# Awareness: Reflection, Recursivity, Reflexivity 2023 cohorts transcripts ## Cohort 1 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:06.020 thank you 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:08.700 [Music] 00:00:08.700 --> 00:00:11.700 and good day everyone good morning good 00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:14.780 afternoon good evening 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:22.740 um Okay so 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:27.060 um we are going to be talking today 00:00:27.060 --> 00:00:29.779 about 00:00:30.119 --> 00:00:32.300 um 00:00:32.940 --> 00:00:35.579 what's the title oh uh Reef awareness 00:00:35.579 --> 00:00:40.860 reflection recursivity and reflexivity 00:00:40.860 --> 00:00:43.980 so first we want to we're going to do an 00:00:43.980 --> 00:00:47.160 exercise uh in a little bit 00:00:47.160 --> 00:00:51.239 but first we want to uh just to find 00:00:51.239 --> 00:00:53.340 those terms 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:56.460 uh start with 00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:00.379 um so that we can control 00:01:00.379 --> 00:01:03.120 our uh 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:07.439 so during the exercise we can filter out 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.500 what we're interested in most and what 00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:13.619 we're not interested so 00:01:13.619 --> 00:01:14.520 um 00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:16.920 we can start 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.320 we'll start with reflection 00:01:19.320 --> 00:01:22.140 and there were two definitions of 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:23.939 reflection 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.000 one was quite ordinary so when I say 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:30.360 okay let's say we just finished a game 00:01:30.360 --> 00:01:33.479 of tennis and I'm your coach and we come 00:01:33.479 --> 00:01:35.400 in okay let's reflect on what happened 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:40.140 right this is the common uh way of 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:43.920 reflecting it's after the fact 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:50.939 um and what we notice is that it it has 00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:53.700 mostly to do what we talked about when 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:56.220 we talked about memory right so we'll 00:01:56.220 --> 00:01:59.399 remember some things uh some of the 00:01:59.399 --> 00:02:01.799 people that you know on the team some 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.740 things will be more Salient to them than 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:07.399 others so you get this kind of like 00:02:07.399 --> 00:02:09.899 little hodgepodge of what people 00:02:09.899 --> 00:02:11.760 remember 00:02:11.760 --> 00:02:14.040 and then they will make sense of it 00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:18.239 retrospectively they will update their 00:02:18.239 --> 00:02:20.160 experience 00:02:20.160 --> 00:02:20.879 um 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.640 in service of the moment so if it's a 00:02:23.640 --> 00:02:26.220 young team you will see that Johnny 00:02:26.220 --> 00:02:28.980 what's Salient for him is when he lost 00:02:28.980 --> 00:02:33.000 that match and it made a big deal and 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.040 um somebody else might not have even 00:02:35.040 --> 00:02:38.819 remembered that and then then Johnny's 00:02:38.819 --> 00:02:41.760 will start to talk about have a 00:02:41.760 --> 00:02:44.040 reflection on 00:02:44.040 --> 00:02:46.920 um that point which includes a lot of 00:02:46.920 --> 00:02:49.280 made up stuff in the moment right so 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.220 reflect that's what reflection is now 00:02:53.220 --> 00:02:55.860 having characterized it that way 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:59.760 uh reflection or retrospective sense 00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:04.200 making is very important because instead 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:06.900 of coming away from a game and just 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:10.140 being have different people have 00:03:10.140 --> 00:03:13.379 different memories of it when you 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:15.599 reflect together or even when you 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:18.599 reflect in yourself you're basically 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:20.760 what you're doing is generating a new 00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:22.980 starting position you're generating 00:03:22.980 --> 00:03:25.260 another origin story well tomorrow's 00:03:25.260 --> 00:03:27.659 another day we have another match 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:29.940 So that's its function does that make 00:03:29.940 --> 00:03:32.099 sense 00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:35.580 um so instead of so it's helpful for us 00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:37.860 as human beings to make retrospective 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:39.840 sense making that's our new starting 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:43.200 position and then we go forward we do 00:03:43.200 --> 00:03:45.299 this very well in collectives and we 00:03:45.299 --> 00:03:49.440 also do this to ourselves when uh when 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:50.340 uh 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:52.739 so we're not disoriented 00:03:52.739 --> 00:03:55.560 um but it but this is Taps into memory 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:58.680 and Imagination filling in the blanks 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.680 with updating memory to serve the 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.480 present moment does that make sense to 00:04:03.480 --> 00:04:05.659 everyone 00:04:05.819 --> 00:04:08.640 then there's this spiritual metaphysical 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:11.400 uh 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:16.199 notion of reflection as twinnness 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.440 um you know people will say that we are 00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:22.740 a perfect reflection of 00:04:22.740 --> 00:04:27.120 reality or this twinness 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:31.259 um this has a lot more to do with uh 00:04:31.259 --> 00:04:34.139 pure abstraction that's something in the 00:04:34.139 --> 00:04:37.740 world has it is reflecting something in 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:40.259 us a deep pattern 00:04:40.259 --> 00:04:41.220 um 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:43.620 um or the sense that we're interjecting 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:46.199 the abstraction from the world 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.360 so this is a kind of a metaphysical 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:51.720 thing we can talk about it later but 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.020 it's it's more speculative philosophy 00:04:55.020 --> 00:04:58.020 and ideation uh we're not going to talk 00:04:58.020 --> 00:05:00.240 too much about that today but this 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.540 notion of twinness uh the subject is a 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:05.400 perfect reflection of the object and 00:05:05.400 --> 00:05:08.280 vice versa the finger the moon's 00:05:08.280 --> 00:05:12.419 reflection in the uh the Water 00:05:12.419 --> 00:05:15.540 we'll get to that probably later 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:17.460 um 00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:22.139 but that's not what we're after today 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.259 then there's recursivity in our in our 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:28.380 experiment today you have you we want to 00:05:28.380 --> 00:05:31.440 be careful we don't get we want to be 00:05:31.440 --> 00:05:33.660 careful that we notice when we're in a 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:36.060 recursive Loop 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:39.120 so the recursive Loop is 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.960 um I notice that I can see this book 00:05:42.960 --> 00:05:45.360 and then I can say well who's seeing the 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:50.639 book and then I say well okay my my mind 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:52.560 is seeing the book and then I said who 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:54.600 seeing my mind and then 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:58.020 I can get a recursive completely it's 00:05:58.020 --> 00:06:01.440 not it doesn't stop uh you can go and 00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:03.300 beta on something and I met on that and 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:05.360 then meta on that and then meta on that 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.300 and this notion of recursivity is a 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:12.479 process of property of the discursive 00:06:12.479 --> 00:06:14.580 mind 00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:16.740 um we want to notice when I send you 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:19.380 into the experiment when that happens 00:06:19.380 --> 00:06:21.539 and you want to just try to exit it 00:06:21.539 --> 00:06:23.400 breathe through that and start over 00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:24.300 again 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:26.880 uh so 00:06:26.880 --> 00:06:29.039 um now 00:06:29.039 --> 00:06:31.020 when that happens you might be 00:06:31.020 --> 00:06:33.120 interested in how does that happen what 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.419 are what are the properties that put me 00:06:36.419 --> 00:06:39.240 into a recursive Loop or infinite 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.380 regress we we talk about that 00:06:43.380 --> 00:06:47.639 um so you might want to notice 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.580 uh what's happening what is composing 00:06:50.580 --> 00:06:52.860 this recursivity 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:56.580 um but you don't want to 00:06:56.580 --> 00:07:00.060 um get sucked in into it 00:07:00.060 --> 00:07:01.259 um 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:04.759 so uh 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.460 um so the snake eating its tail this 00:07:08.460 --> 00:07:10.440 notion of 00:07:10.440 --> 00:07:12.020 um 00:07:12.020 --> 00:07:15.840 uh it's infinite regression is a kind of 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:18.300 recursivity 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:22.199 um there's nowhere out uh no matter how 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.120 meta you go on it 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:25.199 um 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.979 you can go meta on it like like I'm the 00:07:28.979 --> 00:07:31.080 wit I'm the witness that's witnessing 00:07:31.080 --> 00:07:33.840 the witness who's witnessing The 00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:35.639 Experience 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:37.440 um but you notice you don't make any 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:39.720 progress because the structural 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.960 relationship is the same you've just 00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:46.919 created this Hall of Mirrors so uh 00:07:46.919 --> 00:07:48.479 that's something you might want to 00:07:48.479 --> 00:07:50.639 notice does anybody have any questions 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.660 about that 00:07:58.979 --> 00:08:00.780 yes Claudia 00:08:00.780 --> 00:08:03.120 yeah I think I think my question refers 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.400 back a little bit to the reflection 00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:07.380 um aspect because you were describing it 00:08:07.380 --> 00:08:10.800 as reflecting on something in the past 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.660 um but that past can be 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:13.979 just 00:08:13.979 --> 00:08:16.979 very like very immediately to the Past 00:08:16.979 --> 00:08:19.740 and I'm just like I can notice that I 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:21.120 can have a thought about something and 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:24.060 what I'm doing is reflecting okay yeah 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:25.919 yeah so I don't know what that is no no 00:08:25.919 --> 00:08:27.840 so this will be part of your experiment 00:08:27.840 --> 00:08:31.080 are you reflecting except it's very very 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:34.260 very narrow isolation or are you doing 00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:35.760 something else 00:08:35.760 --> 00:08:38.520 so that's a very good ex 00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:40.800 um this is what we're trying we're going 00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:43.979 to try to uh 00:08:43.979 --> 00:08:48.260 notice so that would still be reflecting 00:08:48.260 --> 00:08:50.940 you will notice that some people's 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:54.080 experience if they can't slow down time 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.420 and be attentive to the space won't 00:08:57.420 --> 00:08:59.519 think they're reflecting they'll think 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.279 there's something else going on 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:05.820 uh just because you have to be 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:07.620 you know a lot of what we've been doing 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:09.779 is slowing down like when we did with 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:12.779 memory slowing down opening the space ah 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:14.640 I see what's happening in between here 00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:16.380 there's a memory but that's a thought 00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:19.980 and so this is part of when I set you on 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:22.500 your experiment to be 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:24.080 be 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.380 uh Vigilant about and then I'll ask you 00:09:28.380 --> 00:09:31.019 well how do you know 00:09:31.019 --> 00:09:34.560 it has a biomarker of course we can't 00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:37.620 know these things by making distinctions 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:40.440 because the distinctions themselves 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.899 languages too coarse grain but then we 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:45.360 can notice the biomarker 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.040 um so 00:09:47.040 --> 00:09:48.959 so does that answer your question and 00:09:48.959 --> 00:09:52.320 it's really a good question because uh 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.300 it's the yeah that we would call it 00:09:54.300 --> 00:09:56.580 reflection 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.540 um in either case Justin 00:10:00.540 --> 00:10:03.300 what I notice I do is I I do reflect to 00:10:03.300 --> 00:10:06.240 see what's there and at a point I stop 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:08.580 and see what it feels like 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:11.880 and if any patterns or words show up for 00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:14.459 those patterns 00:10:14.459 --> 00:10:17.519 um then I'll address that and then I I 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:18.839 reach a point where there are no words 00:10:18.839 --> 00:10:20.459 and I just move into silence and I stay 00:10:20.459 --> 00:10:23.220 there and I do that all the time 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:24.600 but I don't know if that's going better 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.399 because I'm not thinking in the silence 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.220 I'm allowing the products to be it's not 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:31.200 going better it's just it's just 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.600 occupying a different vantage point or 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:35.640 change it's a state change it's not 00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:38.279 going meta would be 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:39.300 um 00:10:39.300 --> 00:10:41.640 in that you know it's I wouldn't call 00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:44.339 that going meta okay it does because you 00:10:44.339 --> 00:10:46.260 don't get in a loop 00:10:46.260 --> 00:10:49.140 um meta always exits the domain that 00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:50.940 it's in and then you can exit that 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:53.160 domain so I can be doing religion and 00:10:53.160 --> 00:10:55.800 then say what is doing religion I've 00:10:55.800 --> 00:10:58.380 gotten that on it then I can say what is 00:10:58.380 --> 00:11:01.440 doing the meta theory of religion like I 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:05.279 met on that and so this is kind of uh 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.500 more of the feeling so 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:08.100 um 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:09.899 so that's a good question what's a 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:12.540 biomarker anybody have a good definition 00:11:12.540 --> 00:11:15.600 of a biomarker Claudia maybe you do 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.940 since you were not in your head yeah 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:21.120 well just a little movement of something 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.000 in the body my little movement like for 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.220 me sometimes the if I'm really attentive 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:28.440 that reflexive is a little a little 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.300 movement in them in the mind a little 00:11:30.300 --> 00:11:33.120 movement yeah so you can experience it 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.860 as a 00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:37.380 um when I'm when I'm remembering 00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:40.620 something if I notice it my posture is 00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:42.779 different my gestures are different I go 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:45.959 to different places in my mind 00:11:45.959 --> 00:11:49.740 um if I'm imagining something it feels 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:52.440 different than remembering something it 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:54.600 feels different to imagine than to 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.200 remember it feels different to run than 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.440 to walk and so that's what I mean by a 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.920 biomarker you can start to get very well 00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:08.339 acquainted with what muscles you're 00:12:08.339 --> 00:12:10.079 using 00:12:10.079 --> 00:12:11.940 um whether that's Intuition or 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:17.220 imagination or remembering or simulation 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:19.740 um or justification 00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:22.620 um because they presence themselves in 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:25.200 the body in different ways they feel 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.480 different there's a there's a biomarker 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.820 you know when you're a kid and you're 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:31.920 about and you're kind of afraid your 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:34.320 mother said did you do that and you did 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:40.079 and uh you're about to tell a lie 00:12:40.079 --> 00:12:42.839 how do you know it's a lie you can feel 00:12:42.839 --> 00:12:44.820 that you're about to tell a lie it has a 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:47.160 biomarker to it 00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:50.120 um certain sociopaths don't have that 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:54.420 literally don't feel any difference in 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:57.000 their body between truth and lies most 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.160 people 00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:01.740 it's a feeling you don't calculate it 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.740 you can feel the difference between so 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:08.360 that's what a biomarker is 00:13:10.680 --> 00:13:12.420 okay 00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:14.279 um 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:18.139 and then we have reflexivity which is 00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:22.380 sensefulness or mindful Heating 00:13:22.380 --> 00:13:24.899 this is where you get out of the 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:26.519 reflection 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.700 and you're you're with everything in the 00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:31.380 moment 00:13:31.380 --> 00:13:32.459 um 00:13:32.459 --> 00:13:35.339 so instead of in the article I put 00:13:35.339 --> 00:13:38.399 instead of perception Gap sensation Gap 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:42.360 a little bit of motion Gap up memory Gap 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.480 you just you just 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:49.380 see them as seamless flows with a little 00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:52.160 bit of 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.519 variety you feel the flux in the FL in 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.019 the flow 00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:01.139 um And you're extra you're so you're 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:03.240 heating you're you're paying attention 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.779 but you're not after the moment you're 00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:10.860 not behind the present experience 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:14.279 um so this is what meditation is this is 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:18.180 we're going to try to be in this uh 00:14:18.180 --> 00:14:22.019 meditative posture called uh mindful 00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:23.420 Heating 00:14:23.420 --> 00:14:25.139 so 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:29.279 um if you are facilitating a course 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.120 um you may understand that and there's a 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.940 lot of tension in the room you start to 00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:38.399 you start to 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:40.920 a lot of things are hot processing at 00:14:40.920 --> 00:14:43.199 the same time you might have your hands 00:14:43.199 --> 00:14:45.060 like this and you want to make them 00:14:45.060 --> 00:14:48.000 softer you want to make then and then 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.279 you might be pushing with your words and 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:51.860 you're noticing 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:55.320 you're noticing external cues in your 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:57.540 environment but you're also working your 00:14:57.540 --> 00:15:00.120 body at the same time your words are 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.639 coming out of your mouth 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:03.660 um 00:15:03.660 --> 00:15:07.079 um automatically and you're noticing the 00:15:07.079 --> 00:15:09.360 effect of you know they affect it as 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.779 they arise uh when you work with 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:16.680 horses uh at a high level 00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:19.199 um it requires you to be very much in 00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:21.180 the moment because if you're behind the 00:15:21.180 --> 00:15:23.579 action you'll get hurt 00:15:23.579 --> 00:15:28.380 um so uh mindful heating is 00:15:28.380 --> 00:15:29.940 um 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:32.000 um 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:37.680 is in tune with all The Experience 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:42.480 interior and exterior as one Gestalt in 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.880 as much of the present moment as you can 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:48.959 and in the in the article I say you know 00:15:48.959 --> 00:15:52.620 you're not distracted enough to label or 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.040 make something a thing uh because then 00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:59.339 for minute period of time you'll have 00:15:59.339 --> 00:16:02.399 stop the flow like if someone got raise 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.260 their voice and then you're like oh he 00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:06.779 always does that then you're behind the 00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:10.800 action and then this makes us not as as 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:12.779 fluent so 00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:16.199 mindful heating is what we're going to 00:16:16.199 --> 00:16:19.199 try to do in this exercise 00:16:19.199 --> 00:16:20.820 um there's not except there's not that 00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:23.639 much externally to be mindful of with 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.279 more of a meditation 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.260 um so 00:16:28.260 --> 00:16:30.060 um 00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:34.019 and then that brings us to this strange 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:38.360 word awareness now 00:16:38.459 --> 00:16:40.380 how many of you have done meditation 00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:43.440 practices called oh being aware of 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.139 awareness 00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:48.240 have any of you taken some of those 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.480 Sandra Liz okay 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.259 so what just describe if you both could 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:58.880 take turns and describe what the 00:16:58.880 --> 00:17:01.980 instructions were sort of like if you 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:03.150 can remember 00:17:03.150 --> 00:17:06.339 [Music] 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.880 a really simple example might be 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.819 that your 00:17:14.819 --> 00:17:17.520 noticing that you're judging 00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:20.160 and then you're judging that you're 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:21.839 judging 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.620 and and you're just 00:17:24.620 --> 00:17:28.860 tracking whatever is emerging in the 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:32.160 moment with as much as possible no 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.100 evaluation of it or no 00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:36.900 um opinion but if you have an opinion 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:38.160 about it then you notice you're having 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.960 an opinion about it you let that go you 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.700 just keep letting go 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:45.240 and welcoming whatever is arising 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.960 next 00:17:52.860 --> 00:17:56.940 say noticing what is noticing 00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:00.900 yes so it's what Liz said and then it's 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:04.620 well then what's noticing 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:07.320 okay so looking for what's looking 00:18:07.320 --> 00:18:09.799 noticing for what's noticing 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:15.240 noticing that yes exactly Raj this is 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.000 the question 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:20.760 that we are going to try to answer is 00:18:20.760 --> 00:18:23.520 this recursivity what is this noticing 00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:25.140 what's noticing looking for what's 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.120 looking 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:29.160 um 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:29.200 um 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.320 [Music] 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:34.520 and we're going to 00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:37.020 all right 00:18:37.020 --> 00:18:43.679 track this question down and where is my 00:18:43.679 --> 00:18:46.020 perhaps we're gonna track this question 00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:47.880 down 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.400 um and 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.140 that will be obviously one of the uh one 00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:57.299 of the questions that we'll have okay 00:18:57.299 --> 00:19:01.100 here are my my things so 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:02.880 um 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.620 so the first thing we're going to do is 00:19:07.620 --> 00:19:09.900 um some of you will cheat and go to the 00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:11.520 second thing because it's already on the 00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:14.100 table that's okay 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:16.100 um but the first thing we're going to do 00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:23.100 for 20 minutes is just sit with what are 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:26.760 we aware of okay so right now I'm aware 00:19:26.760 --> 00:19:29.220 of a fan sound over there I'm aware of 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.980 this and we'll just mind be mindful 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:36.539 heating of what we're aware of 00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.720 um so this is the easier phase 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:44.520 um and just try to relax and 00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:45.299 um 00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:48.240 uh we'll we'll spend maybe just 15 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.299 minutes doing this and 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:53.280 um we're not going to do this in 00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:55.679 breakouts we'll do the second one in 00:19:55.679 --> 00:19:57.900 breakouts oh Claudia go ahead 00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:59.940 so if we're aware of thought we're just 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.100 aware of thought yes if you're aware of 00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:04.559 that you're just aware of thoughts 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:06.059 um you don't have to label or anything 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:08.940 but just notice that 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:10.919 um 00:20:10.919 --> 00:20:12.179 um 00:20:12.179 --> 00:20:13.919 you know you can notice a bunch of 00:20:13.919 --> 00:20:15.660 things you'll notice that as you become 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:18.960 aware your your attention moves a little 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.900 and different things 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:26.100 um and uh which is simple awareness that 00:20:26.100 --> 00:20:28.799 um yeah that we can be aware of these 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.320 things if we were unconscious or 00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:33.660 anesthetized 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.780 um my heart might be still beating but I 00:20:36.780 --> 00:20:39.660 would not be aware that my heart is 00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.460 beating 00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.740 um so 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.320 um just notice 00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:49.020 um that experience itself we're going to 00:20:49.020 --> 00:20:53.340 turn off our videos for 15 minutes and 00:20:53.340 --> 00:20:56.039 um just sit with ourselves just for 15 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:58.740 minutes in this simple exercise before 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:03.080 we go to the experiment 00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:26.399 okay you can come back in when you're 00:31:26.399 --> 00:31:28.580 ready 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.779 thank you 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.799 um okay so we're going to do a series of 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.460 short uh exercises 00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:53.460 that get will build on each other and 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:57.240 you'll do them in breakout groups so 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.820 you're going to have 15 minutes for the 00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:02.820 breakout groups you can use this first 00:32:02.820 --> 00:32:05.220 exercise uh 00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.679 if you want to debrief with your 00:32:07.679 --> 00:32:10.799 breakout group and Orient around it 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.340 um but try to stay within the boundaries 00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:17.580 of each exercise because I think it will 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:20.580 they'll build on each other more than if 00:32:20.580 --> 00:32:24.539 you uh Jump Ahead having said that 00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:27.720 sometimes you have to just say what you 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.659 need to say okay so in this first 00:32:30.659 --> 00:32:33.200 exercise 00:32:33.659 --> 00:32:37.380 um which will last for 10 minutes uh let 00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:39.120 me put that in there that it's because 00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:41.880 these are very easy so we'll do a little 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:42.840 quick 00:32:42.840 --> 00:32:46.380 you're going to um 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:48.960 you're going to put you're going to be 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.600 aware of your breathing 00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:53.580 right you know what that means simply 00:32:53.580 --> 00:32:55.559 just aware of your breathing 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:58.260 and you're going to ask yourself 00:32:58.260 --> 00:33:00.710 what is it that is aware of my breathing 00:33:00.710 --> 00:33:02.399 [Music] 00:33:02.399 --> 00:33:05.039 or how is it that I am aware of my 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:06.840 breathing 00:33:06.840 --> 00:33:10.799 and you will notice 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:12.799 um 00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:17.159 um see if you can notice an oscillation 00:33:17.159 --> 00:33:21.000 between the first just being aware of 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.700 your breathing and then trying to be 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:25.740 aware of how it is that you're aware of 00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:27.360 the breathing now you may oscillate 00:33:27.360 --> 00:33:28.860 because you'll say okay now I'm going to 00:33:28.860 --> 00:33:31.440 ask my question well that's a thought 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.019 that's an oscillation I was aware of my 00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:36.240 breathing and then I reminded myself to 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.820 switch that's an oscillation but then C 00:33:38.820 --> 00:33:41.640 as you're then going back to trying to 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.240 be aware of your breathing whereas where 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.519 is the oscillation 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.860 or not does that kind of make sense you 00:33:49.860 --> 00:33:51.840 can help each other out 00:33:51.840 --> 00:33:54.779 um so don't quite get that you're aware 00:33:54.779 --> 00:33:57.480 of your breathing and then your have a 00:33:57.480 --> 00:33:59.100 thought you're aware of your breathing I 00:33:59.100 --> 00:34:01.080 mean it seems to me the same thing but 00:34:01.080 --> 00:34:04.140 uh okay right so there if I'm aware of 00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:06.179 my breathing and then I remember okay I 00:34:06.179 --> 00:34:08.040 want to go to the second part of the ex 00:34:08.040 --> 00:34:10.440 of the the thing well there's an 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.119 oscillation between them or where am I 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:13.500 breathing and then I have the thought 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:15.839 and I noticed I stopped being aware of 00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:17.280 my breathing when I went to the thought 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.220 right 00:34:19.220 --> 00:34:23.099 so that's an oscillation that one's 00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:25.260 rather trivial now I'm going to go back 00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:28.619 to the exercise where I'm trying to be 00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:31.379 aware of my breathing 00:34:31.379 --> 00:34:33.960 and I'm going to ask myself well what is 00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:36.240 aware what is being aware of my 00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:38.599 breathing 00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:43.859 is is this is what else is it and 00:34:43.859 --> 00:34:47.040 and I might go in and out of thought but 00:34:47.040 --> 00:34:48.899 there might be another oscillation there 00:34:48.899 --> 00:34:52.080 that's much more subtle 00:34:52.080 --> 00:34:56.280 um okay so uh and you know work it out 00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:59.760 together so uh you're in with uh someone 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.980 who's done a lot of this work I think so 00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:06.359 that the system knows how to uh 00:35:06.359 --> 00:35:08.940 knows how to set these guys up okay it's 00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:10.680 just 10 minutes and we'll come back so 00:35:10.680 --> 00:35:13.260 it's okay it ends in confusion it's just 00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:15.680 10 minutes 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:35.599 foreign 00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:28.980 foreign 00:37:32.060 --> 00:37:37.820 any questions comments or shares 00:37:41.730 --> 00:37:44.949 [Music] 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.000 I noticed a lot of 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.320 contrast like precision expansiveness 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.480 thinking feeling 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.260 personal experiential 00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:16.700 my breath does not like this exercise 00:38:20.520 --> 00:38:24.140 doesn't want to be 00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:32.960 objectified in a way 00:38:36.359 --> 00:38:39.540 I think going into a observation or 00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:41.420 awareness 00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:44.520 shifts my 00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:46.520 um 00:38:48.140 --> 00:38:52.460 my my participating in and with breath 00:38:52.460 --> 00:38:55.680 into something that is 00:38:55.680 --> 00:38:58.680 separating 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:04.160 and then it changes the nature 00:39:14.700 --> 00:39:17.400 yeah at first I found it hard to 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.180 ask the question and stay with a kind of 00:39:21.180 --> 00:39:23.099 deep awareness of the breath the 00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:24.839 question would 00:39:24.839 --> 00:39:27.480 would take me away from the awareness of 00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.960 the breath 00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:36.180 yeah these are all isolations that we're 00:39:36.180 --> 00:39:37.800 not noticing 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.260 so this is good this is we're trying to 00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:43.020 build on on this 00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:46.640 I noticed that um 00:39:46.740 --> 00:39:49.560 I am typically very aware of the 00:39:49.560 --> 00:39:51.300 experience that the breathing is having 00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.099 on my body and not aware of the 00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:55.020 breathing itself 00:39:55.020 --> 00:39:58.079 so at least initially to pay attention 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.780 to breathing of itself was it irritating 00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:03.480 because it's required a kind of focus 00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:05.339 that where I typically know doesn't 00:40:05.339 --> 00:40:07.440 exist 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.859 but uh we ended up in Great Space we did 00:40:10.859 --> 00:40:13.680 it quieted there was 00:40:13.680 --> 00:40:18.020 salt and caressing at the end 00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:23.400 yeah that was interesting I also noticed 00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.579 in the last few minutes my breathing 00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:30.300 started to get very deep and steady 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:33.380 of its own accord 00:40:38.700 --> 00:40:40.560 I stayed with it 00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:41.460 um 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:43.680 deepened actually the participation with 00:40:43.680 --> 00:40:45.540 the breath that actually activated my 00:40:45.540 --> 00:40:47.339 imagination quite a bit 00:40:47.339 --> 00:40:48.839 and then somehow that kind of actually 00:40:48.839 --> 00:40:50.579 deepened my participation with the 00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:52.260 breath gave me kind of a different 00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:54.119 perspective imagination started to 00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:56.099 activate 00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:58.800 okay good there's another oscillation 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.900 from just being with the breath 00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:10.740 okay we're gonna go on is that is anyone 00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:12.980 else 00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:19.960 your comments or Instagram yeah 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.200 [Music] 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:24.660 hi everyone 00:41:24.660 --> 00:41:25.830 um 00:41:25.830 --> 00:41:27.420 [Music] 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:30.540 it was a hard really a hard thing it was 00:41:30.540 --> 00:41:33.540 like I I was thinking oh 00:41:33.540 --> 00:41:37.619 I have to move into search space 00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:41.820 and that in and of itself kind of then 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:45.240 makes me Focus which takes away this 00:41:45.240 --> 00:41:48.180 kind of expanded appearance so 00:41:48.180 --> 00:41:51.839 that those who are oscillations and then 00:41:51.839 --> 00:41:54.359 uh 00:41:54.359 --> 00:41:58.140 I I I saw that it was quite impossible 00:41:58.140 --> 00:42:00.540 to answer that question 00:42:00.540 --> 00:42:03.900 so I stayed with the impossibility 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:09.119 and then the breathing and 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.740 whatever is aware of breathing kind of 00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:17.040 resolved in a in a sweet and Blissful 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:19.320 mood 00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:21.900 kind of 00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:25.200 yeah yeah there's some cues in here so 00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:27.599 I'll just we'll just keep building on it 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.060 there's a lot of cues in here 00:42:30.060 --> 00:42:32.119 um 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.180 I'm tempering my own enthusiasm 00:42:39.180 --> 00:42:42.720 so we can go into the next next round is 00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:45.060 there something else that hasn't been 00:42:45.060 --> 00:42:48.060 said in one version or another 00:42:48.060 --> 00:42:50.180 yeah 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.700 oh Raj go ahead 00:42:53.700 --> 00:42:55.440 uh okay 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.200 um so there was an awareness 00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:00.720 or maybe a thought of 00:43:00.720 --> 00:43:05.119 my own breathing but then the four of us 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.640 a share breathing which felt at least 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:11.819 easier for me to observe external then 00:43:11.819 --> 00:43:13.260 of course I had this thought of 00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:14.700 entanglement 00:43:14.700 --> 00:43:17.339 and the entanglement of breathing 00:43:17.339 --> 00:43:18.119 um 00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:21.020 as I thought 00:43:29.640 --> 00:43:31.859 one way I experienced the oscillation I 00:43:31.859 --> 00:43:34.200 think was when I tried to come with this 00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:36.000 question of what is the way of depressed 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.280 and then I had to like speak it in my 00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:41.040 mind silently 00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:42.900 oh 00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:45.000 you know a place up to yeah and then 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.140 then there was a completely different 00:43:48.140 --> 00:43:52.800 this was interesting yeah so and then 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.440 to to be able to need to do that in a 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.060 way to to the second part 00:44:01.859 --> 00:44:04.020 um I think I I will add 00:44:04.020 --> 00:44:06.079 um 00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:09.839 I experienced much like motion 00:44:09.839 --> 00:44:14.280 experience this restlessness to find 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:17.000 and 00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:19.560 when the three of us were 00:44:19.560 --> 00:44:22.380 sharing about it there was this sense 00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:25.800 that it was a burden somehow 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.040 but for me it wasn't burdensome the 00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:33.300 oscillation Was Juicy in that there was 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:35.819 a uh 00:44:35.819 --> 00:44:38.099 this kind of 00:44:38.099 --> 00:44:40.859 wanting to explore the breath leaving 00:44:40.859 --> 00:44:44.060 the breath wanting to explore back into 00:44:44.060 --> 00:44:48.300 and of course I am very much aware that 00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:51.800 there was an instruction in the exercise 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:58.160 so and it felt juicy to dive into that 00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:02.280 good so we know what we can essentially 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.200 in oscillations everyone's really good 00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:05.579 at this 00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:06.900 um 00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:08.040 um 00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:11.760 which is great mindful heating so you 00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:14.339 know when I think of this question I can 00:45:14.339 --> 00:45:16.140 be aware of my breathing 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:17.760 I did it too 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.560 then I thought what if I stopped 00:45:19.560 --> 00:45:21.780 breathing then I'm aware of my not 00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:24.260 breathing 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.300 but then I realized I could be either 00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:29.520 breathing or not breathing and not be 00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:32.640 aware of it like 00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:35.460 um you know when you're just washing the 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:37.560 dishes you're either breathing or not 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:38.579 breathing 00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:42.800 uh and you're not aware of it 00:45:43.140 --> 00:45:45.480 so 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.880 what's the difference 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.839 what's the difference 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.240 um 00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:55.940 can I say one more thing Bonnie I just 00:45:55.940 --> 00:45:58.079 worked when David 00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:00.540 um spoke that there's a 00:46:00.540 --> 00:46:03.660 I noticed uh in in that shifting from 00:46:03.660 --> 00:46:06.180 awareness to what is aware the question 00:46:06.180 --> 00:46:10.079 it's almost like if I could slip that 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.079 question in fast enough I I wouldn't 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.140 break the awareness but I would expand 00:46:16.140 --> 00:46:18.240 the awareness 00:46:18.240 --> 00:46:21.420 yeah so there's a trick here 00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:24.420 um and and this is all very good please 00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:27.060 don't jump to conclusions and this next 00:46:27.060 --> 00:46:28.500 one is 00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:30.540 um okay now this one 00:46:30.540 --> 00:46:33.720 what we're going to do is we're going to 00:46:33.720 --> 00:46:36.060 be aware of different things coming into 00:46:36.060 --> 00:46:38.220 our awareness like some of you already 00:46:38.220 --> 00:46:39.720 did that I was aware of the breath and 00:46:39.720 --> 00:46:42.060 then in my imagination 00:46:42.060 --> 00:46:45.900 and the question I want and it's 00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:49.800 actually motion kind of uh went into 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:53.760 this there's a sense of 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.380 um 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.260 I want you to every time you something 00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:01.440 comes into your awareness that you've 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.660 already familiar with whether it's a 00:47:03.660 --> 00:47:07.319 thought or bodily sensation or 00:47:07.319 --> 00:47:10.940 imagination or memory or 00:47:10.940 --> 00:47:13.440 dispositional State you know Phoebe said 00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:15.480 my breath didn't like it that wasn't 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.140 switching your dispositional state 00:47:19.140 --> 00:47:22.859 um so it's a complex mix of bodily 00:47:22.859 --> 00:47:24.960 Sensations 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.040 um 00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:28.680 all these things you want to recognize 00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:30.480 and you want to put them aside and say 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.099 no I'm not interested in that I'm 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:34.619 interested in the thing that's aware 00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:37.619 you just keep putting them aside 00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:40.619 putting them aside 00:47:40.619 --> 00:47:42.660 this is like what Liz says and if I 00:47:42.660 --> 00:47:44.880 could be really like if I could put them 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.180 aside and reveal that which is aware of 00:47:48.180 --> 00:47:50.579 them this is the kind of game you're 00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:52.740 playing with yourself okay it's an 00:47:52.740 --> 00:47:55.619 instruction it's a it is these are games 00:47:55.619 --> 00:47:57.180 like 00:47:57.180 --> 00:48:00.900 um so so last time we were interested in 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:02.400 the oscillation first time we're 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:04.680 interested in what is an awareness 00:48:04.680 --> 00:48:08.880 Dennis interest in the oscillations now 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.579 we're just gonna 00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:12.780 those kinds of things we're already 00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:14.280 familiar with 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:16.740 we just say I'm not no it's not 00:48:16.740 --> 00:48:20.040 interested and I'm interested in 00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:24.000 what is aware of that you know so 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.440 um 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:29.940 and then try to uh it can be a little 00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:34.940 reflective uh but try to uh 00:48:34.940 --> 00:48:38.760 experience what this exercise brings up 00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:40.800 for you that's all I'm going to say so 00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:42.599 does everybody understand the 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:44.640 instruction I mean literally it can be 00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:46.440 like a game 00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:48.500 um 00:48:50.240 --> 00:48:52.740 what we're trying to figure out is can 00:48:52.740 --> 00:48:54.359 we be aware 00:48:54.359 --> 00:48:56.400 of something that's other than all those 00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:58.260 things and 00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:59.220 um 00:48:59.220 --> 00:49:03.420 or try to like Liz said if I could just 00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:06.300 look behind 00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:09.960 what I'm aware of and see the awareness 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.579 directly 00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:13.500 okay 00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:17.339 we'll go 15 minutes and uh let me change 00:49:17.339 --> 00:49:20.119 that on this 00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:23.280 and I love the way you're holding this 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.660 more like attending and not like really 00:49:26.660 --> 00:49:29.520 uh driving yourself crazy that's what we 00:49:29.520 --> 00:49:30.660 learned a little while ago about 00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:34.380 attending to experience is a very rich 00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:36.119 way to 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.119 um to move through these kinds of funny 00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:41.400 questions about being a human okay have 00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.640 fun 00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:11.300 foreign 00:51:23.040 --> 00:51:26.040 foreign 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:09.660 [Music] 00:52:09.660 --> 00:52:13.319 yeah I I ended with a thought about this 00:52:13.319 --> 00:52:15.619 kind of recursive thing like 00:52:15.619 --> 00:52:19.079 why is it lurking where am I not seeing 00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:21.540 it like in the exercise having 00:52:21.540 --> 00:52:23.579 difficulty if I'm actually doing it 00:52:23.579 --> 00:52:26.579 right awareness of awareness okay and 00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:28.500 like um 00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.839 like like then more like feeling like 00:52:30.839 --> 00:52:33.359 when they're reflective reflexivity mode 00:52:33.359 --> 00:52:35.520 like we had before like in the beginning 00:52:35.520 --> 00:52:37.859 I felt like it was there and then but 00:52:37.859 --> 00:52:40.319 trying to exercise it confuses me and 00:52:40.319 --> 00:52:42.900 then I'm not sure I can like 00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:46.079 um have an answer for that like I don't 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:50.119 know in a way confused 00:52:50.220 --> 00:52:53.940 yeah no every instruction has different 00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:55.680 uh 00:52:55.680 --> 00:52:58.020 different consequences so that's that's 00:52:58.020 --> 00:53:02.520 that's fair it's a fair share 00:53:02.520 --> 00:53:03.480 um 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:06.619 so this one sets you up to 00:53:06.619 --> 00:53:10.500 tends to make it more recursive 00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:12.780 all right good 00:53:12.780 --> 00:53:15.059 Claudia 00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:17.040 yeah but I was actually comparing it to 00:53:17.040 --> 00:53:19.319 the kind of direct recursive you know 00:53:19.319 --> 00:53:21.480 looking for what's looking where 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.000 there's a clear for me and nothing there 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.160 but with this one 00:53:26.160 --> 00:53:29.760 because it I was I wasn't asking what is 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.260 aware of aware but what is aware of 00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:33.960 breathing and kind of saying no to 00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:36.900 everything that I found I there was a 00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.180 kind of something there it felt a bit 00:53:39.180 --> 00:53:41.160 different to the yeah 00:53:41.160 --> 00:53:44.240 to the recursive 00:53:49.140 --> 00:53:51.540 yeah the place was like it's it's a game 00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:54.900 this is a game like let's have fun and 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:57.359 be serious but it that's kind of where I 00:53:57.359 --> 00:53:59.280 ended up 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.440 yeah no I love the attitude toward it 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:02.640 you know 00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:05.220 um what we're honing in on are some 00:54:05.220 --> 00:54:07.800 metaphysical claims that the Buddhists 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:09.180 make 00:54:09.180 --> 00:54:12.599 um which we haven't brought up yet but 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.559 um 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:14.520 um 00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:18.960 yeah so uh 00:54:19.020 --> 00:54:21.599 this is all good 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:24.079 okay 00:54:24.359 --> 00:54:27.240 go ahead motion oh okay 00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:30.240 um uh what came up for me was I 00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:34.680 remembered 1980 the famous old zen way 00:54:34.680 --> 00:54:35.960 of 00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:38.880 negativa not this not this this is how I 00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.559 heard the instruction 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:44.700 and how I interpret it so anything that 00:54:44.700 --> 00:54:46.619 came up for me as 00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:49.140 now this could be a win so this could be 00:54:49.140 --> 00:54:52.260 I just said no no no no no no no no no 00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:54.140 no no 00:54:54.140 --> 00:54:55.859 and 00:54:55.859 --> 00:54:57.859 um 00:54:58.200 --> 00:55:02.339 kante ended up but there there was the 00:55:02.339 --> 00:55:05.160 there is this pervasive sense of 00:55:05.160 --> 00:55:08.000 well-being 00:55:08.040 --> 00:55:09.420 um 00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:14.579 of well-being here like and 00:55:14.579 --> 00:55:16.760 um 00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:20.940 and also the question cannot be answered 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:25.140 so you know why try that doesn't really 00:55:25.140 --> 00:55:28.079 make sense because that is to be thrown 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:31.920 away as well anything that can be the 00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.800 answer cannot be the answer any object 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.339 cannot be the subject so 00:55:38.339 --> 00:55:39.420 um 00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:43.260 so it was quite fun and I'm very much in 00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:45.180 a very beautiful 00:55:45.180 --> 00:55:45.900 um 00:55:45.900 --> 00:55:49.079 round space 00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.520 it feels pretty good 00:55:54.900 --> 00:55:57.420 I thought it was fascinating I could 00:55:57.420 --> 00:56:01.859 I could be aware of Sensations occurring 00:56:01.859 --> 00:56:04.260 but the moment I thought to do anything 00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:06.180 I wasn't there anymore so there is the 00:56:06.180 --> 00:56:07.920 awareness and it is fascinating that 00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:11.460 could be aware of what was going on 00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:14.720 but any thought any impulse any action 00:56:14.720 --> 00:56:18.359 removed me from that space which was 00:56:18.359 --> 00:56:21.140 interesting 00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:29.480 and who was aware that that was the case 00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:31.920 that's an unanswerable question as far 00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:34.520 as I'm concerned 00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:38.220 that's exactly why I gave up on the 00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.319 Hindu question who am I years and years 00:56:40.319 --> 00:56:41.819 and years ago because I don't think it's 00:56:41.819 --> 00:56:45.200 an answerable question yeah 00:56:45.540 --> 00:56:47.520 okay well I'm going to insert something 00:56:47.520 --> 00:56:50.240 and maybe 00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:54.540 um well 00:56:54.540 --> 00:56:56.160 um years and years ago when I was in 00:56:56.160 --> 00:56:59.640 theology school I um 00:56:59.640 --> 00:57:03.180 I read somebody was asked 00:57:03.180 --> 00:57:05.400 how do you pray 00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.260 and he answered 00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:12.059 oh I look at God and God looks at me 00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:14.280 so I thought hmm 00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:17.300 maybe I'll try that 00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:22.260 so I sat there trying to look at God 00:57:22.260 --> 00:57:23.819 and it was similar to what you were 00:57:23.819 --> 00:57:27.000 saying Motion in the sense that 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:31.619 I kept having to go back and go back and 00:57:31.619 --> 00:57:33.780 go back you know whatever it was I was 00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:36.420 looking with that ain't gonna see God so 00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:39.240 I gotta go back further and further and 00:57:39.240 --> 00:57:41.160 further and 00:57:41.160 --> 00:57:44.400 and it wasn't that I saw God 00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:46.440 if there is such a thing 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:49.440 but it was 00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:51.059 um 00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:54.020 that I 00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.700 putting myself 00:57:56.700 --> 00:57:59.640 in a position to see whatever whatever 00:57:59.640 --> 00:58:01.859 that might be 00:58:01.859 --> 00:58:04.619 allowed me to um 00:58:04.619 --> 00:58:07.079 I'm losing my words here 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:08.880 um 00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:10.339 sort of 00:58:10.339 --> 00:58:13.380 catalyzed me 00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:18.000 into further and further reaches of 00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:19.440 um 00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:21.420 of 00:58:21.420 --> 00:58:23.760 what I don't how I don't know myself to 00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.540 be kind of 00:58:29.220 --> 00:58:31.260 and I have a question about this 00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:33.619 exercise 00:58:33.780 --> 00:58:35.780 um 00:58:37.799 --> 00:58:39.960 motion you said you experienced a 00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.440 well-being I was going to sleep now part 00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:44.700 of that is 00:58:44.700 --> 00:58:48.920 um tiredness and part of it is 00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:52.280 that um 00:58:53.700 --> 00:58:57.440 in the absence of 00:58:59.700 --> 00:59:01.619 um 00:59:01.619 --> 00:59:04.200 a way to look at God to use that 00:59:04.200 --> 00:59:05.640 language 00:59:05.640 --> 00:59:09.420 and in the absence of 00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:12.180 being awake to 00:59:12.180 --> 00:59:14.180 um 00:59:14.520 --> 00:59:17.160 to what's there if the void gets bigger 00:59:17.160 --> 00:59:19.920 and bigger and I and I don't yet have a 00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:24.180 way to cohere in relationship with that 00:59:24.180 --> 00:59:27.140 then I think 00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:31.380 okay I'm way off in an exploratory land 00:59:31.380 --> 00:59:32.640 and I don't I know what I'm talking 00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:33.960 about 00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.720 um but I but there are times when 00:59:36.720 --> 00:59:40.380 there's such a sense of 00:59:40.380 --> 00:59:42.900 of coherence and aliveness 00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:47.160 that is also inviting me to let go and 00:59:47.160 --> 00:59:49.140 let go and let go and let go and then 00:59:49.140 --> 00:59:52.020 there's other times when I don't have 00:59:52.020 --> 00:59:54.059 that sense of 00:59:54.059 --> 00:59:56.180 um 00:59:56.700 --> 00:59:59.579 connectivity or something where there's 00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:02.599 a devolution 01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:04.799 of 01:00:04.799 --> 01:00:08.040 awareness or Devolution of being 01:00:08.040 --> 01:00:10.619 so that's 01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:12.260 a bunch of probably 01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:15.660 unexplored thoughts but 01:00:15.660 --> 01:00:18.200 okay 01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:48.780 we went out of that uh a bit 01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:50.940 when 01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:53.460 it just opened up 01:00:53.460 --> 01:00:58.799 into all of a sudden the thought of 01:00:58.799 --> 01:01:01.319 the war on the planet 01:01:01.319 --> 01:01:05.099 then I thought on my daily chores 01:01:05.099 --> 01:01:06.839 and I went back 01:01:06.839 --> 01:01:08.460 in 01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:14.099 and I noticed Sensations in my gut 01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:16.559 and I worked on bringing back into the 01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:19.819 breath and bringing it up 01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:24.680 and that and then 01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:29.880 so to me this is just 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:33.020 pure meditation 01:01:33.660 --> 01:01:35.240 but 01:01:35.240 --> 01:01:37.380 analyzing it 01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:40.339 it's rather beautiful 01:01:50.339 --> 01:01:53.520 I have this experience of being in a 01:01:53.520 --> 01:01:56.160 maze that's unsolvable no matter what 01:01:56.160 --> 01:01:58.200 turn you go to 01:01:58.200 --> 01:01:59.460 and 01:01:59.460 --> 01:02:01.140 um 01:02:01.140 --> 01:02:04.140 perhaps just the urge to sit in the 01:02:04.140 --> 01:02:07.760 acceptance of being an amazed 01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:11.180 mm-hmm 01:02:18.660 --> 01:02:20.520 personally I was feeling I didn't want 01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:22.859 to think about the maze I wanted to 01:02:22.859 --> 01:02:24.660 be active in it like I wanted to 01:02:24.660 --> 01:02:27.000 participate in it the thinking was 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:27.900 really 01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:31.099 I was starting to get Restless 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.960 so for me in the first round it started 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:42.599 out pretty simple it was like okay be 01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:44.520 aware of my breathing how is it that I'm 01:02:44.520 --> 01:02:46.319 aware of my breathing 01:02:46.319 --> 01:02:50.040 and so I could be aware of the qualities 01:02:50.040 --> 01:02:52.460 of my breaths I could be aware that 01:02:52.460 --> 01:02:55.799 breathing in breathing out since the 01:02:55.799 --> 01:02:56.800 physical sensation 01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:59.099 [Music] 01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:00.839 um but then moving to the next question 01:03:00.839 --> 01:03:04.819 what is being aware of my breathing 01:03:04.859 --> 01:03:06.980 um 01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:11.780 they're the thing that came up was how 01:03:11.780 --> 01:03:17.059 I I I'm aware 01:03:18.299 --> 01:03:21.240 my awareness shifts and that's one of 01:03:21.240 --> 01:03:25.140 the ways that I I know my awareness that 01:03:25.140 --> 01:03:28.020 if if it's here and then it's there and 01:03:28.020 --> 01:03:31.020 then and so in the second round asking 01:03:31.020 --> 01:03:35.880 us to just be aware of 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:38.480 um to focus on awareness itself 01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:42.480 that took on a life of its own where I 01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:44.460 started becoming curious about what 01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:48.059 moves the the awareness 01:03:48.059 --> 01:03:49.859 and 01:03:49.859 --> 01:03:51.299 um 01:03:51.299 --> 01:03:55.440 and and this notion that 01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:58.140 you know the awareness can be directed 01:03:58.140 --> 01:03:59.880 and then of course the question well 01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:01.559 what's doing that 01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:03.059 but it 01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:06.240 but then it's not just directing 01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:08.700 awareness it's awareness also can be 01:04:08.700 --> 01:04:10.440 called 01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:15.540 and when I when I S was 01:04:15.540 --> 01:04:19.079 able to see the the 01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:25.260 that movement of sort of we can 01:04:25.260 --> 01:04:27.900 there can be agency with awareness and 01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:30.599 then awareness can be 01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.500 can be called there is sort of like an 01:04:34.500 --> 01:04:36.619 interior exterior 01:04:36.619 --> 01:04:39.660 all the boundaries started to blur for 01:04:39.660 --> 01:04:44.220 me but it it there was there was this 01:04:44.220 --> 01:04:45.480 um 01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:47.640 the language starts to break down but 01:04:47.640 --> 01:04:51.960 there was a sense of how my awareness is 01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:56.960 alive and in participation 01:04:57.180 --> 01:04:58.740 um 01:04:58.740 --> 01:05:02.480 with the world something 01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:11.339 right say the entangled 01:05:11.339 --> 01:05:14.119 meant 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:20.520 commenting is important 01:05:20.520 --> 01:05:23.460 um so a lot of times depending how it's 01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:24.660 set up 01:05:24.660 --> 01:05:27.960 so first we notice we all notice now 01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:30.839 that the instructions are you're 01:05:30.839 --> 01:05:34.760 participating with instructions 01:05:35.460 --> 01:05:39.059 um and and I'm not trying to do any 01:05:39.059 --> 01:05:42.900 subtle Mojo mumble jumble but when you 01:05:42.900 --> 01:05:46.859 are in a meditative practice in a in a 01:05:46.859 --> 01:05:48.059 culture 01:05:48.059 --> 01:05:50.640 in a tradition 01:05:50.640 --> 01:05:52.859 um a lot of times you're not aware of 01:05:52.859 --> 01:05:56.940 how much the outcome is predetermined uh 01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:59.579 by the instructions 01:05:59.579 --> 01:06:01.200 um so 01:06:01.200 --> 01:06:04.200 um and I remember Thomas uh Arthur even 01:06:04.200 --> 01:06:05.880 said well your instructions are like 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:08.160 that too yeah but I'm not trying to have 01:06:08.160 --> 01:06:10.140 them build up to anything 01:06:10.140 --> 01:06:14.040 I mean it's always a catch-22 so 01:06:14.040 --> 01:06:16.680 um you're in a dispositional state it's 01:06:16.680 --> 01:06:19.880 primed by the instruction 01:06:21.359 --> 01:06:23.220 um and then 01:06:23.220 --> 01:06:24.299 um 01:06:24.299 --> 01:06:26.760 that's like an arousal we know arousal 01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:29.339 energy has its own value right like you 01:06:29.339 --> 01:06:32.579 want to satisfy uh you want a certain 01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:34.920 satisfaction satisfy the instruction or 01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:38.039 whatever so it is simple basic level 01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:41.039 where we haven't exited the actual 01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:43.920 formula of the sensory motor self it's 01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.500 the same does that make sense it's the 01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:48.859 same thing we have a dispositional state 01:06:48.859 --> 01:06:51.059 uh we're looking for a certain 01:06:51.059 --> 01:06:53.220 satisfaction because we want to play the 01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:54.780 game 01:06:54.780 --> 01:06:58.859 um and so it sends us out on a journey 01:06:58.859 --> 01:07:02.640 in this case though we're not using our 01:07:02.640 --> 01:07:05.339 physical perception in between right 01:07:05.339 --> 01:07:08.280 we're not looking 01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:11.940 like if I say oh find the ad uh we're 01:07:11.940 --> 01:07:17.339 using a different thing to look right 01:07:17.339 --> 01:07:19.260 um and I don't mean it it's hard 01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:21.180 language is hard because I don't even 01:07:21.180 --> 01:07:24.140 mean it's a thing 01:07:24.359 --> 01:07:26.460 um but we're exercising 01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:29.000 something else and 01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:33.020 what and so Marie 01:07:33.020 --> 01:07:36.359 uh was very good at noticing even the 01:07:36.359 --> 01:07:38.039 oscillation is a movement it's a 01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:42.539 movement from attending to this to 01:07:42.539 --> 01:07:45.720 whatever that is that is trying to 01:07:45.720 --> 01:07:47.579 figure out what's doing the attending 01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:51.900 okay so the the basic muscle we're using 01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:53.700 is this 01:07:53.700 --> 01:07:57.240 muscle that moves uh that's trying to 01:07:57.240 --> 01:07:59.579 solve uh 01:07:59.579 --> 01:08:02.220 the instruction 01:08:02.220 --> 01:08:06.180 we don't know what what will satisfy 01:08:06.180 --> 01:08:07.319 we're just 01:08:07.319 --> 01:08:10.200 moving around until we find something 01:08:10.200 --> 01:08:12.180 that satisfies and no one's been 01:08:12.180 --> 01:08:14.160 satisfied right no it's like it's 01:08:14.160 --> 01:08:16.799 impossible I'm in a maze no one's been 01:08:16.799 --> 01:08:20.819 satisfied uh uh by their experience 01:08:20.819 --> 01:08:24.839 which is good so 01:08:24.839 --> 01:08:28.319 some things if you the if you practice 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:29.400 this 01:08:29.400 --> 01:08:34.319 that are very subtle one is is that 01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:36.799 foreign 01:08:37.699 --> 01:08:41.339 is is that in order to do the exercise 01:08:41.339 --> 01:08:43.920 we end we 01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:48.839 enter in a we enter in a mental model 01:08:48.839 --> 01:08:52.560 so there is a subtle imputation of a 01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:55.319 mental model so what I mean by this this 01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:57.420 notion is that the thing that's looking 01:08:57.420 --> 01:08:59.880 is behind the other thing 01:08:59.880 --> 01:09:03.299 right it's cross-modal metaphor it's a 01:09:03.299 --> 01:09:05.160 mental model right 01:09:05.160 --> 01:09:07.440 I mean I get it that's how we relate to 01:09:07.440 --> 01:09:10.620 it but you can understand we take a 01:09:10.620 --> 01:09:14.400 relationship from the external world we 01:09:14.400 --> 01:09:18.359 create a metaphor that it must be behind 01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:19.319 it 01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:22.500 because if I'm ahead of you I can't look 01:09:22.500 --> 01:09:24.420 at you so the thing doing the looking 01:09:24.420 --> 01:09:26.160 must be behind 01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:29.040 so we've entered a simulation does that 01:09:29.040 --> 01:09:30.000 make sense 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.400 we're already in a mental simulation 01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:34.920 based on Cross modal synthesis of 01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:38.000 concrete reality 01:09:39.480 --> 01:09:41.940 in here in this simulation we're trying 01:09:41.940 --> 01:09:45.420 to look for something and if we find 01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:48.719 something likely in a simulation what 01:09:48.719 --> 01:09:50.819 must it be 01:09:50.819 --> 01:09:53.520 a simulation 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:56.239 right so some people I say to them 01:09:56.239 --> 01:09:59.580 what's doing the looking 01:09:59.580 --> 01:10:04.980 and they experience the thing that's so 01:10:04.980 --> 01:10:06.360 when you're looking you might have 01:10:06.360 --> 01:10:08.460 noticed you go here you go here you go 01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:10.800 here your eyes are actually looking 01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:13.860 around your tensions moving around as if 01:10:13.860 --> 01:10:18.120 you're in a box looking for something 01:10:18.120 --> 01:10:21.719 um so these kinds of instructions tend 01:10:21.719 --> 01:10:25.199 to make you think that what you find is 01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:27.840 reified because you're already in a 01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.120 simulation 01:10:30.120 --> 01:10:31.920 um so some people think oh my God the 01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:34.920 thing that's looking is awareness 01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.460 um and uh and the it's not a thing it's 01:10:38.460 --> 01:10:40.620 it's you've created 01:10:40.620 --> 01:10:43.199 in your simulation you've created the 01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.420 thing that's looking 01:10:45.420 --> 01:10:48.300 you've simulated the man behind the 01:10:48.300 --> 01:10:50.300 curtain 01:10:50.300 --> 01:10:52.980 uh so 01:10:52.980 --> 01:10:55.860 um the first order simulation is is okay 01:10:55.860 --> 01:10:57.659 I mean 01:10:57.659 --> 01:10:59.580 when we do mental 01:10:59.580 --> 01:11:01.920 uh 01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:04.020 um work we have to enter simulation 01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:06.900 because it's mental work right I have to 01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:08.940 simulate if I'm trying to calculate if 01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:10.800 I'm trying to write the alphabet 01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:12.900 backwards I have to run a simulation 01:11:12.900 --> 01:11:15.659 where I see a z and then a y and x so we 01:11:15.659 --> 01:11:17.460 know we can simulate our environment 01:11:17.460 --> 01:11:20.520 this is not exceptional other animals 01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:23.960 can stimulate an environment 01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:26.820 um 01:11:26.820 --> 01:11:29.520 then we have linguistic convention that 01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.580 if something is aware then if there's a 01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:34.560 is there if there's a verb happening 01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:36.360 this experiencing 01:11:36.360 --> 01:11:38.580 we have a linguistic convention that 01:11:38.580 --> 01:11:40.800 it's not possible for there not to be a 01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:43.199 subject of that verb that's also very 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:45.620 difficult 01:11:45.659 --> 01:11:48.420 modern Neuroscience tells us and it's 01:11:48.420 --> 01:11:50.520 really cool it's getting it's very hard 01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:53.520 for us to so you see this you see this 01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:55.760 conversation in the neurosciences 01:11:55.760 --> 01:11:58.140 philosophy of Neuroscience 01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:01.560 and so for example 01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.699 um if I move my hand 01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:07.739 and I'm aware I've moved my hand are 01:12:07.739 --> 01:12:09.900 those two different things 01:12:09.900 --> 01:12:13.199 and it's actually the second thing I'm 01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:16.320 aware of moving my hand if it's it if 01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:19.260 it's reflective this is what Claudia 01:12:19.260 --> 01:12:22.679 said could be behind the action 01:12:22.679 --> 01:12:26.400 um if somebody says well you know if I 01:12:26.400 --> 01:12:29.699 can't if I sat you know so 01:12:29.699 --> 01:12:31.140 so 01:12:31.140 --> 01:12:34.199 how you know have feeling a sensation 01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:36.300 and The Sensation are the same thing 01:12:36.300 --> 01:12:38.820 being aware of the sensation and The 01:12:38.820 --> 01:12:42.000 Sensation are the same thing 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:45.900 if a surgeon Cuts me I don't have it's 01:12:45.900 --> 01:12:48.719 not that I'm not 01:12:48.719 --> 01:12:51.480 there's a sensation and I'm not aware of 01:12:51.480 --> 01:12:52.260 it 01:12:52.260 --> 01:12:55.620 there's just not the sensation there's a 01:12:55.620 --> 01:12:57.360 sensation and the awareness of a 01:12:57.360 --> 01:13:00.600 sensation are the same thing you can't 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:03.000 have a sensation over here and then not 01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:05.159 be aware of it 01:13:05.159 --> 01:13:07.620 it's this need for us to put a subject 01:13:07.620 --> 01:13:09.060 in an object 01:13:09.060 --> 01:13:11.219 always at the same time 01:13:11.219 --> 01:13:15.000 but awareness moves around so if if I'm 01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:17.820 aware of over here I might not be aware 01:13:17.820 --> 01:13:19.800 of that 01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:23.159 um so so these are are 01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:25.440 um some of the things that come up in 01:13:25.440 --> 01:13:27.780 this conversation 01:13:27.780 --> 01:13:29.900 um 01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:33.659 and now what we understand and you know 01:13:33.659 --> 01:13:35.880 this is just the first module but we're 01:13:35.880 --> 01:13:38.040 trying to put the Mind back into the 01:13:38.040 --> 01:13:42.440 body and the body in back into nature 01:13:44.060 --> 01:13:48.120 what we do that other animals this is 01:13:48.120 --> 01:13:52.080 one of the things that is exceptional is 01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:55.860 not that we are aware of awareness 01:13:55.860 --> 01:13:59.400 this is this this is what you all were 01:13:59.400 --> 01:14:02.219 very good at not saying I'm aware of 01:14:02.219 --> 01:14:04.560 awareness 01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:06.679 um 01:14:08.280 --> 01:14:11.340 what but so a lot of things times in 01:14:11.340 --> 01:14:14.219 these these the the conclusions is what 01:14:14.219 --> 01:14:15.780 separates us from the other animals is 01:14:15.780 --> 01:14:18.360 that we're aware of awareness which is 01:14:18.360 --> 01:14:20.940 not true and it's not true that the 01:14:20.940 --> 01:14:22.920 other animals are not aware because they 01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:25.980 have Sensations and it's the same thing 01:14:25.980 --> 01:14:29.100 but what is true is that we simulate 01:14:29.100 --> 01:14:32.520 ourselves in our minds 01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:35.100 so not only can we simulate environments 01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:37.080 like other animals and then simulate 01:14:37.080 --> 01:14:40.199 imaginative things and simulate all 01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:42.960 kinds of stories and narratives we 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:45.490 simulate ourselves in our mind 01:14:45.490 --> 01:14:46.640 [Music] 01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:49.140 and then we say that's the thing that's 01:14:49.140 --> 01:14:50.219 aware 01:14:50.219 --> 01:14:52.620 it's like a little homunculus 01:14:52.620 --> 01:14:55.199 that we've simulated in our mind we 01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:57.239 virtualized the subject object 01:14:57.239 --> 01:15:00.000 relationship between ourselves and the 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:02.280 world with a 01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:04.820 subject object 01:15:04.820 --> 01:15:07.380 relationship to 01:15:07.380 --> 01:15:10.560 thoughts in our head our simulations 01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:12.960 and we conclude that there's something 01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:16.739 that's aware of all these things 01:15:16.739 --> 01:15:18.960 so it's like a second or third order 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:21.719 simulation 01:15:21.719 --> 01:15:22.320 um 01:15:22.320 --> 01:15:24.540 and this makes us human 01:15:24.540 --> 01:15:29.580 and actually creates all kinds of yeah 01:15:29.580 --> 01:15:33.659 so let language which is first 01:15:33.659 --> 01:15:36.380 that we have a subject object language 01:15:36.380 --> 01:15:39.120 or we have this subject object 01:15:39.120 --> 01:15:41.900 simulation they kind of like 01:15:41.900 --> 01:15:45.120 co-rise and then and then 01:15:45.120 --> 01:15:48.360 um make and and then and then amplify 01:15:48.360 --> 01:15:50.460 each other you know 01:15:50.460 --> 01:15:52.199 um so 01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:53.100 um 01:15:53.100 --> 01:15:56.699 some people say in the in the in like in 01:15:56.699 --> 01:15:58.500 the navajos and some of the Tibetan 01:15:58.500 --> 01:16:00.659 languages they have verb languages and 01:16:00.659 --> 01:16:02.400 they actually don't have the same 01:16:02.400 --> 01:16:04.620 simulation 01:16:04.620 --> 01:16:05.159 um 01:16:05.159 --> 01:16:07.020 I think 01:16:07.020 --> 01:16:09.480 didn't start with language I think it 01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:11.699 started with the axial age when we could 01:16:11.699 --> 01:16:13.199 think with thoughts in our head and then 01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:17.280 we started simulating and language got 01:16:17.280 --> 01:16:21.300 subject you know it's both neither of 01:16:21.300 --> 01:16:22.980 them help us 01:16:22.980 --> 01:16:24.540 that's why we can't talk about it 01:16:24.540 --> 01:16:26.159 because even if I talk about it if I say 01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:30.659 what is that which what is that that is 01:16:30.659 --> 01:16:32.340 aware I can't ask the question without 01:16:32.340 --> 01:16:34.920 without positing a subject as if there's 01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:37.560 something something there 01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:38.520 um 01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:42.179 um but uh 01:16:42.179 --> 01:16:45.540 yeah but we also so we simulate our 01:16:45.540 --> 01:16:47.460 selves in our mind 01:16:47.460 --> 01:16:50.659 and if we're not aware of the simulation 01:16:50.659 --> 01:16:55.640 and most people in the world uh live in 01:16:55.640 --> 01:16:57.199 the 01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:01.260 live inside live from the person they've 01:17:01.260 --> 01:17:03.060 simulated in their mind and from the 01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:06.659 reality that they've simulated around it 01:17:06.659 --> 01:17:09.000 um and 01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:11.060 um 01:17:11.460 --> 01:17:13.199 because and then they give it a 01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:15.239 narrative structure in all this and so 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:18.420 this is the concept of 01:17:18.420 --> 01:17:22.760 um of samsara in Buddhism 01:17:23.580 --> 01:17:24.960 um 01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:28.440 etc etc so just being aware I think you 01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:30.719 all shook your head you know that just 01:17:30.719 --> 01:17:32.880 to get into the game you have to enter a 01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:36.780 simulation so whatever you find uh will 01:17:36.780 --> 01:17:40.080 be uh something that's simulated in your 01:17:40.080 --> 01:17:41.400 mind 01:17:41.400 --> 01:17:43.140 um and some of you had great things like 01:17:43.140 --> 01:17:46.199 I'm in a maze you know that that was a 01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:48.840 a metaphorical Creation in your mind but 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:51.360 some people sometimes in certain things 01:17:51.360 --> 01:17:52.980 say 01:17:52.980 --> 01:17:55.560 you know I see admire 01:17:55.560 --> 01:17:58.199 you know the witness I found the witness 01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:00.659 I discovered the witness the witness is 01:18:00.659 --> 01:18:01.920 something that's 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:04.560 somehow in the 01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:07.320 as a little reified thing 01:18:07.320 --> 01:18:10.080 that's very special 01:18:10.080 --> 01:18:11.940 um 01:18:11.940 --> 01:18:13.860 etc etc 01:18:13.860 --> 01:18:16.199 so to me to understand what you're 01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:18.840 saying is giving us freedom 01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:20.340 I mean to understand that we're 01:18:20.340 --> 01:18:23.420 simulating all this 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:27.480 yeah and also though to 01:18:27.480 --> 01:18:29.100 um yeah I mean knowing that you 01:18:29.100 --> 01:18:31.739 simulated and getting out of the Trap of 01:18:31.739 --> 01:18:34.199 simulation is 01:18:34.199 --> 01:18:38.820 uh two different two different things so 01:18:38.820 --> 01:18:40.820 um 01:18:43.739 --> 01:18:46.440 I think you're reminded of of a pretty 01:18:46.440 --> 01:18:49.800 uh a number of pretty good games we can 01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:52.500 play with ourselves to get a kind of a 01:18:52.500 --> 01:18:55.739 simulation that's for 01:18:55.739 --> 01:18:58.560 satisfactory 01:18:58.560 --> 01:18:59.719 um 01:18:59.719 --> 01:19:03.300 and and I mean for for me 01:19:03.300 --> 01:19:04.980 um 01:19:04.980 --> 01:19:08.699 being okay with in the second time it 01:19:08.699 --> 01:19:11.580 being a really quite okay with that 01:19:11.580 --> 01:19:14.640 there was no it that is it 01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:15.540 um 01:19:15.540 --> 01:19:19.380 that felt really so good and so but to 01:19:19.380 --> 01:19:21.480 get there I needed to follow the game I 01:19:21.480 --> 01:19:24.840 needed to enter the simulation 01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:27.179 um I needed to enter the simulation so 01:19:27.179 --> 01:19:29.400 much so that it was not a simulation 01:19:29.400 --> 01:19:31.080 anymore 01:19:31.080 --> 01:19:34.080 um to then find this sense of pervasive 01:19:34.080 --> 01:19:36.480 sense of well-being 01:19:36.480 --> 01:19:37.140 um 01:19:37.140 --> 01:19:40.500 which I call the Continuum yeah 01:19:40.500 --> 01:19:43.560 because that continues so that continues 01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:47.340 whatever but anyway so that's an 01:19:47.340 --> 01:19:49.679 abstraction we run this simulation so 01:19:49.679 --> 01:19:52.260 that we can be aware of it we can be 01:19:52.260 --> 01:19:54.600 aware of our Jam boards and we can be 01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:57.000 aware of a lot of simulations and 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.580 simulations are useful 01:19:59.580 --> 01:20:01.640 um 01:20:02.280 --> 01:20:04.260 and then 01:20:04.260 --> 01:20:06.360 it gets you know you can play around 01:20:06.360 --> 01:20:08.219 with this for a lot because some people 01:20:08.219 --> 01:20:10.620 have existential crises when they 01:20:10.620 --> 01:20:14.040 realize there's nothing behind that 01:20:14.040 --> 01:20:17.219 and so they call it you know the void or 01:20:17.219 --> 01:20:20.480 something but but 01:20:20.480 --> 01:20:22.320 the 01:20:22.320 --> 01:20:24.600 the conclusion there's nothing behind 01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:27.840 that is is in a simulation 01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:32.360 behind behind what it's it's it's 01:20:32.360 --> 01:20:36.239 it's it's like watching a movie and 01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:37.860 being so attached to one of the 01:20:37.860 --> 01:20:40.020 characters that died that you never want 01:20:40.020 --> 01:20:43.020 to live anymore and you know it's like 01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:45.239 okay well it was fun to play the game 01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:47.699 but uh 01:20:47.699 --> 01:20:49.380 um 01:20:49.380 --> 01:20:51.620 you know 01:20:51.620 --> 01:20:55.020 forget and you forget that the game 01:20:55.020 --> 01:20:56.580 itself was 01:20:56.580 --> 01:20:59.159 simulated so this this is something to 01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:03.020 really pay attention to because 01:21:04.739 --> 01:21:06.960 there's a lot of 01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:09.540 um religious revivalism happening in the 01:21:09.540 --> 01:21:11.760 world because because as the world gets 01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:13.560 really bad that's one of our go-to 01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.020 things so you have a lot of young people 01:21:16.020 --> 01:21:19.080 going back to Christianity and and this 01:21:19.080 --> 01:21:22.280 is all all okay as long as we understand 01:21:22.280 --> 01:21:25.380 the power of the imagination in the 01:21:25.380 --> 01:21:28.440 power of ritual on the power of these 01:21:28.440 --> 01:21:32.280 things without reifying 01:21:32.280 --> 01:21:34.620 um the metaphysical implications that 01:21:34.620 --> 01:21:36.719 may be served along with it because if 01:21:36.719 --> 01:21:38.460 we do that we'll just have religious 01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:43.500 wars again without a doubt because 01:21:43.500 --> 01:21:46.320 um you know people will die for family 01:21:46.320 --> 01:21:49.199 and Country and their god 01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:53.340 um and so understanding the power of 01:21:53.340 --> 01:21:55.980 ritual understanding the power of the 01:21:55.980 --> 01:21:59.580 imagination understanding 01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:02.340 even the power of simulation and 01:22:02.340 --> 01:22:03.780 creating 01:22:03.780 --> 01:22:04.560 um 01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:08.159 liminal spaces that these are powerful 01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:09.739 and liberating 01:22:09.739 --> 01:22:13.679 experiences but not to reify them 01:22:13.679 --> 01:22:15.020 metaphysical 01:22:15.020 --> 01:22:18.360 interpretation yes it's Poetics and 01:22:18.360 --> 01:22:22.440 lyrics it's not prose and explanatory 01:22:22.440 --> 01:22:24.960 texts 01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:25.500 um 01:22:25.500 --> 01:22:29.840 and yes perfect Holly 01:22:29.940 --> 01:22:32.219 yeah I mean I was just like feeling into 01:22:32.219 --> 01:22:34.560 what you're saying is kind of radical 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:36.719 with this the simulation because it sort 01:22:36.719 --> 01:22:38.340 of implies and there's a lot more agency 01:22:38.340 --> 01:22:41.400 and maybe that we realize we have 01:22:41.400 --> 01:22:43.380 in the game and so I was also wondering 01:22:43.380 --> 01:22:45.540 if you could speak to the limitations 01:22:45.540 --> 01:22:48.120 too like like you're talking we talk 01:22:48.120 --> 01:22:49.860 about the stubbornness of reality like 01:22:49.860 --> 01:22:51.719 we're in this game and we have probably 01:22:51.719 --> 01:22:53.820 a lot more agency than we realize and 01:22:53.820 --> 01:22:55.560 how to play it but then there's 01:22:55.560 --> 01:22:57.960 obviously rules and boundaries 01:22:57.960 --> 01:22:58.800 um 01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:01.140 in that 01:23:01.140 --> 01:23:04.020 yeah so that's an interesting question 01:23:04.020 --> 01:23:07.080 it's like when you walk around and you 01:23:07.080 --> 01:23:09.179 notice that most people are in a 01:23:09.179 --> 01:23:11.520 simulation 01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:14.880 what advantage and I don't mean it in a 01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:19.199 trivial way and even what what benefit 01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:22.860 how can I use that uh to be a benefit so 01:23:22.860 --> 01:23:24.719 it's what we talked about before it's a 01:23:24.719 --> 01:23:27.120 hard constraint most people are running 01:23:27.120 --> 01:23:29.340 simulations 01:23:29.340 --> 01:23:31.500 um if I can avoid running a simulation 01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:34.080 it's probably not possible I mean we 01:23:34.080 --> 01:23:36.380 have to run some simulations just like 01:23:36.380 --> 01:23:39.540 animals do but these kind of simulations 01:23:39.540 --> 01:23:42.659 that get you if I can avoid that is it 01:23:42.659 --> 01:23:45.840 possible for me then to have agency 01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:49.580 that's beneficial not only over myself 01:23:49.580 --> 01:23:54.480 but