# Affect & Emotion 2023 cohorts transcripts

## Cohort 1

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um the framing of the entire series is

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um we are going to co-create a new

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theory of the body

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and I just want to say that word theory

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sounds very conceptual

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um but we're taking it uh to mean

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um

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what Allison gopnick uh means when she

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describes the scientist in the crib when

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young children are first born they don't

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know how things work what moves when and

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what happens

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when someone is my mom is upset or what

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happens

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when I see my hands move is that me and

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she says the child has to he has these

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hunches he has a hunch that when I see

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my hands move I feel it from the inside

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at the same time and things that work

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like that that's me and so he creates

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this theory of what's me so this is how

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we're trying to create a theory by being

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very uh try to be naive beginner's mind

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um

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and

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um

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so that's what we mean by Theory and why

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do we need a new theory of the body and

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that

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um idea came to me when I was at the

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wisdom event in Vermont this summer

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because we are making very strong

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statements that wisdom comes from the

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body

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but we realized we couldn't pick up a

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book

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and show why that was the case because

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when because no one had theorized the

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body that way

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and so this is what we're trying to

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co-create together

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um during this this journey this this

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over the next I don't know nine months

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or something

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so

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um

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um

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I just have to say this I love it it's

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like you know it's like school and I can

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tell by different people's Expressions

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that they're privately messaging each

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other and I just got this complete hit

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of like when we would take like in in

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class we would take like little pieces

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of paper and the way you'd like you'd

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see the students like anyways I just had

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to say that I think it's very cute uh so

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um

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so in this journey we have a long series

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of what I call Background components so

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that we all in order to build a robust

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area of a body

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um we need to have a shared language

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that is somewhat robust and not only so

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we call the same types of phenomenon

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that we're talking about by the same

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word we just make an agreement

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um but that we are using words that we

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can point to in our bodies phenomenon so

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they're not just kind of conceptual

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flights of fantasy and so this is all

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the background work we'll be doing and

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then in the second part I think it

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starts in September because we have an

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August Break

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um we'll start actually trying to put

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this together in some kind of uh

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coherent whole

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um

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does anybody have any questions about

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that if you're here just for this module

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that's also okay because they all stand

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they all stand pretty much by themselves

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also

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foreign

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now the format of the the course is we

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will be working on this module all month

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but there are six different time slots

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uh that you can join

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and

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um some people like to join

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um just one most people join uh two or

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more

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um and what we've done

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um in order to kind of capitalize on

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this is redesigned the course to be as

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follows

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for the first 15 minutes or so I frame

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uh what we're going to do today and then

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you're going to go into a breakout room

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in into breakout rooms for 45 minutes

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and in those breakout rooms you're going

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to

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um work with the introductory materials

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so you might want to pick that up from

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the pop-up school it says affect an

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emotion parenthesis and disposition

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and it has

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the content of this month's uh course in

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there

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when you're in a breakout group

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um you know you might self-organize

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someone kind of leads

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leads going through that stuff

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um or it might just be more casual than

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that so for 45 minutes you're going to

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look at that material

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in any shape way or form that you want

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what stood out for you what was

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confusing to you and you're going to

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come back at a we're going to come back

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at the top of the hour for the second

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hour and you should come back with not

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only comments but

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what are you most mostly what are your

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questions and confusions or UNS did if

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you solved an answer to make sure you

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see if you

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um came up with the right answers does

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that make sense

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now the other there's a couple of

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um advantages to this you get to know

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each other more the classes the classes

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are getting quite big you have more time

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to tell stories and really understand

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how you and other people understanding

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the material but also

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um this this situation we have where

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people like to come a couple of times so

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if if some of you come the next time

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then when you go into a breakout group

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you will already have more sophisticated

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information to share and it becomes and

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you get a chance to talk about it as a

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little more of an expert so it becomes

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more uh more like second-hand language

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to you so that

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um so that there will be movement as it

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always is uh along

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um along as

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as we go through the six different time

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slots I mean it's the same thing but

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because people will have come more than

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once you'll see that the the information

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will get

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um just naturally get deeper and deeper

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throughout the month and finally the

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other advantages I don't know if people

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are going to take advantage of that is

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that I have invited some people who

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can't spend the whole two hours to come

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back come in at the one hour mark and

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they can learn quite a bit because some

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of this uh

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inquiry has already been taking place

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and this is a really good way to design

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for Collective uh you know intelligence

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for the system to to develop itself so

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are there any questions about just uh

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that design we haven't done it yet so uh

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but I'm feeling pretty positive about it

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Bonnie I just have a logistical question

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about the six cohorts for the month you

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put days of the week but not the actual

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dates that those days were

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okay yeah I should I should I'll I'll

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fix that

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um yeah I already I just did the general

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summary but I didn't put the dates I'll

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fix that on the on the website uh that

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um and I'll I'll send that out today so

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um you'll see it you'll see it right

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away

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um

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thank you

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are there any questions on what you're

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going to be doing in the breakout group

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but please watch your time there's a lot

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there's a lot going on in the first in

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the first

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um

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in the in the you know there's always a

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lot going on so it's better to touch on

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all you know touch on all of it and then

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come back and watch how we deepen it

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than to get stuck uh

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um okay so that's that's great

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um

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so we don't get stuck on

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you know every one of those things you

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could you could do a whole course on so

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try to

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um gather

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um more

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more conversation around the whole thing

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and especially questions

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um then

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um get stuck stuck in just just one

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place so we can come back and deal with

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the with the whole

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the whole thing

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okay

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and now I'm going to set up breakout

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rooms

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three is good right three three people I

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think is good

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uh options

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options

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60. uh 45 minutes

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okay my friends

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um enjoy your conversation and your

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company

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foreign

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like I

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why is that happening I poked the wrong

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button and I stopped the recording

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entirely but I just well I'll just have

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two files it's all

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so you guys look like you had fun

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yeah there was fun involved

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there was depth there was

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insight there was love

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oh my God thanks for putting us three

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together I did randomly I didn't

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I know every time the computer does that

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I look and I see oh there look at that

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room look at that room

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I I hit the lottery

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[Music]

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maybe they hit the lottery totally yeah

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yeah we all did it was great Shelby

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coming in they got did you get the two

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minute

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morning was that what was happening yeah

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it was like 40 seconds when we took off

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so I would imagine they'll be popping in

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soon

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Katie

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[Music]

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Katie you can do it

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yes

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all right close the room down it's just

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us five

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oh no we're being recorded oh come on in

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everybody

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I left and came back

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ah yeah so I've got a Dodge out of here

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you know in a little bit

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[Music]

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I love these names you can't pronounce

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hi there

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hi can you help us pronounce your name

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sure my name is jolt jolt and Katie and

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Katie hi

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okay so these folks all just came back

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from a long conversation and

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um

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yeah this is cool some people are doing

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this one minute marketing uh one hour

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mark okay so what do we got who wants to

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go first

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um

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yeah let's just let's just do this

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Sandra Thomas Alex you were here early

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go first go

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well we started I think Thomas started

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us off with a exploration of the word

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disposition and we sort of broke it down

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as in terms of a prefix this and then

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um that sort of has a one-sidedness to

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it a negative connotation like this

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disrespect this member disorganized and

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then we

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um send a really helped us to bring it

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into this perspective of this position

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like not in a position or away from a

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particular position

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sort of implying a freedom from position

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and that was a real that sort of led to

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other Rich explorations of

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uh Duality and and ways things come back

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into wholeness

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and uh organization and disorganization

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and at the senses

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and yeah so it was really a

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that that was sort of our beginning of

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the trajectory of our conversation

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but somebody else wants to

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pick it up

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no yeah so let me let me say

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um

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so we don't really have time to like

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just go around and debrief the question

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is what

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what was important

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what do you think is important in this

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module what do you think

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um is significant what do you think uh

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humans could do better

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um what are the what are the insights

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that will enable us

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to move forward as a species or

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something and and what it and what what

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seemed confusing to you

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like why is this an important

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lesson to be told

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yeah

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gotcha

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um

00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:01.620
yeah I'll just re with that reframe I

00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:03.660
appreciate that I'll just say that I

00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:04.800
think what

00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:07.500
what comes up as as far as the the

00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:10.919
usefulness of is just at the very sort

00:05:10.919 --> 00:05:13.199
of core level of drawing the one's

00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.139
attention and awareness to these streams

00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:17.880
of affect

00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:20.400
um and dispositional states and the

00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:22.500
significance of those I mean just the

00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:25.680
Raw awareness of those things into into

00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:27.900
the sort of the Lexicon

00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:30.900
you know is is very valuable I believe

00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:32.820
in and of itself

00:05:32.820 --> 00:05:36.180
one thing that was sort of confusing or

00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:39.539
I was having a hard time organizing my

00:05:39.539 --> 00:05:42.900
a schema there was the um

00:05:42.900 --> 00:05:45.300
emotional valence in the table of

00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:48.900
fxtreme expanded mode contracted mode

00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:51.240
and I kept I kept wanting to place these

00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:52.560
into sort of

00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.320
a spectrum or opposites

00:05:55.320 --> 00:05:58.440
and then some sort of a

00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:00.300
an ideal

00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:03.000
State uh

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.639
and I was having a hard time sort of I

00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:08.100
think particularly with them

00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:10.860
well yeah it was just

00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:13.199
never coming into a resolution or

00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.080
Clarity exactly what the the table was

00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:17.400
trying to

00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:20.720
get at there

00:06:29.460 --> 00:06:33.600
somebody is somebody wanted to speak to

00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:35.580
the table what was

00:06:35.580 --> 00:06:38.960
that trying to say Phoebe

00:06:39.900 --> 00:06:41.940
yes first of all I want to say Bonnie

00:06:41.940 --> 00:06:45.300
this is an amazing chapter whatever this

00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:46.560
is

00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:51.440
um I I am so excited by it

00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:52.259
um

00:06:52.259 --> 00:06:54.139
um so I have both a

00:06:54.139 --> 00:06:57.479
dispositional state of I don't know what

00:06:57.479 --> 00:07:01.080
um let's see Gap J

00:07:01.080 --> 00:07:04.020
being comfortable in being in the world

00:07:04.020 --> 00:07:08.639
because this makes sense and uh is it

00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.979
feels accurate but um also serious

00:07:10.979 --> 00:07:14.819
arousal and what arouses me is

00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:19.919
is how you expanded the um the the grid

00:07:19.919 --> 00:07:22.979
to include this spectrum of awe and

00:07:22.979 --> 00:07:25.860
dread the the the the the more extreme

00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:27.479
states

00:07:27.479 --> 00:07:30.599
um so what feels so exciting about this

00:07:30.599 --> 00:07:33.680
is is that is that there's an initial

00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.840
affect stream from maybe from arousal

00:07:36.840 --> 00:07:40.139
like the deer that senses danger and so

00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:42.000
there's an initial

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.780
um bodily response that's neutral that

00:07:45.780 --> 00:07:47.699
can go towards

00:07:47.699 --> 00:07:50.220
um and for the deer it stays neutral

00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:54.360
it stays without a story exactly right

00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:56.819
so you have a dispositional state that's

00:07:56.819 --> 00:08:00.240
kind of your background mood and the

00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.039
deer you know there's different people

00:08:02.039 --> 00:08:04.560
and then there's an arousal the branch

00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.120
breaks you're saying everything right

00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:07.500
I'm just slowing you down then I'm going

00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.539
to let you finish the story the branch

00:08:09.539 --> 00:08:13.800
breaks and now this kind of fuzzy

00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:17.639
rhythmic disposition is canalized down a

00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.099
certain affect stream it's response

00:08:20.099 --> 00:08:22.620
right because the body knows how to do

00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.379
things it says well I don't want to I

00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:27.479
don't want to have everything kind of in

00:08:27.479 --> 00:08:30.560
neutral and I I'm I'm

00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.719
aroused and this happens

00:08:33.719 --> 00:08:36.959
my body changes

00:08:36.959 --> 00:08:39.839
okay good but it doesn't the deer

00:08:39.839 --> 00:08:41.219
doesn't have

00:08:41.219 --> 00:08:42.779
a story

00:08:42.779 --> 00:08:44.339
yeah I guess that's what I meant by

00:08:44.339 --> 00:08:46.920
neutral because correct it's in this

00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:49.140
it's poised now it's poised for action

00:08:49.140 --> 00:08:51.120
and all of its systems are poised maybe

00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.480
the heartbeat comes up and whatever the

00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.100
physiological responses are to immediate

00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:57.839
action

00:08:57.839 --> 00:09:00.180
um and his eyes maybe are wider and it's

00:09:00.180 --> 00:09:02.820
looking around to see is there danger uh

00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:04.740
and then it will go into action and the

00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:06.839
action will be clean if it has to run it

00:09:06.839 --> 00:09:08.399
will be clean and if there isn't any

00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.500
danger then it will continue to graze or

00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:13.440
whatever then the effort just those and

00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.300
it's back into a dispositional state

00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:19.440
yeah exactly okay and so when more first

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.720
born

00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.260
we have affix

00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:27.540
and they know they don't have stories

00:09:27.540 --> 00:09:29.660
because it's our

00:09:29.660 --> 00:09:33.440
original nature

00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:35.820
and then what's the rest of the story

00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:39.120
Phoebe how do we get what what happens

00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.820
to us when we're young well I mean like

00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:43.800
you say if uh something happens to a

00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:45.240
child the child Falls and then the

00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:47.519
mother comes in and gets hysterical then

00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:49.080
the child has a story attached to

00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:50.640
Falling whereas if the mother says oh

00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:52.440
okay let's see what we can do and fix it

00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.080
then it becomes not it doesn't become as

00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:58.080
emotionally Laden or story Laden exactly

00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.560
so what happens is the child Falls and

00:10:01.560 --> 00:10:03.899
cuts its knee I made it a little more

00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.200
than just a little fall and then we've

00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.060
seen this children do it all the time

00:10:09.060 --> 00:10:11.760
they look at their to an adult to see

00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:14.100
what's the meaning I can feel something

00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:15.959
happening in my body

00:10:15.959 --> 00:10:18.360
I don't know what it means

00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:22.140
so you look to the adult and that sets

00:10:22.140 --> 00:10:25.920
the emotional marker so now if if the

00:10:25.920 --> 00:10:28.140
adult says oh my God

00:10:28.140 --> 00:10:30.959
then now every time that configuration

00:10:30.959 --> 00:10:33.240
comes up in that child's body it will

00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.399
search for that kind of response versus

00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.660
when that feeling comes up in the body

00:10:41.660 --> 00:10:45.120
you the mother is like oh well let's see

00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.880
oh we can take care of it

00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:51.060
so you you her responses are they

00:10:51.060 --> 00:10:53.700
expanded when that comes up in your body

00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:58.380
it you you move to care you move toward

00:10:58.380 --> 00:11:01.680
curiosity you move toward Mastery oh

00:11:01.680 --> 00:11:03.959
let's practice doing that again so you

00:11:03.959 --> 00:11:05.279
won't fall

00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:08.579
and it's a very simple code that people

00:11:08.579 --> 00:11:10.019
can follow

00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:11.700
and so

00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:14.399
um yeah and and that's a very important

00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:18.060
part of this chapter and so as adults we

00:11:18.060 --> 00:11:21.060
can also work with this because if

00:11:21.060 --> 00:11:24.240
someone has anger it means that their

00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.880
their natural kind of signature is in

00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:29.040
the anger play

00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:32.459
and as we can say all right I'm not

00:11:32.459 --> 00:11:34.860
going to try to tone someone who's got a

00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:37.380
lot of energy that goes into anger into

00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:40.140
maybe a caring cuddly person because

00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:43.440
that's not that's not the message

00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.079
that the the body of this person is

00:11:46.079 --> 00:11:47.940
giving me I mean I'm not going to make

00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:49.620
fun of them that's not what play means

00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:52.019
but it's like you give people like that

00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:55.500
challenges and and work to do and and

00:11:55.500 --> 00:12:00.060
competition and and Sport and because

00:12:00.060 --> 00:12:04.760
that's the play Mastery skill so so

00:12:04.760 --> 00:12:07.680
so that's the other aspect is when

00:12:07.680 --> 00:12:10.260
you're working with adults

00:12:10.260 --> 00:12:13.079
and you train them when that energy

00:12:13.079 --> 00:12:16.500
comes up that feels something in your

00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:18.060
body

00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:20.399
go and do something

00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.820
it's time to go and and build that rock

00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.480
wall or something and so that that's

00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.120
that's a big part of it thank you but

00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.120
but also like the um

00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.079
like if you have somebody that's angry

00:12:36.079 --> 00:12:38.940
there's there's story attached to that

00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:41.040
there's there's drama attached to that

00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:43.560
right right yeah back into the sensation

00:12:43.560 --> 00:12:45.959
of it maybe you can get to the arousal

00:12:45.959 --> 00:12:48.660
of you know I got energy I want to do

00:12:48.660 --> 00:12:51.060
something right and say well what's the

00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:53.880
creative way to use this what what's a

00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:55.680
satisfying way you know satisfying that

00:12:55.680 --> 00:12:58.680
arousal rather than thinking that the

00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:00.660
all you know I can't place I have to get

00:13:00.660 --> 00:13:05.160
mad you know right and we never try to

00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:07.920
down regulate the arousal energy I mean

00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.339
we want to have it we want to try to

00:13:11.339 --> 00:13:15.060
work work with it uh

00:13:15.060 --> 00:13:16.920
um I mean of course we live in a complex

00:13:16.920 --> 00:13:19.620
society there are many times like when

00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.839
the cop pulls me over

00:13:21.839 --> 00:13:24.839
I am down regulating my arousal energy

00:13:24.839 --> 00:13:27.060
and putting myself like a little child

00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:29.880
did I just go you know I mean just I'm

00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:31.380
not saying that there's not practical

00:13:31.380 --> 00:13:33.600
alcalities but

00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.060
um yeah so that's an important that's

00:13:36.060 --> 00:13:38.519
the difference between affect

00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.600
and emotion now the problematic thing is

00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.899
is that once the emotion

00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:49.920
gets tagged with a story then certain

00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:51.839
words

00:13:51.839 --> 00:13:55.860
will downwardly cause you to have an

00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:57.959
affect it can work in the opposite way

00:13:57.959 --> 00:14:01.920
too so Raj

00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.620
uh I just wanted to build on the

00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:06.360
conversation of story and this was

00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:08.459
actually just something I in my

00:14:08.459 --> 00:14:10.980
conversation in Holly's Brilliance was

00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:12.720
just she was talking about

00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.800
um

00:14:13.800 --> 00:14:16.380
the disconnecting of the story to the

00:14:16.380 --> 00:14:18.540
the affect and just having them the

00:14:18.540 --> 00:14:20.639
experience and what the experience would

00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.399
do that felt powerful but and what

00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.459
occurs to me is that

00:14:26.459 --> 00:14:28.860
stories don't just live at an individual

00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:29.820
level

00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:32.160
they are familial stories there are

00:14:32.160 --> 00:14:34.200
communal stories or societal stories

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.440
there's historical stories and the

00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:39.180
stories that are layered upon stories

00:14:39.180 --> 00:14:41.540
and layered upon stories

00:14:41.540 --> 00:14:49.019
and um so I'm wondering then what is the

00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:50.459
practice

00:14:50.459 --> 00:14:54.480
beyond the individual as it connects to

00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:57.139
affect

00:14:57.660 --> 00:15:00.600
um and being present to affect not only

00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.820
with me but with

00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:06.420
Community or with Society it feels like

00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:07.740
we're all

00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.019
trapped together

00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:12.300
and not knowing how to navigate all this

00:15:12.300 --> 00:15:14.399
so I mean those are like my jumble

00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.380
thoughts and wondering if you have a

00:15:16.380 --> 00:15:19.820
thought on that yeah just quickly one is

00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:22.440
affects are infectious

00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:27.180
right so like when somebody is affects

00:15:27.180 --> 00:15:29.699
getting dysregulated well arousal let me

00:15:29.699 --> 00:15:32.600
say this I think it's more properly said

00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.880
arousal energy is infectious

00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:38.760
because you can you can be aroused and

00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:41.519
get angry and then I might be aroused

00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.060
and start to get get fearful so it's not

00:15:45.060 --> 00:15:47.120
like we always have the same affect but

00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.120
arousal energy is infectious

00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.440
and then we have these collectively held

00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:56.480
stories

00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.060
and it's and we also have this Cesspool

00:16:00.060 --> 00:16:02.100
of the stories

00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:04.260
commenting on the stories coming down

00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:08.040
the stories and this this whole thing

00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:12.000
um so the answer is

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.060
um

00:16:14.339 --> 00:16:16.579
um

00:16:18.540 --> 00:16:20.880
that people are going to find very hard

00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:23.760
to believe but I know this is true

00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:25.699
and that is

00:16:25.699 --> 00:16:29.360
99 percent

00:16:30.540 --> 00:16:34.079
of the trouble we get in collectively

00:16:34.079 --> 00:16:38.519
can be solved at the level of the body

00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.560
and it's because we don't believe that

00:16:40.560 --> 00:16:43.920
is that we jump into the story and we

00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:47.540
fight the story with the story

00:16:49.560 --> 00:16:51.959
and when I say the level of the body I

00:16:51.959 --> 00:16:54.959
mean your body because you can't make

00:16:54.959 --> 00:16:58.079
another body do it do what you want it

00:16:58.079 --> 00:17:00.380
to do

00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:04.439
but there is the Infectious thing in the

00:17:04.439 --> 00:17:07.559
body meaning yes you have holding a

00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.600
particular affect and being true to it

00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:11.400
actually does have an effect on other

00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:13.260
bodies

00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:17.640
exactly and noticing not resisting you

00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.280
get to go to the Gap can I let myself be

00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.559
surprised by what's happening to my body

00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.579
in this space wow whose body is that

00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:29.580
I don't have to get into a story I can

00:17:29.580 --> 00:17:31.919
just be curious and then I can say well

00:17:31.919 --> 00:17:34.980
where do you want to go and as I'm

00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:38.760
working with my body the words that

00:17:38.760 --> 00:17:43.020
happen to fit or come out differently

00:17:43.020 --> 00:17:48.299
then if I say oh oh no that's not right

00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:50.580
and I and I don't start with the body

00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:52.919
you start with the body and just your

00:17:52.919 --> 00:17:55.500
speech gets more skillful it just does

00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:57.600
you're not really

00:17:57.600 --> 00:17:59.760
noticing why you said what you did

00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:02.700
you're just noticing you're processing

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:05.900
this stuff through your body

00:18:06.179 --> 00:18:09.000
or you're noticing oh my God I'm way I'm

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.620
just cut really away into this argument

00:18:12.620 --> 00:18:15.480
oh I gotta start over

00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.660
foreign

00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.500
let's go to Liz has hers has had her

00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:30.360
hand raised for a bit why don't you just

00:18:30.360 --> 00:18:32.640
put your hand up so we can track who's

00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.340
who's going yeah Liz

00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:36.480
okay

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.700
um first I I wanna I think I'm getting

00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:39.900
something

00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:41.100
um and I just want to check it out with

00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:43.380
you which is

00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:46.860
there's a there's a complexity out of

00:18:46.860 --> 00:18:50.640
which affect is arising and then we have

00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.080
an emotional response and then our

00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:55.380
dispositional state begins to add

00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:58.260
complexity that is actually constricting

00:18:58.260 --> 00:19:02.280
yes the arousal not like the the comp

00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:04.740
it's constricting the natural complexity

00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:08.340
of the thing that's arising that's what

00:19:08.340 --> 00:19:10.500
you're saying when you say complexity

00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.620
actually can shut collapse on itself and

00:19:13.620 --> 00:19:16.500
shut down right yeah okay so that's

00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:19.799
correct yeah yes and you you that that's

00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.440
why that word it's not a familiar word

00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.260
but if you think of the word canalized

00:19:25.260 --> 00:19:28.440
like a canal like all the infinite

00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.720
number of things that an open

00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.880
disposition can do

00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.780
becomes

00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:39.840
contracted into one sequence which is

00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:45.020
okay but how fast can I recover

00:19:45.360 --> 00:19:48.000
now if it's contracted to a sequence and

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.980
the sequence as a story then the story

00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.799
lingers way after the

00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.760
initial contraction happened that that

00:19:55.760 --> 00:19:59.100
could have been a good thing

00:19:59.100 --> 00:20:01.559
but then we can mutilate ourselves with

00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:05.280
the story forever and ever also okay yes

00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:08.160
so so that's right I gotta catch what

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.200
you just said you're actually saying

00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.539
there are times when the contraction of

00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:15.480
the arousal energy can be a good thing

00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.020
the canalization like like

00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:22.260
it when I'm open I there's a hundred

00:20:22.260 --> 00:20:25.200
thousand ways I could go at any moment I

00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.660
could get angry if I needed to I could

00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:30.960
get Karen I could jump so that's why

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.500
it's very complex and then you know all

00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.559
of a sudden I see a car is gonna run

00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.679
over this little kid now out of all the

00:20:40.679 --> 00:20:43.559
things that I was potentially going to

00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.320
do it becomes one thing

00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:48.539
so I think I use the word contraction

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:51.600
but I meant canalized right it becomes

00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:53.640
one thing

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.400
and that's a good thing

00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.100
and then

00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:02.760
you go back into having a complex

00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:05.120
potential state if you have an open

00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:07.860
dispositional State now some people

00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:09.539
their dispositional states already

00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:12.299
canalize so they're almost always a

00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.640
little fearful or always a little at you

00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.860
know what I'm saying so it's not that

00:21:16.860 --> 00:21:19.980
when it becomes canalized or directed

00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:23.340
it's wrong it's how much access then do

00:21:23.340 --> 00:21:25.380
I have

00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:29.159
to this Rich complexity of everything I

00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:30.120
might

00:21:30.120 --> 00:21:32.580
do

00:21:32.580 --> 00:21:34.320
yeah that's awesome that's super helpful

00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:35.760
I think I'm going to actually hold my

00:21:35.760 --> 00:21:36.620
question

00:21:36.620 --> 00:21:38.700
that was I just want to absorb that

00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.100
thank you yeah but you got it like and I

00:21:41.100 --> 00:21:43.080
think you made it richer and but but

00:21:43.080 --> 00:21:47.720
yeah you've got it right

00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:54.780
uh uh Schultz

00:21:54.780 --> 00:21:57.600
hey and this is a good question

00:21:57.600 --> 00:21:59.460
um I'm curious if you

00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:02.460
see or could speak to like the role of

00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:04.140
stories in this more broadly if there's

00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.059
like a positive role for stories so

00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:07.559
we've talked about like constricting

00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.780
role

00:22:09.780 --> 00:22:11.820
yeah so

00:22:11.820 --> 00:22:16.440
um so as I said to in the story of the

00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.039
little child the mother you know is not

00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.100
just going to be a cool dude about it

00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:27.120
she's going to add a story oh let's look

00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:30.120
um I mean in you know there's many times

00:22:30.120 --> 00:22:32.280
we don't say that we'll just do that

00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:36.659
with our body but if we also use this

00:22:36.659 --> 00:22:37.980
you know

00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:41.100
so let's wrap this experience in this

00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:44.039
kind of story and maybe a little later

00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:44.940
on

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.059
you could wrap the story of the universe

00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:52.500
into that experience the child had

00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:55.200
So like um

00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.380
um

00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:00.960
you know a fable like in the universe

00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.419
like a Winnie the Pooh story or

00:23:03.419 --> 00:23:06.000
something you know and so so but what

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.740
you're doing is every time those stories

00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:10.740
come up the relation the child is saying

00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:13.559
well how are things related in this Loop

00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.640
oh yes it's bad that poo fell down but

00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:20.820
Piglet's gonna come and see what the

00:23:20.820 --> 00:23:23.340
problem is you'll hear kids say that oh

00:23:23.340 --> 00:23:25.679
piglet piglet go see what the problem is

00:23:25.679 --> 00:23:28.740
you know so you're building this way of

00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:33.360
Imagining the relations in the universe

00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:35.640
um and how we organize we have to

00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.159
organize the complexity of our world

00:23:38.159 --> 00:23:41.159
into stories

00:23:41.159 --> 00:23:42.960
so

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.760
um

00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:47.220
and it is a question of you know

00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:50.340
sometimes as parents we do all of a

00:23:50.340 --> 00:23:52.500
sudden you know we feel like oh I got it

00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:56.100
overreacted and I can use the story to

00:23:56.100 --> 00:24:00.000
calm myself down into and and maybe even

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.820
say oh whoa geez mama mommy overreacted

00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:05.280
let's go see or something like that you

00:24:05.280 --> 00:24:08.340
know so a lot of times we can just we

00:24:08.340 --> 00:24:10.880
can use Talking to Ourselves

00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:16.679
uh uh to to help help us along

00:24:16.679 --> 00:24:18.840
and then when they become automatic and

00:24:18.840 --> 00:24:21.120
they're beneficial that's helpful

00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:23.400
when they're automatic and they're not

00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.640
helpful that's that's really annoying

00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.720
good question

00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:38.220
you did I think

00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:40.860
okay let's try it again great my

00:24:40.860 --> 00:24:42.960
apologies uh Susan asked this question

00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.000
in our conversation about would we

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.299
potentially need to find

00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:51.140
symbols or a new language she was uh

00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:53.880
referencing hinton's

00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:58.140
book the name the wild mind one um and

00:24:58.140 --> 00:24:59.760
how he would put the Chinese characters

00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:02.039
in without any

00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.140
explanation or definition necessarily

00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:06.299
right of the characters themselves and

00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:11.039
so one of the things that we riffed from

00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.700
that into was this kind of like

00:25:13.700 --> 00:25:17.760
improvisational playful gestural

00:25:17.760 --> 00:25:18.120
[Music]

00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:19.039
um

00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.260
relationship to working with our own

00:25:22.260 --> 00:25:25.140
States right and so that maybe a new

00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.880
language but maybe also just

00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.919
reconnecting to

00:25:28.919 --> 00:25:33.600
our capacity right should

00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:38.100
from a a playful orientation and from an

00:25:38.100 --> 00:25:41.580
you know entering into the the sense of

00:25:41.580 --> 00:25:45.179
that oscillation between the openness of

00:25:45.179 --> 00:25:47.039
having all these possibilities and the

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.740
consolidation into one channel of having

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:52.919
a choice so that we in our conversation

00:25:52.919 --> 00:25:56.039
of exploring what a theory of the body

00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:02.159
might be that we look to this kind of

00:26:02.159 --> 00:26:06.020
flow and breath motion as a way of

00:26:06.020 --> 00:26:11.299
discovering like what that

00:26:12.600 --> 00:26:15.000
Theory actually is from this embodied

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:16.559
place right which I mean I think this is

00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:18.059
what you're pointing to in a lot of

00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:22.220
these writings right but maybe to um

00:26:22.919 --> 00:26:25.320
bring it into a kind of like concrete

00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:27.179
practicality is that we have the

00:26:27.179 --> 00:26:28.260
opportunity

00:26:28.260 --> 00:26:32.220
to play with this right and so then

00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:34.799
it's fine to have a story but can we

00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.919
hold the story Loosely and playfully so

00:26:37.919 --> 00:26:39.480
that we can like oh that was cool for a

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.580
while let's put it down let's not have a

00:26:41.580 --> 00:26:43.140
story let's pick up a new story I have

00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.779
the story that I don't have a story

00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:47.279
um so just

00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.919
opening up and leaning into

00:26:49.919 --> 00:26:52.620
that opportunity that this this kind of

00:26:52.620 --> 00:26:54.559
like inquiry

00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:57.600
provides yeah and then you know you kept

00:26:57.600 --> 00:26:59.100
using the word play and that's part of

00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:01.440
the Mastery skills can we become Master

00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.120
storytellers

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:05.220
I mean this is an interesting question

00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:08.159
what is it to be a master Storyteller

00:27:08.159 --> 00:27:11.760
and in some respects the the article

00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:15.600
itself is a story it's puts I I chose

00:27:15.600 --> 00:27:17.760
some things to be put together and then

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:21.179
I mean the valid also across different

00:27:21.179 --> 00:27:24.360
domains like science and stuff but

00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:26.279
um it's put together in a certain way

00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.940
versus uh Liz Mitten right not Liz mitt

00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:31.380
and Ryan she's a

00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:35.400
she's uh she's a horse person that Liz

00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.039
Wilson here her name came up and all I

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:39.960
could think of is this other person

00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.559
um so uh uh Lisa Feldman Barrett wrote a

00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.020
book how emotions are made she's put the

00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:48.360
science together but she's talking about

00:27:48.360 --> 00:27:50.539
only talking about downward causation

00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:53.700
that the Mind sets a story and then we

00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:56.159
get emotional so

00:27:56.159 --> 00:27:58.320
um yeah so I would consider her not a

00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:01.080
master Storyteller it's not helpful

00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:04.200
um but yes and and I think one of the

00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:05.940
things you picked up from the article is

00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:09.360
that gesture posture movement and breath

00:28:09.360 --> 00:28:13.380
work directly with the dispositions

00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:13.919
um

00:28:13.919 --> 00:28:18.240
and there's tremendous amount that can

00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.340
be explored just just in that and and I

00:28:23.340 --> 00:28:24.900
and I know you know that

00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.500
Holly

00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:30.299
yeah I just wanted to riff a little on

00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:31.799
the story piece

00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:34.440
um like yesterday I had it I I lost

00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:36.179
something kind of valuable

00:28:36.179 --> 00:28:40.860
and I had this wave of anxiety sort of

00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:43.460
arise that was associated with the story

00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:48.240
and I realized if I drop the story

00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.840
and all there was was this pulsating

00:28:50.840 --> 00:28:53.220
exciting energy

00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:55.740
um and so it's sort of like this matter

00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:58.380
of sequence like body first body first

00:28:58.380 --> 00:29:00.000
in this incredible

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.039
it was actually kind of ecstatic the way

00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:04.440
it was moving through my body and then

00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.539
and then the story came after that and

00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:08.279
the story was actually even more geared

00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.279
towards like a deep curiosity like an

00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.760
Amor Fati of like oh well now I get to

00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:16.200
experience the world without this thing

00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.260
and what is that going to look like

00:29:19.260 --> 00:29:21.960
um so it seems like part of the Mastery

00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:24.360
in storytelling is coming from this

00:29:24.360 --> 00:29:26.399
silence

00:29:26.399 --> 00:29:27.899
um kind of from the bottom up I notice

00:29:27.899 --> 00:29:30.059
it's really much in my belly button like

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:31.500
that's really where the silence and the

00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:33.419
arousal comes from

00:29:33.419 --> 00:29:35.340
um but to feel it first and then that

00:29:35.340 --> 00:29:37.559
story arises from the bottom up rather

00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:39.720
than the top down

00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.960
um is has been my experience of it and I

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:44.340
also wanted to juxtapose what you're

00:29:44.340 --> 00:29:46.200
saying too about like

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.539
feeling feeling these emotions and then

00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:50.700
at like anger and then yeah having to

00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.620
move that and and physically the

00:29:52.620 --> 00:29:54.539
physicality of that

00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:57.419
um and also the value of being able to

00:29:57.419 --> 00:30:00.480
sit with with those feelings like to not

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.980
act on them in times

00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.020
um being able to widen our own body's

00:30:04.020 --> 00:30:06.000
capacity and container to be able to

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.200
feel the fullness of the arousal

00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.600
yeah so there's really a lot of good

00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:15.480
stuff in this and I just want to put it

00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.539
in context of when we go forward

00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:21.720
in many situations we have arousal

00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.020
energy we see we search for actions that

00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:26.220
satisfy

00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:30.260
but in many cases these are already

00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:31.980
mental

00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.720
questions

00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.000
so they act the action has to satisfy

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.260
has to be

00:30:37.260 --> 00:30:39.960
in your mind or your psyche we'll get to

00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:41.880
that when we talk about reflection and

00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.760
reflexivity in the in the deer situation

00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:47.039
in the child situation it's easy the

00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:50.120
actions that satisfy are literally

00:30:50.120 --> 00:30:53.700
doing something but what if the actions

00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.640
that satisfy is like

00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.260
trying to figure out

00:31:02.520 --> 00:31:04.500
you know what to do as an organization

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:06.179
or something

00:31:06.179 --> 00:31:08.039
and this gets a little more complicated

00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:10.500
but what we want to do is understand the

00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:13.860
exact what you said just in the mental

00:31:13.860 --> 00:31:17.279
realm we want it but it's a little

00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.880
harder

00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:22.320
to appeal to the body when the question

00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:24.779
is already

00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:26.940
conceptual

00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:29.820
right but but if we but it's the exact

00:31:29.820 --> 00:31:32.279
same thing this is what we when we start

00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:37.440
here to really get a handle on on that

00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.080
does that make sense I I mean I extended

00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:41.940
expanded what you said because you were

00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:44.600
exactly right

00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.260
Joshua

00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:50.460
hi

00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:53.399
um I think one of the questions or where

00:31:53.399 --> 00:31:56.340
we actually were you commented on as

00:31:56.340 --> 00:32:00.240
being feeling disoriented or dislocated

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.340
um in a time between worlds or a time

00:32:02.340 --> 00:32:04.919
when we see our world is showing us that

00:32:04.919 --> 00:32:07.919
you know some something's not right and

00:32:07.919 --> 00:32:10.260
where to look so I think that maybe this

00:32:10.260 --> 00:32:12.299
idea of disposition locating myself

00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:16.080
first of my body then that's a place to

00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:17.520
start

00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:19.200
um so I think that that has

00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.659
value

00:32:21.659 --> 00:32:24.179
um and I think that one of the things

00:32:24.179 --> 00:32:26.039
that we did talk about was interesting

00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.860
was like maybe what blocks are open

00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:32.159
disposition would be something just

00:32:32.159 --> 00:32:32.779
um

00:32:32.779 --> 00:32:37.020
recognizing that our actions will send

00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:39.059
waves into the world like we will change

00:32:39.059 --> 00:32:41.039
by making decisions by not making

00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.860
decisions by moving by not moving how we

00:32:43.860 --> 00:32:47.220
show up affects the world and sometimes

00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:49.500
that's overwhelming I think

00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.020
um to know that and

00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:54.059
um it also kind of led to the questions

00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:56.880
how far is my body extended into the

00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:57.899
world

00:32:57.899 --> 00:33:01.380
um so I think that that's kind of where

00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:04.620
yeah this is a really good question and

00:33:04.620 --> 00:33:07.740
and it's it's it's a good you know you

00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:10.020
can notice just by

00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:13.980
by acknowledging that your actions have

00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:15.720
consequences

00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.600
most of which you cannot know

00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:21.779
uh and then you notice oh well that

00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:24.620
makes me feel a little

00:33:24.620 --> 00:33:27.360
uncomfortable let's say maybe I didn't

00:33:27.360 --> 00:33:29.940
get angry I didn't get fearful I didn't

00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:33.059
it isn't that

00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:35.519
crisp

00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.700
um but in that that

00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:41.399
dis-ease

00:33:41.399 --> 00:33:44.279
that's actually your body

00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.340
working on that problem it's the energy

00:33:47.340 --> 00:33:49.380
of of

00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.140
uh you know we say ruminated I'm gonna

00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:54.120
ruminate on it which means you don't

00:33:54.120 --> 00:33:56.340
really think about it but ruminate means

00:33:56.340 --> 00:33:58.140
like you chew on it right you let

00:33:58.140 --> 00:34:00.360
yourself chew on it

00:34:00.360 --> 00:34:03.899
um so uh yeah those are big questions

00:34:03.899 --> 00:34:06.299
and they have a feedback loop to your

00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:09.179
disposition State these these these

00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:10.260
larger

00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:12.960
inquiries

00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.540
good noticing John did you still have

00:34:15.540 --> 00:34:17.780
something

00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:22.080
uh yeah it was uh more of my own example

00:34:22.080 --> 00:34:24.379
of how I get tied up into my own

00:34:24.379 --> 00:34:27.300
narrative which takes me away from the

00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:29.639
proper disposition or stayed into my own

00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:31.740
emotions rather than being in the right

00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:33.960
affect and proper dispositional State

00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.139
and I was doing that at my center for

00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:40.379
some time uh and I was getting myself

00:34:40.379 --> 00:34:42.540
confined in an emotional state and

00:34:42.540 --> 00:34:44.280
separate from other members within the

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.980
group so towards the end of this week

00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.320
with the study of your work I was

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.159
beginning to tie into uh to move away

00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.679
from my narrative and leave my narrative

00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.080
to myself to my own ruminatings and then

00:34:58.080 --> 00:35:01.200
come back into my environment of uh

00:35:01.200 --> 00:35:04.980
affect and move out of emotion into what

00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:06.720
exactly happened and then I started

00:35:06.720 --> 00:35:08.460
communicating with the people in my

00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:10.920
center and we all started getting

00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.800
positive responses back and forth so I

00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:15.720
instead of down regulating into my

00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:18.240
narrative I was up regulating into the

00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:20.579
actuality D I think of being embodiment

00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:23.520
of what you're trying to help us do

00:35:23.520 --> 00:35:26.099
yeah that's a good noticing a lot of

00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:30.320
times uh when we are

00:35:30.660 --> 00:35:33.300
we on where and so

00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.119
we can get into

00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:39.119
just drama you know you just let the

00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.220
thing you you know you shouldn't say say

00:35:41.220 --> 00:35:43.320
it because then the other person and

00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.020
then and then you're in this kind of

00:35:46.020 --> 00:35:47.339
like

00:35:47.339 --> 00:35:49.619
it's a way to release the energy but

00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.859
it's not necessarily

00:35:51.859 --> 00:35:54.720
productive it can be sometimes sometimes

00:35:54.720 --> 00:35:56.880
you just have it out and then you laugh

00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.400
because it felt good or something but in

00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:03.660
general we tend to escape having to be

00:36:03.660 --> 00:36:07.200
with the uncomfortable energy by uh

00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:09.119
talking it's just like when you meet

00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:11.820
your kid and you meet like someone you

00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:14.339
have a crush on and you can't stand that

00:36:14.339 --> 00:36:16.440
you know there's a lot of energy and

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.420
then you go oh oh oh and you say

00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:20.460
something stupid because a lot of that

00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:24.440
energy comes out of our mouths uh

00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:28.820
whether we we want it to or not

00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:31.260
uh horses do the same thing when they

00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:34.800
when when they're kind of ruminating on

00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.220
something that's not clear they walk

00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:39.839
around the barn and they go like this

00:36:39.839 --> 00:36:41.700
with their mouths as if they're grazing

00:36:41.700 --> 00:36:43.320
on something

00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.839
and that and it's just it's kind of a

00:36:45.839 --> 00:36:49.440
very primordial uh version of what we do

00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.700
our mouth our mouth starts to

00:36:52.700 --> 00:36:55.020
like that

00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:57.780
it's and it's kind of like we all have

00:36:57.780 --> 00:37:01.980
uh uh Tourette's in a way I mean we're

00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:03.180
all a little bit like you know what

00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:05.520
Tourette's syndrome is is like when yeah

00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:07.380
people get aroused and then they go like

00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:10.380
 all these swear words come out

00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:13.760
it's a little bit like that baby

00:37:14.040 --> 00:37:17.339
um you have um a side note on anxiety

00:37:17.339 --> 00:37:22.320
which I thought was so helpful and sharp

00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:24.540
um it's the dispositional state that

00:37:24.540 --> 00:37:26.700
results in the down regulation of

00:37:26.700 --> 00:37:28.619
arousal energy

00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:30.900
I think you mean from like when I've

00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:35.760
downright so so I I had something I I

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:37.380
was gonna give I gave a presentation

00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:40.500
yesterday and I didn't give myself the

00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:42.839
time the arousal was there I knew what I

00:37:42.839 --> 00:37:45.300
wanted and I didn't give myself time to

00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.000
achieve what I wanted and

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.460
um and I went into anxiety so that

00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:52.500
definition of anxiety is really really

00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:54.599
helpful because

00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.060
it sort of keys me back to well what was

00:37:57.060 --> 00:37:59.760
the arousal what did I really want right

00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.220
how could I have you know created

00:38:02.220 --> 00:38:05.400
actions that satisfy rather than cut

00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.320
myself off unconsciously and then going

00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.079
around in the state of ah so I just want

00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.520
to name that because that was I thought

00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:14.760
it very very helpful yeah it's once you

00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.220
understand it it's very clear signature

00:38:17.220 --> 00:38:19.980
like once I had to give a speech and at

00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:23.099
the time I wasn't I was I was very uh

00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:26.520
panicked when I gave speeches and at

00:38:26.520 --> 00:38:28.140
this point I had to give a speech about

00:38:28.140 --> 00:38:30.660
someone who had died and I and and it

00:38:30.660 --> 00:38:33.119
was going to be very sad and I didn't

00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.220
want to be sad I didn't want to be yet

00:38:35.220 --> 00:38:38.099
again get on stage and cry and it that's

00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:40.140
what it felt like it didn't feel sad it

00:38:40.140 --> 00:38:42.300
didn't feel like anything except

00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:46.200
anxiety like like the body's like well

00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:48.540
what are you gonna do with all this and

00:38:48.540 --> 00:38:50.280
I ended up giving the speech and just

00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.220
I'm like you know what just be sad and I

00:38:53.220 --> 00:38:56.099
cried and it was very powerful just to

00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:58.619
be able to be that

00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:02.760
what was authentic anyways uh

00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.640
but that's what that's what anxiety is

00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:07.380
um

00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:10.560
uh yeah

00:39:10.560 --> 00:39:12.359
people use the word different in

00:39:12.359 --> 00:39:14.599
different ways but this is the technical

00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.400
technical definition

00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.060
the field

00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.940
Alex

00:39:24.060 --> 00:39:26.820
um I wanted to see if we could revisit

00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:29.220
the The Narrative The Narrative function

00:39:29.220 --> 00:39:31.200
a little bit and

00:39:31.200 --> 00:39:33.359
just maybe distinguish between what's

00:39:33.359 --> 00:39:34.980
useful and and not so useful about

00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:36.359
narrative

00:39:36.359 --> 00:39:40.740
and um I was just thinking about the

00:39:40.740 --> 00:39:42.960
the short the short duration narrative

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:44.460
like the mother

00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:47.460
um freaking out or sort of creating a

