:00:38.359 --> 01:00:41.920
story um I don't even know the prompt

01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:45.440
but I'm a little bit

01:00:48.319 --> 01:00:52.240
intuitive uh so two nights ago um a

01:00:52.240 --> 01:00:55.960
really really dear friend of mine died

01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:58.720
um pretty

01:00:59.240 --> 01:01:03.760
unexpectedly and I'm really [ __ ]

01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.760
heartbroken um and I was just at a

01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.039
solstice Gathering um in the

01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:12.400
neighborhood and I left early because I

01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:16.280
wanted to come and be a part of this

01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:18.160
final

01:01:18.160 --> 01:01:21.240
cohort this year

01:01:21.240 --> 01:01:25.000
and uh it's been like the deaths stacked

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.000
up for me this year starting in January

01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:31.720
uh which

01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:34.200
brings into

01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:37.200
relief um you know what what I choose to

01:01:37.200 --> 01:01:40.480
pay attention to and what's really

01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:42.640
important and the Clincher for me I mean

01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:45.000
popup school like for last two years

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.319
whatever two and a half years I've been

01:01:47.319 --> 01:01:50.799
on off on off you know pay the $40 pull

01:01:50.799 --> 01:01:53.160
it out you know like what is this what

01:01:53.160 --> 01:01:56.000
are we doing like what am I getting from

01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:58.839
it and it was

01:01:58.839 --> 01:02:01.279
your piece at the very beginning of the

01:02:01.279 --> 01:02:03.400
year you were referencing that Brian it

01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:05.559
was like why do we need a school like

01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:10.799
this and the malware runs deeper than we

01:02:10.799 --> 01:02:14.200
think um and it was like holy [ __ ]

01:02:14.200 --> 01:02:17.760
[ __ ] if we are really in an EP epical

01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:21.279
shift like fing outrageous like to be

01:02:21.279 --> 01:02:25.119
awake to that to be um

01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.400
be living and dying through this moment

01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:31.559
and um I guess I'm kind of addicted to

01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:33.359
the edge edgy

01:02:33.359 --> 01:02:36.359
spaces

01:02:37.160 --> 01:02:41.240
um so yeah whatever this new I don't

01:02:41.240 --> 01:02:43.079
know I don't have many words right now

01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:46.640
because I'm pretty like Blotto

01:02:46.640 --> 01:02:51.520
um uh in like grief and

01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:56.720
gratitude yeah it's it's like amazing to

01:02:56.720 --> 01:03:00.760
just to be human to be human right now

01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:04.279
and it's really weird like the whole

01:03:04.279 --> 01:03:06.640
simulation thing and like I know like I

01:03:06.640 --> 01:03:09.640
to feel so intimate with these Zoom

01:03:09.640 --> 01:03:13.200
whatever shape that is

01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:15.880
um and like how can you fall in love

01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:18.200
with the

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.240
simulation because it's more than

01:03:22.240 --> 01:03:26.279
that so

01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:38.000
I think the

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:40.799
um like the piece that my friend taught

01:03:40.799 --> 01:03:43.440
me especially these last few months is

01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:47.279
is um like choosing to to to suffer

01:03:47.279 --> 01:03:48.520
consciously it's like we don't really

01:03:48.520 --> 01:03:49.880
get a choice about suffering or not

01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:54.039
suffering but it's like how to walk that

01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:55.640
path

01:03:55.640 --> 01:04:00.799
um with you with kind of the [ __ ] of

01:04:00.799 --> 01:04:04.119
like how do I be such that I'm

01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:08.200
increasing the potential for the good

01:04:08.200 --> 01:04:11.359
um anyway I love you all that's why I'm

01:04:11.359 --> 01:04:16.480
here and so call on me call on you yeah

01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:19.680
okay I'm gonna call on

01:04:23.200 --> 01:04:26.200
Bonnie

01:04:35.160 --> 01:04:38.930
you know so last month I had people

01:04:38.930 --> 01:04:40.599
[Music]

01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:44.160
here and the day they were arriving my

01:04:44.160 --> 01:04:46.599
horse

01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:53.880
died and part of the reason why they

01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:56.839
were coming here is because I do horse

01:04:56.839 --> 01:05:00.880
workshops and there's some of you here

01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:04.960
can validate there there some

01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:09.319
transpersonal information that they give

01:05:09.319 --> 01:05:16.400
you she just wasn't a horse she was the

01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:26.079
horse

01:05:28.160 --> 01:05:29.220
and there was this

01:05:29.220 --> 01:05:30.359
[Music]

01:05:30.359 --> 01:05:33.920
weird experience I had between three

01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:38.880
things like wondering what so uh in the

01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.480
morning when she went out she was fine

01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:46.319
at 2 pm she was fine at 3 pm she was

01:05:46.319 --> 01:05:49.359
suffering 8 hours later she was

01:05:49.359 --> 01:05:52.559
dead despite the fact the vet came and

01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:58.119
we did the you know we hang bags and all

01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:02.720
the treatments and this and that

01:06:03.279 --> 01:06:05.079
so

01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:08.079
um what happens is a person gets into

01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:09.680
magical

01:06:09.680 --> 01:06:13.720
thinking like my

01:06:13.720 --> 01:06:17.039
hores there's a sign here

01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:19.760
like she's saying something something

01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:22.760
about no something about

01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:26.000
yes um

01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:38.520
um but was it what was interesting is

01:06:38.520 --> 01:06:42.839
that the people here retreated into uh

01:06:42.839 --> 01:06:44.200
retreated

01:06:44.200 --> 01:06:47.359
into Sal

01:06:47.359 --> 01:06:50.359
sistic

01:06:51.079 --> 01:06:53.319
thinking they became a little like

01:06:53.319 --> 01:06:56.000
closed

01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:14.799
group so when we go on to talk about

01:07:14.799 --> 01:07:16.200
lyrical

01:07:16.200 --> 01:07:19.359
culture our tendency is going to be to

01:07:19.359 --> 01:07:22.200
want to think oh lyric that's a nice

01:07:22.200 --> 01:07:24.680
word it's got has to do

01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:28.279
music but there's a lot of somber

01:07:28.279 --> 01:07:33.119
music and I think

01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:38.200
that I mean what I said in the

01:07:38.200 --> 01:07:40.839
debrief uh when when the people were

01:07:40.839 --> 01:07:45.079
here we we had a we had a a session I'm

01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:49.160
like is is death among Among Us death is

01:07:49.160 --> 01:07:52.640
Among Us you know and I think

01:07:52.640 --> 01:07:54.720
that l

01:07:54.720 --> 01:07:59.680
culture can be born from the most

01:07:59.680 --> 01:08:04.920
extreme awesome extreme

01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:08.640
pain that you can imagine like it's not

01:08:08.640 --> 01:08:13.240
like oh like happiness

01:08:15.319 --> 01:08:19.600
pain and

01:08:22.839 --> 01:08:25.839
um

01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:28.560
so a lot of what we're going to do next

01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:30.839
year is like lyric culture and it's like

01:08:30.839 --> 01:08:33.120
music and music can get intense and can

01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:35.520
break your heart and this and that we

01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:38.359
don't want it to

01:08:40.759 --> 01:08:45.000
be not acknowledging of how bad things

01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.679
are and not acknowledging of H what is

01:08:49.679 --> 01:08:52.799
possible at the same

01:08:52.799 --> 01:08:55.799
time

01:08:57.799 --> 01:08:59.640
and it's horrible to

01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:03.920
see the horse you love I camped with her

01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:10.120
I've been out on the in the middle

01:09:10.120 --> 01:09:13.319
of the Wilderness with her just me and

01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.500
her and the

01:09:14.500 --> 01:09:16.279
[Music]

01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:19.880
camping and then she just spins and