over many of the diluted people 01:23:54.480 --> 01:23:59.940 um that's an interesting question uh 01:24:02.100 --> 01:24:05.540 there's different people 01:24:05.699 --> 01:24:08.340 you know if you saw the Atlantic article 01:24:08.340 --> 01:24:11.340 with sorio floral at Maple 01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:14.159 um this is basically his 01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:17.400 uh life's goal now is that people are 01:24:17.400 --> 01:24:20.520 running simulations chat GPT large 01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:23.640 language modules are going to take 01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:25.679 advantage of people running simulations 01:24:25.679 --> 01:24:27.780 because they simulate people talking to 01:24:27.780 --> 01:24:30.320 you and uh 01:24:30.320 --> 01:24:32.040 and 01:24:32.040 --> 01:24:35.219 um so if you can train people on large 01:24:35.219 --> 01:24:38.580 language modules and make them do good 01:24:38.580 --> 01:24:40.440 things rather than 01:24:40.440 --> 01:24:43.739 follow capitalist values uh maybe this 01:24:43.739 --> 01:24:46.320 is something we should do 01:24:46.320 --> 01:24:48.380 um 01:24:49.080 --> 01:24:52.800 not I don't really enjoy that level of 01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:55.620 strategic strategy but 01:24:55.620 --> 01:24:56.699 um 01:24:56.699 --> 01:24:58.739 a lot of this is being talked about it 01:24:58.739 --> 01:25:04.920 was just in a retreat that was quite odd 01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:06.600 um 01:25:06.600 --> 01:25:10.920 about uh creating new religions to save 01:25:10.920 --> 01:25:13.140 the world uh 01:25:13.140 --> 01:25:15.000 yeah 01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:17.760 um there's a lot of this going on right 01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:19.920 now I think it's fine that it goes on 01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:23.580 it's just it's just not I mean a lot of 01:25:23.580 --> 01:25:25.760 people are trying a lot of things to 01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:29.719 mitigate the meta crisis 01:25:31.140 --> 01:25:33.739 laughs 01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:37.140 I find the the notion that we are 01:25:37.140 --> 01:25:40.500 simulating things just it's fun I think 01:25:40.500 --> 01:25:42.960 it's fun I mean I thought this is what 01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:45.239 came to mind what do Consciousness have 01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:48.120 in mind why creating having us create 01:25:48.120 --> 01:25:50.460 simulations why is that and the fun oh 01:25:50.460 --> 01:25:52.800 that in mind is a simulation too I just 01:25:52.800 --> 01:25:54.600 think that's funny I just think the 01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:56.400 whole thing is fascinating and worth 01:25:56.400 --> 01:25:59.760 playing with yeah 01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:04.100 I want to add something um 01:26:05.340 --> 01:26:08.760 the the idea that their simulation upon 01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:10.380 simulation upon simulation and that 01:26:10.380 --> 01:26:12.000 we're all doing it and what is there 01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:13.980 without simulation and you mentioned the 01:26:13.980 --> 01:26:14.940 void 01:26:14.940 --> 01:26:17.639 and it seems like there's the there's 01:26:17.639 --> 01:26:19.199 the track of the void and then there's 01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:21.179 the track of 01:26:21.179 --> 01:26:23.340 um participation a participatory 01:26:23.340 --> 01:26:27.360 Universe a relational sort of in essence 01:26:27.360 --> 01:26:30.659 that there is a relationality 01:26:30.659 --> 01:26:31.920 um 01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:33.800 and um 01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:35.760 that's and that's more of a 01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:37.620 judeo-christian even though that gets 01:26:37.620 --> 01:26:41.699 caught into you know a story about a uh 01:26:41.699 --> 01:26:43.679 all sorts of stories 01:26:43.679 --> 01:26:46.620 um that are limiting and maybe even 01:26:46.620 --> 01:26:49.679 manipulative but the idea that there's a 01:26:49.679 --> 01:26:52.620 relationality at the core 01:26:52.620 --> 01:26:56.219 in life and and for me like the idea of 01:26:56.219 --> 01:26:59.219 the arousal when you said 01:26:59.219 --> 01:27:01.320 um you know we're stuck in the sensory 01:27:01.320 --> 01:27:04.260 mode or arousal satisfaction Motif well 01:27:04.260 --> 01:27:06.780 what if what if the censoring motor 01:27:06.780 --> 01:27:08.639 explo 01:27:08.639 --> 01:27:10.020 um 01:27:10.020 --> 01:27:13.560 experience of that is just an outplaying 01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:17.580 of something prior which is an a basic 01:27:17.580 --> 01:27:22.199 arousal but nature that has to do with 01:27:22.199 --> 01:27:23.880 um our relationality 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:26.840 and um and I do not have 01:27:26.840 --> 01:27:29.520 metaphysical training to talk about that 01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:35.480 except that for me the experience 01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:40.100 of life as being 01:27:40.159 --> 01:27:42.719 participatory and 01:27:42.719 --> 01:27:46.739 um personal on some level 01:27:46.739 --> 01:27:49.460 uh 01:27:51.120 --> 01:27:53.900 has 01:27:57.960 --> 01:28:01.560 more mystery to it and more aliveness to 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:04.739 it than the idea that okay there's that 01:28:04.739 --> 01:28:07.139 and then that's a limited simulation and 01:28:07.139 --> 01:28:09.239 beyond that there's the void and I don't 01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:11.400 know so 01:28:11.400 --> 01:28:13.920 I think this word mystery I think that 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:15.840 was close to what mushin was saying I 01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:17.699 just feel really good it's unanswerable 01:28:17.699 --> 01:28:19.920 and that's the word we use for that 01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:22.739 feeling like the void is a word that I 01:28:22.739 --> 01:28:25.380 use for like that doesn't feel good but 01:28:25.380 --> 01:28:27.540 if you say beyond that it's just mystery 01:28:27.540 --> 01:28:30.360 then then I get that kind of happiness 01:28:30.360 --> 01:28:33.480 that Justin has like it's a mystery why 01:28:33.480 --> 01:28:35.940 we simulate and it's like it's it's 01:28:35.940 --> 01:28:37.980 fascinating 01:28:37.980 --> 01:28:42.060 um uh but I think for for our project 01:28:42.060 --> 01:28:47.460 here is to is to notice that 01:28:47.460 --> 01:28:50.639 um we've already situated this capacity 01:28:50.639 --> 01:28:52.679 in the ant you know the sensory motor 01:28:52.679 --> 01:28:54.540 and it's consistent with the animals 01:28:54.540 --> 01:28:57.600 although we don't animals don't seem to 01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:02.580 uh simulate themselves uh which we do 01:29:02.580 --> 01:29:05.820 um and uh 01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:08.040 just building this thread all the way 01:29:08.040 --> 01:29:10.940 down into into the natural environment 01:29:10.940 --> 01:29:14.040 uh is 01:29:14.040 --> 01:29:14.820 um 01:29:14.820 --> 01:29:17.340 is part of our project 01:29:17.340 --> 01:29:20.520 um that even these most sacred cows 01:29:20.520 --> 01:29:23.580 about how we are separate 01:29:23.580 --> 01:29:26.880 um are are not that you know they're 01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:28.199 they're different and degree not 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:34.400 different and kind uh from from uh 01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:37.500 from other beings that we know in the 01:29:37.500 --> 01:29:38.900 world and 01:29:38.900 --> 01:29:42.239 props beings that we will encounter in 01:29:42.239 --> 01:29:44.100 the future 01:29:44.100 --> 01:29:45.900 so 01:29:45.900 --> 01:29:48.300 um yeah 01:29:48.300 --> 01:29:51.780 um these little exercises are not easy 01:29:51.780 --> 01:29:54.000 for people to do 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:57.659 um I'm channeling I think uh 01:29:57.659 --> 01:30:00.440 uh 01:30:01.620 --> 01:30:03.179 someone 01:30:03.179 --> 01:30:04.199 um 01:30:04.199 --> 01:30:06.480 you know it's not like you can go and 01:30:06.480 --> 01:30:08.280 just have tea and crumpets with your 01:30:08.280 --> 01:30:10.739 friends and ask them to meditate on 01:30:10.739 --> 01:30:13.260 their breath and ask them 01:30:13.260 --> 01:30:15.540 how they can be aware of awareness you 01:30:15.540 --> 01:30:17.400 know and 01:30:17.400 --> 01:30:18.120 um 01:30:18.120 --> 01:30:21.179 so just just it's you know this is 01:30:21.179 --> 01:30:23.219 meditation and action these little games 01:30:23.219 --> 01:30:26.699 are building a metacognitive skills and 01:30:26.699 --> 01:30:28.620 and different types of 01:30:28.620 --> 01:30:30.780 subtle awareness with a lot of 01:30:30.780 --> 01:30:33.239 Distinction making and 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:36.960 um yeah and it you know at this stage 01:30:36.960 --> 01:30:39.120 when it seems somewhat easy to you don't 01:30:39.120 --> 01:30:41.340 don't forget how 01:30:41.340 --> 01:30:44.280 how extraordinary actually this kind of 01:30:44.280 --> 01:30:48.080 attention attention is 01:30:48.179 --> 01:30:51.239 and Liz's dog is no longer a puppy I 01:30:51.239 --> 01:30:52.940 noticed 01:30:52.940 --> 01:30:55.219 how did that happen 01:30:55.219 --> 01:30:57.900 first I thought you had someone's your 01:30:57.900 --> 01:31:01.280 friend's dog and I'm like no 01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:06.139 any other comments before we go 01:31:06.139 --> 01:31:08.940 I guess I just want to offer into the 01:31:08.940 --> 01:31:11.940 space based on Phoebe's share I'm doing 01:31:11.940 --> 01:31:13.560 um breaker for artists right now with 01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:16.080 Rich Blundell and so coming into his 01:31:16.080 --> 01:31:18.000 work about how if you go back to the 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:20.040 very origin of all things it's 01:31:20.040 --> 01:31:23.280 relationship that's everything that that 01:31:23.280 --> 01:31:26.820 exists comes out of relationship so 01:31:26.820 --> 01:31:29.340 whether it's simulations in the space or 01:31:29.340 --> 01:31:30.840 whatever if that's 01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:32.880 Behavior yeah 01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:35.159 yeah around you know a relationship 01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:37.820 arousal this 01:31:38.580 --> 01:31:41.460 so they if you weren't aroused and and 01:31:41.460 --> 01:31:43.920 uh how can you avoid relationships if 01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.380 you are aroused so the energy in 01:31:46.380 --> 01:31:48.540 relationship 01:31:48.540 --> 01:31:50.699 excellent I mean there's other things to 01:31:50.699 --> 01:31:53.760 talk about uh with this but I think we 01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:57.060 did really good with the exercise and uh 01:31:57.060 --> 01:31:58.560 hopefully 01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.500 some new insights will happen 01:32:01.500 --> 01:32:02.340 um 01:32:02.340 --> 01:32:05.760 for you this weekend thank you so much 01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:08.460 thanks everyone fantastic 01:32:08.460 --> 01:32:10.760 thank you thank ## Cohort 2 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:09.800 so what does the song Say 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:13.139 centini sentience of internal external 00:00:13.139 --> 00:00:16.980 and virtual existence 00:00:16.980 --> 00:00:19.920 um it's a pretty good description of 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.920 uh what we're after 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:24.980 of course it's a total techno 00:00:24.980 --> 00:00:28.260 technophile uh you know 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:28.980 um 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:31.740 band and they're into transhumanism and 00:00:31.740 --> 00:00:34.079 everything so maybe there is some 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:36.300 tension there but I kind of like the 00:00:36.300 --> 00:00:38.540 song 00:00:40.260 --> 00:00:44.520 okay uh let's start with how you so 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.940 I never remember your actual name but 00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:49.200 um 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:51.300 that was it yeah okay 00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:52.500 so 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:55.800 um are there any uh 00:00:55.800 --> 00:00:58.680 questions or thoughts that have 00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:02.280 percolated uh from the previous session 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:05.880 just a couple of you were on it uh that 00:01:05.880 --> 00:01:09.960 we might want to open the space with 00:01:09.960 --> 00:01:10.979 um 00:01:10.979 --> 00:01:14.360 before we get started 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.759 well I'll just say that it feels like in 00:01:32.759 --> 00:01:35.040 the breakouts and the exercises we were 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.180 doing and just in the content itself 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:42.900 that we're trying to come into contact 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:47.780 with something that's very slippery yeah 00:01:47.939 --> 00:01:50.579 like trying to 00:01:50.579 --> 00:01:55.020 pick up jello with with uh Chopsticks or 00:01:55.020 --> 00:01:57.299 something yeah of course we're looking 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:00.240 at so we've gotten to be we're working 00:02:00.240 --> 00:02:03.720 with very subtle phenomenon and you all 00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:06.060 are getting really good at it I tried to 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:08.520 reflect that back to you but it's very 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:10.319 very subtle phenomenon that we're 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.140 working with so 00:02:13.140 --> 00:02:13.920 um 00:02:13.920 --> 00:02:16.140 um just join the process this from first 00:02:16.140 --> 00:02:18.180 personal experience 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:20.040 um I am going to start today with a 00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:22.080 little presentation 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.140 um 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.620 uh just to frame some things and then 00:02:28.620 --> 00:02:31.379 we'll do versions of the experience the 00:02:31.379 --> 00:02:34.680 meditation that we did last time but yes 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.819 what we're after is very subtle and 00:02:38.819 --> 00:02:41.400 um as we noticed last time what just 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.680 happened oh well as we noticed last time 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.160 what we're after might actually not 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:49.319 exist in the way we think it exists 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.920 right so we're all open to be surprised 00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:56.819 just like when we did the memory 00:02:56.819 --> 00:02:58.920 um module we were kind of surprised 00:02:58.920 --> 00:03:02.819 about how memory was and wasn't 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:03.720 um 00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:06.900 so um depending upon your background if 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:09.959 you're completely naive uh it may not be 00:03:09.959 --> 00:03:12.060 a surprise what we're going to do if 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:13.680 you've how many of you have ever done 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:18.599 like awareness of awareness uh workshops 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:20.540 um depending upon 00:03:20.540 --> 00:03:24.180 how rarefied 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:27.360 um they make the experience 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:28.159 um 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.819 will set up uh kind of a background for 00:03:32.819 --> 00:03:34.980 your experience today but 00:03:34.980 --> 00:03:37.080 um yeah it's very slippery 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:40.140 and it's one of those things like trying 00:03:40.140 --> 00:03:43.920 to catch yourself in a dream because if 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:46.500 you look too hard you lose it and if you 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:49.379 don't concentrate enough you lose it and 00:03:49.379 --> 00:03:51.420 so it's kind of we use the term 00:03:51.420 --> 00:03:53.640 oscillation 00:03:53.640 --> 00:03:55.159 um last time 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.680 I also use the term toggling but this 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:01.739 notion of slippery slippery 00:04:01.739 --> 00:04:03.180 trying to catch something that's 00:04:03.180 --> 00:04:05.659 slippery 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.799 um yeah so I'm just going to do a little 00:04:07.799 --> 00:04:10.260 presentation to kind of set it up in a 00:04:10.260 --> 00:04:12.180 little different way 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.580 um and uh 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.280 well I have to do this first 00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:20.040 if that's okay with you 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:22.160 um 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:29.780 oh because I'm not on that okay 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.940 all right so it's very hard to 00:04:32.940 --> 00:04:35.460 um illustrate this stuff 00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:38.120 uh 00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:42.300 uh but I drew this picture by hand and 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:46.800 then I reproduced God hide those I I 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.080 drew this picture by hand and then I 00:04:49.080 --> 00:04:51.900 tried to reproduce it here 00:04:51.900 --> 00:04:55.259 what we what we're looking at here 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:58.259 um is 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.840 just a model so down here we have 00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:05.220 completely automatic experience 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:11.340 um you know so a rabbit or a 00:05:11.340 --> 00:05:14.759 if you're in the Flow State 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.400 um just automatic experience without any 00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:21.360 reflexive awareness no awareness of that 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:23.340 experience and certainly no awareness of 00:05:23.340 --> 00:05:27.900 awareness so just automatic experience 00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:30.720 then we we talked about reflexivity last 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.240 time it's in the course content as not 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:35.340 being after the fact we're not 00:05:35.340 --> 00:05:37.620 reflecting on something after the fact 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:41.340 but we're aware in the moment of what's 00:05:41.340 --> 00:05:43.740 going on so 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:46.680 uh dangerous situations if you can stay 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.440 present often are highly reflexive 00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:51.660 because you're watching what the next 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:54.479 move or the person is but you're aware 00:05:54.479 --> 00:05:56.460 of your own balance and what are the 00:05:56.460 --> 00:05:58.860 tools and what do you have at hand maybe 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:00.900 there's a knife over there you're aware 00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:03.300 of that right this is kind of a metaphor 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:05.460 for reflexive awareness you're in the 00:06:05.460 --> 00:06:09.060 present moment you're external sentience 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:13.860 is very uh online but also your internal 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.380 all of it's being processed in real time 00:06:16.380 --> 00:06:18.600 so that's what we mean by reflexive 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:22.199 awareness it's not at all automatic 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:24.080 although 00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:28.560 your final action might be might be 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.479 experienced as automatic but the 00:06:30.479 --> 00:06:33.660 processing of all these things uh 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:35.460 happens at the same time you could think 00:06:35.460 --> 00:06:37.319 of negotiators you know these movies 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.419 where people are negotiating with 00:06:39.419 --> 00:06:41.520 violent criminals and there's a lot 00:06:41.520 --> 00:06:43.080 going on but they're trying to be 00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:45.300 present to the conversation and there's 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:48.360 a lot going on so I guess I'm over 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.180 dramatizing it but but this is this is 00:06:51.180 --> 00:06:54.120 where you can really feel like you know 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:57.300 the need to be reflexively aware 00:06:57.300 --> 00:06:58.139 um 00:06:58.139 --> 00:07:02.100 comes online so reflexive awareness it's 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:04.800 not a meditative state in the sense that 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.139 you're not subtracting thought and 00:07:07.139 --> 00:07:09.120 subtracting 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:09.860 um 00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:14.340 perception you're you're trying to 00:07:14.340 --> 00:07:17.340 widen your cognitive scope to include 00:07:17.340 --> 00:07:19.199 everything in your experience everything 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:20.280 in 00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:24.479 the external ex situation in the context 00:07:24.479 --> 00:07:27.660 that you're in so that's what reflexive 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:31.979 awareness would be like 00:07:31.979 --> 00:07:35.880 and then here we have a poll of 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:38.819 um experiencing things as subjective 00:07:38.819 --> 00:07:41.580 States or experiencing things as 00:07:41.580 --> 00:07:44.039 objective States 00:07:44.039 --> 00:07:47.759 and this is the journey that I find most 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:52.380 people take I can animate it this way uh 00:07:52.380 --> 00:07:56.000 so this is the journey that people take 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.740 uh so you 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:00.960 um in in meditative practices and 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:03.180 contemplative practices and that is at 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:04.020 first 00:08:04.020 --> 00:08:06.539 I mean you know you might 00:08:06.539 --> 00:08:10.440 be quite automatic and in our culture we 00:08:10.440 --> 00:08:11.940 start with 00:08:11.940 --> 00:08:14.160 objective States things are what they 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.660 are the way I perceive things is 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.720 um is the truth of the matter or things 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.240 get to be black and white and then you 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.139 start to realize that there's a 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:29.699 subjective 00:08:29.699 --> 00:08:31.979 content you become aware of the 00:08:31.979 --> 00:08:34.320 subjective biases that you have does 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.300 this does this make sense 00:08:36.300 --> 00:08:38.399 so you start to become aware of the 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:41.159 subjective biases you have and then 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.800 people spend a lot of time there and 00:08:43.800 --> 00:08:48.060 then they end up then saying okay but 00:08:48.060 --> 00:08:50.820 the systems themselves have biases so 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:52.920 then you see that the subjective virus 00:08:52.920 --> 00:08:55.920 as an objective component and then you 00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:58.260 see oh the fact that I see systems this 00:08:58.260 --> 00:09:01.980 way is a kind of education I have 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:04.920 and then you start to see oh education 00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:07.380 itself is an object and you start to see 00:09:07.380 --> 00:09:10.920 education broadly conceived as a thing 00:09:10.920 --> 00:09:14.399 and you become more objective about it 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.920 can you can you can you recognize some 00:09:16.920 --> 00:09:19.560 of your own growth experience in this 00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:21.120 right 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.820 so 00:09:22.820 --> 00:09:27.060 then uh you get over here and you can 00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:31.100 get to be like I would say Charles 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:34.140 eisenstein is kind of here like he used 00:09:34.140 --> 00:09:36.440 to talk about a lot more about science 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.540 and really try to justify 00:09:39.540 --> 00:09:42.720 his position with science and now he's 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:45.839 talking about the reality of aliens and 00:09:45.839 --> 00:09:47.760 uh 00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:50.940 um uh it's I'm not I'm just using this 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:52.920 as an example I don't know for sure but 00:09:52.920 --> 00:09:56.000 you start to see people starting to have 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.800 really profound 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:01.680 um a long-term relationship with what's 00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:03.839 actually happening is just subjective 00:10:03.839 --> 00:10:05.700 phenomenon 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:08.160 um and people spend you know this is a 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:11.160 stage uh model it just seems to be the 00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:13.080 way it is and people spend a lot of time 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.300 thinking we construct reality our 00:10:15.300 --> 00:10:18.779 Consciousness is you know this is uh 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:22.080 conspiracy thinking on the internet once 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.060 people start to realize 00:10:24.060 --> 00:10:26.519 go through this process and start to 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.320 realize the power of the subjective 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.380 component there's a lot of 00:10:31.380 --> 00:10:35.580 a lot of uh 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:37.620 you become it's it's increasing 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:39.000 awareness 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.360 but it becomes trapped in this kind of 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.060 uh 00:10:45.060 --> 00:10:48.360 um cave of subjectivity it can become 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.260 very unnerving uh so then you have the 00:10:52.260 --> 00:10:54.600 transparency of the psyche comes into 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.060 here you go from emotional blending and 00:10:57.060 --> 00:10:59.660 psychosis all I mean by that is like 00:10:59.660 --> 00:11:02.640 conspiracy theories in this and who's 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:05.100 running the show and and then you get 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:08.100 the transparency of the psyche 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:09.300 um 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:13.399 and then if you do vipassana correctly 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.980 you start to witness the phenomenon of 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:19.620 your mind and so has this objective 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.320 quality again like oh look I can just 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.120 see what's happening 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.459 and you have this What's called the 00:11:26.459 --> 00:11:29.339 subject object move what was all the 00:11:29.339 --> 00:11:32.399 subjectivity now you start to see oh all 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:34.680 this is just a simulation I've been 00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:35.579 running 00:11:35.579 --> 00:11:39.959 it's been driving me crazy like but it's 00:11:39.959 --> 00:11:42.899 all thought and it's a simulation and I 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:46.440 can look at the embodied experience of 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:48.779 running a simulation in an objective 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:51.600 fashion so then you uh if you're lucky 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.360 you spend a lot of time in this 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.399 objective but you can get stuck in the 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.440 witness such that you're always just 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:01.920 witnessing what you perceive as 00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:05.120 objective phenomenon 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.200 so this might not make sense to everyone 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.240 because you have to have done some of 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.880 these psychotechnologies 00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:17.279 um but this is a uh uh pretty common 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.940 path and then eventually the self itself 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:23.279 becomes transparent so let's go of the 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:24.300 witness you have a little more 00:12:24.300 --> 00:12:26.820 subjectivity and eventually you just get 00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:29.700 to reflexive awareness which doesn't 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:32.360 oscillate so much 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:36.720 uh it's an ideal uh between subjective 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.720 and objective States 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:45.480 um it's just experience so this is a 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.920 um 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:51.000 kind of an outline of the path of going 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:53.339 from being automatic and basically 00:12:53.339 --> 00:12:55.800 unconscious to 00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:58.980 um a state of reflexive awareness 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:01.560 um but these these wild oscillations in 00:13:01.560 --> 00:13:04.560 these periods of getting 00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:05.940 um certainly getting stuck in 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:08.100 subjectivity just like the scientists 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.279 are stuck in the empirical fallacy and 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.579 objectivity uh people can get deeply 00:13:14.579 --> 00:13:18.180 stuck into uh 00:13:18.180 --> 00:13:20.220 um subjectivity 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:21.360 um 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.260 along this along this route so are there 00:13:25.260 --> 00:13:28.200 any questions is this um is this helpful 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.019 for anyone I mean you have to have done 00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:34.500 some of these psycho psycho Technologies 00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:39.120 um Holly and Kevin hi uh I was just 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.700 wondering how like Pure Imagination 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:45.120 Works in this model or if it is yeah 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.800 where Pure Imagination comes into play 00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:49.459 yeah 00:13:54.959 --> 00:13:58.320 of being imaginative you have is an 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.440 objective phenomenon 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.740 but if you're if you're like when 00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:07.560 imagination becomes completely psychotic 00:14:07.560 --> 00:14:09.420 and you can't tell the difference 00:14:09.420 --> 00:14:11.639 then it's and it's become completely 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:13.100 subjectivity 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:17.639 then you're on the subjectivity part 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.779 um and uh um 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.180 yeah so you just see 00:14:24.180 --> 00:14:26.899 people 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.820 it's a non-linear path and you see 00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:36.120 um it's it seems to me that this is this 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:36.959 is 00:14:36.959 --> 00:14:39.899 how people of our 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:42.420 times uh 00:14:42.420 --> 00:14:45.720 they you you know of our our kind of 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:49.079 larger Community go through it 00:14:49.079 --> 00:14:49.680 um 00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:50.940 yeah 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:53.940 so you would think yeah so 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.060 um 00:14:57.420 --> 00:15:00.060 as we did when we did the imagination we 00:15:00.060 --> 00:15:02.399 noticed we could we could see ourselves 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:03.540 imagine 00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:06.000 being imaginative and then we talked 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.380 about liminal uh experiences which you 00:15:10.380 --> 00:15:12.480 lose the sense of authorship and you 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.279 start getting it becomes a pure 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.560 subjective experience 00:15:16.560 --> 00:15:19.019 um so that's a state change 00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:23.820 um that is interesting and useful but 00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:26.339 it's these swings these oscillations 00:15:26.339 --> 00:15:28.800 that are probably inevitable then I'm 00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:30.420 not trying to problematize it I'm just 00:15:30.420 --> 00:15:34.079 trying to say that you can watch people 00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:36.959 as a teacher you can watch people on 00:15:36.959 --> 00:15:38.940 this on this journey and some people 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:42.060 just go from objective okay Sam Harris 00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:45.320 he goes from object objective reality 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:49.160 to witness everything stays very subject 00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:53.399 objective for him he's quite reflexively 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:54.420 aware 00:15:54.420 --> 00:15:58.040 but it's always in the objective Corner 00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:00.959 does that make sense to you 00:16:00.959 --> 00:16:02.519 other people like I'm going to use 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:05.880 Charles eisenstein he's he's weirdly in 00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:07.620 this I don't know like he's either 00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:09.660 really right and I don't get it but it's 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:13.920 a little weirdly in in 00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.079 the subjective 00:16:16.079 --> 00:16:18.899 fear or a reality 00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:21.959 um and it's it's about trying to grow to 00:16:21.959 --> 00:16:25.440 the reflexive awareness and have it and 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.399 be interpenetrating or or balanced 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.860 um in the integral Theory days in that 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:34.139 Community a lot of people because they 00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:35.940 were hyper intellectuals stuck in the 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:38.399 witness so they just saw all their 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.339 experiences objective States 00:16:41.339 --> 00:16:44.160 that they were separate from and it's 00:16:44.160 --> 00:16:46.560 called the stink of Zen 00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:50.160 um and so it's just a model to show that 00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:51.839 there's a lot going on in the human 00:16:51.839 --> 00:16:56.220 experience as we move from automatic to 00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:56.759 um 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:03.560 more reflexively aware uh uh States 00:17:03.660 --> 00:17:06.360 and it all seems to be part of like the 00:17:06.360 --> 00:17:09.260 journey the journey 00:17:09.540 --> 00:17:11.520 um and I think people have 00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:15.179 have basins of Attraction you know like 00:17:15.179 --> 00:17:17.640 you can feel that I'm much I'm more 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.020 objective 00:17:19.020 --> 00:17:21.540 than people who are highly imaginal and 00:17:21.540 --> 00:17:23.400 doing a lot of liminal work 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.000 it's it's uh partially because I don't 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.460 know you know I I went through so many 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:33.059 years where I was 3 000 feet off out of 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:35.280 my body I was over here I was by 00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:37.919 locating I was this I was that 00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:40.679 I spent a lot of time in the subjective 00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:44.340 realm uh so 00:17:44.340 --> 00:17:48.179 um I I see it as uh The Sweet Spot in 00:17:48.179 --> 00:17:50.400 the middle but I know in my communities 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:56.520 I I seem more objective uh than where 00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:59.880 people are at right now 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:01.559 does that make sense is that helpful 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.340 yeah 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:06.539 and I had kind of a tangential question 00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.000 just too about the the word is like the 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:09.780 difference if there's a difference 00:18:09.780 --> 00:18:12.780 between reflective and reflective like 00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:17.100 yeah so we've okay there's there's two 00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.520 you know part of this 00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:22.919 Christian's a stupid course part of this 00:18:22.919 --> 00:18:24.900 pop-up School is 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.380 using terms precisely so but they have 00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:30.840 their we we Define them in our own way 00:18:30.840 --> 00:18:34.020 so reflective has two two tone two uh 00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:37.020 two meanings one is the common meaning 00:18:37.020 --> 00:18:39.360 where like 00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:41.700 we're a sports team and we go through 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.500 something and then we say okay why did 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.600 we lost let's reflect on that 00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:48.480 so it's retrospective sense making of 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.880 something after the fact 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.640 then there's a spiritual meaning of 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.179 reflective and I wrote it in the course 00:18:57.179 --> 00:18:58.559 content 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:02.240 um and that is that 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.860 um that the external world is a perfect 00:19:07.860 --> 00:19:11.640 reflection of our internal state 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.640 that there's a one-to-one correspondence 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.380 you could say it's isomorphic to or 00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:21.600 um a you know like a twin 00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:24.660 so this is the spiritual meaning of 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.120 reflection you know that the Moon is 00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:30.360 perfectly reflected in the water is a 00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:33.480 metaphor they use for that the world is 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.900 perfectly reflected in consciousness 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.360 we're not going to talk about that today 00:19:39.360 --> 00:19:43.260 we'll probably talk about it the last 00:19:43.260 --> 00:19:43.980 um 00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:47.039 the last session in this module because 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.220 we need to in order to understand that 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:53.480 we need to understand 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.960 awareness 00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:04.500 um first because that that metaphor that 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.600 the world is a perfect reflection of our 00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:09.600 internal still makes it seem like 00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:11.340 there's two things 00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:14.220 there's there's two mirrors there's one 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:15.960 well there's either the world and 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:17.460 there's a mirror or there's a mirror and 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.440 there's a world or there's two mirrors 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.840 looking at each other I don't know it's 00:20:21.840 --> 00:20:25.620 very dualistic so it is true I I would 00:20:25.620 --> 00:20:28.500 say but we have to learn how to 00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:30.679 understand it and to give you a preview 00:20:30.679 --> 00:20:36.299 is once you are very reflexively aware 00:20:36.299 --> 00:20:41.780 then you realize something very cool 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.280 and that is 00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:46.740 you've learned so you go through this 00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:48.780 whole journey understanding that your 00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:50.640 psyche 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.980 in your dispositional state your 00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:55.200 interior has a lot to do with how the 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.140 world comes at you it has a lot to do 00:20:58.140 --> 00:20:59.460 with it 00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:03.780 but this work is very hard 00:21:03.780 --> 00:21:06.240 once you get to like the top there we 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.520 have reflexive awareness where it's it's 00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:11.940 not so ice oscillating between the 00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:15.960 subjective and the objective reality 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.120 um 00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:18.660 you 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:21.600 and you notice how it works most people 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:23.760 as they get close to reflexive awareness 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:25.860 they're spending a lot of time in this 00:21:25.860 --> 00:21:29.159 subjective State reality state 00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:31.740 then something happens and you realize 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.360 that 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:37.679 that the oscillation is not necessary so 00:21:37.679 --> 00:21:39.840 the dualism is not necessary and then 00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:43.880 you realize that it's much easier 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.020 just to 00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:49.260 work in the objective world because 00:21:49.260 --> 00:21:52.140 we've evolved to manipulate objects 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:55.260 instead of having an object wondering 00:21:55.260 --> 00:21:57.900 what my state is interpolating the state 00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:00.659 doing all this cognitive work 00:22:00.659 --> 00:22:03.299 since the real world so what happens is 00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:05.700 you trust things like this my husband's 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.980 unhappy with me what can I do about it 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:10.440 I just try to make him happy with me 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.960 whatever I try to do I just try to do it 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.240 I don't get hung up on who's projecting 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.480 who or whatever I just tried to work in 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.539 the world until the physical reality is 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:24.840 solved because I know for a fact it's a 00:22:24.840 --> 00:22:27.840 perfect reflection of my interior I 00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:30.240 don't have to check my interior 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.080 and this is profoundly liberating 00:22:33.080 --> 00:22:37.559 because we have evolved to to we're very 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.039 good at working with concrete things 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.620 but you see you start to see the 00:22:43.620 --> 00:22:46.140 obstruction that the psychic move has 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:48.360 made because you haven't made things 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:51.000 good with your husband because you've 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.820 been psychologizing everything first 00:22:53.820 --> 00:22:57.320 so so 00:22:57.320 --> 00:22:59.880 if you get a sense of what I'm saying 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:02.460 you get completely liberated just to do 00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:04.620 Concrete service in the world 00:23:04.620 --> 00:23:08.100 and you you don't have to worry about 00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:09.960 and you make and you try to make it 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.919 better and and it is it is transforming 00:23:13.919 --> 00:23:15.360 your psyche you don't have to worry 00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:17.820 about like your what's you just try to 00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:19.740 do good things in the world now having 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.020 said this it's a pre-trans fallacy 00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:23.520 there's a lot of people that try to do 00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:25.080 good things in the world and they 00:23:25.080 --> 00:23:27.480 haven't ever made that Journey so they 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.460 just project on the world and they 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:31.320 it up so 00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:34.320 you can't start there you have to go 00:23:34.320 --> 00:23:36.600 through this journey and then at the top 00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:39.500 it becomes much more like single Loop 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:44.100 single Loop action Logics right I see I 00:23:44.100 --> 00:23:47.100 see what I'm doing here is not working I 00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:49.640 try something else I don't I just keep 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.860 being in service to what is versus 00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:54.860 having to do so much 00:23:54.860 --> 00:23:58.380 interior work let's say I trust that if 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.960 things aren't going well then I need to 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.780 change I keep changing and changing and 00:24:03.780 --> 00:24:07.140 changing until things if I have love in 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:09.299 my heart and that's not expressed in my 00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:11.460 reality I just keep changing and 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.640 changing and changing until it does of 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.159 course again if you're not on the path 00:24:17.159 --> 00:24:19.679 this becomes horrible because then you 00:24:19.679 --> 00:24:21.780 know the hell is paved with good 00:24:21.780 --> 00:24:25.679 intentions but at a certain point you 00:24:25.679 --> 00:24:27.900 start to trust 00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:30.840 that the world is giving you proper 00:24:30.840 --> 00:24:32.580 feedback 00:24:32.580 --> 00:24:36.179 um and it's not and and you just use it 00:24:36.179 --> 00:24:38.700 as information so 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:39.900 um 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:43.080 so that's what that diagram is trying to 00:24:43.080 --> 00:24:44.640 explain 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.539 um explain I know that was a lot but 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:50.340 um 00:24:50.340 --> 00:24:52.740 and and and then you can you have little 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:54.780 instances I'm sure you've had these 00:24:54.780 --> 00:24:56.640 experience where you just 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.260 instead of trying to like 00:25:00.659 --> 00:25:03.120 understand the complexity of the 00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:05.280 Interiors of the other per you just say 00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:07.020 you know I really missed you that's 00:25:07.020 --> 00:25:09.179 really sad 00:25:09.179 --> 00:25:11.400 it'll be more complicated than that you 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.559 know it and 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:14.880 um 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.799 or 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.980 um 00:25:19.919 --> 00:25:23.520 yeah you you you your life becomes more 00:25:23.520 --> 00:25:24.539 about 00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:28.140 doing the simple right thing rather than 00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:30.120 uh 00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:32.880 the struggles you had 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.299 had so it's just I'm saying this is 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.220 because if you're at that stage just 00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:42.059 give permission to uh simplifying in 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.900 that in that direction 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:48.679 does that make sense 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.200 and usually let me say this usually this 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:54.240 is in in current 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.880 uh situation this is something that 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.260 happens 00:25:58.260 --> 00:26:02.880 to people in their 50s and 60s so it's 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.039 it's a long journey you know some people 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.140 are exceptions but it's a long journey 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:10.260 experiential Journey uh to go through 00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:14.820 the the the the the the uh 00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:17.580 the structures of Consciousness that 00:26:17.580 --> 00:26:22.380 emerged in the 60s 50s and 60s 70s and 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:25.140 80s and even with woke wokeness which is 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:29.700 a uh perversion of it are all subjective 00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:31.740 it's all the emergence of subjective 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.299 awareness 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:35.460 um so this is kind of like as a society 00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:37.919 this is the stage we're in and we're 00:26:37.919 --> 00:26:39.659 looking for this this other 00:26:39.659 --> 00:26:42.659 transformation 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.760 you pray less 00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:47.100 you feed people more this kind of thing 00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:51.840 you know like that that kind of uh 00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:55.860 it it's it's the the the 00:26:55.860 --> 00:26:57.419 um 00:26:57.419 --> 00:26:59.580 Oxford diary you go back to the 00:26:59.580 --> 00:27:01.320 marketplace and you're just you're just 00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:04.620 a person now but it's not the same as 00:27:04.620 --> 00:27:08.900 when you when you started 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.080 Matthew 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:17.340 hello 00:27:17.340 --> 00:27:20.840 how's it going it's been a while 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:24.080 um so 00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.059 do you does a person need because I'm 00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:29.039 kind of 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:29.880 um 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.620 that Journey you just reminded me of 00:27:31.620 --> 00:27:33.480 going from like objective to more 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.000 subjective 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.820 in order to kind of transcend this 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:40.500 subjective space 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:43.320 does a person need to 00:27:43.320 --> 00:27:47.520 have a certain capacity 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.659 um for like 00:27:50.659 --> 00:27:53.159 metacognition because I I thought I 00:27:53.159 --> 00:27:54.659 remember you talking I don't know what 00:27:54.659 --> 00:27:57.000 that means but I remember you saying 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.559 something of the sort where 00:28:00.659 --> 00:28:02.400 um you were talking about people that 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.100 grow up in our culture get all these 00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:07.580 sort of internal psychological 00:28:07.580 --> 00:28:12.059 constructs like ifs Etc and it takes 00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:14.700 a certain amount of metacognition in 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:16.860 order to overcome all that stuff is that 00:28:16.860 --> 00:28:18.419 kind of what you're talking about 00:28:18.419 --> 00:28:20.760 yeah so 00:28:20.760 --> 00:28:23.419 it shouldn't be trans 00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:25.580 but but 00:28:25.580 --> 00:28:29.640 metacognition is one way to do it 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:31.679 but if you're lucky something happens 00:28:31.679 --> 00:28:33.659 like you get drafted and you have to go 00:28:33.659 --> 00:28:36.140 kill people 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:37.740 um 00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:40.200 so sometimes people are thrown into 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:41.940 concrete reality 00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:44.880 uh Saving Private Ryan you ever see that 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.020 movie 00:28:46.020 --> 00:28:48.900 so here's someone Tom Hanks is in the 00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.179 movie and he's he's narrating at his 00:28:51.179 --> 00:28:55.140 experience is very highly metacognitive 00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:57.960 but he's an extremely concrete situation 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.960 that has extreme constraints 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.559 and and this 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:08.100 this is kind of you know uh generative 00:29:08.100 --> 00:29:11.820 brutality so it doesn't require uh 00:29:11.820 --> 00:29:13.740 metacognition 00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:15.720 um and and 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:16.740 um 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.740 but 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:23.520 you wouldn't wish this other kind of 00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:25.700 experience on people either probably 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:29.460 because the same experience could could 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:31.980 break you but a lot of times being 00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:33.500 thrown into 00:29:33.500 --> 00:29:37.380 extremely concrete situations 00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:39.500 um 00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:42.000 does the same thing 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000 you can bypass a lot of a metacognitive 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.580 complexity 00:29:47.580 --> 00:29:49.580 um 00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:55.220 that that will also get get you there 00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.179 and I think that you know it makes sense 00:30:00.179 --> 00:30:03.500 that that can happen 00:30:12.360 --> 00:30:13.980 I used to have this experience of like 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.260 oscillating between a focus that seemed 00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:17.640 really clearly objective and really 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.220 clearly subjective and this like went on 00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:21.779 for a long time and then eventually I 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:24.059 kind of lost track of it 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:25.620 um I find it hard to think in those 00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:27.360 terms anymore 00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:29.039 um at some point I had like a real 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.299 familiarity with what like the witness 00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:31.919 state in the non-dual state were and I 00:30:31.919 --> 00:30:34.620 also like ditto for those like I don't 00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.880 know what that means anymore and I can't 00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:37.380 like 00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:38.880 it's strange because I can like use them 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.740 grammatically and talking but I don't 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:41.820 understand what they're supposed to be 00:30:41.820 --> 00:30:43.440 anymore 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.460 um 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.039 as this has gone on I've noticed that 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.740 I have like less of a capacity for 00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:53.039 metacognition so like your your upwards 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:54.779 the like Arc of development is in the 00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:57.299 direction of more meta awareness 00:30:57.299 --> 00:30:59.460 um my experience has been like less 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:01.740 explicit meta awareness to the point 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.480 where like I can't really 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.399 evoke it or point at it happening 00:31:05.399 --> 00:31:07.440 organically I could like manually write 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.179 a journal or something 00:31:09.179 --> 00:31:11.640 but um I'm curious why you 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.320 yeah 00:31:12.320 --> 00:31:15.419 so this is beautiful because this is 00:31:15.419 --> 00:31:18.260 exactly what I'm 00:31:20.580 --> 00:31:22.980 see I don't put it as meta awareness I 00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:24.779 say reflexive awareness because 00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:27.120 reflexive awareness has a lot of embody 00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:29.399 perceptual 00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:34.799 uh uh uh attuning Attunement to it 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.940 um and and if it's not subjective it's 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.059 not meta-aware in a subjective sense and 00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:44.399 it's not the witness in objective sense 00:31:44.399 --> 00:31:46.260 it's what I call I mean I don't know 00:31:46.260 --> 00:31:48.000 what else to call it reflexive awareness 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.279 and that's exactly what happens this 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:54.000 oscillations stops and you still 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.140 understand it uh but something else is 00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:59.640 going on 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:01.260 um and you have more Choice sometimes 00:32:01.260 --> 00:32:04.080 you track a lot sometimes like why track 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:05.760 everything all the time you know like 00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:09.899 it's not you know it's not important to 00:32:09.899 --> 00:32:10.799 um 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.200 um and uh depending upon who you're in 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.580 conversation with if if they're highly 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:20.100 objectivist you will seem too subjective 00:32:20.100 --> 00:32:22.740 if you're if they're highly subjective 00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:24.960 you will seem like you went to the dark 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.480 side and started to be too conventional 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.720 and because both sides won't really uh 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.640 you know you'll seem like the other side 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:35.039 to either side 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.779 um so that's a marker of exactly 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:40.380 um 00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:41.179 um 00:32:41.179 --> 00:32:44.419 what I've seen over many many years of 00:32:44.419 --> 00:32:47.279 teaching I didn't see it in myself 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.440 because it's very hard to say in 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.960 yourself I didn't look back and say oh 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.260 yeah that happened to me but mostly I I 00:32:55.260 --> 00:32:58.440 saw in all those years of teaching 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.159 um and and uh it's easier to see 00:33:02.159 --> 00:33:04.679 tracking tracking students over a long 00:33:04.679 --> 00:33:06.899 period of time 00:33:06.899 --> 00:33:08.940 um for me it was mostly like I lived in 00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:10.980 Two Worlds I lived in the horse World 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:14.039 which was objective and cowboyish and 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.200 then I lived in philosophy and 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.019 metacognitive spaces so it wasn't like 00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.299 uh embodied uh 00:33:21.299 --> 00:33:24.440 oscillation it was like this is two 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:27.000 realities I lived in 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.220 um but people who do 00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:33.120 um more formal uh training 00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:35.279 psychotechnologies 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.799 um that's kind of like the journey 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:41.700 they're they're on uh usually yeah 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:43.799 yeah this is uh 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.179 there's funny there's this like a 00:33:45.179 --> 00:33:46.440 possuma nerd that's like really 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:48.539 concerned that the like manual explicit 00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:50.399 versions of things are somehow being 00:33:50.399 --> 00:33:52.140 replaced by just like more and more 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:54.960 absences of things yeah and it's a nice 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:56.399 sanity effect to say like oh yeah this 00:33:56.399 --> 00:33:57.840 is like a reasonable thing to have 00:33:57.840 --> 00:33:59.519 happen 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.640 um 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:04.200 I had another question that's gone now 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.600 oh um 00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:08.580 and here's how this or if there's any 00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:12.480 relationship to you once said that 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:13.919 I'm not sure if you literally said this 00:34:13.919 --> 00:34:16.919 but like there was some some energy like 00:34:16.919 --> 00:34:18.720 all this intellectual is kind of 00:34:18.720 --> 00:34:19.859 like work 00:34:19.859 --> 00:34:21.659 like using all these fancy terms and 00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:23.700 being incredibly precise about conveying 00:34:23.700 --> 00:34:26.280 stuff this is kind of like really 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:28.260 tedious and it is good to frame it as 00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:29.820 like it's actually been really useful 00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:31.440 for me to think of this as like a form 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.599 of work that I do yeah and how like not 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:35.639 the point like the work is in service of 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:36.720 something else and there is something 00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:37.560 else 00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:39.960 do you where do you feel like 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:41.639 like I didn't start with that kind of 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.280 like relationship to nerding out about 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.500 this stuff I'm curious where you started 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:49.580 and how you saw that shift 00:34:49.580 --> 00:34:53.359 yeah so you know I'm I'm 00:34:53.359 --> 00:34:56.639 where the work is in 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.640 being precise with language not because 00:34:59.640 --> 00:35:02.640 language is important but because we 00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:04.500 want to all agree that when I use this 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:07.680 word I'm I'm feeling the same thing I 00:35:07.680 --> 00:35:09.900 have well closest we can get to the same 00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:11.520 experience 00:35:11.520 --> 00:35:14.160 because only then can we begin to like 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:18.119 what you just said to talk about uh like 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:19.859 is this experience what you're having 00:35:19.859 --> 00:35:24.540 you know and and so so we're trying to 00:35:24.540 --> 00:35:26.400 be precise with language and we have to 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:28.800 make up definitions for things because 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.400 in popular in regular culture these 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.400 words mean all kinds of things so 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.560 um I think that's a lot I think that's a 00:35:37.560 --> 00:35:40.500 lot of work and then we agree to talk to 00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:43.619 our each other this way and that is also 00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:45.060 work 00:35:45.060 --> 00:35:47.160 um so 00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:50.420 um uh 00:35:52.140 --> 00:35:56.660 I don't know I mean 00:35:57.060 --> 00:36:00.180 so I beat up on people for having like 00:36:00.180 --> 00:36:03.480 big abstract terms and this and that I 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.760 don't I try not to have big abstract 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.420 terms I try to have words that function 00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:11.700 you know 00:36:11.700 --> 00:36:14.099 um but it is a little 00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:16.560 tricky to 00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.920 to 00:36:19.859 --> 00:36:23.339 yeah to trade in words and be kind of 00:36:23.339 --> 00:36:24.780 like 00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:28.200 you know suspect of language so 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:30.260 um 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.540 but it is it is it is a certain kind of 00:36:33.540 --> 00:36:35.160 work 00:36:35.160 --> 00:36:37.200 um 00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:40.140 but hopefully like Wendell Berry says at 00:36:40.140 --> 00:36:41.760 the end of the day it's good work you 00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.339 know like uh 00:36:44.339 --> 00:36:46.520 um 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:49.380 the purpose of the course is not 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:51.480 necessary unless you want to 00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.280 teach 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.599 um is not necessarily to be able to 00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:01.260 be fluent in the precise use of the 00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:02.520 words 00:37:02.520 --> 00:37:04.579 um but to be able to 00:37:04.579 --> 00:37:06.200 discern 00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:09.960 and recognize experience you see this is 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:11.220 the thing I'm going to say this to you 00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:12.900 because I know you're quite Advanced is 00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:16.500 that I'm trying to replace phenomenology 00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:19.140 with attending to experience and they're 00:37:19.140 --> 00:37:21.359 different things 00:37:21.359 --> 00:37:23.040 and 00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:25.079 um not that phenomenology is important 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.200 but when you're doing phenomenology you 00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:30.660 should always be able to like oh what is 00:37:30.660 --> 00:37:34.560 the experience I'm having and and that 00:37:34.560 --> 00:37:37.500 continually brings in the more human 00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:39.960 aspect of it or the more relational 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:43.020 aspect of it so 00:37:43.020 --> 00:37:47.460 um uh so I try to use words that then 00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:49.740 are coupled to 00:37:49.740 --> 00:37:53.280 uh experiences that we can discern so 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.440 it's it's both sometimes you use the 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:57.300 word and people 00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:00.119 are having trouble attaching an 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:01.980 experience with it and sometimes it's 00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:04.440 the other way around 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.520 um it's a it's a little messy but 00:38:08.520 --> 00:38:10.579 um 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:14.099 but you know 00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:16.980 it's where we're at right now so 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:17.700 um 00:38:17.700 --> 00:38:19.859 it's not really a model I have a lot of 00:38:19.859 --> 00:38:22.440 models but I don't have a model I use 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.260 models to do exactly what we say because 00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.260 models and heuristics uh work better 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:29.880 like that little thing I showed you it 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.640 works better than language right if I 00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:34.380 had tried to say that in like an 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.079 abstract language and you get into these 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.780 these spaces you sound like the guru you 00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:41.760 start talking about like in the words 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.680 coming out of your mouth are like what 00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:46.500 the am I saying that you know so I 00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:49.260 try I have a lot of models but that's 00:38:49.260 --> 00:38:51.420 that's what they're for 00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:52.640 to to 00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:55.260 make it simpler to understand than 00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:59.359 trying to like talk about it 00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:07.079 yes Liz did you waste your hands or or 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.839 the others jolt I did but zolt's other 00:39:09.839 --> 00:39:12.000 partner also had a so you go first 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.740 because you're probably tying into it 00:39:13.740 --> 00:39:15.480 salt whispering 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:17.700 that's actually different I guess 00:39:17.700 --> 00:39:19.339 um 00:39:19.339 --> 00:39:21.599 oh I was just wondering if you could 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:23.700 talk more about 00:39:23.700 --> 00:39:24.420 um 00:39:24.420 --> 00:39:25.740 because you you mentioned that our 00:39:25.740 --> 00:39:28.020 society tends to like bias towards the 00:39:28.020 --> 00:39:29.940 objective side of things from a starting 00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:31.260 point 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:34.619 um so when someone has gone deep into 00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:36.720 that chaotic 00:39:36.720 --> 00:39:41.280 um subjective side of this oscillation 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:41.940 um 00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:45.000 and it's kind of like poking back out on 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.619 the objective side 00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:49.520 um I guess I'm just curious 00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:52.200 there's not really a question here I was 00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:53.339 just wondering if you could talk more 00:39:53.339 --> 00:39:55.560 about that process like you mentioned 00:39:55.560 --> 00:39:58.440 conspiracy theories I assume like 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.440 um like gripping on to narratives like 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.359 your subjective experience maybe 00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:04.980 bleeding out into your sensory 00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:06.960 experiences things like that but could 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.640 you talk about that and also maybe just 00:40:08.640 --> 00:40:10.260 like the process of like what it's like 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:11.280 when you're 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:14.339 kind of coming out yeah so at first you 00:40:14.339 --> 00:40:16.859 realize that 00:40:16.859 --> 00:40:19.920 quite early now in our society that 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:21.780 something about your subjective 00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:25.400 orientation is making 00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:28.079 there's two different interpretations is 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.839 making things happen the way they do 00:40:30.839 --> 00:40:35.940 or is projecting an interpretation on on 00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:39.960 the world so you people realize that I 00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:41.700 have the same problem with with 00:40:41.700 --> 00:40:43.619 different women over and over and over 00:40:43.619 --> 00:40:45.180 again and it's because it's the problem 00:40:45.180 --> 00:40:48.660 I have with my mom okay so this is I 00:40:48.660 --> 00:40:51.599 call it cracking the code it's a really 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.060 beautiful 00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:56.700 uh expansion of consciousness so but 00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:58.680 then you start to get into this 00:40:58.680 --> 00:41:00.359 territory where you think everything 00:41:00.359 --> 00:41:03.359 depends upon me 00:41:03.359 --> 00:41:07.500 um controlling my interior 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.140 so you see some young uh meta modern 00:41:10.140 --> 00:41:13.380 people are like this like like they 00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:16.079 really and and then people go to 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.180 monasteries and they do this and then 00:41:18.180 --> 00:41:20.640 that and that's good but 00:41:20.640 --> 00:41:25.079 if it doesn't resolve itself into 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:28.560 um uh it can it can it can take on a 00:41:28.560 --> 00:41:31.320 life of its own yeah so that you're in 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:33.540 this this 00:41:33.540 --> 00:41:36.180 um and it's very code like source code 00:41:36.180 --> 00:41:39.240 what is the source code and and 00:41:39.240 --> 00:41:41.220 um uh so we're going to talk about 00:41:41.220 --> 00:41:43.800 things people then they get into things 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.079 like I'm aware that I do this oh who's 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:48.359 aware of who does that oh who's aware 00:41:48.359 --> 00:41:50.280 who does that and you get into these 00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:54.420 recursive awareness uh mental models 00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:56.160 they're all simulations but you think 00:41:56.160 --> 00:41:58.920 they're real there's all kinds of Halls 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.859 of mirror that people get when 00:42:01.859 --> 00:42:04.020 um you know because it's amazing how 00:42:04.020 --> 00:42:06.240 much progress you can make in the 00:42:06.240 --> 00:42:09.359 subjective realm but then there's 00:42:09.359 --> 00:42:12.960 there's there's no balancing to it this 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.140 is why Zen monasteries uh 00:42:16.140 --> 00:42:19.260 um the traditional ones balance you know 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:21.359 that with like work duties you have to 00:42:21.359 --> 00:42:23.700 wash the floor and clean they put all 00:42:23.700 --> 00:42:27.660 this kind of like mundane concrete work 00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:31.740 in coupled to this because of this need 00:42:31.740 --> 00:42:34.520 to balance science 00:42:34.520 --> 00:42:38.280 you know you've got one one leg in the 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.260 subjective and one leg in the objective 00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:42.060 world so 00:42:42.060 --> 00:42:43.260 um 00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:46.859 um and and so 00:42:46.859 --> 00:42:48.060 um 00:42:48.060 --> 00:42:51.240 you can you've if you've seen some of my 00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:55.260 uh fun debates or playful arguments with 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:59.040 Apostle I I believe he's he's too much 00:42:59.040 --> 00:43:00.660 in the you know everything is a 00:43:00.660 --> 00:43:02.400 simulation you can't possibly have 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.500 direct perception everything is already 00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:07.260 encoded in some kind of Illusion 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:09.240 everything is this everything is that 00:43:09.240 --> 00:43:13.200 it's not properly balanced with 00:43:13.200 --> 00:43:14.940 um 00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:18.359 the concrete reel let's say 00:43:18.359 --> 00:43:20.460 um and 00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:21.780 um 00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:25.140 we we as a culture not even even outside 00:43:25.140 --> 00:43:26.880 of like these spiritual communities 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.460 whereas a culture think everything is 00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:32.940 constructed gender is constructed 00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:35.579 um everything is up for grabs depending 00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:37.980 upon your interpretation of it we live 00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:40.260 in a simulation the simulation is 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:43.680 mentally and socially constructed 00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:46.200 um so it's kind of like a phase as a 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:49.140 society we're in that's highly 00:43:49.140 --> 00:43:54.800 uh subjective you know subjectivized uh 00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:56.700 yeah 00:43:56.700 --> 00:43:58.700 um 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.099 and then the systems 00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:04.980 in our society also 00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:07.040 um 00:44:07.319 --> 00:44:09.839 you know the media and stuff can make 00:44:09.839 --> 00:44:12.300 money off of everything being like like 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:16.440 subjective and not not objective so 00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:18.500 um 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:22.800 yeah 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:24.599 I don't know if I said enough but I 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:28.079 can't I'm I'm searching for 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:29.460 um 00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:32.420 some common examples 00:44:32.420 --> 00:44:34.680 right like I think that's great I kind 00:44:34.680 --> 00:44:37.740 of just wanted to hear you riff yeah on 00:44:37.740 --> 00:44:40.560 that yeah I was trying to search my 00:44:40.560 --> 00:44:44.040 memory banks for examples but yeah 00:44:44.040 --> 00:44:46.260 and the thing that like I'm going 00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:48.900 through on this end is 00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:51.300 um I'll have some insight which seems 00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:53.520 pretty systematic because it applies to 00:44:53.520 --> 00:44:56.040 most situations like say like the impact 00:44:56.040 --> 00:44:58.319 of 00:44:58.319 --> 00:44:59.400 um 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.200 like the aspect of frustration or 00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:03.060 something like that on on like the 00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:04.619 social field or something like that and 00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:07.079 then I'll super salience it 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:08.460 um 00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:11.160 and then it'll 00:45:11.160 --> 00:45:14.040 it'll be so Salient that I'll wind up in 00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:16.200 some kind of like feedback situation 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:18.000 where now I'm completely dysfunctional 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.760 yeah because I'm so at and then it'll 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:23.280 just like switch week like what's being 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.560 salienced and like I'm at a point now 00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:27.060 where I think this is good because I'm 00:45:27.060 --> 00:45:28.380 getting like the gist that I'm just like 00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:30.060 processing things one at a time or 00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:31.740 something but it's like it's pretty 00:45:31.740 --> 00:45:34.440 unstable and I'm 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.200 yeah anyway that's the situation that I 00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:38.460 was in that was kind of motivating the 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:41.520 question of like how do you like the 00:45:41.520 --> 00:45:44.579 people you come out yeah so one of the 00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:46.640 things happens is 00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:50.460 you you become an objective Observer of 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:53.880 your subjective state so this is you 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:56.579 know the subject's object move 00:45:56.579 --> 00:45:58.980 um you don't want this to be a permanent 00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:03.000 thing but what happens is so different 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.980 moves like 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:07.740 you know like I have this thing I call 00:46:07.740 --> 00:46:10.980 Bodies In Space right you put bodies in 00:46:10.980 --> 00:46:14.060 space and body's distort space 00:46:14.060 --> 00:46:16.980 and this is true whether there are dogs 00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.220 or cats or horses or insect you know you 00:46:20.220 --> 00:46:22.140 get in a car and you have one little 00:46:22.140 --> 00:46:25.079 freaking mosquito in there and the space 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:26.640 is distorted you can't have a 00:46:26.640 --> 00:46:29.819 conversation whatever so 00:46:29.819 --> 00:46:32.940 this is very objective language yeah 00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.940 it's very it's it's it's it's powerful 00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.920 but it's kind of simple and then you say 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.160 how does your body distort space so you 00:46:41.160 --> 00:46:44.400 turn the you turn the thought that like 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.980 and this is true my dispositional state 00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:51.180 has causal effects effects on how people 00:46:51.180 --> 00:46:55.920 act around me and then then I look at 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.079 the external environment and think why 00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:00.000 are these people crazy because I've 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.800 discounted the fact that I'm making them 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.680 crazy so this is the middle range when 00:47:04.680 --> 00:47:06.720 you start to realize something in me is 00:47:06.720 --> 00:47:08.339 making them act like that and then I 00:47:08.339 --> 00:47:10.260 react to that but then you think well 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:12.180 something in them is making you know and 00:47:12.180 --> 00:47:14.220 it gets very complicated 00:47:14.220 --> 00:47:16.680 and then you start to use these other 00:47:16.680 --> 00:47:19.200 frames that are more objective bodies to 00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:20.819 sort space 00:47:20.819 --> 00:47:24.119 what kind of body do I want to be not 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.579 what kind of 00:47:25.579 --> 00:47:29.700 personality and then I noticed that just 00:47:29.700 --> 00:47:31.980 the way I carry my body 00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:35.640 makes most up most of the difference 00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:39.599 this makes it simpler to me much simpler 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:42.720 and and all this psychological 00:47:42.720 --> 00:47:44.460 complexity 00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:47.400 it's still true but the psychological 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:49.680 complexity actually was reflecting 00:47:49.680 --> 00:47:52.740 something about your body more than vice 00:47:52.740 --> 00:47:55.260 versa and the body's easier if you can 00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:58.319 trust it easier to work with at that 00:47:58.319 --> 00:47:59.280 level 00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.339 now having said that sometimes you can't 00:48:02.339 --> 00:48:04.140 make your body do that because you're 00:48:04.140 --> 00:48:06.599 actually psychologically con contracted 00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:09.960 so then there's a back and forth but a 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.240 lot of what this teaching is at the 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:14.760 pop-up school is to constantly 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.460 condense things into like you know how 00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:20.099 do you want to sort space you know and 00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:21.900 then you see yeah like this person just 00:48:21.900 --> 00:48:23.640 walked in and this happened all of a 00:48:23.640 --> 00:48:26.160 sudden I'm not I still notice things 00:48:26.160 --> 00:48:28.740 that are completely relevant 00:48:28.740 --> 00:48:31.380 but it's not so psychologically or 00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.760 subjectively subjectively complex 00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:39.839 and it has more power to transfer to 00:48:39.839 --> 00:48:42.839 um other aspects of the world like you 00:48:42.839 --> 00:48:45.839 know boardrooms and you know stuff like 00:48:45.839 --> 00:48:48.839 that so 00:48:48.839 --> 00:48:50.040 um 00:48:50.040 --> 00:48:52.980 so that's that's how how it works I mean 00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:55.319 you can't you have to expose the 00:48:55.319 --> 00:48:56.940 subjectivity you have to correct the 00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:58.079 code 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.300 um but 00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:04.680 this move toward like what uh your your 00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:09.300 partner was talking about is the goal 00:49:09.300 --> 00:49:12.480 and yes and some some communities don't 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:14.760 realize that 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:18.079 well thanks yeah 00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:20.240 thank you 00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:24.140 and you know the other way it has been 00:49:24.140 --> 00:49:27.660 uh resolved in the past is is being too 00:49:27.660 --> 00:49:29.460 objective just being the witness then 00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:31.079 you're not participating you're not 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:33.900 engaged so that was that was more like 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:36.240 when I was growing up that was with all 00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:38.819 the westerns and people were doing they 00:49:38.819 --> 00:49:41.160 were becoming 00:49:41.160 --> 00:49:44.220 creating so much subject object move 00:49:44.220 --> 00:49:46.980 that they were just witnessing like uh 00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:49.319 Wilbur would says hurts more 00:49:49.319 --> 00:49:54.020 matters less you know it was kind of 00:49:54.060 --> 00:49:56.880 I see I hurt more matters less this 00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.060 whole witness think of Zen thing was was 00:50:00.060 --> 00:50:01.859 the thing then 00:50:01.859 --> 00:50:05.060 and yeah 00:50:10.740 --> 00:50:12.359 so 00:50:12.359 --> 00:50:15.079 I think it was Liz next 00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:18.260 thank you 00:50:20.819 --> 00:50:22.920 how's your time Bonnie like shall I 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:24.660 bring something new in right now or yeah 00:50:24.660 --> 00:50:27.599 yeah we're good I I want to actually 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:29.819 share an experience that happened about 00:50:29.819 --> 00:50:32.040 three or four weeks ago of reflexive 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:34.079 awareness I think pure reflective 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.359 awareness and and just kind of what 00:50:36.359 --> 00:50:37.859 happened with it just for your 00:50:37.859 --> 00:50:40.859 reflection so I was walking with my dog 00:50:40.859 --> 00:50:43.680 in the forest and we popped out came in 00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:46.140 down a steep hill we popped out of a 00:50:46.140 --> 00:50:48.540 thick forested Place into a wide open 00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:50.000 cut 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.520 and just as my dog popped out there was 00:50:53.520 --> 00:50:57.540 bear walking down five feet and so my 00:50:57.540 --> 00:50:59.460 dog basically jumped right in front of 00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:01.500 the bear and 00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:03.960 then the bear and the dog started having 00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:07.500 a tussle and the bear was chasing my dog 00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:09.180 but my dog was trying to get back to me 00:51:09.180 --> 00:51:10.680 and figure out what is this thing had 00:51:10.680 --> 00:51:12.900 never seen a bear before and so the bear 00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:15.180 thought the dog was not getting the 00:51:15.180 --> 00:51:19.020 message so it kept attacking my dog and 00:51:19.020 --> 00:51:23.160 I jumped out onto the trail I had I had 00:51:23.160 --> 00:51:25.740 probably about 20 seconds of 00:51:25.740 --> 00:51:28.140 experiencing real terror like thinking 00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:31.200 this is the end for my dog 00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:33.839 and then I just went okay what do I I 00:51:33.839 --> 00:51:37.319 need my dog because the bear is between 00:51:37.319 --> 00:51:39.240 me and the dog so it can't come back to 00:51:39.240 --> 00:51:40.680 me so I need to like create this 00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:42.960 triangle by crossing over going into the 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.059 thing calling my dog so that it can come 00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:47.579 in sideways and 00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:50.760 as I started to leave the trail the bear 00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:52.680 and the dog are going down the trail 00:51:52.680 --> 00:51:55.500 the my dog I think figured out this is 00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:57.900 not good and started to run away and 00:51:57.900 --> 00:51:59.700 then the bear lost interest and started 00:51:59.700 --> 00:52:02.640 coming back up the trail toward me but I 00:52:02.640 --> 00:52:04.200 didn't care I wasn't scared at that 00:52:04.200 --> 00:52:06.359 point I'm like I still have one job get 00:52:06.359 --> 00:52:09.420 my dog back so I went into the thing I 00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:12.000 called my dog my dog did exactly the 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.160 right thing came up to me like in the 00:52:14.160 --> 00:52:16.500 Triangle the bear kept walking up the 00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:18.599 trail that's the end I'm not going to 00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:20.460 make it a longer story yeah that's 00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:22.859 enough of the story to say 00:52:22.859 --> 00:52:25.079 after that incident 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:29.220 when I came home the way that I 00:52:29.220 --> 00:52:33.960 processed it was to draw what happened 00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:38.819 awesome in these patterns of energy 00:52:38.819 --> 00:52:41.640 and it was so interesting because I 00:52:41.640 --> 00:52:43.740 wasn't trying to figure out what 00:52:43.740 --> 00:52:46.099 happened I was trying to complete 00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:50.700 what happened like that to have a high 00:52:50.700 --> 00:52:52.819 flower of the energy of what happened 00:52:52.819 --> 00:52:55.140 and the only other thing I want to say 00:52:55.140 --> 00:52:59.460 about it is I also was very clear I do 00:52:59.460 --> 00:53:02.880 not want to tell this story of the day 00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.040 my dog almost got killed by a bear 00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:06.780 because that's not actually what 00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:09.180 happened right at all 00:53:09.180 --> 00:53:12.180 what happened is my dog and a bear and 00:53:12.180 --> 00:53:14.760 me all came together everyone moved 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:17.460 truthfully for what was true for them in 00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:20.160 the moment and in the end that's what 00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:22.800 happened yeah end of story end of story 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:24.960 so I I would just love to hear you speak 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.880 in terms of this conversation we're 00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:29.579 having about what you see there yeah so 00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:32.160 it's perfect because reflexive awareness 00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:34.800 is all about tracking multiple States at 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.540 the same time so