00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:48.900
narrative of

00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:50.940
what was the reaction to falling down

00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:55.560
that's a real short temporal narrative

00:39:55.560 --> 00:39:58.440
um whereas a something like once upon a

00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.079
time in Piglet and Pooh you know there's

00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:02.579
a little bit more of a

00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:05.400
of the time expansive of expansion of

00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:07.740
time that sort of allows one to see that

00:40:07.740 --> 00:40:09.660
maybe what is bad in the short term

00:40:09.660 --> 00:40:12.300
actually is what is needed in the long

00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:13.619
term

00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:15.780
and then how myth

00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.760
you know at the mythical level you're

00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:19.920
really expanding time across generations

00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.200
and you know deep time

00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:24.800
and I was just kind of

00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.619
interested in this idea of like

00:40:27.619 --> 00:40:30.300
refreshing the myth

00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:33.680
to update sort of updating our myths

00:40:33.680 --> 00:40:37.320
to and uh so that they're relevant

00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.560
to the information that we have now

00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:43.859
and I was wondering about is there a

00:40:43.859 --> 00:40:46.619
sort of a built-in

00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:49.339
filter

00:40:49.740 --> 00:40:52.440
um let's just say if we had access to

00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.380
Long long-term pattern detection which

00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:56.880
you might call that Intuition or

00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:58.079
something

00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.359
is there a kind of like a Fail-Safe

00:41:00.359 --> 00:41:02.160
against

00:41:02.160 --> 00:41:05.000
sort of like polarized short-term

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.920
reactive narrative thinking that

00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.200
actually shuts the intuition down

00:41:12.540 --> 00:41:15.780
um is is that uh like for example if you

00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.520
see somebody carrying a sign out in the

00:41:17.520 --> 00:41:19.980
street that says the world is ending

00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:22.859
you know a prophet who sees maybe a

00:41:22.859 --> 00:41:24.359
long-term pattern

00:41:24.359 --> 00:41:27.780
but there we don't trust that

00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:30.300
because it seems like fear-based and

00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:32.400
reactive

00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.380
so I'm just wondering if there if

00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:38.420
there's any sort of like intrinsic

00:41:38.420 --> 00:41:41.339
Fail-Safe that like I've and I've heard

00:41:41.339 --> 00:41:43.380
this people say that like well how do

00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:45.540
you know it's your intuition well you

00:41:45.540 --> 00:41:47.099
know it because you're really calm and

00:41:47.099 --> 00:41:48.540
you feel like in the state of

00:41:48.540 --> 00:41:50.760
equilibrium and then the information

00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.119
comes it's never a fear-based thing

00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.000
so I'm just kind of curious is that

00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.579
something that you've come across

00:41:59.579 --> 00:42:02.640
in the in your studies

00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:06.980
of the body's affective States

00:42:07.140 --> 00:42:11.040
okay so uh uh we will go into intuition

00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.030
and

00:42:12.030 --> 00:42:14.339
[Music]

00:42:14.339 --> 00:42:16.619
a manplex questions

00:42:16.619 --> 00:42:19.619
um and they're questions that can't be

00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:21.480
answered without us building more

00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.359
capacity right so

00:42:24.359 --> 00:42:27.359
um how do you know it let's not even

00:42:27.359 --> 00:42:29.760
take something as Extreme as that how do

00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:31.980
you know if

00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:37.140
um you are uh seeing something or it you

00:42:37.140 --> 00:42:40.079
know like for example what we're trying

00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.420
to do today is make sure we know the

00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:44.579
difference between an affect and an

00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:47.780
emotion and an emotion has thought

00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:51.720
impact into it so what we're trying to

00:42:51.720 --> 00:42:54.960
do is get so it's very easy for us to

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.540
know this is an affect oh that's a

00:42:57.540 --> 00:42:58.260
thought

00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:01.020
this is now intuition is much more

00:43:01.020 --> 00:43:04.740
subtle but 99.9 of the people can't tell

00:43:04.740 --> 00:43:06.359
the difference between

00:43:06.359 --> 00:43:09.359
an affect and an emotion they can't they

00:43:09.359 --> 00:43:12.119
can't they can't discern that they've

00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.780
added a thought to a bodily experience

00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:18.780
and that they have either that thought

00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:22.500
is conditioned it's habituated it's ad

00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.560
hoc or maybe it's not useful but you

00:43:25.560 --> 00:43:27.780
can't even ask yourself that if you

00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:29.280
can't separate

00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:31.619
what the body is doing from what the

00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:34.380
virtual part of the body is doing and

00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:36.960
most people can't separate it in fact

00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.359
most people I I'm working with a great

00:43:39.359 --> 00:43:42.780
crew now of embodiment workers who are

00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:44.220
realizing

00:43:44.220 --> 00:43:46.740
like this one woman finally said I don't

00:43:46.740 --> 00:43:48.240
do embodiment

00:43:48.240 --> 00:43:51.420
I work in the imaginal like like finally

00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.420
she realized like she's dealing with the

00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:58.339
virtual mind the you know and so so so

00:43:58.339 --> 00:44:01.859
we can answer I can answer that on the

00:44:01.859 --> 00:44:04.440
level of intuition in the exact same

00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.599
Precision that I can answer the

00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:10.700
difference between affect and a thought

00:44:10.700 --> 00:44:15.119
it's clear as day to the body it's not

00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.099
clear to the mind that's trying to

00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:19.440
figure it out

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.240
and so

00:44:21.240 --> 00:44:25.380
this work can have surgical precision

00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:28.500
in the but the only the body can discern

00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:31.260
it just like those practices where we

00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:32.880
had those colors that were almost

00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:35.460
identical and you couldn't sit there and

00:44:35.460 --> 00:44:38.579
go like well that a then B you had to

00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:42.180
only the eyes the perceptions could

00:44:42.180 --> 00:44:43.859
discern it

00:44:43.859 --> 00:44:47.640
and so all the work is at that all the

00:44:47.640 --> 00:44:50.339
Precision is in the body

00:44:50.339 --> 00:44:53.460
which makes the myth and the story very

00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:56.540
coarse grained

00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:59.040
very very coarse grain and once it

00:44:59.040 --> 00:45:00.839
becomes a symbol it's even more core

00:45:00.839 --> 00:45:03.380
strained

00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.920
so this is

00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.400
you know when I'm doing this

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.940
I'll watch YouTube

00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:17.819
good question John

00:45:17.819 --> 00:45:20.640
is related to narrative and the story

00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:23.460
and to what uh rise has brought up maybe

00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:25.560
you know from self to family to

00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:29.579
community to try to uh Society to and

00:45:29.579 --> 00:45:32.819
ancestors all the whole ball of wax so

00:45:32.819 --> 00:45:35.760
so if we we have to develop have our own

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.440
personal narrative our own personal

00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.260
story but then within that we have to

00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.500
recede back to affect and uh control

00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:45.599
emotion and develop the proper

00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.720
disposition of states to uh develop all

00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:51.540
of those aspects or uh will this come

00:45:51.540 --> 00:45:53.700
later in the course so if you could

00:45:53.700 --> 00:45:56.220
address that a little bit Yeah I think

00:45:56.220 --> 00:45:58.859
we talk about pure abstractions even at

00:45:58.859 --> 00:46:01.020
some point like why do we even have them

00:46:01.020 --> 00:46:04.319
but I and for this module

00:46:04.319 --> 00:46:09.319
you will be would be surprised

00:46:09.839 --> 00:46:11.460
how much

00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:13.740
you see first of all what's happening is

00:46:13.740 --> 00:46:17.099
I can feel people wouldn't get them even

00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:19.260
imagine living without a story who would

00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:21.480
I be if I didn't

00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.400
have the story of I was born here in the

00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.920
America that's called The Narrative self

00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:28.980
and there's a phase at which that goes

00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:31.140
away you see it it's just it's an

00:46:31.140 --> 00:46:32.880
imposter

00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.079
it's just it's just an imposter uh and

00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:38.880
so just one of these a lot of these

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.880
questions about story and myth and the

00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.640
power and we need story that can be

00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:46.980
investigated you should examine it why

00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:50.460
in this court of the body

00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:51.780
you're defending

00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.940
[Music]

00:46:53.940 --> 00:47:00.560
the story why is that why is that

00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:04.140
my client the body

00:47:04.140 --> 00:47:07.319
and here my client the story

00:47:07.319 --> 00:47:09.780
I want to defend my client

00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:12.180
why is that

00:47:12.180 --> 00:47:16.099
that's an interesting question

00:47:17.700 --> 00:47:21.980
that's a worthwhile exploration

00:47:23.339 --> 00:47:25.800
well it seemed to get it Terence point

00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.380
about you know communication and in

00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:30.599
symbology and how we

00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:32.339
how we communicate our internal

00:47:32.339 --> 00:47:36.180
experience to each other I Ah that's not

00:47:36.180 --> 00:47:37.680
true

00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:40.740
and I can prove it to you some of you

00:47:40.740 --> 00:47:43.260
have been in my Retreats where we get

00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:46.260
rid of all the words and then people

00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:48.480
wonder and you look around and all of a

00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.579
sudden all this meaning is being made

00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:53.700
and I don't know if the ones that were

00:47:53.700 --> 00:47:55.680
here are a number of Tom are going where

00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:57.839
did the words go and

00:47:57.839 --> 00:48:01.560
and then people said and then he said

00:48:01.560 --> 00:48:03.900
if there's no words then how are we

00:48:03.900 --> 00:48:05.540
making meaning

00:48:05.540 --> 00:48:08.940
boom it's in the participation and

00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:10.980
science tells us this is true this blah

00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:12.780
blah blah you ever see two those videos

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:15.119
are two little kids they're twins and

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:16.619
they haven't learned to talk yet and

00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:18.359
they go blah they're not using words but

00:48:18.359 --> 00:48:21.020
they're making meaning

00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:24.000
even that

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.940
is not a useful story that if we didn't

00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:28.740
have words

00:48:28.740 --> 00:48:30.300
we couldn't

00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:34.140
share our internal experience and what's

00:48:34.140 --> 00:48:37.200
even a bigger mind is the fact that

00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:39.480
we think we accurately accurately share

00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:41.579
our internal experience with the words

00:48:41.579 --> 00:48:42.660
we use

00:48:42.660 --> 00:48:45.000
is why we deceive ourselves in each

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:48.740
other about our Eternal experience

00:48:48.740 --> 00:48:52.460
that's more the truth

00:48:52.740 --> 00:48:55.560
it's not a joke this is actually the

00:48:55.560 --> 00:48:57.800
truth

00:49:04.560 --> 00:49:07.740
Darren what are you saying you're muted

00:49:07.740 --> 00:49:10.980
yeah I just said you're muted I get it

00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:14.099
yeah totally so many of the things that

00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:16.680
we think of as our internal experience

00:49:16.680 --> 00:49:19.800
are still considerably external

00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:24.020
to internal experience exactly

00:49:24.859 --> 00:49:29.700
so we have to try to like this is a new

00:49:29.700 --> 00:49:33.660
theory of the body right this is this is

00:49:33.660 --> 00:49:35.099
what

00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:37.500
we are you don't have to take it all

00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:40.680
Hook Line and Sinker it's an opportunity

00:49:40.680 --> 00:49:43.740
to investigate something that I'm being

00:49:43.740 --> 00:49:45.540
provocative about but I also really

00:49:45.540 --> 00:49:48.599
believe it and and

00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:51.119
it's not for me true because it's

00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:53.099
conceptually interesting it's because

00:49:53.099 --> 00:49:54.820
I've done the experiments

00:49:54.820 --> 00:49:56.819
[Music]

00:49:56.819 --> 00:49:58.740
and we'll get into intuition and all

00:49:58.740 --> 00:50:03.060
that there is a place we have to reclaim

00:50:03.060 --> 00:50:06.359
the whole Human Experience right I'm not

00:50:06.359 --> 00:50:08.040
repressing like we should all stop

00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:09.420
talking now

00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:13.020
never don't talk it's not helpful

00:50:13.020 --> 00:50:17.700
oh I'm talking so we will reclaim it and

00:50:17.700 --> 00:50:20.099
find its rightly place even pure

00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:24.000
abstractions we're going to reclaim

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:26.400
they want to get it right

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:29.160
this time

00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:31.900
or at least improve on

00:50:31.900 --> 00:50:35.039
[Music]

00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:42.720
I don't feel like raising my hand

00:50:42.720 --> 00:50:45.720
digitally I'll just speak up

00:50:45.720 --> 00:50:46.859
um

00:50:46.859 --> 00:50:49.079
I think that that

00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:50.940
you ask the question what's the

00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:53.280
importance of this module

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.099
I think that that is the importance of

00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:57.720
this module

00:50:57.720 --> 00:51:00.319
foreign

00:51:04.040 --> 00:51:08.059
how do we reclaim

00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:10.680
so in our little breakout and I want to

00:51:10.680 --> 00:51:13.640
just report in

00:51:14.339 --> 00:51:18.500
I got to know two new people

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:22.200
and there was so much trust

00:51:22.200 --> 00:51:24.420
you know the way I look at things Bonnie

00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:28.740
so much love in the Breakout

00:51:28.740 --> 00:51:32.059
that there was this

00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:35.819
really deep personal sharing

00:51:35.819 --> 00:51:38.760
and what we got into

00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.640
about the chapter is

00:51:41.640 --> 00:51:44.099
you know like your gesture when you were

00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:47.059
talking about how language

00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:49.619
transforms when you go into the body

00:51:49.619 --> 00:51:54.839
even collectively your gesture was

00:51:54.839 --> 00:51:57.359
the story changes

00:51:57.359 --> 00:52:01.200
we didn't go the story changes

00:52:01.200 --> 00:52:04.920
the story changes so we got into

00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.579
our personal loops

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:12.420
and the importance of this module is to

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:15.240
break up those

00:52:15.240 --> 00:52:20.000
we're breaking up our loops

00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:24.780
and and it's inspiring

00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:28.500
to break Loop and look forward and

00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.540
reclaim something I don't know what it

00:52:30.540 --> 00:52:32.460
is yet

00:52:32.460 --> 00:52:33.980
foreign

00:52:33.980 --> 00:52:36.780
so this is a big Insight it wasn't

00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:39.720
really in the chapter is doing a

00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:43.579
synoptic integration as John

00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:45.859
um

00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:50.700
let's say we

00:52:50.700 --> 00:52:54.359
were an alien race trying to understand

00:52:54.359 --> 00:52:57.300
ourselves

00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:59.760
and

00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.480
we and we know how bodies work in minds

00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:05.520
and stuff and then we come we come

00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:08.760
across this species called humans maybe

00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:11.940
it's in in culturally it's worse in our

00:53:11.940 --> 00:53:13.500
culture we might actually be able to

00:53:13.500 --> 00:53:15.720
find humans on the Earth today certainly

00:53:15.720 --> 00:53:18.619
we could find many years ago

00:53:18.619 --> 00:53:22.200
where they did not talk to themselves in

00:53:22.200 --> 00:53:24.900
their heads to figure things out

00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:26.700
and then as an alien you would say that

00:53:26.700 --> 00:53:28.740
is like ridiculous why do people use

00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:32.339
words to talk to themselves

00:53:32.339 --> 00:53:35.339
now I understand using words if you're

00:53:35.339 --> 00:53:37.440
practicing a script I want to hear it in

00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.359
my head or something like this

00:53:39.359 --> 00:53:41.300
now this is a point of contention

00:53:41.300 --> 00:53:45.119
because uh

00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:47.300
um

00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.700
and we'll get to it but but there's two

00:53:50.700 --> 00:53:53.160
types of you know so so there's there's

00:53:53.160 --> 00:53:55.500
an interesting question of why we use

00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:58.500
words to talk to ourselves because we're

00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:01.400
right here like the thing

00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:04.380
is working all the time we don't use

00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:07.859
words to tell our heart to pump right we

00:54:07.859 --> 00:54:10.079
don't we don't go in and try to

00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:12.420
micromanage by telling

00:54:12.420 --> 00:54:15.180
our bodies to do stuff and so the body

00:54:15.180 --> 00:54:17.339
makes meaning

00:54:17.339 --> 00:54:19.440
so it's kind of silly we use words to

00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.700
try to make meaning now we can use words

00:54:22.700 --> 00:54:25.559
to express the meaning that is being

00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:27.980
made

00:54:28.200 --> 00:54:31.400
that's something

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:34.020
um yeah so this is an interesting

00:54:34.020 --> 00:54:37.200
question uh in the first place now it's

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:40.400
it's going to be countered

00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:42.359
by

00:54:42.359 --> 00:54:44.359
um

00:54:44.700 --> 00:54:48.900
some cognitive science says think that's

00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:52.920
what think thinking is thinking is

00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:57.660
um dialogic Even in our own Heads This

00:54:57.660 --> 00:55:00.720
is why we use words because we split we

00:55:00.720 --> 00:55:03.000
make a simulation that we're having a

00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:04.980
dialogue maybe between two different

00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:06.839
perspectives or something right that's a

00:55:06.839 --> 00:55:08.099
simulation

00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:10.200
we'll talk about that but you're right

00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:12.900
well what is usually

00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:16.800
not useful was the loopy loopy stories

00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.140
that just they accompany every

00:55:19.140 --> 00:55:22.800
experience we get to see them there they

00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.980
are again and so they rid us of the

00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:30.000
ability to have a new experience every

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.900
moment that we are experiencing right

00:55:32.900 --> 00:55:37.200
and so uh those are those are important

00:55:37.200 --> 00:55:38.819
distinctions

00:55:38.819 --> 00:55:42.119
well not only a new experience Bonnie

00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:43.140
but

00:55:43.140 --> 00:55:46.079
a free choice

00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:48.359
I mean that's really where we're headed

00:55:48.359 --> 00:55:54.420
is what you call robust action protocols

00:55:54.420 --> 00:55:56.880
so how do you get to a robust action

00:55:56.880 --> 00:55:59.400
protocol

00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:01.500
you don't

00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:04.339
exactly

00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:12.540
you do it little by little as you keep

00:56:12.540 --> 00:56:14.819
going back to your right disposition or

00:56:14.819 --> 00:56:17.339
stay into an embodied nature you do it

00:56:17.339 --> 00:56:19.800
little by little and develop

00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.520
search

00:56:37.859 --> 00:56:40.440
before I come Alex is here we're running

00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:42.839
up against time is there any

00:56:42.839 --> 00:56:44.940
other comments from

00:56:44.940 --> 00:56:49.099
that wants to happen here

00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:55.440
I feel like the mother that won't let

00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:58.140
her oldest son have thirds because her

00:56:58.140 --> 00:57:01.940
middle son hasn't had seconds yet

00:57:03.720 --> 00:57:06.720
foreign

00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:13.280
thanks Mom

00:57:19.680 --> 00:57:24.140
yeah I just I was just wanting to

00:57:24.359 --> 00:57:26.700
something that really kind of rose to

00:57:26.700 --> 00:57:29.700
the top was this idea of disrupting I

00:57:29.700 --> 00:57:31.319
think that David said like disrupting

00:57:31.319 --> 00:57:33.300
the loops or disrupting the narratives

00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:35.220
this is something that is was talked

00:57:35.220 --> 00:57:36.780
about like

00:57:36.780 --> 00:57:39.660
has been talked about in the past

00:57:39.660 --> 00:57:41.460
and I'm just wondering about the

00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:43.440
distinction between you know the

00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.200
disruption and the refreshing of

00:57:46.200 --> 00:57:48.300
it's like there's a these narratives

00:57:48.300 --> 00:57:52.339
that you know sort of a memory of

00:57:52.339 --> 00:57:56.280
symbols store information so it's like

00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:59.640
they're a memory tool so it seems like

00:57:59.640 --> 00:58:01.140
you know

00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:04.140
it's maybe when I think about disrupting

00:58:04.140 --> 00:58:06.920
The Narrative it seems much more

00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:09.480
rebellious in a sense and and maybe

00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:12.300
that's needed and in in some cases but

00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:14.579
there's also this word of refreshing

00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:17.640
like the refresh rate of a yes monitor

00:58:17.640 --> 00:58:19.140
on your computer you're like you know

00:58:19.140 --> 00:58:21.119
you need it to keep up with the data

00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.280
it's like a real-time stream that's

00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:26.400
something about the quality of our bit

00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:29.040
our ability to have our narrative

00:58:29.040 --> 00:58:31.680
refreshed

00:58:31.680 --> 00:58:32.880
and

00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:35.280
that I that I just just sing the life

00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:37.140
for me and I wanted to make that

00:58:37.140 --> 00:58:39.059
distinction between refresh and and

00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:40.440
disrupt

00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:43.859
yeah so memory is a big deal I think we

00:58:43.859 --> 00:58:46.020
do a whole month on memory

00:58:46.020 --> 00:58:49.319
memories uh hard might be one of the

00:58:49.319 --> 00:58:51.720
hardest ones by the time we were there

00:58:51.720 --> 00:58:56.119
it's it's it'd be quite challenging

00:58:56.640 --> 00:59:00.119
um and and

00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.460
there are also a lot of confusion like

00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:06.599
this question of where is memory stored

00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:09.599
it's not stored anywhere

00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.640
we have got some metaphor we use

00:59:13.640 --> 00:59:17.700
when we talk to talk about memory

00:59:17.700 --> 00:59:21.660
um I like the metaphor of refresh

00:59:21.660 --> 00:59:22.500
um

00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:25.980
and so the new theory of the body is

00:59:25.980 --> 00:59:29.220
going to have to account for the fact

00:59:29.220 --> 00:59:31.380
that memory is not

00:59:31.380 --> 00:59:34.020
stored anywhere

00:59:34.020 --> 00:59:37.260
meaning is not in the words and memory

00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:39.299
is not stored

00:59:39.299 --> 00:59:42.059
anywhere those are two axioms of our new

00:59:42.059 --> 00:59:43.859
theory of the body if once you get

00:59:43.859 --> 00:59:45.720
around to understanding it they'll

00:59:45.720 --> 00:59:48.180
that'll be very clear

00:59:48.180 --> 00:59:50.960
foreign

01:00:10.099 --> 01:00:13.920
okay yeah it was great it was great

01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.920
um

01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:18.599
um

01:00:18.599 --> 01:00:21.780
now the pace the pace was you know was

01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:25.260
fast but the the the the

01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.140
there's a lot of learning going on so

01:00:28.140 --> 01:00:30.900
um yeah so I thank you so much for the

01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:31.799
launch

01:00:31.799 --> 01:00:34.680
of this series and I hope you have a

01:00:34.680 --> 01:00:36.130
great day

01:00:36.130 --> 01:00:39.260
[Music]



## Cohort 2

00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.500
foreign

00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:06.000
hello

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.420
everyone Hi Victor nice to see you hi

00:00:09.420 --> 00:00:13.160
Kate nice to see you again

00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:15.599
hi Liz

00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.300
Liz I remember your comment I think

00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:21.060
you're building on something here and

00:00:21.060 --> 00:00:23.699
Cheryl's there at MK I don't know if I

00:00:23.699 --> 00:00:25.560
met MK

00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:30.080
um so uh this is

00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:34.320
the uh module the first module that's

00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:36.239
kind of a funny word but this is the

00:00:36.239 --> 00:00:41.160
first module of the series for 2023

00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:43.980
we are in service like we have a project

00:00:43.980 --> 00:00:47.160
we're working on a new theory of the

00:00:47.160 --> 00:00:48.120
body

00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:51.780
and that word theory is

00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:54.600
is uh

00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.120
not meant to scare you

00:00:57.120 --> 00:00:59.879
because we mean it the way we talked

00:00:59.879 --> 00:01:03.480
about how the child

00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:05.880
um how the child

00:01:05.880 --> 00:01:08.000
when they're

00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.619
growing up they're really young and they

00:01:10.619 --> 00:01:13.020
don't know how things work how do how do

00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:15.540
things move do I have to touch them

00:01:15.540 --> 00:01:18.659
uh Allison gotnik says they come up with

00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:21.360
hunches they build like theories about

00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:24.659
how the world works and we want to be at

00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:29.100
that level of beginner's mind like

00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:31.500
well how does the body really work like

00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:33.659
how is this really happening and what

00:01:33.659 --> 00:01:36.060
kind of theory would I build about it

00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:38.100
what would I have to say about my

00:01:38.100 --> 00:01:42.180
experience of my own body and so uh so

00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:44.119
that's how we're using the word theory

00:01:44.119 --> 00:01:47.340
although we will end up probably

00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:49.140
producing

00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:54.299
um something that we might share so

00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:58.380
um with that in mind uh this modules on

00:01:58.380 --> 00:01:59.579
affect

00:01:59.579 --> 00:02:01.619
and emotion

00:02:01.619 --> 00:02:03.540
the distinction between an affect

00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:05.219
emotion

00:02:05.219 --> 00:02:07.500
and what's more important is the

00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:10.259
interface between them like when does

00:02:10.259 --> 00:02:12.920
affect become emotion

00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:15.900
but we also added a deeper level which

00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:19.080
is this notion of dispositional State

00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.080
which is not yet an affect

00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.660
and works with this concept of sub

00:02:24.660 --> 00:02:27.420
threshold and your dispositional state

00:02:27.420 --> 00:02:31.080
as Liz said the other day

00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.360
it's like there's so much possibility

00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.060
I'm not really committed to fear or

00:02:36.060 --> 00:02:39.660
anger or seeking I'm kind of in the

00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:42.140
position

00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:46.260
of being able to respond to all of that

00:02:46.260 --> 00:02:49.700
so we're working with these terms

00:02:49.700 --> 00:02:53.580
because it's important for us

00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:56.700
to be precise about

00:02:56.700 --> 00:03:01.019
the micro phenomenology of the body

00:03:01.019 --> 00:03:04.860
so that then we can

00:03:04.860 --> 00:03:06.840
create

00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.540
a way to talk about this

00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:12.720
that helps solve real world problems

00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:14.760
instead of just maybe intellectual

00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:16.019
problems

00:03:16.019 --> 00:03:19.379
so everything we talk about today we

00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:22.440
want to have Precision in language but

00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:25.620
we also want to say ah

00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:28.980
that's what you're pointing to

00:03:28.980 --> 00:03:32.220
this kind of experience versus ah that

00:03:32.220 --> 00:03:33.659
kind of experience has already gotten

00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:36.180
way out of hand or something so as we

00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:40.440
keep going we want to make sure that we

00:03:40.440 --> 00:03:41.519
tie

00:03:41.519 --> 00:03:44.280
the word we agree on

00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.680
with the experience that we have in the

00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.500
body does that make sense

00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:51.599
um Okay so

00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.480
did everybody read that this uh affect

00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:58.019
and emotion and disposition article so

00:03:58.019 --> 00:03:59.580
we're going to draw on that

00:03:59.580 --> 00:04:01.319
foreign

00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.440
yes Victor yes

00:04:04.440 --> 00:04:06.000
big smile

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:09.959
so what we're going to do is uh we have

00:04:09.959 --> 00:04:13.739
a new design for this year which I think

00:04:13.739 --> 00:04:15.780
is fantastic

00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:20.220
and I had to be kind of nagged nagged

00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:21.900
into it a little

00:04:21.900 --> 00:04:23.460
because

00:04:23.460 --> 00:04:24.660
but

00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.120
um what we're going to do is we're going

00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:31.919
to go into a uh some breakup or breakout

00:04:31.919 --> 00:04:33.180
rooms

00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:36.360
until the top of the hour so it'd be 50

00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.940
50 minutes today

00:04:38.940 --> 00:04:43.080
and you're gonna have a discussion on

00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:46.380
some of these terms some of the and you

00:04:46.380 --> 00:04:48.780
might want to bring up the article if

00:04:48.780 --> 00:04:51.180
you want to see there's a little sidebar

00:04:51.180 --> 00:04:53.120
on shame if you want to talk about shame

00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:55.500
and the difference between shame and

00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:56.520
guilt

00:04:56.520 --> 00:05:00.320
and some other things in there and

00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:04.259
you're going to share like

00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:07.020
what what was Salient for you what

00:05:07.020 --> 00:05:08.940
seemed interesting but also your

00:05:08.940 --> 00:05:10.860
questions like I don't even know what

00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:12.540
she was talking about there

00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:17.880
and some people have already uh done

00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:19.680
some conversations on this so they'll be

00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:23.160
able to help you but really to like have

00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.440
you know it's a campus if you can

00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:27.720
remember when you were in school and it

00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:30.600
wasn't horrible and you hung out and

00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.900
you really had a conversation

00:05:33.900 --> 00:05:35.940
about like

00:05:35.940 --> 00:05:38.340
what is the material

00:05:38.340 --> 00:05:41.160
what are they talking about how does it

00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:42.840
how does it make sense for me and to

00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:44.759
share that because even if you're

00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.520
sharing something like like I have no

00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:49.020
idea what you're talking about that

00:05:49.020 --> 00:05:50.580
Sparks

00:05:50.580 --> 00:05:52.680
a response

00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.080
that the other person may not have

00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:58.020
thought about right so

00:05:58.020 --> 00:06:00.539
um so this is the power of of dialogue

00:06:00.539 --> 00:06:02.520
and I know

00:06:02.520 --> 00:06:05.940
um some of you actually work in this

00:06:05.940 --> 00:06:10.080
domain and so if if you share actual

00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:11.940
stories of what works for you or what

00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:13.259
didn't work for you that's always

00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:16.320
helpful for other people

00:06:16.320 --> 00:06:19.520
are there any questions

00:06:21.780 --> 00:06:24.360
so there's one two three four five six

00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.120
seven eight nine ten

00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.819
um I have a question

00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:31.880
David because you were here do you think

00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:35.759
dyads would work I have 10 people

00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.100
do you think I should have threes when I

00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:40.759
have one four

00:06:48.840 --> 00:06:51.300
um I I would say threes and one four

00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:52.860
okay

00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:55.139
or two vibes

00:06:55.139 --> 00:06:57.660
I think five is a lot

00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:00.900
okay who else who else has an idea about

00:07:00.900 --> 00:07:02.400
the size

00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:07.880
maybe two fives for 40 50 minutes

00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:10.740
no threes and fours

00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:13.020
okay we got threes and four threes and

00:07:13.020 --> 00:07:14.759
two twos

00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:17.580
instead of one four

00:07:17.580 --> 00:07:22.460
uh uh that's interesting

00:07:23.699 --> 00:07:25.440
I'm gonna do threes and fourths it's

00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:27.479
kind of hard to do two twos and then I

00:07:27.479 --> 00:07:29.940
have to decide and then I feel weird

00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:33.060
because it wasn't randomized and the

00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:35.880
computer seems to do this like magical

00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:39.479
thing about how it pairs people up so

00:07:39.479 --> 00:07:43.020
okay so you have 50 minutes let alone to

00:07:43.020 --> 00:07:46.500
50 minutes and some people

00:07:46.500 --> 00:07:49.080
um yeah don't be shy to take the lead if

00:07:49.080 --> 00:07:51.599
you've if you've read really read hard

00:07:51.599 --> 00:07:53.940
uh

00:07:53.940 --> 00:07:57.120
um and we'll see if the computer how how

00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:59.880
it lines you up and then when we come

00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:02.340
back we'll have an hour for you to

00:08:02.340 --> 00:08:05.880
presence what you said what was maybe a

00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:08.639
contention what was your confusion but

00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.819
also what you really if you really

00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:13.740
came to a point where something landed

00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:16.500
for you that would be a great share and

00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:19.319
then we can we can build on that

00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:21.120
okay

00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.879
all righty

00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.099
so let's see

00:08:26.099 --> 00:08:28.259
to

00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:31.319
two oh two to three participants three

00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:34.140
to four participants in the room Bonita

00:08:34.140 --> 00:08:37.140
yeah perhaps we've had this kind of um

00:08:37.140 --> 00:08:40.200
of an intro to classes in the past and

00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:42.959
if so then I I just may not be terribly

00:08:42.959 --> 00:08:47.040
familiar so what is the uh the prompts

00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:49.980
that we're going in with or okay so

00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:53.839
there was a uh the course content called

00:08:53.839 --> 00:08:58.320
affected emotion slash disposition

00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.019
and that's what you'll be talking about

00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:04.800
oh okay if you want to bring up that uh

00:09:04.800 --> 00:09:06.779
on your screen

00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:08.459
um that's cool

00:09:08.459 --> 00:09:09.899
um

00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:12.120
or the conversation might go well like

00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.279
what was important to you what seemed to

00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.980
wear to you what was provocative

00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:18.720
oh I didn't know there was a difference

00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.000
between shame and guilt you know one of

00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:24.180
the things you'll notice is that

00:09:24.180 --> 00:09:26.640
there are other ways to use these words

00:09:26.640 --> 00:09:30.240
we're trying to use them the same way

00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:32.820
in our group so that we can make

00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:34.560
progress

00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:38.040
so understanding like oh that's what we

00:09:38.040 --> 00:09:39.959
mean by this and that's what we mean by

00:09:39.959 --> 00:09:43.080
that and here's the distinctions uh

00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:44.700
that's the kind of conversation we're

00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:47.399
going to have and I'm sure you'll be in

00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.339
good hands because there's some

00:09:50.339 --> 00:09:55.560
uh yeah all right so 50 minutes

00:09:55.560 --> 00:10:00.440
uh I'll make it 47 minutes okay

00:10:00.660 --> 00:10:02.160
see

00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:04.339
okay

00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:37.620
okay my friends

00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:40.820
what did we discover

00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:43.140
what do we have

00:10:43.140 --> 00:10:47.959
questions what do we want to start

00:10:57.260 --> 00:11:02.940
okay so in um in our our session the the

00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:04.680
question that I ended up with at the

00:11:04.680 --> 00:11:08.420
very end was we were talking about

00:11:08.420 --> 00:11:09.000
[Music]

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:10.680
um

00:11:10.680 --> 00:11:15.060
her affects like leading leading to

00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:18.959
um like emotions and that like you know

00:11:18.959 --> 00:11:20.100
it seems like

00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:21.720
I've had the experience of getting

00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.660
captured by emotions I think people have

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:27.600
but there's maybe a shift that's

00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:28.800
possible

00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:31.380
and the interstitial like place you know

00:11:31.380 --> 00:11:32.360
between

00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.820
uh Earth you know before

00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:38.399
or prior to like yeah that emotional

00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.579
arising and so like the uh

00:11:41.579 --> 00:11:44.700
the question that I have the question

00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:46.740
that came up was like

00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:50.100
um so what are what are some what are

00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:52.380
what are what is the shift

00:11:52.380 --> 00:11:57.120
and maybe what are some of the uh

00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.279
um

00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:03.260
you know what's around around

00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:07.790
[Music]

00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:12.300
yeah you know

00:12:12.300 --> 00:12:14.040
um

00:12:14.040 --> 00:12:16.500
just know just knowing there's a

00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:19.980
distinction and what the distinction is

00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:22.380
um will help you

00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:25.019
be sensitive to the markers

00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:29.600
right so like for me A lot of times

00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:33.300
there's the voice is always here like

00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:36.180
like uh just the other day I got

00:12:36.180 --> 00:12:40.440
invited to do a workshop

00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.339
and

00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.079
I felt quite intimidated

00:12:46.079 --> 00:12:46.920
foreign

00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:50.160
so like when you feel intimidated like

00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:52.200
there's a lot going on you're kind of

00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.560
off balance and then you're just excited

00:12:55.560 --> 00:12:57.720
and the excitedness is like a little

00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.360
nervous and then the thing happens oh

00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.399
they just want you on their side so they

00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.279
can and then you know and then the whole

00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.519
thing like

00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.279
rumination and storing it and then this

00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.500
and then the story went from like a kind

00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:15.600
of aggressive story to like oh I'm gonna

00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.019
get in there and save them I mean it

00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:20.700
it's not

00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:23.240
I'm embarrassed because they're very

00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:25.139
fundamental they're like children's

00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:27.540
stories they're like oh who am I

00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:29.040
fighting I'm gonna go in there and fight

00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:31.440
there oh no no they're in there to like

00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.800
seduce me and like these stories were so

00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:37.740
compared to the invitation which was

00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:39.899
beautiful

00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:43.500
the intimidation

00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:45.959
uh

00:13:45.959 --> 00:13:48.360
just created these stories that were so

00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.060
juvenile really like like bad scripts

00:13:51.060 --> 00:13:55.260
from a grade V movie and they're

00:13:55.260 --> 00:13:58.820
compelling in a way because the

00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:02.339
the energy that's in the body wants to

00:14:02.339 --> 00:14:03.720
latch on to something and there's

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.639
nothing I can do about it the thing may

00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:07.380
or may not happen in June so it's

00:14:07.380 --> 00:14:09.600
open-ended and I can't just like grab

00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.660
something and punch it or something

00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:15.300
and the energy wants to lock on to

00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:16.380
something

00:14:16.380 --> 00:14:19.440
and so there's all these these

00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.779
these stories and uh

00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.660
yeah they just and they were all

00:14:27.660 --> 00:14:30.360
plausible and all very

00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.700
simplistic

00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.860
and

00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:36.920
um

00:14:36.959 --> 00:14:41.160
and my strategy because I've been

00:14:41.160 --> 00:14:43.620
dealing with this for a long time is to

00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.579
laugh at how

00:14:48.660 --> 00:14:51.540
how transparent the story and can be and

00:14:51.540 --> 00:14:53.279
how

00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.680
you know like

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:58.680
yeah

00:14:58.680 --> 00:15:01.920
how you and how easily gullible you can

00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:04.019
let yourself be

00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:06.240
and

00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.240
um

00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.180
but there's

00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:17.579
you know for me

00:15:17.579 --> 00:15:19.019
um

00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:21.180
oh I'll give you a concrete example you

00:15:21.180 --> 00:15:22.380
know

00:15:22.380 --> 00:15:23.519
um

00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.459
for me it's about well you don't know

00:15:26.459 --> 00:15:28.199
the stories don't give you any

00:15:28.199 --> 00:15:30.959
information they're just drama and you

00:15:30.959 --> 00:15:34.440
don't know so you just play it

00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.899
step into the next day and step into the

00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:39.120
next day and step into the next day and

00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.519
and see what's actually going on you

00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.880
don't know

00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.279
um

00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:53.040
but that Loop is real that like and then

00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:57.260
the stories come in and then it's like

00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.320
it's very interesting to watch that

00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:02.820
process happen

00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.399
and to notice the dissatisfaction with

00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.500
like

00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:08.940
I mean at a certain point then you

00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:12.560
become dissatisfied with the story

00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:16.800
and you just have to live in the

00:16:16.800 --> 00:16:19.199
the participation of it well maybe

00:16:19.199 --> 00:16:21.120
tomorrow I get closer ask a question

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.339
maybe I get closer to

00:16:23.339 --> 00:16:26.100
something or not you know like you have

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.880
to you have to act your way into the

00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:32.360
novelty

00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.600
you know how it is it's like someone's

00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.720
in a bad mood they come home

00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.720
and then it starts he's mad at me he's

00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:47.699
not mad at me is he mad at me maybe he

00:16:47.699 --> 00:16:49.259
had a bad day at work maybe I should go

00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:50.759
and do something for him if I go do

00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:52.820
something with him maybe like

00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:55.459
those are all

00:16:55.459 --> 00:16:59.459
hopelessly non-productive

00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.699
storings

00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.940
so are you asked if we found out

00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:32.280
anything in our Breakout

00:17:32.280 --> 00:17:36.860
I found out somebody is five foot four

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.600
one of these little squares is five foot

00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:41.900
four

00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.740
I'm really proud of myself I I played

00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:54.679
twice now Anna and Victor I played twice

00:17:55.020 --> 00:17:57.020
I was saying I'm

00:17:57.020 --> 00:18:01.880
seriously serious so Mastery isn't my

00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:06.780
aspect preferred aspect Stream So I

00:18:06.780 --> 00:18:08.700
played twice

00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:10.320
um to get

00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:13.500
to get to Victor's question what was

00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:18.179
before the question was raja's comment

00:18:18.179 --> 00:18:21.740
on Subs back that he made about

00:18:21.740 --> 00:18:24.840
sometimes in the pop-up School

00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:27.720
all of a sudden he realizes oh my God

00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.059
I'm angry I'm afraid

00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.900
and it happens instantaneously

00:18:34.260 --> 00:18:38.160
so like what you were saying Bonnie

00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.860
somebody comes home and they're in a bad

00:18:40.860 --> 00:18:44.100
mood and all are already you're

00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:45.080
emotional

00:18:45.080 --> 00:18:46.620
[Music]

00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:50.340
you may not even notice when it happens

00:18:50.340 --> 00:18:53.039
so yeah we see the markers and that

00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.640
gives us an opportunity to

00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.260
step back

00:18:58.260 --> 00:19:01.400
but we're already

00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:04.340
looping

00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.440
so you can stop you know you can just

00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.500
just run an experiment and stop you see

00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:15.299
you hear them

00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:17.160
you hear them coming and you're like oh

00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.700
that's this like

00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:23.280
it's not helpful it's actually the work

00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:25.200
schizophrenics have to do

00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.480
they have so many voices that seem

00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.660
really real and if you look at there's a

00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:33.780
this video stream called

00:19:33.780 --> 00:19:36.480
special kids Special books for special

00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.480
kids and he talks to schizophrenics and

00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:40.799
they're like

00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.900
they have to manage like all this stuff

00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:45.559
they know is not real

00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.360
and then I I remember this one episode

00:19:48.360 --> 00:19:50.640
where the guy's like

00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.320
um so what is that like where are they

00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:54.179
he and the schizophrenic had to say

00:19:54.179 --> 00:19:56.580
please don't ask questions about them it

00:19:56.580 --> 00:19:59.179
makes them real

00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:02.340
so it's actually

00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:05.280
uh it's horrifying that they have to

00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:09.299
manage that intense simulation

00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:12.480
uh but that's actually the work it's the

00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.240
same work it's like the story's unreal

00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.340
like

00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:18.960
get over it

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.360
uh if you're not schizophrenic they will

00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:23.280
stop if you're schizophrenic they don't

00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:26.600
they not only don't stop they take on

00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:29.220
hallucinatory qualities as if they're

00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:30.539
real people

00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:32.580
and so

00:20:32.580 --> 00:20:34.580
um

00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.320
you could run an experiment where you

00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:45.500
just

00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:48.000
tell them to go away like okay well

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.200
that's not helpful

00:20:59.820 --> 00:21:02.400
I mean I've done it when people at work

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.820
my boss screaming at me and I'm just

00:21:05.820 --> 00:21:07.679
like

00:21:07.679 --> 00:21:10.140
there's a million things that want to

00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:12.660
come in when that's happening and then

00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:13.980
all of a sudden I'm just using my

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:15.660
perception I'm like look at this guy

00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.780
he's like out of control he's screaming

00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:21.419
for all of a sudden you realize there's

00:21:21.419 --> 00:21:24.720
no context the guy is just

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.600
rabid he's just out of control has

00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:31.200
nothing has nothing to do with me he's

00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.780
completely out of control and all of a

00:21:33.780 --> 00:21:35.159
sudden instead of like being in this

00:21:35.159 --> 00:21:36.720
relationship and you're hooked and

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.820
you're swimming you're just like looking

00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:42.179
at a person that has no power

00:21:42.179 --> 00:21:44.640
because they're completely out of

00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.760
control

00:21:48.840 --> 00:21:51.600
then you have power you're like oh this

00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:53.940
is a story this is interesting and you

00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:56.280
say things like

00:21:56.280 --> 00:21:59.240
which is true what I said to him I'm not

00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.900
ruining my life to fix yours

00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:05.640
you just walk out of the room because

00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:09.000
it's not my stuff it's like the guy is

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.840
completely

00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:19.039
out of control

00:22:20.159 --> 00:22:23.580
you can really there's a lot of freedom

00:22:23.580 --> 00:22:29.480
and Liberation in getting the story

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.860
so useful

00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.480
it's not even meaningful that's the

00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.860
other thing well then what does it mean

00:22:37.860 --> 00:22:41.159
well that's not where meaning comes from

00:22:41.159 --> 00:22:45.059
so it's not a trivial

00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:48.860
it's not a trivial question

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:05.520
you know one of the reasons why the

00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:06.960
horses are good to work with because

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.059
people come in in all kinds of stuff

00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.480
happens I get bit I get pushed around I

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.340
get this I get that and people are like

00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:16.380
why don't they like me or why don't this

00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.059
and it's like

00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:20.159
they can't possibly

00:23:20.159 --> 00:23:24.240
be operating under a story that's just

00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.900
your story

00:23:28.919 --> 00:23:32.159
they're responding to gestures and

00:23:32.159 --> 00:23:35.580
body language and

00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:38.100
energy that's it

00:23:38.100 --> 00:23:40.820
and so

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.640
it's like

00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.640
foreign

00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:57.539
I think the other thing that happens is

00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.059
there's some kind of assumption that

00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:02.820
people think life will be Bland if you

00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:04.940
didn't have a story that

00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:07.440
dramatize everything

00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.140
that there weren't victims and heroes

00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:12.299
and this and that it's just the opposite

00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:15.179
life becomes much more beautiful without

00:24:15.179 --> 00:24:19.640
the stories the stories are boring

00:24:23.820 --> 00:24:27.440
to kind of pathetic actually

00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:32.220
foreign

00:24:43.520 --> 00:24:45.720
[Music]

00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:47.520
they're not all boring but you know the

00:24:47.520 --> 00:24:49.740
ones that are black dramas not those

00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:51.680
those are boring

00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.509
[Music]

00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.539
Bonnie I wonder if I can

00:25:02.539 --> 00:25:08.059
share a very short experience in in my

00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:11.460
what is it

00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.340
pulling on threads to come to a greater

00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:16.200
understanding of what is affecting what

00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:17.940
is this position and what is the

00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.700
difference in what what order

00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:22.799
um I just would like to share a very

00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.480
short thing that happened and then have