01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:22.679
Spins and Spins because the pain is so

01:09:22.679 --> 01:09:26.000
so horrible you know know like one of

01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:29.159
the one of the things that I want to say

01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:33.560
is like to

01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:36.279
access something

01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:39.159
extremely

01:09:39.159 --> 01:09:44.279
beautiful you have to

01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:50.279
face something really really

01:09:51.040 --> 01:09:55.040
painful they're not dichotomy

01:09:55.040 --> 01:09:58.520
they're portals into each

01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:02.640
other and one of the things that I

01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:05.560
wonder about next year is like how much

01:10:05.560 --> 01:10:08.080
of the intensity should I bring to this

01:10:08.080 --> 01:10:10.840
group like what do you hear

01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:15.679
for to feel that your little ideas are

01:10:15.679 --> 01:10:20.320
like working and like that's

01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:24.280
nice or to go there more deep

01:10:24.280 --> 01:10:27.520
I'm telling you i' been there 15 years

01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:31.000
ago going more deeply and that's the

01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:32.880
question for the popup

01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:36.560
school why are you

01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:46.080
here and the thing is it's not like a

01:10:46.080 --> 01:10:49.000
duality because like I'm telling you you

01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.520
go there in the pain more deeply and

01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:54.880
then something resurging

01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:57.760
and that's my question about next year

01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:01.440
like do did I do something that's like

01:11:01.440 --> 01:11:05.400
cool and

01:11:06.440 --> 01:11:11.400
easier easier you know I don't have an

01:11:11.400 --> 01:11:13.920
audience I don't have an audience that

01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:17.520
wants to go

01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:22.560
harder in this in this

01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:24.760
venue

01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:28.320
and I don't want to lose

01:11:42.280 --> 01:11:45.400
you snar pick a Melina what's the

01:11:45.400 --> 01:11:48.560
hardest thing you've ever done Melina I

01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:52.560
know you have one I know you have

01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:55.560
one

01:12:03.679 --> 01:12:05.050
I feel like it's

01:12:05.050 --> 01:12:07.159
[Music]

01:12:07.159 --> 01:12:11.280
more like once there's been one then

01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:13.719
more

01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:22.120
come um more come because you want them

01:12:22.120 --> 01:12:25.480
when you see them

01:12:28.199 --> 01:12:30.080
I immediately thought

01:12:30.080 --> 01:12:34.880
of this uh poem by Baldwin in which he

01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:38.920
describes all this you know piss filled

01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:44.800
streets and strewn needles in

01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:46.560
Harlem

01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.639
and all

01:12:48.639 --> 01:12:51.159
the

01:12:51.159 --> 01:12:54.679
Desolation and extreme

01:12:54.679 --> 01:12:57.480
creativities in every

01:12:57.480 --> 01:13:01.760
corner and then says what to do with

01:13:01.760 --> 01:13:05.679
this terrible

01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:10.120
beauty this terrible beauty I mean just

01:13:10.120 --> 01:13:13.920
putting those two words together

01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:17.360
just comes up for me so many

01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:19.840
times

01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:22.120
um

01:13:22.120 --> 01:13:27.440
and I spent the past seven days

01:13:27.440 --> 01:13:30.840
hosting bunch of young people that came

01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.440
from the warm data space that I didn't

01:13:34.440 --> 01:13:35.239
even

01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:38.960
know they were all coming but all of a

01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:41.679
sudden there something happened like

01:13:41.679 --> 01:13:43.320
this mini

01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:49.120
egregor and we were piling up people and

01:13:49.120 --> 01:13:52.840
you know couches and beds improvising so

01:13:52.840 --> 01:13:56.320
that it wouldn't cost them money to

01:13:56.320 --> 01:13:58.679
sleep because they weren't coming to

01:13:58.679 --> 01:14:01.880
sleep but then they did sleep a lot

01:14:01.880 --> 01:14:04.639
which was kind of

01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:08.080
cool I thought there was a sign

01:14:08.080 --> 01:14:11.000
everybody was super comfortable to just

01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:12.800
like all of a sudden fall

01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:15.840
asleep in the midst of whatever else was

01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:16.920
going

01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:21.080
on and I have to say

01:14:21.080 --> 01:14:25.840
Manita you popped up a of a

01:14:28.159 --> 01:14:32.400
lot and um we actually watched the first

01:14:32.400 --> 01:14:34.400
vi video of the

01:14:34.400 --> 01:14:37.040
convivial

01:14:37.040 --> 01:14:40.800
um I thought that was just such an

01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:42.920
incredible

01:14:42.920 --> 01:14:45.080
Cosmic

01:14:45.080 --> 01:14:49.719
artisanship of such difficult

01:14:49.719 --> 01:14:51.480
material

01:14:51.480 --> 01:14:54.520
to have experience

01:14:54.520 --> 01:14:57.360
and then not get l in the weeds because

01:14:57.360 --> 01:15:01.600
you hold the thread you know and even if

01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:06.440
we're kind of blinded by the evidence in

01:15:06.440 --> 01:15:10.239
front of us you hold the thread you know

01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:12.120
and I just don't know how the [ __ ] you

01:15:12.120 --> 01:15:15.960
do that but you know it's like is it the

01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:18.960
30 Years Learning with

01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.920
horses I don't know what your Alchemy um

01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:28.239
but I think when you speak about the one

01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:30.560
he

01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:34.159
um I sense that and then they they all

01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:35.560
left this

01:15:35.560 --> 01:15:37.840
morning and we have this thing in the

01:15:37.840 --> 01:15:40.080
village that whenever somebody leaves we

01:15:40.080 --> 01:15:44.000
all go to the same Cafe kind of outside

01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:46.080
whatever

01:15:46.080 --> 01:15:49.159
weather and it's funny

01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:51.960
because we just kind of randomly say a

01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:54.120
time and then people show up and you

01:15:54.120 --> 01:15:57.080
didn't even know they knew that somebody

01:15:57.080 --> 01:16:03.239
was leaving but it just happened

01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:09.159
and all of them without exception I had

01:16:09.159 --> 01:16:12.560
not seen in any other than their

01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:16.639
bioluminescence as I choose to call

01:16:17.199 --> 01:16:20.520
it and uh one of them I had recommended

01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:24.000
the Poetics of relation you know songs

01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.080
book and he asked me to write something

01:16:27.080 --> 01:16:29.440
on it and I wrote this

01:16:29.440 --> 01:16:33.159
thing um from BL show which is any

01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:36.800
authentic answer surrounds the question

01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:39.639
to leave it

01:16:40.040 --> 01:16:43.600
open and uh I had just finished writing

01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:46.679
that I was getting ready to

01:16:46.679 --> 01:16:49.239
leave and I just wanted to check the

01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:51.639
calendar for what

01:16:51.639 --> 01:16:57.159
time this was was you know this last

01:16:57.159 --> 01:17:00.159
session and I opened my

01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:02.560
computer and the only thing that was on

01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:05.880
the screen was a question

01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:12.159
mark literally I mean I know some of you

01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:15.320
who have Max probably have heard of this

01:17:15.320 --> 01:17:17.239
disastrous thing especially if you

01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:21.520
haven't backed up it means your hard

01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:25.920
drive is not connecting to the

01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:29.520
startup so it was like holy [ __ ] all

01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:33.840
these online people just offlined for

01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:35.440
five

01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:40.280
days and I'm looking for my next

01:17:40.280 --> 01:17:43.199
submarine

01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:47.560
fix which is this session you know fiber

01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:51.679
optics it's it's 12:22 where I am so I'm

01:17:51.679 --> 01:17:54.600
seeing you with fiber optics Under the

01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:57.159
Sea that's why I call it

01:17:57.159 --> 01:17:58.760
submarine

01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:02.360
um and using an old Mac that might turn