you probably knew 00:53:36.540 --> 00:53:39.119 exactly where your dog was and had a 00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:41.520 view of like what was in relation to 00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:45.180 whatever you you were very aware active 00:53:45.180 --> 00:53:47.460 but then you noticed oh I can't let my 00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:49.559 mind get tear you know be in this 00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:52.140 contraction so this is what reflective 00:53:52.140 --> 00:53:55.740 awareness is is that it's like a reflex 00:53:55.740 --> 00:53:57.839 I don't know why that term is used but 00:53:57.839 --> 00:54:00.960 it's it's about tracking 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:03.900 X interior is exterior zooming in 00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:05.540 zooming out 00:54:05.540 --> 00:54:10.500 flow goals uh you can't be so goal set 00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:13.140 that you can't you know all these things 00:54:13.140 --> 00:54:16.200 it's a fluidity and this this is 00:54:16.200 --> 00:54:21.119 um yeah and and so and even as you tell 00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:23.819 it like then I looked at my mind I was 00:54:23.819 --> 00:54:25.680 all these things aren't really that 00:54:25.680 --> 00:54:28.980 chopped up so it's all it's all this 00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:32.460 this this pattern of movement 00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:35.579 um and so so uh 00:54:35.579 --> 00:54:38.220 yeah that's that's what we would call 00:54:38.220 --> 00:54:40.500 reflexive awareness now the thing is 00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:43.140 it's easy to describe reflexive 00:54:43.140 --> 00:54:45.420 awareness in these kinds of situations 00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:48.839 like I said in war and stuff like that 00:54:48.839 --> 00:54:50.880 the question is how do we bring this 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:53.640 online in everyday interactions like at 00:54:53.640 --> 00:54:55.140 the boardroom 00:54:55.140 --> 00:54:58.380 um we tend to be uh you know because the 00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:01.319 bear makes us so animal-like and then we 00:55:01.319 --> 00:55:03.359 we can get into these stages where 00:55:03.359 --> 00:55:06.180 social interactions create anxiety and 00:55:06.180 --> 00:55:08.040 we get contracted and we actually can't 00:55:08.040 --> 00:55:10.319 do reflexive it sounds silly really 00:55:10.319 --> 00:55:12.900 right like like you get into the Zone 00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.980 when you're 00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:17.579 dealing with a bear but with people 00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:20.400 um the the stakes are often create more 00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:23.579 anxiety and so the question is how do we 00:55:23.579 --> 00:55:28.140 do this uh in everyday situations 00:55:28.140 --> 00:55:29.040 um 00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:34.380 um the the the it's more subtle so it's 00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:36.540 it's harder like when the bear is here 00:55:36.540 --> 00:55:38.819 or there or after my dog after me it's 00:55:38.819 --> 00:55:41.880 very obvious uh it's more subtle 00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:44.119 tracking what's happening in the 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.980 relational field with people are they 00:55:46.980 --> 00:55:49.260 being aggressive or not or 00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:50.940 like 00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:54.660 um but yeah that's that's definitely 00:55:54.660 --> 00:55:56.700 reflection reflexive awareness and not 00:55:56.700 --> 00:55:58.260 all people can do that like some people 00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.119 freeze or they freak out or they get 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.760 tunnel vision or 00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:03.480 um 00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:06.240 yeah or 00:56:06.240 --> 00:56:08.359 um 00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:11.240 yeah 00:56:11.240 --> 00:56:13.859 to add in to the story I was with a 00:56:13.859 --> 00:56:15.660 friend we only had one bear spray 00:56:15.660 --> 00:56:17.160 because we said we only need one there's 00:56:17.160 --> 00:56:20.520 only two of us but when the bear I 00:56:20.520 --> 00:56:22.520 jumped off the Steep Hill onto the track 00:56:22.520 --> 00:56:25.140 thinking my friend was coming right 00:56:25.140 --> 00:56:27.180 behind me with the bear spray and then 00:56:27.180 --> 00:56:29.880 the bear Turned to come back to me and I 00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:31.680 turned to look thinking she'll be right 00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:34.440 there she was not there and I'm like 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.980 Maria bear spray and she was up on the 00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:41.099 trail Frozen she was frozen and then 00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:43.440 like when I said bear spray she snapped 00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.960 out of it and she ignited the bear spray 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.480 and came down onto the trail but she was 00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.460 in an incident 10 years ago with two 00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:52.440 friends who were running 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:54.000 a bear 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.880 encountered them and said let's climb a 00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:58.859 tree the other two said no climbing 00:56:58.859 --> 00:57:01.020 trees the other one said yes I am she 00:57:01.020 --> 00:57:03.480 climbed the tree the other two took off 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:05.099 to get help 00:57:05.099 --> 00:57:07.140 and when they came back the friend had 00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:09.480 been knocked out of the tree broken neck 00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.380 dead yeah do not try to out climb up 00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:16.079 there if you've ever seen a bear climb a 00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:18.720 tree it's not a good move but the thing 00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:21.839 is that she had that whole thing going 00:57:21.839 --> 00:57:23.180 on 00:57:23.180 --> 00:57:25.800 it was impossible for her to be 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:28.859 reflexively aware she was locked in 00:57:28.859 --> 00:57:32.940 this you know a memory whatever yeah so 00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:35.819 that's that's that's a perfect example 00:57:35.819 --> 00:57:39.059 of of it well I'm wondering in the 00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:41.640 boardroom like in the boardroom how much 00:57:41.640 --> 00:57:44.040 of what we're bringing past experience 00:57:44.040 --> 00:57:47.760 that interferes with the capacity 00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.520 like how do we do that move how do we 00:57:50.520 --> 00:57:52.079 not have 00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:55.079 other stuff 00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:58.740 um interject itself and kind of it's 00:57:58.740 --> 00:58:00.059 almost like putting something all into 00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:02.040 the space so that you can't have the 00:58:02.040 --> 00:58:04.980 clear reflexive awareness 00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:07.619 like fear for me like I got an 00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:09.660 adrenaline whatever I have one job take 00:58:09.660 --> 00:58:12.900 care of my dog so it was clear it was so 00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:15.839 clear I have one thing I have to do but 00:58:15.839 --> 00:58:19.500 in the boardroom you have yeah so yeah 00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:21.839 the the answer to your question is 00:58:21.839 --> 00:58:26.339 simple but not easy and that is you when 00:58:26.339 --> 00:58:28.740 you just said it you had one clear goal 00:58:28.740 --> 00:58:32.880 and when we're in the boardroom we 00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:34.800 um don't have clear goals 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:36.780 we want to keep our job we don't like 00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:39.359 this but we want to keep our job and so 00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:42.240 we're incoherent in our action 00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:44.339 um this is something you learn with the 00:58:44.339 --> 00:58:46.200 horses you can't make them move if 00:58:46.200 --> 00:58:48.299 you're if you're want them to move and 00:58:48.299 --> 00:58:49.859 you're afraid at the same time they just 00:58:49.859 --> 00:58:52.440 like they're you're invisible to them so 00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:55.859 we we are we are incoherent our body and 00:58:55.859 --> 00:58:58.799 our intentions are incoherent so you 00:58:58.799 --> 00:59:02.640 can't uh get uh you you can it so it 00:59:02.640 --> 00:59:04.260 doesn't work if you try now I'm gonna 00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:06.500 stop 00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:10.819 matte and the result 00:59:16.020 --> 00:59:18.660 um I'm just trying to 00:59:18.660 --> 00:59:20.880 I guess get a bit more 00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:22.440 um clarity about this reflexive 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.480 awareness 00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:25.559 um 00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:27.960 I don't want to you know beat it into 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.359 the ground but 00:59:30.359 --> 00:59:32.099 so 00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:34.440 let me use another example so at work 00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:36.359 I'm a server and sometimes we can get 00:59:36.359 --> 00:59:38.460 pretty chaotic 00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:40.380 um you know you have like whatever 10 00:59:40.380 --> 00:59:42.119 tables one person wants this nobody 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.160 wants that and you can going on in 00:59:44.160 --> 00:59:46.319 the kitchen whatever 00:59:46.319 --> 00:59:48.059 um 00:59:48.059 --> 00:59:51.240 in those situations 00:59:51.240 --> 00:59:53.359 um 00:59:53.700 --> 00:59:56.099 would you say that a reflexive awareness 00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:58.700 would be 00:59:58.799 --> 01:00:01.740 being able to deal with all that stuff 01:00:01.740 --> 01:00:03.980 without being caught up 01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:07.500 in like your own fear of oh man I'm 01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:09.599 scared of saying this table 01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:11.339 because I forgot the order or something 01:00:11.339 --> 01:00:13.980 or I'm scared of like 01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:15.720 um you know asking the kitchen for 01:00:15.720 --> 01:00:16.859 something because I know they're already 01:00:16.859 --> 01:00:20.640 stressed or is it kind of like is it 01:00:20.640 --> 01:00:23.099 almost Anonymous with like a flow state 01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:26.579 or I I don't know I'm just trying to 01:00:26.579 --> 01:00:28.680 I'm not so clear about what that is the 01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:30.540 reflexive yeah it's a good question it's 01:00:30.540 --> 01:00:32.520 not a flow State because in a flow State 01:00:32.520 --> 01:00:35.940 it's more it's actually quite automatic 01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:39.119 yeah um and so you can get only get into 01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:43.200 flow States when your skill levels quite 01:00:43.200 --> 01:00:47.880 match to the task right so reflexive 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:52.200 awareness requires you to 01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:54.119 track 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:56.640 consciously track 01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:58.319 um 01:00:58.319 --> 01:01:01.440 subjective and objective reality at the 01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:02.819 same time 01:01:02.819 --> 01:01:05.339 um so the the perfect example is a 01:01:05.339 --> 01:01:07.920 negotiator like your tone of voice and 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.660 whether you're going to give something 01:01:09.660 --> 01:01:13.980 away and and you know you have to use 01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:16.140 you have to be conscious of your 01:01:16.140 --> 01:01:18.299 subjective State as 01:01:18.299 --> 01:01:23.420 a a skillful means whereas in in sports 01:01:23.420 --> 01:01:26.640 uh flow States a lot of music and sports 01:01:26.640 --> 01:01:30.059 and the subject it's much more objective 01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:31.920 skill 01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.520 um and a lot of times you notice there's 01:01:35.520 --> 01:01:37.140 a ritual where you control your 01:01:37.140 --> 01:01:39.000 subjective state so you're not afraid 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.859 and then you let the Flow State happen 01:01:40.859 --> 01:01:43.440 but these are situations where you have 01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:44.760 to 01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:49.260 um you have to be involved let's say or 01:01:49.260 --> 01:01:51.900 track your internal States unless it's 01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:53.640 so low stakes or you're so good at it 01:01:53.640 --> 01:01:57.119 you don't have to anymore you know 01:01:57.119 --> 01:01:58.500 um so 01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:00.960 so uh 01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:04.920 um but I would say that 01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:09.180 um what you're describing is so we're 01:02:09.180 --> 01:02:10.980 talking about 01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:13.260 um you know you're probably the stage 01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:15.780 where there's still an oscillation but 01:02:15.780 --> 01:02:17.760 you're probably spending too much time 01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:20.400 in the subjective reality except like oh 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:22.980 they waited two you know they waited one 01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:26.280 point you know they waited literally 80 01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:29.339 80 Seconds for that that's all and so 01:02:29.339 --> 01:02:31.740 that's an objective like the more 01:02:31.740 --> 01:02:34.619 objective markers are what's going on 01:02:34.619 --> 01:02:35.940 um versus 01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:36.060 um 01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:37.380 [Music] 01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:39.780 um tracking so much the subject of the 01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:43.160 subjective aspect of it 01:02:43.579 --> 01:02:47.880 or like when my first horse was having a 01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:49.799 baby I'd never seen any animal have a 01:02:49.799 --> 01:02:53.819 baby and I had read up about it and I I 01:02:53.819 --> 01:02:55.680 put a 01:02:55.680 --> 01:03:01.020 I put a a clock in the stall because I 01:03:01.020 --> 01:03:03.240 knew that the baby had to come out of 01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:05.700 the sack within like three minutes and I 01:03:05.700 --> 01:03:09.119 knew I would have no idea how long three 01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:11.819 minutes was because I would be too 01:03:11.819 --> 01:03:16.280 subjectively involved so this is the way 01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:18.900 this is the oscillation that happens 01:03:18.900 --> 01:03:22.680 it's just it's just what happens 01:03:22.680 --> 01:03:26.700 I remember I think I 01:03:26.700 --> 01:03:28.740 yeah I think one thing that you said 01:03:28.740 --> 01:03:31.559 that's really has helped me in the past 01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:33.619 with this kind of issue is like 01:03:33.619 --> 01:03:37.440 uh what was it something about 01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:39.599 don't assume you know what's going on 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:40.680 with them 01:03:40.680 --> 01:03:42.900 as sort of a first step towards them 01:03:42.900 --> 01:03:46.260 exactly and that like the other day I 01:03:46.260 --> 01:03:48.180 remember I had to ask the head chef a 01:03:48.180 --> 01:03:50.780 question and he's a you know 01:03:50.780 --> 01:03:53.059 you know 01:03:53.059 --> 01:03:55.680 chefsterfully but so basically you know 01:03:55.680 --> 01:03:57.299 whatever and I know it was already 01:03:57.299 --> 01:04:00.119 stressful environment and whatever and I 01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:01.740 just did that 01:04:01.740 --> 01:04:04.319 I could feel my Sensations the fear in 01:04:04.319 --> 01:04:06.720 my in my body but I remember also just 01:04:06.720 --> 01:04:08.640 looking at his eyes and asking him and 01:04:08.640 --> 01:04:09.780 like 01:04:09.780 --> 01:04:11.760 doing that kind of thing it almost felt 01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:14.099 almost like a suppression almost as well 01:04:14.099 --> 01:04:16.859 but I don't know or controlling but yeah 01:04:16.859 --> 01:04:19.140 yeah I mean you have to do what you can 01:04:19.140 --> 01:04:21.599 do you have to do you know one time 01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:24.660 there was a big brouhaha in my office 01:04:24.660 --> 01:04:27.720 because we had this guy Eric he was a 01:04:27.720 --> 01:04:30.180 wonderful guy he'd been he'd been an 01:04:30.180 --> 01:04:32.099 employee of that place forever when it 01:04:32.099 --> 01:04:35.400 was a very small but he was also 01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:36.119 um 01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:39.599 he was also I would say cognitively 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:42.900 disabled and as the company got more and 01:04:42.900 --> 01:04:45.000 more fancy we did more and more fancy 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.760 things and he had a period where he was 01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:50.280 playing around with drugs and he got a 01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:53.520 woman pregnant he had a trouble he had a 01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:57.359 troubled life and people were like well 01:04:57.359 --> 01:04:59.040 we have to get rid of Eric and other 01:04:59.040 --> 01:05:00.420 people were like we can't get rid of 01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:03.540 Eric you know he's been here forever 01:05:03.540 --> 01:05:05.940 um where else he's gonna go blah blah 01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:07.380 blah and it was this big fight and 01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:09.839 finally I just said you know this 01:05:09.839 --> 01:05:11.819 company is not going to go bankrupt 01:05:11.819 --> 01:05:14.040 because you keep Eric 01:05:14.040 --> 01:05:16.799 on the payroll like it was just 01:05:16.799 --> 01:05:19.520 ridiculous to have this whole 01:05:19.520 --> 01:05:22.799 psychological profiling of his life and 01:05:22.799 --> 01:05:25.079 what was he going to do we didn't keep 01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:28.380 him and loyalty when the truth is the 01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:31.079 stakes were not even worth talking about 01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:33.900 like just the objective truth was and 01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:37.020 then it was settled and and it was like 01:05:37.020 --> 01:05:39.359 no one felt like they won or lost right 01:05:39.359 --> 01:05:41.940 so like the power of the objective 01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:44.940 perspective is is really 01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:47.880 um is really lost in our society and the 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:50.339 thing is he stayed for another 18 months 01:05:50.339 --> 01:05:52.260 and then the state hired him and he had 01:05:52.260 --> 01:05:54.780 medical care for life and other stuff 01:05:54.780 --> 01:05:57.720 like like the whole universe opened up 01:05:57.720 --> 01:06:00.119 and we didn't even have to have them on 01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:03.660 on as an employee anymore but so there's 01:06:03.660 --> 01:06:06.299 so many times where like there's this 01:06:06.299 --> 01:06:08.579 brouhaha 01:06:08.579 --> 01:06:11.339 and the objective reality is quite 01:06:11.339 --> 01:06:13.980 simple and clear but you can't get to it 01:06:13.980 --> 01:06:17.099 and and so something like something like 01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:18.720 that 01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:20.520 um 01:06:20.520 --> 01:06:24.059 but it's not easy you know because we 01:06:24.059 --> 01:06:27.000 are we're Who We Are 01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:29.960 uh so 01:06:31.859 --> 01:06:34.380 the Katie question 01:06:34.380 --> 01:06:37.140 um goal number two noise 01:06:37.140 --> 01:06:38.420 um 01:06:38.420 --> 01:06:41.700 I this question was from a while ago oh 01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:43.380 it was about goals you were talking 01:06:43.380 --> 01:06:45.539 about if you don't have Clarity in your 01:06:45.539 --> 01:06:47.640 goal in a situation there can be a lot 01:06:47.640 --> 01:06:49.619 of anxiety 01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:51.180 um 01:06:51.180 --> 01:06:52.440 I might have been answering my own 01:06:52.440 --> 01:06:54.599 question as I thought about it but um I 01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:56.940 like I often have the opposite issue 01:06:56.940 --> 01:06:59.400 like if I'm going out 01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.319 um and I have some like a diffuse kind 01:07:01.319 --> 01:07:02.579 of far away goal that I don't really 01:07:02.579 --> 01:07:04.799 care if it happens today or not 01:07:04.799 --> 01:07:06.960 um and I'm going out like into a city to 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.280 try to make that happen say I don't know 01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:10.079 the way of the land or whatever 01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:13.260 I'm just like openly attuned to the 01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:15.299 coolest so I'm gonna find all of it 01:07:15.299 --> 01:07:16.920 and have an amazing day and somehow 01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:20.099 weave my way to this end point but if I 01:07:20.099 --> 01:07:21.180 have 01:07:21.180 --> 01:07:22.260 I guess maybe this is the difference 01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:24.660 between goals and plans 01:07:24.660 --> 01:07:26.760 um like if I have a 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.180 too much of a plan then there's like 01:07:30.180 --> 01:07:32.220 constant friction with the plan every 01:07:32.220 --> 01:07:36.480 step yeah like just anxiety constantly 01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:38.099 um so I'm wondering like how do you 01:07:38.099 --> 01:07:39.780 think about goals and plans and anxiety 01:07:39.780 --> 01:07:42.000 versus yeah it's actually a perfect 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.720 distinction strong goals open plans 01:07:45.720 --> 01:07:48.780 right so so 01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:51.180 um and and that's what like Thomas 01:07:51.180 --> 01:07:53.640 bjorkman would say you have a North star 01:07:53.640 --> 01:07:57.720 you have your goal yes and that steers 01:07:57.720 --> 01:08:00.839 you to through and in and out the 01:08:00.839 --> 01:08:02.400 non-linear 01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:06.539 um Journey uh that takes you there 01:08:06.539 --> 01:08:08.880 um and so 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:09.720 um 01:08:09.720 --> 01:08:12.180 so even like you're saying I I visit a 01:08:12.180 --> 01:08:15.240 new city and I I find cool places that's 01:08:15.240 --> 01:08:17.160 a pretty clear goal 01:08:17.160 --> 01:08:19.319 I want to find cool places without a 01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:21.359 plan that's a pretty clear goal and 01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:23.699 you'll notice it it steers your 01:08:23.699 --> 01:08:26.339 decisions right so 01:08:26.339 --> 01:08:27.130 um 01:08:27.130 --> 01:08:27.179 [Music] 01:08:27.179 --> 01:08:28.859 um 01:08:28.859 --> 01:08:30.719 if it was the first time you have went 01:08:30.719 --> 01:08:33.839 to a city and your goal was that 01:08:33.839 --> 01:08:35.819 but you're used to planning and you're 01:08:35.819 --> 01:08:38.520 nervous then you'd have incoherent goals 01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:41.339 right you kind of want that but 01:08:41.339 --> 01:08:43.020 you start planning because you're 01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:46.319 nervous when you get there and so the 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:49.140 the goals doesn't mean their goals 01:08:49.140 --> 01:08:51.120 aren't both good they're just you're 01:08:51.120 --> 01:08:54.000 you're you're incoherent you know you're 01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.819 some of this and some of that and 01:08:56.819 --> 01:08:59.339 cool yeah 01:08:59.339 --> 01:09:01.940 thank you 01:09:10.580 --> 01:09:14.339 would it necessarily always be 01:09:14.339 --> 01:09:16.739 great to always just have one goal 01:09:16.739 --> 01:09:17.940 though like 01:09:17.940 --> 01:09:19.560 to me that seems like a really tough 01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:22.620 thing to do for me anyway like no just 01:09:22.620 --> 01:09:24.060 it's just 01:09:24.060 --> 01:09:27.500 I mean in many cases 01:09:28.500 --> 01:09:30.540 you know you don't really have 01:09:30.540 --> 01:09:33.000 goals you're just you're just 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.100 going with the flow or something because 01:09:35.100 --> 01:09:37.560 it's an experience and it's it's you 01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:39.540 know I mean you might there are some 01:09:39.540 --> 01:09:42.960 goals like some some Rewards or benefits 01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.179 to doing what you're doing but if you're 01:09:45.179 --> 01:09:48.239 going to uh in our scenario be you know 01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:50.580 you're in a risky situation and you want 01:09:50.580 --> 01:09:51.960 to stake 01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:54.480 put a stake in the ground 01:09:54.480 --> 01:09:56.460 um you better be sure you have clear 01:09:56.460 --> 01:09:58.560 goals or else 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:00.660 you're not going to be coherent in your 01:10:00.660 --> 01:10:06.000 actions so if if Liz wanted to save her 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:09.060 dog and she was terribly afraid of 01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:10.920 herself at the same time her action 01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:12.780 would be incoherent and it wouldn't have 01:10:12.780 --> 01:10:14.699 flowed the same way she would have been 01:10:14.699 --> 01:10:16.080 like a little bit of this and a little 01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:17.940 bit of that and a little bit of this and 01:10:17.940 --> 01:10:19.320 a little bit of that 01:10:19.320 --> 01:10:21.600 um but she had a very clear goal and so 01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:25.320 her actions were were coherent 01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:28.340 um and Powerful 01:10:28.620 --> 01:10:30.719 yeah I just wanted to say about that it 01:10:30.719 --> 01:10:32.760 was really interesting because I wasn't 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:34.620 swayed 01:10:34.620 --> 01:10:37.739 from my goal by the bear coming toward 01:10:37.739 --> 01:10:41.940 me like at all I didn't it it wasn't it 01:10:41.940 --> 01:10:44.219 wasn't what was most relevant well the 01:10:44.219 --> 01:10:46.380 situation changed and you responded to 01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:48.719 it but you didn't change your goal yes 01:10:48.719 --> 01:10:51.000 so you didn't say my goal is to save my 01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:52.920 dog and when the bear stands in front of 01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:55.320 you you keep going straight that's not 01:10:55.320 --> 01:10:57.900 what happened but throughout all the 01:10:57.900 --> 01:11:00.600 movements it was the same goal that 01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:03.300 creates coherent action and it's very 01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:06.120 powerful it's powerful for the bear 01:11:06.120 --> 01:11:09.179 um if if you're working with a stallion 01:11:09.179 --> 01:11:11.699 you have a goal and then you start to 01:11:11.699 --> 01:11:13.860 renegani that's when you get you get 01:11:13.860 --> 01:11:16.020 more hurt because you're inconsistent 01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:19.320 incoherent and 01:11:19.320 --> 01:11:22.159 um yeah 01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:28.679 but it feels like kind of like where you 01:11:28.679 --> 01:11:30.860 went with us last call 01:11:30.860 --> 01:11:33.179 having like 01:11:33.179 --> 01:11:37.199 being able to come into a level of 01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:40.020 awareness that you're not holding on to 01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:42.060 anything 01:11:42.060 --> 01:11:46.100 because as the next thing is emerging 01:11:46.100 --> 01:11:50.280 you're letting go of the simulation that 01:11:50.280 --> 01:11:52.260 you might have had a moment ago about 01:11:52.260 --> 01:11:54.600 like you're not carrying the simulation 01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:57.540 with you into the new moment yeah so 01:11:57.540 --> 01:11:59.940 that's the perfect definition of a 01:11:59.940 --> 01:12:02.880 reflexive awareness it's in the moment 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:05.580 you're not trying to take little 01:12:05.580 --> 01:12:08.460 pictures and reflect on what was that 01:12:08.460 --> 01:12:10.739 you know you're not oscillating between 01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:12.840 little pictures of the past and then 01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:15.360 little plans and then you insert them in 01:12:15.360 --> 01:12:16.560 the moment 01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:19.560 reflexive awareness is in the moment now 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:22.320 if you reflect as you did on your 01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:24.960 experience beautifully 01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:26.900 um you will notice 01:12:26.900 --> 01:12:30.179 that there you know this lack of 01:12:30.179 --> 01:12:32.820 oscillation and more like the flow that 01:12:32.820 --> 01:12:35.159 that that you but like in the boardroom 01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:37.679 we get all we get all goal-oriented and 01:12:37.679 --> 01:12:39.060 we're on there and then the little thing 01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:40.800 goes on well 01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.719 you feel ashamed because people are 01:12:42.719 --> 01:12:44.580 staring at you you know now all of a 01:12:44.580 --> 01:12:46.440 sudden you're out of reflexive awareness 01:12:46.440 --> 01:12:49.199 you're stuck into oh I mean the story of 01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:53.159 you know shame or something like that 01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:55.980 um yeah so that you don't you're not you 01:12:55.980 --> 01:12:58.440 don't oscillate you don't you can't 01:12:58.440 --> 01:13:01.860 freeze in one mode or the other you're 01:13:01.860 --> 01:13:04.320 just reflexive awareness is in the 01:13:04.320 --> 01:13:05.940 moment 01:13:05.940 --> 01:13:07.920 but it's not like a flow State I mean it 01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:10.080 can have some feeling of Flow State but 01:13:10.080 --> 01:13:12.900 as you report it you're tracking so much 01:13:12.900 --> 01:13:15.840 and in in real flow you don't track so 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:16.860 much 01:13:16.860 --> 01:13:19.739 at the same time I mean you 01:13:19.739 --> 01:13:21.179 yeah 01:13:21.179 --> 01:13:23.420 well and I want to say that that that 01:13:23.420 --> 01:13:26.400 very strong 01:13:26.400 --> 01:13:30.239 almost an intuition to not 01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.719 solidify this into a story of this is 01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:37.020 what happened it felt like if I if I 01:13:37.020 --> 01:13:39.780 that and then it's a simulation then 01:13:39.780 --> 01:13:43.500 what happened is the simulation I I had 01:13:43.500 --> 01:13:46.320 the strongest to just let it be porous 01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:48.920 and let it be keep becoming whatever 01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:51.780 whatever it is I want it to be whatever 01:13:51.780 --> 01:13:54.120 story you know whatever memory whatever 01:13:54.120 --> 01:13:55.940 experience it is 01:13:55.940 --> 01:13:58.980 the next time I think of it as whatever 01:13:58.980 --> 01:14:01.739 emerges in that moment right not what I 01:14:01.739 --> 01:14:04.260 have made it to be that I now carry with 01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:05.640 me yeah 01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:07.920 you didn't take a selfie well it's just 01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:10.340 happening 01:14:13.080 --> 01:14:15.420 okay let's get on to the next slide this 01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:17.780 was good 01:14:21.300 --> 01:14:24.920 they have very clear goals 01:14:25.440 --> 01:14:27.840 all right the next slide let's see what 01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:30.120 you make out of this I only have two 01:14:30.120 --> 01:14:32.480 slides 01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:37.620 okay 01:14:37.620 --> 01:14:39.000 um 01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:42.179 so and this this reason why we're moving 01:14:42.179 --> 01:14:45.060 on to it is because something of that 01:14:45.060 --> 01:14:47.940 Liz just said is 01:14:47.940 --> 01:14:50.040 kind of rolling over into it okay so we 01:14:50.040 --> 01:14:52.440 have that we have this slide come on 01:14:52.440 --> 01:14:55.860 come on come on come on you can do it 01:14:55.860 --> 01:14:59.580 you can do it okay so 01:14:59.580 --> 01:15:02.520 now I'm trying I'm just going oh did I 01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:04.739 put is the recording on this can I even 01:15:04.739 --> 01:15:08.699 see if the recordings on recordings okay 01:15:08.699 --> 01:15:10.560 so 01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:14.420 um now we're going to try to bring home 01:15:14.420 --> 01:15:18.120 this this non-dual 01:15:18.120 --> 01:15:19.760 uh 01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:23.000 understanding of awareness 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:28.940 and see that in a sense all sentient 01:15:28.940 --> 01:15:34.020 beings are no different than us 01:15:34.020 --> 01:15:36.480 um and I mean that's kind of a simple 01:15:36.480 --> 01:15:39.659 way to put it but I I'm giving you the 01:15:39.659 --> 01:15:41.040 conclusion at the beginning because it's 01:15:41.040 --> 01:15:44.640 quite quite hard to explain and this 01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:48.739 isn't the best presentation of it and so 01:15:48.739 --> 01:15:51.960 what so for example 01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:54.360 this has to do with what we're playing 01:15:54.360 --> 01:15:57.000 around with last time in the course 01:15:57.000 --> 01:16:00.060 content like I'm aware that I see a 01:16:00.060 --> 01:16:01.920 garden pretend to pretend you're in this 01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:03.960 Garden at first you're just looking and 01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.000 then you're like aware that you're 01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.460 seeing this beautiful garden right 01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:12.420 so you're aware of the the experience 01:16:12.420 --> 01:16:14.640 that you're experiencing Beauty it's not 01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:17.340 as naive as just looking at the looking 01:16:17.340 --> 01:16:20.060 at this metal 01:16:20.820 --> 01:16:22.980 then I could do something trippy and be 01:16:22.980 --> 01:16:26.460 like oh what's aware of 01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:28.980 what's aware of being aware of this 01:16:28.980 --> 01:16:31.140 metal and then I could say what's aware 01:16:31.140 --> 01:16:33.060 of being aware 01:16:33.060 --> 01:16:36.780 being aware of this metal okay so this 01:16:36.780 --> 01:16:39.060 this is the phenomenon we're going to 01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:42.420 look at it do do people really have 01:16:42.420 --> 01:16:47.280 more complex experiences than uh than 01:16:47.280 --> 01:16:49.260 direct experience so I'm just looking at 01:16:49.260 --> 01:16:51.239 this meta and then I'm aware that I'm 01:16:51.239 --> 01:16:52.800 looking at it I'm aware I'm sitting 01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:56.520 there it's a nice day I'm looking at it 01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:58.640 um and then something happens 01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:02.340 that then so now I'm aware that I'm 01:17:02.340 --> 01:17:07.219 looking at a meta a metal metal 01:17:07.320 --> 01:17:10.860 so the question is is this a different 01:17:10.860 --> 01:17:13.860 kind of experience than just looking at 01:17:13.860 --> 01:17:16.199 the meadow is being aware that you're 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:18.679 looking at the metal metal 01:17:18.679 --> 01:17:22.679 somehow more 01:17:22.739 --> 01:17:26.219 a higher or meta more meta to just 01:17:26.219 --> 01:17:29.820 looking at the metal is there more 01:17:29.820 --> 01:17:32.880 distance between you and the object of 01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:36.980 awareness here than here 01:17:37.380 --> 01:17:40.380 so here the object of awareness is just 01:17:40.380 --> 01:17:43.140 the meadow here the object of awareness 01:17:43.140 --> 01:17:46.880 is that I'm aware of the meta 01:17:47.340 --> 01:17:50.179 and then of course now I can be aware 01:17:50.179 --> 01:17:52.980 that I'm aware of the meadow 01:17:52.980 --> 01:17:54.360 and 01:17:54.360 --> 01:17:57.480 I can be aware that I'm aware that I'm 01:17:57.480 --> 01:17:59.880 aware of the metal 01:17:59.880 --> 01:18:02.780 and then what I want you to understand 01:18:02.780 --> 01:18:06.780 is that 01:18:07.020 --> 01:18:09.840 the structure of the thought is getting 01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:12.739 more complex 01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:16.860 but the structure of the experience is 01:18:16.860 --> 01:18:19.340 the same 01:18:19.980 --> 01:18:24.000 so this thought that has different 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:27.780 levels is still just 01:18:27.780 --> 01:18:30.600 I'm just aware of this thought the 01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:32.400 thought itself the structure of the 01:18:32.400 --> 01:18:34.440 thought itself has gotten more complex 01:18:34.440 --> 01:18:37.860 but I'm simply aware of it 01:18:37.860 --> 01:18:41.820 there's never more 01:18:41.820 --> 01:18:44.760 little selves being aware of something 01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:47.159 there's never an infinite series of 01:18:47.159 --> 01:18:49.560 Consciousness the structure of the 01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:51.420 thought that I'm aware of is more 01:18:51.420 --> 01:18:53.580 complex but the structure of the 01:18:53.580 --> 01:18:56.840 experience is the same 01:18:57.239 --> 01:18:59.820 as being in the meadow where now I'm 01:18:59.820 --> 01:19:02.580 just aware of the meta now I'm just 01:19:02.580 --> 01:19:04.920 aware of this thought that I've made 01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:07.440 more complex 01:19:07.440 --> 01:19:09.360 and so 01:19:09.360 --> 01:19:13.260 it's it's it's this there's no there's 01:19:13.260 --> 01:19:17.640 no it's all just awareness all simple 01:19:17.640 --> 01:19:19.920 sensory motor awareness 01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:21.659 it's just 01:19:21.659 --> 01:19:24.840 being a you know I'm aware that my hands 01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:25.980 are moving 01:19:25.980 --> 01:19:29.580 I'm aware that I'm seeing the meadow 01:19:29.580 --> 01:19:33.360 and this structure and it doesn't matter 01:19:33.360 --> 01:19:36.420 how complex the thought is it's not 01:19:36.420 --> 01:19:39.719 further removed it's just one level of 01:19:39.719 --> 01:19:43.380 awareness so the structure of the 01:19:43.380 --> 01:19:46.500 thought is has gotten more complex 01:19:46.500 --> 01:19:48.659 but the structure of the experience is 01:19:48.659 --> 01:19:51.179 the same you're just aware of it 01:19:51.179 --> 01:19:53.640 does that make sense 01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.520 there's many varieties of this 01:19:56.520 --> 01:19:57.380 um 01:19:57.380 --> 01:19:59.580 that you know that are so subtle 01:19:59.580 --> 01:20:01.320 sometimes you don't recognize them as 01:20:01.320 --> 01:20:04.199 the same trap but this is the same trap 01:20:04.199 --> 01:20:08.340 and this is very important in in terms 01:20:08.340 --> 01:20:10.320 of uh 01:20:10.320 --> 01:20:12.380 um 01:20:12.860 --> 01:20:16.040 understanding a lot of traps in in 01:20:16.040 --> 01:20:19.739 post-modern and complex thoughts 01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:21.000 um 01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:24.060 so uh 01:20:24.060 --> 01:20:25.199 um 01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:27.600 whatever for whatever it's worth I don't 01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:29.460 know if anybody has any comment on that 01:20:29.460 --> 01:20:33.719 but but uh 01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:38.580 it's very important to 01:20:38.580 --> 01:20:42.540 gain to that stance of awareness that is 01:20:42.540 --> 01:20:44.960 just 01:20:45.540 --> 01:20:48.179 intimate with what you're aware of 01:20:48.179 --> 01:20:51.239 and then you can notice that it's you 01:20:51.239 --> 01:20:53.159 it's usually thoughts that are getting 01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:54.659 very complex 01:20:54.659 --> 01:20:58.140 but not be driven as if you you're drawn 01:20:58.140 --> 01:21:01.260 into like you're inside Hall of Mirrors 01:21:01.260 --> 01:21:03.420 and there's so much complexity because 01:21:03.420 --> 01:21:06.360 once you're once you think okay that was 01:21:06.360 --> 01:21:08.520 me then and now it's me and and you have 01:21:08.520 --> 01:21:10.140 you're positing all these different 01:21:10.140 --> 01:21:11.880 selves that are all in these different 01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:14.340 layers of complexity you can't operate 01:21:14.340 --> 01:21:16.860 on the thing that you're aware of you're 01:21:16.860 --> 01:21:18.900 in the simulation 01:21:18.900 --> 01:21:22.520 and so this is kind of a high 01:21:22.520 --> 01:21:25.020 metacognitive teaching 01:21:25.020 --> 01:21:26.580 um but 01:21:26.580 --> 01:21:30.000 um it's something you might remember if 01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:32.280 you ever get 01:21:32.280 --> 01:21:34.860 um it's it's a lot of 01:21:34.860 --> 01:21:37.199 um if you go back and read my after 01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:40.260 before Socrates it's a lot of what is 01:21:40.260 --> 01:21:43.980 wrong with what John dravaki is doing is 01:21:43.980 --> 01:21:46.940 if there's all these different levels 01:21:46.940 --> 01:21:50.820 that the self is inhabiting these are 01:21:50.820 --> 01:21:53.460 just more complex thoughts that the self 01:21:53.460 --> 01:21:56.040 is aware of it's it's not like there's 01:21:56.040 --> 01:21:59.300 little homunculus that are moving 01:21:59.300 --> 01:22:02.940 moving into different realities 01:22:02.940 --> 01:22:04.739 um so this the reason why this is 01:22:04.739 --> 01:22:06.719 important is because of our project of 01:22:06.719 --> 01:22:09.840 putting the Mind back into the body 01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:12.719 um awareness of these complex thoughts 01:22:12.719 --> 01:22:16.940 is very similar to simple purse 01:22:16.940 --> 01:22:19.440 perceptual awareness in the sense that 01:22:19.440 --> 01:22:20.940 it's not 01:22:20.940 --> 01:22:23.760 infinitely removed 01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:25.880 um 01:22:26.400 --> 01:22:29.040 yeah it's not infinitely removed it 01:22:29.040 --> 01:22:31.320 problematizes Keegan's subject object 01:22:31.320 --> 01:22:34.380 move uh because the subject object move 01:22:34.380 --> 01:22:37.520 is happening in the thought experiment 01:22:37.520 --> 01:22:42.420 not in the uh relationship between you 01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:46.820 and what you're aware of itself 01:22:48.199 --> 01:22:51.120 so that may be interesting to some 01:22:51.120 --> 01:22:53.360 people 01:22:56.219 --> 01:22:58.500 does that make sense 01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:00.659 yeah it reminds me of a conversation I 01:23:00.659 --> 01:23:02.580 had a little while back and someone was 01:23:02.580 --> 01:23:05.040 saying you know um I meditate while I'm 01:23:05.040 --> 01:23:06.300 on my bike 01:23:06.300 --> 01:23:07.800 and I was like why don't you just ride 01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:10.260 your bike you know like 01:23:10.260 --> 01:23:12.840 you know just ride the bike so I don't 01:23:12.840 --> 01:23:13.980 know if that's kind of what you're 01:23:13.980 --> 01:23:16.320 you're pointing to something something 01:23:16.320 --> 01:23:17.580 like 01:23:17.580 --> 01:23:19.260 uh 01:23:19.260 --> 01:23:21.239 depends what they 01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:23.580 what they meant but 01:23:23.580 --> 01:23:25.860 or they could say I find riding my bike 01:23:25.860 --> 01:23:28.800 very very meditative or contemplate or 01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:30.480 something like that 01:23:30.480 --> 01:23:32.640 um but it's a distancing you know it's 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:35.699 it's a subtle distance in between 01:23:35.699 --> 01:23:38.280 it it it distanced the embodied 01:23:38.280 --> 01:23:40.860 experience from the mind that wants to 01:23:40.860 --> 01:23:44.159 simulate it and look at it or or 01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:47.460 um and again mental stimulation is great 01:23:47.460 --> 01:23:49.199 I mean we're mentally stimulating now 01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:50.940 that we're together with each other and 01:23:50.940 --> 01:23:53.520 stuff like that but the awareness of 01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:56.040 that uh that it's a simulation makes it 01:23:56.040 --> 01:23:58.320 obvious that it's optional and obvious 01:23:58.320 --> 01:24:01.199 uh you know you have a lot a lot more 01:24:01.199 --> 01:24:02.100 choice 01:24:02.100 --> 01:24:05.159 but it just it's it's just you know 01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:07.140 Wilbur I could hear Wilbur saying how 01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:10.199 flat land you know my 01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:12.600 I just live in Flatlands 01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:13.739 um 01:24:13.739 --> 01:24:18.179 so uh I get it but this is 01:24:18.179 --> 01:24:20.219 um 01:24:20.219 --> 01:24:22.739 what I've gone to come to believe 01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:25.500 right it's like a flat land it's 01:24:25.500 --> 01:24:27.659 completely flat land this is not the 01:24:27.659 --> 01:24:31.380 kind of world I'm trying to uh trying to 01:24:31.380 --> 01:24:33.420 articulate it's actually very rich but 01:24:33.420 --> 01:24:35.699 from a certain perspective it can feel 01:24:35.699 --> 01:24:38.900 very flat flat landish 01:24:38.900 --> 01:24:42.840 it feels like what you're what what I 01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:45.659 feel when you are sharing this is like 01:24:45.659 --> 01:24:47.460 when you showed the pictures of the Mind 01:24:47.460 --> 01:24:48.719 thinking about the Mind thinking about 01:24:48.719 --> 01:24:51.960 the experience of the garden versus the 01:24:51.960 --> 01:24:53.040 garden 01:24:53.040 --> 01:24:54.659 it's like 01:24:54.659 --> 01:24:58.560 it's all right there already like what 01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:02.340 are we trying to add to like and the 01:25:02.340 --> 01:25:05.940 adding is actually taking us out of the 01:25:05.940 --> 01:25:07.440 direct 01:25:07.440 --> 01:25:10.020 experience you can be in relationship 01:25:10.020 --> 01:25:11.940 with your mind the same way you're in 01:25:11.940 --> 01:25:13.620 relationship with the garden you could 01:25:13.620 --> 01:25:16.020 just see it working 01:25:16.020 --> 01:25:21.120 and now so now but but then if you say 01:25:21.120 --> 01:25:23.159 well if I can see my mind working then 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:24.600 what's what's 01:25:24.600 --> 01:25:26.280 and I'm aware of that you don't want to 01:25:26.280 --> 01:25:27.659 get into this 01:25:27.659 --> 01:25:31.580 this complete infinite regression of 01:25:31.580 --> 01:25:35.159 patterns of of thought and so to see 01:25:35.159 --> 01:25:37.140 your mind working is a beautiful thing 01:25:37.140 --> 01:25:40.500 can be like as beautiful as a garden 01:25:40.500 --> 01:25:43.380 um it could be ugly too you know 01:25:43.380 --> 01:25:47.040 um but to to be aware 01:25:47.040 --> 01:25:49.440 you know reflexively aware 01:25:49.440 --> 01:25:52.080 of uh just like you you were for 01:25:52.080 --> 01:25:54.420 flexibly aware of maybe you gotten too 01:25:54.420 --> 01:25:56.820 nervous you can be reflexively aware of 01:25:56.820 --> 01:25:59.940 oh look at this thing that my mind is 01:25:59.940 --> 01:26:02.280 doing with this awareness oh I look it's 01:26:02.280 --> 01:26:04.440 composing of home isn't that interesting 01:26:04.440 --> 01:26:06.060 you know now 01:26:06.060 --> 01:26:08.280 that sounds like a lot of distance but 01:26:08.280 --> 01:26:11.880 but you can appreciate it from from that 01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:13.800 awareness also but there's only one 01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:16.199 level of awareness there's never there 01:26:16.199 --> 01:26:19.620 that everything else is the object that 01:26:19.620 --> 01:26:21.300 you're aware of you're letting 01:26:21.300 --> 01:26:23.940 complexify and you're just aware of a 01:26:23.940 --> 01:26:27.139 more complex object 01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:31.139 um yeah 01:26:31.139 --> 01:26:33.239 some people are smelling I think more I 01:26:33.239 --> 01:26:36.239 think this was maybe meaningful to Marie 01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:38.760 maybe not it's just goes against 01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:41.760 integral Theory so here 01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:44.219 I got off on integral Theory it's kind 01:26:44.219 --> 01:26:46.400 of 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:52.260 when you say like 01:26:52.260 --> 01:26:54.300 you know you're you're looking at the 01:26:54.300 --> 01:26:56.580 Garden then you're aware of yourself 01:26:56.580 --> 01:27:00.139 looking at a garden Etc 01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:05.480 to me that's like 01:27:05.639 --> 01:27:09.239 that sounds like an exercise in 01:27:09.239 --> 01:27:11.639 like adding 01:27:11.639 --> 01:27:14.520 complexity like and I don't know if the 01:27:14.520 --> 01:27:17.239 being aware 01:27:17.460 --> 01:27:20.600 of looking at the Garden 01:27:20.639 --> 01:27:23.400 is like do you mean it as like it's a 01:27:23.400 --> 01:27:25.080 thought in your head like oh I'm aware 01:27:25.080 --> 01:27:27.360 like or is it more of like 01:27:27.360 --> 01:27:29.880 uh more of experiential awareness of 01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:30.960 like 01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:32.280 it's not necessarily thought in your 01:27:32.280 --> 01:27:34.620 head but you're just oh you're aware 01:27:34.620 --> 01:27:37.739 your your awareness has grown to 01:27:37.739 --> 01:27:39.480 realize you are looking at the Garden 01:27:39.480 --> 01:27:44.659 well then that's the question isn't it 01:27:49.739 --> 01:27:52.080 are there two things happening are you 01:27:52.080 --> 01:27:54.000 looking at the Garden and seeing the 01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:56.239 garden 01:27:57.300 --> 01:27:59.820 and then being aware of it or are you 01:27:59.820 --> 01:28:01.139 looking at the Garden and seeing the 01:28:01.139 --> 01:28:04.560 garden and then suddenly imputing a 01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:07.080 simulation that you're looking at which 01:28:07.080 --> 01:28:09.120 is called I'm aware of looking at the 01:28:09.120 --> 01:28:11.340 Garden that's what it seems like to me 01:28:11.340 --> 01:28:14.699 yeah so this is the 60 million dollar 01:28:14.699 --> 01:28:16.260 question 01:28:16.260 --> 01:28:17.699 because it feels like I'm doing 01:28:17.699 --> 01:28:19.139 something 01:28:19.139 --> 01:28:20.580 yeah I don't know 01:28:20.580 --> 01:28:22.860 but you know 01:28:22.860 --> 01:28:24.840 the thought experiment I set up is 01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:29.540 pretty simplistic but the experiences 01:28:29.540 --> 01:28:33.380 are are 01:28:36.300 --> 01:28:38.460 you know the question is is every time 01:28:38.460 --> 01:28:40.560 you're aware of something in your 01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:42.120 consciousness 01:28:42.120 --> 01:28:45.480 is is every time you are aware of 01:28:45.480 --> 01:28:47.100 something in your Consciousness actually 01:28:47.100 --> 01:28:51.480 a simulation that you're looking at 01:28:51.480 --> 01:28:54.000 is it is or is 01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:57.500 is does awareness this is the slippery 01:28:57.500 --> 01:29:01.320 slope we played with or as awareness 01:29:01.320 --> 01:29:04.620 and the perceptual experience the same 01:29:04.620 --> 01:29:06.920 thing 01:29:11.219 --> 01:29:13.380 seems like we should just not teach like 01:29:13.380 --> 01:29:15.540 all these stuff and just have people 01:29:15.540 --> 01:29:17.840 like because it just seems like we can't 01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:20.699 complexify things too much I don't know 01:29:20.699 --> 01:29:25.920 wow this is a this is an esoteric module 01:29:25.920 --> 01:29:27.120 um 01:29:27.120 --> 01:29:29.520 but you know some people are doing or 01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:31.320 this is a big part of like what people 01:29:31.320 --> 01:29:35.300 exploring in these psycho Technologies 01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:40.560 like whenever I noticed like because I 01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:42.780 stopped meditating for like months now 01:29:42.780 --> 01:29:44.760 and I notice 01:29:44.760 --> 01:29:47.400 whenever I start to meditate 01:29:47.400 --> 01:29:50.480 feels more off 01:29:51.120 --> 01:29:55.139 yeah I ruin everything yeah 01:29:55.139 --> 01:29:58.199 um well these are interesting questions 01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:00.120 um 01:30:00.120 --> 01:30:02.239 um 01:30:05.820 --> 01:30:08.219 yeah they're interesting questions now 01:30:08.219 --> 01:30:10.860 jenlyn would say that 01:30:10.860 --> 01:30:15.120 um there's en one that's when the body 01:30:15.120 --> 01:30:17.520 and the environment are the same and so 01:30:17.520 --> 01:30:19.980 you would perceive and you would 01:30:19.980 --> 01:30:22.860 function but you would not be aware of 01:30:22.860 --> 01:30:25.020 proceeding and functioning 01:30:25.020 --> 01:30:27.900 that's what he would say is Ground Zero 01:30:27.900 --> 01:30:29.520 he calls it one because he calls 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:31.980 something else Ground Zero which is 01:30:31.980 --> 01:30:34.679 highly problematic to me but it's very 01:30:34.679 --> 01:30:37.520 confusing so so 01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:39.960 you know 01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:41.580 um 01:30:41.580 --> 01:30:43.800 that's what he would say that that at 01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:46.800 the bottom the environment in the body 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:50.340 are the same and then awareness is a 01:30:50.340 --> 01:30:53.239 slight oscillation it's a slight 01:30:53.239 --> 01:30:56.699 imputation is this it's a thought 01:30:56.699 --> 01:30:59.760 a thought that gets 01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:03.020 subtly displaces the original experience 01:31:03.020 --> 01:31:06.840 now all of this is what I call Buddhist 01:31:06.840 --> 01:31:08.159 Scholastics 01:31:08.159 --> 01:31:10.800 um it's it's 01:31:10.800 --> 01:31:14.159 probably more dependent upon language 01:31:14.159 --> 01:31:16.260 and mental models than what you can 01:31:16.260 --> 01:31:21.540 resolve from a meditative experience 01:31:21.540 --> 01:31:22.080 um 01:31:22.080 --> 01:31:25.260 it depends how you slice the concepts I 01:31:25.260 --> 01:31:28.260 think but he would say that 01:31:28.260 --> 01:31:32.159 yeah that awareness is 01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:34.340 um 01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:39.000 is the second order you know he says the 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:42.300 body carries forward into images and 01:31:42.300 --> 01:31:46.080 it's a second order so it's in N3 01:31:46.080 --> 01:31:47.880 it's just still something the body does 01:31:47.880 --> 01:31:50.940 but it's it's it's something else than 01:31:50.940 --> 01:31:54.540 just uh direct perception 01:31:54.540 --> 01:31:56.820 and then it gets complexified after that 01:31:56.820 --> 01:32:01.040 and these these kind of occursions 01:32:01.620 --> 01:32:04.080 um Kevin I want to call you David so 01:32:04.080 --> 01:32:07.920 badly Kevin David 01:32:08.100 --> 01:32:10.080 hi Bonnie I have a question about like 01:32:10.080 --> 01:32:14.540 Free Will and awareness oh 01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:16.320 um because I 01:32:16.320 --> 01:32:18.840 so I think you know Sam Harris his whole 01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:20.219 thing here's the whole thing where he's 01:32:20.219 --> 01:32:21.960 like oh yeah like 01:32:21.960 --> 01:32:24.120 you can think or you can make a choice 01:32:24.120 --> 01:32:26.340 but you can't or like you can have a 01:32:26.340 --> 01:32:27.420 thought you can't choose what to think 01:32:27.420 --> 01:32:29.340 about and if if you're kind of 01:32:29.340 --> 01:32:31.320 meditating and you're 01:32:31.320 --> 01:32:33.480 aware of thoughts that come up you can't 01:32:33.480 --> 01:32:36.719 really control like and I I've had them 01:32:36.719 --> 01:32:38.520 noticed my own kind of fluctuation in 01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:41.699 Life or like my own I guess subjective 01:32:41.699 --> 01:32:43.320 experience whereas like 01:32:43.320 --> 01:32:46.800 sometimes it feels like oh like I I 01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:48.300 don't really have control of what I 01:32:48.300 --> 01:32:49.980 think of or what I do so it's kind of 01:32:49.980 --> 01:32:52.199 more LED things up to the source or 01:32:52.199 --> 01:32:54.900 whatever but then other times I feel 01:32:54.900 --> 01:32:57.840 like I'm more in control like the 01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:00.420 choices and the thoughts and emotions 01:33:00.420 --> 01:33:02.760 that I'm wondering how that kind of 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:04.260 like 01:33:04.260 --> 01:33:06.960 the the like the Free Will of like what 01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:10.139 I'm choosing to think or do relates to 01:33:10.139 --> 01:33:11.520 your like 01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:14.219 your axis of subjective versus objective 01:33:14.219 --> 01:33:16.620 and how it relates to awareness if that 01:33:16.620 --> 01:33:17.520 makes sense 01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:20.880 yeah it's a it's a question and I have 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:22.860 to it so 01:33:22.860 --> 01:33:25.860 um okay so when I noticed that my 01:33:25.860 --> 01:33:28.280 thoughts 01:33:28.500 --> 01:33:31.260 that I am not thinking my thoughts but I 01:33:31.260 --> 01:33:33.780 can notice them percolating up and there 01:33:33.780 --> 01:33:35.880 they come and I actually can get this 01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:37.920 sense so here comes a thought and I can 01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:40.920 breathe through it so it doesn't come uh 01:33:40.920 --> 01:33:42.900 well then did I control it or not but 01:33:42.900 --> 01:33:45.540 anyways so you can start to witness that 01:33:45.540 --> 01:33:47.880 these thoughts they're self-generated 01:33:47.880 --> 01:33:51.000 and they come from like nowhere impulses 01:33:51.000 --> 01:33:52.920 thoughts they wake up in the morning 01:33:52.920 --> 01:33:55.139 they don't make myself wake up in the 01:33:55.139 --> 01:33:59.460 morning I I process insulin 01:33:59.460 --> 01:34:01.860 um so now you see the eye I process 01:34:01.860 --> 01:34:05.040 insulin and I don't choose to process 01:34:05.040 --> 01:34:08.699 insulin my pancreas does that for me so 01:34:08.699 --> 01:34:12.179 that's not me but at the at the level of 01:34:12.179 --> 01:34:14.820 working with people who are full free 01:34:14.820 --> 01:34:16.980 choice 01:34:16.980 --> 01:34:20.100 so one of the problems here is when 01:34:20.100 --> 01:34:22.020 you're doing that meditation and you see 01:34:22.020 --> 01:34:24.600 that thoughts and intentions seem to 01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.260 arise naturally or be composed 01:34:28.260 --> 01:34:28.880 um 01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:30.420 they're 01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:35.940 um not composed by your eye me mine so 01:34:35.940 --> 01:34:37.860 much as they're composed by your 01:34:37.860 --> 01:34:39.780 unconscious let's say or your bodily 01:34:39.780 --> 01:34:41.159 processes 01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:43.560 now the problem with Sam Harris is then 01:34:43.560 --> 01:34:46.679 he thinks that the body obeys Newtonian 01:34:46.679 --> 01:34:49.260 laws of determinism hence you don't have 01:34:49.260 --> 01:34:51.120 free will 01:34:51.120 --> 01:34:54.840 so I would say no I composed my thoughts 01:34:54.840 --> 01:34:57.420 because I am this whole body environment 01:34:57.420 --> 01:35:02.040 thing and it doesn't obey Newtonian 01:35:02.040 --> 01:35:04.760 determinism its participatory complex 01:35:04.760 --> 01:35:06.679 self-organizing thing 01:35:06.679 --> 01:35:10.320 that that whose causal properties don't 01:35:10.320 --> 01:35:12.480 even fall into the question of free will 01:35:12.480 --> 01:35:14.219 or not free will 01:35:14.219 --> 01:35:16.460 because the question 01:35:16.460 --> 01:35:19.460 requires you to buy into Newtonian 01:35:19.460 --> 01:35:22.679 determinism all right so if I say I make 01:35:22.679 --> 01:35:24.719 my own thoughts and I free will that 01:35:24.719 --> 01:35:27.500 means I must be able to impose 01:35:27.500 --> 01:35:32.340 causal effects on the world so I have to 01:35:32.340 --> 01:35:34.320 say that the world is deterministic 01:35:34.320 --> 01:35:37.620 what's the sense of having free will and 01:35:37.620 --> 01:35:40.620 I have I freely move this pen but if the 01:35:40.620 --> 01:35:43.739 pen wasn't deterministic 01:35:43.739 --> 01:35:47.639 I couldn't move it anyways so this is 01:35:47.639 --> 01:35:51.300 his problem yeah yes the thoughts are 01:35:51.300 --> 01:35:54.360 don't come into my from my I mean my 01:35:54.360 --> 01:35:57.540 structure the I me mind structure 01:35:57.540 --> 01:35:59.400 doesn't even come from itself it comes 01:35:59.400 --> 01:36:02.340 from the body's interaction with the 01:36:02.340 --> 01:36:03.320 world 01:36:03.320 --> 01:36:06.320 but that's 01:36:06.320 --> 01:36:09.000 he believes that then we're talking 01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.580 about Newtonian determinism 01:36:11.580 --> 01:36:14.940 the X hits Y and this cell bumps into 01:36:14.940 --> 01:36:17.040 that cell and this molecule is 01:36:17.040 --> 01:36:18.719 completely determined hence we don't 01:36:18.719 --> 01:36:21.480 have free will and we know from the new 01:36:21.480 --> 01:36:24.600 Sciences of ecology and the complexity 01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.340 that that's not how the complex World 01:36:26.340 --> 01:36:30.360 works it's it's it's Auto poetic it's 01:36:30.360 --> 01:36:33.120 open it's unknown it's unprecedented 01:36:33.120 --> 01:36:36.659 there are Novelties that are not are not 01:36:36.659 --> 01:36:40.219 dependent upon initial States 01:36:40.560 --> 01:36:42.840 but then you get into this creepy thing 01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:44.699 well if that's the case then how can I 01:36:44.699 --> 01:36:47.400 will anything and and it just goes 01:36:47.400 --> 01:36:49.139 around and around because you can only 01:36:49.139 --> 01:36:51.900 ask the question from this notion of 01:36:51.900 --> 01:36:54.120 linear cause and effect 01:36:54.120 --> 01:36:57.600 um so it's kind of just a a a question 01:36:57.600 --> 01:36:59.580 that's framed 01:36:59.580 --> 01:37:01.440 to fail 01:37:01.440 --> 01:37:03.179 um 01:37:03.179 --> 01:37:05.639 so uh 01:37:05.639 --> 01:37:07.080 um 01:37:07.080 --> 01:37:12.540 I I I say something like I mean 01:37:12.540 --> 01:37:13.980 yeah 01:37:13.980 --> 01:37:17.340 if you look at free will 01:37:17.340 --> 01:37:19.679 um it's a funny thing because we don't 01:37:19.679 --> 01:37:22.020 really have all the information when we 01:37:22.020 --> 01:37:24.480 act and we don't 01:37:24.480 --> 01:37:27.480 we can't possibly know the eventual 01:37:27.480 --> 01:37:30.000 outcomes of our action 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:32.100 um and so 01:37:32.100 --> 01:37:32.699 um 01:37:32.699 --> 01:37:36.600 we Act without sufficient knowledge 01:37:36.600 --> 01:37:40.139 and reacting to the unknown but I say 01:37:40.139 --> 01:37:42.000 that 01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:44.639 um the kind of subjectivity we have the 01:37:44.639 --> 01:37:48.420 kinds of subject or person we are are 01:37:48.420 --> 01:37:49.760 um 01:37:49.760 --> 01:37:52.320 predisposes us to act in some ways and 01:37:52.320 --> 01:37:55.679 not others and that we have 01:37:55.679 --> 01:38:00.120 um some we have quite a lot of uh 01:38:00.120 --> 01:38:04.199 freedom to shape that subjectivity not 01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:06.060 exclusively 01:38:06.060 --> 01:38:07.800 um because we get condition our 01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:09.960 subjectivity gets conditioned but once 01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:11.940 you can see that your subjectivity is 01:38:11.940 --> 01:38:14.520 conditioned 01:38:14.520 --> 01:38:17.159 it seems like you can intentionally 01:38:17.159 --> 01:38:18.600 shape it 01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:22.080 that you have some agency in there and 01:38:22.080 --> 01:38:26.520 then what arises spontaneously 01:38:26.520 --> 01:38:29.520 um is different because you've shaped 01:38:29.520 --> 01:38:32.880 the subject the subjectivity you are 01:38:32.880 --> 01:38:36.120 uh so 01:38:36.120 --> 01:38:38.520 um yeah these kind of questions are hard 01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:43.380 to not sound like Google but 01:38:43.380 --> 01:38:45.840 um I I say that the 01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:49.199 um limiting Quantum of freedom is in the 01:38:49.199 --> 01:38:51.600 subject to subject interaction that you 01:38:51.600 --> 01:38:54.060 actually only have choice between you 01:38:54.060 --> 01:38:55.980 and the thing you're relating to in 01:38:55.980 --> 01:38:58.620 every given moment so this is the only 01:38:58.620 --> 01:39:00.360 agency you have 01:39:00.360 --> 01:39:02.460 and it makes all the difference in the 01:39:02.460 --> 01:39:03.540 world 01:39:03.540 --> 01:39:06.960 right so in every moment how I act in 01:39:06.960 --> 01:39:09.300 this subject to subject relationship is 01:39:09.300 --> 01:39:12.120 the only way I can exercise agency but 01:39:12.120 --> 01:39:15.560 it makes all the difference in the world 01:39:19.500 --> 01:39:23.070 Anna Maslow vanderplunk 01:39:23.070 --> 01:39:24.239 [Music] 01:39:24.239 --> 01:39:27.060 hello bunny hello everyone 01:39:27.060 --> 01:39:29.100 thank you for saying my name out loud 01:39:29.100 --> 01:39:33.380 that felt really cool actually 01:39:33.600 --> 01:39:36.360 um I'm curious about also about almost 01:39:36.360 --> 01:39:39.179 the path of the will or the way it 01:39:39.179 --> 01:39:40.560 almost feels like the way of the 01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:42.840 willingness it's not a will but it's a 01:39:42.840 --> 01:39:46.020 willingness I feel in that sense and 01:39:46.020 --> 01:39:48.300 when I'm thinking of the garden I'm in 01:39:48.300 --> 01:39:49.380 the garden 01:39:49.380 --> 01:39:53.340 in relationship and how can I be more in 01:39:53.340 --> 01:39:55.800 relationship with what is is like this 01:39:55.800 --> 01:39:57.780 business quality 01:39:57.780 --> 01:40:00.239 to this particular moment that will 01:40:00.239 --> 01:40:02.040 never be the same again 01:40:02.040 --> 01:40:07.280 and in this willingness am I willing 01:40:08.400 --> 01:40:11.659 how am I going to say this 01:40:13.500 --> 01:40:17.699 how am I going to stay present to what 01:40:17.699 --> 01:40:20.219 is in this moment without 01:40:20.219 --> 01:40:22.860 thinking or reflecting what I'm seeing 01:40:22.860 --> 01:40:25.320 now or what I saw now or what I will see 01:40:25.320 --> 01:40:27.840 or what I can be in relationship with is 01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:30.260 like this deep knowing or this intuition 01:40:30.260 --> 01:40:33.480 that when something arises an action 01:40:33.480 --> 01:40:36.179 that wants to be satisfied in a way can 01:40:36.179 --> 01:40:39.719 I act to it straight away and how is 01:40:39.719 --> 01:40:43.199 that moving into this new space is there 01:40:43.199 --> 01:40:45.960 more relationship more space more more 01:40:45.960 --> 01:40:49.199 of it and therefore 01:40:49.199 --> 01:40:52.380 it becomes more simple it's less complex 01:40:52.380 --> 01:40:54.120 and it becomes really simple because 01:40:54.120 --> 01:40:56.040 it's always this business 01:40:56.040 --> 01:40:59.760 and I'm curious about this is 01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:02.100 and I don't know I will never know but 01:41:02.100 --> 01:41:04.139 I'm just following it it's like a 01:41:04.139 --> 01:41:06.120 following it's a track that already is 01:41:06.120 --> 01:41:09.900 there in me and it's out there therefore 01:41:09.900 --> 01:41:11.880 is that making any sense yeah I would 01:41:11.880 --> 01:41:14.580 say that's a clear goal you say what if 01:41:14.580 --> 01:41:16.920 I just do you know what if I set this as 01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:20.040 a goal that I just try 01:41:20.040 --> 01:41:21.780 and you know however you want to 01:41:21.780 --> 01:41:23.520 language it but you you have a very 01:41:23.520 --> 01:41:26.760 clear sense of I'm just going to 01:41:26.760 --> 01:41:29.280 do more in this relationship improve 01:41:29.280 --> 01:41:31.560 this inflation increase in the sense of 01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:33.480 Tyson younger part of this relationship 01:41:33.480 --> 01:41:37.320 and and and what if I act 01:41:37.320 --> 01:41:40.440 with awareness of that whatever 01:41:40.440 --> 01:41:42.179 relationship 01:41:42.179 --> 01:41:45.480 and then you notice that it builds on it 01:41:45.480 --> 01:41:47.900 so it builds it brings something into 01:41:47.900 --> 01:41:51.659 reveal that isn't there 01:41:51.659 --> 01:41:55.380 um and so a lot of times sorry that 01:41:55.380 --> 01:41:56.880 it's Fourth of July and they have like 01:41:56.880 --> 01:42:01.400 cannons coming out in my neighborhood 01:42:01.520 --> 01:42:04.520 so so 01:42:05.760 --> 01:42:08.040 and so then what you're describing in 01:42:08.040 --> 01:42:09.619 kind of a micro 01:42:09.619 --> 01:42:12.420 microcosm is the same kinds of fluidity 01:42:12.420 --> 01:42:15.239 that Liz was describing in this larger 01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:19.320 kind of threatening scene is do you see 01:42:19.320 --> 01:42:22.800 this list you feel the same kind of like 01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:26.159 action she's taking in this in this 01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:27.199 micro 01:42:27.199 --> 01:42:32.639 micro space and time uh is kind of very 01:42:32.639 --> 01:42:34.380 similar 01:42:34.380 --> 01:42:36.440 um 01:42:36.480 --> 01:42:39.239 I just want to say too it had the 01:42:39.239 --> 01:42:43.139 quality of it is like an acute awareness 01:42:43.139 --> 01:42:46.560 but not an awareness of being aware yes 01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:51.360 it's reflexive it's reflexivity yeah 01:42:51.360 --> 01:42:53.880 it doesn't it didn't go into that second 01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:56.760 kind of simulation it's it's it's it's 01:42:56.760 --> 01:42:57.380 it's it's 01:42:57.380 --> 01:43:00.900 like having Keen senses but one of the 01:43:00.900 --> 01:43:02.900 senses is 01:43:02.900 --> 01:43:04.460 tracking 01:43:04.460 --> 01:43:09.540 your embodied experience in relation to 01:43:09.540 --> 01:43:11.699 what is or something 01:43:11.699 --> 01:43:14.040 I don't know how to say it any well it's 01:43:14.040 --> 01:43:17.340 wild because it felt like I could hold 01:43:17.340 --> 01:43:19.380 so much complexity but the complexity 01:43:19.380 --> 01:43:21.900 didn't feel complex it felt okay exactly 01:43:21.900 --> 01:43:24.360 so this is what saw you at the maple 01:43:24.360 --> 01:43:27.900 Academy said he said the sage wisdom is 01:43:27.900 --> 01:43:29.699 being able to hold and navigate 01:43:29.699 --> 01:43:31.940 complexity without 01:43:31.940 --> 01:43:34.800 complexifiguration your mind 01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:37.139 you know your mind doesn't get more 01:43:37.139 --> 01:43:39.119 complex your thoughts don't get more 01:43:39.119 --> 01:43:41.520 complex your interpretations don't get 01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:44.239 more com he so use the serum without 01:43:44.239 --> 01:43:46.800 complexifigurating everything 01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:51.000 and so this is exactly 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:53.400 um the difference between that and 01:43:53.400 --> 01:43:55.320 developmental psychology where a lot of 01:43:55.320 --> 01:43:58.380 the higher stages complex a figure 01:43:58.380 --> 01:44:01.159 ate everything using his 01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:04.560 term that he he made up 01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:10.159 um but exactly so this is this is 01:44:14.340 --> 01:44:16.500 it's being in 01:44:16.500 --> 01:44:20.760 the living you know complexity of you 01:44:20.760 --> 01:44:22.619 know Annie NASA nature is the most 01:44:22.619 --> 01:44:25.500 complex thing in the world complex thing 01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:28.320 ever but when you walk in nature 01:44:28.320 --> 01:44:31.199 it feels elegant so then he says that's 01:44:31.199 --> 01:44:34.440 true complexity there's an Elegance to 01:44:34.440 --> 01:44:37.679 it when you're coherent with what is as 01:44:37.679 --> 01:44:40.139 Anna said your coherent was with what is 01:44:40.139 --> 01:44:42.739 which means you're you're 01:44:42.739 --> 01:44:46.679 enacting complexity of the life force of 01:44:46.679 --> 01:44:48.480 your own life force 01:44:48.480 --> 01:44:50.219 but it's different than the complexity 01:44:50.219 --> 01:44:52.800 that cybernetics talks about 01:44:52.800 --> 01:44:55.260 I want it that word is so powerful 01:44:55.260 --> 01:44:58.020 Elegance because it's naming something I 01:44:58.020 --> 01:45:00.780 didn't have the word but my sense after 01:45:00.780 --> 01:45:02.159 that was 01:45:02.159 --> 01:45:05.219 everybody was doing what was truthful 01:45:05.219 --> 01:45:08.400 for them to do my dog the bear my friend 01:45:08.400 --> 01:45:12.540 Frozen me like everybody was just doing 01:45:12.540 --> 01:45:14.760 what was the most truthful thing in the 01:45:14.760 --> 01:45:18.179 moment to do and it was elegant 01:45:18.179 --> 01:45:21.119 so everything is is pinging back on 01:45:21.119 --> 01:45:22.800 everything else because you were in a 01:45:22.800 --> 01:45:24.719 state of reflexive awareness 01:45:24.719 --> 01:45:27.960 you it's also a truth state 01:45:27.960 --> 01:45:30.239 see without being in a state of 01:45:30.239 --> 01:45:31.980 reflexive awareness you would never say 01:45:31.980 --> 01:45:34.020 things like something like everyone was 01:45:34.020 --> 01:45:36.060 being true to himself you would say the 01:45:36.060 --> 01:45:40.020 bear was attacking me so all these all 01:45:40.020 --> 01:45:43.800 these ways of living are reflecting back 01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:46.320 it's the same experience to see feel 01:45:46.320 --> 01:45:49.020 it's elegant to feel that it's a truth 01:45:49.020 --> 01:45:51.960 state to feel that it's it's 01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:54.780 everything you said is all the same 01:45:54.780 --> 01:45:56.760 thing right they all come together as a 01:45:56.760 --> 01:45:58.619 package 01:45:58.619 --> 01:46:00.239 um yeah 01:46:00.239 --> 01:46:04.760 um Diana fascia calls it the truth state 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:08.060 wow 01:46:11.760 --> 01:46:14.460 okay we put yourself to sleep that's 01:46:14.460 --> 01:46:16.880 cool 01:46:17.040 --> 01:46:22.219 so since relaxation exercise 01:46:23.639 --> 01:46:25.980 any last comments this I mean I know we 01:46:25.980 --> 01:46:27.540 talked a lot but I think it's a great 01:46:27.540 --> 01:46:29.460 recording and 01:46:29.460 --> 01:46:31.080 um and 01:46:31.080 --> 01:46:33.960 um we'll probably do more exercises next 01:46:33.960 --> 01:46:37.440 time to see if we can 01:46:37.440 --> 01:46:39.360 uh 01:46:39.360 --> 01:46:40.739 yeah 01:46:40.739 --> 01:46:43.020 I don't know what the what how to end 01:46:43.020 --> 01:46:45.619 that sentence 01:46:48.119 --> 01:46:50.699 still waiting for the playlist 01:46:50.699 --> 01:46:53.000 huh I'm still waiting for the playlist 01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:54.860 oh 01:46:54.860 --> 01:46:59.040 uh that one was I don't know it was uh I 01:46:59.040 --> 01:47:02.219 found it oh okay yeah 01:47:02.219 --> 01:47:03.900 um 01:47:03.900 --> 01:47:06.619 Consciousness anema and Chris 01:47:06.619 --> 01:47:09.840 avant-garde yeah 01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:11.340 let me get on 01:47:11.340 --> 01:47:13.800 look at my friends 01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:17.699 stay reflexively aware and Beware of the 01:47:17.699 --> 01:47:19.199 bear 01:47:19.199 --> 01:47:21.500 foreign ## Cohort 3 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:04.560 foreign 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.480 so today I was driving to the grocery 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.460 store thinking about this class 00:00:28.740 --> 00:00:30.840 and I was doing something that I don't 00:00:30.840 --> 00:00:33.600 recommend but 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:36.660 I said I I ended up stopping at a stop 00:00:36.660 --> 00:00:39.780 sign and I'd said okay I'm seeing this 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:42.320 stop sign 00:00:43.800 --> 00:00:48.780 and then you know I tried to think of 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:51.420 playing a little game and then I'm aware 00:00:51.420 --> 00:00:54.980 of seeing this stop sign 00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:59.340 and then I would relax and just see the 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:01.559 stop sign and then it was like it was 00:01:01.559 --> 00:01:04.199 like these waves and I was aware that I 00:01:04.199 --> 00:01:07.320 was seeing the stop sign 00:01:07.320 --> 00:01:10.380 and I was trying to figure out this 00:01:10.380 --> 00:01:14.100 riddle right like what's 00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:16.700 foreign 00:01:21.740 --> 00:01:24.299 thinking of that you're aware and you 00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:26.759 realize you're kind of 00:01:26.759 --> 00:01:30.240 in a mental simulation 00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:32.820 uh 00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:35.400 so I think it's it's a fun practice and 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:36.840 we're going to start by doing this 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:37.979 practice 00:01:37.979 --> 00:01:41.640 um in your work in breakout groups and 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:44.520 and you'll just agree to talk when you 00:01:44.520 --> 00:01:46.439 talk and then 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.079 be quiet and practice again and see if 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:52.320 you can get more familiar with it and 00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:55.439 and then debrief a little and you know 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:56.939 kind of like 00:01:56.939 --> 00:02:01.259 use your own Rhythm for uh 00:02:01.259 --> 00:02:02.399 um 00:02:02.399 --> 00:02:05.579 it's like research right if we're 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:07.619 looking at something in a Petri dish I 00:02:07.619 --> 00:02:09.479 might we're both looking at I'm like oh 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:11.160 well did you see that and then we have 00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:14.040 to look closer and keep going back and 00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:19.440 forth between going and and seeing 00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:21.840 or someone could be talking you could do 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.060 it with talking you know like I'm 00:02:24.060 --> 00:02:26.640 hearing them and I'm aware of hearing 00:02:26.640 --> 00:02:28.879 them 00:02:30.540 --> 00:02:32.819 yeah it's and like Liz said there's 00:02:32.819 --> 00:02:35.819 something very slippery you can you can 00:02:35.819 --> 00:02:37.500 definitely feel when they're two 00:02:37.500 --> 00:02:40.140 different oscillations and then 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:43.140 they get close but they still seem to be 00:02:43.140 --> 00:02:46.500 sliding uh we kind of want to figure out 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:49.680 what's going on here 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.519 um and then we'll talk about 00:02:53.519 --> 00:02:55.019 um 00:02:55.019 --> 00:02:58.260 you know certainly why is it important 00:02:58.260 --> 00:03:01.680 um or what meeting we can make out of it 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:03.739 um 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:11.580 are there any Reflections or questions 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:14.879 like last time we we worked mostly on 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.340 reflexive awareness 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:20.400 um so we're going back to this this 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:21.060 um 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:25.379 meditation kind of research uh today but 00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:27.599 we can then 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:31.200 um broaden it again so I hope you up for 00:03:31.200 --> 00:03:33.599 this little experiment 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.340 um 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:38.879 does anybody have any questions about 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.440 what you're going to be doing 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:54.480 if I could just clarify what I think 00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:56.040 we're going to be doing 00:03:56.040 --> 00:03:59.180 we're going to be 00:03:59.459 --> 00:04:02.099 trying to tune into 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:04.680 when is it pure awareness when is it a 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:08.040 simulation of awareness like when is it 00:04:08.040 --> 00:04:09.780 one when is it the other 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.599 and then occasionally if we're noticing 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:14.939 something we're just saying it into the 00:04:14.939 --> 00:04:16.380 space and then we're dropping back into 00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:19.139 yeah and it might be a good conversation 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:21.239 and then you'll notice 00:04:21.239 --> 00:04:23.580 will want to go back in and check again 00:04:23.580 --> 00:04:25.199 especially if somebody said something 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.020 and you could go back and check to see I 00:04:28.020 --> 00:04:29.699 suggest 00:04:29.699 --> 00:04:32.220 you don't have to do it this way but I 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:34.080 found it powerful to do it when I was 00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:37.020 staring at the light I suggest 00:04:37.020 --> 00:04:41.100 um looking at one thing 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:45.320 and like okay I'm looking at it 00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:50.759 and and 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:53.100 notice the oscillation as soon as I'm 00:04:53.100 --> 00:04:56.759 I'm aware that I'm looking at it 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:58.919 but 00:04:58.919 --> 00:05:02.400 yeah just just you know we're just doing 00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:05.280 the classroom just noticing these 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:06.900 these 00:05:06.900 --> 00:05:08.900 um 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.220 like sometimes when I'm looking at 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:14.280 something and I'm doing this exercise I 00:05:14.280 --> 00:05:18.060 notice that a nanosecond went by and I 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:21.240 was actually not aware of looking at it 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:22.919 that's another thing I noticed that 00:05:22.919 --> 00:05:24.539 there was 00:05:24.539 --> 00:05:28.699 a point at which 00:05:28.979 --> 00:05:31.500 if I'm just true to the perception and 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:34.320 then I act and then I asked I noticed 00:05:34.320 --> 00:05:36.840 that there was a gap there was a time 00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:39.419 when I was still looking at it but I 00:05:39.419 --> 00:05:41.580 wasn't aware that I was looking at it 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:43.979 and so then I asked myself what is added 00:05:43.979 --> 00:05:46.500 or removed 00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:50.039 when I'm aware that I'm looking at it or 00:05:50.039 --> 00:05:52.620 is being aware that you're looking at 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:54.780 something always behind 00:05:54.780 --> 00:05:57.600 maybe when I'm aware I'm looking at 00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:59.340 something I'm actually in a simulation 00:05:59.340 --> 00:06:02.280 I'm just aware of the thought that I was 00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:04.620 looking at it 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:06.060 hmm 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:07.620 so 00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:11.600 um if you if you choose one thing 00:06:12.900 --> 00:06:17.039 and you try to just look at it don't 00:06:17.039 --> 00:06:20.960 attend quiet your mind 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:25.880 yeah 00:06:25.880 --> 00:06:28.319 there there might there should be an 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.840 oscillation and then you could jump back 00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:33.479 out and start the other way I'm looking 00:06:33.479 --> 00:06:35.400 at it and I'm aware that I'm looking at 00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:36.240 it 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.620 and then try to 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:43.319 make the aware I'm looking at it less of 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:45.479 a thought and see if you can meld it 00:06:45.479 --> 00:06:48.479 into the perception itself 00:06:48.479 --> 00:06:50.819 so 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:51.419 um 00:06:51.419 --> 00:06:54.500 yes David 00:06:56.400 --> 00:06:58.919 uh I just want to let that sink in for a 00:06:58.919 --> 00:07:00.780 minute then I have a comment and a 00:07:00.780 --> 00:07:03.020 question 00:07:09.479 --> 00:07:12.419 uh the comment is that the last time I 00:07:12.419 --> 00:07:15.620 did this in session one 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.520 afterwards I was on a walk and I fought 00:07:20.520 --> 00:07:23.960 that what we were doing was Collective 00:07:23.960 --> 00:07:27.180 Insight practice 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:32.580 and I hear your instruction about 00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:34.500 the posture we're going to take 00:07:34.500 --> 00:07:36.960 personally 00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:40.220 I want to know more about 00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:43.919 the purpose of 00:07:43.919 --> 00:07:46.560 speaking to 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.740 our experience with the other people in 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:51.300 our Breakout 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:55.020 okay that's a collective Insight yeah so 00:07:55.020 --> 00:07:57.960 it's basically doing research 00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:00.500 together 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.080 and 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.660 notice things are going to come up 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:09.919 see if you did this in regular Monastery 00:08:09.919 --> 00:08:12.479 you would do it in the Zen month then 00:08:12.479 --> 00:08:14.280 would tell you what you're looking what 00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:16.039 you're doing 00:08:16.039 --> 00:08:18.840 they keep fashioning what you're doing 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:22.560 until you agreed that 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.500 that was what was happening to you 00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:28.080 so we're not doing that we're saying 00:08:28.080 --> 00:08:30.120 we're going to practice this we're 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.880 trying to answer a question 00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:34.800 um and we're going to try to have 00:08:34.800 --> 00:08:36.959 insight into what's going on by doing it 00:08:36.959 --> 00:08:37.820 together 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:41.580 but uh instead of having a conceptual 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:43.979 question that we're working with we 00:08:43.979 --> 00:08:45.540 actually have 00:08:45.540 --> 00:08:49.019 the question you know so 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:51.720 um so it's it's we're collectively 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.420 trying to understand this research 00:08:54.420 --> 00:08:56.700 question 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:00.480 um some people may already have what the 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:02.459 guru told them some people may have read 00:09:02.459 --> 00:09:04.620 all these different things 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:07.800 um that could be part of it too but in 00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:10.740 this practice we 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.779 um we trust 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:14.820 the experience 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:16.980 itself 00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:20.940 um and uh so we're not really trying to 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:23.100 get consensus 00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:27.240 um I think that will have some common 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.640 Reflections 00:09:29.640 --> 00:09:30.540 um 00:09:30.540 --> 00:09:32.940 and we're not trying to really 00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:37.500 then get on a conversational uh sharing 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.839 thing we always we always want to when 00:09:39.839 --> 00:09:41.760 we're debrief will come in and talk talk 00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:44.580 talk but we always want 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:48.720 hmm she said that let me try again 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.880 uh 00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:53.459 you know which one of these stayed very 00:09:53.459 --> 00:09:56.660 close to the experience 00:09:56.760 --> 00:09:58.980 like we did with memory and we got 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:00.839 really good at like oh well this has 00:10:00.839 --> 00:10:03.000 really happened with me except this is 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.940 very subtle work I mean 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.160 um it's it's very uh uh subtle work but 00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:14.399 um yeah so it's was that did that help 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.500 is that helpful 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:21.180 uh yes uh thank you for moving from the 00:10:21.180 --> 00:10:23.700 individual to the other and the 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:25.980 inclusion and 00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:27.080 um 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:30.060 I love there's no 00:10:30.060 --> 00:10:31.980 there is a question and there's no 00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:34.760 answer yet 00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:37.700 yeah 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:42.300 this is an unresolved uh question in 00:10:42.300 --> 00:10:44.220 Buddhist Scholastics 00:10:44.220 --> 00:10:46.680 if people will go around I mean there's 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:49.140 tons and tons and tons written about it 00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:51.180 so I wouldn't 00:10:51.180 --> 00:10:54.000 necessarily 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.300 expect us to hone in on 00:10:57.300 --> 00:10:59.459 uh 00:10:59.459 --> 00:11:00.959 um yeah 00:11:00.959 --> 00:11:03.240 an exact 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.579 um sense of it 00:11:05.579 --> 00:11:07.640 um 00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:10.740 I just want to say that I'm in complete 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:14.399 resistance to this exercise 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.200 and 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:17.820 because what I mean 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.579 how I'm hearing it is 00:11:20.579 --> 00:11:25.440 I'm noticing a thing as in an object and 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.560 then I'm noticing me notice 00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:31.620 an object I'm playing with the 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:34.079 that dynamic 00:11:34.079 --> 00:11:37.440 and what's missing from me in this 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.220 is 00:11:41.160 --> 00:11:43.980 being fashioned 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:46.260 in the moment 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:50.640 by the relationality with the object so 00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:53.040 that the noticing in shifts from 00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:55.500 noticing object as object 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:57.240 to 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:58.200 um 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:02.660 how am I alive 00:12:04.620 --> 00:12:06.380 um 00:12:06.380 --> 00:12:08.760 as opposed to 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:13.740 separate and noticing object how am I 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:17.760 in a flux so to speak in a in a flow 00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:19.200 with 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:20.160 um 00:12:20.160 --> 00:12:22.620 whatever's there and that feels to me 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:24.380 that's where 00:12:24.380 --> 00:12:26.880 I I don't really want to go beyond that 00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:28.560 but 00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:30.620 um 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.579 I feel like I'll be in a place of 00:12:35.579 --> 00:12:37.200 alienation 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.800 just between noticing object and 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:43.980 noticing me noticing object it doesn't 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:47.060 it doesn't 00:12:47.300 --> 00:12:51.720 bring open it doesn't open for me 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.180 awareness 00:12:54.180 --> 00:12:57.360 but then what do you mean by awareness 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:01.040 you just work use this one 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:04.500 active fluidity 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:07.260 with 00:13:07.260 --> 00:13:09.779 and participation 00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:11.579 with 00:13:11.579 --> 00:13:14.660 what is there 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:17.339 right so 00:13:17.339 --> 00:13:19.019 um I mean this is part of the practice 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.440 and this is a good thing to add to the 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.959 Insight practice exactly what you said 00:13:24.959 --> 00:13:27.120 if that's your experience that that's 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.040 your experience 00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:30.660 um but just be careful 00:13:30.660 --> 00:13:32.940 we're actually not 00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:35.399 the object itself is not what we're 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.120 investigating it's our lived experience 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.760 of seeing the object 00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:45.360 um we're just using the object as a prop 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.459 um so some people 00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:54.120 um some people do this practice in Zen 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.339 monasteries and they look at their mind 00:13:56.339 --> 00:13:58.740 and then they're aware of their minds 00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:00.600 and then they have to ask well what's 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.220 how what's being aware of their mind 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:05.220 this is way too 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.740 you don't have to go that subtle we can 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:11.100 use the object as a as a prompt instead 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:15.899 of some looking as a thought as a prop 00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:18.540 um so we're what we're interested in is 00:14:18.540 --> 00:14:21.480 the lived experience now if you could 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.240 describe what it feels like to oscillate 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.079 between being in the flow and being 00:14:28.079 --> 00:14:31.200 distance this is one of the things you 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.899 can describe this is a description of 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.560 the how you experience this instruction 00:14:37.560 --> 00:14:39.839 so so 00:14:39.839 --> 00:14:42.720 um in fact many people will describe an 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.420 oscillation and they'll use different 00:14:45.420 --> 00:14:47.040 terms 00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.199 um so 00:14:49.199 --> 00:14:51.360 um but it's not really about the object 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.360 we're just using it as a prop 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.480 um and as I said in most 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.199 um like deep Zen Advanced Training you 00:15:01.199 --> 00:15:04.860 would be using thoughts in your head as 00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:09.260 the object and asking the same question 00:15:10.199 --> 00:15:12.240 if I if I don't focus on the thought 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.940 then what is left is it just awareness 00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:18.540 uh if I drop