00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.240
you kind of name what you've seen there

00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.159
so

00:25:29.159 --> 00:25:31.440
I woke up I checked an email I got some

00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.720
unexpected news that threw me off my

00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.880
game plan and where I was going and I

00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.299
had a lot of tumultuous energy I went

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:41.039
out to do my morning ritual in my yard

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.320
which is to commune with my trees but

00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:45.720
I'm I'm standing in front of a tree and

00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.360
I am not there like and but I'm I can

00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:52.380
see it I I clear right I can't seem to

00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:53.400
get

00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.880
present I want to be later what am I

00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.620
doing what am I saying how am I fixing

00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:01.740
this and but I but I stayed out for a

00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:03.840
while and did you know I do some body

00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:05.220
shaking and things and started to come

00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:06.720
more into my body and then there's a

00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.960
tree that I I stand on the root of that

00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:13.140
is a little narrower than my feet so I

00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:15.539
have to be making these adjustments and

00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.100
I'm standing on the tree and I'm

00:26:17.100 --> 00:26:21.360
noticing that I am losing balance and my

00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:24.059
my mind is trying to figure out what to

00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.960
do to balance and I all of a sudden just

00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:32.820
saw my personality cannot regulate

00:26:32.820 --> 00:26:36.240
the imbalance that my personality can't

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.240
do it and I fell into my like I fell

00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:43.200
into my body and it was just my body was

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.440
just balancing it was so cool like it

00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.539
was like I could feel it connected with

00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:50.700
everything around it and knowing exactly

00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:53.580
what was needed to balance but the thing

00:26:53.580 --> 00:26:57.059
that was most clear is I I can't do it

00:26:57.059 --> 00:26:59.100
with my personality so that's what I'll

00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:01.500
say and then if you could just reflect

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:04.740
on that it would be helpful yeah

00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.320
so

00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:09.900
you know sometimes I tell people like

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:13.140
you'll get a thing you'll get a shock

00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:16.799
you'll have an experience and it just is

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.020
um you're off balance sometimes for

00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:21.179
months really

00:27:21.179 --> 00:27:22.020
um

00:27:22.020 --> 00:27:24.360
and sometimes it's you just have to say

00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:26.760
it takes the time it takes like you're

00:27:26.760 --> 00:27:29.580
at the tree you're not gonna like boom

00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:30.900
and you're

00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:33.240
but

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.480
it doesn't help to

00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.360
like what you did was perfect like you

00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:42.659
kept on saying okay whatever it is that

00:27:42.659 --> 00:27:45.779
triggered this

00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:47.700
is going to take the time it takes the

00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:50.279
body knows how to get back to Center and

00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.559
then when the body gets back to Center I

00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.679
can try to look at it again

00:27:55.679 --> 00:27:59.580
uh there's an order to things like uh

00:27:59.580 --> 00:28:01.440
when you're teaching horses it's very

00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:04.380
similar they're the same bodies

00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:05.039
um

00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:07.020
you'll be teaching them something

00:28:07.020 --> 00:28:09.419
there's a certain amount of pressure for

00:28:09.419 --> 00:28:12.440
them to perform uh

00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.740
they'll be they'll be uh trying and then

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.140
it if you push them too much it's too

00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:20.159
much

00:28:20.159 --> 00:28:23.100
and then they just want out because

00:28:23.100 --> 00:28:24.659
they're flight animals and they just

00:28:24.659 --> 00:28:25.919
want out

00:28:25.919 --> 00:28:28.200
and if you keep on

00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.179
trying to teach

00:28:30.179 --> 00:28:33.600
the new skill from that place it just

00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:36.419
gets worse you have to go back down to

00:28:36.419 --> 00:28:39.539
oh let's just calm down

00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:43.140
and re-establish Trust

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:44.880
and it's the same thing what you said

00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.640
it's like like until you get your body

00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.039
to do what it needs to do

00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.140
then maybe you can go look at the email

00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:55.679
again and it takes the time it takes and

00:28:55.679 --> 00:28:57.960
for some reason sometimes it takes a

00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.360
long time you know

00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:02.340
um sometimes I can't even open emails

00:29:02.340 --> 00:29:05.240
like I just don't

00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:08.520
my nervous system is shot and I just

00:29:08.520 --> 00:29:12.240
can't open emails you know and so I just

00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.059
I just work on like go out

00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:18.120
like you said like

00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:21.299
put that task aside and go back to the

00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:23.039
more fundamental

00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.940
can I get so I'm present insane the

00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:29.580
other thing we'll have to wait

00:29:29.580 --> 00:29:31.500
and

00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:33.899
um that's getting back down to like a

00:29:33.899 --> 00:29:35.940
dispositional state

00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:38.039
that has more options when you open the

00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.059
email

00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:41.220
and maybe you should get angry or you

00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:46.039
should get this or that but when

00:29:49.260 --> 00:29:51.840
yeah when you're already disrupted yeah

00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:55.559
but in there is the aspect and what in

00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.120
there is the disposition

00:29:57.120 --> 00:29:59.580
okay so

00:29:59.580 --> 00:30:02.760
what I heard from you was it was all

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:04.980
just disposition dysregulated because

00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:07.559
you didn't already go to fear or anger

00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:09.299
or this or that

00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:12.120
it was just

00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:14.760
a dispositional state that wasn't

00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:18.380
present but let's say

00:30:18.899 --> 00:30:20.220
um

00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:22.500
I and I suppose that you know that's

00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:25.500
better than some people whenever the

00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.720
dispositional state gets aroused they go

00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.059
right into fear or they go right into

00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:33.799
anger or they go right into something

00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.260
versus knowing that

00:30:37.260 --> 00:30:39.539
the way you described it was more like

00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:42.299
your dispositional state was just

00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:45.299
erratic

00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:47.840
um

00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:50.940
and you can look around and see that

00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:52.860
there's some fear or this or that but

00:30:52.860 --> 00:30:54.840
but

00:30:54.840 --> 00:30:58.620
um yeah it didn't sound to me like it

00:30:58.620 --> 00:31:02.340
already got gone into an affect

00:31:02.340 --> 00:31:04.260
certainly not an emotion because you

00:31:04.260 --> 00:31:07.380
were just working with your body

00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.940
so if that kind of like dysregulation

00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:13.980
had turned into anger you're being an

00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:14.880
affect

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.919
and then all of a sudden it'd be like

00:31:16.919 --> 00:31:19.740
why is the world like this because the

00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:22.320
freaking government you know or whatever

00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:25.500
that'd be a full-blown emotion all

00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:28.260
filled with story

00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:31.919
um but what I heard from you is what is

00:31:31.919 --> 00:31:36.120
useful is to try to manage it at the

00:31:36.120 --> 00:31:39.059
dispositional level

00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:41.179
um

00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.140
because without that

00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:51.020
what follows it is already erratic

00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:53.120
yeah

00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:56.100
distinction what you just said thank you

00:31:56.100 --> 00:31:58.500
I mean sometimes there are things in

00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:01.080
your life that go right into anger and

00:32:01.080 --> 00:32:05.700
it's very it's very relevant like like

00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:08.820
or fear you know when you jump away from

00:32:08.820 --> 00:32:11.340
a car or something like that

00:32:11.340 --> 00:32:13.380
um

00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:14.760
but when you don't have enough

00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:16.919
information to know what action to take

00:32:16.919 --> 00:32:19.500
then then you're working at the

00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.899
dispositional state and trying to get

00:32:21.899 --> 00:32:23.700
yourself

00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.500
present so

00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:28.440
you could open the email and then angry

00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.600
and it might have been correct to be

00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:32.460
angry and then you write a letter to

00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:35.520
your Congressman or something

00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:37.050
um does that make sense

00:32:37.050 --> 00:32:39.960
[Music]

00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.000
yeah but I'm feeling like in there is

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.340
the gap like in there

00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:47.220
in there is the opportunity for the the

00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:50.640
Gap exactly the more you can open it up

00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.279
the more choice you have

00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.940
because you can see how it works

00:32:55.940 --> 00:32:58.679
you get the feeling that it's slowed

00:32:58.679 --> 00:33:01.140
down even if it takes a long time at

00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:03.419
least you're working only at the lower

00:33:03.419 --> 00:33:05.299
level

00:33:05.299 --> 00:33:08.039
sometimes it takes a long time I've been

00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:11.220
triggered triggered as a weird world but

00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:15.059
but uncomfortable with things that I

00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:17.039
didn't really understand

00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.860
that kind of threw me off and it just is

00:33:19.860 --> 00:33:22.620
takes a long time and I know enough not

00:33:22.620 --> 00:33:25.919
to take on too much when I'm like that

00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:30.659
or to jump to conclusions

00:33:30.659 --> 00:33:33.179
um you you'll hear

00:33:33.179 --> 00:33:35.220
the mind will help you jump to

00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:39.000
conclusions because it's hard to be like

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:42.140
kind of off

00:33:43.260 --> 00:33:46.559
but it's never really helpful to jump to

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.539
conclusions if you're just off

00:33:52.080 --> 00:33:53.640
and then you'll get an insight and

00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:55.200
you're like oh that's what it was all

00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:58.140
along sometimes it's a

00:33:58.140 --> 00:34:01.140
it's just purely physical sometimes you

00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:05.779
know like and sometimes it's not but

00:34:15.899 --> 00:34:18.300
and the ritual is important that's it

00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:21.060
that's always been an important way that

00:34:21.060 --> 00:34:23.300
people

00:34:23.520 --> 00:34:25.800
rebalance themselves

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.399
through ritual versus through creating a

00:34:29.399 --> 00:34:31.080
story and then getting trapped in the

00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:33.119
story calling up someone and blaming

00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:34.320
them

00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.760
if they're good friends they know that

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:43.879
you kind of disregulated but yeah

00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.119
and just knowing that we live in complex

00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:50.520
worlds so there's a lot of

00:34:50.520 --> 00:34:53.040
stimulus coming in

00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:54.480
and we're not going to have the perfect

00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:58.460
body all the time we're not going to be

00:34:59.580 --> 00:35:03.560
cool cucumbers the whole time

00:35:11.640 --> 00:35:13.320
I

00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.599
there's like uh

00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.900
there's like a deep sigh in my system

00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:22.160
right now it's like

00:35:23.700 --> 00:35:26.280
and I notice in it

00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:29.040
there's so much

00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:32.700
there's so much humility in it

00:35:32.700 --> 00:35:35.160
like a humility of

00:35:35.160 --> 00:35:39.780
feeling very humbled by

00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:46.200
yeah just feeling and and with that

00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:48.300
humility there's a lot of tenderness and

00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:49.680
care too

00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:53.339
with the ways in which I can

00:35:53.339 --> 00:35:57.780
show up and just want my affix I want my

00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:00.060
affix dreams to always be in the

00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:02.040
awakened state I'm like I just

00:36:02.040 --> 00:36:04.260
constantly be liberated and experienced

00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:09.000
blue way and wonder and it's like no

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.220
sometimes

00:36:11.220 --> 00:36:14.099
um sometimes I'm just like tired or

00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:16.700
sometimes I'm just

00:36:16.700 --> 00:36:19.020
ah yeah

00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:22.020
it's and it feels like it's okay it's

00:36:22.020 --> 00:36:24.300
it's just like don't you just don't do

00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:27.599
that much then like take it easy

00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.359
and I I think there's something very

00:36:30.359 --> 00:36:32.339
I think that's a deep side too there's

00:36:32.339 --> 00:36:33.300
like

00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:35.400
something that feels very wise in that

00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.440
just like this

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.859
deep caring awareness of where you are

00:36:40.859 --> 00:36:43.140
presently

00:36:43.140 --> 00:36:46.260
and what is the most skillful way to

00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:48.660
meet where you presently are

00:36:48.660 --> 00:36:52.920
and not just always seeking to become

00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.599
it's like oh I wish it was just

00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:56.640
different

00:36:56.640 --> 00:36:58.619
which often activates the contraction

00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:01.680
again and it spirals into like anxiety

00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:03.660
and shame

00:37:03.660 --> 00:37:05.460
yeah

00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:07.859
so I think I just

00:37:07.859 --> 00:37:09.720
there's something that feels very

00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:13.140
very human like a very like kind of a

00:37:13.140 --> 00:37:17.000
almost like holding

00:37:17.160 --> 00:37:19.920
yeah holding the tenderness of the

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.300
animal body

00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:24.000
and recognizing like recognizing its

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.500
capacities as well in that kind of way

00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:32.940
one can attune to and all that but

00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:37.160
the humility feels very present here

00:37:39.359 --> 00:37:42.140
foreign

00:38:09.720 --> 00:38:12.720
foreign

00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:22.140
if you read the gap chart again it

00:38:22.140 --> 00:38:25.500
doesn't say to be in this state it's

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:27.540
like oh can I be surprised as The

00:38:27.540 --> 00:38:29.880
rhythms change and

00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:33.720
can I be curious when they move and

00:38:33.720 --> 00:38:35.040
um

00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:37.160
um

00:38:38.300 --> 00:38:43.339
you know part of the problem is

00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:48.900
that

00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:54.140
you know it's very hard to distinguish

00:38:55.680 --> 00:39:00.079
it's very very hard to determine whether

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.740
the affects

00:39:04.859 --> 00:39:07.380
are really unpleasant or they're

00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:08.820
unpleasant

00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:12.420
in the context of our modern lives

00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:15.740
right so

00:39:18.660 --> 00:39:22.560
I'll give you a a kind of silly example

00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:25.380
like you can go through phases where you

00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:26.880
sleep a lot

00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.140
like

00:39:28.140 --> 00:39:30.360
11 12 hours a day

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.640
[Music]

00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:34.500
and

00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:36.660
you know I watch my animals they go out

00:39:36.660 --> 00:39:38.099
and they play and they play really hard

00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:40.920
like for five hours it's like the dogs

00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.040
they just sleep all day

00:39:44.040 --> 00:39:45.900
and they're not unhappy and they're not

00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:48.420
bored and they're not anything and I

00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:49.200
think

00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:51.720
so so I get I've been doing this

00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:53.460
experiment especially in the winter I'm

00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:55.440
like well if I want to sleep for 12

00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.420
hours I'm gonna sleep for 12 hours and

00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:58.980
then there's sometimes I can't even

00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:00.900
sleep like I'm up

00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.760
freaking out over an article or

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:03.900
something

00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:06.660
and

00:40:06.660 --> 00:40:10.020
the interesting thing is about that

00:40:10.020 --> 00:40:12.060
there is

00:40:12.060 --> 00:40:14.760
judgment about either of those things

00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.859
right like while you're obsessing and

00:40:16.859 --> 00:40:18.839
why are you sleeping all the time and in

00:40:18.839 --> 00:40:20.579
general I'm in the middle most of my

00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:24.300
life but I think that there's some total

00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:27.119
of human condition is all of those

00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.320
things

00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:33.740
but there's negative story around

00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:36.780
the extremes right like what's wrong

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:37.740
with you

00:40:37.740 --> 00:40:39.599
and

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:41.720
um

00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:47.400
so that's one thing to notice that

00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:49.220
we talk about

00:40:49.220 --> 00:40:52.740
these states of this that are they're

00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:55.200
uncomfortable

00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:57.180
um but it's interesting to really

00:40:57.180 --> 00:41:01.020
investigate why are they uncomfortable

00:41:01.020 --> 00:41:04.500
uh and is there actually some judgment

00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:06.960
or story in there

00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:08.880
the reason why I bring it up is I know

00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.320
some of you have heard me tell this

00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.720
story about

00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:16.260
um how much actual physical pain is is

00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:19.160
actually thought

00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:22.260
um and

00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:24.420
I mean it blew my mind and the first

00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:26.579
time I started to really investigate

00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:30.060
this was I had a very bad horse accident

00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:33.780
where the lower half of my left heel was

00:41:33.780 --> 00:41:35.820
pulled away from my foot it was like my

00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:38.040
foot was like a sandals

00:41:38.040 --> 00:41:40.800
and I was rushed to the hospital and I

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.780
was laying on my belly

00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:44.460
and they were cleaning it out and

00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:46.619
cleaning out all the detritus and stuff

00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:48.960
and

00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:50.040
um

00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:54.300
and I would scream in pain and the nurse

00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:56.700
would grab my hand and say we can give

00:41:56.700 --> 00:41:58.800
you you know I was all I didn't have

00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.140
general anesthesia but they had like

00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:04.380
put uh novocaine and all the way up and

00:42:04.380 --> 00:42:06.920
down my leg and in my joints and stuff

00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.480
and the nurse said well we can give you

00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:10.560
more

00:42:10.560 --> 00:42:12.380
uh

00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:15.720
anesthesia but can you go and check to

00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:17.700
see if it really hurts and when I went

00:42:17.700 --> 00:42:19.380
and checked I couldn't feel anything I

00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:21.180
couldn't even feel my leg I couldn't

00:42:21.180 --> 00:42:22.859
even find my leg

00:42:22.859 --> 00:42:25.320
I'm like no no it's okay it's completely

00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:26.700
numb

00:42:26.700 --> 00:42:28.980
and then I would be trying to relax and

00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:31.500
she was holding my hand and then I would

00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:33.839
start to scream in pain again and she

00:42:33.839 --> 00:42:36.240
would say again

00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:38.520
we give we're willing to give you more

00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:40.920
you know novocaine in there but can you

00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.839
go and check

00:42:42.839 --> 00:42:44.760
and I go and check I couldn't even feel

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.180
my leg and I'm like where is the pain

00:42:48.180 --> 00:42:50.880
coming from

00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.099
and the pain was coming from a thought

00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:55.500
and I started to realize that just

00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:57.300
before the pain came

00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:01.020
I would slightly have this image

00:43:01.020 --> 00:43:05.220
of him pulling my leg open and cleaning

00:43:05.220 --> 00:43:07.980
it it was like a little movie and I

00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:12.200
would think what if the painkillers stop

00:43:12.200 --> 00:43:14.280
and I would

00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:16.500
have pain

00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:20.839
so this was very interesting to me

00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:25.140
so years later I got kicked

00:43:25.140 --> 00:43:28.020
here by a horse and it blew out my arm

00:43:28.020 --> 00:43:30.300
and I had like a hundred

00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.940
internal stitches and 80 external

00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:35.040
stitches or something

00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:37.319
and when I first got kicked

00:43:37.319 --> 00:43:39.720
okay my body went into shock it was in

00:43:39.720 --> 00:43:42.060
the winter I had a ski suit on and I got

00:43:42.060 --> 00:43:44.760
very very hot and I was gonna think

00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.060
so I laid down in the snow

00:43:47.060 --> 00:43:53.460
and I calmed myself down from the shock

00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:54.960
and then

00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.640
I was like

00:43:56.640 --> 00:43:59.520
okay I felt it to my arm and I couldn't

00:43:59.520 --> 00:44:01.440
really didn't really feel like anything

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.300
there's not a lot of pain receptors

00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:04.740
there

00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:07.680
and then I went up to the house

00:44:07.680 --> 00:44:11.099
and I laid down and I wanted my husband

00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:12.599
to look at it but he didn't want to look

00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.180
at it and then I could I started to

00:44:15.180 --> 00:44:18.060
imagine that the bone was broken and the

00:44:18.060 --> 00:44:20.099
bone was stuck through my arm and then

00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.260
it started to hurt

00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:25.440
and I then I started to notice that the

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.500
experience of pain always came after a

00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:30.839
thought which was an image an image and

00:44:30.839 --> 00:44:33.060
an imagination

00:44:33.060 --> 00:44:35.640
and you can you can practice this you

00:44:35.640 --> 00:44:38.400
could go and get your hands really cold

00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:40.680
like in the winter and then go and put

00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:43.220
put it in warm water

00:44:43.220 --> 00:44:45.960
and you

00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.400
you'll feel something extreme

00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.880
and as soon as the thought go comes up

00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:55.440
my hands are burning which you know is

00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:58.020
not true but the thought will come up my

00:44:58.020 --> 00:44:59.819
hands are burning and you'll want to go

00:44:59.819 --> 00:45:01.560
like this because you think your hands

00:45:01.560 --> 00:45:04.400
are burning there's a very very very

00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:06.900
interesting relationship between thought

00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:09.420
and physical pain

00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:12.000
and so by the time I went to the

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.260
hospital I had my arms stitched up I had

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:18.000
X-rays my arms stitched up I didn't have

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.859
any novocaine I didn't have anything

00:45:19.859 --> 00:45:22.800
because I just didn't let the story come

00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.160
in now this is really interesting how

00:45:26.160 --> 00:45:29.280
much power

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.280
the freaking imaginary image and story

00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:34.859
has over what we would call physical

00:45:34.859 --> 00:45:37.319
pain and I realized why children cry

00:45:37.319 --> 00:45:42.119
when their hair first gets cut because

00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.880
okay imagine it's gonna hurt and so it

00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:46.260
really hurts

00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:51.920
this is not ideological metaphorical

00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:56.099
it's actually true the amount of pain

00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:59.520
physical pain not just emotional pain

00:45:59.520 --> 00:46:02.339
but especially emotional pain since it's

00:46:02.339 --> 00:46:04.740
not you know I mean there is some

00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:05.940
relationship

00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:10.880
is so constructed by our imagination

00:46:23.940 --> 00:46:25.260
it's

00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:27.560
nice

00:46:35.220 --> 00:46:38.060
yeah Phoebe

00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:40.560
so

00:46:40.560 --> 00:46:43.140
I have a question

00:46:43.140 --> 00:46:46.140
uh so there are uh three different

00:46:46.140 --> 00:46:48.000
affects streams

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.359
and I pretty much think I live in the

00:46:51.359 --> 00:46:54.000
play anger

00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.660
uh Mastery one and uh

00:46:57.660 --> 00:47:00.240
and actually I was wondering if the rage

00:47:00.240 --> 00:47:02.339
was a I was wondering whether depression

00:47:02.339 --> 00:47:04.500
should be there instead of Rage because

00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:07.440
anger uh turned inward as depression and

00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:09.359
anyways that that's a that's a different

00:47:09.359 --> 00:47:14.400
thought but so I was in a group in um

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.460
I got angry at something that happened

00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:21.060
and uh so I was thinking about okay so

00:47:21.060 --> 00:47:23.099
what's the affect

00:47:23.099 --> 00:47:25.740
what's the you know and I was or what's

00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:28.380
the what's the game you're playing yeah

00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:30.359
what's the what's the game or what's the

00:47:30.359 --> 00:47:31.859
play

00:47:31.859 --> 00:47:33.599
I didn't think about what's the game I'm

00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.180
playing but but how can I get get from

00:47:36.180 --> 00:47:39.720
being irritated and angry to playing

00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:41.099
and um

00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:43.680
okay so slow down because when you're

00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:45.540
angry you're angry that a boundaries

00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:47.579
crossed or

00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:50.160
something a Rule's been broken or

00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:51.780
something mostly a boundaries been

00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:54.300
crossed so that's the game you've set up

00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:57.540
the game has boundaries and rules and

00:47:57.540 --> 00:47:59.040
someone crossed them

00:47:59.040 --> 00:48:03.240
that pissed you off it did right so

00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:04.980
that's what you asked what's the game I

00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:07.200
was playing that someone boundary got

00:48:07.200 --> 00:48:09.680
crossed

00:48:13.099 --> 00:48:16.500
so so then what's the solution to that I

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:18.599
mean it's actually an agreed upon game

00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:21.119
that we were both playing but

00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.599
but she was uh changing the pool in the

00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:28.140
middle exactly because you set up

00:48:28.140 --> 00:48:30.780
boundaries in the games for yourself

00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:33.960
that you were that you prisoned you put

00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:38.060
yourself in a prison of your own game

00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:42.000
well I didn't want to play the way she

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.020
was playing

00:48:43.020 --> 00:48:45.500
yeah

00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:49.800
okay so so I could look at playing well

00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:51.720
you could see the game it's in a game

00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:54.839
the game has rules and boundaries and

00:48:54.839 --> 00:48:56.940
someone crossed it

00:48:56.940 --> 00:49:00.180
that's a good place to start

00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:03.480
okay so the other thing I want to say is

00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:04.560
that

00:49:04.560 --> 00:49:06.540
so I was thinking of saying something to

00:49:06.540 --> 00:49:07.380
her

00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:10.140
and trying to say it as non-offensively

00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:13.740
as I could or as lovingly as I could or

00:49:13.740 --> 00:49:15.900
but I realized that what I really wanted

00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:18.420
to do was smack her

00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:21.119
so it came through my

00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.339
it came through how I spoke even though

00:49:23.339 --> 00:49:25.319
I was trying to be nice

00:49:25.319 --> 00:49:28.920
practicing saying something

00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:31.099
um

00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:33.180
and the thing is what she was doing was

00:49:33.180 --> 00:49:36.839
I don't have to learn the story so

00:49:36.839 --> 00:49:39.420
and then I was talking to someone who

00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:43.020
said uh well

00:49:43.020 --> 00:49:45.240
what I do in those situations is I just

00:49:45.240 --> 00:49:47.400
look inside of me and see what the

00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:50.640
feeling is and and and and be with my

00:49:50.640 --> 00:49:52.920
own experience but I happen to believe

00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:55.380
that this person's uh

00:49:55.380 --> 00:49:59.220
uh affect stream is connection and care

00:49:59.220 --> 00:50:02.420
and so I'm thinking so if mine is

00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:05.460
Mastery play anger and rage or whatever

00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:06.780
there

00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.240
does that mean that I don't have to get

00:50:09.240 --> 00:50:11.960
all soft in care

00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.420
does that mean I have like a ticket to I

00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:17.819
don't have to do the care thing

00:50:17.819 --> 00:50:22.200
okay because I'm a player you can't care

00:50:22.200 --> 00:50:24.300
when you don't care

00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:27.500
it's not possible

00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:29.819
it's not possible you can't care when

00:50:29.819 --> 00:50:32.359
you don't care

00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:36.900
well so since I'm a player I just

00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:38.400
basically want to hit the ball where she

00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.540
can't get it

00:50:39.540 --> 00:50:43.260
do it how she responds is her problem

00:50:43.260 --> 00:50:46.079
not yours

00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:47.819
I mean I don't really mean that but what

00:50:47.819 --> 00:50:52.520
if you really showed her who you are

00:50:52.680 --> 00:50:54.960
maybe she go and cry at a corner never

00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.240
talk to you again that's her problem

00:50:57.240 --> 00:51:00.540
maybe it's your problem I don't know

00:51:00.540 --> 00:51:03.420
but you can't okay if you don't care you

00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:05.839
can't care

00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:08.640
if you're mad at someone and then like

00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:10.559
you think oh well I should do this and

00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:11.819
this and that I'm mad at her if I'm

00:51:11.819 --> 00:51:14.099
gonna do this anyways it's not caring

00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:15.900
for someone it's just being mad at

00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:17.579
someone of

00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:19.150
using another strategy

00:51:19.150 --> 00:51:20.220
[Music]

00:51:20.220 --> 00:51:24.079
can't care for someone if you don't care

00:51:24.180 --> 00:51:26.220
it's not possible

00:51:26.220 --> 00:51:29.400
so my so that the question really behind

00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:32.700
all this is if you have an affect string

00:51:32.700 --> 00:51:34.700
that is your default

00:51:34.700 --> 00:51:38.280
do we also have the other we must have

00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:42.300
the other ones running in in uh

00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:44.160
lesser ways or something did you ever

00:51:44.160 --> 00:51:47.119
have a grumpy cat

00:51:48.020 --> 00:51:50.880
I have never had a cat I don't like cat

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.400
I don't care about cat okay

00:52:00.020 --> 00:52:03.000
no I think it's good that you find that

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:07.079
you have you you're in a place a lot

00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.660
and I think you just need to try to move

00:52:09.660 --> 00:52:14.099
the anger to to not care but play

00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:16.619
like play out like you're driving me

00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:17.880
[ __ ]

00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.780
look at my library

00:52:22.700 --> 00:52:25.020
that's what I wanted to do but I need

00:52:25.020 --> 00:52:27.540
felt like I needed to be nice that's a

00:52:27.540 --> 00:52:28.920
problem

00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.510
you can't be nice if you don't care

00:52:31.510 --> 00:52:34.319
[Music]

00:52:34.319 --> 00:52:37.680
so my question is just go with who you

00:52:37.680 --> 00:52:40.079
are Phoebe Antonia

00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:43.500
but my question is if if the Mastery

00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:46.559
play thing is my normal affect stream or

00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.260
default do I have those other ones as

00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.240
well or are we just like one or the

00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:53.520
other no you're not one or the other but

00:52:53.520 --> 00:52:56.760
if you're in in the play anger thing and

00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:58.079
you don't care

00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:00.980
you don't care

00:53:01.319 --> 00:53:03.599
if I get mad at someone right in front

00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.400
of their face and they never talk to me

00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:07.559
again what do you get to lose you don't

00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:08.640
care

00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:10.920
oh

00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:14.700
right so this is a if you were new yeah

00:53:14.700 --> 00:53:18.140
go with it see what happens

00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:21.900
short of like walking into the White

00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:23.460
House and putting a gun to the

00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:25.440
president's head that kind of anger is

00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:29.160
probably needs to be like modified

00:53:29.160 --> 00:53:33.059
uh yeah

00:53:33.059 --> 00:53:35.220
because it just gets too complicated

00:53:35.220 --> 00:53:37.579
because they know you're just being

00:53:37.579 --> 00:53:40.140
sweet when you're not

00:53:40.140 --> 00:53:42.059
and

00:53:42.059 --> 00:53:44.400
there's not more risk in just being Who

00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.819
You Are

00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:49.559
well I think what I would say is that

00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:54.000
you can you can I could respond

00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:56.579
and but if I didn't get into blame and

00:53:56.579 --> 00:53:58.800
if I didn't create a story around what

00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.440
she's doing but just stayed in the

00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.960
actual you know this these aren't the

00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:06.420
rules this isn't what we agreed to and

00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:09.180
I'm not right but exactly

00:54:09.180 --> 00:54:11.579
but make it more playful these aren't

00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:13.440
the rules we didn't go out why you're

00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:16.559
driving me crazy versus contracted and

00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:19.140
oh you ran yeah

00:54:19.140 --> 00:54:22.440
you can let all that anger come out and

00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:24.300
it's very playful and it's a

00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:26.420
performative right in front of her

00:54:26.420 --> 00:54:28.800
instead of like oh we didn't agree this

00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:30.359
and now you're not going to lie on you

00:54:30.359 --> 00:54:34.220
all contracted you see the difference

00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.760
you could freaking

00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:41.460
get some butane and light your hair on

00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:43.440
fire

00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:45.480
see what happens

00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:48.180
just move it to play the anger energy

00:54:48.180 --> 00:54:50.520
will be in that play energy and you can

00:54:50.520 --> 00:54:52.260
still get it all out there but you won't

00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:54.119
hurt her feelings because she'd be like

00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:57.960
oh this person's like she's like insane

00:54:57.960 --> 00:54:59.579
and then that gives you more power

00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:02.280
because now she thinks you're insane

00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:05.119
it's her problem

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.819
s

00:55:07.819 --> 00:55:11.339
just pointing to a shift that was

00:55:11.339 --> 00:55:15.240
possible for Phoebe in the moment right

00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:16.440
and so

00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:17.400
um

00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.700
I was just noticing that like I I have

00:55:20.700 --> 00:55:22.619
this conception of like affects and

00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:25.319
emotions as like affordances right that

00:55:25.319 --> 00:55:27.240
they're that they can be for something

00:55:27.240 --> 00:55:30.599
right as previously introduced to some

00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:33.119
distinctions that suggested that I think

00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:34.740
their words were feelings versus

00:55:34.740 --> 00:55:38.339
emotions feelings I think mapped

00:55:38.339 --> 00:55:40.980
roughly to like this concept of affects

00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:45.480
right so I think the the affect of anger

00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:47.579
that came up for suggesting let it out

00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:50.339
because otherwise it's going to like sit

00:55:50.339 --> 00:55:53.099
there and and remove like Phoebe from

00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:55.020
from the plate that she's engaging with

00:55:55.020 --> 00:55:57.740
and uh if you don't mind Adam

00:55:57.740 --> 00:56:01.020
reference like what you had mentioned

00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:03.960
like in our our session about

00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:05.339
um like

00:56:05.339 --> 00:56:08.760
not feeling seen like needing to like uh

00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:11.099
and expressing something in anger and

00:56:11.099 --> 00:56:14.400
like that that uh that like allowed like

00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:16.730
a shift for you right so

00:56:16.730 --> 00:56:17.280
[Music]

00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:18.020
um

00:56:18.020 --> 00:56:20.760
so yeah there's there's I guess a couple

00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.640
of things one like you know our um

00:56:23.640 --> 00:56:26.099
feelings and emotions for something

00:56:26.099 --> 00:56:28.319
I've heard the concept the the

00:56:28.319 --> 00:56:30.119
distinction that I've been offered was

00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:33.300
uh feelings are for like taking some

00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:35.640
kind of an action like making an

00:56:35.640 --> 00:56:38.220
expression a declaration or like take

00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.440
doing something right

00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:43.380
um and I've heard it suggested that the

00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:46.740
the emotions are for or can be for

00:56:46.740 --> 00:56:49.200
healing like finding something that's uh

00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:52.440
that's there that uh that you can go

00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:53.880
into and and

00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.680
um and they come from like maybe a

00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:59.819
previous trauma or or shame or whatever

00:56:59.819 --> 00:57:04.099
answers the thoughts that came up for me

00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:07.079
yeah they're there for a reason we just

00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:09.059
want to be more skillfully and and

00:57:09.059 --> 00:57:11.099
you're exactly right

00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:13.140
all of this starts with some kind of

00:57:13.140 --> 00:57:14.579
arousal

00:57:14.579 --> 00:57:17.760
and it it's looking for an action that

00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:20.640
satisfy it so the arousal may be like

00:57:20.640 --> 00:57:23.160
your insulin level starts to rise and

00:57:23.160 --> 00:57:25.020
the action that satisfies it is your

00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:27.780
pancreas starts to

00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:29.940
you know sugar levels start to rise in

00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:32.700
your pancreas Squirts and some insulin

00:57:32.700 --> 00:57:34.319
so that's not something you have to

00:57:34.319 --> 00:57:37.440
worry about but it's all arousal and

00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.680
actions that satisfy it

00:57:40.680 --> 00:57:43.460
Erin

00:57:58.940 --> 00:58:01.920
and did you want to say something I know

00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:04.319
I think you're on the

00:58:04.319 --> 00:58:05.570
foreign

00:58:05.570 --> 00:58:08.639
[Music]

00:58:37.859 --> 00:58:40.380
oh sorry about that I was having a hard

00:58:40.380 --> 00:58:41.640
time

00:58:41.640 --> 00:58:43.799
um I'm muting myself can you hear me

00:58:43.799 --> 00:58:48.559
yeah okay great so

00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:51.240
affects have the name of emotions right

00:58:51.240 --> 00:58:53.220
but they're not emotions so I'm looking

00:58:53.220 --> 00:58:56.400
at what the physiological responses are

00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:00.299
of these affects so for me in the kind

00:59:00.299 --> 00:59:03.359
of Mastery play stream there seems to be

00:59:03.359 --> 00:59:05.940
a kind of focusing feeling

00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:09.299
a narrowing of my uh

00:59:09.299 --> 00:59:11.280
there's different

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:12.839
um physiological things that are

00:59:12.839 --> 00:59:14.160
happening and I'm wondering if there are

00:59:14.160 --> 00:59:16.079
resources around that because I'm doing

00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:18.660
my own investigation into

00:59:18.660 --> 00:59:21.299
kind of what's happening in my body

00:59:21.299 --> 00:59:22.980
but I'm sure there's been a bunch of

00:59:22.980 --> 00:59:24.240
research on

00:59:24.240 --> 00:59:26.640
okay people's dilate here right this is

00:59:26.640 --> 00:59:29.760
what's happening during the lust effect

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:31.559
um and I'm just wondering about some

00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.119
references around that

00:59:39.839 --> 00:59:42.119
yeah so

00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.520
you know there's a lot of brain

00:59:44.520 --> 00:59:48.299
chemistry and brain EEG and EKG and the

00:59:48.299 --> 00:59:51.240
different cocktails

00:59:51.240 --> 00:59:54.900
um and what muscle groups contract and

00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:59.040
what muscle groups uh relax

00:59:59.040 --> 00:59:59.339
[Music]

00:59:59.339 --> 01:00:01.339
um

01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:03.900
the difficulty there is that that

01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:06.059
research is very technical and filled

01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:07.319
with facts

01:00:07.319 --> 01:00:11.700
yeah and not a lot of phenomenology

01:00:11.700 --> 01:00:14.359
uh-huh

01:00:15.660 --> 01:00:19.740
so that's an interesting

01:00:19.740 --> 01:00:21.920
um

01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:25.079
it's all you know vagal tone and all

01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:27.000
that's in there

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:28.140
um

01:00:28.140 --> 01:00:31.099
uh

01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:33.960
yeah I mean the approach I've been

01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.240
taking is just trying to notice

01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:38.280
physiological changes that are happening

01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:39.960
yeah heart rate

01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:44.119
uh a perceived sense of temperature

01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:46.680
yeah

01:00:46.680 --> 01:00:47.760
um

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:49.319
and maybe that's actually more useful

01:00:49.319 --> 01:00:52.140
than looking at the technical research

01:00:52.140 --> 01:00:54.540
yeah so the technical research will tell

01:00:54.540 --> 01:00:57.780
you all these facts about hormones and

01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:00.240
stuff like that but I have to think of

01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:01.260
whether

01:01:01.260 --> 01:01:03.660
or not

01:01:03.660 --> 01:01:05.839
um

01:01:07.020 --> 01:01:09.240
what's the phenomenology of that you

01:01:09.240 --> 01:01:12.380
know like like

01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.920
in terms of the emotions and affects

01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:23.640
so there's quite a lot of good work now

01:01:23.640 --> 01:01:26.400
where people talk about like EKGs and

01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:28.440
eegs and then

01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:30.839
and then the phenomenology of like the

01:01:30.839 --> 01:01:33.059
meditator so when you when you're doing

01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:35.220
meditation and you feel this this is

01:01:35.220 --> 01:01:36.900
because this is what's happening in your

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:40.559
brain uh they can't think of any

01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:41.880
um

01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.579
affects and emotion

01:01:44.579 --> 01:01:47.700
that has that bridge between the science

01:01:47.700 --> 01:01:51.799
and how you would

01:01:52.640 --> 01:01:55.099
how you would experience that

01:01:55.099 --> 01:01:59.099
phenomenologically hmm

01:02:03.240 --> 01:02:07.140
at the level of the different affects so

01:02:07.140 --> 01:02:09.900
uh we know there's a general sense of

01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:11.819
arousal we we can feel that

01:02:11.819 --> 01:02:14.660
phenomologically

01:02:16.319 --> 01:02:21.200
heart rate can go up and down but

01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:25.260
uh

01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:29.640
it's not it's not specific to well like

01:02:29.640 --> 01:02:32.280
when your heart there is like when

01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:34.500
you're panicking it's very clear that

01:02:34.500 --> 01:02:35.460
it's

01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:37.440
kind of a heart

01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.260
chest thing

01:02:39.260 --> 01:02:42.960
versus getting angry

01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:46.700
yeah that's an interesting question

01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:53.339
um you can you can research it yourself

01:02:53.339 --> 01:02:56.940
like it's a great opportunity Phoebe if

01:02:56.940 --> 01:02:58.859
you get angry

01:02:58.859 --> 01:03:01.380
to actually just watch like what is

01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:03.240
going on I remember one time I was so

01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:05.220
angry at work this was years and years

01:03:05.220 --> 01:03:07.260
ago when I worked in New York City

01:03:07.260 --> 01:03:10.020
and literally I saw stars and I

01:03:10.020 --> 01:03:11.819
understood why they

01:03:11.819 --> 01:03:14.339
why they used that expression she was so

01:03:14.339 --> 01:03:17.280
angry she saw Stars literally I saw

01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:19.680
Stars

01:03:19.680 --> 01:03:21.799
um

01:03:26.579 --> 01:03:27.960
yeah

01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:31.220
it's an interesting question

01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:35.220
uh I think it's a great question and

01:03:35.220 --> 01:03:37.920
when you asked it Aaron I looked at the

01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.040
model the expanded mode

01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:43.079
and I had a

01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:44.180
a a

01:03:44.180 --> 01:03:48.359
subtle difference between care play and

01:03:48.359 --> 01:03:51.480
seeking and I can't put them in words

01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:53.579
but there's this

01:03:53.579 --> 01:03:57.200
feeling different

01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:02.579
yeah that's what Eileen Russell did she

01:04:02.579 --> 01:04:04.500
thought she saw these and she's like oh

01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:07.559
these have the same energies the same

01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:10.319
Energies

01:04:10.319 --> 01:04:12.440
um

01:04:14.640 --> 01:04:17.220
yeah

01:04:17.220 --> 01:04:19.880
foreign

01:04:38.070 --> 01:04:41.599
[Laughter]

01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:44.160
I was taking care of her because she's

01:04:44.160 --> 01:04:46.020
going to have a hip surgery and she was

01:04:46.020 --> 01:04:47.220
like

01:04:47.220 --> 01:04:51.119
off the charts ridiculous but all I did

01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:53.940
was I started making the bed

01:04:53.940 --> 01:04:55.619
that I'm going to sleep in when she has

01:04:55.619 --> 01:04:57.960
her surgery and then I started making a

01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:00.660
meal I'm cleaning the kitchen and I

01:05:00.660 --> 01:05:02.819
couldn't talk to her I didn't want to

01:05:02.819 --> 01:05:05.940
talk about it I just felt

01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:10.380
and as I engaged in the movement and as

01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:13.500
I engaged in the you know the simple

01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:15.960
attention to the cooking and the flow of

01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:17.000
the

01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:22.500
uh I just got I got home to myself and

01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:25.680
so I feel like that was uh

01:05:25.680 --> 01:05:28.140
you know it was it was good I didn't

01:05:28.140 --> 01:05:30.240
make anything out of the anger no no

01:05:30.240 --> 01:05:32.280
that's good I've been like that I've

01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.780
been years ago I would say I'm so angry

01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:39.000
I can't talk to you now

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:41.220
but I was perfectly willing to make a

01:05:41.220 --> 01:05:43.579
wonderful meal it's just the

01:05:43.579 --> 01:05:46.140
inter-subjective thing was just not

01:05:46.140 --> 01:05:48.599
available for me

01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:53.180
and that's okay I mean that's that's

01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:57.559
it is what it is you know

01:05:59.040 --> 01:06:01.819
foreign

01:06:09.299 --> 01:06:11.460
I feel really liberated I'm gonna go

01:06:11.460 --> 01:06:14.050
around and get angrier I'm so excited

01:06:14.050 --> 01:06:17.820
[Laughter]

01:06:29.460 --> 01:06:32.460
foreign

01:06:56.750 --> 01:06:59.820
[Music]

01:07:01.200 --> 01:07:03.660
so this is good because you know at this

01:07:03.660 --> 01:07:06.740
point in the

01:07:07.799 --> 01:07:11.819
uh series we we want to remember like we

01:07:11.819 --> 01:07:14.819
did last year we're in affecting emotion

01:07:14.819 --> 01:07:18.180
we want to fully explore it we don't

01:07:18.180 --> 01:07:21.000
want to fix it we don't want to pretend

01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:25.260
it's not there uh but we're we're only

01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:27.480
dealing as if we didn't have a mind

01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.420
right as if we didn't have pure

01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:34.500
obstructions and so it's really good to

01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:38.720
dive into these modules

01:07:39.359 --> 01:07:43.020
and really examine just this aspect of

01:07:43.020 --> 01:07:45.119
the Human Condition there's much much

01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:47.520
more to The Human Condition but when we

01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:49.319
get really

01:07:49.319 --> 01:07:52.859
uh familiar with this aspect then we can

01:07:52.859 --> 01:07:54.240
build on it

01:07:54.240 --> 01:07:57.059
and and

01:07:57.059 --> 01:08:01.200
to be able to say this is an aspect of

01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:03.359
my experience it's the aspect of the

01:08:03.359 --> 01:08:05.220
Human Condition

01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:08.819
and to just let it be what it is and

01:08:08.819 --> 01:08:10.740
then we you know over time we'll build

01:08:10.740 --> 01:08:12.839
on it but I really love this

01:08:12.839 --> 01:08:14.880
conversation it's in that Spirit like

01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:16.799
when we're in the Psychedelic self and

01:08:16.799 --> 01:08:19.620
get all trippy like we weren't saying

01:08:19.620 --> 01:08:22.500
this is like what we want to be for the

01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:24.420
rest of our life but really to be able

01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:28.440
to be familiar and Invitational and

01:08:28.440 --> 01:08:32.819
welcome and to trust this is

01:08:32.819 --> 01:08:36.799
part of the The Human Condition

01:08:43.859 --> 01:08:45.960
and then we add some words that are a

01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:48.779
little more precise so we can we can

01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:51.179
parse that

01:08:51.179 --> 01:08:53.520
in a way that's easy more easily shared

01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:55.920
and more precise so I really appreciate

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:57.660
the work

01:08:57.660 --> 01:09:01.640
uh that's gone into this today

01:09:06.719 --> 01:09:09.719
foreign

01:09:11.120 --> 01:09:13.739
thank you all so much have a good

01:09:13.739 --> 01:09:15.600
evening I think it might be evening for

01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:17.779
everyone

01:09:18.719 --> 01:09:21.859
I'll see you soon

01:09:25.470 --> 01:09:28.060
[Music]



## Cohort 3

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.179
foreign

00:00:15.090 --> 00:00:17.520
[Music]

00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.240
um

00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:20.160
what we're going to do is I'm going to

00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:24.660
spend until about quarter after okay

00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:26.640
uh

00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.900
to frame uh the session

00:00:30.900 --> 00:00:34.020
and then you will be in breakout groups

00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:38.100
for 45 minutes till the top of the hour

00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:42.059
um to talk about uh