01:18:02.360 --> 01:18:07.520
off any time and and I'm just trembling

01:18:07.520 --> 01:18:12.719
I'm just shaking at the possibility the

01:18:12.719 --> 01:18:16.520
latency and wanting to feel the hard

01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:19.880
constraints so that that latency will

01:18:19.880 --> 01:18:24.239
come alive that's what I want

01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:27.840
I want this [ __ ] to

01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:30.520
come and

01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:34.960
I'm always super inspired by the

01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:38.560
Fukushima um

01:18:38.560 --> 01:18:42.040
veterans 60 plus years old The Who offer

01:18:42.040 --> 01:18:46.080
to go and work closest to the radiation

01:18:46.080 --> 01:18:48.760
so the people who are raising kids and

01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:51.199
had families didn't have to but they

01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:53.440
insisted on having a good cook and

01:18:53.440 --> 01:18:54.880
musicians because they were going to

01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:55.960
have

01:18:55.960 --> 01:18:59.159
fun and that's what I feel as Elder

01:18:59.159 --> 01:19:02.320
called to I want to stick my nose into

01:19:02.320 --> 01:19:05.719
that radiation into that

01:19:05.719 --> 01:19:10.080
malware and stop

01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:13.719
pretending stop

01:19:13.719 --> 01:19:17.520
pretending that life isn't anything

01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:21.600
other than harsh and exciting you

01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:27.679
know like um Mary Oliver's wild geese

01:19:27.679 --> 01:19:33.719
CL and I haven't quite felt part of your

01:19:33.719 --> 01:19:36.719
popup

01:19:38.520 --> 01:19:41.480
um in in in the sense that you've been

01:19:41.480 --> 01:19:43.159
together longer you see each other

01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:46.280
whatever and you sort of sense that but

01:19:46.280 --> 01:19:48.159
I've also felt

01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:50.080
extreme

01:19:50.080 --> 01:19:53.880
Hospitality you know as a

01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:56.440
you know kind of

01:19:56.440 --> 01:19:59.639
mad you

01:20:00.120 --> 01:20:02.320
know

01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:05.040
forager and I'm so grateful and I want

01:20:05.040 --> 01:20:09.280
to bring honestly more of these teach

01:20:09.280 --> 01:20:11.960
together I think Mark gaffy was right

01:20:11.960 --> 01:20:13.159
about that

01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.120
one I think that's what's called for and

01:20:16.120 --> 01:20:17.040
I think

01:20:17.040 --> 01:20:20.920
20124 is going to see a lot of that I

01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:23.360
hope and adre

01:20:23.360 --> 01:20:25.070
you came up

01:20:25.070 --> 01:20:29.159
[Laughter]

01:20:29.159 --> 01:20:34.120
too and I can even say it in

01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:40.719
Portuguese because of the

01:20:40.719 --> 01:20:46.040
moon so who do you pick next um I pick I

01:20:46.040 --> 01:20:51.199
pick I PE Aon thank

01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:56.600
you cool aon's aon's gone before yeah so

01:20:56.600 --> 01:20:59.800
Aon you get to pick next yeah I got to

01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:02.880
pick next um

01:21:02.880 --> 01:21:06.000
okay let me look at the list I want Matt

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:09.480
to go and I have to go too I gotta go

01:21:09.480 --> 01:21:12.719
fight a bunch of very

01:21:12.719 --> 01:21:15.200
very scary people

01:21:15.200 --> 01:21:17.080
[Laughter]

01:21:17.080 --> 01:21:20.080
um bye

01:21:20.080 --> 01:21:24.639
y'all see you next year

01:21:29.480 --> 01:21:31.719
say

01:21:31.719 --> 01:21:34.719
Okay

01:21:35.360 --> 01:21:38.960
um yeah thank you

01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:42.320
um hello

01:21:42.440 --> 01:21:44.280
people

01:21:44.280 --> 01:21:47.920
um really know what to

01:21:51.639 --> 01:21:55.400
say um I

01:22:02.120 --> 01:22:06.560
think I definitely um feel like that

01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:09.800
question you asked Bita why am I hear

01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:11.560
it's a really important one for each

01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:17.199
person to ask like I don't know feels

01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:19.440
very like

01:22:19.440 --> 01:22:21.560
real

01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.280
um

01:22:23.280 --> 01:22:27.000
sort of confrontational but in a good

01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:30.800
way like confronting yourself

01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.480
like

01:22:32.480 --> 01:22:35.600
um why am I here am I just wasting time

01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:36.560
am

01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:40.560
I am I avoiding something am I here

01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:43.840
because I really want to learn

01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:48.280
um I think that's a really good question

01:22:48.280 --> 01:22:52.000
um I know for me I felt I remember

01:22:52.000 --> 01:22:53.400
actually I think it was yesterday I was

01:22:53.400 --> 01:22:55.520
watching a video I'm doing watching the

01:22:55.520 --> 01:22:57.840
old ones

01:22:57.840 --> 01:23:01.120
and I think you were talking about some

01:23:01.120 --> 01:23:03.320
person in Psychology with someone else

01:23:03.320 --> 01:23:06.520
dobnik I think and I

01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:09.920
remember I had the feeling of like oh

01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:11.320
yeah I don't think I'm really interested

01:23:11.320 --> 01:23:16.120
in Psychology that much it's like oh

01:23:16.120 --> 01:23:18.880
yeah I don't yeah you know I have all

01:23:18.880 --> 01:23:22.920
these books and stuff and it's like yeah

01:23:22.920 --> 01:23:24.000
I don't

01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:26.600
know

01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:29.159
um and I think that goes into what I

01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:31.199
want for next year is

01:23:31.199 --> 01:23:33.760
like I think I just have to do more

01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:36.120
stuff and this just like a personal

01:23:36.120 --> 01:23:38.000
thing I

01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:39.600
know

01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:43.600
um I know I've said that for a long time

01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:46.120
and I keep coming back

01:23:46.120 --> 01:23:51.120
but whatever um yeah just like just

01:23:51.120 --> 01:23:53.679
doing stuff in the world and just yeah

01:23:53.679 --> 01:23:56.560
that's probably a big Focus for me and

01:23:56.560 --> 01:24:01.440
not you know not being

01:24:03.480 --> 01:24:06.440
too I don't I find change hard I guess

01:24:06.440 --> 01:24:07.880
because I find I say I've said this a

01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:11.800
million times and it's like it's it just

01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:14.880
I don't know maybe if I just

01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:17.920
keep trying to go that direction

01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:21.360
Something will something will break

01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:23.520
um

01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:27.400
yeah I don't know just I guess

01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:35.960
I'm yeah I don't know I I know like a

01:24:35.960 --> 01:24:37.280
lot of times I don't know half the

01:24:37.280 --> 01:24:39.560
things you guys are talking about

01:24:39.560 --> 01:24:45.000
it's I don't I don't know if I get it

01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:50.159
but I think I'm very I don't

01:24:50.159 --> 01:24:54.360
know but yeah just

01:24:54.440 --> 01:24:56.679
yeah I know I love you guys and like

01:24:56.679 --> 01:24:59.119
it's really great to see you everyone

01:24:59.119 --> 01:25:02.360
and yeah I don't know I don't think I

01:25:02.360 --> 01:25:04.920
have much to

01:25:05.320 --> 01:25:09.080
say okay here comes me chiming in you

01:25:09.080 --> 01:25:14.040
notice that the love happens whether you

01:25:14.040 --> 01:25:16.840
understand or in the same phase of

01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:20.400
everybody else

01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:23.320
so you know you know what I'm saying

01:25:23.320 --> 01:25:26.840
like like here's this person confused

01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:29.360
what what are we doing what's that like