so that that would be the 00:15:18.540 --> 00:15:20.100 typical 00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.079 um 00:15:22.079 --> 00:15:26.399 typical Buddhist kind of instruction but 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:30.240 we're going to use a physical object 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.660 um to get it get started great question 00:15:33.660 --> 00:15:36.420 but that's a that's a legit legitimate 00:15:36.420 --> 00:15:39.380 way to report 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:42.260 um 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:51.420 I'm sorry this is my first one I've just 00:15:51.420 --> 00:15:55.380 been a crazy few days but as you were 00:15:55.380 --> 00:15:58.440 speaking I was drawn back to the 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:01.740 paragraph in which you talk about 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:04.860 what happens to you happens to me at the 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:06.839 same time I mean in this sort of 00:16:06.839 --> 00:16:09.000 collective 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.860 sense 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.720 um and then 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:17.160 that I had a visceral reaction to your 00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:21.600 words around we're tied together by one 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.839 causal yeah let's let's hold the 00:16:24.839 --> 00:16:27.720 conversation go after the practice 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.579 because we are going to have a big 00:16:29.579 --> 00:16:31.560 conversation last session we spent the 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:33.779 whole time on the conversation okay okay 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:35.820 that question will be welcome 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:40.139 but let's do the practice and so JJ if 00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:42.720 you didn't hear and Kimberly 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.399 um and I know Magdalena she won't forget 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.259 so she 00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:49.139 just hold on to that I almost you almost 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:52.380 got me I almost wanted to talk about it 00:16:52.380 --> 00:16:55.740 um but I I did this last session and we 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:58.500 all we did was talk okay so if you 00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:00.300 haven't heard the instruction you're 00:17:00.300 --> 00:17:02.639 going to 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.160 um pay attention to something I suggest 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:09.540 one thing like a pencil and you're just 00:17:09.540 --> 00:17:11.100 going to look at it and then the 00:17:11.100 --> 00:17:12.540 question you're going to ask you're 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:14.520 going to say well I'm aware that I'm 00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:16.020 looking at it 00:17:16.020 --> 00:17:18.919 and 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:23.400 you wanna we wanna figure out is that 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.059 two things that happen simultaneously 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.820 is there an oscillation I'm looking and 00:17:29.820 --> 00:17:33.299 I and then when I ask myself I'm aware 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:34.980 is 00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:37.679 um if I find that I'm aware of looking 00:17:37.679 --> 00:17:40.500 at the pencil can I drop looking at the 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:44.760 pencil and just be in Awareness itself 00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:47.100 as some people say 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:49.200 um what are the oscillations that happen 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.320 are you are you looking at the pencil 00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:55.200 and then you notice is a time lag and 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.660 I'm actually thinking about being aware 00:17:57.660 --> 00:17:59.640 of looking at the pencil that would be 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.039 reflection after the fact is it 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.600 retrospective 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:05.940 like just these are all just words I'm 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:09.840 using but we just want to play with 00:18:09.840 --> 00:18:11.580 um 00:18:11.580 --> 00:18:16.200 what this word awareness is 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:20.100 um in this kind of practice 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:22.919 um it's you know the hard problem with 00:18:22.919 --> 00:18:25.620 Consciousness and we want to just 00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:29.280 see if we can investigate it from first 00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:31.620 person experience and from the 00:18:31.620 --> 00:18:34.860 collective reporting which is helpful 00:18:34.860 --> 00:18:35.960 because 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.640 it can give you perspectives and then 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.160 you can go and try again and see well 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.660 maybe that's a little what I'm 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.080 experiencing too or whatever okay so 00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:48.360 we're going to do this for 00:18:48.360 --> 00:18:52.080 uh 25 minutes you go back and forth from 00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:54.360 I said just start by doing the practice 00:18:54.360 --> 00:18:57.360 for a little bit and then you know just 00:18:57.360 --> 00:18:59.580 someone can start and then someone might 00:18:59.580 --> 00:19:02.280 say well let's go in for a second look 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:04.380 you know just just have it have its own 00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:07.799 Rhythm for how much practice you do but 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.299 try to have a conversation really stay 00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:13.860 um 00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:16.380 you really want to watch or have a 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.179 conversation around your experience 00:19:18.179 --> 00:19:19.260 itself 00:19:19.260 --> 00:19:20.640 okay 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.940 so Aaron's someone whatever Aaron ends 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.559 up you're gonna have to explain to him 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.020 what you're doing is that okay 00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:29.400 and 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:30.179 um 00:19:30.179 --> 00:19:34.760 so uh this is for 25 minutes 00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:47.940 Bonnie I've had a couple power blips 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:49.799 here so if I disappear I may end up back 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:51.660 in the main room okay and then I'll 00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:53.400 throw you back in 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:58.799 all right enjoy your research and enjoy 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:00.539 your company Aaron they're going to let 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.260 you know what's going on 00:20:35.650 --> 00:20:38.789 [Music] 00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:02.039 I'm aware that it's 90 degrees in this 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.730 room and I'm a pathetic sweaty mess 00:21:05.730 --> 00:21:10.150 [Music] 00:21:11.820 --> 00:21:14.419 foreign 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.640 [Music] 00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:41.640 well one thing 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.620 that we 00:21:43.620 --> 00:21:46.980 discuss I mean shared whatever right in 00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:48.299 the beginning 00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:51.960 that I had a question about was whether 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.679 this was strictly looking 00:21:55.679 --> 00:21:57.900 or whether 00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:01.640 touching was also 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:05.580 in the research 00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:07.740 you know 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:11.340 um some things that was 00:22:11.340 --> 00:22:14.580 could expand to touch 00:22:14.580 --> 00:22:19.380 and we kind of agreed 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:22.100 that 00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:24.020 it was not 00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:26.539 excluded 00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:29.760 right you're just any object so you know 00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:31.440 you could touch an object look at an 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:35.100 object hearing is kind of hard because 00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:37.620 hearing comes and goes uh 00:22:37.620 --> 00:22:40.260 and even like I said the food issues 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:43.380 thought as the object so 00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:46.520 um yeah touching was a good one 00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:50.240 I mean it 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.580 the way it meandered was actually 00:22:53.580 --> 00:22:57.419 because it's just a small Stone 00:22:57.419 --> 00:23:00.179 um and very flat as 00:23:00.179 --> 00:23:03.659 Cheryl said perfect skipping Stone 00:23:03.659 --> 00:23:06.419 um it was through the touch 00:23:06.419 --> 00:23:08.400 that I was able 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.919 to 00:23:09.919 --> 00:23:14.820 really feel the emptying of my mind oh 00:23:14.820 --> 00:23:17.600 you have one too 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.020 um 00:23:19.020 --> 00:23:23.159 and then I guess 00:23:23.159 --> 00:23:24.600 um 00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:28.020 after the touching then there was a 00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:32.419 scale thing of it in relation to my hand 00:23:32.419 --> 00:23:34.860 that became 00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:36.539 something I 00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:40.380 wouldn't have looked at necessarily I 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.500 mean the relationship between 00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:47.400 its shape on my and that Drew Me In 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.820 and then it became time 00:23:50.820 --> 00:23:54.780 as in the smoothness and how it had 00:23:54.780 --> 00:23:57.840 become flat and I know that's starting 00:23:57.840 --> 00:23:59.940 to do 00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:02.340 but the thing I've metaphor yeah that's 00:24:02.340 --> 00:24:03.480 good 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:06.000 but then the thing that I found most 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.380 fascinating 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.059 was that 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:11.520 after listening 00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:15.299 to the others in my group 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:18.900 I realized that as I was listening 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:22.919 that I was going into their object 00:24:22.919 --> 00:24:26.179 in a very different way 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.799 because Cheryl has a 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:32.640 sunflower 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.840 but yeah that actually hasn't kind of 00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:41.100 almost like an eye in the dark part 00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:45.840 and I was feeling drawn in to the eye 00:24:45.840 --> 00:24:48.000 you know and 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.380 so some Attunement had sort of taken 00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:53.400 place 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:58.039 and and Aaron had this crystal 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:01.380 stone that he had described feeling like 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.440 he was going in and out of caves 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.140 and I was already you know I was ready 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:10.020 to trip on that you know 00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:12.780 um but it's interesting with Kimberly 00:25:12.780 --> 00:25:16.320 she had talked about a fly and a leaf 00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:20.460 and I was like nope nothing there 00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:22.520 um 00:25:22.580 --> 00:25:26.299 but I just felt this sort of 00:25:26.299 --> 00:25:29.299 modality 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.279 that was available 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.000 you know or had become 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.480 available 00:25:43.260 --> 00:25:45.240 and then of course I noticed that I had 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.320 noticed that you know and then and then 00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:51.900 starts to be like this Loop yeah so 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:53.580 there's a certain type of where you're 00:25:53.580 --> 00:25:56.279 gentle you notice you're aware but then 00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.820 when you if it's more like notice it 00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:01.440 becomes 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.659 you can feel the oscillation it becomes 00:26:03.659 --> 00:26:05.880 mental energy and and then you have to 00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:07.620 reset so that's yeah that's a good 00:26:07.620 --> 00:26:11.419 that's that's that's a good report 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.520 I would say uh a couple things that 00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:20.640 happened one was at one point 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.820 there is a shift from 00:26:23.820 --> 00:26:25.860 looking 00:26:25.860 --> 00:26:29.100 at to receiving 00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:31.940 which actually then felt more like 00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:34.980 participatory and that I feel like I 00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:39.799 touched awareness more once I felt that 00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:44.460 instead of my me trying to be aware 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:47.220 um it was way more relational 00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:50.220 and and then at one point I thought 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:53.880 I went from I am aware to I am awareness 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:57.299 and that was a total shift 00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:00.720 when I said I am awareness the I 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.900 Disappeared for not completely just for 00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.720 a moment but I could feel I could feel a 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.720 different like everything just got way 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.200 more infinite I could include way more 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.460 and every thing that my eyes fell on was 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:19.740 deeply moving and touching it wasn't 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:21.600 like I like this better than this or 00:27:21.600 --> 00:27:24.360 this is prettier than this or I feel 00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:26.520 this about this it was just everything 00:27:26.520 --> 00:27:29.520 equally was 00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:32.299 touching 00:27:36.840 --> 00:27:40.799 and I I was with Liz and it was really 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.159 interesting that before what she is 00:27:44.159 --> 00:27:47.220 sharing which was a sense in which 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:51.840 we all were in that space in a way but 00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:55.620 what happened first and what was that 00:27:55.620 --> 00:27:57.600 there was a gap 00:27:57.600 --> 00:28:00.539 between the looking and the asking of 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:01.860 the question 00:28:01.860 --> 00:28:05.940 and there was to return to the object 00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:09.539 was very comfortable to return to the 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.419 looking was very comfortable as opposed 00:28:12.419 --> 00:28:15.419 to being with the question it was like a 00:28:15.419 --> 00:28:17.580 shift of distance and 00:28:17.580 --> 00:28:21.539 and then there was once that seemed to 00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:22.520 be 00:28:22.520 --> 00:28:27.000 acknowledged and spoken and we we 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:31.320 started to move into what Liz's ex is 00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:33.659 sharing but there was also this 00:28:33.659 --> 00:28:35.640 expansion 00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:39.659 um it was a very powerful expansion 00:28:39.659 --> 00:28:41.279 um 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.140 yeah but just returning to the first 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:46.260 little bit the other thing that we all 00:28:46.260 --> 00:28:48.500 of us noticed I think was that 00:28:48.500 --> 00:28:51.779 while you could look at the object it 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:55.740 was it very quickly the peripheral 00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:58.799 or everything else came in and that also 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:00.720 in some ways 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.360 I don't know led to the expansion as 00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:06.840 well the beginning of that expansion 00:29:06.840 --> 00:29:09.900 yeah you know that's all I have to say 00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:11.700 yeah I just want to quickly add to that 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:13.679 including like Sensations in the body 00:29:13.679 --> 00:29:15.659 and like 00:29:15.659 --> 00:29:18.299 suddenly it was like I'm aware of this 00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:19.799 and 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.700 so much more 00:29:23.580 --> 00:29:26.100 not this at the exclusion of everything 00:29:26.100 --> 00:29:28.520 else 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:45.799 um 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.179 of my rock my crystal not really 00:29:51.179 --> 00:29:52.980 corresponding with how big it actually 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.940 is it was a very strange like I can hold 00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:59.700 it in my hand 00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:02.039 but it feels much bigger than something 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.080 I should be able to hold in my hand when 00:30:04.080 --> 00:30:06.960 I dropped in it was 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.419 amazing that something that can have so 00:30:09.419 --> 00:30:12.179 many millions of points of light in it 00:30:12.179 --> 00:30:14.520 could be held in my hand 00:30:14.520 --> 00:30:16.559 um 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.299 and at that point I also started 00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:20.760 noticing like whoa I can breathe really 00:30:20.760 --> 00:30:23.820 deeply like I was in this place of 00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:25.940 um 00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.740 this is not what it seems to be right 00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:30.360 it's not just something I can weigh and 00:30:30.360 --> 00:30:33.559 measure it's 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.539 it's bigger than it looks I don't know I 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:40.020 don't know anything more to say but like 00:30:40.020 --> 00:30:41.820 yeah I had this sense that it was way 00:30:41.820 --> 00:30:44.880 bigger than the illusion of what it 00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.960 what it feels like 00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:55.799 I have this notion that the focus of 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.960 attention oscillates but awareness 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.000 doesn't and I don't know the distinction 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.399 between attention and awareness as I'm 00:31:02.399 --> 00:31:04.740 speaking it but attention feels 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:06.299 different than awareness to it because 00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:08.039 there's a narrowing and a widening 00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.600 experientially of focused attention 00:31:12.600 --> 00:31:15.200 and yet awareness seems 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:20.159 like that from which I draw to do that 00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:23.760 that's just what I'm noticing and it's 00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:25.679 just a suspicion don't know what that's 00:31:25.679 --> 00:31:27.980 so 00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:31.260 yeah in that closely parallels what Liz 00:31:31.260 --> 00:31:32.460 is saying 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:36.299 um attention so retention is more 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.940 uh 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.000 uh active 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.320 and awareness is receptive so 00:31:46.320 --> 00:31:48.600 um now it you know all these words mean 00:31:48.600 --> 00:31:51.000 the same thing you feel that awareness 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:51.840 is 00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:56.220 still looking at the pen but 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:57.779 becoming 00:31:57.779 --> 00:31:59.820 receptive 00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:01.559 in a way of looking at it and then you 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:03.899 have this expansion feeling 00:32:03.899 --> 00:32:06.120 that a lot of you are talking about 00:32:06.120 --> 00:32:09.000 whether the rock expands or your sense 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.440 of yourself that's that's uh yeah that's 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:15.000 all part of 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.380 this 00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.559 word another interesting thing that I 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.240 noticed is there are moments when I did 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.360 it felt like I was seeing through my 00:32:24.360 --> 00:32:26.520 eyes rather than with my eyes which is 00:32:26.520 --> 00:32:28.799 pretty curious I think that's the other 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.320 that's part of the receptive 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:33.539 uh 00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:35.940 quality like 00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:38.760 um maharisha you know talked about that 00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:41.840 this is uh 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:46.020 clear light experience 00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:50.279 where you feel like the light is coming 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.440 through your eyes and Illuminating 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.000 something 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.059 um I think this is also associated with 00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:57.960 uh 00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:02.279 passive or receptive stance versus 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:06.179 I don't know but there's that people 00:33:06.179 --> 00:33:09.020 report that 00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:14.220 yeah like early on I just had this like 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:16.080 very simple pencil it's not even 00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:20.519 sharpened yeah yeah I hope and so early 00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.380 on I was like kind of get twizzling 00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:23.519 around 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:25.019 um 00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:27.539 and I just little little things that 00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.159 were would stand out like there was a 00:33:29.159 --> 00:33:30.419 little piece of glitter or there's like 00:33:30.419 --> 00:33:31.620 a little 00:33:31.620 --> 00:33:32.880 um 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:34.620 just like little piece of wood kind of 00:33:34.620 --> 00:33:36.000 paying off and those things would like 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.840 really draw in uh yeah my attention 00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:43.320 um and I I'd be like just really with 00:33:43.320 --> 00:33:46.200 the object but then like I'd kind of you 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:48.120 know then kind of I'd have a sort of 00:33:48.120 --> 00:33:49.799 awareness about oh how much I just got 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.260 like sucked into that details and there 00:33:52.260 --> 00:33:54.539 was this kind of oscillation of that but 00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:55.440 then 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.419 there was also 00:33:57.419 --> 00:34:00.500 like later on kind of feeling that that 00:34:00.500 --> 00:34:04.380 receptivity I think the kind of moving 00:34:04.380 --> 00:34:06.500 more into sort of allocentric 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:10.500 uh awareness of it and it just it was a 00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:12.060 lot more comfortable 00:34:12.060 --> 00:34:13.560 right kind of there wasn't this kind of 00:34:13.560 --> 00:34:15.659 exertion of energy as there is of a kind 00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:18.119 of sort of pinpoint like kind of looking 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.159 at a particular Park and then just 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.020 noticing yeah peripheral kind of really 00:34:22.020 --> 00:34:24.659 coming in just being able to see the 00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:27.780 I well like experience the whole object 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.480 more rather than kind of looking at it 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.980 in parts and 00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:34.919 we're looking for details 00:34:34.919 --> 00:34:37.740 yeah so this is also very good noticing 00:34:37.740 --> 00:34:40.159 because 00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:43.159 um 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:46.020 different uh personalities different 00:34:46.020 --> 00:34:49.080 entries into the work are different but 00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:54.179 it's quite common for really one pointed 00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:56.159 focused attention like when you were 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:59.119 really drawn into it 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:03.060 then the backgrounds feel the expanse 00:35:03.060 --> 00:35:06.660 pops out so this is unusual you wouldn't 00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:08.640 have thought of this but the Buddhists 00:35:08.640 --> 00:35:10.740 have known this for a long time that 00:35:10.740 --> 00:35:14.220 certain types of focused attention can 00:35:14.220 --> 00:35:16.560 trigger 00:35:16.560 --> 00:35:19.260 the field of awareness the sense of 00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:21.960 receptivity the sense that there's all 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.579 this space 00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:26.640 um it does it doesn't work for everyone 00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:31.380 um and and like what is 00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:34.020 got there more naturally 00:35:34.020 --> 00:35:37.320 um but if you have a very busy mind you 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.780 have to it's quite often you have to go 00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:43.859 into one pointed concentration to 00:35:43.859 --> 00:35:46.800 experience what you would think would be 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.920 where you wouldn't go right 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.040 um but that is also 00:35:53.040 --> 00:35:54.060 um 00:35:54.060 --> 00:35:57.660 yeah that is also consistent with how 00:35:57.660 --> 00:35:58.460 people 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:02.420 describe these experiences 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:04.980 um it's different than just getting 00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:06.480 spaced out 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.560 you know because 00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:12.480 if I'm just spaced out I can feel like 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.000 there's a lot of space 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.599 but the awareness of the vastness of 00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.040 things 00:36:20.040 --> 00:36:23.700 is very clear-headed 00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:27.359 um and that's why if you if you are you 00:36:27.359 --> 00:36:30.839 know you have a a busy mind 00:36:30.839 --> 00:36:34.020 the concentration is a portal to the 00:36:34.020 --> 00:36:37.680 awareness because it's not a spaced out 00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:38.579 um 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:41.160 experience 00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:43.320 um so 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:44.760 um yeah 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:46.740 so they're not like it's not like 00:36:46.740 --> 00:36:49.440 opponent processing either concentrating 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.480 or are you this they're they're much 00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.820 more they're related and kind of 00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:57.740 interest and interesting words 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.820 uh so Bonnie when you were talking about 00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.619 your attention can you be active or your 00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:15.599 awareness your attention is active and 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.119 your awareness is receptive 00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:20.940 as soon as you said that I thought okay 00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:22.440 that's 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.740 activating the relationality is that 00:37:25.740 --> 00:37:29.160 having both sides of maybe of a polarity 00:37:29.160 --> 00:37:34.260 and we might experience polarity in in a 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:37.800 other self and other but 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:38.400 um 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:41.520 I I don't really know how to go any 00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:43.680 further with this but the idea that I 00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:46.800 can be both attentive 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.560 and receptive 00:37:49.560 --> 00:37:54.300 allows for a fluidity I think okay so 00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:57.180 this is a very big insight and it was 00:37:57.180 --> 00:37:59.040 similar to the words you were using 00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:02.040 different words but the receptive in the 00:38:02.040 --> 00:38:07.079 in the active were very similar and 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.900 um so this made a big Insight that they 00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.540 are not 00:38:12.540 --> 00:38:17.160 um they're not opponents to each other 00:38:17.160 --> 00:38:18.839 so 00:38:18.839 --> 00:38:19.560 um 00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:22.200 uh 00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:25.560 and if you find yourself oscillating 00:38:25.560 --> 00:38:28.260 you can you the oscillation has got a 00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.660 lot of information in it like like you 00:38:30.660 --> 00:38:32.099 might be 00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:35.339 very active about something like if I 00:38:35.339 --> 00:38:38.220 see if I see you know somebody someone 00:38:38.220 --> 00:38:41.160 I'm working with people are rewriting 00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:43.859 things for me and I I get to see I would 00:38:43.859 --> 00:38:46.140 never use that word you know I get very 00:38:46.140 --> 00:38:49.680 active I see it and I feel very active 00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:53.160 um or then and then I can like well I'm 00:38:53.160 --> 00:38:55.020 gonna read what they wrote and I'm just 00:38:55.020 --> 00:38:56.640 going to be very receptive and I can 00:38:56.640 --> 00:38:59.280 feel myself oscillating but how could I 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.260 be receptive with what they say and 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:03.359 still say no no no no no no we're not 00:39:03.359 --> 00:39:04.980 going to use that word 00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:09.960 this is one of one this is called it's 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.119 it's reflexivity because it you're 00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:14.280 tracking two different things it's also 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.560 called mindfulness so it's not about 00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:18.300 just being 00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:20.960 you know it's coming from receptivity 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:26.280 and being having Clarity around uh what 00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:27.240 matters 00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:30.660 and sometimes we just get when we try to 00:39:30.660 --> 00:39:32.339 have Clarity we're over here and we're 00:39:32.339 --> 00:39:34.560 like that we have one Persona we're 00:39:34.560 --> 00:39:36.420 receptive over here and we have that and 00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:38.940 so how do we how do we integrate these 00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:42.359 is the question so anytime you notice 00:39:42.359 --> 00:39:44.280 yourself oscillating this is good 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.560 information because all you have to do 00:39:46.560 --> 00:39:48.240 you don't have to make anything up you 00:39:48.240 --> 00:39:50.040 just try to 00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:52.560 bring those things just like we've been 00:39:52.560 --> 00:39:56.480 doing closer and closer together 00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.920 um so 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.040 um that would be uh called non-dual 00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:04.079 state or whatever 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.880 um but 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.220 um yeah that's a great it's a very big 00:40:08.220 --> 00:40:10.200 insight 00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:11.870 see it's inside practice 00:40:11.870 --> 00:40:14.969 [Music] 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.160 who would have thought 00:40:20.160 --> 00:40:21.000 um 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.740 does everybody understand that it's a 00:40:22.740 --> 00:40:25.740 big it's a big Insight yeah 00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:28.560 I had something interesting happen uh 00:40:28.560 --> 00:40:30.300 when you were talking about that 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:33.359 activity and receptivity 00:40:33.359 --> 00:40:36.060 I looked to see 00:40:36.060 --> 00:40:40.140 I looked to see my awareness 00:40:40.140 --> 00:40:42.300 and I became awareness of something 00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:44.640 really 00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:47.040 simple 00:40:47.040 --> 00:40:50.640 that I love that nobody has entered a 00:40:50.640 --> 00:40:51.720 chat 00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:55.820 that we are 15 16 people 00:40:55.820 --> 00:40:59.579 engaged and I know now that what matters 00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:03.420 to me is you and me 00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:06.060 you all and me 00:41:06.060 --> 00:41:09.920 so I'm glad you didn't chat today 00:41:51.900 --> 00:41:56.520 okay 64 million dollar question 00:41:56.520 --> 00:42:00.440 I'm going to give you a clue 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.520 and then I guess I'll put you back in 00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:07.560 for 15 minutes 00:42:07.560 --> 00:42:09.720 break out room to try to answer the 00:42:09.720 --> 00:42:12.320 question okay 00:42:13.680 --> 00:42:15.180 so 00:42:15.180 --> 00:42:17.160 we notice 00:42:17.160 --> 00:42:20.940 that there's this awareness and then we 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:23.520 notice that 00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:25.980 the mind 00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:28.920 kind of jumps around like 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:31.140 so I'm using I'm not using any of the 00:42:31.140 --> 00:42:33.359 words you use I'm using real I don't you 00:42:33.359 --> 00:42:34.980 know really 00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:37.800 um kind of gross words but anyways we 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:42.300 have this one pointed attention that can 00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:44.400 you know it's either this point at that 00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.440 point at that point I can go different 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.480 ways and then we have this receptive 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.390 awareness 00:42:50.390 --> 00:42:53.580 [Music] 00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:56.760 and so 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:58.820 um 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:06.780 so we have this notion of the mind being 00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:09.440 having attention uh paying attention 00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:13.319 concentrate your mind and so 00:43:13.319 --> 00:43:14.119 um 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.060 what where does the 00:43:17.060 --> 00:43:21.000 receptivity come from and if you 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:25.460 remember the name of this course 00:43:25.460 --> 00:43:27.900 that will 00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:30.900 give you 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:33.060 a 00:43:33.060 --> 00:43:34.590 Chloe 00:43:34.590 --> 00:43:36.599 [Music] 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:40.079 so if the bouncing around mind is the 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.240 attention paying attention here and 00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:47.220 there zooming in and out what is it that 00:43:47.220 --> 00:43:49.500 serves up this 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:55.040 field of awareness 15 minutes 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:27.980 oh 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:43.520 foreign 00:44:44.030 --> 00:44:46.859 [Music] 00:44:46.859 --> 00:44:51.920 Big Stretch right what you got 00:44:57.359 --> 00:44:59.170 um I ain't got nothing 00:44:59.170 --> 00:45:01.319 [Laughter] 00:45:01.319 --> 00:45:02.700 um 00:45:02.700 --> 00:45:06.680 with Samuel and Holly 00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:11.280 so when we when we entered this second 00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:12.780 session 00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:14.579 Holly just says 00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:17.119 body 00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:21.079 so then the the the the the 00:45:21.180 --> 00:45:24.800 it unfolded the conversation and 00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:28.319 unfolded around 00:45:28.319 --> 00:45:33.359 you know you know the the felt sense of 00:45:33.359 --> 00:45:37.940 that the body is is 00:45:38.720 --> 00:45:42.119 both producing and grounding 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:45.200 the experience 00:45:45.240 --> 00:45:48.560 um I don't know 00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:52.339 um 00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:57.900 we we talked about 00:45:57.900 --> 00:46:00.900 how 00:46:01.140 --> 00:46:04.920 how the space between things felt 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.980 connected and 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.500 um not empty 00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:12.000 that that 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:15.079 the objects 00:46:16.200 --> 00:46:20.060 um and in our bodies in space 00:46:20.160 --> 00:46:22.680 uh 00:46:22.680 --> 00:46:25.859 were existed in a connected field of 00:46:25.859 --> 00:46:27.900 awareness 00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:30.240 I don't know these words sound silly 00:46:30.240 --> 00:46:32.460 saying them but 00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:34.800 that that's what the conversation kind 00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:37.579 of revolved around 00:46:37.859 --> 00:46:41.900 Samuel Holly anything to add 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:00.420 we also talked towards the end about a 00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:02.339 kind of overwhelm 00:47:02.339 --> 00:47:04.880 of 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.859 recognizing a kind of 00:47:07.859 --> 00:47:10.020 Perfection and patterns of perfection 00:47:10.020 --> 00:47:12.720 and the overwhelm of that and then 00:47:12.720 --> 00:47:16.560 coming back to the body and 00:47:16.560 --> 00:47:20.660 the body isn't overwhelmed by that 00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:46.280 the body lives in space in openness 00:47:52.020 --> 00:47:55.040 yeah that's it 00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:09.839 I just added that like reflecting on the 00:48:09.839 --> 00:48:11.780 um yeah that oscillation between 00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:14.160 expansiveness and again that 00:48:14.160 --> 00:48:17.040 overwhelmedness the expansiveness 00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:19.920 and then that return the oscillation 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.359 back into 00:48:21.359 --> 00:48:24.420 the reality of like flesh and blood and 00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:27.839 like bumping up against 00:48:27.839 --> 00:48:29.400 um other bodies 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.599 in a very physical way 00:48:46.140 --> 00:48:48.420 s 00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:50.940 did everybody come to that answer the 00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:52.500 body 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:54.300 um 00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:57.200 more than other 00:48:57.720 --> 00:49:01.819 I kind of set it up but 00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:06.119 so now now I'm going to we're going to 00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.880 do this exercise really quick I'm going 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.940 to demo word so the question we were 00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:14.099 working is what are you aware of when 00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:17.839 you are aware that you're aware 00:49:18.359 --> 00:49:21.420 what are you aware of when you are aware 00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:24.060 that you're aware and so if we look at 00:49:24.060 --> 00:49:25.440 some of 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.300 um you don't have to buy into this but 00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:29.520 I'm looking at the pencil 00:49:29.520 --> 00:49:32.099 then I'm just looking at the pencil and 00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:35.359 then I want to know 00:49:36.240 --> 00:49:39.060 if I'm aware of the pencil and I asked 00:49:39.060 --> 00:49:42.800 myself well what I'm aware of 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:48.260 when I'm aware that I'm aware 00:49:48.540 --> 00:49:50.579 and two things can happen 00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:56.119 I can take it mental Journey 00:49:57.240 --> 00:50:00.960 and we all are very good at at noticing 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:04.980 that identified or I can get into this 00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:08.000 receptive way 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:12.780 and I realized I'm becoming aware of my 00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:15.300 body in space 00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.720 and I'm aware 00:50:17.720 --> 00:50:20.940 so that what I'm aware of I'm aware that 00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:25.920 I'm aware is my body and space and and 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.619 I'm also 00:50:28.619 --> 00:50:32.640 aware that the body is not limited to 00:50:32.640 --> 00:50:37.319 space and that my body lives in openness 00:50:37.319 --> 00:50:41.520 and this is what I'm alluded to because 00:50:41.520 --> 00:50:44.579 the Traditions start with looking at 00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:46.740 thought and you think it's something in 00:50:46.740 --> 00:50:48.900 your mind and you get spaced out and 00:50:48.900 --> 00:50:51.660 then you think awareness is something in 00:50:51.660 --> 00:50:55.140 your spaced out mind and they rob us of 00:50:55.140 --> 00:50:57.599 the wildness the causal wildness of our 00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:01.020 body this is over and over and over and 00:51:01.020 --> 00:51:03.480 over again in these traditions and it 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:05.220 drives me nuts 00:51:05.220 --> 00:51:08.660 makes me a lunatic 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:15.020 okay I I had to 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:26.280 and I think they're mistranslations but 00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:28.920 we have like the bodies in the gross 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:33.420 realm it's heavy it don't move it's it's 00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:36.839 Compact and it's dense right this is how 00:51:36.839 --> 00:51:39.240 we talk about the body I mean it's like 00:51:39.240 --> 00:51:41.880 the malware it goes very deep because 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:44.700 even just in if we haven't done Buddhist 00:51:44.700 --> 00:51:48.180 practices and stuff this is in our our 00:51:48.180 --> 00:51:52.020 our you know Western it's in even in 00:51:52.020 --> 00:51:55.260 Catholicism it's in the it's in 00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:59.460 it's it it's what happened on the axial 00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:01.559 age we got tripped out with thoughts in 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.920 our head and then everything moved in 00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:06.960 this direction 00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.099 and why does it matter because 00:52:11.099 --> 00:52:13.859 this other direction because we're 00:52:13.859 --> 00:52:17.339 ruining nature we're destroying nature 00:52:17.339 --> 00:52:21.960 and it's because we don't understand 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:26.599 that were isomorphic to Nature 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:28.740 so 00:52:28.740 --> 00:52:32.280 the openness of the mind is served up by 00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.579 the open awareness of the body which is 00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:37.980 a perfect reflection of what nature is 00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:42.000 it's open awareness it's open it's an 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.640 open Dimension it's a quality of what 00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:46.980 existence is 00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:50.780 it's a quality of openness 00:52:51.839 --> 00:52:54.359 and 00:52:54.359 --> 00:52:56.660 this is 00:52:56.660 --> 00:52:59.900 power work 00:52:59.900 --> 00:53:03.180 constructing this new theory of the body 00:53:03.180 --> 00:53:07.400 it is the field of awareness 00:53:08.220 --> 00:53:11.460 that is continuous with the openness of 00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:13.880 reality 00:53:22.140 --> 00:53:24.960 and it seems like also some of the 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:27.480 limitation and particularity of that 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.660 reality right like it's open but it's 00:53:30.660 --> 00:53:32.240 also 00:53:32.240 --> 00:53:36.839 it's not it's not virtual it's not 00:53:36.839 --> 00:53:38.760 anywhere in the world it's where I am 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:41.160 right here right now that's the point at 00:53:41.160 --> 00:53:46.760 which I have contact with what is 00:53:47.520 --> 00:53:49.700 um 00:53:51.180 --> 00:53:54.540 yeah yeah this is beautiful because 00:53:54.540 --> 00:53:57.000 it's not open in the way the mind is 00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.599 which is combinatorially explosive 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:03.420 and we think that there is something 00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:06.300 can't be open and have contact at the 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:08.819 same time I mean you don't this is what 00:54:08.819 --> 00:54:12.619 you're saying this is a misunderstanding 00:54:12.619 --> 00:54:16.380 of uh what contact is because we're 00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:19.319 contacted with the word world we're 00:54:19.319 --> 00:54:22.319 contacted with its quality which is real 00:54:22.319 --> 00:54:25.800 on the one hand and open and I have to 00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:28.859 say real and open because we think the 00:54:28.859 --> 00:54:32.099 date those two words somehow are not the 00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:34.500 same quality 00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:37.800 um and so this this can be just a 00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.540 mystery how can something be real and 00:54:39.540 --> 00:54:41.880 open at the same time you could write a 00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:43.859 metaphysics about it 00:54:43.859 --> 00:54:48.119 um it's probably just better to say it's 00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:50.700 a mystery but that it's a mystery that's 00:54:50.700 --> 00:54:52.980 solved with a certain experience of 00:54:52.980 --> 00:54:54.540 certainty 00:54:54.540 --> 00:54:57.119 um that you can gain from doing some of 00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:00.300 these practices and so 00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:04.500 um yeah I loved what you said and and 00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:06.619 um 00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:11.099 it's not virtual in that sense I mean we 00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:12.900 can do virtual things that's cool too 00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:14.220 but 00:55:14.220 --> 00:55:17.880 um it can be open and 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.640 contact that's really a nice word to put 00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:24.200 with that thank you 00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:28.319 yeah I think it brings me into a sense 00:55:28.319 --> 00:55:31.619 of my awareness of the relationality 00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:34.559 when I'm when I am situated in a 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:36.900 particular context 00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:37.559 um 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:41.700 and then I mean I have Encounters of of 00:55:41.700 --> 00:55:45.119 particularity of embeddedness and then 00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:50.160 along with that comes more of a sense of 00:55:50.160 --> 00:55:52.520 um care 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.040 ing 00:55:56.040 --> 00:55:59.099 what happens to it this is all going to 00:55:59.099 --> 00:56:01.200 open up when we come back in the fall 00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:03.359 because 00:56:03.359 --> 00:56:06.599 we're compounded by other organisms that 00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:08.160 have a certain amount of awareness and 00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:10.079 then there's the super organism that's 00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:15.180 aware you know all this we're going to 00:56:15.180 --> 00:56:18.059 um try to express 00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:19.859 um 00:56:19.859 --> 00:56:21.599 but 00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:22.319 um 00:56:22.319 --> 00:56:24.900 if we know that awareness comes from the 00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:27.900 body it's much easier to express uh 00:56:27.900 --> 00:56:30.000 collective intelligence or Collective 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.980 consciousness 00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:36.240 um as both real and 00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:38.700 um different than liminality which is 00:56:38.700 --> 00:56:43.319 mind meld and and stuff so so 00:56:43.319 --> 00:56:46.140 yeah and then we come you know my heart 00:56:46.140 --> 00:56:49.020 strings then we come close to being able 00:56:49.020 --> 00:56:51.059 to be taken seriously by scientists 00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:53.400 because we're saying yeah like what's 00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:55.800 sacred is our body and our body is 00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:57.960 nature we know something about those 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.319 things from a scientific perspective we 00:57:01.319 --> 00:57:05.579 reject with reductive materialism but uh 00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:07.520 yeah we believe there's gut 00:57:07.520 --> 00:57:10.140 microorganisms in me that have something 00:57:10.140 --> 00:57:12.000 to do with my psychology guess what 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.460 their bodies in space too 00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:17.819 they're in spaces inside of me 00:57:17.819 --> 00:57:20.400 um so 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.740 yeah this is this is 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:28.440 what we're producing here 00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:30.960 I mean some of the I you know a lot of 00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.540 these ways of really articulating have 00:57:33.540 --> 00:57:37.440 been born in this in this years 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.800 in these in in this experience with you 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:45.140 I mean I I have not written 00:57:45.300 --> 00:57:48.180 you know if I try to 00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:49.920 we're really getting close to being able 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:53.520 to to say this in a kind of a useful way 00:57:53.520 --> 00:57:55.680 you know if I sat down for this course 00:57:55.680 --> 00:57:57.300 and tried to say this it would be going 00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:59.280 to write geeking 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:01.440 esoteric paper I said no one can 00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:03.619 understand 00:58:10.200 --> 00:58:13.579 all these things are like 00:58:13.619 --> 00:58:16.400 what make 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:19.500 the transcendental spaced out mind thing 00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:21.540 so seductive 00:58:21.540 --> 00:58:25.980 and the body based thing quite 00:58:25.980 --> 00:58:27.440 um 00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.960 it's not problematic right but it's it's 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:31.800 scary 00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:34.260 it's scarier 00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:37.740 to be grounded in in body 00:58:37.740 --> 00:58:41.400 because of death disease decay 00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:44.599 causal wildness 00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:47.940 yeah we'll have to come to terms with 00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:51.380 that too but yeah because we we 00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:53.180 associate 00:58:53.180 --> 00:58:55.220 term 00:58:55.220 --> 00:58:57.240 determination of 00:58:57.240 --> 00:59:00.119 something with death 00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.240 um 00:59:03.319 --> 00:59:06.119 we're going to talk about when we get to 00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.819 I'm not sure I'm writing another a book 00:59:08.819 --> 00:59:11.640 for perspectiva which is called the one 00:59:11.640 --> 00:59:14.040 Once and Future God 00:59:14.040 --> 00:59:15.960 and the way it's going to address this 00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.240 is to 00:59:18.240 --> 00:59:21.059 we I wrote about it either in the 00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:22.799 Socrates 00:59:22.799 --> 00:59:25.619 is that 00:59:25.619 --> 00:59:27.720 everything that exists 00:59:27.720 --> 00:59:30.780 today gets completely metabolized oh 00:59:30.780 --> 00:59:34.619 yeah it's the first amid was still alive 00:59:34.619 --> 00:59:37.799 um and I'm gonna argue this is also true 00:59:37.799 --> 00:59:40.200 for God or a source he's it's completely 00:59:40.200 --> 00:59:44.040 metabolized in us so you could never get 00:59:44.040 --> 00:59:47.579 outside of existence and point to God uh 00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:50.240 because of this rolling 00:59:50.240 --> 00:59:54.059 completely metabolized into 00:59:54.059 --> 00:59:56.220 the next moment to the next moment to 00:59:56.220 --> 00:59:58.260 the next moment and it's also true for I 00:59:58.260 --> 01:00:00.599 ourselves you know like when we think 01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:02.520 about some of these memories like our 01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:05.640 memories and our it it it's we can't go 01:00:05.640 --> 01:00:08.460 back and find my not I can't go back and 01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:10.380 point to my nine-year-old self she's 01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:14.640 completely metabolized into this and 01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:15.839 um 01:00:15.839 --> 01:00:19.619 so you're right in order to uh 01:00:19.619 --> 01:00:22.680 produce something like this we have to 01:00:22.680 --> 01:00:26.119 have a way to assuage 01:00:26.119 --> 01:00:29.339 uh this question of death 01:00:29.339 --> 01:00:31.740 uh which is always what a spiritual or 01:00:31.740 --> 01:00:35.599 religious uh 01:00:36.420 --> 01:00:39.660 um task has has to take up it has to be 01:00:39.660 --> 01:00:42.420 able to say something about that 01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.980 [Music] 01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:47.520 and not right Sam Harris like 01:00:47.520 --> 01:00:50.400 I want to say something to that because 01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:53.540 we were just talking about this today 01:00:53.540 --> 01:00:57.240 and any one of you who can contribute I 01:00:57.240 --> 01:00:59.040 would be grateful 01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:03.420 but there's a absolutely unicorn piece 01:01:03.420 --> 01:01:07.160 of land near a village that 01:01:07.200 --> 01:01:08.640 um 01:01:08.640 --> 01:01:11.819 we just can't stand the idea that it 01:01:11.819 --> 01:01:13.980 will be you know somebody's private 01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:16.740 Villa even though that was somebody's 01:01:16.740 --> 01:01:18.420 original intention 01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:20.940 and today 01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:24.359 um this whole notion of an endless 01:01:24.359 --> 01:01:28.799 Cemetery because if you actually compost 01:01:28.799 --> 01:01:31.680 the human bodies and 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:34.680 plant a tree on it I mean I know it 01:01:34.680 --> 01:01:38.460 sounds gimmicky too in a way but the 01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:40.380 idea that you don't run out of room 01:01:40.380 --> 01:01:44.099 because you're truly composting 01:01:44.099 --> 01:01:45.599 and 01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:47.640 you just have to go back and get bones 01:01:47.640 --> 01:01:51.000 and grind them down at some point I mean 01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:52.319 but 01:01:52.319 --> 01:01:53.160 um 01:01:53.160 --> 01:01:55.680 I don't know if anybody knows anything 01:01:55.680 --> 01:01:59.040 about this but we we got pretty serious 01:01:59.040 --> 01:02:00.599 about 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:03.680 because it would 01:02:03.680 --> 01:02:07.740 regenerate land that used to be forests 01:02:07.740 --> 01:02:11.160 and keep regenerating 01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:11.940 um 01:02:11.940 --> 01:02:14.819 and we just 01:02:14.819 --> 01:02:17.099 the idea that you can just keep 01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:20.339 composting you don't run out of room 01:02:20.339 --> 01:02:22.980 for boxes or 01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:24.240 urns or 01:02:24.240 --> 01:02:26.760 whatever 01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:29.280 and somehow all three of us who are 01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:31.859 Elders here were like 01:02:31.859 --> 01:02:35.540 I want to go there 01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:37.500 so I don't know 01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:41.819 yeah my garden Over My Dead Horse you 01:02:41.819 --> 01:02:45.059 know just a lot of active microbial 01:02:45.059 --> 01:02:49.859 activity happening in there uh 01:02:49.859 --> 01:02:52.920 and one of my older Ducks died the other 01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:54.240 day and 01:02:54.240 --> 01:02:55.920 would just 01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:58.260 wrapped her in some paper towels so 01:02:58.260 --> 01:03:00.839 because we don't like the throat I don't 01:03:00.839 --> 01:03:02.700 like to throw the dirt over their eyes 01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:04.260 and stuff but just 01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:07.200 you know cotton cotton towels 01:03:07.200 --> 01:03:09.000 and and 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.400 I remember thinking you know she ate a 01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:13.859 lot of worms when she was alive and not 01:03:13.859 --> 01:03:16.920 alarms are gonna eat her like 01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:19.579 there 01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:34.559 well especially spoke to me with this 01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:37.920 Realty line because I look outside and 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:40.260 it's in me that the tree grows and we 01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:42.540 kind of think about that as being said 01:03:42.540 --> 01:03:46.700 when you're alive but why not you know 01:03:46.700 --> 01:03:50.520 as you're composting yes it's in me that 01:03:50.520 --> 01:03:54.079 the tree grows you know 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:21.540 um I'm intrigued by this 01:04:21.540 --> 01:04:24.839 fear of the body of the western mind the 01:04:24.839 --> 01:04:30.420 resistance to embodiment and uh 01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:33.059 what you said by the open Bonnie the 01:04:33.059 --> 01:04:36.720 openness of the mind is served up by the 01:04:36.720 --> 01:04:38.579 openness in the body 01:04:38.579 --> 01:04:40.140 and 01:04:40.140 --> 01:04:42.200 um 01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:46.980 and all of the way that thought uh is a 01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:49.079 departure the stock goes off on these 01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:52.020 trajectories of of meaning and structure 01:04:52.020 --> 01:04:55.040 and and 01:04:56.819 --> 01:04:59.460 it seems to me and and then and then a 01:04:59.460 --> 01:05:01.200 developed sense of maybe of selfhood 01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:02.760 even if you decide to have a metaphysics 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:04.680 that there is no self there's still if 01:05:04.680 --> 01:05:06.480 you're not in the body you're still 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:09.059 developing something that is 01:05:09.059 --> 01:05:10.920 um 01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:14.700 made fashioned by your own fashioning 01:05:14.700 --> 01:05:17.339 if you go into the body the experience 01:05:17.339 --> 01:05:18.720 is 01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:20.819 that subjectivity 01:05:20.819 --> 01:05:23.220 aliveness 01:05:23.220 --> 01:05:24.480 is 01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:27.540 multiple a Multiverse it's all over the 01:05:27.540 --> 01:05:29.520 place it's in all different aspects of 01:05:29.520 --> 01:05:31.440 the bodies and all different aspects of 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:33.839 the world and and that there's this 01:05:33.839 --> 01:05:38.099 constant play of of subjectivity and it 01:05:38.099 --> 01:05:40.319 seems to me that 01:05:40.319 --> 01:05:43.380 the challenge is 01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:49.280 how do I be a self how do I be 01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:52.020 in the midst of that 01:05:52.020 --> 01:05:57.299 uh multi multi-being you know and I I 01:05:57.299 --> 01:05:58.319 think it's 01:05:58.319 --> 01:06:01.079 exciting and 01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:02.520 um 01:06:02.520 --> 01:06:05.400 it's the task of being 01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:08.359 is to be both 01:06:08.700 --> 01:06:10.200 I'm not sure if I said that very well 01:06:10.200 --> 01:06:12.839 but yeah well this makes me think of 01:06:12.839 --> 01:06:13.740 like 01:06:13.740 --> 01:06:16.380 not all but not 01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:20.099 so this is why it's really sad 01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:25.099 because not everybody's body feels open 01:06:25.680 --> 01:06:29.280 um and and the more toxic the world 01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:32.400 becomes the more 01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.319 um 01:06:34.319 --> 01:06:37.380 people want to escape their bodies 01:06:37.380 --> 01:06:39.539 because they can't move and they can't 01:06:39.539 --> 01:06:41.640 breathe and they can't 01:06:41.640 --> 01:06:44.700 uh walk and 01:06:44.700 --> 01:06:46.859 um you know obesity and I'm not saying 01:06:46.859 --> 01:06:49.440 obese people can't have these 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:52.819 experiences but in general 01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:56.099 um this is not 01:06:56.099 --> 01:06:56.819 um 01:06:56.819 --> 01:07:00.299 in the direction of 01:07:00.299 --> 01:07:03.000 these insights 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:04.920 um and 01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:06.559 um 01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:10.079 mental health issues you don't want to 01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.240 be in your body you don't you feel 01:07:12.240 --> 01:07:14.160 trapped people feel trapped in their 01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:16.799 body gen the gender dysphoria 01:07:16.799 --> 01:07:20.099 all these things are are really horrible 01:07:20.099 --> 01:07:23.339 really would be really hard to get this 01:07:23.339 --> 01:07:26.339 message across to you know young people 01:07:26.339 --> 01:07:30.839 who this is their actual experience 01:07:30.900 --> 01:07:33.559 um so 01:07:33.780 --> 01:07:38.039 I mean that you know me it makes me very 01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:38.819 um 01:07:38.819 --> 01:07:41.339 very sad 01:07:41.339 --> 01:07:43.460 um 01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:49.559 and angry bodies or all these you know 01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:52.680 um but mostly these talks that have 01:07:52.680 --> 01:07:55.079 toxins 01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:56.520 um yeah 01:07:56.520 --> 01:07:58.680 young people don't want to be in their 01:07:58.680 --> 01:08:00.900 bodies 01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:03.720 and it's not because of that it's 01:08:03.720 --> 01:08:05.640 because 01:08:05.640 --> 01:08:08.400 this is Adam Mizner said that the 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.260 purpose of practice is to make you feel 01:08:10.260 --> 01:08:13.280 at home in your body 01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:17.599 and then you can begin 01:08:17.759 --> 01:08:19.759 um 01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:26.940 this is like ripping on your thing of 01:08:26.940 --> 01:08:28.319 like nature in the body not being 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:30.960 separate right and 01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:32.520 um 01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.120 yeah have an inner and outer affecting 01:08:36.120 --> 01:08:38.819 each other the more we screw up nature 01:08:38.819 --> 01:08:41.460 the less likely we will have bodies that 01:08:41.460 --> 01:08:43.500 can be comfortable in themselves if we 01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:46.319 have this open Nature because what 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:49.980 basically closing nature we're reducing 01:08:49.980 --> 01:08:53.420 its openness it's it's 01:08:53.420 --> 01:08:56.880 receptivity to life 01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:00.080 it's all the same 01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:03.199 and 01:09:03.480 --> 01:09:05.160 yeah 01:09:05.160 --> 01:09:07.500 and there there are so many forces that 01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:10.739 are moving us away from the true 01:09:10.739 --> 01:09:13.319 Simplicity and pleasure 01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:16.859 of noticing it yeah right like that's 01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:21.000 part of many treatments for mental 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:23.520 health issues is is just coming into 01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.620 noticing it at first there's so much 01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:28.560 discomfort and then there's 01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:31.080 maybe just a hint just a touch of 01:09:31.080 --> 01:09:34.500 something that feels okay and 01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:36.900 just capitalizing on that and nourishing 01:09:36.900 --> 01:09:39.239 that feeding it building it into 01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:42.080 something that 01:09:42.779 --> 01:09:46.560 connects the the pleasure of being a 01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:49.640 being with other beings 01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:53.640 yeah and it's it's like my story of the 01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:56.100 cows like you 01:09:56.100 --> 01:09:58.440 you have these videos with the first 01:09:58.440 --> 01:10:01.679 time cows see grass and they're they 01:10:01.679 --> 01:10:03.179 have they think it's an extraordinary 01:10:03.179 --> 01:10:05.219 they have an extraordinary experience 01:10:05.219 --> 01:10:07.980 but it's ordinary however 01:10:07.980 --> 01:10:11.340 if Humanity goes long enough they will 01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:13.679 not be able to tolerate there'll be cows 01:10:13.679 --> 01:10:15.600 that will not be able to tolerate the 01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:17.960 grass 01:10:19.620 --> 01:10:21.719 because it's a shock you know that was 01:10:21.719 --> 01:10:23.940 in my before Socrates shock of existence 01:10:23.940 --> 01:10:25.679 here's a shock 01:10:25.679 --> 01:10:27.179 that we're not the center of the world 01:10:27.179 --> 01:10:29.520 why why should that be a shock right oh 01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:31.199 cool there's other things out there 01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:34.159 we've been 01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:36.960 manage this this this notion's been 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:39.480 manufactured and then when it's called 01:10:39.480 --> 01:10:42.659 that the question is a shock 01:10:42.659 --> 01:10:46.100 um all these things are 01:10:46.140 --> 01:10:48.260 um 01:10:48.780 --> 01:10:51.659 things to work on but you know there's a 01:10:51.659 --> 01:10:54.420 lot of people uh working on this I 01:10:54.420 --> 01:10:57.120 couldn't have taught this course uh 10 01:10:57.120 --> 01:11:01.260 years ago even at the Master's level 01:11:01.260 --> 01:11:03.600 um there's not enough awareness I would 01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:04.920 say 01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:06.980 um 01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:09.659 yeah I think what happens now is a lot 01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:11.760 of people are you know you're reading a 01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:13.080 lot of different things you're listening 01:11:13.080 --> 01:11:14.699 to a lot of different podcasts so you're 01:11:14.699 --> 01:11:17.820 putting it together whereas 15 years ago 01:11:17.820 --> 01:11:20.219 people who would work with like 01:11:20.219 --> 01:11:21.960 awareness or something they were under 01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:24.540 lineage and the lineages have these 01:11:24.540 --> 01:11:26.400 problems so 01:11:26.400 --> 01:11:27.120 um 01:11:27.120 --> 01:11:29.640 um so something cool is happening 01:11:29.640 --> 01:11:32.820 um and uh 01:11:32.820 --> 01:11:35.040 all right 01:11:35.040 --> 01:11:37.520 yeah 01:11:38.360 --> 01:11:40.320 just something 01:11:40.320 --> 01:11:42.239 that's reminding me of this rock right 01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:45.179 the um the image of the body 01:11:45.179 --> 01:11:48.120 what it appears in a mirror is actually 01:11:48.120 --> 01:11:50.460 very very different than what it feels 01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:51.540 like yeah 01:11:51.540 --> 01:11:53.520 and um 01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:55.560 I I mean a lot of the people I work with 01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.080 it's it's it's very much about 01:11:58.080 --> 01:11:59.760 it doesn't matter what you look like in 01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:01.199 the mirror maybe it does but it matters 01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.480 more to other people or your 01:12:03.480 --> 01:12:06.000 relationship to other people but the 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.340 feeling the juicy feeling of being a 01:12:08.340 --> 01:12:09.120 body 01:12:09.120 --> 01:12:12.780 is way way bigger than what 01:12:12.780 --> 01:12:14.460 you look like 01:12:14.460 --> 01:12:15.900 um 01:12:15.900 --> 01:12:18.300 that's that's it's just interesting to 01:12:18.300 --> 01:12:22.440 tie it back to that yes exactly 01:12:25.320 --> 01:12:27.840 okay I'll I'll upload this video right 01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:31.679 away I already copied quote 01:12:31.679 --> 01:12:33.480 to put with it 01:12:33.480 --> 01:12:34.980 and 01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:35.880 um 01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:39.179 yeah it was it was a great session and 01:12:39.179 --> 01:12:42.480 thank you for for doing the work 01:12:42.480 --> 01:12:46.800 um because it is it is good work 01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:48.480 um 01:12:48.480 --> 01:12:51.800 and have a good day ## Cohort 4 00:00:03.659 --> 00:00:09.020 hello hello I'm in a green room today 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.280 that's house upstate New York 00:00:13.620 --> 00:00:15.179 um 00:00:15.179 --> 00:00:18.020 okay 00:00:18.060 --> 00:00:20.240 um 00:00:22.740 --> 00:00:24.840 so what we're after we're going to start 00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:25.859 with a 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:28.320 kind of a meditation 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:31.320 but what we're after is 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:36.059 what are we aware of when we are aware 00:00:36.059 --> 00:00:38.940 that we are aware 00:00:38.940 --> 00:00:43.100 what are we aware of 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:49.280 when we are aware that we are aware 00:00:54.059 --> 00:00:57.780 so I was listening to Robert's uh do a 00:00:57.780 --> 00:01:00.620 guided meditation 00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:03.300 and 00:01:03.300 --> 00:01:05.040 um you know all the emphasis is on 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:06.720 mental space 00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:09.780 and I would like to try to do guided 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:13.380 meditation that is consistent with what 00:01:13.380 --> 00:01:15.119 we've been doing this year putting your 00:01:15.119 --> 00:01:16.920 mind back in the body and the body back 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.640 into nature 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:21.720 so 00:01:21.720 --> 00:01:23.780 um 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:26.400 so the first thing we're going to 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.740 actually follow the course outline and 00:01:28.740 --> 00:01:32.400 we just want to get comfortable and 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.460 um 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.320 relax into our bodies 00:01:37.320 --> 00:01:40.020 and just do the first thing we did in 00:01:40.020 --> 00:01:41.520 the very first session on our 00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:44.159 dispositional state just kind of 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.400 get in touch with like the general mood 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.020 or 00:01:49.020 --> 00:01:52.500 sense of our energy 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:55.860 where the flow and rhythm is 00:01:55.860 --> 00:01:59.520 just to familiarize ourselves or where 00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:02.040 we're at 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:04.860 doesn't matter 00:02:04.860 --> 00:02:07.560 what you discover 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:11.179 doesn't matter what you find 00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:23.220 and just gently notice that you're aware 00:02:23.220 --> 00:02:26.099 of this dispositional state don't take 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:28.700 it too far 00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:45.120 then we want to 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.360 notice that we're aware of things we see 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:52.280 the things we hear 00:02:52.739 --> 00:02:55.680 somehow we're not confined 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.160 to these dispositional Sensations but 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:01.319 Were Somehow open 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.340 to the world 00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:31.519 and that our perception 00:03:31.519 --> 00:03:36.019 extends ourselves into the world 00:03:43.019 --> 00:03:46.519 just be aware of that 00:03:47.519 --> 00:03:51.299 these perceptions are available 00:03:51.299 --> 00:03:54.560 they do their thing 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:01.500 they do their thing whether I'm 00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:05.060 attending to them or not 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:21.959 you'll feel just be aware of this body 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.560 that is somehow 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.259 in this dispositional state and open to 00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:30.740 the world 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:40.560 I want you to relax your mind when I 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.900 give the next instruction 00:04:42.900 --> 00:04:47.840 you know let it get too aggressive 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:52.860 I just want you to notice that you've 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:54.419 been 00:04:54.419 --> 00:04:57.660 a flowing dispositional stake aware of 00:04:57.660 --> 00:05:00.000 Perceptions in the world 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.040 for a long long time 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:09.120 that whole field of awareness spread out 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.800 across your lifetime 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:19.259 so notice how you're aware 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:23.780 there's been a larger field Through Time 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:30.720 all that that you have seen all that 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.580 that you have heard all that you have 00:05:32.580 --> 00:05:35.060 felt 00:05:39.419 --> 00:05:43.759 this large field of awareness 00:06:05.400 --> 00:06:08.940 imagine yourself into a future 00:06:08.940 --> 00:06:11.940 of all the things that are available and 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:14.419 not yet 00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:21.840 and noticed you're all aware 00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:25.100 of the openness 00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:28.380 of this dispositional body 00:06:28.380 --> 00:06:32.600 and this perceptual awareness 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:34.979 open 00:06:34.979 --> 00:06:38.900 through the future that's not yet 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:55.699 well 00:06:59.280 --> 00:07:02.400 then notice how 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:05.479 part of this 00:07:05.520 --> 00:07:07.259 has been 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:10.699 being aware of 00:07:10.940 --> 00:07:13.860 realities that are there and not there 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:18.080 at the same time these encounters 00:07:21.960 --> 00:07:24.419 counters with the cell counselors 00:07:24.419 --> 00:07:26.180 representative 00:07:26.180 --> 00:07:29.220 higher beings encounter with the sense 00:07:29.220 --> 00:07:32.479 of purpose we counter with 00:07:32.479 --> 00:07:36.199 mathematical properties 00:07:38.460 --> 00:07:40.919 and he realized that that field of 00:07:40.919 --> 00:07:42.120 awareness 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.199 is infinite 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.440 and somehow it's open and available 00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:11.699 even though you may not be able to 00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:15.259 attend to all of it 00:08:26.699 --> 00:08:29.419 now 00:08:33.180 --> 00:08:35.760 think of your dispositional state as 00:08:35.760 --> 00:08:38.219 awareness itself that has flown through 00:08:38.219 --> 00:08:40.260 this hole 00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:43.099 Journey 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.360 and see that it's possible to have a 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.820 disposition of state that is like this 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:13.680 opening 00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:17.540 field of awareness 00:09:17.880 --> 00:09:21.260 that doesn't float away 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:29.940 it's more like a Wellspring that 00:09:29.940 --> 00:09:31.320 emanates 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.680 and continuously flows 00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:37.940 doesn't float away 00:09:38.160 --> 00:09:40.980 it spills out into these larger and 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:43.880 larger fields 00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:52.680 from the energy 00:09:52.680 --> 00:09:56.420 that we call arousal 00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:12.560 so somehow we are here 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:21.779 but not contained 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:29.399 hi Bonnie hi hi it's um it's Kim I 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:31.740 um arrived a little bit late I guess 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:35.940 people are already in their rooms 00:10:35.940 --> 00:10:38.160 no we're all here we're meditating you 00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:41.040 can't see us I'm sorry that's okay we 00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:43.920 just felt done and we noticed that you 00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:46.680 seamlessly entered into this vast 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:48.779 awareness 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:50.700 can you see us I'm so embarrassed okay 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:53.220 yes no I can't hold on no yes no I can't 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:54.720 sorry okay 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.740 no it's fine it's perfect we will report 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:01.399 to you 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:10.560 I could have made you wait I thought it 00:11:10.560 --> 00:11:12.779 was perfect but 00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:15.660 you came in when you did okay 00:11:15.660 --> 00:11:18.680 that was it 00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:32.700 the idea is that we get the feeling that 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:34.920 we have to separate here's the bodily 00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:36.660 felt experience and now I get into this 00:11:36.660 --> 00:11:38.760 vast space of awareness and there's no 00:11:38.760 --> 00:11:42.180 there's there's no there's like a gap in 00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:43.800 between right 00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:47.640 this is how we listen to most people 00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:50.940 talk about the field of awareness 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.000 um 00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:58.980 so that would be a more 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.240 I mean it follows our course you notice 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.579 um it followed our course pretty 00:12:05.579 --> 00:12:07.140 directly 00:12:07.140 --> 00:12:09.980 as a 00:12:10.079 --> 00:12:13.100 uh meditation 00:12:13.100 --> 00:12:15.120 structure so 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.220 um yeah interested in 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:20.420 what you're experiencing 00:12:33.019 --> 00:12:36.120 thank you for that meditation it was 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.779 wonderful 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:40.800 um 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:42.420 and my friends 00:12:42.420 --> 00:12:45.060 I miss you 00:12:45.060 --> 00:12:47.180 um 00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:54.959 so one thing that was pretty sweet that 00:12:54.959 --> 00:12:57.480 happened is when you when you invited us 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.980 to expand awareness across time 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:04.260 backwards 00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:08.639 um my immediate sense was also forward 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.339 so then your invitation afterwards to 00:13:11.339 --> 00:13:14.040 also extend it forward 00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:14.880 um 00:13:14.880 --> 00:13:17.880 was like oh wow 00:13:17.880 --> 00:13:19.500 I'm glad 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:22.940 I went there all already 00:13:23.760 --> 00:13:25.760 um 00:13:28.079 --> 00:13:32.579 um and also I was just reading 00:13:32.579 --> 00:13:35.240 um the effect and the spirits the 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:38.220 dispositions article 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:39.360 um 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:40.339 um 00:13:40.339 --> 00:13:45.899 and as I was reading it and it was my 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.899 sense also that this invitation you had 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.760 at the very end of the meditation 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.860 of 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:58.100 um 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:01.500 shift in perception or perhaps 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.300 experience 00:14:03.300 --> 00:14:06.079 of 00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:10.440 this dispositional state in you know 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:12.660 conventional psychology that is 00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:16.399 generally talked about as pretty fixed 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.760 is really not the case and through these 00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:24.360 practices or these I don't know what 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:26.459 practices but for me it's somatic 00:14:26.459 --> 00:14:28.940 practices 00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:32.540 um what we're really shifting 00:14:32.540 --> 00:14:37.079 is uh is the dispositional state 00:14:37.079 --> 00:14:40.199 and then I was wondering reading the 00:14:40.199 --> 00:14:43.019 article if because I wasn't in most of 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:46.940 the classes if you have identified 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:49.800 dispositional States like if there are 00:14:49.800 --> 00:14:51.899 like five of them ten of them two of 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:54.600 them my perception of it is they're like 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:57.720 two main dispositions that's the 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.600 contracted State versus the expanded 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.040 State perhaps 00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:05.699 and maybe there are 00:15:05.699 --> 00:15:07.440 ones that 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.839 we identify out of those but I was 00:15:09.839 --> 00:15:11.579 curious about that 00:15:11.579 --> 00:15:13.579 um 00:15:13.699 --> 00:15:16.380 this is some of what came up for me 00:15:16.380 --> 00:15:18.120 thank you for this meditation it was 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:19.560 love 00:15:19.560 --> 00:15:21.720 yeah so that's one way to look at it 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.980 basic contraction versus expansion 00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:27.720 um but 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.540 we don't try we try not to psychologize 00:15:30.540 --> 00:15:33.000 your dispositional state 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:35.459 because 00:15:35.459 --> 00:15:36.560 um 00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:39.839 we so if you read that little Gap table 00:15:39.839 --> 00:15:41.959 it's like can I be with whatever 00:15:41.959 --> 00:15:45.120 dispositional state I'm in and notice 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.180 that it comes things come and go they 00:15:48.180 --> 00:15:50.940 don't it doesn't stay the same so we're 00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:54.000 more interested in 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.060 um being comfortable 00:15:57.060 --> 00:15:59.519 with whatever dispositional state I have 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.579 because it's it's not true that everyone 00:16:02.579 --> 00:16:05.100 some people are going to be nervous 00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.199 people all the time 00:16:07.199 --> 00:16:09.540 it's just the body or the karma or 00:16:09.540 --> 00:16:14.120 whatever and some people are going to be 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.820 so the when we work with dispositional 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:20.820 State we want to be very careful that 00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:23.519 we're not even giving you know 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.240 positively and negatively balancing it 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.660 and that we're comfortable with 00:16:30.660 --> 00:16:34.500 this is what it is the reality of it 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:35.519 um 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:37.259 so if you start positively and 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:39.720 negatively valence it you start to 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:41.459 Prejudice and you get into ethics you're 00:16:41.459 --> 00:16:43.920 either afraid or if you're or you're 00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:48.060 angry or you know you this it starts to 00:16:48.060 --> 00:16:50.600 take on more 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.100 psychological quality which is fine then 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.740 you just watch you know you just attend 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.540 to that but 00:16:57.540 --> 00:16:59.639 um but yes it's it's 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.420 commonly used that way and 00:17:03.420 --> 00:17:05.540 um 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.579 uh yeah I used to talk about about it 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.459 like that in terms of Tai Chi but it's 00:17:11.459 --> 00:17:13.980 more like 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:16.079 getting to know your body and being 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.360 comfortable in it 00:17:18.360 --> 00:17:19.919 um because some people really you know 00:17:19.919 --> 00:17:24.000 you have a energy signature and 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.120 um 00:17:28.679 --> 00:17:32.820 it's not the BR and all of something 00:17:32.820 --> 00:17:34.559 but this meditation is interesting 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.900 because you notice that you start the 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:38.520 dispositional state 00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:40.679 it feels like it's right there and then 00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:44.039 we open into like awareness and then the 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.260 idea is like 00:17:46.260 --> 00:17:48.600 what if your dispositional state was 00:17:48.600 --> 00:17:51.179 like this field of awareness 00:17:51.179 --> 00:17:54.380 it would be less 00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:58.380 yeah 00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:01.799 and in fact every dispositional state 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.160 opens in that direction you you do your 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:06.960 primary arousal 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.299 proceeds now you open into the world and 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.460 then it you think of your past and your 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:13.940 future now you're open to this larger 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:18.960 awareness and then you know like this 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.260 every moment is an expansion 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:27.440 into these these larger awarenesses 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.160 so yes and no but you can see why 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.380 what I'm saying about 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.240 um some people are just going to be 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:43.919 you might say Contracting all the time 00:18:43.919 --> 00:18:48.080 but we're really just saying you know 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.039 yeah 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.559 it's like the the frog is ready to jump 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.260 all the time when a predator comes is he 00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:56.940 contracted 00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:59.460 you know 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.580 he's just I love it I I mean that move 00:19:02.580 --> 00:19:05.100 you're talking about of if I am a 00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:07.559 constantly nervous person and 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.780 I have my version of that I am a 00:19:09.780 --> 00:19:11.039 constantly 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.720 something personally I don't want to 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.919 name it right now in public 00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:18.980 um 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:25.559 that I find uh like one of my Zan 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.440 Buddhist practitioner 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.000 uh practice partner he he talks about 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.960 how Bliss is not the absence of pain 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.600 for example 00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:42.299 um so the fact that I actually can be 00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:46.980 more expanded to hold whatever I am 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:48.080 um 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:53.160 in in the awakeness and aliveness 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.140 that 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.140 I can maintain 00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:58.679 um 00:19:58.679 --> 00:20:02.520 that is in itself an expanded state 00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:05.240 exactly 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.179 but would you say there are then I don't 00:20:09.179 --> 00:20:10.919 know when we talk about dispositional 00:20:10.919 --> 00:20:13.980 States it it includes things like I 00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.380 guess this is me trying to name it and 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:18.679 you're trying not to name it 00:20:18.679 --> 00:20:21.299 nervousness is that a dispositional 00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:23.400 statement yeah those are words people 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.640 use because it's it's it's not really an 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.500 affect you're not really angry you're 00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:31.919 not really afraid it's a mood I mean we 00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:33.780 only have certain number of words we can 00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:36.179 use so you could you people go like I'm 00:20:36.179 --> 00:20:39.720 kind of nervous or like I you know they 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.880 say things like that 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.160 um but 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.400 um there aren't any formal definitions 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:48.620 for 00:20:48.620 --> 00:20:50.880 dispositional States really I mean you 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.799 can go in there and do neuroscience and 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.140 figure out what's going on in the gut in 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.419 the brain and stuff but 00:20:57.419 --> 00:20:59.700 um yeah you know a lot of some people 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:01.860 say bandwidth like 00:21:01.860 --> 00:21:03.960 do you have a lot you you you're 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.360 throwing a party do you have a lot of 00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:07.799 band you know there's going to be a lot 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:09.419 do you feel like you have a lot of 00:21:09.419 --> 00:21:11.460 bandwidth for whatever happens you know 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:13.559 so that you can use that term as a 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:14.820 disposition State I don't have any 00:21:14.820 --> 00:21:17.340 bandwidth left or whatever 00:21:17.340 --> 00:21:21.120 um so the words we use are 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:24.059 you try to you know 00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:25.320 we don't really they're not really 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:28.140 accurate because but 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:29.280 um 00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:31.140 because if you say I'm really really 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.020 angry in our taxonomy by then you're in 00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:37.919 a in an asset the full-blown asset 00:21:37.919 --> 00:21:40.260 um so 00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:42.480 that's the you know the word really is 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.960 the mood it's like a mood just the 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.039 environs from 00:21:55.679 --> 00:21:58.919 tired foggy 00:21:58.919 --> 00:22:01.080 all these words can be dispositional 00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:03.799 states too 00:22:04.620 --> 00:22:06.900 alive you know some people just I just 00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:08.520 really feel alive like that's a 00:22:08.520 --> 00:22:10.080 dispositional state what does it mean 00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:12.440 it's 00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:36.860 foreign 00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:41.100 like this so this is new 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:44.940 so I don't have words but I do 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.120 like what you're bringing in 00:22:48.120 --> 00:22:50.179 and bringing the 00:22:50.179 --> 00:22:53.220 I'm taking with bringing the Mind into 00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:56.039 the body and experiencing that 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.799 during the meditation 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.340 and going out with that too so 00:23:02.340 --> 00:23:04.320 I'm just saying I appreciate what you're 00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:07.559 doing but I never have been in a 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.220 tradition to analyze like this so 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:14.480 I welcome it 00:23:22.260 --> 00:23:25.260 I'm not sure if it's really analyzing 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:27.740 but it's nice to feel 00:23:27.740 --> 00:23:30.780 dispositional stages 00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:33.299 instead of the anxiety the emotional 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:37.320 turmoil and to be at this type of peace 00:23:37.320 --> 00:23:41.880 and to expand it and uh but then also to 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.940 let the body do the 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:47.480 feeling 00:23:48.179 --> 00:23:50.760 so this is a key Insight if the body 00:23:50.760 --> 00:23:54.559 knows how to do this 00:23:55.260 --> 00:23:57.539 we don't have to learn with our minds 00:23:57.539 --> 00:23:59.640 how to do it and then somehow instruct 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.780 our bodies it's really a trusting that 00:24:03.780 --> 00:24:06.380 it's a you know an up hierarchy the 00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:09.360 energy comes from the world up through 00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:13.140 these expansions and 00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.200 um 00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:28.620 like you can be here right here now 00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:31.260 was that ramdas is that right 00:24:31.260 --> 00:24:33.179 this is very ROM documents they could be 00:24:33.179 --> 00:24:35.820 right here now and 00:24:35.820 --> 00:24:38.820 aware of this very large 00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:41.460 field of awareness 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.799 you don't have to like start to 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:45.600 dissociate from the body and then get 00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:48.780 into this simulation you know what I'm 00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:51.860 saying and then 00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:55.700 yeah I like that 00:25:01.100 --> 00:25:05.720 there's an organicity to it 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.720 yeah Simplicity and a layered a layered 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:13.799 organicity and the complexity is in 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:15.659 um 00:25:15.659 --> 00:25:20.159 is in the overlapping layers 00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:23.400 exactly that we have words you know even 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:25.559 in this course we chomped it up into 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.659 imagination and memory and this and that 00:25:27.659 --> 00:25:30.360 but those are just for conveniences 00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:33.140 they're really 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:34.919 overlapping but I love this word 00:25:34.919 --> 00:25:36.720 organicity because it's like the the 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.260 body is the organ of awareness 00:25:40.260 --> 00:25:41.100 um 00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:43.559 uh so what are you aware of when you're 00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:45.600 aware that you're aware you're aware of 00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:49.640 the body what the body does 00:25:49.860 --> 00:25:51.860 um 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:57.419 well it opens into and as awareness 00:25:57.419 --> 00:26:00.539 then there's these modalities that 00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:03.559 the identified 00:26:06.179 --> 00:26:09.000 I will say that in my experience 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.940 particularly when I'm doing my pranayama 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:13.740 practices 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:16.440 there are oftentimes almost every day 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.179 where the experience of having a 00:26:18.179 --> 00:26:20.279 physical body disappears 00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:24.740 but the range of flows and their 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:28.380 interactions I experienced that 24 7. 