00:00:42.059 --> 00:00:45.660
your understanding of

00:00:45.660 --> 00:00:47.719
um

00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.379
to talk about your understanding of the

00:00:52.379 --> 00:00:54.600
materials so hopefully you've read the

00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.860
course content the post called uh affect

00:00:58.860 --> 00:01:03.480
and emotion parenthesis disposition

00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:06.840
um if you have not read that then feel

00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:09.900
free to ask questions of people that

00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:12.000
you're in a breakout room with because

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.280
the discussion you know and people are

00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:15.740
trying to

00:01:15.740 --> 00:01:18.659
share what they understood about it to

00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:22.680
people who haven't uh delve into it yet

00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:24.900
that's helpful for everyone all the way

00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:27.860
around so this is why we're

00:01:27.860 --> 00:01:30.299
designing the course this way so that

00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:32.220
people who have had time to do the

00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:33.659
reading

00:01:33.659 --> 00:01:36.479
um can help people who are playing a

00:01:36.479 --> 00:01:38.100
little bit of catch up so we'll do that

00:01:38.100 --> 00:01:40.939
until the top of the hour

00:01:40.939 --> 00:01:42.540
and

00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:44.600
um

00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:48.180
what's going to happen this time that's

00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:50.579
a little different is I will put you in

00:01:50.579 --> 00:01:53.759
breakout groups that randomly

00:01:53.759 --> 00:01:56.399
but if I well maybe I won't do that I'm

00:01:56.399 --> 00:01:58.799
just I'm just going to not do what I was

00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:00.299
going to say I'm not going to overthink

00:02:00.299 --> 00:02:02.579
we should be with who

00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:03.420
um

00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:05.460
so um so that's what we're going to do

00:02:05.460 --> 00:02:07.259
we'll be in breakout groups for 45

00:02:07.259 --> 00:02:09.119
minutes we'll come back at the top of

00:02:09.119 --> 00:02:13.379
the hour and we will share what was most

00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:15.060
Salient to us

00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:17.340
why we think these things are starting

00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:19.260
to matter

00:02:19.260 --> 00:02:21.540
um I know last time people started to

00:02:21.540 --> 00:02:23.040
really

00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:24.120
um

00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.840
integrate them with this larger uh

00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.980
project of a new theory of the body so

00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:33.540
um if some of that's happening please

00:02:33.540 --> 00:02:36.120
share share with us

00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.540
and also questions like when you're in

00:02:39.540 --> 00:02:41.040
your dialogue and you're trying to make

00:02:41.040 --> 00:02:42.959
these distinctions and it's not really

00:02:42.959 --> 00:02:46.379
clear uh what do I mean by not really

00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:49.200
clear what the words mean I don't mean

00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:52.800
that you can't just blah blah blah the

00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.560
formal definitions we've given them you

00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:58.800
want to be able to have

00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.340
the phenomenon

00:03:01.340 --> 00:03:03.720
disturb we want to be able to discern

00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:05.940
the phenomenon the different phenomenal

00:03:05.940 --> 00:03:06.840
States

00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.840
between a dispositional state an affect

00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:13.800
an emotion as they arise in the body

00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.940
right so they're they're they have their

00:03:17.940 --> 00:03:20.300
own terms because they're

00:03:20.300 --> 00:03:23.879
neuroanatomically different

00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.040
um but they also have their own terms

00:03:26.040 --> 00:03:27.680
because they point to different

00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.440
experiences that we can identify in our

00:03:31.440 --> 00:03:32.519
bodies

00:03:32.519 --> 00:03:35.459
does that make sense

00:03:35.459 --> 00:03:37.019
so

00:03:37.019 --> 00:03:38.940
um it's not about they don't it's not

00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:41.400
about they have specific terms just so

00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.860
we can Define them we do that so you

00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:47.580
know we have some understanding of uh

00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:50.819
shared meaning making but

00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:53.819
um because they arise it's different

00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:56.700
flavors in the body let's say in the

00:03:56.700 --> 00:03:58.739
same way that

00:03:58.739 --> 00:04:01.080
if I say oh here did you hear that sound

00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.120
you're not running around the eyes

00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.780
looking for something right these These

00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:08.760
are terms that mean something in the

00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:10.260
body

00:04:10.260 --> 00:04:12.720
well maybe Claudia does I think Claudia

00:04:12.720 --> 00:04:15.080
does

00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.419
what I mean I mean obviously we do that

00:04:18.419 --> 00:04:20.880
but you know what I mean so

00:04:20.880 --> 00:04:23.100
um these distinctions are more subtle

00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:27.780
than just ordinary perceptions uh and so

00:04:27.780 --> 00:04:29.759
we want to kind of get a handle on that

00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:31.500
and

00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:34.919
um so the terminology is

00:04:34.919 --> 00:04:37.020
um important and how it lands in your

00:04:37.020 --> 00:04:38.580
body

00:04:38.580 --> 00:04:40.919
um and if some of you have been working

00:04:40.919 --> 00:04:46.759
with this and have gained some insight

00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.860
into

00:04:48.860 --> 00:04:52.919
ah I can see when the affect

00:04:52.919 --> 00:04:56.220
like you can start to

00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:59.100
sense when the energy of the affect

00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:02.580
starts to download thought and become an

00:05:02.580 --> 00:05:05.580
emotion and so if any of you have been

00:05:05.580 --> 00:05:07.620
playing with this

00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:11.100
uh this week share you know some of your

00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:12.720
insights

00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:16.320
um about how can you how can you sense

00:05:16.320 --> 00:05:21.240
that why is it important because uh I

00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:22.860
don't know if you some of you

00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:26.340
read uh the conversation I had on the

00:05:26.340 --> 00:05:29.280
comment section with Ria back

00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:33.000
um between uh some of these

00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.780
some of these Concepts we use in these

00:05:36.780 --> 00:05:40.500
different uh ecologies of practice are

00:05:40.500 --> 00:05:43.620
hopelessly confusing

00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:47.280
so we use this term felt sense

00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:49.380
and people a lot of times sit around

00:05:49.380 --> 00:05:52.919
they speak from the felt sense but this

00:05:52.919 --> 00:05:56.220
is not what genderly meant when he

00:05:56.220 --> 00:05:58.979
created the term felt sense

00:05:58.979 --> 00:06:02.580
he created the term felt sense he said

00:06:02.580 --> 00:06:06.300
I have something percolating in me like

00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:09.120
a poem I have I have had an experience

00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.940
or I'm having an experience

00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:14.340
and I'm trying to give language to that

00:06:14.340 --> 00:06:16.199
experience

00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.500
so I come up with a word

00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.680
and then I check in with my felt sense

00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:26.539
to see if that word is good enough

00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:28.680
see that's different than saying the

00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.440
felt sense has something to say it

00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:33.900
doesn't it's a felt sense it's an

00:06:33.900 --> 00:06:36.120
embodied feeling

00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.419
but it is the measure of which we can

00:06:39.419 --> 00:06:40.800
then measure

00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.660
well is this right or do I really

00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:46.740
believe that and the words in the

00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:49.080
creative act of creating the poem is in

00:06:49.080 --> 00:06:50.460
the imaginal

00:06:50.460 --> 00:06:52.500
that comes out of the imaginal and then

00:06:52.500 --> 00:06:55.500
you check in that's not the word I want

00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:56.819
scratch it out

00:06:56.819 --> 00:06:59.400
use try again you see the difference

00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:01.620
it's not like the felt sense has

00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:04.979
something to say

00:07:04.979 --> 00:07:06.960
it's like the felt sense is

00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:09.419
communicating with you at an embodied

00:07:09.419 --> 00:07:13.800
level you have an Impulse to share that

00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.800
and as you're imagining how you can

00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.560
share that you're checking in with the

00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.240
felt sense to see if it's a good enough

00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:24.180
match and a lot of times we're like I

00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:26.580
don't really like that word but just put

00:07:26.580 --> 00:07:28.560
it there right we don't actually get a

00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:29.639
good match

00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.280
can you see the difference is this very

00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:34.080
important difference a bunch of people

00:07:34.080 --> 00:07:35.340
are running around saying they're

00:07:35.340 --> 00:07:37.500
talking from the felt sense this is not

00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:39.720
an embodied feeling this is in the

00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.199
imaginal

00:07:42.840 --> 00:07:45.960
but you can check what you say against

00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:48.900
the felt sense you can check what you've

00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:51.960
written against the felt sense you can

00:07:51.960 --> 00:07:54.440
check oh I can imagine taking that job

00:07:54.440 --> 00:07:59.360
check that against the felt sense

00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.720
does anybody have a question so I'm just

00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:06.599
starting to elaborate why this exercise

00:08:06.599 --> 00:08:08.759
and distinction

00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:11.960
is important

00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:31.620
then when we are when the affect which

00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:33.599
is an embodied

00:08:33.599 --> 00:08:35.520
flavor

00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:38.000
it's a certain configuration of the body

00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.800
and you guys will talk about this

00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:44.099
according to how I wrote about it but

00:08:44.099 --> 00:08:45.660
when

00:08:45.660 --> 00:08:49.620
it doesn't satisfy itself through

00:08:49.620 --> 00:08:52.920
actions that satisfied or the just by

00:08:52.920 --> 00:08:55.140
flowing into action and fixing something

00:08:55.140 --> 00:08:57.540
you know I get all of a sudden look and

00:08:57.540 --> 00:08:59.640
I catch a ball that almost hit me

00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:03.120
right and then it's done go back I'm no

00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.519
longer in that heightened state of

00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:06.839
affect

00:09:06.839 --> 00:09:10.260
but in many cases the affect comes up

00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:12.720
and then it gets all entangled and

00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.540
hopelessly complexified by story and

00:09:15.540 --> 00:09:17.640
then oh why did he I hate those kids

00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:20.160
those kids she sent those kids out to

00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:22.260
throw that ball out at me and on and on

00:09:22.260 --> 00:09:25.440
and on this becomes emotion right the

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.820
affects has gone boiled up into

00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:31.440
narrative content

00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.100
and narrative content is easy is in the

00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:38.100
virtual space it's either memory we're

00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:39.899
going to make these distinctions or it's

00:09:39.899 --> 00:09:41.760
imaginal

00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:44.399
um so

00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:45.600
um

00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.580
this is the space of which our

00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:49.500
conversation is going to be held there's

00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:51.180
a couple of other things in there the

00:09:51.180 --> 00:09:53.820
difference between guilt and shame you

00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:56.580
might want to talk about that

00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:59.279
and uh

00:09:59.279 --> 00:09:59.940
um

00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:02.760
there's also the Matrix of the affects

00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:06.060
it's interesting to notice uh maybe some

00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:08.459
people have a signature they spend a lot

00:10:08.459 --> 00:10:11.580
of time in here and to really notice

00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:12.860
like

00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:16.140
what is it that makes

00:10:16.140 --> 00:10:19.080
the difference between me feeling angry

00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:21.240
or playful

00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.720
or angry or playful

00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.680
or what what what's the sense in my body

00:10:28.680 --> 00:10:31.380
when when I'm caring for my child all of

00:10:31.380 --> 00:10:33.120
a sudden I'll get panicked of course

00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.279
it's not useful when you're panicked you

00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.440
lose the ability to actually care for

00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.120
your child

00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:44.519
right so if if one of those streams

00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.040
is where you spend a lot of time you can

00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:50.579
start to feel into what is the boundary

00:10:50.579 --> 00:10:53.760
between when they're contracted forms

00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:59.040
and when they're highly functional forms

00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:01.680
and

00:11:01.680 --> 00:11:03.959
how can I see

00:11:03.959 --> 00:11:06.899
how I move away from the functional form

00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:10.880
into the contracted form and how can I

00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:14.880
have a better dispositional State such

00:11:14.880 --> 00:11:17.040
that

00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:19.620
that this position doesn't canalize into

00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:21.120
yet again

00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.459
anger or something like that and if it

00:11:23.459 --> 00:11:24.899
does it does I mean that's what we were

00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:27.300
saying last time like I mean if it is it

00:11:27.300 --> 00:11:31.800
is this and and the idea is to try to

00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:34.620
get information from that if you have a

00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:36.540
signature

00:11:36.540 --> 00:11:39.360
um and the idea also is to try to get

00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.040
information from that that's not

00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:42.959
narrative

00:11:42.959 --> 00:11:45.959
I get angry because my father you know

00:11:45.959 --> 00:11:48.360
where it's like the information is like

00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.079
what is going on in here

00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:54.839
oh I start to breathe shallow well what

00:11:54.839 --> 00:11:57.899
if when that happens and I feel like

00:11:57.899 --> 00:11:59.760
this is going to happen what if I just

00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:01.980
interrupt the whole thing by taking a

00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:03.920
breathing posture

00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:08.220
right so these these series of

00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:10.260
triggers

00:12:10.260 --> 00:12:13.079
if first you can identify them because

00:12:13.079 --> 00:12:15.600
when you can identify them it slows down

00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.060
and then when they're happening you can

00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:21.480
take actions to decouple them from

00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.740
happening so quickly

00:12:25.079 --> 00:12:27.660
so this is just the kinds of things you

00:12:27.660 --> 00:12:30.600
might want to talk about you can how

00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.820
many of them

00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:35.360
what

00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:42.360
God help you who ends up when a room

00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.000
with David today because he got a lot of

00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.880
gesture gesture energy coming out

00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:50.220
also some of you might have seen my

00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:52.620
little conversation with Apostle today

00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.820
uh which was very interesting about

00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:57.959
um

00:12:57.959 --> 00:13:02.820
um love and the dispositional state of

00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:04.740
equanimity

00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:06.779
um if you saw that and you want to talk

00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.700
about it later or in your group that's

00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:13.079
cool too that's now on the table so with

00:13:13.079 --> 00:13:14.339
that said and done are there any

00:13:14.339 --> 00:13:16.760
questions

00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:22.100
help each other out

00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:27.320
how where is that talk Bonnie

00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:30.779
oh it's a it's a dialogue on sub staff

00:13:30.779 --> 00:13:33.420
he commented and then I commented okay

00:13:33.420 --> 00:13:36.899
okay in the app in the app there's a lot

00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:39.779
going on in sub stack right now so yeah

00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:42.120
I'm trying

00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.180
okay so 45 minutes enjoy your

00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:49.279
conversations enjoy each other

00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:55.320
is wrong with him over there amen

00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.339
okay hold on I clicked the wrong thing

00:13:58.339 --> 00:14:03.000
uh and let me see what we have here

00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.000
three participants per room it works

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.399
perfectly now see at the top of the hour

00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.260
oh let me say this when we come back at

00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:12.360
the top of the hour

00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.279
people have been liking this feature

00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.839
where they just come in at the top of

00:14:15.839 --> 00:14:17.220
the hour because they don't have that

00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:19.260
much time and they can get a lot from

00:14:19.260 --> 00:14:22.139
our from our collated conversation so

00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:23.820
when you come back there might be people

00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:26.220
here who uh joined at the top of the

00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:29.519
hour so I'll see you in uh let's see

00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:30.839
options

00:14:30.839 --> 00:14:33.260
options

00:14:33.260 --> 00:14:36.060
uh 40

00:14:36.060 --> 00:14:38.940
. glad I'll see you in 45 minutes enjoy

00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.139
uh your time together



## Cohort 4

00:00:00.359 --> 00:00:01.940
like

00:00:01.940 --> 00:00:06.680
hey Ashley you look cold

00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:13.260
guys this is quite freezing here yeah

00:00:14.940 --> 00:00:20.460
hello everyone Hi Geo nice to see you hi

00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.820
Justin that we got more people coming in

00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:26.359
here so

00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:35.579
okay so

00:00:35.579 --> 00:00:36.480
um

00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:39.059
what we're going to do today and it's

00:00:39.059 --> 00:00:42.140
going to welcome some people

00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:45.780
um

00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:48.960
I think it's been working really well

00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.840
um to the way we're doing these sessions

00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.120
now is

00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:54.660
um

00:00:54.660 --> 00:00:58.320
I spend about 15 minutes until the

00:00:58.320 --> 00:00:59.640
quarter hour

00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:01.440
um quarter after

00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:03.480
um

00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.320
basically partially just uh biting time

00:01:07.320 --> 00:01:10.200
for people to come but also to frame

00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:11.939
what we're going to do

00:01:11.939 --> 00:01:16.500
and in about uh right at about 15

00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:19.380
minutes after the hour you'll go into

00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:24.299
breakout rooms now some of you

00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:27.060
have are more familiar with the material

00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:28.680
because you've already had a couple of

00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:30.780
conversations around it and some of you

00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:33.240
will be this is your first time talking

00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:35.700
about it so when you go on the breakout

00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:38.460
groups it's kind of self-organized as a

00:01:38.460 --> 00:01:41.520
learning community based upon

00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:44.159
um uh whether you're with people who

00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.939
have developed the ideas or not and it

00:01:47.939 --> 00:01:51.560
gives people a chance to not only

00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.560
uh talk about what they've learned so

00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:58.140
that that kind of gives them an

00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.140
opportunity to make the understanding

00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:04.140
deeper but also enables you to learn

00:02:04.140 --> 00:02:06.180
from people who just learned it you know

00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:07.680
and and

00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:08.580
um

00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:10.800
have different ways of talking about it

00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.580
maybe that make uh more sense than

00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.440
um other ways to talk about it so it's

00:02:16.440 --> 00:02:20.040
been it's been working out pretty well

00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:23.640
um but what I wanted to do uh

00:02:23.640 --> 00:02:25.739
so when you go out into your breakout

00:02:25.739 --> 00:02:28.200
groups you'll be approximately three of

00:02:28.200 --> 00:02:30.480
you in each room

00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:34.620
um and you're going to talk about

00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:36.000
um

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.000
you'll be talking about

00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.300
um the course content which if you

00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:46.379
haven't read it it's the post on affect

00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:49.980
and emotion and disposition

00:02:49.980 --> 00:02:55.140
um so the basic goal of this module is

00:02:55.140 --> 00:02:57.480
to know

00:02:57.480 --> 00:03:00.660
um not only the terms like the formal

00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:04.080
definition of the terms but to be able

00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.680
to feel the difference between affect

00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.800
emotion and dispositional stay in your

00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.099
body

00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:17.340
um so we always gonna try to pair the

00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:20.159
definitions the grammar

00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:21.900
two

00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:25.019
how does that feel in the body am I

00:03:25.019 --> 00:03:27.720
working at the level of disposition am I

00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:30.659
working at the level of affect what kind

00:03:30.659 --> 00:03:33.959
of affect is streaming through me is it

00:03:33.959 --> 00:03:38.220
a contracted form of clay which is anger

00:03:38.220 --> 00:03:42.000
and how can I work with those so we all

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.299
we want to be clear about how we use the

00:03:45.299 --> 00:03:47.099
terms you'll do this in your

00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:49.200
conversations and it's in that course

00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:51.060
article

00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:54.900
but also the point is we need precise

00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:57.120
language because we want to be

00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.459
accurately talking about our internal

00:03:59.459 --> 00:04:02.220
embodied experience okay that's the most

00:04:02.220 --> 00:04:05.159
important we could could call them a b c

00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.739
and d for that matter

00:04:07.739 --> 00:04:10.980
um but we have we have these words

00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:14.159
um and when we so then apt so you want

00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:15.420
to know the difference between

00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:18.479
disposition affect and emotion the

00:04:18.479 --> 00:04:20.519
different kinds of affects you could

00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:22.440
talk about

00:04:22.440 --> 00:04:25.380
um and why it matters some of you may

00:04:25.380 --> 00:04:27.240
have that question why does it matter

00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:32.100
how can we use this in the last session

00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:35.340
the last time slot there were people

00:04:35.340 --> 00:04:37.979
that were working in this field of

00:04:37.979 --> 00:04:41.240
psychology there was some very uh

00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:43.620
Advanced questions

00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:45.600
um so it doesn't matter if your

00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:49.440
questions are fundamental or

00:04:49.440 --> 00:04:53.940
um you're trying to map it onto some

00:04:53.940 --> 00:04:56.479
kind of mature work you're doing

00:04:56.479 --> 00:05:00.780
the whole Spectrum we can we can work

00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:03.259
with here

00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:06.660
um but I wanted to do something a little

00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:08.340
bit different

00:05:08.340 --> 00:05:09.780
um

00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:11.660
to start today

00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:15.960
and that is to

00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:17.960
um

00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:24.060
uh

00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:27.740
why can't I find it

00:05:28.860 --> 00:05:31.080
hold on

00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:35.060
I have to not find it

00:05:41.880 --> 00:05:43.740
I just wanted to start with a little

00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:45.240
practice

00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:46.259
um

00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:47.400
against

00:05:47.400 --> 00:05:50.039
see this

00:05:50.039 --> 00:05:52.400
here

00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:54.180
um

00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:57.419
and that is this

00:05:57.419 --> 00:06:01.560
it's called The Gap model grounded aware

00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:04.199
present this is

00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.300
a

00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:08.539
a

00:06:08.539 --> 00:06:10.979
recommended dispositional State like

00:06:10.979 --> 00:06:14.340
what is a very very good dispositional

00:06:14.340 --> 00:06:15.320
state

00:06:15.320 --> 00:06:17.880
from which to come

00:06:17.880 --> 00:06:20.639
has these characteristics

00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:24.180
and as I read this try to reflect on

00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:26.460
what's your disc what's your basic

00:06:26.460 --> 00:06:28.620
energetic

00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:32.220
sense of yourself right now and try to

00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:34.979
reflect on where you think you're doing

00:06:34.979 --> 00:06:36.960
well where you think

00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:38.520
you may

00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:41.340
not uh

00:06:41.340 --> 00:06:43.979
not be in this kind of Zone that I'm

00:06:43.979 --> 00:06:46.880
going to talk about

00:06:47.039 --> 00:06:49.560
so this the way this works is there's

00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:54.440
three levels each level going deeper

00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:59.460
develops the uh the idea further so I'm

00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:03.000
going to read them across this way and

00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.400
then read the deeper level and then read

00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:08.759
the deeper level and notice what you

00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:11.160
think is interesting and what you think

00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:13.979
is why that you know if you have a

00:07:13.979 --> 00:07:15.900
confusion around something then it's

00:07:15.900 --> 00:07:18.539
probably something you're not including

00:07:18.539 --> 00:07:22.039
in your daily practice

00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:25.440
so do I feel sensitive sensitive to my

00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:27.180
effective state

00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:30.539
it's rhythms pulses oscillations and

00:07:30.539 --> 00:07:34.139
changes so this is inviting you not to

00:07:34.139 --> 00:07:37.440
just have a static sense of yourself but

00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:40.259
get my sensitive to that it's a rhythm

00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:43.940
that oscillates that it's it's it's

00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:47.780
Dynamic and flowing

00:07:47.900 --> 00:07:50.639
so that's the first step in grounding

00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.060
aware am I perceptive are my perceptual

00:07:54.060 --> 00:07:56.759
skills activated can I hear or smell

00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.180
feel and move accurately are my

00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:02.759
perceptions integrating into a dynamic

00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.340
scene of what is actually happening so

00:08:05.340 --> 00:08:07.560
is all my perceptions working together

00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.860
to give me a whole

00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:12.660
understanding of an awareness of the

00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:14.759
world or as I'm listening to this and

00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.099
thinking about that and

00:08:17.099 --> 00:08:20.699
so it am I so that's what the first

00:08:20.699 --> 00:08:23.220
level of awareness is and present do I

00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:25.199
feel empathy for the other can I be

00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:26.400
present

00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:28.620
to the others and this could be humans

00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:30.720
and non-humans

00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.940
can I put myself in the other's place

00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:36.979
and feel from their situation so am I

00:08:36.979 --> 00:08:41.099
contained in my own like reality or do I

00:08:41.099 --> 00:08:43.979
have this open presence

00:08:43.979 --> 00:08:46.740
then we go deeper am I open to letting

00:08:46.740 --> 00:08:49.080
go of old Sensations and letting come

00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.380
New Sensations trusting the rhythm of my

00:08:52.380 --> 00:08:54.839
body to do its thing so here am I

00:08:54.839 --> 00:08:57.720
sensitive to the Rhythm but here am I

00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.720
open to

00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.540
maybe this Rhythm exploring territories

00:09:03.540 --> 00:09:06.839
that I'm not familiar with or that I'm

00:09:06.839 --> 00:09:09.920
reluctant to go to go with

00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:13.560
aware do I feel balanced can I return to

00:09:13.560 --> 00:09:15.540
a workable situation and find

00:09:15.540 --> 00:09:18.240
affordances ready at hand to help move

00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.120
toward preferred outcomes can I learn

00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.700
quickly learn the skills needed am I am

00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:26.820
I navigating the world

00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:30.540
in a balanced way not just being aware

00:09:30.540 --> 00:09:32.760
of it

00:09:32.760 --> 00:09:36.000
presence do I feel embedded in the

00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.100
larger systems that are transubjective

00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.260
and transpersonal so going from the

00:09:40.260 --> 00:09:43.440
empathy of the other to this sense of

00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.620
this larger context that I'm in do I

00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:48.839
sense enough space for maneuverability

00:09:48.839 --> 00:09:50.360
or does the situation feel

00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:55.500
claustrophobic so this is how large

00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.500
a perspective I can be present with and

00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:01.519
feel from that

00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.560
and then the last level is uh can I be

00:10:07.560 --> 00:10:09.899
receptive to surprise so you see how it

00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:12.180
works um I know that it's oscillation

00:10:12.180 --> 00:10:15.480
that things are moving now I'm going to

00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.360
trust that I can my body can do its own

00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:21.779
thing and not resist it moving in ways

00:10:21.779 --> 00:10:25.140
that are unfamiliar to me and now I'm

00:10:25.140 --> 00:10:27.899
actually interested in receptive to

00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.240
surprise that what is actually happening

00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:32.459
versus what I want to be happening can I

00:10:32.459 --> 00:10:35.399
be receptive to this emergent flux and

00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.800
flow of reality can I let my body go

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:40.980
into unfamiliar territory and wonder oh

00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:43.260
what is that whoa I've never seen that

00:10:43.260 --> 00:10:45.500
before

00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:49.380
aware do I have Clarity keenness is is

00:10:49.380 --> 00:10:54.120
the world revealed to me in a sharp way

00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.940
am I experiencing a keen sense of

00:10:56.940 --> 00:10:59.339
perceptual Clarity or it's opposite

00:10:59.339 --> 00:11:02.519
which is brain fog when I scan the

00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:04.500
environment do I detect multiple choice

00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:07.079
points for right action

00:11:07.079 --> 00:11:09.480
so how much of the world is revealed to

00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.480
me with clarity

00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.240
and then presence do I have a sense of

00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:16.680
inter being

00:11:16.680 --> 00:11:19.019
can I shift the notion of body into the

00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:21.540
larger context of the natural world in

00:11:21.540 --> 00:11:24.600
the reality of The Human Condition and

00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:27.000
if you see something curious this

00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.940
question here is

00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:33.779
the goal of this course which is a new

00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:36.959
theory of the body can you see how

00:11:36.959 --> 00:11:42.120
the whole thing is working toward this

00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.700
so I just wanted to spend a little more

00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:47.640
time we've been having

00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:53.700
um we had the time to see how

00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:57.560
like what is in those boxes

00:11:57.839 --> 00:11:59.940
and what would it be like to come from

00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:03.620
that dispositional space

00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:06.120
and to be able to trust

00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:10.040
that level of intelligence

00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.660
so it's a pretty big Matrix uh very hard

00:12:18.660 --> 00:12:22.920
for real people like us to be there all

00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:26.040
the time but it's also an aspirational

00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:28.680
goal right so

00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:31.740
so and it has a lot of little practical

00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:35.100
wisdom in it I think

00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:36.899
um and I was reading it over today and I

00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:39.779
noticed that that whole bottom right

00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:42.839
box really requires a new theory of the

00:12:42.839 --> 00:12:47.480
body can I extend the notion of a body

00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:53.820
okay thank you very much are there any

00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:58.139
questions in the chat or just highs okay

00:12:58.139 --> 00:13:00.600
all right so

00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.860
um yes evil please yeah just real quick

00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:06.420
uh why did you choose the word

00:13:06.420 --> 00:13:08.060
disposition

00:13:08.060 --> 00:13:12.300
yeah okay so it turns out this is not a

00:13:12.300 --> 00:13:14.760
word Landing with people even from the

00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:17.160
very first it comes from enactment

00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:19.560
Theory uh it's called a dispositional

00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:20.760
state

00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:23.579
those three actually come from an active

00:13:23.579 --> 00:13:25.920
theory dispositional state positional

00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:29.639
state gestural state and

00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.279
you could use the word mood like what's

00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.320
a general mood

00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.060
um

00:13:35.060 --> 00:13:39.720
but uh it's not Landing some people use

00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.440
when did an etymological search of it it

00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.160
happens to be not Landing so

00:13:47.160 --> 00:13:49.380
um I recognize that and I don't have

00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:52.860
anything better right now uh and then

00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.680
we'll we'll use it until we we come up

00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:57.420
with a better term but this is like the

00:13:57.420 --> 00:13:58.740
third time that

00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:00.000
you know

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.720
signal that it it's for me it's you know

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:08.820
so familiar uh but uh it's like your

00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:12.600
disposition to do something but yeah so

00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.899
it works for some people but it is not

00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:17.519
perfect

00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.920
yeah yeah thanks so much yeah I asked

00:14:19.920 --> 00:14:21.720
because you know I have my own kind of

00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.700
working definition it's not written down

00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.639
somewhere but of that word and um and

00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:28.200
then so it kind of is slightly different

00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:30.660
but yeah thanks for the clarification

00:14:30.660 --> 00:14:32.519
yeah

00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:34.500
okay good question all right so we're

00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:39.060
gonna go into uh breakout groups and we

00:14:39.060 --> 00:14:42.120
let the computer do that

00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.820
um so let's see we're going to 45

00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:47.940
minutes we'll come back at the hour now

00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.579
I did have an invitation for people to

00:14:50.579 --> 00:14:54.360
use this course design to join us at the

00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.519
hour if that's all the time they had so

00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:58.620
don't be surprised some people have been

00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:01.260
coming in at the hour mark so there may

00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:03.480
be people joining us when we come back

00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.639
to kind of get to download you know

00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.500
we'll do all the work for them and then

00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:09.959
they can get the downloads so

00:15:09.959 --> 00:15:12.420
um enjoy your company enjoy your

00:15:12.420 --> 00:15:14.279
conversation

00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.779
and let's see

00:15:21.560 --> 00:15:26.180
options okay enjoy

00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:48.619
[Music]

00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.560
foreign

00:15:52.260 --> 00:15:54.120
yeah and you know that was my friend

00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.540
eche so I kind of I kind of knew already

00:15:57.540 --> 00:16:00.420
what she was talking about

00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:02.279
when I was talking to her about that the

00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.440
other day

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.500
yeah

00:16:06.540 --> 00:16:09.019
so

00:16:14.760 --> 00:16:17.160
funny well they were recording so these

00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:21.500
sessions yes yes

00:16:23.339 --> 00:16:25.620
feel the way it is is we have like

00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:28.139
almost a week and a half at the end of

00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:31.260
the month rotation where people can play

00:16:31.260 --> 00:16:34.139
around with the recordings

00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:38.579
you know this does do any of you know if

00:16:38.579 --> 00:16:40.139
YouTube

00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:42.420
I've seen people do like these time

00:16:42.420 --> 00:16:44.699
stamps I should time stamp the

00:16:44.699 --> 00:16:47.100
recordings maybe I'll get someone it's a

00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:50.100
lot of work I should get some someone to

00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:51.420
do that

00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:53.279
because then you could say oh they're

00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.560
talking about this here and and just

00:16:55.560 --> 00:16:59.160
kind of yeah that would be good

00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:02.600
green bomb

00:17:02.990 --> 00:17:05.579
[Music]

00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:09.419
okay we're recording now

00:17:09.419 --> 00:17:15.780
and so uh we have Ria Annalee and Zoe uh

00:17:15.780 --> 00:17:19.860
came came into uh share the main session

00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:23.699
with us okay so who wants to share first

00:17:23.699 --> 00:17:27.419
like what what you're talking to you're

00:17:27.419 --> 00:17:28.919
talking to these people you want to know

00:17:28.919 --> 00:17:30.480
what did you learn

00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.580
what is the question you're holding that

00:17:32.580 --> 00:17:35.220
needs clarification

00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.440
did someone say something interesting

00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.419
and you hadn't thought of it that way

00:17:39.419 --> 00:17:42.780
with did you build on something

00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:44.299
um yeah

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:47.600
it's open

00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.700
well Bonnie if I could just jump in real

00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:59.280
quick uh I'll just say briefly

00:17:59.280 --> 00:18:00.419
um

00:18:00.419 --> 00:18:02.039
um I I was

00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.140
um in a small group with Susan and

00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:07.679
Claudia and there was the in uh the

00:18:07.679 --> 00:18:10.200
intention and the attention to the

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.280
language

00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:14.820
and the concepts and then the experience

00:18:14.820 --> 00:18:17.280
of those like the concepts in our

00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:18.960
conversation

00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.940
um that I found to be so helpful and so

00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:23.419
Illuminating

00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.620
excellent because

00:18:28.620 --> 00:18:30.780
you start and you know you get why so

00:18:30.780 --> 00:18:33.179
many terms and this and that but the

00:18:33.179 --> 00:18:35.340
idea is

00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:39.600
to be able to notice this is for

00:18:39.600 --> 00:18:41.580
everyday ordinary

00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:45.900
life just gonna change and improve and

00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:47.820
benefit

00:18:47.820 --> 00:18:50.220
it's not

00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:52.679
you know I mean we put those woo way and

00:18:52.679 --> 00:18:55.559
those but but yeah and so the more you

00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.720
talk to people and that you can just oh

00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.179
that's happened you know blah blah blah

00:19:00.179 --> 00:19:01.679
yeah

00:19:01.679 --> 00:19:03.299
um and now you notice when you're

00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:04.860
talking to them

00:19:04.860 --> 00:19:07.140
you're not one words person's using the

00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:08.760
word emotions the only ones are using

00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:10.380
the word my feelings got you know what

00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:12.539
I'm saying that you can't have a

00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:15.000
conversation

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.740
if if we don't have some shared terms so

00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:22.340
thanks

00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.280
uh I'm wondering Rogers an example of

00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:30.140
something that got illuminated for you

00:19:34.580 --> 00:19:36.419
well

00:19:36.419 --> 00:19:37.860
so

00:19:37.860 --> 00:19:40.440
we actually talked about well what

00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.200
exactly is a disposition and then what

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.700
exactly is an affect and uh in that in

00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:50.460
the scaffolding of the concepts it was

00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:52.080
well what's the disposition that we're

00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:55.700
feeling I'm feeling right now

00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.919
um what's the affect and then in the

00:19:58.919 --> 00:20:01.919
conversation noticing the shift in a

00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:05.340
disposition and the shift in the affect

00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:08.580
and then the impact it had on me

00:20:08.580 --> 00:20:12.480
in um the connections and the depth of a

00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.539
conversation that was possible

00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:18.260
so it was a disposition of contraction

00:20:18.260 --> 00:20:21.660
to a disposition of openness

00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:25.799
an affect of fear to an affect of

00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.480
connectedness I mean those are all the

00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.100
journey

00:20:29.100 --> 00:20:30.960
um and it was like it was a paying

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.660
attention to that without an unconscious

00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:37.220
stumbling around all that

00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:41.039
okay now I'm going to say something very

00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.679
big because this is a very big insight

00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:51.299
you know how we say the body has more

00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:53.400
precise and then language is coarse

00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.559
grained

00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.400
all the meaning is made at the level you

00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:00.960
just described

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.480
people could be knitting together

00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.280
you don't need to be in we space

00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:07.500
practices talking about metaphysical

00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:10.679
Concepts like emptiness it'll get it'll

00:21:10.679 --> 00:21:13.140
it can get you there but it can confuse

00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:14.960
you

00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:18.840
because all the meaning is made more

00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:20.640
precisely at the level you are just

00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.120
tracking

00:21:25.919 --> 00:21:28.740
this very big insight

00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:30.900
remember the last time we said oh the

00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:33.919
meaning's not in the words

00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:39.500
and then you can get very good at seeing

00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.880
these things self-organize

00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.340
so you trust the larger body of

00:21:52.340 --> 00:21:54.960
self-organization so that's where that

00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.900
kind of work goes it starts here in

00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:00.480
ordinary life because it's all the same

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.480
but but

00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.380
yeah it's a big Insight I mean and and

00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:11.280
and congratulations for the the

00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:14.460
group for reflecting on what's happening

00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:18.480
right now into the conversation

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.320
um yeah great

00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:24.299
Bonnie I just want to ask you when you

00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:26.880
said you can get good at seeing these

00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.760
things self-organized which these things

00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:31.799
are you referring to

00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:34.679
like what Raj says first there was a

00:22:34.679 --> 00:22:36.360
contraction and then there was an

00:22:36.360 --> 00:22:38.640
expansion and then it made kind of this

00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.220
affect and then that kind of that affect

00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:43.860
it's like watching paramecium

00:22:43.860 --> 00:22:47.760
in a bowl moving

00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:50.640
in response to everyone else

00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.679
and then you start to see there's an

00:22:52.679 --> 00:22:55.940
intelligence in the system

00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.679
we'll get further into that because what

00:23:01.679 --> 00:23:04.740
are affects their blood cells and

00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.679
chemicals moving and self-organizing in

00:23:07.679 --> 00:23:09.840
your body

00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:13.380
just practically it's the exact same

00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:15.980
thing

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:18.000
did I does that make sense this is where

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.419
we're going with this habit right so so

00:23:21.419 --> 00:23:24.780
what's happening between the people now

00:23:24.780 --> 00:23:28.860
inside my body is a natural Ecology of

00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:33.059
cells and blood cells and gut biome and

00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:35.900
they're using this same sensitivity

00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:39.240
responding to each other and moving

00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.700
things along in my body which makes the

00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.220
affects in my body that move along with

00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:47.900
you and Collective space

00:23:56.820 --> 00:24:01.220
this notion of deep continuity

00:24:02.100 --> 00:24:03.539
of the

00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:07.799
environment that my body is for other

00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.799
inter-individuals

00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.659
at these different fractal scales

00:24:15.659 --> 00:24:17.700
I mean that's where we're going with

00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:21.500
this if you remember the the early

00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:24.480
introductory ones about

00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.480
the internal environment being the

00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.880
external environment being the internal

00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.480
environment

00:24:34.340 --> 00:24:37.679
and funny what does this model hold

00:24:37.679 --> 00:24:38.640
about

00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.620
what thoughts are or where they come

00:24:40.620 --> 00:24:42.960
from like are we generating them or are

00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.120
they existing outside of us and sort of

00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:46.080
coming

00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.419
into us

00:24:48.419 --> 00:24:50.940
yeah we'll get to there I'm gonna give

00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:55.140
you a a an answer because this is a good

00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:57.360
question but we're gonna we'll get into

00:24:57.360 --> 00:24:59.700
it much more

00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:02.220
in detail when we go into thoughts and

00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:04.740
pure abstractions okay

00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.900
but in general

00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:11.220
we're non-dualistic so so

00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:13.500
if you're thinking words in your head

00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.080
that's one kind of thought

00:25:16.080 --> 00:25:20.400
what that actually is is let's say I

00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.840
think the word

00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:23.100
Inc

00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:26.640
in my head and I can kind of hear ink

00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.820
what's happening is the muscles that

00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:32.279
make that word

00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.659
are firing in my tongue in my ink

00:25:36.659 --> 00:25:39.179
they're firing at a sub threshold level

00:25:39.179 --> 00:25:43.620
so that my mouth doesn't actually move

00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:47.039
but my brain can feel

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.720
that that pattern and so it reproduces

00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.700
the sound in my head

00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:56.340
so thoughts in your head are sub

00:25:56.340 --> 00:25:59.120
threshold actions we call them

00:25:59.120 --> 00:26:02.400
microactions that the body takes for the

00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:05.520
concrete experience of talking to

00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:08.059
oneself

00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:11.279
does that make sense

00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.860
and so then other kinds of thoughts in

00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:16.740
your head are images whole sentences

00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.260
just carry on from that

00:26:19.260 --> 00:26:22.320
um but basically it's just something the

00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:25.039
body is doing

00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:26.700
thoughts in your head

00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:28.980
it's going to get more extreme because

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:32.279
then we have imagination

00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:37.260
simulation we'll look at this but

00:26:37.260 --> 00:26:38.220
um

00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:41.400
in every case we're going to try to aim

00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.279
for a deep continuity so at some point

00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:46.260
we'll say oh those are thoughts and some

00:26:46.260 --> 00:26:48.299
point we say that is the body but that's

00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:51.779
just the convention of language

00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:54.320
and we might not be able to know exactly

00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:57.600
you know every all languages like that

00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:00.179
like

00:27:00.179 --> 00:27:02.700
you can it's easy to say though that's

00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:05.760
alive and that's dead or not alive but

00:27:05.760 --> 00:27:07.320
there's all these in the in between

00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:09.900
where things aren't quite like viruses

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:11.279
they don't know whether to say it's

00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.659
alive so uh the the gaps comes from our

00:27:15.659 --> 00:27:18.000
that our language can't

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.100
can't

00:27:20.100 --> 00:27:23.279
cross that intersection without

00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.880
switching so we will use those terms

00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.700
thoughts and mind and body but we're

00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:31.260
trying to build a theory of the body

00:27:31.260 --> 00:27:34.559
where there's a deep continuity

00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:36.419
all the way up and all the all the way

00:27:36.419 --> 00:27:39.299
down yeah okay thanks yeah my reason for

00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:41.580
asking was actually because when I was

00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:44.580
sick with covet I had thoughts that are

00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:46.500
very atypical for me really and like and

00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.539
I was wondering is it a product of being

00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:50.400
in like a contracted and depressed state

00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.980
or is that the virus interacting with my

00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:56.159
thought patterns or is it something like

00:27:56.159 --> 00:27:58.799
when I'm in that contracted that I

00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.080
somehow become receptive to thoughts at

00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:03.179
like if there was like a biosphere with

00:28:03.179 --> 00:28:04.919
levels of different kinds of thoughts

00:28:04.919 --> 00:28:07.500
like am I attracting a certain valence

00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.320
of thought and so anyway yeah so I think

00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:14.039
it's all of that and and for example

00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.140
um posture can really affect what

00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:18.900
thoughts your your your okay I'm going

00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.240
to use this typical conventional way of

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.820
speaking that the Mind wants to help out

00:28:23.820 --> 00:28:27.179
so it makes up things you know so if

00:28:27.179 --> 00:28:29.340
you're sick it might make up well is it

00:28:29.340 --> 00:28:31.980
in the water or is it this or is it that

00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:36.240
um but posture also changes the way the

00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.419
thought patterns are or stops thoughts

00:28:39.419 --> 00:28:43.260
um so all of these things are very

00:28:43.260 --> 00:28:43.880
um

00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:47.520
participate in in that and of course the

00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:49.799
kobit might have been in your brain I

00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:54.200
don't know but uh yeah

00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:00.659
kids kids know this

00:29:00.659 --> 00:29:03.960
okay I used to be like this when you

00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.159
don't when it's very fine line between

00:29:07.159 --> 00:29:10.080
when you don't want to go to school and

00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:12.900
you tell your mommy you're sick you put

00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:15.779
your body in a posture and you feel sick

00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:18.120
a very fine line they know how to do

00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:20.220
this and then the parent kind of knows

00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.740
but you're also sick because not wanting

00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:25.200
to go to schools in the pot the whole

00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.779
thing so

00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:30.299
um you yeah

00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:32.760
kids learn that it's not like they're

00:29:32.760 --> 00:29:37.260
lying it's it's it's all

00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:39.720
kind of

00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:43.820
participation of all these levels

00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:09.840
something that came up in our group

00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:12.000
towards the end was a

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.080
some of us had questions about anxiety

00:30:15.080 --> 00:30:17.880
or were wondering if you could go more

00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.260
into anxiety

00:30:19.260 --> 00:30:21.320
um

00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:24.600
yeah specifically the idea that anxiety

00:30:24.600 --> 00:30:29.340
results in a down regulation of arousal

00:30:29.340 --> 00:30:31.520
um

00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:36.960
doesn't quite align with what seems like

00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.460
my experience of anxiety where it's like

00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:40.799
the arousal is just like aroused but

00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.000
it's not going anywhere it's just like

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.140
remaining aroused in this like

00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:48.240
undirected

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.340
way

00:30:50.340 --> 00:30:52.440
um I'm curious if that

00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.080
is true to what you mean by anxiety or

00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:58.679
if you could just go into it more

00:30:58.679 --> 00:31:00.480
yeah we're kind of saying the same thing

00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.419
and I do want to say is this is a

00:31:03.419 --> 00:31:06.000
particular definition in anxiety we're

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.860
going to work with and there's a lot of

00:31:07.860 --> 00:31:10.380
other ways I think we're saying the same

00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:11.760
thing

00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:16.020
so for example uh if I'm going to give a

00:31:16.020 --> 00:31:18.000
speech and and

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:24.539
at a uh eulogy at a really sad situation

00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:26.700
a couple of things are happening I'm sad

00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.399
and I'm afraid I'm going to cry so

00:31:29.399 --> 00:31:31.620
there's quite a lot of arousal they're

00:31:31.620 --> 00:31:33.779
in both those areas

00:31:33.779 --> 00:31:38.220
and if I prepare myself

00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.000
I can down regulate that and I won't I

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.539
can feel that they're there but I feel

00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:49.320
more not so sad and not so fearful I

00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:51.000
just feel anxious

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.600
that's anxiety so so

00:31:54.600 --> 00:31:57.480
um in that sense but

00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:02.520
in a sense you're saying is is

00:32:02.520 --> 00:32:06.360
in many cases correct me if I wrong in

00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:07.980
what you're saying so ask it again in