01:25:29.360 --> 01:25:31.280
is there a common thing blah blah blah

01:25:31.280 --> 01:25:34.840
blah blah blah and yet if we're honest

01:25:34.840 --> 01:25:36.800
like you were just I don't know what

01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:38.679
we're doing I don't know what I'm doing

01:25:38.679 --> 01:25:42.000
blah blah blah blah and

01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:44.840
yet and yet the

01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:48.199
love seems to be happening that's an

01:25:48.199 --> 01:25:52.400
interesting question right like how many

01:25:52.400 --> 01:25:53.520
people love

01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:57.000
Matt because we're on

01:25:57.000 --> 01:25:59.800
like we don't even know how that happens

01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:02.400
like I don't know you're on like [ __ ]

01:26:02.400 --> 01:26:04.760
a screen I don't know

01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:07.600
you and so

01:26:07.600 --> 01:26:11.119
like there's a decoupling between

01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:13.600
understanding explanation being on the

01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:18.600
same page and this other thing that

01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:20.800
happens maybe we should be more

01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:22.760
interested in this other thing that

01:26:22.760 --> 01:26:25.000
happens but we can't do this other thing

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:26.800
that happens

01:26:26.800 --> 01:26:29.520
without you know like you can play

01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:31.679
tennis with people and then you really

01:26:31.679 --> 01:26:34.520
get to know them and you really love

01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:37.239
them but you you couldn't do that

01:26:37.239 --> 01:26:39.560
without playing tennis so there's like

01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:42.080
the

01:26:42.080 --> 01:26:45.239
the the action

01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:47.679
protocol that you engage with but what

01:26:47.679 --> 01:26:49.600
we're really interested in this other

01:26:49.600 --> 01:26:51.840
thing and you said it beautifully and

01:26:51.840 --> 01:26:54.320
honest honestly

01:26:54.320 --> 01:26:56.560
and

01:26:56.560 --> 01:26:59.800
um that's something to try to look at

01:26:59.800 --> 01:27:03.119
what is that because some people like

01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:05.560
they engage in a lot of external

01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:09.800
interactions and this other internal

01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:13.360
love or intimacy doesn't happen so how

01:27:13.360 --> 01:27:15.679
do we build intimacy we can't build

01:27:15.679 --> 01:27:19.400
intimacy directly we have to have

01:27:19.400 --> 01:27:23.360
interactions but what kinds of

01:27:23.360 --> 01:27:26.880
interactions build

01:27:27.199 --> 01:27:29.600
intimacy and this is an interesting

01:27:29.600 --> 01:27:31.880
question that does that make sense to

01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:34.480
you a little bit like like you're saying

01:27:34.480 --> 01:27:35.800
like I don't know what you guys are

01:27:35.800 --> 01:27:38.199
talking about half the time I'm just

01:27:38.199 --> 01:27:40.280
confused I don't know

01:27:40.280 --> 01:27:43.719
what and

01:27:44.199 --> 01:27:46.719
yet you're acknowledging something

01:27:46.719 --> 01:27:48.960
beautiful so thank you for that and you

01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:53.159
get to choose the next person

01:27:53.159 --> 01:27:54.719
believe it's

01:27:54.719 --> 01:27:58.760
Calin thank you guys I love you

01:28:00.639 --> 01:28:04.040
too thanks

01:28:06.440 --> 01:28:10.520
Matt so it was really great I mean I'm

01:28:10.520 --> 01:28:12.119
I'm the Newbie here so it's kind of

01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:14.960
appropriate that I'm

01:28:15.320 --> 01:28:17.880
last but it was great to hear all of the

01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:20.119
connections that everybody was speaking

01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:24.040
about it was just amazing

01:28:24.560 --> 01:28:29.520
and uh I can say uh I feel it and I felt

01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:33.400
it um every time I've been

01:28:34.159 --> 01:28:38.840
here um in uh just in the group and in

01:28:38.840 --> 01:28:43.280
the the the breakout rooms

01:28:44.639 --> 01:28:49.119
um but to get to the to the question why

01:28:49.119 --> 01:28:51.000
why am I here

01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:53.159
um

01:28:53.159 --> 01:28:56.719
I'm here I'm here because Holly invited

01:28:56.719 --> 01:29:00.080
me thank you

01:29:01.360 --> 01:29:06.000
Holly and um I'm here because uh I it's

01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:09.000
it's a following the

01:29:09.159 --> 01:29:11.840
signs um what you talked about the idea

01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:14.400
of synchronicity as being this following

01:29:14.400 --> 01:29:17.280
the signs or or or or or or you were you

01:29:17.280 --> 01:29:18.440
know it was you talk you were talking

01:29:18.440 --> 01:29:20.960
about archetypes and getting stuck in

01:29:20.960 --> 01:29:22.480
trying to look at an archet type and

01:29:22.480 --> 01:29:24.320
then the difference being looking for

01:29:24.320 --> 01:29:25.840
the things that are turning you on and

01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:28.119
the things that are connecting as being

01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:31.679
a more reliable marker

01:29:31.679 --> 01:29:35.000
for what comes

01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:37.840
next and uh that

01:29:37.840 --> 01:29:39.800
really

01:29:39.800 --> 01:29:41.000
hit

01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:44.119
[Music]

01:29:44.719 --> 01:29:49.560
um something about what

01:29:49.760 --> 01:29:53.119
um something about what you've talked

01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:55.080
about the idea of this idea of

01:29:55.080 --> 01:29:57.800
ingression and vocabulary and it just

01:29:57.800 --> 01:29:59.520
seems like some of the words that we're

01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:02.920
using are really similar across this

01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:05.199
space it you know that we're we're in

01:30:05.199 --> 01:30:07.719
this intimate space but also in the

01:30:07.719 --> 01:30:10.280
larger

01:30:10.280 --> 01:30:12.840
vocabulary like this idea of ingression

01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:15.199
and

01:30:15.199 --> 01:30:19.360
digestion um and the idea that of the

01:30:19.360 --> 01:30:23.560
the the digestion a as being that that

01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:26.000
thing that's the bacteria that are

01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:27.760
inside your stomach that do all that

01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:32.119
work for you um that aren't

01:30:32.119 --> 01:30:35.760
you and that

01:30:35.760 --> 01:30:39.639
you uh rely on to do good work for you

01:30:39.639 --> 01:30:42.920
and treating that

01:30:43.840 --> 01:30:48.679
part that respecting that as

01:30:48.679 --> 01:30:50.840
another that'ss

01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:53.840
inside

01:30:54.080 --> 01:30:57.480
and you know as with with all of these

01:30:57.480 --> 01:30:59.320
sessions it seems like the the what

01:30:59.320 --> 01:31:02.159
things that everybody talks about starts

01:31:02.159 --> 01:31:05.800
to overlap

01:31:05.920 --> 01:31:11.000
um um but that that that this relates in

01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:13.159
a way to the way that that we use

01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:16.080
language the kinds of of media that we

01:31:16.080 --> 01:31:18.840
consume and like are you know am am I

01:31:18.840 --> 01:31:23.760
feeding the bacteria the right stuff

01:31:24.159 --> 01:31:27.159
um and I'm asking that question for the

01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:29.360
new

01:31:29.960 --> 01:31:32.440
year

01:31:32.440 --> 01:31:38.199
um and um this idea of crisp that David

01:31:38.199 --> 01:31:40.080
brought up

01:31:40.080 --> 01:31:46.320
um last session um and stance um as um

01:31:46.320 --> 01:31:50.080
as a you know as a an ideal position to

01:31:50.080 --> 01:31:53.760
be in for agility

01:31:54.080 --> 01:31:55.679
one thing that you asked a question in

01:31:55.679 --> 01:32:00.600
one of the sessions was this idea of

01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:02.679
um what would be the thing that would