00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:30.539 it's I'm still in a body it's just 00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:32.220 there's some sense of physicality that 00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:33.900 shifts and there's no demarcation line 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:36.120 there as far as I can tell 00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:39.000 and it may be that I can't have those 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.980 types of experiences of not anybody I 00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:43.380 don't know that but I love the 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.779 experience of not having a body yeah 00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:49.200 okay me too like like 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.179 I mean I don't do it anymore but in my 00:26:51.179 --> 00:26:55.200 recent past if I I get three I get 20 30 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.240 minutes into 00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:58.020 um 00:26:58.020 --> 00:27:01.020 sitting meditation you know conventional 00:27:01.020 --> 00:27:04.080 posture and I'd look for my body and it 00:27:04.080 --> 00:27:07.260 was not there and because there's a lot 00:27:07.260 --> 00:27:09.960 of aches and pains like it's a great 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.840 feeling like literally not being able 00:27:12.840 --> 00:27:15.600 now it's not dissociated I I think this 00:27:15.600 --> 00:27:17.820 you're describing because I feel like 00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:21.539 really here like but 00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:24.500 the 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:28.740 yeah there's no there's no information 00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:31.919 it's like being in uh sleep paralysis or 00:27:31.919 --> 00:27:33.900 something no that's too heavy 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:36.539 but then it gets can be very Blissful 00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:38.520 because 00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:40.440 um 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.600 there's a lot of information coming in 00:27:42.600 --> 00:27:44.520 from your body that's you know like 00:27:44.520 --> 00:27:47.039 little aches and pains and worries and 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.380 this and that or something I don't know 00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:51.299 um so yes I agree with you the the 00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:53.460 ability to 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:54.520 um 00:27:54.520 --> 00:27:57.640 [Music] 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.799 you know yeah there's there's 00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.220 just that state experience 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.340 um 00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:11.159 I will say that when you talk about the 00:28:11.159 --> 00:28:13.080 awareness of awareness the analogy that 00:28:13.080 --> 00:28:15.659 I like to use is that 00:28:15.659 --> 00:28:18.120 if I was on the earth and I stepped back 00:28:18.120 --> 00:28:20.940 and I am outside of the earth there's a 00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:24.840 a pace at which the planet is turning 00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:27.240 and that pace is slow enough that it 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.279 feels like Stillness 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.140 and it is sort of a sense of awareness 00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:33.240 and then if I stick back into the 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:35.520 rotation of the planet around the Sun 00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:37.140 that's another 00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:41.779 it's a vastness it I cannot 00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:43.440 name 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.320 but it is like stepping back and then I 00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:48.600 could step back into the 00:28:48.600 --> 00:28:52.260 Galaxy it's like to me there's layers of 00:28:52.260 --> 00:28:54.960 Silence which I cannot 00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:58.200 sense as I am now 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:00.779 and the closer I am to sensing the more 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:04.740 likely there is some word might arise to 00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:08.000 be spoken from that space 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.919 even though the vast majority of those 00:29:10.919 --> 00:29:13.940 spaces have nothing to say 00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:16.799 is like stepping back stepping back into 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.659 Infinity almost 00:29:18.659 --> 00:29:21.840 yeah and for me it's like it's similar 00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:25.020 people so what Justin and I doing we 00:29:25.020 --> 00:29:26.880 just have different ways of Talking to 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.620 Ourselves about things you know it's 00:29:28.620 --> 00:29:30.779 we're not trying to nail down 00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:33.659 definitions but for me that makes me 00:29:33.659 --> 00:29:35.700 think of like 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:37.260 um 00:29:37.260 --> 00:29:40.020 when I'm aware at the perceptual level 00:29:40.020 --> 00:29:42.480 okay the field that is perception let's 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.120 say versus way out in space like you 00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:48.419 were I'm aware that it's a very large 00:29:48.419 --> 00:29:52.559 field and I and I can or cannot attend 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.179 to them and when I'm doing awareness 00:29:54.179 --> 00:29:55.919 practice I'm just not attending to it 00:29:55.919 --> 00:29:59.880 but I'm aware that it's available to me 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:05.520 but aware that these these fields of 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.580 can be made explicate 00:30:08.580 --> 00:30:13.080 um but I'm not attending to them so 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:15.980 uh 00:30:18.120 --> 00:30:20.640 something like that I don't know I mean 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.899 we're saying something similar probably 00:30:21.899 --> 00:30:24.299 something a little different but 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.460 um yeah there are three ranges I am 00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:28.260 sensitive to at the moment and there's 00:30:28.260 --> 00:30:30.659 many that I am not and I just move 00:30:30.659 --> 00:30:33.919 around with them yeah 00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:42.840 for me what it was really important is 00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:45.600 the sense of lucidity 00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:47.220 and 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:48.360 um 00:30:48.360 --> 00:30:50.940 like they say lucid dreaming right it's 00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:53.820 like when you dream and you know you're 00:30:53.820 --> 00:30:56.720 dreaming well what is that quality to me 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.120 the quality of the elusive dream or 00:31:00.120 --> 00:31:01.260 elusive 00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:02.760 non-driven 00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:06.659 uh elicit here is um 00:31:06.659 --> 00:31:09.480 is in this sense of Lucidity which is 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.399 kind of 00:31:11.399 --> 00:31:13.020 um 00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:14.880 so for me 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.779 although in the past spaces have played 00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:22.080 a major role Lucidity doesn't seem to be 00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:27.299 space at all like there's no spaceness I 00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:28.860 mean there's spaces 00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:30.299 but 00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.360 um 00:31:32.520 --> 00:31:35.880 the Lucidity in itself is so when I was 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.559 looking back 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.480 um 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:40.380 um 00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:43.140 what popped up was memories of loose 00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:44.820 spaces of 00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:48.000 when I felt Lucid 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.760 um and and so 00:31:50.760 --> 00:31:53.399 when I say I felt Lucid that's kind of 00:31:53.399 --> 00:31:56.940 an added quality this Lucidity is there 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.120 in some kind of way or I know it's there 00:32:00.120 --> 00:32:02.279 even when I don't know it's there's 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:03.960 something like that 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:05.880 um and 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.940 um 00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:08.640 um 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:10.860 and so there's 00:32:10.860 --> 00:32:14.340 so when I think about awareness it seems 00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:17.279 to be it seems to be kind of a almost 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.679 like breathing breathing in and out like 00:32:19.679 --> 00:32:21.779 Lucy 00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:26.940 nothing or whatever is uh not Lucid 00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:28.200 um 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.360 um so 00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:33.659 um and it seems to be the older I get 00:32:33.659 --> 00:32:38.640 the more easy it is to Simply Be lucidly 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.480 just remember Neti Neti and etit which 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.500 Nitty Nitty for those who don't know 00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:47.940 but then there is the opposite which is 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.760 it which said this and this and these 00:32:50.760 --> 00:32:52.940 two and these two and these two and 00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:56.840 basically they're kind of 00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.500 um happening within this Lucidity and 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.419 and 00:33:02.419 --> 00:33:04.200 so 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.559 for me it's the Lucidity basically 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:10.700 awareness and lucidity seem to be 00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:12.419 identical 00:33:12.419 --> 00:33:15.740 as far as I can do 00:33:34.860 --> 00:33:37.220 so 00:33:37.220 --> 00:33:37.679 [Music] 00:33:37.679 --> 00:33:38.700 um 00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:42.899 my dispositional state today is 00:33:42.899 --> 00:33:45.899 very sluggish 00:33:45.899 --> 00:33:48.179 and 00:33:48.179 --> 00:33:49.500 um 00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.679 and and so I I couldn't help but notice 00:33:52.679 --> 00:33:54.740 I'm usually a pretty 00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:58.399 attentive listener 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:03.360 um but my uh today my ability to be able 00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:07.559 to kind of stay with the instruction was 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.339 there was 00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:11.359 um 00:34:11.359 --> 00:34:15.300 it kept being kind of like it's like I 00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:17.220 was there and kind of not there and 00:34:17.220 --> 00:34:19.320 there and kind of not there 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:23.159 and and what I noticed is there was a 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:25.320 weird way it was mirroring what you were 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:27.540 saying about the 00:34:27.540 --> 00:34:30.020 larger 00:34:30.020 --> 00:34:33.839 perceptual field and what we're what 00:34:33.839 --> 00:34:37.520 we're actually attending to 00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:44.280 at any given moment and 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.399 yeah so that's that's what came up for 00:34:47.399 --> 00:34:49.580 me 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:33.599 so like in in that section on the time 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.200 like 00:35:39.359 --> 00:35:41.820 there's two ways you could go you're you 00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:44.220 could go after that instruction you know 00:35:44.220 --> 00:35:45.960 your whole life and then you start 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.240 attending like we did in the memory 00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:52.500 exercise this this or you could just 00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:55.640 zoom out 00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.460 and not be interested in any of the 00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:01.740 specifics but have this kind of Gestalt 00:36:01.740 --> 00:36:04.200 of the you know all of that that must 00:36:04.200 --> 00:36:05.520 have happened 00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:07.740 you know you don't even it's kind of 00:36:07.740 --> 00:36:09.960 like stepping back and taking it all in 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.119 without attending to any of the pieces 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.839 that you know okay 00:36:15.839 --> 00:36:18.660 oh yeah then I remember that now I'm 00:36:18.660 --> 00:36:21.720 back into like the particular 00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:25.400 um and and 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:29.460 so for me like AJ said I divided it up 00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:32.339 because we remember the past we imagine 00:36:32.339 --> 00:36:35.040 the future so it followed our I divided 00:36:35.040 --> 00:36:36.839 it up because it followed our course and 00:36:36.839 --> 00:36:38.339 that was kind of cool 00:36:38.339 --> 00:36:40.200 but 00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:42.000 the same with the future you could get 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.800 into all kinds of expectations and 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.200 projections about the future 00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:48.480 so you that's kind of like attending to 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.040 everything that might happen in the 00:36:50.040 --> 00:36:52.260 future or you could just realize that 00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:54.839 there's a there's like this whole other 00:36:54.839 --> 00:36:58.140 field that's not yet just like this this 00:36:58.140 --> 00:37:01.440 whole field that was 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:05.040 and so for me that was kind of what the 00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:09.920 exercise was doing for me was 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.720 understanding the backdrop from which 00:37:12.720 --> 00:37:14.880 all these perceptual things happened or 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.880 the memory or the future that's not yet 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.880 that 00:37:21.180 --> 00:37:23.820 there's a vibrancy even the past feels 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:25.200 like vibrant 00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:27.359 and present 00:37:27.359 --> 00:37:30.540 in that way to me right so my past 00:37:30.540 --> 00:37:33.599 experiences don't seem present but this 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.500 whole chunk of reality that I've 00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:40.680 experienced is very present 00:37:40.680 --> 00:37:43.800 as this larger field 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.920 um 00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.400 like sometimes you get into that 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.520 kind of reverie when you're on vacation 00:37:53.520 --> 00:37:55.800 with your family or your husband or 00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:57.119 something and you're just sitting there 00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.160 exhausted and your mind will do that 00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:02.220 like you'll just realize that you all 00:38:02.220 --> 00:38:03.960 the things you went through with this 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.740 person and it comes it comes at you as a 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:09.359 whole like just 00:38:09.359 --> 00:38:12.780 you know you're not tracking 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:17.040 and so this is like you're just aware of 00:38:17.040 --> 00:38:21.119 this relationship this whole field 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.240 um 00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.339 so the time part that was how I 00:38:26.339 --> 00:38:28.140 experienced the tiny part 00:38:28.140 --> 00:38:31.980 like you could take it in all as a chunk 00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:33.240 um 00:38:33.240 --> 00:38:35.700 but in order to do that you can't attend 00:38:35.700 --> 00:38:38.119 to 00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:42.140 the instances of it 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.940 would that be like uh doing 00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.280 still hunting 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.800 I still 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:56.460 so there's the chunk is there 00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.260 but you're not 00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:01.500 moving your eyes to experience exactly 00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.839 it's not what are you looking for you 00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:05.220 don't go looking 00:39:05.220 --> 00:39:06.660 it's 00:39:06.660 --> 00:39:09.780 wow what am I looking at like the whole 00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:12.660 thing is just 00:39:12.660 --> 00:39:16.040 yeah very good connection 00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:29.820 sometimes go ahead go 00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:32.880 this connects with an experiment that 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.700 I've been running 00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:37.260 and 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:39.810 it sort of started with 00:39:39.810 --> 00:39:40.440 [Music] 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:41.660 um 00:39:41.660 --> 00:39:47.220 the map not being the territory and this 00:39:47.220 --> 00:39:50.359 shifting from 00:39:50.359 --> 00:39:54.300 allocentric to egocentric 00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:56.660 and then 00:39:56.660 --> 00:40:02.060 seeing what it's like to 00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:06.780 see and relate to my grandchildren as my 00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:11.220 organs of perception and their 00:40:11.220 --> 00:40:15.619 quality of awareness their 00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:18.780 their relationship with past present and 00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:22.700 future is very different there 00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:26.700 fascination with 00:40:27.359 --> 00:40:31.440 quote reality is very different 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.420 and 00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:37.380 somehow that what we just did is kind of 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.359 a mirror of that experience that I've 00:40:39.359 --> 00:40:41.760 been having 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:45.300 yeah so you know when you come back in 00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:47.339 the fall we have to take the collective 00:40:47.339 --> 00:40:50.460 version of all this and 00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:51.359 um 00:40:51.359 --> 00:40:54.900 so you're aware of all that you're aware 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:57.240 of and then you're aware of that there's 00:40:57.240 --> 00:41:00.660 all that what they're aware of and all 00:41:00.660 --> 00:41:03.060 that actually constitutes 00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:05.520 the awareness of God but sir like this 00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:09.359 this this whole reality is 00:41:09.359 --> 00:41:11.940 fields of awareness 00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:12.660 um 00:41:12.660 --> 00:41:14.099 and 00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:16.880 just like in my own experience I can't 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.320 attend to 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.320 the vastness of any of those fields like 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:24.000 the perceptual field if you want to keep 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.760 it simple 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:29.160 there are other Consciousness that you 00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:31.740 are aware of living this awareness but 00:41:31.740 --> 00:41:35.460 you can't attend to your kids 00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:37.619 you can't get inside their brains and 00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:39.359 they're you know you can't attend to it 00:41:39.359 --> 00:41:41.940 directly so you can get the sense that 00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:43.140 you share 00:41:43.140 --> 00:41:45.480 you know and it's the same you can get 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.480 like this with the bees and the 00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.760 you know once you start thinking like 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.240 that then it's just like 00:41:53.240 --> 00:41:57.119 this you know feel the fields of fields 00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.000 of awareness 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.119 um 00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:04.680 yeah 00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:06.720 and then of course each one of those are 00:42:06.720 --> 00:42:10.339 through time also so 00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:24.599 and and then I think you know that 00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:25.619 phrase 00:42:25.619 --> 00:42:29.339 as I understand well verbeos is like not 00:42:29.339 --> 00:42:31.740 attending means not grasping 00:42:31.740 --> 00:42:34.740 not wanting to look and 00:42:34.740 --> 00:42:36.839 take a snapshot of it so you'll remember 00:42:36.839 --> 00:42:38.940 or you whatever 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:42.480 so uh 00:43:02.220 --> 00:43:04.140 I'm so sorry that I missed the exercise 00:43:04.140 --> 00:43:07.140 meditation 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.920 um 00:43:11.339 --> 00:43:13.020 and there's so many thoughts that I'm 00:43:13.020 --> 00:43:15.900 having kind of web-like right now 00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:19.319 um one would be to just find out what 00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.000 that was like for me to come on and just 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.619 start talking to Bonnie for everyone 00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:24.000 because that would have definitely 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.160 brought us into a very particular state 00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:28.800 right of attention 00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:31.319 um no apologization 00:43:31.319 --> 00:43:33.660 um but I'm I'm reflecting back I was on 00:43:33.660 --> 00:43:36.720 another call and um I did some writing 00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:38.099 after 00:43:38.099 --> 00:43:40.380 just to try to 00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:43.700 trace and track 00:43:43.700 --> 00:43:47.579 the shifts that I was experiencing in 00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:50.040 terms of my attention and I I'm not sure 00:43:50.040 --> 00:43:52.319 I'm using the language correctly so feel 00:43:52.319 --> 00:43:54.780 free to correct me 00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:56.819 um but I was kind of looking at my 00:43:56.819 --> 00:43:59.400 garden and 00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:02.220 um I guess Marie kind of what you were 00:44:02.220 --> 00:44:04.980 saying like I I was getting kind of this 00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:08.579 this it's a tiny little container garden 00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:11.460 and it has mint and it has peas and it 00:44:11.460 --> 00:44:15.720 has kale and and yeah and then I was 00:44:15.720 --> 00:44:17.520 just taking in the Gestalt of it right 00:44:17.520 --> 00:44:20.880 and there's a pleasure to me of seeing 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:25.800 this little world of growing things 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.119 um that my daughter and I have planted 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:28.500 and 00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:30.900 um and then there was this fly 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:33.660 that was on Ali 00:44:33.660 --> 00:44:36.300 and I have a history of not liking my 00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:38.460 eyes because I had an infestation and 00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:40.200 I've killed many flies 00:44:40.200 --> 00:44:40.980 um 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.400 but in this in this moment there was 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.619 something that happened to my visual 00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:50.400 field because of that orchestra's 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.760 quality where it was it was that blue 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:58.040 silver light reflected in the Sun 00:44:58.040 --> 00:45:02.640 on the background of green and so it was 00:45:02.640 --> 00:45:05.400 this you know I I felt this posture of 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.440 moving towards it this 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.819 um 00:45:08.819 --> 00:45:10.400 yeah 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.980 appreciation yeah 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:16.980 um and and then I kind of witnessed 00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:20.460 myself coming back and forth from that 00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:23.700 to once again seeing specific leaves 00:45:23.700 --> 00:45:25.920 and the qualities of specific leaves and 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.940 then panning out once again so just 00:45:29.940 --> 00:45:32.400 um it was a process of 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:37.560 tracking those perceptual shifts as well 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:42.119 as the sensorial and internal shifts of 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.280 thought 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.200 um the sensation of where I was sitting 00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:50.220 the question am I doing this right yeah 00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:52.440 no that's great because 00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.599 we were talking about this on our walk 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:58.460 this morning and that is like 00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:01.800 you know when you attend really well oh 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:03.900 because Jonathan Ralston wrote this book 00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.599 uh the matter with things no then that 00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:08.400 moves that matter it's a chess book but 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.960 he says like 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:12.599 the beauty of Chess is that you get into 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:14.520 the state where you're concentrating so 00:46:14.520 --> 00:46:16.920 hard you're attending so hard that you 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.440 actually experience freedom 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.839 and it seems like a contradiction and 00:46:21.839 --> 00:46:25.079 it's the same like people who are like 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.119 do these little tiny miniature 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:29.160 sculptures and you get completely 00:46:29.160 --> 00:46:32.099 absorbed and you can get absorbed like 00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:35.220 that in your garden and you do 00:46:35.220 --> 00:46:37.500 experience freedom and then you do the 00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:42.540 opposite state where you don't attend 00:46:42.540 --> 00:46:44.099 and 00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:46.859 you experience let's say spaciousness or 00:46:46.859 --> 00:46:50.700 vastness and somehow I think they're the 00:46:50.700 --> 00:46:52.560 kind of the same thing but we have two 00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:55.200 different modes of it's paradoxical 00:46:55.200 --> 00:46:56.940 because you can understand where you can 00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:59.339 feel spacious if you're not attending 00:46:59.339 --> 00:47:01.740 but it's also true that going in the 00:47:01.740 --> 00:47:03.960 opposite direction 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:07.200 and it gives you a sense of freedom and 00:47:07.200 --> 00:47:09.060 they're different you know we experience 00:47:09.060 --> 00:47:11.280 them differently no one would say you 00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.339 get to the exact same experience but we 00:47:14.339 --> 00:47:18.240 use similar words right like so 00:47:18.240 --> 00:47:20.300 um 00:47:20.339 --> 00:47:23.700 so that's that's these this is why it 00:47:23.700 --> 00:47:26.099 was what a contraction I mean like 00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:30.920 it you know they it we just were 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:33.300 investigating The Human Experience 00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:36.660 really but noticing it is cold right and 00:47:36.660 --> 00:47:37.800 then 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.859 um 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:42.119 um 00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.680 noticing that 00:47:46.020 --> 00:47:48.000 yeah the story that comes up with the 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.280 Flies you know maybe maybe you don't 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.380 want that story to come up so fast every 00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:54.300 time you see a fly and 00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:56.280 and then Wonder like what's what's 00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.920 really going on here and 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:02.400 um yeah and 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.640 yeah the in this this notion of your 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:09.920 dispositional state pre-positions you 00:48:10.020 --> 00:48:13.740 to be closer far or you know so all 00:48:13.740 --> 00:48:16.079 these are really the same thing we're 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:18.000 talking about 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.359 um but I love the fact that people 00:48:20.359 --> 00:48:22.980 in this course 00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:25.520 you know are able to use everyday 00:48:25.520 --> 00:48:28.380 experiences every day is called you know 00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:30.540 everyday meditation 00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:32.579 just these normal 00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.800 working with your grandchildren or your 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.920 little Garden or yeah 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:41.220 there's plenty of 00:48:41.220 --> 00:48:44.940 fuel to do all these inquiries in just 00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:48.900 in our everyday normal experience 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.000 like your dog behind you 00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:55.260 oh yes 00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:57.599 hey so is he a bulldog 00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.800 a French Bulldog she's a boxer oh boxer 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.940 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah 00:49:05.339 --> 00:49:08.180 very wise 00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:11.700 yeah just comment on something Bonnie 00:49:11.700 --> 00:49:14.940 because I've noticed myself over time 00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:16.980 that when I am totally focused on 00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:18.960 something and completely absorbed in it 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.920 like a narrow focus and when there is no 00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.980 Focus like in the witness State they 00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:26.780 both 00:49:26.780 --> 00:49:30.180 exhibit time dilation 00:49:30.180 --> 00:49:32.339 and I think that's fascinating that two 00:49:32.339 --> 00:49:34.200 ends of the specimen the farther in you 00:49:34.200 --> 00:49:36.480 go the 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:38.880 almost a slower time gets to the point 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:40.200 where it may stand still in both 00:49:40.200 --> 00:49:41.460 directions I don't know it's pretty 00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.500 fascinating to me that's interesting you 00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:45.720 know and as soon as you said that I 00:49:45.720 --> 00:49:49.920 thought aha yes there's time freedom 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.920 and I never really connected with it 00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.079 that except as an abstraction 00:49:57.240 --> 00:49:59.640 you know he how he says time Freedom 00:49:59.640 --> 00:50:02.220 Gibson talks about the the new new human 00:50:02.220 --> 00:50:04.440 and we'll have this experience of time 00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:05.940 freedom 00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:07.319 hmm 00:50:07.319 --> 00:50:10.680 yeah you're right it's weird that we we 00:50:10.680 --> 00:50:13.200 conceive of them as and they are like 00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:15.720 two different directions and yet they 00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:18.859 have this common 00:50:19.940 --> 00:50:23.300 timelessness or 00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:25.740 yeah you know what brings to mind is 00:50:25.740 --> 00:50:28.859 another once the sine wave at the crest 00:50:28.859 --> 00:50:30.540 of the trough their experiences are the 00:50:30.540 --> 00:50:32.160 same and in the Middle where I spend 00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:35.160 most of my time it's wide open and 00:50:35.160 --> 00:50:36.660 variable 00:50:36.660 --> 00:50:40.460 that's also a great metaphor 00:50:54.240 --> 00:50:59.720 Daniel Ingram will say that these little 00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:04.140 micro rhythms are essentially 00:51:04.140 --> 00:51:06.300 the fundamental 00:51:06.300 --> 00:51:08.579 experience of Consciousness you know the 00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:12.780 so these metaphors we use are 00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:14.460 are shared amongst a lot of 00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:16.079 practitioners in different ways and then 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:17.520 they put different words around them but 00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:19.079 yeah 00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:21.420 I'll throw something brand new in it I 00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:23.700 just read this week is that 00:51:23.700 --> 00:51:26.220 their gravitational waves going through 00:51:26.220 --> 00:51:28.559 us all the time that they just 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.420 discovered that they thought it was just 00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:31.859 like when 00:51:31.859 --> 00:51:34.140 neutron stars merge or something they 00:51:34.140 --> 00:51:35.940 can measure it but and that's only the 00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.099 width of a proton or the hundreds of 00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:39.480 thousands of them with the proton on 00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.400 that shift but apparently there's ones 00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:42.599 that are more subtle they're just 00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:46.079 pervasive which I find fascinating so 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.119 we're being oscillated all over this 00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:50.420 place 00:51:54.839 --> 00:51:59.040 but I'm keep returning to is 00:51:59.040 --> 00:52:02.099 the metaphors from the very beginning of 00:52:02.099 --> 00:52:03.480 the course 00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.660 we were made aware of metaphors in it 00:52:06.660 --> 00:52:09.720 using them and I've been writing stories 00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:12.780 where metaphors actually start to have 00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:15.240 their own life 00:52:15.240 --> 00:52:20.760 Horizon and so on and um 00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:24.300 what I keep noticing in 00:52:24.300 --> 00:52:27.300 the way I'm thinking about reality and 00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:30.780 awareness and the fundamentals 00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:33.359 um like a friend of mine just always 00:52:33.359 --> 00:52:36.420 used to say oh it's fundamental 00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:41.099 but um anyways so so there is you know 00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:44.520 there's all these metaphors and 00:52:44.520 --> 00:52:45.900 there's 00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:50.000 as far as I can see 00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:50.940 um 00:52:50.940 --> 00:52:54.619 no way out of metaphors 00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:57.540 it is as if we're 00:52:57.540 --> 00:52:59.099 continually 00:52:59.099 --> 00:53:01.740 kind of it like 00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:05.059 one thing makes us think of the other 00:53:05.059 --> 00:53:07.619 because they are metaphorically 00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:08.940 connected 00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:12.619 so there is a kind of a 00:53:13.319 --> 00:53:14.720 um 00:53:14.720 --> 00:53:17.579 this and there's fundamental metaphors 00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:19.859 that are different for different people 00:53:19.859 --> 00:53:23.900 somehow fundamental in the sense that 00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:27.839 this metaphors speak to them very deeply 00:53:27.839 --> 00:53:31.619 very strongly and get filled up with 00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:35.220 life like truth was a metaphor that was 00:53:35.220 --> 00:53:38.220 filled up with tons and tons and tons of 00:53:38.220 --> 00:53:42.599 things until I discovered that there is 00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:44.819 no truth 00:53:44.819 --> 00:53:48.720 or truth is a metaphor and and so 00:53:48.720 --> 00:53:52.020 um as we're speaking I'm very much aware 00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:55.040 of these metaphors 00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.680 yeah so 00:54:00.680 --> 00:54:05.700 a metaphor is basically a relationship 00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:08.339 and everything else about existence is 00:54:08.339 --> 00:54:12.800 relationship right so so 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:17.460 if you cut 00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:19.319 the cut you know if you cut metaphors 00:54:19.319 --> 00:54:20.819 all the way down you'd have nothing 00:54:20.819 --> 00:54:23.640 because a medical is just a relationship 00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:27.119 a relationship between this and that 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.240 um 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.460 yeah and in terms of truth you're right 00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:38.220 it's it's it's true you know 00:54:38.220 --> 00:54:41.280 um yeah everybody that's arguing for 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:43.500 truth is arguing from a certain mental 00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:46.859 model like truth as a container or you 00:54:46.859 --> 00:54:49.859 know or truth as 00:54:49.859 --> 00:54:53.280 whatever you know truth does evidence or 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.260 truth and these are all metaphors and 00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:57.500 then 00:54:57.720 --> 00:55:00.380 uh 00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:21.079 seems there's no outside to it 00:55:23.640 --> 00:55:26.660 exactly are you 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:29.819 you're like in sight and yet 00:55:29.819 --> 00:55:34.040 it's so obviously a metaphor 00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:42.119 and what I'm saying is that metaphors 00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:45.359 are metaphors for 00:55:45.359 --> 00:55:48.599 concrete the way things actually happen 00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.940 concretely 00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:52.940 um 00:55:52.980 --> 00:55:55.640 yeah 00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:00.780 there are so many metaphors that are 00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:02.460 those body 00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:07.140 metaphors or bearing weights or 00:56:07.140 --> 00:56:10.740 having empty hands or full heart right 00:56:10.740 --> 00:56:11.940 it's 00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.920 there's a 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.079 um 00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.859 there's also a truth that can come in 00:56:19.859 --> 00:56:25.160 quieting into some kind of deep place 00:56:25.339 --> 00:56:27.900 recognition sort of 00:56:27.900 --> 00:56:30.440 foreign 00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:42.420 they can't do these large leaps 00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:44.040 um 00:57:44.040 --> 00:57:46.319 um I was talking to madelina and I was 00:57:46.319 --> 00:57:48.359 on mute madalina hi I know you had a 00:57:48.359 --> 00:57:50.940 question the other day and we actually 00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:52.859 didn't get a chance to go back to it it 00:57:52.859 --> 00:57:54.420 was about something I wrote 00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:58.920 uh so yes yeah I'm I'm sorry I'm I was 00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:03.119 late no top of the hour is good please 00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.960 well you know it's called the clutch 00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.300 guide 00:58:09.300 --> 00:58:14.780 oh that's and that's not a metaphor 00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:18.119 anyway 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.780 um yeah I mean I have to bring up the 00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:25.200 text but I think it had something to do 00:58:25.200 --> 00:58:28.079 well there's been actually twice with 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:30.900 you in a very significant way that I 00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:32.880 have felt this relief 00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:34.559 at 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:35.579 um 00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:38.599 you know a way that something is 00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:43.260 articulated I mean one was 00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:46.980 I'm still very much metabolizing which 00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:50.040 you said something along the lines of 00:58:50.040 --> 00:58:54.059 you know that if if nothing else you 00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:57.299 know how wonderful it is to just 00:58:57.299 --> 00:59:01.079 become extinct with all the others you 00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.059 know all all the human right right 00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:06.540 something hopeful than that no no no but 00:59:06.540 --> 00:59:09.660 I'm I'm really serious about that I I I 00:59:09.660 --> 00:59:13.799 mean serious not in like um joking but I 00:59:13.799 --> 00:59:16.200 think there's I'm I'm responding from 00:59:16.200 --> 00:59:18.240 how I'm not going to say my body because 00:59:18.240 --> 00:59:20.760 I'm also getting sick of that but I 00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:22.760 don't know what else to say 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:25.140 [Laughter] 00:59:25.140 --> 00:59:26.880 you know 00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:28.799 um the the 00:59:28.799 --> 00:59:32.579 I don't know if organism helps you know 00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:35.599 because we are yeah 00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:38.220 where do you land on that well I 00:59:38.220 --> 00:59:39.559 searched 00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:42.780 in terms of Extinction 00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:46.099 Extinction and organism 00:59:46.099 --> 00:59:49.140 rat organism rather than 00:59:49.140 --> 00:59:50.660 than 00:59:50.660 --> 00:59:53.760 bodies I mean I know you did you say 00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:56.099 bodies in space and I I like that 00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:58.619 because that's already putting it in 00:59:58.619 --> 01:00:00.780 to this 01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:04.680 space thing but organism versus 01:00:04.680 --> 01:00:08.400 well body the the the the useful thing 01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:11.599 about using body is 01:00:13.200 --> 01:00:16.319 you know okay and it's an interesting 01:00:16.319 --> 01:00:18.480 question are they 01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:20.940 or you could you know you could start to 01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:22.380 see 01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:23.700 um 01:00:23.700 --> 01:00:27.740 yeah so at a certain level uh organism 01:00:27.740 --> 01:00:31.319 is useful and that is to show the 01:00:31.319 --> 01:00:33.359 continuity between human life and other 01:00:33.359 --> 01:00:34.920 organisms 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:36.960 and then at a certain level you might 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:39.180 say Well they're 01:00:39.180 --> 01:00:41.940 they're just bodies and then it gets 01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:43.740 complicated people will say but a planet 01:00:43.740 --> 01:00:46.200 is not Auto politically closed blah blah 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:48.180 blah blah and there's all this stuff but 01:00:48.180 --> 01:00:51.299 I use the term body to 01:00:51.299 --> 01:00:55.260 um make the switch into like 01:00:55.260 --> 01:00:58.799 like asteroids and stars in the sun like 01:00:58.799 --> 01:01:00.900 those kind of bodies too we call them 01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:04.079 planetary bodies or you know 01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:06.599 um yeah that that's helpful that it's 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:10.799 not just because I like the idea of like 01:01:10.799 --> 01:01:13.319 the question of how does an organism 01:01:13.319 --> 01:01:15.299 learn how to evolve 01:01:15.299 --> 01:01:17.940 that's a question right 01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:20.819 I think bodies are even simpler and 01:01:20.819 --> 01:01:24.200 lower down the stack let's say and yeah 01:01:24.200 --> 01:01:28.040 especially if you like 01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:34.319 you know some of these things like when 01:01:34.319 --> 01:01:37.200 people walk into a room 01:01:37.200 --> 01:01:39.119 yeah you're an organism but you're not 01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.299 really you don't even have to like 01:01:42.299 --> 01:01:44.700 do anything you just have to be like a 01:01:44.700 --> 01:01:46.799 physical body in that space and it'll 01:01:46.799 --> 01:01:49.440 change things you know so I just just 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:50.880 like 01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:52.140 um 01:01:52.140 --> 01:01:55.140 some people here that have been in my 01:01:55.140 --> 01:01:57.059 course workshops I'll just keep saying 01:01:57.059 --> 01:02:00.599 bodies in space so you just try to 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:02.700 experience what's happening it's just 01:02:02.700 --> 01:02:04.920 bodies moving in space and you get a 01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:06.900 very interesting 01:02:06.900 --> 01:02:08.819 um it's much more simpler and 01:02:08.819 --> 01:02:10.319 fundamental 01:02:10.319 --> 01:02:11.880 but 01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.099 um I wouldn't use that term 01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:16.680 in every every 01:02:16.680 --> 01:02:18.540 contest yeah 01:02:18.540 --> 01:02:22.319 okay I found it it was 01:02:22.319 --> 01:02:25.619 um that we are tied together by one 01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:27.059 causal 01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:31.140 umbilicus that can never be cut 01:02:31.140 --> 01:02:36.319 it's not a law of equal and opposite 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:41.599 it's the law of causal 01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:43.440 interpenetration 01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:45.839 and because of you and you're the cause 01:02:45.839 --> 01:02:50.839 of me we are the effects of each other 01:02:51.359 --> 01:02:54.660 you know I mean this this this hit me in 01:02:54.660 --> 01:02:57.299 this other way I'm not going to try to 01:02:57.299 --> 01:03:01.880 analyze it or you know 01:03:02.240 --> 01:03:05.880 but it was interrupted by the no 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.180 distance 01:03:08.960 --> 01:03:13.140 meaning the effect of it which I'm going 01:03:13.140 --> 01:03:14.420 to continue 01:03:14.420 --> 01:03:18.900 to sort of work with 01:03:18.900 --> 01:03:21.420 um which is kind of what I've done with 01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:24.960 all your texts honestly is really try to 01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:28.799 let them work knee I mean like this is 01:03:28.799 --> 01:03:33.859 almost how I've tried like to 01:03:33.859 --> 01:03:37.799 be with with the the writing you know 01:03:37.799 --> 01:03:40.380 yeah this stuff works me you know like 01:03:40.380 --> 01:03:43.200 half the time I was reading my before 01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:45.599 Socrates again the other day and and 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:48.240 because I've had enough space and and 01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:50.880 I've I read them like I like it doesn't 01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:52.440 seem like I wrote them and I was like 01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:54.420 crying I was like 01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:56.220 and then I was like oh I wrote that 01:03:56.220 --> 01:03:57.299 you're like 01:03:57.299 --> 01:04:01.140 yeah oh I I I I I can see how that would 01:04:01.140 --> 01:04:03.540 happen honestly so I think there's some 01:04:03.540 --> 01:04:05.339 deep meaning there you know but like you 01:04:05.339 --> 01:04:08.220 said I don't unpack it either I just I 01:04:08.220 --> 01:04:09.240 just 01:04:09.240 --> 01:04:12.299 get into these these ways of trying to 01:04:12.299 --> 01:04:14.400 express something that is 01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:17.460 very lucid I use motion like there's a 01:04:17.460 --> 01:04:20.460 Lucidity yes that's needing to be 01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:23.579 articulated and 01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:25.700 um 01:04:26.220 --> 01:04:27.660 yeah 01:04:27.660 --> 01:04:29.940 and then sometimes I read it afterwards 01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:31.619 and I'm in the same state like that's 01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:34.020 really interesting and then my mind 01:04:34.020 --> 01:04:36.900 starts understanding like all the things 01:04:36.900 --> 01:04:39.599 that it could mean 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:40.859 um 01:04:40.859 --> 01:04:45.000 it was so many yeah oh well then that 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:46.920 ones that was on like 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:50.240 it was like on our concept of 01:04:50.240 --> 01:04:52.680 intersubjectivity it's more like you're 01:04:52.680 --> 01:04:54.900 over here I'm over here we're talking to 01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:57.000 each other and somehow we can come to 01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:00.000 the truth right versus 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.839 were actually 01:05:02.839 --> 01:05:06.240 together at a common umbilicus 01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:08.819 and 01:05:08.819 --> 01:05:11.099 and we should 01:05:11.099 --> 01:05:13.200 we should enjoy the diversity of 01:05:13.200 --> 01:05:16.079 opinions but you're never gonna it you 01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:17.940 know even if you come to agree here you 01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:19.980 got a gap in between right and that 01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:21.119 you're actually 01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:24.740 and so for me it's like 01:05:24.900 --> 01:05:27.240 like I don't think 01:05:27.240 --> 01:05:29.040 I think it was Aftershock and he said 01:05:29.040 --> 01:05:30.240 must have been complaining about John 01:05:30.240 --> 01:05:33.299 bravicki that philosophy and Truth is 01:05:33.299 --> 01:05:35.880 dialogical in that sense 01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:37.859 I think 01:05:37.859 --> 01:05:40.140 um we're connected at these deeper 01:05:40.140 --> 01:05:41.280 levels 01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:43.079 and then 01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.500 when we then we sing together 01:05:46.500 --> 01:05:47.339 um 01:05:47.339 --> 01:05:51.780 um and as a single body as Walt Whitman 01:05:51.780 --> 01:05:54.680 said we we 01:05:55.140 --> 01:05:58.200 are composed of many contradictions as a 01:05:58.200 --> 01:06:00.240 human species let's say we're a single 01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:03.839 body what did he say I include I include 01:06:03.839 --> 01:06:07.460 many kinds I can I can change 01:06:07.460 --> 01:06:11.700 multitudes okay exactly 01:06:11.700 --> 01:06:14.420 so 01:06:14.520 --> 01:06:17.700 um so 01:06:17.900 --> 01:06:21.240 well one yeah one thing I wanted to ask 01:06:21.240 --> 01:06:23.880 you in relation to the umbilicus 01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:26.940 is that for a while I've been playing 01:06:26.940 --> 01:06:29.400 around with this notion 01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:31.799 um that before 01:06:31.799 --> 01:06:34.319 being humans you know obviously we're 01:06:34.319 --> 01:06:37.500 mammals but that that the mammal of 01:06:37.500 --> 01:06:41.960 Distinction is that we're all uterines 01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:47.160 and that that gestation and 01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:49.980 um is obviously different than if we 01:06:49.980 --> 01:06:54.180 were in eggs you know outside 01:06:54.180 --> 01:06:58.020 um like chicken latex which which is 01:06:58.020 --> 01:07:01.260 what everything was until whatever this 01:07:01.260 --> 01:07:02.760 particular 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:04.799 Evolution 01:07:04.799 --> 01:07:07.559 um which now you're saying was a virus 01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:10.200 on the reptile and you know whatever 01:07:10.200 --> 01:07:12.119 some speculation 01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:14.819 but it has this amazing thing which is 01:07:14.819 --> 01:07:17.640 the placenta 01:07:17.640 --> 01:07:21.059 which is a temporary organ without which 01:07:21.059 --> 01:07:25.380 the host body would kill 01:07:25.380 --> 01:07:28.980 you know yeah so the the mammalian 01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:33.559 reproductive system is very 01:07:34.740 --> 01:07:37.319 it's these Mysteries these things that 01:07:37.319 --> 01:07:38.819 you if they weren't real you couldn't 01:07:38.819 --> 01:07:43.160 even imagine them like like 01:07:43.980 --> 01:07:47.819 the human uh the the female reproductive 01:07:47.819 --> 01:07:50.160 system is like a it's like a capsule 01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:52.859 inside that yourself it doesn't attach 01:07:52.859 --> 01:07:55.140 everything else is attached from your 01:07:55.140 --> 01:07:57.660 mouth to your anus 01:07:57.660 --> 01:08:00.059 but this thing is not attached from your 01:08:00.059 --> 01:08:02.819 mouth your anus it does it's like a it's 01:08:02.819 --> 01:08:04.980 set up to be like a time capsule or 01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:06.839 something 01:08:06.839 --> 01:08:09.299 you know and 01:08:09.299 --> 01:08:10.160 um 01:08:10.160 --> 01:08:13.380 it's also why theoretically and they you 01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:16.460 know they can grow fetuses in in 01:08:16.460 --> 01:08:19.259 artificial wounds now because literally 01:08:19.259 --> 01:08:21.480 that's how 01:08:21.480 --> 01:08:25.500 That's How uh 01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:27.900 yeah it makes you think like aliens came 01:08:27.900 --> 01:08:31.140 down and put some containers in mammals 01:08:31.140 --> 01:08:32.960 and and 01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:35.699 then forced us to reproduce them or 01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:37.080 something you know what I mean this is 01:08:37.080 --> 01:08:42.779 it's weird that how how autonomous the 01:08:42.779 --> 01:08:45.060 reproductive system is to the rest of 01:08:45.060 --> 01:08:47.759 the body you can't take your heart out 01:08:47.759 --> 01:08:49.920 you can't take your lungs out you could 01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:52.020 take all your reproductive systems out 01:08:52.020 --> 01:08:54.179 you're not going to die it's it's there 01:08:54.179 --> 01:08:56.400 to serve something else something other 01:08:56.400 --> 01:08:57.779 than you 01:08:57.779 --> 01:09:01.739 and that's where those Facts of Life 01:09:01.739 --> 01:09:04.980 okay which you know there's been massive 01:09:04.980 --> 01:09:08.100 debate over the years there's medieval 01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:11.719 you know scientists drawing a whole 01:09:11.719 --> 01:09:14.699 hamuko inside the sperm because the 01:09:14.699 --> 01:09:17.160 woman couldn't have anything to do with 01:09:17.160 --> 01:09:19.440 whatever else happened it was just a 01:09:19.440 --> 01:09:22.400 host you know whatever yeah 01:09:22.400 --> 01:09:25.560 Facts of Life I mean as how we're 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:28.859 gestated that even if they end up 01:09:28.859 --> 01:09:32.279 migrating somewhere else for now at 01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:35.660 least there's a period of intense 01:09:35.660 --> 01:09:39.719 exchange you know between with this 01:09:39.719 --> 01:09:42.000 placenta mediator 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:45.359 which is crucial There's Something About 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:49.640 This us all being uterines 01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.100 that to me speaks to this Unity this 01:09:53.100 --> 01:09:57.860 prior Unity from which you can you know 01:09:57.860 --> 01:10:01.080 differentiate endlessly you know but 01:10:01.080 --> 01:10:03.120 it's not like you're looking for the 01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:05.160 unity you're not looking for the partner 01:10:05.160 --> 01:10:07.140 who's going to be the other half of the 01:10:07.140 --> 01:10:09.420 orange or whatever you know it's like 01:10:09.420 --> 01:10:12.600 we're already part of that unity and I 01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:15.960 think you've talked to this in very 01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:18.840 different ways but you went to umbilicus 01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:22.620 you know and I sort of like went into 01:10:22.620 --> 01:10:26.280 this uterine thing you know because it's 01:10:26.280 --> 01:10:29.460 true for all mammals for now and that's 01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:32.580 good enough yeah and it's also like all 01:10:32.580 --> 01:10:34.920 life on Earth is attached to the sun 01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:36.719 through an umbilicus 01:10:36.719 --> 01:10:38.940 it just doesn't have to be it's not like 01:10:38.940 --> 01:10:42.300 a physical chord but if if but it feeds 01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:45.560 often from the Sun in the same way 01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:49.020 the the fetus feeds off the bloodstream 01:10:49.020 --> 01:10:50.340 of the 01:10:50.340 --> 01:10:53.520 the the mother there is it's a it's 01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:55.500 clearly an umbilical relationship 01:10:55.500 --> 01:10:58.320 between the Earth and the Sun and 01:10:58.320 --> 01:11:00.780 there's a great a video on verastrum 01:11:00.780 --> 01:11:02.820 like what do we actually what is entropy 01:11:02.820 --> 01:11:04.500 but he he asked his questions what does 01:11:04.500 --> 01:11:07.920 the Earth actually get from the Sun 01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:10.020 and 01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:13.920 um so basically it's energy I'll post it 01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:18.239 when I when I uh post the the link when 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:21.840 I uh upload this video but then he says 01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:24.360 okay so the Earth receives energy from 01:11:24.360 --> 01:11:26.820 the Sun Sun how much energy does the 01:11:26.820 --> 01:11:29.719 Earth radiate back 01:11:29.719 --> 01:11:33.480 it turns out 100 100 of what it receives 01:11:33.480 --> 01:11:36.179 it radiates back and then he goes 01:11:36.179 --> 01:11:37.980 through why that's the case because of 01:11:37.980 --> 01:11:40.460 us the Earth would just burn up and die 01:11:40.460 --> 01:11:44.699 and and all living things on Earth are 01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:49.100 part of taking that energy and 01:11:49.100 --> 01:11:52.340 transforming it so that when it goes out 01:11:52.340 --> 01:11:56.400 the other side it's no longer heat it's 01:11:56.400 --> 01:11:59.340 not usable energy and so life on the 01:11:59.340 --> 01:12:02.280 earth is the transduction of energy from 01:12:02.280 --> 01:12:05.760 the from the complex energies when we 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:07.560 get it from the sun it's in a complex 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:08.640 state 01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:13.500 to dissipating it as entropy and this is 01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:16.199 and this is the umbilical relationship 01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.719 between the Sun and the Earth and then 01:12:18.719 --> 01:12:20.400 he asks well how did the Sun get all 01:12:20.400 --> 01:12:22.380 that organized energy in the first place 01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:25.199 and that's its relationship 01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:28.080 in its Journey like it's just 01:12:28.080 --> 01:12:31.040 it's just 01:12:31.500 --> 01:12:33.420 so that's what I mean by umbilical is 01:12:33.420 --> 01:12:38.120 too it goes like it goes like that also 01:12:41.340 --> 01:12:42.600 yeah 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:45.320 foreign 01:12:51.260 --> 01:12:56.400 like the uterine Society or like like 01:12:56.400 --> 01:12:59.640 yeah I've been testing it in different 01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:03.300 places just because it has a kind of 01:13:03.300 --> 01:13:07.100 um I think potential to 01:13:07.100 --> 01:13:11.659 get underneath all these other 01:13:11.659 --> 01:13:15.060 hierarchies and classifications but it 01:13:15.060 --> 01:13:17.250 still sort of has a kind of 01:13:17.250 --> 01:13:17.580 [Music] 01:13:17.580 --> 01:13:18.860 um 01:13:18.860 --> 01:13:23.340 and we need the own Factor yeah it 01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:25.500 should be like at the end of my chapter 01:13:25.500 --> 01:13:28.500 who are we at these people assembled at 01:13:28.500 --> 01:13:31.560 the end of the world we are the uterine 01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.060 uterine yes yes 01:13:38.219 --> 01:13:42.540 no we're we're talking about 01:13:42.540 --> 01:13:44.640 um I think 01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:50.100 um so much of what we're doing together 01:13:50.100 --> 01:13:52.679 is even 01:13:52.679 --> 01:13:55.020 something that really we have to 01:13:55.020 --> 01:13:58.500 recognize has not been done before it 01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:02.460 hasn't been possible to do this 01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:07.440 right here in the zoom call with people 01:14:07.440 --> 01:14:11.580 really I mean I see all the people that 01:14:11.580 --> 01:14:14.640 already know you from before that I mean 01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:17.760 there's there's tremendous 01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:20.940 you know engagement here and it's 01:14:20.940 --> 01:14:23.580 completely indeterminate 01:14:23.580 --> 01:14:29.540 there's no certification there's no 01:14:30.620 --> 01:14:34.920 no but I mean this is extraordinary and 01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:36.659 I think again from an evolutionary 01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:39.900 standpoint this has got to 01:14:39.900 --> 01:14:41.520 have 01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:43.679 a kind of 01:14:43.679 --> 01:14:44.520 um 01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:46.739 at least engages with tremendous 01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:51.060 curiosity yeah I mean the fact that 01:14:51.060 --> 01:14:53.400 like I always say this is true I mean 01:14:53.400 --> 01:14:55.500 the people that come here even people 01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:59.520 who can only come you know not regularly 01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:02.400 like a very high functioning like the 01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:04.620 ability to take in these kinds of 01:15:04.620 --> 01:15:07.560 practices and conversations 01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:08.340 um 01:15:08.340 --> 01:15:10.320 if you take the whole course it's quite 01:15:10.320 --> 01:15:12.120 rigorous you know you have to go slow 01:15:12.120 --> 01:15:14.040 and you have to be patient and you have 01:15:14.040 --> 01:15:14.900 to be 01:15:14.900 --> 01:15:18.060 uh disciplined 01:15:18.060 --> 01:15:24.060 um but you wouldn't see this in 01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:26.760 a structure that says loosely held as 01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:28.500 the pop-up School you wouldn't you 01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:30.179 wouldn't be able to 01:15:30.179 --> 01:15:31.739 see this and 01:15:31.739 --> 01:15:33.780 you know because there's there's much 01:15:33.780 --> 01:15:35.940 more high functioning in the 01:15:35.940 --> 01:15:39.300 in the normal culture and part of it is 01:15:39.300 --> 01:15:40.800 because 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:43.860 um you know everyone on these calls has 01:15:43.860 --> 01:15:45.840 read Around you've read around this 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:47.760 you've read a little that we got Justin 01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:51.659 his emails a lot about physics and you 01:15:51.659 --> 01:15:54.719 know there's so much metaphor we could 01:15:54.719 --> 01:15:58.020 even say there's so much metaphorical 01:15:58.020 --> 01:15:59.460 uh 01:15:59.460 --> 01:16:03.719 content that can be hybridized and 01:16:03.719 --> 01:16:07.860 um and uh then the ability to pay 01:16:07.860 --> 01:16:11.520 attention to your experience and 01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:15.060 and then have a good dialogue so these 01:16:15.060 --> 01:16:17.400 are skills that I think 01:16:17.400 --> 01:16:18.659 um 01:16:18.659 --> 01:16:21.300 that humans have had before but you'd 01:16:21.300 --> 01:16:24.739 usually see them in like uh Jesuit 01:16:24.739 --> 01:16:27.960 communities or something you know 01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:30.540 um in these small places 01:16:30.540 --> 01:16:32.640 um I've been there I've been there 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:35.940 believe me it's not quite like this yeah 01:16:35.940 --> 01:16:38.940 maybe years ago 01:16:38.940 --> 01:16:43.260 um but yeah I mean even the religious 01:16:43.260 --> 01:16:46.320 communities aren't you know like they 01:16:46.320 --> 01:16:47.340 were but 01:16:47.340 --> 01:16:48.960 I think 01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:51.420 um but there's still a smell 01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:54.420 for me yeah what I was about monastic 01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:57.120 last week it was a big 01:16:57.120 --> 01:17:00.659 big argument between the pedagogy for 01:17:00.659 --> 01:17:02.040 the new human they were talking about 01:17:02.040 --> 01:17:05.420 the new human homo 01:17:06.060 --> 01:17:10.739 Amore was a new human okay 01:17:10.739 --> 01:17:12.780 and 01:17:12.780 --> 01:17:15.300 what was on the table was this whole 01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:18.120 lineage monastic lineage 01:17:18.120 --> 01:17:20.159 and you know I was looking at the kids 01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:22.860 at the monastery and I'm like what is 01:17:22.860 --> 01:17:25.860 what is the chance I took a gabster 01:17:25.860 --> 01:17:27.719 approach you know like they were taking 01:17:27.719 --> 01:17:29.640 like a monastic lineage and everybody 01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:31.320 who had to developed this you had to 01:17:31.320 --> 01:17:32.280 have teacher really Authority and all 01:17:32.280 --> 01:17:34.679 that okay I get that but then I said if 01:17:34.679 --> 01:17:37.440 it's truly radical it's got to be latent 01:17:37.440 --> 01:17:39.420 in this system right now and I was 01:17:39.420 --> 01:17:41.040 pointing to the kids which are really 01:17:41.040 --> 01:17:42.540 great at the monastery and I'm like look 01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:44.699 at look who's they were all starting to 01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:45.900 stand up 01:17:45.900 --> 01:17:48.420 and be like they wanted to be recognized 01:17:48.420 --> 01:17:50.760 I'm like it's got to be latent in the 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:53.040 system now so maybe our job is just to 01:17:53.040 --> 01:17:55.620 reflect that back you know 01:17:55.620 --> 01:17:59.699 and it was a huge brouhaha 01:17:59.699 --> 01:18:03.199 um and and 01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:05.420 um 01:18:06.300 --> 01:18:08.699 yeah 01:18:08.699 --> 01:18:10.980 it got pretty it was pretty hot to 01:18:10.980 --> 01:18:12.600 handle but 01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:14.719 um 01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:16.980 that's I think the difference here is 01:18:16.980 --> 01:18:17.940 just 01:18:17.940 --> 01:18:21.980 it's got to be already in the system 01:18:23.040 --> 01:18:25.400 well since you gave me a little segue 01:18:25.400 --> 01:18:28.199 when you talked about what does the sun 01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:30.239 give the earth I thought well how does a 01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:32.100 star form you get cosmic dust and 01:18:32.100 --> 01:18:33.659 there's a certain amount of gravity and 01:18:33.659 --> 01:18:37.080 pressure and it ignites and it made me 01:18:37.080 --> 01:18:38.340 think of this thought that I've had 01:18:38.340 --> 01:18:40.739 before is it on the one end you have 01:18:40.739 --> 01:18:43.320 photons which have no Mass so experience 01:18:43.320 --> 01:18:44.580 no time 01:18:44.580 --> 01:18:46.500 and then you have 01:18:46.500 --> 01:18:49.679 a singularity of black hole which is 01:18:49.679 --> 01:18:51.840 infinitely dense it's completely the 01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:54.540 opposite where there's almost no time 01:18:54.540 --> 01:18:57.360 because apparently it if you could 01:18:57.360 --> 01:19:00.120 survive it as you were falling into the 01:19:00.120 --> 01:19:01.860 Event Horizon of black hole you would 01:19:01.860 --> 01:19:03.480 watch the entire future of the universe 01:19:03.480 --> 01:19:06.179 pass before you rise time slows down 01:19:06.179 --> 01:19:08.760 that much so you have infinite density 01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:12.300 where time virtually stops and no 01:19:12.300 --> 01:19:13.560 density 01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:15.659 in a photon where there is no time 01:19:15.659 --> 01:19:17.400 period 01:19:17.400 --> 01:19:19.320 I just find that fascinating between 01:19:19.320 --> 01:19:22.260 those two opposite ends of the spectrum 01:19:22.260 --> 01:19:24.000 again 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:27.920 but the black hole 01:19:28.620 --> 01:19:31.739 all the time right right but the black 01:19:31.739 --> 01:19:32.760 hole 01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:36.239 all of town is simultaneous right 01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:38.640 it's it's different than having no time 01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:42.179 yeah yeah okay 01:19:42.179 --> 01:19:45.780 it's different but the quality yes like 01:19:45.780 --> 01:19:48.360 those two things yeah I know like 01:19:48.360 --> 01:19:50.159 focused it's almost like the black holes 01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:53.340 focused attention and the photons of no 01:19:53.340 --> 01:19:55.020 attention 01:19:55.020 --> 01:19:57.000 so that might make the black hole the 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:58.440 most conscious thing in the universe I'm 01:19:58.440 --> 01:20:00.600 not sure about that but it's an 01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:01.679 interesting 01:20:01.679 --> 01:20:03.480 notion 01:20:03.480 --> 01:20:06.920 or most attentive yeah yeah right right 01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:10.260 the deepest well you know this is this 01:20:10.260 --> 01:20:13.800 is what uh White had said and it's all 01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:15.719 it's the notion of duration and all 01:20:15.719 --> 01:20:19.159 process philosophy so 01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:20.340 um 01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:23.100 so like when we were holding awareness 01:20:23.100 --> 01:20:25.020 open without attending 01:20:25.020 --> 01:20:28.440 so there's that that notion of the like 01:20:28.440 --> 01:20:31.380 the moment 01:20:31.380 --> 01:20:34.860 like times time doesn't pass until you 01:20:34.860 --> 01:20:36.659 go from one point of attention to 01:20:36.659 --> 01:20:38.219 another point of attention and then 01:20:38.219 --> 01:20:41.280 that's time so if you could open your 01:20:41.280 --> 01:20:43.199 duration 01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:46.860 and then like God has Eternal duration 01:20:46.860 --> 01:20:49.260 so it's like the black hole he's aware 01:20:49.260 --> 01:20:52.440 of everything all at once simultaneously 01:20:52.440 --> 01:20:53.960 because 01:20:53.960 --> 01:20:59.640 it doesn't attend he's just that 01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:02.040 um and then you could think of 01:21:02.040 --> 01:21:02.699 um 01:21:02.699 --> 01:21:04.739 different entities having different 01:21:04.739 --> 01:21:06.719 durations like 01:21:06.719 --> 01:21:09.300 um the oscillation of electron would be 01:21:09.300 --> 01:21:12.840 its duration and these wave like things 01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.120 that meditators would be a duration of 01:21:15.120 --> 01:21:18.780 what is possible to be to be open to and 01:21:18.780 --> 01:21:20.940 stuff like that it's a you know all 01:21:20.940 --> 01:21:24.060 these things there there's like 01:21:24.060 --> 01:21:26.460 in our Collective imagination and 01:21:26.460 --> 01:21:29.460 understanding and experiences there's a 01:21:29.460 --> 01:21:33.960 lot of convergence going on in in 01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:36.239 like the meditate like it's amazing that 01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:39.020 Michael Levin who's this physicist 01:21:39.020 --> 01:21:42.239 he's talking to people who Who present 01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:44.340 at science and non-duality because 01:21:44.340 --> 01:21:46.800 they're sensing a convergence of our 01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:49.440 Collective imagination 01:21:49.440 --> 01:21:52.260 um it's really fascinating 01:21:52.260 --> 01:21:54.239 um 01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:56.400 and then even years ago when I first 01:21:56.400 --> 01:21:57.960 started teaching The Graduate Institute 01:21:57.960 --> 01:22:00.239 there was this movement happening but it 01:22:00.239 --> 01:22:02.699 was too new aging people were like you 01:22:02.699 --> 01:22:05.400 know watching what the bleep what to 01:22:05.400 --> 01:22:07.020 believe do we know and thinking that 01:22:07.020 --> 01:22:08.580 they could use their minds and walk 01:22:08.580 --> 01:22:11.760 through walls right like very but but 01:22:11.760 --> 01:22:14.540 this is real stuff like in terms of 01:22:14.540 --> 01:22:18.199 hybridization of ideas 01:22:18.659 --> 01:22:20.340 well I 01:22:20.340 --> 01:22:22.860 in my own way of seeing things it does 01:22:22.860 --> 01:22:26.280 seem like playing with the ideas begins 01:22:26.280 --> 01:22:28.320 to resonate my body with the space from 01:22:28.320 --> 01:22:32.360 which the audience came from yeah 01:22:33.360 --> 01:22:36.239 all these perspective reversals are also 01:22:36.239 --> 01:22:39.179 very generative of complete new ways of 01:22:39.179 --> 01:22:40.860 understanding reality 01:22:40.860 --> 01:22:43.440 like seeing us as uterines or just like 01:22:43.440 --> 01:22:45.840 you say I don't I'm experiencing that 01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:47.820 ideas but the space that the eye these 01:22:47.820 --> 01:22:50.280 are all uh they're not simple 01:22:50.280 --> 01:22:52.500 perspectives they're what I call Vantage 01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:56.940 Point shifts and this is actually what 01:22:56.940 --> 01:22:58.800 needs to happen 01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:00.480 um 01:23:00.480 --> 01:23:02.699 before something completely new to 01:23:02.699 --> 01:23:04.679 happen you know like these bands these 01:23:04.679 --> 01:23:06.480 huge 01:23:06.480 --> 01:23:10.400 Vantage Point shifts like in my my my 01:23:10.400 --> 01:23:13.380 is it toast article when I I talked 01:23:13.380 --> 01:23:15.480 about being stuck on a planet hanging 01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:18.360 upside down you know like chat jvt 01:23:18.360 --> 01:23:20.880 couldn't figure couldn't figure that out 01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:23.699 that was absolutely I haven't read that 01:23:23.699 --> 01:23:27.480 yet fantastic fantastic 01:23:27.480 --> 01:23:29.820 I don't know if anybody's checked out 01:23:29.820 --> 01:23:33.239 this Sarah Walker and we Cronin and 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.600 their time is an object 01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:38.340 I have one of your books 01:23:38.340 --> 01:23:41.159 oh what do you think of um I haven't 01:23:41.159 --> 01:23:42.659 really read it yet it's got a lot of 01:23:42.659 --> 01:23:44.780 math 01:23:45.300 --> 01:23:47.699 well I mean they had a conversation with 01:23:47.699 --> 01:23:48.719 Jim Wright 01:23:48.719 --> 01:23:51.300 um that 01:23:51.300 --> 01:23:54.960 again I I couldn't report yeah there's 01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:57.900 it's interesting there's a lot of uh 01:23:57.900 --> 01:24:00.540 what's his name 01:24:00.540 --> 01:24:02.699 um a lot of people philosophers and 01:24:02.699 --> 01:24:04.800 physicists have been re trying to 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:08.580 reconstruct re conceptualize time 01:24:08.580 --> 01:24:12.300 for for a long time so 01:24:12.300 --> 01:24:14.280 I do have one of their books I think 01:24:14.280 --> 01:24:17.219 it's a company uh volume of other 01:24:17.219 --> 01:24:20.820 editors but I haven't read it yet so 01:24:20.820 --> 01:24:23.520 well the conversation with Jim Rudd 01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:26.420 again because I think part of this media 01:24:26.420 --> 01:24:29.640 of conversation which I don't call it 01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:32.460 I don't call it dialogic I mean I think 01:24:32.460 --> 01:24:34.860 conversation is a beautiful word I mean 01:24:34.860 --> 01:24:36.659 it's to turn 01:24:36.659 --> 01:24:40.500 you know and to towards something so it 01:24:40.500 --> 01:24:45.300 I feel that heliotropic thing if the 01:24:45.300 --> 01:24:48.060 conversation draws me in then it's you 01:24:48.060 --> 01:24:50.100 know that's enough 01:24:50.100 --> 01:24:52.500 um and the conversation is 01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:57.239 is pretty uh animated and 01:24:57.239 --> 01:25:00.500 um anyway I'd be curious to hear 01:25:00.500 --> 01:25:03.659 especially how you yeah 01:25:03.659 --> 01:25:05.540 um 01:25:05.540 --> 01:25:09.840 see it because of the materiality of it 01:25:09.840 --> 01:25:14.820 I I found that pretty powerful 01:25:14.820 --> 01:25:18.120 it seems to dovetail nicely with 01:25:18.120 --> 01:25:21.239 some of this work yeah 01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:24.300 of the Mind back and body body back in 01:25:24.300 --> 01:25:27.780 nature but then you know nature back in 01:25:27.780 --> 01:25:31.440 time or something like that you know 01:25:31.440 --> 01:25:34.080 because you can't stop at the nature I 01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:36.179 think I mean even though that's sort of 01:25:36.179 --> 01:25:39.239 everything and where everything's from 01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:42.360 um but I don't know if we're capable of 01:25:42.360 --> 01:25:45.659 doing that without sort of 01:25:45.659 --> 01:25:48.719 not stopping there somehow I don't know 01:25:48.719 --> 01:25:52.679 what I'm saying but yeah I mean we could 01:25:52.679 --> 01:25:53.600 use 01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:55.920 you could just go right through our 01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:58.980 course is time it you know there's a 01:25:58.980 --> 01:26:01.500 time that kind of time that is felt in 01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:04.500 the body like there are there are time 01:26:04.500 --> 01:26:08.100 clocks yourselves and your Baseline 01:26:08.100 --> 01:26:10.320 Global oscillations of your brain 01:26:10.320 --> 01:26:13.679 they're all running time your heart beat 01:26:13.679 --> 01:26:15.300 all these 01:26:15.300 --> 01:26:17.219 um are time Keepers for different 01:26:17.219 --> 01:26:18.840 processes in your body and then you 01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:20.460 could say well it's time 01:26:20.460 --> 01:26:23.460 In My Memory like is it the construction 01:26:23.460 --> 01:26:25.980 of my memory or it's time something I 01:26:25.980 --> 01:26:29.280 imagine is time of pure abstraction 01:26:29.280 --> 01:26:32.639 um is what it if times appear you know 01:26:32.639 --> 01:26:34.219 all these 01:26:34.219 --> 01:26:37.199 these these are all different kinds we 01:26:37.199 --> 01:26:40.440 have just one more time 01:26:40.440 --> 01:26:43.560 and I think that that 01:26:43.560 --> 01:26:45.120 um 01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:47.340 yeah I think that there's and then you 01:26:47.340 --> 01:26:49.500 have the experience of time which is 01:26:49.500 --> 01:26:52.260 plastic as Justin was saying 01:26:52.260 --> 01:26:56.520 um and so I think that 01:26:56.520 --> 01:26:58.739 I think our language is not helpful here 01:26:58.739 --> 01:27:01.260 because maybe there's more things going 01:27:01.260 --> 01:27:04.080 on than just this word time I mean we 01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:06.679 have this one word time and then we like 01:27:06.679 --> 01:27:09.060 and so maybe 01:27:09.060 --> 01:27:11.159 Maybe 01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:14.280 that's one of the problems maybe there 01:27:14.280 --> 01:27:16.320 there we use the same word for different 01:27:16.320 --> 01:27:19.380 elements of reality I don't know you 01:27:19.380 --> 01:27:20.820 know 01:27:20.820 --> 01:27:23.280 um and the fact that we just use the 01:27:23.280 --> 01:27:27.120 same word makes us feel like 01:27:27.120 --> 01:27:30.060 they're different aspects to the same 01:27:30.060 --> 01:27:32.340 thing but maybe it's not maybe 01:27:32.340 --> 01:27:34.380 maybe there's something else going on I 01:27:34.380 --> 01:27:36.620 don't know 01:27:36.620 --> 01:27:39.300 I just remembering that you know I did a 01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:41.040 fair number of hallucinogens in my 01:27:41.040 --> 01:27:43.860 younger days late 60s early 70s and 01:27:43.860 --> 01:27:45.840 there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever 01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:48.179 that hallucinogens alter the rate at 01:27:48.179 --> 01:27:50.040 which time it's passing for you 01:27:50.040 --> 01:27:53.460 and um I think that's probably part of 01:27:53.460 --> 01:27:56.159 their benefit because they loosen up the 01:27:56.159 --> 01:27:58.679 space that holds your Notions so that 01:27:58.679 --> 01:28:00.360 you're working you know you're operating 01:28:00.360 --> 01:28:02.760 in a different frame rate which loosens 01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:04.320 up the way you have held things together 01:28:04.320 --> 01:28:07.260 I at least I felt it was it led me to 01:28:07.260 --> 01:28:10.260 yoga back then yeah I consider it 01:28:10.260 --> 01:28:12.600 extremely useful although I have not 01:28:12.600 --> 01:28:13.920 done it since then 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:17.340 yeah yeah and you can start I mean a lot 01:28:17.340 --> 01:28:18.139 of 01:28:18.139 --> 01:28:20.100 what 01:28:20.100 --> 01:28:23.219 meditation is is it opens up so you can 01:28:23.219 --> 01:28:25.860 start to you have enough bandwidth to 01:28:25.860 --> 01:28:30.840 see things happening and and I mean you 01:28:30.840 --> 01:28:33.179 can even feel 01:28:33.179 --> 01:28:36.239 like how your hands work like 01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:38.340 you know what I'm looking I I remember 01:28:38.340 --> 01:28:41.520 holding a banana and thinking it was the 01:28:41.520 --> 01:28:43.500 most marvelous thing because I didn't 01:28:43.500 --> 01:28:46.320 crush the banana nor did it Bob and I 01:28:46.320 --> 01:28:48.840 could feel the perfect Scenic like 01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:51.120 I just thought it was the most marvelous 01:28:51.120 --> 01:28:54.000 thing you know like 01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:54.600 um 01:28:54.600 --> 01:28:57.540 and you can really almost feel 01:28:57.540 --> 01:29:01.679 yourselves and you can uh you can you 01:29:01.679 --> 01:29:04.679 can explore the thought things that are 01:29:04.679 --> 01:29:07.739 thoughts not thoughts themselves but 01:29:07.739 --> 01:29:10.320 you get you get 01:29:10.320 --> 01:29:13.739 you get to see what thought things are 01:29:13.739 --> 01:29:14.760 um 01:29:14.760 --> 01:29:17.580 and all these things are I think you're 01:29:17.580 --> 01:29:21.000 right they come from the fact that 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:23.520 experience slows down or time opens up 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:24.900 whatever 01:29:24.900 --> 01:29:27.300 you want to explain it 01:29:27.300 --> 01:29:28.860 you're reminding me of something when I 01:29:28.860 --> 01:29:30.840 started doing yoga one of the things I 01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:33.780 recognized was that 01:29:33.780 --> 01:29:36.239 thoughts are always at least as I 01:29:36.239 --> 01:29:38.699 experience associated with a particular 01:29:38.699 --> 01:29:41.760 frequency a particular motion and the 01:29:41.760 --> 01:29:43.380 moment that I could separate those two 01:29:43.380 --> 01:29:45.480 the words vanish as if they couldn't 01:29:45.480 --> 01:29:47.420 exist unless they were tied to that 01:29:47.420 --> 01:29:51.540 Sensational experience yes so this is 01:29:51.540 --> 01:29:54.120 exactly 01:29:54.120 --> 01:29:55.980 um thoughts are movements they're 01:29:55.980 --> 01:29:59.880 they're and their micro movements of 01:29:59.880 --> 01:30:02.100 your body and then their movements of 01:30:02.100 --> 01:30:05.400 glial cells and they're actually 01:30:05.400 --> 01:30:06.840 movement 01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:09.560 I mean 01:30:10.440 --> 01:30:12.080 yeah 01:30:12.080 --> 01:30:14.940 it's something the body does 01:30:14.940 --> 01:30:16.739 I I wonder 01:30:16.739 --> 01:30:19.500 um about the relationship between change 01:30:19.500 --> 01:30:21.060 and time 01:30:21.060 --> 01:30:25.199 right so I have a teenage boy and 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:28.920 um he grew like eight inches in a year 01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:31.199 he went from being shorter than me to be 01:30:31.199 --> 01:30:33.659 much taller than me 01:30:33.659 --> 01:30:36.000 um so that the change everyone's talked 01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:39.179 about oh how drastically that change 01:30:39.179 --> 01:30:41.760 happened and how that is reflected that 01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:45.179 the passing of time the developmental 01:30:45.179 --> 01:30:46.620 process 01:30:46.620 --> 01:30:49.199 and then there's also this quality of 01:30:49.199 --> 01:30:51.840 going when when I live by the ocean when 01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:54.000 I go to the ocean when I sit near it 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.520 when I'm in in the presence 01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:58.500 of the water 01:30:58.500 --> 01:31:00.000 it's like 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:04.800 Ancient Ancient room going back to the 01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:11.400 womb idea and time pans out so 01:31:11.400 --> 01:31:12.960 far 01:31:12.960 --> 01:31:14.840 um 01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:18.179 within that developmental progression 01:31:18.179 --> 01:31:20.940 that I've witnessed to in that moment 01:31:20.940 --> 01:31:23.340 um and so and yeah in both of those 01:31:23.340 --> 01:31:27.600 cases it's like a quality of change or 01:31:27.600 --> 01:31:28.620 um 01:31:28.620 --> 01:31:30.960 and then and then the black hole being 01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:33.060 something like is there 01:31:33.060 --> 01:31:35.520 is there change happening in that or is 01:31:35.520 --> 01:31:37.860 that a space where 01:31:37.860 --> 01:31:41.699 there there isn't change until it is I 01:31:41.699 --> 01:31:42.659 don't know 01:31:42.659 --> 01:31:44.699 well you you know 01:31:44.699 --> 01:31:47.580 yeah so your son growing up going really 01:31:47.580 --> 01:31:50.280 fast that's