00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.580
many cases

00:32:10.620 --> 00:32:15.299
we have uh an asset comes like let's say

00:32:15.299 --> 00:32:17.760
I'm angry and I can't do anything about

00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:20.059
it

00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:25.500
and then I get anxious instead

00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:28.860
right but not doing something about it

00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:31.320
is down regulating it because these

00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:33.600
things were created in your animal body

00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:36.919
to produce action

00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:39.600
so when that happens

00:32:39.600 --> 00:32:43.380
you have it's a marker you have a choice

00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:46.440
right am I going to continue to be angry

00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:49.080
like or am I going to do something about

00:32:49.080 --> 00:32:52.500
it or you could stay back down in the

00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:55.140
dispositional state of it's so you know

00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:57.960
it's just anxiety but it's an

00:32:57.960 --> 00:32:59.340
opportunity

00:32:59.340 --> 00:33:03.380
to make actual choice

00:33:03.899 --> 00:33:07.740
now usually when you're stuck there and

00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:09.720
if you're good you're just stuck you're

00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.240
not stuck you're processing between the

00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.000
arousal and the anxiety and the action

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.260
that satisfies it

00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.620
just be watch out that's now there's not

00:33:22.620 --> 00:33:26.580
a story that comes in so

00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:29.519
I read something about Ukraine I get

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.600
angry

00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:34.760
I can't do anything about it

00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.820
the body wants to take action so maybe I

00:33:38.820 --> 00:33:41.100
just complain or I get on social media

00:33:41.100 --> 00:33:44.340
and am I actually doing something about

00:33:44.340 --> 00:33:47.220
it or am I just using that energy so I

00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:48.840
don't get anxious

00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:51.059
am I doing something about it or am I

00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:53.340
just taking sides

00:33:53.340 --> 00:33:55.620
would I go back and say this makes me

00:33:55.620 --> 00:33:57.659
really angry

00:33:57.659 --> 00:34:00.720
what are you gonna do about it that you

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.399
can do about it

00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.080
and that will push you into another

00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:09.960
affect like oh why don't I go and care

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:11.580
for someone who's sick down there

00:34:11.580 --> 00:34:15.780
because at least I'm helping one person

00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:17.520
so

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:18.899
I don't know if I answer your question

00:34:18.899 --> 00:34:21.780
but I think a lot of times in the in our

00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:24.480
modern world something is justifiable

00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.820
that we have this affect

00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:29.220
but we can't get to an action that

00:34:29.220 --> 00:34:32.040
satisfies it

00:34:32.040 --> 00:34:35.399
so then we have to come back and say you

00:34:35.399 --> 00:34:37.040
know

00:34:37.040 --> 00:34:41.040
what do you really see these these these

00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:45.119
affects were made to produce action

00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.280
and so a lot of times the action just

00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:49.260
goes into narrative and story and that's

00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:52.080
not really helpful

00:34:52.080 --> 00:34:54.000
and it usually doesn't

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.220
you can tell it's not helpful because it

00:34:56.220 --> 00:34:58.740
doesn't satisfy the arousal it just goes

00:34:58.740 --> 00:35:01.260
on and on and on being angry or on and

00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:05.000
on and on being aroused

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.780
so it gives you an opportunity to say to

00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:11.700
ask yourself that question they are

00:35:11.700 --> 00:35:15.060
action oriented

00:35:15.060 --> 00:35:18.060
Sensations

00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.339
not the ones weighing the third category

00:35:20.339 --> 00:35:22.320
they're there when you get totally

00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:26.099
Paralyzed by Rage or by grief

00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.500
or by dread

00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:31.079
um they're still meant to be actions but

00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.420
they have to move like rage has to move

00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:35.220
to anger

00:35:35.220 --> 00:35:38.640
in order for it because they need to be

00:35:38.640 --> 00:35:41.040
activated curiously enough they need to

00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:43.940
be activated

00:35:45.660 --> 00:35:48.480
turn clarifier like just put some more

00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.099
language to this

00:35:50.099 --> 00:35:52.200
um I think the the gap between kind of

00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:54.119
bridge that

00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:55.980
um the definition that's written makes

00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:57.720
it seem like anxiety should be

00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:59.099
experienced as like a lower radical

00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:00.000
state

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.560
whereas our experience seems to be that

00:36:01.560 --> 00:36:04.619
it's like a higher arousal State and

00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:06.420
to just say what you said again back to

00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.800
you to see if we're understanding or if

00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:09.720
I'm understanding what you're saying is

00:36:09.720 --> 00:36:13.140
like there are these default means of

00:36:13.140 --> 00:36:15.119
like there are affective states that

00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:18.359
want to arise and the thing that feels

00:36:18.359 --> 00:36:20.400
like a charge or an energy that I call

00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.859
anxiety is basically like some sort of

00:36:22.859 --> 00:36:24.900
energy that the system is putting into

00:36:24.900 --> 00:36:26.220
inhibiting

00:36:26.220 --> 00:36:28.380
these like the system from falling into

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:30.540
the Basin of Attraction of a particular

00:36:30.540 --> 00:36:32.579
affective State and it takes like an

00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:34.500
active input of energy to prevent the

00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:36.839
gravitation towards the attractor

00:36:36.839 --> 00:36:38.280
um and that's why it feels like a charge

00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:40.800
that is like high I would think of it as

00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.180
a high energy State not a low energy

00:36:42.180 --> 00:36:45.839
State and um you're saying that the

00:36:45.839 --> 00:36:47.940
the skillful thing to do in this context

00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.420
is actually to find some means of moving

00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.940
the system towards a more functional

00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.640
affective state or like connecting it to

00:36:56.640 --> 00:36:58.440
a more relevant story than the one that

00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:00.060
is like by default trying to gravitate

00:37:00.060 --> 00:37:01.260
towards

00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:03.960
yeah so I like the way you described

00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.260
that anxiety has a lot more a lot of

00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:09.780
energy in it like it it's it's it's loud

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.540
in your body let's say yeah

00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:14.760
um and in fact affects when they go

00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.280
directly into action they just flow like

00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.440
woo way Flow State so that's why you

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.680
don't get the anxiety they're more

00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:26.099
active but they're not like

00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:28.980
yeah yeah so

00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:33.540
um but I'm not sure I understood uh what

00:37:33.540 --> 00:37:35.579
you were saying the recommendation is

00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:38.880
the recommendation is always to either

00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:40.380
Act

00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:43.380
this is a true thing like you know what

00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:46.079
I'm done with that I'm gonna go in and

00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.180
yell at them because that's a boundary

00:37:48.180 --> 00:37:50.579
that I want to hold I don't want my at

00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:53.820
you know so get over it get it over with

00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:58.020
or you could say if it's anger

00:37:58.020 --> 00:38:00.839
you know why why do I have these

00:38:00.839 --> 00:38:04.440
boundaries like the guy can't even like

00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.020
you know what I'm saying so you so you

00:38:07.020 --> 00:38:09.060
have to ask yourself questions and they

00:38:09.060 --> 00:38:12.780
could be different things or it could be

00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:15.440
that

00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:19.560
in my experience it's always easier

00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:23.339
to take action even so like if I can't

00:38:23.339 --> 00:38:27.540
act on the war in Ukraine I can't act on

00:38:27.540 --> 00:38:31.680
the driver that ran over my bike I can't

00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:36.300
act on these things then for me I like

00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:39.300
to then well take this energy and put it

00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:41.880
some towards something I can do could be

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:46.079
even it's not even in the same domain

00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:51.780
um but uh you could also it's very hard

00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:54.380
to

00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:57.960
you could also just let it go I mean it

00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.420
as an impossible situation I find that

00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:02.460
more difficult to do and then get back

00:39:02.460 --> 00:39:04.320
down to a disposition State because then

00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.359
the anxiety if the anxiety comes up it

00:39:06.359 --> 00:39:08.880
means you didn't really up Let It Go

00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.220
the problem with that is it tends to try

00:39:11.220 --> 00:39:12.839
to find

00:39:12.839 --> 00:39:15.420
find the opportunity to express itself

00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:18.119
so the next time someone does something

00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:21.780
a little bad that all that asset comes

00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:25.020
out so they are action they're calls for

00:39:25.020 --> 00:39:27.720
Action that's very they're fundamental

00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:30.720
uh

00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:34.339
reason for existence

00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:41.160
Claudia good questions

00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:43.320
yeah I just wanted to add perception

00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.260
into what you're describing that and

00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:49.020
releasing this charge of anxiety it's

00:39:49.020 --> 00:39:50.880
through perception

00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:51.720
um

00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:54.119
you know and it can just be just a

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:55.619
little

00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:59.099
just actually perceiving you know

00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:03.380
what's going on yeah say more

00:40:03.380 --> 00:40:06.359
yes yeah say a little more

00:40:06.359 --> 00:40:08.640
yeah like I was noticing it today as I

00:40:08.640 --> 00:40:10.560
was walking I mean I was in a beautiful

00:40:10.560 --> 00:40:12.900
space so the perception really did

00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:15.480
satisfy the anxiety I was feeling before

00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.820
this so the anxiety came up I was sort

00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:20.339
of adding story

00:40:20.339 --> 00:40:22.500
you know I was actually a little bit

00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:24.599
kind of fearful

00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:26.880
um you know actual emotion of fear so I

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:30.000
was already in story and I I realized at

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.260
that point I wasn't seeing anything

00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:33.320
around me I couldn't see the trees

00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:36.720
really at all so that simple looking at

00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:38.880
the trees and the seeing of beauty

00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:40.320
really quite

00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:43.800
you know so immediately seem to release

00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:45.060
it

00:40:45.060 --> 00:40:48.780
quite strongly right yeah so the key

00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:50.700
here is that you knew you were in an

00:40:50.700 --> 00:40:52.920
emotion which has a lot of story

00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:56.160
and you remember our basic arousal

00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:58.560
formula arousal

00:40:58.560 --> 00:41:01.680
through perception so what's happening

00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:03.900
in the world you're not gonna just sit

00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:06.720
here with my Sensations and figure it

00:41:06.720 --> 00:41:08.700
out

00:41:08.700 --> 00:41:11.700
that'll bring up story right so arousal

00:41:11.700 --> 00:41:14.460
what's happening in the world where am I

00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:18.180
what's I can perceive and can I find an

00:41:18.180 --> 00:41:21.619
action that satisfies it

00:41:24.180 --> 00:41:26.520
and so because you went into the world

00:41:26.520 --> 00:41:29.400
that create the story went down and then

00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.980
the arouse in the whole thing starts to

00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:35.420
be more coherent

00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:42.480
and if you go back to that

00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.000
Gap Matrix that's why the middle one is

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:47.820
and my clarity of perception

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:51.119
right is a very important part of being

00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:55.640
in a grounded dispositional state

00:41:59.700 --> 00:42:02.640
if you if you aroused you open your eyes

00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:05.040
and are present to what is actually

00:42:05.040 --> 00:42:06.300
happening

00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:10.020
the story tends not to come in

00:42:10.020 --> 00:42:13.400
if you do too much

00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.099
examination of the sensation then a

00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:21.420
story is out to looping to try to help

00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:23.599
you

00:42:24.540 --> 00:42:26.780
foreign

00:42:26.780 --> 00:42:29.579
ly sometimes it's not a story it'll be

00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:32.400
images because the whole system is

00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.619
looking to have a perception

00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:37.980
absent you looking it'll give you some

00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:40.800
virtual perceptions that come in because

00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.440
the the the the body wants to be

00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.660
coherent at an arousal State I need

00:42:45.660 --> 00:42:47.700
action where is where's the perception

00:42:47.700 --> 00:42:50.339
oh she's not opening her eyes I'll give

00:42:50.339 --> 00:42:52.920
her some here here's a track you know

00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.380
coming through a theater in theater near

00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:57.480
you and that's what we're also calling

00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.119
story right that's how that comes but

00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.160
you see the system is calling for

00:43:02.160 --> 00:43:06.300
coherent embodied thing and it's trying

00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.500
to

00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:12.020
is trying to complete the circle

00:43:12.839 --> 00:43:16.819
yeah that's how it works good

00:43:18.240 --> 00:43:21.079
y

00:43:21.839 --> 00:43:24.720
so the story of defeating of the five

00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:26.160
thousand

00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:28.800
in the Nutella one one

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.480
um version of the story that I heard one

00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.599
uh translation was you know it's the end

00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:35.640
of the day everybody's hungry

00:43:35.640 --> 00:43:37.920
Jesus has been speaking on the mount all

00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.619
day or whatever and this disciples are

00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:42.180
like oh my God we can't deal with this

00:43:42.180 --> 00:43:44.220
so basically overwhelm too many people

00:43:44.220 --> 00:43:47.520
we got to send them home and Jesus says

00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:50.099
what do we have

00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:53.940
so that's the perception what do we have

00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:56.220
and so they go and send that question

00:43:56.220 --> 00:43:58.859
out and they come back with about you

00:43:58.859 --> 00:44:03.240
know a couple baskets of paltry stuff

00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:07.319
but the way I hear that is we have what

00:44:07.319 --> 00:44:08.880
we have

00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.099
what do we have in any given situation

00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:14.400
we have what we have somebody's inspired

00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.040
someone could give a or someone's

00:44:17.040 --> 00:44:20.460
angry or doesn't believe or we don't

00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:24.540
have but when we start with what we have

00:44:24.540 --> 00:44:26.880
and then there's a blessing giving

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.339
thanks and a blessing with what we

00:44:29.339 --> 00:44:31.260
actually have then there's enough for

00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:35.660
everybody so for me that that's a um

00:44:37.560 --> 00:44:39.660
okay that's a story and I feel like I

00:44:39.660 --> 00:44:42.800
lost you Bonnie because no no no no no

00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:47.339
I mean it's you're using a story to

00:44:47.339 --> 00:44:50.099
that's okay no I love it because this is

00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:53.280
what it says it says here in the Gap

00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.220
thing it says uh

00:44:56.220 --> 00:44:57.300
um

00:44:57.300 --> 00:44:59.339
uh

00:44:59.339 --> 00:45:01.760
where does it say that uh

00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.879
[Music]

00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:14.400
something about uh

00:45:14.640 --> 00:45:17.520
yeah so that's that's a parable right

00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:19.500
the story of the five thousands are

00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:22.800
Parable and you're saying the lesson is

00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.380
use your perception see what is actually

00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:26.520
there

00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:29.280
and then in the Gap things is like can I

00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.640
see in what is actually here

00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:36.480
the the ability to maneuver affordances

00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:40.680
to work with so can I not just you know

00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:44.460
so overlay my Panic to we don't have

00:45:44.460 --> 00:45:46.560
enough oh my God this is terrible but

00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:48.359
can we actually be stay open and look

00:45:48.359 --> 00:45:50.160
and feel and see to what's actually

00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:52.440
there and what's what's possible right

00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.359
and as you were saying like in the

00:45:54.359 --> 00:45:56.819
parable the disciples are like they're

00:45:56.819 --> 00:45:58.560
in the store like oh my God we don't

00:45:58.560 --> 00:46:00.119
have enough like how could they're

00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:02.339
overwhelmed basically

00:46:02.339 --> 00:46:04.560
and and

00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:08.040
um Jesus is rooted into well let's see

00:46:08.040 --> 00:46:10.500
what we have what can we do right like

00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:15.420
is it the situation is always workable

00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:16.880
yeah

00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.619
it's a parable you're using to explain

00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:23.180
what we're talking about beautiful

00:46:56.220 --> 00:46:59.220
foreign

00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:17.890
[Music]

00:47:23.359 --> 00:47:25.760
foreign

00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:28.619
beautifully laid out in your article and

00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:30.180
everything we've been talking about has

00:47:30.180 --> 00:47:31.920
been helping

00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:34.200
but at the very end you were saying

00:47:34.200 --> 00:47:37.260
we'll go on just looking into the next

00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:39.660
week or next two weeks whenever you

00:47:39.660 --> 00:47:43.079
present the next study material is that

00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.540
going yeah and to me I got the clue is

00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:47.579
we're going to move into perception and

00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:48.480
memory

00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.640
and well perception and memory be

00:47:50.640 --> 00:47:53.040
directed back into what you've been

00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:56.099
presenting this week

00:47:56.099 --> 00:47:59.280
yeah so Claudia's already

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.960
figured out

00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.240
why are we moving to perception next

00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:05.099
probably

00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:06.720
um we're going to move into perception

00:48:06.720 --> 00:48:09.060
next that'll be for February and memory

00:48:09.060 --> 00:48:11.280
in March now I have to tell you that

00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:13.200
these are the these are the three big

00:48:13.200 --> 00:48:16.200
modules

00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:19.140
yeah the the foundational of all the

00:48:19.140 --> 00:48:21.540
foundations and then when we get into

00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:23.940
thoughts and abstractions and stuff

00:48:23.940 --> 00:48:28.099
we'll we'll have to keep

00:48:28.099 --> 00:48:31.380
looping back into the first three that

00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.020
we had because thoughts of virtual

00:48:34.020 --> 00:48:36.480
perceptions and so we have to know what

00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:39.180
perception is and then or like we have

00:48:39.180 --> 00:48:43.500
virtual uh we can have a virtual affects

00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:46.680
and all this stuff so so they so we'll

00:48:46.680 --> 00:48:50.839
be doing perception next month

00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:55.319
and we'll be noticing the relationship

00:48:55.319 --> 00:48:59.119
between perception and affect slightly

00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:04.020
uh or perception and dispositional state

00:49:04.020 --> 00:49:06.119
um and then memory is going to be a big

00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.420
one memory is difficult and so we'll

00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:11.339
always have to keep

00:49:11.339 --> 00:49:12.900
thank you

00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:15.420
yeah looping back in

00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:17.819
but those are the three big ones

00:49:17.819 --> 00:49:19.880
um

00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:23.579
I don't know if I answered your question

00:49:23.579 --> 00:49:25.200
but

00:49:25.200 --> 00:49:28.020
yeah though that was good just a little

00:49:28.020 --> 00:49:32.460
clue on where we're going yeah

00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:33.900
I mean people have been really good

00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:35.760
because like

00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:37.500
we brought up the question of thought we

00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:39.000
brought up the question of perception

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:43.380
but we've been good at at making sure we

00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:47.160
understand the first three terms because

00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:49.800
the thing can get really

00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.140
calm complex

00:49:52.140 --> 00:49:54.300
Rush

00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:55.800
I just wanted to go back to something

00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.900
that you said earlier Bonnie a few

00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.720
moments ago that you said

00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:04.619
there's arousal through perception and

00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:07.560
then there's a a need to have action to

00:50:07.560 --> 00:50:09.480
satisfy

00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:13.020
that and there's not then there's a

00:50:13.020 --> 00:50:16.099
creation of a story

00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:17.760
I've done it's just been like really

00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.740
thinking about that

00:50:19.740 --> 00:50:24.780
and I because I then start going to um

00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:28.140
shared stories or communal stories or

00:50:28.140 --> 00:50:30.900
stories that allow us to organize

00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:32.339
culture

00:50:32.339 --> 00:50:35.520
or communities or societies

00:50:35.520 --> 00:50:40.859
and I wonder if if we

00:50:40.859 --> 00:50:42.920
have

00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:47.480
created stories in order to limit

00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:50.400
actions so

00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:53.460
if we can feel safe we can create

00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:57.240
predictability in the midst of chaos and

00:50:57.240 --> 00:50:59.040
complexity

00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:01.920
and if there's now a Tipping Point where

00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.680
none of that seems to work anymore and I

00:51:04.680 --> 00:51:06.720
may be going too beyond the boundary but

00:51:06.720 --> 00:51:11.240
no but you see just watch Ria this

00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.420
is affirmation through working with Rhea

00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:21.839
it's but that's exactly true that's

00:51:21.839 --> 00:51:24.480
exactly the problem this is why the

00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.880
malware goes very deep

00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.460
because where we've found Refuge or

00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:31.800
belief and hope is actually becoming

00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:34.760
part of the problem

00:51:35.220 --> 00:51:39.780
so this is a very big Insight it's a

00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:43.319
very big Insight it's very hard once you

00:51:43.319 --> 00:51:44.520
see it

00:51:44.520 --> 00:51:49.760
then a lot of the opportunities come

00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:54.780
and and I'll just leave it at that

00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:57.059
because there's a lot you know we can

00:51:57.059 --> 00:52:01.319
talk but this is a big big Insight that

00:52:01.319 --> 00:52:04.859
very few people get to by themselves

00:52:04.859 --> 00:52:07.440
this might be the first time I mean we

00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.059
already knew that by the time I met her

00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:10.140
so

00:52:10.140 --> 00:52:10.920
um

00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:13.559
it's a very big Insight this is why I

00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.200
say I try to say a lot of times reflect

00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:18.900
back to you the malware goes very deep

00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:20.460
and

00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:21.839
um

00:52:21.839 --> 00:52:25.140
something has to be recreated now we're

00:52:25.140 --> 00:52:27.480
going to get into this when we go into

00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:29.940
the last part of the course the Le when

00:52:29.940 --> 00:52:32.819
we start to the origins we're going to

00:52:32.819 --> 00:52:34.500
look at origins of culture and then move

00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:37.859
from ritual to oral cultures to

00:52:37.859 --> 00:52:39.780
narrative cultures

00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:42.660
to textual cultures

00:52:42.660 --> 00:52:46.380
and that's also what your realizing in

00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:50.339
real time that there's there's been this

00:52:50.339 --> 00:52:52.980
thing that's happened to us as a species

00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:56.760
and maybe it's not working anymore

00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.780
and so you'll see that uh systematically

00:52:59.780 --> 00:53:02.099
in the second half of the course the

00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:04.680
last bottom half this fall when we get

00:53:04.680 --> 00:53:07.260
to the origins of these things in a

00:53:07.260 --> 00:53:09.359
culture or Collective context

00:53:09.359 --> 00:53:12.660
but yeah you got it

00:53:12.660 --> 00:53:15.240
thanks for sharing

00:53:15.240 --> 00:53:17.900
Ray

00:53:19.680 --> 00:53:21.359
so

00:53:21.359 --> 00:53:23.700
something which feels very pragmatic and

00:53:23.700 --> 00:53:26.480
it's a question

00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:32.160
so I realized that I was trying to I'm

00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:33.420
sitting here

00:53:33.420 --> 00:53:36.420
like shaking my head I want to get up

00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:37.920
and cheer

00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:39.599
and I'm wondering

00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:41.880
it's like okay so then the question came

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.339
what am I participating with

00:53:44.339 --> 00:53:46.500
so

00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:50.280
what what came from that question was

00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.559
in practicing these

00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.500
these kind of protocols and and in a

00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.319
sense what feel to be very simple

00:53:57.319 --> 00:54:01.520
exercises it feels like practicing

00:54:01.520 --> 00:54:06.119
allows for a some boundary to become

00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:07.559
more porous

00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:10.140
so then what I'm actually participating

00:54:10.140 --> 00:54:14.160
in feels like I almost it's hard to

00:54:14.160 --> 00:54:16.260
contain almost

00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:19.619
and that's when it's like fxtreme wants

00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:20.940
to bounce me out of this chair because

00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:22.859
it's like there's something

00:54:22.859 --> 00:54:26.700
that is that that's available

00:54:26.700 --> 00:54:28.680
which is

00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:32.400
so much larger than any boundary that I

00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.339
could imagine putting myself in

00:54:35.339 --> 00:54:37.619
so so the question is

00:54:37.619 --> 00:54:39.540
about

00:54:39.540 --> 00:54:41.520
um what am I what am I participating

00:54:41.520 --> 00:54:45.000
with and is through these exercises kind

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.700
of point and pick at those those kind of

00:54:47.700 --> 00:54:51.240
imposed boundaries to allow uh larger

00:54:51.240 --> 00:54:53.839
participation

00:55:06.619 --> 00:55:09.660
yeah that's beautiful and actually this

00:55:09.660 --> 00:55:12.839
is that question what I'm I participate

00:55:12.839 --> 00:55:15.540
bruh what am I participating with

00:55:15.540 --> 00:55:17.760
is the question that we'll ask over and

00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:21.800
over again in the perception module

00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.380
but this insight you're having is what

00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:27.300
it's you're participating in the

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:30.300
unbounded wholeness of everything I mean

00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:34.260
and and that's why it's too much like

00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:37.500
like like it's it's you got to go out

00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:39.180
and do some woodworking or something

00:55:39.180 --> 00:55:42.359
this is too much I mean when you realize

00:55:42.359 --> 00:55:46.040
that all of that is somehow available

00:55:46.040 --> 00:55:49.800
the habitat is the universe

00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.559
it's fractively recreated as your

00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.339
habitats

00:55:56.579 --> 00:56:01.140
it's immediate it's not mediated unless

00:56:01.140 --> 00:56:03.480
we put these things in the in the way

00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:09.000
and so this is a very big Insight uh uh

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:11.099
if you meditate on it it could be too

00:56:11.099 --> 00:56:14.300
much like

00:56:14.900 --> 00:56:16.980
it's too good

00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:21.380
it's too good and it's too profound

00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:26.760
and it feels it feels so simple

00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.420
on this side

00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:33.240
perfect

00:56:36.660 --> 00:56:41.040
beautiful thank you jolt or Katie

00:56:41.040 --> 00:56:43.319
yeah I uh I want to follow up on this

00:56:43.319 --> 00:56:47.900
story conversation because I'm not um

00:56:48.180 --> 00:56:50.040
I I guess I just want you to clarify a

00:56:50.040 --> 00:56:52.079
bit and I know that they're going into

00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.819
this much more later but

00:56:53.819 --> 00:56:55.559
the second my understanding now it seems

00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:57.059
like some clarification is needed but

00:56:57.059 --> 00:56:58.980
what exactly story means I don't think

00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:00.119
of

00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.220
stories and narratives as like harmful

00:57:02.220 --> 00:57:04.980
elements of my experience I think of

00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:06.540
them as like deeply oriented me towards

00:57:06.540 --> 00:57:08.400
meaning and relevance by basically

00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.859
compressing large-scale like temporally

00:57:10.859 --> 00:57:12.540
deep patterns into things that I can

00:57:12.540 --> 00:57:14.339
metabolize really quickly and make

00:57:14.339 --> 00:57:16.140
Salient in my environment immediately

00:57:16.140 --> 00:57:18.000
this seems like extraordinarily

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.500
functional

00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:20.760
um I can think of ways in which they

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.319
become kind of like parasitic processing

00:57:22.319 --> 00:57:23.940
where like a roommate about stories or I

00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:26.040
become like medically captured or

00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:27.960
ideologically captured where I like make

00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:29.819
my story into my identity in a way that

00:57:29.819 --> 00:57:32.460
becomes sticky for me yeah but it

00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.940
doesn't seem like just

00:57:34.940 --> 00:57:36.960
condemning the whole notion is a good

00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.059
idea because like the only reason I know

00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:42.300
that I'm in a room right now or on Zoom

00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:44.099
doing a certain thing or that I live

00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:45.119
where I live is because I have a

00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:47.579
narrative structure that informs me in a

00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:49.619
really concise way about the context in

00:57:49.619 --> 00:57:50.640
which

00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:52.740
my experience is occurring so can you

00:57:52.740 --> 00:57:53.700
maybe just speak a bit more to how

00:57:53.700 --> 00:57:57.480
you're using story yeah okay so first a

00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:02.099
general comment we're not I'm not in the

00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:04.380
news of

00:58:04.380 --> 00:58:06.300
saying anything that's part of the human

00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:10.079
condition is is not useful relevant or

00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:13.920
beautiful so now I happen to know except

00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:15.900
kind of exactly what Raj was talking

00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:17.400
about

00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:19.920
when he was saying story so so it was

00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:22.559
easy for me to slip into that

00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:26.760
um so we every time so all these things

00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:29.940
we talk about we have to reclaim their

00:58:29.940 --> 00:58:33.119
their useful version their appropriate

00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.480
context

00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:39.359
there um and so one of the ways we can

00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:42.839
reclaim that is this notion

00:58:42.839 --> 00:58:46.140
of up hierarchy

00:58:46.140 --> 00:58:49.500
is the story coming through my body into

00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:51.980
my creative imagination and living

00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:55.799
through this present moment

00:58:55.799 --> 00:58:58.559
and aligned with that or is the story

00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:01.079
just this thing that's been conditioned

00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:04.079
that overlays my emotions as soon as

00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:05.579
they try to come up and tell me

00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:08.880
something so we're trying to live as a

00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.720
sense making up hierarchy

00:59:12.720 --> 00:59:14.700
which is like your narrative

00:59:14.700 --> 00:59:16.559
reconstruction of self it could be

00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:18.960
beautiful I mean art is like that we end

00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:21.059
story everything

00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:25.020
but does it come up from

00:59:25.020 --> 00:59:28.260
the voluminous space of my embedded

00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:29.460
nature

00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:32.640
or does it come down as instructions

00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:35.900
that that

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.819
the container when it comes down is too

00:59:38.819 --> 00:59:42.420
small to hold who I am because as Ray

00:59:42.420 --> 00:59:45.119
said all this Universal energy is coming

00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:47.280
out

00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.880
the story like you know I'm a mother I

00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.400
have my wife all these things they're

00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.760
too small or he's after me or I'm you

00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:01.079
know they're too small to hold

01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:04.260
the volume of a human being

01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:06.420
but given that we have all this volume

01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:10.020
it wants to also act and storing is a

01:00:10.020 --> 01:00:12.839
kind of action taking if it's beautiful

01:00:12.839 --> 01:00:15.299
in service to something so

01:00:15.299 --> 01:00:18.000
so I hope I gave you confidence that

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.940
that that there's that I'm not trying to

01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:23.880
chop off who we are and say that part of

01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:27.059
us is not beautiful it's just what's the

01:00:27.059 --> 01:00:30.059
context in which it is beautiful

01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:32.280
no totally that sounds very legit thank

01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:35.059
you yeah yeah

01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:44.460
like that word claustrophobia in the Gap

01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:48.059
do you feel claustrophobic that's a very

01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:52.079
key marker if if you feel claustrophobic

01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:54.540
then then something

01:00:54.540 --> 01:00:58.380
is misaligned

01:00:58.380 --> 01:01:00.900
and the way you said it

01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:04.020
um is just the opposite didn't you know

01:01:04.020 --> 01:01:06.900
you weren't feeling claustrophobic when

01:01:06.900 --> 01:01:10.400
you were saying it and yeah

01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.440
and I think you know these reciprocal

01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:16.260
closing reciprocal opening

01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:18.480
um there's a story create reciprocal

01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:21.900
opening or uh near or narrowing those

01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:23.760
are other other terms that I think

01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:26.599
you're familiar with

01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.299
now having said that you have to be very

01:01:30.299 --> 01:01:33.299
careful when the stories come

01:01:33.299 --> 01:01:35.540
foreign

01:01:38.059 --> 01:01:41.420
those kinds

01:01:58.220 --> 01:02:01.319
can you hear that it sounds like she's

01:02:01.319 --> 01:02:05.040
dying right and she does this little I'm

01:02:05.040 --> 01:02:08.359
so pathetic looking

01:02:10.020 --> 01:02:14.720
uh I just I would like to name something

01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:19.940
um

01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:24.599
I'm feeling really inspired Bonnie

01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:27.440
sitting here

01:02:29.940 --> 01:02:36.559
my memory is that you shared a gem that

01:02:38.040 --> 01:02:41.160
the highest gift we can give is to shift

01:02:41.160 --> 01:02:43.260
our posture

01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:47.839
into an expanded mode

01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:54.799
and in another session you talked about

01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:59.819
the potential to master

01:02:59.819 --> 01:03:03.380
the storytelling

01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:09.619
that's inspiring for me

01:03:09.900 --> 01:03:13.460
out of this module

01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:17.660
just simply be able to shift our posture

01:03:17.660 --> 01:03:23.780
and learn to master the story as a gift

01:05:00.619 --> 01:05:03.299
Katie did you're muted

01:05:03.299 --> 01:05:06.380
did you want to say something oh no okay

01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:10.220
that's not a problem

01:05:27.660 --> 01:05:29.579
Sandra I didn't know you were there but

01:05:29.579 --> 01:05:31.559
I saw the transcript now I see you're

01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:33.299
there

01:05:33.299 --> 01:05:36.380
she's hiding

01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.500
can't turn my video on right now and I

01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:45.240
don't know that someone else turned the

01:05:45.240 --> 01:05:47.660
script the transcript on

01:05:47.660 --> 01:05:50.520
how about that okay

01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:53.540
I'm not the call for today

01:05:53.540 --> 01:05:56.579
[Music]

01:05:58.079 --> 01:06:00.420
nice to hear your voice

01:06:00.420 --> 01:06:03.299
it's great to tune in to this Bonnie

01:06:03.299 --> 01:06:04.859
it's such a

01:06:04.859 --> 01:06:07.619
I've noticed that

01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:09.619
um

01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:12.119
I'm finding myself

01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:13.920
going from

01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:16.440
the the

01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:20.400
story in my head back to where did

01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:24.500
where's the origin in my body

01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:30.480
and how would this possibly arise

01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.680
um it's very mysterious

01:06:34.680 --> 01:06:38.640
and kind of entertaining

01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:07.319
and to what Ray said it's it's almost

01:07:07.319 --> 01:07:10.440
like what was I participating with just

01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:11.839
before

01:07:11.839 --> 01:07:18.000
this crazy repetitive blah blah blah

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:19.680
came into my

01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:23.579
my experience or my my mind or my inner

01:07:23.579 --> 01:07:25.200
dialogue I don't even know what to call

01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:27.380
it

01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:52.500
and also with

01:07:52.500 --> 01:07:55.200
um noticing this

01:07:55.200 --> 01:07:58.319
energy signature that you might be

01:07:58.319 --> 01:08:00.839
experiencing that Ray talked about

01:08:00.839 --> 01:08:02.180
like

01:08:02.180 --> 01:08:05.760
and this is how you get to an Ophelia

01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.700
question about well where is like

01:08:08.700 --> 01:08:11.240
like

01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.259
here's a story we have an energy crisis

01:08:16.259 --> 01:08:19.620
there's so much potential energy in the

01:08:19.620 --> 01:08:21.299
human system

01:08:21.299 --> 01:08:24.239
it's just it's just

01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:26.040
it

01:08:26.040 --> 01:08:30.080
it's and it's all energy for free

01:08:32.160 --> 01:08:34.980
and what do we do we attack we down

01:08:34.980 --> 01:08:37.620
regulate it we canalize emotions we

01:08:37.620 --> 01:08:40.319
attach that energy to a wheel that runs

01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:44.179
capitalism and destroys the Earth

01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.719
because there's so much energy in the

01:08:48.719 --> 01:08:50.460
human system that's what you can do with

01:08:50.460 --> 01:08:52.580
it

01:08:53.460 --> 01:08:55.679
so this question what am I participating

01:08:55.679 --> 01:08:57.719
with I have this

01:08:57.719 --> 01:09:01.140
all this energy and it's for free

01:09:01.140 --> 01:09:04.020
there's too much energy like babies and

01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:06.000
just even like when they're colicking

01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:07.980
they have energy for I mean it's just

01:09:07.980 --> 01:09:09.420
like

01:09:09.420 --> 01:09:11.279
it's like

01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:14.120
we're like plants

01:09:14.120 --> 01:09:16.560
photosynthesizing energy like this is

01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:20.040
why I like the this is there's so much

01:09:20.040 --> 01:09:22.620
potential in the human system oh we have

01:09:22.620 --> 01:09:26.540
an energy crisis oh

01:09:26.759 --> 01:09:27.960
um

01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:30.719
foreign

01:09:30.719 --> 01:09:34.560
the only thing the energy crisis done

01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:37.620
is increase the amount of GDP that goes

01:09:37.620 --> 01:09:38.699
into

01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:42.980
using more energy to find more energy

01:09:45.900 --> 01:09:49.640
that's not a helpful story

01:09:57.360 --> 01:09:59.760
it's why your government's afraid of you

01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:02.460
because there's so much energy in the

01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:04.199
system

01:10:04.199 --> 01:10:07.199
foreign

01:10:12.739 --> 01:10:15.960
literally like this is where it can go

01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:19.520
right Ray be careful

01:10:22.450 --> 01:10:25.529
[Music]

01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:41.760
foreign

01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:11.480
okay my friends I think that's it

01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:14.280
exceptional conversation

01:11:14.280 --> 01:11:17.280
convocation

01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:20.219
if you are for the opportunity to spend

01:11:20.219 --> 01:11:22.080
the morning with you or the afternoon or

01:11:22.080 --> 01:11:23.520
the evening

01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:24.960
for the time

01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:26.520
and

01:11:26.520 --> 01:11:29.480
um yeah

01:11:29.850 --> 01:11:32.699
[Music]

01:11:32.699 --> 01:11:34.920
thank you Barney

01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:37.140
thank you everyone yeah thank you

01:11:37.140 --> 01:11:39.860
everybody thank

## Cohort 5

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.280
computer and

00:00:02.280 --> 00:00:04.980
and then where do you activate the

00:00:04.980 --> 00:00:07.580
transcript

00:00:10.980 --> 00:00:13.559
how did you do how do you do that though

00:00:13.559 --> 00:00:17.699
down at the bottom I'll show CC's yeah

00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:19.260
okay

00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:20.820
awesome

00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:25.380
it's a good trick yeah yeah so now every

00:00:25.380 --> 00:00:28.560
time we do this if you are people who

00:00:28.560 --> 00:00:31.980
are watching the recording can click

00:00:31.980 --> 00:00:35.399
underneath the YouTube viewer

00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:38.460
um where it's got three dots and it'll

00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:40.320
say show transcript and you can see the

00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:42.420
transcript which is cool because then

00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:44.219
you could go looking for like little

00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:47.399
moments or what you're interested in

00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:51.120
um yeah and it's time stamped so it can

00:00:51.120 --> 00:00:54.420
help you uh

00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:56.760
go to the video at the right time

00:00:56.760 --> 00:00:58.680
let's see one two three four five six

00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:01.379
awesome okay so

00:01:01.379 --> 00:01:05.939
um welcome to uh the cohort the fifth

00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:09.659
cohort on affect and emotion and

00:01:09.659 --> 00:01:12.360
disposition I've got to put that in the

00:01:12.360 --> 00:01:15.360
title and

00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:18.060
um some people here have been to one or

00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:19.860
two other cohorts some people are new

00:01:19.860 --> 00:01:22.979
I'm gonna try to make uh the breakout

00:01:22.979 --> 00:01:25.500
groups so that there are the right

00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:28.200
combinations of new people with

00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:30.299
um people who've spent more time with

00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:31.920
the material because it's a small group

00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:35.280
so it's pretty easy to do

00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.640
um we have a new format this year which

00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.360
is at about quarter after I'm going to

00:01:42.360 --> 00:01:45.000
send you into breakout groups to talk

00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.979
about the material

00:01:46.979 --> 00:01:50.180
and specifically we're talking about

00:01:50.180 --> 00:01:53.880
uh three things and maybe two other

00:01:53.880 --> 00:01:55.500
things but

00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:59.720
um affect emotion and disposition

00:01:59.720 --> 00:02:06.780
so the point of this session is to get a

00:02:06.780 --> 00:02:09.420
very grounded sense of what these three

00:02:09.420 --> 00:02:10.739
terms mean

00:02:10.739 --> 00:02:14.580
it's not about doing the philosophy of

00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:17.700
the terms although we're using the terms

00:02:17.700 --> 00:02:20.040
so that we can be

00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:23.160
on the same page when we talk about our

00:02:23.160 --> 00:02:24.360
experience

00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.760
so if you're using the term emotion and

00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:28.080
know somebody else using the term

00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.560
feeling and we don't know what's going

00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.739
on then it's hard for us to get very

00:02:34.739 --> 00:02:37.400
real about our

00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:41.340
experience and to share that with other

00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:44.519
people so it's a little kind of school

00:02:44.519 --> 00:02:46.920
Mar machine because we want to use these

00:02:46.920 --> 00:02:50.700
terms precisely but the real version the

00:02:50.700 --> 00:02:54.480
real point of it is to connect it with

00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:57.720
our actual experience in our body mind

00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:00.360
okay and then some of these questions

00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:02.459
will come up because

00:03:02.459 --> 00:03:04.800
the categories never match everything

00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:09.000
there's much more going on hi pretty in

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.599
in what we can experience and some of

00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.239
those experiences will be fuzzy you know

00:03:15.239 --> 00:03:17.519
they're not in one category or another

00:03:17.519 --> 00:03:20.159
but this can help us have a conversation

00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:23.099
around that

00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:24.720
so

00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:27.120
um the other thing is we are in this

00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.239
course to put the Mind back into the

00:03:30.239 --> 00:03:33.060
body in the body back into nature

00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:37.519
so we're going to use models of affect

00:03:37.519 --> 00:03:42.060
that directly map onto our animal nature

00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:45.840
so from the work of Jake panczep

00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.780
these affects

00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:51.840
that we talk about is you know there's

00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.840
three F extreme seven affects

00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.299
they're discrete so they're

00:03:57.299 --> 00:04:00.299
neurodynamically

00:04:00.620 --> 00:04:04.560
neuroanatomically so basic

00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:06.780
you know whether it's your vagus nerve

00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:08.580
on this side of your vagus nerve on that

00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:10.700
side that's an anatomical difference

00:04:10.700 --> 00:04:13.260
they're neurochemically discreet so

00:04:13.260 --> 00:04:16.019
whether it's oxytocin or adrenaline or

00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:21.079
testosterone or estrogen so they can be

00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.600
identified as discrete dynamic

00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.840
subsystems in your body

00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:30.360
and we can find them in all mammalian

00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.639
bodies let's say we can actually find

00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.220
precursors to them in all animal bodies

00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:38.220
including worms and single cell animals

00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:40.919
so I mean this this work we can trace

00:04:40.919 --> 00:04:44.160
all the way down in the genealogy of the

00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:44.940
human

00:04:44.940 --> 00:04:48.180
so that's why we use this this model and

00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:50.639
these words uh because that's that's

00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:52.620
what we're trying to do we're trying to

00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:53.340
connect

00:04:53.340 --> 00:04:56.340
lived experience of the human way down

00:04:56.340 --> 00:05:00.180
into the genealogy of the Earth really

00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:03.000
um so we can find our home you know for

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.580
the first time like and not be so

00:05:05.580 --> 00:05:06.900
disconnected

00:05:06.900 --> 00:05:09.060
so

00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:10.440
um

00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:13.259
so what do we mean by affect then it's a

00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:16.259
certain configuration of the body so you

00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:19.740
can feel your body move like oh the the

00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.860
child falls down for the first time

00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:25.979
and cuts its knee and it feels

00:05:25.979 --> 00:05:28.080
something's different in its body it

00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:30.600
feels like it's internal experience has

00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.180
changed right maybe the adrenaline went

00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:36.419
up uh the heart rate went up all this

00:05:36.419 --> 00:05:39.060
stuff is happening so this is an

00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:43.800
affective change in the individual

00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:47.400
now what does the child do

00:05:47.400 --> 00:05:50.520
they turn to their mother or primary

00:05:50.520 --> 00:05:54.979
caregiver and say what does this mean

00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:59.720
and in that era interaction

00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:03.720
how the child interprets that change in

00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.600
their body will be set

00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.000
so if the mother's really really nervous

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.500
and it's like oh my god what happened

00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:12.720
you know she's like a lot of sorts or

00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:17.479
she herself is in a panic mode then the

00:06:17.479 --> 00:06:20.400
that change in that

00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:26.660
person's body will tend to go into panic

00:06:27.780 --> 00:06:31.440
but if the mother says oh let's see what

00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:33.539
happened

00:06:33.539 --> 00:06:36.240
and they thought as good Mothers do my

00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.520
mother used to do this and and so the

00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:40.740
child then says okay when I feel like

00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:44.280
this I use my eyes and my ears and I go

00:06:44.280 --> 00:06:47.699
and look and see what happens I'm not

00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:50.520
stuck in an internal Loop and then the

00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:53.220
mother says oh we can we can we can help

00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:55.919
that poor knee you know like and turns

00:06:55.919 --> 00:06:58.020
it into care and then the child likes

00:06:58.020 --> 00:06:59.819
putting the Band-Aids and it gets this

00:06:59.819 --> 00:07:02.280
feeling that it's caring for like

00:07:02.280 --> 00:07:04.919
like a little creature or something and

00:07:04.919 --> 00:07:07.620
so this is how we can work with the

00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:10.199
affects we want to move them from their

00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.720
contracted State and in that course

00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.840
content we have the contracted states of

00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:20.280
the affect streams into more states of

00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:24.440
well-being and generativity

00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:29.400
so that's kind of how the affects work

00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:31.380
uh you'll talk about them a little more

00:07:31.380 --> 00:07:32.400
and you're going to be coupled with

00:07:32.400 --> 00:07:33.840
people who've been here for a couple of

00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:36.720
times so uh

00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.720
so you can ask some questions of some

00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:41.639
stuff questions that will have already

00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.199
been answered so now how does an affect

00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:49.020
become an emotion

00:07:49.020 --> 00:07:52.380
and Claudia had a great share I think

00:07:52.380 --> 00:07:55.680
last time about this like affects become

00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.919
emotions when a story starts you start

00:07:58.919 --> 00:08:00.539
spinning a story

00:08:00.539 --> 00:08:03.539
right so I gave the example of I was

00:08:03.539 --> 00:08:07.440
invited to a event

00:08:07.440 --> 00:08:09.060
this summer

00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.080
this you know I I rarely have uh get

00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:15.599
overwhelmed but it was a bunch of Galaxy

00:08:15.599 --> 00:08:18.360
brains and I immediately said yes and

00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:19.680
then I woke up in the middle of the

00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.500
night and I thought oh I'm not I'm just

00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:24.360
going to be like they're going to be I'm

00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.460
going to be indoctrinated into their

00:08:26.460 --> 00:08:29.039
Cult of Galaxy brightness and then I

00:08:29.039 --> 00:08:30.660
thought well that's stupid that's just a

00:08:30.660 --> 00:08:32.880
story and then I thought I'm gonna go in

00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:35.219
there and I'm gonna tell them my part