01:32:02.679 --> 01:32:04.440
hold you

01:32:04.440 --> 01:32:08.679
back if you could just do the thing like

01:32:08.679 --> 01:32:10.280
what would be the

01:32:10.280 --> 01:32:14.560
thing and it it it struck me when at

01:32:14.560 --> 01:32:16.320
some point in the in the breakout room

01:32:16.320 --> 01:32:17.840
when we were having that conversation

01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:19.960
that it was merely my ability to

01:32:19.960 --> 01:32:24.320
maintain my stance like staying

01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:28.760
vertical ready to go like that

01:32:30.280 --> 01:32:34.159
that so um I don't know where I'm going

01:32:34.159 --> 01:32:35.719
with this really but I I'm just saying

01:32:35.719 --> 01:32:38.280
that this has been very fruitful for me

01:32:38.280 --> 01:32:42.080
and thank you to everybody in this

01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:45.320
space and you B Bonita it's just uh yeah

01:32:45.320 --> 01:32:47.600
it's really been a pleasure to be here

01:32:47.600 --> 01:32:51.000
and I'm looking forward to the theme of

01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:53.560
music

01:32:53.560 --> 01:32:55.119
that's uh that has a lot of meaning for

01:32:55.119 --> 01:32:57.920
me too

01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:03.040
so yeah that's beautiful like everything

01:33:03.040 --> 01:33:05.960
you touched on we could go we could have

01:33:05.960 --> 01:33:08.920
like the school of that this school of

01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:11.880
that this school of that and actually

01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:15.000
that's that's what I'm hoping for that

01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:18.320
like like

01:33:18.320 --> 01:33:22.199
whatever insights we're producing here

01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:25.040
can

01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:30.480
catalyze much more work and reasoning

01:33:30.480 --> 01:33:36.760
and um engagement in the in its

01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:41.000
own its own kind

01:33:41.560 --> 01:33:46.440
of uh specific or

01:33:47.040 --> 01:33:53.560
or unique way you know so like

01:33:59.280 --> 01:34:02.560
um I what we're doing here is only

01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:06.639
providing the Catalyst for so much work

01:34:06.639 --> 01:34:07.760
that you

01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:11.560
all can

01:34:11.560 --> 01:34:16.199
promote and the idea here is that you

01:34:16.199 --> 01:34:17.560
all

01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:19.880
remember

01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:22.040
that the cat

01:34:22.040 --> 01:34:24.760
for this kind of

01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:27.159
new

01:34:27.159 --> 01:34:31.480
Excursion comes from some

01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:34.080
fundamental transformations in how you

01:34:34.080 --> 01:34:36.639
see the

01:34:38.040 --> 01:34:41.040
world

01:34:44.119 --> 01:34:48.560
um so the whole point is not

01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:50.119
to

01:34:50.119 --> 01:34:54.840
um in close people into a

01:34:54.840 --> 01:34:59.080
Dogma but to create Insight

01:34:59.080 --> 01:35:02.719
so what they're interested

01:35:02.719 --> 01:35:08.480
in has this sense of a new view right so

01:35:08.480 --> 01:35:11.760
I'm interested in Psychology oh but the

01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:13.679
world is maybe I could think of

01:35:13.679 --> 01:35:15.719
psychology this way or maybe I could

01:35:15.719 --> 01:35:17.679
think of this this way or maybe I can

01:35:17.679 --> 01:35:20.000
think of this this

01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:22.400
way and

01:35:22.400 --> 01:35:26.159
that makes us

01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:30.239
all part of the same

01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:33.639
project whether you're into talking more

01:35:33.639 --> 01:35:37.679
about Consciousness or or

01:35:37.679 --> 01:35:39.679
neurobiology or

01:35:39.679 --> 01:35:42.280
hormonal Cycles or

01:35:42.280 --> 01:35:45.880
something what do

01:35:46.040 --> 01:35:49.280
these what does this new view have to

01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:53.840
contribute to that and well also open to

01:35:53.840 --> 01:35:56.440
reflexive um

01:35:56.440 --> 01:36:00.199
criticism and those new

01:36:02.719 --> 01:36:05.719
views

01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:18.159
um yes

01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:23.119
Phoebe well I had an ins

01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:29.080
just now from what um uh C

01:36:29.080 --> 01:36:31.040
said

01:36:31.040 --> 01:36:36.320
um are we feeding the bacteria the right

01:36:36.320 --> 01:36:39.040
stuff and then I

01:36:39.040 --> 01:36:42.159
thought how the

01:36:42.159 --> 01:36:46.000
bacteria can I trust the bacteria in my

01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:49.119
body to let me know what is the right

01:36:49.119 --> 01:36:52.679
stuff because how the heck would I know

01:36:52.679 --> 01:36:57.719
and then that beg that asks the question

01:36:57.719 --> 01:37:00.360
am I in relationship for the bacteria in

01:37:00.360 --> 01:37:04.080
my body such that the bacteria in my

01:37:04.080 --> 01:37:09.000
body are enlivened by and um participate

01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:11.880
in who I am and I think maybe that

01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:14.639
happens by default but this whole idea

01:37:14.639 --> 01:37:16.360
of the ingression that you speak of

01:37:16.360 --> 01:37:20.199
Bonnie feels like that it is a

01:37:20.199 --> 01:37:23.199
um

01:37:25.760 --> 01:37:28.040
an

01:37:30.360 --> 01:37:32.040
Awakening

01:37:32.040 --> 01:37:36.679
uh at the most basic level from what's

01:37:36.679 --> 01:37:40.840
out there to what's in here so that the

01:37:40.840 --> 01:37:42.880
the that the

01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:44.679
synchronicities

01:37:44.679 --> 01:37:47.920
maybe I don't know I'm

01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:52.199
just so that the synchronicities can

01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:56.400
happen um from the bacteria to the world

01:37:56.400 --> 01:37:58.880
and back like there's there's this

01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:02.800
participation at this profound level and

01:38:02.800 --> 01:38:04.199
I just want to throw that out because

01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:05.920
that that I don't know if that makes

01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:07.320
sense and if it's I got a little

01:38:07.320 --> 01:38:09.239
self-conscious because my daughter's

01:38:09.239 --> 01:38:11.000
over there and she's probably thinking

01:38:11.000 --> 01:38:13.400
what the [ __ ] is my mother talking about

01:38:13.400 --> 01:38:15.599
well that's good because because then

01:38:15.599 --> 01:38:20.119
they're like oh she must okay so um

01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:22.599
ingression is a big

01:38:22.599 --> 01:38:25.040
deal I mean I had all these things we're

01:38:25.040 --> 01:38:26.360
going to talk about this has been

01:38:26.360 --> 01:38:31.880
beautiful conversation but like

01:38:35.280 --> 01:38:39.800
um like is the bacteria in me being

01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:43.040
healthy is also part to do with like

01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:45.719
what are my actions in the world so

01:38:45.719 --> 01:38:49.400
ingression is a two-way street like how

01:38:49.400 --> 01:38:51.400
I act in the world affects my my

01:38:51.400 --> 01:38:54.199
bacteria and my bacteria affects how I

01:38:54.199 --> 01:38:55.360
am in the

01:38:55.360 --> 01:38:59.800
world so it's very it's because there's

01:38:59.800 --> 01:39:01.760
internal and external

01:39:01.760 --> 01:39:06.560
relationships so one way into so I don't

01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:08.960
have a lot

01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:13.040
of access to my bacteria in my I can't

01:39:13.040 --> 01:39:16.800
feel them I can't think I can't like

01:39:16.800 --> 01:39:19.320
hang out with them and see if they're

01:39:19.320 --> 01:39:22.000
having a good good time

01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:24.159
the only way I can