a biological time box right 01:31:50.280 --> 01:31:52.320 we have different but this is a question 01:31:52.320 --> 01:31:56.520 about Justin like a black hole 01:31:56.520 --> 01:32:00.659 is a black hole a whole 01:32:00.659 --> 01:32:02.219 hey 01:32:02.219 --> 01:32:06.120 or it's got It's got a huge amount of 01:32:06.120 --> 01:32:07.920 mass right 01:32:07.920 --> 01:32:11.040 so the fact that we call it a whole 01:32:11.040 --> 01:32:13.620 is only because the way things swirl 01:32:13.620 --> 01:32:15.120 around it and then 01:32:15.120 --> 01:32:18.120 light or whatever can't get away from it 01:32:18.120 --> 01:32:21.719 okay so yeah so the blood you know a 01:32:21.719 --> 01:32:24.420 hole is empty of something and a black 01:32:24.420 --> 01:32:30.739 hole is like the most concentrated Mass 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:35.219 hmm I think it's complicated there 01:32:35.219 --> 01:32:37.560 because originally they thought that you 01:32:37.560 --> 01:32:39.300 can't lose information some information 01:32:39.300 --> 01:32:42.840 was going into the black hole and stays 01:32:42.840 --> 01:32:45.239 there and apparently Hawking radiation 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:46.920 that's coming out it's actually losing 01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:48.900 some of it so I mean nobody knows what's 01:32:48.900 --> 01:32:50.940 going on inside of a black hole right 01:32:50.940 --> 01:32:53.639 but only that light can't escape because 01:32:53.639 --> 01:32:55.679 of the gravity that's it that's what 01:32:55.679 --> 01:32:57.600 makes it black yeah 01:32:57.600 --> 01:32:59.280 and uh 01:32:59.280 --> 01:33:01.980 what Consciousness is doing in there 01:33:01.980 --> 01:33:04.139 fascinates me and I 01:33:04.139 --> 01:33:06.360 I still I don't dwell on it much but it 01:33:06.360 --> 01:33:08.600 comes to mind every once in a while 01:33:08.600 --> 01:33:10.679 okay I know this has something to do 01:33:10.679 --> 01:33:13.320 relatively why can't my escape a black 01:33:13.320 --> 01:33:16.440 hole if it has no Mass 01:33:16.440 --> 01:33:19.080 that's a really good point because it 01:33:19.080 --> 01:33:22.260 shouldn't be affected by Mass 01:33:22.260 --> 01:33:24.560 exactly yeah 01:33:24.560 --> 01:33:27.780 something happens at this at the at 01:33:27.780 --> 01:33:30.719 these speeds there there is a thing for 01:33:30.719 --> 01:33:34.620 relativity they get there's a workaround 01:33:34.620 --> 01:33:36.840 well the shredded stars are going in 01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:38.040 there and they're maybe they're still 01:33:38.040 --> 01:33:39.780 radiating light but it's the particles 01:33:39.780 --> 01:33:41.699 the stars were made from maybe that's 01:33:41.699 --> 01:33:43.920 being sucked in that's possible 01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:46.980 I don't know no I don't either I never 01:33:46.980 --> 01:33:48.120 thought about that so it's interesting 01:33:48.120 --> 01:33:51.780 but you know on the other hand if the 01:33:51.780 --> 01:33:54.000 Big Bang Theory is right and I'm not 01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.940 saying that it is but the gravity and 01:33:56.940 --> 01:34:00.300 the density came before photons 01:34:00.300 --> 01:34:02.760 so that existed first so I don't know if 01:34:02.760 --> 01:34:03.719 that 01:34:03.719 --> 01:34:05.460 I mean I don't even think photons 01:34:05.460 --> 01:34:07.500 photons were one of the first Parts I 01:34:07.500 --> 01:34:10.260 think Clarkson electrons maybe I don't 01:34:10.260 --> 01:34:12.060 remember some plasma with that stuff in 01:34:12.060 --> 01:34:13.920 it but I don't think photons were 01:34:13.920 --> 01:34:16.500 exactly first though I you know 01:34:16.500 --> 01:34:18.900 it interests me and there's no answer 01:34:18.900 --> 01:34:21.780 but I keep reading about it and watching 01:34:21.780 --> 01:34:23.340 things about it 01:34:23.340 --> 01:34:26.040 because I think I was well I'm sorry I 01:34:26.040 --> 01:34:28.199 was just a funny conversation go ahead 01:34:28.199 --> 01:34:31.199 yeah I was trying to like 01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:33.900 um reflect back a little bit of what you 01:34:33.900 --> 01:34:36.179 were saying Bonnie about how time has 01:34:36.179 --> 01:34:37.620 these different 01:34:37.620 --> 01:34:41.460 qualities and Frameworks based on the 01:34:41.460 --> 01:34:44.040 body that we're talking about right so 01:34:44.040 --> 01:34:46.560 the reality of my son the body of the 01:34:46.560 --> 01:34:50.880 ocean the body body yes 01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:54.360 oh so that's good that's good so I 01:34:54.360 --> 01:34:56.159 started by saying well you know the body 01:34:56.159 --> 01:34:59.159 has their clocks and then you took 01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:01.260 what we're trying to do to see these 01:35:01.260 --> 01:35:03.179 other things as bodies and they have 01:35:03.179 --> 01:35:04.920 their own clocks 01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:07.020 hmm cool 01:35:07.020 --> 01:35:10.500 get it very good awesome yeah like The 01:35:10.500 --> 01:35:13.580 evolutionary the ocean is a body right 01:35:13.580 --> 01:35:16.860 the body emotion and and the Mother 01:35:16.860 --> 01:35:18.719 Temple order 01:35:18.719 --> 01:35:21.540 is that that could be a way of 01:35:21.540 --> 01:35:23.760 conceiving what a body is is that it's 01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:27.840 something that is associated with a 01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:30.600 specific well this is exactly what 01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:34.739 Whitehead said that every entity 01:35:34.739 --> 01:35:37.560 has its own specific duration 01:35:37.560 --> 01:35:39.719 and 01:35:39.719 --> 01:35:43.679 that's what makes it uh entity and not a 01:35:43.679 --> 01:35:45.480 heap let's say 01:35:45.480 --> 01:35:46.860 um 01:35:46.860 --> 01:35:50.400 uh yeah I think the Hindus said the same 01:35:50.400 --> 01:35:52.860 thing they said that everything lives 01:35:52.860 --> 01:35:54.840 for 100 years a fruit Finance for 100 01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:56.940 Year Rama lives for 100 years but yeah 01:35:56.940 --> 01:36:00.540 rate of which 100 years is varies 01:36:00.540 --> 01:36:03.139 cool 01:36:04.500 --> 01:36:06.900 that's one of those perspectival shifts 01:36:06.900 --> 01:36:09.300 right instead of saying my dog was 50 01:36:09.300 --> 01:36:13.739 yeah everything was for 100 years 01:36:13.739 --> 01:36:15.480 but from all 01:36:15.480 --> 01:36:18.380 there's like a temporal inertial point 01:36:18.380 --> 01:36:22.320 so there's a and from our inertial point 01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:24.960 the dog was for 15 years but when the 01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:26.760 dogs 01:36:26.760 --> 01:36:29.820 inertial Point temporal inertia it lives 01:36:29.820 --> 01:36:33.440 for 100 years that's really beautiful 01:36:42.679 --> 01:36:46.380 so I'm curious about how like 01:36:46.380 --> 01:36:48.480 um breakage processing kind of keeps 01:36:48.480 --> 01:36:49.920 into this I had a conversation with 01:36:49.920 --> 01:36:50.880 friends 01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:53.219 it was like so excited he wasn't reading 01:36:53.219 --> 01:36:55.440 a book that kind of used this as a basis 01:36:55.440 --> 01:36:56.400 and 01:36:56.400 --> 01:36:58.440 and I was like through this course now 01:36:58.440 --> 01:37:01.380 to reflected reflectivity making like 01:37:01.380 --> 01:37:03.300 kind of the opposite point or like like 01:37:03.300 --> 01:37:06.239 part on the stack like your your section 01:37:06.239 --> 01:37:10.080 you wrote in the memory course about uh 01:37:10.080 --> 01:37:12.600 predictive processing model and how it's 01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:15.300 quite strong and they try to understand 01:37:15.300 --> 01:37:17.040 what's wrong with it 01:37:17.040 --> 01:37:19.560 and and people say but no there's like 01:37:19.560 --> 01:37:21.420 it's still simulate it's still 01:37:21.420 --> 01:37:24.000 predicting uh whatever layer you look at 01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:28.260 it so yeah and wasn't back and forth we 01:37:28.260 --> 01:37:30.659 didn't at some point I was saying okay 01:37:30.659 --> 01:37:32.400 but you know there's some point there's 01:37:32.400 --> 01:37:34.620 something new happening there's no Arab 01:37:34.620 --> 01:37:36.840 predictions failing so what's happening 01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:39.060 there there's an update happening yeah 01:37:39.060 --> 01:37:41.639 and then and then and then what how this 01:37:41.639 --> 01:37:44.340 is happening but it's like kind of like 01:37:44.340 --> 01:37:46.199 there's something missing something not 01:37:46.199 --> 01:37:47.840 explaining there 01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:51.900 yeah so I would say for sure the 01:37:51.900 --> 01:37:54.659 metaphor of predictive processing helps 01:37:54.659 --> 01:37:58.199 open the explanatory inquiry 01:37:58.199 --> 01:38:00.780 um but and I and 01:38:00.780 --> 01:38:02.719 it's as if 01:38:02.719 --> 01:38:05.880 there's predictive processing but I 01:38:05.880 --> 01:38:07.199 don't think 01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:09.179 it's Lucid enough 01:38:09.179 --> 01:38:12.480 to be the the best that we're going to 01:38:12.480 --> 01:38:15.300 come up with in terms of 01:38:15.300 --> 01:38:17.699 um so that I I'm not I'm not arguing 01:38:17.699 --> 01:38:19.139 that it isn't 01:38:19.139 --> 01:38:22.320 powerful to do way to do science and to 01:38:22.320 --> 01:38:25.860 do Ai and stuff like that but 01:38:25.860 --> 01:38:28.880 there's something 01:38:29.580 --> 01:38:33.860 like I wrote on Twitter like when 01:38:33.860 --> 01:38:37.380 when I'm doing math 01:38:37.380 --> 01:38:40.199 my brain is not doing math then what is 01:38:40.199 --> 01:38:41.940 it doing 01:38:41.940 --> 01:38:43.679 you know when I'm doing math one plus 01:38:43.679 --> 01:38:47.040 one equals two or when I'm talking in in 01:38:47.040 --> 01:38:49.920 words when I'm talking a words my brain 01:38:49.920 --> 01:38:53.280 is not talking to itself in words 01:38:53.280 --> 01:38:56.100 but the computational scientists think 01:38:56.100 --> 01:38:58.620 think that when I'm doing math my brain 01:38:58.620 --> 01:39:01.080 is doing math 01:39:01.080 --> 01:39:03.360 this is the same problem my brain 01:39:03.360 --> 01:39:06.000 doesn't talk to itself in math any more 01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:08.219 than my brain talks to itself in words 01:39:08.219 --> 01:39:10.320 when I'm talking 01:39:10.320 --> 01:39:14.400 so I wrote when my when I am doing math 01:39:14.400 --> 01:39:16.800 my brain is not doing math so then what 01:39:16.800 --> 01:39:18.900 is it doing and then people were like of 01:39:18.900 --> 01:39:20.219 course your brain is doing that through 01:39:20.219 --> 01:39:22.440 the computational you know whatever but 01:39:22.440 --> 01:39:24.540 it's the same do you see what I'm saying 01:39:24.540 --> 01:39:26.520 it's the same 01:39:26.520 --> 01:39:29.840 category error 01:39:29.880 --> 01:39:32.460 in fact when I'm doing math my brain is 01:39:32.460 --> 01:39:35.400 doing something much more like what a 01:39:35.400 --> 01:39:37.920 single cell organism is doing in a pool 01:39:37.920 --> 01:39:40.760 of pond water 01:39:42.600 --> 01:39:44.400 which is weird 01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:46.679 but it's much more like that if you see 01:39:46.679 --> 01:39:48.900 neurons connecting and they look like 01:39:48.900 --> 01:39:51.659 little animals like when I'm doing math 01:39:51.659 --> 01:39:53.460 my brain is actually doing something 01:39:53.460 --> 01:39:55.260 much more like 01:39:55.260 --> 01:39:58.679 what organisms do in pond water 01:39:58.679 --> 01:40:02.480 or what continuous sensing continues 01:40:02.480 --> 01:40:05.639 exactly or micro what mycorrhiza I do in 01:40:05.639 --> 01:40:08.040 the soil that's what actually is more 01:40:08.040 --> 01:40:09.900 like what is happening in my brain when 01:40:09.900 --> 01:40:13.400 I'm I'm doing math 01:40:19.159 --> 01:40:22.679 the predictive metaphor as kind of a way 01:40:22.679 --> 01:40:25.460 to explain everything 01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:28.380 in experience there's just noise without 01:40:28.380 --> 01:40:30.659 any like prediction so if you move to 01:40:30.659 --> 01:40:33.540 prediction which is definitely right 01:40:33.540 --> 01:40:36.360 it's coarse grain it's a coarse grained 01:40:36.360 --> 01:40:37.739 model 01:40:37.739 --> 01:40:40.560 um but yeah 01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:42.780 yeah we're radical here 01:40:42.780 --> 01:40:45.780 yes 01:40:46.580 --> 01:40:49.020 one last physics thing because I said 01:40:49.020 --> 01:40:51.420 about a month ago or two 01:40:51.420 --> 01:40:53.760 and then you know it in a double slit 01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:55.980 experiment until it's observed 01:40:55.980 --> 01:40:58.080 it's it's not it doesn't land as a 01:40:58.080 --> 01:41:00.900 particle it's not a particle it's just a 01:41:00.900 --> 01:41:03.900 possibility it's potential and this 01:41:03.900 --> 01:41:06.719 that video I sent you about physicists 01:41:06.719 --> 01:41:08.520 have done the math and they believe that 01:41:08.520 --> 01:41:10.620 black holes are the Observer they're 01:41:10.620 --> 01:41:12.780 acting like the Observer so if that's 01:41:12.780 --> 01:41:15.900 true and big big bang is true The 01:41:15.900 --> 01:41:18.179 Observer came first 01:41:18.179 --> 01:41:22.340 okay so it means that black holes 01:41:22.340 --> 01:41:25.199 Deco hear the wave 01:41:25.199 --> 01:41:28.980 coherence yeah 01:41:28.980 --> 01:41:31.739 they put and and 01:41:31.739 --> 01:41:34.320 um if you watch the video I'm going to 01:41:34.320 --> 01:41:36.719 post an entropy 01:41:36.719 --> 01:41:40.760 um it it turns out what he says is that 01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:44.159 most of the entropy in the universe is 01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:47.060 in black holes 01:41:48.300 --> 01:41:49.619 um 01:41:49.619 --> 01:41:52.139 or no could be the opposite 01:41:52.139 --> 01:41:54.239 I forget well that same video said 01:41:54.239 --> 01:41:56.219 there's an event horizon at the edge of 01:41:56.219 --> 01:41:59.159 the expanding universe that is also 01:41:59.159 --> 01:42:02.340 has an event horizon it infers we are 01:42:02.340 --> 01:42:04.440 inside a black hole well they didn't say 01:42:04.440 --> 01:42:07.380 that but the event was another at the 01:42:07.380 --> 01:42:10.080 edge of the expanding universe and at 01:42:10.080 --> 01:42:12.480 the Event Horizon of a black hole with 01:42:12.480 --> 01:42:15.060 the same kind of structure and this is 01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:18.060 where our ability to mental model is 01:42:18.060 --> 01:42:21.239 very difficult because 01:42:21.239 --> 01:42:23.940 we think of an expanding universe and we 01:42:23.940 --> 01:42:25.380 think of a sphere 01:42:25.380 --> 01:42:28.860 and then the black hole that's at the 01:42:28.860 --> 01:42:30.659 center could be the same black hole 01:42:30.659 --> 01:42:31.800 that's 01:42:31.800 --> 01:42:33.719 at the edge you know what I'm saying 01:42:33.719 --> 01:42:36.780 like like these these 01:42:36.780 --> 01:42:40.139 it's on the black hole the black holes 01:42:40.139 --> 01:42:43.440 could be connected or the same thing as 01:42:43.440 --> 01:42:45.719 the periphery where it's outside exactly 01:42:45.719 --> 01:42:48.060 the the center and the hurricane could 01:42:48.060 --> 01:42:49.560 be the same thing that's pretty cool 01:42:49.560 --> 01:42:53.760 yeah and it's just that we're so limited 01:42:53.760 --> 01:42:55.320 um 01:42:55.320 --> 01:42:57.300 it's very hard to 01:42:57.300 --> 01:43:00.480 live in that kind of a reality 01:43:00.480 --> 01:43:02.340 but I'd love to have my mind boggled 01:43:02.340 --> 01:43:05.239 like that it's fun 01:43:05.820 --> 01:43:08.400 it's uh okay I've got to tie it in it's 01:43:08.400 --> 01:43:10.739 all this is occurring in the field of 01:43:10.739 --> 01:43:13.280 awareness 01:43:19.139 --> 01:43:21.540 would there be awareness without play 01:43:21.540 --> 01:43:23.840 though 01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:31.440 would there be awareness of that play 01:43:31.440 --> 01:43:33.360 well you know some people think it 01:43:33.360 --> 01:43:35.159 depends how you use these terms some 01:43:35.159 --> 01:43:37.860 people say you know play is 01:43:37.860 --> 01:43:40.980 you know this is all a play and Obama's 01:43:40.980 --> 01:43:42.960 head or somebody's head 01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:44.760 um these are 01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:47.159 I guess what I meant was that the 01:43:47.159 --> 01:43:50.520 quality of awareness I think changes 01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:51.960 dynamically 01:43:51.960 --> 01:43:55.320 when something like this happens where 01:43:55.320 --> 01:43:58.560 all of a sudden we just kind of let 01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:01.560 loose and we're talking about things 01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:03.780 that wouldn't help us have a discussion 01:44:03.780 --> 01:44:07.920 with our teenage son immediately but 01:44:07.920 --> 01:44:10.320 then it could you know I'm just thinking 01:44:10.320 --> 01:44:13.219 of you Kimberly 01:44:13.699 --> 01:44:16.560 mine's no longer at home and I certainly 01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:19.440 remember the time in which I had to let 01:44:19.440 --> 01:44:21.179 him know that the fact that he was 01:44:21.179 --> 01:44:23.040 taller than me 01:44:23.040 --> 01:44:27.480 was actually and big you know that when 01:44:27.480 --> 01:44:30.840 the voice came out that my body was 01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:33.480 scared even though he wouldn't 01:44:33.480 --> 01:44:36.540 absolutely was not threatening me in the 01:44:36.540 --> 01:44:39.239 least but I felt like I needed to tell 01:44:39.239 --> 01:44:42.000 him that that effect was beginning to 01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:43.199 happen 01:44:43.199 --> 01:44:45.480 because other people wouldn't say that 01:44:45.480 --> 01:44:48.420 but they would react to him in a way 01:44:48.420 --> 01:44:51.780 that he wouldn't be able to recognize 01:44:51.780 --> 01:44:55.320 you know speaking of bodies and you know 01:44:55.320 --> 01:44:57.000 because he was looking down on me with 01:44:57.000 --> 01:44:58.860 this like deep voice 01:44:58.860 --> 01:45:01.260 and and if he was slightly upset or 01:45:01.260 --> 01:45:03.239 whatever which is totally entitled to 01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:05.639 all of a sudden it was like 01:45:05.639 --> 01:45:08.340 oh my God this is scary you know my 01:45:08.340 --> 01:45:13.260 paleo brain went into like fear and then 01:45:13.260 --> 01:45:15.540 it's like this ridiculous this is this 01:45:15.540 --> 01:45:18.780 is Andre Okay but he needs to know 01:45:18.780 --> 01:45:22.260 that is now capable of having that 01:45:22.260 --> 01:45:25.340 effect bodies in space 01:45:25.340 --> 01:45:29.480 yeah and body is in relationship right 01:45:29.480 --> 01:45:33.360 bodies developing and changing over time 01:45:33.360 --> 01:45:35.600 right like 01:45:35.600 --> 01:45:38.460 eliciting different responses within 01:45:38.460 --> 01:45:39.780 their environment 01:45:39.780 --> 01:45:42.420 something can be a prey one one month 01:45:42.420 --> 01:45:45.300 and the next day be the pleasure right 01:45:45.300 --> 01:45:47.460 well I would argue that Kimberly's 01:45:47.460 --> 01:45:49.739 presence here and which she's 01:45:49.739 --> 01:45:52.760 energetically absorbing is directly 01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:55.199 affecting her son and the people in her 01:45:55.199 --> 01:45:56.219 environment because that's the way 01:45:56.219 --> 01:45:57.840 energy works 01:45:57.840 --> 01:46:00.960 I mean he he will be affected by who you 01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:03.900 are being out of being here it becomes a 01:46:03.900 --> 01:46:07.460 part of you I would say 01:46:08.219 --> 01:46:11.340 and if that's the case then the fact 01:46:11.340 --> 01:46:15.000 that we are now radiating in ways that 01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:17.400 are completely different since what I 01:46:17.400 --> 01:46:20.040 like to call the great confinement which 01:46:20.040 --> 01:46:22.560 was an acceleration and a 01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:25.739 synchronization of our species I mean 01:46:25.739 --> 01:46:29.400 we're all so fascinated by starlings you 01:46:29.400 --> 01:46:30.260 know 01:46:30.260 --> 01:46:32.900 but we were 01:46:32.900 --> 01:46:37.380 synchronized to be at home 01:46:37.380 --> 01:46:41.699 you know whatever home meant and you 01:46:41.699 --> 01:46:43.920 know this has never happened to our 01:46:43.920 --> 01:46:45.540 entire species 01:46:45.540 --> 01:46:49.260 so I think there's something 01:46:49.260 --> 01:46:52.679 from an evolutionary standpoint that you 01:46:52.679 --> 01:46:53.820 know 01:46:53.820 --> 01:46:57.840 a a punctuated equilibrium and and a 01:46:57.840 --> 01:47:01.320 species branching that we're you know 01:47:01.320 --> 01:47:04.380 kind of participating in 01:47:04.380 --> 01:47:08.460 right here and I think with Bonnie so 01:47:08.460 --> 01:47:12.060 much of what I feel is crucial is is 01:47:12.060 --> 01:47:13.560 this 01:47:13.560 --> 01:47:17.460 awareness I mean this this positionality 01:47:17.460 --> 01:47:21.060 and this understanding of of our paleo 01:47:21.060 --> 01:47:24.420 hard wiring which is not negotiable I 01:47:24.420 --> 01:47:26.580 mean unless you want to Lop off some 01:47:26.580 --> 01:47:27.659 part of 01:47:27.659 --> 01:47:29.760 you know your body 01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:32.639 and and how we show up for what's 01:47:32.639 --> 01:47:35.760 already happening not some change that's 01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:38.280 coming in the future I think it's it's I 01:47:38.280 --> 01:47:40.020 think you're absolutely right bunnies 01:47:40.020 --> 01:47:41.699 the kids 01:47:41.699 --> 01:47:43.100 I mean 01:47:43.100 --> 01:47:46.920 teenagers locked for two years that 01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:48.420 would be enough to change the entire 01:47:48.420 --> 01:47:51.679 species I think 01:47:52.080 --> 01:47:55.560 rock and roll did it the atomic bomb did 01:47:55.560 --> 01:47:56.400 it 01:47:56.400 --> 01:47:59.119 you know 01:48:00.260 --> 01:48:03.600 rock and roll the atomic bomb 01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:05.119 yeah 01:48:05.119 --> 01:48:08.900 across modal synthesis 01:48:08.900 --> 01:48:11.699 how is rock and roll like the atomic 01:48:11.699 --> 01:48:14.060 bomb oh they're just the same thing 01:48:14.060 --> 01:48:17.880 they're extreme Cadillac amplifiers of 01:48:17.880 --> 01:48:20.520 latency yeah no I think there's a lot 01:48:20.520 --> 01:48:24.659 going on and and it's nice to see 01:48:24.659 --> 01:48:27.600 um yeah I read I read something today 01:48:27.600 --> 01:48:30.300 the average CEO 01:48:30.300 --> 01:48:33.659 it's I think it's in the U.S is 54 years 01:48:33.659 --> 01:48:35.100 old now 01:48:35.100 --> 01:48:37.500 and it's it's getting younger 01:48:37.500 --> 01:48:39.179 so 01:48:39.179 --> 01:48:39.719 um 01:48:39.719 --> 01:48:42.179 just before the lockdown the the the 01:48:42.179 --> 01:48:44.699 average age of the sea you would never 01:48:44.699 --> 01:48:46.860 know because our government is 01:48:46.860 --> 01:48:49.800 built with like geriatric cases 01:48:49.800 --> 01:48:52.320 but in business it's dropping quite 01:48:52.320 --> 01:48:54.420 radically so 01:48:54.420 --> 01:48:55.199 um 01:48:55.199 --> 01:48:57.360 yeah so don't piss off your friend 01:48:57.360 --> 01:49:01.400 Samuel they're going to be your bosses 01:49:04.380 --> 01:49:05.460 today 01:49:05.460 --> 01:49:07.020 an interesting experience I was I was 01:49:07.020 --> 01:49:09.239 helping your friend moving stuff and we 01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:11.760 were carrying a lot of stuff and then I 01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:13.679 had to think about suddenly what we're 01:49:13.679 --> 01:49:15.560 doing there is like slightly 01:49:15.560 --> 01:49:18.780 reflectivity when moving in short 01:49:18.780 --> 01:49:20.460 corners and then I said okay okay 01:49:20.460 --> 01:49:23.460 opponent processing like this kind of 01:49:23.460 --> 01:49:25.920 back force and feeling into it and then 01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:28.199 so then further thinking I used here for 01:49:28.199 --> 01:49:30.000 electricity using okay with it because 01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:32.460 sometimes you critique or like doubt or 01:49:32.460 --> 01:49:34.699 like 01:49:36.320 --> 01:49:38.400 that's true because there's much more 01:49:38.400 --> 01:49:41.040 going on just like okay feeling into oh 01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:43.320 this direction now back and all this 01:49:43.320 --> 01:49:45.420 it's like there's so much more going on 01:49:45.420 --> 01:49:48.119 that that the metaphor is not not really 01:49:48.119 --> 01:49:50.880 sufficient in a way exactly so I was 01:49:50.880 --> 01:49:53.159 like I was it was a cooler to see that 01:49:53.159 --> 01:49:56.219 and to see even not get stuck in operate 01:49:56.219 --> 01:49:59.159 processing in a way yeah and the problem 01:49:59.159 --> 01:50:01.500 with our opponent processing it says 01:50:01.500 --> 01:50:04.440 zero-sum game more of this lesson yeah 01:50:04.440 --> 01:50:08.520 more of this less than that versus life 01:50:08.520 --> 01:50:11.880 has the ability to for you know like to 01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:13.260 make something out of nothing and 01:50:13.260 --> 01:50:15.360 continue to make it you know there 01:50:15.360 --> 01:50:17.159 there's a lot more going on in the 01:50:17.159 --> 01:50:20.280 excellent yeah it's like I really it 01:50:20.280 --> 01:50:23.520 makes me very happy when people 01:50:23.520 --> 01:50:24.780 um 01:50:24.780 --> 01:50:27.239 when they share things that are like 01:50:27.239 --> 01:50:29.940 everyday things 01:50:29.940 --> 01:50:30.600 um 01:50:30.600 --> 01:50:33.179 use use what we've been talking about 01:50:33.179 --> 01:50:35.760 you know instead of uh 01:50:35.760 --> 01:50:38.699 having them be you know like a lot of 01:50:38.699 --> 01:50:39.960 the stuff we talked about today was 01:50:39.960 --> 01:50:43.619 esoteric but then then 01:50:43.619 --> 01:50:46.080 each yeah the richness of just a regular 01:50:46.080 --> 01:50:49.100 experience you know 01:50:51.179 --> 01:50:54.380 is very important 01:50:59.040 --> 01:51:01.980 oh and you bring that and I think so 01:51:01.980 --> 01:51:04.199 much because my first piece I read I 01:51:04.199 --> 01:51:07.760 told you was the horse where's the 01:51:07.760 --> 01:51:11.760 rewildings yeah cognition and it was 01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:14.639 smack in the beginning of covet I think 01:51:14.639 --> 01:51:16.860 that I read it 01:51:16.860 --> 01:51:20.520 um and and it was like okay here we go 01:51:20.520 --> 01:51:25.940 it's gonna be a wild ride you know 01:51:26.239 --> 01:51:29.040 and and it's like 01:51:29.040 --> 01:51:29.659 um 01:51:29.659 --> 01:51:32.280 fasten your seat belt but at the same 01:51:32.280 --> 01:51:37.080 time go for the discomfort don't try to 01:51:37.080 --> 01:51:41.340 land this I I really like I've gotten 01:51:41.340 --> 01:51:43.020 allergic to 01:51:43.020 --> 01:51:45.780 so many of these operations how does it 01:51:45.780 --> 01:51:48.060 land I don't want to land yeah right now 01:51:48.060 --> 01:51:51.380 I mean I really don't I mean 01:51:51.380 --> 01:51:54.480 obviously maybe it's because I see 01:51:54.480 --> 01:51:57.600 myself more in the sea so it's not 01:51:57.600 --> 01:52:00.719 really about Landing yeah it's it's more 01:52:00.719 --> 01:52:05.100 about like how I surface you know 01:52:05.100 --> 01:52:05.760 um 01:52:05.760 --> 01:52:08.639 because I feel like I'm I've been in 01:52:08.639 --> 01:52:12.360 this sort of saturation diving you know 01:52:12.360 --> 01:52:15.540 um and now I need to go through this 01:52:15.540 --> 01:52:16.940 process of 01:52:16.940 --> 01:52:21.780 decompression yeah very slowly yeah and 01:52:21.780 --> 01:52:23.820 blow up and it's kudos to everybody 01:52:23.820 --> 01:52:27.119 who's been here in the whole course just 01:52:27.119 --> 01:52:29.460 about is 01:52:29.460 --> 01:52:30.600 um 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:32.760 it's the discipline of starting just 01:52:32.760 --> 01:52:35.639 with the dispositional state try and 01:52:35.639 --> 01:52:38.040 then trying to stay in that and then try 01:52:38.040 --> 01:52:40.440 it and stay back so then trying to you 01:52:40.440 --> 01:52:43.320 know and then it really 01:52:43.320 --> 01:52:46.440 builds the capacity to track these kind 01:52:46.440 --> 01:52:49.020 of crazier conversations without having 01:52:49.020 --> 01:52:51.780 all these sliding meetings and 01:52:51.780 --> 01:52:53.699 um and like what Kimberly said about no 01:52:53.699 --> 01:52:55.800 I was talking about clocks and bought it 01:52:55.800 --> 01:52:58.739 was like oh she's reflecting back to me 01:52:58.739 --> 01:53:01.260 so because I was just thinking of bodies 01:53:01.260 --> 01:53:02.159 as 01:53:02.159 --> 01:53:04.440 the body and then she was making like 01:53:04.440 --> 01:53:08.100 one of the things I would have said so 01:53:08.100 --> 01:53:11.520 um yeah so that's really nice to see you 01:53:11.520 --> 01:53:13.679 know we have a couple more classes on 01:53:13.679 --> 01:53:15.900 the awareness to probably go more like 01:53:15.900 --> 01:53:17.880 this I'm not sure and then we'll be in 01:53:17.880 --> 01:53:21.300 Recaps face which will be 01:53:21.300 --> 01:53:22.020 um 01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:25.380 very open dialogue 01:53:25.380 --> 01:53:26.179 um 01:53:26.179 --> 01:53:30.179 just just to share our experience with 01:53:30.179 --> 01:53:32.520 the whole thing and 01:53:32.520 --> 01:53:34.560 um then we have a little bit of break in 01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:36.000 it I'm going to do something different 01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:37.440 with the fall schedule I'm not quite 01:53:37.440 --> 01:53:39.960 sure yet I have some cool ideas 01:53:39.960 --> 01:53:41.760 um but I like to keep people in systems 01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:44.820 no I haven't decided yet so 01:53:44.820 --> 01:53:47.639 um yeah so 01:53:47.639 --> 01:53:48.480 um 01:53:48.480 --> 01:53:50.520 yeah it's been a productive year I mean 01:53:50.520 --> 01:53:53.639 there's a lot of content on there 01:53:53.639 --> 01:53:56.760 um and uh I'm glad you you were there 01:53:56.760 --> 01:53:57.840 too 01:53:57.840 --> 01:53:59.880 I find it almost impossible to write 01:53:59.880 --> 01:54:03.000 without thinking of who I'm writing for 01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:07.139 and it's been very very helpful for me 01:54:07.139 --> 01:54:11.820 to be in the pop-up School space when 01:54:11.820 --> 01:54:15.420 uh when I'm writing so yeah you're a big 01:54:15.420 --> 01:54:16.860 part of it 01:54:16.860 --> 01:54:17.940 yeah 01:54:17.940 --> 01:54:22.139 the placenta the placenta is between all 01:54:22.139 --> 01:54:23.280 of us 01:54:23.280 --> 01:54:25.440 thank you my friends thank you for a 01:54:25.440 --> 01:54:29.100 wonderful Saturday afternoon ## Cohort 5 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.420 are there any questions 00:00:09.420 --> 00:00:13.019 or some noticings that people would like 00:00:13.019 --> 00:00:15.900 to surface or share before 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:18.900 we start this morning sometimes we wait 00:00:18.900 --> 00:00:21.600 we get so I want to do a kind of a 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:25.080 little contemplation and 00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:27.920 late skis 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:31.939 get some people it's burly 00:00:52.579 --> 00:00:56.579 So today we're going to talk about 00:00:56.579 --> 00:00:58.640 um 00:00:58.860 --> 00:01:00.840 we're going to start with awareness and 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:02.160 then we're going to 00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:03.480 um 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:05.939 talk about reflexivity reflexive 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:07.560 awareness 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.560 um 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:12.680 in a little bit 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.580 so let me just put this quite this up on 00:01:20.580 --> 00:01:23.000 the screen 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:30.200 see if we can dive right into it 00:01:39.360 --> 00:01:42.200 just 00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:47.759 what is it that I am aware of 00:01:47.759 --> 00:01:50.520 when I am aware of 00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:53.840 being aware 00:02:10.679 --> 00:02:13.260 what is it that I am aware of when I am 00:02:13.260 --> 00:02:16.319 aware of being aware so 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:18.379 um 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.420 we started by looking at something like 00:02:24.420 --> 00:02:26.520 I have this cool rock 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.819 that Marie gave me 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:32.640 and I can be aware that I'm touching it 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:35.580 I can be aware that I'm looking at it so 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:37.860 that's one level so we have this notion 00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.599 of perceptual depth 00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:46.980 and we use this before and 00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:50.300 um the 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:54.420 course the module on perception so at 00:02:54.420 --> 00:02:56.879 first I just see it's a rock I didn't 00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:59.459 really look at it I predicted that it's 00:02:59.459 --> 00:03:02.099 a rock I'm not really perceiving it and 00:03:02.099 --> 00:03:05.459 then I can perceive it at a certain 00:03:05.459 --> 00:03:06.660 um 00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:09.660 scale a certain depth let's say I see 00:03:09.660 --> 00:03:12.180 it's round this is some three big blobs 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:13.860 then I can 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:16.800 really become more absorbed in the 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.019 perception of it or the tactile feeling 00:03:19.019 --> 00:03:20.760 of it 00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:24.300 um I notice it's a tiny little 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:27.120 hole here that I can't even see but I 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.599 can feel so and then I can 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.819 see really trying to see the patterns 00:03:35.819 --> 00:03:38.819 what make up the pattern so this is 00:03:38.819 --> 00:03:42.299 zooming in and then in order to zoom in 00:03:42.299 --> 00:03:45.120 closer I I would need something like a 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.040 microscope right because now I'm at the 00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:47.959 limit 00:03:47.959 --> 00:03:51.360 of my faculty 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:55.319 so I could continue then to see use a 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:56.640 microscope 00:03:56.640 --> 00:03:59.819 and then a better microscope and I might 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:03.599 even be able to use a scanning electron 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.280 microscope 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.220 so that's one kind of perceptual depth 00:04:08.220 --> 00:04:10.319 it's the same thread all the way through 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:12.540 does that make sense 00:04:12.540 --> 00:04:16.519 This this term we're using 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.560 and then we saw there's something else 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.600 that can happen if I'm really meditating 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.080 on what is perception 00:04:25.080 --> 00:04:27.540 at a certain point I reached the limit 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:31.500 of what I can see and then 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:35.759 I start to see that 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:38.940 their perception of this rock 00:04:38.940 --> 00:04:42.780 is discontinuous you can this is easy to 00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:45.360 do if you look at a DOT on a piece of 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.000 paper and you try to stare at it you 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.820 will notice first for most of us our 00:04:50.820 --> 00:04:53.820 attention is discontinuous you can't 00:04:53.820 --> 00:04:56.880 actually stare at it but if you force 00:04:56.880 --> 00:04:59.100 yourself to stare at it you will notice 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:02.400 that it disappears so at this point 00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:04.740 you're not looking at something about 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:07.580 the rock you're looking at your mind 00:05:07.580 --> 00:05:12.180 your mind is updating recycling updating 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:14.759 uh there's a fatigue that happens when 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.280 you stare at something and then it kind 00:05:17.280 --> 00:05:19.680 of shuts itself down it updates right so 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:21.300 that's a different type of perceptual 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:23.100 depth and this is what happens when we 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:25.919 meditate we start to you start with 00:05:25.919 --> 00:05:28.020 perception and then we're starting to 00:05:28.020 --> 00:05:30.660 actually look at the phenomenon in our 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:34.259 minds there's a orthogonal move to what 00:05:34.259 --> 00:05:36.900 we are seeing 00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:40.620 difference between the two one is just 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:42.720 the same thread all the way through the 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:44.280 other one 00:05:44.280 --> 00:05:47.039 we start to 00:05:47.039 --> 00:05:50.400 look at the virtual aspect of perception 00:05:50.400 --> 00:05:52.919 we start to see the phenomenon in our 00:05:52.919 --> 00:05:55.080 mind that are associated with this 00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:58.860 and this can lead to different insights 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:01.460 is everybody with me so far 00:06:01.460 --> 00:06:05.160 uh no yes okay I would like to presence 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:07.020 that I slept this morning and and not 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:10.080 last night so at the moment you I'm just 00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:12.000 looking at the screen people talking so 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.180 I'll I'll catch up but uh I have a bit 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:19.560 of a brain of uh Fork at the moment 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.199 okay it might be good when we as we 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.020 continue I mean you can leverage brain 00:06:25.020 --> 00:06:26.340 fog 00:06:26.340 --> 00:06:27.000 um 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.900 which will be interesting so yeah yeah I 00:06:30.900 --> 00:06:32.520 just presented so it helps me and and 00:06:32.520 --> 00:06:34.380 you know where I'm at so but yes yes 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:36.120 okay 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.240 no I think that's cool 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:40.680 um 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.500 okay I I and I I followed all your 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:48.000 writings okay to infinitely like but I 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.400 haven't uh watched the video so I'm I'm 00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:53.819 kinda in the loop and kind of love okay 00:06:53.819 --> 00:06:56.360 yeah just 00:07:00.479 --> 00:07:02.039 just 00:07:02.039 --> 00:07:04.680 so now we're going to look at this is a 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.740 different question so now I'm looking at 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:09.300 the Rock 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.180 and I'm using this as a tool to then say 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:14.759 well I'm aware that I'm looking at the 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:16.940 Rock 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:21.840 and is that two things happening when I 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:25.560 look at the Rock and then I can feel 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.740 I'm looking at the Rock and now 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:31.680 I'm in a different state where I'm aware 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.539 that I'm looking at the Rock 00:07:33.539 --> 00:07:35.759 something funny happens 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.639 it's very hard for me 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.419 to look closely at the Rock 00:07:42.419 --> 00:07:45.419 and to then investigate this awareness 00:07:45.419 --> 00:07:47.520 thing at the same time 00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:50.580 I feel it slides I feel it's an 00:07:50.580 --> 00:07:52.440 oscillation 00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:55.319 I feel that 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.979 in the first instance the object is The 00:07:58.979 --> 00:08:00.840 Rock and I'm looking at it and then I 00:08:00.840 --> 00:08:03.360 let my mind slip and say oh I'm aware of 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.000 looking at the Rock and I notice that 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.880 the object of my awareness is no longer 00:08:08.880 --> 00:08:12.300 The Rock it's this awareness thing 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:14.580 so there's this something that slides 00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:16.560 this is a different type of perceptual 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.539 depth does that make it's not like 00:08:18.539 --> 00:08:21.360 either one of the other two 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.220 does that make sense 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:25.379 or at least some kind of sense that we 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:27.419 have three things going on they have 00:08:27.419 --> 00:08:30.360 different biomarkers and you all did 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.120 these exercises earlier and noticed you 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.459 use these terms oscillation 00:08:35.459 --> 00:08:37.680 that 00:08:37.680 --> 00:08:40.680 that there's something happening 00:08:40.680 --> 00:08:42.659 um 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:44.940 that it oscillates between nearly 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.580 looking at the Rock and then you know I 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:50.100 take a stance we talk about it as 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:53.160 getting behind this is just a mental 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:56.339 model and now I'm aware that I was 00:08:56.339 --> 00:08:58.380 looking at the Rock so now we come to 00:08:58.380 --> 00:09:00.540 this question what is it that I'm aware 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:04.339 of when I'm aware of being aware 00:09:04.800 --> 00:09:08.640 and I'm just going to 00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:10.640 um 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.480 at this point I'm just going to instruct 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:17.779 you 00:09:17.880 --> 00:09:21.779 um about a possible answer uh instruct 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:24.420 about a possible answer is interesting 00:09:24.420 --> 00:09:26.459 uh phrase 00:09:26.459 --> 00:09:29.540 and that is 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.540 that if you 00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:34.920 if you 00:09:34.920 --> 00:09:37.500 are not doing we talked about the 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:38.839 difference between 00:09:38.839 --> 00:09:42.480 vipassana which is you really if you 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.959 really try to examine what I'm aware of 00:09:45.959 --> 00:09:50.100 when I'm becoming aware you will slip 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:51.240 into 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.560 looking at the thoughts and then we get 00:09:55.560 --> 00:09:57.180 into this oh well there must be 00:09:57.180 --> 00:09:59.160 something in my mind that's aware of 00:09:59.160 --> 00:10:01.260 being aware and then we get into these 00:10:01.260 --> 00:10:04.320 infinite regress and you'll be able to 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.320 with a certain with a certain type of 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:10.140 inquiry you will be able you will slip 00:10:10.140 --> 00:10:12.779 into a simulation 00:10:12.779 --> 00:10:15.480 and some of us talked about that 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.940 but if you just attend to 00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:26.240 that being aware if you just attempt to 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.380 being aware of being aware 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.060 without 00:10:32.060 --> 00:10:35.339 examining it with your internal eye 00:10:35.339 --> 00:10:36.899 because that will 00:10:36.899 --> 00:10:41.040 slip you into a simulation 00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:43.500 chances are you discover you're just 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:45.480 sitting there it's something that has to 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:47.040 do with your body 00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:51.440 that is it the awareness is 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.339 served up by your body 00:10:57.540 --> 00:11:01.560 if you gently attend to being aware of 00:11:01.560 --> 00:11:03.959 your surroundings 00:11:03.959 --> 00:11:07.440 and now I'm aware the energy 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.200 from my hands 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.839 I notice that this awareness 00:11:12.839 --> 00:11:16.760 is like my body 00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:22.560 it's like the simplest answer 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:26.720 that no one ever comes to 00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:34.500 now you see I'm not this is different 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:37.260 I'm not being aware of my bodily 00:11:37.260 --> 00:11:39.899 Sensations 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:42.720 that's a perception of my body with 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.279 Sensations 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.339 I'm I I'm not 00:11:47.339 --> 00:11:50.519 so so now we've rediscovered like when 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.680 you're aware of your body as Sensations 00:11:52.680 --> 00:11:55.500 you feel this you feel that you see this 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:58.680 you see that this is a fragmentation 00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:00.899 just like when I look around and I see 00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:05.480 this I see that I see this I see that 00:12:07.079 --> 00:12:12.899 this is the the new theory of the body 00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:14.880 so a lot do you see what I'm saying 00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:17.339 mostly when we start working with the 00:12:17.339 --> 00:12:21.360 body we we attend to 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.339 the sights and the smells and the 00:12:23.339 --> 00:12:26.339 sensations and the affects and the 00:12:26.339 --> 00:12:28.980 dispositional state but behind that is 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:31.800 the ability to be aware of those things 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:34.920 which is the body itself 00:12:34.920 --> 00:12:36.240 just like 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.300 I I work on perception I see this I see 00:12:39.300 --> 00:12:41.399 that I see this I can have perceptual 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:45.600 death but the ability for that open to 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.180 be open to have those experience to be 00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:50.160 open to perception 00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:54.420 is the body that is a just the ground of 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:56.959 awareness 00:13:06.959 --> 00:13:09.320 so you start with being aware of 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.579 something maybe just the room 00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:18.380 but just attend to it and then 00:13:21.060 --> 00:13:23.820 what's reflected back as an answer that 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.100 question is just the presence of your 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.120 body 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.740 this is what is 00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.899 it is available it is open 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:39.660 it is present this is 00:13:39.660 --> 00:13:44.240 the receptivity which is awareness 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:02.660 Bonnie's yeah I I remember 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.040 um 00:14:05.040 --> 00:14:06.720 at one point 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.940 you were describing 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:12.240 a relationship to pen 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.279 that had something to do with the fall 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:19.560 you know and your arm and everything and 00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:23.040 I would just hit me was okay this 00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:26.279 awareness this receptivity 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:30.899 how does pain enter into that 00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:32.940 um 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:36.180 of whatever nature because I think in 00:14:36.180 --> 00:14:37.500 that 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:39.560 um 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.040 is a lot of how 00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:46.040 are 00:14:46.040 --> 00:14:50.699 occlusion of the body as receptivity 00:14:50.699 --> 00:14:52.740 kind of gets 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:56.519 maimed it's the relationship to pain I 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:58.220 mean maybe I'm kind of trying to go 00:14:58.220 --> 00:15:02.540 diminish the body because we 00:15:03.959 --> 00:15:07.519 so when Eric uh 00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:10.079 what's his name tall not Eric told 00:15:10.079 --> 00:15:13.339 what's his first name 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.800 the cause the pain body he's not talking 00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:21.959 about your body he's talking about he's 00:15:21.959 --> 00:15:25.380 talking about the pain body uh so pain 00:15:25.380 --> 00:15:27.839 so you when you're 00:15:27.839 --> 00:15:30.680 if you're 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.060 you know mindful or heedful if you 00:15:36.060 --> 00:15:39.180 attend if you can while the pain is 00:15:39.180 --> 00:15:41.639 arising if you can attend to what's 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.500 happening in your experience you will 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:44.540 notice 00:15:44.540 --> 00:15:46.139 that 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.380 the pain is not in your body it's in 00:15:49.380 --> 00:15:52.740 mostly in your mind it's a thought so 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:55.079 you have people that got rushed to the 00:15:55.079 --> 00:15:57.060 hospital and excruciating pain because 00:15:57.060 --> 00:16:00.420 the nail got driven you know Spike got 00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:03.060 driven through their their foot and 00:16:03.060 --> 00:16:06.600 it actually it went between the toes 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.860 so there's all kinds of uh that so 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.300 so 00:16:12.300 --> 00:16:15.600 you can be aware of the structure of 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:16.440 pain 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.500 and say well what if I don't have the 00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:21.360 thought if this guy did that and said 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.579 what if I don't have the thought that my 00:16:23.579 --> 00:16:26.279 leg is maimed and I checked into my body 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.220 he would find oh there's actually 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:31.560 nothing happening 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:33.839 so 00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:35.820 um 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:38.600 so 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.899 the other day a couple of weeks ago I 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:46.399 was at a symposium 00:16:46.680 --> 00:16:48.959 and 00:16:48.959 --> 00:16:51.839 um there was a big brouhaha at the end 00:16:51.839 --> 00:16:53.880 of the second session 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:58.279 and a lot of 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.800 energy that had to be released had to be 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:05.520 released and then the next morning I got 00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:07.799 into my car and I drove into a clearing 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.100 in the woods and I put on some 00:17:11.100 --> 00:17:13.220 um 00:17:13.459 --> 00:17:17.100 evangelist music and danced in the field 00:17:17.100 --> 00:17:20.160 and I was crying and then there were 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.199 like waves I was crying and it was 00:17:22.199 --> 00:17:25.799 joyful dancing you know just purging and 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:27.660 then there would be a contraction and I 00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:31.860 and I'd say but why is it so painful 00:17:31.860 --> 00:17:35.039 why is like I knew I was just and then I 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.559 was like why is it so painful 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.080 and it would be like psychologically so 00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:43.500 and then I caught it the question why is 00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:46.020 it so painful was a thought 00:17:46.020 --> 00:17:48.480 and I just said well what does it really 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.400 feel like crying and it just felt like 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.679 crying 00:17:52.679 --> 00:17:55.500 so every single psychological 00:17:55.500 --> 00:18:00.360 contraction you have around anything 00:18:00.600 --> 00:18:01.620 um 00:18:01.620 --> 00:18:05.820 if it's painful in that way and not just 00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:08.520 something that your a rhythm in your 00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:11.039 body then there's a thought that's 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.559 causing the pain 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.720 and the thought is optional now 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.539 sometimes you have to work out why the 00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:23.480 thought is constructed that way and but 00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:28.500 so you're right the fact that we have 00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:32.280 this mental construct that the pain is 00:18:32.280 --> 00:18:34.799 in the body makes us 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.100 um go into thoughts to try to escape 00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:42.480 them and and this is the big 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.360 bait and switch of 00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:47.400 um prejudicing their mind because the 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.919 pain is is in the thought 00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:53.640 that accompanies in sensation now you 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.260 can be overwhelmed like I was 00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:57.720 overwhelmed with energy and the Terrors 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.780 will come because and then the overwhelm 00:19:00.780 --> 00:19:04.880 with energy we have a habit then to 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.539 go into the mind and that's when it 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:11.700 becomes painful because it attaches 00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:13.980 itself to thought in this case 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:17.100 I was sit I was there being doing my due 00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:19.260 diligence don't get into like who said 00:19:19.260 --> 00:19:22.440 who to what and so I didn't have any of 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.080 those thoughts and then it snuckered in 00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:28.140 but why is it so painful it was so meta 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:33.440 and minimalist I almost didn't catch it 00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:37.140 um yeah so uh 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:39.299 integrate the body Liberate the mind 00:19:39.299 --> 00:19:41.840 right that's it from my Origins itself 00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:44.520 uh series 00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:45.900 um 00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:48.900 it's it's hard to integrate the body if 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:53.039 you don't Liberate the mind and so 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.140 so but what we're saying here too is 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:57.480 that if the ground of awareness is your 00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.760 body this is why you can be aware of the 00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:02.580 thoughts in your mind because the 00:20:02.580 --> 00:20:04.320 question is well how can my mind be 00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:05.820 aware of its own thoughts and you're 00:20:05.820 --> 00:20:09.419 like it can't your body is aware of the 00:20:09.419 --> 00:20:11.280 thoughts in your mind 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:15.320 the body is the resource 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:18.960 um 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.640 I just want to throw another 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.860 um because I'm I'm listening to your 00:20:25.860 --> 00:20:27.600 description 00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:31.260 um or I'm seeing it in my mind of going 00:20:31.260 --> 00:20:35.280 having to go out I mean what what drove 00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:39.780 you to drive out and have this 00:20:39.780 --> 00:20:43.640 and that reminds me of you know some 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:47.100 writing that you did um I think it was 00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:49.820 around the the the the the the 00:20:49.820 --> 00:20:52.799 maple thing and 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.240 you basically say something like 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.080 um we face just one problem and just one 00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:03.720 solution the problem of intimacy and the 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.840 solution of intimacy 00:21:06.840 --> 00:21:11.400 now if we put that together with you 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.220 know just thoughts in the mind 00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:17.820 um and the pain and what has you dancing 00:21:17.820 --> 00:21:20.240 crying and screaming 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:24.059 and you indicated why did this person 00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:28.260 say this or do that so that indicates to 00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:31.320 me that the pain is also connected to to 00:21:31.320 --> 00:21:34.080 this question of intimacy 00:21:34.080 --> 00:21:36.960 and so it's not just oh let's identify 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.960 the thoughts and separate ourselves from 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:41.640 the thoughts and go back to awareness 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.460 which is this very kind of sovereign 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.140 you know 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.000 um 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:52.679 almost self-helpish kind of thing and I 00:21:52.679 --> 00:21:54.419 know that that's not what you're asking 00:21:54.419 --> 00:21:57.059 what I'm saying but let's go back so 00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:00.480 when you're a child in something when 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.120 you're a child you only have so much 00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:05.059 capacity 00:22:05.059 --> 00:22:09.240 and you don't have 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.179 you have awareness but you don't you're 00:22:12.179 --> 00:22:13.740 not aware that you're aware unless 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:15.419 you're one of these precocious children 00:22:15.419 --> 00:22:17.520 sometimes see 00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:19.620 to have all these 00:22:19.620 --> 00:22:23.340 um and you can't your your job as a 00:22:23.340 --> 00:22:26.460 child is to organize reality into 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:28.559 self-other and world 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.360 and you're trying to have a theory of 00:22:30.360 --> 00:22:33.299 causality we talked about this so then 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:35.000 something and then 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.380 psychologically you know the 00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.120 psychological relationship between you 00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:41.760 and adults and parents and stuff uh 00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:44.220 you're very vulnerable okay so something 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.400 happens to your body 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:48.020 um 00:22:48.020 --> 00:22:52.919 and one of the mechanisms is that that 00:22:52.919 --> 00:22:56.520 we have with other animals is you you 00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:58.919 stop being aware 00:22:58.919 --> 00:23:01.260 we call it dissociation but basically 00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:05.340 you're you're just not aware you're you 00:23:05.340 --> 00:23:08.280 can't it's too overwhelming 00:23:08.280 --> 00:23:10.200 um so 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.600 that's a good thing I mean this is a 00:23:12.600 --> 00:23:15.780 good this is a feature not a bug of all 00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:18.179 animal behavior right like when the 00:23:18.179 --> 00:23:21.000 animals die or something 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.480 um prey or whatever so then but then it 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:28.620 gets complicated because when you come 00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:32.580 back you're trying to figure it out 00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:36.059 and trying to figure it out uh 00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:38.220 especially if you're isolated 00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:41.280 is a very complex thing because you 00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:43.679 don't have a mind that has enough 00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:46.860 capacity to figure it out 00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:49.980 so you you makes you make simple 00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:51.600 constructions 00:23:51.600 --> 00:23:54.480 about the good bad mother or the good 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.820 bad father and then you have to figure 00:23:56.820 --> 00:23:59.880 out how can the evil father and the good 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:01.640 father be together 00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:04.799 but this is the only way you could you 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.539 can only organize this is why it's 00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:09.320 called archetypal because archetypes 00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:12.840 comes they're archetypal like and 00:24:12.840 --> 00:24:15.480 they're and dualistic because you just 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.960 don't have a very nuanced mind when 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.280 you're young 00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:26.159 and so so but you will notice 00:24:26.159 --> 00:24:29.820 that this is the work of the mind to 00:24:29.820 --> 00:24:32.039 figure out causality to make good and 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:35.940 bad to categorize so your mind is trying 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.260 to organize things and then it it gets 00:24:39.260 --> 00:24:43.020 these these it's not integrated it's not 00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:46.380 integrated I mean and so they become 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:50.179 categories that your mind 00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:54.840 it's like analyzed you know like like 00:24:54.840 --> 00:24:57.780 your mind this these are deep structures 00:24:57.780 --> 00:24:59.460 that everything else that comes in your 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:02.820 mind is put in those boxes 00:25:02.820 --> 00:25:05.100 and this is something to be liberated 00:25:05.100 --> 00:25:07.440 about so 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.100 um 00:25:08.100 --> 00:25:10.280 um 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:15.200 so 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.539 that's you know these are this is real 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.559 the real part of the human condition 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.460 is 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:25.080 um 00:25:25.080 --> 00:25:27.679 is 00:25:27.679 --> 00:25:29.940 that the 00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:33.419 early ways we organize reality 00:25:33.419 --> 00:25:36.779 over determine us for many many years 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:38.640 going forward 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.279 and they're subject to extremely 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.000 simplistic constructions 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.440 if you're lucky you have a teacher or an 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:50.880 older friend 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.100 who helps you 00:25:53.100 --> 00:25:55.679 understand what's going on 00:25:55.679 --> 00:25:58.860 but in most cases the worse the abuse 00:25:58.860 --> 00:26:02.880 the lonelier you are and so 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:04.020 um 00:26:04.020 --> 00:26:07.620 yeah so and then the and then these 00:26:07.620 --> 00:26:12.840 simple constructions over determine uh 00:26:12.840 --> 00:26:15.659 even your memory of the past 00:26:15.659 --> 00:26:17.700 I mean I worked with it someone once 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.620 that said you know 00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:21.179 uh 00:26:21.179 --> 00:26:26.419 there was this root image of him 00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:30.240 wanting his mother and she didn't come 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.700 and he'd gotten so when he relived that 00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:35.039 he goes and she didn't come and she 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.080 didn't come and eat and she he would cry 00:26:37.080 --> 00:26:39.120 and then he would say but you know I 00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:41.940 know maybe like and I'm like 00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:44.580 none of that is real except that it 00:26:44.580 --> 00:26:46.559 could have been two seconds it could 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.659 have been 30 seconds it could have been 00:26:48.659 --> 00:26:52.140 an hour you don't know because you were 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:55.559 not even walking yet right so I had this 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.779 deep structure 00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:00.900 that he tried to make sense of and it 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.120 just got more and more complex and then 00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:04.679 forgiving her and then understanding 00:27:04.679 --> 00:27:07.020 that she was an adult and but it was 00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:09.480 like in his mind 00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:13.919 it was a huge she didn't come 00:27:13.919 --> 00:27:18.200 she didn't come you know and so 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.659 there was many instances in his life 00:27:21.659 --> 00:27:22.740 where 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:25.500 some small version of that would take on 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:29.480 that much intensity 00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:33.480 um and then once he realized that 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.380 he had no real idea of 00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.720 from a third person objective point of 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.820 view what actually happened 00:27:41.820 --> 00:27:44.700 zero 00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.980 they had no context he didn't have he 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:48.539 was too young to have an objective 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:51.000 Viewpoint of what happened 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.260 so what you just said 00:27:54.260 --> 00:27:57.000 objective Viewpoint I mean is there 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.799 really this third person 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.799 okay so that's that's I think where the 00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.039 intimacy comes in I'm trying to be a 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.100 little bit pushy here no no because I'm 00:28:08.100 --> 00:28:10.140 talking around until until you make a 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.480 thread so 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:17.419 in in the sense that you know if 00:28:17.580 --> 00:28:19.380 I'm I'm gonna make a provocative 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:22.640 statement I I think our our Western 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:28.200 Cosmo Vision as it has habituated 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:29.039 um 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.279 um especially with industrialization and 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.779 spread out 00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:37.580 um is is is is is 00:28:38.419 --> 00:28:42.380 structurally neurotic 00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:47.640 I mean it's not an individual thing 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.900 there's I mean there's this propelling 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:55.140 about advancement you know whatever it 00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:58.440 is I mean it's stage development you 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.140 know whatever there's this 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:04.080 kind of thing that 00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:06.779 um you know and and everything that I 00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:07.500 think 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:12.240 in this work we've been doing is is all 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.600 having to do with slowing the down 00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:21.899 but not into like some La La Land but in 00:29:21.899 --> 00:29:24.960 a way short-circuiting interrupting this 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.659 you know what Walter Benjamin talked 00:29:27.659 --> 00:29:30.240 about the you know the wind of progress 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.620 that that the angel can't even close his 00:29:34.620 --> 00:29:38.960 wings so I'm I'm I'm trying to connect 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.120 with you know what if you said something 00:29:42.120 --> 00:29:44.760 like you know instead of the world's 00:29:44.760 --> 00:29:47.580 power it's the will to relation I mean 00:29:47.580 --> 00:29:50.220 that we're never so we're we're way out 00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:53.039 of our module here and when we start the 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.720 Recaps it will be this kind of 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.480 conversation I mean 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.299 um so so 00:30:00.299 --> 00:30:04.260 yeah it's all good but we got one more 00:30:04.260 --> 00:30:06.000 module here and then we have a whole 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.220 round of Recaps where we're gonna just 00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:10.919 do this and see if people can bring in 00:30:10.919 --> 00:30:12.899 some of their learning because this is 00:30:12.899 --> 00:30:15.659 you know the purpose of life is not just 00:30:15.659 --> 00:30:17.760 to keep asking yourself what what are we 00:30:17.760 --> 00:30:21.659 aware I understand again it's a very we 00:30:21.659 --> 00:30:24.240 work it with these slivers 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.940 um and um and the intersection between 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.279 awareness and intimacy is something we 00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.340 should talk about in the um 00:30:32.340 --> 00:30:35.700 in the recap so sorry I know you have a 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.980 lot of energy and 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:39.980 um 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.980 and it's an interesting conversation but 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:45.120 um yeah 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:46.620 so 00:30:46.620 --> 00:30:47.820 um 00:30:47.820 --> 00:30:51.120 let's see if we can 00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:54.000 um if some people can if they get a 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:55.919 sense of what I'm saying about 00:30:55.919 --> 00:30:58.320 the difference between having the 00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:01.380 question answered in the loopy loopy of 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:04.320 your mind versus 00:31:04.320 --> 00:31:07.200 does anybody get this 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.640 this 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.419 real embodied awareness uh Insight that 00:31:12.419 --> 00:31:14.580 it's it's this that's 00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:20.700 the aware factor it's like just this 00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:23.159 um or you can push back on it also yeah 00:31:23.159 --> 00:31:24.539 Bonnie 00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:26.600 um 00:31:27.080 --> 00:31:30.360 well so I I go to the alembic most 00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:34.020 Thursdays and I sit with Mike and 00:31:34.020 --> 00:31:36.539 you know he'll he'll often do a bunch of 00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:38.760 different things but he always makes his 00:31:38.760 --> 00:31:40.140 way to 00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:41.760 pointing out instructions it's like 00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:42.779 always the 00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.600 uh destination for him 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:47.580 um 00:31:47.580 --> 00:31:53.640 and it's this noticing awareness but uh 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.399 I'm noticing with you it's like it has a 00:31:56.399 --> 00:31:58.200 very different flavor or what you're 00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:01.020 suggesting it sounds different to me 00:32:01.020 --> 00:32:03.899 than what he's suggesting you know he'll 00:32:03.899 --> 00:32:05.940 usually say something like notice it's 00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:08.820 all awareness the whole display it's all 00:32:08.820 --> 00:32:10.559 just awake 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.380 um notice that now 00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:15.659 and you're kind of saying notice it's 00:32:15.659 --> 00:32:18.720 just it's the body that's aware and it's 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.039 like uh 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.080 I guess that's challenging of noticing 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:24.720 that that these instructions or these 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.640 suggestions are fed in through the mind 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.620 and I'm 00:32:28.620 --> 00:32:30.720 taking Michael's word for it and I'm 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.380 taking your word for it and it's 00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:35.279 conditioning the notice thing I'm 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.740 bringing and I'm like I'm on the one 00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:40.080 hand trying to like let go of that uh 00:32:40.080 --> 00:32:42.419 that suggestion that's got me going in 00:32:42.419 --> 00:32:44.220 my mind that's conditioning what I'm 00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:49.039 trying to notice uh but 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:51.840 yeah that's that's what's difficult it's 00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:53.820 like I'm starting with a prompt that's 00:32:53.820 --> 00:32:56.700 in my mind uh and then trying to to 00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:58.980 notice just what's there 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.419 um but at the same time like taking 00:33:00.419 --> 00:33:03.659 taking your word for it at the start 00:33:03.659 --> 00:33:05.100 um I guess that that's where it gets 00:33:05.100 --> 00:33:10.140 tricky yeah yeah so uh a couple good 00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:13.080 good noticing so I am saying something 00:33:13.080 --> 00:33:15.480 very different than what I think Michael 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.179 Taft is saying so you're right there 00:33:18.179 --> 00:33:20.580 it's not like two different sides of the 00:33:20.580 --> 00:33:22.320 coin 00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:24.440 um 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:29.580 so and instructions are are tricky so I 00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:32.159 did instructions the last three sessions 00:33:32.159 --> 00:33:34.620 we did more of 00:33:34.620 --> 00:33:38.580 um a little more of practice but one of 00:33:38.580 --> 00:33:41.039 the things that 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.519 so I so one of the things that we're 00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.460 doing in this course is to have a 00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:49.019 biomarker 00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:52.919 and so a biomarker means if I'm if I'm 00:33:52.919 --> 00:33:55.980 looking at this rock so you can play 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:59.039 with this and and the challenge with my 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.000 work is it's extremely simple 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.279 so if I'm looking at this rock and I'm 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.460 just looking I can feel that 00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:12.320 I'm just looking I don't have 00:34:12.839 --> 00:34:15.419 I can check and feel but I don't feel 00:34:15.419 --> 00:34:17.639 any thoughts in my head I mean it's a 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:18.659 little hard now because I'm actually 00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:21.060 talking but even then believe me I could 00:34:21.060 --> 00:34:25.200 talk without uh without watching any 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:28.560 thoughts in my head okay so so this is a 00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:32.159 biomarker I'm I'm just looking and then 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.679 I I'm going to switch to to wanting to 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:41.700 be aware that I can see the rock okay 00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:44.580 now when I do that 00:34:44.580 --> 00:34:50.300 I want to say did I slip into thought 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.520 when I make that move between just 00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:55.980 looking at the Rock and then 00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:58.320 wanting 00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.700 to 00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:05.240 notice that I'm aware of the Rock 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:09.200 where does the energy go 00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:11.880 if it goes in your head you're running a 00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:14.160 simulation 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:17.280 I would say I think Michael Taft he 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.839 tells people you're always running a 00:35:18.839 --> 00:35:20.220 simulation I think you're running a 00:35:20.220 --> 00:35:21.359 simulation 00:35:21.359 --> 00:35:23.579 so you're looking for what it is that 00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:25.760 it's aware you think it's just awareness 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:29.359 this thing is now a mental thought 00:35:29.359 --> 00:35:31.920 awareness has become an object in your 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:33.119 mind 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.579 that's okay that's 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:38.760 then I can be aware that awareness 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.859 became an object in my mind and I can 00:35:40.859 --> 00:35:44.579 Loop that in my mind or I pop out and 00:35:44.579 --> 00:35:46.140 like what's the where 00:35:46.140 --> 00:35:48.540 of the mind it's just 00:35:48.540 --> 00:35:53.760 my body really so so and that's not a 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:55.740 simulation I mean you're just what's 00:35:55.740 --> 00:35:58.619 it's the same reason why why what's 00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:01.619 aware of the Rock 00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:05.160 not my mind my body is aware of the Rock 00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:07.200 then I can be like 00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:09.660 how am I aware of the Rock and I can 00:36:09.660 --> 00:36:12.900 feel myself start simulating the 00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:13.980 question 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:16.680 simulating awareness in my mind 00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:19.079 so I'm like no not that that's not I'm 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.740 not interested in that I can I'm just 00:36:22.740 --> 00:36:24.960 interested in this single Loop problem 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:26.640 here 00:36:26.640 --> 00:36:29.520 I look around what is it that's aware of 00:36:29.520 --> 00:36:32.520 this it's my body 00:36:32.520 --> 00:36:35.780 turns out the same thing same 00:36:35.780 --> 00:36:39.119 equation that's aware of my mind a 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:41.579 little harder to get to from here but 00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:44.400 that's what I am 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.780 claiming 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:47.040 uh 00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:50.460 and a lot of it has to do with yes the 00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:53.160 instructions and the posture and the 00:36:53.160 --> 00:36:55.859 gesture of the meditation 00:36:55.859 --> 00:36:59.839 um is either going to put you into 00:36:59.839 --> 00:37:02.460 headspace where you will search for 00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:06.000 awareness or it's going to put you into 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.240 just single Loop participation with the 00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:12.000 world uh where you can find the answer 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.640 if you're careful 00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:15.660 um 00:37:15.660 --> 00:37:18.060 so you can play around with the practice 00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:20.760 you shouldn't take it as an instruction 00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.839 um and and but that is my claim it's my 00:37:24.839 --> 00:37:30.060 my and my claim is that uh 00:37:30.060 --> 00:37:32.280 um this 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.140 confusion 00:37:34.140 --> 00:37:36.720 is a root cause of why 00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:37.980 uh 00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:39.900 we are separate from the natural world 00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.119 and we destroy it 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:46.160 um that would be my claim 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:48.540 let's go on to the second slide and come 00:37:48.540 --> 00:37:50.099 back because I think it might be helpful 00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:51.900 too because there's something similar 00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:54.839 going on in the second slide 00:37:54.839 --> 00:37:56.400 um I don't want to go too fast but I 00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:59.700 think when we come back they will help 00:37:59.700 --> 00:38:01.380 each other if that's okay with everyone 00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:04.220 can we do that 00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:06.780 um but it's a good question Apostle has 00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:08.160 the same questions if you work with 00:38:08.160 --> 00:38:12.660 Michael and it's you know it's it's up 00:38:12.660 --> 00:38:18.119 to you to to parse parse that out 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.520 um but the key is 00:38:20.520 --> 00:38:23.700 when you're doing your due diligence 00:38:23.700 --> 00:38:26.460 can you feel that now you're in your 00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:28.500 mind and if you're in your mind it's a 00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:30.660 simulation which is okay it's like if 00:38:30.660 --> 00:38:32.820 you and I were trying to figure out the 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:35.220 plumbing design we'd be like what if I 00:38:35.220 --> 00:38:37.560 put it's a simulation that's all it's 00:38:37.560 --> 00:38:40.740 not it's not bad but then are you 00:38:40.740 --> 00:38:42.599 confused about the category of 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.480 experience that is running here that's 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:47.640 the question 00:38:47.640 --> 00:38:50.400 I would argue that well you know what I 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.720 would argue so let's move on 00:38:55.140 --> 00:38:57.560 okay 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:01.020 thanks for asking the question it's 00:39:01.020 --> 00:39:01.920 really 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.440 the heart of 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.040 uh why I'm an iconoclast 00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:11.040 and don't get asked to parties 00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:13.460 okay 00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:17.640 um I hate this thing here okay 00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:20.300 so 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.960 this is basically one of the questions 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:28.380 uh this is basically behind some of the 00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:31.920 inquiry that Sam brought up so there's 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.079 this cute little book I don't know if 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.320 everybody knows John chosen bass was 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.540 given to me this weekend it says every 00:39:39.540 --> 00:39:40.460 day 00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:42.780 mindfulness of the goal it's actually a 00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:44.940 very nice book unfortunately I'm going 00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:48.060 to beat her up for a certain phrasing 00:39:48.060 --> 00:39:49.680 um 00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:52.500 so she's gonna describe she's going to 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:59.460 Define mindfulness and it's a fairly uh 00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.040 um common description 00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:02.460 [Music] 00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:03.839 um uh 00:40:03.839 --> 00:40:07.200 uh who's that guy uh cobit whatever it's 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:10.740 a fairly con common District description 00:40:10.740 --> 00:40:11.880 so 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.220 she says mindfulness is deliberately 00:40:14.220 --> 00:40:16.740 paying full attention 00:40:16.740 --> 00:40:19.560 to what is happening around you and 00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:25.560 within you in your body heart and mind 00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:28.099 okay 00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:32.060 and I'm going to say 00:40:32.060 --> 00:40:35.760 reflexive awareness 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.880 is attending to what is happening around 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:46.220 you with your body heart and mind 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:48.000 do you see the difference 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.579 what what should we do with the 00:40:49.579 --> 00:40:52.079 reflexive here 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.540 what what does it denote 00:40:54.540 --> 00:40:58.320 this definition down here yeah why do 00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:59.940 you choose the word reflect reflexive 00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:02.220 because 00:41:02.220 --> 00:41:02.960 um 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.680 reflexivity 00:41:04.680 --> 00:41:07.740 is not reflection after the fact 00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:10.320 it's it's awareness 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:13.760 in the present moment 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.700 it's just 00:41:16.740 --> 00:41:19.560 it's just that word 00:41:19.560 --> 00:41:21.960 um versus reflection reflection is 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:22.940 always 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:26.000 retrospective I reflect on something 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.640 reflexive is when there's awareness 00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:34.920 and there's it's it's it's it's not 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.440 double Loop there's no temporal it's 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.260 kind of being holy 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.520 and fully 00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:50.599 impregnated with experience 00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:52.079 um 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.500 yeah a long time ago I read Nicholas 00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:58.859 Luman on systems social system Theory 00:41:58.859 --> 00:42:00.660 and he he made this distinction between 00:42:00.660 --> 00:42:03.540 reflexive and reflective oh yeah it's a 00:42:03.540 --> 00:42:05.579 long time ago so I I can't remember so 00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:07.260 I'm just curious I just want to have a 00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:09.780 yeah yeah I I remember it doesn't 00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:12.000 doesn't mean much to me tomorrow yeah 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.339 yeah okay so if this is in the course 00:42:14.339 --> 00:42:18.060 content uh there is a social science use 00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:20.400 of the word reflexive so they say the 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.260 market is reflexive which means 00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.060 everything that happens pings off of 00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:27.180 everything else uh I don't mean that so 00:42:27.180 --> 00:42:31.380 just if the word doesn't uh work for you 00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:34.980 just ignore it I'm just defining it 00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:37.380 um but but let's look at the difference 00:42:37.380 --> 00:42:40.079 between my I and I think this is a 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.720 correct uh definition of mind for us 00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:44.940 it's deliberately paying full attention 00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:48.599 so you're you're you're 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:52.260 it's it's quite concentrated and focused 00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:54.720 to what is happening around you and 00:42:54.720 --> 00:42:58.200 within you this is a problem because you 00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:00.900 see you're running a simulation to 00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.400 within you 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.619 is a simulation 00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:08.520 I'm looking with my mind in 00:43:08.520 --> 00:43:11.880 my body heart and Minds okay my mind is 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.060 paying attention into my body heart and 00:43:15.060 --> 00:43:17.300 mind 00:43:18.240 --> 00:43:21.200 it's a simulation versus 00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:23.400 attending to what is happening around 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.660 you with your body heart and mind 00:43:27.660 --> 00:43:30.180 it's a certain use of your body heart 00:43:30.180 --> 00:43:32.579 and mind that is attentive to what's 00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.099 around you 00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:37.200 whereas the first one on top of all that 00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:39.980 there's a mind 00:43:45.359 --> 00:43:48.780 to feel the difference between these two 00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:52.339 of course they call it mindfulness 00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:55.319 right it seems like in the first one 00:43:55.319 --> 00:43:57.240 there's um 00:43:57.240 --> 00:43:59.839 there's an in and out first of all 00:43:59.839 --> 00:44:01.680 there's a 00:44:01.680 --> 00:44:04.680 a world inside that's somehow separate 00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:06.599 from the world outside 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:09.119 different and then there's an observer 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.740 that's 00:44:10.740 --> 00:44:13.140 able to objectively look at the world 00:44:13.140 --> 00:44:16.700 inside look at the world outside 00:44:18.060 --> 00:44:20.099 so there's three things right there's 00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.140 the inside there's the outside and then 00:44:22.140 --> 00:44:25.819 the thing that can see them both 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:28.319 the supervisor 00:44:28.319 --> 00:44:30.780 whereas in the second one 00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:33.180 your body and heart and mind is 00:44:33.180 --> 00:44:35.280 attending to what is happening around 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.500 you 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:39.839 and my question was the second one is 00:44:39.839 --> 00:44:41.940 what else would attend to what's 00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:43.680 happening around you 00:44:43.680 --> 00:44:46.920 sorry what's the question again so 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:49.500 attending to what's happening around you 00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:52.079 with your body heart and mind what else 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.300 could be attending to what's happening 00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:57.560 around you like 00:45:04.859 --> 00:45:06.720 or you could say 00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:09.720 reflexive awareness is your body heart 00:45:09.720 --> 00:45:13.079 and mind attending to what is happening 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:14.339 right 00:45:14.339 --> 00:45:17.520 but I wanted to kind of more mirror the 00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:21.140 construction of her sure sure 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.400 there's no fragmentation it's it's 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:27.839 non-dual 00:45:27.839 --> 00:45:32.220 whereas mindfulness is very dualistic 00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:35.819 yeah Bonnie I find anymore and this 00:45:35.819 --> 00:45:39.240 wasn't always the case but 00:45:39.240 --> 00:45:43.319 when I get into hyper simulation 00:45:43.319 --> 00:45:45.780 and like that Hollow mirrors I 00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:49.020 experience extreme anxiety 00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:50.579 versus 00:45:50.579 --> 00:45:53.339 um yeah attending with 00:45:53.339 --> 00:45:55.740 you know my intellectual Center feeling 00:45:55.740 --> 00:45:58.319 Center and moving center 00:45:58.319 --> 00:46:00.720 um like I don't know what's real I don't 00:46:00.720 --> 00:46:02.940 know what to trust I get um almost 00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:06.300 panicky anymore 00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:08.700 you mean when you're in your polymeras 00:46:08.700 --> 00:46:12.480 yes it's infinite and there's no there's 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:16.920 no answer to it and and it's and it's 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.500 well I mean it's it's good script for 00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:20.579 like 00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:22.160 cool 00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:25.619 postmodern or meta modern movies but 00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:27.660 um it is the madness people live in we 00:46:27.660 --> 00:46:30.240 live in a simulation and there's no 00:46:30.240 --> 00:46:33.119 reality there there's no ground it's 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.880 it's inherently aggressive Ingress 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.500 because he wants to know and then it 00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:41.760 goes into Loops uh 00:46:42.060 --> 00:46:43.680 um 00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:45.119 yeah 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.839 etc etc 00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:01.220 