00:08:35.219 --> 00:08:37.979
and that was a story too like like they

00:08:37.979 --> 00:08:40.560
just kept coming like because I was

00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:43.140
excited I mean I was you know kind of

00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:45.000
disregulated because it's a big thing

00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.899
and that's okay but the stories so what

00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:51.120
is what is the appropriate relationship

00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.680
to them well the stories are going to

00:08:52.680 --> 00:08:54.959
come and I laugh at them because this is

00:08:54.959 --> 00:08:58.380
the human condition but also it's like

00:08:58.380 --> 00:09:00.839
okay well let's see I'll go in their

00:09:00.839 --> 00:09:03.300
first day and let's see you know I mean

00:09:03.300 --> 00:09:06.180
I'm not walking into a lion's den I'm

00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:08.519
not walking into Chernobyl they're just

00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.459
people right and so I don't have the

00:09:11.459 --> 00:09:14.279
answers but I ca I have not yet even

00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:17.339
experienced the first move yet you know

00:09:17.339 --> 00:09:19.500
so now I'm just okay well I'll wait

00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:21.540
we'll see what the first move is and

00:09:21.540 --> 00:09:23.580
then what's the second one what's the

00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:26.580
third move and into organically take on

00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:29.519
the thing it does so affects become a

00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:33.300
motion when they get a uh story attached

00:09:33.300 --> 00:09:34.800
to them

00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:37.320
now it doesn't have to be a story like I

00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:40.740
described it can be an image like like

00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:43.019
uh

00:09:43.019 --> 00:09:43.740
um

00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:45.560
you get the

00:09:45.560 --> 00:09:50.519
looming image of something and then a

00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:52.680
lot of people don't don't think so much

00:09:52.680 --> 00:09:55.320
in terms of dialogue they start to have

00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:57.660
images of then this is going to happen

00:09:57.660 --> 00:09:59.700
and then my car is gonna you know it's

00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:02.339
more like images come in your head

00:10:02.339 --> 00:10:06.480
those are not helpful either

00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.180
um okay now

00:10:09.180 --> 00:10:11.100
so

00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:14.580
um noticing you can get very subtle

00:10:14.580 --> 00:10:17.580
and I think I think Claudius I know she

00:10:17.580 --> 00:10:18.839
was working at the subtle level because

00:10:18.839 --> 00:10:21.500
she she discovered something but

00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:25.019
noticing how

00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:27.360
affects move into emotion and they have

00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:30.899
a story is extremely

00:10:30.899 --> 00:10:33.560
helpful

00:10:35.339 --> 00:10:38.339
okay and the first now the final thing

00:10:38.339 --> 00:10:39.839
is even more subtle that's your

00:10:39.839 --> 00:10:42.959
dispositional state that's before you

00:10:42.959 --> 00:10:45.779
have what's called canalized into an

00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:49.260
actual affect I'm not scared I'm not in

00:10:49.260 --> 00:10:51.899
a caring mood I'm just kind of me it's

00:10:51.899 --> 00:10:55.140
kind of a mood the sense of who I am

00:10:55.140 --> 00:10:57.060
right now

00:10:57.060 --> 00:11:02.279
um it may be and a sense of my Baseline

00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.100
do I know my Baseline

00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:08.220
and we offered a chart of what is a good

00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:10.860
Baseline and a good Baseline is not a

00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:13.380
static thing it's it's the ability to be

00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:16.320
surprised that I I'm going to be moved

00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:17.279
and

00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.380
there's different things happening in my

00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:21.680
body

00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:25.620
now an advanced question is what

00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:27.480
canalizes

00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:32.540
a dispositions will stay into an affect

00:11:32.579 --> 00:11:36.300
um and some of you did this last time

00:11:36.300 --> 00:11:37.620
where you're like well what's my

00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:39.540
disposition right now and you see it

00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:42.600
move into an affect we might already be

00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:44.579
an affect

00:11:44.579 --> 00:11:46.079
um

00:11:46.079 --> 00:11:48.540
chances are in a situation like this

00:11:48.540 --> 00:11:50.399
it's a story

00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:53.519
because chances are

00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.560
you're not gonna have a ball come

00:11:55.560 --> 00:11:57.600
through your window and you have to

00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.380
react chances are most of the reactivity

00:12:01.380 --> 00:12:04.040
in our lives as humans

00:12:04.040 --> 00:12:07.320
are stories

00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.480
right so you might get in a breakout

00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.220
group and you find you're nervous well

00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:12.720
why are you nervous nobody's gonna

00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:14.519
invite hair head out there's head off

00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.880
there's no actual behavioral reason

00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:20.700
to be nervous it's because you're you're

00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:23.279
starting to run stories how can I be

00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:26.279
afraid of Sandra she's she's

00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.980
a pixel on a screen well I'm afraid of

00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:31.380
her because my interaction I'm

00:12:31.380 --> 00:12:34.560
projecting a story in it

00:12:34.560 --> 00:12:38.940
so uh so chances are and most of the

00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:41.820
your experience your affects are being

00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:44.779
triggered by story

00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.139
unless you fall down or if you like have

00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:51.480
to really respond in your car like you

00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:52.740
got really like

00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:55.500
perceptively aware these are these are

00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:57.680
animal kind of

00:12:57.680 --> 00:13:00.000
interactions with the animal environment

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.740
but in general we're triggered by

00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:07.519
stories so the idea in modern life is to

00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.760
be more almost always in an open

00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:13.560
dispositional state

00:13:13.560 --> 00:13:16.079
this is not true if you're in a bunker

00:13:16.079 --> 00:13:18.600
in Ukraine you should probably be on

00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.339
high alert right that's different I'm

00:13:20.339 --> 00:13:21.899
not saying that

00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.480
but what if you do if you read a story

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.240
about someone in a bunker in Ukraine

00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:30.060
what should happen to your body that's

00:13:30.060 --> 00:13:32.519
an interesting question

00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:38.120
okay so let's see let me write this down

00:13:42.800 --> 00:13:46.639
I'm gonna have Jean Sandra and Michelle

00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.940
Claudia Torsten and radeep

00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:53.660
and let me do this

00:13:53.660 --> 00:13:56.220
assign manually

00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:59.060
into two breakout rooms

00:13:59.060 --> 00:14:03.500
let's see a sign

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.639
Jean

00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.680
Sandra and Michelle

00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.040
and

00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:14.160
Claudia pradeep and Torsten okay you

00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:17.519
have 15 uh 45 minutes please enjoy each

00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:19.980
other's company and have a generative

00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:21.779
conversation

00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:25.459
let me give it to this

00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:38.279
and I I wasn't I wasn't sure what was

00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:41.459
going to be today so and then I found

00:14:41.459 --> 00:14:44.399
like the the the zap stick message and

00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.500
then was too late and yeah and it was

00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:49.139
perfect but I could like uh join now

00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:52.680
yeah yeah I was late with the with the

00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:55.639
announcement this morning

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.660
I love this time site though I have to

00:14:57.660 --> 00:14:58.860
say I'm a very

00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:03.139
very uh what happened to other issues

00:15:07.680 --> 00:15:09.720
this is Bonnie and her morning

00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.720
caffeinated

00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:19.440
I've been writing like crazy and reading

00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.380
like crazy so

00:15:21.380 --> 00:15:25.920
which cares huh it's obvious

00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:28.560
foreign okay my friends what do we got

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:33.260
what um questions are still need to be

00:15:33.260 --> 00:15:36.000
fine-tuned what experience did you have

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.279
what Insight

00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:39.180
um

00:15:39.180 --> 00:15:41.519
what shares

00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.160
um how'd you enjoy your friends and

00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:48.560
everything anything we got a whole hour

00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:18.260
that was fun

00:16:18.260 --> 00:16:22.699
it was just really fun

00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:28.639
I have to say that um

00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:32.699
I was really appreciative of Sandra's

00:16:32.699 --> 00:16:35.100
ability to

00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:38.100
connect the words with the experience

00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:42.600
and how good of a student I assume or I

00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.639
project or I think

00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:46.440
Sandra is

00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.180
um

00:16:48.180 --> 00:16:50.399
because you know like until like I was

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.440
saying until you understand the ontology

00:16:55.160 --> 00:16:57.660
epistemology is just gonna go like this

00:16:57.660 --> 00:16:59.399
because you're not going to get any of

00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.980
the signifiers that point to whatever

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:05.459
and and so that step I used to sort of

00:17:05.459 --> 00:17:07.500
yeah yeah yeah next you know I know that

00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:09.780
I know another not to realize that it

00:17:09.780 --> 00:17:12.360
there's no way you can know

00:17:12.360 --> 00:17:15.540
what's behind the word that the person

00:17:15.540 --> 00:17:18.000
uses so that's a very important first

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.799
step to understand like what the heck

00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:21.360
does that word mean for that person

00:17:21.360 --> 00:17:24.360
that's saying it and to me it's such a

00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:26.640
revelation and so thank you Sandra for

00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.260
being so

00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:31.520
clear in

00:17:31.520 --> 00:17:34.559
connecting these words and these

00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.200
experiences that we were

00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.520
responding to

00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.600
and you can see how

00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.780
slow and dogged as it is how necessary

00:17:54.780 --> 00:17:57.299
it is because people come from like all

00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:59.220
over the place and they get into these

00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:02.880
conversations and not only the terms are

00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.940
sliding so we know about language

00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:08.400
but everything's missing the mark and

00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.480
and and people are trying so hard and

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.919
um

00:18:13.919 --> 00:18:15.900
yeah

00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.480
if you want to be if you want to work at

00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.460
this level of precision you know

00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.520
language can slide at work and you go to

00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:25.140
your friends you're like ah you know and

00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.000
all this stuff is happening and there's

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.100
no Precision but it works because you're

00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:31.559
making friends and this and that but if

00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.539
you want to so that's the good thing

00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:35.160
about language there's something about

00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.860
it that is co-extensive just with

00:18:37.860 --> 00:18:40.740
getting to know each other and if you

00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.200
took a transcript it would be like you

00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:44.760
didn't really talk about anything you

00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:46.380
know you talked about the weather and

00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.059
blah blah blah and

00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.880
so that's one thing that's one use of

00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.760
language it's a very important use of

00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:56.160
language we can't be like freaking out

00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.340
precise all the time like that

00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:01.919
um but if you if you

00:19:01.919 --> 00:19:03.780
are interested in different kind of

00:19:03.780 --> 00:19:06.720
inquiry there's some

00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.240
work to be done

00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:12.299
at this level so and yeah Sandra's a

00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:14.840
really good student

00:19:19.220 --> 00:19:23.059
I said to Jean it is a puzzle

00:19:23.059 --> 00:19:28.320
and I will put it together somehow

00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:31.500
and that's really the that's the joy of

00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:34.200
being here Bonnie that there's

00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.200
um

00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:41.580
it's it's in the application or it's in

00:19:41.580 --> 00:19:43.320
the

00:19:43.320 --> 00:19:45.299
um

00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:48.120
experimentation

00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.620
with

00:19:49.620 --> 00:19:54.120
all of these terms and how

00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:56.880
it's really in the body I mean that's

00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.600
that's just so clear to me

00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:02.720
um

00:20:03.419 --> 00:20:09.020
and it's very it's very clear to me that

00:20:09.020 --> 00:20:12.660
is in the body

00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:17.340
I can feel that effortful effort and how

00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:21.360
my mouth gets or how am I between my

00:20:21.360 --> 00:20:25.080
shoulder blades contracts and and

00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:27.380
just

00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:30.960
sensing like oh

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.640
what if it wasn't that way

00:20:34.860 --> 00:20:37.080
what

00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:38.900
an incredible

00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:43.520
complex potential is available

00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.720
without that contracted you know that

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.720
familiarity of contraction

00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.960
to work hard and see less you know

00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.960
it's just yeah I'm really appreciating

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.179
this particular

00:21:03.179 --> 00:21:05.580
module

00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:10.200
and seeing the

00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:15.900
the layering of

00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:19.320
movement from dispositional

00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:24.020
into affect into narrative

00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.419
one thing that we were sort of playing

00:21:27.419 --> 00:21:31.140
with was what

00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.559
what determines

00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:39.059
which affect stream is aroused

00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:41.100
like is it

00:21:41.100 --> 00:21:43.860
the

00:21:43.860 --> 00:21:45.840
the early

00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:50.039
theories that we engage in

00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:53.039
when other people react or respond to

00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:54.600
something

00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:56.880
like I fall down I cut my knee my

00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.159
mother's on the Panic stream and doesn't

00:21:59.159 --> 00:22:02.159
know how to move toward care

00:22:02.159 --> 00:22:03.600
and then

00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:08.460
does that you know sort of begin to

00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:11.520
create a certain

00:22:11.520 --> 00:22:14.940
affect preference

00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:17.700
so that was that was a question we were

00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:19.559
we were engaging in and would it be

00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:21.659
different if my father was responding

00:22:21.659 --> 00:22:24.120
and what would I learn

00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:26.760
yeah or like your father gets angry like

00:22:26.760 --> 00:22:29.039
Jesus Christ now we have to go to the

00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.780
hospital you know that kind of thing all

00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:33.419
these things are what you know all

00:22:33.419 --> 00:22:35.640
families do it it doesn't destroy you

00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.559
forever but

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.419
um uh

00:22:39.419 --> 00:22:42.299
I think that there's a

00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:43.200
um

00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:46.320
there's just a genetic and epigenetic

00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:49.140
signature for for a lot of this you know

00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:50.880
like we know testosterone during

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.539
development gives you receptors for more

00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:58.380
along the anger play Mastery

00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:00.539
um which it's important to know actually

00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:05.299
when Jack panzep did his work one of the

00:23:05.299 --> 00:23:07.919
opinions that he made even though he

00:23:07.919 --> 00:23:11.340
wasn't about writing opinions was that

00:23:11.340 --> 00:23:13.200
the play Mastery stream was

00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.799
misunderstood in that young boys are at

00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.799
risk because they cannot are not allowed

00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.980
to enter into Rough House play

00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.580
and so we know that that has to do with

00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:29.940
not only genetics XY chromosomes but

00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:32.580
also if there's testosterone available

00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:34.799
in the mother's body and stuff like that

00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:39.299
or too much testosterone so uh so there

00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:41.820
is a signature because it when you're

00:23:41.820 --> 00:23:45.059
born some receptors might be more you

00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:46.740
might have more receptors for this

00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.659
neurochemical than that neural chemical

00:23:48.659 --> 00:23:51.659
I'm talking like it's linear but I'm

00:23:51.659 --> 00:23:54.539
just saying easy it's more complex than

00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:56.940
this so there is a signature that you

00:23:56.940 --> 00:24:00.780
have and there is also from my own lived

00:24:00.780 --> 00:24:05.120
experience a change over the lifetime

00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:08.700
you may notice I mean there's a change

00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:12.480
like there's an echo of who you were

00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.320
from the beginning but the way it

00:24:16.320 --> 00:24:18.000
manifests in terms of these affect

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.340
streams uh

00:24:20.340 --> 00:24:24.120
can can change over the lifetime like

00:24:24.120 --> 00:24:26.580
you might be very playful and an Angry

00:24:26.580 --> 00:24:28.320
Kid and then you have children and all

00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:30.960
of a sudden the you know in the mother

00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.760
structure for the rest of your life and

00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:34.980
then you start to embody that you know

00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:36.659
so they can change over the lifetime now

00:24:36.659 --> 00:24:38.580
I do want to say something quite

00:24:38.580 --> 00:24:40.620
sophisticated here

00:24:40.620 --> 00:24:43.980
some of you may have heard like at the

00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:46.320
end is Oak gen training you take on one

00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:48.780
of the five Buddha families and you

00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:50.640
become that deities anyone ever heard

00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.780
this kind of nonsense

00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.400
they would those five families happen to

00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.260
track the affect streams so you

00:24:58.260 --> 00:25:01.860
basically recognize which ethics stream

00:25:01.860 --> 00:25:05.460
your power is in so it's basically High

00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.880
Fallout and esoteric

00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.980
27 million years you know 20 years on

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:12.960
the cushion to get to what we're

00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.880
actually trying to do today and that is

00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.320
understood

00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:18.620
the affect students that we're not

00:25:18.620 --> 00:25:21.980
making them like gods and goddesses and

00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.400
theories but uh that's part of what is

00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:28.140
happening there so there's a reality

00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:30.360
there but

00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:35.340
it discounts the body it yeah

00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:36.900
um anyways I just thought I would just

00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.559
throw that in

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.220
we also had an interesting

00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:52.679
um discussion I think you sent us in

00:25:52.679 --> 00:25:54.419
with a question that got us Reeling for

00:25:54.419 --> 00:25:56.220
a little bit I think suddenly me reading

00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.320
a little bit because you asked

00:25:58.320 --> 00:25:59.279
um

00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.320
how does the Ukraine War affect our

00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:03.120
bodies right which is kind of the other

00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:06.120
way to what we what we were trying to do

00:26:06.120 --> 00:26:09.419
now in our breakout at least what I was

00:26:09.419 --> 00:26:10.919
trying to do because we we came in

00:26:10.919 --> 00:26:12.900
realizing that our athletes are affected

00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:16.380
by stories like the Ukraine war can you

00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.539
know affect our stories and

00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:21.059
we then I think started looking at it in

00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:22.799
the other direction

00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.059
um

00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:25.740
um to simplify it the other way around

00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:28.740
you know noticing how very quickly our

00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:30.720
affects can create a story like almost

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.460
immediately

00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:35.580
um or stories can create affects both

00:26:35.580 --> 00:26:39.000
yes this is important so this isn't I

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.460
did throw it in on kind of on purpose

00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:43.679
because that's an important question

00:26:43.679 --> 00:26:44.880
then

00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.500
um so go ahead

00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:48.840
yeah so we then just kind of left that

00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:51.179
one behind you know what is the Ukraine

00:26:51.179 --> 00:26:52.559
what we're doing to our bodies I think

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.380
we left that one and we ended up working

00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:57.659
with this more you know that that up

00:26:57.659 --> 00:27:00.299
that um sense making up hierarchy

00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:01.919
um and we had a little discussion about

00:27:01.919 --> 00:27:04.140
you know can you refresh back to kind of

00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:06.539
zero to kind of start that again and my

00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:08.520
view is we can get pretty close to a

00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:12.059
kind of basic kind of just raw feeling

00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.179
but this was a discussion you know

00:27:15.179 --> 00:27:17.760
um so this isn't it important I'm just

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:19.020
slowing you down because you have like

00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:22.799
you keep throwing these like these gems

00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.279
um so that one of the moves is how does

00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:28.500
the Ukraine Story how should I be in

00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:29.940
relationship to when I read a story

00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:34.020
about Ukraine ah is it of hierarchy is

00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:37.140
it a sense making up hierarchy so that

00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:38.940
means is the story coming down and

00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:41.580
affecting me that's a down hierarchy

00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:43.740
it's a dominator hierarchy and which I

00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.919
have no control or how do I take this it

00:27:46.919 --> 00:27:48.779
is information and run it through the

00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:51.840
sense making up hierarchy so we this was

00:27:51.840 --> 00:27:54.659
the Prelude we had some of these fancy

00:27:54.659 --> 00:27:56.880
terms that we were going to use to help

00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.820
us now this question is unanswered but

00:27:59.820 --> 00:28:03.179
that is a significant tool

00:28:03.179 --> 00:28:07.440
so it's metaphor for

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.679
ah let me investigate how can I put this

00:28:10.679 --> 00:28:13.020
into a sense making up hierarchy and

00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:15.360
we'll build on that but that's beautiful

00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:18.059
that that came into yeah

00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:20.460
it's still unanswered we won't we're not

00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:23.779
going to spend our time answering it but

00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:27.539
yeah that's really helpful thank you um

00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:30.419
because we didn't we didn't we we moved

00:28:30.419 --> 00:28:33.600
then to the the kind of up hierarchy

00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:35.340
um without yeah dropping the question

00:28:35.340 --> 00:28:37.140
and kind of starting from fresh but I

00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:39.000
love what you just said

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.460
um and we ended up trusting the body a

00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:42.960
little bit didn't we

00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:45.860
um pretty

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.960
yes we did

00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.179
uh we we sort of recognized the futility

00:28:51.179 --> 00:28:52.159
of

00:28:52.159 --> 00:28:53.760
metacognition

00:28:53.760 --> 00:28:56.460
in the experience of life

00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:59.520
to say very simply which is quite funny

00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:01.080
because all three of us seem to be

00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:04.940
having some skills on method cognition

00:29:06.260 --> 00:29:09.539
So eventually I think I think the first

00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:13.500
30 minutes of our conversation

00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:16.679
had a much higher charge and I think the

00:29:16.679 --> 00:29:19.020
last 10 minutes if you were in them you

00:29:19.020 --> 00:29:21.539
would feel like we were in a different

00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:25.200
pace and Tempo and

00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.760
ease

00:29:26.760 --> 00:29:28.679
there was a lot more

00:29:28.679 --> 00:29:31.380
speaking from and listening from the

00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:34.320
body and a lot more silence

00:29:34.320 --> 00:29:37.980
and almost like a

00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:40.380
not trying to understand the model

00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.140
almost because initially we were trying

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:45.720
to grasp the model from the head

00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:47.940
and I think at some point there was a

00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.440
sense of

00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.140
maybe we can't get to the primordial

00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:54.600
initial State and some people thought we

00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:57.899
could or but we just said

00:29:57.899 --> 00:30:00.120
irrespective of all of that maybe we

00:30:00.120 --> 00:30:01.679
there were two responses that came out

00:30:01.679 --> 00:30:03.179
was like maybe we need to reduce the

00:30:03.179 --> 00:30:05.460
stimulus which is completely open like

00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:07.020
maybe we can't do anything about a

00:30:07.020 --> 00:30:09.299
particular event in the world so maybe

00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:11.700
we don't need to get aroused by it

00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:15.059
and the second one was that maybe less

00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:17.460
metacognition and if you just live in

00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.940
more in the body and act out the arousal

00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:22.919
that could be a better approach and and

00:30:22.919 --> 00:30:24.720
the third thing which I think for at

00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.159
least for me and Claudia was very

00:30:26.159 --> 00:30:30.140
important from our experience was that

00:30:30.419 --> 00:30:34.140
we felt that we have or at least I speak

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:36.240
for myself we used

00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:39.179
some of the psycho Technologies

00:30:39.179 --> 00:30:41.580
Less skillfully almost like giving us

00:30:41.580 --> 00:30:45.059
what to a child right so trying to hack

00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:48.120
and solve something through

00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:50.039
a practice

00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.220
while and sort of regulating that affect

00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:56.100
while in reality after years of that

00:30:56.100 --> 00:30:58.380
affect not fully going away I realized

00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:00.419
that it was actually some action in the

00:31:00.419 --> 00:31:02.820
real world that eventually released it

00:31:02.820 --> 00:31:05.419
so that was a very big

00:31:05.419 --> 00:31:08.940
Insight or for me at least

00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:11.880
okay so this is a very big insight and

00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.179
the affects are there actions affect is

00:31:15.179 --> 00:31:16.919
arousal state

00:31:16.919 --> 00:31:19.880
ments that satisfy

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.220
and the problem with going on social

00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:25.919
media and taking size it's not an action

00:31:25.919 --> 00:31:28.620
that will satisfy it just it just

00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:34.220
amplifies and it just it just and so

00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:38.159
so that's also key like what is an

00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:41.399
action that will satisfy my arousal it's

00:31:41.399 --> 00:31:44.520
not thinking it's not going on met if

00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:46.679
and that's the power of the affect it

00:31:46.679 --> 00:31:49.020
will stick with you and say that's not

00:31:49.020 --> 00:31:51.600
not an action that satisfies

00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:53.460
you can try to repress it you'll just

00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.380
get anxious it's not an action that

00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:58.260
satisfies and so sometimes it takes a

00:31:58.260 --> 00:32:00.240
long time you know like you said to be

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:03.299
patient be open

00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:07.159
you know that it's still there

00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.539
and we're going to go on to perception

00:32:09.539 --> 00:32:12.120
that's the next step what do I see in

00:32:12.120 --> 00:32:13.440
the world

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.140
that can be an action that satisfies

00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:18.240
that right you can't just Loop between

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.360
your Sensations and your affects and

00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:23.880
your emotions and solve the problem

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:25.919
uh we have to move that's the next

00:32:25.919 --> 00:32:28.140
module move into perceptions and that

00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:31.080
brings you into the world right but the

00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:33.840
key is what exactly what you said an

00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:36.480
affect is an arousal state that is

00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.720
calling for an action to satisfy it

00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:43.020
and in our animal nature that was like

00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:45.000
you know

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.340
the Lions after me I hit him on the head

00:32:47.340 --> 00:32:49.320
I mean this is very

00:32:49.320 --> 00:32:53.460
single Loop but what does the skillful

00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:54.720
ways

00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.299
to work with our animal nature you can't

00:32:57.299 --> 00:33:00.539
bypass it and you can't get away from it

00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:02.580
and everything that's distorted at that

00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:04.740
level will distort everything else at

00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.299
any other level of complexity

00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.520
in the sense making up hierarchy if your

00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:13.440
troops are coming back and lying to you

00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.179
as a general and you're laying out the

00:33:15.179 --> 00:33:16.620
plan it's

00:33:16.620 --> 00:33:19.760
it's just a disaster

00:33:21.140 --> 00:33:24.360
and and just as you as you clarify that

00:33:24.360 --> 00:33:26.399
it almost feels like that's why sutriana

00:33:26.399 --> 00:33:28.679
completely people up after a

00:33:28.679 --> 00:33:30.360
period of time because you're just

00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:33.899
trying to avoid the action and just

00:33:33.899 --> 00:33:36.419
trying to stay in the away mode forever

00:33:36.419 --> 00:33:38.220
and that might work if you don't have

00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:40.919
the capacity time or skill to build

00:33:40.919 --> 00:33:43.740
in the in the action space but I think

00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:45.960
it it cannot ever fully satisfy because

00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:47.519
that affect will keep coming up and

00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.019
you'll just spend all your day trying to

00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:51.659
regulate it through a practice exactly

00:33:51.659 --> 00:33:54.480
now we will come back to you know we're

00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:56.460
gonna get a discount any part of The

00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:58.200
Human Experience

00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.600
and sometimes trying to figure out what

00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:02.340
action I can take

00:34:02.340 --> 00:34:05.039
instead of going around and trying 10

00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.019
million things in the real world I can

00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:08.820
simulate and think well what if I wrote

00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:12.119
a newspaper I could do this and this and

00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:13.800
that and then I feel in my body no

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.500
that's not the right thing to do so we

00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:18.839
can run simulations

00:34:18.839 --> 00:34:22.200
to get us so we can figure out what

00:34:22.200 --> 00:34:25.260
might be a real action I can do

00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:27.659
and the body will tell you if that

00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:30.599
simulation is going to satisfy it this

00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.879
is like something that's

00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:34.619
fantastic

00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:37.440
right I mean think about it

00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.080
that you could run a simulation in such

00:34:40.080 --> 00:34:43.500
a way that your body will tell you

00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:45.720
like if you're if you're clean and you

00:34:45.720 --> 00:34:48.179
don't have thick thoughts like I do this

00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:50.580
all the time like I think this morning I

00:34:50.580 --> 00:34:53.520
was looking at live streaming uh

00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:55.619
software I'm like I should like get up

00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:57.839
every morning and live stream and then

00:34:57.839 --> 00:34:59.760
I'm running this simulation while I'm

00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.080
looking around because looking around

00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:03.599
helps the simulation like really land

00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.220
and I'm like

00:35:05.220 --> 00:35:07.740
 I don't have any bandwidth for

00:35:07.740 --> 00:35:11.099
live streaming you know so but it's it's

00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:13.500
important to run the simulation because

00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:15.839
maybe you found some bandwidth like when

00:35:15.839 --> 00:35:17.700
I started sub stack I'm like why do I

00:35:17.700 --> 00:35:20.160
want to run a newsletter ah I don't know

00:35:20.160 --> 00:35:22.859
let me let me just try this so

00:35:22.859 --> 00:35:24.480
we get to

00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.940
running simulations this is very

00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:29.880
important part of being human and we get

00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:31.140
it from

00:35:31.140 --> 00:35:34.140
our animal nature because animals can

00:35:34.140 --> 00:35:37.619
run simulations of the environment so so

00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:41.099
yeah I'm sorry I guess I'm I'm ahead of

00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:43.380
myself but it's very exciting

00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:46.500
like how I want to show you why this

00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:48.359
slow steady pace

00:35:48.359 --> 00:35:52.760
can really build out build this out

00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.500
when we have two questions about two

00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:03.000
actions that

00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.640
you know I guess I want them in a

00:36:05.640 --> 00:36:07.500
hierarchy of satisfaction and where they

00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:08.880
go on the map

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.220
one is just like humor you know like

00:36:11.220 --> 00:36:13.320
finding something funny

00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.480
um feels quite often like a perspective

00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.880
shift or a frame break and releases

00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:20.400
um so I don't know if that only sits in

00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.320
play I think it sort of sits everywhere

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.480
maybe I don't know

00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.880
um and the other is kind of fidgeting

00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.339
and kind of biting your nails or

00:36:29.339 --> 00:36:30.900
something like that that seems to be the

00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.560
body for me it's I think my body telling

00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:35.700
me that I'm

00:36:35.700 --> 00:36:37.980
not perceiving clearly that you know I'm

00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.079
in a story but it's a sort of action

00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:42.780
that my body sometimes does and I just

00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.660
wonder what that what that is what you

00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:47.460
know

00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:51.380
and it doesn't satisfy yeah so there are

00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:54.119
uh we we can use the language as

00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:56.760
threshold and sub-threshold right so if

00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:58.619
we're just doing a story blah blah blah

00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:00.960
blah blah that's so sub threshold that

00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.640
our bodies they're still doing something

00:37:02.640 --> 00:37:05.339
but then sometimes you're at the level

00:37:05.339 --> 00:37:07.560
of you know

00:37:07.560 --> 00:37:08.400
um

00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:09.619
um

00:37:09.619 --> 00:37:12.240
fidgeting or biting a lot of times

00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:14.339
there's kind of something interesting in

00:37:14.339 --> 00:37:15.900
what kind of fidgeting you're doing

00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:18.540
because it can be like a metaphor for

00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:20.940
what you need to do not always not

00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:23.220
always but

00:37:23.220 --> 00:37:27.180
um I know this is true like you can see

00:37:27.180 --> 00:37:30.000
if you let yourself just fidget in a

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.920
certain way and you think why this

00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.380
pattern it can actually be a metaphor

00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:37.140
for what you're looking for

00:37:37.140 --> 00:37:38.700
so

00:37:38.700 --> 00:37:42.720
um you know so there's information in it

00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:43.680
um

00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:46.500
and then sometimes like in real life if

00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:48.900
like I said if you have to give a speech

00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:51.000
and you're nervous and your voice is

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.220
cracking that's okay you just let that

00:37:53.220 --> 00:37:55.200
that happen because there's too much

00:37:55.200 --> 00:37:57.480
energy and stuff but

00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:01.260
um but yeah sometimes in the way I this

00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.440
happens all the time with yeah

00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.480
do you have an example of you have a

00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.640
real example okay good that would be

00:38:08.640 --> 00:38:10.320
helpful I can't think of one

00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.079
yeah I used to have a client who did

00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.320
this with his nails all the time

00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:18.660
I don't know if you can hear that

00:38:18.660 --> 00:38:19.859
like

00:38:19.859 --> 00:38:22.579
just cracking One Nail on the other

00:38:22.579 --> 00:38:26.160
Wiley was telling things

00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:28.800
and so my training was emotional

00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:32.700
Bodywork was like all these little

00:38:32.700 --> 00:38:35.220
things that the body does

00:38:35.220 --> 00:38:38.820
to invite them to make it bigger and

00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:40.980
invite them to make it stronger and

00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:43.740
express and actually for him that was

00:38:43.740 --> 00:38:47.520
like aggression but it was like kept in

00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:50.940
place by just that tiny little things

00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:53.880
that was kind of a leftover

00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.960
um so that's just one example or the

00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:02.180
biting is similar yeah

00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:09.180
so so can you speak a little bit to this

00:39:09.180 --> 00:39:11.700
and at least for

00:39:11.700 --> 00:39:14.280
for some of us maybe I speak to myself

00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.079
like sometimes what happens is you have

00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:16.859
this

00:39:16.859 --> 00:39:18.839
residual

00:39:18.839 --> 00:39:22.380
charge let's say so what that does is it

00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:26.099
really makes it very difficult to know

00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:27.900
when you're reading signals from the

00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.180
environment versus when you're reading

00:39:30.180 --> 00:39:31.380
your own charge

00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:33.780
and sometimes you can look around and

00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:34.980
you'll be like oh but there is nothing

00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:36.780
on these pixels

00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.700
but there's maybe something else in your

00:39:38.700 --> 00:39:40.380
subconscious from something else that

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:42.540
has happened just before and so on which

00:39:42.540 --> 00:39:46.020
might be useful signal so except for a

00:39:46.020 --> 00:39:47.880
response that says

00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.099
you experiment and you refine you learn

00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.440
like how do you sort of slowly get there

00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:53.820
and I can see that has happened over

00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:55.740
time like there was a lot less signal

00:39:55.740 --> 00:39:58.619
before in my reading than it is now but

00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:00.420
still it's hard to untangle

00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:02.579
and so then when you can't entangle then

00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:03.660
you have to go into like the

00:40:03.660 --> 00:40:06.300
metacognition and use all the mental

00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:09.480
models and and that also is not the

00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:10.859
right

00:40:10.859 --> 00:40:14.599
that's not the perfect response either

00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:18.660
I think your body can tell you what's

00:40:18.660 --> 00:40:20.940
the difference not the metacognition

00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:22.619
like

00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:24.480
if

00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:28.320
if you have a clear physical

00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.760
memory of how

00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:38.040
a grounded present aware Place feels in

00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:41.040
your body then you know where you are

00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:44.640
like even a tiny

00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:48.300
a fact a tiny story you can feel it you

00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.220
can feel it am I

00:40:50.220 --> 00:40:53.820
calm am I relaxed am I open am I

00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:56.099
compassionate

00:40:56.099 --> 00:41:00.260
it's like what Bonnie said the other day

00:41:00.260 --> 00:41:03.060
your body

00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:05.700
has a fine sense

00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:10.980
much finer than your words can do so

00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:14.760
it's only the body that I can trust in

00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:18.599
like am I really grounded centered

00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.160
relaxed

00:41:20.160 --> 00:41:23.160
foreign

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.000
that's my answer

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.480
yeah and that's helpful but it's not

00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:37.020
fully helpful according to my body

00:41:37.020 --> 00:41:39.660
because I feel like what you're saying

00:41:39.660 --> 00:41:40.920
is almost like you are already

00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:43.740
enlightened and you have that Center and

00:41:43.740 --> 00:41:45.359
then you can just sense the difference

00:41:45.359 --> 00:41:48.000
and your what I'm saying is that over

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.680
time I've been recalibrating and

00:41:49.680 --> 00:41:52.440
refining that Center but even then

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.500
like in the middle like

00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.480
where you find yourself you start

00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:58.920
refining it and then you get on the

00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:00.420
other side then you can just tell

00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:02.099
because you have that deep somatic

00:42:02.099 --> 00:42:04.020
memory of if you're calibrated or not

00:42:04.020 --> 00:42:05.880
but when you're not there when you're in

00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:07.619
the middle that's the time when you

00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.420
don't know if

00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:12.960
if you it's your natural subtle

00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:14.880
imbalance which you always have nagging

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.640
in the back through some FX stream

00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:20.520
or it is the environment that is sort of

00:42:20.520 --> 00:42:23.220
giving you that signal yeah does that

00:42:23.220 --> 00:42:25.680
does that communicate

00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:29.060
I I think

00:42:29.160 --> 00:42:32.520
I I yes with Ria I think the question's

00:42:32.520 --> 00:42:33.660
a little different than the question

00:42:33.660 --> 00:42:36.359
that Rhea answered although the

00:42:36.359 --> 00:42:39.300
grounding is always in your body

00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:40.140
um

00:42:40.140 --> 00:42:42.119
so

00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.579
I mean pradeep I know works with very

00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:47.119
subtle

00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:51.900
information so at a certain point it's

00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:54.119
neither in your environment or in your

00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:55.079
body

00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.760
at a certain point that's where it is

00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:03.119
it's in the interface and if you're

00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.780
subtle enough to know that that it's not

00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:09.900
one or the other that's the problem you

00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:13.619
just have to work with the fact that you

00:43:13.619 --> 00:43:16.260
can't categorize it you just have to

00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:18.359
live there and I think that's what you

00:43:18.359 --> 00:43:21.540
said you know you you want an out other

00:43:21.540 --> 00:43:24.359
than being with it and seeing which way

00:43:24.359 --> 00:43:26.280
it plays out and I would say at a

00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:27.780
certain point

00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:31.920
the interface is the interface it's a

00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.500
sub threshold right and this gets very

00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:37.099
tricky because it's at the point which

00:43:37.099 --> 00:43:39.839
your response can

00:43:39.839 --> 00:43:42.780
push the environment into a state that's

00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:43.800
clear

00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.619
and the environment can push you into a

00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:49.079
state that is clear they both there's

00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.560
leverage on both sides so words become

00:43:52.560 --> 00:43:55.079
very important right

00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.420
actions become very important because

00:43:57.420 --> 00:44:01.619
you're at the point where the

00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:04.859
yeah you're at the point where

00:44:04.859 --> 00:44:07.440
neither of them have

00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:09.780
you know you can use like particle wave

00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:11.819
neither of them have really made a

00:44:11.819 --> 00:44:14.099
commitment to being one way or the other

00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:15.359
yet

00:44:15.359 --> 00:44:17.880
uh now this sounds all very fancy but

00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:19.500
it's the same like when you work with

00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:21.839
horses and and the energies come up in

00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:23.700
the scallion and he doesn't know whether

00:44:23.700 --> 00:44:25.800
he's gonna kill you and you don't know

00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:28.560
whether you should calm down because you

00:44:28.560 --> 00:44:31.560
have to hold him and not like it's not

00:44:31.560 --> 00:44:34.880
it's not

00:44:35.060 --> 00:44:38.099
actualized yet in the in the space of

00:44:38.099 --> 00:44:41.400
this balance tension and then you either

00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.740
get killed by the stallion or the

00:44:43.740 --> 00:44:45.839
stallion makes progress in your mind I

00:44:45.839 --> 00:44:48.599
mean one of the other and

00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:49.319
um

00:44:49.319 --> 00:44:51.599
so this can happen in the subtle realm

00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.359
between people and their intentions and

00:44:54.359 --> 00:44:57.359
stuff like that also uh

00:44:57.359 --> 00:44:59.460
yeah so that's that's an interesting

00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:02.480
question but of course as Ria said

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:06.900
your connection to yourself is always in

00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:10.760
the body as you make these these

00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:14.339
subtle guesses really about what's going

00:45:14.339 --> 00:45:19.380
on now from a Taoist standpoint uh this

00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:21.180
is not necessarily recommended but from

00:45:21.180 --> 00:45:24.839
a Taoist or Crazy Wisdom standpoint via

00:45:24.839 --> 00:45:27.300
so you need to do this

00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:30.000
um the the state of in between is

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.839
intolerable so you just do something and

00:45:33.839 --> 00:45:37.260
collapse the ambiguity yeah I was gonna

00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:40.079
say it's so subtly nagging tension of

00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.420
the ambiguity that keeps going on right

00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:44.940
because in that state because it's so

00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:47.579
fine and subtle yeah you are only

00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:50.400
feeling that edge on and on and you you

00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:51.960
know sometimes it naturally is gonna

00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.540
crystallize into an action or the

00:45:54.540 --> 00:45:57.420
situation will naturally transform

00:45:57.420 --> 00:46:00.599
but otherwise it can sort of really be a

00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.520
it's almost like the more refined states

00:46:02.520 --> 00:46:04.319
of Peace you access the more these

00:46:04.319 --> 00:46:07.800
little nags are queue yeah it can be

00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.140
infinite it'll be infinite there'll be

00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:13.380
interfaces from the interfaces and so at

00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:16.619
a certain point this is what sages do

00:46:16.619 --> 00:46:19.680
and this is what uh this is what Donald

00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:23.760
Trump did he just like collapsed he kept

00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.160
collapsing the Nuance you know which was

00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:27.720
itself I'm not saying do what Donald

00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:30.900
Trump does but but at that level of

00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:33.720
sophistication that's that's what people

00:46:33.720 --> 00:46:36.900
do you know uh and exactly means that

00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.180
the mind is more refined than my body's

00:46:39.180 --> 00:46:41.220
sensitivity at this stage probably

00:46:41.220 --> 00:46:43.260
that's what so there's a there's a

00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:45.480
mismatch between it should be the other

00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.359
way and what I can perceive through my

00:46:48.359 --> 00:46:50.520
mind and I think I need to bring them a

00:46:50.520 --> 00:46:51.780
little more imbalanced that's that's

00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:53.819
very skills no that's a good Insight

00:46:53.819 --> 00:46:55.319
that I wouldn't have thought of but yeah

00:46:55.319 --> 00:46:57.300
the excess energy is going into mental

00:46:57.300 --> 00:46:59.940
versus like you just gotta work

00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:02.400
keep working the more and more subtle

00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:04.260
awareness of the body

00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:06.740
and I think that's what Rhea was saying

00:47:06.740 --> 00:47:09.660
but I knew you were asking a very

00:47:09.660 --> 00:47:11.760
sophisticated question excellent

00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:15.380
excellent conversation

00:47:26.700 --> 00:47:28.740
I don't know if we can continue on this

00:47:28.740 --> 00:47:31.040
but

00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.560
where does one notice the subtle

00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:36.960
interface

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:38.579
is there an answer

00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:41.359
to that

00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:46.980
okay the subtle interface between the

00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:49.920
mental and the body or the what you said

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:54.420
and the world you and the environment it

00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:56.040
becomes more and more

00:47:56.040 --> 00:48:00.900
what I call porous like okay that's why

00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:04.079
you have to Perfect The Art of

00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.680
perception

00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:10.260
and this is a whole another ball of wax

00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:13.440
it's not just looking

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.980
at or looking for

00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:17.640
um

00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:21.480
yeah so the distinction between

00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:23.520
you and the environment this there's an

00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:25.380
interface between is that mental energy

00:48:25.380 --> 00:48:28.319
or somatic energy is another interface

00:48:28.319 --> 00:48:29.220
and

00:48:29.220 --> 00:48:32.280
that one's usually easier you just go

00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.440
back to the somatic

00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:38.460
you don't try to but this notion of

00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.420
perception is now I just want to say

00:48:42.420 --> 00:48:44.220
because this is the fifth thing and

00:48:44.220 --> 00:48:46.460
we're building on it

00:48:46.460 --> 00:48:49.380
this is not a trivial move and

00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:52.319
everything in the Eastern traditions and

00:48:52.319 --> 00:48:55.740
in Western uh post-modernism tells you

00:48:55.740 --> 00:48:58.440
that perception is not real I don't see

00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.780
the world as it is I see the world as I

00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.540
am the world is empty perceptions of

00:49:03.540 --> 00:49:06.000
simulation the whole field of perception

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.660
has been robbed from us

00:49:09.660 --> 00:49:11.940
by the philosophers and scientists in

00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:13.560
the west and the Scholastics and the

00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:15.300
Buddhist teachers in the east

00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:18.300
this is a complete disaster

00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:21.720
it's a complete disaster

00:49:21.720 --> 00:49:25.260
if if I could it just if you listen to

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:27.599
John ver veggie's last two episodes he's

00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:29.880
just simulating everything it's just

00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.780
simulation on top it just drives me nuts

00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:36.060
and so perception when we go into

00:49:36.060 --> 00:49:40.520
perception is extremely important

00:49:42.240 --> 00:49:44.040
sorry to get on this family are there

00:49:44.040 --> 00:49:46.020
any other questions that are more

00:49:46.020 --> 00:49:49.020
fundamental but I mean I love this but

00:49:49.020 --> 00:49:51.300
we don't want to leap over the

00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:53.339
fundamentals

00:49:53.339 --> 00:49:55.980
Peter reminds me the

00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:58.319
the moment it must have been like when I

00:49:58.319 --> 00:50:01.800
was working with one of the large telcos

00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.339
that I was working in the department of

00:50:05.339 --> 00:50:08.760
Channel management and then I said oh my

00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:12.359
god I've become the priest that tells

00:50:12.359 --> 00:50:15.359
the pupils that they don't have access

00:50:15.359 --> 00:50:18.960
to God directly and that's what channel

00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:21.000
management was and then I realized I'm

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.660
collapsing

00:50:25.319 --> 00:50:29.300
I had to stop work early

00:50:30.859 --> 00:50:33.380
yeah there's a lot of models

00:50:33.380 --> 00:50:37.500
developmental models and everything that

00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:39.540
have that

00:50:39.540 --> 00:50:41.160
result

00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:44.579
nobody goes into intending to do this

00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:47.040
these people are working the models are

00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:48.359
good people

00:50:48.359 --> 00:50:50.760
but

00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:52.559
it's certainly

00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.200
gets you untethered and then what's

00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:56.579
produced is

00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:58.920
problematic yeah and then you're the god

00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:00.960
you're the priest

00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.099
um

00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:04.819
yeah

00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:15.119
so does everyone did did you we didn't

00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:18.480
talk about anxiety guilt and shame is

00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:20.220
are there any questions around that I

00:51:20.220 --> 00:51:21.900
mean if you read the thing it might just

00:51:21.900 --> 00:51:24.960
be uh understandable these were just

00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:28.140
little you know topics that we want to

00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:30.240
use

00:51:30.240 --> 00:51:35.000
the same way across our conversations

00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.079
foreign

00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:48.119
for me

00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:50.240
um

00:51:50.819 --> 00:51:52.920
I talked to them with a friend about

00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.200
this about different anxiousness and