01:39:24.159 --> 01:39:26.880
actually

01:39:26.880 --> 01:39:29.400
access whether they're having a good

01:39:29.400 --> 01:39:32.880
time is to what do I what do I do in the

01:39:32.880 --> 01:39:38.000
world as a human being

01:39:38.239 --> 01:39:41.560
so you know at the level of the ego the

01:39:41.560 --> 01:39:44.320
ey that is

01:39:44.320 --> 01:39:48.480
me I can try not to like put pesticides

01:39:48.480 --> 01:39:54.679
out or to like destroy bacteria in the

01:39:54.679 --> 01:39:59.040
world and that will make the bacteria in

01:39:59.040 --> 01:40:01.679
me healthier over

01:40:01.679 --> 01:40:04.360
time do you see what I'm saying like

01:40:04.360 --> 01:40:09.000
this notion of ingression is that that I

01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:13.480
don't have a lot of cognitive access to

01:40:13.480 --> 01:40:16.840
how the bacteria feel in

01:40:16.840 --> 01:40:20.599
me but I can have relationship with

01:40:20.599 --> 01:40:23.760
bacter IA in the world like okay I don't

01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:26.960
want you there but not to like just go

01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:29.560
and kill

01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:32.520
bacteria and they're they're the same

01:40:32.520 --> 01:40:36.920
thing my external relationship with

01:40:36.920 --> 01:40:41.040
bacteria is my response to my internal

01:40:41.040 --> 01:40:43.119
relationship with

01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:44.960
bacteria I don't

01:40:44.960 --> 01:40:48.599
know that's kind of

01:40:48.719 --> 01:40:51.040
confusing B bnny can I add something

01:40:51.040 --> 01:40:53.880
think I was sparked by feebe and new in

01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:57.400
that I actually had a condition that is

01:40:57.400 --> 01:41:00.159
called sio maybe some people here know

01:41:00.159 --> 01:41:02.719
but is when there is overgrowth of

01:41:02.719 --> 01:41:05.960
bacteria in the small intestine so then

01:41:05.960 --> 01:41:08.960
I could feel the bacteria because it was

01:41:08.960 --> 01:41:12.520
overgrown yeah and it bloated and it was

01:41:12.520 --> 01:41:14.000
interesting because that brought me to

01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:17.760
the malware so like when it's so visible

01:41:17.760 --> 01:41:20.159
that it actually really impedes like so

01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:22.639
I started having uh so then I had to

01:41:22.639 --> 01:41:24.520
bring them to Extinction like which

01:41:24.520 --> 01:41:27.320
brings me to my to my first

01:41:27.320 --> 01:41:30.800
conundrum which is like the what what do

01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:33.679
we have to take out of reality and then

01:41:33.679 --> 01:41:36.440
you know so then it's it's it's um

01:41:36.440 --> 01:41:38.000
anyway I don't have a conclusion but it

01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:40.360
was I had to make a lot of efforts in my

01:41:40.360 --> 01:41:43.920
life to take out some bacteria like make

01:41:43.920 --> 01:41:44.920
them

01:41:44.920 --> 01:41:49.520
extinct um so that's an interesting flip

01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:52.840
that's something yeah

01:41:55.320 --> 01:41:59.800
but you understood them

01:42:00.280 --> 01:42:03.920
as that they also have a life and now

01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:07.119
I'm G to make them extinct in my

01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:08.719
life

01:42:08.719 --> 01:42:12.040
anyways um and I just wanted to say

01:42:12.040 --> 01:42:14.119
bunny that you asked the question and we

01:42:14.119 --> 01:42:16.679
didn't respond verbally but I responded

01:42:16.679 --> 01:42:19.119
internally because you said you said I

01:42:19.119 --> 01:42:21.520
don't want to lose you and how where do

01:42:21.520 --> 01:42:23.679
you want to go and I was thinking my

01:42:23.679 --> 01:42:25.480
first impulse was like oh there's no

01:42:25.480 --> 01:42:27.119
freaking way you're going to Lo like

01:42:27.119 --> 01:42:28.400
lose me

01:42:28.400 --> 01:42:31.760
or I think there's some there's

01:42:31.760 --> 01:42:33.199
something about the pop-up school that

01:42:33.199 --> 01:42:35.239
feels I try to understand what it is

01:42:35.239 --> 01:42:37.760
with my mind and I can't quiet because

01:42:37.760 --> 01:42:41.119
the intimacy that I feel here in some

01:42:41.119 --> 01:42:43.280
level or the magnetism that you name

01:42:43.280 --> 01:42:46.119
love or the something the charge of the

01:42:46.119 --> 01:42:48.960
words it's I don't know the context of

01:42:48.960 --> 01:42:51.119
most people here I barely know anybody I

01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:52.760
haven't seen anybody in person the only

01:42:52.760 --> 01:42:56.639
person I've seen in is um Cheryl and yet

01:42:56.639 --> 01:43:00.199
there's some entrainment and and it's

01:43:00.199 --> 01:43:02.280
really rare like there's something that

01:43:02.280 --> 01:43:04.159
what you bring the the way you bring

01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:07.239
intimacy here is different and I'm

01:43:07.239 --> 01:43:09.560
curious about it because it's very it's

01:43:09.560 --> 01:43:13.320
very unique and I feel that um with the

01:43:13.320 --> 01:43:15.280
there's something that can trust the the

01:43:15.280 --> 01:43:17.679
depth or the dark or the death or

01:43:17.679 --> 01:43:19.960
something in the way that you brought

01:43:19.960 --> 01:43:23.480
and it feels really um re-enchanted or

01:43:23.480 --> 01:43:26.800
something you um I can't word it but I'm

01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:29.760
just I'm really excited for what's being

01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:33.000
created here it feels really

01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:35.560
beautiful yeah

01:43:35.560 --> 01:43:38.199
so I mean I had this whole thing I was

01:43:38.199 --> 01:43:41.320
gonna show today as our last day this

01:43:41.320 --> 01:43:43.599
year I didn't show any of

01:43:43.599 --> 01:43:46.280
it and what I was going to present is

01:43:46.280 --> 01:43:52.679
something that I wrote in 2009

01:43:54.520 --> 01:43:58.280
so Facebook started in 2004 Twitter

01:43:58.280 --> 01:44:01.239
started YouTube

01:44:01.239 --> 01:44:04.159
2005 Twitter 20

01:44:04.159 --> 01:44:08.599
2006 my big big huge article I had this

01:44:08.599 --> 01:44:12.119
blog on WordPress called integral review

01:44:12.119 --> 01:44:17.040
books I wrote this huge thing in

01:44:17.040 --> 01:44:22.040
2009 and it actually predicted a lot of

01:44:22.040 --> 01:44:25.040
where we're at today cuz I went back to

01:44:25.040 --> 01:44:28.599
this hadn't seen it forever and then you

01:44:28.599 --> 01:44:30.679
were saying like you know I'm the new

01:44:30.679 --> 01:44:35.800
human blah blah blah but

01:44:37.760 --> 01:44:41.280
um what's interesting is

01:44:41.280 --> 01:44:46.040
that um a lot of where we're at and what

01:44:46.040 --> 01:44:51.480
we're doing I think is um in the system

01:44:51.480 --> 01:44:54.760
for a long time and next year the

01:44:54.760 --> 01:44:56.880
question is like do we

01:44:56.880 --> 01:45:00.719
just continue to complain about where

01:45:00.719 --> 01:45:04.840
we're going and can we think of a a

01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:07.199
culture that's not

01:45:07.199 --> 01:45:11.000
like incredibly different like lyric

01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:14.400
culture is not like this