couldn't hear you Samuel 00:47:09.140 --> 00:47:11.819 excuse me 00:47:11.819 --> 00:47:14.280 yeah uh Bonita would you say like this 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:15.359 kind of 00:47:15.359 --> 00:47:17.700 uh distinction you just made is kind of 00:47:17.700 --> 00:47:21.660 uh that blinds uh this as a blind spot 00:47:21.660 --> 00:47:23.880 um for the merging of predictive 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.280 processing like 00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.319 it seems like the top one makes more 00:47:28.319 --> 00:47:32.099 sense in predictive processing model 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.099 yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah so 00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:38.540 productive processing is is valuable 00:47:38.540 --> 00:47:43.020 because it it says as if the my the mind 00:47:43.020 --> 00:47:46.079 is as if to my you know it's it's as if 00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.119 the mind is a predictive processor and 00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.220 we can give give us some insights into 00:47:50.220 --> 00:47:52.560 it but 00:47:52.560 --> 00:47:54.240 um 00:47:54.240 --> 00:47:56.160 the second one's more like what's 00:47:56.160 --> 00:47:58.319 happening with Michael Levin you know 00:47:58.319 --> 00:48:00.780 like the genes aren't in control this is 00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:02.579 not in control this is not actually 00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:05.339 what's happening there's the cells are 00:48:05.339 --> 00:48:06.599 attentive to each other and they're 00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:08.579 communicating and they know what you 00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:12.240 know it's much more like bodies uh 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:15.839 bodies doing things like bodies and then 00:48:15.839 --> 00:48:18.900 we can abstract from that something that 00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:22.319 seems computational or whatever but it's 00:48:22.319 --> 00:48:25.560 it's it's it's it's it's it's like 00:48:25.560 --> 00:48:27.780 uh what did I say on Twitter the other 00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:31.380 day when my when I am doing math is my 00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:35.520 body doing math is my brain doing math 00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:37.140 well 00:48:37.140 --> 00:48:39.300 the computational theorists will say 00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:41.540 your brain is doing maths it's running 00:48:41.540 --> 00:48:46.260 Malaysian you know formulas uh Bayesian 00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.319 formulas and stuff and I would say no 00:48:49.319 --> 00:48:53.119 actually my my brain is doing 00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:56.520 something more like if you took pond 00:48:56.520 --> 00:48:58.680 water and you looked at things growing 00:48:58.680 --> 00:49:01.319 in the pond water and moving around 00:49:01.319 --> 00:49:05.099 actually my brain is doing 00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:09.900 something more like that than computing 00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:12.359 do you understand that so far 00:49:12.359 --> 00:49:14.400 like when you see the neurons trying to 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:16.020 make connections and they grow and then 00:49:16.020 --> 00:49:19.020 some it looks like Pond life it doesn't 00:49:19.020 --> 00:49:21.240 look like computation 00:49:21.240 --> 00:49:24.960 so when I meet Bonnie doing math it 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.420 triggers movement and activity in my 00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:29.280 brain that actually looks like more like 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.400 what life does inside ponds 00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:37.160 then what computational computers do 00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:41.760 however I can 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:44.700 create a computational model of the 00:49:44.700 --> 00:49:47.700 brain we don't understand how Pond life 00:49:47.700 --> 00:49:50.400 turns into 00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.319 something that can be modeled 00:49:52.319 --> 00:49:55.579 computationally okay so when I am doing 00:49:55.579 --> 00:49:59.819 math my brain is not doing that it's 00:49:59.819 --> 00:50:02.700 alive like a pond okay 00:50:02.700 --> 00:50:05.760 so when I am doing thinking my with 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.400 language my brain is not doing thinking 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.940 with language 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:13.339 it's moving around 00:50:13.339 --> 00:50:16.859 organic tissues and agents and glial 00:50:16.859 --> 00:50:21.540 cells and like we would see in the pond 00:50:21.540 --> 00:50:23.760 it is kind of like this video of this 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.619 girl who has no inner monologue and she 00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:28.020 was explaining how she's sinking 00:50:28.020 --> 00:50:30.300 I don't know I'm like I was this is like 00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:32.099 all the time of my mind in a way yeah 00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:34.260 yeah and trying to like play with this 00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:36.839 what what is this and and how this feels 00:50:36.839 --> 00:50:38.579 like and 00:50:38.579 --> 00:50:42.000 yeah I think I yeah kind of get in this 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.520 direction right so predictive processing 00:50:44.520 --> 00:50:46.980 is a nice model it's as if this is 00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:49.500 what's happening but really what's 00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:52.740 happening it looks like Pond life and 00:50:52.740 --> 00:50:57.420 this is a wonderful mystery of 00:50:57.420 --> 00:50:59.819 of 00:50:59.819 --> 00:51:02.700 we'll talk about it I mean we just sent 00:51:02.700 --> 00:51:04.200 the granting to try to get to write 00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:09.020 about it but it's like it's like 00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:13.079 here's another as if okay as if model 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:15.960 it's as if the protocols at one level 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.339 which is me doing math 00:51:20.160 --> 00:51:23.460 triggers procedures at another level so 00:51:23.460 --> 00:51:26.520 the cells moving around and the 00:51:26.520 --> 00:51:30.240 molecules and stuff are just procedures 00:51:30.240 --> 00:51:32.880 so what is that interface where 00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:34.619 protocols at one level turn into 00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:36.480 procedures 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.700 at another level 00:51:38.700 --> 00:51:42.980 um is is an interesting question but but 00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:46.819 it's a great question so yes so 00:51:46.819 --> 00:51:50.160 predictive processing is more like the 00:51:50.160 --> 00:51:51.839 mental model of the first one that 00:51:51.839 --> 00:51:56.099 something is pain is paying attention 00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:59.280 to the outside world making predictions 00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.400 on the inside and kind of uh 00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.940 adjudicating to the two uh was the one 00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:09.000 on the bottom is more like 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:10.619 pond 00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:13.260 Pond life what's happening in your brain 00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:16.079 a pond life I mean that's why your brain 00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:19.079 is so watery because because the things 00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:22.740 move around like organisms in a ponds 00:52:22.740 --> 00:52:25.559 now this is not rocket science ever even 00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:27.599 people who say predictive processing 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.760 will know will admit that if you looked 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:32.119 at the brain perceptual depth versus 00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:35.579 simulation model uh it looks like Pond 00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:37.880 life 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.140 they don't want to talk too much about 00:52:40.140 --> 00:52:42.059 it but 00:52:42.059 --> 00:52:46.339 it's not a it's not an unusual answer 00:52:52.740 --> 00:52:54.660 yeah like I remember when you're seeing 00:52:54.660 --> 00:52:57.960 when it was always the nerves and it 00:52:57.960 --> 00:52:59.700 takes time the nurse to reach the brain 00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:02.400 and then there's this Gap is 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:04.260 you would you could say it is a gap you 00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:06.059 you don't experience immediately what's 00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:07.680 actually happening 00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:09.420 but then you kind of said like this kind 00:53:09.420 --> 00:53:11.880 of distance or like this supposed 00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.140 distance 00:53:13.140 --> 00:53:15.960 it's like the Continuum is missing then 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:19.260 like that's that's like um 00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:20.940 I don't know you said something that 00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:23.460 well the nerve is the eye and and we 00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:24.900 just perceive this 00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:27.960 indirect word and then we're saying 00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:30.480 no that's um 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:36.059 yeah so yes so when you go to sleep your 00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:38.520 Consciousness is in in you if you sleep 00:53:38.520 --> 00:53:40.920 deeply your Consciousness is 00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:43.680 discontinuous between then and when you 00:53:43.680 --> 00:53:46.280 wake up right 00:53:48.540 --> 00:53:51.660 your your conscious awareness right but 00:53:51.660 --> 00:53:54.420 something still is conscious it's it's 00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:55.859 not like 00:53:55.859 --> 00:53:59.040 you in what is still conscious what is 00:53:59.040 --> 00:54:01.500 still working when you're sleeping is 00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:02.940 your body 00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:05.040 then we try to make a big mystery of it 00:54:05.040 --> 00:54:07.559 like how is it that there's continuity 00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:10.260 how can how can you know this guy forgot 00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:11.400 his name 00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:13.859 he can go into 00:54:13.859 --> 00:54:16.380 Nirvana or whatever it's called you can 00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:18.240 go into like hibernation for seven days 00:54:18.240 --> 00:54:20.760 and he can or they can tell 90 minutes 00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:23.339 and something keeps time it's not a 00:54:23.339 --> 00:54:25.859 mystery the body keeps time we we know 00:54:25.859 --> 00:54:27.599 this it has circadian rhythms it's got 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:29.400 all kinds of oscillations that keep time 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:32.339 for different cells different hormones 00:54:32.339 --> 00:54:36.119 this and that so but but the Traditions 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:37.920 don't want to say that like there must 00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.839 be some Storehouse Consciousness that 00:54:39.839 --> 00:54:42.599 keeps time or something and and comes in 00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:44.400 and out of existence when it's so clear 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:47.099 it's like the body's the thing that that 00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:50.819 remains active while the Mind dips in 00:54:50.819 --> 00:54:51.780 and out 00:54:51.780 --> 00:54:55.319 it's not rocket science 00:54:55.319 --> 00:54:58.339 it's a mystery about how these things 00:54:58.339 --> 00:55:02.460 how Pond life turns into all of this 00:55:02.460 --> 00:55:05.220 brains and virtual reality and 00:55:05.220 --> 00:55:07.619 philosophy 00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:08.900 um 00:55:08.900 --> 00:55:13.880 baton's life turned into humans too 00:55:16.020 --> 00:55:18.839 and this is something I think 00:55:18.839 --> 00:55:22.260 should be the preoccupation of the 21st 00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:25.819 and 22nd century 00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:28.339 the extraordinary 00:55:28.339 --> 00:55:32.220 intelligence of the natural world is 00:55:32.220 --> 00:55:35.839 what we're dealing with here 00:55:41.819 --> 00:55:44.579 and it goes on and on I mean like we're 00:55:44.579 --> 00:55:46.920 talking about pure abstractions and the 00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:50.780 honeybees dance is a pure abstraction 00:55:50.780 --> 00:55:54.540 and the Rats can simulate hypothetical 00:55:54.540 --> 00:55:57.500 environments all this stuff is very deep 00:55:57.500 --> 00:56:00.599 deep in 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.540 the levels let's say the ontological 00:56:03.540 --> 00:56:06.660 levels of reality 00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:08.660 um 00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:13.200 they just don't pop into existence at a 00:56:13.200 --> 00:56:16.640 level of emergence 00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:32.040 Bonnie there's something about 00:56:32.040 --> 00:56:34.440 prepositions 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:36.900 that 00:56:36.900 --> 00:56:42.020 so aware of attending to 00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:44.240 that 00:56:44.240 --> 00:56:49.040 sets up that toggle for me 00:56:49.140 --> 00:56:50.760 and 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:53.720 if I 00:56:53.819 --> 00:56:59.839 if I use as awareness as pain as 00:56:59.839 --> 00:57:03.119 seeing uh you know there's some there's 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:07.339 some language thing that happens 00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:10.619 with the idea of 00:57:10.619 --> 00:57:14.579 what am I aware of like it's over there 00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:18.200 and then I have to come back 00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:25.460 if it's as breath or as 00:57:25.460 --> 00:57:28.800 that feels much more connected in the 00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:30.300 body 00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:32.460 for me 00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.619 yeah so the first question has that 00:57:34.619 --> 00:57:37.859 problem when I'm aware of when I'm aware 00:57:37.859 --> 00:57:42.000 so you're looking for a third thing 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.240 um and and it's in 00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:48.000 my right 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:51.240 of and in you're aware 00:57:51.240 --> 00:57:53.520 of the body as awareness or something 00:57:53.520 --> 00:57:56.339 it's so this also brings us to something 00:57:56.339 --> 00:57:59.339 else you know all all instructions all 00:57:59.339 --> 00:58:01.800 guided meditation pre 00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:04.140 position you for certain insights and 00:58:04.140 --> 00:58:05.220 not others 00:58:05.220 --> 00:58:07.520 and and 00:58:07.520 --> 00:58:10.140 what is useful let's say about this 00:58:10.140 --> 00:58:12.960 module is that that you 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:14.940 agree with me 00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:18.059 but that one day you will have an 00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:20.579 experience and you'll say ah it gives 00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:23.420 you permission 00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:29.819 to consider this option 00:58:29.819 --> 00:58:32.119 um and and 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:35.640 not canalize all your experience through 00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:38.339 another option because it really is you 00:58:38.339 --> 00:58:41.839 know it's not something that 00:58:42.660 --> 00:58:44.819 it affords you 00:58:44.819 --> 00:58:47.760 the potential Insight 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:49.740 um 00:58:49.740 --> 00:58:51.960 but it's not really worth 00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:56.400 anything as just kind of you know 00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:58.799 a teaching 00:58:58.799 --> 00:59:01.859 um it's it's it's it's an it's a open 00:59:01.859 --> 00:59:05.160 it's an open proposition 00:59:05.160 --> 00:59:08.160 that this might be the case 00:59:08.160 --> 00:59:10.799 um which I happen to claim and believe 00:59:10.799 --> 00:59:17.000 and not not suspect I'm not suspect 00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:21.720 what and then what happens is 00:59:21.720 --> 00:59:26.040 we're what we're looking for is 00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:28.700 a relate what is the relationship 00:59:28.700 --> 00:59:30.900 between these 00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:32.700 so 00:59:32.700 --> 00:59:34.619 um 00:59:34.619 --> 00:59:37.559 in in a sense like Ian mcgilchrist says 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:41.220 well the right brain is not just a pose 00:59:41.220 --> 00:59:43.680 upon opponent processing to the left 00:59:43.680 --> 00:59:46.099 brain 00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:50.880 but the right brain includes it has its 00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.579 own thing and it can see and include and 00:59:53.579 --> 00:59:55.380 envelop the left brain it can 00:59:55.380 --> 00:59:58.260 contextualize the left brain and what 00:59:58.260 --> 01:00:01.819 I'm saying is that 01:00:01.859 --> 01:00:04.619 the body and mind aren't like this but 01:00:04.619 --> 01:00:05.880 the body 01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.460 can see the mind 01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:13.220 and includes and envelops it 01:00:14.579 --> 01:00:16.380 versus 01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:21.420 either this or this one's above or you 01:00:21.420 --> 01:00:23.640 know they're just equal and opposite or 01:00:23.640 --> 01:00:25.619 ones above the other 01:00:25.619 --> 01:00:28.040 CIS 01:00:28.040 --> 01:00:34.040 relation of uh in envelopment 01:00:34.140 --> 01:00:37.020 that I would claim it it's it's more 01:00:37.020 --> 01:00:39.059 like that 01:00:39.059 --> 01:00:41.119 um 01:00:47.099 --> 01:00:49.680 and you have to you know the whole thing 01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:53.640 is hard to swallow in pieces as I'm 01:00:53.640 --> 01:00:56.160 teaching in pieces 01:00:56.160 --> 01:01:00.420 um because you have to in order to buy 01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:02.520 into this 01:01:02.520 --> 01:01:04.520 um 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.859 what is helpful is if you understand 01:01:07.859 --> 01:01:10.859 virtual perception 01:01:10.859 --> 01:01:14.460 as the evolution of our sensory motor 01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:17.099 perception right so 01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:19.799 a sensory motor perception 01:01:19.799 --> 01:01:22.380 has uh 01:01:22.380 --> 01:01:23.940 um two parts 01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:26.520 it has an egocentric and an allocentric 01:01:26.520 --> 01:01:28.740 subsystem 01:01:28.740 --> 01:01:32.220 and when these when the virtual 01:01:32.220 --> 01:01:34.440 perceptions become when the when the 01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:36.000 sensory motor perceptions become 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.619 virtualized as they do in animals 01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:42.540 so animals can simulate their 01:01:42.540 --> 01:01:45.359 environment to figure out how to solve a 01:01:45.359 --> 01:01:47.760 puzzle in the environment 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:49.440 um 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.460 then it gets virtualized in these two 01:01:52.460 --> 01:01:57.059 subsystems the the subsystem 01:01:57.299 --> 01:02:00.720 structure is also virtualized 01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:03.540 the egocentric virtual 01:02:03.540 --> 01:02:06.960 patterns that are perceptions that are 01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:09.240 patterns in your mind 01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:10.260 um 01:02:10.260 --> 01:02:14.760 run through the same systems that your 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:18.299 egocentric sensory X you just regular 01:02:18.299 --> 01:02:22.140 perceptual Pro but they're microactions 01:02:22.140 --> 01:02:24.599 right so your eyes go a little like this 01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:27.059 and your mouth goes a little like this 01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:31.559 and and you can actually see micro 01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:34.260 actions in Virtual perceptions 01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:37.680 and the subsystem that becomes your 01:02:37.680 --> 01:02:40.799 egocentric sensory motor subsystem that 01:02:40.799 --> 01:02:43.020 becomes virtualized is your psyche so it 01:02:43.020 --> 01:02:46.740 evaluates experience relative to you 01:02:46.740 --> 01:02:50.760 good bad is always reference to me 01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:53.640 and your allocentric is what we call 01:02:53.640 --> 01:02:56.579 your mind because it simulates things in 01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:58.559 the environment like Maps 01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:00.480 so you have this egocentric and you have 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:03.420 this allocentric thing Okay the reason 01:03:03.420 --> 01:03:06.240 why I'm telling you this is because 01:03:06.240 --> 01:03:08.640 this if you understand that then you 01:03:08.640 --> 01:03:10.440 understand where the body envelops the 01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:12.680 mind 01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:15.720 because these sensory motor aspects of 01:03:15.720 --> 01:03:18.720 your body become virtualized as a little 01:03:18.720 --> 01:03:22.140 sub microactions 01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:24.260 um 01:03:24.359 --> 01:03:26.940 and that's what we call psychian Minds 01:03:26.940 --> 01:03:29.819 so the more you understand all the 01:03:29.819 --> 01:03:31.500 aspects of 01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:33.359 what we've been going through the more 01:03:33.359 --> 01:03:36.180 you understand that 01:03:36.180 --> 01:03:38.760 why the body envelops the mind and that 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.079 the mind envelops the body 01:03:42.299 --> 01:03:45.599 now I can convince you the mind envelops 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:49.079 the body I'll do Alan B Allen Wallace 01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:51.920 he'll say 01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:54.900 but to even ask that question 01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:57.780 you have to use your mind 01:03:57.780 --> 01:04:00.180 and when he says that to me I notice I'm 01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:02.880 in a simulation with him 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:06.260 and that's how I get them 01:04:14.339 --> 01:04:16.260 can you say more 01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:19.380 because he says even to ask you that 01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:21.359 question you have to be in your mind now 01:04:21.359 --> 01:04:23.280 I have a little mental model of of 01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:26.339 course a test it's just everything that 01:04:26.339 --> 01:04:29.099 is now active in me is just in my mind 01:04:29.099 --> 01:04:32.400 is a mental simulation 01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.099 what it comes first the mind come has to 01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:37.500 come first because to us so thou is just 01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:39.359 running a mental simulation of what's 01:04:39.359 --> 01:04:43.940 first and and it's outside of experience 01:04:45.299 --> 01:04:47.940 and then he's got you 01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:52.040 because you're entering his simulation 01:04:53.160 --> 01:04:55.920 now if he when he argues with Penrose 01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:58.140 Penrose says well you know the the big 01:04:58.140 --> 01:05:01.079 bang was first and Alan Watts will say 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:03.839 no in order to say that Consciousness 01:05:03.839 --> 01:05:05.339 has to be first 01:05:05.339 --> 01:05:07.859 well the Big Bang is a is a mental 01:05:07.859 --> 01:05:10.140 simulation too so 01:05:10.140 --> 01:05:11.640 uh 01:05:11.640 --> 01:05:13.079 you could you have to start with 01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:14.520 something like okay I'm sitting here and 01:05:14.520 --> 01:05:17.180 you're sitting here 01:05:21.240 --> 01:05:24.359 what do you notice oh I and like we 01:05:24.359 --> 01:05:28.220 started oh I can feel that that's a 01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.099 we can enter we can enter a mental 01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.780 simulation called The Big Bang in 01:05:33.780 --> 01:05:35.160 physics and all that it's very 01:05:35.160 --> 01:05:37.380 profitable it's fun and it's interesting 01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:39.180 we can enter a mental simulation about 01:05:39.180 --> 01:05:41.960 consciousness 01:05:42.180 --> 01:05:44.299 um 01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:49.920 but if you need to feel that you're in a 01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:52.260 mental simulation 01:05:52.260 --> 01:05:54.599 that you're ex you that you're 01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:56.940 experiencing being in a mental 01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:58.319 simulation 01:05:58.319 --> 01:06:01.680 or else you'd be like after you 01:06:01.680 --> 01:06:03.240 've told each other where you're going 01:06:03.240 --> 01:06:04.980 to put the plumbings you'd go and 01:06:04.980 --> 01:06:07.559 in the toilet and you'd think it was all 01:06:07.559 --> 01:06:10.079 already 01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:13.079 done 01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:24.920 it doesn't work that way 01:07:02.579 --> 01:07:05.640 I wanted to ask it is going into a 01:07:05.640 --> 01:07:08.520 simulation that contagious 01:07:08.520 --> 01:07:11.099 that if if somebody starts at 01:07:11.099 --> 01:07:13.020 communicating in a certain way to meet 01:07:13.020 --> 01:07:15.420 in that Loop I'm gone 01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:18.720 yeah it's contagious and like just 01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:21.900 energetically when when like Magdalena 01:07:21.900 --> 01:07:24.960 starts talking it's like contagious I I 01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:27.420 meet I meet her where she's coming you 01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:29.760 know like so 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:32.160 and so we and then you can get into Mass 01:07:32.160 --> 01:07:33.900 hallucination and all this stuff but 01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:36.599 just energetically like 01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:38.940 um uh that's why we like to watch our 01:07:38.940 --> 01:07:41.220 pets running then we feel like 01:07:41.220 --> 01:07:44.220 we feel like we're alive in our body so 01:07:44.220 --> 01:07:47.940 we tend to track each other like what 01:07:47.940 --> 01:07:52.260 energy is is is being emitted uh so yeah 01:07:52.260 --> 01:07:55.500 I would say yes it's contagious 01:07:55.500 --> 01:07:58.460 um and 01:07:58.799 --> 01:08:00.660 up to a certain point you know some 01:08:00.660 --> 01:08:01.980 people 01:08:01.980 --> 01:08:04.319 um if they're like real Galaxy brains 01:08:04.319 --> 01:08:05.700 and 01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:08.160 people might get excited and then like 01:08:08.160 --> 01:08:10.319 they can't then they're allergic to it 01:08:10.319 --> 01:08:12.000 and they can't keep up and then the 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.339 opposite things happen you lose them and 01:08:14.339 --> 01:08:16.080 uh 01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:18.620 um but in in General within the 01:08:18.620 --> 01:08:21.299 capacities that people share it's it's 01:08:21.299 --> 01:08:23.160 contagious 01:08:23.160 --> 01:08:25.759 foreign 01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:29.040 how do you feel about the word 01:08:29.040 --> 01:08:31.560 dissociation here if I go off in 01:08:31.560 --> 01:08:33.420 stimulation it 01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:36.620 would direct dissertation apply or 01:08:36.620 --> 01:08:39.960 so this isn't it no running a simulation 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:43.020 is not dissociation 01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:44.819 um and even 01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:47.040 um especially if you know you're running 01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:49.980 a simulation okay so for example I know 01:08:49.980 --> 01:08:51.900 we're running a simulation here you're 01:08:51.900 --> 01:08:53.460 not sitting you're not a tiny little 01:08:53.460 --> 01:08:56.699 half person on my desk but whatever 01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:57.900 um 01:08:57.900 --> 01:08:59.160 um 01:08:59.160 --> 01:09:02.219 um so so 01:09:02.219 --> 01:09:04.440 but 01:09:04.440 --> 01:09:05.880 um 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:08.960 you can 01:09:09.299 --> 01:09:12.480 so what we mean by dissociation means 01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:15.259 something in your experience becomes 01:09:15.259 --> 01:09:17.940 disassociated from your experience 01:09:17.940 --> 01:09:22.799 so you we could be in metaphysical 01:09:22.799 --> 01:09:25.380 like I've had this happen like me and 01:09:25.380 --> 01:09:27.120 Tom Murray will go on these long drives 01:09:27.120 --> 01:09:28.500 and we get into these metaphysical 01:09:28.500 --> 01:09:30.299 discussions like I did this the other 01:09:30.299 --> 01:09:31.259 day 01:09:31.259 --> 01:09:35.040 and I'm on Route 91 going north instead 01:09:35.040 --> 01:09:37.080 of South because I'm pretty much 01:09:37.080 --> 01:09:39.600 dissociated from the meaning making and 01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:41.640 then I see this big sign welcome to 01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:44.940 Canada and I swam on the brakes right so 01:09:44.940 --> 01:09:47.400 so disassociating means that certain 01:09:47.400 --> 01:09:49.679 aspects of your experience are are no 01:09:49.679 --> 01:09:51.600 longer associated with your experience 01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:54.420 you know like in this case that this was 01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.739 funny but 01:09:55.739 --> 01:09:59.100 when people go into disassociation like 01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:01.140 that that term 01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:03.120 um like one time I was in this we space 01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:06.360 practice it was very intense and I just 01:10:06.360 --> 01:10:09.300 I want my meaning making system was 01:10:09.300 --> 01:10:11.640 exhausted and I was in this state where 01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:13.800 I could see people's mouths move and 01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:16.320 hear them talk but I had no idea 01:10:16.320 --> 01:10:19.500 as like aphasic I had no idea what the 01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.219 words meant so the meaning of words was 01:10:22.219 --> 01:10:25.860 disassociated from my experience 01:10:25.860 --> 01:10:27.420 um and that would be what I just 01:10:27.420 --> 01:10:29.460 described the classic case of what we 01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:31.500 call disassociation 01:10:31.500 --> 01:10:34.920 now this is a feature not a buck because 01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.580 people with PTSD there's too much 01:10:38.580 --> 01:10:41.400 Association in their experience you know 01:10:41.400 --> 01:10:43.920 their their noise becomes associated 01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:45.719 with so 01:10:45.719 --> 01:10:50.520 I try to broaden uh this this this term 01:10:50.520 --> 01:10:54.179 um to make it more precise 01:10:54.179 --> 01:10:56.699 um but yeah when you running simulations 01:10:56.699 --> 01:10:59.699 and like this joke I just this thing 01:10:59.699 --> 01:11:01.800 that happened with me and Tom 01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:04.080 um you can 01:11:04.080 --> 01:11:06.480 certain things that are normally online 01:11:06.480 --> 01:11:09.420 and your experience can become take it 01:11:09.420 --> 01:11:12.179 removed from experience 01:11:12.179 --> 01:11:14.719 um yeah 01:11:16.440 --> 01:11:18.719 a lot of times in these spaces you know 01:11:18.719 --> 01:11:20.040 like 01:11:20.040 --> 01:11:23.280 um uh in in ecstatic 01:11:23.280 --> 01:11:26.040 States ecstatic dancing and stuff like 01:11:26.040 --> 01:11:28.440 that which is not a simulation 01:11:28.440 --> 01:11:31.739 um you you what gets disassociated is 01:11:31.739 --> 01:11:34.679 shame and then afterwards after you do 01:11:34.679 --> 01:11:37.199 something crazy this the your experience 01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:39.300 comes back and then you're like it's 01:11:39.300 --> 01:11:41.580 very hard to like be proud that you did 01:11:41.580 --> 01:11:43.800 that I mean everybody's looking at 01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:45.420 everybody else you know this kind of 01:11:45.420 --> 01:11:46.739 thing 01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:50.060 um so yeah 01:12:03.780 --> 01:12:06.780 okay I'm fine with 01:12:06.780 --> 01:12:10.260 um you know recap don't 01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:11.940 um 01:12:11.940 --> 01:12:15.060 being relegated there but there's 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:17.699 there's there's a part of me that was 01:12:17.699 --> 01:12:19.679 this thing 01:12:19.679 --> 01:12:22.880 um something about this distillation 01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:26.040 because of the illusion of separability 01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:29.940 I mean that anything is separable from 01:12:29.940 --> 01:12:33.500 anything else really 01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:38.520 and that's to me it's it's when you say 01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:42.440 your body is the ground 01:12:42.659 --> 01:12:45.380 how can 01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:49.800 you you cut off you can't we can't hear 01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.739 you you must have hit something to mute 01:12:52.739 --> 01:12:53.420 yourself 01:12:53.420 --> 01:12:57.960 the body is right yeah if the body is 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.540 the ground of everything which I totally 01:13:00.540 --> 01:13:02.280 went with you right there right there 01:13:02.280 --> 01:13:04.560 right there rounds of awareness 01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:07.260 ground of awareness yes my body doesn't 01:13:07.260 --> 01:13:09.000 happen to be the ground 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:11.040 no no no the ground of aware of 01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:13.199 everything we call awareness because 01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:16.159 even the word awareness is like 01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:18.120 you know 01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:22.020 um it's not a thing you know it's it's 01:13:22.020 --> 01:13:27.000 you know this is why I I I I I go I go I 01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.820 go I go and then I get to this moment of 01:13:29.820 --> 01:13:32.120 like 01:13:32.120 --> 01:13:33.659 yes 01:13:33.659 --> 01:13:36.960 and then and then where did when we 01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:40.620 start kind of like talking about it it 01:13:40.620 --> 01:13:44.699 starts to separate again you know as if 01:13:44.699 --> 01:13:50.100 the ground the body is ground like how 01:13:50.100 --> 01:13:52.560 could it be anything else 01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:55.980 I mean what else do I have access to 01:13:55.980 --> 01:13:59.280 um unless you know I'm I'm Dawkins and 01:13:59.280 --> 01:14:02.280 I'm connected to all kinds of PODS you 01:14:02.280 --> 01:14:04.280 know I mean it 01:14:04.280 --> 01:14:07.260 which is an interesting question what's 01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:09.360 the 01:14:09.360 --> 01:14:11.760 um some traditions that say your body 01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:15.500 arises in your awareness 01:14:15.659 --> 01:14:19.820 so in a sense it's it's it's 01:14:19.820 --> 01:14:21.600 a 01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:25.739 condition of your mind and and there is 01:14:25.739 --> 01:14:28.860 some truth to that in the sense that you 01:14:28.860 --> 01:14:31.620 know people who have body dysmorphia or 01:14:31.620 --> 01:14:33.260 their their anorexic 01:14:33.260 --> 01:14:34.739 [Music] 01:14:34.739 --> 01:14:40.500 they their bodies are distorted by their 01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:43.280 their 01:14:43.340 --> 01:14:47.300 perception of their bodies 01:14:48.120 --> 01:14:50.760 so it gets very confusing that's I'm 01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:53.100 just saying some people I'm just saying 01:14:53.100 --> 01:14:55.320 there's a lot of people who would not 01:14:55.320 --> 01:14:58.020 say that the body is 01:14:58.020 --> 01:15:01.080 The Source or grounds of awareness 01:15:01.080 --> 01:15:04.080 that there is this superordinate 01:15:04.080 --> 01:15:06.360 thing of the universe called awareness 01:15:06.360 --> 01:15:08.940 and your body arises in it like 01:15:08.940 --> 01:15:11.600 everything else 01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:17.760 but in general 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:21.179 taking the spiritual bent out of it most 01:15:21.179 --> 01:15:24.900 westerners do not believe that the body 01:15:24.900 --> 01:15:28.739 is prior and envelops the mind 01:15:28.739 --> 01:15:31.260 for example you it would be impossible 01:15:31.260 --> 01:15:35.480 to have body dysmorphia 01:15:36.179 --> 01:15:38.640 believed the body was prior to the 01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:42.199 social construction of gender 01:15:43.020 --> 01:15:46.320 the whole world has got it reversed 01:15:46.320 --> 01:15:48.600 even if they would say oh of course the 01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:50.100 bodies 01:15:50.100 --> 01:15:54.480 primary but then you can say well I'm in 01:15:54.480 --> 01:15:56.580 the wrong body well this is a social 01:15:56.580 --> 01:15:58.260 construction 01:15:58.260 --> 01:16:01.260 you know the the kids like to say well 01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:04.460 gender is socially constructed but so is 01:16:04.460 --> 01:16:07.980 lgbtq trans those are all socially 01:16:07.980 --> 01:16:10.880 constructed too 01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.800 and to get caught up in that is like 01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:16.440 what Katie said is you're just like like 01:16:16.440 --> 01:16:18.960 you can't see anything but socially 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:22.500 constructed and I'm saying that is 01:16:22.500 --> 01:16:26.699 operating as if the body's in the mind 01:16:26.699 --> 01:16:30.000 that that the Mind includes and envelops 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.159 everything else this is maybe not a 01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.080 claim people would make but this is what 01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:36.239 most people actually fundamentally 01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:39.060 believe 01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:42.540 but that's how we've been conditioned I 01:16:42.540 --> 01:16:45.239 mean again I I know I'm falling into the 01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:48.780 tautology of conditioning but I mean I 01:16:48.780 --> 01:16:50.699 just found out I know that's why I have 01:16:50.699 --> 01:16:52.860 to spend hours trying to teach people 01:16:52.860 --> 01:16:55.739 that it's ass backwards 01:16:55.739 --> 01:16:59.219 yeah and and and I don't get invited to 01:16:59.219 --> 01:17:01.620 parties because the parties people get 01:17:01.620 --> 01:17:03.540 invited to are telling them something 01:17:03.540 --> 01:17:06.239 like con you know your body arises and 01:17:06.239 --> 01:17:08.880 the world arises inside of consciousness 01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:11.460 and the problem with that is that it 01:17:11.460 --> 01:17:14.100 would be a cool idea except I believe 01:17:14.100 --> 01:17:16.679 that's why we're destroying the Earth 01:17:16.679 --> 01:17:19.739 because we think that things like bodies 01:17:19.739 --> 01:17:23.100 and organisms and tissues and fabric 01:17:23.100 --> 01:17:27.120 is somehow lesser than the ideas we have 01:17:27.120 --> 01:17:28.440 about them 01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:31.699 that's the problem 01:17:32.580 --> 01:17:35.159 we like to use the metaphor you know 01:17:35.159 --> 01:17:37.140 when I was at Maple you know they used a 01:17:37.140 --> 01:17:39.600 metaphor of you know they took a flower 01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:42.480 and used a metaphor about it oh the 01:17:42.480 --> 01:17:44.280 beautiful flower and then they want they 01:17:44.280 --> 01:17:46.320 weren't cut you know mold down all the 01:17:46.320 --> 01:17:48.840 flowers because they didn't want ticks 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:51.420 I'm like why is the metaphor of a flower 01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:53.699 more appealing than the actual flowers 01:17:53.699 --> 01:17:57.000 and well it doesn't make any sense 01:17:57.000 --> 01:17:59.580 we get all hyped on metaphors 01:17:59.580 --> 01:18:02.460 and the beauty of the metaphors it comes 01:18:02.460 --> 01:18:04.140 with like we actually really understand 01:18:04.140 --> 01:18:07.560 how cool seeds and flowers are in their 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.020 generative nature but then we just live 01:18:10.020 --> 01:18:11.239 with 01:18:11.239 --> 01:18:16.100 were satisfied living with the metaphor 01:18:17.100 --> 01:18:21.179 it's it's it's ridiculous 01:18:21.420 --> 01:18:23.659 yeah but that has to do with Harmony 01:18:23.659 --> 01:18:27.239 homogenization you know it's it's like 01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:32.420 because each each body and each com 01:18:32.420 --> 01:18:35.699 constellation of everything that the 01:18:35.699 --> 01:18:40.460 pond life brain is is is so absolutely 01:18:40.460 --> 01:18:43.980 unique and singular and it's come in 01:18:43.980 --> 01:18:47.100 it's combination that it would not have 01:18:47.100 --> 01:18:51.179 easily submitted to some kind of 01:18:51.179 --> 01:18:56.600 you know industrialized process at all 01:18:57.540 --> 01:19:00.480 so I mean the conditioning I think has 01:19:00.480 --> 01:19:03.179 to be brought I mean it's like my son he 01:19:03.179 --> 01:19:05.460 walked into my room one day five years 01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:09.780 old he goes mom you know what's not fair 01:19:09.780 --> 01:19:13.440 you said uh do you know tell me he said 01:19:13.440 --> 01:19:18.260 that someone invented the word Fair 01:19:19.020 --> 01:19:22.020 foreign 01:19:22.980 --> 01:19:26.340 I mean we've made up words that we use 01:19:26.340 --> 01:19:29.640 in this thing that we found that we make 01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:32.219 with our throat that 01:19:32.219 --> 01:19:36.239 um are tonological I mean you know they 01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:39.060 but this is an easy answer to that you 01:19:39.060 --> 01:19:41.340 could show him the the experiment where 01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:44.900 the chimps wouldn't take the the 01:19:44.900 --> 01:19:47.460 Cucumber as a reward when their friends 01:19:47.460 --> 01:19:50.040 were getting grapes and vice versa this 01:19:50.040 --> 01:19:51.780 is it's not a word 01:19:51.780 --> 01:19:55.260 it's Entourage it's what what they call 01:19:55.260 --> 01:19:57.620 anthro ontologically 01:19:57.620 --> 01:20:02.280 grounded in our animal nature oh so 01:20:02.280 --> 01:20:05.699 what's unfair is the way they use the 01:20:05.699 --> 01:20:08.640 word to distort what's fair or not fair 01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:11.280 but let's look at where the word comes 01:20:11.280 --> 01:20:14.580 from it comes from our animal nature 01:20:14.580 --> 01:20:18.060 oh and look at the flowers do we see 01:20:18.060 --> 01:20:21.420 fairness in ecology that's the answer to 01:20:21.420 --> 01:20:24.239 it not to get all like post-modern 01:20:24.239 --> 01:20:26.940 linguistically like contortionist about 01:20:26.940 --> 01:20:28.920 it 01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:33.060 um this is this is again he's five years 01:20:33.060 --> 01:20:36.239 old they you know the the the abstract 01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:40.380 mind is coming on faster and faster 01:20:40.380 --> 01:20:42.360 um because we live under conditions 01:20:42.360 --> 01:20:45.000 where things don't matter you don't have 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:46.260 to go 01:20:46.260 --> 01:20:48.960 you know grow your food in this and that 01:20:48.960 --> 01:20:50.960 there's no single Loop 01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:53.159 experiences that children have anymore 01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:55.260 so that's that's something else to think 01:20:55.260 --> 01:20:56.760 about 01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:58.500 but 01:20:58.500 --> 01:20:59.760 um 01:20:59.760 --> 01:21:02.760 I'm not trying to find the cause I'm 01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:04.020 trying to 01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:06.120 reverse 01:21:06.120 --> 01:21:09.420 the process in in people I mean 01:21:09.420 --> 01:21:11.400 ultimately why does it matter I mean I 01:21:11.400 --> 01:21:12.719 think we're going to destroy just about 01:21:12.719 --> 01:21:16.520 everything anyways until 01:21:16.520 --> 01:21:19.560 nature practically destroys us or 01:21:19.560 --> 01:21:25.020 destroys us and then then life will get 01:21:25.020 --> 01:21:27.420 on in a different way I don't think 01:21:27.420 --> 01:21:30.300 we're gonna change really 01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:32.360 um 01:21:32.699 --> 01:21:35.880 but for people who are here and happen 01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:39.000 to be alive uh 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:41.820 if you can change 01:21:41.820 --> 01:21:44.540 your orientation to life 01:21:44.540 --> 01:21:47.580 you will not only know you've been 01:21:47.580 --> 01:21:51.600 robbed of the joy of life but you'll be 01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:55.699 able to experience it again 01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:04.620 and I would definitely invite you to my 01:22:04.620 --> 01:22:05.440 parties 01:22:05.440 --> 01:22:08.640 [Laughter] 01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:11.040 invite it 01:22:11.040 --> 01:22:12.300 flat out 01:22:12.300 --> 01:22:17.420 Algarve south of Portugal this comes 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:35.699 I should write a a series called Pond 01:22:35.699 --> 01:22:38.000 life 01:22:43.980 --> 01:22:46.860 I'm curious about why 01:22:46.860 --> 01:22:50.900 awareness gets separated from 01:22:50.900 --> 01:22:53.880 Aaron something is not working on your 01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:54.960 your 01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:57.920 microphone 01:23:02.699 --> 01:23:05.699 you're muted now you're unmuted but you 01:23:05.699 --> 01:23:06.840 have to like 01:23:06.840 --> 01:23:10.760 it's very very very quiet 01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.420 you know when you you can contact 01:23:54.420 --> 01:23:58.739 thumbnail into pond life like this is 01:23:58.739 --> 01:24:01.020 why you know 01:24:01.020 --> 01:24:05.159 certain narcotics and psychedelics 01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:08.940 work because it's like you know like 01:24:08.940 --> 01:24:10.739 you're adding too much nitrogen to the 01:24:10.739 --> 01:24:13.020 pond or something I mean like you're 01:24:13.020 --> 01:24:14.280 basically 01:24:14.280 --> 01:24:16.980 changing the water in the pond and then 01:24:16.980 --> 01:24:19.620 the activity changes you know like you 01:24:19.620 --> 01:24:22.159 could think of 01:24:28.260 --> 01:24:31.500 like if you throw if you throw corn into 01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:33.659 the pond then all the like fish go like 01:24:33.659 --> 01:24:37.699 this you know you're always 01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:42.000 these things trigger like different 01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:44.460 life 01:24:44.460 --> 01:24:47.100 procedures in your pond the pond of your 01:24:47.100 --> 01:24:49.340 mind 01:24:53.400 --> 01:24:55.440 and we use that term polluted you know 01:24:55.440 --> 01:24:58.940 he got polluted last night 01:24:59.940 --> 01:25:03.380 Pond is polluted 01:25:10.260 --> 01:25:12.420 I'm stuck on something and if it's not 01:25:12.420 --> 01:25:14.400 helpful just cut me off or if I'm just 01:25:14.400 --> 01:25:16.199 showing that I don't get it then instead 01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:18.239 but you said 01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:22.040 um veronic simulation here now 01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:25.679 um so so where is my body for example I 01:25:25.679 --> 01:25:27.840 can ask where is Bonnie that that's over 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:30.020 there 01:25:30.300 --> 01:25:32.360 um 01:25:34.380 --> 01:25:35.760 what's the difference between a 01:25:35.760 --> 01:25:37.560 simulation of Bonnie that I'm running 01:25:37.560 --> 01:25:39.900 and is there any way not to be in a 01:25:39.900 --> 01:25:41.760 simulation here 01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:44.420 with you 01:25:44.699 --> 01:25:46.920 um in this context but you you mentioned 01:25:46.920 --> 01:25:50.520 the zoom thing yeah so 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:52.920 um right so this is I use it because 01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:55.440 simulations aren't bad because if we 01:25:55.440 --> 01:25:57.840 want all simulating this we need very 01:25:57.840 --> 01:25:59.940 confused 01:25:59.940 --> 01:26:02.520 like I would hear something I'm like 01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:04.800 what where's that man's voice coming 01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:07.560 from I mean I think it would be very 01:26:07.560 --> 01:26:12.420 confusing if we weren't simulating 01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:16.280 a room and people in the room and and 01:26:16.280 --> 01:26:18.199 carrying it together 01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:23.639 if I had to track this experience as 01:26:23.639 --> 01:26:26.639 code and pixels and electrons and this 01:26:26.639 --> 01:26:30.900 and that it'd be very hard for me to 01:26:30.900 --> 01:26:33.600 have any bandwidth to participate in 01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:37.980 this way so the shorthand is we run a 01:26:37.980 --> 01:26:40.199 simulation together 01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:43.920 and when I hear you talk I'm I'm not 01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:45.239 like 01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:49.620 you know what I mean I'm not confused uh 01:26:49.620 --> 01:26:56.639 um I normalize it in inside a theory and 01:26:56.639 --> 01:27:00.659 um and I allow we it's very easy just to 01:27:00.659 --> 01:27:03.300 simulate it and and makes it very easy 01:27:03.300 --> 01:27:06.420 for us to do this just like again the 01:27:06.420 --> 01:27:09.480 two plumbers trying to figure out 01:27:09.480 --> 01:27:11.520 and someone says oh we need you know one 01:27:11.520 --> 01:27:14.880 of those four ways and then I I see in 01:27:14.880 --> 01:27:16.380 my mind that that's going to have a 01:27:16.380 --> 01:27:22.620 four-way and and and it's it's very easy 01:27:22.620 --> 01:27:25.020 inconvenient 01:27:25.020 --> 01:27:29.300 to be able to do that as as people 01:27:29.820 --> 01:27:31.800 yeah so but it's also the case in a 01:27:31.800 --> 01:27:35.639 physical meeting yes okay but the weird 01:27:35.639 --> 01:27:37.380 thing about this is not everything 01:27:37.380 --> 01:27:40.020 that's even before we get to talk we 01:27:40.020 --> 01:27:41.520 have to run a simulate you know 01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.239 simulation so this is not 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:46.380 um 01:27:46.380 --> 01:27:49.260 this one okay the interface of this 01:27:49.260 --> 01:27:53.219 simulation is so beautiful that I ca I 01:27:53.219 --> 01:27:55.260 don't even feel the effort of running a 01:27:55.260 --> 01:27:56.520 simulation 01:27:56.520 --> 01:28:00.300 however it is true that people get Zoom 01:28:00.300 --> 01:28:03.420 fatigue and it's and 01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:05.880 um they've done some experiments on it 01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:09.060 and and we think it's because there is 01:28:09.060 --> 01:28:10.980 some 01:28:10.980 --> 01:28:14.280 some running effort to to you know I 01:28:14.280 --> 01:28:15.960 can't experience this too much as a 01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:19.440 simulation but apparently there is some 01:28:19.440 --> 01:28:22.699 effort needed required cognitive effort 01:28:22.699 --> 01:28:25.500 uh for us to 01:28:25.500 --> 01:28:29.060 run this as a simulation 01:28:30.900 --> 01:28:33.120 it's interesting because the trade-off 01:28:33.120 --> 01:28:34.920 is we're so social we have so much 01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:37.260 Social Anxiety that there's a lot of 01:28:37.260 --> 01:28:39.060 effort for us to talk to each other face 01:28:39.060 --> 01:28:40.860 to face 01:28:40.860 --> 01:28:44.400 versus the effort to run a simulation 01:28:44.400 --> 01:28:47.120 like this 01:28:50.659 --> 01:28:52.620 sometimes you know when we were doing 01:28:52.620 --> 01:28:56.120 the four posture meditations 01:28:56.520 --> 01:28:59.639 I was doing them too and I I and then 01:28:59.639 --> 01:29:01.980 we'd come back after the 20 minutes and 01:29:01.980 --> 01:29:05.639 it was really I had to like slap myself 01:29:05.639 --> 01:29:08.940 into being like it just seemed so weird 01:29:08.940 --> 01:29:11.580 like I like what is like it just seems 01:29:11.580 --> 01:29:13.980 like a TV show or something I couldn't 01:29:13.980 --> 01:29:15.960 and I had to like 01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:19.440 wake myself up and reboot the simulation 01:29:19.440 --> 01:29:21.120 because I'd been in the like really 01:29:21.120 --> 01:29:23.780 perceptual Zone you know 01:29:23.780 --> 01:29:26.219 uh and 01:29:26.219 --> 01:29:28.320 and then I would let that 01:29:28.320 --> 01:29:30.780 I would let that be the case for a while 01:29:30.780 --> 01:29:33.719 and like you know this is it just seems 01:29:33.719 --> 01:29:36.139 so weird 01:29:36.719 --> 01:29:39.300 looking at a screen 01:29:39.300 --> 01:29:43.380 um so sometimes that toggles for me 01:29:43.380 --> 01:29:46.560 I think you don't seem like people 01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:49.560 yeah I feel like in this course 01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:51.440 um through this reflectivity practices 01:29:51.440 --> 01:29:54.179 again I'm trying like I'm entering in 01:29:54.179 --> 01:29:55.620 like I'm playing with it all the time 01:29:55.620 --> 01:29:58.460 but I think as I just I feel like I 01:29:58.460 --> 01:30:00.360 experienced what you just explained 01:30:00.360 --> 01:30:02.820 sometimes like when I'm then I just see 01:30:02.820 --> 01:30:05.340 the screen in front of me 01:30:05.340 --> 01:30:08.820 then yeah I think I think I think I know 01:30:08.820 --> 01:30:11.719 what you meant there yeah 01:30:11.719 --> 01:30:14.280 in the previous modules just like this 01:30:14.280 --> 01:30:16.440 one uh at least I noticed that 01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:17.699 yeah 01:30:17.699 --> 01:30:20.100 and that's that's when you can tell that 01:30:20.100 --> 01:30:22.260 there is some effort in running the 01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:24.320 simulation but in general 01:30:24.320 --> 01:30:28.520 it's not it's not that 01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:31.040 it's not that hard to hijack or 01:30:31.040 --> 01:30:33.840 simulations you know so 01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:35.880 uh 01:30:35.880 --> 01:30:38.580 like can you imagine 01:30:38.580 --> 01:30:40.020 I'm sure they're gonna make this movie 01:30:40.020 --> 01:30:42.120 can you imagine really going through 01:30:42.120 --> 01:30:44.340 like like let's say Collective 01:30:44.340 --> 01:30:47.400 presidency and being with people and 01:30:47.400 --> 01:30:50.400 really going through all this pain and 01:30:50.400 --> 01:30:53.699 suffering and then one day you just it's 01:30:53.699 --> 01:30:56.340 like it's like the Jim Carrey in that 01:30:56.340 --> 01:30:59.100 show what was that show that what was 01:30:59.100 --> 01:31:02.100 that show family uh yeah and then one 01:31:02.100 --> 01:31:05.040 day someone shows you oh they're just 01:31:05.040 --> 01:31:08.219 they were just you know AI it was just a 01:31:08.219 --> 01:31:10.080 big simulation 01:31:10.080 --> 01:31:13.679 can you imagine like 01:31:13.679 --> 01:31:16.500 what a nightmare 01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:21.860 I've met Sandra and Katie and Aaron 01:31:23.639 --> 01:31:26.040 so 01:31:26.040 --> 01:31:29.280 doesn't mean that but anyways so that's 01:31:29.280 --> 01:31:31.739 the stuff of like cuckoo right we have 01:31:31.739 --> 01:31:34.040 to 01:31:38.940 --> 01:31:40.920 yeah but look at what you just did you 01:31:40.920 --> 01:31:43.560 just said I've met Sandra I've met I 01:31:43.560 --> 01:31:46.620 mean you know it's it's like it's gonna 01:31:46.620 --> 01:31:50.040 take that kind of 01:31:50.040 --> 01:31:51.020 um 01:31:51.020 --> 01:31:53.460 I don't know I have trouble with the 01:31:53.460 --> 01:31:56.400 word simulation because I mean it's 01:31:56.400 --> 01:31:59.280 etymology is imitation so what is this 01:31:59.280 --> 01:32:02.540 imitating exactly 01:32:04.199 --> 01:32:07.020 did you understand the story of the two 01:32:07.020 --> 01:32:09.440 plumbers 01:32:10.020 --> 01:32:13.139 instead of them going and taking a pipe 01:32:13.139 --> 01:32:14.699 and then another thing and then yeah 01:32:14.699 --> 01:32:17.820 yeah that's what a simulation is you 01:32:17.820 --> 01:32:19.920 simulate a hypothetical environment 01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:21.659 that's all yeah but if you talk about 01:32:21.659 --> 01:32:24.179 Plumbing I mean it's like 01:32:24.179 --> 01:32:26.639 yeah absolutely 01:32:26.639 --> 01:32:30.719 um but I don't know if all Realms can be 01:32:30.719 --> 01:32:33.659 reduced to a plumbing Story I mean 01:32:33.659 --> 01:32:35.880 simulation works the same way no matter 01:32:35.880 --> 01:32:39.360 how complex flexes the same thing you're 01:32:39.360 --> 01:32:42.300 just running a simulation so what is 01:32:42.300 --> 01:32:43.980 this simulating 01:32:43.980 --> 01:32:46.679 this experience we're having that there 01:32:46.679 --> 01:32:48.780 are people real people in the room that 01:32:48.780 --> 01:32:51.500 I'm talking to 01:32:51.900 --> 01:32:55.020 and not that like if I wasn't running a 01:32:55.020 --> 01:32:57.420 simulation and I heard William in my 01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:00.139 head I'd be like 01:33:02.340 --> 01:33:05.040 I'd be all freaked out 01:33:05.040 --> 01:33:07.139 but 01:33:07.139 --> 01:33:09.780 I'm simulating that there's a man will 01:33:09.780 --> 01:33:13.639 have somewhere in a room talking to me 01:33:13.639 --> 01:33:15.920 we 01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:19.820 enjoy this simulation 01:33:22.080 --> 01:33:24.420 trusting it in fact it could be 01:33:24.420 --> 01:33:26.820 otherwise 01:33:26.820 --> 01:33:30.600 as we just said but I think I think the 01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:32.699 fact that you said the word trust is 01:33:32.699 --> 01:33:35.280 very important yeah because we're trying 01:33:35.280 --> 01:33:38.100 we're running a shared simulation and 01:33:38.100 --> 01:33:41.340 and yeah it's and it's running 01:33:41.340 --> 01:33:44.699 effortlessly because I'm not except when 01:33:44.699 --> 01:33:48.659 as Samuel just said sometimes when we we 01:33:48.659 --> 01:33:53.159 did those exercises I come back and I 01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:55.620 don't the simulation isn't isn't running 01:33:55.620 --> 01:33:57.600 and I feel like well there's a screen in 01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:59.340 front of me I can't boot up the interest 01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:02.639 I can't feel you guys there I can't 01:34:02.639 --> 01:34:05.580 and I just think I just feel this very 01:34:05.580 --> 01:34:08.100 flat weird thing that I'm talking to a 01:34:08.100 --> 01:34:10.620 screen that's because the simulation 01:34:10.620 --> 01:34:12.420 wasn't running when I was in that deep 01:34:12.420 --> 01:34:14.940 meditation and then I have to like 01:34:14.940 --> 01:34:18.060 oh yeah oh yeah these are people I have 01:34:18.060 --> 01:34:19.380 to 01:34:19.380 --> 01:34:23.760 I have to supply in my own body what 01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:26.580 would be supplied to me by your body 01:34:26.580 --> 01:34:28.440 that's the effort of running the 01:34:28.440 --> 01:34:30.480 simulation 01:34:30.480 --> 01:34:33.420 so if the simulation 01:34:33.420 --> 01:34:35.280 um like some of the collective 01:34:35.280 --> 01:34:37.380 presencing that we've done in breakout 01:34:37.380 --> 01:34:40.320 rooms which is deeply moving and and 01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:42.360 feels intimate 01:34:42.360 --> 01:34:44.460 if you realize that I played a joke on 01:34:44.460 --> 01:34:47.900 you and those were just AIS 01:34:51.360 --> 01:34:55.219 could I run simulation on you 01:34:56.219 --> 01:34:58.260 that could that tell I'm telling you 01:34:58.260 --> 01:35:00.120 that's hap that's coming down the pipe 01:35:00.120 --> 01:35:02.699 I'm not doing it but 01:35:02.699 --> 01:35:07.080 no I mean I guess I I'm I'm refusing 01:35:07.080 --> 01:35:11.460 you know the the main pipeline 01:35:11.460 --> 01:35:14.040 um uh to be fear you know and and if we 01:35:14.040 --> 01:35:16.260 are to say that absolutely everything 01:35:16.260 --> 01:35:19.020 that's on the planet is of this planet 01:35:19.020 --> 01:35:23.400 that has entered modalities okay and we 01:35:23.400 --> 01:35:26.340 can't really separate 01:35:26.340 --> 01:35:27.260 um 01:35:27.260 --> 01:35:30.239 you know what does the word artificial 01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:32.760 really mean and I'm not trying to be say 01:35:32.760 --> 01:35:34.679 everything is a simulation 01:35:34.679 --> 01:35:37.620 I'm saying we need to be aware of when 01:35:37.620 --> 01:35:39.659 we're running simulations or else 01:35:39.659 --> 01:35:42.300 they'll run us 01:35:42.300 --> 01:35:44.179 okay excellent I love it 01:35:44.179 --> 01:35:46.739 if you can be aware of running a 01:35:46.739 --> 01:35:50.520 simulation it means you're not in one 01:35:50.520 --> 01:35:51.840 but 01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:55.080 you're cantankerous and ornery today 01:35:55.080 --> 01:35:58.560 oh no no it's just that the the intimate 01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:01.820 realm around here from a kind of 01:36:01.820 --> 01:36:04.800 organizational standpoint is blowing up 01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:07.500 and I didn't get to go in the woods and 01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:10.020 dance and cry and been jealous I had to 01:36:10.020 --> 01:36:13.320 be here so I'm stimulating uh my 01:36:13.320 --> 01:36:16.620 participation somewhat but also very 01:36:16.620 --> 01:36:18.380 hungry right right 01:36:18.380 --> 01:36:21.300 exactly I wasn't suggesting that be 01:36:21.300 --> 01:36:23.520 paranoid about this experience I was 01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:25.800 just saying that pond life is running 01:36:25.800 --> 01:36:28.679 simulation I know that's what's so 01:36:28.679 --> 01:36:34.199 amazing it's the you know right 01:36:36.840 --> 01:36:39.679 okay Pond life running simulations 01:36:39.679 --> 01:36:42.500 forgetting it's running simulation 01:36:42.500 --> 01:36:45.300 I hope the next time you talk you're 01:36:45.300 --> 01:36:48.300 with Michael Taft or you can and you and 01:36:48.300 --> 01:36:50.580 you start meditating all you can see is 01:36:50.580 --> 01:36:54.020 like Pond life 01:36:54.540 --> 01:36:57.600 how much time are you doing this it's a 01:36:57.600 --> 01:37:01.139 it's a freaky it's freaky it's real but 01:37:01.139 --> 01:37:02.820 it's freaky I think it's beautiful 01:37:02.820 --> 01:37:05.600 freaky 01:37:05.940 --> 01:37:08.580 it's better than the metaverse 01:37:08.580 --> 01:37:10.920 it's better than the metaverse like it's 01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:14.280 already too much what is well back to 01:37:14.280 --> 01:37:16.380 the pollution right I mean you call it 01:37:16.380 --> 01:37:19.199 pollution but like pollution is the 01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:22.320 emergence of something I mean of 01:37:22.320 --> 01:37:25.199 something potentially novel that we 01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:26.159 couldn't 01:37:26.159 --> 01:37:29.000 predict 01:37:40.560 --> 01:37:44.179 so let me give you an example 01:37:45.360 --> 01:37:47.699 so horses 01:37:47.699 --> 01:37:48.900 um 01:37:48.900 --> 01:37:52.620 don't have two stomachs and they can't 01:37:52.620 --> 01:37:59.900 digest cellulose which is what hay is 01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:05.219 so how how do they survive how do they 01:38:05.219 --> 01:38:07.980 get their nutrients well horses guts 01:38:07.980 --> 01:38:12.060 have a very complex microbiome of all 01:38:12.060 --> 01:38:13.739 these different bacteria 01:38:13.739 --> 01:38:17.400 and the bacteria digests the legumes 01:38:17.400 --> 01:38:22.139 and they release a fermentation project 01:38:22.139 --> 01:38:23.820 products 01:38:23.820 --> 01:38:28.679 that then the horses can digest this is 01:38:28.679 --> 01:38:31.560 why they also get fat on beer if you 01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:33.060 have an underweight horse you can feed 01:38:33.060 --> 01:38:36.000 them Guinness Scouts 01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:38.699 um so 01:38:38.699 --> 01:38:41.880 so they're basically what a horse's 01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:43.980 digestive system is they basically a 01:38:43.980 --> 01:38:45.780 horse is a Rancher and they Ranch 01:38:45.780 --> 01:38:49.260 different gut biomes right this is why 01:38:49.260 --> 01:38:51.060 if you have a horse and you feed them 01:38:51.060 --> 01:38:53.340 the exact same thing every day for 10 01:38:53.340 --> 01:38:54.900 years and then it goes to a different 01:38:54.900 --> 01:38:58.260 bomb he can die if the feed changes 01:38:58.260 --> 01:39:00.840 because you've selected for a single 01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:03.239 microbiome and he doesn't have a complex 01:39:03.239 --> 01:39:06.179 Ecology of Flora and in the wild they 01:39:06.179 --> 01:39:08.520 eat a lot of different things right so 01:39:08.520 --> 01:39:14.460 This Is How They so the the horses don't 01:39:14.460 --> 01:39:18.719 actually eat the food they eat they eat 01:39:18.719 --> 01:39:21.739 the little micro 01:39:21.739 --> 01:39:24.300 organisms that they Ranch 01:39:24.300 --> 01:39:28.139 okay so what what it looks like eating 01:39:28.139 --> 01:39:31.560 is feeding they feed 01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:33.300 they're not eating the hay they're 01:39:33.300 --> 01:39:36.060 feeding them to their microorganisms 01:39:36.060 --> 01:39:39.320 does that make sense 01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:43.440 so that's a little bit of aversion like 01:39:43.440 --> 01:39:46.320 a pond life like their guts is like Pond 01:39:46.320 --> 01:39:49.199 life and then they 01:39:49.199 --> 01:39:51.780 it turns into horse 01:39:51.780 --> 01:39:55.080 like and this is something similar 01:39:55.080 --> 01:40:01.280 between Pond life and human life 01:40:12.500 --> 01:40:16.739 it's also why in meditation you get to 01:40:16.739 --> 01:40:20.820 this point where you realize you don't 01:40:20.820 --> 01:40:23.000 um 01:40:23.460 --> 01:40:26.219 you don't initiate your thoughts you can 01:40:26.219 --> 01:40:29.219 actually start to see them arise and 01:40:29.219 --> 01:40:32.060 where do they come from 01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:36.900 this is this is 01:40:36.900 --> 01:40:39.719 you know in that book the answer was 42 01:40:39.719 --> 01:40:42.780 and of course the answer is always Pond 01:40:42.780 --> 01:40:44.610 life 01:40:44.610 --> 01:40:47.780 [Music] 01:40:59.280 --> 01:41:00.780 [Music] 01:41:00.780 --> 01:41:04.020 and then this of course is in I'm going 01:41:04.020 --> 01:41:05.460 to try to come back to the course 01:41:05.460 --> 01:41:09.360 content and that we call reflection 01:41:09.360 --> 01:41:12.440 and we said reflection has two meanings 01:41:12.440 --> 01:41:16.199 it has a 01:41:16.199 --> 01:41:18.060 trivial meaning which is when you 01:41:18.060 --> 01:41:19.920 reflect on something after the fact 01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:22.679 right retrospective sense making but 01:41:22.679 --> 01:41:25.739 then there is a spiritual meaning that 01:41:25.739 --> 01:41:28.199 the inner and all outer worlds are 01:41:28.199 --> 01:41:31.139 perfect reflections of each other 01:41:31.139 --> 01:41:32.880 so think about that the next time you 01:41:32.880 --> 01:41:36.199 look at a real pond 01:41:40.619 --> 01:41:43.940 it's not a metaphor 01:41:58.020 --> 01:42:00.480 it's what you know 01:42:00.480 --> 01:42:03.300 at Master Eckhart said the eyes that 01:42:03.300 --> 01:42:06.179 look for God are the eyes 01:42:06.179 --> 01:42:08.100 that God is looking with or something 01:42:08.100 --> 01:42:11.159 right so this is the you look at the 01:42:11.159 --> 01:42:12.840 poem you said the eyes that are looking 01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:15.540 at the pawn 01:42:15.540 --> 01:42:17.699 by the eyes that the pond is looking 01:42:17.699 --> 01:42:18.900 with 01:42:18.900 --> 01:42:22.139 it's just there's two different ponds 01:42:22.139 --> 01:42:24.360 or maybe they're the same 01:42:24.360 --> 01:42:26.159 because there's actually no separation 01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:28.580 but 01:42:28.800 --> 01:42:32.900 this is perfect reflection 01:42:39.659 --> 01:42:43.340 why does it feel so sweet 01:42:45.659 --> 01:42:48.260 what 01:42:50.940 --> 01:42:52.480 your mom 01:42:52.480 --> 01:42:55.800 [Music] 01:43:02.100 --> 01:43:05.960 I didn't hang up on my mom like that 01:43:07.080 --> 01:43:09.300 I wanted to ask why does it feel so soup 01:43:09.300 --> 01:43:11.460 I wanted to ask why does it feel so 01:43:11.460 --> 01:43:14.760 super good in my body when you say the 01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:18.360 answer to everything here is a pond or 01:43:18.360 --> 01:43:20.580 Pond life 01:43:20.580 --> 01:43:22.679 something happens in my body 01:43:22.679 --> 01:43:25.739 and it's it's a good feeling and it's 01:43:25.739 --> 01:43:28.080 but and it's better than like getting an 01:43:28.080 --> 01:43:31.020 ice cream or winning the lottery it's a 01:43:31.020 --> 01:43:35.360 different quality of feeling really good 01:43:36.719 --> 01:43:39.600 hey can you follow my question yeah I 01:43:39.600 --> 01:43:42.900 mean that's great it's a biomarker I 01:43:42.900 --> 01:43:44.820 would say no separation you know we're 01:43:44.820 --> 01:43:48.360 dying of the the basic uh problem we 01:43:48.360 --> 01:43:50.820 have is we feel separate 01:43:50.820 --> 01:43:54.360 and that we don't belong and 01:43:54.360 --> 01:43:57.659 this feeling of 01:43:57.659 --> 01:43:59.580 finding home or something I mean you 01:43:59.580 --> 01:44:02.100 might have other words for it but the 01:44:02.100 --> 01:44:05.239 sense of or the truth sense is sometimes 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:08.219 used as a word 01:44:08.219 --> 01:44:09.480 um 01:44:09.480 --> 01:44:12.260 and 01:44:15.480 --> 01:44:18.080 the obviousness of the 01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:22.139 holistic entanglement of everything 01:44:22.139 --> 01:44:24.260 um 01:44:40.380 --> 01:44:43.320 it's interesting how like 01:44:43.320 --> 01:44:45.179 I mean I've never 01:44:45.179 --> 01:44:47.880 this phrase I've never used before and 01:44:47.880 --> 01:44:51.679 it came from Samuel's question about 01:44:51.679 --> 01:44:55.080 predictive processing 01:44:55.080 --> 01:44:57.199 um 01:44:58.320 --> 01:45:00.480 and that thing I said on Twitter what is 01:45:00.480 --> 01:45:03.119 my brain doing when I when I'm doing 01:45:03.119 --> 01:45:06.619 math it's not doing math 01:45:07.739 --> 01:45:10.260 what's interesting about it is that it's 01:45:10.260 --> 01:45:13.020 a very obvious answer 01:45:13.020 --> 01:45:15.780 that what your brain is doing is I mean 01:45:15.780 --> 01:45:17.520 it wouldn't have been obvious years ago 01:45:17.520 --> 01:45:19.440 but we have 01:45:19.440 --> 01:45:23.480 all kinds of technology to 01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:26.940 you know uh the perceptual depth just to 01:45:26.940 --> 01:45:30.360 look at neurons in 01:45:30.360 --> 01:45:33.000 you know in in 01:45:33.000 --> 01:45:34.080 yeah 01:45:34.080 --> 01:45:36.860 so 01:45:38.219 --> 01:45:39.800 you know you could say there's also 01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:41.820 electrical happening but like Michael 01:45:41.820 --> 01:45:43.580 Levin's work is like that's what 01:45:43.580 --> 01:45:45.780 microorganisms are doing in ponds they 01:45:45.780 --> 01:45:47.699 have Gap Junctions and there's 01:45:47.699 --> 01:45:50.639 bioelectric communication happening and 01:45:50.639 --> 01:45:52.260 stuff like that so we're getting closer 01:45:52.260 --> 01:45:54.540 and closer to actually understanding the 01:45:54.540 --> 01:45:56.719 the 01:45:56.719 --> 01:46:01.940 isomorphism of pond life and brains 01:46:17.040 --> 01:46:20.760 okay another obnoxious question the fact 01:46:20.760 --> 01:46:23.639 that we use you know these very very 01:46:23.639 --> 01:46:26.400 sophisticated microscopes in order to 01:46:26.400 --> 01:46:29.820 see and observe what Michael Evans 01:46:29.820 --> 01:46:33.659 talking about and that obviously most 01:46:33.659 --> 01:46:37.380 people 10 years ago didn't even know or 01:46:37.380 --> 01:46:40.440 have access to that information 01:46:40.440 --> 01:46:40.980 um 01:46:40.980 --> 01:46:41.880 um 01:46:41.880 --> 01:46:45.179 you know is is the 01:46:45.179 --> 01:46:47.040 um 01:46:47.040 --> 01:46:50.940 um good feeling that villain was talking 01:46:50.940 --> 01:46:54.659 about that comes from you know the pond 01:46:54.659 --> 01:46:56.400 life 01:46:56.400 --> 01:46:58.520 um 01:47:03.080 --> 01:47:07.739 does it need to come from these these 01:47:07.739 --> 01:47:09.900 things that we didn't have access to 10 01:47:09.900 --> 01:47:12.179 years ago or 01:47:12.179 --> 01:47:15.840 are there other ways of 01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:17.880 and I'm not going to go to indeed all 01:47:17.880 --> 01:47:20.699 indigenous or anything here but 01:47:20.699 --> 01:47:22.760 um 01:47:26.840 --> 01:47:30.800 that inseparability 01:47:34.020 --> 01:47:37.020 does it need that argument does it need 01:47:37.020 --> 01:47:41.960 the micro ovens or is it possible to 01:47:42.600 --> 01:47:44.719 um 01:47:48.300 --> 01:47:49.980 I think it is 01:47:49.980 --> 01:47:52.260 I mean I think it happens sometimes in 01:47:52.260 --> 01:47:55.560 like poetry you know there's there's 01:47:55.560 --> 01:47:57.860 something 01:47:58.020 --> 01:48:00.780 um right I mean I think we have people 01:48:00.780 --> 01:48:03.480 have the suspicion or this this knowing 01:48:03.480 --> 01:48:04.440 that 01:48:04.440 --> 01:48:06.780 that is like that's notion of perfect 01:48:06.780 --> 01:48:08.940 reflection in the spiritual Traditions 01:48:08.940 --> 01:48:11.400 but it's just I'm just saying it's it's 01:48:11.400 --> 01:48:13.080 we're at the point in history where it's 01:48:13.080 --> 01:48:15.980 just obvious 01:48:16.139 --> 01:48:17.520 um 01:48:17.520 --> 01:48:19.980 I mean there's no nothing in the 01:48:19.980 --> 01:48:22.260 spiritual Traditions that says your mind 01:48:22.260 --> 01:48:24.600 is like a pond but 01:48:24.600 --> 01:48:30.619 um but this has become very obvious 01:48:31.500 --> 01:48:33.560 um 01:48:38.219 --> 01:48:40.440 you know what's interesting that um 01:48:40.440 --> 01:48:44.400 before we understood about the brain the 01:48:44.400 --> 01:48:47.040 the reason why they thought the heart 01:48:47.040 --> 01:48:49.619 was where their mind was 01:48:49.619 --> 01:48:52.739 is because they understood that 01:48:52.739 --> 01:48:55.739 the heart pumped uh blood to all the 01:48:55.739 --> 01:48:58.020 extremities and back and they understood 01:48:58.020 --> 01:49:00.619 that there needed to be a central 01:49:00.619 --> 01:49:03.780 feature that had contact with the whole 01:49:03.780 --> 01:49:06.060 periphery of the body and they could 01:49:06.060 --> 01:49:08.040 they couldn't see the nervous system 01:49:08.040 --> 01:49:11.159 when they dissected it so they actually 01:49:11.159 --> 01:49:13.500 were looking for something that 01:49:13.500 --> 01:49:15.900 functioned you know like the the brain 01:49:15.900 --> 01:49:19.260 has effort and afferent now it turns out 01:49:19.260 --> 01:49:21.360 that both are true that the blood 01:49:21.360 --> 01:49:24.020 circulation is also 01:49:24.020 --> 01:49:28.639 bioelectrically active so you have 01:49:28.800 --> 01:49:31.860 yeah and then the and then 01:49:31.860 --> 01:49:33.900 the respiratory system the same thing 01:49:33.900 --> 01:49:36.480 you have centers that 01:49:36.480 --> 01:49:38.760 air collects and then goes out to the 01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:40.619 whole body blood collects and goes out 01:49:40.619 --> 01:49:42.900 to the whole body the centralized 01:49:42.900 --> 01:49:44.699 nervous system collects information and 01:49:44.699 --> 01:49:48.540 goes out so we have these three organs 01:49:48.540 --> 01:49:50.580 of 01:49:50.580 --> 01:49:51.780 um 01:49:51.780 --> 01:49:54.540 you could think of a digestive system as 01:49:54.540 --> 01:49:56.580 all these up hierarchies you know that 01:49:56.580 --> 01:49:59.040 have access to the periphery which goes 01:49:59.040 --> 01:50:00.920 out into the world and then 01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:04.920 centralizes and there's many systems 01:50:04.920 --> 01:50:07.800 like that but at first they thought the 01:50:07.800 --> 01:50:11.820 heart and the circulatory system was 01:50:11.820 --> 01:50:13.219 the the 01:50:13.219 --> 01:50:16.260 what we now call the brain right the 01:50:16.260 --> 01:50:18.960 centralization of 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:21.900 information because they knew it had to 01:50:21.900 --> 01:50:25.199 be something that had access to 01:50:25.199 --> 01:50:27.420 touch and say you know the whole body 01:50:27.420 --> 01:50:30.060 and then centralized or Central 01:50:30.060 --> 01:50:32.780 organization 01:50:48.420 --> 01:50:51.420 alrighty 01:50:57.060 --> 01:50:59.600 myself 01:51:01.199 --> 01:51:05.119 I shouldn't have used that word 01:51:43.159 --> 01:51:46.380 simulating simulation for the record 01:51:46.380 --> 01:51:49.739 Bonnie you're invited to my party too 01:51:49.739 --> 01:51:52.320 and we're going to jump in puddles 01:51:52.320 --> 01:51:55.760 got plenty of Puddles up here 01:52:05.639 --> 01:52:09.000 okay so now we'll end with a when it 01:52:09.000 --> 01:52:11.699 ends with a kind of a mind Cohen 01:52:11.699 --> 01:52:14.340 it's it's this is not this is just 01:52:14.340 --> 01:52:16.139 something 01:52:16.139 --> 01:52:18.420 to torture your mind if you want to 01:52:18.420 --> 01:52:20.340 think about it so 01:52:20.340 --> 01:52:23.699 we said that the the what's in my head 01:52:23.699 --> 01:52:25.440 is just a pond 01:52:25.440 --> 01:52:28.199 what if we reversed it and we saw the 01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:33.739 pine as cerebral spinal fluid 01:52:34.380 --> 01:52:38.540 would there be an intelligence in there 01:52:38.760 --> 01:52:41.960 see how I flipped it 01:52:43.860 --> 01:52:46.139 this is what we have to talk about when 01:52:46.139 --> 01:52:50.239 we come back in the fall is is 01:52:51.980 --> 01:52:55.400 when do collections 01:52:55.400 --> 01:52:59.040 become the next level 01:52:59.040 --> 01:53:02.040 awareness 01:53:13.219 --> 01:53:17.580 there's a pond a real literal pond have 01:53:17.580 --> 01:53:22.619 a superordinate awareness 01:53:23.040 --> 01:53:25.980 the way our 01:53:25.980 --> 01:53:28.980 pond in our skull has a subordinate 01:53:28.980 --> 01:53:31.520 awareness 01:53:33.540 --> 01:53:36.739 it's a freaky question 01:53:42.719 --> 01:53:44.340 but that 01:53:44.340 --> 01:53:47.280 might be what my goal attack is trying 01:53:47.280 --> 01:53:49.760 to say 01:53:57.119 --> 01:54:00.020 but I don't know 01:54:03.360 --> 01:54:05.880 his Twitter Handle by the way is what 01:54:05.880 --> 01:54:09.619 Michael Taps simulation 01:54:11.040 --> 01:54:13.800 so we're going to dedicate this session 01:54:13.800 --> 01:54:16.639 to you Michael 01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:20.280 good work 01:54:20.280 --> 01:54:23.119 laughs ## Cohort 6 00:00:04.319 --> 00:00:06.860 foreign 00:00:09.139 --> 00:00:10.700 okay 00:00:10.700 --> 00:00:15.000 uh welcome for the final installment 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.839 of 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:23.240 um the module on awareness reflection 00:00:23.240 --> 00:00:27.660 reflexivity and awareness 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:29.779 um 00:00:30.779 --> 00:00:33.719 we're going to go into uh breakout 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:36.899 groups to generate 00:00:36.899 --> 00:00:39.660 um some Reflections and questions hi 00:00:39.660 --> 00:00:43.280 Eric nice to see you 00:00:43.440 --> 00:00:45.600 um just you know Aaron we're going to do 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:47.940 a recap of all these sessions starting 00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:51.600 net they've already told you right so 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:54.899 um yeah so this will be kind of 00:00:54.899 --> 00:00:56.579 interesting for you 00:00:56.579 --> 00:00:59.780 um cool thank you yeah 00:01:00.180 --> 00:01:00.960 um 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:02.520 so 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.939 um we basically just made some 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:08.100 distinctions in this module we have 00:01:08.100 --> 00:01:11.340 something called reflection 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:15.180 it's there's a trivial uh meaning of the 00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:17.280 term which means you reflect on 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.740 something after the fact you make sense 00:01:19.740 --> 00:01:22.740 retrospectively 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:23.759 um 00:01:23.759 --> 00:01:27.080 and then we have this term reflection 00:01:27.080 --> 00:01:30.240 that has a spiritual kind of term that 00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:33.000 we've been playing with when you'll read 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.659 that the mind is a perfect reflection of 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:40.200 the world or the world is a perfect 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.600 reflection of something else what does 00:01:42.600 --> 00:01:45.659 that mean there's this this spiritual 00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:48.600 meaning that we've been playing with so 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:51.060 that's that word 00:01:51.060 --> 00:01:53.520 and then we're talking about this thing 00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:57.240 called reflexivity and it's not a good 00:01:57.240 --> 00:01:59.759 word for everyone wilham in German it's 00:01:59.759 --> 00:02:02.220 not a good word because we don't mean 00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:04.740 something like reflexivity of the market 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:06.780 which means when one thing moves all 00:02:06.780 --> 00:02:08.340 these other things move 00:02:08.340 --> 00:02:12.180 we mean attending to all of one's 00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:14.580 experience in the moment so you're kind 00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.560 of how much 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.760 can you be aware of in the moment and 00:02:20.760 --> 00:02:23.220 reflects it without oscillating like 00:02:23.220 --> 00:02:26.580 first like usually what happens to us 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:29.580 I'm aware maybe that you're getting mad 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:32.220 and then I'm aware that I'm I go inside 00:02:32.220 --> 00:02:34.379 and I have internal dialogue and then 00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:37.140 usually we jump around and reflexivity 00:02:37.140 --> 00:02:39.500 is can you have a Gestalt 00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:43.620 uh that's aware of time and space and 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:45.840 you're internally external as a Gestalt 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.099 instead of all these different 00:02:47.099 --> 00:02:49.500 oscillations that we might have 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.120 and 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.239 um Kim described last time 00:02:54.239 --> 00:02:56.099 um when she and her dog were on a walk 00:02:56.099 --> 00:02:58.980 and they ran into a bear and a lot of 00:02:58.980 --> 00:03:00.840 things were online 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.680 at the same time not a distraction so 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:05.459 um 00:03:05.459 --> 00:03:08.940 and then we have this term so that's 00:03:08.940 --> 00:03:10.920 reflexivity and then there's this term 00:03:10.920 --> 00:03:15.180 awareness that we've been working with 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.940 um that we're going to return to a 00:03:17.940 --> 00:03:20.760 little bit today and 00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:22.879 um 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:28.019 yeah so we'll we'll be we'll be working 00:03:28.019 --> 00:03:31.459 with that are there any questions about 00:03:31.459 --> 00:03:33.260 these three 00:03:33.260 --> 00:03:36.239 units or 00:03:36.239 --> 00:03:38.099 um something that we've done 00:03:38.099 --> 00:03:41.459 last week or in the in in the videos 00:03:41.459 --> 00:03:43.560 that you've watched or certainly clarify 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.940 clarifying questions David 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.000 please 00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:53.340 I had a sense you were excited there was 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:56.159 a question maybe even me questioning 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.200 anyway 00:03:58.200 --> 00:03:59.940 um 00:03:59.940 --> 00:04:02.700 when I was cramming this morning um the 00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:05.940 reason I raised my hand was to 00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:08.640 um share an additional element to this 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:10.980 module which is recursivity 00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:13.819 okay okay 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:17.699 do it and the part the part that I'm 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:20.900 just starting to 00:04:20.900 --> 00:04:24.900 integrate is 00:04:24.900 --> 00:04:26.520 getting a 00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:30.360 a really a a visceral sense of what 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:34.919 infinite regression is not a rational 00:04:34.919 --> 00:04:37.139 sense because I can't figure that out 00:04:37.139 --> 00:04:41.360 right but I can feel 00:04:41.479 --> 00:04:44.520 nature being reflected back and forth 00:04:44.520 --> 00:04:48.500 and back and forth in the twinness 00:04:48.500 --> 00:04:52.680 that feels real to me 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.639 and 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.340 recursivity the loop of returning back 00:04:59.340 --> 00:05:01.759 to something 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.040 stops pauses 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:09.120 attending to the vastness of what what 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.060 we really are when we're in this River 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:14.699 of Life 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:17.639 so that's what I wanted to share yeah so 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.860 it's an important it's very important 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.380 to sit out because 00:05:25.380 --> 00:05:27.060 because but um 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:30.060 um yeah so nature pings on itself pings 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:32.039 on itself pings on itself there's this 00:05:32.039 --> 00:05:34.380 beautiful thing when people are doing 00:05:34.380 --> 00:05:36.360 awareness practice 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:38.940 you can tell you're in your head or 00:05:38.940 --> 00:05:40.919 you're running a simulation if you get 00:05:40.919 --> 00:05:44.340 this Loop I'm aware that I'm aware now 00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:46.440 what's aware that I'm aware that I'm 00:05:46.440 --> 00:05:50.180 aware and that and there's there's some 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:54.000 versions of that that are less obvious 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.160 but 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.280 um but 00:05:58.280 --> 00:06:02.100 that's a signature of when the mind is 00:06:02.100 --> 00:06:05.280 trying to work with very abstract 00:06:05.280 --> 00:06:07.320 Concepts 00:06:07.320 --> 00:06:10.740 um it it it it gets in this Loop so I 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:13.560 talked about this famous conversation 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.259 that Roger Penrose had with B Allen 00:06:16.259 --> 00:06:17.280 Wallace 00:06:17.280 --> 00:06:19.800 where Roger Penrose was saying well we 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:21.060 know 00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:23.699 the the fundamental origin of the 00:06:23.699 --> 00:06:27.120 universe is the big bang and B Alan 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.819 Wallace says well you can't say that 00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:31.919 because that's a thought that arises in 00:06:31.919 --> 00:06:33.780 Consciousness so you have to first say 00:06:33.780 --> 00:06:35.699 there's Consciousness before you can say 00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:39.000 there was a big thing and they just Loop 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:40.740 over and over and over and over again 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:42.180 and so 00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:42.960 um 00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:46.080 um that's recursivity and a lot of 00:06:46.080 --> 00:06:49.259 meditators if they're working too much 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:53.400 they get stuck with mental phenomenon uh 00:06:53.400 --> 00:06:55.080 they'll get into the witness and then 00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:56.759 wonder how can I see the then the 00:06:56.759 --> 00:06:58.979 witness pops up out and then they wonder 00:06:58.979 --> 00:07:01.560 how can I witness the witness well there 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:04.039 must be a witness behind the witness 00:07:04.039 --> 00:07:07.919 so this is a a strange Loop that the 00:07:07.919 --> 00:07:10.560 Mind does and it doesn't it's not 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:12.539 interesting it doesn't lead anywhere 00:07:12.539 --> 00:07:15.419 what's interesting is to feel the Mind 00:07:15.419 --> 00:07:18.600 pop and and pretend there's a 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:22.740 another viewer here but that's just 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:25.800 um what did I say the other day what's 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:27.479 actually happening is you're just 00:07:27.479 --> 00:07:29.699 witnessing thoughts the thoughts are 00:07:29.699 --> 00:07:31.319 getting more complex 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:33.720 so the first thought is there's a 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.220 witness 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.440 and then this then the second thought is 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:40.259 a witness witnessing a witness so you're 00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:42.660 not really 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:45.300 you you're not taking stances that are 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:47.160 have any more depth it's just what 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:48.780 you're looking at the thought you're 00:07:48.780 --> 00:07:51.780 working with is getting more complex 00:07:51.780 --> 00:07:55.319 you're not somehow accessing deeper and 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.520 deeper levels of awareness your your 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:03.000 your working with a mental phenomenon 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.520 that's increasingly getting increasingly 00:08:05.520 --> 00:08:07.800 complex in this stupid kind of stupid 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.400 way you see the difference yeah 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:13.680 so the construction of the mental model 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.080 is gives you the impression that you're 00:08:16.080 --> 00:08:18.300 ontologically moving through some kind 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:19.680 of 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.440 depth but it's just the the mental 00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:24.120 phenomenon the construction of the 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.220 thought itself has gotten more complex 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:28.819 that's it 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:37.399 that's recursivity it's it's um 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:40.800 it can lead to kind of it can lead to 00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:43.740 psychosis you can see how psychosis is 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:46.380 recursive because I think you're doing 00:08:46.380 --> 00:08:48.480 something and then you think and it just 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.060 goes back and forth like that so 00:08:51.060 --> 00:08:53.100 um that's that's a normal thing for the 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:55.620 mind to do when it's 00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:58.380 confused about the stance it takes when 00:08:58.380 --> 00:09:00.120 it looks at 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.459 thoughts or phenomena in its own mind 00:09:02.459 --> 00:09:06.120 yeah uh Joe or Katie 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.040 that is Katie 00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:11.880 um actually I wanted to ask about uh 00:09:11.880 --> 00:09:14.820 psychosis and recursion 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:16.940 um 00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:20.040 just hearing you guys talk about this 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:21.360 um let me see if I can bring it back 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.339 because I had a way of thinking about it 00:09:23.339 --> 00:09:25.740 that might have been helpful 00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:27.480 um so 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.220 your mind is a reflection of what's 00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:31.440 going on in nature and what you see in 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.060 nature is a reflection of what's going 00:09:33.060 --> 00:09:36.959 on in your mind psychosis Maybe 00:09:36.959 --> 00:09:39.959 could we see it as something like 00:09:39.959 --> 00:09:42.779 the side like the internality the 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:44.580 subjective experience what's going on in 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:49.680 your mind is so powerful that it is 00:09:49.680 --> 00:09:52.980 imposing more and more of itself on on 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:55.860 what it's reflecting to where it like 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:59.160 loses like ground connection and then 00:09:59.160 --> 00:10:01.800 this becomes a recursive Loop because 00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:04.740 your mind is like really powerfully 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:07.980 reflecting itself it sees itself in 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:09.899 everything it sees so the story just 00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:11.940 gets stronger and stronger until blast 00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:14.160 off and now psychotic break was that 00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:15.779 exactly 00:10:15.779 --> 00:10:17.040 yeah 00:10:17.040 --> 00:10:18.779 you know like common 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:21.420 temporary psychosis that people have 00:10:21.420 --> 00:10:23.339 it's their first time meditators 00:10:23.339 --> 00:10:25.980 sometimes they end up having to have 00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:28.440 triage at the end of like a 10-day 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.740 meditation because 00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:33.240 there they 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.519 it's quite common for the mind to do 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.240 this so it's not like a full-blown 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.440 psychosis but 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:42.660 um it's it's it's quite common and it's 00:10:42.660 --> 00:10:45.300 one of these uh you know you can read 00:10:45.300 --> 00:10:46.920 all about that some dangers of 00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:48.480 meditation but 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:49.620 um what would you say is the difference 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:51.980 between like meditators 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:54.360 psychosis and full-blown 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.880 psychosis other than just like 00:10:56.880 --> 00:10:58.920 the practice that the person has with 00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:01.220 working with these things and like 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:04.019 awareness and contextualization 00:11:04.019 --> 00:11:07.019 yeah so I would say you know a lot of 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:10.440 times I I you've heard me say that 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:11.040 um 00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:13.579 we need uh 00:11:13.579 --> 00:11:15.480 psychotechnologies for the kinds of 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.360 Minds we have today 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.399 and uh the kinds of Minds we have today 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.480 do tend to have this loopy thing 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:29.180 um so so there's a lot of Proto protos 00:11:29.180 --> 00:11:32.339 you know like Ian the Gilchrist and and 00:11:32.339 --> 00:11:34.680 you know so there's so 00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:36.600 um and that's because so much of our 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:38.700 experience is uh is virtual this 00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:40.680 experience will happen we talked about 00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:43.019 this last time we have to do a