00:51:55.200 --> 00:51:59.599
anxiety anger uh no

00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:05.000
uh and and fear yeah

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:06.070
and

00:52:06.070 --> 00:52:06.599
[Music]

00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:08.599
um

00:52:09.180 --> 00:52:12.059
yeah as I think some heard you you

00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.980
already answered the question

00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:16.260
um like like this kind of um

00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:18.480
unresolvable anxiety with not knowing

00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.599
how to satisfy it I feel like I'm I'm a

00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:24.000
lot in that state but like

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.240
like sort of relating to to like chronic

00:52:27.240 --> 00:52:30.380
uh uh their

00:52:30.380 --> 00:52:33.059
digestion issues like not finding a way

00:52:33.059 --> 00:52:36.119
out or something like um I'm looking I

00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:38.280
mean it's so helpful to like okay

00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:40.140
realize okay it's just like in a way

00:52:40.140 --> 00:52:41.819
like getting to the body like what we

00:52:41.819 --> 00:52:43.880
talked before and

00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.359
finding ground there and just

00:52:47.359 --> 00:52:51.960
keeping look out for his actions

00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:53.819
but yeah I think I guess it's just

00:52:53.819 --> 00:52:56.579
practice uh yeah I don't I don't have a

00:52:56.579 --> 00:53:00.740
question there now I realized um

00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:06.119
speak a little bit uh in fact at the

00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:07.980
beginning the arousal of wanting to

00:53:07.980 --> 00:53:09.359
speak say something but not having

00:53:09.359 --> 00:53:12.780
something failed substantial so maybe

00:53:12.780 --> 00:53:15.540
I'm just satisfying now

00:53:15.540 --> 00:53:18.140
foreign

00:53:18.180 --> 00:53:21.059
I love what you're saying because

00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:24.300
what you're performing is that

00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:27.240
I have this this phrase it takes the

00:53:27.240 --> 00:53:29.700
time it takes like there have been times

00:53:29.700 --> 00:53:32.040
when like when I lost my job like I was

00:53:32.040 --> 00:53:34.500
like a freaking nervous wreck and I had

00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:36.660
to be very careful not to make decisions

00:53:36.660 --> 00:53:38.339
and

00:53:38.339 --> 00:53:41.579
um I couldn't answer the phone because

00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:43.920
it would be someone else looking for

00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.839
money we had just bought the the farm

00:53:47.839 --> 00:53:51.540
and it got so bad that this room I'm in

00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:53.880
now I couldn't I couldn't work in this

00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:55.819
room because it's where I had all the

00:53:55.819 --> 00:53:59.040
books and the money and stuff

00:53:59.040 --> 00:54:00.420
and

00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:02.640
so if you know that's happening that's

00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:04.680
just and you know it's just normal it's

00:54:04.680 --> 00:54:07.619
a normal way of being in the world for

00:54:07.619 --> 00:54:10.020
this particular Body Mind under this

00:54:10.020 --> 00:54:12.180
particular conditions

00:54:12.180 --> 00:54:14.520
that's a big part of the battle because

00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:16.140
the last thing you want to do is either

00:54:16.140 --> 00:54:19.200
be afraid of what your body's doing or

00:54:19.200 --> 00:54:22.079
be ashamed of what your body's doing and

00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:24.240
it takes the time it takes

00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:26.220
sometimes that could be a lifetime

00:54:26.220 --> 00:54:28.680
that's the truth

00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:32.220
but that's okay like that's okay it

00:54:32.220 --> 00:54:33.839
takes the time it takes

00:54:33.839 --> 00:54:35.640
and

00:54:35.640 --> 00:54:37.640
um

00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:41.900
there are

00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:46.559
when we get to perception you'll realize

00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:49.800
that certain bodily States will actually

00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:54.480
enable you to see certain things better

00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:56.599
like you can probably

00:54:56.599 --> 00:55:00.359
see a lot of parents can't see that

00:55:00.359 --> 00:55:03.500
their children are anxious

00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:06.960
and you might be able to see that people

00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.180
are anxious

00:55:09.180 --> 00:55:12.420
um I'm not sure that's what's happening

00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:15.480
to you but but there's there's

00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.940
we don't want to idealize any of these

00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:20.099
things that sounds like we are but

00:55:20.099 --> 00:55:22.559
sometimes it is what it is

00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.359
and

00:55:24.359 --> 00:55:27.059
but when we go into perception we can

00:55:27.059 --> 00:55:29.960
tie that

00:55:30.839 --> 00:55:32.099
to

00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:35.460
what is the perception that needs then

00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:38.220
to close the loop between your body and

00:55:38.220 --> 00:55:40.680
the actions that satisfy and those

00:55:40.680 --> 00:55:43.619
perceptions can be very specific to the

00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:45.200
kind of

00:55:45.200 --> 00:55:47.640
embodied experience you're having right

00:55:47.640 --> 00:55:48.660
now

00:55:48.660 --> 00:55:51.420
if I'm fat happy and lazy I don't see

00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:53.040
much of anything

00:55:53.040 --> 00:55:55.579
right

00:55:58.020 --> 00:56:01.680
and so we can always reclaim all these

00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:04.859
states the intelligence of the body

00:56:04.859 --> 00:56:08.160
um as we build up we build on it

00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:09.960
so

00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:10.859
um

00:56:10.859 --> 00:56:12.960
yeah

00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:15.839
you know some people just effortlessly

00:56:15.839 --> 00:56:18.480
show up as and then some people

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.760
have to work hard to

00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.059
talk when they have the energy to talk

00:56:23.059 --> 00:56:26.900
that's just the way it is

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:35.760
how do you relate what you just said

00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:40.520
with with your concept of disposition

00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.680
um

00:56:43.680 --> 00:56:46.160
okay

00:56:46.390 --> 00:56:47.760
[Music]

00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:50.760
so in the did you Samuel did you saw the

00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:54.500
disposition Matrix a gap

00:56:55.200 --> 00:56:57.839
I don't know if you saw that you might

00:56:57.839 --> 00:57:00.960
yes yeah okay so you have to be careful

00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.920
it doesn't say yeah it doesn't say not

00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.559
to be nervous

00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:10.859
it says can I allow my body to do what

00:57:10.859 --> 00:57:13.680
it does and be surprised if it's doing

00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:16.380
something else

00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:19.280
you see the difference

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:23.099
now

00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:25.140
can I

00:57:25.140 --> 00:57:27.960
have Clarity of perception it's hard to

00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:30.359
have Clarity of perception if your

00:57:30.359 --> 00:57:32.339
body's nervous

00:57:32.339 --> 00:57:35.099
but you can if you're really okay with

00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:37.319
it you're just like oh that's it you

00:57:37.319 --> 00:57:39.720
know I have a car at Knox well people

00:57:39.720 --> 00:57:41.700
don't drive cars that knock anymore but

00:57:41.700 --> 00:57:45.920
or I have a fan it makes too much noise

00:57:46.020 --> 00:57:48.480
your body can actually if you're okay

00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:50.280
with it

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:53.900
put that in the background

00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:57.119
such that

00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:58.680
now you don't want to repress it but

00:57:58.680 --> 00:58:00.480
anyways there's techniques but the point

00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.940
is your body's doing what it's doing we

00:58:02.940 --> 00:58:05.700
don't try to repress it and you can try

00:58:05.700 --> 00:58:09.180
to work on all these aspects so do I

00:58:09.180 --> 00:58:11.400
have a keen sense of inter being you

00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:14.040
might say well the whole world's not

00:58:14.040 --> 00:58:17.220
nervous I'm nervous but let me put it

00:58:17.220 --> 00:58:19.980
zoom out there's intelligence in the

00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:24.780
system so all those things are don't go

00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:28.260
away because you have the body

00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:31.200
and experience it or the state of

00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:34.640
arousal your body's in

00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:37.079
it's workable

00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:39.720
there and there's no idea

00:58:39.720 --> 00:58:42.540
there's no idea so

00:58:42.540 --> 00:58:43.260
um

00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:45.359
does that make sense Ria it does I don't

00:58:45.359 --> 00:58:48.299
think it says anything like

00:58:48.299 --> 00:58:52.020
am I not nervous it's like can I be with

00:58:52.020 --> 00:58:54.480
the fluctuations in my body and be

00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:58.079
surprised like yeah I'm surprised

00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:59.819
or

00:58:59.819 --> 00:59:02.040
I'm surprised I'm not nervous or I can't

00:59:02.040 --> 00:59:04.319
remember what the thing says but

00:59:04.319 --> 00:59:07.380
it does it that it does seem to say

00:59:07.380 --> 00:59:10.260
something like the ideal state

00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:13.700
but it's it's

00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:19.020
not it doesn't exclude

00:59:19.020 --> 00:59:21.859
any state

00:59:24.740 --> 00:59:27.559
Bonnie can you see more about like

00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.839
I I think my

00:59:30.839 --> 00:59:32.480
um

00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:36.119
issue is like back into shame and get it

00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:38.700
like unconsciously and then covering up

00:59:38.700 --> 00:59:43.440
again and again and I mean it's like

00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:45.119
it's like always I feel like that's

00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.559
what's still the mostly present

00:59:54.240 --> 00:59:57.059
when you feel bad

00:59:57.059 --> 00:59:59.220
about something that's authentically

00:59:59.220 --> 01:00:01.940
arising

01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:05.579
so a young boy walks into the classroom

01:00:05.579 --> 01:00:07.200
gets a hard on

01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:10.500
and he gets shamed by that

01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:12.540
he didn't like

01:00:12.540 --> 01:00:15.540
do anything it's authentic energy right

01:00:15.540 --> 01:00:18.599
authentic energy young girls take off

01:00:18.599 --> 01:00:21.420
their shirt and run around and then they

01:00:21.420 --> 01:00:23.940
get shamed by it okay

01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:29.280
so this is this is very uh problematic

01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:30.960
in our society

01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.119
because

01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:33.720
um

01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:37.260
we should never shame authentic energy

01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:39.599
or authentic

01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:42.720
that's a weird word but the thing just

01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:46.920
arises naturally and I I burp and then I

01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.540
mean if you make a like playful joke

01:00:48.540 --> 01:00:52.079
about it or something that's fine but

01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.339
um uh because it puts the person

01:00:55.339 --> 01:00:58.619
psychologically into a double bind

01:00:58.619 --> 01:01:01.440
either I have to say that's not

01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:04.740
authentically me so I dissociate from my

01:01:04.740 --> 01:01:06.299
body

01:01:06.299 --> 01:01:09.599
or I have to say I'm there's a bad boy

01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:11.579
in me

01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:14.280
and he's more authentic or something

01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.420
right so so that's what shame is it

01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:22.799
comes when Society or your parents can't

01:01:22.799 --> 01:01:28.460
allow what's just natural arising in you

01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:34.500
guilt is when like you're in class and

01:01:34.500 --> 01:01:36.299
you know you're not supposed to pass

01:01:36.299 --> 01:01:38.880
notes but you do it anyways

01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:41.880
and you're kind of like hiding and then

01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.540
you get caught

01:01:44.700 --> 01:01:46.680
it's not fun to get caught but it

01:01:46.680 --> 01:01:48.000
doesn't like

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:53.839
creates excessive psychological damage

01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:56.940
however if someone says you're always

01:01:56.940 --> 01:01:58.619
like that

01:01:58.619 --> 01:02:01.079
you know they can overly psychologize

01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:03.839
and turn it into shame so guilty kinda

01:02:03.839 --> 01:02:06.359
no you're it's wrong and they don't want

01:02:06.359 --> 01:02:07.799
you to do it but you're gonna do it

01:02:07.799 --> 01:02:11.339
anyways you don't want to get caught

01:02:11.339 --> 01:02:14.220
um so it's it's easier it's not

01:02:14.220 --> 01:02:16.619
psychologically damaging

01:02:16.619 --> 01:02:17.280
um

01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:20.520
it may be life ending you know you might

01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:21.540
be

01:02:21.540 --> 01:02:25.440
uh but it's it's not you know it's not

01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:27.839
psychologically damaging so

01:02:27.839 --> 01:02:29.819
and then there's some in between like

01:02:29.819 --> 01:02:31.799
you kind of knew it was bad but you

01:02:31.799 --> 01:02:35.640
weren't sure and stuff like that but um

01:02:35.640 --> 01:02:37.500
um so

01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:41.280
you can get into a loop where anything

01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:43.819
that's

01:02:44.059 --> 01:02:47.700
unusual or eccentric about you yourself

01:02:47.700 --> 01:02:50.819
is authentic

01:02:50.819 --> 01:02:54.000
and it's been rejected so you feel

01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.540
ashamed

01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:58.319
and

01:02:58.319 --> 01:03:02.119
uh this is

01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:09.660
it's not complex in this sense there's a

01:03:09.660 --> 01:03:13.619
lot going on but it's a very

01:03:13.619 --> 01:03:15.619
um

01:03:17.359 --> 01:03:19.920
it's a it's a very difficult Loop

01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:21.540
because I then I don't want to be

01:03:21.540 --> 01:03:23.520
ashamed that I'm always ashamed of

01:03:23.520 --> 01:03:26.280
myself so you have to kind of exit it

01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:30.119
all all at once and and and

01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:32.240
um

01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:38.280
come to terms with who you are

01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:41.940
um and we I want to say something we

01:03:41.940 --> 01:03:45.660
actually live in a society where there's

01:03:45.660 --> 01:03:48.000
a lot of bullying and a lot of shaming

01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.460
for odd

01:03:50.460 --> 01:03:53.160
people but I don't think there's been

01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:56.220
ever a society where there's also a lot

01:03:56.220 --> 01:04:00.839
of acceptance and opportunity for that

01:04:00.839 --> 01:04:03.180
kind of a unique person

01:04:03.180 --> 01:04:07.200
it's just you have to find

01:04:07.200 --> 01:04:09.180
where that's happening like at this

01:04:09.180 --> 01:04:11.040
school I think you know I mean there's a

01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:15.299
lot of neuro atypical a lot of

01:04:15.299 --> 01:04:17.280
people who

01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.040
yeah so

01:04:20.040 --> 01:04:22.079
so you don't want to shame yourself for

01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:25.380
being ashamed for being ashamed but you

01:04:25.380 --> 01:04:27.059
want to notice that

01:04:27.059 --> 01:04:29.220
hey

01:04:29.220 --> 01:04:32.400
I am what I am and

01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.220
other people are who they are and

01:04:35.220 --> 01:04:38.640
there's enough space for that to arise

01:04:38.640 --> 01:04:41.160
also

01:04:41.160 --> 01:04:43.559
I'm going with that

01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.280
 them

01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:48.180
and I think you did that a little and

01:04:48.180 --> 01:04:49.980
you like wanted to talk but didn't want

01:04:49.980 --> 01:04:53.599
to talk like just do it

01:04:54.780 --> 01:04:58.079
we love having you here

01:04:58.079 --> 01:04:59.780
yeah

01:04:59.780 --> 01:05:03.980
great we're good people to practice on

01:05:03.980 --> 01:05:07.190
[Music]

01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:11.819
good question

01:05:11.819 --> 01:05:13.140
but you know the difference between

01:05:13.140 --> 01:05:15.480
shame and guilt right

01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:18.500
yeah yeah yeah

01:05:19.070 --> 01:05:22.249
[Music]

01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:51.359
while we're wrapping up uh or I don't

01:05:51.359 --> 01:05:52.740
know until when the session is could you

01:05:52.740 --> 01:05:53.880
speak a little bit about the five

01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:56.160
Buddhas you spoke of Bonnie what was

01:05:56.160 --> 01:05:57.240
that

01:05:57.240 --> 01:06:00.200
because it sounded like everyone has one

01:06:00.200 --> 01:06:03.079
particular disposition as opposed to

01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:07.579
opening up all the FX streams and

01:06:07.980 --> 01:06:11.040
yeah a case can be made

01:06:11.040 --> 01:06:13.859
you know it's not a hard mapping

01:06:13.859 --> 01:06:18.059
that the Buddhas have their own Energies

01:06:18.059 --> 01:06:19.859
so do the affect streams they have like

01:06:19.859 --> 01:06:23.180
a certain energy and

01:06:23.180 --> 01:06:27.059
a case could be made that that's what

01:06:27.059 --> 01:06:28.619
you're doing anyways

01:06:28.619 --> 01:06:31.619
like if you listen to people who've been

01:06:31.619 --> 01:06:32.940
through the process you're trying to

01:06:32.940 --> 01:06:35.280
figure out what is your energy signature

01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:37.260
and which one of the Buddha families it

01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:41.280
belongs to and and I think they're

01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:43.859
working with when they ask you that

01:06:43.859 --> 01:06:46.020
question you're working with the felt

01:06:46.020 --> 01:06:48.180
sense of what's your primary affect

01:06:48.180 --> 01:06:50.400
stream

01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:52.319
so you might choose the Buddha family or

01:06:52.319 --> 01:06:54.240
the god comes in and he just chops off

01:06:54.240 --> 01:06:56.460
your head that's anger play and Mastery

01:06:56.460 --> 01:07:00.660
right or you might choose uh cult you

01:07:00.660 --> 01:07:02.700
know connecting or nurturing that

01:07:02.700 --> 01:07:04.380
there's a different the different ones

01:07:04.380 --> 01:07:07.859
in it so

01:07:07.859 --> 01:07:09.900
that's all I was saying that there's

01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:12.420
there's ultimately I think there's

01:07:12.420 --> 01:07:16.020
they're actually just working with

01:07:16.020 --> 01:07:20.960
the affects the primary affects dreams

01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:25.140
and you'll notice in

01:07:25.140 --> 01:07:27.079
the history

01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:31.680
these also are often correlated with

01:07:31.680 --> 01:07:34.020
certain animal forms

01:07:34.020 --> 01:07:37.799
and that's all because these affects are

01:07:37.799 --> 01:07:40.740
expressed in different ways by different

01:07:40.740 --> 01:07:43.799
animals so so how does one get

01:07:43.799 --> 01:07:46.140
self-awareness of

01:07:46.140 --> 01:07:48.240
because sometimes you might have had a

01:07:48.240 --> 01:07:49.859
lot of opportunity to open up a

01:07:49.859 --> 01:07:51.480
different energy stream which may not be

01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:53.280
your intrinsic

01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:55.559
stream right so you'll never be like

01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:58.380
fully unfettered in that so how do you

01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:00.839
get that self-awareness is there

01:08:00.839 --> 01:08:03.119
wait yeah yeah I don't think this is

01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:05.339
It's a descriptive model it's not

01:08:05.339 --> 01:08:07.440
prescriptive so it doesn't say you

01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.660
should have access to all of them in

01:08:09.660 --> 01:08:12.240
full and equal measure

01:08:12.240 --> 01:08:16.319
um the the if there's a prescription to

01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.600
any of this work is let the body do what

01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:21.239
it does and you might find that you're

01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:24.120
naturally starting to be more like this

01:08:24.120 --> 01:08:25.799
and less like that

01:08:25.799 --> 01:08:30.120
yeah so primary affect stream it's very

01:08:30.120 --> 01:08:32.880
similar so why not my I'm in a

01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:34.620
dispositional state maybe it's a little

01:08:34.620 --> 01:08:39.960
kind of Jumpy so as soon as I'm aroused

01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:43.560
I enter into much more clear accent

01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:45.480
stream right that just means certain

01:08:45.480 --> 01:08:48.480
chemicals and certain things happen

01:08:48.480 --> 01:08:51.060
some people as soon as they're aroused

01:08:51.060 --> 01:08:54.960
they start to get it in the angry like

01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:58.980
that's just where they go first and

01:08:58.980 --> 01:09:02.420
um they may that's like their go-to

01:09:02.420 --> 01:09:05.640
reaction some people panic that's their

01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:08.400
go-to reaction now those are contracted

01:09:08.400 --> 01:09:13.319
forms some people go straight into care

01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.699
you know like they see something

01:09:14.699 --> 01:09:16.920
happening how can I help out that you

01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:19.500
know some people go straight into what's

01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:23.819
play or Mastery they start they think

01:09:23.819 --> 01:09:25.620
about a sports coach you start

01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:28.259
organizing and getting things happening

01:09:28.259 --> 01:09:31.319
and some people will go into seeking

01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:33.779
okay so let's look at the situation so

01:09:33.779 --> 01:09:35.699
those are not negative those aren't

01:09:35.699 --> 01:09:38.580
contractions but some people tend to go

01:09:38.580 --> 01:09:41.400
almost exclusively

01:09:41.400 --> 01:09:44.460
in one and hardly ever in the other so

01:09:44.460 --> 01:09:46.920
some people spend a lot of time between

01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:49.440
care and panic

01:09:49.440 --> 01:09:52.739
it's hard for them to get into sports or

01:09:52.739 --> 01:09:54.600
Mastery energies I mean they can be

01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:56.760
playful I'm not saying that that's not

01:09:56.760 --> 01:09:59.100
true but there's sometimes there's

01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:00.300
certain

01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:04.880
uh let's say skill sets that seem more

01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:09.060
more natural to some people

01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:11.340
um and

01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:13.400
um

01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.199
a lot of times you meet these people

01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:19.739
whose personalities are very archetypal

01:10:19.739 --> 01:10:22.980
and that's because they're always in

01:10:22.980 --> 01:10:24.480
like

01:10:24.480 --> 01:10:26.699
this one

01:10:26.699 --> 01:10:29.460
very much in this mode

01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:32.340
um even in its positive form it's it's

01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:34.920
it's just more of a signature and some

01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:36.960
people they're kind of all over the

01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:38.460
place

01:10:38.460 --> 01:10:39.659
um

01:10:39.659 --> 01:10:42.360
um depending on situation circumstance

01:10:42.360 --> 01:10:45.780
and what they're feeling like so

01:10:45.780 --> 01:10:48.000
I don't think there's a it's just a

01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:50.280
description it's not it's not like one

01:10:50.280 --> 01:10:51.540
of these things that you're better if

01:10:51.540 --> 01:10:53.699
you're all of them

01:10:53.699 --> 01:10:55.380
um

01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:56.699
okay

01:10:56.699 --> 01:11:00.239
good question time to go uh check the

01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:02.699
video and thank you very much for

01:11:02.699 --> 01:11:04.199
spending the morning with me I really

01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.900
like this time slot yeah I'll see you

01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:09.020
soon

## Cohort 6

00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:21.420
foreign

00:00:25.260 --> 00:00:29.359
just chat around for uh

00:00:31.439 --> 00:00:33.960
a couple minutes oh I see I put the I

00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:36.120
put this transcript thing on so now I

00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:38.719
get to see it

00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:42.120
subtitling me

00:00:42.120 --> 00:00:44.820
it's very interesting

00:00:44.820 --> 00:00:46.680
okay

00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:48.739
um

00:00:49.739 --> 00:00:51.899
nice to see you all here this is kind of

00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:54.480
a cool time slot

00:00:54.480 --> 00:00:56.219
um depending upon what part of the world

00:00:56.219 --> 00:00:57.539
you're in

00:00:57.539 --> 00:01:01.760
Susan what time time is it for you

00:01:03.059 --> 00:01:06.060
it's quite civilized here because it's

00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:07.740
ten o'clock

00:01:07.740 --> 00:01:11.040
oh okay yeah we're just in this major

00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.400
flood here we're in an emergency

00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:16.380
lockdown situation so it's quite

00:01:16.380 --> 00:01:18.659
interesting but luckily I have not been

00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:21.360
affected in my area it's not flooded out

00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:24.240
but yeah

00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:26.240
yeah

00:01:26.759 --> 00:01:31.200
okay so this is the last time slot the

00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:34.020
last cohort for

00:01:34.020 --> 00:01:38.040
the specific discussion on affect and

00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.740
emotion and disposition

00:01:40.740 --> 00:01:43.340
people

00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:44.820
um

00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:47.100
what we've been trying to do and I think

00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:50.060
people have been really successful in is

00:01:50.060 --> 00:01:52.740
uh being precise

00:01:52.740 --> 00:01:56.820
with language so as we build out a new

00:01:56.820 --> 00:01:58.799
theory of the body

00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:02.640
it gets quickly gets complicated hi

00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.119
Samuel

00:02:05.460 --> 00:02:07.860
and

00:02:07.860 --> 00:02:09.899
when you know when when we're making

00:02:09.899 --> 00:02:12.540
more and more complex distinctions about

00:02:12.540 --> 00:02:15.540
the lived experience of the body we want

00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:18.480
to be using the same words so we just

00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:21.239
agree on certain definitions

00:02:21.239 --> 00:02:25.819
but we also want when we're

00:02:25.819 --> 00:02:28.980
examining our own lived experience to be

00:02:28.980 --> 00:02:32.599
able to tie that

00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:37.280
experience to the word we're using

00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.020
so that's the important thing we could

00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:42.680
use any old word really

00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.620
but we want the sense that people are

00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:50.760
using the word and they're examining the

00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:51.800
same

00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:55.260
experience in their body basically

00:02:55.260 --> 00:02:58.260
we will get to the point where you can

00:02:58.260 --> 00:03:01.440
feel thoughts arising before their

00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:03.660
thoughts in your mind right so we're

00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:05.760
we're actually

00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:09.660
really kind of becoming really good at

00:03:09.660 --> 00:03:12.180
noticing different energies different

00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:15.379
flavors of energy

00:03:15.720 --> 00:03:17.459
so that's important

00:03:17.459 --> 00:03:20.580
but also that interface when they toggle

00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:23.599
from one flavor to the next right

00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:28.140
because in that interface is where all

00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:31.620
the power and leverage lies

00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:34.500
so if I'm in a cool dispositional State

00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:37.260
and then someone says something

00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:41.580
if I'm already in fear or already

00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:45.659
in a story already in anger

00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:48.720
chances are that's gonna play itself out

00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:52.560
but if I can feel the point

00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.200
of ignition

00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:58.260
and don't let it ignite

00:03:58.260 --> 00:04:00.959
and I can use my perception we're going

00:04:00.959 --> 00:04:03.060
on to perception

00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:06.360
and see other options in the world than

00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.900
I have more agency

00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:12.439
so I'm not just the bean ball

00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.720
you know how many people feel like they

00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:17.880
spent a lot of their lives being a bean

00:04:17.880 --> 00:04:19.919
ball

00:04:19.919 --> 00:04:22.320
being ball at work being ball at school

00:04:22.320 --> 00:04:24.600
bean ball with your friends

00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:28.080
you know it's just a bean ball

00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:32.160
um yeah so the good part of being a bean

00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.220
ball for most of your life is you have a

00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:37.380
lot of taste of what these things feel

00:04:37.380 --> 00:04:38.160
like

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.800
so now we just have to go and identify

00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.100
them so thank

00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:46.080
your

00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:49.940
God for allowing you to be a bean ball

00:04:49.940 --> 00:04:53.479
you have experience what it feels like

00:04:53.479 --> 00:04:56.000
uh to be

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.020
moved around

00:04:58.020 --> 00:05:02.520
uh mercilessly by other powers other

00:05:02.520 --> 00:05:05.580
than yourself and

00:05:05.580 --> 00:05:07.199
um now we're going to take that as

00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.280
information to learn from it so

00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:13.259
um yeah

00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:15.320
um

00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.160
I see a couple of new faces uh at least

00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.440
one new phase hi Kate or Katie Kate hi

00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:27.780
uh wonderful to have you here the way

00:05:27.780 --> 00:05:28.800
this

00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:32.280
um design has been working is that you

00:05:32.280 --> 00:05:34.560
will be going in a breakout group with

00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:36.900
people who are more familiar with the

00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:40.820
work so make sure that they deliver

00:05:40.820 --> 00:05:43.979
answers to your questions because

00:05:43.979 --> 00:05:48.600
they've been reporting how much they

00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.780
enjoy that role and it helps them

00:05:51.780 --> 00:05:54.120
understand and most of us have our own

00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:55.380
communities

00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:56.940
so

00:05:56.940 --> 00:05:57.479
um

00:05:57.479 --> 00:06:00.840
yeah and those of you who are in with

00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:03.360
people who have not spent so much time

00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.880
with the material this month

00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:07.620
um I know you're all actually much

00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:09.900
better than I am at this so I don't have

00:06:09.900 --> 00:06:12.539
to say this is just make sure that you

00:06:12.539 --> 00:06:14.580
know some of the fundamentals that we

00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:15.960
talked about

00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:18.720
um get get reiterated and I know you

00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:20.880
know what those fundamentals are

00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:23.460
so we

00:06:23.460 --> 00:06:26.819
um yeah I mean once we get into

00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.280
perception and then memory and then we

00:06:29.280 --> 00:06:32.720
go on to abstractions it's going to get

00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:36.720
extremely complex so we just want to be

00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:39.360
comfortable uh with this fundamental

00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.199
domain

00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.319
um yeah and then when we come back

00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.780
um so so you're gonna have 45 minutes

00:06:48.780 --> 00:06:51.900
with each other uh we're going to come

00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:55.860
back and surface uh what questions still

00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:58.560
don't seem to be answered

00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.600
um what is the confusion and and

00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:03.120
probably we will have some sophisticated

00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:04.860
questions

00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:07.199
um uh you know the most difficult

00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:09.240
questions are the ones that deal with

00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:13.979
real life so maybe we'll try to ask some

00:07:13.979 --> 00:07:16.919
of those questions I did ask one last

00:07:16.919 --> 00:07:19.620
week about

00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:22.380
um geopolitics

00:07:22.380 --> 00:07:26.160
um but maybe we can end with

00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.160
um

00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:32.240
um may even an open-ended question about

00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:37.319
uh how is this useful in in real life

00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.199
um yeah those are always those are

00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.580
always the more difficult questions

00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.440
are there any questions or comments

00:07:46.440 --> 00:07:49.400
right now

00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:10.979
okay we're a little early but I'm gonna

00:08:10.979 --> 00:08:13.500
put you in for 50 minutes

00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:18.319
uh let's see breakout rooms

00:08:20.260 --> 00:08:23.360
[Music]

00:08:26.099 --> 00:08:28.560
and

00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.520
uh let's see what somebody will have

00:08:32.520 --> 00:08:34.260
four

00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:36.719
okay so it's going to be that's good

00:08:36.719 --> 00:08:40.020
because I'm going to do 50 minutes and

00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:44.339
there will be two groups that have four

00:08:44.339 --> 00:08:45.540
um

00:08:45.540 --> 00:08:48.920
and I'll see you at the top of the hour

00:08:48.920 --> 00:08:51.720
enjoy your company

00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.700
and have a general generative

00:08:53.700 --> 00:08:56.480
conversation

00:08:59.270 --> 00:09:04.590
[Music]

00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:08.779
foreign

00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:21.169
[Music]

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:43.519
I see lots of smiling faces

00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.000
what do we want to share

00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.279
are there any first of all are there any

00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.880
questions like any Thick questions that

00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:06.980
uh seem to be still hanging

00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.519
uh jolt Katie

00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:17.120
foreign

00:10:17.779 --> 00:10:20.700
Yeah in our group um one of the

00:10:20.700 --> 00:10:22.980
questions that we were on for a while

00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:26.160
was um how do we relate to friends or

00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:27.779
loved ones who are coming to us and

00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:29.940
they're like really really in a story

00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:33.360
and like really really contracted

00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:33.959
um

00:10:33.959 --> 00:10:36.240
who might not

00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.160
like have a framework to work with or

00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:39.899
like have

00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:41.760
like they don't they don't have any

00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:43.380
cognition or other things arising from

00:10:43.380 --> 00:10:44.940
their bodies and if you try to take it

00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:46.920
to a meta level or try to exit their

00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:49.440
story this can be kind of alienating

00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.339
um so we yeah we we talked about that

00:10:53.339 --> 00:10:55.019
for a while but I was curious your

00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:57.240
thoughts yeah this is an interesting

00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:58.270
question

00:10:58.270 --> 00:10:59.160
[Music]

00:10:59.160 --> 00:10:59.760
um

00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:02.220
first of all it depends on the context

00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:07.200
of courses that that response so if it's

00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:08.940
a loved one

00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:11.700
and

00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:14.040
you're in danger of being caught up in

00:11:14.040 --> 00:11:16.380
the story yourself that's different than

00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:20.279
if it's a friend and you completely see

00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.620
that they're in a story okay do you see

00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:24.660
the difference like

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:26.040
like

00:11:26.040 --> 00:11:28.140
uh

00:11:28.140 --> 00:11:30.060
in the second case

00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:31.860
you're not

00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:35.579
having to work not to get caught up in

00:11:35.579 --> 00:11:37.440
this story yourself in the first case

00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.079
you may have to work to get caught not

00:11:40.079 --> 00:11:42.300
get caught up in the story

00:11:42.300 --> 00:11:44.700
so I'll take the first case first in

00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:46.320
terms of my own experience when I was

00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.839
going through this with my partner like

00:11:48.839 --> 00:11:49.980
literally

00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:55.140
I had nothing I I all all my effort was

00:11:55.140 --> 00:11:58.680
just to disengage so I would just stand

00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:01.680
there and like like a poker face or

00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:04.860
something like like I had nothing I had

00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:08.100
no ability to do something other than

00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:10.980
just stay out of the story it got to be

00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:12.480
kind of funny because he'd be like

00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.940
there's that face again like because

00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:17.519
there was nothing coming from me

00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:21.180
but that's all the capacity I had but it

00:12:21.180 --> 00:12:24.300
really helped like understand that if I

00:12:24.300 --> 00:12:26.459
didn't disengage the thing the story

00:12:26.459 --> 00:12:29.240
would just

00:12:30.060 --> 00:12:33.240
it would just even my attempt to defend

00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.640
within the story to break down the story

00:12:35.640 --> 00:12:38.880
would be part of the story so

00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:44.639
so uh yeah so but if you have a friend

00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.959
and you can see they're in the story

00:12:48.959 --> 00:12:50.959
um

00:12:51.660 --> 00:12:55.740
I think that

00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.660
how I mean I I pract you know I I

00:13:00.660 --> 00:13:03.240
experiment basically it's a process of

00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.180
experimenting so

00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:09.560
what I um

00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:14.399
when you may have seen me do it here at

00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.440
the school but it's like

00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.920
you're basically trying to

00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:29.160
move orthogonal move their the

00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:32.339
conversations somewhere else because if

00:13:32.339 --> 00:13:34.500
you try to attack it at the level of

00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:37.440
story it just stories it

00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.740
like like sometimes I just say I

00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:44.100
remember one time someone got started

00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:46.740
I'm like a really bad coach and I and

00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.600
she went on and on and she's paying me

00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:49.740
and I'm like

00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:53.519
I have no idea what you're talking about

00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:57.980
and it was because of that because

00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.680
there was just this huge download and I

00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:03.540
didn't want to engage it it didn't make

00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:06.660
sense it wasn't touch base with reality

00:14:06.660 --> 00:14:10.139
so sometimes a move like that is very

00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:13.320
important but there always moves they're

00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.139
always energetic moves

00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:18.420
because if they're linguistic and you

00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:20.000
get in the story

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.040
this is my problem with writing the

00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:26.579
comment on uh my commentary on after

00:14:26.579 --> 00:14:29.399
Socrates I want to take him Point by

00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:30.420
point

00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:33.120
but then I get drawn into this story

00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.160
right so

00:14:35.160 --> 00:14:38.519
the energetic moves you can imagine like

00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.480
when someone gets really upset

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.940
and then their little puppy comes you

00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:46.980
know that's an energetic move you know

00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:48.720
they're like all upset and it's like oh

00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.660
it's cute little puppy so they're always

00:14:51.660 --> 00:14:54.540
embodied energetic moves and what comes

00:14:54.540 --> 00:14:57.420
out of your mouth may or may not work

00:14:57.420 --> 00:14:59.160
does that make sense

00:14:59.160 --> 00:15:01.740
I mean this is the lamest

00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:06.240
construction manual ever but but it's

00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.199
you just have to

00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.000
you just have to experiment and really

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.920
try not to

00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:18.600
engage the story at the level of the

00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:20.880
story and listen to when there's a

00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:22.980
what's coming out of their mouth is

00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:25.199
something you you do want to engage oh

00:15:25.199 --> 00:15:28.260
that's interesting what did you just say

00:15:28.260 --> 00:15:32.600
you know because sometimes there is this

00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:38.040
little gem that they'll send out

00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:40.740
um unconsciously so

00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:43.079
um yeah that's the best I got I mean

00:15:43.079 --> 00:15:45.420
it's not perfect it's a big experiment

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:50.160
The Human Condition is so complex

00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:53.720
um but uh

00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.360
you can also use the affect stream like

00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.959
are they angry and should I be playful

00:15:59.959 --> 00:16:03.000
are they you know some of that sometimes

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.760
is a methodology that might give you

00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:08.300
some ideas

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.220
um but it's a really good question it's

00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:13.199
an ongoing question

00:16:13.199 --> 00:16:17.120
it's a great question yeah

00:16:19.680 --> 00:16:21.600
do you have a follow-up or that's good

00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.000
you yeah I mean because that's just now

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.519
there's a lot to think about yeah it's a

00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.940
great question

00:16:48.839 --> 00:16:50.940
if you joined us at the top of the hour

00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.000
uh feel free to jump in also

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.000
um

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:07.679
funny could you talk a little bit about

00:17:07.679 --> 00:17:12.419
um the the bottom right hand corner of

00:17:12.419 --> 00:17:14.839
the Gap diagram

00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:19.260
where the question can I shift the

00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:22.439
notion of the body into the larger

00:17:22.439 --> 00:17:25.199
context of the natural world and the

00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:28.760
reality of The Human Condition

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.700
um

00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:38.220
so if you think of how we've been

00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:42.320
talking about affect anymore affect

00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:46.520
it's kind of singular

00:17:47.520 --> 00:17:50.100
and some of the questions as you mature

00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:52.559
in this in this journey some of the

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.940
questions aren't can't get resolved

00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:59.460
in that framework

00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:02.700
it has to be resolved in a much larger

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:04.020
context

00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:05.820
so

00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:07.500
um can you read that what that says

00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.720
again so I can

00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.940
what does the bottom of my head Corner

00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:13.140
says

00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:15.840
um can I shift the notion of the body

00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:19.440
and notion of the body is

00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.320
into the larger context of the natural

00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:25.620
world and the reality of The Human

00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:28.799
Condition okay so I'll give you an easy

00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:30.480
example

00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.340
so everything we've been talking about

00:18:32.340 --> 00:18:35.700
is primarily about my affects my body

00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:37.740
making me healthy and stuff like that

00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.900
that's a place to start I had a

00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:41.700
conversation with a friend I hadn't

00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.260
talked to a long time

00:18:43.260 --> 00:18:47.940
and he has a seven-year-old daughter and

00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:50.039
he's been thinking about her in seven

00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.980
year cycles and he's like she'll be 14

00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:55.500
and then the next cycle

00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:57.720
you know what and this really scares

00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.400
them should scare everybody right

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.620
and so we talked about like what should

00:19:04.620 --> 00:19:06.900
I say and it's a big deal you know

00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:10.200
transgender and she's already like

00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.480
she's only seven but

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.840
I said you know you have to be willing

00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:17.580
because he's in the spiritual community

00:19:17.580 --> 00:19:19.860
and he's really transparent and very

00:19:19.860 --> 00:19:21.539
honest I'm like you got it you're a dad

00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:23.280
you got to be willing to take the hit

00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:26.280
like just say I'm a grumpy old

00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:28.020
traditionalist and you're not getting

00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:31.860
bottom surgery or tops you know like

00:19:31.860 --> 00:19:33.720
like

00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.020
so that's him seeing all the work he did

00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:40.500
now he has to see it outside of that

00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:41.820
that

00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:44.280
it's a different frame like he's just

00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:45.120
got a

00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:46.860
a pair like

00:19:46.860 --> 00:19:48.480
I'm like and I'm like that's really

00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.400
useful because she just can go and tell

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.820
her friends like he's a freaking

00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:56.640
he's just a grumpy old man like that's

00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.980
really useful you know how that's useful

00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:02.220
I know how I use that with my father and

00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.740
so like that's another that's the next

00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:06.960
little

00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.880
phase out

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.940
and then you can get the next phase out

00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.299
you can get so

00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:17.600
the the

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:21.780
choices you make

00:20:21.780 --> 00:20:24.360
are completely opposite from what you

00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:26.340
would make in the way we're having a

00:20:26.340 --> 00:20:29.299
conversation now

00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:31.679
in terms of

00:20:31.679 --> 00:20:34.200
your affects and your what your body is

00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.059
saying and stuff like that your body's

00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:37.799
still saying it but

00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.980
it's understanding itself in these

00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:46.020
these larger contexts you know so

00:20:46.020 --> 00:20:51.360
um that's what that means and

00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:53.220
you know it'd be interesting to keep

00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:54.660
coming to that

00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:59.520
that Gap thing as we go on and add on

00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:02.400
some of the aspects but it just reminds

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.280
you that we're in an individualistic

00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:07.380
kind of framework we're trying to keep

00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:09.720
ourselves healthy and our dispositional

00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.179
state healthy and this and that

00:21:12.179 --> 00:21:14.460
and

00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:17.880
the body exists also in a in a larger

00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:19.860
context

00:21:19.860 --> 00:21:20.820
um

00:21:20.820 --> 00:21:24.740
so that's where it goes down there

00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:29.039
was that a helpful answer like yeah

00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.480
that's helpful it's

00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:37.200
sort of that capacity to zoom out a

00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.940
little more in the place of presence

00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:44.059
um

00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.940
and situate

00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:51.360
you know myself in in a broader context

00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:52.620
yeah

00:21:52.620 --> 00:21:55.500
yeah to zoom out it's a big zoom out and

00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:59.039
a lot of it has to do with

00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.400
not trying to perfect the situation in

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.780
your own

00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:07.679
Body Mind in this lifetime

00:22:07.679 --> 00:22:11.880
you know so like some people

00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.000
will never be

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.799
sane

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.380
but you can exist in that bottom right

00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:22.500
hand corner saying okay this is part of

00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:25.320
the human condition I'm part of what it

00:22:25.320 --> 00:22:27.840
is to have The Human Condition

00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:29.880
and there's a lot of Beauty in people

00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.919
who are like high functioning like

00:22:31.919 --> 00:22:34.620
schizophrenic parents you know because

00:22:34.620 --> 00:22:38.400
that's they have to have this big

00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.440
this big

00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:42.179
bigger picture

00:22:42.179 --> 00:22:44.840
and it's also like when a lot of people

00:22:44.840 --> 00:22:48.480
like during Trump and

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.659
the internet and my students at the time

00:22:51.659 --> 00:22:53.220
at The Graduate Institute they're like

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:55.980
my husband's like he's into conspiracy

00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:58.440
series he's he's going insane and I'm

00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:00.360
like that's okay The Human Condition

00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:02.340
knows how to be

00:23:02.340 --> 00:23:05.400
that so it's something like that it's

00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.340
understanding like when I say the flux

00:23:08.340 --> 00:23:10.440
and flow of my body like everything

00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.260
that's around me could be crazy even and

00:23:13.260 --> 00:23:17.000
that's okay like

00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:20.340
like chemical child whatever the name is

00:23:20.340 --> 00:23:22.559
she says everything is workable from

00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:25.140
here right so that's kind of what that

00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:26.159
means

00:23:26.159 --> 00:23:28.500
but we don't talk about it a lot in this

00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:31.080
first module we talk about our affects

00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:33.380
and our you know

00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.159
our framing of it

00:23:42.320 --> 00:23:48.059
it's a very helpful GPS for me

00:23:48.059 --> 00:23:51.440
as just a kind of

00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:55.559
diagnostic of where am I you know what

00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:56.820
and

00:23:56.820 --> 00:24:00.020
what what can be

00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:03.740
activated or

00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.500
locate you know like how can I locate

00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:10.799
myself or relocate myself yeah and that

00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.440
bottom right hand is presence right and

00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.900
we usually we think of presents I'm I'm

00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:19.140
right here and you know what I'm saying

00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.840
and this is can I be present to

00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:25.620
something that's basically wild causal

00:24:25.620 --> 00:24:28.440
wildness that's basically okay that's

00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.500
the answer can I be present to how Wild

00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:33.360
causality is

00:24:33.360 --> 00:24:35.880
and still feel present and when we use

00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:37.980
that term usually like

00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:41.000
presenting you know like you're here

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.400
your frame is kind of small you're not

00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.980
distracted

00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:49.320
that's what that corner means like can I

00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:52.620
be like can I what is the analogous

00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:56.580
version of that to the causal wildness

00:24:56.580 --> 00:24:58.860
of the universe

00:24:58.860 --> 00:25:01.679
so I think that's that's actually the

00:25:01.679 --> 00:25:05.220
answer thanks for sticking with me there

00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:07.820
it's beautiful

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.640
Bonnie I have a question

00:25:16.679 --> 00:25:19.559
uh I was just listening to the um

00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.980
recording from the cohort five and you

00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:26.220
said in there that

00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:30.600
an affect is a um seeking an action that

00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:31.799
will satisfy

00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.860
and and I'm wondering in the context of

00:25:34.860 --> 00:25:38.279
what Sandra just said is it seeking an

00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:40.320
action that will satisfy

00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:44.460
the energy that is happening in me or

00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.620
in the interface and the whole and the

00:25:46.620 --> 00:25:49.260
interconnected everything

00:25:49.260 --> 00:25:54.059
yeah that's a great question so

00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:57.960
Sandra was aroused by this question

00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.140
the action that satisfied you so you see

00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:04.440
I I would say some things and didn't

00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:08.520
really satisfy it and then we got to a

00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:11.520
speech act that satisfied that I'd never

00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:14.460
actually said before right

00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:16.760
so in this case

00:26:16.760 --> 00:26:21.419
the sense of satisfaction was shared

00:26:21.419 --> 00:26:23.700
like I didn't feel great she was a

00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:26.580
little satisfied but when we were when I

00:26:26.580 --> 00:26:30.539
said causal wildness we both knew that

00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:31.740
that was

00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:34.140
the right reflection

00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:37.260
for where I was going

00:26:37.260 --> 00:26:39.059
so

00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:42.659
um uh if you're in dialogue a lot of