01:45:14.400 --> 01:45:17.280
huge hugely different

01:45:17.280 --> 01:45:22.480
idea but something that can

01:45:22.920 --> 01:45:24.840
see the

01:45:24.840 --> 01:45:27.679
possibility

01:45:27.679 --> 01:45:30.480
of understanding ourselves

01:45:30.480 --> 01:45:35.400
as new humans you know like in a gentle

01:45:35.400 --> 01:45:37.560
way

01:45:37.560 --> 01:45:41.719
um sometimes like when when I think of

01:45:41.719 --> 01:45:44.760
the design of next year and this idea of

01:45:44.760 --> 01:45:47.560
the lyric culture in the new human in

01:45:47.560 --> 01:45:52.480
the sense of gentle gentle

01:45:54.119 --> 01:45:59.960
transformation um I also suspect

01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:04.320
that there's there's there's two ideas I

01:46:04.320 --> 01:46:07.199
have one one is that and the other is

01:46:07.199 --> 01:46:11.440
like no not gentle transformation like

01:46:11.440 --> 01:46:15.719
boom boom I could hit hit you all with

01:46:15.719 --> 01:46:20.900
really extreme hard uh hard

01:46:20.900 --> 01:46:22.880
[Music]

01:46:22.880 --> 01:46:25.679
um challenges let's

01:46:25.679 --> 01:46:28.080
say

01:46:28.080 --> 01:46:31.560
um so for right now we're going to do

01:46:31.560 --> 01:46:34.840
lyric culture and a gentle

01:46:34.840 --> 01:46:38.119
transformation and I think the idea here

01:46:38.119 --> 01:46:39.199
is

01:46:39.199 --> 01:46:43.520
like everything in the gentle

01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:46.840
transformation there are insights and

01:46:46.840 --> 01:46:51.560
leverage points that are extremely

01:46:51.560 --> 01:46:55.280
powerful and maybe it's up to you to say

01:46:55.280 --> 01:46:58.000
I'm going to let these things Hit me

01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:02.159
hard like like some of the insights

01:47:02.159 --> 01:47:02.960
we've

01:47:02.960 --> 01:47:05.599
had

01:47:05.599 --> 01:47:09.840
um the convivial Society you know

01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:14.400
like do I notice the person in

01:47:14.400 --> 01:47:17.719
the a stranger that I need to

01:47:17.719 --> 01:47:21.280
help so we don't really

01:47:21.280 --> 01:47:26.400
keep banging on that but can you as

01:47:26.400 --> 01:47:30.000
individuals let that hit you hard and

01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.639
then share that

01:47:32.639 --> 01:47:35.639
experience versus me like trying to hit

01:47:35.639 --> 01:47:39.320
you hard over and over and over

01:47:39.320 --> 01:47:43.679
again um

01:47:46.199 --> 01:47:49.560
matalina um there was this sort of

01:47:49.560 --> 01:47:51.760
humbling thing because there's this guy

01:47:51.760 --> 01:47:56.560
in the village that I'm very intrigued

01:47:56.560 --> 01:47:59.199
by and he

01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:02.199
ingressive I mean you know by the time

01:48:02.199 --> 01:48:04.040
he arrived here he had spent three

01:48:04.040 --> 01:48:07.719
months living on a beach in a moldy tent

01:48:07.719 --> 01:48:11.840
and because I have my door open and

01:48:11.840 --> 01:48:13.960
somebody had told him that if the door

01:48:13.960 --> 01:48:18.160
was open he could come in and so he did

01:48:18.160 --> 01:48:19.239
[Music]

01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:20.840
and

01:48:20.840 --> 01:48:24.440
five hours and dinner later you know it

01:48:24.440 --> 01:48:26.440
turns out he's some kind of

01:48:26.440 --> 01:48:31.760
polymath and but he's very very harsh I

01:48:31.760 --> 01:48:35.520
mean he's so sick of organized hypocrisy

01:48:35.520 --> 01:48:40.239
and [ __ ] and hit bottom plenty of

01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:44.239
times that is very hard for him to sort

01:48:44.239 --> 01:48:47.560
of be together with other people in in

01:48:47.560 --> 01:48:50.199
in in a way that doesn't generate

01:48:50.199 --> 01:48:52.480
potentially

01:48:52.480 --> 01:48:57.280
irreparable conflict and yet I feel like

01:48:57.280 --> 01:49:00.639
if he's here he's from here that kind of

01:49:00.639 --> 01:49:03.639
sense and and I didn't know what to do

01:49:03.639 --> 01:49:05.199
because I wanted some of the people that

01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:07.679
were visiting I thought could definitely

01:49:07.679 --> 01:49:10.520
meet him and see him you know in a

01:49:10.520 --> 01:49:13.119
different way but I obviously didn't

01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:15.440
want to force it and it turned out they

01:49:15.440 --> 01:49:18.480
met him like one by

01:49:18.480 --> 01:49:21.719
one like just walking on the

01:49:21.719 --> 01:49:26.679
beach and then just before they left he

01:49:26.679 --> 01:49:30.520
walked in my face with this huge smile

01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:34.440
you know and just said I know what you

01:49:34.440 --> 01:49:39.360
mean some people do see me I don't have

01:49:39.360 --> 01:49:42.840
to beat them up with a baseball

01:49:42.840 --> 01:49:46.000
bat but don't think I'm going to you

01:49:46.000 --> 01:49:50.280
know um and so like I guess when I'm

01:49:50.280 --> 01:49:53.679
kind of saying is that there is this

01:49:53.679 --> 01:49:56.199
thing that can happen kind of by itself

01:49:56.199 --> 01:50:00.119
like I was trying to

01:50:00.119 --> 01:50:03.159
coordinate and maybe that intention was

01:50:03.159 --> 01:50:05.760
out there I hate all this new a language

01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:11.880
but you know it did happen and it

01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:14.719
did you

01:50:14.719 --> 01:50:18.760
know surprised me and I think this

01:50:18.760 --> 01:50:21.280
willingness of being Sur right that

01:50:21.280 --> 01:50:24.639
things might work themselves out in a

01:50:24.639 --> 01:50:28.760
way um if you're circulating in a

01:50:28.760 --> 01:50:31.119
certain way which I think is sort of

01:50:31.119 --> 01:50:33.840
what you're talking about in this

01:50:33.840 --> 01:50:36.599
Catalyst um movement that you don't even

01:50:36.599 --> 01:50:38.960
notice but just because

01:50:38.960 --> 01:50:43.360
you're um trying to be a body in space

01:50:43.360 --> 01:50:46.239
and aware of this body and space that

01:50:46.239 --> 01:50:49.239
you are whether you say something or do

01:50:49.239 --> 01:50:51.880
something or don't do something and do

01:50:51.880 --> 01:50:55.520
not doing is as important as doing so

01:50:55.520 --> 01:51:00.360
the action protocol can be don't do

01:51:00.360 --> 01:51:04.560
anything and watch really carefully what

01:51:04.560 --> 01:51:08.679
the little signs might be and so much of

01:51:08.679 --> 01:51:12.239
that really has been this year's work

01:51:12.239 --> 01:51:15.480
for me with you guys all of

01:51:15.480 --> 01:51:19.760
you um and I really look forward to I

01:51:19.760 --> 01:51:23.920
think theal culture the dental

01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:27.280
transformation is I think just non