lot of 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:44.940 work to 00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:47.339 um stimulate that this is real and not 00:11:47.339 --> 00:11:49.980 to be skeptical about it uh you know the 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:52.440 technology makes it easy 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:54.839 um but but 00:11:54.839 --> 00:11:56.959 um 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.860 but full-blown psychosis I don't know I 00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:03.180 mean 00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:03.839 um 00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:05.220 the 00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:07.680 the story I like to tell with about my 00:12:07.680 --> 00:12:09.720 friend who has full-blown psychosis he 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:11.700 had a breakdown here he lives in Germany 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:13.740 is 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:14.640 um 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:17.279 he he had someone bring him here because 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.620 he was having a breakdown and he was 00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:22.260 afraid that he was going to end up in a 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:24.420 mental institution in the U.S and that 00:12:24.420 --> 00:12:26.339 they were going to give him drugs that 00:12:26.339 --> 00:12:27.839 had happened to him before and he wanted 00:12:27.839 --> 00:12:29.940 to get home because he has a great uh 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:32.519 psychiatrist he works with that home 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:36.000 so he came here and uh someone brought 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.040 him here and he just had enough presence 00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:40.980 of mind to say promise me you'll get me 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:43.740 on that plane no matter what I do or say 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:47.339 because right because he knew that it 00:12:47.339 --> 00:12:49.019 could get really weird and he could 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:52.980 pretend you know and so I was having a 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:54.660 retreat that weekend and all these 00:12:54.660 --> 00:12:57.120 people were coming over and for the 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.000 first two days I was with him and worked 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.279 with him and then I said you know these 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:03.300 people are going to come over and I'm 00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:04.800 not going to be able to like pay 00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:06.899 attention to you so if you need anything 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:10.139 like food or water he was staying in a 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:12.779 basement apartment or anything just ask 00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:15.839 me and then two days later he was coming 00:13:15.839 --> 00:13:17.639 up and I was coming down we were just 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.860 crossing and he stopped he said you know 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.839 all I've been thinking about for the 00:13:24.839 --> 00:13:27.000 last two days is what did you mean by 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.040 food and what did you mean by water you 00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:32.040 thought it was cold for something and it 00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:34.339 was just like 00:13:34.339 --> 00:13:37.380 yeah swimming in his own mind trying to 00:13:37.380 --> 00:13:40.440 figure out what it was code for by 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.320 swimming in his own mind right 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.440 um so and then I promised him that I'm 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.079 always only talking about food and water 00:13:49.079 --> 00:13:53.820 so uh so yeah it's this derealization of 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:55.740 the 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:57.959 the language and the thought loses 00:13:57.959 --> 00:14:00.300 contact with the signifiers in the real 00:14:00.300 --> 00:14:02.279 world and if you're talking about 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.860 witnessing awareness 00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:08.220 that already is kind of losing contact 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:10.680 with signifiers in the in the real world 00:14:10.680 --> 00:14:12.720 so 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:16.200 um there's something something like that 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.279 um 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.880 Construction 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:25.579 yeah so 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:28.320 um these are all uh 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:29.040 um 00:14:29.040 --> 00:14:32.160 parts of this this module these 00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:34.399 questions 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:44.220 uh maybe it's a good time to share this 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:46.680 slide again I think because of what you 00:14:46.680 --> 00:14:48.540 just asked 00:14:48.540 --> 00:14:50.339 um 00:14:50.339 --> 00:14:51.839 and 00:14:51.839 --> 00:14:53.839 um 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.940 what you will notice so as people we can 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.420 make it more like cognitive science 00:14:59.420 --> 00:15:01.079 uh 00:15:01.079 --> 00:15:04.880 and as people 00:15:04.920 --> 00:15:07.680 somebody get too many things 00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:11.339 hide accordingly videos okay so as 00:15:11.339 --> 00:15:12.600 people 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:14.880 um go on this journey of metacognition 00:15:14.880 --> 00:15:18.660 let's say or you know at first there's 00:15:18.660 --> 00:15:21.720 an automaticity to things you're either 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.660 very objective or you're very subjective 00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:27.839 people start off quite objective 00:15:27.839 --> 00:15:32.699 then early on in life uh you learn 00:15:32.699 --> 00:15:35.459 um that you know you have start to have 00:15:35.459 --> 00:15:38.339 an interior you're aware of your 00:15:38.339 --> 00:15:41.220 interiority so you learn to say please 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:44.360 and you learn you know different 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.579 uh you're not so automatic 00:15:47.579 --> 00:15:49.260 um and then you spend a lot of time with 00:15:49.260 --> 00:15:51.660 the playground is very objective and 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:54.720 then you might then get to high school 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.699 and you start having philosophical 00:15:56.699 --> 00:15:59.459 questions and then in high school it's 00:15:59.459 --> 00:16:01.320 quite often for you know there's a 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.839 window for psychosis that happens I 00:16:03.839 --> 00:16:05.760 think from something like 00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:08.519 18 to 32 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.860 um and people spend a lot of time in 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.899 this objective realm 00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.899 um and watching their subjectivity and 00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:17.880 this is when we take drugs and we play 00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:19.820 with the Psychedelic self 00:16:19.820 --> 00:16:22.560 and we 00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:25.500 um this is modern people uh if you're a 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.899 rural person you spend a lot more time 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:29.459 in the objective world because you have 00:16:29.459 --> 00:16:32.760 those kinds of tasks to do right but 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:35.220 um today's people they and then your 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:38.279 psyche starts to become transparent if 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.620 you meditate and ask these questions you 00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:43.259 spend a lot of time here so there's a 00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:46.380 long period of time in the modern world 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:49.019 today where people spend a lot of time 00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:52.500 you know investigating trauma and all 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:54.899 these past lives and all this stuff is 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:56.880 all subjective phenomenon that they're 00:16:56.880 --> 00:16:59.940 very interested in then you might peek 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.880 over here and have a kind of uh Peak 00:17:02.880 --> 00:17:05.579 experience in nature 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:09.780 and then what happens over time in my 00:17:09.780 --> 00:17:13.079 opinion on the path or is that you 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.000 eventually 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.640 um work your way toward 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.939 instead of so much oscillation 00:17:20.939 --> 00:17:22.980 um you work your way towards like this 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:25.020 could be like you discovering your body 00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:27.480 like we do in this course then you find 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.120 out well a lot of this was simulation 00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:33.120 actually my body lives in the real world 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:36.600 it has an animal nature 00:17:36.600 --> 00:17:40.500 um I can I can start seeing some of that 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.140 um myself then becomes transparent as 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:45.840 phenomenon in my mind and then pretty 00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:49.140 soon the oscillation stops 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:51.780 and you have what verbat you've got 00:17:51.780 --> 00:17:52.760 trans 00:17:52.760 --> 00:17:55.320 objective or what of all these words you 00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:57.480 use and then and when the oscillation 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:02.780 stops you get this sense that 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.220 um so this is very cruel right it's a 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.679 very crude uh uh 00:18:07.679 --> 00:18:10.559 um diagram but 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.840 it is this kind of Journey that people 00:18:12.840 --> 00:18:15.480 people have and when the oscillation 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.600 stops life becomes a whole lot simpler 00:18:18.600 --> 00:18:21.539 because it's not like you're just 00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:24.900 objective like you were before 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.380 but you can start working with the world 00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:31.320 in a much simpler way 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:33.960 um so instead of going in my mind to see 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.660 what the feedback loop of an action is I 00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.280 just take the action 00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:41.580 as mindfully as I can and I see 00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:45.059 what the consequences so I start to work 00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:46.620 with 00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:49.559 what would seem you know this is the end 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.240 of the Taoist you know you go back into 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.820 the marketplace and you look like 00:18:53.820 --> 00:18:55.799 someone who's just interested in the 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.900 world again you don't have such a 00:18:57.900 --> 00:18:59.880 complicated psyche you don't have so 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.820 much going on but it's it's not the same 00:19:02.820 --> 00:19:04.799 as when you started out and didn't 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.900 understand that you had emotions and 00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:08.700 didn't understand the complexity of your 00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:11.460 mind it's it's beyond it's beyond that 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:13.559 so 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.400 um there is there is uh that's that's 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.440 one path 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:20.480 um of course there's different 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.799 traditions and some of the Traditions 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.539 you end up 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:25.559 um 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.620 um in what I would call uh mental 00:19:28.620 --> 00:19:31.140 phenomenon quite heavily 00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:34.320 um so the the uh 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:35.160 um 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.760 there's there's the class the cultures 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:40.919 where the Priestly classes didn't have 00:19:40.919 --> 00:19:43.740 to do work or touch the soil they they 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:47.340 ended up with uh religions where you 00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:49.260 could have all kinds of fantasies about 00:19:49.260 --> 00:19:52.919 that it's all just Lila and these 00:19:52.919 --> 00:19:54.780 suffering's not real the self is not 00:19:54.780 --> 00:19:58.020 real to me that's all that's all mental 00:19:58.020 --> 00:20:00.539 phenomenon but that's you know that's 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.360 that's from this perspective 00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:07.140 um so this this movement uh perhaps is 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:09.539 actually a movement of the human species 00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:12.720 itself we're all kind of you know in 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.559 this virtual 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:17.660 subjective 00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:20.760 subjective uh or fascinated with this 00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:23.400 subjective aspect 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.220 um of experience right now 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:30.059 not Elon Musk so much but most most 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.120 people that in our in our 00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:34.740 communities 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.220 yeah 00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:56.780 okay are we ready for Breakout 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.039 yeah 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.380 yes okay so I'm gonna put this in the 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:08.400 chat 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.380 um I'm not sure if you can see that it 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.260 it when you're in the breakout room so 00:21:13.260 --> 00:21:15.480 maybe just 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:16.140 um 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:19.320 memorize this we're gonna use these two 00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:21.299 different definitions we started with 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:23.580 them a little bit last time 00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:27.960 and so young Jang chosen gays and this 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.700 little both lines when we said oh it's a 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.840 great little book 00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:34.020 she she uh 00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:36.840 defines mindfulness at the beginning and 00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:39.539 this is a very typical definition of 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:41.159 mindfulness when it's just like 00:21:41.159 --> 00:21:44.039 mindfulness practice you know like at 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:46.140 the center for mindfulness training in 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:48.240 Massachusetts 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.880 um she says mindfulness is deliberately 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.820 paying full attention 00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:57.059 to what is happening around you and 00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:02.880 within you in your body heart and mind 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.980 okay so all these little words are 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:07.260 important 00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:10.620 and I want to say what 00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:14.039 I'm interested in is modifying that 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:16.980 we've we've said this in many different 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:18.900 ways 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:20.700 um 00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:24.120 with respect to not having the isolation 00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:26.460 so see there's an oscillation pays full 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:28.020 attention to what's happening around you 00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:32.280 and in you right so and deliberately 00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:34.380 paying full attention these are all 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:36.720 trigger words for me okay so think about 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:38.700 that and I want to suggest what we 00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:41.400 should teach for the kinds of body Minds 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.220 we have today and this challenges we 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:48.600 face today is attending to what is 00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:50.780 happening around you 00:22:50.780 --> 00:22:54.000 with your body heart 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.400 and mind 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.900 so let's just uh have a conversation on 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:02.880 um 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.220 what what does that what do the two 00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:07.440 modes that just so their instructions 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.320 that create a dispositional state right 00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:11.880 the first one 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.280 creates a state where you're more likely 00:23:14.280 --> 00:23:16.919 to do this and less likely to do that 00:23:16.919 --> 00:23:18.600 what are the differences in the 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:19.980 instructions 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.200 what are the pitfalls and challenges and 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.600 what are the perhaps 00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:25.380 um 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:28.440 what is missing in the second one 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.260 um if if you if you feel that 00:23:31.260 --> 00:23:34.080 something's missing in the second 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.960 um and are are they stages like just 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.700 talk about 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.659 um 00:23:39.659 --> 00:23:43.860 talk about these these two moves and 00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:46.860 um I'm going to create breakout rooms 00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:49.679 we're going to go 00:23:49.679 --> 00:23:52.400 um let's see 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.059 yeah we'll have three or four 00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:59.400 uh I don't want let's see that's fine 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.120 and we're gonna go for 00:24:03.120 --> 00:24:05.900 um 30 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.419 let's see 33 minutes 00:24:09.419 --> 00:24:11.220 which will bring us to the top of the 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.580 hour enjoy your conversation and enjoy 00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:17.240 your company 00:24:32.159 --> 00:24:35.000 foreign 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.020 they are I'll put it in the chat 00:24:55.020 --> 00:24:58.220 they're going to 00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:01.100 talk about the different 00:25:01.100 --> 00:25:03.840 definitions of mindfulness here and 00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:05.820 reflexive awareness I think you heard us 00:25:05.820 --> 00:25:08.880 talk about this before yes yes yes so 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.740 we'll see what they have to say 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:13.620 and by the way I didn't Advance on the 00:25:13.620 --> 00:25:15.539 text these past couple of weeks because 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:17.820 I've been preparing for this but I'm 00:25:17.820 --> 00:25:20.280 going back once this is over and I'm 00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:24.120 back I'm gonna dive into the dad fly 00:25:24.120 --> 00:25:26.600 awesome 00:25:27.419 --> 00:25:30.000 I like that like that 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.600 no scrunched up faces this time 00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:38.000 it's a darn well it's a ray comes back 00:25:40.760 --> 00:25:43.799 I actually did the homework too I wrote 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.220 some things 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.840 and I asked chat GPT but I didn't like 00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:51.600 the answer was kind of bland so thank 00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:52.980 you 00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:55.860 they're playing with the thing all day 00:25:55.860 --> 00:25:58.040 uh 00:25:58.040 --> 00:26:01.180 [Music] 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:06.900 yes Anna Maslow Van Der Blanc hello 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:10.159 bonita Roy 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.620 I've got a question this was amazing I 00:26:13.620 --> 00:26:15.539 was in the room with Katie and John and 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:20.279 a client and that was wonderful and 00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.100 um I was listening yesterday to the 00:26:23.100 --> 00:26:25.080 recap where and made Elena were there 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:26.940 and Katie were there and Sam was there 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:30.179 and yeah and Samuel was there and so 00:26:30.179 --> 00:26:32.220 everyone was there almost but it was it 00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:36.020 was lovely and I was wondering 00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:39.659 hard life yes and I had an inquiry 00:26:39.659 --> 00:26:42.600 around the sensory motor perception and 00:26:42.600 --> 00:26:44.460 the virtual perception and the 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:46.620 distinction between the psyche so you 00:26:46.620 --> 00:26:49.500 and ego and the mind Alo Centric 00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:51.600 because what hit me almost like a 00:26:51.600 --> 00:26:54.120 thunderbolt was the mind is that like 00:26:54.120 --> 00:26:57.360 the entry point and it's like is that 00:26:57.360 --> 00:26:59.940 The Sweet Spot 00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:05.179 okay well here's the thing 00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:07.740 I just picked up a couple of things you 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:08.659 said 00:27:08.659 --> 00:27:11.400 because the question is too big and 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.419 it'll it'll come back around 00:27:15.419 --> 00:27:16.559 um 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:22.159 so this second thing uh 00:27:22.159 --> 00:27:26.960 attend to what is around you 00:27:27.360 --> 00:27:30.840 already puts you in an allocentric uh 00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:35.400 frame right whereas pay attention to 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.279 um what is in your you know what is 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:41.460 around you and in your own experience 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:42.179 um 00:27:42.179 --> 00:27:46.260 has more of an egocentric frame so uh 00:27:46.260 --> 00:27:48.779 attend to what is what is around you is 00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:51.419 already allocentric 00:27:51.419 --> 00:27:54.900 and not egocentric 00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.659 so that's one thing and what else did 00:27:57.659 --> 00:28:00.240 you say so what's The Sweet Spot 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.580 yeah because I was wondering about 00:28:02.580 --> 00:28:05.220 because you made a distinction around me 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.559 because I I'm I'm not sure about it so 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.299 that's why I want to ask and it wasn't a 00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:11.820 question so here I go into a question so 00:28:11.820 --> 00:28:15.299 is a sensory motor perception what was 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.100 the evolutionist virtual perception 00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:19.140 evolution of that or is it the opposite 00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:22.380 way oh okay 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:25.100 so 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:32.659 um no sensory motor is is 00:28:35.580 --> 00:28:38.159 sensory motor is prior to Virtual 00:28:38.159 --> 00:28:40.320 perception we can see that in the 00:28:40.320 --> 00:28:43.080 evolutionary record the question then 00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:45.600 becomes what is prior to sensory motor 00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:48.600 perception 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.659 um we didn't talk about that you're 00:28:51.659 --> 00:28:54.240 going to get into 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:58.559 um where physics and biology interface 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.360 um but I wouldn't call that virtual 00:29:02.360 --> 00:29:05.760 I would call that 00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:08.460 um I mean I'm building oath it's theory 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:12.120 around action protocols but but 00:29:12.120 --> 00:29:13.200 um 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.419 yeah we have sensory motive perception 00:29:15.419 --> 00:29:18.779 and then we virtualize it into and even 00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:21.779 animals have virtual perception right at 00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:23.460 a certain at a certain 00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:25.919 uh in a certain place in The 00:29:25.919 --> 00:29:28.940 evolutionary history 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:34.320 so virtual perception comes from sensory 00:29:34.320 --> 00:29:36.299 motive perception which is sensory motor 00:29:36.299 --> 00:29:38.880 perception come from I guess that's what 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.380 you're asking 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.700 we have to ask Richmond 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.880 no it comes from I mean 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.539 um when we get there we have to have do 00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:54.840 some speculative philosophy right 00:29:54.840 --> 00:29:58.799 um so but there's a lot are we doing 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.740 Plumbing there yes when we uh do 00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:03.960 speculative philosophy in order for us 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.679 to both uh hold that in our jamboard we 00:30:07.679 --> 00:30:11.179 will be doing uh simulating forming so 00:30:11.179 --> 00:30:14.159 uh which doesn't mean it doesn't get you 00:30:14.159 --> 00:30:17.880 to the right place because we have this 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.380 thing that we can do which is called 00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:21.720 Pure abstractions that we think of these 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:24.360 things because they happen to be real 00:30:24.360 --> 00:30:26.399 they're they're not there at the same 00:30:26.399 --> 00:30:27.840 time 00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.120 um if you listen to Sawyer's talk with 00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:31.140 me 00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:34.020 he said that he said 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:35.760 I don't know if I agreed this but he 00:30:35.760 --> 00:30:37.260 said you know people have always been 00:30:37.260 --> 00:30:40.080 suspicious oh no this is what he said he 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:44.279 said people use this term God 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:46.200 um because it's the best way they can 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:49.919 interpret the aggregor of of humans or 00:30:49.919 --> 00:30:52.080 something like that but 00:30:52.080 --> 00:30:54.299 yeah so that would bring us if we're 00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:56.299 trying to ask the question 00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:01.140 what is the book prior to sensory mode 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:03.000 of perception 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.640 we'll try to we'll try to answer some of 00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.100 this in the fall like the origins of the 00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:11.520 human itself or the origins of life but 00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:15.600 this is now speculative we can't 00:31:15.600 --> 00:31:18.120 I can see that an animal 00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:20.880 has abstractions and I can see that pure 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.120 abstractions work in the world I can't 00:31:24.120 --> 00:31:27.539 I I we have to run simulations to 00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:30.299 inquire about these speculative things 00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.399 but 00:31:32.399 --> 00:31:33.299 um 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.200 the hook we have is that that 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.179 some of the ideas we're working with 00:31:39.179 --> 00:31:40.919 could be 00:31:40.919 --> 00:31:45.720 real features of the world uh if because 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.419 we know that pure abstractions exist in 00:31:48.419 --> 00:31:50.279 the world they're not there at the same 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:51.659 time blah blah blah all the stuff we 00:31:51.659 --> 00:31:54.059 said in the last module that I I know 00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:55.919 sounds like woo-woo speech if we haven't 00:31:55.919 --> 00:31:58.080 been there but 00:31:58.080 --> 00:32:00.720 um but I would not say that virtual 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.820 perceptions as we've described them 00:32:02.820 --> 00:32:06.840 comes before such reloaded perceptions 00:32:06.840 --> 00:32:10.860 they wouldn't be sensory motor 00:32:10.860 --> 00:32:11.520 um 00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:14.039 this is where Greg Enriquez will talk 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.740 about what we call Century Motors animal 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:20.659 mind and then he says there's there's 00:32:20.659 --> 00:32:24.059 then he goes down to information so you 00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:26.159 can already feel that 00:32:26.159 --> 00:32:28.860 it's a concept what is information right 00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:31.440 information Theory so what we're going 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.039 to do there is an interesting question 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:35.840 um 00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:39.360 that hopefully will get to in the fall 00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:42.799 so that's an interesting question 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.539 what is before sensory motive sensory 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:47.340 motor we would say it goes all the way 00:32:47.340 --> 00:32:50.640 down through all of life 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.659 um 00:32:51.659 --> 00:32:54.240 and then there's things that beg the 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.700 question like viruses these things that 00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:59.820 are like you can't tell you know the 00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:02.120 category living or non-living gets very 00:33:02.120 --> 00:33:05.340 it's very weird there 00:33:05.340 --> 00:33:08.179 um but 00:33:08.580 --> 00:33:13.019 maybe by the time in September uh you 00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:17.519 will have solved it just a lot of work 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.220 what were you gonna say Sandra it's all 00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:23.640 Pond life it's all pawns like well I'm 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:25.860 going to argue it's all kind of like 00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:27.960 Bond life but at a certain point it 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:31.019 becomes more metaphorical than real 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:33.360 um and I'm writing I'm trying to write 00:33:33.360 --> 00:33:37.919 an article on plant life but 00:33:37.919 --> 00:33:40.519 yeah 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.679 um 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:47.580 there's so much more I want to ask but 00:33:47.580 --> 00:33:50.220 I'm gonna wait watch and wonder and who 00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.140 were you with just Katie because John 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.320 was kind of yeah sorry about that I 00:33:55.320 --> 00:33:58.019 should have put no that was perfect and 00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:00.059 we had a computer joining us and we had 00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:01.980 John's client joining us so it's all 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:02.720 good 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.700 all right cool cool thanks thanks bunny 00:34:36.419 --> 00:34:38.700 hmm 00:34:38.700 --> 00:34:41.159 I really liked um 00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.300 the way that our group was um focusing 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:47.159 we were noticing just differences in how 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.440 we we felt 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.960 um with like the word the words like 00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.359 deliberately and paying which kind of 00:34:54.359 --> 00:34:57.020 imply like a 00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:59.820 transactional relationship and 00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:02.940 um we noticed how the the mindfulness 00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:04.619 instructions kind of set up a 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:06.420 separateness or like a duality 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:10.920 ironically and then the um 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.000 the reflexive instructions 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.780 set up more of a 00:35:17.780 --> 00:35:21.359 relational participatory 00:35:21.359 --> 00:35:23.400 um frame 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.020 and 00:35:25.020 --> 00:35:26.700 um one other thing I'll throw in we had 00:35:26.700 --> 00:35:28.920 a lot of interesting conversations about 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.720 um or I was thinking I thought it was 00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:31.920 interesting about like the word 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.579 attention and like this hence 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:37.800 which has to do with like 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.859 in different languages like hanging or 00:35:40.859 --> 00:35:43.680 Tendencies or 00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:46.560 um tenderness or 00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:47.880 um 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:51.180 waiting in a town just all kinds of 00:35:51.180 --> 00:35:52.260 things about 00:35:52.260 --> 00:35:55.380 um like literal physical positioning in 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:56.520 a web 00:35:56.520 --> 00:35:58.740 um we talked about like the game cat's 00:35:58.740 --> 00:36:01.740 cradle and like moving strings around 00:36:01.740 --> 00:36:04.560 um and then um we also brought up like 00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:06.359 when you're underwater and you can kind 00:36:06.359 --> 00:36:08.820 of feel the physical position of things 00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:10.260 even if you don't have any other sense 00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:12.540 because the water moves 00:36:12.540 --> 00:36:17.540 um so I'll just throw that into the soup 00:37:15.180 --> 00:37:18.960 one question I had though um in the 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.500 mindfulness instructions it had um 00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:24.359 both like what's happening around you 00:37:24.359 --> 00:37:26.099 and within you 00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:30.000 and in the um reflexive awareness it was 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.920 just about what's happening around 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:36.060 and I was curious why not within you 00:37:36.060 --> 00:37:37.980 also 00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:41.579 okay so that's a big Crux of the matter 00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:43.700 um 00:37:45.660 --> 00:37:48.480 so 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.660 um 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.740 so I think it's easier to 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:08.760 um 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.579 advocate for the reflexive awareness if 00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:14.940 you start with a person who's not 00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:17.660 already kind of uh 00:38:17.660 --> 00:38:21.000 modernized so let's pretend and then 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.520 we'll answer the question in reality so 00:38:23.520 --> 00:38:24.960 for example 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.240 it's I use I know I use the same 00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:28.920 examples over and over because it's easy 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.780 to remember 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:35.160 um you have little little Johnny 00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:37.680 you see something it gets all excited he 00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:40.859 jumps up and down and he hits your vase 00:38:40.859 --> 00:38:44.460 right and he breaks your precious face 00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:47.760 and you have two choices you can 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.660 point at him and say why did you do that 00:38:51.660 --> 00:38:54.780 and that has him attend to his interior 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:58.440 space okay and when Johnny's really 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.780 young he doesn't even know what that 00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:03.359 word means 00:39:03.359 --> 00:39:06.000 um and you see kids like they just their 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.440 eyes go like this they don't know what 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.880 the word means but you do it enough 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.940 times and this builds the ego at the 00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.760 Fred would call the superego inside your 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:19.220 psyche this is how it gets constructed 00:39:19.859 --> 00:39:22.020 so then once you have a superego you can 00:39:22.020 --> 00:39:25.020 construct all kinds of things there 00:39:25.020 --> 00:39:27.720 but what if instead when that happened I 00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:32.160 go oh what happens 00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:35.240 let's look 00:39:35.640 --> 00:39:38.160 well now we're going to attend to cause 00:39:38.160 --> 00:39:40.740 and effect and what happens 00:39:40.740 --> 00:39:43.020 and 00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:45.180 um 00:39:45.180 --> 00:39:47.160 so 00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:49.220 um 00:39:49.740 --> 00:39:52.619 if you're 00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:56.520 not polluted okay so this is not real 00:39:56.520 --> 00:39:59.280 because everybody's kind of polluted in 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.660 a way 00:40:00.660 --> 00:40:01.700 um 00:40:01.700 --> 00:40:06.960 then attending to the real world 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.579 where'd they go 00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.400 are they still here 00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.859 oh 00:40:13.859 --> 00:40:16.079 I'll come back to it if they come back 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.660 attending to the real world 00:40:18.660 --> 00:40:21.859 is the perfect equation because 00:40:21.859 --> 00:40:25.079 the real world is a perfect reflection 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:29.480 of your interior state 00:40:30.359 --> 00:40:33.079 get it 00:40:34.020 --> 00:40:36.300 and if you're polluted in your interior 00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:38.579 State then your interactions with the 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:40.440 world will be polluted 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:43.140 so if you could you can fix it on that 00:40:43.140 --> 00:40:44.640 side of the equation 00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:46.560 that's my point 00:40:46.560 --> 00:40:50.300 this is like the grade I have 00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:52.619 now the problem with the second 00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:54.599 definition 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.300 is people have to care 00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:59.940 you have to give a about the world 00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:03.320 or else there's no Leverage 00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.540 attend to what I can't even notice what 00:41:06.540 --> 00:41:08.099 is needed here 00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:12.619 parents can't even notice what's needed 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:20.420 then that's what's lost 00:41:31.140 --> 00:41:36.420 so we go to intentional attention 00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:38.339 practice 00:41:38.339 --> 00:41:40.500 to control the attention 00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:42.720 intentionally 00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:46.619 somewhat recursive what's controlling it 00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:48.300 it's all mental 00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:52.560 whereas if you care for things 00:41:52.560 --> 00:41:55.440 your attention will be controlled and 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:59.960 focused so it's heart based 00:42:00.060 --> 00:42:02.940 when you care for something you pay 00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:05.780 attention 00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:11.300 it's not rocket science 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:20.720 and people just don't care 00:42:26.220 --> 00:42:29.339 or don't know how to care 00:42:29.339 --> 00:42:31.619 they're so separated from even their own 00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:32.760 kids 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:36.060 and their work their Works jobs 00:42:36.060 --> 00:42:38.700 it's hard to care people don't care 00:42:38.700 --> 00:42:40.859 remember we did the communal self 00:42:40.859 --> 00:42:43.619 there's four dimensions of care and 00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:47.160 there is no non-recipical care a mutual 00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:50.640 uh uh deep mutuality anymore we don't 00:42:50.640 --> 00:42:53.000 care 00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:56.099 so that's the hook in the second one and 00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:58.260 it's it's it's it's the hook in its 00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:01.160 Achilles heel 00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:07.380 yeah nothing you know 00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:09.599 um I always put a g in your name and 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.839 your name doesn't have a jig nope no G 00:43:12.839 --> 00:43:17.160 not it's Natalie yeah I always say 00:43:17.160 --> 00:43:20.830 Magdalena it's your Catholic I know 00:43:20.830 --> 00:43:22.200 [Music] 00:43:22.200 --> 00:43:23.400 um 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.760 you can just call me mad I've earned it 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:27.619 um 00:43:27.619 --> 00:43:29.700 okay Maddie 00:43:29.700 --> 00:43:33.420 all right so if one of the affects 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:35.720 streams I mean 00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:39.780 subcognitive is is is care yeah you know 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:44.880 it's distinct from last place each you 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:48.800 know fear rage grief Etc yes 00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.800 then we're hardwired to care as mammals 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:53.900 yes 00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:57.300 and so it's not that we don't care 00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:01.020 I think that we're always caring but I 00:44:01.020 --> 00:44:03.000 think that there is kind of a 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.119 procrustian bed of logic that keeps 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.720 chopping off the possibility of caring 00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:11.819 or worse than that commodifying it 00:44:11.819 --> 00:44:15.060 because it's because it's hardwired it's 00:44:15.060 --> 00:44:17.700 very easy to financialize 00:44:17.700 --> 00:44:19.800 right it's those four domains of care 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.859 but remember what the care is there's 00:44:22.859 --> 00:44:27.240 care and then there's the there's it's 00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:30.240 in the connection stream and we don't 00:44:30.240 --> 00:44:34.859 care because we don't feel connected 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.079 the mind is not connected to the body 00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.960 the body's not connected to Nature 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.180 so this these things go 00:44:45.180 --> 00:44:48.119 go hand in hand 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:50.460 okay salt 00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:53.940 I had the big mic drop and you guys 00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:56.540 weren't here 00:44:57.780 --> 00:44:59.819 I know we lost internet connection and 00:44:59.819 --> 00:45:01.500 jolt's in the bathroom right now 00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.540 oh 00:45:03.540 --> 00:45:05.579 just a second 00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:08.760 we're excited about it though 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:12.839 so so I would argue 00:45:12.839 --> 00:45:14.940 I would argue that whether it's because 00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:17.400 it's been commodified out of us or this 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.640 or that what the source is yes it's 00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:23.400 we're hardwired it's latent in US it 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:27.720 can't possibly not be latent in us but 00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:29.700 um 00:45:29.700 --> 00:45:34.140 yeah the point is is that okay so did 00:45:34.140 --> 00:45:35.940 you hear my story about the kid in the 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:38.180 vase 00:45:39.200 --> 00:45:42.839 we just like lost connection right there 00:45:42.839 --> 00:45:45.540 so the kid broke the vase and then the 00:45:45.540 --> 00:45:47.040 mom's like why did you do that and he's 00:45:47.040 --> 00:45:48.599 like oh my God like I don't even know 00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.260 what myself 00:45:51.540 --> 00:45:55.800 this this is puts a super ego on the kid 00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.839 this is beginning of the construction of 00:45:57.839 --> 00:46:01.079 a uh super Evo and then once you have a 00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.060 super ego you can tie all kinds of stuff 00:46:03.060 --> 00:46:06.839 on it but what if you said instead oh 00:46:06.839 --> 00:46:09.960 wow what happened 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.260 right let's attend to the world what 00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:16.319 happened positive facts have a 00:46:16.319 --> 00:46:19.079 conversation around it pick it up oh you 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.240 know or when they get hurt you know 00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:24.540 let's let's attend to it pick it up it's 00:46:24.540 --> 00:46:27.000 always a responses to attend to 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:28.680 something 00:46:28.680 --> 00:46:30.720 um then this bill Builds an allocentric 00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:32.720 and then I said 00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:35.880 allocentric yeah so Allison this means 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.680 you're involved in the world you don't 00:46:37.680 --> 00:46:39.780 reference experience relative to 00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:43.079 yourself which is egocentric you 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:45.300 reference the world with 00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:48.079 with you know relative to the world 00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:52.920 ontological design the thing is broken 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.740 um so it's just it's it references the 00:46:55.740 --> 00:46:59.160 state of things in relationship to other 00:46:59.160 --> 00:47:02.579 the state of things their egocentric 00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:04.859 means you're positive and negatively 00:47:04.859 --> 00:47:06.900 balancing experience with reference to 00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:09.000 yourself 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:09.660 um 00:47:09.660 --> 00:47:12.839 so here's the thing and then I said well 00:47:12.839 --> 00:47:15.660 my reflexive awareness 00:47:15.660 --> 00:47:18.839 the problem with this is we don't know 00:47:18.839 --> 00:47:21.780 how to attend two things 00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:25.079 we don't notice what things need parents 00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.740 don't even notice what their kids need 00:47:28.740 --> 00:47:32.420 and so the 00:47:32.420 --> 00:47:37.940 mindfulness can help you 00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.540 Focus your attention right but the 00:47:42.540 --> 00:47:45.180 reason why we need intentional design to 00:47:45.180 --> 00:47:47.220 discipline our attention 00:47:47.220 --> 00:47:49.980 whereas in reflexive awareness your 00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:52.859 attention is focused focused because you 00:47:52.859 --> 00:47:54.060 care 00:47:54.060 --> 00:47:57.000 if you care about things you get really 00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.380 focused 00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:02.520 and basically we just don't care 00:48:02.520 --> 00:48:05.160 we don't care about anything 00:48:05.160 --> 00:48:07.859 you think about a lot of things but we 00:48:07.859 --> 00:48:10.500 don't care about things and hence we 00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.020 don't attend to things hence our 00:48:13.020 --> 00:48:14.819 attention 00:48:14.819 --> 00:48:16.200 is 00:48:16.200 --> 00:48:18.960 not there so then we have to go to these 00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:21.300 psycho Technologies to concentrate our 00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:23.760 attention through mental discipline but 00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:25.800 if we cared about things 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:28.140 you would have 00:48:28.140 --> 00:48:30.839 skillful attention 00:48:30.839 --> 00:48:32.640 and that's the big difference between 00:48:32.640 --> 00:48:35.180 the two 00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:36.900 now what about 00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:38.460 um 00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:40.440 the kid just caring about the kid 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:44.160 learning what his emotions are and how 00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:46.920 to soothe them Etc like 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:49.140 Okay so 00:48:49.140 --> 00:48:51.960 so we talked about this I'll say it 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.780 again I just feel bad that I'm like oh 00:48:54.780 --> 00:48:57.619 sorry I only have five things 00:48:57.619 --> 00:49:00.180 just like fast forward and we'll no no 00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:01.680 no 00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:02.780 [Applause] 00:49:02.780 --> 00:49:06.420 so it's good that kids learn language to 00:49:06.420 --> 00:49:09.480 identify their emotions 00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:12.420 but of course we know that that words 00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:14.940 there's many many many many more 00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:17.280 dispositional States than the words for 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.040 them and the problem with the way we 00:49:20.040 --> 00:49:22.680 raise our kids is we ask them to use 00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:25.020 their words really fast you know like 00:49:25.020 --> 00:49:26.880 the kids getting all and they use your 00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:28.980 words well the kid 00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:31.920 learns against Crime so he uses this 00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.980 word I'm sad or something but many times 00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:36.660 they're not sad when they're crying I 00:49:36.660 --> 00:49:38.220 cry all the time when I'm not sad I'm 00:49:38.220 --> 00:49:39.599 just overwhelmed 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:45.119 and so I meet young men usually who in 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.280 their uh late 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.480 20s or early 20s realize that they've 00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.819 been using words but they never realize 00:49:53.819 --> 00:49:57.079 that words are supposed to point to 00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.700 biomarkers what their body feels like 00:49:59.700 --> 00:50:02.400 because we have a language Instinct so 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.040 kids learn the language that is relevant 00:50:05.040 --> 00:50:06.720 to certain socially appropriate 00:50:06.720 --> 00:50:09.660 situations and never learn that they're 00:50:09.660 --> 00:50:13.140 supposed to refer to us or signify 00:50:13.140 --> 00:50:15.720 something that's happening in their body 00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:20.280 and what happens in their body is is 00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.920 there's you know the one word sad and 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:26.339 sad there's it doesn't it doesn't 00:50:26.339 --> 00:50:29.280 represent the range of things we use 00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.040 that word for so basically we're just 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:34.740 all artistic that way we are autistic 00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:37.140 people can learn how to use words that 00:50:37.140 --> 00:50:39.780 have emotional reference because they 00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:43.619 learn what socially uh relevant but they 00:50:43.619 --> 00:50:46.619 do not have the connection between the 00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.900 word and the lived experience 00:50:48.900 --> 00:50:50.700 so 00:50:50.700 --> 00:50:53.220 so we're too fast to go into the mental 00:50:53.220 --> 00:50:55.800 the mental the mental the mental and you 00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:58.140 know I talked about lots of things care 00:50:58.140 --> 00:51:00.359 abstractions and mental and simulating 00:51:00.359 --> 00:51:03.180 all this stuff is really cool but that 00:51:03.180 --> 00:51:06.420 mental is not we don't we we don't 00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:09.839 integrate the body and then we're pretty 00:51:09.839 --> 00:51:11.940 good at liberating the mind and some of 00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:13.619 these psycho Technologies but they don't 00:51:13.619 --> 00:51:16.559 integrate the body so 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.680 um we need to to 00:51:19.680 --> 00:51:21.839 seriously consider 00:51:21.839 --> 00:51:23.819 uh 00:51:23.819 --> 00:51:27.859 some of these these alternatives 00:51:29.640 --> 00:51:31.440 I don't know if I'm gonna say this right 00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:35.160 but you did assassinate around 00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:38.579 trauma and inviting people 00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:41.280 to speak of the story of the drama 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.700 without using words but it just sounds 00:51:44.700 --> 00:51:47.760 coming from the throat and I thought 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:51.660 that was extremely effective that on one 00:51:51.660 --> 00:51:55.079 hand that comes out but you don't have 00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:56.579 to put names 00:51:56.579 --> 00:52:00.119 and and relive it in that way that it's 00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:01.559 a narrative 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.599 and that's how you do this they'll get 00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.400 all upset and then they'll go into their 00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:06.680 yeah 00:52:06.680 --> 00:52:09.480 you know and then if you just with that 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:14.720 and you can you learn their language 00:52:14.819 --> 00:52:17.640 you're the adult you learn their 00:52:17.640 --> 00:52:19.319 language well how do you know their 00:52:19.319 --> 00:52:21.240 language you can't learn it if you don't 00:52:21.240 --> 00:52:24.960 have some effective resonance with them 00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.420 and that's in a pro-age appropriate 00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:28.380 stage 00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:31.940 they're in their bodies 00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:37.200 but you had us do it with you know as 00:52:37.200 --> 00:52:39.720 adults and I think 00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:42.839 this whole thing with with the trauma 00:52:42.839 --> 00:52:45.180 industry and whatever 00:52:45.180 --> 00:52:50.280 um you know it presumes too much of the 00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:54.680 coarse grain language and and keeps 00:52:54.680 --> 00:52:57.720 re-narrativizing the story and it 00:52:57.720 --> 00:53:00.720 doesn't necessarily offer I think a 00:53:00.720 --> 00:53:05.460 space of affect ability which is what I 00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:07.440 post I posted a video in the notes 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.559 section today Lisa Feldman Barrett she 00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.660 says what I've been saying the body 00:53:12.660 --> 00:53:16.260 doesn't keep the score the trauma she 00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:18.240 says the Mind keeps the score and the 00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:21.380 body's its scorecard 00:53:25.020 --> 00:53:29.579 because it's a narrative that recreates 00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:32.099 the problem and complicates the problem 00:53:32.099 --> 00:53:33.540 and 00:53:33.540 --> 00:53:37.160 can I can I tell a little story please 00:53:37.160 --> 00:53:41.099 so um I'm a mother 00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:42.420 and 00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:45.240 um I'm also a Dance Movement therapist 00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:48.180 I'm very interested in creative process 00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:52.680 and dance in terms of 00:53:52.680 --> 00:53:56.160 um I guess psychological technology 00:53:56.160 --> 00:53:57.960 new word for me 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.420 um that's what I do 00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:02.760 when my daughter was this is a story 00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:05.700 that I love because it illustrates the 00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:07.980 point that you're describing about the 00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:11.099 phenomena Bonnie that that it's it's a 00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:15.780 great success that parents of my like my 00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.119 parents generation when they were 00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:19.920 children they did they weren't given the 00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.740 words for language then therapists were 00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:25.020 given whole maps to be able to be like 00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:27.000 here here are all the possible emotions 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.720 right that you can name great when I was 00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:33.180 a parent and I at my daughter I took my 00:54:33.180 --> 00:54:34.260 daughter to 00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:37.500 um and my son to go on a 00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:40.160 um a fire truck 00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:44.040 and my son was like yeah he's you know 00:54:44.040 --> 00:54:45.960 three years older than she is so he got 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:48.300 up on the fire truck he's like in the 00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:52.020 seat driving and the firemen 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:55.440 picked up my daughter who was only about 00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:58.140 14 months picked her up to put her into 00:54:58.140 --> 00:54:59.880 the truck 00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:02.460 and she looked at me and she said 00:55:02.460 --> 00:55:05.099 hot 00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:07.640 hot 00:55:08.700 --> 00:55:10.800 and because I have my own relationship 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.339 with anxiety and heat as a phenomena 00:55:14.339 --> 00:55:17.460 that arises I took her out of his hands 00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:19.859 and I said oh did that make you feel hot 00:55:19.859 --> 00:55:23.880 and I reinforced the phenomena and her 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:28.319 ability to describe them as it as it 00:55:28.319 --> 00:55:31.859 arose in the moment because 00:55:31.859 --> 00:55:34.980 that then could build toward her saying 00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:37.440 wow when that dude I didn't know picked 00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.000 me up it made me feel really anxious but 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.920 that's developmentally not where we were 00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:42.660 right so 00:55:42.660 --> 00:55:46.160 um I think this conversation of of 00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:48.059 development 00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:51.180 um and the stages this came out a lot in 00:55:51.180 --> 00:55:53.180 our conversation and it was really 00:55:53.180 --> 00:55:56.640 fascinating and Rich like not everything 00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:58.980 can be taught at the exact same time 00:55:58.980 --> 00:56:00.900 that wasn't a moment for me to be like 00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.660 what you're actually experiencing is 00:56:03.660 --> 00:56:06.839 it was validating being able to track 00:56:06.839 --> 00:56:08.819 and report on the phenomena that were 00:56:08.819 --> 00:56:11.040 arising in her body that was my job as a 00:56:11.040 --> 00:56:13.160 parent 00:56:15.720 --> 00:56:19.500 yeah and so you can imagine 00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:22.200 the parent who gets really mad at the 00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:23.460 firefighter 00:56:23.460 --> 00:56:26.220 and the whole thing escalates into like 00:56:26.220 --> 00:56:29.700 like so you needed space 00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:34.140 you needed awareness the child 00:56:34.140 --> 00:56:36.839 experiences you as having the space and 00:56:36.839 --> 00:56:40.380 the time to yeah all of that is very 00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:42.720 very important 00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:44.839 um 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:49.920 yeah and and also going back to this 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:55.140 idea of care like the attention itself 00:56:55.140 --> 00:56:59.099 is the communication of care 00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:01.859 so what I was attending to was her 00:57:01.859 --> 00:57:04.140 description of the phenomena that we're 00:57:04.140 --> 00:57:07.140 arising the heat right because that 00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:10.640 mattered in that moment so this is 00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:13.559 this is a huge one zakstan talks about 00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.500 about it a lot that a lot 00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:19.200 most of what 00:57:19.200 --> 00:57:21.540 childhood education is is joint 00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:24.420 attention they're teaching children to 00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:26.880 have attention because you're jointly 00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:28.680 attending to them 00:57:28.680 --> 00:57:32.099 versus giving them a book and seeing if 00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:33.599 they can pay attention to what they're 00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:36.180 reading and this is what he says is 00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:39.119 lacking in the teacherly 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:41.640 that the teachers 00:57:41.640 --> 00:57:43.619 um skill set and it's modern education 00:57:43.619 --> 00:57:46.500 but the way to teach attention and 00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:50.160 attending is by 00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:53.099 creating joint attention 00:57:53.099 --> 00:57:55.020 um and that's what you were doing right 00:57:55.020 --> 00:57:58.859 so you and her were jointly attending to 00:57:58.859 --> 00:58:01.319 her body 00:58:01.319 --> 00:58:03.420 um this is the same thing 00:58:03.420 --> 00:58:05.160 um if you you know I don't have kids so 00:58:05.160 --> 00:58:06.960 I love the fact that some of the things 00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.900 I say have actually true in the real 00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:11.099 world 00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.280 um but I've rescued a lot of like abused 00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:17.040 dogs let's say like and 00:58:17.040 --> 00:58:20.040 um when they understand that you 00:58:20.040 --> 00:58:21.900 understand what's happening in their 00:58:21.900 --> 00:58:26.220 body then they pay attention to you 00:58:26.220 --> 00:58:26.880 um 00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:28.920 so it's neutral not whether it's right 00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:32.520 or wrong it's just I know how you feel 00:58:32.520 --> 00:58:34.559 um and 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:37.980 um uh as soon as they realize that you 00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:39.839 have an insight into their internal 00:58:39.839 --> 00:58:42.780 State then they very very much bond with 00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:44.280 you 00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:46.140 um 00:58:46.140 --> 00:58:50.940 nobody gets it right all the time but 00:58:50.940 --> 00:58:54.359 um this is one of the foundations of 00:58:54.359 --> 00:58:56.819 pro-social mammalian life 00:58:56.819 --> 00:59:00.480 uh is even you see these wonderful 00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:03.000 videos of animals and their babies that 00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:05.280 them the baby knows the mother knows 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.839 it's internal 00:59:06.839 --> 00:59:09.420 state 00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:10.859 and 00:59:10.859 --> 00:59:12.240 um you know and this is if you're going 00:59:12.240 --> 00:59:14.700 to use the term trauma which I agree is 00:59:14.700 --> 00:59:19.680 is also uh one of the reasons why people 00:59:19.680 --> 00:59:20.819 who 00:59:20.819 --> 00:59:23.760 may not have been abused as children 00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:27.260 still have some 00:59:27.359 --> 00:59:30.299 uh psychological trauma because they've 00:59:30.299 --> 00:59:32.220 not had this experience of joint 00:59:32.220 --> 00:59:34.700 intention 00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:49.260 um I was fortunate enough to be in 00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:55.579 Kimberly's group with uh Marie and Susan 00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:58.500 oh God 00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:01.500 and 01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:10.160 it was very Dynamic and very 01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:15.059 enlivening and happy making 01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:17.900 and 01:00:19.859 --> 01:00:23.760 I'm speaking to 01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:28.280 add to this discussion 01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:32.520 what I tried to see what was missing 01:00:32.520 --> 01:00:34.799 between the two 01:00:34.799 --> 01:00:36.839 definitions 01:00:36.839 --> 01:00:40.020 and it may be 01:00:40.020 --> 01:00:44.780 the filter that I'm looking at 01:00:45.299 --> 01:00:47.700 um reflective awareness definition 01:00:47.700 --> 01:00:50.220 through and 01:00:50.220 --> 01:00:53.040 it's been what I've been scratching away 01:00:53.040 --> 01:00:56.099 at for three years in the pop-up school 01:00:56.099 --> 01:00:57.599 I think 01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.900 and that's what you called intimate 01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:02.280 coupling 01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:05.119 of heart 01:01:05.819 --> 01:01:06.660 um 01:01:06.660 --> 01:01:09.480 body and mind and in that second 01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:10.579 definition 01:01:10.579 --> 01:01:17.819 I didn't really get that coupling as the 01:01:17.819 --> 01:01:21.480 um entry point into the flow 01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:24.559 of reality 01:01:27.299 --> 01:01:29.880 so maybe if there was another and in 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:32.220 there or something I don't know how to 01:01:32.220 --> 01:01:34.200 but 01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:37.440 so I just want to point that out and it 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:41.339 maybe it's me because I have lived a 01:01:41.339 --> 01:01:42.540 long life 01:01:42.540 --> 01:01:46.440 with my mind over here and my body down 01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.380 here and my heart somewhere in the 01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:51.720 middle of all that maybe entangled and 01:01:51.720 --> 01:01:52.680 all that 01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:55.440 so I just wanna 01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:59.339 um note that as a uh uh 01:01:59.339 --> 01:02:02.480 a thank you 01:02:02.520 --> 01:02:07.319 for this the infusion 01:02:08.700 --> 01:02:10.859 uh into my 01:02:10.859 --> 01:02:14.760 room allowing me to clean up my room as 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:18.559 you said Peterson said 01:02:21.660 --> 01:02:25.200 for my soul's sake so thank you for that 01:02:25.200 --> 01:02:28.619 um having said that 01:02:28.619 --> 01:02:35.160 I took Anna's question to be about that 01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:39.260 the virtual being the mind 01:02:41.220 --> 01:02:45.540 and what I came to in our group was 01:02:45.540 --> 01:02:49.940 without the mind how are we creating 01:02:50.640 --> 01:02:55.760 how do we create without the mind 01:02:56.040 --> 01:03:01.339 isn't the mind giving us some Clues 01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:03.720 that we create with 01:03:03.720 --> 01:03:06.839 like when we're dancing we talk Kimberly 01:03:06.839 --> 01:03:10.079 was dancing talking about dancing 01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:12.480 feeling into the body and moving and I'm 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.400 you know I do that sometimes when I 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:16.500 dance but sometimes I also 01:03:16.500 --> 01:03:17.640 you know 01:03:17.640 --> 01:03:20.220 I remember that I do the if I do the 01:03:20.220 --> 01:03:22.319 twirl alone I'm gonna get dizzy and hurt 01:03:22.319 --> 01:03:25.500 myself so I twirl a lot and then I don't 01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:28.920 so the Mind helps me create 01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:31.559 and then the last thing I pointed out 01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:35.640 was that and it's about and it's in my 01:03:35.640 --> 01:03:38.819 heart this notion of care and so thank 01:03:38.819 --> 01:03:41.700 you for bringing that in the the story 01:03:41.700 --> 01:03:43.980 about the the hungry person and you're 01:03:43.980 --> 01:03:46.559 walking by the hungry person 01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:48.720 and you you can't relate to him because 01:03:48.720 --> 01:03:50.579 you're privileged but you reach your 01:03:50.579 --> 01:03:52.140 hand out or you stick your hand in your 01:03:52.140 --> 01:03:54.420 pocket and give him a piece of candy 01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:57.540 that you know that doesn't that come 01:03:57.540 --> 01:04:00.359 from including the mind and values and 01:04:00.359 --> 01:04:02.940 morals and all those things 01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:07.380 so um that's just a flavor of more about 01:04:07.380 --> 01:04:10.319 what I came to in our group but it was 01:04:10.319 --> 01:04:13.880 really a special Breakout 01:06:05.240 --> 01:06:07.020 so 01:06:07.020 --> 01:06:08.280 um 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:10.200 I was struck by 01:06:10.200 --> 01:06:13.680 what you said Bonnie with 01:06:13.680 --> 01:06:15.140 um how 01:06:15.140 --> 01:06:18.359 the attending to what is happening 01:06:18.359 --> 01:06:23.700 around you that you have to care 01:06:23.700 --> 01:06:25.680 and 01:06:25.680 --> 01:06:30.000 um I've been reading about burnout 01:06:30.299 --> 01:06:31.559 um 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.520 lately and what happens for people when 01:06:35.520 --> 01:06:40.380 they get burnt out in in their jobs and 01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:43.220 one of the 01:06:43.220 --> 01:06:48.070 one of the dimensions of burnout is 01:06:48.070 --> 01:06:48.480 [Music] 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:49.319 um 01:06:49.319 --> 01:06:51.960 is is cynicism 01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:56.640 and negativism and feeling like just 01:06:56.640 --> 01:07:00.140 this distancing with 01:07:00.140 --> 01:07:04.079 what it is that 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:06.599 um we're doing and it just it just 01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:08.220 really struck me 01:07:08.220 --> 01:07:10.220 um 01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:15.539 and it um 01:07:15.539 --> 01:07:18.059 yeah the ways in which our lives are 01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:19.980 organized so that it becomes really hard 01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:22.460 to care 01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:30.140 yeah so this is you know 01:07:32.160 --> 01:07:36.359 it's all kind of circuitous 01:07:36.359 --> 01:07:39.059 you have to attend to your life so that 01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:41.880 you have the space and time to be able 01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:45.359 to attend to things you know I mean 01:07:45.359 --> 01:07:48.180 um I'm a you know me I'm a big believer 01:07:48.180 --> 01:07:51.180 in I've advocated 01:07:51.180 --> 01:07:55.260 in the like the coaches Rising thing is 01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:57.180 you need space 01:07:57.180 --> 01:08:00.500 you need bandwidth 01:08:01.020 --> 01:08:02.940 if you don't have any bandwidth you 01:08:02.940 --> 01:08:05.119 can't 01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:07.500 especially if you have you want to 01:08:07.500 --> 01:08:10.319 transform the way this thing works 01:08:10.319 --> 01:08:12.480 because you realize it's just on 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:13.980 automatic 01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:16.980 you need bandwidth 01:08:16.980 --> 01:08:19.920 um and this is one reason why you know 01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:21.420 doing 01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:24.540 weekly Retreats or month-long Retreats 01:08:24.540 --> 01:08:27.239 or meditating for two hours a day it 01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:29.880 gets you comfortable with your 01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.100 relationship to time oh I have four 01:08:32.100 --> 01:08:35.219 hours a day to meditate 01:08:35.219 --> 01:08:36.900 um and and hopefully it gives you 01:08:36.900 --> 01:08:40.160 bandwidth and so 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:46.219 yeah I you know it's not really 01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:50.640 that's the Practical that's the 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:53.040 Practical piece 01:08:53.040 --> 01:08:55.520 um the the amount of time we spend here 01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:58.259 hopefully you know I think a lot of it's 01:08:58.259 --> 01:09:01.759 really hard work but 01:09:03.299 --> 01:09:05.580 it does take us out of the world you 01:09:05.580 --> 01:09:07.799 know and 01:09:07.799 --> 01:09:09.920 um 01:09:11.940 --> 01:09:14.580 yeah I just call it bandwidth you know I 01:09:14.580 --> 01:09:17.160 think you know what that means and me 01:09:17.160 --> 01:09:20.540 to uh 01:09:21.480 --> 01:09:23.940 yeah you can't be exhausted all the time 01:09:23.940 --> 01:09:26.040 and then expect when something happens 01:09:26.040 --> 01:09:29.660 to respond in this open kind of 01:09:29.660 --> 01:09:31.560 reflexive 01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:34.279 way 01:09:35.219 --> 01:09:36.960 not because 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:39.600 it costs you more energy to be like that 01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:42.000 but it costs you more energy to have to 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.100 change from the way you are to being 01:09:44.100 --> 01:09:46.080 like that at first 01:09:46.080 --> 01:09:48.660 then you see people who are like 01:09:48.660 --> 01:09:50.880 liberated or whatever 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:54.179 they they do 10 million more things than 01:09:54.179 --> 01:09:55.800 the average person does and they always 01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:59.219 seem to be fresh right so they have a 01:09:59.219 --> 01:10:01.500 lot of bandwidth but 01:10:01.500 --> 01:10:05.160 having to pay attention and changing 01:10:05.160 --> 01:10:08.040 your life requires it's kind of like 01:10:08.040 --> 01:10:09.739 when you're trying to 01:10:09.739 --> 01:10:13.080 rearrange the furniture in a crowded 01:10:13.080 --> 01:10:14.160 room 01:10:14.160 --> 01:10:16.500 right first you have to like put some of 01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:17.940 the furniture out because you just don't 01:10:17.940 --> 01:10:22.260 have enough space to rearrange the thing 01:10:22.260 --> 01:10:24.480 and it's very similar to that so like 01:10:24.480 --> 01:10:27.500 one of the great gifts 01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.800 is to have 01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:34.860 the right kind of time 01:10:34.860 --> 01:10:37.260 the bandwidth 01:10:37.260 --> 01:10:40.159 to change 01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.640 and everything in our LA and our reality 01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:48.960 is stacked up to uh not not allow you 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:51.920 access to that 01:10:56.719 --> 01:10:59.940 I'm curious um with this hard work 01:10:59.940 --> 01:11:02.940 like transitioning out of being very 01:11:02.940 --> 01:11:04.260 very subjective 01:11:04.260 --> 01:11:06.239 and trying to come back to more 01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:08.520 objective 01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:13.679 um one like what is the hardness like in 01:11:13.679 --> 01:11:15.659 that process and two like what 01:11:15.659 --> 01:11:17.159 or like practically speaking what does 01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:20.100 that look like if you were too gently 01:11:20.100 --> 01:11:22.320 intentionally move 01:11:22.320 --> 01:11:25.679 yeah it's a great question 01:11:25.679 --> 01:11:27.659 um so what 01:11:27.659 --> 01:11:30.360 like is 01:11:30.360 --> 01:11:33.719 um is you have to you have to have a 01:11:33.719 --> 01:11:36.620 certain uh 01:11:36.620 --> 01:11:40.500 experimental attitude let's say 01:11:40.500 --> 01:11:42.199 um and 01:11:42.199 --> 01:11:46.980 you have to but so for me it was like 01:11:46.980 --> 01:11:50.159 starting to realize that 01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:50.300 um 01:11:50.300 --> 01:11:52.219 [Music] 01:11:52.219 --> 01:11:55.380 that I was doing a lot of work before I 01:11:55.380 --> 01:11:56.580 decided 01:11:56.580 --> 01:11:59.280 planning and having the narrative and 01:11:59.280 --> 01:12:03.060 this and that and then realizing that 01:12:03.060 --> 01:12:06.440 it was quite irrelevant upon reflection 01:12:06.440 --> 01:12:09.179 retrospectively I would make 01:12:09.179 --> 01:12:11.699 um and 01:12:11.699 --> 01:12:13.500 um so 01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:16.920 a lot of it is just like 01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:18.600 um 01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:21.179 running an experiment like you notice 01:12:21.179 --> 01:12:23.280 that you always say yes 01:12:23.280 --> 01:12:26.640 in a certain situation and then 01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:30.679 you say well what if I just say no 01:12:30.679 --> 01:12:33.480 you don't want to say no 01:12:33.480 --> 01:12:35.400 you don't know what's going to happen to 01:12:35.400 --> 01:12:38.400 say no you realize 01:12:38.400 --> 01:12:41.159 I mean some part of you wants to say no 01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:42.900 but you always say yes because this is 01:12:42.900 --> 01:12:45.600 whole context and narrative and 01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:47.820 and then so you just said well what if I 01:12:47.820 --> 01:12:49.620 say no and then you say no and the other 01:12:49.620 --> 01:12:51.960 person says oh God I'm so glad you said 01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:54.360 no like that's just like it was costing 01:12:54.360 --> 01:12:57.380 them energy too 01:12:57.560 --> 01:13:02.100 so uh you have to it starts with just 01:13:02.100 --> 01:13:05.040 having an experimental attitude about 01:13:05.040 --> 01:13:08.880 what Behavior you take on 01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:12.600 and not and and and understand realizing 01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:15.840 that you don't know anything about 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:17.460 what's going to happen except you're 01:13:17.460 --> 01:13:20.820 running an empirical test 01:13:20.820 --> 01:13:23.940 then pretty soon if you're lucky I guess 01:13:23.940 --> 01:13:27.060 maybe you have to be lucky or 01:13:27.060 --> 01:13:31.020 um you realize that a lot of the 01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:33.300 subjective aspect of your decision 01:13:33.300 --> 01:13:35.640 making actually was not helpful it just 01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:38.780 made you more confused 01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:41.040 um and then you start being interested 01:13:41.040 --> 01:13:42.600 in working 01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:47.600 in a more objective sort of way 01:13:49.739 --> 01:13:52.560 um so it starts with an experimental 01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:55.100 attitude 01:13:55.140 --> 01:13:57.840 um and then once you get some success 01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:00.900 you think Hmm 01:14:00.900 --> 01:14:03.000 this is there's something to this you 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.580 don't know why and then you can take you 01:14:05.580 --> 01:14:07.980 can take bigger risks 01:14:07.980 --> 01:14:09.780 um so 01:14:09.780 --> 01:14:11.640 um and sometimes 01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:15.060 uh you'll the experiment will tell you 01:14:15.060 --> 01:14:17.179 well that was not a smart thing to do 01:14:17.179 --> 01:14:19.980 but if it's a small enough rescue you 01:14:19.980 --> 01:14:22.920 still learn as as you go so I don't know 01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:25.140 somebody might have I can't think of an 01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:26.520 example right now but somebody might 01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:28.380 have an example where 01:14:28.380 --> 01:14:30.120 uh 01:14:30.120 --> 01:14:33.860 or something like that for them 01:14:49.400 --> 01:14:54.540 foreign people I know you had I knew you 01:14:54.540 --> 01:14:58.100 had a story I knew it was you 01:14:58.100 --> 01:15:00.900 I had another story I was going to tell 01:15:00.900 --> 01:15:03.540 about yesterday but I I think I'll just 01:15:03.540 --> 01:15:05.520 leave that one now 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:06.179 um 01:15:06.179 --> 01:15:08.640 it's it's quite cool though I was 01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:10.199 interested in what people had to say 01:15:10.199 --> 01:15:14.580 about that but um so my 01:15:14.580 --> 01:15:19.500 my remembrance of all of that is that I 01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:21.300 used to do busy 01:15:21.300 --> 01:15:23.699 so I'd be busy busy busy busy busy doing 01:15:23.699 --> 01:15:26.040 this doing that and end up with like a 01:15:26.040 --> 01:15:27.659 list 01:15:27.659 --> 01:15:30.420 and then someone would ask me something 01:15:30.420 --> 01:15:33.000 and I would know I couldn't do it but I 01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:34.440 put it on the list 01:15:34.440 --> 01:15:37.560 and then in the end what would happen 01:15:37.560 --> 01:15:40.739 for me how it always unfolded for me is 01:15:40.739 --> 01:15:43.440 that I would get sick 01:15:43.440 --> 01:15:46.380 it wasn't earth-shatteringly requiring 01:15:46.380 --> 01:15:48.060 anything major it would be just like a 01:15:48.060 --> 01:15:50.540 cold or a flu and I would have to rest 01:15:50.540 --> 01:15:52.500 and for me 01:15:52.500 --> 01:15:54.540 I didn't really do it I don't know that 01:15:54.540 --> 01:15:57.060 I did an experiment I just got sick of 01:15:57.060 --> 01:15:59.100 this because I haven't had enough of 01:15:59.100 --> 01:16:01.500 this and then I realized this lovely 01:16:01.500 --> 01:16:03.840 word bandwidth I love that 01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:06.320 but it was just 01:16:06.320 --> 01:16:09.199 shifting it was a shift 01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:12.900 and to at first it was like having 01:16:12.900 --> 01:16:16.500 enough space that spaciousness then it's 01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:17.640 a shift 01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:19.739 to 01:16:19.739 --> 01:16:21.800 being open 01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:23.760 listening listening was really 01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.719 significant word as in being reciprocal 01:16:27.719 --> 01:16:30.120 and this enabled 01:16:30.120 --> 01:16:33.000 really decisions that were I am quite 01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:35.520 practical really but decisions that 01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:37.739 needed to be made 01:16:37.739 --> 01:16:39.480 are quite quick 01:16:39.480 --> 01:16:43.340 I just don't and there wasn't as much 01:16:43.340 --> 01:16:45.020 involvement 01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:48.840 exhaustion all me me me in the whole 01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:50.159 thing 01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:52.020 actually that relates to my little story 01:16:52.020 --> 01:16:53.640 I was going to tell should I tell you my 01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:56.400 little story of yesterday Okay so 01:16:56.400 --> 01:16:59.460 yesterday I go I take the kids some kids 01:16:59.460 --> 01:17:02.520 that I love or um it's our holidays so 01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:04.080 we go rock climbing well I don't know 01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:06.600 rock climbing they go rock climbing okay 01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:08.940 so I get there and the little guy 01:17:08.940 --> 01:17:10.739 William is five 01:17:10.739 --> 01:17:14.100 and William comes up to me and he's sort 01:17:14.100 --> 01:17:15.420 of hanging around and I know he's 01:17:15.420 --> 01:17:17.699 wanting to tell me something but then he 01:17:17.699 --> 01:17:19.560 cuddles up and he says 01:17:19.560 --> 01:17:21.840 I'm scared 01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:24.000 now once upon a time 01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:26.219 I would have done a big talking talking 01:17:26.219 --> 01:17:28.500 to him blah blah blah blah blah about 01:17:28.500 --> 01:17:31.980 all of this and I didn't do anything of 01:17:31.980 --> 01:17:33.060 the sort 01:17:33.060 --> 01:17:35.640 because he isn't actually scared 01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:37.679 at all he sounds skeeted and I know he's 01:17:37.679 --> 01:17:40.380 not scared so I give him a big hug and 01:17:40.380 --> 01:17:42.239 then like we we look while I'm hanging 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.300 him I I point out the climbing frame and 01:17:45.300 --> 01:17:47.280 I say we're here to climb these today 01:17:47.280 --> 01:17:49.080 and that's what you're doing 01:17:49.080 --> 01:17:50.760 and they also into that and he climbed 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:51.420 them 01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:53.460 and this is a really 01:17:53.460 --> 01:17:55.800 so I don't have to use much energy 01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:58.800 really I don't have to do all the 01:17:58.800 --> 01:18:01.020 psychological talking about how he's 01:18:01.020 --> 01:18:04.560 feeling and what's going on because I 01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:06.300 don't even think he was scared 01:18:06.300 --> 01:18:08.520 just he just wanted someone 01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:10.199 this is what we're doing and it's 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:12.840 nothing much it's fun but it's easy 01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:14.940 we're just doing it that's what we're 01:18:14.940 --> 01:18:17.520 doing it was my message I don't know if 01:18:17.520 --> 01:18:19.320 that makes any sense but that's what 01:18:19.320 --> 01:18:21.500 happened 01:18:21.719 --> 01:18:23.760 it makes a lot of sense and you know 01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:27.360 some people will have experienced that 01:18:27.360 --> 01:18:31.340 story as an impoverished life 01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:36.480 because they're addicted to the drama 01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:39.000 and they're addicted to the 01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:41.699 to that stuff but you should see this 01:18:41.699 --> 01:18:44.820 kid when he climbs up he's so excited 01:18:44.820 --> 01:18:47.460 and he came down the highest one he got 01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:49.860 to he comes down he says to me I'm 01:18:49.860 --> 01:18:52.380 Really Brave Sue I'm so brave and I'm 01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:54.480 like yes we have another hug and then 01:18:54.480 --> 01:18:56.520 he's off come to another one it's just 01:18:56.520 --> 01:18:58.699 like 01:19:00.800 --> 01:19:04.040 I'm simple 01:19:04.980 --> 01:19:07.800 is not easy 01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:11.040 it's my horse Guru told me 01:19:11.040 --> 01:19:14.480 simple is not easy 01:19:21.540 --> 01:19:23.940 for the impoverished life is when you 01:19:23.940 --> 01:19:26.699 don't have people see that because of 01:19:26.699 --> 01:19:29.159 the drama and the complaining and the da 01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:30.360 da da da 01:19:30.360 --> 01:19:34.280 is that what you're saying yeah 01:19:34.280 --> 01:19:36.600 interesting well and I think part of it 01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:37.860 is because 01:19:37.860 --> 01:19:40.940 if if 01:19:42.420 --> 01:19:45.780 well I don't know it's just 01:19:45.780 --> 01:19:49.040 I know that 01:19:51.659 --> 01:19:54.960 when some people think about what it 01:19:54.960 --> 01:19:57.000 would be like to live a simple life as 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.520 you're describing they just think it 01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:02.460 would be meaningless or something when 01:20:02.460 --> 01:20:04.620 it actually 01:20:04.620 --> 01:20:07.260 so the beauty and meaning of life 01:20:07.260 --> 01:20:11.040 actually has room to to show up 01:20:11.040 --> 01:20:12.960 but 01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:16.280 um there is a 01:20:17.520 --> 01:20:21.360 immunity people have to 01:20:21.360 --> 01:20:22.860 um 01:20:22.860 --> 01:20:25.400 when they imagine themselves in this 01:20:25.400 --> 01:20:29.880 what so called Simple Life 01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:34.440 they can have like an immunity to to it 01:20:34.440 --> 01:20:35.940 because their identity is all about 01:20:35.940 --> 01:20:37.800 running here and running there and doing 01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:39.600 this and being involved and fixing this 01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:41.159 kid and fixing that kid and then getting 01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:44.040 mad at the mother because you trying to 01:20:44.040 --> 01:20:48.140 fix the kid you know all this stuff so 01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:35.580 okay I have another question 01:21:35.580 --> 01:21:37.260 um 01:21:37.260 --> 01:21:40.980 kind of inspired by David sharing of the 01:21:40.980 --> 01:21:45.420 role of the mind if I observe 01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:48.420 how you Bonita 01:21:48.420 --> 01:21:50.460 um 01:21:50.460 --> 01:21:53.760 uh translate into 01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:55.620 whatever you want to call it words 01:21:55.620 --> 01:21:57.980 Theory 01:21:57.980 --> 01:22:01.380 experiences when you're in that exercise 01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:05.280 in that experimentation 01:22:05.280 --> 01:22:06.600 um 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:09.659 what is your mind 01:22:09.659 --> 01:22:13.140 how does your mind work 01:22:13.140 --> 01:22:14.290 in 01:22:14.290 --> 01:22:18.900 [Laughter] 01:22:18.900 --> 01:22:20.940 fact because it's actually doing a 01:22:20.940 --> 01:22:24.840 time you know in this translation I'm 01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:26.699 calling it translation because it's 01:22:26.699 --> 01:22:30.659 Realms you know so I think I'll just 01:22:30.659 --> 01:22:34.620 answer the question and end with a 01:22:34.620 --> 01:22:36.659 quote that 01:22:36.659 --> 01:22:40.980 I wrote I think in the last Socrates I 01:22:40.980 --> 01:22:42.600 can't remember where I write these 01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:44.640 things anymore I've got so many 01:22:44.640 --> 01:22:47.580 but it's a little quote that I wrote 01:22:47.580 --> 01:22:50.340 It's from me and it says I want the 01:22:50.340 --> 01:22:53.940 words to come out of my mouth the way I 01:22:53.940 --> 01:22:57.020 want the dance to come out of my body 01:22:57.020 --> 01:23:01.219 entirely free of my mind 01:23:01.679 --> 01:23:04.380 that's how I write 01:23:04.380 --> 01:23:06.000 that's how I wrote 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:09.170 [Music] 01:23:09.179 --> 01:23:12.600 Kimberly knows what I'm saying 01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:15.000 I want the words to come out of my mouth 01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:17.280 the way I want the dance to come out of 01:23:17.280 --> 01:23:18.360 my body 01:23:18.360 --> 01:23:23.360 I'm entirely free of my mind 01:23:23.640 --> 01:23:27.080 thank you all for a wonderful 01:23:27.080 --> 01:23:30.360 2023 session putting the Mind back into 01:23:30.360 --> 01:23:33.120 the body and the body back into nature 01:23:33.120 --> 01:23:35.100 will come back for a recap open 01:23:35.100 --> 01:23:37.320 discussions 01:23:37.320 --> 01:23:37.980 um 01:23:37.980 --> 01:23:41.239 I'm gonna take a summer breath 01:23:42.780 --> 01:23:45.739 thank you so much