00:26:42.659 --> 00:26:44.820
times it is

00:26:44.820 --> 00:26:47.400
your your sense of satisfaction won't

00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.020
happen because you're trying to

00:26:49.020 --> 00:26:51.480
communicate something so it'll happen

00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.600
together the satisfaction

00:26:54.600 --> 00:26:55.980
but

00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:59.460
you can only feel the satisfaction in

00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.919
your own body

00:27:01.919 --> 00:27:04.260
it might be

00:27:04.260 --> 00:27:07.320
like when I said that and it landed for

00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:09.900
me I could tell it landed for her but if

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:12.240
it didn't land for her

00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:16.159
it wouldn't have felt

00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:21.659
landed for me it just wouldn't have also

00:27:21.659 --> 00:27:24.539
I was really looking at her and the word

00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:28.559
causal wildness came out by me trying to

00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:33.059
like like engage I mean I've met Sandra

00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:34.679
and we've had a lot of fun together so

00:27:34.679 --> 00:27:36.120
it's a little easier

00:27:36.120 --> 00:27:40.740
so always it's in your body

00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:44.640
but it could be tracking a collective

00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.320
foreign

00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:50.279
but you shouldn't try to look and see if

00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.320
someone else is satisfied I mean you're

00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:55.620
looking you're being perceptive but the

00:27:55.620 --> 00:28:00.260
feedback loop is always in your body

00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:02.640
did I answer your question you did

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.679
beautifully thank you and I'm also just

00:28:04.679 --> 00:28:06.900
noticing because um I have a couple

00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:09.120
friends that we have these emergent kind

00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:10.620
of conversations all the time with each

00:28:10.620 --> 00:28:12.419
other and

00:28:12.419 --> 00:28:15.480
there's a different felt satisfaction in

00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:21.299
my body when we both yeah yeah

00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:24.960
so and sometimes you can get really wow

00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:29.640
that worked for me and then no right so

00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.580
um but it's always in your body

00:28:32.580 --> 00:28:35.220
and that was a great question because it

00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:38.100
was just right was did that describe

00:28:38.100 --> 00:28:40.440
your experience Sandra

00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.700
yeah like it was okay but it was kind of

00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:48.539
Unfinished and then yeah yeah

00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:50.640
but I didn't just come up with the word

00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.640
causal wildness by myself I was really

00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:55.679
like looking looking at her and

00:28:55.679 --> 00:28:57.900
imagining her in this face in the

00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:01.380
different ways yeah so it was it was it

00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:03.720
was co-created

00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.720
um

00:29:08.340 --> 00:29:10.919
and now I understand that better myself

00:29:10.919 --> 00:29:12.900
I mean I write these things I don't know

00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:15.120
what the hell they mean

00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:17.220
like I don't know where they come from

00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:20.440
[Music]

00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:25.620
great question great follow-up to that

00:29:25.620 --> 00:29:27.799
yeah

00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:05.100
it points to another question that I had

00:30:05.100 --> 00:30:07.620
and so I feel like the whole thing just

00:30:07.620 --> 00:30:11.399
got kind of unpacked about

00:30:11.399 --> 00:30:12.260
um

00:30:12.260 --> 00:30:15.480
speech acts that are participatory and

00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.320
procedural

00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.620
and there's something

00:30:21.620 --> 00:30:23.580
in that

00:30:23.580 --> 00:30:24.539
um

00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:26.700
causal wildness and in that

00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.799
connectedness that

00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.799
changes

00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:34.440
everything I mean I don't know how to

00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:36.299
talk about it it's just I can feel it in

00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.720
my body

00:30:52.320 --> 00:30:55.020
Shelf

00:30:55.020 --> 00:30:57.240
oh come on a question about

00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.399
dispositional States maybe you can just

00:30:59.399 --> 00:31:01.500
flesh out a little bit more about what

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.179
um

00:31:03.179 --> 00:31:05.820
hmm

00:31:05.820 --> 00:31:07.500
like whatever refinement of these might

00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.600
look like because you pointed a couple

00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:12.419
things that you could use to

00:31:12.419 --> 00:31:14.159
I'm not sure if you meant modulate them

00:31:14.159 --> 00:31:15.840
discreetly like you mentioned breath

00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:17.940
work and Qigong Qigong sounds like

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:18.960
something that's probably like a long

00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:20.100
Arc

00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:21.600
development but maybe something like

00:31:21.600 --> 00:31:23.880
breath work you could do acutely like

00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:25.080
just modulate your breathing for some

00:31:25.080 --> 00:31:26.640
period and this does something to

00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.100
dispositional state

00:31:29.100 --> 00:31:30.179
um

00:31:30.179 --> 00:31:31.559
but both those things just point out

00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:33.659
that there are

00:31:33.659 --> 00:31:34.200
um

00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.720
more useful or less useful dispositional

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.460
States I'm curious like what are the

00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:40.559
axes that you're tracking

00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.299
um for dispositional states that are not

00:31:42.299 --> 00:31:44.580
just affects are they like potentials

00:31:44.580 --> 00:31:46.500
for skillful affects and like that just

00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:49.640
say a bit more about that

00:31:50.059 --> 00:31:55.320
yeah it's a murky murky area

00:31:55.320 --> 00:31:55.720
um

00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.440
[Music]

00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:00.799
so why it's difficult to talk about

00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.059
dispositional States is because

00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:09.659
I want to I don't want to say that a

00:32:09.659 --> 00:32:11.640
good dispositional state

00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.600
feels good

00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:17.159
uh

00:32:17.159 --> 00:32:19.020
because sometimes things are just

00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:21.179
working on you and it's not an affect

00:32:21.179 --> 00:32:24.380
it's just

00:32:25.020 --> 00:32:29.279
uh Peter Lindbergh would call it Damon

00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.940
if you're you know so it's not an affect

00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:36.240
I mean you may be seeking but it's so

00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.140
unclear it's not anxiety

00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:41.820
um so I don't want to say that

00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:44.220
dispositional states

00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:47.159
are preferable if they feel good

00:32:47.159 --> 00:32:49.799
I mean being a human I I like them

00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:52.080
better if they feel good

00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:52.740
um

00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.020
but

00:32:55.020 --> 00:32:57.779
they're murky they're the the energy

00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:01.500
that's rising up below

00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:04.500
and a lot of times just like we go from

00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:09.320
affect to emotion too fast sometimes we

00:33:09.320 --> 00:33:12.720
we go from dispositional state to an

00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.220
affect too fast

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:16.620
because it's got a lot of energy

00:33:16.620 --> 00:33:22.700
and and it haunts us it can haunt us

00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:24.419
so

00:33:24.419 --> 00:33:28.200
so that's all about saying that the way

00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.779
we look at the Gap exercise it sounds

00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:33.240
like that's all really nice but there is

00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:34.980
things that can be ice can I be

00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.610
surprised that my body's just like

00:33:37.610 --> 00:33:41.720
[Music]

00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:46.559
um and not judge that

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.220
um

00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.120
so

00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:52.080
um

00:33:52.080 --> 00:33:54.299
so then

00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:56.460
what can I do

00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:00.179
that works with the dispositional state

00:34:00.179 --> 00:34:02.880
that doesn't interrupt what it wants to

00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:06.960
do so that could be breath

00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.919
um if I think too much

00:34:10.919 --> 00:34:13.020
um I mean it could be journaling but

00:34:13.020 --> 00:34:15.300
sometimes you can go off on a tangent

00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:17.520
I'm not good at journaling some people

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:19.740
are

00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:20.639
um

00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:22.260
um

00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:25.800
it also could be fantasy if you know

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.659
you're in like if you're gonna run a

00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:30.839
fantasy run a real fantasy like

00:34:30.839 --> 00:34:32.639
something that you don't believe in

00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.000
that's very helpful

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.780
but if you run sort of a fantasy you

00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:41.520
might get hooked into thinking that's

00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:43.080
what you're gonna do for the rest of

00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:44.159
your life

00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.879
so going way out in fantasizing is very

00:34:47.879 --> 00:34:49.020
helpful

00:34:49.020 --> 00:34:51.540
it gets rid of a lot of the energy that

00:34:51.540 --> 00:34:54.359
you don't know you know it's a fantasy

00:34:54.359 --> 00:34:57.540
and it can be productive in the long run

00:34:57.540 --> 00:35:01.380
but if it's not enough of a fantasy

00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:03.540
you might think oh I'm going to do that

00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:05.820
does that make sense to you I don't know

00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:09.900
like you're specific so

00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:12.660
um so

00:35:12.660 --> 00:35:14.400
um

00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.540
let's say

00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:21.380
well no that's an asset

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:24.800
um

00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.280
we could have a theory of why the

00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:34.980
dispositional states go up and down and

00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.800
have a lot of energy or not

00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:39.300
um I don't

00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:41.820
I don't really have a theory there's

00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:47.000
nothing in the literature it's more of

00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.339
how to you know Qigong is good with this

00:35:53.339 --> 00:35:56.520
it enables you to cultivate more and

00:35:56.520 --> 00:35:59.720
more energy without feeling like

00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:02.880
uncomfortable with it

00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.180
um and the only reason why I I would say

00:36:06.180 --> 00:36:08.160
suggest is

00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:12.359
if you kind of understood what I said

00:36:12.359 --> 00:36:13.920
um

00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.560
you will notice that a lot of affect

00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.980
energy

00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:22.920
is just a s uh

00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.140
you know what they say that that lever

00:36:25.140 --> 00:36:28.500
where you release the steam

00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:32.400
and a much more of your energy is this

00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.339
other kind of

00:36:35.339 --> 00:36:37.500
life force

00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.380
that doesn't need to be engaged in an

00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:42.240
affect and it can have something more

00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:43.980
productive

00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:47.460
the way we you know so so I don't know

00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:50.520
it's very murky I I don't have the best

00:36:50.520 --> 00:36:54.060
words to to talk about it but the the

00:36:54.060 --> 00:36:57.000
the idea is to explore what if this

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.780
energy wasn't an affect sometimes it is

00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:03.839
but what if what if it isn't I just keep

00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:06.170
letting it like

00:37:06.170 --> 00:37:06.900
[Music]

00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:07.940
um

00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:11.579
uh where where would it take me

00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:14.780
you'd be surprised

00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:18.300
it sounds like you're thinking of uh

00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:20.099
disposition is largely like

00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.740
some sort of Baseline arousal like some

00:37:22.740 --> 00:37:25.020
people are deeper state of arousal

00:37:25.020 --> 00:37:27.240
um do you think like this is just a good

00:37:27.240 --> 00:37:28.619
way to relate to it it's just like

00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:31.440
almost like one-dimensional force

00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:32.780
yeah

00:37:32.780 --> 00:37:35.579
but it could be very calm too and not

00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:37.940
the word arousal wouldn't fit yeah yeah

00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:42.599
so yes exactly but it's not an aspect

00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.480
because it doesn't have a certain

00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.859
flavor you could say it's energy

00:37:49.859 --> 00:37:53.040
um yeah so

00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:55.220
um

00:37:56.700 --> 00:37:58.980
it's an interesting

00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:02.900
way to work with

00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.920
the fluctuations that are possible in

00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:11.099
our bodies you know I'm not sure how

00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:13.680
much of this is because we are the kinds

00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:16.200
of body Minds we are today there's so

00:38:16.200 --> 00:38:18.480
much stimulus there's so much going on

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:20.640
this might have been a stupid

00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:22.680
conversation

00:38:22.680 --> 00:38:25.200
three thousand you know a thousand years

00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:26.280
ago

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.740
because there might not have been that

00:38:28.740 --> 00:38:31.140
much going on but there's a lot going on

00:38:31.140 --> 00:38:33.839
in our body Minds today

00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:36.500
so

00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:43.200
what would you say distinguishes like um

00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:45.960
like a calm kind of chill dispositional

00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.780
state from a depressive state is it is

00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.119
it more the like engagement withdrawal

00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.040
that distinguishes depression from just

00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:54.660
being like chilled out

00:38:54.660 --> 00:38:57.960
yeah and depression you're you don't

00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.599
have a lot of choice Fields

00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.260
um you don't see any choice

00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:05.460
um

00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:08.180
you have no energy to

00:39:08.180 --> 00:39:10.920
it's you're kind of okay that there's no

00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:12.960
choice like and you wish the whole thing

00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.599
would just get even smaller

00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:19.200
um it's uh very similar to reciprocal

00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:22.500
closing or closing you know like

00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:26.579
yeah whereas uh

00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:30.420
even if you're angry that you're looking

00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:32.460
to do something you're looking for a

00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:34.740
choice you're you know

00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:37.380
your explosive the Energy's that way

00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:39.079
versus

00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:40.680
uh

00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:43.079
closing down

00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.200
um

00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:55.440
and depression you know I didn't really

00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.619
um

00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:00.000
like if you have if you know someone who

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.099
is like

00:40:01.099 --> 00:40:03.359
physiologically goes into depression

00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:04.859
it's like

00:40:04.859 --> 00:40:08.160
it's not a psychological state

00:40:08.160 --> 00:40:11.099
like when you get way down there it's

00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:13.859
literally like

00:40:13.859 --> 00:40:17.460
um uh it's a whole different thing than

00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:19.740
the middle category

00:40:19.740 --> 00:40:22.440
being you know so

00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:26.220
um you really have to honor that what's

00:40:26.220 --> 00:40:27.960
happening to people who are in the third

00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:29.940
category is

00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:33.300
quite different than what happens to

00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:36.900
people regularly when they're just angry

00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:41.520
or sat or panicked or something

00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:45.500
um it's a double whammy there's no

00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:50.119
there's no energy to work with so

00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:56.720
Adriana hi

00:40:58.200 --> 00:41:00.240
um I noticed being really

00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:01.619
um

00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.140
activated when you said something around

00:41:04.140 --> 00:41:06.119
the eyebrow is okay when you said

00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:07.920
something bunny just now

00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:08.579
um

00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:10.680
about having a lot in our bodies and

00:41:10.680 --> 00:41:12.720
maybe this conversation wouldn't have

00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:14.820
been relevant a thousand years ago and

00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:16.619
it brought me to an experience I had

00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:19.440
last week and I've been trying to kind

00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:20.880
of um

00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:24.060
sit with it because I was driving and I

00:41:24.060 --> 00:41:25.980
I had

00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:28.320
the beginning of a panic attack because

00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:30.420
I've had panic attacks before so I know

00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:31.680
how they feel

00:41:31.680 --> 00:41:35.160
usually they're triggered by

00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:37.619
um overwhelming the system like this too

00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:38.820
much

00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:42.240
um or or a perceived risk or something

00:41:42.240 --> 00:41:44.339
and and nowadays

00:41:44.339 --> 00:41:46.320
it's funny because even the thoughts

00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:48.240
when I noticed the flickering in my

00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:49.560
chest

00:41:49.560 --> 00:41:51.720
if I have the thoughts I could have a

00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:54.119
panic attack then I have to be very

00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:56.460
diligent to not have it because it's

00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:58.980
very it's like it goes really quick but

00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:00.660
I was driving that had never happened

00:42:00.660 --> 00:42:03.599
with me driving before and it was a very

00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.359
um I had had something with a friend so

00:42:06.359 --> 00:42:09.300
I was already feeling uncomfortable in

00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:11.280
my body there was all sorts of stuff

00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:13.619
that was happening in my world

00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:16.560
that I was uh in a contracted let's say

00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:18.839
State then I was driving

00:42:18.839 --> 00:42:20.579
in that place

00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:24.000
and then I was like oh my God I I could

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.339
have an accident like I'm dry and then I

00:42:26.339 --> 00:42:29.040
started noticing that my fear was

00:42:29.040 --> 00:42:31.079
getting bigger and bigger like I was

00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:32.520
thinking of all the rest of the cars

00:42:32.520 --> 00:42:34.260
coming this way and

00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:38.160
but all of a sudden I made a move that

00:42:38.160 --> 00:42:40.020
was the opposite of trying to think

00:42:40.020 --> 00:42:44.760
about it I I I I just I was almost like

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.240
bypassed consciously the body structure

00:42:48.240 --> 00:42:51.359
like I I was just like I I was the

00:42:51.359 --> 00:42:54.119
totality like something went into my

00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:56.420
awareness really quickly which is a

00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:59.099
disassociation that's familiar to me in

00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:01.140
spiritual practice

00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:04.859
I I went there but without I wasn't

00:43:04.859 --> 00:43:06.839
including everything that was going on

00:43:06.839 --> 00:43:08.819
it was was

00:43:08.819 --> 00:43:12.359
apart from it and I could drive all the

00:43:12.359 --> 00:43:15.480
way an hour I drove all the way like I

00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.819
couldn't focus on the details of the

00:43:17.819 --> 00:43:21.180
road but everything was holding me I was

00:43:21.180 --> 00:43:23.940
holding safety but if I contracted my

00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:27.359
experience into the past into this again

00:43:27.359 --> 00:43:30.480
I would lose it again so and I played

00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.099
with it in the shopping center because I

00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:34.440
had to shop it was my kid's birthday the

00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:36.839
next day and I had to like I was a very

00:43:36.839 --> 00:43:39.359
scattered Shopper I I couldn't stick to

00:43:39.359 --> 00:43:40.440
the list

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.960
but I was very if I didn't care about

00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.319
the list I was a very joyous Shopper I

00:43:46.319 --> 00:43:49.200
was just like so I was wondering

00:43:49.200 --> 00:43:51.839
um because before I would have framed as

00:43:51.839 --> 00:43:53.640
a state shift like playing with the

00:43:53.640 --> 00:43:56.700
states and you're talking about a fact

00:43:56.700 --> 00:44:00.960
and I'm wondering if um so Joe talked

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.339
about

00:44:02.339 --> 00:44:04.680
this the regulation

00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:07.680
if there was some practice of regulating

00:44:07.680 --> 00:44:09.660
my system that I was unconsciously doing

00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:10.980
by

00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:14.579
um hyper and hypo playing with the hyper

00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:17.160
um how do you call those bunny like when

00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:19.319
you make something hyper

00:44:19.319 --> 00:44:21.660
the Salient in your experience and

00:44:21.660 --> 00:44:23.520
something High post Salient and I was

00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:26.300
playing with that or

00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:30.720
yeah so you know this is not exactly the

00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:32.160
same as your experience and then we'll

00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:34.260
get to talking about it but when I had

00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:38.579
my hysterectomy I mean I've been like

00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:41.579
really big risk taker and all this stuff

00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:42.660
was going on and then I had my

00:44:42.660 --> 00:44:46.079
hysterectomy and I got agoraphobic and I

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:48.740
was driving to Massachusetts once

00:44:48.740 --> 00:44:51.540
and I was driving on the road and then

00:44:51.540 --> 00:44:54.599
there was like a valley on both sides of

00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:58.819
me and I couldn't find myself

00:44:58.819 --> 00:45:02.220
I mean such a strange experience I

00:45:02.220 --> 00:45:04.319
couldn't find myself in space I started

00:45:04.319 --> 00:45:07.920
having a panic attack so what did I do I

00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.260
just got over into the off the shoulder

00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:12.839
and I drove like four miles an hour and

00:45:12.839 --> 00:45:14.880
I'm like I'm this little old lady

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.700
driving in a Volvo at four miles an hour

00:45:17.700 --> 00:45:21.240
down the road like I just had to like

00:45:21.240 --> 00:45:23.780
now the the

00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:27.720
advantage I had was I knew it had to do

00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:29.640
with my hysterectomy because everything

00:45:29.640 --> 00:45:34.440
was all messed up right for a while

00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:36.319
um so

00:45:36.319 --> 00:45:39.900
uh it's very very

00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:43.440
significant it's not easy to do that you

00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.420
could notice when the energy wanted to

00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:48.060
become a thought and the thought is like

00:45:48.060 --> 00:45:51.599
putting fuel on the Fire

00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.920
and so

00:45:55.140 --> 00:45:57.359
you know sometimes that's all you can do

00:45:57.359 --> 00:45:58.920
is control the thought and of course

00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.839
once you're controlling the thought then

00:46:00.839 --> 00:46:02.640
another thought what might come in like

00:46:02.640 --> 00:46:04.740
what if I can't control a thought and

00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:07.680
other stuff but

00:46:07.680 --> 00:46:09.300
um

00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:12.720
another thing though it and I think this

00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:15.420
actually happened to you we're going to

00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:17.160
go into perception

00:46:17.160 --> 00:46:19.140
and once you can get

00:46:19.140 --> 00:46:21.240
so you know what the energy of just

00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:24.960
being in perception this is also a way

00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:26.520
that's what you're saying I just started

00:46:26.520 --> 00:46:28.760
driving like I just started like

00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.619
narrowing in that might have been part

00:46:31.619 --> 00:46:33.180
of that so

00:46:33.180 --> 00:46:37.440
if you can then now that you know how to

00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:41.240
fight the thought if you can

00:46:41.240 --> 00:46:44.339
familiarize yourself with how to

00:46:44.339 --> 00:46:46.560
restructure your experience into just

00:46:46.560 --> 00:46:48.359
perception

00:46:48.359 --> 00:46:50.420
then that's that's that's

00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:53.700
also extremely helpful I which I think

00:46:53.700 --> 00:46:56.520
you ended up doing anyway so

00:46:56.520 --> 00:46:59.339
yeah I I did that but I I didn't have

00:46:59.339 --> 00:47:01.500
the experience of zooming in it's my

00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:04.079
experience was expanding out so that was

00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:06.900
I I almost forgot about the driving but

00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:09.300
the driving bit itself so I focused on

00:47:09.300 --> 00:47:11.760
the driving I couldn't drive

00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:14.520
that's why I was I was trying to

00:47:14.520 --> 00:47:17.160
um situate and that and and what you're

00:47:17.160 --> 00:47:19.380
talking about your um hysterectomy that

00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:22.319
matches also my experience because I

00:47:22.319 --> 00:47:24.900
like my My Cycles are getting really

00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:27.660
longer and I from the day two of my

00:47:27.660 --> 00:47:29.640
cycle which this combobulates thought

00:47:29.640 --> 00:47:32.940
anyway and so I but I was in this very

00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.140
vast experience and trying to think

00:47:34.140 --> 00:47:38.060
aggravated me oh so I anyway I was just

00:47:38.060 --> 00:47:40.980
very interesting to do both I couldn't

00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:44.240
do both I couldn't do thinking and drive

00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:47.099
so I would say these are dispositional

00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:50.220
states right because they weren't really

00:47:50.220 --> 00:47:52.680
attached to anything it's just like your

00:47:52.680 --> 00:47:56.700
whole background processes are extremely

00:47:56.700 --> 00:47:59.220
complex and chaotic

00:47:59.220 --> 00:48:01.760
and

00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:05.040
they're not attached to anything they're

00:48:05.040 --> 00:48:06.960
not

00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:09.180
I mean unless you you know they can be

00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:11.339
triggered by something but you shouldn't

00:48:11.339 --> 00:48:12.960
try to

00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:16.020
figure them out you try to be with them

00:48:16.020 --> 00:48:20.480
or be somehow

00:48:21.060 --> 00:48:24.260
uh yeah

00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:30.780
a lot but you know this is the thing

00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:33.540
like when you have something that that

00:48:33.540 --> 00:48:35.460
that's extreme

00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:38.760
it's a burden for sure

00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.400
but I remember thinking when I had my

00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:44.640
hysterectomy like my mom didn't have a

00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:48.060
hysterectomy she went through menopause

00:48:48.060 --> 00:48:50.700
and I started to realize all these

00:48:50.700 --> 00:48:53.400
things that she would do

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.119
were smaller versions of the crazy that

00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:59.940
was happening to me except because they

00:48:59.940 --> 00:49:02.460
weren't so crazy

00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:04.680
she didn't think anything was happening

00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:06.960
to her you know what I'm saying like she

00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.420
just thought the world was a mess or

00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:12.000
something or people were mean to her or

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.240
something and

00:49:16.560 --> 00:49:20.280
yeah like you can for most women it

00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.140
creeps up on them because it's not so

00:49:22.140 --> 00:49:24.240
like oh my God now I can't drive anymore

00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:26.760
you know

00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.800
um so that's kind of interesting

00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:34.260
and I think I don't know I always wonder

00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:37.140
if men have you know the same kinds of

00:49:37.140 --> 00:49:39.240
things too but they don't really

00:49:39.240 --> 00:49:42.740
talk about them that way

00:49:44.460 --> 00:49:46.920
to see how I couched an invitation into

00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:48.900
a

00:49:48.900 --> 00:49:49.920
yeah

00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.240
as a sentence

00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:55.619
I can say something that's kind of been

00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:57.420
relevant for me

00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:59.400
um

00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.339
just as like a

00:50:02.339 --> 00:50:04.140
like my age right

00:50:04.140 --> 00:50:06.140
um

00:50:06.180 --> 00:50:08.940
I don't think I'm any more mature than I

00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:10.980
was I just think my testosterone is

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:12.060
lower

00:50:12.060 --> 00:50:15.300
and I don't do the dumb

00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:18.119
I'm not compelled to do the things

00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.660
that

00:50:20.819 --> 00:50:22.619
that I was

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:23.400
um

00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:25.619
but I don't I I don't think it's

00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:28.440
maturity I actually think it's just

00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:32.640
it it doesn't feel as good because of

00:50:32.640 --> 00:50:34.680
the absence or the lowering of this

00:50:34.680 --> 00:50:36.599
hormone in my body and not not just that

00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:37.859
hormone but

00:50:37.859 --> 00:50:41.660
a cocktail of hormones yeah

00:50:42.240 --> 00:50:45.140
so this is a very sensible statement

00:50:45.140 --> 00:50:49.740
Sandy's my husband's sister had this dog

00:50:49.740 --> 00:50:52.920
he was this German Shepherd Akita cross

00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:54.780
but big

00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:57.839
and he grew up with

00:50:57.839 --> 00:51:02.940
two girls it's a puppy wonderful soul

00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:04.800
but when he got like

00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:08.099
three four years old he this whole this

00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:10.680
dog was Born to Run

00:51:10.680 --> 00:51:13.260
and they would they you know build a

00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:15.660
higher fancy jump over it they build

00:51:15.660 --> 00:51:19.740
another fancy dug underneath it

00:51:19.740 --> 00:51:24.180
and so they said oh you know you want to

00:51:24.180 --> 00:51:25.680
take them for the weekend which I knew

00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:29.119
I'd have them for the rest of his life

00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.099
and then about five years later they

00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:34.380
came to visit me and they're like you've

00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:38.160
done so much for this whole this dog

00:51:38.160 --> 00:51:42.420
right maybe it was seven years later

00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:45.180
what did I do I took them horseback

00:51:45.180 --> 00:51:48.240
riding and he would run for like 30

00:51:48.240 --> 00:51:49.500
miles

00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.740
with me and my um I was on my horse

00:51:52.740 --> 00:51:56.700
and it just I just ran him for like

00:51:56.700 --> 00:51:59.819
you know 12 years or something and then

00:51:59.819 --> 00:52:01.260
when they came in they're like oh he's

00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:02.819
such a nice dog

00:52:02.819 --> 00:52:04.859
like I didn't train them I'm like yeah

00:52:04.859 --> 00:52:07.859
you know I really trained him well he

00:52:07.859 --> 00:52:11.940
just had a certain signature

00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:14.040
and so it's kind of like what you're

00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:18.140
saying you didn't get more trained

00:52:19.020 --> 00:52:23.099
you know it just became a different body

00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:26.819
mind and the thing is

00:52:26.819 --> 00:52:29.880
that our society needs to figure out

00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.319
this is like

00:52:31.319 --> 00:52:35.160
really painful for me our society needs

00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:37.880
to figure out

00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:41.220
how to have

00:52:41.220 --> 00:52:43.800
you know instead of saying this is wrong

00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:48.740
it's like what how can the society

00:52:48.740 --> 00:52:52.319
accommodate this natural beautiful

00:52:52.319 --> 00:52:55.980
intelligence and energy you know it's

00:52:55.980 --> 00:52:57.480
like

00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.000
the whole thing is asked backwards the

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.960
whole thing is like

00:53:07.980 --> 00:53:10.579
foreign

00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:17.660
it's okay that's good

00:53:29.160 --> 00:53:31.980
Bonnie I've got a question yes Anna

00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:35.220
around that's around Stillness

00:53:35.220 --> 00:53:38.160
and the key finding keys to a tune with

00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:39.500
the body

00:53:39.500 --> 00:53:42.359
so in our little breakout where we were

00:53:42.359 --> 00:53:44.760
talking about slowing down and like the

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:47.099
praying mantis finding that moment like

00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:48.480
an attack

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.599
and then just effortless effort

00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.500
and that woo way and that state of

00:53:54.500 --> 00:53:56.460
relaxedness and

00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:58.559
almost effortlessness

00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.800
and when I think of this Stillness or

00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.140
slowing down and going into this

00:54:04.140 --> 00:54:05.460
Stillness

00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:08.040
I see the world speeding up everything

00:54:08.040 --> 00:54:10.260
unfolds the multiplicity of

00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:12.780
possibilities it's like everything is

00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:13.920
here

00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.260
then I wonder about

00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:18.720
when I encounter or when I move into

00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:21.660
another space or another realm and I can

00:54:21.660 --> 00:54:24.059
see what is needed it almost is like

00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:25.920
attuning to the key

00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:29.099
is like finding the right key to use my

00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:30.359
body

00:54:30.359 --> 00:54:32.700
to get into this space of inter

00:54:32.700 --> 00:54:34.020
beingness

00:54:34.020 --> 00:54:36.540
is that making any sense

00:54:36.540 --> 00:54:38.460
yeah and you know I wrote something down

00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:41.579
here Partnership of body and mind and

00:54:41.579 --> 00:54:42.920
you notice how

00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:46.440
[Music]

00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:48.960
uh

00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.800
we start affect and affect and

00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.839
disposition and it seems like we're

00:54:56.839 --> 00:55:01.859
allergic to mental energy right

00:55:01.859 --> 00:55:04.800
I mean we're careful not to say that but

00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.760
but what if you notice

00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.280
throughout the month we've actually

00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.740
created a new partnership of body and

00:55:13.740 --> 00:55:15.960
mind

00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:19.380
right because we're saying oh

00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:21.960
if you if you watch what we were talking

00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:26.359
about we're saying oh here's my body

00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:30.420
and then we're thinking about our bodies

00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:32.400
and we're thinking about outfit and

00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.140
we're thinking about this position and

00:55:34.140 --> 00:55:35.520
we're thinking about our lived

00:55:35.520 --> 00:55:36.900
experience

00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:39.119
it doesn't come from affect

00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:41.579
but you notice how they're in

00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:44.540
Partnership now

00:55:44.700 --> 00:55:47.220
does that make sense like all these

00:55:47.220 --> 00:55:51.119
questions are like oh what happens when

00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:56.839
that happens well the question comes

00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.119
from thought energy really but it

00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:03.359
doesn't dominate

00:56:05.099 --> 00:56:07.980
It's Curious the thought energy is

00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:11.240
curious about the body

00:56:12.660 --> 00:56:14.760
does that make sense like so that's what

00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.800
you're saying like so then how can I

00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.680
work with my body is a different it

00:56:19.680 --> 00:56:21.059
doesn't really

00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:23.280
to ask that question there's got to be

00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.240
some other energy asking the question

00:56:27.240 --> 00:56:30.240
and I don't mean it to be dualistic but

00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:33.059
this Partnership of the mind and the

00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:38.099
body is is is is actually also

00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:39.540
uh

00:56:39.540 --> 00:56:42.000
Happening Here

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:44.819
yeah because that's really amazing where

00:56:44.819 --> 00:56:46.440
you just sit there Bonnie about the

00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:50.220
ethics the noticing of this arising and

00:56:50.220 --> 00:56:52.740
we we were in a chat this week about AI

00:56:52.740 --> 00:56:54.660
a friend of ours Sue was there as well a

00:56:54.660 --> 00:56:57.240
friend of ours was introducing us the AI

00:56:57.240 --> 00:57:01.559
uh like uh GPT and Tomi and what the

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:03.359
possibilities of that were

00:57:03.359 --> 00:57:06.180
and I've felt an epic stream or I was in

00:57:06.180 --> 00:57:08.160
a dispositional state and then I felt

00:57:08.160 --> 00:57:10.200
something arising and I could see the

00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:13.079
emotion where where it was going to and

00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:14.460
I thought no I don't want to go there

00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:16.980
stop so I stopped my body from going

00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:19.380
into that emotion but I stayed with the

00:57:19.380 --> 00:57:21.599
fxt stream and I had a lot of anger and

00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.420
I spoke anger and all of a sudden I felt

00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:25.980
a big space opening up for a

00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:27.780
conversation to stay in with each other

00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:32.400
and that felt like whoa I'm just through

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:34.140
Bonnie's course and being here with

00:57:34.140 --> 00:57:36.599
these people with you guys

00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.900
where we can play with this and stay in

00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:42.599
this place where this anger just can I

00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:45.599
can I can serve on this anger and I can

00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:47.220
stay with that

00:57:47.220 --> 00:57:51.000
I was it was fun I felt alive and I'm

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.700
still like when I recall it so it's just

00:57:53.700 --> 00:57:55.559
I'm very grateful for

00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:59.160
for getting that real knowledge and just

00:57:59.160 --> 00:58:01.559
wisdom that comes online and you can

00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.319
stretch the fields and I don't have

00:58:04.319 --> 00:58:06.480
words for it but I'm trying yeah yeah

00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:09.720
but you can see the the the the power of

00:58:09.720 --> 00:58:12.960
specific words to help us discern in the

00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:14.300
body

00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:17.460
so this is also a partnership between

00:58:17.460 --> 00:58:21.059
the mind and the body right but this is

00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:26.000
an up hierarchy this stuff comes up

00:58:26.220 --> 00:58:29.760
ah what's happening versus like if you

00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.040
got into the story then the story would

00:58:32.040 --> 00:58:33.180
start to

00:58:33.180 --> 00:58:36.240
push down and regulate or dysregulate

00:58:36.240 --> 00:58:38.660
your body yeah

00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:42.240
yeah Jessica

00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:45.000
well ever since I raised my hand my

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:46.859
heart has started pounding I hope I'm

00:58:46.859 --> 00:58:48.839
able to articulate

00:58:48.839 --> 00:58:50.760
um this question

00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:52.260
um but this is when you were saying if

00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:55.020
you like run a real fantasy

00:58:55.020 --> 00:58:57.299
um it reminded me of something I read in

00:58:57.299 --> 00:59:00.180
Martine practice work about like the

00:59:00.180 --> 00:59:02.099
impulse to Revenge so someone has

00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:03.960
wronged me and then I'm like in this

00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:07.020
anger and want to and and so what he

00:59:07.020 --> 00:59:09.900
described is like in community

00:59:09.900 --> 00:59:12.359
um with wise Elders sort of holding the

00:59:12.359 --> 00:59:15.720
space to like feed that story of Revenge

00:59:15.720 --> 00:59:17.640
and yeah and then we're gonna burn their

00:59:17.640 --> 00:59:19.020
house down and then we're gonna and like

00:59:19.020 --> 00:59:21.599
just growing and growing the what's

00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:23.599
gonna happen but

00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.880
knowing that it is a fantasy and we are

00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:28.380
not going to act on those feelings

00:59:28.380 --> 00:59:32.339
eventually the Revenge will Crescendo

00:59:32.339 --> 00:59:36.180
into grief and so when like

00:59:36.180 --> 00:59:38.099
um I was remembering that and then just

00:59:38.099 --> 00:59:40.500
in Anna's question it made me start to

00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:42.540
wonder about

00:59:42.540 --> 00:59:44.700
is it

00:59:44.700 --> 00:59:46.619
with some of the stories and some of the

00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:49.319
the partnership between body and thought

00:59:49.319 --> 00:59:53.400
that were just not meant to or not

00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.460
Mentor not skilled enough often to hold

00:59:56.460 --> 00:59:58.680
the story like in an individual self but

00:59:58.680 --> 01:00:00.780
that collectively like these are things

01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:02.520
that we can really work with so I just

01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:07.319
yeah yeah so that was perfect like like

01:00:07.319 --> 01:00:09.420
the fantasy

01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:13.500
is very useful but it has to be a

01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:15.540
fantasy like you know you really know

01:00:15.540 --> 01:00:19.740
it's a fantasy and in that

01:00:19.740 --> 01:00:22.700
uh

01:00:23.220 --> 01:00:25.020
like I went through a phase where I

01:00:25.020 --> 01:00:27.599
really hated Henry kissing

01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:29.400
like

01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.980
and and

01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:36.660
I didn't let it erode or corrode me

01:00:36.660 --> 01:00:41.180
I created fantasies about

01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:46.020
Revolution and and regime change and

01:00:46.020 --> 01:00:48.839
what young people could do and you know

01:00:48.839 --> 01:00:51.420
great science fiction writers are doing

01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:55.380
this for us cathartically right and so

01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:58.640
but but

01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.200
yeah I mean I don't need to say it again

01:01:01.200 --> 01:01:05.160
but but it needs to be you're

01:01:05.160 --> 01:01:07.920
energetically supplying the fantasy so

01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:10.020
you see you're not in the anger actually

01:01:10.020 --> 01:01:12.299
anymore you're you're in this creative

01:01:12.299 --> 01:01:13.920
act

01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:16.680
um and it's cathartic but the tricky

01:01:16.680 --> 01:01:18.260
thing is

01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:21.180
not to run a fantasy that you almost

01:01:21.180 --> 01:01:23.460
believe because

01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:26.940
then you're kind of so

01:01:26.940 --> 01:01:28.140
um

01:01:28.140 --> 01:01:31.440
uh this is something people can do with

01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:33.180
their children when they're in puberty

01:01:33.180 --> 01:01:36.480
that's very very helpful for them to run

01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:40.020
ex usually kids like to read you know

01:01:40.020 --> 01:01:42.180
let this is the problem with kids today

01:01:42.180 --> 01:01:45.000
I'm just running with this idea is that

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.760
they're watching TV or videos that are

01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:51.079
that are delusions but they're not

01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:53.339
Fantastical enough

01:01:53.339 --> 01:01:55.559
because when kids go through puberty

01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:58.619
they're really in the a lot of fantasies

01:01:58.619 --> 01:02:02.299
and so you can actually help your child

01:02:02.299 --> 01:02:06.359
by really entering into what other kind

01:02:06.359 --> 01:02:09.059
of theater or fantasy or you know

01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:12.059
playing in that space with them is more

01:02:12.059 --> 01:02:14.400
helpful than this little

01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.859
they get on the phone and it's a it's an

01:02:16.859 --> 01:02:19.020
illusion it's fantasy but it's it's it's

01:02:19.020 --> 01:02:22.799
too believable you know that's that's

01:02:22.799 --> 01:02:24.180
the problem

01:02:24.180 --> 01:02:27.540
so that really works for uh

01:02:27.540 --> 01:02:30.420
uh adolescents and people like Aaron who

01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:33.799
who will never grow up

01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:42.440
Katie

01:02:42.720 --> 01:02:46.200
yeah I'm really liking this spot I had

01:02:46.200 --> 01:02:46.980
never

01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:49.020
um I haven't played

01:02:49.020 --> 01:02:50.579
fantasy that way it's really cool

01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:52.799
especially this idea of like allowing it

01:02:52.799 --> 01:02:54.900
to get so

01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:57.780
big that one like by letting it be big

01:02:57.780 --> 01:02:59.339
that takes you further away from like

01:02:59.339 --> 01:03:00.420
the possibility that you're actually

01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.700
enacting this and two it like lets the

01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:05.160
thing Crescendo and feel good

01:03:05.160 --> 01:03:07.799
um and I was just relating it to jolt to

01:03:07.799 --> 01:03:10.140
uh it seems really similar to something

01:03:10.140 --> 01:03:11.760
that's super helpful for me is playing

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:13.200
music

01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:13.980
um

01:03:13.980 --> 01:03:16.260
because it you you take the emotional

01:03:16.260 --> 01:03:17.760
charge and you funnel into something

01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.500
that can actually work it and allow it

01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:21.900
to come alive through like symbol and

01:03:21.900 --> 01:03:23.880
the emotions really come out and are

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:26.339
like working through it and then it you

01:03:26.339 --> 01:03:27.780
get to see it

01:03:27.780 --> 01:03:28.380
um

01:03:28.380 --> 01:03:30.180
you get to see whatever the emotion is

01:03:30.180 --> 01:03:33.000
no matter how ugly like transform into

01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.280
something beautiful before your eyes

01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:36.960
um so like this like kind of process

01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.299
from yeah some kind of charge to the

01:03:39.299 --> 01:03:43.260
imaginal to Art whether that be a

01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:45.299
fantasy in your mind or something you're

01:03:45.299 --> 01:03:48.180
writing or musical or dance people do

01:03:48.180 --> 01:03:50.700
like that seems like a really cool way

01:03:50.700 --> 01:03:52.559
to work with this

01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:54.839
just wanted to share yeah yeah no it's

01:03:54.839 --> 01:03:56.880
very powerful I don't know how we got to

01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:00.119
it today which is really cool

01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:01.559
um

01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.140
um but also you know this is this is

01:04:04.140 --> 01:04:07.260
something to watch out for

01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:09.599
because the archetypes should be

01:04:09.599 --> 01:04:10.920
fantastic

01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:13.500
well they shouldn't be something that

01:04:13.500 --> 01:04:16.460
you believe in as some kind of something

01:04:16.460 --> 01:04:19.319
they're handed down so they don't feel

01:04:19.319 --> 01:04:22.200
fun and fantastic anymore because we

01:04:22.200 --> 01:04:24.240
don't make them ourselves

01:04:24.240 --> 01:04:26.880
we're handed them down like ah there are

01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:28.740
things and here I'm going to teach you

01:04:28.740 --> 01:04:32.339
these archetypes so this playing with

01:04:32.339 --> 01:04:34.079
fantasy at

01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:37.980
in a fantastic Way kids play pretend

01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:39.900
they know they're pretending they get

01:04:39.900 --> 01:04:41.400
really into it

01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:44.780
and there's some uh transcripts of kids

01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:48.240
that like they have five like

01:04:48.240 --> 01:04:50.099
sometimes their parents worry about them

01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:52.619
because they have imaginary

01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:55.740
friends and then they have

01:04:55.740 --> 01:04:58.380
but it's but the psychologists talk to

01:04:58.380 --> 01:05:00.020
them and and and

01:05:00.020 --> 01:05:03.299
they're completely aware of all the

01:05:03.299 --> 01:05:06.180
layers of fantasy that they're they're

01:05:06.180 --> 01:05:08.000
making and then you know

01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.040
then adults start having like pretend

01:05:11.040 --> 01:05:12.720
and they forget they're pretending and

01:05:12.720 --> 01:05:14.760
that gets it caught into a story and

01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:16.619
then a narrative and on and on and on

01:05:16.619 --> 01:05:19.859
and then they're inside their story

01:05:19.859 --> 01:05:22.319
versus enjoying something they're making

01:05:22.319 --> 01:05:25.140
up so yeah

01:05:25.140 --> 01:05:27.480
yeah this is great I didn't think we

01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.099
were going to talk about fantasy today

01:05:29.099 --> 01:05:30.660
but

01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:33.859
it's a nice way to end

01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:37.920
you know if you want if you read that

01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:41.640
last after before Socrates post I talked

01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:44.880
about it's all about it's I have some

01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:46.140
quotes from

01:05:46.140 --> 01:05:48.720
uh homolutions

01:05:48.720 --> 01:05:51.359
and it talks about how like

01:05:51.359 --> 01:05:54.240
even animals we play

01:05:54.240 --> 01:05:58.319
it talks about uh how

01:05:58.319 --> 01:06:01.319
even animals can't

01:06:01.319 --> 01:06:04.440
stand living in ordinary reality all the

01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:06.240
time

01:06:06.240 --> 01:06:08.940
and this is why they play and when they

01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:12.599
play like when the chimpanzees get they

01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:15.420
get all like up and they start to play

01:06:15.420 --> 01:06:19.740
the everyday Order of Things gets

01:06:19.740 --> 01:06:22.920
changed so a dominant chimp will let the

01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:26.039
young chimps throw poop at him and when

01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:28.920
dogs play a big dog will pretend it can

01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.500
get hurt by a little dog they handicap

01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:36.119
themselves in an early tribal uh tribal

01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:38.940
cultures that would have these rituals

01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:43.260
where like the you know the sexual

01:06:43.260 --> 01:06:46.980
taboos were all upended and stuff like

01:06:46.980 --> 01:06:51.480
this in his case is that from way early

01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:54.599
in our animal nature we have this need

01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:58.819
to exit everyday ordinary reality

01:06:58.819 --> 01:07:02.160
and so it's not something that just Hume

01:07:02.160 --> 01:07:05.400
you know Human animals humans do this

01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:08.520
this fantasizing this creating of a fat

01:07:08.520 --> 01:07:11.640
you know taking a Hiatus from everyday

01:07:11.640 --> 01:07:14.880
ordinary reality this seems to be we

01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:16.740
don't understand it much he doesn't talk

01:07:16.740 --> 01:07:21.660
about it very much but this seems to be

01:07:21.660 --> 01:07:24.119
something deep

01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:25.859
in

01:07:25.859 --> 01:07:33.020
our animal nature so yeah it's a whole

01:07:33.140 --> 01:07:36.059
maybe we'll should do a course next year

01:07:36.059 --> 01:07:39.480
on on this it's a whole other

01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:42.960
thing that can be explored it's I think

01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:47.359
untapped richness and misunderstood

01:07:48.539 --> 01:07:51.960
okay my friends that went really fast

01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:54.839
thank you so much for showing up I so

01:07:54.839 --> 01:07:57.720
enjoyed today and uh we get a little bit

01:07:57.720 --> 01:07:59.520
of break I gotta write some stuff for

01:07:59.520 --> 01:08:01.260
the next module

01:08:01.260 --> 01:08:04.740
um but maybe I'll see you on Sunday

01:08:04.740 --> 01:08:07.819
um have a good day