01:51:27.280 --> 01:51:30.679
brutal it can be violent but it doesn't

01:51:30.679 --> 01:51:32.560
have to be brutal I think there's a

01:51:32.560 --> 01:51:35.239
distinction between brutality and

01:51:35.239 --> 01:51:38.400
violence because bureaucracy can be

01:51:38.400 --> 01:51:42.920
brutal but it doesn't make you black and

01:51:48.960 --> 01:51:51.960
blue

01:51:55.920 --> 01:51:57.719
okay four more

01:51:57.719 --> 01:52:00.599
minutes anybody holding on to something

01:52:00.599 --> 01:52:02.960
they would like to

01:52:02.960 --> 01:52:07.800
say I want to share something awesome I

01:52:07.800 --> 01:52:12.119
want to I want to change I want to add

01:52:12.119 --> 01:52:12.920
to

01:52:12.920 --> 01:52:15.520
my vow for next

01:52:15.520 --> 01:52:18.880
year it was really interesting like

01:52:18.880 --> 01:52:22.000
something was coming up around the words

01:52:22.000 --> 01:52:24.040
in sickness and in

01:52:24.040 --> 01:52:27.679
health like when you get married and you

01:52:27.679 --> 01:52:31.840
do your vows and you make a commitment

01:52:31.840 --> 01:52:35.639
to another and to

01:52:35.639 --> 01:52:38.000
life

01:52:38.000 --> 01:52:40.360
and yeah it's it's it's actually a

01:52:40.360 --> 01:52:42.119
phrase that me and Xavier will joke

01:52:42.119 --> 01:52:44.239
about sometimes like when one of us is

01:52:44.239 --> 01:52:46.239
being kind of annoying or like it's like

01:52:46.239 --> 01:52:49.440
oh in sickness and in health but I think

01:52:49.440 --> 01:52:51.800
there's like

01:52:51.800 --> 01:52:54.800
something

01:52:56.320 --> 01:53:00.480
um I think it's am realizing that it's

01:53:00.480 --> 01:53:04.719
one thing to fall in love the way Holly

01:53:04.719 --> 01:53:06.040
just described

01:53:06.040 --> 01:53:08.840
it it's one thing to fall in

01:53:08.840 --> 01:53:11.679
love uh it's another thing

01:53:11.679 --> 01:53:15.719
to fall in love with the world where

01:53:15.719 --> 01:53:17.920
you're willing to be

01:53:17.920 --> 01:53:21.079
with the Sickness and the

01:53:21.079 --> 01:53:23.320
health and I think I was just struck

01:53:23.320 --> 01:53:25.800
when we were when it was mentioned just

01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:27.760
to

01:53:27.760 --> 01:53:30.760
love to really

01:53:30.760 --> 01:53:35.599
love your neighbors to love just someone

01:53:35.599 --> 01:53:41.000
you to love just to love everyone here

01:53:41.679 --> 01:53:45.679
it's that like that uh the realness of

01:53:45.679 --> 01:53:48.760
what that means is

01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:51.760
actually

01:53:52.760 --> 01:53:55.199
I can see why you I can see why Bonnie

01:53:55.199 --> 01:53:57.320
you're saying oh I don't want to lose

01:53:57.320 --> 01:53:59.520
any of you on this journey

01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:03.840
because that's act that's terrifying on

01:54:03.840 --> 01:54:08.760
some level um what that would do to you

01:54:08.760 --> 01:54:10.800
uh what that's doing uh what that's

01:54:10.800 --> 01:54:15.880
doing to me even as I deepen even as I'm

01:54:15.880 --> 01:54:18.679
just present with that

01:54:18.679 --> 01:54:22.679
so yeah I just want to I want to commit

01:54:22.679 --> 01:54:23.480
to

01:54:23.480 --> 01:54:26.159
that I want to commit to you and I want

01:54:26.159 --> 01:54:28.760
to commit to this work of loving with

01:54:28.760 --> 01:54:29.719
all of

01:54:29.719 --> 01:54:33.199
you thank you and I just want to say

01:54:33.199 --> 01:54:36.400
that's beautiful and and yet what we're

01:54:36.400 --> 01:54:38.560
doing here is

01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:42.760
just Community like if we were

01:54:42.760 --> 01:54:45.599
old-fashioned

01:54:45.599 --> 01:54:49.719
people having to deal with drought with

01:54:49.719 --> 01:54:54.320
when the when the when the grains didn't

01:54:54.320 --> 01:54:58.560
come in and the cows are dying and this

01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:02.159
and that there there's at at some level

01:55:02.159 --> 01:55:05.119
we're trying to be build a

01:55:05.119 --> 01:55:07.239
community

01:55:07.239 --> 01:55:12.920
virtually that can navigate the

01:55:12.920 --> 01:55:14.920
same

01:55:14.920 --> 01:55:16.960
pressures and

01:55:16.960 --> 01:55:20.040
personalities and perspectives I mean

01:55:20.040 --> 01:55:21.920
it's a little more complicated cuz I

01:55:21.920 --> 01:55:24.159
mean we're much more complex society but

01:55:24.159 --> 01:55:26.599
at the

01:55:26.719 --> 01:55:29.199
base that's what we're trying to do

01:55:29.199 --> 01:55:30.760
we're trying to be a community we're

01:55:30.760 --> 01:55:33.639
trying to be a lyric culture let's say

01:55:33.639 --> 01:55:38.880
this is the Trope it's not a theory it's

01:55:38.880 --> 01:55:41.360
not a blah blah blah it's a Trope that

01:55:41.360 --> 01:55:44.159
we're trying to be a lyric

01:55:44.159 --> 01:55:45.800
culture

01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:47.560
that

01:55:47.560 --> 01:55:51.040
um where these

01:55:51.040 --> 01:55:54.079
questions of Community are transparent

01:55:54.079 --> 01:55:58.719
instead of just um they're not organic

01:55:58.719 --> 01:56:00.800
and natural anymore because we're not a

01:56:00.800 --> 01:56:02.800
farming Community we're not a blah blah

01:56:02.800 --> 01:56:05.800
blah the world has become

01:56:05.800 --> 01:56:09.760
problematically complex so yeah that's

01:56:09.760 --> 01:56:12.840
beautiful and

01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:17.320
um do we have something some way to make

01:56:17.320 --> 01:56:18.520
make

01:56:18.520 --> 01:56:22.480
explicit this way of being a community

01:56:22.480 --> 01:56:23.760
that will

01:56:23.760 --> 01:56:26.360
survive the

01:56:26.360 --> 01:56:29.040
catastrophic

01:56:29.040 --> 01:56:32.320
um destruction of

01:56:32.320 --> 01:56:35.079
community and I think that's what we're

01:56:35.079 --> 01:56:38.920
trying to do next year um in all its

01:56:38.920 --> 01:56:41.880
complexity yeah

01:56:42.280 --> 01:56:47.079
Matt uh just occurs to me

01:56:47.360 --> 01:56:50.400
that you can

01:56:50.400 --> 01:56:53.159
yeah you can lose people by being too

01:56:53.159 --> 01:56:54.639
parsh and

01:56:54.639 --> 01:56:57.639
whatever but you can Al lose people by

01:56:57.639 --> 01:56:59.520
not being harsh

01:56:59.520 --> 01:57:04.920
enough um that just occurred to me yeah

01:57:04.920 --> 01:57:08.280
yeah awesome and the word harsh is

01:57:08.280 --> 01:57:10.119
probably not the best word but I think

01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:12.920
we all understand what you're saying so

01:57:12.920 --> 01:57:15.199
with

01:57:17.599 --> 01:57:19.710
that I'm feeling a little

01:57:19.710 --> 01:57:21.599
[Music]

01:57:21.599 --> 01:57:27.480
little reluctant to call it a WRA but I

01:57:27.480 --> 01:57:29.840
love you all so

01:57:29.840 --> 01:57:34.400
deeply uh you've ingressed into me so

01:57:34.400 --> 01:57:38.880
I'm a different person than I was a year

01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:41.679
ago and I'm better for

01:57:41.679 --> 01:57:45.040
it without a

01:57:45.040 --> 01:57:49.880
doubt and um yeah couple of week weeks

01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:57.599
we start a new a new round and uh

01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:04.880
yeah